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Transcript

What You Don’t See Behind the Dove Awards · The Stephan Hogan Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Back in the late 1800s, the Fist Jubilee singers went to London and sang for the Queen.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, You must be from a musical city.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Hence, it's on the shoulders of gospel music that even our dear city has been named Music City.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: People identify with what they grew up with.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: And we've thought many times about that one, gospel.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it's centered, it's it's about the message.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the Bible talks about not to despise small beginnings and to trust.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: I had no choice but to trust God.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: And humbling myself before is really motivated by wanting to feel my children.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: So there you are, broken down, divorced, two kids.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: How do I feed these kids?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: All that.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: I can't imagine that that stress is a single mom.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: I know with Haley, we have a three and a half year old and he's wild.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: And just like me or her, like doing the parenting thing with one boy.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: What's this?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: Two boys.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing like two boys.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: I tell people they haven't truly parented unless they have multiple boys.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: I believe that.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't experience that to believe it.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but that was your break, that had to be the breakdown for you, right?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then you see this God starts to use you, VP A and R.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: What was the call at that period that you were hearing?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: Because you moved to Nashville, had the call to come, get into the music business.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so you're there now.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: And things are happening.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: Your career is progressing just to be able to go from the front desk to the VP at AR in a quite short period of time.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it took a few years.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: How many years is it?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: It took at least five.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: Five years?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: Five years.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if that's normal or not normal.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, I had to be an AR assistant and then an AR director.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, director.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: There's all the stuff.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I see the people at publishing companies, they're like, they do this job here, and then there's a director over here, and then they're the head over here.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's always these little shifts.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: But what did you feel like God's call was at that time?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: Was it like, hey, continue doing what you're doing, or was it more like walk by faith because I'm gonna use you, but just trust me.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: I got two answers.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: The call was to further the gospel through music and to uh facilitate his creative people to accomplish it.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: A facilitator.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 3:10
  unknown: Okay.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: Not my agenda, theirs.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like a a new artist.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: For me, it was like going before them and cutting down the weeds and helping them to find the path.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: And when I say helping them, that means um investing.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: That means providing um, whether it's a performance coach or a media coach or the right producer to sing their songs, create their songs.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things you said was self-doubt and how uh imitation leads to innovation.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because I was thinking about it.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, yeah, like I grew up playing guitar and you listen to all the greats, and then you eventually become this melting pot of everything that you learn from all these different people, and your own you're your own type of player or type of singer or writer or musician or whatever.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: And it goes the same in the career world.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought it was interesting that you said that you saw how the men did it, and being a woman of color and a female in the industry, I don't know what it was like at that time, but I mean in different conversations I've had with women in the industry, it it's kind of like it was a good old boys' club at the time, at least in the countryside.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I don't know what it was like on the Christian side, and that's you know, you're telling me today, but I know for like even what you said about men, like being loud or whatever, you know, like the some of the I guess masculine traits of alpha dudes, it's like and you're a woman, and you're also there's I'm not I'll I'm kind of curious not to be just ramble here.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: I kind of figure out my thoughts as I talk it out, but like what was it like for you?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: Because one of the things was it wasn't that you were just a female, but also a woman of color.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: How did that play out or how did that feel for you?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: My battle was more internal than external.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: I can remember literally in my journal writing down, Lord, these are all of the reasons why I shouldn't be here.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: I shouldn't be doing this.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a woman of color.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm five foot two.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: My hair's curling.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: My, you know, it was all of these external things that when actually I looked at it, I had to laugh.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: I can't spell.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I had to keep swallowing that self-doubt.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: I had to keep walking with confidence in the C-suite.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: I had to, and also I was very, very, very blessed and that the men that were around me believed in me.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: At times I didn't believe in myself.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: I said to Daryl Harris, he was sending me out on something.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Daryl was um, Daryl and Janet were the founders of Star Song.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: I said, What whatever the task was he was asking me to do, I said, What if I failed?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, I won't let you fail.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: And these men that I worked with, Daryl and Stan and Jeff, they were like mentors to me.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they would give me their signet ring and send me on my way and and give me guidance.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: Jackie, don't take cookies to the studio.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Don't take food.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: Meaning don't be girly.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, I didn't have an external appeal battle.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: I was privileged.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: I was welcomed in.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: I was trained.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I was sent out.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: And as that sending out went, I did gain confidence.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: And because I raised boys, or was raising boys, um, I wasn't afraid of guys.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, to this day, I mean I love Scott Brickle and sparring with him.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: I don't mind sparring.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: There are benefits, a lot of benefits to being a woman in this position.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: But being able to stand your ground when you need to, in a way that is not wanting to harm the other person, but sometimes it's a teachable moment.