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Healing Mental Illness Through Education with Pernille Yilmam, PhD · The Trauma Therapist

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Speaker 1: and signing up today. Welcome to the Trauma Nevers podcast,
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Speaker 1: a show about the incredible people dedicated to helping those
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Speaker 1: who experienced trauma. My name is got macpherson, and my
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Speaker 1: mission is to raise awareness of trauma and to inspire
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Speaker 1: each of us to help those around us. All right, Vanila,
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Speaker 1: let me go, all right, five four, three, two and one,
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Speaker 1: Our folks, welcome back to the podcast. Very excited to
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Speaker 1: have back for Vanilla, Gilman.
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Speaker 2: Vanilla welcome, Thank you so much.
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Speaker 1: You're welcome. I'm sorry I mispronounced your last name, which
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Speaker 1: is Yill. Mom. That is correct, All right, awesome, It's
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Speaker 1: funny to get that so. Fornilla is a founder of
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Speaker 1: mind Blossom, which strives to prevent and combat mental illness
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Speaker 1: through education and fostering community support. Mind Blossom and envisions
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Speaker 1: a world where mental health education is integrated into all
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Speaker 1: community centers, schools, and companies with the aim to prevent
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Speaker 1: and reduce mental illness. Integrate that with humanity, with science
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Speaker 1: by using mental health education and evidence based method to
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Speaker 1: empower people's understanding of their own and others physical and
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Speaker 1: mental well being. Pranilla, welcome back and congratulations marriage.
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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you very much. Yes, that awesome.
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Speaker 1: So before we can go in here, remind our listeners
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Speaker 1: where you're from originally and where you are currently.
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Speaker 2: Yes, I am from Denmark originally. I moved to the
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Speaker 2: US when I was twenty one, and I currently live
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Speaker 2: in Boston, Massachusetts, although actually by the end of this month,
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Speaker 2: I'm moving to New Haven, Connecticut.
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Speaker 1: Oh okay, all right, so let's contextualize everything. How did
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Speaker 1: all this start for you?
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Speaker 2: Great question? Yeah, I asked myself that too. Okay, So
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Speaker 2: I have a long story of mental health challenges myself.
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Speaker 2: I think we spoke more about that last time we
2:19
Speaker 2: were on this podcast, and that really drove me into
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Speaker 2: studying neuroscience and psychology. I was really wondering about those
2:29
Speaker 2: big questions like why do we become the way we are,
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Speaker 2: how do we think the way we think? Why do
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Speaker 2: we have the mental illnesses that we have? Why do
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Speaker 2: some people not have the mental illnesses that they have? Right?
2:41
Speaker 2: And so I'm prompting Basilians here, and so that really
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Speaker 2: led me into those studies, and long story short, I
2:47
Speaker 2: went through a PhD a post stop and I did
2:51
Speaker 2: research for over a decade and various academic institutions, and
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Speaker 2: I was doing good. I was doing great. I was
2:59
Speaker 2: on a good track to become a professor at a
3:01
Speaker 2: prestigious university. But it came to a point where I realized,
3:06
Speaker 2: I'm healed, I understand where I came from, I understand
3:12
Speaker 2: my challenges, and I've recovered. But I really wanted to
3:16
Speaker 2: bring all of that information that was so pivotal in
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Speaker 2: my own journey to the people, and particularly to the
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Speaker 2: people that wouldn't normally go to college or get a PhD.
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Speaker 2: So that really spurred me to leave academia, and eventually
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Speaker 2: a few years later I founded mind Blossom, which is
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Speaker 2: now one and a half years old, and where we're
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Speaker 2: really focusing on providing information like the information you would
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Speaker 2: get if you are in a PhD program or are
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Speaker 2: in a college program studying neuroscience and psychology, but you know,
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Speaker 2: we're making that accessible to everybody who's not or maybe
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Speaker 2: the people who even think that they don't have to
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Speaker 2: talk about mental health, right and so breaking those stigmas.
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Speaker 1: So you started up by saying you did have some
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Speaker 1: mental health challenges. What were they?
