Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Stand By Me (1986) - Rob Reiner | Houselights #129

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Stand By Me (1986) - Rob Reiner | Houselights #129 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Welcome to the nerd Polity Golly It's House Lights, and this time around we
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are continuing with our exploration of House of Ryner Rob Reiner's movies of the nineteen
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eighties. I am John Mills here to take you on a tour with two
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of my friends on a viewing of stand By Me, the nineteen eighties classic
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question Mark film that is about the right of passage of four boys on the
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search for a dead body, surprisingly based on a novella by Stephen King.
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Who would have figured these things would come together like that? And the two
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gentlemen I referred to earlier, my two friends, my dear friends, are
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Darren Moser, doctor sci Fi himself, and the insane Robin Tristan Riddell.
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Now, gentlemen, I would like to just start this show by saying two
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things. One that we would really appreciate people going to Apple Podcasts and giving
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us a rating and review. That would be really great. And the other
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thing is that we can't find out pennies. We need reviews. While I
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consider you both friends, I don't believe that I would ever walk anywhere to
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search for a dead body with the two of you. So my first question
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putting it out there, is Tristan, does that mean I'm not really your
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friend? Or is that sort of a silly thing to ask? No?
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I think if I think it proves that you are a real friend, because
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if you asked me to do that as a test, I would say,
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who do you think you're talking to? I get tired on Fridays. Let's
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let's call again at the end of the weekend and see if we still want
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to do this. So, no, you're you're a true friend. It's
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like buty ask you to go camping. I say, don't you care about
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me? Why would you ask me that? Yeah? I think that's a
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very valid point because you know, camping like our forebears makes no sense because
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if our forebears had access to the technology that we do, they wouldn't choose
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to camp either. So, Darren, do you fall into the body exploration
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camp or would you just call the cops? I mean it reminds me of
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in Back to the Future three, you run for fun, like, yeah,
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yeah, no, why would we why would we do that? I'm
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a little more enjoying the outdoors, but yeah, just none of them had
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a compass. Guys like that feels like a thing you would need, like
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they're they're really lucky. They didn't get lost in those woods, like really
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lucky. Like even if it was just like a cracker jack ring, just
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anything anything, anything, a flashlight, even like they had bub kiss,
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I would, I would imagine, but they had a gun. Well you
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know, I mean they didn't have a flashlight, they didn't have a compass.
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But by golly basis, they also did not have food. They also
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did not have food. I mean they had children shoot chosen food, so
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I mean not real food. Yeah, you know that's but we are actually
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exploring a movie that can be viewed as contentious. I know that some people
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don't love this movie. I know that I grew up in the era where
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this movie was. It was one of those movies that was like, um,
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you know it. It was like Grease. It didn't really matter whether
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you liked it or not. Everybody watched it, especially on home video,
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and a friend would see it and they wouldn't have you go find a dead
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body, but they would show you this movie about people looking for a dead
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body and it was just a thing that happened. But Darren, this is
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your first view, and you shared that before we started recording. So my
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first question to kick things off is we we talked about This Is Spinal Tap.
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Then we talked about The Shore Thing, and we said that felt more
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like the first movie. When you look at Stand by Me, do you
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see the director of This Is Spinal Tap? Or do you see the director
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of the Shore Thing? Oh Man, that's a good question. I was
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going to start off with saying, I'm getting directing quality whiplash because it feels
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like we're up, We're up, We're forward and back and side to side.
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And because if you gave me just the slice of these last three films
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for rub right now, I'd be like, what what is going on?
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Because we get Spinal Tap, we get we would all kind of agreed that
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the Sure Thing was like, yeah, just what was that? But this
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movie it's like and then he went to film school and learned how to toude
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do a good film and then you get this now. I granted, I
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do feel that part of this movie is probably one of those lightning in a
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bottle like you had the right cast like that, it's like eighty percent of
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your formula, you know, you got out of their way. I mean,
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you're directing kids which on its own is really difficult. Could easily go
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sideways. But yeah, it's really hard to compare these three because I mean,
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you know, you have the John Cusack connection, I guess, but
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no, I feel like it's almost like three different stabs at the target.
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You know, three different arrows and they're all kind of hitting the target.
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But if you ask me what caused them to hit the target in different ways,
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that's a more difficult question one will answer here. On house Lights,
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well, I think the first thing to address is you talk about directing Whiplash.
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I think that the one thing that definitely stands out in Tristan. I'd
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love to get your take on this is I think that the visual quality,
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at least of Reyner's movies very much depends on his cinematographer, because this time
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around he has the director of photography from The Breakfast Club, which, regardless
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of what you think of the rest of the movie, is shot pretty darn
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well. And you have this, which I agree with Darren, is a
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marked improvement from the sure Thing. You said the sure Thing was a TV
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movie like as far as composition and quality, and it felt like lighting.
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This feels like a movie like it is it is a beautiful it's all outdoors.
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It's a gorgeous movie just from the get go. Yeah, that's that's
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the thing about this is that like being outdoors really helps you with your lighting
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scenario. I mean, like obviously you still have to know what you're doing.
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You still have to you know, flag certain things and position things and
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everything like that, but it definitely makes it easier to light cinematically when you're
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outdoors, when you have that giant sunbeam in the sky, but even even
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at night, like at nighttime, like with the campfire scenes and went during
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the lookout scenes and everything like that, like it was shot and when um,
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when Will Wheaton was in his brother's room, you know, the the
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nostalgia that they felt like the like the sun coming into the room and felt
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very old and remembered and lived in at the same time. It was it
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was perfect. It was perfect, and you could you could feel the memories
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even before they showed the flashback, like you could feel that someone had lived
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in this room and that Wheaton was remembering his brother. And Yeah, this
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was far and away different from I mean spinal type of spinal tap. It's
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a documentary. It's supposed to look that way now see the sure thing.
