Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Healing Your Marriage When Trust is Broken | Guest Cindy Beall Enneagram Two

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Healing Your Marriage When Trust is Broken | Guest Cindy Beall Enneagram Two · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm Amy Wicks, a Jesus and Enneagram enthusiast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: As a wife, mama of three humans, and a fur baby, I get it.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Juggling entrepreneurship in a family is challenging.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I believe the Lord does want your work to be enjoyable.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: As an Enneagram Type 7, I am all about the fun factor.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: And this podcast is here to help you put the joy back into working mom life.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you can see 1 Timothy 6.17 come to pass in your own week.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's a verse that says, God has given us all things to enjoy.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: All?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, friends, it means all.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Motherhood, work from home life, or work out of the home life.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: With the Lord's help, there's truly a way to feel calm, balance, joy, clarity, and peace in any arena of life.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Simply Fullhearted Podcast, where you can expect solo style and interview style episodes that are full of faith-based concepts, simple ideas, Enneagram insights, alongside practical tips to help you put that smile back on your face when it comes to doing life with Jesus.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now get your headphones and head to that big pile of dishes in the sink, or maybe that bathroom that needed cleaning two weeks ago.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: And let's get to learning together.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hey friends, today we are going to tackle a sensitive topic on this episode.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important to give a few disclaimers so you can decide if this episode is going to be helpful for you to listen to today.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: It might be best to save it for a later stage of life, or maybe even never.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: And either one is okay.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think having these disclaimers in mind will help you listen thoughtfully through this discussion if you're going to listen, and also help it to be a little bit more fruitful as you tune in today.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: I really would love you to consider a few essential things as you listen to Cindy and I tackle the challenging topic of healing a marriage when trust is broken.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, it is crucial to clarify that it takes two and not just one, but two to restore a marriage.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: You might know of a situation or be in a position yourself where only one partner is willing to repair and heal.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Second, God loves marriage because he intended for it to represent the relationship between Christ and the church, and between Christ and us as individuals and our relationship with him.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't believe that God places the institution of marriage above your personal relationship with him.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: God loves you before you are married, and he loves you if your marriage ends, even if your spouse didn't take the path of healing.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Now, third, Cindy's personal story of healing and restoration and all that she writes about could trigger some and is not always the norm.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's incredible how her husband repented and took public steps of healing that he needed to do.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: It is a true testimony of God's restoration.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Fourth, God's restoration can still happen even if a marriage has to end.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: I am personally walking through a situation where God's plan of restoration does not look like my idea or even something that maybe a church would be willing to celebrate.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I can testify to God's goodness and healing journey that is taking place, even though a marriage of loved ones of several decades has come to a close.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, it takes two to go on that healing journey separately and together.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Please prayerfully consider if this episode is something the Lord is leading you to listen to.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know he's going to make it clear.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's a yes, I can't wait for you to listen.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I know the Holy Spirit will guide your thoughts as you hear Cindy share her story.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: When we go through those low, low places, it's not about having the right answers when we're the body of Christ.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's just being present and being available.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the other thing is try not to rush people through their pain because it makes you uncomfortable.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how many times have we seen that?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've been guilty of it in the past.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's been something I've learned whenever I'm with a friend who is hurting or wounded.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just trying not to rush him through it and just letting him know it's just par for the course.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is part of it.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I know you won't be here forever, but right now this is where you are.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just be together.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's hard.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody can do that.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that makes a big difference in people's lives.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: It really does.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: I that's why I've really loved really taking the time to learn about myself and others with the Enneagram, because I am a rusher.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also not I'm someone who avoids pain.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't like to send it.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: But when I finally was able to have language to understand, oh, that's why it's helped me be more compassionate to myself, but then also to give the grace for others to take the time that they need and to know that innately I want to push them, but I have to like pause and bite my tongue and go, right?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: We've just got to sit here a little bit longer.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's really helpful.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, tell me a little bit about your Enneagram journey, what you know about the Enneagram, because you know, this is this is kind of our mantra.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And this whole month we're spending time on relationships, we're focusing in here, be it you have a really uh struggling marriage, or you are just wanting to strengthen your marriage, or maybe it's friendships that you're navigating through.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: So this is why I love the resource of the Enneagram.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's this it's just a tool.