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Speaker 2: How much time do we have? Yeah? Right, So it's
4:08
Speaker 2: a little bit of a sad story, and there are
4:09
Speaker 2: definitely some trigger warnings that should be mentioned here. I
4:13
Speaker 2: started at it at around age eleven. I had persistent
4:19
Speaker 2: depressive disorder. That's what we like, that's kind of what
4:22
Speaker 2: we call like depression and children, and I started the
4:26
Speaker 2: first behaviors of an eating disorder. I wouldn't say that
4:30
Speaker 2: the thought patterns we often think about that are associated
4:32
Speaker 2: with an eating disorder were present already then, but I
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Speaker 2: started not eating and restricting my food, throwing it out,
4:40
Speaker 2: all of that not so good stuff. And then I
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Speaker 2: think the most significant aspect is that I was very suicidal,
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Speaker 2: and so I had a lot of suicidal ideation. I
4:50
Speaker 2: planned out my suicide, contemplated it, stood in front of
4:54
Speaker 2: the knives, that was how I was going to use it. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: So that's all that started at a very young age,
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Speaker 2: and that lasted until I was around thirteen, and then
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Speaker 2: I had a period of kind of spontaneous recovery for
5:09
Speaker 2: various reasons that then later on catapulted into a really
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Speaker 2: serious eating disorder, and that eating disorder was compounded by
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Speaker 2: anxiety depression. I got really severe insomnia, didn't sleep for days.
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Speaker 2: I've never had bipolar or anything like that, but that
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Speaker 2: restlessness and inability to sleep in large part because of
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Speaker 2: anxiety was something that came to define my life for many,
5:35
Speaker 2: many years up until my early twenties. And again, long
5:39
Speaker 2: story short, several panic attacks and various other challenges intertwined.
5:46
Speaker 2: I finally really started seeking recovery, and that recovery process
5:50
Speaker 2: looked that was a painting, that was an abstract modern
5:55
Speaker 2: art painting that developed over time and it and it
6:01
Speaker 2: worked at the end. You know, so many different therapists
6:04
Speaker 2: and providers were involved. A few different medications to support
6:09
Speaker 2: me as well were involved, and definitely community support, and
6:13
Speaker 2: that has been so critical, just establishing that sense of belonging.
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Speaker 1: What was that point and I want to get into
6:21
Speaker 1: mind blossom, but what was the point at which you
6:26
Speaker 1: decided to seek help?
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Speaker 2: Yeah? So I sought help several times, and I'm sure
6:32
Speaker 2: a lot of listeners out there can relate to, you know,
6:35
Speaker 2: wanting to seek help but then not really right. And
6:37
Speaker 2: so this pattern of going back and forth was really
6:42
Speaker 2: really prevalent for me too. I will say where the
6:45
Speaker 2: last turning point was where I really thought like I'm done.
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Speaker 2: I'm gonna either I'm recovering or I'm out of here
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Speaker 2: was right around the beginning of the pandemic, and as
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Speaker 2: so many people say, the pandemic had silver linings. And
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Speaker 2: that's really when I said started realizing, like, if I
7:01
Speaker 2: want to fully recovered, because I had already gotten very
7:04
Speaker 2: much better by them, but if I wanted to really
7:06
Speaker 2: recover from my body image challenges, the body is morphic
7:10
Speaker 2: disorder that I was struck with, then I needed to
7:15
Speaker 2: be okay with my body, and I needed to be
7:18
Speaker 2: so okay with it that I didn't really it didn't
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Speaker 2: really matter that much what my body looked like. People
7:25
Speaker 2: would still love me. And I know that that sounds
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Speaker 2: a little bit absurd, like, obviously people will love you
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Speaker 2: no matter what you look like. Is what's on the
7:31
Speaker 2: inside that matters. But for me, so yeah, right. But
7:35
Speaker 2: for me that wasn't always the case. So I grew
7:38
Speaker 2: up in a household where it was really focused on
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Speaker 2: what you look like, and if you changed your appearance,
7:43
Speaker 2: typically to looking a little bit bigger, then you were
7:47
Speaker 2: going to know about that, and so these two things
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Speaker 2: just came to be so going so hand in hand
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Speaker 2: for me that that was the last thing I really
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Speaker 2: needed to address, and so that was a game changer.