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: Do you find that because what you said something interesting there, that it that uh it's actually an asset being a female in your position.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: And as a male, sometimes a word from a female is my I can receive it like my therapist is a female.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: Because I don't feel threatened.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like do like maybe guys that like err on the alpha side or competitive or whatever they're wiring, maybe um, like would feel threatened with you, they would feel like I don't know, there's something nurturing.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's you know what I'm saying?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's why God chose a five foot two woman of color with curly hair.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: So those were actually your strengths, your biggest insecurities.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: Turned into yeah.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: It took me a long time to realize it because you know I look up at the world at five foot two.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the Lord was giving me this assignment to go to work at the Gospel Music Association.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: It made no sense to me.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: I knew nothing about heading up a nonprofit.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I argued with him.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: And again, that still small voice said, I'm not looking for an expert, I'm looking for a nurturer.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: I need your mother's heart.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that was my cornerstone.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: When you moved into that role, you got to restructure.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: What did that look like?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: And how did you kind of have a macro view over that?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: The GMA was in dire straits on life support.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't know how bad it was when I actually accepted the position.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: When you say uh life support, what what is what did that look like?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: That meant that oh, what did it look like?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like was it fiscally on life support?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it was fiscally on life support.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: Financially, it was in a horrible place.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: Soundroyalties helped artists, they help writers, they help producers, they help YouTubers and other people that earn royalties figure out how to access capital without having to sell their catalogs, give up ownership, or their copyrights.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: Their funding is completely based on your royalty income, not your credit score.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: There's no personal guarantees.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: Go to soundroyalties.com slash Stefan Hogan Podcast, S-T-E-P-H-A-N Hogan Podcast for a complimentary royalty analysis and free income forecasting.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: Fill out the form, and a royalty specialist is gonna hit you up within one business day.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Or you can also click the link in the description below.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: So first decide what the right move is for your career, then figure out how to fund it.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: And a few of them actually revoked their memberships.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: But you can't be a trade association without members.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: They had once been a staff of 17.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: When I came in, I made four.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: We were a staff of four.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Justin Thrat, who is our executive vice president of GMA, he'd been there for seven years.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was his first job out of college.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it was real obvious that we needed to make GMA needed to make some new friends.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so we uh ended up going on what we call, Justin and I call it the apology tour.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on doors.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: We would go to any and everybody that would talk to us and ask them about their GMA experience.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it was easy to apologize because we didn't do it.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I'm five foot two, you know.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: I just started.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: They screwed it up.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I'm so sorry what they did.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: And um again, what was interesting with me having no experience at a nonprofit of heading a nonprofit, it was my relationships that the Lord was using.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, I'd started uh at Star Song, went to Benson, which was in which was CCM companies.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then I went, I'd always wanted to be in gospel, and I went to integrity to be the general manager of their gospel division.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: I had a lot of relationships in the gospel world.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: I had relationships in the southern gospel world because Bill Gaither had been a part owner in Star Song, and I was at the very first homecoming.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: It was the fact that I knew a cross-culture of people that collided into helping to relay the foundation of the GMA.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because what we discovered was that the hurt that people were feeling was either because GMA uh was entitled.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: Whenever they got in trouble, they'd just expect the label or the industry to bail mount.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um they felt it was segregated and that other cultures were not accepted.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that I learned from Daryl Harris is service, servant leadership.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what we relaid the foundation of the Gospel Music Association to be a trade organization that is that serves.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: We are servant leaders.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: We have no self-agenda.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: We serve the people that oversee our industry.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: What year did you come on?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: 2011.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: And you've been there ever since?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's the longest I've ever had a job.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Justin's been there twenty-two years now.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and he's the executive VP.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: So you came in and there was four.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: How how many now?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that was the other thing.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: When, you know, we were going door to door.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: There was obviously uh an infrastructure need.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And Jessica said, what are we gonna do?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, you know, I think, and this is instinct, I'm making stuff up.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think we need to meet some uh stay-at-home moms who have had work experience.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so several of our people, especially the the early-ons, are single moms with work experience.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: Wendy, who heads up our membership and balloting, she had worked for the Chamber of Commerce in Nashville.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: And she wanted to work from home because they had adopted a little girl.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Nicole, she's our director of sponsorship and amazing.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: She can tell the story to anybody because of her background.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: She's got two kids that she still gets to drive to school and pick up.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, there's these wealth of women that um have come on board.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so now we've got um six full-time people, but probably ten part-time and or um contract labors.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then we beef it up during our event seasons.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: And something I'm curious about, because you're in the service of you know, the industry.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: Is I think if I'm putting saying it correct, kind of the way you said it was uh, you know, servant leadership, which I think is the only way to lead in my just personally, you have to be willing to do the the dirty work so people respect you.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: When it comes to organizations like this, like the Gospel Music Association, or I even think of the other ones in country, like the Country Music Association, there's these associations that or the Academy of Country, like whatever it is it's a non-profit.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: Can you help me understand like what the role it a nonprofit like the GMAs plays in the industry?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody saw the mornings you started before sunrise, the anxiety that kept you awake, the setbacks that made you wonder if it would ever work, but you kept building.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And when you finally stopped to appreciate how far you'd come, you wanted something to remember that season of your life.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Your host, Mr.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Hogan, found his at East Coast Time Pieces in Nashville, a Grand Seiko Yukamamiji GMP.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's deep red dial, inspired by autumn leaves reflected in Japanese wooden floors.
