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Lets talk about life with a disability · Inspiring Stories

0:04
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the picture of a radiant.
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Speaker 2: Rat.
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Speaker 3: You readything to me? Oh well, well.
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Speaker 2: Say, oh well.
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Speaker 3: Not a bad sup I just see. So call lash
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day this event.
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Speaker 1: Welcome everybody to today's event. We're talking about life with
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disabilities and our two guests of honor are Emily Ava
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Gillespie and girlfriend Girl fram Alias between the between golfram
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and and Emily. They both have fifteen years more than
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fifteen years experience in working with people with disabilities in
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the community. They have both studied disabilities and helping people
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who have a disability to learn. They both have events
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degrees in such areas. They have both have done intense
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research and have experience in peer support with mental health
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for people with disabilities as well as they in each
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of their communities and across Canada. They are both activists
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and known activists for people with disabilities and trying to
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get our society to understand that there is an importance
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for equality as well as equity for people with disabilities,
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which that means that the equality means everybody has the
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same rights, and the equity part focuses on the idea
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that Okay, I'm giving you the right, but you don't have,
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you don't have any way of using that right. Equity
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means that now I'm going to adjust how our society
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works so that you can use all of your rights,
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so that we can see everyone equally. So go fram herself.
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She is the founder of Beyond the Abilities International, which
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is a international charity, and she is also well, as
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I said, both Emily and Gofram teach at the university
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level for people learning how to help people with disabilities
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as well as there at advocating for people. So Gophram
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is a disabled woman with spina biff spina biffida and hydroicephalis,
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and she is the founder of Beyond Abilities International. She
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is also a part time professor at George Brown College,
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teaching in the Community Worker Program. She holds a master's
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degree of Education in Social Justice Education, specializing in disability
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education policy from o I s A, University of Toronto.
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She holds an Honors Bachelor of Arts and Disability Studies
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from the Toronto Metropolitan University, a college Certificate in Preparatory
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in Liberal Arts, and a College Deployment in Community Services
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from George Brown College. She is a Disability Advocate, program facilitator, author,
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committed to advocating for a quality, equity and inclusion for
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people with disabilities. Emily Ava Gillespie is an author and
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disability activists, professor, and professional daydreamer. I kind of like
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that out of Emily. They have won a two thousand
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and twenty one Doctor James Jameson Influential Alumni Award from
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Napisking University. Gillespie has a Bachelor of Arts in Gender
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Equality and Social Justice and a master's in Critical Disability Studies.
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They have earned Certificate in Creative Writing from Concordia University.
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They have volunteered and worked in disability community as an activist, researcher,
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peer support facilitators for more than fifteen years. Gillespie is
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also an author and performance artist. Her work explores the
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themes of memory, identity, and mental health journeys. They enjoy
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working in the community spaces and examining individual and collective
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experiences dances. Dancing with Ghosts is her first novel. She
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has a collection of short stories and poetry which can
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be found in journals and other anthologies, and she has
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co edited A Mighty, an Anthology of Disabled Superheroes by
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Renaissance Press in twenty twenty three, and her most recent
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novel is titled Weight with Me, was released in twenty
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twenty five. Okay, so at this time I'm going to
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ask Golfram if she could read a little bit of
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her book so you understand how her book moves along
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and the material that she's actually talking about. Go ahead,
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go fram Thank.
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Speaker 2: You, Michael. Okay, So I will be reading on chapter
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one of my memoir entitled You Have twenty four Hours
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to it. Imagine being born and your parents being told
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to die in twenty four hours or maybe even less,
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and why because you have an opening on your back
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with half of your spine visible, and the doctors where
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you were born had no solution for you. They called
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it spineambifida. So the easiest answer was you're going to die,
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even though I was born in one of the richest
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countries in the world with highly educated doctors. However, due
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to the ongoing war in Iraq, all those doctors had
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fled to safer locations, leaving me with this grim answer
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that at times left me hopeless. My parents tried everything
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they could to help me stay alive and give me
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what I needed. That what I needed was an operation
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that was going to close the wound on my back.
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They took me to the best doctors in the country,
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the ones that were still there, that is, But no
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one gave us the answer we needed. Those who said
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there would be a possibility that I would that would
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that I would live, said that I would be blind death,
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with facial deformities, I wouldn't be able to move my hand,
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and worse, I could have a mental disability. As I
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grew older, I remember how hard it was to act
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as medical supplies like gauds to keep the blood, the
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blood that was coming out of my wound, of my
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open hollow wound, from overflowing. I remember living in a
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bustling household filled with filled with siblings and my cousins
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who would accidentally kick me in the back while while
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they were running around. I remember how painful that was
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and how many times I felt like crying. I'll be honest,
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there were times that I did, and others that I
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held it in. I remember my mom trying to be
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creative and using the roles of gouze that my dad
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occasionally had access to do itself, pick pieces so if
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she could wrap around my spine to provide me the
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cushion of protection and absorb the blood that came out.
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She figured out a way to deal with the issue
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we had with limited supplies by washing the ones that
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got stained and sterilizing them for reuse. I remember not
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being able to sit without a pillow for me to
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lean on because the floor wouldn't be safe. I remember
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that what hurt the most was watching my siblings return
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from school, which made me jealous because they well, while
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they got to attend, I couldn't. As a child, I
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had many wishes, long for independence, in yearning to be
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like normal human beings. At that young age, I wasn't
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entirely sure what normal meant, except except that it involved
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doing things others around me could do. One of the
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persistent dreams. One of my persistent dreams was going to
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school just like everyone my age, including my sister who
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is only two years older than I was. Or I am.
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I asked the question why was she able to go
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to school and had the opportunity, but I did not,
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since since we were so close in age. This was
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hard for me to accept and I could not see
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the reason behind it, and it felt it and I
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felt left out. Everyone including my parents, said that I
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that I was a good child. I didn't complain about anything.
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I remember my mom homeschool in me to keep me,
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to keep me from feeling sad about missing school like
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my siblings. I'll never I'll never forget the day my mom.
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My mom told me the story of trying to get
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me to practice my writing. He said not even not
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even ten minutes had passed before I started crying, telling
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her I was tired and needed a break. However, this
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didn't diminish my strong desire to get better and go
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to school like all other kids. It took many years
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of being let down and told the same pet sentence again,
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you have, You're going to die. But I was fortunate
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I not to have, not to have sorry, to have
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not one thing, but two things that kept me going.
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Hope and my parents my heroes throughout my life, the
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two important pillars, hope and my parents, which were what
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turned my life into a miracle. I managed to live
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for ten years before I found the answer to my question,
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where can I get the help I need to help
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me live a better life. My parents never gave up
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on me and kept trying. They went to see They
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went to see doctor Whoy and you had a good
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reputation in the country. The first attempt in the search
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for hope started when an agency called Care opened it
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up and a group of doctors said they were willing
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to contact doctors they worked with in Germany to see
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if to see if they could be willing to help me.
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And that was an excerpt of chapter one. That wasn't
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the entirety of chapter one because I do I'm cognizant
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TIK time and do you want to leave time for Emily?
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And also questions that will come forward from the audience.
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Speaker 4: Thank you? Okay. So I'm reading from my new novel
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that came out in November, Wait with Me by Emily
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Ava Gillespie a postal link after, but it's available in
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Amazon and also at glad Day Books and Another story
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Books in Ronsey. So I'm going to be reading the prologue.
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Ain't she something to look at? That parks the car
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on the road outside the crumbling hospital that overlooks the canal.
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I shudder, trying not to think about that building. He
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has a peaceful look on his face, like he's gazing
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at a lake, not at a crap at hospital. Maybe
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he needs a holiday because the receding hairline. His streak
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was gray, though he's still handsome for his age. As
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the saying goes, but hey, what can you really tell
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from the outside. I can't at least three broken windows,
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and the grass hasn't been cut this season. I'm eager
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to get back to the house, but I don't visit enough.
