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He Asked 107 Billionaires How They Got Rich · The Empire of Wealth

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Today I'm talking to Harry Stebbings, the venture capitalist who's
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: interviewed more than 100 billionaires and uncovered exactly how they
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: got rich. Harry sat down with everyone from Sam Altman
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  Speaker 1: to Nick Staronsky to some of the richest founders on
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: the planet. And in this video, Harry's going to break
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: down the real ways billionaires build wealth, why you should
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: never chase money, and why failure to take the first
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  Speaker 1: step will keep you poor forever. So let's find out
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  Speaker 1: in the next 29 minutes what actually separates the people
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: who win from everyone else. Harry, thanks for being here.
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  Speaker 1: Off camera, we were just talking about like you're 19
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: years old and you made a million and a half pounds.
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  Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about that quickly before
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  Speaker 1: we get into all the lessons you're going to teach
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  Speaker 1: us today?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I very clearly remember my mother telling
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  Speaker 2: me that she had MS. And she'd had MS for
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  Speaker 2: about five years before, but the MS medication was like $ 750, 000.
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  Speaker 2: And I had this, you know, useless podcast at the time,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: which had no listeners, and we can get to the
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: importance of persistence. And I thought, gosh, how do I
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  Speaker 2: leverage this to make money to pay $ 750, 000 when I
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  Speaker 2: made no dollars? And I went up to my bedroom,
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  Speaker 2: I emailed 25 of the biggest CEOs in technology, and
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  Speaker 2: I said that their biggest competitors wanted to sponsor the podcast,
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  Speaker 2: but I was a fan of their product instead. Would
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  Speaker 2: they like to take it? I priced it at $ 95, 000 each.
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  Speaker 2: just under the 100 grand procurement budget. And I got
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  Speaker 2: 19 of them say yes, they would love to. And
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  Speaker 2: that was $ 1. 75 million in 24 hours.
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  Speaker 1: That's unbelievable. And a great lesson about, frankly, creating FOMO
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  Speaker 1: and sales. See, I think sales should be taught in schools.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I think sales, like anything, is just a process.
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  Speaker 2: School misses the two most important things, which is sales
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  Speaker 2: and public speaking. Totally agree with you. And also personality.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Everyone wants to work with someone who they like. And
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  Speaker 2: so at the end of every single email, I'd put, P.S.,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: I know that McKellen 75 is your favorite whiskey. I'd
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  Speaker 2: love to have one with you when you're next in London.
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  Speaker 2: The minute that you add that, you literally treble your
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  Speaker 2: chances of getting a response.
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  Speaker 1: It's effort, isn't it? I think just a little bit.
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  Speaker 1: The people I've hired that have messaged me on things
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  Speaker 1: like LinkedIn have actually understood what I'm trying to do
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  Speaker 1: and then brought some value in the actual message they
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  Speaker 1: send me. So they're not just like, hi, Sam, I'd
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  Speaker 1: like to work with you because I can learn a load,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: which is great. But also- That's just taking from me.
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  Speaker 1: It's such an important lesson in sales, isn't it? The detail,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: the attention to detail in everything is important.
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  Speaker 2: And so few do it. If you want to win,
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  Speaker 2: be a purple cow.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course.
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  Speaker 2: I love that whole thing. Just be different. It is
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  Speaker 2: so important.
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  Speaker 1: So you have interviewed, is it 107 billionaires?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So first of all, how did you manage to get
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  Speaker 1: 107 billionaires? Is it a similar thing, just persistence?
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  Speaker 2: Cold emailing. Doing good cold emails is a real art.
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  Speaker 2: They need to be short. They need to be concise.
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  Speaker 2: They need to have a clear ask and they need
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  Speaker 2: to be personal. And then you use social validity as
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  Speaker 2: your weapon, which is I just interviewed Richard Branson and
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  Speaker 2: I would love to have you on the show. Who
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  Speaker 2: is not wanting to be tied to the brand of
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  Speaker 2: Richard Branson in the same caliber? Very few entrepreneurs.
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  Speaker 1: It's like, okay.
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  Speaker 2: And so I use social validity as a weapon to
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  Speaker 2: encourage people that it was a good and strong environment
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  Speaker 2: that they wanted to be associated with.