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it helps us understand and put a lens of compassion, at least for me for sure.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: So for you, kind of tell me your background and experience with the Enneagram so far.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: So leading up to it, you know, when I first did a personality test, it was back, I think it was 2002 and it was Myers Briggs.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like that, that has been the world that I've been in.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then when the Enneagram kind of became popular and more well known, and definitely I would say with the younger people, but I'm 51 and I'm a grandmother, and I all these people around me, uh all my coworkers are in their like upper 20s and lower thirty, younger 30s, and I'm just like, okay, what did the young people say here?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but I totally date myself.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: But um much like Myers Briggs, you know, learning about how to people kind of operate, what are some of the tendencies or preferences?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: But then the integraling was also great because it's just another tool to help me learn how to communicate with people, help me to learn how to manage my expectations with people.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because one of my best friends always says the key to happiness is expectation management.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think she's wrong.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think that if we all um learned a little bit about that, so I can't even really remember how I even started, like when the Enneagram kind of entered my life.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just remember one time I I did, I don't, I think I took a test or and I read the book, The Road Back to You.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the right word?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: The right wording.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's back to you.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or I listen, I listened to the book.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so just kind of learning about things.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And even I think but I think I listened to the book before I tested, and I was like, I think I know what I am.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know what I am.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Took the test.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: I am.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: I am a two as the day is long.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: I am two all the way to the core.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I joke with my friends.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I still want to be a seven.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to be seven.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to be a two.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I hear you.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm um, it's been really good to know, um, to just kind of help me guide and then learning what my kids are and close friends.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of funny because I have two friends who are sixes.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like really close friends.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it is so funny to talk with them, like when they when something's wrong, you know, when the sky is falling and all the things.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's kind of funny.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I it's isn't it so great?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I I mean, I love it as a coaching tool, just kind of, you know, how I said so I can put like their lens on, but with my friends, it's just it's so fun to sit with them and have conversation and just to be like, oh, I know why they're coming at it from this perspective or why they're saying what they're what what they're saying.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just it makes me love them all the more because then I'm not thinking of like, well, why do they think that?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's not how I think.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: I go, oh, that's why they think that.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: And why it's so different than me.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we need our we need the twos in the world.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know for sure the twos who are are looking when it's coming from a healthy place to help people.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it can be so powerful when partnered with the Holy Spirit.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm excited to dive in here.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: You really have a resource that that's gonna help a lot of people.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually a resource that is been like revisited.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Has it been like added on to or just basically a re-release?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it is a re-release, but we did add new content.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: So okay, the book um, so healing your marriage with trust is broken, released in 2011.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's 10 years that it first released.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe I know.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote another book in 2016 called Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then my publisher was like, Hey, what's next?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think your next book is?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I don't know.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just kept thinking, uh, I don't know what's next.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So then I guess it was about two years ago, I had this idea.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, what if we do something to, you know, add a little bit of something to my first book, maybe freshen up the cover for the 10-year anniversary, because my first book is still selling really well.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that's a little bit of that's good news and bad news, you know.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: The good news is it's available, the bad news is that people need it.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, yes, but so what we did is the book is still the same, the chapters are the same, but at the end of every chapter, I added little uh sections that says 20 years later, because the book, the book is 10 years old, but our story is 20 years old.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I did that, and then I added one final chapter at the end, um, just just to you know have one other chapter.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's the difference um in the book.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: So and the heart behind that is I think people think, oh well, how are they?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Are they you know, are they still together?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not not even just me, but maybe other couples are thinking, I wonder how they're progressing.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when you go through some kind of marriage devastation or trauma we have, I think, I think sometimes we view the rest of our marriage just around like with that lens.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And my an example is, you know, a couple might reach out to me and go, hey, we're doing great, but and I can't believe he did this.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's been years, and I'm sure it's because he cheated on me.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, all those years ago, I'm like, actually, I think that happened just because you're married, you're still two people who are married, you know.