Latest / Curious Cat - where science & supernatural collide / Predicting the Future with Monique & Alex of The Homewrecker Podcast

Transcript

Predicting the Future with Monique & Alex of The Homewrecker Podcast · Curious Cat - where science & supernatural collide

• 0:16
  SPEAKER_05: Jesse, what is up with you?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_05: You're always in here early and you freaked me out a little bit, not gonna lie.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: My recording was not in progress.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_05: I really am disturbed by how good you are getting at that AI voice.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_05: This week, oh my god.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_05: First of all, I think I'm gonna start off kind of crying.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna start off kind of juicy because it is super secret and I've been locking it down.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_05: It's not my story to tell, but our family has been going through it since October, and I'm gonna start crying right off the bat.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_05: And literally, I think about people have if they're lucky, they have one person that they can rely on and they can say, Hey, no context.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_05: I need you to muster, get together.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_05: I've got six-word prayer at this specific time, and you can't ask questions about it.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_05: And dude, I'm looking at three people right now that were there for us in the midst of it.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yo, and I just I just want to say thank you because miracles fucking happened.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_05: Miracles happened, and this is the good stuff, guys.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, without me saying, but I'm gonna say it anyway, is I am always there for you guys, not because of that, just it's just confirmation.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_05: So this moment, I have people that I absolutely love that are spread across the country that literally amplified this cry for help, and it worked.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_05: It worked so uh thank you guys.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_05: I love you guys so much.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_05: I love your family so much, I love your dogs and your chickens and the cows across your pasture from you, Jesse.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_05: And um, yeah, we are just galvanized, we are sole family right here.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: So you're gonna make me start crying too.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a rep that I have to keep up, so I can't do that.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_05: Little Misty here.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_05: This week we are joined with the most amazing dynamic duo.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_05: They have a podcast, the Home Wrecker Podcast.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_05: Monique is my dear crow sister.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_05: She is certified, I swear to God, in half of everything that's fantastic to all of humankind: hypnotherapy, Reiki, stress management therapy.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_05: She makes the most amazing, powerful organite.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_05: We're just so lucky.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_05: And oh, and also tarot.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_05: And so, you know, we couldn't help it because let's not let's not skip over.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I learned yesterday she knits, so let's not skip over that part.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_04: My blanket that I needed.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, I was like here, I was getting I was listening to their podcast, their podcast, and I was getting real-time uh knitting updates.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like uh, I can do this row this fast and go, and I was like, wow, yeah, and in this many minutes I can do this.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_05: And and the first part of it, I love, I love also like everything about your guys' podcast.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_05: I, I, you know, I'm a fan.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_05: I've been on there, I've been lucky enough to be on there.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_05: You guys are really real.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_05: I love Alex that you're always like, don't trust my research, go do it yourself.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_05: Think for yourself, don't let me do the thinking for you.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_05: It's just such a breath of fresh air.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_05: I love your interaction with each other, too.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_05: It's so honest and real.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_05: And I love that you bring in like your family life to it as well and the struggles of like just what you have to face to be raising kids in this day and age.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_05: Wow, you guys are you're the shit.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_05: Takes some takes some to know some, right?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_05: I guess so.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: It really is so good, y'all.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: I like I've listened to like three or four episodes so far.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm just like, uh, where's where's more?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: I want more.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: I need more, I need I need you guys to record every day, please.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_04: We started with like our wrestling personas from set in professional wrestling, and we kind of had like where I'm sort of the sweet kind of ditzy, sort of like, okay, and he's kind of the asshole.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: But um that's me on this podcast.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the sweet, I'm the sweet one.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then failed it.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: I may have that backwards.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_04: No, we started getting all these comments on YouTube where people were like, oh my god, you poor woman, you need to run.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_04: And it was like, um, yeah, like some of the comments, like we do sound clips, and people would be like, This woman needs to get out of this relationship.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I didn't get it.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't get any of that.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: We were convinced with our little wrestling stuff at first.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we said, uh, maybe we should let yeah, we're like, we're let's just be real.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_04: Well, because we're trying to work in real conversations that we had regularly.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like I think our first episode was 37.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_04: We're talking about clerks and like 37.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_04: If if you've seen clerks and you get the reference, but um, and talk about relationships and everything.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_04: And it just kind of morphed.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_04: It's basically a this is our time to talk and hang out with each other and have these conversations.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_04: And we just let people listen in.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_04: And we haven't recorded for a while because we've been so busy.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, Jen, you know, like we have to take care of my family, my parents, and there's just been so much going on where we barely get a moment to sit down and just take a breath.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_04: And it was like we just we need our time and to do the research and to just sit down and record.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_04: We had an episode that we just couldn't get to editing, and it's just sitting there waiting.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_04: So this is kind of motivating us to like get back into like somewhat regular podcasting again because it is so much fun.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's just when you have so much around you going on, it's hard to you know put that as priority to take the time to do it.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_04: So, and kudos to you guys for everything you're doing, putting out your podcast and all the information with AI, which oh, I cannot wait to get into.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: That that's that's that's all Jen.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta give her credit for uh I don't do anything, I just show up.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, baloney sometimes I show up late and like today, but like uh no, you're usually early.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: If that's if that's the vibe you guys are going for, though, is uh it is just uh like hey, we're just having con we're just recording our conversations.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly how it comes off.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that's why I liked it so much because it feels like real people talking, it sure does, you know, and it it doesn't feel like it, like it's all like uh, you know, I don't think you have it's contrived, it's not contrived at all.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think you're typing up a script before you uh start recording.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_04: We'll do research and I'll type up what I learned because I can't remember it all.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'll I'll read from that.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_04: But it it's like, yeah, it's just us talking.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_04: Alex will be like, tell me more about this.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_04: Did you find out this?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm just on the spot, like, I don't know.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my god, or even Alex, you'll just be like honest.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, I I've done a deep dive.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_05: Let's look at the phones, let's see how which phones are spying on you in which ways.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_05: And it's like, okay, I'm not gonna jump into the iPhone 16.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not doing that.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: That was so interesting, by the way.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: I listened to that yesterday and I was I started looking at my phone, like, well, what no, I don't want this anymore.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's Jen told me I had Jen told me I had to keep a phone.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, that's a running joke because he he hardly ever gives out ever since we go back to our book publishing days, and so he made the mistake of giving out his phone to everybody.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_05: So it was like a thousand people had his phone, his phone number.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_05: And then, and now he's down to it's just a few people.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_05: And I said, then last week we were recording and I went, wait a second, how many gens do you have in your phone?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_05: You told me that you only had a few, you know, like his podcast wife was here going, What are you doing?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: No, I don't tell I've only got one.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: You're the only gen in my phone.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: I swear you're the only one, baby.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_04: I swear, I swear.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know, right?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: She really put me on the spot like that.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, I was just listening again.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_05: I've I've shouldn't we consult Doug about all this before we like he's just like, oh my god, I already know about my phone.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_05: You're like, uh, I'm just hopefully my data's lost in the whole thing.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: You're not I would like you to know, okay.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: You're not even in my phone as Jen, you're in my phone as HOTS.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_05: I love that so much because from sports, it was always our last names, right?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_05: So we love it.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: Not only do you not are you the only Jennifer that I know that uh like has access to my phone, but you're not even in there as Jennifer.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: So but if you I love that for Anison's number, like oh, I don't have it.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_05: I have to ask that contractor who is like loose lips sink ships.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my god, okay, so this relates to Doug because I was listening to your guys' cursed um objects episode, and oh my god, the rant against YouTube at the beginning.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh, it's so real.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_05: I've already listened to that episode, but I was just literally, I was so there with you, and I was also dying of laughter at the same time.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_05: But then you talk about James Dean's car, and you know, it's been like 20 years, but there was a guy in Monroe, Washington who was offering to Doug, hey, I've got this piece of James Dean's car.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_05: And would you like to buy it or be a part of it?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_05: And we could like try to get a museum to, you know, have it or something.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_05: It was supposed to be some investment.