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Maybe he's lonely, and besides, I'd might rather to sit
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here with that than be at home listening to mom's
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gossip about the spa where she works the front desk.
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Can't believe this whole place is coming down, though I
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suppose with all the upkeep, that window over there is
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the maternity wind where you're born. He gives me a
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half smile. Our reflected my place. My story started. Okay,
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Dad with it, I muse, But I feel something else too,
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maybe guilt. I hope this doesn't turn into another speech
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about how proud he is I finished school. I don't
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know if I should pat him on the shoulder or what.
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I feel bad for wanting to get away from this
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poor city, from this life he's made. Yet I remind
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myself that he wanted more for me. He takes a small,
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slow sip of coffee, I do the same, though it's cold.
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He really address his glasses with his large, delicate fingers,
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hardened by years of physical labor and yellowed from cigarettes.
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He pretends not to smoke. I too, push my glasses
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up my spotty face. It's hard to breathe in the
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humid air. It's what droplets par on my forehead, in
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the back of my neck. I crank the window, though
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it's plonpless with the still air. At least my head
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feels light since val I mean V as a friend's
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caller chopped it off a few weeks back. Snips snip
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right to my chin. I feel like older, she'd commented
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when she had finished. Funny Dad said the same thing.
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When I got off the bus yesterday. I hear sniffle.
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I don't know where to look, but it feels wrong
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to face him. I'm not good with this kind of stuff.
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Ahead is the empty road, badly in need of her paving.
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So I turned back to the building. I could never
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work at a hospital, the staff and their neat scrubs,
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ambulances and patients, the urgency crisis and sorrow that filled
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the place gone empty. I wonder how long it's been
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sitting I don't know why Dad thought this would be fun,
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just another reminder of why I need to get away
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from here. Dad, What are we really doing? Why don't
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we just go for breakfast or something. My tongue moves
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to shape the letter D, but the old family tradition
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of not asking questions makes me freeze. I made several
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trips to the hour over the years, one thing after another.
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My first panic attack was in grade ten. Dad had
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been at work and Mom thought my PANICX. First, my
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body was invaded by a steering pain, and I shut
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my eyes so hard I could see stars as I
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hunched forward, hands curdling my stomach. I'd been vaguely aware
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of the paramedics examining me in the back of the ambulance.
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The ear doctor checked me out, told me I was fine,
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it was just a panic attack and to take it easy.
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Mom was so embarrassed after that she didn't talk to
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me for a good week or two. Then there was
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my leg not exactly Mom's fault, but still still I
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was just a kid. I can't remember what I'd said,
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but it must have been something to set her off,
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like an angry kettle boiling over jade, You little brad,
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get over here. This instant, you know you're going to hell, right.
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I don't know how many times she told me I'm
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going to hell. Her face was red and she reeked
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like whiskey, arms spilling, and I'd just been out of
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her reach. She chased me through the house that had
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been overflowing with books and knickknacks. I ran into a
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pile of boxes and tumbled down the stairs, landing with
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my right leg twisted under me, strewn with the contents
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of the boxes. The limp body at the bottom of
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the steps must have sobered her. At the hospital when
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they asked how I fell, Mom just laughed about me
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being such a klutz and shrugged off the mention of
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physical therapy, saying she felt sure I'd be fine what
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the cast was off, But like other scars from childhood,
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I leg didn't heal properly. It swells and twists under
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my weight, throwing my balance off when I walk. Mom
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still won't admit what happened either of those days, and
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I'm not sure Dad ever knew. Naive Dad or willfully ignorant.
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His life depends on picking and choosing which pieces of
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reality to acknowledge, which long ago. I tried to accept,
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which means I can't talk to him now.
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Speaker 3: Not really.
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Speaker 4: I can't dwell my childhood. No, not now. I know
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he wants me to say something about buildings and spaces
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and memories. My elementary school was torn down a few
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years ago, couldn't afford the upkeep with the lower registration numbers.
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The high school will be next. The demo crew left
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the swings with the carved initials in the overgrown field,
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a sad momentum to the generations who aged and flood.
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After the steel factory got relocated across the border, the
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swings still dripped in the wind, powered by ghosts of
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age children. My early years were defined by boredom, extracurricular cuts,
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and whispers by teachers to follow the path of higher
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education and get out of here. I kept my head down,
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tried to do us as told, and followed Mom to
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Mass every Sunday. Raise to be good, God fearing Catholic.
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And I don't talk to anyone from the dump aside
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from cat a bond, I admit is partly based on
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hating the place we came from. Maybe hating isn't the word,
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Maybe it's something closer to wanting to move away from
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the feeling of pity and despair that come with poverty.
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As everyone slowly turned the back. I mean, I too,
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left for school at seventeen, only reluctantly coming home to visit,
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motivated by guilt more than anything. Dad clears his throat. Hey,
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I was thinking you might want a piece of the
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building as a souvenir, since you collect that kind of stuff, right,
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Maybe a sign or a brig or something. Hunh, My
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Betty from the casino as a guard said it'd be
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fine to have a look around. His door creaks as
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he gets out. I pause, wondering if it's safe. Maybe
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there are guard dogs or squatters or something. No, I think,
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but of course I go sure, Dad, good idea. Why
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would I want a souvenir from this place. There's nothing
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here for me, nothing in this town. Plus it's best
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to be away from it from mom. That's why I
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left at seventeen. As typho lack, he intended it as
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a nice gesture. A jogger mileage passes. She looks at us,
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gazing at the building, and I'm relieved I don't recognize her.
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With another sigh, I follow a dad through the open
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fence and up the weedy remains the driveway. I feel
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the uneven pavement beneath my cheap sandals, and I'm careful
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not to step on glass, try not to think about
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the parallels between my crumbling life and this building. Surprisingly,
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the door glides open, like the building is waiting for
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me to visit one last time. I hesitantly step inside
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that am hit by the smell of urine and mold.
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There is a few degrees cooler, causing goosebumps. Caffeine pumps
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from my blood, heart thumping as I shiver. I want
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to tack my arm into Dad's but I'm too old. Instead,
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I walk closer to his side. I catch myself making
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the sign of the Cross, as if passing a holy space,
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despite the ghostly silence reassuring me of its vacancy. Vacancy
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I expect someone to be waiting at the top of
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the staircase. I tenderly place one foot in front of
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the other, reaching for the handrail. It's been ripped out.
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This isn't one of those horror movies I binge on.
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I remind myself. The steps feel like they might give
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weight beneath my feet, and I stumble, holding onto the wall,
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careful that calls from behind, and I want to tell
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him you go first. The paint is peeling with the
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pieces of the wall that haven't been guided by scrappers.
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An even light peeks through the exposed windows, and I
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narrowly avoid stepping and broken glass and a breeze strewn
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in the hall. Ceiling tiles, chunks of ball bricks, beer bottles,
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coffee cups, paper, and remnants of clothes cover the floor.
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Huge needles and contems are in the corners, not that
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I need to look to know they're there. I must
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sell my feet. When I make my walk downstairs, my
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body pulls me towards exit, legs wobbling. I need out.
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My body cries to me. The past margin with the present,
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and I realized I should never be at the hospital
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on a Saturday for fun. Ready to go, kiddo, Dad's
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swimming voice interrupts the silence as we pass to the
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ground floor AR and I jump a little, nodding too quickly.
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I glance at the AR one final time, chairs still
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bolted in place, the yellow plastic wall with a hole
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to divide the patients from the staff, and un let
24:25
exit sign I search for the easiest thing to take
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from a building. I want no memories of a pry
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of brick off the floor, scattering debrize on my shirt.
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The heat makes the brick wait triple and slip in
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my sweaty hands. As we walk back to the car,
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we were joining the world hawks circling overhead screens, and
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in my bringing ear, I hear the cry of ambulances.
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Sitting in the passenger seat, I rub my finger over
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the rock surface at the muddy brick, reflecting on how
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the brick flits into my world. My apartment is a
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carefully curated museum of my life. There's sand from the
25:05
beach day during a school archival trip to Mexico. I
25:09
remember sitting Sarbasa on the beach in my bikini and
25:12
playing frisbee, feeling for what it's connected with my classmates.