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This is far and away from how the sure Thing looked. See. What's
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interesting, though, is there were moments where I felt like some of the
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sensibility of this is spinal tap crept back in, where some of the camera
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movements felt a little more document harrian than the sort of typical locked off not
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not across the board, but there were certain shots where it felt like it
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was Rhiner maybe communicating that he wanted to get back to that more. Everybody
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abuses the hell out of this term, but I'll go ahead and do it
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anyway. The handheld feel you know that that's sort of more um spontaneous shot,
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that sort of spontaneous energy that you can get. There were a couple
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of moments where it felt like that, where where that came across not consistently
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though, so well, I'll agree with you, Tristan, like the like
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the two things you mentioned are so important. One, I love the fact
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that I could see at the nighttime shot like I didn't even I just I
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just took it for granted, because nowadays so many nighttime shots has got to
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feel like the dead of night, no moon and the candle is all that
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you have like, you know, no, I just want to see.
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I want to see what's going on. It could be dark, it could
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be and and I never felt like I forgot what it was like back in
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the eighties and nineties when we made nighttime shots and we just didn't care about
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the pseudo realism of darkness. It's okay, so I love that, and
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I love your house right now to beat you up. Okay, okay,
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yeah you hear that sounds I don't even care. But also, like you
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mentioned, because I hadn't really thought too much about the flashback shots, but
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you know, flashback shots can also be tricky. You have to you know,
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you don't want to smear a ton of vasoline on the lens and be
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like, oh, it's a it's a you know, it's it's a transition
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effect. But yeah, how do you shoot it just off enough that you
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know that this isn't just another scene and like why is his brother not in
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the next shot? You know, like, actually that the effect of the
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flashback is an art that we probably don't give enough credit to, and I
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think he does beautifully with this. And again, everything you're saying is great,
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trusted on the fact that even before the flashback when he we know that
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that's his brother's room, like before he even opens the door, the way
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he approaches it, and at the end of the scene in the way his
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dad's like, okay, you found it, Like get out of here,
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you know it. That's a great you know, it's an interesting juxtaposition of
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that shot, which I think worked really really well. And I know it's
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not a flashback. I know it's a different but it makes me think of
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in the Sandlot the first time that Smalls goes into his dad's office and I
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get like zero connection that this is a special room. It just feels like
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a room that has baseball stuff and there's no magic of his father in it.
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Versus this one, I feel like there's history and there's you know,
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that glow like you were talking about. I don't know why. I just
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was thinking of another you know, walking into a room that's supposed to have
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some sort of connection and be special. So good job, good job,
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Rob. Yeah, well, I mean it's Thomas del Ruth and just as
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you know, a passing comment. He was also the director of photography on
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a charming, charmingly weird horror movie called Motel Hell, which starred former cowboy
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legend Rory Calhoun in his elder years, and an unknown John Ratzenberger is one
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of the victims. So if you would like to see something else that was
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photographed by Thomas del Ruth, go to nineteen eighties Motel Hell. But you
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know, the photography is one thing. But I would say that this is
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another film of rners where the cast is even more integral than anything, because
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I would say, if you look at this script, there's nothing particularly special
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about it, and if it were not for the performances of the four main
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players, and one in particular, I would argue that this film doesn't find
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the footing that it does with so many people, because this is a movie
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that has, you know, mid nineties approval by both critics and audiences on
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Rotten Tomatoes. Tristan, do you think that do you think that it's the
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strength of the story and the photography and everything else working together, or do
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you think it's the power of these four child actors that really carry the film.
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I think it's definitely the actors. I mean, I mean this is
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a this is a well crafted film. From a technical standpoint, I think
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it's well edited. Uh well, I should say, it's well edited from
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shot to shot, and it's a it has you know, good music,
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it's it's a it has a great misson scene and you know, it's just
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it's it's fantastically laid out to the point where whether you live through that error
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or not, I mean none of us did, but you feel like you
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could. You know, like even if you grew up in a big city
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with millions of people, you you feel like you could have grown up in
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that place. You could have grown up in Castle Rock. And but the
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the the actors definitely said, I mean, every single one of the actors
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are fantastic. There's a reason why all of these actors continued acting for a
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while, and because they're they're phenomenal, phenomenal and what they do. But
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I think more so than the performances, more so than the than the technical
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qualities, I think it's really just the the ability that that Reiner and company
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putting putting being twelve in front of the lens. I think that's really what
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it is that made it so popular, is that, like they didn't shy
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away from the gross crap that twelve year olds say, and and how immature
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they are and how intense, their emotions can be where they can be crying
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one moment and then elated in the next. All of this was laid out,
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and I think that's these are I think these are positives as well as
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negatives for the film. But I think the nostalgia of being that young,
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at least from someone who looks like me and grew up like me, has
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I think it connected with a lot of people on a multigenerational level. Yeah,
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Darren, do you feel that this is a real world that you're looking
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at? Do you feel that this is something that could have actually happened or
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does this feel too contrived? No? I think the brilliance of the story
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is that it's huntingly simple. It's it's not like, oh, you know,
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I get a lot of Goonies comparison vibes. You know, which a
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film I recently showed my kids and which obviously is a comedy, you know,
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versus this is not a kind of this is you know, this is
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a drama. But it isn't like, oh, we got to save the
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town from the prospector who's back and like, no, it's just we want
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to go look, we heard there's a cool thing over there. We want
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to go check it out, and like that's life, is that simple of
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just you know, and then so you have this really simple framework the finding
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of the body and you. But then, like Tristan was saying, those
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moments where the boys are being really honest with each other and talking about you
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know, they're all talking about their dads and their home lives and how terrible
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they are, and you know, about moving on through grades and you know,
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they're not all in the same class, so they're not going to see
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each other all the time, and you know it. I don't feel like
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from my experience, I don't think everybody has a super tight group of ends
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from that age on, you know, especially boys, Like if that happens
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to you, you're really lucky, like I have. You know, can
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count on one hand, you know, the number of guys that I still
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remotely keep in contact with from high school onward. Let alone. You know
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at that now that can happen. You can have like a lifelong friend that
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really connects with you in elementary or middle school, but it doesn't happen all
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the time. But no, but the performances were amazing. I was really
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impressed. Yeah, and one that I want to, you know, call
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to special attention, because it is a I actually think it's a very painful
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thing to watch a movie like Stand by Me when you see the raw talent
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that somebody like River Phoenix had at such a young age, and to think
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that that it's it's so awful to boil down somebody's life to what they could
16:59
contribute to a specific field. But at the same time, when you see
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what was on track to become an absolutely legendary talent, whether it's River Phoenix,
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whether it's Heath Ledger, whether it's you know, there are a couple
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of football players I can think of where they were cut down very young,
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and you think, to yourself, my goodness, if they had just made
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it just to their old age, what a thing would have been. But
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Tristan, does that happen with you when you look and when you see River
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Phoenix's performance, is there any sort of pang? Because I would argue that
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as strong as the cast is from top to bottom in this film, it's
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River Phoenix that gives it that nudge that pushes it forward. His performance as
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Chris, I think is very necessary since Chris's death as an adult is the
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inciting reason for the telling of this story. Well, I think Rob Reiner
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was right to put River Phoenix as Chris instead of Cordy because he originally auditioned
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for Gordy. And I think a lot of probably a lot of a lot
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of kids did thinking that, oh, Gordy's going to be the focal point,
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and Gordy is the protagonist, but Chris is the emotional bedrock of the
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of the of the piece and kind of the the inciting incident, you know.
