Latest / Bloomberg Intelligence / BI Weekend: Target, Home Depot, TJX Earnings

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BI Weekend: Target, Home Depot, TJX Earnings · Bloomberg Intelligence

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Speaker 2: Today, well look at why home improvement has been resilient
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Speaker 2: at the retailer.
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Speaker 3: Home depot, and we'll discuss why the tech giant Apple
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Speaker 3: still hasn't managed to crack AI.
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Speaker 2: But first we begin with earnings from the retailer Targets.
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Speaker 3: This week, Target reported sales that dropped in the first quarter,
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Speaker 3: and the company also cut at sales forecast for the year.
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Speaker 2: Target sited inclining consumer spending along with the impact of
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Speaker 2: tariffs and boycotts.
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Speaker 3: Target shares fell after the report and raise some questions
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Speaker 3: over the company's ability to recapture growth after two years
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Speaker 3: of choppy results.
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Speaker 2: For more, we were joined by Jennifer Bartashi's Bloomberg Intelligence
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Speaker 2: senior analyst Retail, Stables and packaged Food.
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Speaker 3: We first asked Jennifer if she was surprised by the results.
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Speaker 4: None of this really was a surprise. It's really about
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Speaker 4: the degree to which it was a surprise. So sales
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Speaker 4: came in softer than expected, profit was a little softer
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Speaker 4: than expected, And it's just I think people are waiting
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Speaker 4: for Target to say how they're going to fix it.
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Speaker 4: And you know, they came out talking about a new office,
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Speaker 4: you know, to accelerate their plans. But I think people
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Speaker 4: are just waiting for something tangible that they can really
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Speaker 4: hold the company accountable for to reignite growth in the
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Speaker 4: in what they're trying to do.
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Speaker 2: What does Target need to do specifically, because it seems
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Speaker 2: like I don't know it just every time I've walk
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Speaker 2: into a Target, it's lots of people doing stuff. The
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Speaker 2: shelves are in good shape. What do they need to
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Speaker 2: do well?
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Speaker 4: A lot of it is continuing what they've started, which
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Speaker 4: is improving their merchandise mix. You know, Target does best
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Speaker 4: when their assortment is new, it's fresh, it's relevant to people,
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Speaker 4: and they've made good strides in that area. But those
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Speaker 4: types of changes take time for consumers to see and
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Speaker 4: to start to embrace, and it's just a hard environment
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Speaker 4: where people are still being a little bit conservative for
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Speaker 4: those changes to really create some momentum in the business.
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Speaker 3: So where are they with the pricing stuff in terms
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Speaker 3: of their inventory, in terms of tariffs, in terms of
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Speaker 3: where they source their material.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, so from a pricing perspective, you know, when people
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Speaker 4: look at value, price is one of the first things
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Speaker 4: they look at. They're fairly priced competitive, and we've seen
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Speaker 4: an uptick in the number of promotions that they're doing,
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Speaker 4: so you know, buy forty dollars of these kinds of
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Speaker 4: essentials and get a five dollars gift card. They're doing
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Speaker 4: a lot more of that kind of promotion to pull
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Speaker 4: people in. But one of the issues is that they
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Speaker 4: talk today about inventory and having to you know, adjust
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Speaker 4: and right size their inventory. And that's a little bit
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Speaker 4: concerning because that's been a topic that has It's not
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Speaker 4: new for Target, It's come up a couple of times
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Speaker 4: in the past few years. And so the fact that
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Speaker 4: they are expecting, you know, some inventory adjustments and markdowns
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Speaker 4: to weigh on margins and profit you know, for the
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Speaker 4: next quarter, is a little bit concerning that they still
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Speaker 4: haven't quite figured out how they're going to navigate that, Jen.
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Speaker 2: I know Walmart said on there recently that they would
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Speaker 2: pass along probably some of their terror related cost increases
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Speaker 2: to consumers, and then President Trump came out pretty publicly
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Speaker 2: against that. What is Target saying about their ability to
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Speaker 2: take whatever price increases cost increases may come about through tariffs,
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Speaker 2: either in their margin or passing it along to consumers.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a definitely a good topic, Paul, And you
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Speaker 4: know what they said was that price increases would be
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Speaker 4: the last resort, but they didn't count them out. Instead,
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Speaker 4: they focused on the tactics that he needs to try
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Speaker 4: to mitigate some of the some of the pressure from tariffs.
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Speaker 4: They're the same levers that every company is pulling. It's
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Speaker 4: using your scale, it's working with your suppliers, it's trying
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Speaker 4: to negotiate better you know, you know, better sourcing and
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Speaker 4: better prices on the on the purchasing side. So you know,
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Speaker 4: Target is certainly able to offset some of the some
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Speaker 4: of the cost of tariffs, but it would be surprising
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Speaker 4: if they can offset all of it. And and ultimately
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Speaker 4: they're most likely going to have to be some selective
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Speaker 4: price increases that get pushed through.
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Speaker 3: Oh what are there? What's their inventory like in terms
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Speaker 3: of that part and how that filters into their pricing.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, so inventory has actually been getting a little bit
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Speaker 4: better in terms of on shelf availability and tracking through
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Speaker 4: the supply chain. It's just I think because they skew
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Speaker 4: so much more to discretionary. If there's like, for example,
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Speaker 4: in first quarter, we had some very unseasonably cold weather
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Speaker 4: that impact apparel sales, That impacts a lot of those things.
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Speaker 4: So you know that that increases markdowns. Hopefully that's a
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Speaker 4: transitory type of thing. But they are talking about getting
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Speaker 4: their inventory right sized as they head into back to
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Speaker 4: school and the holiday season.
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Speaker 2: And Jen the stock seems cheap to me? Is it
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Speaker 2: cheap on a historical basis? Or how are people thinking
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Speaker 2: about valuation?