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Although a bit self conscious and a two piece, I
25:20
figured I'd see more of the world collect more sand,
25:23
but that hasn't happened for me yet. Hopefully one day.
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I also have plants from mom's garden, dated DVDs and
25:31
no player school books that I'm not sure I want
25:34
to include this brick in my personal archives. I can
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hear Mom saying something like, don't need to go dragging
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up the past. What's done is done. That's mom for you,
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never addressing things that happened by talking through stuff, let
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alone apologizing. So I have something to tell you, says Dad.
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This isn't easy. You and Mom are finally getting that
25:58
divorce congratulation. I want to tease any thing to shift
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the tone. And besides, I've been waiting to hear the
26:05
news for a while. They're like watching actors from two
26:08
different plays trying to interact on the same set, like
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they don't belong in the same party, let it alone,
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same room. Sure their finances are tangled in the mortgage,
26:18
in the car they share, but that's about it. I'm
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not sure if they've ever have been happy, certainly not
26:24
a time I can remember. But they love each other.
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I suppose your mom here it comes, your mom has cancer.
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She figured it be easier if I told you. Stay
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in the moment, Jade, stay in the moment. My eyes
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search for the hawk, but he's gone. I'm grateful for
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the way to the break in my lap, holding me
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down like a scrap of paper. All the way back
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to Toronto, on the bus to your Jesus. I start
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to pray unto my breath, but I don't know what
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to ask for or if I believe that's the prologue
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of wait with me. Thank you for listening.
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Speaker 1: Thank you, Emily. I do have a couple of questions
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for for uh, both Emily and and go frame about
27:15
their books, and then we'll open the floor up for
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your questions that you might have about about for Emily
27:24
and go frame about their books or their lives in general. Okay,
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both of you, what what truly inspired you to sit
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down and and put words on that on the on
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that page, and and and write the books. Emily, you
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want to go first, I want.
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Speaker 4: To go first.
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Speaker 2: I don't mind going first.
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Speaker 4: To go first, I'm thinking.
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Speaker 2: Okay, So, I have loved writing since I first became
28:08
formally educated at the age of eleven. One of the
28:11
first things I I loved doing is to write because
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I didn't like mauth.
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Speaker 5: So, but I I journaled.
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Speaker 2: I you know, I was a writer since childhood. And
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but that real first spark or how I resorted to
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writing or wanted to write the words that I read
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that I read earlier, was I was navigating grief. I
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had just lost my grandfather in whent t thirteen and
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I had a facas if I had so many things
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sitting inside of me. And that's where it started. And
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I just wrote, and I wrote about my entire journey
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to that day or to that time period. And then
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so yeah, that's where my writing journey began. And then
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I started to share my writing when I became a
29:38
part of an after school reading and writing group facilitated
29:44
by one of my mentors and professors at George From College.
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And he was really one of the ones, one of
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the people that brought this book to life and encouraged
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me to bring it out into the world.
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Speaker 4: Cool Emily, thanks, that's a great answer. So I was
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trying to think of how to be concise with this one,
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since that's such a huge question. So I've always been
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a really active reader and writer. This is my second book,
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Dancing with Ghosts, which you can still find in the library.
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I'll put the title in the chat. Is my first
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book twenty seventeen. Then life got really busy with health,
30:33
with jobs, with a dying parent, so things are busy,
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and then I, you know, I'm part of the mental
30:41
health system, but also an activist in it, and it's
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really interested from so many different lenses of the question
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of they say, in an emergency, get help. What does
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that look like?
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Speaker 5: Right?
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Speaker 4: Like you know say, like you know that common campaign
30:57
we know of, like you know you need help ask?
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So I really wanted to, through affectional lens, take people
31:04
through that journey. So I felt called. I have many
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different means of telling stories, be they academic journals, be
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they zines, be they performance art, but I felt called
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to tell the story in a novel format. So you know,
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I've always been a storyteller, and that's just a matter
31:22
of having time to tell the stories and figuring out
31:25
what format they belong in. Thank you, Thank you.
31:34
Speaker 1: For those people who were who actually get a hold
31:38
of your books and read them. Do you have a
31:42
goal for our society after they've read read your books? Like,
31:49
is there a particular vision that you guys have for
31:51
the world out that you're trying to create in our society?
31:58
Speaker 2: For me, I, as the word say it in my acknowledgement,
32:07
is that follow the path that you set up for
32:12
yourself and don't follow the past that the world has
32:15
for you. Set your own goals and don't abide by
32:24
the limitations that the world has and society has for you,
32:32
because that's exactly what happened to.
32:36
Speaker 3: Me and.
32:39
Speaker 2: Or was going to and that was a battle that
32:44
I fought, and uh, I've had to say no. And
32:55
writing this very book and writing my story and telling
32:58
it to the world was very very much an active
33:00
resistance in those people, to the daggers in these sayers, Emily.
33:13
Speaker 4: Thank you and thanks to letting me think. I'm hearing
33:16
these questions for the first time. So sometimes my brain
33:19
takes a minute to process. Okay. So the question was like,
33:23
what was the goal? So I really wanted to complicate
33:27
kind of simple mental health narratives of the biggest barrier
33:32
is being brave enough to reach out. I wanted to
33:35
bring people with someone who's relatively privileged. No, here's just
33:39
like white Jade is twenty five, white educated, navigate trying
33:44
to navigate the system. So kind of like wait with me,
33:48
like literally, come sit with Jade. See what it's like,
33:51
you know, beyond the narratives of go get help, Okay,
33:53
what are the complications with that? And so one of
33:56
my goals was more complex understanding of the mental health
34:00
system and the advocacy that comes with that around system
34:04
change and funding and models of health care. Another piece
34:08
was even having more empathy to acknowledge that it's not
34:14
always as simple as reaching out. You know, even for
34:16
any disability that's cross disability, just because you reach out
34:20
doesn't mean the resources and the help and the empathy
34:22
and everything is magically there, So across disability, no matter
34:27
what you're navigating. I wanted to complicate that narrative that
34:31
someone in crisis or someone who needs help can just
34:33
reach out. And I also, I'm a millennial, and I
34:36
talk about that a lot because I think we're really
34:39
I'm thirty six. I'll say it on here. I think
34:42
we're a unique generation and that a lot of us
34:46
don't have children, a lot of us don't have nuclear families,
34:49
a lot of us don't have parents around our parents
34:52
who are supportive. So in health systems and the mental
34:56
health system and their health systems is often like when
35:00
you fall through the gaps the health system, they assume
35:03
your how to row life partner is gonna catch the gap,
35:07
or your nuclear family is. So with Jade, she doesn't
35:11
have either those. She has the best friend who's trying
35:14
and then a series of kind of misfits and lovers
35:17
and people in community. So I wanted to look at
35:21
what happens when people's village looks a little different, you know.
35:26
So that was one of my goals as well.
35:31
Speaker 1: All right, thank you both, and how about it at
35:36
this time? If you if you have a question for
35:39
Emily or go fram I used to raise hand emoji
35:42
and I will mute you so you can ask you
35:45
a question. Okay, do you have a comment? Emily trying
35:56
to click the bis we.
35:57
Speaker 2: Have a minute.
35:58
Speaker 4: I figured I would ask my question for girl friend.
36:04
So I was wondering about the journey I'm currently writing
36:07
about Moore. That's what's on my computer. So I was
36:10
wondering about your journey of writing a memoir, what that
36:13
creative process looks like, if there's anything you found particularly
36:16
hard or you didn't want to write about. Just people
36:19
in the room might be interested in memoir, So I
36:21
was curious if you had reflections for yourself or anything
36:25
that might be helpful for them.
36:30
Speaker 1: For me and.
