Latest / The Reverse Aging Club with Meredith Oke / 138: The Shocking Truth About Blue Light and Your Sleep with Bon Charge's Katie & Andy Mant

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138: The Shocking Truth About Blue Light and Your Sleep with Bon Charge's Katie & Andy Mant · The Reverse Aging Club with Meredith Oke

6:01
Meredith Oke: Andy and Katie Mandt, welcome to the QVC podcast.
6:06
Katie Mant: Hey, how are you doing?
6:08
Andy Mant: Hey, Meredith, thanks for having us.
6:11
Meredith Oke: My pleasure, Andy. We had a great chat last time
6:14
and I'm super excited to do it again with Katie
6:17
in the house.
6:18
Katie Mant: Yay.
6:18
Meredith Oke: As the two of you founded this company together.
6:23
And Katie, I was actually just listening to you
6:26
on a podcast talking about how you both, the two
6:31
of you started this sort of like out of your
6:33
bedroom while you were both working other jobs
6:36
and you ordered these glasses and you were like,
6:38
oh my gosh, this is so important. People really
6:40
need these. And it just kind of took off.
6:44
Katie Mant: That is so true.
6:45
Meredith Oke: Tell me a bit about, like, that's such a fun
6:47
journey.
6:48
Katie Mant: Yeah. Do you know what? It's actually quite funny
6:50
as well. It was leading up to our wedding, which
6:53
is going on about eight years ago now. Like any
6:56
bride and groom, you're trying to get into the
6:58
best physique for those photos. So we were like
7:00
exercising more, dieting just to sort of get the
7:03
best physiques. And it was Andy that decided to
7:06
look into sleep and how that impacts what you eat
7:09
and your energy levels and how well that you work
7:12
out at the gym. And he went down this rabbit
7:14
warren reading all the different scientific
7:16
studies out there to understand how do you
7:19
improve sleep. And then through that, learned
7:21
that artificial blue light after dark can really
7:24
impact your body's natural ability to produce
7:27
melatonin. So Andy started off by ordering a pair
7:31
of blue light blocking glasses off a well known
7:34
platform. They arrived and oh my gosh, I wish we
7:37
took photos that I could share it with the
7:38
community. Now they were full on safety goggles
7:42
and he'd wear them in the evening watching
7:45
Cavity. I thought he was mad. Honestly, I was
7:48
like, I have a pair like that.
7:49
Meredith Oke: They're like the big square plastic orange.
7:52
Katie Mant: Yeah, it's like orange. Like literally something
7:55
out of laboratory. So he started wearing these
7:57
off work and I was like, you are a freak. What
8:00
are you doing? But his sleep did start to improve
8:03
a little bit. So I was like, okay, there is
8:05
something here. But the, the signs know that Andy
8:08
has kept delving deeper and deeper to understand,
8:10
well, why are they working and why are they not
8:13
profoundly impacting his sleep? They're only
8:15
having a slight impact on it. Learned that
8:18
there's very specific wavelengths that need to be
8:20
blocked. Not just generic blue light, a very
8:23
specific wavelength of blue and some green light,
8:25
and then struggles to find any glasses that
8:28
actually did block that. So long story short, we
8:31
were like, there's an opportunity here. To design
8:34
something that's actually stylish that people
8:36
would want to wear because there's no way I'd go
8:38
out to a restaurant wearing the glasses that he
8:40
was wearing, that correct lens that block the
8:44
right round frequencies to optimize sleep. And so
8:48
the journey sort of evolved from there quite
8:49
quickly, to be honest with you. Once we found out
8:52
how to develop the, the lens and what needed to
8:54
be done, the rest was quite smooth sailing,
8:57
wasn't it really? Reaching out to influencers and
9:00
people that we were networked with to begin with
9:02
to give them a pair to see if they could have,
9:04
have a go and report back. And they all reported
9:07
back how great they were and how much better than
9:09
the original pair that they had. And so we just
9:11
launched the brand and, and ran with it. A little
9:14
bit blind I guess in the beginning. Just thought,
9:16
let's just do it and see. We still had jobs at
9:18
the time, so it was a side hustle. So there was
9:21
no sort of commitment or impact on us. It was
9:24
just a side like passion project that quickly
9:28
grew that allowed us to then leave our day jobs
9:31
and run it full time and over the years now have
9:33
grown it. We've got a team of about 35 staff now.
9:37
So it's been an evil.
9:39
Meredith Oke: That's crazy. Yeah, I think too, I think it's
9:43
good. I always say if I knew now what I knew at
9:47
the beginning of any given project, I'm like, I
9:49
would never have done it. We have to be a little,
9:52
a little blind to what we're getting ourselves
9:54
into.
9:55
Katie Mant: Just go with it, go with your gut.
9:57
Meredith Oke: You just gotta go for it.
9:59
Katie Mant: Yeah, absolutely.
10:02
Meredith Oke: So Andy, if you could just, you know, I know, I
10:07
know everyone listening, I know, you know, but I
10:10
don't think we can, I really don't think that we
10:13
can hear it too many times, please. And you're so
10:16
good at explaining it, Andy. So please tell us
10:19
why. Why do we need to block blue light at night?
10:23
Andy Mant: I know, yeah, it's, it's that double edged sword,
10:26
blue light. It's such a fantastic thing when used
10:29
correctly and such a bad thing when used
10:31
incorrectly. So I always like to go back to how
10:35
we were ancestrally. Okay, so hundreds of
10:37
thousands of years ago we evolved as you know,
10:41
through our life cycle to human beings that we
10:43
are now. But one thing that evolved all those
10:45
hundreds of thousands of years ago was something
10:47
called a body clock, a circadian rhythm. And it's
10:50
a little tiny clock system that's in the middle
10:52
of our brain. And what it does Is it uses light
10:56
to tell your body, your internal mechanisms, what
10:59
time of the day it is. And why that's so
11:02
important is it allows for certain hormones,
11:04
hormones and neurotransmitters to either be
11:06
released or suppressed. So as we lived
11:11
ancestrally, we live mainly outside, right? So we
11:14
would get up in the morning hundreds of thousands
11:16
of years ago with the rising sun. And what that
11:18
would do is that would tell our body clock, our
11:21
circadian rhythm, that it was daytime. And it
11:24
knew this because the blue light would stimulate
11:27
dopamine, serotonin and cortisol, which are all
11:30
really important for us to be active during the
11:33
day. We needed to be active during the day
11:34
because we needed to go out to hunt, to gather,
11:36
and to do what, what we used to do back in those
11:39
days. Now, as we were outside all day, the
11:42
sunlight actually changes in its spectrum gently
11:45
throughout the day and into the, into the
11:47
evening. And all those little subtle changes in
11:50
light was telling our circadian rhythm what time
11:54
of day it was. And to dial things down, dial
11:56
hormones up, and just keep us really in hormonal
12:00
bliss. And then as the sun set in the evenings,
12:03
that would then signal to our clock system that,
12:06
okay, blue lights going now, so the evening must
12:09
be coming. We need to lower cortisol and we need
12:12
to increase the hormone melatonin, which is our
12:14
sleep hormone. And then we put the campfire on.