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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's definitely, you know, at a discount from
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Speaker 4: it from a historical, you know, valuation perspective. But I
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Speaker 4: think part of the part of the reason that it
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Speaker 4: is where it is is that for a long time,
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Speaker 4: what has differentiated Target was their private label selection, their
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Speaker 4: own brands things that the quality of those brands where
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Speaker 4: people could get value and style at a really compelling price.
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Speaker 4: In the last couple of years, a lot of their competitors,
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Speaker 4: whether you're talking about Walmart or Cohal's or or or
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Speaker 4: companies like that, have invested in their private label. They've
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Speaker 4: improved the quality, They've they've become a little bit more
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Speaker 4: fashion forward, and that's that erodes the differentiation that it
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Speaker 4: has always enjoyed and part of what has catapulted their
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Speaker 4: success in recent years. So until Target gets that newness
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Speaker 4: and that assortment readjusted again to be a leader and
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Speaker 4: a differentiator, you may see that kind of valuation discount
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Speaker 4: persist our.
6:17
Speaker 2: Thanks to Jen Bartashi's Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Retail Analyst.
6:20
Speaker 3: Each week we look at research from Bloomberg n EF
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Speaker 3: previously known as New Energy Finance. They're the team at
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Speaker 3: Bloomberg the tracks and analyzes the energy transition from commodities
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Speaker 3: to power, transport, industries, buildings, and agricultural sectors.
6:32
Speaker 2: This week we looked at how the cost of clean
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Speaker 2: energy technologies has changed. Solar and wind have been the
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Speaker 2: most competitive source of new power for a few years.
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Speaker 3: Now and for more. We are joined by Amar vasdev
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Speaker 3: v an EF, a lead levelized cost expert. We first
6:47
Speaker 3: asked AMR to break down his research and what his
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Speaker 3: team actually does.
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Speaker 5: Effectively. We collect cost data on recently finance power projects
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Speaker 5: and we sum that up into a metric that we
6:57
Speaker 5: call the levetized cost of electricity. And in short, what
7:01
Speaker 5: that is is it tells us what the long term
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Speaker 5: off take price is that project developer needs to hit
7:08
Speaker 5: their IRR, recoup all of their costs and of course
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Speaker 5: pay back the pay the taxes.
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Speaker 2: So, Amara, here's what I don't think people understand, and
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Speaker 2: I did not understand it until recently, that renewables are
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Speaker 2: the cheapest source to meet new demand almost everywhere. Talk
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Speaker 2: to us about that.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, So the cost reductions in renewable technology, so specifically
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Speaker 5: wind and solar, have been quite remarkable over the last
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Speaker 5: decade or so. And so when we look at those
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Speaker 5: projects that were financed last year and we estimate those costs.
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Speaker 5: We find that either wind or soda is out competing
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Speaker 5: either coal or gas in markets that are equivalent to
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Speaker 5: two thirds of global power generation, so that includes China,
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Speaker 5: includes most of Europe as well.
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Speaker 3: But we take into a the intermittent power issue for
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Speaker 3: wind and solar and how does that change the cause
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Speaker 3: profile Like it might be cheaper to build a wind
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Speaker 3: a wind farm than a billion nuclear plant, but the
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Speaker 3: intermittent power of it all is an issue.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, that is definitely right. It is a it is
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Speaker 5: a problem with renewables that is often cited. But there
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Speaker 5: are supporting technologies for supporting a grid that is dominated
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Speaker 5: by wind and soda, and that would be battery storage
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Speaker 5: for example. And so if we look last year alone,
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Speaker 5: the cost of the typical projects fell by one third
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Speaker 5: and out to twenty thirty five, we estimate that the
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Speaker 5: cost of battery storage projects for by fifty percent. So
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Speaker 5: there are supporting technologies that pair with wind and soda,
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Speaker 5: and we also model we look at these, we break
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Speaker 5: them down, and we look at the view out of
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Speaker 5: twenty fifty how different power markets are likely to change.
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Speaker 5: And just to put that in context, when we take
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Speaker 5: that system view, we see that there are really strong
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Speaker 5: long term fundamentals for renewables. So today wind and soda
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Speaker 5: around eight percent of generation and that increases to sixty
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Speaker 5: percent in our modeling by twenty fifty. And at the
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Speaker 5: same time, the flip side of that is with fossil
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Speaker 5: few assets, so coal and gas plants today they're at
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Speaker 5: sixty percent. By twenty to fifty they go down to
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Speaker 5: twenty five percent. And what they do is they kind
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Speaker 5: of operate in a space where they support wind and
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Speaker 5: soda as well as battery storage.
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Speaker 2: So thinking just in the near term, what do high
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Speaker 2: tariffs and maybe possible cuts to tax credits, what does
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Speaker 2: that mean for this transition? Does it slow it down materially? Possibly?
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Speaker 5: Yeah, it is a really interesting question, and it's as
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Speaker 5: you know, it's moving very quickly. So our team in
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Speaker 5: the US are really attracting this very very closely. And
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Speaker 5: what we can say is that the policy and tariff
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Speaker 5: uncertainty is posing a challenge for business confidence. It kind
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Speaker 5: of impacts the willingness and investor appetite. But we do
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Speaker 5: see that there is resilient demand that deployment stays resilient
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Speaker 5: over the next ten years or so, because we do
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Speaker 5: see increased electricity demand from AI needs from manufacturing as well,
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Speaker 5: and what tends to be the cheapest source of electricity
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Speaker 5: is wind and soda, so there is resilient deployment. We
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Speaker 5: did model a scenario where if tax if tax credits
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Speaker 5: were cut, the amount of wind and soda being added
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Speaker 5: over the next ten years would reduce by around seven
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Speaker 5: teen percent or so. So there is there is a
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Speaker 5: material impact. But if we're adding new power to the
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Speaker 5: if we're adding new supply to the grid, then it
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Speaker 5: would tend to come from wind and sola.
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Speaker 3: What about geothermal? The administration is definitely positive on geothermal.