36:34
Speaker 2: Sorry, a perfectionist, someone who had a hard time getting
36:42
into writing and who was always critiqued for their writing,
36:49
I had to kind of blug my ears to that
36:55
and just continue to remind myself to just write. And yeah,
37:05
so I mean my advice would be to just write.
37:09
And I had a fellow author recently tell me that
37:16
if your book or your story isn't for everyone, that
37:20
makes you a great author because you want your story
37:25
to touch certain people. Okay, I step answer your questions,
37:33
feel free to follow up.
37:36
Speaker 1: Okay. So Sarah Burgess asked the question how long did
37:42
it take you guys to write the books?
37:46
Speaker 2: For me, it was a ten year process, and that
37:53
the reason behind that is I took a lot of
37:57
pauses because I was working and then I was also
38:03
pursuing my education. But it also had to do with
38:08
doubt and kind of losing sight of that dream and
38:14
that desire to write and publish my story. So it
38:18
was also a lot of confidence building. So ten years.
38:25
I was seventeen when I started writing, and then twenty
38:30
seven when I published.
38:36
Speaker 4: One second. I'm having trouble, I'm getting there. We go, okay,
38:40
so this is a great question. It was quite the journey.
38:43
It took me a year to write the first draft.
38:46
But they say like first drafts kind of like the
38:48
wrong ingredients on the page. It wasn't. It was really messy,
38:53
it wasn't the exact story I wanted to tell. I
38:55
didn't have the levels of craft. I had to go
38:58
back and rewrite it many, many times. Had a lot
39:04
of support in that rewriting process, so that was a
39:07
big part of it. And I had two grants with this,
39:11
a THAC Toronto Arts Council in Ontario Arts Council grant,
39:15
so I worked with editors to help develop the content
39:18
for it. So getting the actual draft down was a year.
39:22
But getting it and publishing it I started in twenty
39:26
eighteen and it came out this past November, so it's
39:29
definitely a lot of endurance. And I took a lot
39:34
of in addition to the Creative Writing Certificate in Cordia,
39:37
which I took when I was rewriting the drafts because
39:40
I wanted to increase my craft skill so that I
39:44
could kind of edit it better. I also worked with
39:47
many people, took a lot of writing workshops, knew where
39:50
my weaknesses were and worked to improve them. And I
39:55
see Kathy in the room, and I took lots of
39:57
writing workshops with inkwell, Kathy, So I just want to
40:01
say thank you for the help with the production of
40:04
this novel, I'll leave myself unmeded for the next questions.
40:10
Speaker 1: Okay, we have a Caleb free. Have you experienced creative
40:18
block and what helped you get past the block? That's
40:24
a good question.
40:25
Speaker 4: I'll go with this. So I have given myself, like
40:30
O friend said, perfection, permission not to be perfect, permission
40:34
to write first drafts, Permissions to write messy things, Permissions
40:38
to write chapters that I don't know if I'll include
40:40
or not until I'm finished, so that space. Also doing
40:45
different art projects, like I started writing a memoir when
40:49
I was still working on drafting this, so having something
40:52
else to go to now that I'm working on a memoir,
40:56
I'm also working on a romance book, so sometimes when
40:59
I get stuck on one thing, I'll do something else.
41:02
As you guys know, if you know me, are also
41:04
like different creative outlets, So like exploring with photography, sometimes
41:09
taking creative classes, be it like a drop in a
41:11
writing workshop will help me. Reading. Reading really inspires me,
41:16
especially if I'm feeling stuck and just walking away from it.
41:20
You know, ideas, creative ideas tend to come to me
41:23
more when I'm not stressed. When I'm not overly focused
41:26
on it, so if I kind of take a step back,
41:29
but other creative things, be it photography, be it music,
41:32
be it attending a play, reading a book. Talking with
41:35
my artist friends really helps. I know a lot of
41:37
you in the rum or artists as well, So just
41:40
chit chatting with you guys, it helps you know. Thanks.
41:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, And just to echo what Emily You're saying, taking
41:51
a break and taking pauses was important. I often, like,
41:57
even now that the book is finished and published and
42:01
to the world, when I'm like, wow, I took so
42:06
long just to write a part one of my memoir,
42:10
But then I pause and reflect, and I said that
42:15
these breaks and these pauses and walking away from my
42:19
work were an important part of the process to because
42:25
especially like what I've written about and when it comes
42:32
to memoir writing, a lot of the journeys that we
42:36
explore and then I've explored was an emotional journey. So
42:44
we want to make sure that we give ourselves that
42:48
break that we need. Because I've often heard from my
42:53
readers and then also like I've been asked questions, what
42:58
was it like to write about everything after he lived it?
43:03
And I said it was like reliving well, like what
43:07
I lived through twice, living it in real life and
43:11
then reliving it through the writing process.
43:16
Speaker 5: So taking a.
43:18
Speaker 2: Break to kind of rekindle that creative creativity that's in
43:25
you is important.
43:31
Speaker 1: Okay, Uh, Danielle Violin.
43:37
Speaker 2: Uh.
43:38
Speaker 1: If she's asking the question what was your favorite part
43:41
about writing your books? Go frame you want to go first?
43:47
Speaker 2: Oh, what was my favorite Holding my book for the
43:51
first time? That was one that was one of my
43:56
favorite parts because having it as a printed many a
44:04
printed manuscript for a long time, and bringing it to
44:09
the after school reading and writing group that I was
44:11
a part of and then ten years and then bringing
44:18
it into the actual book. I was like, wait, what
44:23
I wrote this? Uh? You know it's real. I did
44:26
it in kind of trying to to settle with like
44:33
to soak that in. That was one of one of
44:37
my favorite moments. And then my second favorite moment was
44:42
launched of the book because a lot of the people
44:47
that were along with my with my author journey, we're there.
44:55
Speaker 4: Okay, Emily, go ahead, that's a good ad answer, and
45:00
I'm going to say some of the same things. So
45:04
it goes from an idea in your head of I
45:06
would like to tell a story. I would write something
45:09
to having a finished product, and there's small little you know,
45:14
I'm never going to be in like the New York
45:15
Times Review or something like that, but there's all these
45:18
small amazing moments of I set out and I finished
45:22
what I started, you know. So one of those huge
45:25
moments was my sister yesterday sent me photos of her
45:29
checking out my book from the Welland, Ontario Library that's
45:33
my hometown. They have the book on their shelf, has
45:36
a sticker that says local author, and my sister made
45:39
a video of checking it out. So there's those cool
45:42
moments from this exists as an idea and so many people,
45:46
so many ideas in my head too. I took the
45:49
years to see it through. Also, I didn't mention a
45:52
chapter of this was published in a disability anthology called
45:56
Nothing Without Us, and from there it was chosen in
46:00
to be translated or chosen to be studied by a
46:04
book club in Scotland. And I got a random email
46:08
one day, like five years ago from a book club saying, hey,
46:11
we're studying your story and also we translated it into
46:15
sign language. And I got a video of these men
46:19
reading a chapter of my book in sign language in
46:22
Scotland sent to me and I'm traveling the world slowly,
46:26
but I haven't been to Scotland yet, so it's absolutely amazing.
46:29
Those small moments of seeing stories make it beyond places
46:32
I've been in the world. And the launch was amazing
46:35
as well. Glad Days one of my favorite glad Day
46:38
books is one of my favorite places in the world,
46:41
and it struggled really economically to stay open. It managed
46:45
to hold onto the pandemic. I managed to get my
46:47
book out and I got a launch at glad Day
46:50
so that was a huge life goal. So that was
46:53
absolutely amazing being on their on their floor.
47:01
Speaker 1: Natalie has a question. So Natalie, I think I just
47:06
summuted you.
47:08
Speaker 6: Hello, can you hear me?
47:10
Speaker 1: Oh? There you go?
47:12
Speaker 6: Yes, okay. First of all, I'll just correct you really quickly.
47:16
Please don't be offunded, Michael, it's Natalia.
47:20
Speaker 1: I am so sorry, no worries.
