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JEALOUS DR. KONIG: SHE GRABBED ME BY THE B*LLS · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are in a verdict.
0:09
Speaker 1: Watch here at Crime Stories. That's right, the jealous doctor
0:13
Speaker 1: Gearhard Koenig actually puts up a defense to beating his
0:19
Speaker 1: wife's head in with a rock. Wait for it, she
0:25
Speaker 1: grabbed me by the balls. That's his defense. Yes, that's
0:31
Speaker 1: his defense. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
0:35
Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: The wife of a beloved doctor faces death at a
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Speaker 2: sheer cliff's edge on a romantic getaway planned by Hubby
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Speaker 2: attract On helping poly cooka.
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Speaker 3: The man trying to kill her, she's let all over
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Speaker 3: her face.
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Speaker 1: I've never heard that defense before, except maybe as a joke.
1:02
Speaker 1: A jealous doctor overwhelmed because his wife sent flirty texts,
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Speaker 1: and that was it. Nothing more was proven in court.
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Speaker 1: There he is there, they are guys. She's a nuclear engineer.
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Speaker 1: She does not need a man telling her what to do.
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Speaker 1: This guy, doctor Gearhart Conig, actually takes a stand and
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Speaker 1: tells a jury with a straight face. Basically, as I
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Speaker 1: was trying to push her off the cliffs, she grabbed
1:34
Speaker 1: me by the ball, so I bassed her head and
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Speaker 1: with a rock straight out to Susan Hendrix joining US
1:40
Speaker 1: investigative reporter Susan Hendricks, also author of the best seller
1:45
Speaker 1: Down the Hill My descend into the double murders in Delphi. Susan, Really,
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Speaker 1: I've tried a lot of cases. You've covered a lot
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Speaker 1: of cases. Have you ever heard she grabbed me by
1:55
Speaker 1: the balls as the defense? Because I have not.
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Speaker 4: This is new.
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Speaker 5: I have not and I have not seen someone nervy enough.
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Speaker 5: You could say Nancy to take the stand in his
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Speaker 5: own defense and describe this to jurors, thinking he's getting.
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Speaker 6: Away with it.
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Speaker 1: I want to go through ooh, this is excruciating. There
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Speaker 1: you see why, Ariel, she can barely walk. Look at
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Speaker 1: the blood gushing down her face. Her skull actually bashed
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Speaker 1: in by husband. Doctor Gearhart Koenig straight out two crime Stories.
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Speaker 1: Investigative reporter Sidney Sylvanni Sidney, wait, wait, wait, now, let
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Speaker 1: me understand. He's jealous over.
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Speaker 4: What what he called an emotional affair.
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Speaker 7: Ariel Koenig had some flirty text messages back and forth
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Speaker 7: with a coworker. They discussed music they enjoyed. They had
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Speaker 7: lengthy conversations back and forth over text, and for this
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Speaker 7: couple that was described as an emotional affair. They started
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Speaker 7: couple's therapy because of Ariel's behavior, and Koenig wanted complete
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Speaker 7: access to all of her communications at any time.
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Speaker 1: Well, he sounds like a complete wack of dooodle? Did
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Speaker 1: I understand this? Josh Colesruy joining US veteran criminal defense attorney,
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Speaker 1: former US attorney, founder of Colsry Law Offices, Let me
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Speaker 1: understand something. Since wn did talking about music equal an
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Speaker 1: emotional affair or an affair? Music? Really?
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Speaker 8: Ah?
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Speaker 1: What they talked about the symphony and she gets bassed
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Speaker 1: in the head with a rock.
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Speaker 9: Well, you're right about one thing, Nancy, and that is
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Speaker 9: this case will come down to credibility, the victim's credibility
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Speaker 9: versus the defendant's credibility. And yes, she had an emotional affair,
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Speaker 9: by her own admission, and the husband wanted to know
4:04
Speaker 9: what was going on. But those aren't the only things
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Speaker 9: that the jury's going to be looking at when determining
4:10
Speaker 9: whether or not she's credible. For example, you know, let's
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Speaker 9: look at what her statements were during and around the
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Speaker 9: time that this happened. You know, her statements became more severe,
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Speaker 9: more dramatic, and more incriminating. I mean, do you remember
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Speaker 9: that the medical testimony in this case said there were
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Speaker 9: only two to three impacts on her head from the
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Speaker 9: lava rock, but she said.
