Latest / Pod Therapy / #406: SSRI Orgasmia, Drunken Shame, Polyamory Imposter Syndrome

Transcript

#406: SSRI Orgasmia, Drunken Shame, Polyamory Imposter Syndrome · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The following day, I had several of those students in
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: my next class, and they were just telling all their
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: peers about it, and everybody's like, oh, you know, we should
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: have gone lying son of a bitch, lying son of
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: a bitch. Jobin pulled over the shape. There it is,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: throwing more lies from tabulous Las Vegas.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Now this is pod therapy, real people, real problems, and
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: real therapist. You can submit your questions anonymously pod therapy.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: It's on net or emails some hot therapy guys at
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: gmail dot com.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Man now broadcasting from.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Technical Schoop Poart won five damn dollars from Whitney Studios.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: That's that's Whitney.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: I'm forget we're selling, is what I'm fucking talking about.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Thank you Technical Support.
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah that is awesome.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I forgot we're doing this and I crain it.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: It's on there, it's it. I'm I'm regretting it. Yeah.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, like I've seen the future I
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: have I know, I don't know what these are. I
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: have I've seen them come in. And the question I
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: guess is when multiple people submit with the same joke.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Oh no, okay, I think you just creadit all of
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: them well, but I yeah, I could get their time though,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: or do you just do multiple weeks of the same thing.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I think you can do whatever you want, honestly, I
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: think no, no, no, I think the spirit of this is
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: that you have to honor the joke as it was written,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: because that's how you create a bit. Then all of
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: a sudden, somebody's like people, guys, thirty of us are
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: going in on this, and we're running the table for
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: thirty weeks.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: This is buy up the other level that you guys
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: put this. Okay, twenty you think jack it up getting
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: the thumbs upside right.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: I know you think that.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: And the only way you think that is because you
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: haven't seen the ship that's coming.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: When you hear them.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: There's gonna be like one who's gonna trust me, You're
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: gonna fucking hate it.
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: We have no idea what the name is, our only
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: nick notes. We have not seen.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Anything like that. I don't want to know, idiot.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I don't want Jim or no, no, I want Jim,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: only person who knows all of it.
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: Oh no, okay.
• 2:20
  Speaker 6: I I think you can do whatever you want you
• 2:24
  Speaker 6: want to if you want to group something together and say,
• 2:26
  Speaker 6: like the following people wrote this one.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: I think you can do that. I think it's more
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: fun to just do all of Also, people can also
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: just submit a title of the studio anonymously. I mean
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: they could buy it and then not themselves. They're all anonymous. Okay,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: As it turns out.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I didn't, I know, I know who's submitting them,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: because I can go back and see, I can check
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: and see what happened on the Patreon. Twenty dollars just
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: came in from so and so got it, I know what? Yeah, Okay,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: but if we get like ten of them, then I'm
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: not gonna know who did.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The fear I'm seeing in your face right now,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: this is very persive. The only idea you told.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Me and I did it keeps us coming. This is
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: gonna be a lot of regret in your eyes right now.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: We need to bring up the press is because you
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: only get one a week. You get one ever, no,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: I mean like you us, yes, you okay, you can
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: only we can only name one a week.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: There's only one studio each week.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, well okay, so I'm a little scared. Seeing
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: the fear in Nick's eyes is really mess is making
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: me Your.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Bomb could land in anybody's laugh. I don't know that
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I want this, this smoke. I'm scared. Now bring the
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: right Petreon dot com slash therapy. You can name the
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: studio until we change our minds, which maybe it's very soon.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: You should get that purchase in now, because we will
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: be honor bound to continue it. I'm gonna tell you
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: right now, you're checking out me and I are going
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: to keep on fighting for this.
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: To stay here.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: You might get over looking at Nick and Jim.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: It doesn't I'm the anxious bunny in this bunch, and
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: to see the fear in Nick's eyes like, oh ship,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: he's scared to read these words.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: This is not going to be good.
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: I love it.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, well patroon dot com slash therapy. Also, as you
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: are hearing this, this week, I've released the seventh part
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: in my AI series. This one's about the rise and
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: fall of the first AI Therapist, So.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: I may have to listen to this. Okay, it's only
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: seven hours, this specific episode, but just it feels like,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: just within the last two weeks, AI has gone fucking crazy.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: The ship that is being sent to me, and that's
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: not so you sent me one, Yeah, and I looked
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: at it, and ever since I looked at it. Now
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: I'm just getting overrun with AI videos of Stephen Hawkings.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, somebody even.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Hawking at the X Games, like doing that pipe. Yeah, yeah,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: a whole bunch of Bob Ross ship.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob Ross. I sent one to.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Jacob debscribed that one, described that one to everyone. No,
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: But like it's so it's gotten so real, you know
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: it has. It has gotten quickly.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: So like this this next episode that I've already recorded,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: it's gonna air on Monday. So people when they're hearing this,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: it's already aired this week and go patroon dot com
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: slash therapy pick it up. If you're in the five
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: dollars and hired to hears. You get it every week
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: whenever we release stuff. So we're going into this this
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: new reality of how real this is now and like
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: the delusional things that this is causing in well meaning,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: normal humans, and it is fascinating. Like for me, I
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: went through my first AI emotional experience this past week.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: I sent all of you a song that I had
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: I had found. It was Gangster's Paradise rewritten into a
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: blues song and performed entirely by Ai Yeah Soul, okay
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: and uh and and I listened to this, and dude,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I was like shaken when I listened to this because
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: it was so real. It was just for whatever reason,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: it was like that the singer's voice sounds like this
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: middle aged African American man. It's got so much pain
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: in it, and it's it's the lyrics of Gangster's Paradise
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: and it's already done.
• 6:30
  Speaker 6: But I don't understand why you're confused about this. This
• 6:32
  Speaker 6: is always your response to Coolio music.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, which historically you're correct. I've never seen
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: you not weep hearing a Coolio song. Yeah yeah yeah,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: which is why I got the tattoo, you know, and
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: and so, but.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I think that's why. It's just chuck, you know, like
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: it really shook me up. But it's dreads And I've
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: listened to this thing so many times. I've sent it
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: to everybody I know, like, listen to this, but like
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: it really shook me. And then I found myself having
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: this weird reaction afterward, because here I was like really
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: emotionally touched by this art and then being like my god,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: somebody just typed a prompt into this machine, and it's
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: spit out this soulful, like deep voice that I felt
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: carried meaning, and I went through this weird like and
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I didn't have words for the experience I was feeling,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: but it was like this. It's like whenever you feel
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: like you're falling in love with somebody and then all
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: of a sudden you realize they're an actress, you know.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: It's it's like, it's just like it's the Truman Show moments.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know how to describe that emotion of like, oh,
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  Speaker 1: I think this is real. I'm falling into this, I'm
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  Speaker 1: really touched, I'm really vulnerable, and then to discover it's
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  Speaker 1: a facade, and like actually ended up going to AI
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: and being like, what fucking is there a word to
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  Speaker 1: describe this? An inventive off but no, like just to
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: agree with you these videos and stuff and even the music.
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  Speaker 1: Now it's it's so real that it's affecting me emotionally,
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  Speaker 1: and then I'm having to have this weird backlash of
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: like that's not real. Don't let it touch your heart
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: because it's not a real thing.
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  Speaker 2: So I saw I came across an Instagram channel of
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: a guy that breaks down AI videos and so I
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: I saw one and then he stops and he's like, okay,
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  Speaker 2: this is AI.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Here's how you know. Yeah, but like I missed. The
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: kids know immediately, but we're like, oh my.
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: God, no, I need to hear this too.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Middle aged I had to watch this video five or
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: six times and I would hear what he would say
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: that they're like, I didn't see that, and I had
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: to go back and watch it again. There's one of
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: this guy walking through his kitchen with this huge fucking
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: dog and this dog.
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  Speaker 1: Is like six foot tall.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, and it looks like a real dog, real
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: man everything.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, it looked.
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  Speaker 1: I knew it wasn't I knew it couldn't be because
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: dogs aren't that.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: But because that's part of the Internet, is like this
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: bizarre thing that's a really big dog. The ship that
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: tells you, the ship that tells you, well, here's the
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: thing that's.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Going to happen.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Put your credit card number in when you see a dog.
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  Speaker 2: Doesn't remember If it was slightly believable for me, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: that means every person in my family who's older than me,
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: totally seventy that's scary ship, a scary ship because they
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: can do that for anything, right, right, right, I mean
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: why is scary?
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Why? Because for anybody? Yeah, it's just.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Do if it looks like the president was assassinated or something,
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: the next presidential candidate is going to be. All they
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: have to do is put out a video of this
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: guy pissing on it, right like child.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: They're just like, oh, this is the you know, this
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: is why we can't vote for this. And it's like,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: oh that by the time that the correction catches up
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: to the lie, yeah, which is always what is that?
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: What is that old saying?
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: It's the the effort to correct something is infinitely it
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: takes infinitely more times than dude, more than the lie.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: Then yeah, yeah, then the correction takes whatever more than
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: the lie. So anyway, like there's this one that the
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: dog walking through and he's like, Okay, here's how you
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: know it's fake because the bucket in the background changes.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Oh gocket, I didn't even look at the fucking bucket.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: And you look at it and yes, there's a bucket,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: and then it goes down the frame and then it
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: comes back and now it's.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: A flower pot. Oh Jesus.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: But It's like I wasn't looking at you always have
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: to look at the background. Ye jeez, the background is
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: where all the information is.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: So but now that they're creating art this way, like
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: there's an actress now that's like a fully AI autreist,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: and I guess SAG is like up in arms about
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: it because they can basically just produce anything with this person.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: And well, but that was interesting because at first I
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: was like, oh my god, that's so like fucked up.
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: But then it's like, we.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: Have animation, right, yeah, yeah, I don't know. I guess
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: you know it's animated.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like if there came out with an animated Joe Biden,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: I don't think like.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, he's the Simpsons version of Joe Biden.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: This is not real look at it. That's why this
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: is why you But if.
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: You know their AI, like what is the difference?
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Right? This doesn't shock you at all.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: This doesn't mess with you as an artist or like,
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: this doesn't surprise entertainment at all. This is this is
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: what happens every single time there's a new piece of technology.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: What about the idea of like a like creating art
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: that that touches you. But then it turns out I
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: don't know, like like for me, jazz or something like
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: that is is bespoke to a culture like these. Part
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: of what makes it powerful is understanding the human story
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: that created the genre and this person who's performing it.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: This is why you can't have like anybody perform that
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: because they don't have like the creative license to do it.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Like there's there's some genres that there's an earned you know,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: right to participate in this and do it well street cred. Yeah,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: I mean something right, Like there's a certain there's art,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: there's art forms that is that that's true, okay, and
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: then when AI can just stamp it out. That's what
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: hit me about Gangster's Paradise is this is like fuck dude, Like.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: But that's just it is nothing was actually made. Like
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: you're not describing a new thing. You're describing a different
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: look at an existing thing.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, which.