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  Speaker 1: I had the same thing. When I started Fluid, I
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  Speaker 1: rang up a company. I started this agency. No one
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  Speaker 1: knew it. And I said, hi, I'm Fluid. I'd love
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  Speaker 1: to work with you. And they said, no, sorry, we're busy.
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  Speaker 1: So I ran back and said, hi, I'm working with
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  Speaker 1: CNN and I would love to work with you. And
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  Speaker 1: they went, oh, you're working with CNN.
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  Speaker 2: Sure.
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  Speaker 1: OK, come on in. So you just have to use
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  Speaker 1: that social proof. Some people don't like sales because they
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  Speaker 1: think it means sneaky. You don't have to be sneaky
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  Speaker 1: about it. I think car salesman kind of vibes is
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  Speaker 1: what people think sometimes.
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  Speaker 2: But at the end of every show, I would say
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  Speaker 2: to people, hey, who are three people that you think
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  Speaker 2: I should have on that would be fantastic? And the
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  Speaker 2: minute people commit to three more names, I would say, hey,
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  Speaker 2: if I send you an email that you can forward
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  Speaker 2: on to them, would you mind making the intro? When
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  Speaker 2: people commit to the three names, they're committed to making
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  Speaker 2: that intro. And so I create– you always want to
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  Speaker 2: create flywheels in any business. Right. where one leads to
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  Speaker 2: more success. And so with every show, I got three
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  Speaker 2: more intros.
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  Speaker 1: Now, you said earlier something else off-camera. I want people
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  Speaker 1: to know this. You raised $ 70 million on WhatsApp. Tell
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  Speaker 1: me a little bit about that. I mean, people might
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  Speaker 1: hear that and say, oh, just WhatsApp. How did you
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: do that? I think I know, but you share how
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  Speaker 1: you did it.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, when we fundraise, we raise from very rich individuals.
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  Speaker 2: We raise from institutions. And I would, in between sets
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  Speaker 2: in the gym, walk around in my two-minute breaks, and
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  Speaker 2: I would message individuals, this was. And say, hey, I'm
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  Speaker 2: going out to raise the new fund and I'd love
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  Speaker 2: to have you in. And they would come back with,
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  Speaker 2: you know, count me in for a million or count
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  Speaker 2: me in for two million. What people don't see is
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  Speaker 2: the 10 years of relationship building before that. But the
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  Speaker 2: most important lesson from that actually is I always want
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  Speaker 2: people off email. Get people off email. People want to
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  Speaker 2: work with people who they like. And so at the
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  Speaker 2: end of calls, meetings, I always say, Simon, I'm terrible
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  Speaker 2: at email. Let's jump to WhatsApp. And then at the
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  Speaker 2: weekend when I'm walking with my mom, I'll send a
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  Speaker 2: photo of me and mom eating a donut. And I'll say,
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  Speaker 2: God loved our meeting this week. Next time you've got
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  Speaker 2: to join us on our walk. People resonate with people.
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  Speaker 2: And so I build those relationships on WhatsApp, unlike anyone else.
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  Speaker 1: I think I've been building a relationship with you for
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  Speaker 1: 13 years. So we actually first met, people might not
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  Speaker 1: even know, my audience is quite young. You know, they
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  Speaker 1: might not know Periscope, right? I remember 13 years ago,
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  Speaker 1: I was hiking in Hong Kong. Periscope was one of the,
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  Speaker 1: was the first live product. And I was live in
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  Speaker 1: Hong Kong and you came on my Periscope and you
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  Speaker 1: stood out instantly. You were, oh, I love this Simon.
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  Speaker 1: I'm launching a podcast. I'd love to have you on.
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  Speaker 1: And I feel like for 13 years, I've been following
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  Speaker 1: you ever since. And your rise and what you've done
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  Speaker 1: has been an inspiration. Do you remember that?
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  Speaker 2: I do. I do actually. I mean, wow, it takes
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  Speaker 2: me back. I remember Periscope and Meerkat were the two
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  Speaker 2: live streaming products at the time. And so I absolutely
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  Speaker 2: do remember that. But God, that takes me back. I
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  Speaker 2: was so embarrassing in how I did so many things
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  Speaker 2: back then. I was so effusive with, you're the greatest
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  Speaker 2: entrepreneur I've ever met and da, da, da.
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  Speaker 1: You didn't say that to me. I don't remember that
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  Speaker 1: to be honest, but yeah.
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  Speaker 2: But the point of that is like people look at
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  Speaker 2: the successful people today and think I could never be that.