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Two human beings trying to do life together.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so just trying to help people understand that just because something like this was in my marriage past, and all my, I guess if you want to, if you have a marriage resume, this is something that's on my resume.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: If just because it was there in my past doesn't mean it's affecting every part of my future.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so just kind of helping people process that, you know.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that's just kind of the heart behind it, the helper in me, I guess.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I really appreciated when I read it, even though praise God, I couldn't fit my personal marriage into that.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: I could fit so many others as stories that we were walking alongside.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it it gave me this glimpse of healing is possible, restoration is possible, redemption.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then you touch on something here.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just that moment, but it's the ongoing moments after.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's kind of like somebody asked me earlier, like, how do you how did you live out that redemption?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how did you live out the healing?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that one of the things that's interesting is we we think, oh, let's just look forward, let's push forward, let's not think about the past.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: But honestly, looking back and kind of seeing where you've come from and gauging the growth, it propels you forward toward more redemption and healing.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's something that I really encourage people because I don't know about you, but sometimes whether whatever it is we're trying to accomplish, whether it's you know, eating better or exercising more, we're like, oh, we're not making any progress.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, you probably are making progress.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Just glance back and go, oh, yeah, there's more distance between where I was and where I am.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: So okay, we're making progress.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was really helpful.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: That has been very helpful on our journey.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: But like I said, we're 20 years into this story.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so the only time this really is a part of our lives anymore is when we're helping people.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been that way for a pretty long time.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's remarkable.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, on that note, give us a scoop.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And in in fact, what I think is very interesting is this this question is very applicable here because I tend to talk about what was the brokenhearted moment that led you to the wholehearted decision to start the ministry, to write the book, to record the album, whatever it is that launched us.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: It is often that broken-hearted moment.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: So for you, this is there is definitely a broken-hearted moment that launched this decision to engage in this ministry for marriage.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I said, you know, we're 20 years into our journey.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was, I remember February the 19th, 2002.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we had just moved to Oklahoma to be a part of Life Church.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And he comes in the door and he's like, We literally have been here six weeks.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Hey, I need we need to talk.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when he just, you know, dumped everything.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And my world just crashed.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: And his world obviously crashed too, but he was the cause, you know.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, just devastation, marital debris everywhere that you can even imagine.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my first thought was, okay, I'm gonna be a single mom.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have to go live with my mom or something.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm not gonna be able, I'm probably gonna walk away.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: That was, you know, I mean, how do you recover from this?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Was you know, my initial thought.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so within time, you know, I just began to seek God.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, because I had this husband who's sitting here saying, I know you'll never trust me again, but if you'll allow me, I'll spend the rest of my life trying, I'll do whatever it takes.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: And he has done that, like to this day.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: That has he's never wavered on any of that, which is a huge gift.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm very thankful for that.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he said, Oh, he's a remarkable man.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, most people can't believe the man I wrote about is the man who he is now.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: All of that to say, like, we just began, I began to seek God and say, you know, show me.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I remember it was March the third.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like almost three weeks after he confessed.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I just remember I was in a church service down in Texas with one of my best friends.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was visiting her, and I just remember God saying, I know you don't know what's ahead.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: I know you have no idea how I'm gonna use this, but I can and I will, and I need you to trust me.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was a big day for me to go, okay, I trust you.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so out of that, wow, I don't remember exactly when it was, but sometime, a short time later, I just remember him saying, You're gonna write a book.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I'm gonna do what?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh can I get through this first?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Are you sure about that?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so basically, you know, the book was released um about nine and a half years after he confessed.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, almost half about, you know, almost a good solid decade.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And what was really cool about that is it allowed me to go through so many stages of healing and growth and redemption.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I wrote so much.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then by the time it was time to publish, and I found a publisher who was interested, that's when they were like, okay, we're gonna help you weed out what needs to be there, what doesn't.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, I don't really remember when God told me I was gonna write a book.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was just sometime early after that.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it just and it sort of evolved from there, which is uh, you know, I think that's the power.