• 12:24
  Speaker 6: Like I can already take like I can already take
• 12:28
  Speaker 6: a piece of music like like Gangster's Paradise, right and
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: like pitch shift things and slow things down and add
• 12:33
  Speaker 6: music and take music away and do all these like.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Right, you can adapt it.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so and like that doesn't make me a
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: creative artist, Okay, just because I can do that like that,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: that isn't what makes me a creative artist.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: That's just a piece of technical know how. Right.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: I can do this, and I understand the music structure,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: and so I can do things within that structure to
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: make it work.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: So I mean that's kind of what the computer is
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: doing essentially. And I still I still have a real
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: problem with calling it AI, okay, because it doesn't seem
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: like anything is being created. It seem I mean, you
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: have like the large what's it called, the large Language Model,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: and all those kinds of types, all those things. It
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: all seems like at some level it is plagiarism to me, right,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: And I don't even mean that as like a damning thing.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: It's just what it seems like, it's just imitating.
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and like in the same way that Google is, right, Yeah,
• 13:35
  Speaker 6: you know, it's not creating information, it is presenting information, right,
• 13:39
  Speaker 6: and so that that's it always kind of feels the
• 13:41
  Speaker 6: same to me. The AI actress is a weird one.
• 13:45
  Speaker 6: I don't understand how that's a problem. I don't understand
• 13:50
  Speaker 6: what the what the issue is.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Well, I think Whitney's point about animation. That's a that's
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: a very persuisive point to me. And I guess the
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: actress thing doesn't freak me out yet because I just
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: don't perceive that person as real. The music touched me
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: and then to feel like that was just you know,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know, just the command. It just felt weird.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Here's here's my prediction for the future.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I see probably within every Yeah, within the next five years,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: it's gonna start. There's gonna be music that is completely created.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: So we're to Jacob's point where you're taking a song
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: that already exists in manipula, Well.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: That does exist. Yeah, there's a channels on Spotify now,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: yes originals, Oh okay, cool. I just happen to be
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: listening to a cover. But that's a thing now.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of Spotify is just a I would
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: guess it's probably gonna as a genre. It's gonna take
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: off probably at an ed M first. Yeah, that seems
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: to be the Yeah, it'll kind of take off within
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: that world.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Might b roll music. Yeah, you know, like was it
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: royalty free, which is really useful. It's gonna we should
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: use it to make our theme.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: All those types of things are gonnet swamped with it.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: But even that, you're taking kind of known music theories
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: and just executing them.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: So, like, if you want to make a song sound sad,
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: you go like, oh, well, it's probably gonna be about
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: so many beats per minute, or it's gonna be this
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: range beats permitted. It's going to be in one of
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: these keys. It might be in a in a you know,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I have a bit of a minor key here. It
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: might have you know, this style of bridge to it.
• 15:21
  Speaker 6: And I mean so like the computer can just kind of,
• 15:25
  Speaker 6: I don't know, it could kind of just be analytical
• 15:28
  Speaker 6: about it. And you're like, I can build us like
• 15:30
  Speaker 6: a horror song, right, Like I've got all these little
• 15:32
  Speaker 6: these little music things here.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like oh yeah, yeah, you just have a
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: key that sounds like it's a little scarier. Yeah.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: So they already response. So your prophecy has been fulfilled. Nick, Congratulations,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: man call him like you're saying the fact that he
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: doesn't know that it makes the call though. Yeah, I
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: think you still get credit. I like that. I'll give
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: you credit for those I'll take it. AI here a
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: stake patreon dot com, slash therapy. You can hear me
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: tell the story of the creation and destruction of the
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: first AI therapist. This is really really crazy news, so
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: check it out patreon dot com slash therapy. We do
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: a deep dive into it. But we've got some great
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: questions for today's show, and we're leading off the order
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: today with antidepressants and sexual dysfunction. Hey guys and PW
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: PW Whitney. I'm currently taking laxipro for depression and found
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the longer I've been on it, the more trouble I
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: have achieving orgasm, the desire and all other urges remain.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: But at the risk of offering too much information, I
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: get right to the edge and just don't tip over it.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I understand that many SSRIs have some sexual side effects,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: and I already have an appointment with my doctor to
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: discuss it. I've done a bit of my own research
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: to at least understand some of the causes and differences,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: and found that some alternatives referred to as atypical antidepressants
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: like well buttrin, trasidoon, etc. Often as less sexual side effects.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Then SSRIs, could you please give some explanation of the
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: difference between these two types of medicine if they have
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: comparable effects on depression, if there's a danger in transitioning
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: from one to the other, et cetera, et cetera. As mentioned,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: I will be discussing all of this with my doctor
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: as well, But do value your thoughts on this as well,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: since I don't understand half of what I read when
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: I do deep dives and seek details and the effects
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: of medications. Thanks all much, Love tests the forever tattooed scoop.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Even if you ever say something I don't like that
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: is going to.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: Happen, say something, Jim real, Yeah, I'm sure this is
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: your chance.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna set us up to succeed on this. Friends,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Because none of us are psychiatrists, we can speculate a
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: little bit on this. I don't want us to, you know,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: that's that's not the most value we're going to offer.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: But I think we can all speak to having people
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: that have experienced that that you know, sexual side effects,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: what are the side effects of medications? And you know,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: I think that's important to kind of just discuss in
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: the abstract.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was kind of the direction I felt most
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: comfortable because I'm like, I don't really know the full
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: differences between the technical differences between all those medications.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: I got you. Yeah, Yeah, Jacob's got that. I got
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I got the solution here, guys.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I also don't know all the technical differences
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: between these medications.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: But I can just help you out. It is an
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: all natural remedy. Uh.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: You don't have to guess it with your doctor. All
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: you do is you just keep on doing exactly what
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: you're doing right now. And you get some white rhino
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: horn that ship out every day. You just take a
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: little snore to that. Just just take a quick little snort,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: ground up white rhino horn. Get a lot of it. Yeah,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: because we are we are running out of resource.
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but don't skip on the rhino horn. That's what
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: I say at every party.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: It will make you just spray like a fire hose.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: It will.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: I can't really explain what will happen, right, but put
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: down a tarp, yeah, just for.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: The love of God, right, yeah, shower of tarp. Yeah.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: And and and shower after, not before, always after. Don't
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: do it in an area where food has grown.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: For assumption.
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: Here, I was just gonna suggest turning up or.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Kick it number.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: It's always a higher level. It's a leaf blower mode. Well,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: I hope that helps it. When we go back, we'll see. No.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: I have heard this from clients as a side effect.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: It can be very frustrating. And so I hear you
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: when you're like, hey, what's the deal. Maybe this medication
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: is helping with my depression, helping with suicidal thoughts, things
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: like that, But there's this side effect over here. So
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: vers the came to mind was that any of these
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: medications are going to have some side effect, like nine
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: times out of ten it probably will.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: So today a side effect was listed as eye problems.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, was this for a g LP one just eye problem?
• 20:16
  Speaker 7: No?
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: This was for like an atne medication. Oh wow, I
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: was like eye.
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: Problems, my eye problem.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: That couldn't mean a lot anything from like dry eye
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: to your eyeballs falling out blind. Now I would if
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: both of those things as eye problems, blindness permanent blindness.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Permanent may cause piracy.
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah, exact.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Medication I can't come may cause your eyes to explode.
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: The pirate that can't come. I feel like that's the
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: whole care the.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Search for booty. Just hold still, look in me eye.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: You know why I call it my peg leg hook.
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: This is great, My god.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: The pirate who can't orgasm? Can we pitch that to
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Paul for the next Hollywood Squares.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: I'm you were saying, Oh my gosh, I am bank
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: to it. So, yeah, there's gonna be some side effects. Obviously,
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: you said you're going to your doctor. Uh. My experience
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: working with clients who have side effects that they're like, well,
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: maybe it's okay that I have this one thing going on,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: like it's it's helped with these other mental health issues,
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: so maybe it's just fine, And I always tell them
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: talk to your doctor. There's probably something else you can
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: try that will have either a more manageable side effect
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: or less of a side effect than what you're going
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: through now, especially if it's something as like if this
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: is important to you, which I'm guessing it is since
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: you're writing in then that's important enough to bring up
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: to your doctor and say, hey, I don't like the
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: side effects or something else.
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: We can try.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: The other thing I was going to say very quickly
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: is something that I've done with clients is making sure
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: when they're going through medication adjustments, if you could keep
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: like a little in your notes app or if you're
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: pin the paper type of gout, like writing down which
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: medications you had, what types of side effects for because
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: sometimes it can get a little convoluted. You have to
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: be on these medications for like two months at a time,
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: and maybe like next year. You know you're willing to
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: try something you tried before, but you couldn't remember right
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: what was really bothering me on that one medication. So
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: keeping just brief It doesn't have to be super detailed,
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: but some brief notes on like what you are trying
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: if you try different medications. I've found that to be
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: really helpful.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: So that's really good.