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It's his death is used as the framing device that pushes Um the writer
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to write the story. And I think I don't necessarily, I don't.
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I don't feel a paying any more, you know when I see River Phoenix,
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I mean like I have that thought of like, man, we only
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have so many performances, you know, like we we have a handful of
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performances, and so many of them are our stellar um. Because I've seen
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I think I've seen every one of his movies. Um, I'm I'm used
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to seeing that face and thinking, man, that that's a damn shame.
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So it's I can't I can't say that I dwell on it, but it's
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um, it doesn't enhance or take away the feeling when I when I watched
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this movie. That's fair. That answers your question. Now, that's fair,
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and Darren to flip over because we're all Star Trek fans of varying degrees
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seeing Will Wheaton in this role. Do you see in his performance as Gordy
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something that would have given a casting agent the reason to say, we've got
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a new Star Trek series coming. That's the kid I want. As Wesley?
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Do you see something special enough in his performance that it makes sense why
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his career took a certain trajectory. Yeah, I think so. It's it's
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so weird because I feel it feels almost reversed where I mean, I love
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his performance in stand By Me, and it feels like, you know,
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by comparison in Star Trek the next narration. I know, he's older,
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you know, and a little bit of a different person because of you know,
20:06
life and all of that, but it feels like he was given nothing
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in Star Trek, like like like he had the chops, like so,
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I don't you know, I know, people like to rag on Wesley and
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all of that, and I feel totally the downfall of the character, not
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the actor. The character is what the writers put into it, Like I
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think if they had gone found found what they really wanted him to be and
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been on the more dramatic side, be the stressed out team, who is
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like, of course I got to excel. You know, my my mother's
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like the head of star Fleet Medical and I'm on a starship. Like look
20:48
at the pressure. Now, obviously that's not star trek, and that's because
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that's conflict, which makes good story writing. So it just, oh,
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I almost feel like, man, you wasted him. You had this good
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actor and you wasted him with you know, playing with icelinear chips and Wonderkin
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stories and stuff like that. Look at this dramatic actor you had. Look
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at this guy who can say more in silence than many actors can say with
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a whole page of dialogue. Tristan, do you think that because I took
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a little passive shot at the script earlier? Do you think that to Darren's
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point, because we've seen Will Wheaton in a role where the writers obviously didn't
21:30
know what to do with somebody who was not an adult. They didn't know
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how to write for it. Am I too hard on the script? Is
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this a script that knows how to write for children, or do you think
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that this is more a director who gets the performance as necessary out of a
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you know, basically looks at the script and says, Okay, this is
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how I'm going to get those kids to give me what I need for the
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film. Well, I think it's definitely a symbiotic relationship because I feel like
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you can't really have one without the other. And we've seen other child centered
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pictures, you know, a Stories written by Stephen King, and we know
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that sometimes he can write for children, sometimes he can sometimes he gets super
22:15
weird and in an odd direction. I think that the star of that is
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Yner. I think from reading all the behind the scenes and the biography stuff
22:29
and the anniversary stuff and directors commentaries, I mean like cast commentaries and everything
22:34
like that, it really shines a light on how much Rob Ryner put into
22:41
this picture and into the preparation, into the production and the post production.
22:45
And he really kind of mentor these kids, treated them like kids, but
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at the same time as professionals like he. I should say, he treated
22:53
them like adults but allowed them to be kids at the same time, if
22:56
that makes sense. And I think he trusted them to do what they needed
23:02
to do, and so I really think Ryner brought out these performances. I
23:06
mean, you've got to have that base of the script. I personally don't
23:07
like the script. I think it's lazy. I think it's it's two bare
23:12
bones. But I feel like the directing and the acting makeup for the lack
23:22
of story. I'm glad you said that because a lot of times through the
23:26
years, because I am the old man of the show, I felt very
23:29
much on an island about this movie in some of the criticisms that I've had.
23:33
And I'll borrow a line from a mutual friend of ours, a fellow
23:37
nerd party or Mike Schindler, when he was talking about a different movie with
23:41
me, where I was asking him should I go see it? He said,
23:44
sure, but it's not really about anything. And I would say,
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that's the core issue here is that I'm not sure what this movie is about.
23:55
It it's an event, but there's no moment here that I can hang
24:00
my hat on and say this is talking about a seminal moment of awakening for
24:08
kids in general that I can I can hold on to and say, yeah,
24:14
I remember that moment where I realized X, Y or Z about life.
24:18
I think it tries to get there, but I don't think it quite
24:22
gets there. And I think that where the movie is saved is in the
24:27
four leads as well as key for Sutherland, and the antagonists are fantastic and
24:36
Ryner's ability to get what he needs from them. But I don't think he's
24:41
done any favors by the script. And I could see very easily one or
24:45
two different casting choices. And this is a movie that everybody says, yeah,
24:48
it's okay, loving it. Yeah, yeah, I think you know.
24:55
I often we'll talk about the scenes where you could definitely tell that the
25:02
actor or actor group was let loose to improv We talked about it with Peter
25:07
Sellers and in some movies that that really doesn't work. I felt I felt
25:15
like in at least in this viewing, and that might change on subsequent viewings.