12:17
You know, we'd probably sit around there talking
12:20
or eating those types of things. And that would
12:23
be in the presence of orange and red light, which
12:27
has been shown in studies to help increase
12:30
melatonin production, which is great. Then we
12:32
would go to sleep and we wake up the next morning
12:34
and that cycle would continue until we died of
12:37
old age or eaten by a saber toothed tiger,
12:39
whatever it might have been. But what we've done
12:42
now is as we've evolved light, like, you know,
12:46
when you go into like say the 1700s and the
12:48
1800s, we still would have had that kind of
12:51
rhythm and that kind of natural light cues. We
12:54
didn't really have artificial light in those
12:56
eras. We would have had, you know, moved around
12:59
the house with a lantern that was like a candle.
13:01
We'd have had candlelight, firelight, things like
13:03
that still exist. But it wasn't until recently
13:07
that the, the governments and the companies,
13:10
they, they invented something called LED lights.
13:12
And what they did with these lights is they
13:15
stripped out all the red light, most of the
13:19
orange light, and they left in the blue light and
13:21
some of the green light. And these were put into
13:24
our house lights at the time. And what this did
13:27
was every, every time the sun would set and we'd
13:30
go in and we'd watch telly, which is where LEDs
13:32
are, or we turn on our house lights or, or in the
13:36
last 20 years, scroll for our smartphone that
13:40
still sends light signals to our ancient
13:42
circadian rhythm, our ancient body clock. So this
13:46
body clock can't distinguish between artificial
13:48
and natural light. So what it's doing is these
13:50
little artificial suns that are all scattered
13:52
around our house or our workplace after sunset is
13:56
still telling our body clock that it's evening
13:59
time, that it's sorry, that it's daytime, and to
14:02
keep cortisol level high and to not have high
14:05
levels of melatonin, the sleep hormone. So our
14:07
bodies are now believing that we're in perpetual
14:10
daylight, there is no darkness anymore because
14:13
the light signals aren't stopping after sunset,
14:15
which they used to do. So we have to think
14:19
ancestrally and go back to how our ancestors used
14:21
to live to be able to mimic what they saw, which
14:26
is darkness after sunset. So we do that by
14:29
wearing the glasses you're wearing now, by
14:32
changing some of the lighting in our house, by
14:34
powering down electronic devices one to two hours
14:37
before bed so our circadian rhythms can actually
14:40
understand what time of day it is and to produce
14:43
the correct hormones to allow us to sleep better.
14:47
Meredith Oke: Right. It makes so much sense when you say it and
14:53
yet we don't think about it. I mean, the three of
14:59
us do and people listening do, but up and you
15:02
know, up until we stumbled on this information,
15:05
it just doesn't see, it just doesn't occur to
15:08
people. And when, you know, I think anyone who's
15:12
interested in their health, they understand,
15:13
like, okay, if I eat like ultra processed high
15:16
sugar foods, that's going to be really difficult
15:19
for my body because that's not food found in
15:21
nature. I should eat real food. Everyone's like,
15:24
oh yeah, totally, that makes sense. But we don't
15:26
take that next step and then apply it to all of
15:29
the other things that our body is communicating
15:32
with.
15:33
Andy Mant: Yeah, it's so true. It's that whole thing of what
15:36
you don't know, you don't know. And there's
15:37
probably tons of other things that as humans we
15:40
don't know are impacting us from a, you know, a
15:44
really negative standpoint. I mean, it's only
15:46
until recently that we weren't even thinking
15:48
about EMF radiation, you know, like 5G Wi Fi, 4G
15:55
cellular towers. And it's, that's really allowing
15:58
people to start wake up. Waking up now to, well,
16:02
blue light is actually on the EMF spectrum, EMF
16:05
radiation, like what I've just discussed there is
16:08
on that spectrum. And it's all impacting and
16:10
interacting with our cells in a way that the
16:14
human body has never had before. Like, we've
16:16
evolved for millions of years and the systems
16:20
that have evolved within us biologically have
16:24
been around for that length of time as well. They
16:26
haven't just suddenly evolved in the last 30
16:28
years, they've been around for millions of years
16:30
in us. And now we're almost creating an
16:34
environment where they've evolved that isn't
16:37
conducive to how they would function optimally.
16:39
You know, it's like, you know, it's like building
16:42
a car to ride on tarmac roads and then taking it
16:47
down a mountain. It's just not going to work. The
16:50
environment is very different. But what we're
16:52
doing in this day and age is we're bringing out
16:55
these technologies on this electromagnetic
16:58
spectrum that human bodies just aren't used to
17:02
receiving. And we're almost like this experiment
17:05
now of like, well, let's see what happens in the
17:06
next 30 years like we did with smoking. Let's see
17:09
what happens in the next 30 years like we did
17:11
with refined seed oils and low fat diets. And
17:15
it's only because, like LED artificial lighting
17:18
and the advent of smartphones and backlit LED
17:21
devices in the last 20 years that right now we're
17:24
starting to see the detrimental effects not just
17:27
on us as adults, but on our children as well.
17:33
Meredith Oke: Yes. And they're getting their screens younger
17:36
and younger and they're holding them closer and
17:40
closer to their faces. I mean, I remember as a
17:42
child, it's like you were like, you got to be six
17:45
feet away from the tv. We're all like, why? No
17:48
one had an answer. They're like, that's just the
17:50
rule.
17:51
Katie Mant: Yeah, I remember that.
17:52
Meredith Oke: Yeah.
17:53
Andy Mant: Or you go blind, I think it was. Or get square
17:56
eyes.
17:58
Meredith Oke: Square eyes. Maybe that's. That was an Australian
18:02
thing. That's great. That's funny because. Yeah,
18:06
now they, you know, like the. Yeah, they're so,
18:09
Their little faces are so close up to them.
18:12
Something that I love that you guys did is that
18:16
you built, you know, and this was also out of
18:18
necessity, I guess, but you really built the
18:20
company on top of education and on top of
18:26
teaching people about this. So I think it's
18:30
really interesting because you've had such
18:32
amazing growth. You know, even just to stay
18:36
focused on the blue blocking glasses which I'm
18:38
wearing, you know, and it's like people were
18:43
ready for it, but at the same time, like I'm
18:46
still outside of this circle. The only person I
18:48
know who wears these, like when I go out in my
18:52
normal life like and have meetings with, you
18:55
know, I was on a committee at my children's
18:57
school and we did zoom meetings at night through
18:59
the winter and I rock up in these or go to. And
19:02
they were like, what is that? What do you. Why?
19:07
So I'm just curious like how you see that
19:10
education trajectory playing out in the, in the
19:13
public sphere as it's coming out of like the
19:17
little biohacking corner that it's been in. It's
19:20
growing, but there's still so much more room to
19:24
go.