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: Just a random suggestion.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Well, and you know, I'm really glad we're talking about this.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Like in the history of the show, I think that
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: we are generally trying to signal to folks like, hey,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: if you're struggling, don't get preocationied with a lot of
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: the talk about side effects, because I'd much rather you
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: be so non depressed that you feel like fucking but
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: you know you can't quite finish, Like Okay, a really
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Staustian bargain here, Like I need these pills that I
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: want to have sex with people and enjoy my life,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: but then I can't fucking climax, Like, I get that.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: It sounds like a trade off. This is a side
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: effect of SSRIs. We do see it. Sometimes it's delayed ejaculation,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: and some people are delayed climax. Some people it's nargasmia,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: the inability to actually climax. It is I don't want
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: to say it's extremely common, but it's it's in the
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: bucket of things we might see. Usually it's dose related.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: So I'd say eighty percent of the time whenever somebody
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: has this, when they check back in with the psychiatrists
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: and they tell them this is what I'm experiencing, the
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: first move I usually see from our psychiatrist's colleagues is
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: they'll just dial down the dosation. Sure, and that usually
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: solves it. And they're like, great, let's see if we
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: can dial it down. If your depression comes roaring back,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: then and we will play another move here. But usually
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: they'll just say, I'm just gonna cut a few milligrams
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: off this thing, and I'll bet you that between therapy
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: and general maintenance and you know the general residual SSRI
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: that's in you, I'll bet you'll be okay for a while.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: And so usually that's the solution to it, so it's
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: a very solvable thing. Sometimes they'll add another medication like
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: bupropion because that actually like it's an augmentor in some cases,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: so if you get really high on dosage with the SSRIs,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: you start to get to this place where you get
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: diminishing returns and so there's not as much therapeutic value
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: for every milligram you're adding, and that's usually what we'll
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: throw in a kicker like bupropion. And the other side
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: effect of bupropeon when added to the SSRI is that
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: it often removes that sexual inhibition or I guess not
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: inhibition but sexual issue, right, dysfunctional issue. So for a
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: lot of people, that's the move that the doctor will
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: do if they don't just remove a few milligrams or
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: like you mentioned tests moving over to an atypical so
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: that that's absolutely a move too. And you'll see that
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, Trazdon's probably not like because that tends to
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: be more for like nightmares and sleep, but I defer
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: to your doctor that well, bututrian's probably the move, or
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: they might go to an s NRI. There's a few
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: different moves that they can do here that maintain the
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: antidepressant power, but are much less likely to create any
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: kind of sexual side effects. So those are all possibilities.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: And you know, so I don't want questions like this
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: to discourage people, because, like we said, sometimes people will
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: get so notable into the side effects of the stuff
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: that they won't do the right thing. They won't address
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: mental illness when it presents because they're scared. Oh, I've
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: heard some people gain weight on an SSRI, or I've
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: heard some people don't don't have good sex on an SSRI,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: and that's important to me. I need to make sure
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: I have a good sex life. And it's like you
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: need to make sure that you don't want to fucking
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: kill yourself too. Like let's start there and like, let's
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: make sure that we get an optimal version of you,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: and then we can fiddle with the recipe to get
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: it right. If there are side effects, they can almost
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: always be overcome or navigated around. Podcast wise or source
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: of information wise, I want to take a second to
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: plug another show. Doctor David Pooter has the Psychiatry and
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Psychotherapy podcast.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: It's really really good. Yeah, that is his name sounds like,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: sounds great. He's a great guy. Yeah, what's his name, Uh,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: doctor David Pooter.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, pu d e R. But about his name,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Jim Vine. But yeah, great, great show and the archives
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: of that. He has a bunch of psychiatry resident students
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: that actually help him design the research for his show,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: and he wrote several that are really big deep dives
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: into am I saying a word wrong? Is? I don't
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: think so, I don't know what I'm doing anymore. But
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: they have a bunch of deep dives into SSRIs and
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: and so there's several that he goes over the side
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: effects and uh, the the moves that they can do
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: to counteract those side effects and just kind of explains
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: you kind of seem to be asking a deeper question
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: of like almost like a why and like the serotonin
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: dampening of neurons and responsiveness and stuff like that that
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: I know he has episodes. I have heard him go
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: over episodes where he explains that. So I would recommend
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: the Psychiatry and Psychotherapy podcast. It's it's a really good
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: resource to just subscribe to you anyway, But if you
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: go into their archive, they have episodes on serotonin and
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: SSRIs and side effects and stuff. So that could be good.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: We should clarify because her letter talks about well Buttrin
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: and you, Jim, we're talking about appropriate right, Well, Buttrin
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: is the brand name.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so then they'll they'll ask that as a yeah,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: just want to clarify. No good catch. Jim doesn't know
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: what any of the words he said.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, I'm just on autopilot right now.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: So anyway, that that's all I've got. But don't forget
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: the tarp.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's the most important thing you should take
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: away from this.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Even when you think you don't need a tarp, it's
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: just good to have a tarp.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: You never know that you put down a tarp. No
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: one ever says I wish it. I don't think it's
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: the same rules as guns. The only thing that can
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: stop a bad guy with a tarp and sex is
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: a good guy with and rhino horn. Yeah, you know,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: it's one of those things that's used for evil and good.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: I think we can all admit that. You know, we
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: can be mature, we can we can talk about this.
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: We are very mature.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, white rhino horn can be used for evil guys.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: You won't hear that on Doctor Pruter's.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Show, you will not. I've also contacted him in the
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: past and wanted to do it. I bet he's just
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: waiting to He's just dying to show minimally back, and
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I was not upset at all. I was like, hey, man,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: thanks for taking one second to listen to the show
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: long enough to realize you should not be on this show.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: This is why we can't have guests.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think it'd be a delight. I'm sure
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: it would be. We would all learn a lot. But anyway,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: any notes on this one, Nick.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: No, that's it.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: You guys covered it very well. As far as uh,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: switching from one to another, I haven't heard of anything
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: as being dangerous. Now, if going from an SSRIR to
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: an antidepressant.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they'll we'll have an trading schedule and so your
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: doctor will tell you how they want you to go
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: about this, and it usually involves decreasing milligrams of A,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: will increase milligrams of B and that way. Just you
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: don't experience any kind of like gear shift in your
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: brain as you're switching from one of the other. And
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: of course, don't change your medicine without talking to your doctor.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: For always talk to your doctor, and as always, with
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: a little razor blade. That's right. As cool as it looks,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: it does look cool. Don't do it.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: Sitting there with a cheese grater. You know, I bet
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: I can get a milligram off of this.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean we all have scales, you know, we
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: all have very very highly sensitive scales most people, and
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: very little baggiest little baggies of those little twisty tie
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: things too. Anyway, thank you for this question, Good luck
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: with this, and we hope to hear that your orgasms
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: come roaring back.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Don't forget about a Yeah, that's a good follow up email.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, oh yeah. We want to know.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: We want to hear that this is tests. I mean,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: the problem is test is going to tell us the discord.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to be official. I just want this
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: to be something that we all get to note together.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and when we
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: come back, we're going to talk about shame over drunken behavior.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Her you're listening to pod therapy. Good job. That will
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: not come back to by here today.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by Robert Robert Brownie,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Jinger Min's Kayla Lansberry, Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathway,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Dan Martin, lib Hey, Yo, Andrew Langmead, Chad meg and
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Incan the Prince. Would you like to sponsor the show?
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Become a therap producer patron dot com Slave therapy. All right,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: we're gonna have to buzz in.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: You say we never do. Let's just do buzzes. Yeah,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: the listener has no fucking clue the buzz but nickname
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: do whatever. Actually, I don't know. This is an honesty policy.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Here we go. Uh, what we've got is we have ship.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: You got there?
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: We have ship?
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: All right?
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Bad movie descriptions. Oh the I give you the description,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: and you've got to guess the movie.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be that iron fucking eagle. Here we go.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: It's a whole iron.
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: Eagle's gonna it's gonna be one of the.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Speakers, any iron eagle. I got it, all right. A
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: group spends nine hours returning jewelry. Uh buzz yes, Lord
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: of the Rings, Yes, O God, Sam, it's because those
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: are movies.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: I was almost going to guess Ocean's eleven, Like is
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: there one where the putting it back?
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: But nine hours?
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: That good one.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Jesus drops up rich guy A dresses like an animal
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: and beats up a mentally ill clown.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Rich guy dresses like animal mentally animal huh and beats
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: up a mentally ill fucking it's probably gonna okay, So
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: like is it it? Oh?
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: I thought was it? But but mentally ill?
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Like disturbed? Maybe like a violent.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: The new one?
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Fuck?
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: Is it like Batman or one of the Batmans?
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: Batman? Dark Knight, Dark Knight scream way too long?
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: I came on us. Damn good job, Whitney. I'm glad
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: we got there. Talking frog convinces son to kill his dad.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're all immediately going to kermit, right.
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: It's not the princess.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Definitely not a real frog. Okay, that's a poor description.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: Talking Okay, So someone convinces their son.
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: Wait say it again the last time son?
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Talking frog convinces son to kill his dad. Convinces a song.
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: Son not his son, but not the frog son hamlet wreck.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Oh good guys, but no, all right, all right, yeah,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: talking they're killing and Trek. There's so many Trek movies.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: I'm positive I haven't seen all of them. Fuck, dude,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, do you have more hints that can
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I can make more hints, all right, we'll take them.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: It was part of a trilogy talking O Buzz Star Wars.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, Yoda Yoda, Luke to kill his dad never
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: very much red hair. Yeah yeah, it's a yoga.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: But I believe, and I will take my point. And
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: now it's even.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: Okay, here we.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Are, let's go.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Let's go one more tiebreaker for a billionaire takes a
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: nap and messes up New York. Ah, a billionaire takes
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: a nap, messes up New York.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Wow, billionaire. I mean I don't watch theaper Man movies.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: I feel like maybe that's relevant. Takes a nap.
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna buzz.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: I don't think I'm right, but the who's the iron
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: Man guy?
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, Robert Downey Jr.
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: Robert Downey Jr.
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: One of those persons.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Are okay, Robert Downey Junior.
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: I mean yeah, that's his name right where.
• 34:21
  Speaker 7: He is.
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: A lot of movies iron Man, iron Man, Sure, iron Man.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: I don't want to it.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: No, okay, that's not only guess billionaire billionairess nap must
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: fall asleep, and.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Like I'll give you a hand. The writer and director
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: was Christopher Nolan.
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: This isn't another darkness buzz?
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: What the fuck is that movie called inception? Yes? What?
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: Okay?
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: I don't come on? What this game? I'm angry, I'm hurt.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: Jacob loves it, Jacob w Okay, this is hard, Jesus,
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: It's as hard as a sex frustrated pirate.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Hard, so hard, scurvy.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Shames from my drunken behavior.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Scurvy when he shouts when finished, so good, I have
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: an illness.