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  Speaker 2: It took years of hard work to get there. And
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  Speaker 2: actually you have to go through prolonged periods of not
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  Speaker 2: being very good before you get to a stage. And
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  Speaker 2: that's why people don't start. And so what I say
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  Speaker 2: is just take the first step and you're better than
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  Speaker 2: 99% of people. It's like going to the gym. No
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  Speaker 2: one goes to the gym and it's like treadmill. I
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  Speaker 2: love you old friend. It's uncomfortable. It's hard. But by
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  Speaker 2: showing up every day, you get better and better.
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  Speaker 1: People listening to this podcast might be like, well, you know,
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  Speaker 1: Harry's got a big following. Of course, he's, you know,
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  Speaker 1: he can WhatsApp people and get money. And that's why
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  Speaker 1: I like your 19-year-old story, because you didn't have a
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  Speaker 1: big following then.
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  Speaker 2: I did not have a big following at all. And
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  Speaker 2: I leveraged ego and insecurity of famous people and successful
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  Speaker 2: people to make money.
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  Speaker 1: It wasn't just you wanted success.
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  Speaker 2: You needed it.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's the only flip switch that people need
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  Speaker 1: to have. We didn't just want a million pounds for
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  Speaker 1: the sake of it. You needed it. So that's why
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  Speaker 1: it had to happen.
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  Speaker 2: But I also saw my family lost– my grandparents lost
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  Speaker 2: their house to bailiffs and they come and they give
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  Speaker 2: you a bag and they say, put all of your
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  Speaker 2: items in and you have 20 minutes to vacate the
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  Speaker 2: house and then we're taking the house. And you look
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  Speaker 2: at your family standing outside of a house that you've
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  Speaker 2: always had throughout your childhood and you realize the importance
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  Speaker 2: of money actually. And money is security. Money is stability.
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  Speaker 2: Money– his memories. And I just looked at it and
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  Speaker 2: I thought, there is no way I'm ever going to
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  Speaker 2: let anyone put my family in this position again. And like, honestly, Simon,
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  Speaker 2: why have I done well so far? I'm the most hungry, aggressive,
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  Speaker 2: unwilling to lose person in this business.
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  Speaker 1: I hope we got your eyes just then. I saw it.
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  Speaker 1: I saw it in your eyes.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: But I also think you're doing things the right way.
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  Speaker 1: You're really patient. See, I see people rise up really quick.
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  Speaker 1: They drop really quick. I actually think there's something really
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  Speaker 1: powerful in very gradual growth. And that's so underestimated. In
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  Speaker 1: this world where you hear headlines of people raising big
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  Speaker 1: money and all these things, talk a little bit about
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  Speaker 1: your journey from 19 till now.
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  Speaker 2: The decisions that you make will determine the outcomes that
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  Speaker 2: you achieve. And I think very much that everyone's decisions
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  Speaker 2: can be improved. by one simple framework, which is choose
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  Speaker 2: someone whose life you respect and admire and you would
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  Speaker 2: like to have. I have the person, Pat Grady, he's
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  Speaker 2: the head of Sequoia, which is the best fund in
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  Speaker 2: the world. Phenomenal husband, phenomenal father, phenomenal ambassador. I would
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  Speaker 2: like to be Pat Grady. Whenever I have a hard decision,
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  Speaker 2: I simply think, what would Pat do in this decision?
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  Speaker 2: And it governs a lot of my actions. That has
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  Speaker 2: been very helpful to me in sustaining longevity when you
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: could have chosen quick wins. I also always think, would
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  Speaker 2: I be happy for this to be printed in the
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  Speaker 2: New York Times? There's a lot of things that you
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  Speaker 2: can do to get a quick win, to make money quickly,
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  Speaker 2: but maybe you're not so happy to have it broadcast.
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  Speaker 2: Don't do it. Reputations are burned.
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  Speaker 1: How you make your money matters more than how much
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  Speaker 1: money you make.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: The reputation, I think, is such an undervalued. I've been
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  Speaker 1: in a room with really successful people that have discounted
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  Speaker 1: someone because of their reputation, and they don't even know
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  Speaker 1: the opportunity they missed.
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  Speaker 2: Totally. I've also spent so much time with billionaires, and
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  Speaker 2: I know one happy one. out of the 107 and so.
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  Speaker 1: What i've learned want to name them.