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  SPEAKER_00: A watch that captures a season, a reminder of your own.
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  SPEAKER_00: Veteran owned and trusted by some of the biggest names in music and entertainment.
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• 20:16
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• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Also in the description.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because I don't really understand it, if that makes any sense.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like I don't like I understand labels and like publishing and all that side.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_03: But like even you said you came into a nonprofit, you're like, I ain't never done this before.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: I've never worked for a board.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: A board.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there you go.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like you all have a board.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't why would you need a board?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know any of these things.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: But like, can you give shine a little light on the association part just as a whole?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why they exist?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: And after I do, I hope you'll become a member.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: And everybody listening.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: Let's become members.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, a trade organization is the hub in the middle of the wheel of any trade.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Whether I met with the executive director of the Pipe Fitters Association.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we're at the center of the wheel.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: We represent all of Christian and gospel music, artists, songwriters, industry leaders, uh, whoever is making a path of spreading the gospel through music.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: We represent on Capitol Hill through advocacy.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: We are the voice of Christian and gospel music signing on to bills that are appropriate.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: For us to be a part of.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: And to support the music, I'd imagine.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: And to support the music.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's very we're living in a time where protecting our music is important to every genre.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: We also provide programming, educational programming for our leaders.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: We have a young professional group that meets, they call, I think they meet monthly and they call it Donuts and Devos.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: We nurture songwriters, up-and-coming songwriters.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, artist development has changed quite a bit in the landscape of our industry.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so we've teamed up with a small group, uh, the Wheelands, and we do what we call writes and bites, gathering these songwriters who um want to hone their craft, and we invite an AR person or an artist to come and share with this group what kind of songs they're looking for, and then they go and they write together.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so they learn co-writing, they learn how to write based on a goal, and we've gotten some cuts.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Come on.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, the Dove Awards celebration uh is Yeah, how did you get like in your involvement?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: And that's huge.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, like I said, we're at year 57, so taking the job just automatically put me in the way of the Dove Awards.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: And um I had done live recordings before, obviously serving uh the artist that that I worked with, but I never done an award show.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: And again, starting from the ground up, I knew that we had to make it a benefit to our industry.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: I needed to regain the trust of our leaders, and that meant building a team that was willing to make the sacrifices that had to be made to fan the sparks of the flame that were trying to go out, and um met Curtis Stoneburger, who was working at a label at the time.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: We were talking about something, and I knew I needed a producer for the Devil Awards.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm an AR person, so I come at everything with these are the needs that we have.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: And as I was talking to Curtis 13, 14 years ago, I was telling him that we needed a producer, and he said he would help us find one.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: I said, you know, I think you're the guy.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think you're it.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I started crying.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: And Curtis has been with us ever since.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Helping us put together the Devil Wars as a producer.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Paul Wright, I'd followed in his footsteps.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: He had worked at Verity Records, uh, Sony, um, the gospel division of Sony, as well as Benson, and I'd worked.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Paul was a producer and um very, very talented guy.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: And we had a pre-tell.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Paul, can you come help us with the pre-tell?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: He's been with us ever since.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um what year was that when you got involved with the Dove Awards?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say I took the job in 2011.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: 2012, it was in Atlanta, and that was the big downfall.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's when I got involved.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: And then what was your title when you started with the Dove Awards?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Executive Director.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: Or the title for the Dev Awards was producer.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Producer.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then it moved to executive producer as I built a team.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: But we built this amazing team.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: That all but one couple is still apart.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's epic.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's family.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's awesome.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's a lot of.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm not gonna I've sucked at math all day today in our conversation, so I'm not gonna try to do it 2011 to now.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: But that's a good amount of years, or 12.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: What years you say?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and we've taken it from we again, we knew we needed to meet new friends.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because the big deal now, the Dove Awards, growing up, I think that maybe I witnessed this.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I was like, yeah, the Dove Awards, they're a thing, or whatever.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like throughout the years, it seems like the Dove Awards have gotten more legit, like bigger, more impactful, important.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: They're back at Bridgestone now.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you noticed.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's and that's all God, the grace of God and a lot of hard work.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: God, hard work, great team.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing team.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: Vision, vision, servant leadership.