47:22
Speaker 6: I'm just using It's okay. But first of all, I
47:25
wanted to thank both Emily and girlfriend for sharing your
47:30
writing today. I'm quite intrigued by both of you and
47:36
your experience and is everything okay?
47:43
Speaker 4: Okay?
47:45
Speaker 6: The question that I have I too dabble in the
47:49
ways of writing and one of the things that I
47:55
suffer from constantly myself. So go Frond. When you were
48:04
earlier about the ten year process, I'm like, okay, I
48:09
totally get that. And yet, on the other hand, Emily,
48:13
when you spoke to being able to push out a
48:17
draft in one year, again, I'm also thinking to myself, Okay,
48:22
this is her second book, and you've published quite a
48:25
few short stories as well. Perhaps the process has gotten
48:29
better for you. But long story short, how do you
48:37
how do you push yourself from constantly editing while you're
48:42
writing if you've been able to succeed at that, Does
48:49
that make sense? Okay?
48:56
Speaker 2: I believe Would you have to take this question or
48:58
do you want need to go first?
49:05
Speaker 4: Okay? So I would say one of the things that
49:09
I like, I have a memoir honestly finished on my computer.
49:12
It is an absolute mess. I just wrote it straight through,
49:17
and that gave me so much creative liberty because no
49:21
one's eyes had been on it. I didn't bring it
49:22
to a writing group, I didn't share it, and then
49:25
I'm going to read it through, edit it a few times,
49:28
get it to the best of my ability, and then
49:30
bring it to my writing peers, and then workshop it.
49:33
I find in spaces I've sometimes every process has been different,
49:38
different stages of life, different amounts of time to write,
49:41
depending on how much I'm I'm working different genres. So
49:44
I don't have one process nailedown. But I do find
49:48
when I brought it to like critique circles or shared
49:50
with people, I was a lot more critical. I wanted
49:53
something that was a lot more finished. So I kind
49:56
of have a rule of no sharing certain projects until
50:00
there are a certain degreef initial So that's one of
50:02
the things for me, and I really try to move
50:04
away from judging myself. I remind myself that like the
50:07
first draft is, like someone told me, like a first
50:10
draft is like judging a cake when you put the
50:13
flour and the eggs on the table and say, well,
50:15
this doesn't taste good. Well, it's not the cake yet,
50:16
it's just ingredients. So just getting it all down and
50:20
then working with it, you know, so and plus two,
50:25
you know, if you're fines finessing things like grammar and
50:28
whatnot at the beginning, then you're unlikely to go back
50:32
and pull it apart. And I know it's going to
50:34
get completely destroyed. Chapters are going to get deleted, and
50:37
things are going to change, so do not hold too
50:39
tightly to the first draft. And I was just to
50:42
get it down. Those are my.
50:44
Speaker 2: Thoughts, yeah, and to echo Emily in some ways well
50:52
to begin that I'm not sure if I have overcome
50:58
that editor in the yet. And this was obviously only
51:04
my first book. But I found that, particularly for the
51:10
genre that I wrote was a memoir that I felt
51:17
as if I, like I hear myself telling the story,
51:22
and that helped a lot in the writing process. And
51:28
of course it looked like a tornado mean to me
51:33
in the beginning. And when I I found that when
51:39
I first started fighting, and when I really waited for
51:44
that desire to really come, things just started flowing. And
51:51
I wait for those moments when I have that idea
51:57
or that I have that first to write, or have
51:59
that desire versus forcing the process, because I find that
52:08
if I, you know, force myself to write, that creates
52:12
more of an agitation with like, you know, this has
52:14
to be perfect, you know you have to. I especially
52:20
upsets over like commerce, periods, punctuation and those things and
52:27
and that have to do with my tast and things
52:32
I was told by educators, which was, you know, no
52:36
run on sentences, you have to put the period there,
52:39
you have to do this, you have to do that.
52:42
It was never just just right until college for me. Really,
52:53
So yeah, I don't know if I answered your question
52:56
right perfectly, but I I found that waiting for those
53:04
moments when I feel like writing really helped with that.
53:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, critique, Okay, go for it. I have one that
53:14
it's really suited for you. The question is from Sarah Burgess,
53:21
and how do you end a memoir if your life
53:25
isn't over with?
53:30
Speaker 2: That's that That's the very question I asked myself, like,
53:36
and that's exactly why it took me ten years to
53:40
put this thing out into the world. It doesn't for me,
53:48
at least from my own personal experience, and what I've learned,
53:52
your life doesn't have to be done yet. It can
53:55
be put in parts and in part cularly in memoirs.
54:01
And what I've experienced of them is there are certain
54:07
parts of your life that you do want to share,
54:09
and there are parts of your life that you don't,
54:13
So splitting it into parts and I found that that
54:17
was the most helpful thing for me to realize, because
54:22
for me, it was like a roller coaster of emotions. Yes,
54:25
I do want to publish. No I don't, not anymore,
54:29
never mind maybe not, maybe publishing is not for me.
54:34
Until it was like that's it. You know, you're the
54:38
only one that's holding you back into yourself publishing in parts,
54:45
you know, And this is part one of my memoir. Yes,
54:50
I'm not far, I'm concerned. I'm not done living. I'm
54:55
not done being alive because I am only thirty years old.
55:01
But the first twenty one years are covered and like more,
55:10
critical moments of the first twenty one years have been
55:13
covered in this book. So you don't have to be done. Women,
55:17
your life doesn't want to be done in order for
55:20
you and right a memore.
55:28
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I'm just going to say this, Natalia,
55:35
I hope that you get your book written and published soon.
55:39
It sounds like you're you're headed down a really cool path.
55:43
I have a question for you, for both of you guys, though,
55:45
about editing. I understand this question is coming from a
55:53
person who is myself. I'm extremely dyslexic, and if I
55:58
don't have a good editing process, you just look really bad.
56:04
So how did you guys find the right editor for
56:07
each of you.
56:13
Speaker 2: So for me, it's a it was a very unque
56:16
journey because I was self published. I had no grants
56:22
I and that's why I chose the path of self publishing.
56:29
So I really resorted to people whom I trust to
56:36
have their eyes on my work. And that was a
56:39
process in them of itself. So I started by editing
56:45
it and then there came a point of where I
56:49
had to hand it over to someone else, and the
56:57
after school reading and writing group that I was a
56:59
part of played a key role in that, where I
57:04
had several of the members, including my former professor and
57:10
mentor that facilitated the group also gave me his insights
57:16
and his feedback on it. So it was it was
57:21
about finding a safe space for me to share my
57:24
work because being as young as I am and not
57:28
having access to the resources financially, That's that's how editing
57:34
worked for me.
57:36
Speaker 4: Yeah, Emily, I'll dump in here. So editing this was
57:44
quite the process to the point that I almost gave
57:47
up and I wasn't going to publish this book. So
57:51
side story, last April, I broke my ankle and this
57:56
book was sitting in my computer finished for like three years,
57:59
clocked dust. I'd given up on it. Life moved on.
58:03
I even talked to my pastor. I was like, what
58:05
should I do with this book? And she was like,
58:07
sounds like you're over move on. I wasn't going to
58:10
put it out in the world. And then I broke
58:14
my ankle. I was in the hospital. The book came
58:17
into my head, and then I was laying in my
58:19
bed the next morning, had this gross oversized T shirt on.
58:23
I'd been in the hospital, n leg in the cast
58:26
put up, and I knew I had the next few
58:28
months that I had to stay at home with a
58:29
broken ankle, and I just had this book in my brain.
58:33
I just woke up that next day after the night
58:35
of the hospital being like, I'm publishing that book. So anyway,
58:38
it was a huge journey. Twenty eighteen, one of the
58:43
chapters got published in Anthology, which was really encouraging. Twenty nineteen,
58:49
I got some grant funding to get an editor, but
58:52
she basically told me to learn how to write, go
58:55
to school, toss the book. And I was very discouraged then,
59:00
and I kept redrafting it based on her comments. So
59:04
the content of it so I'm not talking about comments here.