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Speaker 1: Two or three impact blows to the skull, how many
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Speaker 1: do you want? Calls rude.
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Speaker 9: Well, there there was no traumatic brain injury, there was
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Speaker 9: no concussion, and she still tried to convince her primary
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Speaker 9: care doctor to say that there was after this happened,
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Speaker 9: probably knowing that it didn't happen because she had already
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Speaker 9: been to the Queen's hospital where that was never described
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Speaker 9: in the diagnosis. Now, whenever you get hit in the head,
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Speaker 9: it looks horrible because you have so many blood vessels
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Speaker 9: where the skin is and the tissue gets torn and
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Speaker 9: it looks horrible, but the pictures look much much worse
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Speaker 9: than the actual injury. And let's not forget about the syringe.
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Speaker 9: You remember that where she said that he tried to
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Speaker 9: stab her with a clear barrel blue plunger hold. Still,
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Speaker 9: but you know what, there was no syringe found, no vile,
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Speaker 9: no cap, no bag, not by the hikers, not by
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Speaker 9: the police, not by the crime scene. It only exists
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Speaker 9: in her account. And then she says she bit and
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Speaker 9: grabbed his testicles. I mean there's no bitemarks, there's no
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Speaker 9: forensic evidence, there's no corroboration whatsoever. And don't forget her motive, right,
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Speaker 9: she moved one hundred and twenty three thousand dollars from
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Speaker 9: her account from the joint account into her account right
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Speaker 9: after this happened. Had there was a life insurance policy
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Speaker 9: on her husband, that she was going to have a
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Speaker 9: financial windfall uh if he was killed. So there is
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Speaker 9: an alternative story that the prosecution has been unable to prove.
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Speaker 4: The entire case calls rude.
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Speaker 1: Are you claiming that there's no corroboration to her story?
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Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying.
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Speaker 9: I'm saying that her story has inconsistencies and holes that
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Speaker 9: the defense has blown wide open.
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Speaker 4: Build a case on circumlage.
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Speaker 7: Love.
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Speaker 1: To me, it sounds like you're saying there's no corroboration.
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Speaker 1: I heard you out, so now I want you to
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Speaker 1: hear out the eye witness to attempted murder on Ariel
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Speaker 1: Koenig him.
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Speaker 3: I'm currently beating a tract on help of Poll Tuka
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Speaker 3: where there's a man trying to kill her. She let
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Speaker 3: all over her face. Where is his dad? Polly Tuka out?
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Speaker 10: Okay?
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Speaker 3: So look out on the pollypooka hike and he's he's
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Speaker 3: currently attacking her. Okay, where how far is the hike
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Speaker 3: guards the entrance wire? We're probably like five minutes into
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Speaker 3: the hike really quickly. Okay, what do you seeing? We
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Speaker 3: heard her streaming help help me, help me, and then
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Speaker 3: we saw that over her and then she crawled out
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Speaker 3: with over her face saying that I'm trying to kill her.
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Speaker 3: And did she know him?
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Speaker 1: I don't know. In fact, when two impartial observers hikers,
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Speaker 1: two female hikers come upon the attempted murder scene, they
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Speaker 1: take one look at doctor Gearhart Koenig and they run
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Speaker 1: because they were convinced he was going to try and
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Speaker 1: kill them as well. So all of your back and forth,
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Speaker 1: Josh Coles Rue jumping on the defense bandwagon, trying to
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Speaker 1: make Eryl Koenig the nuclear engineer, look bad.
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Speaker 10: I mean, the.
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Speaker 1: Photos speak for themselves. Could I see the still photo
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Speaker 1: of blood gushing down her face? That's what I want
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Speaker 1: to see. You see her in this shape, and you
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Speaker 1: see him running and hiding unharmed in the woods, hiding out,
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Speaker 1: trying to avoid police, until he finally sneaks out and
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Speaker 1: they nab him, but only after he confesses to his son.
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Speaker 1: I tried to kill Airy, but she got away. To
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Speaker 1: Susan Hendricks's joining me, investigative journalist, Susan help me out.
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Speaker 1: Did you hear Coles rude?
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Speaker 3: I did?
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Speaker 9: Not?