• 27:59
  unknown: Yeah.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: What's been the biggest learning lesson of for you and in doing the Dove Awards?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: Or you can give me a few.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: I just love the little.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, knowing the elements that we needed, knowing the what gifts we needed to bring to the table to make it happen.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: Also amend uh making amends or regaining the trust of our industry leaders, because there was no reason to do a show if our industry leaders were not in full support.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh Jess and I we came up with this plan.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: The devs had always been in April.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: We'd met Randy Lowry, who was president of Lipscomb University, uh, took us under his wing and uh allowed us to use the Allen Arena.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we took that plan.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: And we said we'll have to move it to October because time was going.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: And we won't go forward without your buy-in.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: And this is what we have.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: We've got the Allen Arena.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: This is the team of we've built.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: This is how we're going to fund it.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, this is who will televise.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Will you walk with us?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: And they said yes.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: They said, are you sure we're not gonna have to pay to get you'll have to only pay for whatever your artist requires on the stage.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, no, you won't have to pay.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so they were shocked when they walked into the arena and they actually saw the stage of an award show, and we were a motley crew, but we made bricks out of hay.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: If you're around Music Row, you've probably heard of Studio Bank or know someone that bangs with them, and there's a reason for that.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: They set out to rethink the typical experience, put people at the center of it, infuse innovative technology with genuine hospitality.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: Their whole idea is to be uncommonly modern and surprisingly human.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: That's a big part of why I'm proud to partner with them.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: They do not make you feel like a number.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: You get real people, real support, and a team that actually cares about what you're building, whether that's your business, your family, or your future.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: They also offer immediate ATM fee reversal at any ATM machine in the entire world.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's why a lot of my friends that are on the road bank with them.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: Visit studio bank.com or call 615-338-9998.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: Let them know Stefan Hogan sent you and see how Studio Bank can serve you today.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: Studio Bank member FDIC Equal Housing Lender.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then that made provided legitimacy.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: And then from there, the trust was gained within the industry.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: And then now the industry is just bullying support, yeah.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: One of my um industry leaders, you know, because like I said, we had three that were, they had their machine guns out, they they were real ready to be rid of the GMA.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: And they thought I would stop calling.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: But every time I called, because of our long-term relationships, they answered my call.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: One of them I told, you know what, you keep answering my call because I knew you on your first wife, California.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, relationships are um definitely very pivotal to the growth of the GMA.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: And pulling people together, uniting cultures is not an easy thing.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Jesus' last words was Father, that they would be one like you and I are one.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: He's still working at that.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:19
  unknown: That's tough.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: Where do you see that?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: The uniting cultures part, like on your end.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: Unity.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: Unity doesn't mean everyone has to be the same.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: But unity means accepting all of our differences and agreeing on our mission and our goal.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that has been a very intentional part of our work.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: With the GMAs.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, being absolutely.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: And now we have more sub subcultures than ever before.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: And we intentionally represent each one.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: We got you remember there was a time when Christian radio didn't play worship music.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember that?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they just played like pop, like Christian pop, right?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: God forced their hand.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: And now worship, look.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's like one of the largest sections of sectors of our industry.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of the songs done in churches are what's on the radio.