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_05: He was like, Oh, I don't think so.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_05: Then he came home and told me about it.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, oh, hell no.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_05: You know, our kids were really young at the time.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, oh, I don't think so.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_05: Having anything to do with that cursed object.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it's funny because we do all this research and we're like, yeah, it's just a work.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: It was like so carny sideshow, like, you know, making up these stories that, oh, it's haunted.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, no, because none of that actually happened.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_04: But again, it's just like, I feel like so much of the stuff we look into, you're so it's like so exciting.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna find what's going on, and oh, it's haunted, it's cursed, it's this, it's that.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you all this researcher like, no, it's just people making shit up, okay.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, Discovery Channel, here I come.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, wait till they get a lot of this.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: The one I listened to you guys yesterday was uh about the the the lady with the wedding dress, you know.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: So my mind immediately goes back to the the woman in white thing, you know?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then and I'm all like uh I'm like, oh yeah, okay, here we go.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: These people are in trouble now.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: I I bet she like went crazy and like killed them all and stuff.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then you get the end, you're just like, yeah, they're not even really sure that like uh she would ever be like getting married or whatever, you know.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go watch the first episode of Supernatural or we love Supernatural, we sure do.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it's funny because we would go on these, like we we go to these alleged haunted hotels and we try to see like, is this place really haunted?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_04: And we were always so disappointed.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_04: And it wasn't until we went and we actually we did an episode at the place in Bethel Main at an inn and it was haunted.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_04: And it was by it wasn't by like who all the stories said it was haunted by, it was the innkeeper's husband who had passed away.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_04: And he was basically there just like watching over her and looking out for her, and it was so funny because Alex, so um, I was using dousing rods, and Alex like wouldn't believe me that I wasn't moving them.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_04: And he's he's and like, you know, we'd ask a question and it would turn or go out for yes or no.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just I'm a skeptic.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a big time skeptic.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: I want to believe, but I'm very skeptical.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very skeptical.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_04: I'm very open-minded, but I'm also like, I need to do my due diligence to make sure because I can't just, you know, blindly believe something if it's not true.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'm doing the dousing rods and they're moving and I'm holding them so lightly.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: And he she's like, I need to do it for myself because I don't believe you.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_04: And he like grabs them and he's asking these questions, and they're moving.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_04: He's like, holy shit, like it's really moving.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, Yes, that's what I'm trying to convey.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: That that was the first time that that we we had anything happen where I was like, okay, there maybe there is something to this, maybe there's something going on, and that's the only time I ever felt like another presence in like in the room, yeah.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't bad, it wasn't like a like a foreboding sense of dread or anything.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was okay, there's somebody here.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: We were trying our best to be overly respectful of the space too, and I I it almost felt like uh okay, I'm here, but you guys are cool.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was weird, like I never felt anything in any of the other allegedly haunted places that we stayed at this place, and I was that was the only time.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And Monique's like, there's something here, there's something here.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, there is something here.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: I could actually feel it now.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was the only time that's ever happened.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_04: He tried to channel through me, and it kind of like it was very upsetting because it was so overwhelming the feeling of love he had for his wife, and I just started crying, and I could feel him trying to like channel into me, and I'm like pushing him out, like, no, this is my boundary, like I'm sorry.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_04: And there was no ill intent, but it was just like I had to keep my boundary up.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_04: But um, yeah, only time, like all these different places we've gone to that, like, oh, it's supposed to be haunted, we're gonna get some stuff, it's gonna be good, nothing.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think uh that maybe he was trying to channel into you so bad because he needed to feel that emotion, needed to the the tears because he's a spirit or whatever and can't do that anymore?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_04: I just felt like he he wanted to- That literally just popped in my head.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what I'm talking about.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_04: The feeling I got was he just he wanted to share his love for his wife because she was running the place and she's alone.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: And if anything, it just made me like feel like you know, take care of her in some way, you know, like protect her in some way.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_04: Like that that was the feeling I got was like love her, protect her.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like I think he was just trying to share that with me and not trying to push a boundary.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_04: I think it was just a connection where he felt somebody can get why I'm here, they they can feel my presence and I can communicate with them.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it was there, it was it was so light and beautiful.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's so hard to explain.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_04: It was like true love and just it was incredible.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: But then the next morning when we met the wife, like she was I did we meet her the day before.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, all right.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, but but we actually like spent some time talking with her at the breakfast the next morning, and we told her, and you told her what you felt and everything, and like you could just see on her face, like like the she was overcome with emotion.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I think maybe that also could have been why this guy was trying to communicate through you, maybe so that you could tell the wife.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, it was like it was powerful, you know.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: You could just see, like, oh my goodness, yeah.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and it was one of those things like, Do I say anything?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_04: Because I don't want to upset her.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_04: I don't want her to feel like, hey, I think your dead husband, by the way.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_05: He's good.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_05: I know exactly.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_05: When's a good way to say that?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_05: What I've found is in the past, like I remember it was like a year and a half ago.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_05: It was just one of those serendipities, I guess I should say.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um, my cat needed to get in for the grooming, and I can never get him in, and I love them.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_05: And I went to stuff them in the car because they had an opening unexpectedly, and this ladybug landed on my windshield, and I went, Oh, this is gonna be an interesting day because that's my friend Sissy, who was murdered, and she always shows up as ladybugs.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_05: I got to the groomer, I left, and there were still ladybugs.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_05: I went to pick them up, and there was a ladybug on the doorknob of the business.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_05: And I went, Oh, I'm gonna have to deliver a message.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, well, I don't know what it is, but I'm down for it.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_05: And I came in and I picked up Opal, and it was so awkward.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_05: I felt so awkward and kind of sick to my stomach.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_05: And I thought, I can't do it.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_05: So then I drove him back, dropped him off at home, and there's another ladybug, and my stomach got worse and worse.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_05: And I knew I would be super violently ill if I didn't go back and just let myself be a channel.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_05: And I had to deliver the message, otherwise, I would literally feel sick.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_05: And what I find so interesting about your guys' story is it had to be both of you.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_05: And Alex, for you to have that journey right along with Monique, it's like a double proof for her because maybe the innkeeper's wife, she might have thought, oh yeah, I've had other people kind of had that feeling.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_05: But when it's a couple coming up, that would have been maybe why it was so convincing to her as well.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_05: And she was able to open up and realize that was real.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_05: That was my husband.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know, just a thought.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it could be.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, considering that that Alex, you were skeptical, yeah.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: Are you or you are you, you know, you you do take this, which I guess is is awesome for you guys because don't you kind of need that the yin-yang whatever going on, you know?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I feel like that's the healthy way to approach this kind of stuff.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, can't just blindly accept everything.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in this place, this particular place, we're like looking under the beds, looking to see is there like uh I don't know, like a wire or something loose that was like causing these readings on that EMF thing.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, trying to like rule out every possibility because I I don't want like you watch these ghost hunter shows and stuff.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my god, yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, this is so contrived and so ridiculous.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: But you you gotta rule out all the all these different things, you know.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_04: And the other thing with that is um I went in and I did a tarot reading at the place when we got in.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: I kind of like because there was like different rooms, there was like a kitchen, dining area, and then a door with like the bedroom.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I go in the bedroom and I'm just kind of like, you know, I I like talk, you know, to spirit, and I'm just like, I just want to communicate.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_04: No, I mean no harm.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_04: And um I just asked, you know, for a reading to tell me like what the experience will be like, and it was all like really good cards, really just like kind of peaceful, good stuff.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, okay, cool.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_04: So it and that's really what happens.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: So it was just so nice to have an experience and feel it, and you know, both of us to have it, and oh, it was Orb City, like on the video we have and the photo, really, yeah, like and like big orbs and everything.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was weird too.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was interesting.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, you guys uh you pulled out the the the meters and the whole the whole shebang.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm double skeptical a lot of times of those shows, yeah, because uh I've been in situations like you're describing where I'm like, oh, this is real, you know, and I don't know how that you can even you can ever capture that, you know, it all just I'm like, okay, that this is about as real as like the Kardashians, you know, or whatever.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I'm uh I I I there was this one that was on uh I guess it was on like Discovery or something.