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: No, this hasn't been created already.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: On like ice cream see sex starve pirate? All right,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: shame for my drunken behavior from anonymous. Hey, friends, pronouns
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: are he and him. Hello all, I'm writing to you
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: four Beautiful Souls as an official therapod now since this
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: is my second time writing in thank you, and I
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: figured I need to support you all because you support
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: me every week with your insight and laughs. So I've
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: got a doozy at least for me, I've never carried
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: such shame before. I'll set the scene. I'm in my
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: early thirties, married with two kids, a one and two
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: year old. My wife and I work opposite schedules. When
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: I come home, she leaves. It's incredibly tiring. Day in
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: and day out, but we recognize how lucky we are
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: to save on childcare. It's my wife's thirtieth birthday in
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: a few days, and I've planned the whole weekend for her.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: For my thirtieth birthday, she planned a surprise party for
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: me and man it was so impactful that I wanted
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: to give back for hers. The night of the shame,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: we are hosting her friends before we all head out
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: to a concert. This means that when I leave work,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: I run to the grocery store, liquor store, clean the
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: house frantically for the next hour and a half, set
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: the scene. When friends do arrive, I play bartender and DJ,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: just really trying to host and welcome all in while
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: taking care of the kiddos for half of the party.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: I love taking care of others. I unfortunately did not
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: take care of myself. As I'm making drinks and taking
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: shots with others which I never take shots, I forget
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: to eat the whole night and hours before people arrived.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Fast forward, we arrive at the concert, but by the
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: time we make it inside, our aready browning out. From
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: what I've been able to piece together from other stories.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: For the first fifteen or twenty minutes. I was jovial,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: happy as I usually am when I've tied a few down. However,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: the rest of the night was a nightmare. I'm surprised
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: I wasn't punched in the mouth. In fact, my wife
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: said she stopped her friend from punching me so that
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: he would not get in trouble, not to save me,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: and frankly, I agree with her. I absolutely deserved it.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: I was physically aggressive, lightly shoving my wife away from
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: me and my best friend, publicly raunchy with my wife,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: embarrassing her, saying very very hurtful things to her and
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: her friends, making death stares to people I just met,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: wandering off to I don't know, I just wandered off,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: I guess elsewhere, and my wife would have to come
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: chase me down and babysit me, which stole her away
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: from her friends that she rarely ever gets to see,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: as well as the entire concert. The group of people
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: I was with were great at first. They continued welcoming
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: me back with excitement to try and lift my spirits.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: I don't think they realized I was completely gone, unaware
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: of how absent mindedly drunk I was. My wife is
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: an actual saint. Before this night, I knew that already,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: but wow, she showed a grace and respect to me
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: that I absolutely did not deserve. She stayed with me
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: the whole time, even though I made her cry three
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: separate times. It was so bad that people that she
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: ran into from high school were wondering why she was
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: with such a monster, and complete strangers slash women in
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: the restroom, telling her to dump my ass, hugging her
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: as she cried. I was an absolute alcohol induced monster,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: A monster to the person closest to my heart, mother
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: of my children, and to everyone around me. My best
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: friend that night was able to talk some sense into
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: me as I sobered up. He took me under his
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: wing later in the night and really helped me realize
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: how big I messed up that this one was on me.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Safe to say, I ruined my wife's thirtieth birthday. I
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: ruined the whole weekend we were supposed to celebrate. She
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: of course, didn't want anything to do with me. The
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: next day, and the day after that, she didn't know
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: if she even wanted to stay with me. I had
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: to learn from others what happened that night, Shock after shock,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: and I am still in shock disbelief that I had
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: that monster inside of me. My best friend believes this
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: was coming from a place of jealousy, that I was
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: upset that others were stealing my rare time away from
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: my wife or with my wife because I mentioned something
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: about that in my drunken slurry of words. Everyone knows
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: me as the family man, the social worker, that the peaceful,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: lovable politics guy that's all about social justice. Now there
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: are strangers out there that only know me from my
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: death stare her friends that I've met only a handful
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: of times, that I've had awesome times with in the past,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: remember me as this unhinged fool. And my wife who
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: said she's never been so surprised and felt betrayed. I've
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: dealt with past traumas growing up, and through the years
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: of counseling, I've been able to work things out. Those
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: were things that happened to me, not because it was
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: my fault, but this, this is all my fault. I've
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: never had to write such a wrong. I've never felt shame,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: this deep embarrassment, seen myself as this monster. I've never
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: wanted to crawl into a hole and never come out again.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: The last few days, I've had many talks with my wife,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: both crying. I've decided I'm done drinking for good, so
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: that I never become this monster again, for myself, for
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: my wife, for my kids. Frankly, something I should have
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: done in the past. Not that I was this monster before,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: but alcohol has been a part of those past traumas.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: When growing up, I've also flirted with alcoholism, but never
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: crossed the line, always lived on it. I've apologized, cried,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: lost sleep, and texted her friends individually. I'm trying my
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: best to clean up the mess as best as I can,
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: but of course there's no going back. I've ruined her birthday,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: and I've stained my wife and her friend's minds as
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: the unhinged monster that I am. I've taken all the
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: heat and kept my defenses down because frankly, there is
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: no defense. Yes, it was never my intention. In fact,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: it was never my intention. In fact, my intention was
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: the best to celebrate the absolutely beautiful human being my
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: wife is. The whole weekend, I just lost control, and
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: now I'm facing the reality of not being aware enough
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: of my own limits. I don't know how to move
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: on other than showing her I'm serious. I'm done drinking,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: and now her mom won't speak to me as I've
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: really hurt her daughter, which I understand. If this happened
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: to my daughter, I'm sure I do the same. I'm
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: just lost. I don't know how to see myself as
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: before I didn't know this monster lived within me. Thank
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: you all for your time doing the show. It truly
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: helps week in and week out. From anonymous, Okay, was
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: not deserving of anybody's help or compassion. I think we
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: could just move right on.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: Do we just back the bus up on themselves so much?
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: I figured I might as well pile on more shovels
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: onto this grave sober.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Once in a while on social media I come across
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: something that's actually helpful.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: And this it was. It was actually helped me.
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: It touched it actually happened.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: It was the story. It touched me.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: But it was this, uh, it was this story. Somebody
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: was talking about this story, and who knows if it's
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: true or whatever, but talking about this Buddhist monk who
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: was talking to his students and is about this scenario
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: in which the student was holding a cup of coffee
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: and someone ran into them and it spilled out and
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: it was coffee spilled, and so he's like, he asked
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: the students, Okay, why did you spill your coffee and
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: they all said, well, because someone bumped into me. And
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: so he's like, he explained, No, He's like, you spilled
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: coffee because you were holding coffee. If you were holding water,
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: you would have spilled water. And so he is basically
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: making the point that whatever you hold onto is what
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: you will spill. So when life bumps into you or
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: when all these things happen, whatever you're holding onto, whether
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: that's fear, guilt, or shame, it will spill out. And
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: so if you're holding on to positive things, then positive
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: things will spill out when life goes wrong. So yeah,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: So it's just kind of this idea of like it
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: you need to always be mindful of the things that
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: you're holding onto kind of made me think of this
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: because with my experience working with people with substance use,
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: I was very.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: Much waiting to hear y'alls and fit on this because
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: I'm like, that's a little bit where my mind went.
• 43:47
  Speaker 5: But as like, you guys have all that history, Yeah.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Because no one, no one's doing really well in their
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: life and has everything going their way and then drinks
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: then becomes a complete asshole. Like, alcohol doesn't change who
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: you are. Alcohol allows those parts.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Of you to come out.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: I always I've always heard people say that, I never
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: like that a whole.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: Lot because it doesn't. It doesn't it's because you're an asshole.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: That's fine.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: But alcohol also does not amplify all traits equally.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: No, true, I would agree with that. Yeh yeah.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: So like if you are, but I'm saying amplify because
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: I'm substituting the word amplify because that's how I always
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: look at it is. Alcohol kind of amplifies characteristics within you.
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: Okay, it was already there, it's making it.
• 44:34
  Speaker 6: But I mean, if you are, you know, normally a
• 44:36
  Speaker 6: two percent asshole, and alcohol jumps you up to a
• 44:39
  Speaker 6: thirty percent asshole, right and doesn't jump up the compassion
• 44:43
  Speaker 6: on the other side at the same time, Well, then
• 44:45
  Speaker 6: you look.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Like an asshole and then you look like a monster.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean that you are an asshole and
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: that you are a monster. Let me rephrase it in
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: a different way, hit me, okay, I'll put this in
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: audio guy terms, do it.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, So you have a pirate over you think of, uh, don't.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Think of alcohol as being something that amplifies. Think of
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: You've got a part of your brain that acts like
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: a compressor. Okay, and so it's it's decreasing that signal.
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: Okay, Yeah, and alcohol, I don't understand any.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Alcohol turns off the compressor. Okay, that's I think that's
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: a better way of looking at it.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Brick oppressor still affects everything equally.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, yes, yes, yes, so it doesn't.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: So like you know, if if I'm doing well and
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: having a good day, there's still may be parts of
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: me or things that I think or feel, but I've
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: got another part of my brain that's holding that down
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: and keeping it contained.
• 45:49
  Speaker 6: Or you might not like it might be in your
• 45:50
  Speaker 6: brain normally, but you you get a little drunk, and
• 45:53
  Speaker 6: alcohol might make you fixate on that a little bit more,
• 45:55
  Speaker 6: whereas you would normally fix on it, fixate on it.
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I This kind of reminds me of one
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: of my best friends since childhood, and we've we've openly
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: talked about this being an issue we had, but it
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: was actually I want to say, for our friend's thirtieth birthday,
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: this is ironic now that I'm thinking about it.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: It is ironic? Is this just Peter right now?
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: He did say, help me in secrets? No, So one
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: of my childhood best friends we go. I tagged along
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: on a cruise with one of her friends who was
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: turning thirty, and I like knew her kind of well, but.
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: I was like, all right, I'll jump along.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: So while we're on this cruise, my best friend she
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: one of these nights is just like shit faced drunk like.
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: She's and on a cruise.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: That's kind of scary because it turns out like midnight,
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: rolls around, two am, rolls around. I'm like trying to
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: go to bed, and I'm like, is she gonna go overboard?
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: Like I don't know, Like I don't know if you
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: all been on cruises, Like is she gonna fall off?
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: Like I don't fucking know. It's kind of scary. It's
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: dark out there, and I'm like, I don't know what
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: she's doing. So anyway, we had a whole excursion plan
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: the next day to go like swim in these underground caves.
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: It was amazing, But what happened was because they were
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: out so late, we had to be up at like
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: six or seven am to do this, and by two
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: am she still was not back in the room. So
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: I like, get up, I get her going in. This
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: other girl in the room who was with us, I
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: had just met her on this trip and she had
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: stayed out late to drinking, and so I'm like, all right,
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: we gotta get up, we gotta go. The three of
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: us go on this ride. The van on the way
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: to the the underwater thing had to pull over so
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: they could vomit on the way there. Wow, they're like
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: sleeping in the back of the van all like.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: That.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: I hope not, because I was like sorry, and so
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: we get in the water. The water's really cold, so
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: that felt good to them. But it was just like
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: the short version is it.
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: I was upset.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: I was like, hey, uh, we're on this vacation, you
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: have kids, you have family, of all these stressors in life,
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: we don't get to see each other that often. This
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: was gonna be really fun. This is an awesome excursion,
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: and you just got like ship face stayed up all
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: night and like, drag your ass out here your vomity,
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: like this sucks.