• 33:52
  unknown: Yeah.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: Worship music.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I said.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's God made a way.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so because we follow his lead, we make a way.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: And we make sure everyone feels significant.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: So this year's Dove Award 57th.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: What's a little of the behind the curtain, and how far in advance do you have to start preparing when you guys are doing an award show like this?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: We have it happens every 12 months.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: So we have to start preparing way ahead of time because there the balloting process is the first step.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so that means music has to be submitted in each of the categories.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then we have screening committees to make sure that uh a song or a record is in the correct category.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a little bit of fighting that out.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um and all that has to happen before we can design the ballot and send it out.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: And um And those are all the that all these award shows are always the songs from the prior year that are being voted on.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like compiling those, narrowing them down, having the members vote, all of that.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: All of that.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: And then the shows being designed around what the ballots do.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: The nominees, yes.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: The nominees, yes.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then ultimately is the um is it night of when the artist finds out?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, cool.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we can't really start the programming until after the final nominees are named.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that's like August.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh dang.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: So last month.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: We have a bit of a hint prior and we um dabble, but the formation doesn't really entirely take place until after the nominees are revealed.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it's October 7th?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: Sixth.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: Sixth.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: Don't come on the seventh now, come on the sixth.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: On the sixth.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, on the sixth.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_03: And it's um you have a therapist.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: I have something on the seventh.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's why my brain keeps.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, go to that.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'll I'll go to that, but I won't be at Bridgestone.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um televised.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: At Bridge Bridgetone this year.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think bigger artists than ever.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: God's really the executive producer.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a beautiful thing how like even um because is Brandon Lake gonna be there?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: Cause like he did the thing at the CMA award or CMA Fest where they did church.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like he's had a huge just like some of his collabs.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think Jelly Roll did something with yes.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: And see, that's the um part of the secret sauce, should I say?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's our artists who bring others to the table.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: Brandon Lake did this song with Jelly Roll, Heartfelt Hallelujah, that took the nation by storm.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: They did that at the um, was it the ACMs or something?
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't pay attention to those shows.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: It was some show.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: And all I know the devil.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: It was uh it was raining on them.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: But they didn't.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: That was the Devil Wards.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: That was the Devil Wards?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well you good job, Jackie.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so Jelly Roll days before, I want to say it's the week before the Doves.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: Jelly Roll says, I want to invite John Batiste to do it with us.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: So we had Jelly Roll, John Batiste, and Brandon Lake getting rained on.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: We started the show last year, forking and country, having fire, and we ended with rain.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: And symbolism.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: We got to tell the story of Opry 100, uh, Stephen Curtis Chapman, and several um country artists um sang some very memorable songs.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we had a lot of great great moments last year, and so that's the goal every year.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: So today counting the days.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: Counting the days.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: Counting the days.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_03: There's only as of today, seven more days when as this is airing.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: And today's my birthday, as this is airing.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Happy birthday.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: So where are we gonna tune in?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: TBN.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: TBN for the broadcasting network.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, the pre-tail will be streamed on the GMA YouTube platform, and um you can find it on YouTube on the main show on YouTube as well.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: Will that be live?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: But the live is on TBN.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: The live is what we call embargoed.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: It comes out on the Friday after.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: We go straight to editing, and then it is aired on Friday.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: So for the audience that can't attend, so it'll be Friday the 9th on TBN.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: How many people do we have this year?
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_03: How many people bought tickets or are gonna be there?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like how big is it?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh last year was our first year at Bridgestone, and we went from 3,000 at the Allen Arena to 10,000 last year.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so that being our bar, you know, we're hoping to to reach that.
• 40:35
  unknown: Okay.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: 10K?
