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What Is Risky Play? Why It Matters for Your Child’s Development · The Inspired Speaker Network

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Welcome to the Guiding Parent Podcast,
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where you'll find the mindset and tools
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to parent with greater confidence, clarity, and purpose,
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even when there aren't any easy answers.
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Together, we're going to explore
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how to better nurture and guide our children
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to support who they are and who they're becoming
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so that they can fulfill their unique potential
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and thrive in our ever-changing world.
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I'm Tammy Ulrich, your host,
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parenting and early childhood educator,
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mom, and most fun, Yammy.
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And I'm Shannon, your co-host.
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I'm Tammy's daughter and mom
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to a very energetic little dude called H.
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We're glad you're here.
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Let's get started.
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So this week on our podcast,
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we're going to be talking about risky play.
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And this is one of my favorite topics in large part
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because of my own kiddo.
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And he definitely has engaged in risky play
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throughout his life.
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And because of that, like I've gotten pretty well versed
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in what risky play is,
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but also some of the really awesome benefits it has
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in terms of child development
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and even developing grit and resilience.
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So I'm really excited about sharing this with everybody.
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So for this particular pod,
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we are going to be talking a lot about H
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because he's a wild little skateboarder
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and all of that kind of lends itself
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really easily to this topic.
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So settle in for some spicy little dude stories.
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But to kick us off,
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I want to kind of define what risky play is.
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And so for the purposes of this conversation,
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it's anything that involves height, speed,
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real life tools specifically.
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We're not risky when we've got a little plastic hammer,
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but a real hammer or a knife or a needle for sewing,
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any of that quantifies.
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It involves an element.
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So things like water or fire,
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any kind of rough and tumble play,
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and even things like being alone in an environment,
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all qualify as risky play.
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We do want to make sure that it's really clear
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that risk does not equal hazard.
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There is a difference.
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So risk is known, it's manageable.
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We have a little bit of control
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over how much of it we're going to take,
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how much is gonna happen.
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Hazards more when there's hidden dangers.
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So we want to be able to kind of structure things
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around making our risk reasonable,
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making it developmentally appropriate.
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So, you know, like think about a play structure.
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So if your child is climbing up on a play structure
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and underneath it is bare ground, that's a hazard.
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That's not a reasonable risk,
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but it's a reasonable risk
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for them to climb on this play structure
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when there's a nice fall zone,
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there's some kind of padding underneath,
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there's nice thick layer of bark.
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So, you know, it really determined
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by how much, how reasonable that risk particularly is.
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So the same activity can be, you know,
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can be hazardous for one child,
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but if they're not ready yet,
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but it might be completely normal for another child
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and definitely worse they're doing.
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It's all about development and progression
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and what's manageable for, you know, for any given child.
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Yeah, and you mentioned playgrounds are a great example.
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And one of the things I feel like I've noticed,
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you know, my childhood, my peers versus age
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and, you know, his cohort
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is that playgrounds have changed a lot.
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And so in some sense, that's great.
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Like we're getting rid of some of the things
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that are potentially hazardous,
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but it also seems like maybe we've swung really far
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into this like hyper safety zone where, you know,
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we've completely eliminated any kind of risk.
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And so, you know, we don't want kids
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to be getting major injuries, obviously,
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but those little, you know, bumps and bruises of childhood
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are part of childhood.
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And so, you know, we need to kind of be aware.
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To have a skinned knee now and then.
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It's part of learning.
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It's part of learning for sure.
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And so, yeah, we wanna make, you know, educated risk
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and, you know, known risk,
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but do wanna be aware of how far we've swung over time
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into, you know, kind of completely eliminating that.
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Right, being, you know, we sometimes tend to fall
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a little bit in the over, you know,
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being a little bit overprotective
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and being so concerned about risk
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that we're preventing kids from having those challenges
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and, you know, using their bodies
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and finding out what their little bodies can do.
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You know, a lot of kids are in sports
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and we don't really think about that as a risk,
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but sports have risks too.
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And that's an example.
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However, we also need free or self-directed play
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for kids to get those activities.