• 48:16
  Speaker 5: Like uh.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: So we've had other conversations since then about like, hey,
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: why do you turn to drinking, and she is not
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: a person that sucks. She's like an amazing human, right,
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: But these things come out sometimes when she's drinking because
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: she's like, well, I don't get to let loose, you know,
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: I have to keep everything together. Like it kind of
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: reminds me what you're saying, Nick, where they have to
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: they have to have all their shit together. There's no
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: outlet sometimes and so then the alcohol brickla too far,
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: brings the dam down, so the floodgates open.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: And it's like I when.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: Parties show up in Las Vegas and they say that, oh,
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: this party, this this big group of people. This is
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: like a conference or a meeting or whatever. There are
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: always a couple of groups that when you hear it's
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: that group, you go, motherfuckers are gonna get torn down today.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: One of them is I think Less Surprise.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: College just kind of come get tore up. Yeah, yeah, crops,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: come get toe the fuck up. Yeah. The other one though,
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: elementary school teachers.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: If there's a group of elementary school teachers coming, those
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: fuckers are going to party.
• 49:23
  Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, that's what they're doing. They're just letting loose.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: You're gonna cut like body shots. I'm gonna tell you
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: I can confirm this. So my wife's teacher, and they'll
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: have you know, big end of your parties and stuff,
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: you know, the teachers and like she's not a person
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: that wants to party or whatever.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: And what it's always surprised your wife teach too elementary
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: or elementary, but like I mean, it is, it's always
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: surprising the stories of how hardbody goes. People well, people
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: falling in the pool, you know, like I mean just
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: all over the place. You also have usually have a
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: big age right yeah. Yeah, like you have some of
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: the older teachers, but then you have like the right
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: out of college teachers, right and you know they're teaching
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: second grade because they are only twenty two or twenty.
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: Three and partying.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like they're still partying like they're in their twenties.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: So Catholic priests, yeah, I've heard that one.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: That's a big yeah. Yeah, yah, they party, man, they
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: get into that communion wine. So oh is that what
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: they call those kids? That's what they're called.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: Jesus, you're the one who said get into Oh.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: No, honestly, you might as well have been wearing shorts.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Oh there it is so okay.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Anonymous I have a few notes on this that I'm
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: gonna be Usually I think i'm chipper Jim, and I'm
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: usually kind of on your side on things. I'm gonna
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: nudge you a little bit. I'm gonna this is gonna
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: be challenging. So I think a couple of things can
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: happen in this kind of a story. As I'm hearing
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: the story, I like that you're taking the track of
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: saying I am going to stop. I need to stop drinking.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: This is this is not the first time that I
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: have got too far, and it's been a problem in
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: my life. But there's some language that you're using that
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: I think I want to shine a light on and
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about context. And
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: this is just coming from backgrounds working in substance abuse,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: so one of the things that often happens with especially men.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: But I see this across the board with people that
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: abuse alcohol. A lot of times they feel justified because
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: they're like, I work hard, I pay the bills, I'm
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: a good guy. And in your letter, my friend, I
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: hear that, I hear I take care of the kids.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: I was taking care of her. We work on different
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: shifts when never see each other, you know, my friend
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: is sympathetic to me, is like, you know, man, it's
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: probably because like you don't to spend enough time with
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: your little jealous like you just miss her. And it's like,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: you know, in your story, you're like I was DJing,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: I was bartending, I was doing all the shopping. I
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: was in the grocery, and like that can fuel these
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: kinds of events because we're like, you know what, I'm
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: putting on a great show for her. She's gonna have
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: a great night. I'm paying for a concert, I'm throwing
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: everything at her. I'm giving her a great night. I'm
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: gonna have a good time too. I deserve to have
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: a good time too. And that little voice in the
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: back of your head's like she can't say shit about it,
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: because like I'm I'm giving her a great night. She
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: surrounded by friends. I'm not the center, She's the center.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: I can just get sauced. And that's how I'm gonna
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: enjoy myself. I'm gonna enjoy myself too. And I'll bet
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: that doesn't have to be an active line of thought either, right,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: it doesn't even have to be active, but like it's
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: it's subtly back there in the back of our heads
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: is I'm this you know I deserve it. And this
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: is where a lot of people who end up with
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: a really bad relationship with alcohol get to And you
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: said in your letter, like, you know, I've danced on
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: the line of alcoholism, but I've never crossed over it.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: I wonder if you have, because what that means. Let's
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: talk about that line, writer, because this is where a
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: lot of people justify things. They say, Oh, I'm not
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: like so and so. There's always a so and so,
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: there's always people you grew up with, there's always friends
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: that you have. You're like the guy under the bridge
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: that's an alcoholic. Oh, my friend Tom, he's an alcoholic.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: He wakes up and has to suck down, you know,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: fit the vodka to get the shakes off him. That's
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: what an alcoholic is. But no, that's not what we
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: in the profession think of as alcoholism. You can be
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: a binge who's sober most of the week. You know,
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: you're sober six and a half days a week, and
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: then you have this one big tremendous thing where you
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: suck it all down and like you're really going overboard.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: You change who you are and there's this self destructive pattern.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: We might still look at that and call it alcoholism
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: isn't even a word we really use that much. We're
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: talking about your relationship to alcohol, alcohol use disorder. Yeah,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: And so we change the way we think about this
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: and what we're looking for. Writer is usually a handful
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: of general criteria we could get into, like the really
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: medical weeds about this, but big picture, how we know
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: there's a problem. One. We want to see this over time. Right,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: if it's the first time you've ever drank and you
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: had a bad weekend of it, we're not looking at
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: you and thinking of a bad relationship with that whole right, Yeah,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: even if it was yucky and it hungover and made
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: a mass like Okay, we're looking for a chronic had
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: a bad week? Yeah? Have you had a bad relationship
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: a sporadic relationship with alcohol six months or longer? Do
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: you have emotional or physical cravings for alcohol? And that's
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: the emotional part is the one that people sleep on
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: because I think, oh no, I don't have cravings. I
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: don't get the shakes, Like that's not what I asked.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: I didn't ask about with draw symptoms. That would have
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: been a different question I'm talking about, is this something
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: that you look for as a way to like equalize
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: your life. Do you feel like, oh, man, if we're
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: going out, I really hope I can have Are you
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: planning it?
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: Are you thinking like if you if you have the shakes,
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: if you have physical symptoms of it level the conversation
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: gets a lot simple, that that's a really fast you're
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: physically hurting, physically dependent on.
• 54:22
  Speaker 6: Us, and that that is a that is an easier
• 54:25
  Speaker 6: conversation to have because we're not talking about is this
• 54:27
  Speaker 6: person an alcoholic?
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: This person has over indulged in this drug and has
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: physically injured themselves.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: Yes, and now we have to deal with.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: That now your body top of the alcoholism and everything else,
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: but the alcoholism, like, we're not worried that this person
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: likes the drink.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: We're worried that this person has the fucking shakes. And
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: my die to I let go of the word alcoholism
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: because this is where a lot of people get because
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: they think it's like, yeah, I'm not in the alcoholic club.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not an alcoholic. I'm not you know, don't have alcoholism.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: And it's like that has distracted so many people from
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: stopping and changing their lives because they think that there's
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: a threshold, right, and like it's really this gray area
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: of your relationship to alcohol is unhealthy and it must
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: be changed, right, And so like you're right, Jacob, If
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: you're physiologically dependent on the chemical of alcohol in your
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: blood colfunction, your shit's falling apart. Now you need medical deals.
• 55:18
  Speaker 6: We don't have questions, and more importantly, the writer doesn't
• 55:21
  Speaker 6: have questions, right, because then the writer is writing and
• 55:23
  Speaker 6: going like I can't control my hands enough to type
• 55:26
  Speaker 6: out this email.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: That's different. But like drinking yourself sick is a real problem.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: So like if you've been drinking for longer than six months,
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: your relationship with alcohol goes back more than six months.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: That's one criteria. We're looking for, physical or emotional or
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: mental health cravings for the alcohol. It's a thing that
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: you long for, You pine for, you fantasize about you,
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: think about you, budget time, and emotions, force that you
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: can get it into you so that you can live
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: your life. Another thing we're looking for is have you
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: tried to cut back but have failed? Have you tried
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: to stop? Have you tried to cut back? If you
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: promise yourself. Okay, no more liquor, only beer, Okay, no more,
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: be truly look like yep, I'm only going to drink
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: with friends. Okay, I'm only drinking on weekends. Okay, I'm
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: only drinking when we don't have the kids. Okay, I'm
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: not drinking anymore. I'm taking a break. Okay, Well, nah,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: I think I'm back. I don't want to mess up
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: the night I'm gonna have. If you've made these promises
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: and you've constantly tried to negotiate this, you've tried to
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: cut back, but you have failed, that's a symptom that
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: we are looking for.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: It's like making a list of things that you want
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: to do before you turn forty years old, yes, and
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: then arguing with other people to what should and should list.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: That's exactly it. It's accountability that goes away. And the last
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: one that we're looking for is using despite negative consequences.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: If you've had negative consequences and writer in your story,
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: you tell us that this is not the first time
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: the monster has come out before, but never quite this bad.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: What you're talking about is just new rock bottoms that
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: you're discovering, But there have been negative consequences in your life,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: and that has not deterred you. You've always come back,
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: even though you've been shaken, even though you've been startled,
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: even though you've lost friendships, even though people have thought
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: less of you. Even though it's been bad, you've been
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: in danger, You've gotten legal consequences, whatever it was, health consequences,
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: financial consequences, relational consequences. Bad things have happened that you
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: have had regrets over, and you have still not stopped.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: All of this is what we are looking to when
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: we assess whether or not you have an unhealthy relationship
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: with alcohol. And that's what we're looking for. There's not
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: some magic line that now we does it, you know, Nick,
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: like you know, does the sign of the cross over
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: you and now you're an alcoholic like we see it.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: That's not what does have that authority. Yeah, he can't,
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: don't you piszic. He will be you.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: That's right, I mean, honestly, don't put me in that position.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. That puts you right. Want me to
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: do it? You made it, steps in front of the shot.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: So all of this is just to I think bring
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a challenge to you. Writer that
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day. People that quit alcoholic,
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: people that go to alcoholics anonymous. The criteria to go
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: to AA is not that you are an alcoholic, they
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: tell you at the door. The only criteria they have
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: to come to AA meetings is a desire to stop drinking.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: That's it. So there's not some bright line that you
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: have to get to. You have to get to the
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: ninth level of hell. And now you actually have a problem.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Now it's time to stop. It's time to stop. The
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: moment you realize that at any given time, any roll
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: of the dice, my night could go terribly and other
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: people do not have that problem that you. The only
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: drink you can control is the first drink. And you
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: can tell yourself, oh, this one got away from me
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: because I didn't put some food in my belly. All
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: this one got away from me because I was having
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: so much fun. All this one got away from because
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: I was entertaining others, taking shots with friends. I was
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: having a good time. And all those things can be true.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: That can be true. But I've had a lot of
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: people that when I've worked with them and we've gotten
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: deeper and deeper and deeper into this, they sit down,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: and when they finally get fucking honest, they tell me
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: I knew what I was doing the entire goddamn time.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: And I only say that it can be true, to
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: say that, it doesn't matter if it is true, right
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: it is, It is beside the point. If it is true.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: I am a drinker. I'm around people who drink a
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: lot of working taym an industry. We all like it is.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: It is a part of my industry. I have a
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: hard and fast rule. I have this rule for myself.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: I have this rule for my life once. I have
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: this rule for my friends and people that I'm out with.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Whatever you do, you're responsible for, right. That's the alcohol,
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: the drugs, whatever it is. It doesn't change who is
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: responsible for your actions. You're still responsible for each and
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: every action that you that you do. And when you
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: look like an assholena, you look like an asshole, right,
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: I assault like you'll understand that's not how I know.