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  Speaker 2: No um but my my lesson there actually is like
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  Speaker 2: you and this is like another lie people do not
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  Speaker 2: talk enough about money money absolutely makes you happy bullshit
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  Speaker 2: that it doesn't it buys security it buys stability it
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  Speaker 2: buys freedom it absolutely does.
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  Speaker 1: Again this is really hard for my audience who are
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  Speaker 1: young who are starting out on their journey to grasp
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  Speaker 1: this but i think that you understand What you've said there,
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  Speaker 1: the way I translate it is like, only take advice
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  Speaker 1: from people whose life you want.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: So make sure before you idolize a billionaire's life, go
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: hang out with Elon Musk if you can and just see,
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  Speaker 1: because I don't want that life. I don't want that life.
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  Speaker 1: A hundred percent. So if you're going to copy everything
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: he says, you're going to end up, if you're lucky,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: inverted commas, having his life. In fact, your parents are
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: giving you advice. If their life is what you want,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: take it. But if it's not, question it.
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  Speaker 2: A hundred percent right. I completely agree. And I look
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  Speaker 2: at my mentors today. And they are people whose lives
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  Speaker 2: that I want and I respect. You should aggressively chase
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  Speaker 2: making your first million more than anything else because the
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: hardest to make is your first million by far. And
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  Speaker 2: also the world makes richer people get richer. I see
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  Speaker 2: this now. I'm fortunate that I have You know, the
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: posh banks that look after our money. And I get
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: higher interest rates. I get better investment products. I get
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: access to things that most other people can't. And having
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: seen my grandparents have no money and my grandparents shovel,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: my grandfather shovels gravel on a golf course for $ 12
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: an hour. Like seeing that and then seeing the fact
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  Speaker 2: that I get access to some of the investment products
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: that I do that no one else does because I
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: have money. It feels wrong, but the world is unfair
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  Speaker 2: and wrong. And so my advice would be like chase
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  Speaker 2: the first million because it unlocks so much more than
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: you could.
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  Speaker 1: Actually saying it makes me want to chase it. You know,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: you've got that thing like chase it, chase it. How
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: would you do it? If you were 19 today with
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: the AI world, a phone in your hand, you've got wifi,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: you know, you're in a job you hate. What would
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: you do?
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Single biggest thing I would specialize and I would focus
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: on a specific niche. And then I would interview the
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: biggest leaders in that niche. And then I would broadcast
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: what I'm doing. For example, I met an incredible young
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: woman the other day and I did a Simon's group.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: I said, you know, what would you like to do? Really,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: what's your dream? Because I don't think this job is.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: She's like, I don't know. And I said, well, what
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: do you like doing on your day off? It's a
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: great question to ask to unpack what someone's dream is.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: What do you like doing on your day off? I
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: love shopping. I said, why do you love shopping? And
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: she said, I love brands. And I said, that's really interesting.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Why do you love brands? And she said, because I
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: love going in and I love feeling the different materials
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: of the different products and comparing them between brands. I said,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: that's really interesting. Why? And she's like, Because some are
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: really shitty quality, but super expensive. And I'm thinking, how
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: much do they make on that? And some are really
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: good quality. And I'm like, God, they can't make much
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: on that. And I was like, why didn't you interview
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: the biggest CEOs of the biggest fashion brands and talk
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: to them about the business of fashion, the supply chains,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: the margins, how much stores cost? There is a business
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  Speaker 2: that easily in year one is a 10 million year business.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: What am I talking about? Interview the biggest CEOs of
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: the biggest fashion houses. It's a huge audience. It is
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: absolutely killer and no one does it. Specialize. Focus on
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: a small niche. Publish. Do it in public.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: And follow something that you enjoy doing. Linking to a
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: good business model.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: 100%.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: It's not rocket science, is it?
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: But also you don't need to have a good business
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: model on day one. When I started the podcast, I
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: didn't know that … You could make money from software
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: companies paying you to be in their show. You know,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that you got paid to speak at events.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that you get all of these different
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: revenue streams. You know, when we started, YouTube didn't pay creators.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: And so you don't have to have it all figured out.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: I think life is a little bit like a marathon,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: which is like if you tell yourself you're running a marathon, fuck,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: 42K is a lot to get your head around. If
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: you tell yourself you're running 5K... You can always do
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: the next 5K. Unlock life in its next milestone.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: And that's why I think starting young is quite important
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: because you can take more risk when you're young, which
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: is why, you know, I know we're both on the
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: same train. It's like university for 90% of people is
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: a waste of time.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Four years of your life. Forget the money you can
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: waste at university. But those four years of the year,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: you can sleep on a couch with friends. You can
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: stay at home for a little bit longer. You know,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: like you can take risk, right?