25:21
I felt like you had a really strong script, not in the overall
25:26
plot. Like I agree with you guys, but I'm saying as far as
25:29
the boys, like each boy was very fleshed out, like they they knew
25:34
this is this boy, this is this boy, Like they're not the same
25:37
kid, They're not just different slices of the same thing. And I felt
25:41
like the improv, because I'm sure there was to a degree some was it
25:48
felt polished, which is weird because it's improv and and you get flexibility.
25:55
And I feel like that lends itself to the the boys because you know they
26:03
are they're acting obviously, but they are able to improv in a way that
26:07
just ride the line and feels I never got pulled out and felt like,
26:15
oh, well, the fire scene, you know where they're all around the
26:17
fireplace, that's obviously they're just joking around, Like, yeah, they are
26:21
joking around. But I felt the bar for improv was pretty solid throughout the
26:26
entire movie. Again on first viewing, but I felt like that's a testament
26:32
to these child actors because they you know, they were acting the whole time.
26:37
I felt that's I guess what I'm trying to say. You imagine the
26:41
campfire scene. And I have a very distinct problem with vomit humor. Typically.
26:48
I remember when I was forced to watch Pitch Perfect, which is a
26:53
god awful movie, and there was a scene involving vomit in that if you
26:59
haven't seen it, don't watch it, not worth it, And I almost
27:03
got ill watching it. But this vomit scene seems to play really well with
27:10
a lot of people, and you know, it's it's the scene where where
27:14
Gordy is telling the story about the castor oil and the pie eating contest and
27:17
everything, and people puking on each other. Tristan, I don't have as
27:22
much of a problem with this vomit scene as I do with typical vomit scenes.
27:27
And I'm going to say the word vomit as many times counter I just
27:32
I want to say vomit, puke, hurl, spew, however you want
27:37
to say it. I remember like, um, you and I were watching
27:41
The Righteous Gemstones. Um, yes, I text you. I was just
27:48
like, wasn't that episode amazing? Oh my god, that was a hilarious
27:52
episode. And You're like, I didn't like it. I'm like, what
27:53
are you talking about? That was one of the best episodes they ever made.
27:57
You're like, on the first scene they had vomiting and I didn't like
28:00
it. Psychoanalyze me here, why does this vomit scene play okay with me?
28:07
When so many other vomit scenes It's yeah, it's so cartoony, it's
28:11
so fake. It's literally the turning sideways and we know there's a hose right
28:17
next to his mouth, and it's but pie purple. Yes that. And
28:22
the thing is I think that is the thing. I think that's why the
28:25
vomit scene crosses the line for so many people like myself, is because it's
28:30
like watching a family guy vomit scene where it's so absurd that you laugh at
28:37
its just saying that Peter called amulets. Oh my god, I don't want
28:47
to I don't want to do Sorry, if you haven't seen that scene,
28:52
folks, do yourself a favor. Family guy vomit castor oil anyway. Um,
28:59
So okay, So I accept that though because it's it's very technicolor,
29:03
it's very obviously a fantasy sort of scene. But one thing that I think
29:10
plays odd Darren is the presence of the gun. And I'm not trying to
29:17
get into any controversial territory this way or that, but I would argue,
29:21
actually that the presence of the gun is unnecessary to this story, and in
29:26
fact, the ending would be improved if Chris is standoff with Kiefer. Sutherland's
29:33
Ace was simply to say you're not going to do it, and Ace stands
29:38
down and says you're not worth it, and that becomes a moment where we
29:44
say, that's why later in life, Chris sort of uses the same gambit,
29:48
and that's why he winds up losing, because that's what happens is he
29:52
tries to break up an argument and he comes to harm as a result.
29:57
And we could see an insight incident from his childhood where he called that bluff
30:03
and it worked, and so he operated under the false presumption that it would
30:08
work again. Do you agree with me on that or do you think that
30:12
the gun is necessary to all the stuff that happens here. I mean,
30:17
you see what you're saying, and I don't think, at least what is
30:22
presented, there's enough of the future time to really even pay off on that.
30:26
It's it's all audio, it's him just writing his story, Like we
30:30
don't see the standoff. Personally. I felt the scene worked as it was
30:37
where because a very tense scene because I'm kind of almost thinking like okay,
30:42
like like does he shoot him? Like maybe not fatally, but you know
30:48
he is like that. I mean, it's a masterfully acted scene. Will
30:53
Whedon is like dead eye staring him down, and I'm like the quiet intensity,
31:00
Yeah, that and then the gun earlier. Yeah, Like that's the
31:03
thing is like that moment right there, that quiet intensity, that ferocity underneath,
31:10
you could just feel all that pain underneath coming out and he's trying to
31:15
keep it down, and you're just like like where was Wesley you know in
31:21
that? You know, like why why couldn't we access that? You know?
31:22
Like that's that's immediately the moment that I was thinking of. So I
31:26
feel, I feel the scene works. Honestly, I don't. I wouldn't
31:32
buy Ace keep for Sutherland backing down just from anything the boys had said.
31:37
He's been so presented as the I do what I want. I'm backed with
31:41
my homies like like, yeah, he it. The gun in that moment,
31:48
to me represented the power of adulthood that the boys don't have. They
31:55
aren't bigger, they aren't stronger. They have words, but so does the
32:00
gang. The gun was the leveler of the playing field because it was the
32:07
only thing that gave Ace pause. So I just honestly, he could have
32:13
given the best speech ever, and I don't think I would have bought it.
32:17
I would have been like, why don't you just like why what?
32:20
Why is this bully backing down, but let me turn that on its head.
32:23
Then that he gives the best speech ever and it still plays out as
32:28
an echo of what goes wrong in the future, and his brother Eyeball winds
32:32
up being the one that stops things from happening. So he's given the idea
32:38
that if he speaks words that are right, one of the people will or
32:45
I'll stop or I'll combine it. What if we did this, I mean,
32:47
because I don't know why we're rewriting the scene, but what if he
32:51
gives the speech but Gordy is like five paces behind him with the gun.