19:24
Katie Mant: Yeah, there is absolutely. There's not enough
19:27
people talking about artificial blue light and
19:29
its impact on sleep. And I think there's a long
19:31
way still to go on that. You're right. It's how
19:34
we started the company. Because when we did come
19:36
out with the blue light blocking glasses that we
19:39
designed and launched, we, we had a massive
19:41
education piece to let people know that first of
19:44
all, blue light blocking glasses exist. They're a
19:46
thing. We had to let them know that artificial
19:48
blue light is bad after dark and it is impacting
19:50
your sleep. And then thirdly, had to educate them
19:53
on the actual wavelengths that they needed to
19:55
block. So it wasn't just a case of they could buy
19:58
any blue light blocking glasses. They needed
20:00
specific tints, specific lenses that would block
20:03
it. So that was kind of how our journey began.
20:06
Anyway, it was always education first because it
20:09
was such a young industry. And I even think it is
20:12
now, years on, more people are understanding how
20:15
it impacts sleep. But there is also that
20:17
reluctance for people to let go of technology. So
20:21
they don't want to sometimes believe that it's
20:24
impacting them. I do find that a little bit
20:26
because it's how we connect with everybody now,
20:28
right? The world is so digitalized, they don't
20:31
want to give up their smartphones, their laptops,
20:33
their tv. And there is still an element of
20:36
ignorance to the fact that it is impacting their
20:38
well being and their sleep. Then you have the
20:40
others that are ready to listen and ready to
20:42
understand and adopt principles like circadian
20:45
friendly lighting and artificial or blue light
20:49
blocking glasses to block artificial light after
20:51
dark. And then the others I think is going to
20:54
need more education and more and more touch
20:55
points. It's the classic principle, isn't it,
20:58
with marketing that they say you need at least 12
21:00
different touch points before someone can
21:02
understand something and absorb it. So there is
21:05
still the journey to be had. And also we're
21:09
battling against big tech brands. They don't want
21:11
people to sleep. You know, there's that famous
21:14
quote that supposedly, I don't know if it's true
21:16
or not, that came out from Netflix, where their
21:18
mission was to stop people going to sleep. And
21:20
that's why it's got that binge culture where they
21:22
want you to stay up and keep, basically keep
21:25
absorbing. Because the longer you're awake and
21:27
the more that you're on technology, the more
21:29
you're able to be marketed to and absorbed enough
21:32
for you to absorb more information from whatever
21:35
message is being pushed on whatever platform. So
21:37
there is a bigger piece at play here, really?
21:40
From, from my standpoint.
21:42
Andy Mant: Yeah, I think, I think on top of that as well, it
21:45
was Netflix that said that sleep's their biggest
21:47
competitor.
21:49
Meredith Oke: Oh, my God, Netflix.
21:52
Andy Mant: I know. So that's not great from that standpoint.
21:55
But, you know, the thing is, to be able to reach
21:58
people, there's got to be a level of them wanting
22:02
to help themselves. Right. It's like fitness.
22:04
It's like healthy diets. These people aren't
22:06
going to be told by you, me, Katie and anyone
22:11
else that they need to wear blue light blocking
22:13
glasses after sunset or they're going to have,
22:16
you know, metabolic issues when they're older.
22:19
Because one, they look at it and go, well, I feel
22:23
like I'm sleeping. Okay. Two, you know, why would
22:26
I want to wear those silly glasses and not watch
22:28
all the colors on my favorite TV shows? And
22:32
they'd look at it and go, well, this is just
22:33
nonsense. The mainstream aren't talking about it,
22:35
so it's woo. But those are the things that sort
22:38
of come up with the masses. And you've got to,
22:41
you've got to want to change. And we've learned
22:44
over the years that, you know, we can educate and
22:46
we can put information out there that explains
22:48
the science, the evidence behind how these
22:50
devices will help you from a longevity and
22:53
wellbeing standpoint. But if you're not ready to
22:55
listen to that, then, you know, you're really
22:59
knocking your head against the brick wall, as
23:01
they, as they would say. I think one of the
23:04
pivotal moments of education moving forward is
23:07
probably aligning the brand with trustworthy
23:13
sources that are, I guess, in the mainstream
23:18
culture at the moment. So, like celebrities, for
23:20
instance, trying to get them on board and talking
23:23
about these issues because a lot of people that
23:26
perhaps aren't ready to be helped will look up to
23:28
what these idols are saying and be able to at
23:33
least start the conversation. Like the big one
23:34
is. There's a big guy in the uk, Simon Cowell.
23:39
People in the US know him, but he does all the,
23:41
like, oh yeah.
23:43
Meredith Oke: He, he judges all the talent shows.
23:45
Andy Mant: Yeah, the talent show, like American Idol, that
23:48
type of thing. But in the uk and he's now started
23:50
to wear red lens, blue light blocking glasses on
23:54
the shows because the lights are giving him
23:56
migraine headaches and disrupting his sleep. But
23:59
when he wore them, there was no publicity. He
24:01
came out to do that because he had any kind of
24:04
involvement in the company, but because he was
24:05
wearing them, the press, the media started
24:08
picking up articles on it. Well, why is he
24:10
wearing these glasses? And it starts the
24:12
conversation. And I think those are important
24:14
moments moving forward. If we want to allow
24:17
everyone to understand what the, I guess,
24:21
biological impact is on artificial light, on our
24:24
health and well being, these people at the top
24:26
need to start the conversations and then have
24:28
brands around them and educational hubs around
24:31
them that then continue that conversation, allow
24:34
it to make sense to people.
24:37
Meredith Oke: Yeah, that really makes sense. And I think that's
24:40
true. I've been thinking a lot about how to what
24:44
are the ingredients that we need to shift a
24:48
paradigm? Because I think right now people are
24:51
like, oh, all right, maybe I'll blue light,
24:54
whatever. And they see it as a health tip, cold
25:00
plunging or something. And it's, it's really to
25:03
me much so much more fundamental than that. It's
25:06
like if you get into why light matters so much
25:09
and what, how our bodies really work it, it's a
25:13
completely different way of looking at human
25:16
health. And then once you look at human health
25:18
differently, you look at the whole universe
25:21
differently. So my like, big passion project is
25:26
like, okay, so what are the elements required to
25:32
make it a paradigm shift and not just a tactic?
25:36
And I think the science obviously is an important
25:40
piece. Like you need the scientific research,
25:43
even though this is ancient, as you were saying,
25:46
just how our bodies have worked since the dawn of
25:48
time. But what I think is missing is the
25:53
storytelling. I was listening to that podcast,
25:56
the Telepathy Tapes. I don't know if that got
25:59
popular in Australia, but it was. It's about how
26:04
the many non verbal autistic children communicate
26:08
with each other telepathically. And where am I
26:12
going with this? Where I'm going with this is
26:14
that there was a scientist who'd been studying
26:16
that for years and years and nobody would really
26:18
pay much attention to her. And this podcast, this
26:22
documentary producer came along and Turned her,
26:25
turned her work into a podcast and turned it into
26:28
a story. And it one week on the podcast charts at
26:33
Beat Joe Rogan, like it was downloaded like a
26:35
bajillion times. And I was like, oh, we need the
26:40
science needs storytellers. And I think like Andy
26:45
and Katie, I think that's what you are. And then
26:47
as you were saying, like the more, the more and
26:50
the more famous ones we can get, great. But it's
26:52
that it's telling the story in a way because then
26:57
people can absorb it into their lives. Whereas
27:00
just throwing studies at them doesn't land the
27:04
same way.