• 59:25
  Speaker 6: My friends like, I'm not always that person, but last
• 59:28
  Speaker 6: night I was an asshole.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: I was drinking. But that can't the drinking can't be
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: an excuse. But if you're always an asshole when you're drinking, now,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: it's your fault for putting that in you and being
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: an asshole that it's your.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Fault no matter what. Right, Oh no, no, no, I
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: am I am on team. It's your fault. Yeah, I
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: am very heavily on team. It is your fault. So yeah,
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: if you and I would say learn something from this experience.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: I'm always a little edgy about saying things like making
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: life decisions in these moments, saying like I'm never going
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: to drink again that may or may not be too high.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: I have a goal to set in this moment and
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: just something to let yourself down over later. But you know,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: you can definitely say like I will not drink to
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: excess again. I will not make an ass of myself again.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: You can make, you can make, you know, smaller promises
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: to yourself. If that's not something that you feel comfortable
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: doing with. If you do, then fucking a Like, if
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: that's where you want to go with it, cool like that.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: I want to jump in with a subtle caveat on that,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: because there's a lot of people that will not take
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: the first step because they feel like, well, don't take
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: the first if you can't take the ten thousandth and
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: so it's like, well, if I can't promise you're never
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: going to do it again, then I shouldn't stop at all.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: I should just regulate. And it's like you've already demonstrated
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: an inability to regulate this. That's how I know it's
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: a problem for you. And so like that, I don't
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: want you stopping. It's just like with the SSRIs, it's like,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: don't not take them because you've heard there's a side
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: effect like something with alcohol. Don't not quit alcohol because
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: you're scared. You can't do it for forty years. Tell
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: your and the AA. They say, just for today, I'm
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: not drinking. I'm not. I don't know what I'm gonna
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: do tomorrow, but I know today I am not okay
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: with it. It's not good for me. I'm not gonna
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: I think you're saying what I was trying to say. Yeah,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: I think you're saying it better. But yeah, that's YEA
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: with a more piratey accent. Are got to get those
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: hard rs. That's right, that's right.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: There's something that kind of jumped out to me.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: I agree with everything you said in those role like
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: amazing points and you have You and Nick both have
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: a lot of experience with that, so I feel.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: Like we do well more than we'd like pegging. Yeah,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: we we We've had our fair share of you know
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: something time over the seven seas. Swab deck is scaley
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: deck was right there, I was right there.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 7: Swab.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: My deck's pretty fucking good. Swab the poop deck is
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: better come up landed. Stick the landing. Just because an
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: eight it's fine, doesn't mean I shouldn't go for the tent.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: Advice today.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Solid.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: But no, the naming. I know he's not saying that
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: the alcohols a monster, but he keeps like it sounds
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: like separating himself from it. So this monster lived within me.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: It kind of to me sounds a little bit like
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: that's a hard thing to hear and accept. Writers, So
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: I say this gently where we don't want to believe
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: that we're capable.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 5: Of those things.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: So kind of gaining separation by saying this monster within me,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: it sounds like that's maybe what's happening there. You're trying
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: to remove yourself from proximity to like these hurtful things
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: you did to somebody that you love. I also tapping
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: into kind of some jso juvenile sex funder treatment because
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: it's a little adjacent to addiction, the beating yourself up
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: and just really laying into yourself. I get why you're
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: doing it, because that's how you're feeling, but please try
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: to not do so much of that, really really work
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: on like trying to work on that self esteem and say, well,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: I'm worth trying for I'm worth like not, Oh, I'm
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: this worthless piece of shit because I did this hurtful thing.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 5: I'm just a monster.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: I don't deserve I don't even deserve her, Like, no,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: you know what, I deserve to work hard for this relationship.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: I deserve to be happy because I want I want
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: my significant other to be happy. I want my kids
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: to see me a certain way. Like your kids are
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: so young right now. You have so much room for
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: improvement here. And I'm also really glad to hear that.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: And on one hand, at least this is happening. They're
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: coming to the surface now and you're writing in You're
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: talking about therapy, You're talking about trying to reconcile with
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: like friends, her friends, her family.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: I love the making amends, already owning it, taking accountability,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: and like, I'm very comfortable and everybody's different on this, Yeah,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: I'm very comfortable differentiating me from the monster, and I'll
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: use external as a concept therapy. I'm very comfortable with
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: that because like, for me personally, I relate to this
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: like drunk. Jim is fundamentally a different guy and I
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: don't like him and I'm scared of him sometimes and
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: I'm worried about the things he can do in the world,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: and so like that, that Doctor Jekyll mister Hyde, you know,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: concept is extremely relatable and I think a lot of
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: humans feel that way. And if you realize that mister
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Hyde lives inside of you, then it is your fucking
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: responsibility to never let that fuck her out right, and
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: to understand that if you know, if you fucking own
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: Jurassic Parks control of.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 5: The monster, it's not the monster got out, it's like exactly, And.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: It's like I have to be mindful of that.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: I used to use the same analogy and stuff, so
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: kind of like like, yeah, you've got this monster inside you.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: I think that's a I would agree with Jim in
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: that sense that it's it's a fine understanding to have
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: a fine way to uh to look at it, because
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: then it kind of puts things into perspective. But then
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: also I think, kind of going back to Jacob's point
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: as far as like responsibility, it's like thank you, It's like, well,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: don't let the monster drive the car. Yeah, right, like
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: you you still own the car, right, you can drive
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: if you want to, or you can let the monster
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: drive if you want to.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 5: But then you got.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: It's like Batman when Harvey Dent is like, yeah, no,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: the joker is a fucking psychopath. I'm here for the
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: guy that let him out, Like, yeah, no, we all
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: know what he's capable of. One of you.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: Fuckers let him out, though, that's on you, Like, yeah,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: you will be held responsible for that. All of that
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: accountability talk, I think is where people show up to rehab.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: It's where people show up to counseling. It's where people
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: start asking for help. I agree with what you said
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: to Whitney, and this is something we say a lot
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: in substitute treatment. Shame and guilt are not tools. We
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: can't use them. We can't use them to build anything,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: but they're really fucking good at breaking through the wall
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: of denial. They are essentially sledgehammers. We can't build much
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: with them, but there's a turn. Yeah, there's a time
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: where you need to go ahead and pick that fucker up,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: and you need to shatter every illusion that you have
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: that this has not been a problem in your life,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: that is not sporadically going to be a problem in
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: the future, that the risks do greatly outweigh the rewards.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: And if you can shatter those problems or that that
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: thinking with the sledgehammer of shame, then you put it down,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: and now you begin the work of reconstructing and building
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: a better you. And again, I don't want you having
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: to make huge lifetime decisions here about I'll never touch
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: alcohol again. I'm not trying to like fucking proselytize for sobriety.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: I drink, you know, But like I just having worked
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: in this industry a long time and seeing a lot
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: of people go through what you've gone through, it's very
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: easy a month later to fucking shrug it off, Anonymous,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: because your wife starts sleeping with you again, You're you're
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: playing with your kids, your friends are nice to you again,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: You're around your family. Yeah, you start sitting to your
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: mother in law again behind your wife's back. Everything's back
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: to normally. Yeah, you're dressing up for Halloween and you go,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: you know what, I'm not a bad guy. Nobody sees
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: me as a bad guy that bygones are bygones. I'll
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: make it. They don't know mother in law right, well yeah, yeah,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: if they do that, they be you know, it's frowned upon,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: you know in some c so I mean, but yeah,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: like it's very easy to sweep us back under the rug.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: And that's why I guess you've taken the time to
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: write into the show. I believe that you wrote into
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: the show in a moment of distress and really spilling
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: your guts, and I guess I want to honor that
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: by saying, don't waste this moment of pain. Let it
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: wake you up. Your relationship with alcohol is out of balance,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: my friend. I hope that you will do professional work
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: to recalibrate.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 6: And the other people too, the friends, the mother in law,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 6: the even your wife. The only way that you're going
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 6: to you can apologize to them. You can do all
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 6: of these things. The only way that you're going to
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 6: actually win them back is by showing them yes, like
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 6: their term work. They have learned through your actions what
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 6: you look like when you get too drunken out of control, right,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 6: and they're going to learn from your actions what you're
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 6: going to look like going forward, and that's how they're
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 6: going to determine, you know, whether they're going to keep
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 6: hanging out with you.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And to be clear, if anybody in the audience
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: is kind of like gritting your teeth a little bit
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: at some of my fervor on this, the writer clearly
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: said this is not the first time. This is just
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: the worst time. And I'm honoring that because when I
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: see the pattern, that's when I say my job is
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: to grab you by the shirt and tell you to
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: wait the fuck up, because like they're they're not gonna
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: indefinitely forgive you. And I've had so many people that
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: are functional alcoholics. I've had people that are literally surgeons
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: and fucking medical doctors sweeping it under the rug because
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: they're really good people and they do really hard work,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: and everybody really likes them and respects them, and it
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: overlooks it eventually, and like they get away with a lot,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: and it's like, look, fucking you need to deal with
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: this shit. If this is habitually a pattern in your life,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not telling you be sober for reast of your life.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: But I'm telling you cannot afford to sweep this under
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: the rug and wait till the next time the volcano explodes.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: Like every time it does. You look in the mirror
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: and you go, how do I keep letting this happen?
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: Because you do not have the ability to control it,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: which is how I know it's a disorder. That's how
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: I know it's a disease. I don't, you know, look
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: in the mirror. People don't look in the mirror that
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: have diabetes and go, well, why can't I just focus
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: and make my own goddamn insulin. It's you have an
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: illness in you're pancreas, You're you're asking it to do
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: something it cannot do. And the same sense, those who
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: have an alcohol use disorder are asking their brain to
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: do something that it cannot do. It cannot regulate its
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: relationship with this. It's beyond their ability. That's why there's
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: such a thing as addiction science and medicine, and that's
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: why we have fucking jobs. So get help, Anonymous. I
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: hope you will. This is something that's worth dealing with.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: That being said, I can create insulin at will. Okay, Oh,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: you just meditate? Yeah there, Oh, oh ship, Oh did
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: you just squirt something? Yeah, that's how you put down
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: the tar. He's like an octopus. He inks whenever he's nervous.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: It's called la Jacob. When we see you.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: Tugging furiously at your shirt, you didn't just you know,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: will that in your mind?