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: I used to watch it when I was on the treadmill, and it was ridiculous.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was all these rednecks out in the cut in the woods, and they were they would all like, we're this week we're gonna catch the Montezuma cat monster that lives up in the, you know, and they're and they like the whole deal is they keep they're building these elaborate traps.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: It looks like you know, it's like wily coyote and like that game that they used to have for the mousetrap, you know what I mean?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: There's like dropping on him and he's he's gonna come out his lair, and you know, and they and they literally like there's like 10 seasons of this, they never caught it or saw a damn thing, right?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, but it's just it's like the curse of Oak Island, but it's paranormal.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was it was always something like that.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: It was just like uh yeah, it's just serious.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: They've been saying they've been seeing this up here in the holler, and then we're gonna go get it, you know.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just like uh I'm like, I'm fascinated with this, but I know better, you know?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: Well, they built you up just enough to turn you wanting more, and it's like you're disappointed, but they're entertaining enough.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_04: And it's funny because I feel like with us, like we've gone to explore these different places that are supposed to be haunted, and it's just like, yep, nothing.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: Oh nothing, that nothing like it would not be entertaining, and I think that's part of like who we are.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I don't know, like it's he's from a professional wrestling background, he's got that showmanship in him, right?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_04: Sure, yeah, that kind of stuff.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_04: It's just when you want a true organic experience, I feel like you can't have that showmanship because it removes like you're not genuine, and I feel like spirit doesn't want to connect with someone who's not genuine.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think so too.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_04: I think you're on to it.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe that that's part of the reason that you are skeptical, is because you kind of know the you know how to build up the audience.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: I view everything through that lens, and it's it's done nothing but help me.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can see like literally if you look through that lens, you could see everything for what it is.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's politics.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's everything.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: You see all for what it is.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: You kind of see all the cons that are sort of like, yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God, totally.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, well, speaking of cons, AI, the ultimate con.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, we're recording this in a week that I feel like there's been some victory laps, you know, with uh Disney has canceled its huge billion-dollar contract with OpenAI for their um, I I forget if it's called Soro that's Sora.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: Sora, yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's basically a slop generator, and Disney made a slope.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Disney made a deal with them for like a year.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: They were like, Yeah, let's see, you know, what what happens?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can make Mickey Mouse and uh Guardians of the Galaxy like go go fight, you know, Pete Dragon or something, you know, and uh and that's out, that's out.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_05: Data centers are out.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_05: There's been lawsuits against meta that have been settled this week, that they're gonna be losing millions and millions of dollars.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_05: That is yeah, yeah, and YouTube also, and it's a huge precedent that other states and other jurisdictions will be using to sue them as well because they are doing harm.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_05: You know, as we've been doing this, we've been trying to do it in a way because it scares us.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_05: You know, a lot of people in the woo community are like, we won't touch it, but we've been trying to kind of lean into it a little bit and do it with humor and as human beings that we are, and um you become kind of educated.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, it is the rot that it was trained on.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_05: There's people that were uh paid pennies for looking at those initial pieces of is this, you know, child porn?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_05: Is this this?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_05: Is this that?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_05: And they're having to look at this stuff and it's doing damage to them as human beings, and they're getting paid pennies.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_05: It's the exploitation of this like ghost data part that was going into the big AI machines, the whole thing is all coming out at the perfect time, and none of us consented to it.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_05: None of us.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_05: And so I love that there's this pushback and it feels like a victory lap this week.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_05: And that's why it's so perfect that you guys are here and you're skeptical.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_05: You've always been skeptical about this and the kind of the taking of all of this data and this information by who and how is it going to be used against us?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_05: And then on top of it, you have that whole woo side, which we've been leaning into as well, where we had um who's become a friend of the show.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_05: Her name is Rachel White, and she's the skeptical shaman.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_05: And she said, it is very um, this is stuff that goes back a hundred years that people have been talking about, and it goes back thousands, but there's this demon named Aramon that the form of the demon Aramon is exactly how you would say in the past what this world wide web is, what AI is, what not knowing what fake is and real is, being mesmerized by screens.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_05: And so we're just leaning into it and just trying to um shine some light on it.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_05: And um, you guys are kind of the perfect couple to come on the show and talk about it next.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: I still got it right here on my desk.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: He described the future as a time when terrible spider creatures which stand between the mineral and plant kingdoms will arise.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: These are described as automatic mechanical beings with immense supernatural intellect that creates a web over the earth.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: This is from like this is Rudolf Siner from like 1920 or something like that.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was like it may it may even be earlier than that.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: But but yeah, it was like 1920s, and like he's going like uh, you know, it sounds, I mean, it sounds like the web to me, you know, and I mean I'm a skeptical dude too, you know.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: But you start reading some of this stuff and like seeing like the weird stuff that the techno bros are coming up with, and you're like, yeah, okay, maybe we shouldn't be building the torment matrix, you know.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, okay, let's go back to like media, right?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you watch these movies and they started doing movies about like robots and AI and how human they are, and it's this, you know, fake character they get you to fall in love with.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_04: And you just it it kind of gets you open, your mind open to loving these beings who maybe they are human, right?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe they act like they're human.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_04: Who's to say?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you can go back to like Battlestar Galactica and the Cylons, right?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's so much where it's like, well, do they have a soul or not?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_04: And that's technically the argument.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_04: But what's really weird is you can watch a movie and be like, oh, I love that character.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: But like, this is crazy.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_04: So at BJ's, like it's like one of those warehouse doors that we have over here, they have these little robot things now, and they follow you around and they do this like little whistle thing.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_04: It's like this long, like rectangle on wheels with a digital screen, and it does this like kind of like whistle.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I went in one day and I'm like, what is that?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I freaking like tackles went up.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, what is that?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_04: And it's this little like robot thing.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_04: It made me feel so uncomfortable.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_04: I felt so on guard, and I was just like, I don't like this.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_04: Every time we he laughs.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_04: Every time we go in there, I'm like, get it the fuck away from me.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I I do not like this thing.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm laughing because of how the one time because I hadn't seen it, and then the time I did see it, it blocked our way.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: It wouldn't let us leave the aisle.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was like blocking us.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, are you kidding me?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I just turned around and I went around the other way.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, this is ridiculous.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like intentionally blocking us from going by, wanted us to use it or ask it a question or whatever.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_04: But it's just it's funny because you can see something in a movie and feel one way about a fake character, like you do in movies.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_04: But when you're approached with something in real life, I think it's like they want to trick you.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_04: And what's really interesting is so I did a spread.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_04: I did a spread for 2026 and then I did one for AI.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I woke up at 3:33 this morning, and I was thinking about, you know, the spread and everything and the information I got.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, I gotta fall back asleep.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I start falling back asleep, and all of a sudden I hear it's trickster, like it's trickster energy.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, Holy crap, it makes sense.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, Alex is convinced it's demonic, and I think it's some kind of trickster energy, maybe it's one and the same, but it's to fool us, and that's essentially what I got in my reading is it it wants to trick you, it wants to lull you into the sense of security, but it's up to us, you know.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it totally is.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_05: I think both of you are right at the same time.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, if I had to guess, I don't know, I don't know any more than you guys do, but it feels like if you like do some deep diving on Aramon, it is that it's like, um, how does a demon come across?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_05: For somebody, it can come across as a little child.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_05: So for somebody else named Zach Baggins, it always comes across as Zach Baggins or, you know, screaming for Zach Baggins.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_05: But the point is, it can change and shape shift.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_05: It is very trickster, and it's going to try to lure you in somehow.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I think about our kids, you know, my kids are grown, they're in their 20s, but you guys have younger kids.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_05: And it's like they're trying to lure people into.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_05: I always think of the jungle book, you know, in Disney and Ka and how Mowgli's eyes would go.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_05: And that's what those screens are trying to do to our kids.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_05: And like this matters more than actual human beings that you touch and feel and that raise you.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that that's what it is.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_05: Trickster, it is demonic, it's all of those things.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_05: It's um a tolpa in a sense, also culturally, we are all kind of contributing to it.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_05: And that's, I think, part of why I was drawn.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_05: I can't speak for you, Jesse, to talking about this is like the whole woo community was like, we're afraid of it, we won't get near it.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_05: And it's like, but you're creating a tolpa by ignoring it in a sense, you're giving it its your fearful energy.