27:05
Andy Mant: Yeah, 100% right. You got to be able to talk
27:08
about, you need to be able to, you know, from our
27:12
point of view, understand the studies, read them
27:14
and then translate them into actionable sort of
27:21
items that people can then incorporate into their
27:24
day to day life. Rather than sort of saying, you
27:27
know, this study showed that, you know, the
27:29
statistical significance in this, that and the
27:30
other was whatever, like no one cares. Like,
27:33
let's be honest, it's, it's more, it's more like
27:35
saying, you know, there's a specific banding of
27:37
light, it's found in your laptops and your house
27:40
phones. It's going to disrupt your sleep. You've
27:42
got two options. Go and live in the middle of the
27:44
field and throw away your devices or wear red
27:46
lens blue light blocking glasses two to three
27:48
hours before bed before you start using them. And
27:51
I think it's sort of, when you were talking
27:53
there, another thing that sort of came to mind is
27:56
a lot of the audience that are into this type of
27:58
thing, whether it be blue light blocking glasses,
28:02
whether it be red light therapy, whether it be
28:04
cold plungers, whatever the holistic protocol may
28:08
be is they're already sick, right? They've been
28:11
sick, they've had health issues themselves and
28:14
they know what it feels like to number one, be
28:18
failed by the institution, big pharma, whatever
28:22
it may be. But they also understand what it
28:24
feels, feels like to not be healthy. And they,
28:28
they use those two things in combination, those
28:31
two failures to then look at alternatives within,
28:35
you know, holistic medicine, well being, maybe
28:39
ancestral practices to really, really get their
28:43
health back on track as almost a last resort.
28:45
Sometimes they've tried everything else,
28:46
everything else has failed. And then when they
28:48
start doing these basic easy to incorporate
28:53
holistic measures like grounding outside,
28:55
barefoot, watching the sun rise, wearing blue
28:57
light blockers before bed, maybe having a cold
29:00
plunge if they've got arthritis, things like
29:02
that, maybe they're doing red light Therapy,
29:05
really easy protocols. They soon realize that
29:08
being healthy isn't very complicated at all. And
29:13
it's actually quite easy to do if you're prepared
29:18
to change your life very dramatically from what
29:20
you've been told and how to be told to live your
29:23
life. And living your life closer to as close as
29:26
you can to nature and as close as you can to how
29:28
we lived ancestrally has profound effects on
29:32
one's well being and getting healthy and, or, you
29:35
know, even maintaining health. But the big thing
29:38
for, for us is we want to be able to reach people
29:41
before they get sick. You know, it's great to
29:45
help people recover and great to help people
29:47
live, you know, a more fulfilling, healthy life
29:52
by these, you know, ancient protocols. But how do
29:56
we reach the people that are healthy already or
29:59
the ones that are starting to go down the
30:03
slippery slope of you're not going to be well in
30:05
10 to 20 years time because you're eating refined
30:08
seed oils, you're not exercising, you're not
30:10
lifting weights, you're eating a very refined
30:14
processed diet, you're not blocking blue light
30:16
after dark, you're not outside enough. How do you
30:19
then tell those people that, well, in 20 you
30:22
might feel great now, but in 10 to 15, 20 years
30:24
you're going to feel like the other people that
30:27
are with us now that are healing from, you know,
30:31
lifelong issues caused by, you know, eating badly
30:37
or not managing that blue light. I guess what I'm
30:39
saying is here that the people that are well now,
30:41
it's like eating a, eating McDonald's every day
30:45
when you're 16 until you're 20, you're not going
30:48
to notice really much difference at all. You'll
30:51
be all right. You'll probably be a bit
30:52
overweight, but maybe you exercise a bit as well.
30:54
But if you continue to eat like that for 20
30:56
years, you're going to have major metabolic
30:58
syndrome and major metabolic issues. And the same
31:01
is true with light. You know, people go, well,
31:04
I'm falling asleep. Fine. Okay, great. Well,
31:06
how's the quality of this sleep? Are you tracking
31:08
it on a whoop or an aura or another tracking
31:11
device? No. How do you know if your REM and deep
31:12
sleep are good? Because it doesn't matter if
31:14
you're sleeping well, falling asleep fast, if
31:16
you're not getting the restorative deep and REM
31:19
sleep that your body needs to recover and clear
31:21
out the dead and dying damaged cells over time,
31:24
that's going to have a compounding impact on your
31:28
health and well being.
31:32
Meredith Oke: Yeah, it's so true. And and it's like I. So often
31:38
I hear people and they're like, oh, okay, all
31:40
right, I'm gonna get healthy. And they're like,
31:42
I'll just. And they're like, and they're. I. And
31:44
what they think that means, it never includes
31:48
light and it often includes taking supplements
31:50
and eating vegan.
31:52
Katie Mant: Okay, we see that too much. I know, I think
31:55
that's, that's the default setting for getting
31:57
healthy, isn't it? Or they go the other route and
31:59
they take on too much. They try to take on all
32:02
these different practices, do an ice bath every
32:05
morning, go for, you know, 20 kilometer runs. And
32:08
they take on so much that they actually can't do
32:11
it day to day. It becomes, it becomes too much,
32:14
it's not sustainable. And then they give up and
32:16
they go, nah, being well, it's too hard or
32:19
looking after my well being, it takes too much
32:21
out of my time. I'm not feeling that I am unwell
32:24
right now, so I'll just carry on as I am. And
32:26
that's the message that we're trying to put out
32:28
there as well. It's not complicated. It's just a
32:30
few, few simple tweaks, A lot of them free as
32:34
well. You don't have to invest in these big
32:36
expensive products. Some of them are just getting
32:38
out into the sun in the morning or changing a
32:41
bulb, switching one bulb out and putting it
32:43
circadian friendly bulb in the lamp that you're
32:45
sitting in the evening. They're simple things,
32:47
but they really do change their well being.
32:51
Meredith Oke: Yes. And I love, I try to hammer that message all
32:54
the time. Like it doesn't have to be complicated.
32:57
And small little things, especially when it comes
33:00
to light, make a huge difference. Like just
33:03
throwing on those glasses, going outside in the
33:07
morning. Like, yeah, it doesn't need to be a
33:09
major life overhaul. It makes such a difference.
33:12
And I have, you know, over the, over the years,
33:16
like I have yet to meet anybody who, who started
33:20
wearing blue blockers and didn't notice a
33:23
difference. Like I have friends who are like,
33:26
who, you know, they're like, they're like, oh
33:29
right, I guess, like should, I really should get
33:32
them. I'm like, yeah, you really should. And then
33:35
they like the next day they're like, oh my God, I
33:38
slept so much better like that night.
33:43
Andy Mant: That's the thing. It's crazy. And it's like, it's
33:45
like this, like this whole biohacking, this whole
33:47
sort of quantum science when people want to try
33:51
and holistically get healthy. Right. It's Very
33:55
much a spectrum. You could be at the beginning of
33:57
it, you could be at the end of it and be the
33:58
ultra biohacker like Brian Johnson, Dave Asprey,
34:02
people like that. But it's fine for an individual
34:05
to be anywhere along there on their journey. And
34:09
the big thing is where I would start off is I
34:12
would look at it from a point of view of what
34:16
would I like to improve in my life? And that's
34:18
what we did. That's how we founded the company.