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: You also have the endurance. Like it is hard work
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: being an entrepreneur and you will have to work insane hours.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: I notice this now. I mean, I'm not as old
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: as you are. So I'm no, no, no.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: You're not though. So it's not.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: But I notice now my stamina at 30 is not
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: what it was at 20. Like take advantage of being young. Yeah. Yeah.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: And being naive.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: People don't know what they don't know.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: But sorry, the biggest problem with the UK is that
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: we are negative. Positive visualization is everything. I never doubted
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: that this would work. And this sounds arrogant, but I
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: always knew I would be successful. It never dawned on
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: me that it wouldn't work. And when you visualize something,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: you make it happen much more likely downside and upside.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: And I think the trouble with the UK is you
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: say an idea and we go, oh, that's not going
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: to work. That's not going to work. And in America,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: we say that's going to work. We need much more
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: positive visualization in the UK.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: How would you go about making that a reality in
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: the UK? Do you think there's a fix?
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. It's why I started Project Europe, which
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: is a $ 10 million fund, which gives $ 200, 000 to incredibly
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: young people to do... unreasonably ambitious things. We need more
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: people to say yes to crazy dreams.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Do you think people listening, does it always have to
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: be a crazy dream?
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: It does not need to be a crazy dream. If
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: you want to open a bakery and sell croissants, it's
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: probably not like a definition of crazy. Cool.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Some people think that's crazy. I actually know someone that
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: their whole family told them they were crazy because they
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: wanted to open a bakery. But to me, that's not crazy.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: It's kind of an average... why not try kind of thing.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: And i think snootiness is another mega problem that we
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: have in the uk which is like oh my gosh
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: why would you go from being a physicist at cambridge
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: to opening a bakery and like that's a bit beneath
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: you what happens if you open up the most successful
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: bakery in london you document it you have amazing queues
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: outside the corner and then you become the next cedric
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: grillet with bakeries in every city in every big country well.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: You know even you just do it for a year
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: and you realize it wasn't for you but at least
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: you don't live with regret A hundred percent. At least
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: you tried, right?
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: My biggest failures turned into my biggest successes. Getting kicked
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: out of boarding school for being bulimic led to my
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: entire life. I would never have started the media company
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: if I hadn't been kicked out of boarding school. Just
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: think about that. I would have been a mid-lawyer. Nothing
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: wrong with that.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Bad luck turns into good luck over time if you leverage.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: It, right? Yeah. But that's where the individual comes in,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: which is only you decide the next step. make a
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: positive decision. When shit happens, you can either accept it
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: or you can progress and move on. I could have
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: gone fucking bulimic. I don't have a passion.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Woe is you. You could have taken it as a
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: reason to not go for it.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: 100%. You decide the next step.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: What do you think that thing is where you take
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: it and make it positive and some people take it
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: and make it negative?
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I think it was twofold. I think it was one,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: having a mentor that could actually... redirect me in the
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: right way. And I think it's to the ability to
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: end the day. And what I mean by the ability
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: to end the day is like when you have a
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: shit day, go to bed knowing my mother always quoted
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Scarlett O'Hara from Gone with the Wind, which is tomorrow
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: is another day. Do not let the prior day impact
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: the next day. Always come at it with a fresh mind.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: I think the woe is me. One day will lead
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: to another series of bad days is very dangerous. Big,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: big lesson for me that I always think of is like,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: If you have the ability to be miserable for no reason,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: you also have the ability to be excited and optimistic
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: for no reason. Embrace it.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: The 19-year-old you idea there, just want to pick at
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: that for a second. Because what I'm tending to do
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: when I give young people advice now is always talk
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: about media. It's partly because I'm in media. But also,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: you know, I joined TikTok when I'm 45 years old.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: All of my peers laughed at me. When I was
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: on TikTok, I was around the table of other people
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: that sold their businesses. They were buying property and doing
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: these things. I'm going on TikTok and sharing knowledge and
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: they laughed at me. Now those same people ask me
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: how to get TikTok for their businesses working. But what
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: I'm getting to is like young people can't afford a house.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: It's too expensive. But social media, you can make one
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: video today and get 10 million views and sell a
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: product and make money. Like it's the most amazing, incredible thing.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: I had to knock on doors when I started a business, literally.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: But you mentioned media is what you do straight away.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: And I think it's important just to pick at it
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: for a second because a lot of people will be
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: listening like, well, I don't know how to interview. You
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: weren't a great interviewer at the beginning, right?