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Speaker 3: In speaking with the Energy Secretary here, he speaks a
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Speaker 3: lot about that as well as clean coal. What's the
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Speaker 3: cost profile like for geothermal?
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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's hard for me to comment on that. I
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Speaker 5: think the configuration of geothermal changes significantly, but there have
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Speaker 5: been developments recently, and I suppose with the pairing with
11:37
Speaker 5: the kind of coupling with oil and gas experience with geothermal,
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Speaker 5: there's a lot of overlap there on the specific costs.
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Speaker 2: I couldn't comment on our Thanks to amar a Vestev
11:46
Speaker 2: b n EF lead levelized cost Expert.
11:49
Speaker 3: Coming up, We're going to look at why cancer risks
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Speaker 3: are being linked to a popular over the counter drug.
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12:24
Speaker 3: We move next to news from the world's largest home
12:26
Speaker 3: improvement retailer, Home Depot.
12:28
Speaker 2: This week, Home Depot maintained its guidance for their fiscal
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Speaker 2: year as US sales ticked up.
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Speaker 3: The company said consumers are deferring larger projects due to
12:35
Speaker 3: the raid environment, but are still taking on smaller home projects.
12:38
Speaker 2: For more. We were joined by Drew Redding, Bloomberg Intelligence
12:41
Speaker 2: US home building analysts.
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Speaker 3: We first asked Drew for his take on my home
12:44
Speaker 3: improvement has been so resilient at home Depot.
12:47
Speaker 6: One of the reasons why Home Improvement and Hope Depot
12:49
Speaker 6: have been so resilient is because a large portion of
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Speaker 6: the industry has to do with that maintenance and repair
12:55
Speaker 6: oriented work. So I think that's where they're seeing a
12:57
Speaker 6: lot of the lift now. It's homeowners are taking care
13:01
Speaker 6: of the things that they need to just to maintain
13:03
Speaker 6: their home. This really isn't no, it's been a couple
13:05
Speaker 6: of quarters now where we've heard from them that big
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Speaker 6: ticket discretionary categories have been relatively weaker. So think about
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Speaker 6: things like kitchenry models, bathroom models, flooring projects. These are
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Speaker 6: things that tend to be financed by the consumer, and
13:19
Speaker 6: with rates as high as they are right now, it's
13:21
Speaker 6: just become a little bit prohibitive for them to undertake
13:24
Speaker 6: those projects. So I think in order to see more
13:27
Speaker 6: robust growth out of these categories, which is really the
13:29
Speaker 6: missing piece of the story, we need to see rates
13:32
Speaker 6: start to come back down a little bit.
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Speaker 2: How about tires. Is that impacting the costs of their
13:38
Speaker 2: goods like getting lumber from Canada, for example.
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Speaker 6: So we think Home Depot's pretty well positioned from a
13:44
Speaker 6: tariff perspective. They source about fifty percent of the products
13:47
Speaker 6: they sell from inside the US, and you know, like
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Speaker 6: a lot of other retailers, over the last decade, they've
13:52
Speaker 6: done a great job in diversifying their supply chain. They
13:55
Speaker 6: actually said that over the next twelve months, no single
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Speaker 6: country outside of the US is going to account for
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Speaker 6: more than ten percent of their product purchases. So the
14:05
Speaker 6: fact that they're diversifying their supply chain should help with costs.
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Speaker 6: At the same time, given their scale the largest home
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Speaker 6: improvement retailer, they'll have the ability to push back on
14:13
Speaker 6: some of their suppliers in terms of cost. Now, what
14:16
Speaker 6: they said is that they're looking to generally maintain their prices,
14:21
Speaker 6: so I think people took that as a positive. You
14:24
Speaker 6: have to remember Home Depot sales about thirty thousand to
14:26
Speaker 6: forty thousand products in their store. So when they talk
14:29
Speaker 6: about pricing, they take a portfolio approach. So you may
14:32
Speaker 6: not see them raise the price on a particular item
14:35
Speaker 6: that was tariffed, but they look at the elasticities of
14:37
Speaker 6: their various products and they'll take prices they need to
14:40
Speaker 6: where they can, gotcha.
14:43
Speaker 3: So they're going to manage that margin. So they're not
14:46
Speaker 3: going to sacrifice margin then.
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Speaker 6: So they actually guided to an operating margin pretty much
14:51
Speaker 6: in line with what they were looking for at the
14:54
Speaker 6: end of last quarter. There are a couple puts in takes.
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Speaker 6: They're doing better on shrinks, so they're managing their re
15:00
Speaker 6: tell theft a little better, which is always a positive.
15:04
Speaker 6: So they're also you know, getting some more leverage from productivity.
15:08
Speaker 6: So you know, I think pricing is going to be
15:10
Speaker 6: a component of it, but they also have other levers
15:12
Speaker 6: within the business that are going to help to maintain
15:14
Speaker 6: their margins, you know, where they expected them.
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Speaker 2: Just what's home Depot do with the number of stores?
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Speaker 2: Have they added stores? Are they fully kind of where
15:23
Speaker 2: they want to be? What's the store count story?
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Speaker 6: Yeah, So interestingly, Home Depot over the last year has
15:29
Speaker 6: actually returned to store growth, which is something we haven't
15:31
Speaker 6: seen from them in a very long time. They kind
15:34
Speaker 6: of have had the established footprint in the US, but
15:37
Speaker 6: as the business has grown so much, as they've grown
15:40
Speaker 6: their pro business, they've started to add new stores in
15:43
Speaker 6: markets where you know, populations are growing or where they
15:46
Speaker 6: want to kind of take some of the pressure off
15:48
Speaker 6: the existing store base to look to drive some additional productivity.
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Speaker 6: So this year they're adding about thirteen new stores. They're
15:55
Speaker 6: going to do that. I think their their plan was
15:57
Speaker 6: about eighty over a five year period, So the next
16:00
Speaker 6: couple of years they'll continue to add.