59:07
A content editor thinks about Hey, character development, story development
59:11
is as realistic? Is this believable? So actually looking at
59:14
the content. So I had to work on the content,
59:18
rework the content. Then I worked with another editor who
59:22
liked it quite a bit more, and I worked on
59:26
the content then and then I got better readers. So
59:29
you guys might know what better readers are. So they're
59:32
not editors. They're just people who like reading in your genre.
59:36
And you guys might use them yourself, and you guys
59:39
might even end up being my better readers. I think
59:41
some of the people in the room are. So it
59:44
might just be someone who you give the book to
59:46
as a friend, Hey what do you think of this?
59:48
And get feedback. So that was enormously helpful. And then
59:52
because of my disabilities and because I had the privilege
59:56
of having some grant funding which I don't currently have,
59:59
I got aligne editor to go over at once. I
1:00:03
know there's still typos and messes in there. You know
1:00:06
it only had one go through, but I had both content,
1:00:10
so someone helping me develop like the characters, the story structure,
1:00:14
content and then copy editor. So Michael, what you're talking
1:00:19
about needing would be like the copy editor, someone who
1:00:21
helps with the gram or the commas, the typos. Highly recommend.
1:00:26
I know it's expensive by getting eyes on your book,
1:00:29
whether it's how go friended with your friends and community
1:00:33
group and bartering for services people in the community, or
1:00:37
if you have the money to professionally or through grants,
1:00:40
but really getting people to read over your pieces before
1:00:44
they end up in the world, especially because it's such
1:00:46
a huge process to getting published. You can't just turn
1:00:49
around and say, oh, I'm gonna republish this or fix
1:00:52
that typo on that page. You know it's out in
1:00:54
the world. It's done anyway. That's my little lecture, get
1:00:59
some kind of editing.
1:01:01
Speaker 2: And what I will add to that is because I know,
1:01:06
like some of us are very our stories are very personal,
1:01:10
or we might question why do we need an editor
1:01:12
and things like that, or why do we need someone
1:01:15
else to look at our work? And I have experienced
1:01:19
this firsthand. And what I'll say to that is, you
1:01:25
can't expect yourself to be a writer and an editor
1:01:31
all at once. Because you've become too close to your work.
1:01:36
You will you You're either going to not see the
1:01:42
improvements let me call them errors improvements that you're a
1:01:47
reader might see and or you might read your work
1:01:57
a little too much and start seeing errors that are
1:02:01
that aren't errors. So that's why getting someone else to
1:02:06
take a look at your work is very important. And
1:02:09
that's I think one of the things that built my
1:02:13
confidences as an evolving writer, and to be able to
1:02:18
build that trust in certain people that I was close with.
1:02:24
Speaker 4: And I also say with something like this, my impolding
1:02:27
up my book time really helped. Like when I put
1:02:30
the book aside for a few years and then I
1:02:34
took it a lot less personally when I was getting
1:02:36
certain negative feedback or critiques, but I was able to
1:02:39
see it a lot clearer because I was a lot
1:02:41
less close to the first draft of it that I
1:02:44
had written back in twenty eighteen. So actually putting it
1:02:47
down for a few years actually made it a lot
1:02:50
easier to work on when I went back to it
1:02:52
last year.
1:02:54
Speaker 1: Okay, we have another question from Kayla, and do you
1:03:01
have any mentors that have inspired your creative process? Now
1:03:07
that's a pretty cool question, and they tell you we'll
1:03:13
get back to you in a second.
1:03:18
Speaker 2: So, as I said in the beginning, not only my
1:03:24
creative process. But the process in putting this book out
1:03:30
and being able to tell my story overall was inspired
1:03:34
by my professor mentor English professor now a dear friend
1:03:43
who believed in me and believed in the story that
1:03:49
I was telling and took time to honor it, if
1:03:57
that makes sense. So that that was the push. That
1:04:05
was one of the first pushes that I that I received.
1:04:09
Speaker 4: A big question and I could answer it with you know,
1:04:13
several different artists and the community names I know Kayla
1:04:16
Assis were part of some of the similar artists groups,
1:04:19
some of the artists I've worked with there, but the
1:04:22
people who saw me as a writer along. So I
1:04:25
took several writing classes in high school and my creative
1:04:29
writing teacher, who I unfortunately lost contact with, signed my
1:04:33
grade twelve yearbook, invite me to your first book launch.
1:04:36
That's what it says in there, you know, And when
1:04:38
she wrote that, I've believed it's going to happen. It
1:04:41
didn't happen until ten years later, in twenty seventeen. Was
1:04:44
dancing with clothes, but she knew that was in my future.
1:04:48
So I grew up in a pretty strict family. They're
1:04:51
very into going to school, and going to class on time,
1:04:55
and I was definitely not encouraged to play hooky. But
1:04:58
in grade twelve, my mom and parents took math class
1:05:03
very seriously. And one day my mom said, I'm picking
1:05:07
you up from school at lunch. It was not a discussion,
1:05:09
it was a statement, and we're going to Harvey's for lunch,
1:05:13
and then we're going to see one of your favorite
1:05:15
authors because we're doing a talk. And I was like, well,
1:05:17
what about math class? And my mom, who was a
1:05:20
stickler for school, said something that stuck with me. She said, Emily,
1:05:24
some things are more important than math class. And she
1:05:26
wrote me some fake truancy note, took me out for Hamburger,
1:05:30
and brought me to see one of these authors. And
1:05:33
basically the point of this was, you know, you got
1:05:36
to stick through school, you got to pay attention to
1:05:38
math class most days, but now and then you got
1:05:41
to follow your dreams. And today it's one of those
1:05:44
and when one of your favorite authors is in town,
1:05:46
then that's the time that you skip school and go
1:05:49
so knowing when to I work my day job, I
1:05:52
do all of those responsible things. But there's always been
1:05:56
all throughout my life, not the same people, but There's
1:05:58
always been a few people in my corner who believed
1:06:00
in my dreams, you know, and even the people who
1:06:03
believed in this process, like one of my friends, my
1:06:05
friend Lisa Anita Wegner, designed the cover for me. When
1:06:09
I said I want to do this, certain people stepped
1:06:11
up and said, okay, I'll help you with this piece,
1:06:14
you know, thank you.
1:06:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I just wanted to say that I relate
1:06:20
to Emily in terms of getting people to do different work,
1:06:24
you different things in this book. I had my sister
1:06:29
designed this book cover on Canada.
1:06:32
Speaker 6: But okay, so now my question has to do with
1:06:40
have you at any point either one of you had
1:06:44
to advocate for the story that you're telling. That is
1:06:48
an editing process. If someone had suggested, hey, you know what,
1:06:52
I don't really like this character, or I don't really
1:06:55
like where this story is going, or even still, given
1:06:58
that both of you speak about disabilities where they're they
1:07:03
almost wanted to sanitize your stories and can you speak
1:07:08
to that.
1:07:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you might have seen me laugh when you
1:07:16
asked that question, because that is quite literally a reality
1:07:20
that I lived every single day. I've had people critique,
1:07:27
I've had people metaphorically ripe this book apart. I've had
1:07:35
bookstores saying no, they wouldn't put it on the shelf.
1:07:39
I I've had book signings be canceled by bookstores when
1:07:48
they said, you know that they would that they would
1:07:53
take me on. And am I gonna lie say that's
1:07:59
not paid both? No, I'm not going to. But what
1:08:03
I will say is there comes a point where I
1:08:07
just owned it. And as I said earlier in that
1:08:14
a fellow author told me that if if, if, if
1:08:21
you don't have everyone like your book and you only
1:08:23
have a certain audience, that makes you a great author,
1:08:27
because your book is not supposed to be for everybody.
1:08:30
And that was and that was what kind of helped
1:08:34
in that process, because I'm not joking when I say
1:08:39
that when I've gotten these kind of punches, I've I've
1:08:45
sat with myself and not been I was, I was broken,
1:08:51
but yeah, I'm I'm I've told myself to just own it.