32:55
He doesn't see that Gordy has the gun, but Ace does and so it's
33:01
and we've seen this kind of thing play out in many movies where so from
33:05
Chris's perspective, he's like, oh my gosh, my words stopped him.
33:09
But what really stopped him was the gun that you know that Gordy had aimed
33:15
at his head, at Ace's head the entire time. So and and because
33:19
you know he's and for some reason, you know, Chris doesn't realize that,
33:22
and it's never revealed. So that leads to your thought, John,
33:27
of in the future, then he thinks, oh, I still have this.
33:30
I can talk someone out of a situation, but Gordy isn't there with
33:34
a gun backing him up unbeknownst U. I mean, it's it's a bit
33:37
to rewrite. Like I don't necessarily say it's a better scene. It's just
33:42
kind of but I feel like a kind of robbing. You guys are kind
33:45
of robbing Gordy of a fantastic moment there. I don't want to change the
33:50
scene. I'm just I'm just no, no, Like I get it,
33:53
Like John, I totally get that instinct to to remove the gun. And
34:00
um, you know, as a bleeding heart liberal, you know, that
34:02
was my first instinct too. But at the same time, though, it
34:08
kind of made me laugh a little bit because when they introduced the gun,
34:13
Like when I first watched it, when they introduced the gun, I was
34:15
just like, oh, it's it's like a literal check offs gun. Okay,
34:16
so we're going to see this later on and um, but when that
34:21
happened, I just started I was like, so is the message here that
34:24
all you need to get rid of bullies is a loaded gun? And it
34:30
made me think of American American dad quote where um, his son goes up
34:37
to him and says like, hey, hey, dad, like, can
34:39
you teach me how to how to defend myself? Like can I take up
34:43
karate? And he's like, he's like, there's one thing you gotta know,
34:45
and he pulls out his gun. He's like, gun beats karate every
34:50
time, which actually is an echo of the movie Black Belt Jones from the
34:57
nineteen seventies where somebody says, you're match for my gun food so you know,
35:02
or in um not done of the dead the towards Clooney Tarantino from From
35:12
Dust Till Dawn From Dust Till Dawn, um, And when he says he
35:15
says he pulls out his gun. He's like, I got six little friends
35:17
and they all run faster than you. Hm uh yeah, anyway like that.
35:23
Yeah, It's just I I wish there was more of a message of
35:29
you can stand up to bullies, you can have that intense moment, you
35:32
can move forward, you can you can be the person you are, and
35:37
you can you know right the wrongs without a gun. I very much would
35:40
prefer that message. Um, but I very much like the moment that Gordy
35:46
has where like both because you have Chris who stands up to him wherecause Chris
35:52
is the one who says, you know, like, no, this is
35:54
this is not happening. Like you can tell you can see the fear in
35:57
his eyes, but he's like, he's like, no, I'm taking a
35:59
stand. Even if I get hurt from this, I'm taking a stand.
36:01
And so he has that moment. Then Gorty comes in and has his moment
36:05
of that quiet intensity. But I wish there was a way we could have
36:08
both. But I don't know at this moment. I just I, you
36:12
know, I just I think that it speaks to my desire to have It
36:17
has nothing to do with the gun itself. For me, it has everything
36:21
to do with I just I just search for something in this movie to give
36:28
it a The reason he's telling this story is because something in it, he
36:36
feels, tells us what went wrong when Chris tried to stop those those people.
36:43
You know, like, in a sense, you see that Chris is
36:45
actually good person. You see that everybody was wrong about Chris. But it's
36:51
not like we knew Chris before this story was told. And I just want
36:57
to see something in it that seeks to why he would because I like to
37:05
think the three of us are decent people, but we wouldn't. We would
37:08
size up a situation maybe a little differently, you know, given given a
37:15
moment. I'm having a little bit of trouble putting it into words, but
37:19
I think you kind of know what I'm going for with that, where it's
37:22
it's just that that maybe that's it. What I'm going for is I'm not
37:28
entirely certain why this specific story would be evoked by Chris's death later in life.
37:37
I guess I kind of ignore it just because I don't really care about
37:43
the framing device, Like, yeah, it starts off with you know,
37:47
I'm like, oh my gosh, it's Richard Dreyfuss, I didn't know you
37:51
were in this movie. And then it's like, oh, he's remembering the
37:52
time, and then you know, you have the kind of the code at
37:55
the end where he's talking about his friend, and like I get that,
37:59
and it's not bad. Add I just I could almost not even have it,
38:02
like it's just a story, like without any of the narration or the
38:07
framing device, Like I think it doesn't necessarily add anything that this core story
38:13
is missing, right, Like maybe maybe maybe maybe that's what it is is
38:20
this movie works fine, without the narration, and maybe that's what disconnects with
38:27
me. It's like when movies feel they have to change the timeline of something
38:31
and like everything's all of a sudden flashbacked and like a little chunk throughout,
38:35
and like just show it, just show it in order, like you know.
38:38
But what's what's interesting, what's interesting is the Princess Bride, which we're
38:44
barrowing toward right now, is the same sort of principle of having somebody narrating
38:49
a thing, explaining why we're hearing the story. Well, I mean that's
38:52
literally a bedtime story. But you're not right, But but there's we'll get
38:58
to it, obviously, but I think it'll be very interesting to contrast how
39:01
those framing devices work with relation to the main story that we're getting and what
39:08
we might see from Rhiner in that. But was Wesley all along? Yeah?
39:15
Right? Obviously with the title stand by Me, and of course ending
39:22
with the classic Benny King's song and my own personal passion for movie scores and
39:30
soundtracks and those sorts of things, Tristan, do you feel that this is
39:36
a successful score, this is a successful use of stand by Me? Is
39:44
there anything about this score that strikes you as special or resonant with the story
39:50
that it's paired with. No, not really. I know you your question
39:55
is probably longer than my answer, but there's certain I always feel like the
39:59
wrong person to ask this question, too, because there's so many times when
40:05
I don't notice it, Like unless the score is bombastic or or kind of
40:09
a new wave or weird or unique, I don't really notice it too terribly
40:15
much. I feel like so many scores kind of blend together and just fade
40:20
into the background because sometimes they just kind of have to have an emotional hit
40:23
here and there. Sometimes they just kind of have to have an undercurrent that
40:27
you don't really notice. And I feel like this is one of those,
40:30
Like unless you're watching something like you know, like Annihilation with Natalie Portman that
40:35
came out, you know where where the you have this music that kind of
40:38
drones and just like overtakes the scene something like that, like or if it's
40:43
a Star Trek film. But for No, to me, this was just
40:47
fine. It's not it wasn't bad as long as I'm not thinking like,
40:52
oh, good lord, like this is worse than the Thomas Crown affair.