16:01
Speaker 2: To you to our thanks, did you're writing, Bloomberg Intelligence,
16:04
Speaker 2: US homebuilding analyst.
16:05
Speaker 3: We move next to earnings from the off price retailer TJX.
16:08
Speaker 2: TJX reported a gross margin shortfall for its first quarter
16:11
Speaker 2: and issued for your guidance that fell short expectations.
16:15
Speaker 3: However, the company said it's global network of vendors and
16:17
Speaker 3: flexibility on prices will help it manage future tariff pressures.
16:21
Speaker 2: For more, we were joined by Mary Ross Gilbert, Bloomberg Intelligence,
16:24
Speaker 2: senior equity analysts covering retail.
16:26
Speaker 3: We first asked Mary for her key takeaways from tjx
16:28
Speaker 3: as results.
16:29
Speaker 7: So, when I look at the results, they beat for
16:33
Speaker 7: the quarter. They beat on the top line, you know,
16:36
Speaker 7: for total sales, and they came in line on comp
16:38
Speaker 7: sales comp sales being up three percent, and that was
16:41
Speaker 7: at the high end of their guidance. The real issue,
16:44
Speaker 7: I think is the forward guidance. So when you look
16:47
Speaker 7: at the second quarter, analysts were looking for EPs of
16:51
Speaker 7: about a dollar four and the top end of their guidance,
16:56
Speaker 7: it's ninety seven cents to a dollar, and so I
16:59
Speaker 7: think there's a disappointment there. But frankly, this management team
17:03
Speaker 7: really executes. They tend to provide conservative guidance, So we
17:07
Speaker 7: really view this as whatever guidance they put out there,
17:11
Speaker 7: we see upside to it. They certainly have seen a
17:14
Speaker 7: strong start to the second quarter concerns around tariffs. They're
17:19
Speaker 7: saying that they can mostly mitigate most of the impact
17:23
Speaker 7: when it comes to directly sourced merchandise. And then with
17:27
Speaker 7: regard to indirectly sourced merchandise, this is where they're buying overstocks.
17:32
Speaker 7: They'll be able to negotiate. They see plenty of availability
17:37
Speaker 7: and so they see a lot of opportunity in terms
17:40
Speaker 7: of the buying there, and they'll make sure that they
17:42
Speaker 7: always maintain that gap, and that gap being twenty to
17:46
Speaker 7: sixty percent versus what you'd see a department in specialty store.
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Speaker 3: Oh I know, yes, I was telling these guys that
17:53
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm single handedly keeping home Goods in business,
17:55
Speaker 3: having to furnish a house.
17:58
Speaker 2: Who is the TJX consumer other than Alex Deal and
18:02
Speaker 2: Lisa MATTEI, who I know? Who is that consumer? Who
18:05
Speaker 2: is that customer and what's the company saying about their
18:07
Speaker 2: their customer.
18:08
Speaker 7: So Paul gg Max's customer, you know, Marmax and Home Goods,
18:14
Speaker 7: it spans from low income all the way up to
18:18
Speaker 7: high income. So within the Marmax you know, which is
18:22
Speaker 7: where you have TJ Max and Marshall's, they carry brands
18:25
Speaker 7: as high as Gucci, Fendy, Chloe, you name it, and
18:29
Speaker 7: we see a lot of that merchandise there. They have
18:32
Speaker 7: stores where you can walk in and you'll see these
18:35
Speaker 7: high end handbags and glass cases, just like you would
18:38
Speaker 7: in a department store where it's really tethered, and so
18:41
Speaker 7: they have that as well. But then they also have
18:44
Speaker 7: you know, more moderate brands like a Tommy hillfigure and
18:47
Speaker 7: a Calvin Klein or Juicy Couture, even you know, at
18:51
Speaker 7: a lower end there.
18:53
Speaker 8: So they're able to attract.
18:55
Speaker 7: All income levels and they know how to merchandise stores
19:00
Speaker 7: appropriately all around the country and actually all around the world,
19:04
Speaker 7: because we're seeing strength in all of their markets. And
19:09
Speaker 7: you raised a good point, Alex. I think you talked
19:11
Speaker 7: about home goods, and you're absolutely right. Home goods actually
19:15
Speaker 7: led the comps. They were up four percent and so
19:18
Speaker 7: when you look at the comps that were at Marmax,
19:21
Speaker 7: they were up two percent, so they definitely saw strength
19:24
Speaker 7: and home goods our.
19:25
Speaker 2: Thanks to Mary Ross, Gilbert Bloomberg Intelligence senior equitanaals covering retail.
19:29
Speaker 3: This week, we focused on the Bloomberg Big Take story
19:32
Speaker 3: titled Possible Cancer Health risks are lurking in a popular
19:35
Speaker 3: OTC drug and you can find it on Bloomberg dot
19:38
Speaker 3: com and in the terminal.
19:39
Speaker 2: The story looks at the dangers of a widely available
19:41
Speaker 2: drug for urinary tract infections that has never been formally
19:45
Speaker 2: approved by the US government, and it's not the only one.
19:48
Speaker 3: For more. We were joined by the story's author, Anna Edney,
19:50
Speaker 3: Bloomberg National healthcare reporter, and we first asked Anna to
19:53
Speaker 3: walk us through some of the over the counter drugs
19:55
Speaker 3: discussed in the story.
19:56
Speaker 9: Probably the most popular one, I think a lot of
20:00
Speaker 9: our listeners will recognize as Azo. It's an over the
20:04
Speaker 9: counter drugs, so you can go into most any store
20:08
Speaker 9: you know, Target, Walmart, anything like that, and and purchase it.