34:20
We looked at our sleep and said, how do we
34:21
improve this? And what can I do that isn't
34:25
conventional to improve my sleep? Okay, so maybe
34:29
someone says, my sleep's not great. Okay, well,
34:31
wear blue light blocking glasses two to three
34:33
hours before bed and watch the sun rise and your
34:36
sleep will improve. Someone could say, I've had
34:38
arthritis for years. What could I do that isn't
34:42
conventional? To help? Maybe I'm going to have an
34:45
ice bath once a day. I'm going to get in there
34:49
and have an ice bath and feel amazing. Maybe I'm
34:51
going to try red light therapy to help with, with
34:54
it. Maybe someone suffers from migraine
34:57
headaches, so they change the flickering LED
35:00
light bulbs in some of their house lights and
35:02
wear light sensitivity glasses when they're
35:05
working on a computer. You know, it's kind of
35:08
looking at your, looking at your current life and
35:11
going, am I optimal? And the answer is always
35:13
going to be no. Right? No one's going to get to
35:15
that 100%. It's just impossible in the world we
35:18
live in. But where would you put yourself out of
35:20
10? You know, how do you feel in the mornings?
35:22
How do you feel during the day? Are, are you
35:24
crashing at 3:00pm? You know, are you struggling
35:27
to get to sleep? Little things like that. Pick
35:30
one that's a nuance in your life and go, how can
35:33
I holistically do something to make myself feel
35:36
better? And just try it, because you're not going
35:38
to lose either way. It's not as though you're
35:40
taking a medication, a pill that may have some
35:44
profound and unwanted side effects. You're only
35:48
going to try these things and go, oh, you know
35:51
what, that worked for me. Or you know what? Cold
35:54
plungers aren't for me. I, I literally, my body
35:56
cannot get into an ice bath or something like
35:58
that. So maybe I'll look at red light therapy
35:59
instead for my joints. So it's kind of looking at
36:02
it like that. And I think a lot of people like
36:04
what Katie was alluding to in alternative health
36:08
Biohacking well, being quantum science, I think
36:10
they bite off more than they can chew too
36:12
quickly. They go full. I don't do anything to
36:15
full Dave Asprey in like a day. And it's just
36:20
because you've got to have 150 supplements and
36:22
you know, 400 hours of red light therapy a day,
36:25
which just isn't practical. But there's so many
36:27
cool things people can do just to like make those
36:29
little incremental 1% improvements and it will
36:33
compound over time. It's like investing money.
36:34
Right. If you do 1% more every week, you know,
36:39
in, in two years you're going to be up at the
36:41
Dave Aspirate sort of level. Or you may go in two
36:44
years. You know what? I'm fine at 20% because I
36:46
feel great. And that's all the time in my life
36:48
that allows for it. Because, you know, rather
36:51
than biohacking 24 hours a day and sleeping, I
36:53
wouldn't mind playing with the kids or the
36:55
grandkids or you know, going out for a dinner
36:58
with friends and stuff like that, which is all
37:01
fine to do. Have that odd glass of wine if that's
37:03
what some something you want to do. Life is still
37:05
there to be lived and biohacking just needs to be
37:08
incorporated into it to just optimize that time
37:10
you've got on this planet. So we're aging well.
37:15
We're not, you know, adding 10 years of, you
37:17
know, I'm going to be sat in a nursing home for
37:19
an extra 10 years. Brilliant. That was kind of
37:21
not worth the extra 10 years I did biohacking.
37:24
You're not, you're going to be living the way
37:25
we're living now, into old age and living well
37:28
and being mobile. And that's what biohacking does
37:31
for you.
37:33
Meredith Oke: Yes. And it's, it's, yeah, it's, I think that
37:38
term reverse aging has come up right where it's
37:41
like the, the chronology rolls on. You know,
37:45
we're not going to not get older. But yeah, our
37:49
bodies don't have to decay in the, in the way
37:52
that we thought they did and we don't have to be
37:55
these crazy biohackers in order to support the
37:59
process. There's so many things to do and it's,
38:02
I've been seeing lately, you know, I think, I
38:06
mean, I think everyone should do whatever they
38:08
want. I don't care. But, but these gurus who do
38:11
all the things right, they, people get turned off
38:13
and they're like, I'm not doing that, like all
38:15
this health stuff is nuts. And I saw, I saw a
38:18
post recently from a young woman, I think she
38:21
works like in Silicon Valley or something. And
38:24
she was like, all right, listen, I talked to one
38:30
of those health people and I guess they're not
38:31
all crazy because I've been like turning off my
38:34
TV and going for more walks. And I don't know,
38:36
she had a few things that she did which are all
38:38
really good. Basically she's like, and you know
38:41
what? I actually feel a lot better. She was sort
38:46
of like begrudgingly acknowledging that the
38:49
health freaks maybe have a point on something.
38:52
But that's what I loved is that you don't, you
38:54
know, you don't have to be crazy. My friend Kelly
38:58
Ritter did a post recently. She called it like
39:01
barefoot and bougie. And she was like, you don't
39:04
have to be like an outdoorsman or like an
39:07
outdoorsy person, like living off the land to
39:10
benefit from, from this. Like, just take your
39:12
shoes off sometimes and still like have whatever
39:15
kind of life you want.
39:18
Andy Mant: Yeah, that's super important, you know, and
39:20
that's, that makes it relatable, makes it easier
39:22
for people to comprehend that, you know, you
39:25
don't have to be a mad scientist and you know,
39:27
obsessive to be able to get healthy. And you
39:30
know, that's, that's super important. And you
39:33
know, I think another topic that's, that's well
39:35
worth sort of covering as well is a little bit
39:38
about red light therapy as well. We're starting
39:40
to see, you know, light can be used for so many
39:45
different things. Like, like blue lights, great
39:47
to keep you alert. Blocking it helps you sleep.
39:49
Green light shown in studies to help with
39:51
migraines and the symptoms of migraines it seems,
39:54
which is, which is fascinating. But red light has
39:57
been been shown and the most studied frequency of
40:00
light to have a profound effect on all sorts of
40:04
different situations like you know, from skin
40:08
appearance to joint and muscle pain to weight
40:12
loss to sort of skin conditions like eczema,
40:15
psoriasis, sleep. You know, it's, it's, it's
40:18
absolutely fascinating. And one of our top
40:23
selling products in, in red light therapy and our
40:25
most top selling product is our red light face
40:27
mask. So interesting, like it's utilizing visible
40:31
red light at 630 nanometers, the most studied for
40:35
reducing the signs of aging and near infrared
40:38
light as well. And that's been incredible for
40:44
tens of thousands of people in terms of how they
40:47
look physically. Yes, that might not be a health
40:50
benefit, but it's a mental health benefit on
40:53
aging. You Know, the face sure is. You know what
40:57
I mean?
40:58
Meredith Oke: Yeah.