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: And is it mainly ticketed?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, a large bulk of the floor seats go to our nominees and performers.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, or industry folks and stuff like that.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, because that's a big thing.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that draws a lot of audiences.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like a lot of the country audience too, and just thinking Music City, as we go back to the original part of our conversation, uh, the countryside audience is very much, there's a lot of those values and Christian values in country music as well.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: Russia Gaston said, I think he said, uh, if it's about faith, family, or like freedom or something like that, like that's country music kind of wrapped up into a thing.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I think that you know, like those principles kind of obviously are applied in in the Bible and in and gospel, and that's another Dove Awards.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's another great story we get to tell at the Museum of Christian and Gospel Music.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: Which you need to tell me about because you raised 15 million bucks to be able to do that.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, but let me tell this story first.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: One of the great stories we get to tell is that there are three artists that are in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the Country Music Hall of Fame, and the GMA Hall of Fame.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that's Elvis Presley, Dolly Parton, and Johnny Cash.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: And um there's no doubt that gospel, southern gospel, country, um, even CCM, a lot of artists, whether they were whether they started standing up on a box singing with the choir at church, um, many have the church roots in them.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so it's a beautiful thing to see.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: So you guys have a GMA Hall of Fame?
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we do.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: And we have uh over 90 Hall of Famers, and prior to the opening of the museum, it had only been virtual.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: We'd had ceremonies over the years that COVID derailed us with our Hall of Fame uh celebration, but um we've got these great uh life size screens that um you can punch the tab of your favorite Hall of Famer and uh see and read their history.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: Where's the museum?
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: The museum is on fourth and commerce, so we're right behind the rhyme.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: We are in the heart of Music City.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: So you're behind the Ryman?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: Just a Okay.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm trying to think.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: Does it would it will it say uh the museum title on it?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, howdy it's very, very largely.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: Cause m heyley, when we were having coffee that morning and we were sitting behind the rhymen.
• 44:17
  unknown: Mm-hmm.
• 44:17
  unknown: That big building.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_03: There's a building there.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: And you didn't see at the sun.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we were sitting.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: There's this building, it's very well landscaped.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's adjacent to the rhyme behind it.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's not directly behind it.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: So you're saying benches and green grass.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, no, no.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_03: So so that would be up the street a little bit, but like directly behind the rhyme is where you're at.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know where Dolly Parton's new hotel is?
• 44:45
  unknown: Yes.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: Haley does.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we're a block down.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: So you're down.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're on the same street.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: You're downtown, downtown, like music rubber.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_03: Or I mean Broadway.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's the miracle.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_03: The word country politan comes from a real era in country music.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: When Nashville took country music and made it elegant.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: Strings, background vocals, orchestra.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: It was country music with polish.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think Patsy Klein, Glenn Campbell, Tammy Wynette, George Jones, Charlie Pride, songs that still had the ache and honesty of country, but dressed up with style.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: And that is exactly what this hotel feels like.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: The kind of place where every detail's been thought through.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: The scent when you walk in, the music, the clothes they carry, the textures, the rooms, the coffee cups, the way everything feels curated without feeling fake.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_03: So you feel the history immediately, but unlike staying right in the middle of Broadway, it feels tucked away, it feels calm, it feels like you found something.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: And that's honestly why I love it.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: Things slow down.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_03: Have a restful time without technology.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: And when you're ready, the rhyming in Broadway for about a four-minute walk.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_03: The Contrapolitan Hotel.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: Stay in the story.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: Can I tell you a story about it?
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I I need to we need to go to the museum.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_03: We need like B-roll from the museum or something for this podcast.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, plenty.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: Send me, send us some.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it was shortly after I um took the job that I felt very impressed to what I was writing the vision, was called the Dev Center.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: But we were in no way, shape, or form ready for me to introduce this idea.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so it wasn't till um, I want to say over four years ago that I felt like God was saying it's time.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so we got the approval of our board, Zach Wamp, who's chairman of the GMA Foundation board.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: He had been a congressman here in Tennessee.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: He took it under his wing.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: And before I knew it, we were searching for a location.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: When I say that, I mean it was just a short conversation on the stage of the Devil Ward prior to it starting that this came about.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so we went and looked at that spot.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was 11,000 square feet, totally empty, not in use at all.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: And the location was perfect.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: But before I signed the lease, I was walking into church and I said, Lord, I need a sign.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because I thought we would do so much bigger for you.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: I envisioned more.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I need you to give me a word to go forth.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I went in church, and I don't know what my pastor Dustin Smith was saying before or after.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: But he brought up a scripture from Ecclesiastes that said, if the farmer waits for perfect weather, he will never plant.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that was my word.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: That was the Rhema word I needed.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: To go ahead and lead the army.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, now onward Christian soldiers.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna sign this lease and we're gonna make this happen in Jesus' name.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because he said so.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_03: You've mentioned hearing from God a lot in like specific pivotal, seminal moments of your life and career where you're unsure.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we can all relate to that feeling of just not knowing what the answer is.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I've experienced that a lot in my life.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm curious how you handle that when you're like, hey God, I need you to talk to me.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_03: I need a word.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm scared to like do that because I feel like if I do that, I might hear nothing.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_03: And also, it confuses me because I'm like, is this me or is this God?