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You know, it's not, we don't have the same kind
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of risk assessment in sports.
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We don't, you know, we don't develop
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the same kind of body awareness.
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So there really is kind of a difference,
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but we accept the risks in sports,
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but why not accept those same risks in climbing a tree
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when that's, you know, it's a good climbing tree
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and we've assessed the hazards and, you know,
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it's just a reasonable risk.
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I know with age, like we've seen, you know,
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the shift in my tolerance of risk.
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You know, when he was a little guy
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before specifically started skateboarding,
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it was a lot easier to kind of worry
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and try and navigate that.
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But what I've seen with him and skate is that, you know,
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we make it as safe as possible.
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He wears a helmet, he wears pads,
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but then, you know, I have to kind of just let him go.
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You know, I've seen it with other kids.
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You know, their parents are trying to help them down a ramp
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and it throws off a kid's balance.
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And so they end up falling more
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because they haven't established that balance for themselves.
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And so Henry has managed to navigate that.
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And now for himself, he can decide,
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okay, if I'm gonna do something that is a new skill,
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you know, I'm gonna wear extra pads,
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or, you know, if it's something
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that he's more comfortable with,
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then he, you know, takes his wrist guards off.
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But, you know, the helmet stays on,
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the knee pads stay on all the time.
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And so we've kind of found this balance
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of what is acceptable risk for our family.
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And your risk tolerance has certainly grown
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in watching H with all of his things.
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But, you know, it really is so important
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because you look at how much he's grown
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in being able to take those and his body awareness
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and just how secure he is in himself.
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And it's not like he's just crazy running off.
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He assesses for himself.
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He kind of has this ability.
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He knows what his body can do.
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So it's really, you know, this is why allowing for some,
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allowing for risky play is so important
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because it really helps kids develop that sense
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of their own, you know, their own body awareness
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and knowing what their body can do.
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It helps them.
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It's really important for sensory development
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and for motor development.
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You know, we know that we want our kids
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to have good large motor skills, you know,
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but it's also things like their body in space.
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And, you know, that's part of why the proprioception
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of vestibular senses that we don't really,
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you know, those are big ones we don't really talk about,
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but that's all about kids like twirling around
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and rolling down the hill and swinging around
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to see where their bodies are in space.
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It also, think about like with,
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I see how confident, you know, H has become.
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I got to see him in person not too long ago skating.
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You know, I get to see videos,
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but it was just so interesting to watch how he has gone
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from, you know, just having to think and focus
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and really work at these things to now he,
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it's like he flows.
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It's so interesting to see this progression
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that's occurred in him.
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His coordination has really grown.
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You know, he does have to concentrate
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when he's doing the new things,
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but that concentration has been really, really developed.
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You know, really life is full of risks
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and kids need that ability to assess danger.
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They need to know and improve their capabilities
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and know that they can do hard things.
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I mean, Henry's definitely gone through that
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and learning, you know, oh no, I'm afraid of this.
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And then, but keeping at it.
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Well, yeah, like one of my favorite things
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that skate has taught him is, you know,
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when he first started, he would try and learn a new trick
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and he wouldn't get it the first time or the second time.
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And I just watch him, you know, dissolve into frustration.
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And over time, he's totally just like internalized
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that lesson that you just have to keep going
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until you get it right.
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And so, you know, even now he's working on new skills
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and I'll watch him and, you know,
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he'll just drill himself until he gets it
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or he doesn't get it, but he doesn't, you know,
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dissolve into frustration anymore.
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He gets that it's a process and that, you know,
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he's not gonna necessarily get it the first time.
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And so, yeah, watch him.
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That perseverance is so important.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah, I mean, we talk about growth mindset
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and, you know, that's a really great way of, you know,
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kind of seeing it out in the wild is how much
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he's progressed, you know, in terms of
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that kind of development as well.
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Well, and the thing too is the more we allow
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this risky play, you know, we think we're saying risky,
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but actually the safer they become
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and the more resilient they become in the long run
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when they have this ability to do
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and these opportunities to do this, you know,
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and also physical skills are really supporting
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that overall brain building.