40:54
But I thought it was fine, Okay, fair enough. I mean,
40:59
I like the that the main theme was used throughout, but very very subtly,
41:04
like it was just the couple of chords, like really subtle. It
41:09
wasn't ntil the very end where they actually go into the song, which I
41:13
felt was appropriate. Like I think if every time they get nostalgic, like
41:16
the whole song starts to play, that's a bit much. So I felt
41:21
they did a good job with that. And obviously there's other music in the
41:23
in the picture, but it was very subtle. So speaking of you know,
41:30
use and subtlety, the cursing here is a little less than subtle and
41:37
perhaps a little shocking when it comes to, you know, certain moments and
41:42
the way the way boys talk at that age. So I have to ask
41:46
the two of you, because neither one of you really were beer shotgunners when
41:51
we talked about that during the sure thing. We're either one of you as
41:54
foul mouthed as this when you were this age, no, not even a
42:00
little. I mean, you know, like I was an idiot, just
42:04
like every twelve year old boy, you know, like I said gross things,
42:07
that did gross things, and I made gross jokes and I would swear
42:13
every once in a while, but it wasn't a I don't know, I
42:16
don't remember doing it that much. I think one thing that this, I
42:25
gotta be honest, like with this movie, that was one thing that really
42:30
turned me off was I don't really like kids in movies. I don't like
42:35
you guys know this about me, Like, I don't like child actors.
42:37
Well, here's an entire movie without in movies. But yeah, yeah,
42:43
exactly. That's the thing is that I've never really I don't I've worked with
42:46
kid actors and I can't stand kid actors and seeing them on screen. Most
42:53
of like i'd say nine percent of the time, I don't like seeing kids
42:58
on screen because I don't feel like they can act. Now, thankfully,
43:00
these kids can act, but these personalities were so off putting. These kids
43:07
were so off putting to me and obnoxious and uninteresting and vulgar and foul mouth
43:13
that I did not have a good time watching it. Like, I can
43:16
recognize that the performances were good, but that style of twelve year old is
43:24
annoying to me. No matter how realistic the portrayal might be, it's annoying
43:30
to me. And also I thought there was a lot of portentousness, and
43:35
some of these scenes where like it felt like a Zach Braff film where they're
43:43
just like, oh my god, this moment of our lives is so important
43:50
and I'm going to talk really soft like this because I'm saying something important.
43:58
And there was they were like weird chemistry between Gordian Chris, especially towards the
44:04
end, where it's just like, what are they going for here? This
44:07
is strange, Like they're just like it's it's like these kids at the end
44:12
knew they were being filmed, and so they tried to ham it up at
44:15
the end and really sell the emotion. It's just I couldn't stand these characters
44:21
interesting because these characters, I can honestly say I knew variations of these people
44:27
growing up. So maybe that's just me. You know, I did too,
44:31
and I didn't like those people. I was related to a lot of
44:35
them. But you know, as we as we come here to sort of
44:40
the you know, as we're barreling toward the inevitable conclusion of our discussion,
44:46
Darren, you know, in terms of that though, do you think that
44:57
the cursing and some of the crassness is authentic or do you think that it's
45:02
one of the shortcomings of the script where they too wrote for a more adult
45:09
sensibility, and maybe it was Rhyner that reined it in and made it feel
45:15
more childlike. It's it's hard to say because I also was not, you
45:19
know, a person who swear a lot growing up. And it's like,
45:23
it's not like kids like that didn't exist. It's just if you were in
45:29
a group like that, this movie is going to hit you on a totally
45:31
different level than if you weren't. Like you kind of it's like a divide
45:35
you kind of can't not that you can't relate, but you know, and
45:42
the fact that they're all like that, like they're all you know, I'm
45:45
yes, granted before I said, like they're not all the same character.
45:49
They're all very different, Like yeah, but in some ways there are all
45:52
the same kind of the same character. Like there's not one of them that
45:54
dresses differently, you know, like maybe where's you know, button up shirts
45:59
or something you know, a little more clean cut, or one that just
46:02
doesn't swear at all, Like they're all because this is the you know,
46:09
trailing end of a author writing a book, writing which goes to a script
46:15
which goes to an actor like you know, you're you're downstream of all these
46:22
elements trying to create this child character that is also being acted by a child,
46:27
And so I don't know, like how much resolution you're going to really
46:30
get. And I don't say resolution is in like the plot, as in
46:34
like the clarity of their performances. That's so that it's like, oh,
46:39
if the kids swear, the kids swear like I don't. It's hard to
46:43
it's hard to pull that out from the actor to the character. Really mhm,
46:52
it's it's interesting, it's really. This is ultimately a film that is
46:58
both a good at a page but reveals the shortcomings of some of Stephen King
47:07
as a writer. Because I've read a fair number of Stephen King's stories,
47:12
not everything, I'm not a fanatic about it, but one of King's shortcomings
47:19
is that the characters he writes are who they are because the story needs them
47:23
to be that way, as opposed to feeling like they are characters who exist.
47:29
And I think that there is a little bit of that in this and
47:32
it's something that the script cannot overcome. But then if you compare it to
47:38
an adaptation like the Shawshank Redemption. You see what happens when a director who
47:45
is of a different sort than Rob Ryner, where it can go and how
47:54
much it can elevate itself because the movie becomes about something and the characters take
48:01
on a different quality from the get go. Two interesting trivia tidbits that I
48:09
think are worth mentioning on the way out. One I'm going to have a
48:15
question question with afterward. But the two dollars and thirty seven cents that the
48:22
boys have to buy supplies when they pull it in December of twenty twenty one
48:29
would have had the purchasing power of twenty two dollars and fifty three cents.