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Just um in January, we spend time talking about what I kind of call whole-hearted pillars or wholehearted rhythms, which is word worship and write.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And writing doesn't necessarily mean writing a book, but it's the rhythm of writing, of writing out your story, of processing it in real time.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: And also sometimes, as I coach my clients, we're processing past events to understand how they're affecting our real time.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I, you know, I think that's just such a powerful testimony of you you chronicled your journey, you chronicled the healing, you chronicled the work of God, whether you I'm sure many times you probably didn't feel like it, but you did it for sure.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And what do you have?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm kind of curious to know, and I have no clue, and I hope this doesn't feel like I'm putting you on the spot, but were there stories when you revisited them that they weren't in a good place, that those couples who had experienced some healing were not really doing as great, that it or it's just been a tougher road compared to others, because I personally am in the middle of I'm not sure if I'm really ready to share it yet, but in the middle of where the redemption isn't happening and um and not how I want it to, not the storybook ending.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I know redemption is still will happen in God's way.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, for those of us who are kind of like, I'm not sure if this is working out or going to.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: So the good news is that all of the couples in the book are still together and doing well, except for one.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: We did obviously need to adjust that one.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and my heart was sad because we we loved that couple and you know, still do.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: We don't, we're not communicating because they're in a they don't live near us.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: But um, there's just sometimes things just don't always work out.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And as I say in the book, you've got to both be willing to do whatever it takes.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if only one of you is willing to fight for the marriage, then it's probably not gonna work, and it's probably not gonna be salvaged.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or you'll just stay married and live as a roommate to someone.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really thankful that um I did get to reach out to, I think I just reached out to a few of the couples to ask for some updates.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was fun to get those updates.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And one of and two of the couples that I wrote about, one of them is our our longtime mentors, and then another couple, Jenny and Brian Clayville.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we are I'm real close with her.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: We've been friends, really close friends for many years.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So um it was fun to get those updates.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've been on a front row seat too um many lives, many of those couples.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some of them are a little farther away, and I don't see them often.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like Brian and Jenny, we lived in the same town for a little bit, and she and I have ministered together for years.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like I have watched her do the hard work because she was the one who was unfaithful to her husband.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been really cool to see her continue to fight for her marriage and to fight for just freedom and redemption in their story.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think you highlight uh something really important there about both being willing to do the work.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that I mean that's really critical.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, just to caveat and speak to the man or the woman, um, and and most of y'all are are women, but I know a few men out there who listen, but if you're in a position where your your spouse isn't willing to work, it doesn't rest on you.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you can do what you can do and partner with God and in restoring.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I think ultimately what I love is how I think when you're in the middle of that, just what is devastation, right?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: You can you can barely see tomorrow, but to have stories that not only show you the hope of tomorrow, but then to think that in 20 years we can be really great.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's powerful.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because the the society we live in, if it's not good right now, you just throw it out because we're instantaneous.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: We, you know, get a little tear or a little scuff or a little hole.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's no repairing, it's just toss it out.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we've gotten that way with marriages and not to celebrate the hard, but to normalize marriage is tough.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you're not the only one who's facing this uh incredible devastation and maybe betrayal.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you and you also don't have to be the only one to survive it.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's other people who have.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have watched many couples not be able to overcome and come back from some kind of betrayal because one was all in and one wasn't.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's hard, um, especially for the one who was really trying and they said, This is out of my control.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, it absolutely is, and I'm really sorry.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, but the great thing about that is I tell people, it's not the great thing about a marriage not being redeemed, but the great thing that God has shown me, I think, is let's work toward getting a healed you.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have to be healed individually before we can think about our marriage.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Being healed.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so Chris and I really did.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: We we did the hard work.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: We did it alone on ourselves, but we did it together and we shared and learned and grew.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And through the process, our marriage just kind of um continued to heal and grow as well.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: So wow, that's awesome.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that's a really valid point of like making sure that you're taking the time because this is really what it comes down to.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the marriage that tripped us up, it's our own unhealth needing to strengthen our spiritual walk and our relationship with the Lord.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And when we um are focusing on that and getting healthy there, then we can see the good fruit in our marriage uh relationship, among many others.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of curious.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: What was one of maybe like a highlight, if you will, kind of give us a sneak peek in the book, a little story that you love being able to share with others, maybe even not just in the book, but when you counsel others?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's a lot I could share, obviously.