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Speaker 2: But I'll say there have been multiple aspects prior to that,
8:04
Speaker 2: you know, since oh what was that twenty fifteen where
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Speaker 2: I really wanted recovery, But it took you know, five
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Speaker 2: years before I really embraced it and really mentally was
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Speaker 2: ready to absorb it. Does that make sense?
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Speaker 1: It does? And then you don't just seek education, I
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Speaker 1: mean you dive into intense right, what was where does
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Speaker 1: that come from? What was going on for you? Such
8:36
Speaker 1: a You're like, Okay, I need to find out what's
8:38
Speaker 1: going on. I'm going to go become a neuroscientist. I
8:41
Speaker 1: mean that extreme.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think sometimes extremes are born out of extremes.
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Speaker 2: I grew up in a household where, you know, you
8:54
Speaker 2: didn't really get many answers to questions, and for various reasons,
8:58
Speaker 2: I'm the first person in my household, in my entire
9:01
Speaker 2: family to receive a college education and obviously the first
9:04
Speaker 2: one to get a PhD. I had so many questions.
9:08
Speaker 2: I was so curious. I was that student in the
9:11
Speaker 2: classroom that would sit on the front row and ask questions. Right,
9:14
Speaker 2: I love learning, so that plays a huge role in it.
9:17
Speaker 2: But really trying to understand myself, that reflection, it's really
9:22
Speaker 2: something I enjoy and I really benefited a lot from it.
9:25
Speaker 2: I went to therapy for the first time when I
9:28
Speaker 2: was sixteen. Unfortunately I was pulled out early by my
9:32
Speaker 2: mother because she thought the therapy made me sick, and
9:35
Speaker 2: so I didn't really have a lot of exposure to
9:39
Speaker 2: self reflection and the ability to really dive in and
9:42
Speaker 2: have these conversation in a very healthy way. And so
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Speaker 2: I think that drove a big part of it.
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Speaker 1: When you were in this program, when you were becoming
9:56
Speaker 1: educated and seeking education, some of the things you found
10:01
Speaker 1: what did you want to find out?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, I really wanted to understand why some people
10:10
Speaker 2: developmental illness, and that's what I did. I was at
10:13
Speaker 2: UC Berkeley as an exchange student there. That's what enabled
10:17
Speaker 2: me to go from Denmark to the US and there
10:22
Speaker 2: I was so lucky to be involved with work at DANIELA.
10:26
Speaker 2: Kowfur's lab there where we studied like how does the
10:29
Speaker 2: brain change in rats that have not had not so
10:32
Speaker 2: good parents and have had good parents, and we could see,
10:35
Speaker 2: you know, what were their behavioral changes and what were
10:38
Speaker 2: their brain changes? And I think that research is fascinating.
10:42
Speaker 2: It originated back in oh, I don't know, I want
10:45
Speaker 2: to say, the seventies and eighties by doctor Meanie in Canada,
10:51
Speaker 2: and it's something that really drove my interest. Now, what
10:54
Speaker 2: happened and what I think a lot of people with
10:56
Speaker 2: eating disorders probably can relate to and other types of
11:00
Speaker 2: perfectionistic tendencies, is that I wanted to be really good
11:04
Speaker 2: at doing neuroscience research. In fact, I wanted people to
11:08
Speaker 2: think that I was really good, and so it was
11:10
Speaker 2: a little bit more important that I got a project
11:14
Speaker 2: that would make me successful rather than me searching out
11:18
Speaker 2: my inner desires. So all of this to say that
11:22
Speaker 2: when I ended up in my PhD program, I actually
11:24
Speaker 2: ended up studying a neurodevelopmental disorder that was focused on
11:29
Speaker 2: the genetic aspect, like how do genes change your brain?
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Speaker 2: And that is also super interesting, but not exactly why
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Speaker 2: I went into neuroscience to begin with. But it was
11:39
Speaker 2: a more you can say, bulletproof way of making sure
11:42
Speaker 2: you've got some good publications out. Now, with that said,
11:45
Speaker 2: you know I'm acknowledging here that that in part was
11:48
Speaker 2: driven by probably my eating disorders and the traits that
11:51
Speaker 2: kind of can come along with that, the perfectionism, workaholic
11:55
Speaker 2: type of tendencies. At least those were true for me.