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: I was 18. I spent $ 50 and I bought a
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: microphone on Amazon, an ice ball microphone. That's what it's called.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: And I was a terrible interviewer. Point being, you only
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: get good by repeatedly doing it. And it took me
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: three years before I probably got good. It took me
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: four years before I got a thousand plays. Simon, you've
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: been building this media empire now.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Six years. First three years, nothing. I got no... Oh, wow.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. So most people give up. This is a
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: game of who can survive the longest. And the lovely
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: thing about content, Simon, if you fail, it's because no
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: one cares. And if no one cares... no one will
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: know that you failed. So why don't you do it anyway?
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: That's a great framework for people to go and apply
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: to their lives. And the truth is no one gives
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: a shit anyway. They'll laugh at you until they're no
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: longer laughing and then they'll be asking if they can
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: come on your podcast. Let's take media out of it
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: for a second. If you were 19 and you say, right,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: not media, any other, like AI, of course, for me,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: like I was sitting with a lovable developer yesterday. We
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: built two businesses in 40 minutes that could be worth
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: tens of millions of pounds in income. It blew my mind.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: The kind of development side now is also I used
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: to think technology was going to be the barrier to
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: entry to building businesses. I think now it's the ability
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: to communicate, like you said, the ability to sell, and frankly, marketing.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: It's distribution. Totally. Distribution.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: So if you can build distribution, and everybody can, it's
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: kind of a commodity product. Anyone can jump on their
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: phone and start creating.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Well, this is why our venture funds are doing so
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: well right now, which is because everyone has a venture
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: capital fund today, sadly. But not everyone has distribution. You know,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: I posted about one of our companies, Fixer, which is
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: email autocomplete. And they're going to hate me for that,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: but it does your emails better than any other AI
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: can do. I posted about them on LinkedIn and they
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: got 4 million in revenue from one LinkedIn post.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Crazy.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: For an investor to bring you 4 million from one post.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Especially as most investors say they're going to bring you
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: value and they give you a bit of advice.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: You know, actual value.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: That's actual value. And we have data to prove it.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: very valuable. And so you're moving to a world where
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: distribution is the biggest determinant of value. So by the way,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: for young people specifically, learn how to use specific AI
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: tools and you can choose whichever ones they are and
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: then sell those services to service providers, law firms, accountants,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: immigration providers, you name it. They will pay you consulting
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: fees to bring AI into their business. Every big firm
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: is asking the question, How do I bring AI into
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: my business? I don't know. They will spend consulting fees
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: to let you introduce them to AI.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: You're talking about arbitrage businesses, which I think is another
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: big opportunity for a 19-year-old today. You go deep on
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: how to use an AI tool and then you approach
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: a company who hasn't got time to go deep on
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: an AI tool and you bring it to them. You
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: make them savings. You take a percentage of the savings
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: you make.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Done. Easy. Completely agree. Yeah. And they just also, so
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: many companies need to tick the AI box. Right. And
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: show to their boss. You've also got to remember that
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: everyone is selling to someone else. They need to show
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: that they are embracing AI. By hiring Simon, the 22-year-old
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: amazing kid out of the University of Warwick, who's an
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: AI specialist, they are ticking that box.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: That's the thing about social media. I also love everybody
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: when they say social media. It's like, we've got to
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: get someone young in. I'm like, then I can't help
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: you then. But there is a perception, isn't there, that
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: young people know the new stuff.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: 100%.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Again, people should leverage that. If you're young, you should
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: leverage what the perception is and then make that perception true.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Sam Altman said on a show with
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: us that, you know, young people embrace ChatGPT as a
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: companion for life and older people embrace it as the
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: next Google.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Right. That's so fascinating.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Which is true.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Like, you know, I will often put in WhatsApp messages
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: from my girlfriend to ChatGPT and be like, Give me
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: an empathetic tone, but disagree.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Well, that's a good idea. You create a whole AI
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: just helping you with your relationship.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: It's the companion for life.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: You've just come up with another business idea.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: 100%. There are so many. But I mean, okay, great one.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Who doesn't love eating great food and great pastries? Like
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: very few people. The people who do TikTok reviews from
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: their cars make a fortune.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: To your point on the beauty of content, how great
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: is that?