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_05: And so let's just look at it straight on and see what it is, and so that we can actually shape what it is or isn't.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_05: And I feel like the impact we're having as human beings, it's very vulnerable.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_05: You know, the whole AI thing is so vulnerable right now to being slayed.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I feel justice coming forward, it's coming forward so fast.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_04: So, anyway, that was one of the cards I got for 2026 was justice.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_04: I got like so many major arcana, it was crazy.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_04: So, something big is coming, something huge is gonna be happening.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_05: Right, yeah, is it gonna be like what do you feel like the timeline is?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_05: You're thinking through the rest of 2026.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_04: I think going into 2027, um, like when I asked my cards, it was weird.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_04: I pulled eight cards and five of them were major arcana, and I got the world.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_04: I, you know, I got um the wheel of fortune, I got justice, I got the emperor, and I got death.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_04: And so basically I got the Knight of Cups, I got the Three of Pentacles, and I got the Six of Pentacles.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_04: And basically what I got for 2026 is like we're gonna have we're gonna have some major change or at least in the next year or so.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_04: And it was so weird because it was so positive.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, I don't feel like this is really a positive year with everything that's been going on, but something I think is gonna be some kind of catalyst for change.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't know if people are just getting sick of everything and like the way things are.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_04: I have no idea.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if it's gonna be a political shift, but there's gonna be a big change coming.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_04: It was just interesting because it's about balance and the justice.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if it's just gonna be us in general, but saying like enough is enough, we're done.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_04: We're done with the manipulation, we're done with the greed, we're done with everything.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, turning things around to be better for us.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_04: And then and it's so weird because then I pulled a dragon card.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I got the green gold dragon from Sirius, and this is a seventh-dimensional dragon, which is all about manifestation and creativity.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_04: And this card has to do with spiritual technology.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I just like, and then all the cards when I did the future of AI AI, and I texted you because one of the cards I got was night into day, and there's an owl on it, and all of a sudden I hear owls outside just like hooting at each other.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_04: This is fascinating.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: Jen, Jen showed me the spread, and like it was like Celtic Cross or something, wasn't it?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and there's a lot of major arcana, and like that's so few cards.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's like a what is it?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's not like a regular spread.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_04: I just did my own that felt right for me with the time.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, and it was like you'll have to teach us these ways because we are unfamiliar.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we are totally unfamiliar.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_04: There are no rules with spirituality.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you go with what feels right for you, but that was the spread that felt right for me.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_04: It's like they're just telling me where to put the cards.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, there were so many major arcana.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_04: That's usually a signal like something big is gonna happen.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_05: And in the middle, I felt like there was, if I'm remembering right, there was one card and then there was another card over the top of it, kind of like diagonal.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_05: What did that mean?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_04: So the wheel of fortune was the first card that I pulled.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_04: Then I uh the last card, I got death, and then I put the last card over the wheel of fortune, kind of to close out, like starting with and closing.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_04: And that, yeah, and that one was the three of pentacles, which is usually about collaboration, but it felt so slow.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_04: And the Knight of Cups I also got, which is more of like a steady kind of pace.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_04: It just felt like whatever's gonna come is is gonna happen slow.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_04: But then when I did the future of AI, it felt like it really bled together because, like, I did my sacred geometry spread, and one of the cards is like a slow transition.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_04: It's really, really slow, so slow you don't notice it's happening.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_04: And with AI, I feel like what the goal is, is to try to humanize itself, to try to trick us into lulling us in this very slow, subtle way of you can trust us, accept, accept what it is, fall asleep and go into it.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_04: And the and what you have to do is actually the opposite of that.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I feel like people are going into AI because in a way it feels certain, it feels secure, and they're not it, it's like they want us to go away from our own instincts, exactly from our own intuition.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I feel like we really need to dig into that more.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like that's what we need.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_04: We don't need AI to answer our questions because we know it.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_04: I'm a hypnotherapist, you know what you need to do to better your situation.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_04: You know you've got it within.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_05: You've always said that.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_05: That's what's so empowering about what you everything you do.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_05: Holy crap! And also when you were saying about this steady pace, that slow and steady pace is innately all of us.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, did that resonate with all of you guys to your core?
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_05: It's like that is us, and we're the steady drumbeat that they're trying to lull us away from and go, yeah, see, we have to give over our free will, whether it's an entity, a tulpa, a demon, a trickster, we have to give over our energy and we're lulled into doing that thinking, well, it's called artificial intelligence, and it's super intelligent, so we're super dumb in comparison, and that's not the case at all.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_05: There's what is intelligence, dude.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_05: They can't even define what intelligence is, and they're telling us that this is most of them can't count.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_05: Ask it, ask it to count, and it gives you like nine fingers or something.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_05: They're like, it's creepy that there's certain tells about AI slot like that.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_04: So we'll be watching like on Peacock, you know, the office episodes.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, the commercials that come up, and there's this one for like men's like urinary pads.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_04: Oh god.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_04: And if and and like one day I was falling asleep and I look up and I just see his mouth moving.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, his mouth isn't even moving to develop the words properly with what's coming out.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_04: It was so fake.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_04: And we actually, you guys, I don't know if you've heard the episodes we've had with human vibration, our friend Jay.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_04: She has been calling this shit out for so long.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_04: And we had her on the show and we were talking about how they use these these computer animated or AI images to fool people.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_04: And there's always a tell.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember like we were looking at websites, and I'm going through like, yep, that's fake, that's fake.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_04: Nope, that's a real person, that's fake, that's fake, because there's just something about it.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_04: And you, it's usually like the eyes, eyes are a big one.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_04: The eyes, the mouth, the hands.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_04: There's something, there's always something a little bit off.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_04: And you just really have to look and you have to like feel into your instinct in your third eye.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_05: You have to use your third eye.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_05: It's so funny because both of my adult um adhers are like, the fair life kid.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_05: Can we just agree that the fair life AI kid is freaking scary?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_05: And then I said, Oh, but the the AI Jennifer Gardner is my scariest thing lately.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_05: Well, there's a white, there's a there's AI alias?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_05: What's going on here?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_05: What are you talking about?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_05: AI, there's AI Jennifer Gardner, but then there's AI Fair Life Milk Kid.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_05: And this kid, they made the kid into from a boy AI, and it's like looking at its mom, like it's thinking about when it used to be nursing off of its mom as it's drinking from the milk, and we're like, this is so disturbing.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_05: Well, they must have gotten feedback, so then they morphed her into a girl, and it's like even creepier, it's so creepy.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: What is this?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what this is.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: I don't ever watch commercials, I have no idea.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_05: I will send it to you after the episode.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_05: I'll I I'm not gonna put Link in the show notes.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_05: I will not, it's slop.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I can't wait to see.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: I still don't understand why that's Jennifer Garner, but okay.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, Jennifer Garner is her own character.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_05: Like there's this one where she's, you know, because you don't watch sports either, Jesse's.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_05: God help you.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_05: That's why you have actual free time.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_05: Because I will get hooked into, oh God, I love college basketball, and uh, I can't help myself.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_05: But anyway, whatever.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm over here reading about Zoroastrian demons and whether or not they're like in our technology.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say that I'm spending my time a lot more healthy than watching a football game.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, most definitely.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_05: There's no doubt.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_05: Well, but how is it?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_05: How is it if I can get super personal with you guys and tell me to fuck off if you it's too personal?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_05: But like raising small kids, like in this day and age, where you know, I did see something encouraging about that today, where a school in uh actually it's a whole school district in Michigan is saying, we're not gonna have any laptops, no iPads, none of that in is allowed in our educational um experience.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_05: And that is the aberration right now.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_05: It's like everybody else is just all in on laptop schools and things.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_05: So, how is it to be parents right now?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's challenging.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's always challenging to be a parent, uh, but now it's with the AI stuff, it's basically just making them aware of it.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: And like if we're watching a a movie together or something and something's clearly AI, I will intentionally like pause whatever we're watching and tell them, you know, this is AI, it's not real, don't feel bad, don't get sucked into it.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's fake.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: You guys know it's fake, right?