20:12
Speaker 9: You don't need a prescription. Your a stat is another brand,
20:16
Speaker 9: but all of these stores also make their own generic version,
20:21
Speaker 9: so it's something that is supposed to treat the pain
20:25
Speaker 9: with your airy tract infections. A lot of people seem
20:29
Speaker 9: to think it goes beyond that and it's actually curing
20:32
Speaker 9: their infections. So one of the issues being that, you know,
20:36
Speaker 9: people might need antibiotics, but instead they're they're using this.
20:41
Speaker 3: Now, what's the drug in it that is causing some
20:44
Speaker 3: of the issues and how do we know?
20:47
Speaker 9: Yeah, so this is the active ingredient in all of
20:51
Speaker 9: these drugs. It's what the generics will go by. It's
20:53
Speaker 9: called naso purdine. I may still be butchering that name,
20:59
Speaker 9: but it's an unapproved drug, which was really interesting to
21:04
Speaker 9: me and something sort of new to me even though
21:07
Speaker 9: I've covered these issues for a long time that I
21:09
Speaker 9: came across. What it means is the FDA has never
21:13
Speaker 9: formally approved this drug, so, you know, while millions of
21:17
Speaker 9: women are using it for decades that there's never been
21:22
Speaker 9: a true vetting of, you know, how this drug interacts
21:26
Speaker 9: with our bodies. One of the things that a National
21:30
Speaker 9: Cancer Institute's study found, this was back in nineteen seventy eight,
21:33
Speaker 9: is that it caused tumors to form in rats and mice.
21:39
Speaker 9: That's never been looked at in humans because it's never
21:42
Speaker 9: been this drug has never gone through clinical trials or
21:45
Speaker 9: anything like that.
21:47
Speaker 3: That is just that statement is so insane, And Paul,
21:51
Speaker 3: just me, I'll explain to you a little bit here.
21:53
Speaker 3: So if you have a UTI, it comes on really fast.
21:56
Speaker 3: And if you order to get medication from your doctor aginecologists,
21:59
Speaker 3: you have to go in so they can test it.
22:01
Speaker 3: And if you're in pain and you know what it
22:02
Speaker 3: is because as you've had it before, you just go
22:04
Speaker 3: to the store, pick it up and you feel better
22:06
Speaker 3: in twenty four hours. Like that's why these drugs are
22:08
Speaker 3: so popular and easy to access.
22:10
Speaker 2: And what I learned and a story, and they're not
22:13
Speaker 2: FDA approved. They are essentially grandfathered in. So if I'm
22:17
Speaker 2: walking down the aisle looking at you know, over the
22:19
Speaker 2: counter drugs, do I have any way of knowing what's
22:22
Speaker 2: been FDA approved and maybe what hasn't been.
22:26
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think that's a really good question. And there
22:29
Speaker 9: were multiple, you know, quotes out there from congressional testimony
22:33
Speaker 9: and other places where FDA staff members were talking about
22:38
Speaker 9: there's you know, there are many such grandfathered in kind
22:43
Speaker 9: of drugs, but the agency did not give me a list,
22:46
Speaker 9: wouldn't even tell me how many might be out there,
22:50
Speaker 9: But there is potentially you know this is this takes
22:54
Speaker 9: a little sleuth thing. It's not that easy to do
22:56
Speaker 9: in the drug store aisle. But there's a website that
22:59
Speaker 9: the National Institute of Health runs called Daily Med and
23:03
Speaker 9: people can search by drug there. I wouldn't say it's
23:06
Speaker 9: like the misuser friendly looking piece, but if you look
23:10
Speaker 9: for azo or you're a stat or Finazo, Piaroty in
23:12
Speaker 9: any of those, what will come up as kind of
23:14
Speaker 9: a disclaimer saying, you know, this hasn't been vetted by
23:17
Speaker 9: the Food and Drug Administration, its safety is not known,
23:20
Speaker 9: and that kind of gives you an indication. You can
23:22
Speaker 9: dive deeper into that data and you can actually see
23:25
Speaker 9: that it's unapproved, but just for the lay person at
23:28
Speaker 9: least with that disclaimer, that would give you a good
23:30
Speaker 9: idea at the top.
23:31
Speaker 3: So what happens then.
23:33
Speaker 8: I think that's a good question.
23:34
Speaker 9: So the FDA is they have a system where they're
23:38
Speaker 9: supposed to have vetted these kind of very old drugs
23:42
Speaker 9: and given them what's called a monograph. This is the
23:45
Speaker 9: agency's instruction book. Here's how this drug should be made,
23:48
Speaker 9: Here's how the dosing, what it should be, here's how
23:51
Speaker 9: it should be manufactured. They have not done that for
23:54
Speaker 9: FINASO piaroting. So it's possible that, you know, with this
23:59
Speaker 9: increased attention, that they could decide to look into that.
24:03
Speaker 9: There's you know, they asked in two thousand and three
24:06
Speaker 9: whether this drug should actually be prescription only, just given
24:10
Speaker 9: the risks and that people don't often follow directions on
24:15
Speaker 9: OTC drugs. You know, you're only supposed to take this
24:18
Speaker 9: for two days, and you're not supposed to take it
24:20
Speaker 9: all the time. There are companies, particularly online retailers, that
24:26
Speaker 9: are really pushing this drug on women and girls, kind
24:28
Speaker 9: of just to have on hand all the time.
24:30
Speaker 2: Our thanks to an Ednie Bloomberg national healthcare reporter.
24:34
Speaker 3: Coming up on the program, we're going to look at
24:35
Speaker 3: how diversity, equity and Inclusion DEI efforts have changed at
24:40
Speaker 3: US companies.
24:40
Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg Intelligence on Bloomberg Radio, providing in
24:43
Speaker 2: depth research and data on two thousand companies and one
24:45
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty industries. You can access Bloomberg Intelligence via
24:48
Speaker 2: bi go on the terminal.
24:49
Speaker 3: I'm Paul Sweeney and a Malex Steel, and this is Bloomberg.