11:59
Speaker 2: It was it's been really really cool to be able
12:02
Speaker 2: to study the environmental aspects. So what it's like, how
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Speaker 2: does how does growing up in an unhealthy childhood and
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Speaker 2: unhealthy household impact your brain? And then how do the
12:12
Speaker 2: genes impact your brain? So now I'm in a position
12:14
Speaker 2: where I really understand those two dicotomies really well, and
12:18
Speaker 2: that kind of blended all together when I then went
12:20
Speaker 2: to Harvard University for my post doc.
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Speaker 1: When you learned that the importance of the environment, the
12:28
Speaker 1: external environment on one's psyche developmental journey in the sense,
12:36
Speaker 1: did that give you some solace? Did that give you
12:39
Speaker 1: some relieve? Did that we were able to exhale and say,
12:42
Speaker 1: oh my god, you know there's nothing wrong with me?
12:44
Speaker 1: Did that? Was that too simplistic? No?
12:47
Speaker 2: I definitely think so. I think from a very young Aigle,
12:51
Speaker 2: I know, from a very young age, I had a
12:53
Speaker 2: very clear sense of something's not good in this household,
12:57
Speaker 2: it's not about me, it's about them. And that's saved
13:00
Speaker 2: me because so many people, you know, end up internalizing.
13:04
Speaker 2: You know, I got gas lit a lot by my mother,
13:06
Speaker 2: and so I was told often that I was lying
13:09
Speaker 2: about things I wasn't lying about. That I didn't love
13:12
Speaker 2: my sister was a very common accusation that I was
13:16
Speaker 2: very selfish. She told me I should never have children.
13:18
Speaker 2: Things like that that were easy to internalize. And some
13:22
Speaker 2: of these things I did come to think of as like, oh,
13:24
Speaker 2: they must be truths. But lucky enough, I didn't have
13:29
Speaker 2: that mentality. I didn't absorb it so easily. So I
13:32
Speaker 2: think I had that understanding pretty early on. But seeing
13:35
Speaker 2: the science of it and seeing you know, epigenetics, how
13:38
Speaker 2: your environment can change your genome so that you become
13:42
Speaker 2: more likely to develop depression, anxiety, eating disorders and anything
13:46
Speaker 2: else that is out there, that really, yeah, that that
13:50
Speaker 2: is powerful to know. And I think that's where to me,
13:53
Speaker 2: like that, saying about knowledge is power becomes very truthful.
13:58
Speaker 1: Beers, You're saying so many things that are kind of
14:02
Speaker 1: inspiring me to go off. But there's this common knowledge that, uh,
14:09
Speaker 1: it takes a while, maybe even years for the research
14:13
Speaker 1: to filter down into the on the boots on the
14:17
Speaker 1: ground therapy first of all, in terms of mental the
14:23
Speaker 1: mental health field. Is that true? And how is what
14:28
Speaker 1: do you what are you seeing or not seeing in
14:34
Speaker 1: treatment that needs to happen?
14:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, yes, that is true. And then we
14:41
Speaker 2: can take it a step further where we're not just
14:44
Speaker 2: talking about therapists or professional mental health professionals. If we
14:49
Speaker 2: talk about teachers, community center staff members, anybody else who's
14:54
Speaker 2: just a regular parent not involved with mental health, they
14:57
Speaker 2: know even less, right, And I'm not talking about that
15:00
Speaker 2: they need to know what was published yesterday in Nature, right,
15:04
Speaker 2: that's not necessary. We're talking about the knowledge that is
15:09
Speaker 2: foundational for the way that we're approaching mental health, that
15:12
Speaker 2: we're understanding where it's coming from, how can we address it,
15:15
Speaker 2: how can we support it? And I think where there
15:17
Speaker 2: is the biggest need right now, and I mean there
15:20
Speaker 2: are so many ways in which their needs right but
15:22
Speaker 2: one of the biggest ones is really prevention. In my opinion,
15:25
Speaker 2: we do we spend so much, so much time and
15:28
Speaker 2: resources on crisis and developing ways that we can address crises,
15:32
Speaker 2: but we don't develop as many government funded ways of
15:37
Speaker 2: developing prevention programs. Now, where you see most of these
15:41
Speaker 2: prevention programs unfold aren't schools. So that will be that
15:44
Speaker 2: you have a workshop, maybe a couple of workshops in
15:48
Speaker 2: a school setting for the high school students or middle
15:50
Speaker 2: school students, but you don't really see it being delivered
15:53
Speaker 2: as professional development to the teachers or staff members in
15:58
Speaker 2: other settings where the youth members often are. And that
16:02
Speaker 2: to me is devastating because these members, like these staff members, teachers,
16:08
Speaker 2: various other types of after school staff members, community center
16:11
Speaker 2: staff members, they're often the first responders. They are the
16:14
Speaker 2: ones that are going to be able to see those
16:17
Speaker 2: early warning signs just like the parents could, and we
16:19
Speaker 2: should support the parents as well with these types of information.
16:23
Speaker 2: So there is a huge lack in terms of how
16:25
Speaker 2: we are disseminating preventative information about mental health and illness, like.
16:31
Speaker 1: What preventative information such as.
16:33
Speaker 2: What just knowing what the early warning signs are, knowing
16:37
Speaker 2: that and I know, like to you and I that
16:39
Speaker 2: might sound like, well doesn't everybody know? But they don't.
16:42
Speaker 2: You know, these are the programs rerun out in community
16:46
Speaker 2: centers that are here in Boston, for example, and people
16:49
Speaker 2: don't know the early warning signs, so they don't understand that,
16:55
Speaker 2: you know, having an addiction, it's not a choice. You
16:59
Speaker 2: know that some of them, you know, still believe that
17:01
Speaker 2: is a choice. And I understand that because that has
17:05
Speaker 2: been the lingo for a long time. And if you're
17:07
Speaker 2: not a part of this conversation, you wouldn't know that
17:09
Speaker 2: that has changed. If you just listen to you know,
17:12
Speaker 2: your generation, previous generations about what is addiction, you might say,
17:17
Speaker 2: this is a choice. And when you're working with those
17:18
Speaker 2: youth members that come to your school or community center,
17:22
Speaker 2: you scold them rather than supporting them. And so that's
17:26
Speaker 2: where you know, again, there are so many places in
17:29
Speaker 2: which we can say there is a big need, But
17:30
Speaker 2: it's just one of those needs that I am faced
17:33
Speaker 2: with a lot, and that I think we could really
17:35
Speaker 2: do a lot of preventative work by simply educating people better.
17:39
Speaker 2: Hence the mental health education which I'm now so focused on.
17:44
Speaker 1: So, mind Blossom, why did you start this?
17:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's pretty simple. I as I mentioned earlier,
17:55
Speaker 2: I really came to appreciate how much my education played
18:01
Speaker 2: a role in my healing. And I want to really
18:03
Speaker 2: recognized that I had so many different therapists and various
18:08
Speaker 2: nurses and other supporters involved in my healing journey. But
18:13
Speaker 2: the education and knowledge, as you were also saying about
18:16
Speaker 2: understanding the role of my environment, the role of genomes
18:21
Speaker 2: how they play in that was a big game changer
18:23
Speaker 2: for me and really made me much more comfortable with
18:27
Speaker 2: being who I am and understanding that things can change.
18:30
Speaker 2: I'm not stuck here. I don't have to have an
18:31
Speaker 2: eating disorder for the rest of my life. So I
18:34
Speaker 2: wanted to bring that out to people, and what better
18:38
Speaker 2: way of doing that than having a nonprofit where we
18:40
Speaker 2: go and do it for free. So that's really how
18:44
Speaker 2: we started. I'm very passionate about developing community and what
18:48
Speaker 2: we do see as a indirect consequence but planned out
18:53
Speaker 2: indirect consequence off educating people is that they're building community.