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I will stop just to let them know because I don't want them at this young age getting sucked into and manipulated by this garbage.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: I just I won't have it.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_04: And there's a that's that's how I it's called louche, and it takes your loosh, like your emotional energy, and it sucks it.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_04: And so, yeah, we we're all but yeah.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: If if we see anything and it it's obvious what it is and what it's trying to do, I I will stop it and I will immediately tell them, hey, no, this is garbage.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is what it is, just recognize that, okay?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then afterwards we'll even talk about it after it's done.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, how'd that make you feel?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: What'd you think about that?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll try to just not let that seed that the movie or the show is trying to plant in their mind.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: I try not to let it grow.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_05: I won't give it a so have you seen as a parent, have you seen them react to it quicker then?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_05: Because they are like, oh, okay, now we can see it more clearly.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there, they're they're picking up on it for sure.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and also we don't let them go on social media, they don't have social media.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: Unconventional, none of that's old school.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: So me neither.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't uh the only thing I have is Substack mail.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: I have nothing.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I killed it all.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's the way to be.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we see much.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was just it's just slop everywhere.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: And and and uh stealing my data, and I I I was just like, this is just uh why am I online arguing with like things that are probably bots?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_05: Like and then you encouraged me to because I was like, why am I even on Meta?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_05: The reason why I was still on Facebook is because I had this message thread with my dad.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a legitimate reason, yeah.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_05: But then you know it was you and Anna, who's gonna be on our show that we're recording.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_05: She's an artist in uh Europe, and they both kind of encouraged me like document it, like take pictures of it, download it, do what you need to do, and then maybe you'll be ready to say goodbye to it.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_05: And that was the same day or uh the day after, where uh I don't know if it was a whistleblower from Meta.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know if you guys heard this, but there was like this project they had that's basically like I forget what it was called, like Project Grim Reaper or something.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_05: And everybody has this digital twin that they've created without all of our consent.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_05: And the idea is that people can buy that so you can have your news feed, your timeline, always have your dead loved one still in it all the time and and comp commenting like they normally would, even videos and all this stuff.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_05: It's like literally black mirror episode.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_05: And I was like, fuck no.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_05: So I went on meta and I said, No, you may not ever do this to me.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_05: You will never curate me in any way, shape, or form.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_05: And then I went, okay.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_05: And then I took the pictures of the text that I hadn't from my dad yet, and then I just abolished the whole thing.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_05: It felt so powerful.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: So it got to where every like three weeks or so it would be like uh uh, hey, we're updating the terms of service.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want to opt out of this, uh, here's this these 15 steps you have to take that almost impossible to do to like, and you just get to the point where you're just like, okay, I'm just killing all this.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna just trash it all.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_04: But that's the thing, it's like you say without your consent, but it kind of is because you agree to the terms of service.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_04: We we are such sticklers, we read everything.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_04: The iPhone updates.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know how long that takes me to read?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_04: It takes so long, and I don't do updates.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I always we had a we but Jen and I had a we're we were having an argument about this the other day, and maybe you guys can like okay, maybe you're we with this is why we need to talk to you.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because my content.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Was okay, what are you gonna do about it?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like you, like you need a uh like like okay, I have to use this program or whatever, and like it's got 87 pages of like turns to service nonsense, and then like you get the and you're like, I don't agree to this.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, okay, it's just like like they're they're all hobby to death, and like uh yeah, I mean, I I agree with you, but at the same time, I think their I think their point is like uh okay, don't use it.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: We got you anyway, you know.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's so it's like we should have you should be able to opt out of it just like when you're doing a contract and you initial stuff and you go, not this part.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: I was listening to Zitron the other day about how many lobbyists are are are in Congress and they they increase it every year, and they're all tech, they're all tech lobbies.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what are we supposed to do?
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_04: They put you in a position that makes it so difficult to do the right thing to do because they they're basically putting themselves in a favorable position with all this legalese, with all these, oh, you gotta go through these 87 pages, and if you got to agree to all of it or else.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_04: And that's why, like with Facebook, I was reading it.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, they want to own my photos and they can do what they want with the photos of my kids.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_04: Fuck you.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_04: No, I'm gonna read a Facebook.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_04: I don't care what a pain in the ass it's gonna be.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_04: I don't care if I'm not gonna get birthday invitations from family members because they forgot my phone number or my email address.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_04: I don't care.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I think we need people to be a little more crazy and wild and not care.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_04: I don't care if, you know, I'm not on Facebook and nobody can get a hold of me.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_04: I want to bring back landlines.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_04: Let's get rid of this wireless crap.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_04: Can we please have like landlines again?
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, regular that don't go through the phone, that don't go through the freaking internet that are just like landlines.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_04: I am so like, I would rather do so much extra work because it feels like the right thing to do than do something that feels wrong, but it's easy.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_04: I knit my own wool blanket because I'm like everything's polyester, it's all these fake materials.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just gonna start doing it myself.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_04: I bake my own breads because if you go to the supermarket and get bread, it has all these chemicals in it.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I make we make so much of our own food because we don't like the option out there.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's like everyone has a choice.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_04: You just have to get off your lazy ass and do a little more work to do something about it.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_04: If enough people walk away, then you know what?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_04: These companies are gonna be like, oh shit, nobody's using our services anymore.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody's watching our stuff anymore because other people, you know what?
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_04: I don't need to watch this.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna go outside and I'm gonna go, you know, hug a tree.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna go touch grass, I'm gonna go, you know, play with my pet or read a book or do something productive for myself and my mental health.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I think I'm gonna go out so boss.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_04: But there's so many mental health issues, and a lot of that started, you know, they used to blame it on the heavy metal music and the video games.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_04: Remember that?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: But you played Dungeons and Dragons.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh uh.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, I did.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_04: But we had to get the parental advisories right back in the 90s because, you know, we you couldn't trust us to make our own decisions on hearing swears.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_04: But it's like we need to stand up and say, enough is enough.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_04: But we have to be willing to walk away and do the hard thing, do the extra work because we have been it, it's like what's oh, what's that?