48:32
So when Will Wheaton buys all of that food with two dollars and thirty seven
48:37
cents, it's important to remember that adjusted for inflation. Yeah, okay,
48:43
it was Actually he could have bought a little more if he wanted to.
48:47
And I'll throw this to you first, Aaron. But apparently Rob Reiner was
48:52
is an avid non smoker, even campaign for anti smoking laws in California and
49:00
insisted that the cigarettes that they smoked in the movie, that these very underage
49:06
kids smoked in the movie, were made from lettuce leaves instead of tobacco leaves.
49:10
Would it Would this film have suffered at all if the kids had simply
49:15
not smoked, as opposed to smoking cigarettes made from lettuce leaves. Do you
49:22
feel that the kids smoking cigarettes is authentic to the era or do you think
49:29
that it is an affectation that could have been discarded? Well, I think
49:35
I mean personally, I not a smoke or I don't like smoking. It
49:37
grossed me out, so I still miss it to this day. For the
49:42
record, I could have, yeah, definitely done without it as far as
49:45
it being needed. So I was trying to do some time maath, my
49:50
favorite kind of math, you know, looking because this was setting like what
49:52
fifty two, I think fifty four something like that. Fifty nine I thought,
50:00
I think it's fifty nine. So you know, between when the movie
50:05
comes out in fifty nine, you're talking about a little under thirty years.
50:08
So when I try to think of that, I try to put myself in
50:12
the context of if there's a nineties movie, like or an early odds movie,
50:17
and their cell phones don't look like, you know, Nokia razors,
50:22
it feels off. So to that point, I feel like it's hard for
50:28
me to answer that question because I'm not in nineteen eighty seven remembering fifty two,
50:32
and did kids smoke in fifty two? Like, if I remember that,
50:36
then yeah, it's going to feel out of place if they don't.
50:38
But I can't answer that because I wasn't, you know, around in fifty
50:43
two. Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean it makes sense.
50:46
The first cigarette I ever smoked I was ten years old at Tristan. What
50:51
about you? Do you feel that the cigarette smoking affectation is necessary? No,
50:55
not at all. Totally could get rid of it. It was distracting.
51:00
I was thinking about how idiotic it is for twelve year olds to smoke
51:05
um the entire time. Whenever I saw it, I was like, this
51:07
is stupid, this is unnecessary, and it's again it's one of those realistic
51:13
betrayals that I just didn't like. I think it. I think it distracted.
51:17
It detracted from the experience for me, but it doesn't necessarily mean that
51:21
it distracted it from everybody. And I mean, like, I knew idiotic
51:24
twelve year olds who smoked, and I think it's it's just there's a difference
51:32
between seeing these twelve year olds at a campfire smoking to seeing everyone in Apollo
51:39
thirteen, in the in the Command in the Man Center smoking, you know,
51:45
like like when you see that kind of setting, you're just like,
51:47
yeah, you know, everybody smoked back then. But then when you see
51:50
four kids alone in the woods, why has that needed? Who are they
51:54
trying to impress each other? But yeah, yeah, what's going on?
51:58
Like are they smoking to unwind after the end of the day? You know,
52:00
come on, Well, I think that Jerry O'Connell's character has a silly
52:07
statement at one point, and it's maybe it's supposed to show that they have
52:15
bad parents that I mean, obviously they don't have the best parents in the
52:21
world, but still it's it does play. It plays as something that was
52:29
grafted on so that people would say, oh, yeah, well, back
52:34
in the fifties things were different as opposed to something that would be like an
52:39
seventeen year old drinking in the early eighties is a decidedly different thing than a
52:47
seventeen year old drinking in nineteen ninety one, because the laws had changed by
52:52
then, and so you have a different connotation to the action. But either
52:58
way, I I don't think that the smoking was necessary, and that's why
53:02
I sort of fixate on it is that, as somebody whom is totally willing
53:10
to sell out this podcast to have Philip Morris sponsor us, if they can
53:17
engineer something that doesn't kill me quickly, that would be fantastic. Please please,
53:25
please, I would I would love something like that. But you know,
53:30
here we are. It's been almost an hour, so we're inevitably at
53:34
the moment time not going on the train track. You know that hour we
53:40
saved, you know, you know, before we before we do this,
53:45
before we have our ratings. Obviously the train track uses a couple of photographic
53:51
effects, but that it also uses I'm gonna go ahead and say it.
53:55
I think that the lighting mismatch on the the blue screen that they have in
54:02
two shots, yeah, something, whatever it was, the lighting mismatch took
54:08
me completely out of the scene. When I was younger and I watched this
54:13
in the eighties, totally didn't notice, was totally caught up in everything.
54:16
As an adult watching this on my television, I just fixated on it and
54:22
I said, oh that the yeah, the the keys are wrong on that.
54:28
The two of you did you also did that take you out or did
54:34
you stay in that that moment that when running down the train tracks and the
54:38
train is coming up behind them. I didn't I didn't notice the rear projection
54:43
shot. I don't notice the depth of field trick of the fact that they're
54:45
not actually right in front of the train and that's obvious. But no,
54:50
I liked that shot. But no, the rear projection did. It kills
54:53
me every single time I see it. I'm just like, there's so many
54:55
ways to hide it. There were so many different ways that they could have
55:00
just cut straight to it to where they fall down, which would have been
55:04
better. But yeah, I mean, like, you know, it is
55:06
what it is. You know, it's I'm not going to criticize the movie
55:08
too heavily, but yeah, it does take me out of it, but
55:12
it's it's not a deal breaker for me. So that detour handled. For
55:17
our wrap up moment here where we give our ratings, Darren, we know
55:22
that this was your first viewing, Tristan, we know that this is not
55:27
your favorite film of all time. So I'm very torn here as to who
55:31
gives their rating first. But Tristan, I am going to toss it to
55:36
you first. You've dropped many hints that this is not your favorite film.
55:40
Of all time. This is most likely not to get a five star.