40:59
Andy Mant: Katie's a great. She uses the red light face mask
41:02
like three to four times a week. So maybe you
41:04
could talk to the effects that you've seen.
41:07
Meredith Oke: Yeah, and I wanted to bring that up because we
41:09
actually haven't really covered. I'm always
41:12
wanting people to sleep better and feel better.
41:14
And I was like, you know, we actually haven't
41:16
talked about how all this makes you look better.
41:20
And I'm not gonna pretend that doesn't matter to
41:23
all of us. So. Yeah, Katie, tell us, you know,
41:26
tell us how like, like red light can make my.
41:31
Make me look younger.
41:32
Katie Mant: Yeah. Really, there's no shame in saying how we
41:39
look matters to us. It does. Like Andy said, it's
41:43
your mental well being. You know, when you wake
41:44
up in the morning and you look in the mirror, do
41:46
you see the person that you feel? And if you
41:49
don't, there's a disconnect. And that does play a
41:51
role on a lot of people's well being. And it's
41:54
been something I've had to challenge as I left
41:57
late 30s and moved into 40 the other month. It's
42:01
a big transition and you feel a lot younger
42:03
inside than how you look. But equally don't want
42:06
to go down the route of doing other procedures
42:09
that maybe aren't very holistic or, you know, I
42:13
want to sort of stay with within modalities that
42:15
are going to be okay for my well being long term
42:17
as well. And red light therapy has been fantastic
42:20
for that because like Andy said, there's two
42:23
frequencies, the near infrared and the red. The
42:26
red light, that's the color that you see, that
42:28
has all of your surface level concerns. So any
42:31
fine lines, wrinkles, sort of any imperfections,
42:34
any discoloration, your skin tone and texture,
42:39
it's great for that overall surface level
42:41
appearance. But what near infrared does, and this
42:43
is the big one, that really helps with the anti
42:46
aging properties. Near infrared goes right
42:48
through to your muscles and through down to your
42:50
joints. And it is so, so good at relaxing the
42:54
muscles. So if you think about relax a muscle,
42:59
what that does to the skin, it then relaxes the
43:02
skin, which then smooths it out, which is then
43:04
reducing the appearance of fine lines and
43:07
wrinkles further. So just by relaxing the muscle
43:10
itself, it can have an effect visually on the
43:13
surface level appearance of your skin. Because
43:15
there's other procedures out there that are all
43:17
tailored around relaxing muscles. We know what
43:21
those are, those injectables. It's the principle
43:23
of just stopping the muscle getting so tight.
43:26
Because when it gets tight it's pulling on the
43:27
skin and creating those creases. But you can do
43:30
that holistically with red light therapy, just
43:32
relaxing it and doing things like gua sha, you
43:34
know, just to sort of keep that muscle relaxed
43:37
and then your skin will follow suit, it won't be
43:40
so crinkled up which will then reduce the
43:43
appearance of fine lines and wrinkles. Again,
43:45
it's a very simple principle, but I think a lot
43:47
of people don't realize that near infrared does
43:49
that and then have to in their eyes resort to
43:53
some maybe injectables and things that possibly
43:56
aren't suitable long term for the, for their well
43:58
being. So Nia and Fred is a great alternative for
44:02
that.
44:04
Meredith Oke: Yes. And it's really like what we were saying
44:07
earlier. I've been thinking about this lately,
44:10
like the difference between reverse aging and
44:12
anti aging. Right. And where you do when you do
44:16
chemicals or you inject things or you do
44:18
surgeries and it's like you're fighting your body
44:23
and it's going to wear off and it's really
44:25
expensive and then you got to go into it again
44:29
and whereas when we utilize light therapy,
44:33
phototherapy, when we harmonize our body and like
44:38
everything you just said, relaxing the muscles
44:40
naturally were the benefits are compounding over
44:45
time. Like our bodies are getting healthier and
44:48
better and we look better but underneath like
44:53
we're not, we're not adding chemicals and trying
44:58
to change ourselves.
45:00
Katie Mant: Exactly that. And it's exactly that not changing
45:02
yourself. You're not wanting to look like a
45:04
different person. If you go and have certain
45:06
procedures done, you might look like a different
45:08
person. It doesn't even look like you when you
45:10
were younger. It is a completely different
45:13
whereas. What?
45:15
Meredith Oke: It's weird.
45:16
Katie Mant: Yeah, right, it is. And a lot of us just want to
45:18
look fresh and like we've slept and you know that
45:21
the effects of time haven't taken its toll on our
45:24
appearance and we just want to look in the mirror
45:26
and see reflected back at us who we feel inside.
45:29
So. And it's actually quite confronting. I've
45:31
heard some, you know, quite sort of challenging
45:34
stories from, from people that have gone under
45:36
procedures and then it's actually had a worse
45:40
effect on their well being because yes, they
45:42
might look younger but they no longer identify
45:44
with a person that's looking back because it's
45:46
completely changed the structure and it doesn't
45:48
look like them anymore. So yes, they might have
45:50
reduced fine lines and wrinkles and you know,
45:53
might look a bit younger. It's not how they
45:55
looked when they were younger. And therefore it's
45:57
still that disconnect. And it's always that
45:59
disconnect. It doesn't feel authentic. And then
46:01
when you don't feel authentic, you don't feel
46:02
true to yourself. And that just impacts so many
46:06
different areas of your life. And there is so
46:08
much you can do holistically now for not just
46:10
your well being but, but beauty as well. You
46:12
know, just, just skincare products themselves,
46:14
just checking the ingredients in them. You know,
46:17
some of those aren't great for, for the body, you
46:19
know, toxins that are in them and the overload
46:22
that's going on on the skin. But you know, I
46:25
question sometimes whether some products actually
46:28
contribute to aging.
46:29
Meredith Oke: I don't know.
46:30
Katie Mant: That's not something I've had proven. But it's
46:32
things that play in the back of your mind. You
46:34
know, it's a bit like the medical industry. You
46:37
know, they, they want you to keep taking
46:39
medication. You know, it'll have a little bit of
46:42
an impact to make you feel better, but you need
46:43
to keep taking it in order for it to, to have
46:46
long term effects.
46:47
Meredith Oke: And yeah, they want us medicated in front of
46:50
Netflix.
46:51
Katie Mant: Yeah. Lathering on skincare products that we
46:55
think are making us look younger, but actually
46:56
it's aging us.
46:58
Meredith Oke: Yeah. And then going to get Botox because we're
47:00
all, we look wrecked.
47:03
Katie Mant: Yeah, absolutely. There is a better way. Yeah,
47:07
there is, there is. And there's freeways just,
47:10
you know, getting out into the morning sun,
47:13
morning sunrise and sunset. That's the best time
47:16
to be out. You know, even if you're not going to
47:18
go and do red light therapy with the panels, at
47:20
least get the beneficial frequencies in the sun
47:23
naturally outside of the peak UV periods for your
47:28
skin. That's great as well. The morning morning
47:31
sun and evening sun.