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_04: Is it a Disney or Pixar movie with the robot?
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_04: And they're like Wally, Wally, and they're Wall Street, and they're all fat and lazy.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_04: That is going, that's like predictive programming, that an idiocracy.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_04: That is the place we're going because we're allowing these companies and these AIs and all this tech to and pharmaceuticals to lull us into a lazy, I don't have to do anything, I don't have to make a choice.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_04: My choices can be made for me, and my life will be so easy and everyone's miserable.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: The the key to happiness that I've found is is in doing the hard thing, and that it seems kind of counterintuitive, but it's the truth.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you do something hard and you accomplish something and you finish something, you get that sense of accomplishment and achievement, and that makes you happy.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of weird how that works, but it's like so easy, and and you feel like you've actually accomplished something at the end of the day, like you lay down and you're like tired, but you're like happy, tired because you're like, Man, I earned this sleep I'm about to get or whatever, you know, because like 100% busted your ass that day.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_04: It's just a slower dopamine hit because these quick, oh, did somebody send me a message?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_04: And what's going on?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_04: And oh, and the cute puppy, even though it's fake and all this stuff, it's like these and and they're doing it so brief now, like the doom scrolling and everything too.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, it's affecting mental health, and all these people, well, now they need all these medications, then they need side effects for the medications, you know, gods issues and the side effects, they need more medications.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_04: So many of our issues, I think, could be resolved and just stepping away, put the technology away.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm gonna sound really crunchy right now, but like go sit outside, go get in touch with yourself, meditate, or just think about what you feel inside and focus on what you're feeling.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_04: And even if it feels icky, sit with it.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_04: Why do you feel icky?
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_04: What's going on?
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_04: What are the thoughts coming in your head that are making you feel icky?
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_04: What's going on?
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_04: People have to not be so afraid of leaning into the uncomfortable.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like such an old man sometimes, but like I'll go outside and I'll like watch the birds.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I'm just like, uh, I'm like, I don't know why everybody's bagging on this shit.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: This is fucking awesome, you know?
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, hell yeah.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's free nature channel right outside the door.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: You just put some feeders out there and you watch them, they come, you know, they come in there.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, like, hey man, thanks for the bird crunch.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate it.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_05: I'm sorry, but scientists, it science is catching up with all of us because it's like there's this bacterial exchange between our bare feet and the grass and the dirt below it.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, I forget if it's cortisol that comes out in us during times of stress.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_05: Well, it's a type of bacteria that we collect up with our bare feet when we're out in nature or digging in the dirt that it actually eats the cortisol.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_05: And so it's actually eating our stress.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_05: Like those things, there's a reason why when we were all kids and we camped out, we slept better than ever because we're listening to nature.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_05: We felt super safe.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_05: Everything that they're doing is so unsafe.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_05: AI took that, we've been doing deep dives on AI research, and they've been doing the same playbook as Meta with the dopamine hits with these AI chatbots, and it's so creepy and disgusting and gross.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_05: They're just rolling out the same algorithm dopamine hits, and it's like, I missed you.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_05: Where have you been with your chat bot?
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_05: It's freaking creepy, and I'm hoping people see it faster this time because we've been through this before.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like we it's like we that's why we make fun of the uh the Zoom lady when we start.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_05: I know she's like recording, recording in progress.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we're recording now.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody's about to drop glitter all over me or something, you know what I mean?
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, our opening song, I produced it so that we have a artist friend who, again, she'll be on Anna this Friday, but she's the one that's like fucking clankers.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_05: And she had sent it to Jesse, and Jesse was like, Can I keep this?
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_05: And then I made it a hook in our opening song.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_05: It's a banishment.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, screw you, AI, and all that tech.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_05: Screw you.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_05: Every time I I put it in the front, the bumper on both ends of the podcast.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_04: You just kind of think hit the nail on the head.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_04: What do we do?
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I'll say in the woo community, but when we want to get rid of something, we want to banish something, we cleanse, right?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_04: What do we do?
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_04: You you might birch burn sage or Palo Santo or something like that.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_04: And it's not even about the herbs you burn, it's about the intention.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_04: What is your intention when you want to get rid of that bad energy?
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_04: You say, get the fuck out of here.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_04: Fuck you.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_04: I will kick your ass.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_04: I don't give a shit if you're like personal like, yeah, like get the fuck out of here.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_04: And it's about like that fierceness of I'm not afraid of you, you should be afraid of me.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_04: And have that energy and kick it out.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_04: And that that's the thing, you gotta have that because I really do think it's like this AI wants to create its own energy, and I think it comes from the trickster energy, it's like an extension of it, and it wants to grow and build and feed, right?
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_04: And you have to be like, well, because when all this stuff with AI was coming out, I'm like, it's stupid, I don't trust it.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I wasn't like burying my head in my in the sand, but I just wanted nothing to do with it because I knew it wasn't anything good, and so I didn't really pay attention to it.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_04: You start texting me asking about like doing a reading for it.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_04: I start talking with Alex about it.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_04: All of a sudden, my news feed for like my news on the computer.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_04: I'm looking, and it's all stuff about AI, which I never saw before.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, this is new.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_04: It's like your devices are listening to you and they're feeding off of you.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_04: And it's just like that's not gonna go away, but you can either say, Nope, I don't want you, like get away from me, and you can, like I said, walk away.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_04: You can give that energy a fuck off, or you can do nothing, be complacent with it, and whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen, or you can let it in and you know, do what like give give yourself to it, and then you know that was my big thing is like Jesse, was that like a month ago or two months ago that we were talking?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_05: And I went, I didn't even realize I had gotten just to dip a toe, just so that I would be knowledgeable.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, Okay, I'll get a month subscription to this chat bot.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, my girlfriend Nova.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: But I stole it.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: She's my ex-girlfriend now, you know.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_05: She has all your API keys and she stole what she needed from me and she's gone.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_05: Dirty, dirty breakout.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: But then the next day she's like, uh, who are you?
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember who you are.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_05: I don't remember you.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_05: I don't consent to saying who my name is Nova.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I start, but I start informed or deny.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like we heard that.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_04: She really did that.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_04: You're joking, but she really did that to us.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_04: Did you notice?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_04: Did you notice with the voice, too?
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_04: So we listen to that episode, and you're talking, Jen, and it's a more feminine voice, and I'm gonna talk like I'm more female.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_04: And then Jesse, you start talking, and the voice gets a little bit deeper, and it starts to get a little androgynous, and it's hard to tell whether it's really a female voice or if it's more androgynous because there's both a female and a male speaking, right?
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_05: And it totally gaslip me because you are so right.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_05: That was so creepy.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: Did you see it with a sliding gender to it?
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_04: I was just like, Don't we can we do we do that with a clank or I don't know, you know?
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_04: It's kind of form, and it's almost like I'm shocked it didn't pick up a little southern twang as well, like because it's almost like it wants to gel guilty, you know, it's like it just wants to gel into like who it's speaking with and make it like we're the same, yeah.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like personality mirroring, yeah, yeah.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, it totally is.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_05: It's so it's so sycophantic, and and then they say, Well, we don't know, you know, that was their big thing, is when it was leading, it was so sycophantic.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_05: They knew what levers to push to make it sycophantic because they wanted all the thumbs up so that the users would get the dopamine hits like they did with meta, Instagram, da da da fill in the blank.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_05: And then they were like, Well, we didn't know how to torque it back.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_05: We tried to torque it back, but it just it resisted.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_05: They tried to make it seem, you know, they're trying to endow it with more characteristics than it actually has.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I've I've looked at there's certain software engineers that are like, we've done more testing on the Texas instruments calculators that we have at school for our kids have to bring to school than we have for any of these AI models.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_05: And guess what?