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like deciphering?
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_03: Is this the Holy Spirit talking to me?
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like the scripture, like that's the living word of God that talked to you.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_03: So just like personally, like, like there's some things that me and Haley are trying to figure out, and I don't know what the answers are, but I also haven't been like, God, I need a sign or something like that.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but even with that, like that was a big decision, you're like, God, I need something.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_03: Do you feel that it like confident in going to God and asking for like affirmation or a sign?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_03: And do you feel like when you've done that you've gotten an answer every time?
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_03: Or do you feel like there's been times where you haven't gotten an answer?
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_03: Or do you feel like God's always pulled through?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because that all confuses me.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_03: Because I wanted to be able to do it.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, desperate times call for desperate measures.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it's unfortunate that some of us wait until we're desperate in order to ask for the sign.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: And up until a couple years ago, I'd always felt the Holy Spirit speaking of my spirit.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: But in April of twenty four, my son Gabriel died of cancer.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: And there had been a whole tribe of us seeking God for healing.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't think I was an aim and claimant person, but my son is suffering and I'm praying in the perfect will of God.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I am a woman of faith.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: And when Dave Gabriel died, the wife and three kids left behind, and a mother and brother.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: It shook my foundation.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: Here I'd had all these stories.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: I could tell you story after story.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: I have even um a jar in my kitchen that says blessings, where I write them down and put it in my jar just so I won't forget.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: My son died.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: Divorce was horrible.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: Painful.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: Full of betrayal and having to put my life back together again.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_02: The death of my son who is a man of God to serve God with his life.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: It was crushing.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: It was confusing.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: And grief is a horrible bedfellow.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_02: And all the Pat answers, oh, he's in a better place.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh God works all things together for good.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_02: All those Pat answers Do not bind up a broken heart.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so here I am.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: A mature believer.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_02: Faced with the most difficult disappointment that only God could have fixed.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've been forced in my anger, my disappointment, and my heartache, my own loneliness, and looking at my grandkids.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: To continue to believe in the sovereignty of God.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: And the Bible says all you have to have is a mustard seed of faith.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like I traded in my rocks of faith and was downgraded to a mustard seed.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: I lived on the prayers of others for quite some time.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: But who else has the words of life?
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: Who else has guided my life, sustained me, and provided for me and my children?
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_02: I have to believe.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: Even when I'm even when I'm mad.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_03: Clean X babe.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Gabriel was suffering and died.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_02: And at the same time, I was building a museum, the very first in our nation, to celebrate Christian gospel music.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_02: We were moving the Devil Wards into Bridgestone Arena, where we're doing all that planning.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_02: So professionally, unbelievable great things were happening.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: And personally, I couldn't fall apart.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: After his service, the day after we had a board meeting, of course I went to the board meeting.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: They were like, couldn't believe I'd come.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, where else would I go?
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_03: You're almost numb.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: I needed the distraction.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: And these this group of people, these are my people.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: Many of them were at the service, too.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: I do live in community and work in community.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_03: So you feel like that those that those pillars of faith or rocks were downgraded to the mustard seed because you were like having faith for healing and the God who heals.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: And you read about Jesus healing after healing after healing.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I know you can do this, God.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_03: I remember that with my mom, these prayer warrior women coming, flying out here from California, praying for her and all that, both with cancer, and like then it's almost like it's very it's frustrating to say the least.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I get that and maybe that's part of my struggle too.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_02: Having to be rebuilt.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_02: Having to accept his sovereignty.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: Knowing that I'm left behind, but still have work to do.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna turn it back now.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-mm.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_03: Gary would want mom to keep pushing.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he would.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder sometimes if our family members in heaven, like I'm sometimes I'm like, God, tell my mom and dad I say what's up.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like I don't know if they can see down into earth or what's going on.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_03: You ever think about that?