25:00
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
25:04
Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarclay, and Android Auto
25:07
Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you
25:10
Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
25:14
Speaker 3: This week, we focus on a Bloomberg Big Take story
25:16
Speaker 3: titled Apple Spending Billions and still has it managed to
25:20
Speaker 3: crack AI? You can find it on Bloomberg dot Com
25:22
Speaker 3: and the Terminal.
25:23
Speaker 2: The story looks at Apple's continued failures to get artificial
25:25
Speaker 2: intelligence right, and it discusses how this threatens everything from
25:29
Speaker 2: the iPhone's dominance to plans for robots and other products.
25:32
Speaker 3: For more, We are joined by the stories author Mark German,
25:35
Speaker 3: Bloomberg News Managing editor for Global Consumer Tech.
25:37
Speaker 2: First, ask Mark about what's going on at Coopertino as
25:40
Speaker 2: it relates to AI.
25:42
Speaker 10: Well, philosophical differences, mismanagement and the biggest thing is they
25:47
Speaker 10: were blindsided when generative AI with chat, GPT and GitHub
25:51
Speaker 10: launched back in twenty twenty two. November twenty twenty two.
25:54
Speaker 10: I'm told Apple Intelligence wasn't even an idea back then. Why, well,
25:59
Speaker 10: they missed the boat.
26:00
Speaker 3: But how I mean? I mean, I don't understand.
26:03
Speaker 10: Yeah, well, clearly there was philosophical disagreement, in philosophical disinterest
26:08
Speaker 10: in the topic of artificial intelligence. I write about how
26:10
Speaker 10: Craig freederighi, Apple's senior VP of software engineering, doesn't really
26:14
Speaker 10: believe in these multi billion dollar projects. He tends to
26:19
Speaker 10: try to shut down or steer away from projects of
26:21
Speaker 10: that sort, and AI is something of that nature. AI
26:24
Speaker 10: is quite a bit messy. They're known for the very
26:27
Speaker 10: intricate and well designed user experiences. AI sometimes with hallucinations
26:31
Speaker 10: can take away from that. But I think they didn't
26:34
Speaker 10: think it was going to be as big of a
26:35
Speaker 10: thing as it became today. A lot of it fell
26:37
Speaker 10: on deaf years years ago, I'm told. But really, this
26:40
Speaker 10: is a company that's known for updating their operating systems
26:43
Speaker 10: once a year. It's known as a company that focuses
26:47
Speaker 10: on the minutia, and they missed the big picture here
26:50
Speaker 10: with artificial intelligence, and it really is a shame. You know,
26:54
Speaker 10: the big picture here isn't the AI capabilities of its
26:57
Speaker 10: devices today. The big picture today is the AI capability
27:01
Speaker 10: of future hardware. If you don't have the core technology,
27:04
Speaker 10: the AI ready to go at a deep level, how
27:06
Speaker 10: are you going to develop products like humanoid robots, smart glasses,
27:11
Speaker 10: watches in AirPods with depth sens and cameras for AI purposes.
27:15
Speaker 10: Can't do any of that if you don't have that technology.
27:18
Speaker 10: So they need to seriously turn this thing around quickly
27:21
Speaker 10: or they're going to be in big trouble. This is
27:24
Speaker 10: as core technology as the touchscreen.
27:28
Speaker 8: Wow.
27:29
Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, how many words is this story?
27:31
Speaker 9: Dude?
27:31
Speaker 10: Six thousand?
27:32
Speaker 9: Yeah?
27:32
Speaker 2: This is a long, well that story, folks. So if
27:36
Speaker 2: you wouldn't get smart on AI and Apple, you got
27:38
Speaker 2: to read the story. It's in the Bloomberg Business Week,
27:40
Speaker 2: It's on the terminal. I'm sure it's everywhere else as well.
27:43
Speaker 6: Mark.
27:43
Speaker 2: What can they do if I'm an investor? That's the
27:47
Speaker 2: only question I have for Tim Cook. Can you guys
27:50
Speaker 2: catch up and get some of that AI pixie dusk
27:52
Speaker 2: in your stock?
27:53
Speaker 10: Yes, they need to make acquisitions and they need to
27:56
Speaker 10: up the percentage of that R and D budget tied
28:00
Speaker 10: to AI. They need to up that percentage. They need
28:02
Speaker 10: to allocate more of their hires to AI as well.
28:05
Speaker 10: So they need to go big or go home on this.
28:07
Speaker 2: And I think do they know that? Do you think?
28:09
Speaker 6: Yeah?
28:10
Speaker 10: Of course they know that.
28:10
Speaker 3: Okay, how do they go big?
28:13
Speaker 10: You got to spend more money. AI is really one
28:16
Speaker 10: of the only things that you can buy your way
28:19
Speaker 10: into when it comes to this technology, right, you can
28:22
Speaker 10: buy your way into it. You just need to throw
28:24
Speaker 10: billions and billions at AI training. They need to make
28:27
Speaker 10: probably some tweaks to their privacy policy. Right, they have
28:29
Speaker 10: so many devices, They have more devices than anyone else
28:32
Speaker 10: as a single brand of a hardware company, of any
28:34
Speaker 10: company in the entire world, in the history of the world.
28:36
Speaker 10: But they don't leverage that because of their privacy stands.
28:39
Speaker 10: So maybe make some tweaks there to be able to
28:41
Speaker 10: collect some more data, maybe figure out a way to
28:44
Speaker 10: convince people to give up some of their data for
28:46
Speaker 10: this purpose. And I think that could go a long
28:49
Speaker 10: way for them. So spending money collecting more data.
28:52
Speaker 2: Is there somebody out there that they could buy, should buy,
28:55
Speaker 2: that would leapfrog them?
28:56
Speaker 3: Do you think they hate doing that though?
28:57
Speaker 2: Right?