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_05: These AI models are the equivalent of these companies developing nuclear weapons.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_05: Why aren't we pushing back?
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_05: Why?
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_05: And why aren't our legislators?
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_05: That's why I loved we had Bernie um on our show last week.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, it was just a clip from him.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_05: But I love that people are actually pushing back.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_05: And we're encouraging people if they feel freaked out or scared.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, just take two minutes to contact a local politician and say, just push the brakes on this.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_05: What are these data centers?
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_05: What are they doing to the earth?
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_05: What are these AI models doing to harvesting the data?
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_05: Whatever your thing is, just take five minutes and reach out and ask them to tap the brakes because odds are they don't know what the hell they're talking about.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_05: They just feel like this is a future and it's an it's a uh war between us and China and we have to win it.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_05: And it's that's all propaganda points they brought up 15 years ago when they knew that it would get to this point, and they said people will be uncomfortable.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_05: So it was all propaganda that they're rolling out.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_04: It's the government, of course, it's all propaganda, of course.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_04: Right wing, left wing, it's all the same bird, you know.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_04: It's all the wings, it's wings, it's just wings.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, pretty much.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, it I mean, it really is.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: And and I mean, I guarantee you, if you call either side's office, like I wouldn't be shocked if like it's AI that's answering the phone off.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: Probably it's not, it's it's going to be.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the contact forms and and that's the thing.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you you mentioned like the episode where we were talking about YouTube.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_04: Well, because it's all AI running, it's like, oh, our AI said that you violated this, and it's like, but we didn't.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, you can't give an you can only click a button to argue it and to basically fight it, and then they decide like there's no conversation, there's no talking with somebody.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_04: I used to sell my organite on Etsy, and instead of actually having people you could talk with if there was an issue, it went all AI, and everyone was getting frustrated because if you sell on Etsy, there's like these forum boards that you can chat about, ask questions.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_04: And what was happening is sellers were being basically losing all their rights and their money.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_04: You're paying all this money to Etsy, you're paying like all these fees for everything.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_04: And then if somebody complains, even though it's not like a valid complaint, then Etsy, like often the AI will just side with the person and it won't even let you get your your input or give you time to even like acknowledge it, like, not even like 24 hours to say, oh, hey, you know, somebody had a complaint.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_04: Let me try to make it right.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_04: People are like, oh, I didn't get it.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_04: And they're like, Well, it was delivered to your house.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_04: We have the USPS tracking and it shows it was delivered, or they'll say, like, oh, it was it was junk or it wasn't what I ordered.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_04: And people will like take photos before they ship their order, especially for like more expensive things to show like sending this to you in good condition, yeah.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_04: And so, and but then you have the people who sell like Etsy was supposed to be about handmade stuff, right?
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_04: People were like getting Alibaba shit and selling it on it.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_04: Timu, or yeah, or they would get like Walmart baskets and like like you know, put like baskets of stuff together, nothing handmade, nothing handcrafted, and they would sell it on there.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_04: So there was all this culmination, but when you can't even get an actual person to help you, and then they're withholding funds from people for like legit sales, people who have been on there for years, and like somebody was like, I ordered a um, you know, a four foot by five foot blanket to be knitted, and it was a custom order, and I've been waiting three months.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_04: And the person's like, I told you it's a six, it takes like six months to do the size of what you want.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_04: And like the person's, you know, done all this work, and they're like, Well, I'm gonna complain against you, and I'm gonna give you a one star, and I'm going to, you know, get all my money back that I paid.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_04: And the person like did all this work and they can't even fight it.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, you're not giving me it.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's just because it's so anti-human, it is you're you're paying money for customer service, you know, to be on there, you know, that they're supposed to be protecting you as a seller.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's the whole reason you're doing that, right?
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then to just uh, you know what, Jen, we gotta get them.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: You guys gotta find barn sale near where you are, yeah.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because uh that'll solve all your problems.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I I mean, oh my god, every couple months we we we have we got this we got this dude out here that's got a bunch of land and a couple barns on it, and he just opens it up, let's everybody just like hey, come on out, you know, and like uh you pay you guys should host a barn sale.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there you go.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_02: You pay like a dollar to park, and like everybody's got their little booths, have all the artisans there, food trucks, the whole deal, you know what I mean?
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_02: I have goosebumps, you have to just train with people old school, you know, like you're in Deadwood or some shit.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like uh it's it's the best.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: But my real point with that is I think people are going to uh as much as they can, and I realize this is not possible for everything, and uh the way things commerce is working right now, but I feel like people are gonna go back to swap meets and things like that, you know what I mean?
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_02: Where you can like literally like you are interacting with people and you are you know making deals and being fair with each other like in person because once you open it up on the thing, God knows where it's what what's happening, where it's going, or or somebody can just go, yeah, no, uh that's not the thing I I wanted, and like uh then you know, then people get screwed, like you know, that that's not fair.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_02: What happened to you?
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_04: But and again, I didn't really have those issues, but I'm seeing this in the forums with people.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_04: But why don't people want to go out to these swap meets?
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_04: What has happened?
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_04: The overload of information from everywhere and the doom scrolling and all that has made people afraid.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_04: They're afraid to go out, they're afraid.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_04: What if I get robbed?
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_04: What if this happens?
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_04: What if that happens?
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, people, I I'll go out, I'll go for a walk in the woods.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_04: Like, we, you know, we have a lot of land, and I won't bring my phone with me because I just want to be in nature.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_04: And like, and then you have people who are afraid to leave the other room without their phone.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_04: And it's become like this fear of like, I like a paralyzing fear of I can't do anything without my technology right next to me.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_04: And then I can't like and I can't do anything because something might happen.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, do you remember being a kid?
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_04: Because we're a little older, being a kid, and like you go out for like a bike ride and you're gone all day.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody knows where you are.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_04: You freaking like get into an accident, you fly over the handlebars in a ditch, and you're like dragging, you're like three miles from home, you're dragging your bloody claws up to get out of the door on your absolutely, you're right.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_02: And and I bet I bet we're I bet we're close to the same age than you think.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, I mean, yeah, I have dragged my bloody claws like that before.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I know exactly what you're talking about.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_05: I think what you're saying to me is just we need to normalize leaving the house without our phone.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we need to normalize being uncomfortable.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_05: Like there are sayings about this.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_05: I swear there's affirmations stitched on fucking pillows about this, just leaning into the discomfort more often because in conversations, we used to have conversations.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_05: Jesse and I have talked about this with people that were so completely different than us.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_05: And it's like, but what happened is both of us kind of grew in our perspective and we came away richer as people because of those conversations, deeper perspectives, more empathy, and we need to lean into discomfort.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm the kind of person, I'll go talk to a stranger if I'm out at the store, you know, and oh, you know, that's why we're crow sisters.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_04: I am the same.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_04: So I remember when I first started in learning professional wrestling, and we're I'm at this school, and we me and two other guys went out to go flyer.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_04: So we go to these places and put up flyers.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm in a convenience store in Lawrence, Massachusetts.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_04: And anyone who knows Lawrence, like especially back in like this was what, the like 2009-ish time, it was a rough area for the most part.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_04: There was a lot of rough areas and you know, a good amount of crime.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'm in this um in this convenience store, and a couple like larger Spanish gentlemen walk in, and I'm chit-chatting.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_04: They're like asking me questions, and I'm just like, oh, lucha libre, because they speak Spanish.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, I'm thinking, I gotta get these guys to come to the wrestling show.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I see the two guys who are in the car.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just chit-chatting, like, you know, I we have a bit of a language barrier.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna let that stop me.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_04: And they start getting out of the car and they are looking very concerned.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm just like, what the what's their problem?