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And so that lends itself into supporting
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their cognitive skills as well.
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Kids just really need that big body play.
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One of the challenges I feel like I've heard about,
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you know, kindergarten teachers getting kids
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who struggle to hold a pencil
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and it's because they don't have grip strength.
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And so that's a reflection of this, you know,
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lack maybe of kids hanging on the monkey bars
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or, you know, even playing with clay and stuff like that
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that develops grip strength.
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And so, yeah, you can totally see those areas
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where the physical then, you know,
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supports that cognitive development.
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Absolutely, yeah.
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You know, just developing those motor skills,
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large and small, you know, are an absolute requirement
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for their later learning.
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I know, I have a son, obviously.
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And so, you know, I tend to see this more,
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I think in boys, obviously happens with girls too.
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But what I call lion cub play,
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where they're, you know, doing the rough and tumble
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and kind of like right on that edge
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of what gets somebody hurt and what doesn't.
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And I feel like the only way that you really learn
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when you've crossed that line is by coming up against it.
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And so when they don't have these opportunities
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for big body play, you know,
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they don't ever learn how to use their body
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in a way that doesn't end up hurting someone.
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They can wrestle and, you know,
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make sure that everybody still stays safe.
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But that does come from a little bit of boundary pushing
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and figuring out, okay, that was too much.
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I got to step back and I can't go that hard.
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And sometimes that means, you know,
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some reasonable adult supervision and support.
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I want to be careful to say, you know,
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for adults not to really interfere in that
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with the constant, oh my gosh, be careful,
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you're going to get hurt, blah, blah, blah.
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But also, you know, there does tend to be sometimes,
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is your friend liking that?
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You know, a little bit of questions,
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a little bit of checking in to make sure
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that they're really considering how everybody's feeling
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and what's going on for each other.
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Absolutely.
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I mean, that was definitely the rule when Henry,
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especially was really little.
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And, you know, there's starting to develop that,
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hey, stop means stop, no means no.
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Like we don't, you know,
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if somebody asks you to not do something,
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you have to listen.
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And so those kinds of lessons get worked
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into that kind of play as well.
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Right.
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Because they do need to, you know,
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be stopping to make sure if somebody is truly getting hurt.
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But yeah, like you said,
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they need to push up against that a little bit.
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Absolutely.
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And that brings us into, you know,
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thinking about how we're reacting, you know,
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when they are playing that, you know,
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a lot of situations when a lot of scenarios like at school,
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sometimes that's not that kind of play, you know,
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just can't be a part of things,
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but we need to allow it wherever we can.
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And we need to watch our reactions, you know,
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how we feel about risk, you know,
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like you've talked about your fear factor,
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your ability to handle a certain amount of risk
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has definitely grown with H's growing
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in the things that he does.
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But we have to really look at ourselves in that,
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you know, what are you okay with?
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And thinking back for ourselves,
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were you under or over protected?
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And how has that then affected your perceptions of risk now
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in terms of your own child?
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You know, you and I have very different abilities in that,
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you know, because, well, you've grown into it a lot too.
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But like when you were little,
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I had to turn around sometimes and not watch.
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Like you'd be playing on the monkey bars
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and, you know, I knew everything was fine.
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I knew that, you know, there was protection on the ground.
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You knew what you were, you know, you knew your abilities,
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you weren't going too high or any of that,
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but I just would get so tense and nervous.
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And rather than put that on you,
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sometimes I'd just turn around and not watch.
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And that way I could avoid the, oh, be careful
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or being, you know, really nervous and, you know,
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freaking out.
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Yeah, and I think it is really important to acknowledge
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that, you know, every person, you know, every parent,
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every family is going to have different levels
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of fear factor and different things
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that they are or aren't okay with.
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You know, that's normal and that's fine.
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And so, yeah, if you can take a minute
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to kind of dive deep into your own self
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and, you know, do a little bit of an assessment of like,
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is this reasonable?
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Am I coming to this purely with fear?
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Or is it, you know, this scenario,
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maybe something that, you know,
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we don't want to have be part of our family culture.