47:35
Meredith Oke: Yeah. There's so much we can do. And I liked what
47:38
you said too, you know, about the authenticity
47:41
piece. Because what I have found is, you know,
47:45
taking this route that we're talking about where
47:48
we learn to understand how our bodies really work
47:50
and to support that. It makes you feel happier,
47:54
it makes you feel more powerful. It makes you
47:57
feel like, oh, you know what, I belong on this
48:00
planet. I'm not just like spinning out through
48:02
some weird like pre, pre made synthetic reality
48:10
that I'm just gonna hobble through until I get
48:13
sick and die. Like it, I think it, you know, I,
48:18
there's a spiritual element to stepping outside,
48:21
you know, and as you were saying, like wanting to
48:25
understand sunlight and darkness cycles and
48:28
Support our lives, lives that way and wean off
48:33
technology, especially at night. It's like there
48:36
are not a lot of forces that are supportive of
48:38
that. They're working against us. And so but when
48:41
we connect with it, it's like, oh, this is what
48:44
it's supposed to feel like to be alive.
48:49
Katie Mant: It's very true. It's very true. And there's
48:50
nothing wrong with the modern world. There isn't,
48:53
you know, blessed to be in a time where, you
48:56
know, technology and advancements in anything in
48:59
the world are happening at such a rapid rate and
49:01
we're to see that, you know, that's great. We
49:02
shouldn't take away from that. It's just not
49:05
letting it overrun us. Remembering where we have
49:07
come from and the short time that we have been as
49:10
humans on the planet and making sure we blend the
49:13
both and use the little hacks that are available
49:15
to us to live in the modern world while still
49:19
kind of remembering where we've come from and who
49:21
we are at the core. And I think there's, there's
49:24
the opportunity to have both. There really is,
49:26
you know, otherwise we'd be advocating not having
49:29
smartphones, not having TVs, not having laptops
49:31
and disconnecting from everything. We don't
49:33
advocate that. They're fantastic. We're able to
49:36
have this conversation now for the very reason
49:38
this technology here. We're just advocates for
49:40
the glasses that you're wearing to protect you
49:43
whilst you're on the call to us. So there isn't,
49:45
it doesn't need to be a fee mongering thing where
49:47
it's like forget everything in the modern world.
49:49
It's just using it with intent, not being
49:53
consumed by it. You know, picking the moments in
49:56
your day where you are on social media and maybe
49:58
disconnecting the rest of the time and then just
50:00
making sure you're looking after your well being
50:02
whilst you're in the modern, the modern world.
50:04
And it really is as simple as that from my, from
50:07
my standpoint anyway.
50:10
Meredith Oke: Yeah, no, I completely agree. I like the modern
50:12
world. Yeah, I like living on the grid. I have no
50:16
plans to leave. Okay. So I mentioned earlier at
50:24
my, at my family dinner tonight, I told my
50:27
children, I'm like, oh, I'm interviewing the
50:29
founders of Boncharge tonight. So they all, we
50:32
have lots of on charge stuff in our house. So
50:35
they were all, they all knew what that, knew what
50:37
that was. So I made them all come up with a
50:40
question for you. So while we're on the red
50:42
light, I'll start with My older daughter, who she
50:45
just finished her first year at university and at
50:49
Christmas I let her bring the Bon Charge sauna
50:53
blanket back to school with her. And her friends
50:56
were like, what is that? It's weird. And then
50:57
they all wanted to borrow it. But she said she,
51:02
she started going to the gym a lot more than she
51:04
used to and she would come back all shaky and she
51:07
would, especially on, on leg days. This is, yeah,
51:10
this is what she was saying at dinner. But then
51:12
she would put the sauna blanket around and she
51:15
said it, she would feel so much better. Better.
51:17
So she wanted to know why.
51:19
Andy Mant: Yeah, absolutely. No, it's a great question. And
51:22
it comes all comes down to recovery and how light
51:24
can be used to penetrate deep within to the
51:27
muscles. So when she's been in the gym, you know,
51:29
she's a female, she's going to be working her
51:31
lower body constantly. Like that's just how
51:34
females do it. Like guys work up the work on the
51:36
chest, the girls work on the legs and the glutes.
51:39
So she's had a hard day in the gym and she's had
51:42
a good session. She's going to have all that
51:45
energy sapped out of the muscle. You know,
51:48
they're going to be. She would have pushed them
51:50
to the point of, you know, failure so she can
51:53
grow those muscles which leaves them feeling
51:56
wobbly and jelly like after, after an intense
51:59
session. So the way infrared sauna works is
52:03
different from red light therapy. So it's not
52:04
near infrared and it's not red light, it's far
52:07
infrared light. So it's used for heating
52:10
purposes. Now when you go into a normal sauna,
52:13
like a cold sauna, it heats the air around you,
52:15
so it just sort of heats the outer part of the
52:17
body. Whereas what the far infrared light does,
52:20
it penetrates deep into the muscles and starts to
52:23
heat within the muscles. It starts to raise the
52:26
temperature internally. And what studies have
52:28
shown is that when we apply heat, not cold, after
52:32
we work out, that enables the muscles to start
52:36
relaxing, more energy to be produced in the
52:39
muscular system. And when there's more energy
52:41
produced in that system, we start to recover
52:43
faster. And as a result, those shakes will stop a
52:48
lot quicker because we're warming those muscles,
52:50
providing more energy for them to heal quickly.
52:52
And she'll come out of that sauna blanket and
52:55
just, yeah, feel like she can walk again
52:57
normally, which is something that wouldn't have
53:00
happened that quickly without utilizing far
53:03
infrared light for that sort of internal heating
53:06
process of the muscle.
53:09
Meredith Oke: Cool. Thank you. Okay. There's that's the clip
53:13
for Millie. All right. So then my younger, my
53:18
youngest, her question was, how do you get the
53:22
orange glasses? Orange?
53:25
Katie Mant: Oh, it's quite a process, actually. Actually
53:27
takes about a few hours per lens. It's basically
53:32
just keep it brief. It's a constant dying. So it
53:37
goes in and out of a. Of a bath, I guess you
53:39
could call it, of dye, and it sits within there
53:42
for, say, 30 minutes. You pull it out, rinse it,
53:45
and it just keeps getting repeated until it gets
53:47
to the potency that that's needed. But
53:50
ultimately, it is a sort of a dye that takes
53:52
place in a little bath. It's quite a cute process.
53:55
Andy Mant: But you don't just have one bath for one pair.
53:58
Our lab has, like, multiple baths with multiple
54:01
glass lenses in there.
54:03
Meredith Oke: So the lenses go in the back bath?
54:05
Andy Mant: Yes. Yeah, they go in the tint bath and then
54:08
they. They cook in there for probably about two
54:12
to three hours. Then they come out and then they
54:14
go into a spectrometer. So the spectrometer tests
54:18
the frequencies of light that pass through the
54:20
lenses and the ones that don't. So if we pull it
54:24
out and we aim for 100% light blocking from 400
54:28
to 550 nanometers, which is the. The melatonin
54:31
disruption zone, according to the science. And if
54:33
it's at 98% or 99%, goes back in the bath for a
54:37
few extra minutes to cook a bit more, then it
54:39
goes back and it's tested. But 99% of the time,
54:43
we know the exact time that each lens needs to be
54:45
within the tint bath to achieve the 100% blocking
54:48
between those frequencies. So, yeah, they have a
54:51
lovely warm bath in a lovely solution, and then
54:53
they come out looking like yours.