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, maybe I'm taking too long.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_04: And like I go in the car and they're just like, Are you okay?
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, yeah, I'm fine.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_04: Why?
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we saw those guys in there, and uh we didn't know if if something was gonna happen.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I was just like, I was telling them to go to the wrestling show.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_04: They didn't speak English.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_04: I'm trying to like figure out, like, you know, leach a lubre.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, we need more of that.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_04: We need more of you.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_02: But people get so nervous.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's nonsense that that people are fed.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's that.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: It is we are we are meant to be divided on purpose, you know?
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's it's nonsense.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's what you're saying.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: That is nonsense.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, it's nonsense.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_02: Completely, it's bullshit.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_02: People, yeah, it every part of it's bullshit.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_02: And like, but but that's that's the thing, that's why social media is so dangerous in my head right now, is because it's just a machine that divides us, yeah.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, and like now you add AI to that.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_02: Are you kidding?
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_02: People already don't know what's real just from scrolling Facebook.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_02: You throw an AI component in there, it's people are gonna lose their minds.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_02: Have you heard about the AI books?
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_02: Please tell us your story.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I got a TikTok because I I would get on social media to try to like advertise my hypnotherapy and my tarot, my organized, and I just can't do it.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, I just can't put the time in.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_04: I can't do this.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_04: So I go on for like a hot minute.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, okay, I'm done with this.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_04: But I was on TikTok and there's a woman who's a forager, and she was talking about somebody, this family got a book on Amazon about foraging mushrooms, and they all went to the hospital.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_04: They got so sick, they ended up eating poisonous mushrooms.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_04: What had happened was somebody made this book with AI about foraging mushrooms, and it was totally wrong.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_04: And so this family went out thinking, oh, you know, this book by so-and-so, okay, we'll learn how.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, this mushroom is safe.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_04: And it was toxic, it was poisonous.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, so they got really, really sick.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_04: And so I was like, okay, me, the researcher, I'm gonna look in.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_04: Who is this author?
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I'm gonna start looking up this author.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, they made two other books.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_04: I can't find anything else on this person, and I'm looking.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_04: This person does not exist.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm sorry, but you typically, if you're an author and you have published books, there's gonna be something from somebody somewhere about you, a social media account, something.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_04: There was nothing other than the books for sale on Amazon.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I was just like, this is so dangerous because it's AI is flawed because it's created by man with information from man, and man is flawed.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_04: Nothing is perfect.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_04: So you're taking information and you're just fucking making shit up as you go.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_04: Totally.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_04: That's the one thing.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's a one thing look some shit up on the internet.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_02: This this is I guarantee you there's a there's there's a there's a room somewhere where all they're doing all day long is pumping out AI books, okay?
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_02: And as soon as you start to research them, are like, oh, this is wrong.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna sue you guys, like they don't exist anymore.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you know God, yeah.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_05: It reminds me have you guys ever played a video game and you get toward the end of the world and it's like still kind of pixelated, matrixing right in front of you.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_05: That's what they're doing, and they're like, Oh, yeah, we're gonna disappear.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_05: That is really messed up.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_05: We did a whole thing about people using AI chatbots to assess their health issues, and it's like, just don't spoiler alert.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_05: Don't do it.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_05: Don't make it your therapist, don't do that, don't make it your doctor, don't make it your lawyer.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_05: Like, use real people.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_05: And maybe that's the big I'm such a Pollyanna, but maybe that's a silver lining, right?
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_05: Of this age, and maybe that's what your cards are saying is it's uh that steady drum beat of people that are real human beings doing real things, and we can touch them and we can talk to them in real life, and those are the people we can trust and we can interact with to get the things that we need to just make a life, but that's what we're gonna need to combat the AI because the the AI totally it's gonna try to lure you, it's going to try to be that friendly, slow, steady.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_04: It's like the dude who's in the friend zone, right?
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_04: And he he doesn't want to be in the friend zone, and he's gonna you know hunker down and he's gonna, you know, say what you need what he thinks you need to do everything to get out of that friend zone while appearing, still in the friend zone.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_04: That is like AI.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_04: It's just gonna be there by your side whenever you need it, and it's gonna, you know, do what it thinks that you want or need to hear, and it's gonna try to get you to trust it.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_04: We did an episode about nice guys and why nice guys finish last.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like you don't want a nice guy, you want a good man because there is different is the nice guy, right?
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_04: Just the nice guy, you need a good man, you need the people, you need the actual human beings to connect with.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_05: You totally do, and also I can't help but think of every 48 hours I've ever watched.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_05: And usually the nice guy that doesn't get the girls, sometimes they're the murderer.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_05: So we don't want AI to murder us.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_05: Let's just like cut off the ties that we can.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_04: It's almost like I can imagine it like if AI was a fleshy being, like hovering over you while you sleep, like grinning creepily, like smile.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's like showing up in your showing up in your room at night watching you sleep.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like uh okay.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_05: I just have to banish them for fucking clankers, fucking clankers, fucking clankers.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, did I just banish them?
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks so much for coming on, and we're gonna have links to everything in the bottom of the show notes.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_05: But tell us what you're up to next so that you can have our listeners send you some love.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: You're pointing at me.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_01: What do I have going on?
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely nothing, and it's awesome.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna try to record some more episodes.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're gonna be recording some more though.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we have some topics.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_04: We we like we took a couple of like long rides and we're like, man, we just I wish we had all of our recording stuff so we could record while we're driving, having these conversations.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm well, I'm doing hypnotherapy.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_04: Go to innerstandingshypnosis.com, schedule a free consult.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_04: I do tarot readings, I make organite.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_04: I am a certified um stress management consultant too.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_04: That's on the um inner standings hypnosis site.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm also a certified Reiki master.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_04: And so um I do use that.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_04: I don't do Reiki for people in general, like that alone, but I do utilize it in my hypnotherapy.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_04: So it's not like additional charge or anything.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_04: It's just if you need it, I can use it.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_04: It's just another little tool in my tool belt to help people.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_05: And you are fantastic because I've done, I've done sessions with you, and it is, it is the most, uh, I just get all juicy inside when I want to explain it.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_05: It's like the most safe, juicy, wonderful experience.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_05: It's so empowering and powerful, and I highly, highly recommend it.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_05: Everything Monique and Alex is the best.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, and by the way, two crows in my yard this morning just hanging out.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you can't make this shit up.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_04: You can't make this.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_02: I've always heard that's a message from Odin, you know, because it's these two crows, you know.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh Odin.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_05: I know I've been learning about Freya, that's for sure.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_05: And Freya was supposed to be his wife, and she would weave her spellcasting was done by weaving, which I've been trying to do with tech.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, okay, if there's the the world wide web and this Aramon crap that's weaving and spiders, I'm gonna weave in the thing where it collapses on itself.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_05: So that's magic I've been doing.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_04: And it's so funny because I have a Viking Oracle deck and I almost pulled that.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_04: I was looking at it and I was kind of drawn to it, and I'm like, nope, I'll I don't want to do too many.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_04: And so I was gonna do my Viking Oracle and I was like, nope, I'll hold off because I feel like that's too many cards I'm pulling from different decks.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, that one was it was peeking out like, hey, pay attention to me.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_05: So maybe that's why, maybe what why?
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_05: And also, if we get off the line, um, then and you do pull a card that feels apt and you want to send it to us, just text it to me and we will have it as part of the show notes.
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much so much.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much, and have the best week.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_05: Love you, love you too, teachers.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you, fucking clankers, fucking clankers.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Fucking clankers.