28:58
Speaker 10: Well, the problem is this philosophical discussed. I would say
29:01
Speaker 10: to making these large acquisitions if I told you, I mean,
29:05
Speaker 10: you know this is true, so maybe you're not a
29:07
Speaker 10: good example. But if I said to someone who didn't
29:09
Speaker 10: know the company as well as you too. Would you
29:11
Speaker 10: believe me if I told you that Apple's biggest acquisition
29:13
Speaker 10: in the history of the company was three billion dollars?
29:16
Speaker 3: I actually believe that.
29:17
Speaker 2: Well, you believe that.
29:18
Speaker 10: Because you know that, But I think if you ask
29:20
Speaker 10: people who didn't know that, that would be completely unbelievable.
29:23
Speaker 6: Yep.
29:23
Speaker 10: They make these small acquisitions, and in addition to not
29:26
Speaker 10: wanting to spend big bucks on a company, they're really
29:30
Speaker 10: poor at integrating companies. The Beats integration, integrating all those
29:34
Speaker 10: engineers into the company, Disaster Intel, they bought the modem
29:38
Speaker 10: unit for a billion dollars back in nineteen Disaster. What
29:42
Speaker 10: is it going to feel as an AI person at
29:44
Speaker 10: Apple today if you're bringing if the company buys your
29:48
Speaker 10: replacement to bring them in, It's not going to be fun.
29:50
Speaker 10: There's enough turf wars as it is at Apple.
29:53
Speaker 3: So if they do then have to do it internally,
29:56
Speaker 3: they've still not done well at that.
29:58
Speaker 10: They've got to do both. They got to make the
29:59
Speaker 10: equ position, They got to just deal with that. They
30:01
Speaker 10: got to make their biggest acquisition ever, and it has
30:04
Speaker 10: to be for AI, maybe multiple acquisitions. They have to
30:07
Speaker 10: turn things up a notch internally as well. They're going
30:10
Speaker 10: to be making changes. I mean, there's so many philosophical disagreements.
30:14
Speaker 10: The biggest is about chatbots. When it comes to AI.
30:17
Speaker 10: They are allergic to AI chatbots. They don't like the technology.
30:20
Speaker 10: They don't think open ai has staying power. So you're yes,
30:24
Speaker 10: I know.
30:24
Speaker 3: I made a face when he said that. You're going to.
30:27
Speaker 10: See deeper integrations with other companies. You're going to see
30:29
Speaker 10: Google Gemini integration. I think next year you'll see Perplexity integration,
30:33
Speaker 10: maybe some Anthropic integration, maybe some Microsoft integration. But they're
30:38
Speaker 10: going to keep pushing and this is going to be
30:40
Speaker 10: a multi year thing. The biggest problems they were caught
30:42
Speaker 10: off guvernment's happened, so they had no head start on this.
30:45
Speaker 10: They're coming way from behind.
30:47
Speaker 2: Well yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing now that some people
30:51
Speaker 2: would say, hey, they're rarely first phones. Oh boy, when
30:54
Speaker 2: they decide to get into phones, they do it.
30:56
Speaker 10: That's the big difference. They were not first and they're
30:59
Speaker 10: the worst, all right.
31:00
Speaker 3: Thanks to Mark German and Bloomberg News Managing editor for
31:03
Speaker 3: Global Consumer Tech.
31:04
Speaker 2: This week we focused on a story on the Bloomberg
31:06
Speaker 2: terminal and Bloomberg dot Com entitled Despite Backlash, DEI Hasn't
31:11
Speaker 2: Disappeared at US companies.
31:12
Speaker 3: It discusses how Walmart and other large US companies have
31:15
Speaker 3: made modest changes to their diversity, equity and inclusion efforts,
31:18
Speaker 3: but most programs retained intact with minor adjustments.
31:22
Speaker 2: From where we were joined by the story's author, Simone Foxman,
31:25
Speaker 2: reporter for the Bloomberg News Equality Team. We first asked
31:28
Speaker 2: Simone to break down what she's learned recently about DEI
31:31
Speaker 2: at US companies.
31:32
Speaker 11: Well, Frankly, I've been talking to senior executives at large
31:36
Speaker 11: companies their corporate advisors ever since Trump's executive orders came
31:40
Speaker 11: out on January twenty first, and the message I've been
31:43
Speaker 11: hearing is no, Frankly, many of the programs that were
31:47
Speaker 11: part of diversity, equity and inclusion, many of which had
31:51
Speaker 11: frankly been around since long before the acronym even existed,
31:54
Speaker 11: they're still there. They've had some tweaks, maybe, and we
31:58
Speaker 11: can talk about exactly what those are, but they companies
32:01
Speaker 11: still believe that these underlying programs the ones that will
32:05
Speaker 11: help them recruit diverse talent as well as keep employees happy.
32:09
Speaker 8: These are largely there.
32:11
Speaker 11: And so even at companies that have sort of tried
32:13
Speaker 11: to send a message to their to perhapshaps the Trump administration,
32:18
Speaker 11: perhaps conservative activists, they're sending a very different message to
32:21
Speaker 11: their employees and investors.
32:23
Speaker 8: Well.
32:23
Speaker 2: I think what got a lot of people's attention, including myself,
32:25
Speaker 2: was when Walmart came out and said they were going
32:28
Speaker 2: to scale back DEA. I mean, it'sok, a monster employer
32:31
Speaker 2: all over the country. What did you find at Walmart? Oh?
32:35
Speaker 8: I mean, even when that announcement came out.
32:36
Speaker 11: Which was just before Black Friday, if you looked into
32:39
Speaker 11: the actual depth of what they were talking about, sunsetting
32:43
Speaker 11: the term DEI in favor of belonging.
32:47
Speaker 9: Ok.
32:47
Speaker 8: You know these aren't why.
32:50
Speaker 11: The huge enormous things a racial equity training that they
32:54
Speaker 11: had had in conjunction with a racial equity institute. It
32:57
Speaker 11: hadn't been offered since the spring of that year, and
33:01
Speaker 11: that was something that they said, Okay, we're not.