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: Take her to the lab? It is sweet? Okay?
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: See yeah, yeah, this.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: Is why we're the tarp. This is why you need
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: the tarp. You'll never regret putting down a tarp. Why
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: you're going I shouldn't have put the start down. You know.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: This is why doctor David Peter is not going to
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: be on the fucking show. I can tell you that
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: right because he's anti dart better than this.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: If doctor David Titter is anti Tarkic, I don't want
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: doctor David Peter on this show.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break and when we come back,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: we're talking about impostor polyamory. Fuck.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're listening to. Today's episode is brought to you
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: by Robert Brownie, j Kayla Lambsberry, Kevin Chamberlain and Stanley,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: Adam Hathaway, Dan Martin Live, Hey Yo, Andrews let me,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: Chad Meg and Eca Le Prince and if you would
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: like to sponsor the show, become a therap producer Hatreon
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: dot com.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: Slash therapy, dead men, tap no tastes.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: NASA spends millions to retrieve a gardening enthusiast.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: Oh oh oh buzz the Martian.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes he's a botanist.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: I was thinking Apollo thirteen. I wouldn't literally, I just
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: rewatched it. I watched it last week. That's so great
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: worked out for I was like, how do you remember that?
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 5: That's like, I don't remember inception that it was a billionaire.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: Rich girl, poor boy, freeze to death. Buzz Titanic, damn it.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: I was thinking, Guy on vacation nearly gets eaten by
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: his own clone, Guy on vacation, I don't think this
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: one's accurate.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 4: Nearly gets eaten.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: Guy on vacation nearly gets eaten by Etna.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, his own clone. It's not him, yeah, cloned something
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: but not him.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, by his own creator.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: I don't like that one, Don't that sounds a very
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: good description? Family can't stop losing their kid.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: From alone. Yes, I would gone any of them, all right,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: I can't believe alone. At some point CPS takes.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: There are consequences. Okay, angry Scottish woman gives her mom
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: a bad hair day.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: Angry Scottish woman, angry Scottish woman.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 5: I mean, I don't Scottish. I have a guess, but I.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: Don't think it's what's your guests hair day.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 5: The Disney movie Brave.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 8: Oh my god, I got wow. Whitney hold that one
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 8: out turns into a bear. One of the better Disney movies.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: Very good.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 5: I did think that. Utting the answer, I was like,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 5: all right, last.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: One, A guy finally gets the girl by changing species.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: Oh that's a buzz. I think you got it and
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: you're at frog prince, no ship?
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 5: Is that what your guest was?
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 5: Wait, read it again.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: Oh well, buzz buzz shrek no guy. The fly.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: Guy finally gets the girl by changing species.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: I think this is oh yeah, changing buzz avatar. Yes,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: good job, very good. Damn it, good job.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: Man waited twice, Yeah avatar, Jesus, what is blue?
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: If I didn't get that one? There is I just
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: saw the preview for the third one. How they're still doing?
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, how can you say?
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 5: What's the.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: Brilliant? Have you seen the naked gun? The new one?
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: No, the beginning of the movie, there's a bomb thing
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: that like they're they're working really like all the bank robbers,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: is like an ocean eleven thing or getting and they
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: open up the vault and they pull it out and
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: it's it's called plot device.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen a gun and I haven't seen the
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: new spinal tap.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah those.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I would recommend it. It's on Paramount, so
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: check it out. Imposter Polyamory, Hi, guys, I really enjoyed
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: the show and I have a question that's a little
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: outside the box. Feel free to pass this one over
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: if you're not familiar with polyamory. Luckily we all are familiar.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: You find out America. I am a woman in my
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: mid thirties and am polyamorous by orientation, which means that
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: I view it the same as my romantic and sexual orientation.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: It's an innate part of who I am. And thanks
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: for the shout out on demisexuality. If you're well, said
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: to go. If you're unfamiliar with it. Polly is a
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: highly stigmatized relational structure under the umbrella of consensual non
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: monogamy or CNM. It means that I have romantic relationships
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: with multiple people at the same time with everyone's informed
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: and enthusiastic consent. I've simply never understood why people can
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: love multiple family members or friends but not romantic partners.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: I could go down a rabbit hole on Polly, but
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: I'll try to keep it brief. I have two partners. Josh,
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: we've known each other for eighteen years now. With romantic
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: history so convoluted, we don't know how long we've been together.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: Who is long distance and is also seeing someone locally
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: who is semi serious. Michael is local to me. We've
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: been together for a little over a year, and he
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: is married with young kids. His wife my Metamoor also
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: has two other partners that are pretty new now. For
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: the actual issue, it's a running joke that I have
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: a type, and that type is engineers. Josh and Michael
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: are both successful in their respective fields, and even when
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: Michael is driving toward jobs at seventy miles per hour
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: and even went to the same exclusive engineering college, my
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: Metamoor has a master's degree and works in finance. On
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: the completely opposite end of the spectrum. I recently quit
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: my toxic and stressful job in hospitality management, went back
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: to a CNA job, and am applying to grad school
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: in a specialized human resources field. It's no secret to
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: anyone that I am the least intelligent or successful person
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: in our polycule, the network of all connected relationships. The
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: four of us had our first group date this week,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: and all those insecurities hit me like a ton of bricks.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: I could barely follow the work related conversations at dinner,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: let alone contribute anything worthwhile. Because I see myself as
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: being worth less than I am. I'm constantly expecting to
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: be vetoed. Michael insists that he would never let that happen,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: but I think everyone knows that if it came down
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: to it, he would of course pick his wife and
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: the mother of his children. I've been vetoed by Josh's
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: partners in the past, though we've worked through that. The
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: problem is that I live with complex PTSD and tend
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: to withdraw and fawn when I'm in uncomfortable situations, which
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: then causes friction with my partners when they feel me
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: pull away. My question is how do I stop looking
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: at my partners like they're better than me and approach
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: my relationships as if we were all equal partners. My
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: self worth has come a long way in therapy, but
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: I just can't seem to let go of the idea
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: that I'm not good enough for them because I can't
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: match their intellectual or career and financial success. Ironically, I
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: think Michael is feeling insecure about both of his partners
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: getting master's degrees, while he's arguably the most successful out
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: of anyone. I'd appreciate any insight you have on disconnecting
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: self worth from intelligence and career success, especially in the
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: context of multiple partners when you're on the bottom end
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: of the scale. Thanks Kate. I like the complexity of this.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: That's a good question.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 5: I feel like I can relate to part of this.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 5: Not the part you.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: Would like any engineers are running a train on you. Whitney, Well, Whitney, Whitney.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 3: Really ran with that one, ran the tracks with that one. No,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: the part where you feel kind of inadequate around others
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 3: who are more intelligent than you, especially when it comes
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 3: to relationships or dating, like when Peter and I first
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 3: started dating. To be honest, that's one of the things
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 3: I found really attractive in him, and that I feel
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: attracted toward in anyone that that I was dating before.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: That is that like if they're really smart or just
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 3: like highly intelligent, I felt that draw to them, So
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 3: I get like that attraction there, but then also at
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 3: the same time feeling like I'm just a funing idiot
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: then like I can't hold up to like these conversations
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: or or what if I get lost or they just
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: think I'm dumb or I don't know. There's a lot
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 3: of self talk that goes into that in the beginning,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: and I know you're saying, this isn't the beginning.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 5: You've been with these people.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 4: For eighteen years and Josh, Yeah, for Josh.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 3: Right, I think for me, speaking to that side of
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: it is just really working to find your own value.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: I would say in the relationship. I know that's tricky
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 3: because kind of relying on other people, but it comes
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 3: with that sense of security, Like over eighteen years, why
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: does Josh keep coming back?
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 5: Like why does he say? Because he really cares about you?
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 7: Right?
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 3: And I know that you said a lot of things
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: are coming up with your other partner with Michael, and
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 3: there's like fear that he'll just maybe abandon you and
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: then right and then mosey on over to yeah, his wife,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: he'll be vetoed.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: What an interesting dynamic as part of polyamory because like
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: all of us have the risk that somebody will break
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: your heart or break up with you, which is functionally
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: the veto, But this is the veto once removed, right,
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: because it's not that I'm dating Josh and Josh is
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: losing interest in me and it's not working out. It's
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: his partner, if that's the primary, If there is such
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: a thing in that dynamic that person can cast a
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: veto all the way over to me and end our relationship,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: which has happened to Kate. Josh's partners have vetoed her
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: and she's scared that. Well, Mike's gonna do that too,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: because his wife will probably be like, oh, she's dumb
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: or she's not on our level, which is a whole
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: nother aspect to this. That boy, that's interesting.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 5: It really is.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 3: I think the writer pointing out in the very beginning
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: like polyamory is something of an identity for them, and
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 3: I like that in a lot of ways, them pointing
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: out like, oh, we love multiple other people in my life,
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 3: like you have children, you love both of your children,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 3: you know one isn't I love this one more? And
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 3: I don't love you anymore.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 5: Okay, I can't wait to hear about that.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: Hold the gold medal for a while.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 4: And that's the same.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: Thing you do with your students. You let them for
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: your love as well, make them fight to the death.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 5: That was why it was, Yeah, where they weren't even
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 5: mad He's really done well.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: Until they're like, I need his approval. Goddamn.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 3: So the fawning, you know, I hear that as being like, oh,
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 3: let me just kind of make myself into somebody that
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 3: that they want to keep around. That's kind of hard
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 3: to hear. I think, I just I mean, and having
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 3: SEP complex PTSD involved in this is a.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 5: Whole different realm.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 3: And I know you didn't really get into any specifics
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 3: there was just fine, but it does. It makes it
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 3: a lot harder to find that self confidence, to find
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 3: that self worth and not feel those insecurities, even if
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 3: nobody's giving you those insecurities right now, Like they're not
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: sending that mess such to you. It's completely you from
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 3: what you've said, like making that up in your head.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: It's like, well, they think I'm dumb and they're gonna
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 3: veto me.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: So I've had this happen almost exactly exact story.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was just gonna say we.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: Got vetoed and in my Poll relationship, which was my
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: high school band, and so we had a cool like
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: punk band and my buddy brought me into it. And
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: so here we were like four guys trying to play
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: and like battle the bands very poll, and it just
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: so happened. The other three dudes were just studs. They
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: just were gorgeous, like all three of them, but they
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: they weren't dicks about it, but they were like aggressively
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: handsome and you know, so like each of them is
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: like a nine slash ten. And I'm in this thing
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: on talent alone. There was no doubt the man, I'm
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: here for talent, baby, I'm working my ass.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: I want to keep you in the band, but we
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: need to be really cool. If you could wear this
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: bad like, we just think you'd be better as like
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: the boss so punk, Yeah, so punk, It's too great, man,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: I love the spider Man.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: Dude, just face the back und Yeah exactly. And and
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: that band was called and this is the part where
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: I insert the name of that really popular band where
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: they all wear masks, But I don't know what that
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: band was. Yeah, kiss that band was called Kiss but no,
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: like so at some point I remember like we were like,
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: oh man, my friend had to like kick me out
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: of the band, and it was like why, Like I'm
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: doing really good, this is all going really well, but
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: like I got vetoed by another guy who like was
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: kind of like telling our mutual friend who was my
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: close friend, like, hey, you know, I don't think Jimmy's
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: really like, you know, the right fit, you know, for
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: all of this. And I was like it wasn't ability,
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: Like I was playing really well, but Okay, I don't
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: think it was just handsomness, because high school boys don't
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: actually care about that. But these guys were just so
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: fucking hot, but like it was like being truly punk,
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: Like they were all really punk, and I would like
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: preppy punk. And so it was like, is he really
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: does this work for us? Yeah?