55:45
I am dying to know. And remember two thousand and one there were hints
55:49
on a five star scale. Where do you drop Rob Reiner's nineteen eighty five
55:54
beloved Classt classic stand By Me? I actually, um, I'm gonna reveal
56:02
something to the audience that when we talked about doing Ryner of the Eighties,
56:07
I said, Okay, I'm bowing out of stand by Me. I'm not.
56:12
I'm not. I'm not talking about that film again. I don't want
56:14
to watch that film again. Like you guys can do it without me,
56:15
And you said, They're like, well, I just don't watch it again,
56:19
you know, like just don't watch again. You can still hang out
56:21
with us. And you guys, you know, guilted me into doing it.
56:24
Um, because we're pretty awesome. We're pretty great people, and we
56:28
uh, we know what we're doing. I know. I don't like this
56:31
movie at all. I have it's it's the only thing that I can think
56:36
of that people like about this movie is the nostalgia of it. I think
56:37
this is it's I think it's poorly written, I think it's paced horribly.
56:43
I think it's boring as hell. I think there's there's no point to it.
56:49
I think there's really great acting from some of these kids, but at
56:52
the same time, there's a lot of overacting, and I feel like there's
56:55
there's too many moments when I feel like rhiners just gonna like walk in front
57:00
of the camera, look at the audience and say, is in this dramatic
57:05
folks? And it just it takes me out of it. And I don't
57:09
like the kids. The the vomit scene is completely unnecessary, and there's just
57:16
so many scenes in this one. I'm just like, why are we here?
57:20
Why do I care what's going on? And but there there are certain
57:25
moments that I you can't argue our iconic you know, like you know,
57:30
like Will Wheaton jumping over the jumping over the fence, or you know,
57:35
like Corey Feldban's character breaking down after being confronted by the junk man guy and
57:42
where they find the body. Like everybody knows that like this. This has
57:45
influenced so many people, This has been parodied so many times. It's a
57:47
part of our pop culture. But to me, this is just a very
57:52
mediocre film. So it's I think it has some great moments but those great
57:57
moments are not not make the rest of it forgivable. So I'm giving it
58:01
a generous two and a half calling it mediocre. Oh wow, a generous
58:07
two and a half from the insane Robin Tristan Ridel, Darren. This is
58:14
your first viewing, so we're gonna save you for last. I'm gonna say
58:20
that I have never loved this movie in the same way that many people my
58:27
age have. I do not dislike it, but I do not love it.
58:35
It is a good movie with a weak script elevated by stellar performances from
58:45
a couple of key people. I think that Kiefer Sutherland, even though he's
58:52
getting jobs just because he's Donald Sutherland's kid, shows why he's a good actor
58:59
here today. Two years later, he's going to be in The Lost Boys,
59:02
which is one of my favorite nineteen eighties curios. I think Will Wheaton
59:10
is very good here. I think that River Phoenix is that's the kid where
59:15
if I were an adult film critic at the time, I would say,
59:21
you got to watch that guy. He's something special. River Phoenix is something
59:25
special here. But the movie's not really about anything, and it's it's just
59:32
a story to tell which is in a lot of ways what bothers me about
59:38
a lot of things I have read from Stephen King where it's a story to
59:44
tell, and it is an interesting story, but it is not a necessary
59:50
story. It's not something where I walk away and I'm like, I've learned
59:52
something important from this. It's just entertaining. But I will wind up falling
1:00:00
on three and a half stars. This would be a two and a half
1:00:07
or a three star without River Phoenix, but River Phoenix and Key for Sutherland
1:00:13
in particular give it a nudge, and so I wind up, maybe too
1:00:17
generously giving it a three and a half. And Darren, everybody in the
1:00:23
audience is on the edge of their seats to know what do you rate?
1:00:28
Stand by me after your very first viewing, Well, I enjoyed the film.
1:00:34
I it was you know, I didn't. I mean, I knew
1:00:37
the train scene. Everybody's seen that, you know, and I knew it
1:00:42
was about I didn't know it was about finding a body. I knew it
1:00:44
was like they're going somewhere to define, to do something. But so I
1:00:50
was totally surprised that it was like, here's a flashback of my youth and
1:00:53
it's narrated you know, on my way to Jaws. It's like, what
1:00:57
is going on? What's going on? But well after he does, But
1:01:01
now I felt I would definitely watch this movie again. You know, it's
1:01:07
coming of age stories are really tricky because it's like, I agree with you
1:01:14
guys, where if there's if there's more of a story to connect to,
1:01:19
it's easier to relate. But otherwise it's like if you didn't live in the
1:01:23
in Oregon in the fifties and smoked as a kid, Like, what is
1:01:28
there to connect to besides just maybe you know, I didn't. I didn't
1:01:32
look at any of these boys and see myself. But the performances were great.
1:01:37
I mean, the performances that came out of these four boys were amazing,
1:01:40
especially will Beaton. Gordy was I mean again, I'd heard that he
1:01:46
was in this but honestly, after watching I wish I'd watched it sooner,
1:01:50
which I had not waited this long to watch this movie because it was really
1:01:53
enjoyable. Gosh, just going between a couple of numbers. If only there
1:02:00
is a way to do half stars, but alas there's not no no such
1:02:05
thing. It's a it's a myth thing. It's a myth. Honestly,
1:02:09
I'm gonna give this four stars, one per boy. I really enjoyed this
1:02:15
movie. I feel I would like I said I'd watch it again. Our
1:02:20
critiques of it totally valid. Yes, but as much dramas in this it's
1:02:24
kind of just relaxing. It's just boys walking around. Fair enough, It
1:02:29
is just boys walking around, and your mileage may vary. Title then stand
1:02:35
by Me. I heard stand by Me was the one that they came up
1:02:37
with and couldn't think of anything better, the runaway hit of nineteen eighty five,
1:02:43
boys walking around there you heard it first. And so we wind up
1:02:50
with a film that is not universally beloved, but it is definitely more beloved
1:02:57
than The Sure Thing, And that takes us into next week as we plunge
1:03:05
into Dangerous Territory to review and rate Rob Reiner's nineteen eighty seven The Princess's Bride,
1:03:15
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