33:03
Speaker 8: Going to have this anymore.
33:05
Speaker 11: In fact, you know, Walmart still mentioning in its job
33:08
Speaker 11: postings that they want associates who are committed to diversity,
33:11
Speaker 11: equity inclusion. Spokesman told us that they're trying to phase
33:14
Speaker 11: out that language in posts, and some people call different names, but.
33:19
Speaker 3: At what are the names? Like, what are the kind
33:21
Speaker 3: of things that people are now sort of spinning out there?
33:24
Speaker 11: I mean it depends company by company. At Walmart, supplier
33:28
Speaker 11: diversity became supplier inclusion, for example, and there were some
33:33
Speaker 11: small tweaks to their supplier diversity program not just focusing
33:36
Speaker 11: on race and gender in terms of trying to find
33:39
Speaker 11: diverse suppliers.
33:39
Speaker 8: But they're absolutely.
33:40
Speaker 11: Still highlighting brands that are owned by women, Hispanic people,
33:46
Speaker 11: black people, it's lgbt Q, i A plus people.
33:50
Speaker 8: These in fact all have landing pages. So it clearly
33:54
Speaker 8: speaks to the idea that consumers want this.
33:56
Speaker 11: They're they're looking for brands, or Walmart believes they're looking
34:00
Speaker 11: for these brands. So maybe that's not somewhere where they
34:04
Speaker 11: really pull back, you know, Does that satisfy the Trump administration,
34:08
Speaker 11: conservative activists, et cetera.
34:11
Speaker 8: Maybe maybe not. I will say one thing as well that.
34:15
Speaker 11: Was very controversial. We're sort of demographic targets. For example,
34:19
Speaker 11: we want to double the number of women in senior
34:22
Speaker 11: management roles by twenty twenty six. That target that, you know,
34:26
Speaker 11: very specific target. Lawyers are advising companies that this sounds
34:31
Speaker 11: a little bit too much like a quota, so don't
34:33
Speaker 11: have that anymore, or if I guess the lawyers are saying,
34:37
Speaker 11: don't have that, you know at best, you know companies
34:40
Speaker 11: are not having that publicly because that is a little
34:44
Speaker 11: bit on that legal gray area not sorted out by
34:47
Speaker 11: the court, but something even a voluntary target that lawyers
34:50
Speaker 11: say you might want to stay away from that.
34:52
Speaker 2: But I sort remember, you know, talking about internships, mentor
34:56
Speaker 2: programs that help marginalize groups, and maybe you know talking
35:00
Speaker 2: about hiring and historically black colleges and universities. Is that
35:04
Speaker 2: under pressure or is that going to be changing?
35:06
Speaker 11: So those are actually two different things. One, mentorships and
35:10
Speaker 11: internship programs have now been opened to everyone, and this
35:16
Speaker 11: is sort of another thing that was recommended by lawyers.
35:20
Speaker 11: Came especially after the Students for Fair Admissions at Harvard
35:24
Speaker 11: decision HBCU scholarships. However, if you know recruiting from a
35:30
Speaker 11: specific HBCU historically black college and university, these are actually
35:35
Speaker 11: still getting a lot of interest from companies because there
35:38
Speaker 11: are something that.
35:39
Speaker 8: Is extremely legally above board.
35:42
Speaker 11: Anyone can apply to go to an HBCU and a
35:46
Speaker 11: company can choose to hire or to have a scholarship
35:49
Speaker 11: or internship program specifically targeted towards an HBCU, and because
35:54
Speaker 11: anyone can go there, that that means they're definitely not,
35:57
Speaker 11: you know, discriminating on race from a legal perspective, and frankly,
36:01
Speaker 11: you know, among conservative groups, this is a little bit
36:04
Speaker 11: of a bone.
36:06
Speaker 8: It's a little bit of a.
36:07
Speaker 11: Kind of subjective controversy because these are you know, HPCU
36:11
Speaker 11: programs are the ones that feel.
36:13
Speaker 8: Like DEI at its very.
36:16
Speaker 11: Heart, and frankly, they were the way to try and
36:19
Speaker 11: increase the pipeline of black managers and black engineers and
36:24
Speaker 11: technologists and et cetera. So we'll see if there's more
36:29
Speaker 11: at tax on those specific programs going forward. At at
36:33
Speaker 11: the moment, that seems to be a legal area where
36:35
Speaker 11: you know, many companies are doing.
36:36
Speaker 3: Do you get the sense from any companies that there
36:39
Speaker 3: is a worry about going too far in the other direction,
36:42
Speaker 3: like stripping out certain things that actually need to be
36:45
Speaker 3: thought of and done.
36:46
Speaker 11: One hundred percent absolutely, And you know, when you talk
36:50
Speaker 11: to a senior executive at an accounting firm was telling
36:54
Speaker 11: me they just need accountants. They cannot get accountants unless
36:58
Speaker 11: they are going to places where people have not been
37:01
Speaker 11: exposed to accounting to try and encourage them to work
37:04
Speaker 11: for them.
37:05
Speaker 8: They don't want to make young people unhappy.
37:07
Speaker 5: You know.
37:07
Speaker 11: These are affinity groups. Employee resource groups still exist in part.
37:12
Speaker 11: Maybe they're scrutiny of their spending, but they still exist
37:15
Speaker 11: a lot because this is stuff that makes people happy
37:17
Speaker 11: to come to work, and companies are very afraid because
37:20
Speaker 11: the actual employment law has not changed substantially. They are
37:25
Speaker 11: very afraid that they are going to see your traditional
37:28
Speaker 11: discrimination suits filed by women, people of color, LGBTQ, people,
37:33
Speaker 11: people with disabilities a right.
37:35
Speaker 3: Thanks to Simone Foxman, reporter for the Bloomberg News Equality Team.
37:39
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
37:43
Speaker 1: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday,
37:48
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37:51
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37:55
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38:04
Speaker 6: M