18:58
Speaker 2: And so for example, when we were in these community
19:00
Speaker 2: centers and we are having them come in on a
19:02
Speaker 2: regular basis to these weekly sessions, we see at the
19:06
Speaker 2: end that they feel better about each other and so
19:08
Speaker 2: they are communicating better, they're working together better, they want
19:11
Speaker 2: to hang out more, and that positive atmosphere among adults
19:16
Speaker 2: is a trickle down effect on youth. I think we
19:19
Speaker 2: know this with parents. Right, If the parents in the
19:22
Speaker 2: household they're doing well, then the children also typically do better.
19:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's talk about the programs you're offering, what
19:33
Speaker 1: specifically you're doing. Who are you reaching out to.
19:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, first off, we want to talk to anybody
19:42
Speaker 2: who wants to listen, very passionate about this. With that set,
19:46
Speaker 2: our target audiences are staff members, for example, teachers, community centers,
19:52
Speaker 2: staff members mainly in underserved areas, that's where we do
19:56
Speaker 2: our free of cost nonprofit work. And then caregivers, the
20:01
Speaker 2: ones that are taking care of the kiddos at home
20:03
Speaker 2: are the ones that are expecting. And then also youth.
20:06
Speaker 2: We go out and we talk to youth. We provide
20:08
Speaker 2: programs there I'll say our bread and butter. We're still
20:11
Speaker 2: very young, so you know, we are developing different visions
20:15
Speaker 2: and we're going in different directions. But the places where
20:17
Speaker 2: we've really made an impact so far are among staff
20:21
Speaker 2: members and among caregivers. And we have done so by
20:24
Speaker 2: having these programs that I've been alluding to several times
20:27
Speaker 2: throughout this conversation, where we have weekly sessions where they come,
20:32
Speaker 2: we talk about a specific topic or whatever that program involves,
20:36
Speaker 2: and we do things like ranging from what is mental illness?
20:42
Speaker 2: What are the early warning signs? Right? And we talk
20:44
Speaker 2: about different types of mental illnesses or sometimes we just
20:47
Speaker 2: focus on one. But then we also practice effective communication strategies,
20:51
Speaker 2: So like, how do you go to your doctor and
20:53
Speaker 2: ask for an evaluation for your child? Sounds simple, really difficult,
20:57
Speaker 2: especially if that doctor is not really willing to provide it.
21:01
Speaker 2: So how do you advocate for yourself? How do you
21:03
Speaker 2: talk to your child or a youth to make sure
21:05
Speaker 2: you know you're doing it in a way where they
21:07
Speaker 2: want to open up and they feel that it's trusting.
21:10
Speaker 2: And then lastly, where do you find support? And again
21:14
Speaker 2: we you know, we have some great programs. Nine eight
21:16
Speaker 2: eight is a new program that's been rolled out. None
21:19
Speaker 2: of the but not most of the people we interact
21:22
Speaker 2: with don't know about nine eight eight until we tell them.
21:25
Speaker 2: That is, you know, the federal government has been spending
21:28
Speaker 2: billions into this program, and the people that are in
21:31
Speaker 2: the most need don't know about it. So such a
21:33
Speaker 2: single thing, you know, we can go out and talk
21:36
Speaker 2: to them about. But they are also the local resources
21:39
Speaker 2: there are, like what are the peer support centers that
21:42
Speaker 2: are happening in your local community. Often they don't know
21:45
Speaker 2: about that. The schools don't know about it, the community
21:48
Speaker 2: centers don't know about it, the parents don't know about it.
21:50
Speaker 2: So how do we disseminate that very local information to
21:54
Speaker 2: that local region so that they can benefit.
21:58
Speaker 1: You are unquestioned on fire on this topic. I mean,
22:03
Speaker 1: of course you could feel it's it's it's amazing and
22:10
Speaker 1: you're providing extremely uh important, vital foundational information to the community.
22:21
Speaker 1: You know, recently, within the last what several years, I
22:25
Speaker 1: don't know, there's been within our within the culture, I know,
22:31
Speaker 1: a greater awareness of mental health and the causes of
22:34
Speaker 1: mental health. Are you how are you see? What are
22:38
Speaker 1: you seeing in terms of that there obviously there's still
22:43
Speaker 1: a stigma, huge stigma.
22:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's encouraging. Again, this is another silver lining
22:52
Speaker 2: of the pandemic. Suddenly, I think people that weren't faced
22:56
Speaker 2: with mental health challenges were faced with them and came
22:58
Speaker 2: to recognize, oh, this is this is the challenge we
23:01
Speaker 2: need to talk about. We saw we have seen a
23:04
Speaker 2: rise in the number of youth that are dying by suicide.
23:09
Speaker 2: That's something that will wake people up. It's terrible when
23:12
Speaker 2: it has to come to being, you know, to death
23:15
Speaker 2: before people will listen. But these are some of the
23:17
Speaker 2: things that I think have made a difference in that direction. Now.
23:22
Speaker 2: I recently wrote an article for Aon, which is a
23:26
Speaker 2: digital magazine, on the topic of mental health and illness,
23:30
Speaker 2: stigma and discrimination in the workplace. And there, as you're
23:35
Speaker 2: probably aware, are huge developments on. You know, companies are
23:40
Speaker 2: offering apps, and they're offering yoga sessions, and they're offering
23:44
Speaker 2: who knows what other small benefits to people to support
23:47
Speaker 2: their mental health. But I that is not enough, and
23:51
Speaker 2: so we're what they're doing. In my opinion, I understand
23:56
Speaker 2: sometimes it comes from good intentions, but it's also a
23:58
Speaker 2: little bit of a band aid a very big wound. Right,
24:01
Speaker 2: And so we're telling people, oh, doing your lunch session,
24:03
Speaker 2: why don't you go and do yoga instead? Right, Like
24:06
Speaker 2: that's absurd. Here is an app you can do some mindfulness,
24:11
Speaker 2: that's way to address your burnout, right, Like, these are
24:14
Speaker 2: not substantial ways to actually address the challenges at hand.
24:19
Speaker 2: So we need better interventions, like we need things to
24:22
Speaker 2: change more. But what I am really encouraged about is
24:25
Speaker 2: that the conversation is opening up more. It's a hot
24:28
Speaker 2: topic right now. Nowadays, everybody is into mental health in
24:32
Speaker 2: whatever capacity that is, but we're not seeing, you know,
24:36
Speaker 2: the interventions roll out or the support system roll out
24:40
Speaker 2: and the way we would like it to. So we
24:41
Speaker 2: have to keep making sure that the conversation keeps going,
24:45
Speaker 2: but that we also see that the government, the companies,
24:48
Speaker 2: the states actually do the interventions that we have them
24:51
Speaker 2: to do to address this problem.
24:54
Speaker 1: Such as what you're talking about. You know, the yoga
24:58
Speaker 1: class during lunch is a band aid. What would you
25:02
Speaker 1: like to see happen?
25:05
Speaker 2: I'm incredibly biased. I'll say my biased opinion first and
25:08
Speaker 2: then I'll come up with some unbiased opinions after. My
25:12
Speaker 2: first biased opinion is we should provide education, professional development
25:17
Speaker 2: that is about mental health and early intervention science, understanding
25:21
Speaker 2: it better in yourself and others. Whether that's in the
25:24
Speaker 2: companies or in the schools or in a I don't know,
25:29
Speaker 2: our community center, or in an after school program, like,
25:32
Speaker 2: all of the adults should be trained on this and
25:35
Speaker 2: this should be a part of their professional development. You
25:38
Speaker 2: can call it a benefit, call it whatever you want,
25:40
Speaker 2: but this is a place where people can demonstrate increase awareness,
25:46
Speaker 2: where they can support others better, and we also know
25:49
Speaker 2: that their own well being increases. There's over well almost
25:53
Speaker 2: half a century of research on mental health education, which
25:56
Speaker 2: is also known as psycho education, and the scientific literature
26:00
Speaker 2: which really demonstrates people do better. Teachers do better, military
26:05
Speaker 2: veterans do better, policymakers do better, marketing professionals do better.