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I'm just not okay with this or that, you know,
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but having a moment to think about that ahead of time
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will keeps, that way we're not overreacting
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or underreacting in the moment.
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Another piece of that is what to do
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when little things do happen, because, you know,
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kids, even without risky play,
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kids fall over and get owies, they get hurt.
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And they almost always will look to us to say, you know,
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how are you reacting?
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Am I hurt?
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So it's really important that we watch our own faces
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and our own reactions when things like that do hurt
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so that we don't make big hurts.
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I mean, little hurts into big hurts
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just because of how we respond.
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I swear, you can literally watch it happen.
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A kid will fall
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and they immediately look to their grownup's face.
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And, you know, if grownup is still smiling and woohoo,
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oh no, you fell, like, but I'm not freaking out.
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Kiddo frequently won't freak out either.
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Whereas if you have, you know, panic phase.
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And they automatically start crying.
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They start crying because obviously they're hurt.
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They just don't feel it yet.
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But based on mom's reaction, oh God, the world has ended.
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And sometimes they really are.
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And we can just wait and see how they respond.
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And then we're like, okay, let's, you know,
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let's fix it up.
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You know, but even if there is an injury,
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we still don't want to freak out
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because then that just makes it worse for them.
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And, you know,
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and gonna make them more fearful in the future.
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If it's just like, oh, accidents happen or things happen.
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It's okay, let's go fix it up.
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Let me give you a hug.
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We'll get a bandaid, whatever, you know,
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whatever it takes, then, you know,
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then they're ready to go for the next time.
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But there are a lot of ways that, you know,
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we can make risks safer.
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And that is really, you know, part of what we want to do.
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You know, we mentioned before that it's a progression
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and that we, you know,
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we want to provide the opportunities for it to progress.
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And also that we find reasonable opportunities for kids
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as they're ready for different kinds of risks.
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One of the things that, you know,
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being a Montessori and working in a Montessori,
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in a Montessori classroom for years and years,
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there is a lot of little pieces within that.
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For instance, you know,
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we have glass in Montessori classrooms.
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And a lot of times, you know,
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people are like, what?
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Glass, it's gonna fall, you know,
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it's gonna fall over and break.
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Well, yeah, sometimes it does.
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But that's the point.
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But that kind of, it is the point.
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Because then we realize that we have to control our body.
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We have to use our walking feet.
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We have to be careful as we walk around the room.
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And, you know, when there is something break,
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you know, children know to move out
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and it's the adults that pick up the glass.
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But everything, you know, is built for skill building
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so that that progression is really clear there.
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First, like with pouring,
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they'll pour with big beans first
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because those are easy to pick up when they spill
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and then progress to water.
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But we also use like knives.
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They cut carrots.
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We have a very special little knife.
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The-
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The squiggle knife.
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The squiggle knife for the crinkle cut knives.
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It can cut carrots, but it can't cut fingers.
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It's awesome because kids can truly, truly, you know,
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be cutting things with that.
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But it's a progression
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because then later they might use a butter knife
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and eventually, you know, that then leads to real knives.
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No big ones, just, you know, little ones.
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But they also, you know-
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For, like for sewing, I remember this
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from the Montessori classroom.
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You don't start with a needle.
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You start with like a shoelace.
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And so the, you know, you learn the motion first
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and then as you progress from that,
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then you get a blunt needle
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and then you get a real needle.
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And so it is, you know, managing each step
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so that then you can get to that more risky
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and with having been set up along the way
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so that it's not, you know,
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devolving into a hazardous situation.
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It's still just, you know, a little risk.
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Right.
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So that's the whole, you know,
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that's the whole thing is that we're preparing kids for,
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that we're preparing the way for them,
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providing opportunities that are developmentally appropriate
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that help them to gain the skills that they can then have,
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you know, for bigger things down the road.
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Yeah. And, you know, just like at a Montessori classroom,
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we can prepare our own environments
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in ways that limit and remove hazards.
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You know, part of that I feel like is making sure
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that they know what to expect, like in an outdoor space.
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You know, I've used the analogy of a river.