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think the thing that's um I love the local church.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: My husband and I have been pastoring for all of our 29 years of marriage, and we're on staff at Life Church.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, the American church is not always great at handling things like this.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so my husband, you know, was a worship pastor.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: He confesses, he resigns.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he had kind of had to.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, Craig Groschelle is our pastor and a couple of the leaders, like they came over to our house and they said, We will help you walk through this.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: And Craig actually preached about this from you know, at church the following weekend.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't go into like all the details.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: He shared Chris had a moral failure and Cindy is heartbroken, but they're working on it.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so our leadership just stood by us and walked with us and gave us mentors.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and so when I think about how the church responded to my husband, his sin.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was easy to love me because I was the wounded, right?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but to love someone who had literally chosen to make a mess of his life and they didn't kick us to the curb, they didn't shoot their wounded.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Really blown away by that part of our story.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of the most special things that I love.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then I don't think you mentioned it, but part of Chris's confession was that one of the women he was with was pregnant.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have a son that I did not give birth to, but he's mine.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I love him.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's 19.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, and he's an amazing young man, and that's the best.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, our healed marriage and his life are the best parts of the story.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like wow, I wouldn't ever, I wouldn't go back and take this out of my story because then I wouldn't have him.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: So those are probably my favorite parts of our story.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, pretty big deal.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that's pretty significant, Cindy.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh thank you for sharing because yeah, uh, I think um, again, probably we've really alluded to a lot of aspects of your story.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but anyone who is navigating or walking alongside those who are going through a hard time, this this book would just be really instrumental, a piece of encouragement.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I it's not a textbook, it's not there's because there's no formula, right?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, basically it's it's two people in a position of just complete humility and surrender of going, Lord, we're sinners.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: One of them is, you know, a little bit more obvious and hurtful right now, but we need your help.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that's uh that's really good.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one more thing, just advice or encouragement um that you would want to encourage someone who is walking through a tough time in their marriage and who maybe doesn't even know, like, can can I hope for something good to come from this?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think there's a lot of different scenarios.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: You might have people who are just not connecting.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's betrayed each other, but they're just not connecting.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you have people who there has been significant loss of trust.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so, whatever it is, I would just say there's two words that I always tell couples.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: When you when we choose to be intentional and make investments in our marriage, that's when we'll see our marriages thrive.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: So be intentional with your spouse.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, think about your spouse more than you think of yourself.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Make investments into each other's tank, fill each other's, you know, love tank, speak each other's language, learn how the other feels loved and make some effort there.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's what happens.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we date, we've all heard the way it is.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: We date, it's romantic, it's exciting, and it's so amazing.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then things kind of die down.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say those early moments are great and fun, but the part where the marriage is happening and the growth, like that's the depth.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's the good stuff.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so invest in each other.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Don't just invest when you're dating, don't just be intentional when you're dating, be intentional and make investments just a little bit every day, and you will be amazed at how far your marriage will uh thrive.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: So good, Cindy.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for taking the time to share your story.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm excited for people to get your hands on the bigger and better version of healing your marriage when trust is broken.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like you said, be it small or big, um, we're all going to have those moments.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just great to have some encouragement on that road.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me on here, Amy.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, friends, that was a deep discussion.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I encourage you to take some time to ponder what was said in this conversation with Cindy.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Ask the Lord what parts of her story apply to you and what action steps he'd like you to make in moving forward.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's to share this episode with a friend.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or it's to start praying differently for your marriage because you're struggling.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's even forgiveness for a loved one who hurt you.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: My encouragement is to be open to hear what God has to say to you about this episode and know it will always be for your good.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: When he's in it, it's always for your good.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: As always, friend, if you have a comment, question, or powerful takeaway from this podcast, I would love to hear about it.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: You can find me on all the socials under wholehearted Enneagram.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Until next week, remember the power of the past to ask God about his perspective, purpose, and plans for your life in current situations.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a powerful practice to do daily.