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Speaker 5: Only were their two eye witnesses Nancy, as he said
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Speaker 5: when he mentioned there wasn't that many directeds on the head,
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Speaker 5: her thumb was broken too. To me, that says you're
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Speaker 5: trying to prevent the rock from hitting your head, and
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Speaker 5: you're right. The son, who is the step son of
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Speaker 5: Ariel on the stand, wouldn't even say. Dad said, defend it.
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Speaker 5: There are eyewitnesses, his own son and her injuries as
9:03
Speaker 5: we saw.
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Speaker 1: Okay, whoa, whoa, Wait a minute, Cole's rude. Cole's rude,
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Speaker 1: his own blood biological son referred to his father as
9:15
Speaker 1: the defendant.
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Speaker 9: Ouch. So you know, let me address both the eyewitness
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Speaker 9: situation and the son. Okay, now with the son. You know,
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Speaker 9: one of the most misunderstood things about criminal law is
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Speaker 9: post incident conduct. And both victims and other people who
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Speaker 9: have experienced some type of trauma, they panic.
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Speaker 1: They let me understand what you're saying, Josh. Post incident
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Speaker 1: conduct you mean, like him hiding in the woods from
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Speaker 1: the police.
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Speaker 9: No, he just got into a fight with his wife
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Speaker 9: where he says that his life was in danger and
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Speaker 9: that he acted appropriately, and he said that when he
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Speaker 9: he testified that when he called his son, that his
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Speaker 9: son misheard what he said, that he was just repeating
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Speaker 9: what his wife had accused him of. And when the nurses, Okay,
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Speaker 9: the nurses only came up, and I believe them. Okay,
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Speaker 9: they only saw what happened from the middle to the end.
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Speaker 9: You know what they didn't see. They didn't see a syringe, right,
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Speaker 9: They didn't see any bag with medicine that he tried
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Speaker 9: to stabber with. And they didn't see the beginning on
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Speaker 9: how the fight started. And that's the most important part
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Speaker 9: of this case. How did this start. The only two
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Speaker 9: people that know how this started are the husband and wife.
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Speaker 9: So you have to look at the circumstantial evidence to
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Speaker 9: see who it corroborates and who it doesn't, and see
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Speaker 9: where the chips lie. And that's how the jury is
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Speaker 9: going to decide this case.
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Speaker 1: Coles Rude. Isn't it true that doctor Gerhard Koenig had
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Speaker 1: the idea to take Ariel up that dangerous trail. Isn't
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Speaker 1: that true?
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Speaker 4: He's trying to win back his marriage. He knows that
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Speaker 4: his wife.
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Speaker 1: Is it that true?
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Speaker 4: She's in love with another man, and he's trying to
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Speaker 4: win his wife.
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Speaker 1: You will answer because you don't like the answer. The
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Speaker 1: answer is this whole thing was orchestrated by him. Are
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Speaker 1: you married, Josh Coles Rude?
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Speaker 4: Are you yes, ma'am? Happily?
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Speaker 1: What did you do for your last anniversary? If anything, I.
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Speaker 9: Took my wife on a nice trip to Cancun, to
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Speaker 9: the beach and made her feel like a queen.
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Speaker 1: I'm sure you did. Did you suggest to her that
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Speaker 1: she walk up a treacherous trail that has not one,
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Speaker 1: not two, but multiple signs saying go away, too dangerous
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Speaker 1: for foot traffic, don't come in here. She didn't want
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Speaker 1: to go, but he insisted. Did you take a dangerous
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Speaker 1: hike with your wife on your anniversary? That is a yes.
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Speaker 9: No, Coles Rude, I did the same thing as the
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Speaker 9: doctor here, which is trying to win my wife's heart,
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Speaker 9: even though I already have it.
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Speaker 1: But I want to well, if you keep lying, you're
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Speaker 1: gonna have to work a lot harder at it. Did
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Speaker 1: you go on a hike up a dangerous trail. The
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Speaker 1: answer I know is no, be responsive.
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Speaker 9: Both the doctor and I wanted to do something romantic
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Speaker 9: with our wives, and we both attempted to do that.