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you don't even have to be in it.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: They're POV most of those, right? They're driving by a
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: place with a queue and then they walk in POV.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: They don't even show their face.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Most of the time, right?
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: You know, I've been offered like 50 to 100 grand
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: to be sponsored by brands for my walks with my mother.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, really?
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: That doesn't surprise me.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: I was pretty shocked. So many brands want to sponsor
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: us for our walks.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Sponsorship deals. We were, again, talking a little bit off
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: camera about this. I have a feeling, you know, you
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: look at things like Facebook. It did such a great
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: job of becoming a valuable company because it had all
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: the attention. And then on top, apps came, you know,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: like Snapchat and Instagram. And again, they drawed all the attention.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: I think the next big platform is a creator. Because again, like,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: why would you promote someone else's brand if you can
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: promote a brand you own? So for example, I'm launching
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: a competitor to Starbucks as part of my business model.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Starbucks.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Why would I promote Starbucks, which I don't particularly believe in?
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: They might have the money to sponsor me. They're not
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: paying tax in the UK. In my opinion, the product
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: is no longer good. Why wouldn't I start my own
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: competitor to it?
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Completely agree with you.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense to just take a small fee
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: off them and then promote them. And they get the
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: every month revenue from my marketing, right?
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Completely agree. I think people are companies today. And that's
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: the big transition. Cristiano Ronaldo, CR7, is a brand as
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: big as Starbucks or Coca-Cola or you name it. He
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: is a company. He's not a person anymore. And there
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: is a stage where you get to where absolutely that
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: is the case. And I think you saw it with Mr. Beast,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: where Mr. Beast started doing his own products. Now, I
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: think you've got to be careful about the products that
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: you choose. You know, Mr. Beast did Mr. Beast burgers. Bad,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: and he'll say this himself, bad product to choose, difficult
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: to monitor quality, difficult time delivery.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Clever scale mechanism because he worked with outside partners, but
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: then quality control was a problem.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And so I think you've got to choose your
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: product well, but I 100% agree there comes a scale.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: where it doesn't make sense to promote someone else's if
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: you can promote your own.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of Mr. Beast. He's gone a
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: little bit unpopular in some areas now. But I think
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: I don't like unethical products. You could argue that launching
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: a chocolate brand, more sugar for kids, do we really
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: want that, right? I'm surprised burgers are the same. There's
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: an ethical thing. I think people, when they're launching their
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: own products, also need to be a bit careful on
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: this front.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: I get you. But I'm also like, you're always going
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: to make someone unhappy.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's got to be true to you. Personally, I
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: like chocolate. So anyway, but I think... So do I.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: You've got to... I see online, by the way, that's
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: why I'm talking about like, I think there is a...
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: I had an agency business when I was in my
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: 20s and a tobacco company came and offered us £ 2
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: million a year to help them get kids to smoke.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Of course, I said no. But there was a moment...