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_02: 100% when I'm picking my nose is like escape watching right now.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's funny.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um because there's that connection.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_03: You're there he's yeah, he's a part of you.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like a part of you dies.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_02: Literally.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I say good morning to him.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: This picture comes up on my echo in the kitchen.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Gabe.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're all different sorts of beliefs regarding um I pre I prefer to believe that he's up there dancing.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: He's bringing a lot of joy.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_02: He's enjoying his grandparents and his friends that have gone before him.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think that Mandisa said, Hey gay, what's up?
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_02: And they just started dancing together.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I get those visuals too.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_03: And in the proud moments too, where you know they'd be proud of you, like being like, ah, they'd be proud of me right now, or they're hopefully in heaven seeing this, or whatever.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_03: Or when my mom passed and our son was born, it almost felt like she was there in the room in some weird kind of way where like God gave her the privilege of being able to because she never became a grandma, but she knew we were pregnant or Haley was pregnant.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we always confuses me.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_03: We weren't pregnant, but you know what I'm saying?
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's so weird.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_03: She did the hard work, but I felt like my mom was there in that room that day.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_03: There was something holy and sacred feeling about it.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_03: Not to like bring in my own personal because I I hated it when people were like, Yeah, I'm I lost my family member too.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, actually, can you just shut up and let me grieve right now?
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like I don't need to hear your sob story too.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's how I felt when when my parents passed.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's what I said to you earlier.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, my dad.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no, I'm past that point.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's when it's fresh, when it's fresh.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the week of or the month of, and it's like everyone wants to tell you their story because there's like something where we connect about it, because it's like I understand, get like I get it.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you just get it, but you don't get it until you go through it, you know.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_03: So God's doing a new work in you, I guess.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then back to like those whatever God has next for you.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's like David or you know, David in the wilderness before he became king.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_03: Whatever those wilderness situations are, the Israelites before the promised land.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like God, I guess in your life, I don't know, it's just how I feel right now.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll just say it.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_03: When you were young, it happened, and then like you talked about seasons, and then you had different seasons, and then you went into a winter with your son.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_03: But also the harvest, the spring, the summer will come too.
• 1:02:39
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_03: And we don't know when.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: Sun keeps rising.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: Keeps rising.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_03: The thing that carries me is that don't worry about tomorrow because it has enough worries of its own.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's good, yeah.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_03: That I try to hold on to.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um Do you want to read what you have that you were gonna read?
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_03: And we can end it that way.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because that might be awesome.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_03: And by the way, thank you so much for driving half of Tennessee to get here.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_03: Half the way to Kentucky, almost to Kentucky.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's a privilege.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: This is another one of my cornerstones.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: We got to see all sides of him.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is a psalm that he wrote, 32, 8, and 9.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm reading the Passion version.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_02: I hear the Lord saying, I will stay close to you, instructing you, and guiding you along the pathway for your life.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'll advise you along the way and lead you forth with my eyes as your guide.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_02: So don't make it difficult.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_02: Don't be stubborn when I take you where you've not been before.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_02: Don't make me tug you and pull you along.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_02: Just come with me.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_02: I have it on my mirror in the bathroom.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_02: That word has definitely been carrying me.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_02: Every time I tell the Lord, I don't know anything about building a museum.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, come on.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_02: Why would I do this?
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_02: Don't make it difficult.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_02: Just follow me.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_03: Psalm 32, 8 and 9.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:05:18
  unknown: Okay.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great version, too.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_02: Passion.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we need to do this.
• 1:05:29
  unknown: Yes.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_02: Have our hands wide open.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_02: And often we're afraid of ourselves.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're afraid we're we don't have the chops, we're not capable, we didn't go to college, we didn't, you know, blah blah blah.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_02: Where the Bible says trust in God and do good.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm trying.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: To not have to be tugged.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_02: But I've been tugged many times.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_02: He has proven his word to be true.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's the biggest encouragement.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_03: And uh it's interesting, the the last podcast I did it turned into us talking about Jesus.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like today has been a mirror of that.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_03: And uh me and Ethan were talking a little while ago.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I don't know how God wants to use his podcast or you know, whatever.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_03: But to be able to share Jesus today and what he's done in your life, and how you followed and trusted in the spots where God's eyes are in front of you, and it's like I heard this quote you could drive across the United States at nighttime, as long as you had headlights.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to see super far ahead, and we aren't gonna know what's around the corner.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's good.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_03: But you got the headlights, and so that kind of reminds me of that a little bit where it's like, God's the headlights.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, That's right, just follow me, trust, which is so counterintuitive.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's what a true soldier does obeys commandments.