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Speaker 1: And the fact that if I had you understand, I
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Speaker 1: would have you held a contempt right now, Sadly, all
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Speaker 1: I can do is cut your mind. Crime stories with
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace straight out to special guests joining us. You
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Speaker 1: know him well, John Buehler, who shot to fame proving
12:45
Speaker 1: the Scott Peterson double murdered case. Former detective from Modesto PD,
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Speaker 1: lead detective on the Peterson case. Why is it so
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Speaker 1: many people don't want to admit the truth When you
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Speaker 1: put a doctor in front of a jury, they very
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Speaker 1: often just fall in love. Because we're raised to trust doctors,
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Speaker 1: believe doctors look up to doctors, think they know more
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Speaker 1: than we do. That is not necessarily true. You know,
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Speaker 1: this is Gearhard Koenig's second marriage. The first marriage was
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Speaker 1: to a sex worker. I'm not judging. I'm not the
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Speaker 1: church lady. I don't care what he does in his
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Speaker 1: spare time, but I can't help but make the observation
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Speaker 1: he wants women on a transactional basis. He wants a
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Speaker 1: woman that he can force to behave a certain way.
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Speaker 1: I think this is way over the line for some
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Speaker 1: flirty text messages about the freaking symphony. That is not
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Speaker 1: an emotional affair. That's bs bueller.
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Speaker 4: Well, I got to go.
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Speaker 8: Along with you on that. I do like Josh's take,
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Speaker 8: and he you know, he makes a valiant attempt to
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Speaker 8: try and convince me. But I got to say that
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Speaker 8: the fact that the doctor went and hid in the woods,
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Speaker 8: that he resisted arrests, that he fled from the cops,
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Speaker 8: that he made the call to his son, his son,
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Speaker 8: was convincing on the stand. He had a motive with
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Speaker 8: receiving insurance policy or I think she had two hundred
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Speaker 8: fifty thousand that went to him if she went belly up.
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Speaker 8: Things like this that you scream circumstantial evidence. He takes
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Speaker 8: her on a hike, he researches up dangerous hiking areas,
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Speaker 8: and she's.
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Speaker 4: On the edge there.
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Speaker 8: I have a much harder time to believe that she
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Speaker 8: would bash him.
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Speaker 1: In the muller drink it from the fire hydrant too much,
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Speaker 1: too fast? Can you start over and speak very clearly,
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Speaker 1: enunciates slowly. I want Coles to hear every word. You
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Speaker 1: brought up a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars life
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Speaker 1: insurance policy. What policy is that, Bueler.
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Speaker 8: I think it was some something where he would get
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Speaker 8: two hundred and fifty thousand if she passed away. I
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Speaker 8: can't remember. It was an insurance policy or with some
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Speaker 8: death benefit or something like that. But he had motive
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Speaker 8: when it came to trying to get revenge. He was
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Speaker 8: angry apparently at this emotional affair. You throw in there
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Speaker 8: a little bit cash incentive and the fact that he
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Speaker 8: would be free again. It's dripping with pre planning and premeditation.
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Speaker 8: People say that, oh, you know she did this. Well,
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Speaker 8: I've never seen a victim run from the cops. I've
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Speaker 8: never seen a victim that has resisted to rest when
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Speaker 8: they're trying to find out what's going on. He easily
15:20
Speaker 8: could have approached the nurses and said no, she tried
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Speaker 8: to kill me. But he never did any of those things,
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Speaker 8: And that to me is pretty telling when it comes
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Speaker 8: to the fact that he was obviously involved in this
15:33
Speaker 8: up to his ear lobes, and he was trying to
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Speaker 8: get out of a marriage.
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Speaker 1: Buehler, see, you have a way cutting through all the bs,
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Speaker 1: just like you did in the Scott Peterson case. Lacey's
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Speaker 1: body is found at the San Francisco Bay. He was
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Speaker 1: fishing at the San Francisco Bay on the day she
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Speaker 1: goes missing. Motive affair case closed. It's just so simple
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Speaker 1: the way you explained it. Now you know what's interesting,
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Speaker 1: Josh Colsdrud, I hope you were listening just then to
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Speaker 1: John Buehler and guys. As much as I'm arguing with Colsrude,
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Speaker 1: he wins a lot of cases. He's a former US attorney,
16:17
Speaker 1: so he knows the way prosecutors think. Now he's a
16:21
Speaker 1: veteran criminal defense attorney. So when you were talking about
16:25
Speaker 1: life insurance policies as a motive for murder, you only
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Speaker 1: mentioned her one hundred and twenty five thousand dollar policy
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Speaker 1: on him. Did you forget the two hundred and fifty
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Speaker 1: thousand death benefit that he had for her?
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Speaker 9: Oopsie, Well, don't forget the I think it was one
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Speaker 9: point five million dollar policy that he took out on himself,
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Speaker 9: making his wife the beneficiary.