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: In business, I'm like, well, someone's going to take that work.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Why don't I take it? And that's, I can hire people.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: I can justify in my head as like, well, then
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I can pay people more. And, you know, people have families,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: they have mortgages. But I think you've got to know
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: your ethics in business. And I don't think this is
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: talked about enough, ethics in general.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Completely. My biggest mentor, who is worth $ 10 billion, said
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: to me, you are never wrong to do the right thing.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: And often the right thing is the hard thing. Yeah.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Especially when it's turning away money. I think that money
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: has become this god, hasn't it, in itself. I saw
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Gary Vee talk about this. He was like, there's deals
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: I've turned away because they don't meet what I want,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: and I've lost millions of dollars. I've given people money back.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: He was talking in particular about he was invited to
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: go do a talk when he was first starting talking.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: He was offered $ 50, 000 to do a talk, and he
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: thought it was too much money. It's too much money
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: to be paid to talk. So his mental framework was
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: he was going to go there, do the talk, and
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: at the end of it, the people weren't happy, give
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: them the money back, which I thought was great. You
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: say yes, and then do it, And then if people
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: aren't happy, he'll give the money back. I actually think
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: that's quite a good framework.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: It's a good framework. I would just give it to
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: a charity.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Well, apparently they didn't complain.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: That's why money is a luxury. Because when you really
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: need it, you need to take it. When you don't,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: we turn down most brand deals now. We don't need
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: to take any brand deal. I don't need to have
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: brands at all. But that comes with money. Money is
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: a luxury. And it gives you the freedom to choose.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in for-profit, for-good businesses going forward.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: I think we're all talking about this rubbish thing about
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: tax the rich. I just think it's so stupid and
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: dumb and short-sighted. I think companies should be supporting that.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Companies should pay proper tax. Like Starbucks not paying tax
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: in this country actually frustrates me. They're making money in
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: this country. Frankly, Facebook making money in this country and
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: it going off into an island country. system as if
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: a transaction is happening in ireland i think companies should
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: be supporting fixing the problems we have in a country
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: what do you think.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: I i get you but then there's like logic which
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: is of course that's logical and right and there's reality
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: which is what we are in today which is if
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: you make a harsher fiscal system for them taxation system
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: for them they will move elsewhere they will not invest
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: in the country in the same way and you will
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: see a loss of investment from them and so the
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: biggest thing is how do we get the best companies
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: to invest in our country meaningfully, hire people, invest in restaurants, locations,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: you name it. And if you do implement those taxation changes,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: you are going to lose them. And so I logically
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: agree with you, but the reality is we are in
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: a global war for talent and for companies to build
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: businesses here. And if we make it unfriendly, sadly what
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: you want to do, we're going to lose them.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: I don't want to make it unfair. I know what
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: you mean, though. And I think it's a very interesting
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: conversation to have because people like Gary Stevens have blown
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: up on the internet because he's got his one simple
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: fix in his mind, right, which is tax the rich.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: And the weird thing is his audience is very similar
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: to my audience. But I'm saying take agency over your life,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: start something, build something. Don't let anyone give you a job.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Create one for yourself. And that's the way to fix
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: your own problems, right? But unfortunately, by just blaming the
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: super rich, they will leave. I think what I'm noticing.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Gary Stevenson is the embodiment of woe is me. Also, bluntly,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: his financial career that he states at the beginning, love
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: for someone to take a check that out.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Well, we know it's a lie. He was not the
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: most successful trader.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: So we know that. And then it's like, if he
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: was the most successful trader, why is he selling a
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Patreon course to the people who he's trying to make
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: richer for $ 99? Why didn't he give it away for free? Right. Seriously? Exactly.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Well, why doesn't he take all the money he's making
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: and just dish it out to people like I'm doing
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: every day? You know, why not actually give back to
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: the people he says he wants to help?
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be amazing? You've got millions every week, give
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: away 10 grand to a young person to.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Start a business. Which is what I'm doing. So he
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: can do that. So I agree. It's a bit of a,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: he's a solution to the problem he represents. is subscribe
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: to my YouTube channel. How does that actually solve the problem?
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: And that's my biggest issue with that type of rhetoric.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: So I actually love this conversation, even though we're not
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: 100% aligned. I think there is something in between. I
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: think when I speak to company owners, generally they want
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: the world to be a better place. And so I
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: think there's something in between where it's a combination of
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: like shareholder profit, 100%. We need to make money. We
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: need to be competitive. We need to live in a
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: competitive world. But what can we do to make the
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: world a better place? I love Patagonia for this particular reason.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: I actually think Patagonia were a more successful brand because
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: they fought like this.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: What do you think? I totally agree with that. And
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I always love their founder, Yves Chinois, who said, you know,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I go away for three months of the year. And
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: he said, well, what happens if there's like a fire
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: in the factory? He's like, well, I'm not going to
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: be able to stop it even if I'm there. Like,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: why would you call me? Like, that's useless. Don't bother.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Just tell me when I'm back. Yeah. I completely agree
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: with you. But again, I think it goes back to
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: the people buy people and people buy brands that they like. Yeah.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: And you need to stand out. And I think Patagonia
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: having that B Corp status, which is kind of what
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: they have to make themselves this structure, means that people
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: resonate with them.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: I'm going to call you my patient zero for what's
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: your dream. You know, you made it happen and you
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: made it happen with sheer willpower. And I'm so grateful
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: you've come on this podcast today and shared your knowledge.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: We'll have to have some chicken now. We'll see you later, guys.