1:08:57
And this is a story that I'm telling you that
1:09:03
I've lived and I know what's important to me. So uh,
1:09:14
it is hard, but I've learned on my ears.
1:09:23
Speaker 4: I'm nodding along and I want to say that like, yeah,
1:09:27
things aren't for everybody. So I know and I remember,
1:09:31
no matter even if everybody else just likes that book,
1:09:33
I know the handful of Battle readers that said you
1:09:35
need to publish this loved it. So I always go
1:09:38
back to these, you know, this is this is who
1:09:40
the story is for. This is the demographic. It's not
1:09:43
ever for everybody. I'm a huge fan of music and
1:09:47
I was hanging out with people a few months ago
1:09:50
and someone was like, oh, I don't like Nirvana, And
1:09:52
I was like, how do you not like Nirvana? Like
1:09:54
that was, you know, a thought in my head. And
1:09:56
then I was like, if someone doesn't like Nirvana, like
1:10:00
one of the greatest you know, like the music, then like,
1:10:03
obviously someone's not gonna like meet. Like nothing is for everyone, right,
1:10:08
So going back to that, my first editor really didn't
1:10:13
like my main character, Jade. Jade is autistic, coded and
1:10:18
in mental health crisis. So at the beginning, she's very
1:10:21
selfish because she's in crisis, so she's not super cognizant
1:10:25
of her like her friend's needs, honestly not being a
1:10:28
great kind of two way friend because she's in crisis.
1:10:31
And my editor kind of said, you know, your main
1:10:34
character is kind of a bit and all that relatable
1:10:36
in different words. And I was really hurt by that
1:10:39
because I was thinking, like, what do you mean, like
1:10:42
the character comes off as too cold and too mean,
1:10:45
and that other people read it other better readers were like, yeah,
1:10:49
but that's kind of sometimes what people in crisis. They
1:10:52
might not be sitting there in the most cognisant mood,
1:10:59
So like thinking about like who's relatable? And I was
1:11:02
thinking like, sometimes do you need to write likable main characters,
1:11:09
because I don't know if at the Endj's likable. Sometimes
1:11:11
you like or sometimes you don't if you read it
1:11:13
so pushing past that that I introduce you a kind
1:11:18
of morally gray main character who's fighting her own fight,
1:11:23
who's sometimes selfish because she's dealing with so much. Right,
1:11:27
And I did go back and try to make her
1:11:30
a better friend, so I worked on that. I was like,
1:11:33
you know, her best friend Bee, who I showed in
1:11:35
the intro chapter. I was like, okay, I went back
1:11:37
and made her ask her more questions back and show
1:11:40
up for her a bit more, But I didn't make
1:11:43
her a great friend. Someone who's going through a mental
1:11:45
health crisis, who's having a breakdown, isn't going to be
1:11:48
in the best shape to be a two way friend.
1:11:51
So I wanted to kind of challenge like the likability
1:11:55
politics on two levels of here's a main character who disabled,
1:12:00
who you may or may not like, you know, and
1:12:02
you might not like them because they're disabled, and I'm
1:12:05
still going to present that to you. And then as
1:12:07
me and girlfriend are kind of talking a little bit
1:12:10
about navigating the struggles of being disabled putting our books
1:12:15
that were published into the mainstream market and those challenges
1:12:20
of us as people trying to get them out there.
1:12:23
You know, that's a second layer anyway, a bit abstract,
1:12:25
but popped into my head. Thank you. I hope that
1:12:28
kind of answers your thoughts.
1:12:35
Speaker 1: Tell you go ahead, I think you can emute yourself, right, Okay.
1:12:42
Speaker 6: Yes, okay. So to piggyback off of that, and thank
1:12:47
you Emily for talking about likability right and the fact
1:12:53
that being human right, and we tend to make gods
1:12:57
or monsters out of people I know, and that's really
1:13:02
not what it is to be an authentic human. We
1:13:05
have likable aspects and a lot of despicable aspects, every
1:13:09
single one of us. To piggyback off of what you
1:13:14
were saying. And again this is addressing both of you
1:13:20
as a question, did you ever find in the process
1:13:24
that people, because you were talking about disabilities, that they
1:13:30
ever wanted to infantilize your characters or your story in
1:13:37
the sense that so, for instance, Emily, when you talked
1:13:43
about speaking about a main character who happens to be
1:13:49
disabled and you may or may not like her, right,
1:13:53
And of course everyone you know, we see this oftentimes
1:13:57
when we speak of the elderly, right oftentimes that oh,
1:14:02
she's so cute because she's over the age of seventy five.
1:14:07
And I think that sometimes happens too with individuals in
1:14:12
the disabled community. And did you ever have that kind
1:14:15
of pushed upon you and something again that you might
1:14:19
have to advocate for and say, hey, no, you know,
1:14:22
this is my character, she's got or this is my story.
1:14:27
There are very human sides to that, which are both
1:14:30
good and bad. Does that make.
1:14:34
Speaker 4: I've had that happen in my real personal life, but
1:14:38
in this specific book, I actually had the opposite. The
1:14:43
one example that comes to mind was there's only one
1:14:46
sex scene in it, and it was closed door. It
1:14:49
was implied and then closed door scene not written out
1:14:52
and the first editor was like, this is going to
1:14:54
add character development, write out the scene, and there's a
1:14:58
few things like that where they want actually wanted more
1:15:01
kind of adult content for it. So actually, I see
1:15:04
what you're saying, and I see it happen a lot
1:15:06
in real life. In terms of the story production, it
1:15:08
one the other way. So yeah, I got an open door, Seccceine.
1:15:16
Speaker 5: So for me, it's quite a bit different because the characters,
1:15:22
like characters I talk about in this book, including but
1:15:28
not limited to myself, are real, are real people.
1:15:34
Speaker 6: And.
1:15:37
Speaker 2: It's funny when you were asking that question. The moment
1:15:41
that came to me was in the when I was
1:15:45
in the process of promoting my book and you know,
1:15:49
getting readers to put their eyes on it and kind
1:15:53
of you know, pick it up or whatever. When I
1:15:57
tell people my title, I had this person message me
1:16:05
back and go, oh my god, that sounds like that
1:16:08
sounds very scary. I think I think they said something
1:16:12
along the lines of terrible.
1:16:16
Speaker 3: And I was.
1:16:20
Speaker 2: Like, oh my god, like, why do you say things
1:16:24
like that? And I had to explain to that person
1:16:28
that this was actually a statement that I my parents
1:16:33
were told about me when I was born. So it
1:16:37
speaks to real life, it speaks to a true story.
1:16:42
And it was even then that they didn't even bother
1:16:45
apologizing or anything. And then in terms of critiquing or
1:16:58
uh not, I didn't have very many characters critiqued, But
1:17:05
in terms of parts that were critiqued was everyone that
1:17:10
reads this book thinks that I'm going to entirely tell
1:17:16
the story of my disability. But that's not, that's not
1:17:22
the whole, that's not As a matter of fact, I
1:17:26
I diverge away from that. I don't talk about my
1:17:31
diagnosis much beyond the first chapter, but I talk about
1:17:38
other things and you know, other life happenings and how
1:17:42
I really lived a normal life. So they're like, why
1:17:46
didn't you explain or define your conditions even more? And
1:17:51
I'm like, well, if you want to read that, go
1:17:55
go look it up in the dictionary, because that's not
1:17:57
what I'm here to do.
1:18:00
Speaker 1: I kind of comment to that, though, because honestly, go frame,
1:18:08
how much of your of you go from that spiritual,
1:18:13
energetic person that that you are, the intellect that you are,
1:18:17
how much of that is spina bifia, and how much
1:18:20
of it is everything else that is your life?
1:18:22
Speaker 5: Right? So that's that.