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Speaker 4: So his wife was going to receive a financial windfall.
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Speaker 9: And to mister Bueller's other comments about resisting arrest and
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Speaker 9: running well or not talking to the nurses.
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Speaker 4: The nurses had already made up their.
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Speaker 9: Mind about what had happened, right, and his wife was
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Speaker 9: already screaming that he was trying to kill her. So
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Speaker 9: he knew that he was a wanted man unjustly, and
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Speaker 9: just like the movie The Fugitive, he felt like the
17:19
Speaker 9: only way to preserve his life was to flee. He
17:22
Speaker 9: was in a panic mode. His wife had just tried
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Speaker 9: to kill him, and he protected him.
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Speaker 1: And now you're actually comparing this to The Fugitive.
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Speaker 9: Yes, oh, yes, this has definite parallels to that movie
17:37
Speaker 9: where Harrison plays that was a movie.
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Speaker 4: And was innocent. He was an innocent man.
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Speaker 1: Then why did he confess to his son?
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Speaker 4: He didn't.
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Speaker 9: He told the son on top of a mountain with
17:48
Speaker 9: a lot of wind what his wife had accused him of,
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Speaker 9: and his son misheard what he had said.
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Speaker 4: Period.
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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back over what actually really happened, What
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Speaker 1: really happened in the courtroom, not Josh Colesrude's defense version,
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Speaker 1: what he wished had happened in the courtroom. To Susan
18:10
Speaker 1: Hendricks joining US investigative journalist and best seller Susan what
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Speaker 1: really happened in the courtroom. And let me be clear,
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Speaker 1: Hendricks does not have a dog in the fight, no
18:21
Speaker 1: skin in the game, no money on the table. She's
18:24
Speaker 1: reporting what really happened. Okay, what did the son say?
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Speaker 5: I went in with an open mind, too, Nancy. The
18:32
Speaker 5: son said that his father face timed him and said,
18:36
Speaker 5: I tried to kill Ariel. To me, he spelled it out,
18:41
Speaker 5: confessed to his son, hangs up. His son calls Ariel's mom.
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Speaker 5: His stepmom's mom tells her, calls his biological mom tells her.
18:51
Speaker 5: Then the dad calls back and says, hey, wait a minute,
18:53
Speaker 5: digit tell anyone, And he said, yeah, I told my mom,
18:56
Speaker 5: and I told Ariel's mom. Then he tries to track
19:01
Speaker 5: and act like he didn't say it. I believe this
19:03
Speaker 5: was planned out. I believe that he was controlling, stalking,
19:06
Speaker 5: even and I agree with you, Nancy. I don't think
19:08
Speaker 5: it was an emotional affair. It was very bland having
19:12
Speaker 5: coffee this morning. I think he was controlling and infuriated
19:16
Speaker 5: that he wasn't the center of her world and therefore
19:18
Speaker 5: tried to kill it.
19:19
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting, and I'm gonna have to go
19:21
Speaker 1: to a shrink on this doctor Jeralen Utter joining us.
19:24
Speaker 1: But let me address the facts first. I had they
19:27
Speaker 1: call them office spouse. It was Al Dixon. We did
19:32
Speaker 1: everything together. When I wasn't with my investigator, Ernest. We
19:37
Speaker 1: went to the district attorney, the county workout room. Occasionally
19:42
Speaker 1: that was very rare. We would eat ninety nine cent
19:46
Speaker 1: soup because that's all we could afford in the jury cafeteria,
19:50
Speaker 1: where we were not supposed to be. He would help
19:52
Speaker 1: me if I was in a GM in court. That
19:56
Speaker 1: is not an emotional affair. I wouldn't even consider. I
20:01
Speaker 1: don't understand how talking to a friend, how is that
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Speaker 1: an emotional affair.
20:07
Speaker 6: I mean, I think the issue is is spot on
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Speaker 6: as far as control. Control is at the center of this. Also,
20:15
Speaker 6: it is a threat to his identity when you talk
20:19
Speaker 6: with doctors. And I can say this because I am one.