54:57
Meredith Oke: That's so funny. That's a good question, Twyla. I
55:01
didn't actually know that. So it's like the clear
55:04
glass absorbs the color and then depending on how
55:10
long you leave it in, all the way up to 100%.
55:13
Andy Mant: Yes. And if you leave it in for like an hour, it
55:15
would look like paler orange all the way up. If
55:18
you left it in for, like 10 hours, it would be
55:20
bright red and you wouldn't see anything red. But
55:24
you have to time it just right. It takes a lot of
55:26
experimentation, but we managed to have the
55:29
recipe. Now that works really well. And the tin
55:32
is developed in partnership with our lab partner
55:35
as well. So it's proprietary to our glasses,
55:39
which is really good.
55:41
Meredith Oke: That is so cool. Okay, that was a good one. I
55:47
didn't know That I love thinking of all the
55:50
little lenses in there.
55:53
Katie Mant: I like it.
55:54
Meredith Oke: Yeah. Well, you know, I should get a little bit.
55:57
Get the 11 year old to do the podcast questions
55:59
going forward. So my son, he succeed. He, he
56:06
didn't have a question, but he wanted to say
56:08
thank you for using. I don't even know what,
56:11
remember what they're called. But the thing that
56:12
plugs in, he's like, that's the. He liked it was
56:16
the kind that you can use and that it plugs into
56:19
anything. You know what I'm talking about? Like
56:22
where you go to charge it. What's the little
56:25
piece that sticks in called?
56:27
Katie Mant: Oh, for. On the phones, like the. Is that what
56:30
you. Yeah.
56:30
Meredith Oke: Or on the, on the night lights. We have all the
56:33
little clip on night lights.
56:34
Katie Mant: Oh, yes. Yes.
56:36
Meredith Oke: That you would plug in to charge them. Yes, that
56:39
you can see how technical I am. Right? The thing
56:42
that plugs in to charge it.
56:47
Katie Mant: Okay.
56:48
Meredith Oke: He was happy because he could use any plug and it
56:51
charges.
56:52
Andy Mant: Yeah.
56:53
Meredith Oke: That was his feedback. That's all I got.
56:55
Katie Mant: Nice. I'm glad. Yeah. Again, look at him spotting
56:57
all these little things.
57:00
Meredith Oke: I said, are you sure you don't want me to double
57:02
check that I'm not overreacting, making you wear
57:05
orange glasses and make your turn your screen red
57:07
all the time? He's like, no, I believe you. I
57:11
actually noticed a difference, Mom. Like, okay.
57:17
And then Twyla also wanted to know where you got
57:19
the name Bon Charge.
57:21
Katie Mant: Oh, do you know what? That took what, a year to
57:24
18 months? That was a mission. That was an
57:26
absolute mission. Because we wanted a name that
57:28
reflected the products that we currently had, but
57:31
also the vision of where we're going as well. So
57:34
it all comes down basically. Bon Charge means
57:36
good energy. So we're principled around the fact
57:40
that we harness the good energies of nature and
57:43
then try and block the bad energies of the modern
57:46
day world. So it was all about good energy. But
57:49
it was just a lot of brainstorming, a lot of
57:52
troubleshooting to find a name that, that worked.
57:54
So. Yeah, nothing glamorous really. It was just
57:57
me and Andy bouncing names around until we found
57:59
one that worked. So I wish there was a more
58:01
polished story.
58:02
Meredith Oke: No, that's a great, I mean, good energy. That's,
58:06
that's a good. And it is, it's a cute little
58:08
like, it's a good name. It's a good.
58:10
Katie Mant: I'm glad you like it.
58:11
Meredith Oke: You did a good job. Yeah, it lands. And it's
58:15
funny because whenever I work with, you know,
58:18
people who, you know, like my podcast producer or
58:21
technical people who don't really know anything
58:23
about the content of what I do. They're just
58:25
there to help me. A few. A few months in of
58:29
listening to all of my. The interviews that I do
58:31
and pros, you know, editing all my stuff, they're
58:33
like, okay, send me a link for the blue for those
58:36
glasses. So I remember I said, my podcast
58:43
producer, she. She wrote me back. She's like,
58:48
they're not cute. And I was like, okay, try. Try
58:52
this one. And I sent her Bon Charge. She was the
58:57
ones she was finding. She's like, I understand
58:59
why to wear them, but they're not. They don't
59:01
have.
59:01
Katie Mant: They're not cute.
59:02
Meredith Oke: And I'm like, oh, Bon Charges are cute. So I
59:06
don't know if that was you, Katie, or what, but
59:10
this woman had like a trend level that she was
59:13
not willing to go below even to save herself from
59:17
the blue light.
59:18
Katie Mant: I'm here for that as well.
59:20
Meredith Oke: So that was. She was happy.
59:23
Andy Mant: If it was up to me, they'd all be looking like
59:25
lab safety goggles. Thanks for them looking cute.
59:30
Meredith Oke: Yeah, I thought maybe I was like, oh, Andy's.
59:33
Yeah, Andy did this with his wife. Maybe that's
59:35
why his are so cute. So, yeah, I just wanted to
59:43
wrap up. So I alluded to this earlier, but I
59:46
really do think that entrepreneurs play such an
59:50
important role in the progress of society because
59:56
what you identified in order to start this
59:58
company was a problem, and now you built a
1:00:03
product to help to solve that problem. In order
1:00:05
to sell the product, you need to educate the
1:00:07
public on that problem. And so we all work
1:00:10
together. And I just want to say that because I
1:00:15
coach a lot of people who. In the health and
1:00:17
wellness space, and they just want to help people
1:00:19
and they don't want to charge any money and they
1:00:21
don't want to start. They're like, oh, the
1:00:23
business stuff, oh, I don't know. But I think it
1:00:26
really matters. And I think it's a really
1:00:29
important, crucial piece of creating a healthy
1:00:33
culture to have companies that are rooted in good
1:00:36
stuff. And so I just wanted to say that because I
1:00:40
know it's hard.
1:00:44
Katie Mant: You believe in and you're passionate about it,
1:00:46
and for those people that.
1:03:03
Meredith Oke: Oh, thanks, Andy. Well, I. I really do love
1:03:06
partnering with you guys. And you run a really
1:03:08
tight ship. You know, your company is really well
1:03:12
run, your marketing is good, all your stuff is
1:03:14
good, and I think that matters. And you're
1:03:19
modeling how to do that in a way that has
1:03:22
integrity and that is overall, you know,
1:03:25
contributing to our culture and to our society.
1:03:29
And so good job. Yeah. It was a pleasure to have
1:03:37
you both back on and, you know, to everyone
1:03:41
listening, if you want to dig in more. Andy. I
1:03:45
made Andy go really deep on his how to build a
1:03:48
successful business in our first interview. So
1:03:50
circle back and listen to that one. But thank you
1:03:55
both, such a pleasure.