1:18:26
Speaker 2: But that's exactly it. Everyone that reads my story, someone
1:18:33
you know, or whatever a store a story written about
1:18:36
disability by disabled author is written, they're gonna think it's
1:18:42
a story about illness. It's a soft story. It's a
1:18:45
story that tells you that living with a disability is
1:18:49
a horrific thing and it involves being a hospitals and
1:18:56
all the things those medicalized narratives. I wrote about living
1:19:05
with a disability. I wrote about navigatating challenges in the
1:19:09
medical system, having to fight through my education, and how
1:19:17
much of a more difficult fight that is because to
1:19:23
have challenges that I face. But I didn't go head
1:19:29
deep or knee deep into like you know, this is
1:19:32
this is what's kind of diffident involves, this is what
1:19:35
hydrocephal was involves. I it was more of breaking that
1:19:42
cycle and breaking the narrative that disabled people are disabled,
1:19:47
but there they live other they live lives, they do
1:19:54
quote unquote normal.
1:19:55
Speaker 1: Things, right, Yeah, totally.
1:20:01
Speaker 2: Breaking that stereotype.
1:20:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh oh okay.
1:20:09
Speaker 4: Okay, there I go. Michael. I just wanted to say,
1:20:12
maybe take can we take one last question and then
1:20:15
have time to tell people where to find their books
1:20:18
and be how to follow us on socials.
1:20:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that would be a great idea, Emily one
1:20:26
last questions.
1:20:33
Speaker 2: And also if people people walk away with questions, this
1:20:37
is why we're providing our socials. Feel free to contact
1:20:41
either Emily or I if you walk away from this
1:20:45
event with questions that were unanswered.
1:20:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, thank you for the heart emojis and Italian.
1:20:54
You're I. I'm guessing you're You're an amazing person, So
1:21:01
go ahead, a girl friend, why don't you best ways
1:21:04
to find your book and uh and staying stay in
1:21:08
touch with you?
1:21:11
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I am found on Instagram at hashtag girlfriend
1:21:18
Ali Alis Underscore author. So my first name was no
1:21:24
Space Underscore author. I'm trying to remember. This is not
1:21:29
me trying to remember my Instagram handle and Facebook. It's
1:21:36
just my first and lasting gold friend Ali S G
1:21:39
H O F R A N. And then my last
1:21:44
name A L Y A S. S. My book is
1:21:48
found for the locals in the room that live in Toronto.
1:21:54
It is found at the Toronto Public Library and if
1:21:58
you'd like to own a copy, it is on Amazon.
1:22:02
It is available at Indigo, and it is available in
1:22:12
accessible to all bookstores. They just have to order it
1:22:15
for you. If you'd like a side copy, I can
1:22:21
put a link in the chat to my website or
1:22:26
feel free to message me and I'll send it to
1:22:28
you later. And those copies will come with swag it
1:22:35
like merch and signed personally by me. And again, my
1:22:43
book is called you have twenty four hours to live.
1:22:48
Speaker 1: Okay, you put it back on meat again. Okay, Emily,
1:22:54
go ahead.
1:22:56
Speaker 4: Okay, So I put my socials in the chat. You
1:23:00
can contact me. That is one second. That is my
1:23:06
author Facebook page, my Instagram. And then if you have
1:23:10
good reads, I am collecting reviews. Please if you I
1:23:15
know some of you've already read, or if you end
1:23:18
up reading it, reviews are super helpful. So yeah, any
1:23:22
of those spots you can find me. And then for books,
1:23:26
you can look at your local library. If they don't
1:23:28
have it, you can always ask them to carry it.
1:23:34
So I want to first of all, one second, one
1:23:39
second bear with me here. I wanted to mention this
1:23:45
book because we're focusing on Wait with Me, which is
1:23:50
my new release. But in twenty thirteen, I edited a
1:23:55
book called Mighty and Anthology of Disabled Superheroes. One second,
1:24:01
I have it here. Actually my pile of books, and
1:24:05
that is fifteen stories with the tagline no Inspiration porn
1:24:10
written by disabled authors or disabled people get to be
1:24:14
the main characters. So that is a Canadian small press
1:24:19
Canadian and across the world off disabled authors linked to.
1:24:22
That's in the chat. My first book, Dancing with Ghosts,
1:24:27
is largely out of print, but you can still get
1:24:30
it at the Toronto Library. And then where are we
1:24:35
right now?
1:24:37
Speaker 3: Wait with me?
1:24:38
Speaker 4: Is on Amazon. That's a paper book or kindle. I'm
1:24:42
trying to get it into libraries across Canada and the world,
1:24:45
so if you want, please order it to your local library.
1:24:48
If you need help doing that, send me a message.
1:24:52
And it's on Amazon. And glad Day Books has signed copies.
1:24:58
So Glad Day in Toronto and another story in Toronto
1:25:01
which is in ronson Scales also has copies. If you
1:25:05
give me a minute, I'll put the link to uh
1:25:08
Amazon in the chat. That was a lot of words.
1:25:12
Thanks for bearing with me.
1:25:15
Speaker 2: I also just I also just put my Instagram at
1:25:21
the links to my Instagram and Facebook on in the chat.
1:25:26
And I'm in the process of putting my good Great
1:25:31
and Amazon.
1:25:33
Speaker 4: So the link I just put was Amazon will send
1:25:35
out a thank you email with all of the info
1:25:38
with our contact with the books, and thank you so
1:25:41
much for being here and spending this time with us
1:25:47
asking the questions. I really appreciate it. If any of
1:25:51
you know people who might be interested in conversations like
1:25:56
this and books like this, please pass along our you know,
1:26:01
our information are follow us on good Reads or whatever
1:26:05
you know, and thank you for being here.
1:26:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, okay, So as a final note, I
1:26:16
was gonna.
1:26:17
Speaker 4: Say, I know, I was gonna say sorry, I had
1:26:18
a migrant and I was blanking, and I was gonna say,
1:26:20
I know most of the people of the names I
1:26:23
recognize in the room are creative people. So I really
1:26:26
hope that spending time here like helps your creative process.
1:26:30
And I'm excited to see all of your projects as well,
1:26:33
because I know it's mainly creative folks in the room. Yea,
1:26:36
and thank you okay.
1:26:38
Speaker 1: As a as a final note and kind of self
1:26:40
serving to my own creativity and production team, this will
1:26:47
be actually up on the in the next few days
1:26:51
on the Depictions Media YouTube channel, and it will also
1:26:57
be on our podcast system under Inspiring Stories, and it
1:27:03
will also be there will be a text UH version
1:27:10
UH for for the event on depictions dot medium and
1:27:14
it will include like content information, UH, contact information for
1:27:19
both Emily, where to find their books and everything, and
1:27:22
how to stay in touch with both Emily and go Fram.
1:27:26
So UH please do feel free to to follow or
1:27:32
google uh depictions media and you can find more information
1:27:36
that way and links. At this time, UH, as we
1:27:42
all decide to leave camera and everything, I will leave
1:27:45
the event open for U for at least another five
1:27:49
to ten minutes so that everybody has a chance to
1:27:52
click on those links that are in the chat right
1:27:54
now if you haven't haven't already started, so that you know,
1:28:00
we all have a chance to stay in touch with
1:28:02
Emily and go Fram, two wonderful people that are not
1:28:08
truly They may have a disability, but they are not
1:28:10
truly defined by that disability, and that they have found
1:28:15
strength in their life overall. And I am happy that
1:28:20
to call you both friends. Emily, I've known you maybe
1:28:24
a little longer than go Fram, but you're you're both
1:28:28
wonderful people in my lives.
1:28:31
Speaker 4: And thank you so much Michael for volunteering your time
1:28:34
helping us put together this together and hosting us.
1:29:02
Speaker 3: I don't know so I was reform action.
1:29:11
Speaker 7: So way, this is say a reason.
1:29:31
Speaker 3: Shad be Cho shows we can't trust.
1:29:42
Speaker 1: Wait, w.
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Speaker 3: Past yes s. She goes to see it strip stop stop,
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but no chaste.
1:31:02
Speaker 1: The show has been produced by Depictions Media. Please contact
1:31:07
us at depictions dot media for more information