20:21
Speaker 6: You know, there's something called like a god complex, right
20:24
Speaker 6: like like we we are, we help people, We're not
20:27
Speaker 6: supposed to harm people. And I think what happened here
20:30
Speaker 6: is that his ego is very fragile. He felt very
20:33
Speaker 6: threatened by the work husband or work spouse. And and
20:35
Speaker 6: even if even if there was an emotional affair. You know,
20:39
Speaker 6: let's go along, let's go down that road. Does that
20:42
Speaker 6: justify what happened to this woman? Like she was bashed
20:45
Speaker 6: in the head.
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Speaker 1: With a brick.
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Speaker 6: I don't care if it was one time, two times,
20:49
Speaker 6: three times, or four times. And the other thing that
20:52
Speaker 6: that's really bothering me is that's interpersonal violence, that's domestic violence.
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Speaker 4: And yes, we don't know what.
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Speaker 6: She did to him, but we you know what we see,
21:01
Speaker 6: and it's clearly that he became unhinged, he was upset,
21:05
Speaker 6: he wasn't the center of her world, and he smashed
21:08
Speaker 6: her skull in essentially we have the actual footage of it.
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Speaker 6: So all of this, you know, trying to justify his behavior.
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Speaker 6: To me, it's a problem on so many scales because
21:19
Speaker 6: what he did was separate himself. You have the respected doctor,
21:23
Speaker 6: he can control that, right, I'm a respected doctor, I
21:25
Speaker 6: help people, I'm an ant caesiologist, I'm in surgery. And
21:28
Speaker 6: then you have this whole other splitting, this whole other
21:31
Speaker 6: person because he's not the center, because he's not in control,
21:34
Speaker 6: because he has a fragile ego. He then decides to
21:37
Speaker 6: do this, he bashes his wife's skulling So I just
21:39
Speaker 6: don't understand how we can sit here and try to
21:41
Speaker 6: try to justify that behavior at any level.
21:44
Speaker 1: And I want to be very clear, Doctor Jeralen Utter Guys,
21:48
Speaker 1: I didn't formally introduce to her. Doctor Utter is a
21:51
Speaker 1: clinical psychologist who specializes in psychological evaluations and risk assessments
21:57
Speaker 1: of people in the criminal justice system. Translation bad Guys,
22:03
Speaker 1: author of Mainlining Philly, author of after Shot, How Past
22:08
Speaker 1: Events Shake Up Your Life Today. Producer of Utter Nonsense,
22:12
Speaker 1: a documentary exploring addiction and mental illness. By the way,
22:18
Speaker 1: you can find her at Doctorgeralenutter dot com. Doctor Jerlyn,
22:22
Speaker 1: I want to be clear, revenge is not a defense
22:28
Speaker 1: under the law. If you are angry and in passion
22:33
Speaker 1: at the moment of the intact, you might get a
22:37
Speaker 1: voluntary manslaughter, but revenge about something that happened months and
22:43
Speaker 1: months ago, that is not a defense. You're completely correct.
22:57
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I want to clear up
23:05
Speaker 1: something to Susan Hendricks, investigative journalist and best selling author.
23:10
Speaker 1: The money the money because Josh Coles rude spun it out.
23:15
Speaker 1: He's like rumpel Stielskim. He takes some damp muldy Hay
23:18
Speaker 1: and spins it out into defense gold tell me who
23:22
Speaker 1: had a policy on who?
23:24
Speaker 5: So they had policies on each other. And you're right
23:27
Speaker 5: with the two hundred and twenty one hundred and twenty
23:29
Speaker 5: five thousand. He had more to gain financially. And by
23:33
Speaker 5: the way, he was a meticulous record keeper. And before
23:38
Speaker 5: the alleged attempted murder, he was looking at his divorce violence,
23:41
Speaker 5: how much money he had given the first wife, what
23:44
Speaker 5: he had to pay for. Was this infuriating him? Was
23:47
Speaker 5: this fueling the fire so to speak? I believe so
23:50
Speaker 5: that the money was at the root of this, used
23:53
Speaker 5: the emotional affair, if you will, to kind of hide
23:56
Speaker 5: his greed and.
23:57
Speaker 1: Control Susan Hendricks, how many times during all of our
24:02
Speaker 1: years at HLN did I text you about topics not
24:06
Speaker 1: related to court, about a million? How's your family? Blah
24:10
Speaker 1: blah blah, happy Eastern. We're not having an emotional affair,
24:13
Speaker 1: not that I know of, Are we?
24:16
Speaker 7: No?