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: Like the gym to come to the next recording dressed
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: is what he thinks of as preppy punk. I already
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: know what it looks like. Top collar, it's youth pastor.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah he nailed it, nailed metal studded belt, Converse sneakers, Yeah, no,
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: I haven't.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 5: Is great.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 9: The youth it's functionally so but this feeling that like
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 9: you can be kicked out of your polycule, your social group,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 9: that this group that you're you care about because you're
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 9: not seen as cut from the same cloth.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: Like I wasn't punk enough in that case. I think
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: it was the punk thing, but I wasn't punk enough
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: to like hang with them.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: By the way, they were legitimate and they and they
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: discussed those things with Jim late.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: There was an essay.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 5: Written dire hair Black, Oh exactly.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: You know it wasn't like, you know as much as
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: they were. So like I definitely relate to that issue.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: And that's such a strange idea that like you could
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: be kicked out of your your friendship group, and I
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: think people relate to that. In life, you'd be kicked
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: out of a job because like you're not really one
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: of us. But like this is so intimate and to
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: like share that connection with somebody and then some like
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: their their other person. It is a.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: Riskier relationship in some ways because of that, because you're
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: you're not just depending on one person to not veto you.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: You're depending on a group of people.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: You have to you have to keep a group of
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: people essentially happy with you.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and the writer keeps mentioning the stuck out
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 3: to me, they keep mentioning intelligence and success, and I mean,
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 3: I know they kind of call themselves out for this,
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 3: but like, what are we what are we calling success?
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: Is that?
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 5: I think that's we're back to the guard, like the
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 5: haircut guard.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah, seven seven in seven guard not.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: Not even escaping the fact that a lot of successful
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: people are not intelligent.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 7: Exactly exactly wealthy person realizing my god, No.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 3: I think the person who did, like Elon Musk's little
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 3: biography or whatever, was like, yeah, it's.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 5: Not that smart. He just around himself with people.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the movie class Onion portrays that.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 4: Yes, it does, it does.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 5: That's so true.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I would just challenge you, like, where does
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 3: this idea of what you're calling success, what you're calling intelligence.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 3: It sounds like they're getting together. They're all engineers. They
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 3: are going to talk about that. Jim and Nick just
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 3: went into like I don't know, or Nick was talking
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 3: to Jacob about like compressors and ship I don't.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 5: Know what the fuck that is. Well, that's fair doesn't
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 5: know either.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 3: I got Jacobs to get around other musicians and talk
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 3: about things I don't have a fucking clue about that
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 3: doesn't make them or mean more or less intelligent.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: I think we're all comfortable.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 5: I know, I don't. I'm one of two people who doesn't.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 5: Never had a doctorate and.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: Never Christmassy goes on the line.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 5: I don't know how.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: I never have to put the belt up on the line.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: It just comes up once you did once it was
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: the pudding.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I think really digging in, like sitting with
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 3: this for you know, when you have some downtime, just
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 3: sitting with the idea, like what makes someone successful, what
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 3: makes me successful?
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 5: What I'm doing? It sounds like you are really educated.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 3: You're like nursing and you know that in itself maud
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 3: respect like I could never never.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: Right' I'm a social worker. I look up to you.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: And human resources, which you know is the direction they're
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: going in a specialized human resources having that high EQ
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: as well, you know, which your partners may really like.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: To me, that's always seemed to be the most appealing
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: part of the polyamory life. Like I appreciate the writer
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: saying I'm built this way, and I think there's a
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: lot of people that are not built that way, but
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: they do appreciate that. It's like, look, I enjoy a
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: diverse social portfolio. I don't want ten of the same friend.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: I think I can see that argument romantically as well,
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: of like I really enjoy pair bonding with certain people
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: in my life and sharing certain aspects of a relationship
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: with that person that I just can't have with somebody else. Right,
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of people get drawn into like the
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: swinger lifestyle, the poly lifestyle from that entire road, and
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: I think that's really redemptive to your argument here, writer,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: because it's like, okay, there, Yeah, they are already four
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: fucking engineers. They don't need a fifth one. No, like
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: they want you. You're different than them, and they value that.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: I think this kind of goes to speaking to just
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: like what's the evidence tell you? You know, because there's
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of It kind of reminds me of like
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: when somebody is talking about what something is worth. You know,
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: you may say like, oh, this is it's not worth that,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: it's just not worth that much money, But the ultimate
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: worth of an object is what someone's willing to spend
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: on it, right, Right, And so I may feel that
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: this house is not worth whatever they've got it, you know,
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: on the.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: Market for it's about what my house is worth. But
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: it's my house, Like.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: If it sells at that amount, that's what it's worth, right,
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: you know worth. And so I think you kind of
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: have to look at, well, what's you know what, what's
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: the result? What are you getting as a result. The
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: result is that you currently have somebody who's been with
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: you for eighteen years now crab okay, So that speaks
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: volumes to the worth. So I think there's a lot
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: of evidence going in the other direction here too. I
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: think what happens is you get very insecure and you
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: stop looking at evidence and you start looking at your
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: feelings as being evidence.
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, your feelings aren't facts, right, But I think that
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: that's one of the things that's really fascinating about this,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: Like the idea that Mike is going to choose. I mean,
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: I understand the fear that and I think that this
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: is a valid fear, like that Mike's wife could veto
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: Kate that's probably fair, right, Like that's probably part of
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: the agreements of Polly is like, Okay, if you and
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: your your married partner you have children with, decide you're
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: going to enter into a poly arrangement with others, you
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: probably have some fundamental rules, and one of those rules
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: could be us first, family first, and other relationships are
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: allowed to exist America or oh you know what, it
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: could be a poly relationship where they where they they
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: probably first, Okay, okay, yeah, Mappa, yeah, okay. It could
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: be red, white, and blue, a lot more white, a
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: lot more white, the red and the blue. No, but
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: this is a this is a really good point that like, yeah,
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, Mike's wife could veto Kate because it's like, hey,
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: I think that Kate is toxic to our relationship or
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: unsafe around our children, or is being unsafe in other areas,
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: and like I no longer feel that our relationship should
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: be bonded to Kate, And like that's fair, right, but
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna be because, uh, you know,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: Mike's wife says, we need you to date and be
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: with somebody just like me. Yeah. I could see Mike
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: being like, so what the fuck are we doing this for? Right?
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: I fucking clone you and go do like what I got.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't the point, Like the point wasn't boy,
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: I need more of you than those do fucking monogamy
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: the whole time. The point was, Yeah, if you always
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: are eating one thing that's your favorite meal, that's great.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: But like it's also if you enjoy other things, and
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: we all agree that that's okay for me to do.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: As long as they don't abandon, you know, this relationship,
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: then great. We found our entrance into bali, right, and
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: like that's what you are, Kate. You are different and
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: they value you because you are different. Yes, girl, get
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: some more rhino horn, Get a tar, get yourself a tarp,
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: gets yourself an it, go get you that, go get
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: the fucking hook. That's not the episode title.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: Oh oh yeah, oh absolutely, it's gonna be sex sex
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: crave pirate or something to that effect.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 5: Always have a tar.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna take quick break in the are wrapping
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: up the show. You are still, for whatever fucking reason,
• 1:32:19
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• 1:32:22
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  Speaker 1: That's all the time again for this week session. I
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: want to think our Landlords U s J in the
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: Ruckus scene it quite no, no.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 5: Sorry, it's oh yeah, what's our new names?
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: Well, our landlords? Oh yeah, so what's ours?
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: Therah? Oh no, scoop support, text Scoop Pards game there
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: it is, yes, thank you.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 5: This is my place now.
• 1:35:18
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• 1:35:20
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• 1:35:23
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• 1:35:42
  Speaker 4: I'm neck Tangement, I'm Whitney, I'm Jim.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: Thanks for your appointment.
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 5: Costume.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: He fuck yeah, sex starve pire.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, real quick, I brought some Halloween candy. Oh, I've
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: got a bone to pick with Snickers.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: All right, whoa, whoa, whoa. You can't say that, that's
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: their word. But no, open this up, all right. Tell
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: me if something looks off to you. These are fun
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: size Snickers. They seem smaller, thank you very much.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 3: These are sizes smaller than Yeah, but the size they
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 3: were thicker they were.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: Before. Yes, that was one.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm not crazy because I looked at this
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: as like this is some bullshit square yeah, because it
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: it definitely costs the same. Actually, I think it costs
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: a little bit more this year.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: Smaller. I think we wouldn't notice. Nice try who makes these?
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: So actually this was in the news, and so Mars
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: is making Eminem's now with anything but chocolate because there
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: was a bad cocoa bean harvest and so the price
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: of chocolate has skyrocketed. So that's why these are smaller
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: and and why a bunch of like they're trying out
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: all these new flavors of them. And here's the thing.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: Even when they get cocoa back, this not they're not
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: bringing it.
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: Back and they're not. It's just like the airline bags.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: Remember that ship. It was like gas prices are high,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: so we're gonna charge for bags. We're all, okay, stop,
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: Like everything.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 3: With COVID, they're like, well we got to do this now,
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 3: like now we're never going to reopen.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: We finally just got back or got around to, uh,
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: you don't have to take your shoes off to get
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: on planes anymore.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: A finally don't take your shoes off. Yeah, the man.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: Once the man went to take it away, he never
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: give it back. Fuck you, Snickers, goodbye Snickers.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: Get a tarp.