26:11
Speaker 2: And so when we're seeing that people are starting to
26:13
Speaker 2: do better, we know there is a financial positive outcome
26:17
Speaker 2: out of that as well. I was just that the
26:19
Speaker 2: NAMI Convention, which is for anybody who doesn't know, it's
26:22
Speaker 2: the National Alliance for Mental Illness. I gave a talk
26:25
Speaker 2: there where I'm talking about, you know, what are the
26:27
Speaker 2: financial benefits of providing mental health education to caregivers and
26:33
Speaker 2: also other groups. So that's my very biased opinion that
26:36
Speaker 2: we should all be having this mental health education. Some
26:41
Speaker 2: of the other things that I enjoy seeing and I
26:44
Speaker 2: think we could benefit from more are the more collaborative
26:48
Speaker 2: care models that are happening across school systems but also
26:52
Speaker 2: are starting to be offered, for example, like coaching services
26:55
Speaker 2: and therapy services to companies, where we're seeing that student
27:00
Speaker 2: can more easily access treatment when they need it. It's
27:03
Speaker 2: more individualized it's more long term. That's a large shift
27:08
Speaker 2: in how it's been done before, where normally you were
27:11
Speaker 2: relying on your individual insurance to go and see therapy.
27:15
Speaker 2: So now tying in therapy into the workplace and into
27:19
Speaker 2: also the school place, I think, are you know, dramatic
27:23
Speaker 2: improvements as well that I think we should be pushing forward?
27:27
Speaker 1: Interesting that you know there has there oftentimes has to
27:33
Speaker 1: be this uh financial reason the benefit that we have
27:38
Speaker 1: to learn about, you know, uh our mental health. Yeah, look,
27:48
Speaker 1: you're the work you're doing is incredible. I mean it's
27:51
Speaker 1: so friggin inspiring. You are inspiring. So people listening to this,
27:58
Speaker 1: therapists of all kinds and survivors, what do you think
28:05
Speaker 1: they need to know to facilitate to help educate their clients,
28:13
Speaker 1: their family members, etc.
28:17
Speaker 2: I think the one thing I would say to that
28:21
Speaker 2: specific question is that education really works. When we educate
28:26
Speaker 2: people about mental health, they typically will start doing better.
28:31
Speaker 2: They'll start being better at taking their medications, they'll start
28:33
Speaker 2: being better at seeking effective treatment, they will get better finances,
28:39
Speaker 2: they do better. So even if you feel like that's
28:42
Speaker 2: not worthy of your time, please think again, because it
28:46
Speaker 2: is worthy of your time. It's worthy of their time too,
28:49
Speaker 2: and anybody out there who is in recovery right now,
28:52
Speaker 2: I would highly encourage you to educate yourself about what's
28:56
Speaker 2: going on with you and do it from all the
28:58
Speaker 2: different angles and possibilities that seem right to you. It's
29:03
Speaker 2: it's really it could be a game changer, and for
29:05
Speaker 2: most people it is. And there I'm not just saying
29:07
Speaker 2: this from my own anecdotal experiences. We have almost half
29:11
Speaker 2: a century of research demonstrating that this works. It's completely
29:15
Speaker 2: bonders that it's not already a part of you know,
29:19
Speaker 2: the way that we talk in our culture, So please
29:22
Speaker 2: start doing that for yourself and others.
29:25
Speaker 1: Ranilla, you mom of mind Blossom. How do people get
29:30
Speaker 1: in contact with you?
29:32
Speaker 2: Yeah? So you can always check out our website mind
29:36
Speaker 2: blossom dot org and please feel free to send me
29:39
Speaker 2: an email anytimes. It's my first name, p E. R
29:43
Speaker 2: N I L L E at mind blossom dot org.
29:46
Speaker 2: So pretty simple. But if you want to skip my
29:49
Speaker 2: first name, you can also just send an email to
29:51
Speaker 2: info at mind blossom.
29:53
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll have those linked up here at the Schooneres
29:55
Speaker 1: page at the Trauma Thepist podcast dot com. Pranila, Thanks
29:58
Speaker 1: so much for coming back, love talking to you, welcome
30:02
Speaker 1: back anytime.
30:03
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I really for see being here.
30:06
Speaker 1: Take care bye,