24:16
Speaker 1: And you okay from home? I did not take that
24:22
Speaker 1: into account. I'm so glad you told me that, okay
24:25
Speaker 1: straight out to Todd Barr Doctor Todd Barr, forensic pathologist,
24:30
Speaker 1: Deputy coroner Franklin County Corners, Columbus, Ohio, featured in Thin
24:36
Speaker 1: Places Essays from in Between. Dr Barr, thank you for
24:40
Speaker 1: being with us. Could you explain to Josh Cole's rude
24:46
Speaker 1: the injury suffered by Ariel Koenikhi.
24:49
Speaker 10: Nancy, So what I read about her injuries sort of
24:55
Speaker 10: line up with what Coles said. Complex scalp lacerations do
25:02
Speaker 10: look a lot worse than they are. We all know
25:05
Speaker 10: that when you get a head injury, they bleed like stink. No,
25:11
Speaker 10: this is not This is not to justify what he
25:14
Speaker 10: did to her. It sounds suspicious to me all the
25:17
Speaker 10: way around. The circumstances do not line up. She didn't
25:22
Speaker 10: run away, he did run away. I mean there's certain
25:25
Speaker 10: things now. As far as bashing her skull in it
25:28
Speaker 10: is my understanding that she did not have any skull fractures.
25:32
Speaker 10: She was evaluated overnight and didn't have any evidence of
25:35
Speaker 10: a traumatic brain injury or a concussion. However, traumatic brain
25:40
Speaker 10: injuries don't always result in unconsciousness. You can have a
25:45
Speaker 10: traumatic brain injury that lingers, that comes on later, that
25:49
Speaker 10: has residual effect. You can see in the video of
25:53
Speaker 10: her being tended to by these two women She's clearly
25:57
Speaker 10: disoriented and not steady on her face, so something's wrong.
26:01
Speaker 10: She got her bell rung, and so you know, as
26:06
Speaker 10: far as the injuries go, it doesn't sound like they
26:09
Speaker 10: were as extensive as maybe what it looks like or
26:16
Speaker 10: appears to be on the video. However, that doesn't excuse
26:20
Speaker 10: what he did and the injuries that she suffered as
26:23
Speaker 10: a result of that.
26:24
Speaker 1: I have a question. The testimony is that Aeryl Koenig
26:28
Speaker 1: suffered severe lacerations, stayed every night in the hospital. She
26:32
Speaker 1: had stitches in her scalp. She still has scars on
26:36
Speaker 1: her head and her face. In court, she pulled back
26:41
Speaker 1: the bangs covering the left side of her forehead right
26:45
Speaker 1: here to reveal a patch of scalp that will never
26:50
Speaker 1: grow hair again because of these severe lacerations.
26:55
Speaker 4: Correct, Okay, that's true.
26:57
Speaker 1: You stated that you observed her being unsteady on her
27:01
Speaker 1: feet and disoriented. What would cause those symptoms.
27:05
Speaker 10: Well, being, having a rock blown against your head would
27:09
Speaker 10: definitely cause you to be a little unsteady on your feet,
27:12
Speaker 10: depending on how many times or how hard you know. Obviously, she,
27:18
Speaker 10: as was mentioned previously, she did suffer a broken thumb,
27:21
Speaker 10: which indicates to me that she was probably trying to
27:24
Speaker 10: block the blows to her head, and so she suffered
27:27
Speaker 10: additional injuries to her hand. So it sounds like it
27:31
Speaker 10: was a pretty traumatic event. And those kind of blows
27:36
Speaker 10: that would cause these kind of complex lacerations are different
27:40
Speaker 10: than just a straight laceration. A straight laceration is just
27:44
Speaker 10: like a cut on the surface of the skin. A
27:46
Speaker 10: complex laceration is one that the skin is splitting in
27:50
Speaker 10: multiple different directions and the only way to bring the
27:53
Speaker 10: skin back together is to stitch it up. And so
27:57
Speaker 10: she suffered from extensive skin barring that would prevent her
28:02
Speaker 10: from growing hair in that area, and that's that's a
28:05
Speaker 10: common problem in areas that grow hair that end up
28:09
Speaker 10: scarring down.
28:10
Speaker 1: Doctor Todd Barr, you stated that she Eryl Koenig seemed
28:16
Speaker 1: unsteady on her feet and was disoriented due to blows
28:21
Speaker 1: to the head. Is that correct?
28:24
Speaker 4: Did you state that yes? I did?
28:27
Speaker 1: Okay? How severe does a blow to the head have
28:30
Speaker 1: to be to make you dizzy, unsteady on your feet
28:35
Speaker 1: and disoriented? Simple laceration cut wouldn't do that. So what
28:43
Speaker 1: causes a human being to become unsteady and disoriented, can't
28:47
Speaker 1: stand up?
28:48
Speaker 10: So there's a thing called coup and contract coup injuries
28:52
Speaker 10: that occur inside the brain. I know this is probably
28:54
Speaker 10: getting a little deep into it, but when the.
28:58
Speaker 1: Brain, we deal with it all the time. I'm a
29:00
Speaker 1: child abuse cases coup contracup correct.
29:03
Speaker 10: And so just because she doesn't have a skull fracture
29:07
Speaker 10: doesn't mean that her brain wasn't rattled around inside this
29:11
Speaker 10: fixed object called the skull, and that can cause contusions
29:15
Speaker 10: on the brain, and that can cause disorientation, It can
29:19
Speaker 10: cause confusion, it can cause concussive effects. Those are the
29:24
Speaker 10: kind of things that we see in the coup contrac
29:27
Speaker 10: coup kind of injuries that she would have possibly had
29:32
Speaker 10: happened to her as a result of the blows.
29:34
Speaker 1: To the head. A coup contracoup injury is when the
29:40
Speaker 1: head is shaken and the brain actually hits the skull.
29:44
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yes? So is it your deduction that
29:49
Speaker 1: may have happened to.
29:50
Speaker 10: Her, that may have happened to her. Correct? She was
29:53
Speaker 10: clearly not steady on her feet. I mean, anybody that
29:56
Speaker 10: watches that video can see that.
29:58
Speaker 1: So the blows to her head, Josh Colesrude were severe
30:05
Speaker 1: enough to cause coup contrac coup injuries to the brain.
30:13
Speaker 1: You have stated correctly that her actual skull was not shattered,
30:19
Speaker 1: but her brain received an injury severe enough to make
30:24
Speaker 1: her disoriented and unable to walk on her feet. Did
30:29
Speaker 1: you hear what doctor Barr said when in comparison, doctor
30:36
Speaker 1: Gerhard Koenig runs from the scene, indicating guilt, hides in
30:41
Speaker 1: the woods and calls his son and says, I just
30:45
Speaker 1: tried to kill Ari, but she got away. He immediately
30:49
Speaker 1: repeats that conversation to not one, but two people.
30:52
Speaker 9: Well, just like a prosecutor, you didn't ask the doctor
30:58
Speaker 9: whether or not her injuries were consistent with what she
31:01
Speaker 9: said happened, which was eight to ten blows with the
31:05
Speaker 9: rock to the head.
31:07
Speaker 1: And if well, let's ask is that consistent, doctor Barr?
31:13
Speaker 1: Are our injuries consistent with eight to ten blows to
31:16
Speaker 1: the head?
31:17
Speaker 10: From what I read, it appeared that they noted two
31:22
Speaker 10: to three complex lacerations, which would be consistent with two
31:26
Speaker 10: to three blows to the head. Now, I don't know
31:28
Speaker 10: where the eight to ten blows comes from. One blow
31:32
Speaker 10: to the head would be sufficient to cause injury to
31:34
Speaker 10: the brain, two or three?
31:36
Speaker 1: Can there be a blow to the head without a laceration.
31:39
Speaker 10: Resulting sure shaking baby syndrome is a perfect example where
31:43
Speaker 10: a baby is not getting a blow to the head,
31:47
Speaker 10: but just the sheer weight of the head being tossed
31:51
Speaker 10: back and forth is enough to jostle the brain inside,
31:56
Speaker 10: creating injury.
31:57
Speaker 1: Again, we are in a verdict watch here at Crime
32:00
Speaker 1: Stories as we wait for a jury to hand down
32:03
Speaker 1: a verdict in the attempted murder trial of doctor Gearhart Koenig.
32:08
Speaker 1: But now we remember an American hero, Mark Fisher, Federal
32:15
Speaker 1: Bureau of Prisons, killed in the line of duty after
32:18
Speaker 1: twenty three years, leaving behind a wife turned widow, Tammy,
32:25
Speaker 1: and two children. American hero c oh Mark Fisher Nancy
32:32
Speaker 1: Grace signing off goodbye friend.