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And, you know, if a kid is walking through a little stream
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and they're jumping from rock to rock
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and they don't know that those rocks might not be stable,
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that they can whip, you know, wiggle,
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or they don't know that moss is slippery,
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that's hazardous.
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That's not just risky play.
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That crosses a line into something that's not safe.
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But if you can talk to them beforehand,
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hey, look at that rock, see how it's green on top?
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That green is going to be slippery.
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So you need to be prepared.
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If you put your foot on that rock, your foot will slide.
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And then they can manage.
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And it becomes risky play rather than hazardous play.
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Right. So we have some, you know,
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that's part of just sometimes we have to talk them,
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talk them through some things,
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help them to have an awareness of certain things.
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The other thing is we want to give kids real tools,
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you know, for like, if we want our child, you know,
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say we have a three-year-old who wants to, you know,
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wants to hammer,
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we're not going to give them an adult size hammer.
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That's moving more towards, you know, hazardous,
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but we can get child size hammers
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and they can truly then hammer a real nail.
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But we might want to start with something easier,
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like to begin that process,
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like a golf tee in a slab of clay, you know,
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just to get the practice down beforehand.
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But, you know, kids can have those real tools
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as well as like gardening tools
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so that they have real shovels, real rakes,
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cooking tools, cooking utensils.
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Like we talked about the crinkle cut knife
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that won't actually cut little fingers.
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So, you know, having those kinds of real tools
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allows them to do some of these things
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without there being a hazard,
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without them, you know, getting hurt
20:25
so that they can engage safely.
20:27
Yeah. And, you know,
20:29
we as adults can intervene at that moment,
20:32
but I think it's also really important to understand
20:34
as adults when our help kind of becomes not helpful.
20:40
It hasn't.
20:41
Right.
20:42
You know, and I think one of the biggest ways
20:44
is with, you know, big body play, climbing,
20:47
that kind of thing.
20:48
If you put a child into a situation physically,
20:52
put them halfway up the monkey bars,
20:54
that's not necessarily safe.
20:56
Right.
20:56
If a child can get into that position on their own,
20:58
that means they have the grip strength to hold on.
21:01
That means that they have the body awareness
21:02
to have moved themselves into that position.
21:04
But if you just hoisted them there,
21:07
they may not have the grip strength to hang on.
21:09
They might fall because that's not there.
21:11
And so just being really aware of, you know,
21:14
letting kids develop their own limits
21:16
rather than putting them in situations
21:18
where, you know, we've kind of bypassed.
21:20
Yeah.
21:21
That is just so important not to put kids
21:23
into positions they can't get to on their own.
21:27
You know, not hefting them up onto the highest bar,
21:29
not hefting them up onto the branch of the tree.
21:31
They have to be able to get there through their own,
21:34
you know, their own little bodies to make sure
21:38
that they do have that strength and ability to be there.
21:42
And, you know, we really need, you need to know,
21:44
you know, you know your kid.
21:46
You know, what are they developmentally ready for?
21:49
What is, you know, what are their skills?
21:51
What are their abilities?
21:52
And, you know, what progression have they had?
21:54
So, you know, thinking about any given situation
21:56
that they want to do.
21:57
Mommy, I want to, you know, I want to go
21:59
before we say, oh no, or just send them off.
22:04
We need to kind of take our own moment to kind of assess,
22:07
you know, where they are in their development.
22:09
And maybe there's some skills
22:10
or some other activities they need to do first
22:13
before they're ready for this bigger thing
22:15
that they want to do.
22:17
Or maybe, you know, it may be they're there
22:19
and it's just a matter of setting up an environment
22:22
or giving, finding an environment or an opportunity
22:25
that they can do that.
22:28
But we also want to kind of just assess their temperament.
22:31
Who, you know, who are they as little individuals
22:33
and what, you know, what kinds of things
22:35
do they really like and enjoy?
22:38
Yeah, and I know like, you know,
22:40
we've talked about different kinds of risky play.
22:43
And, you know, I tend to think of it more
22:46
in terms of heights and speed and that kind of stuff.
22:49
But if you have a kid, right.
22:51
But if you have a kid that's not, you know,
22:54
big body play kind of kiddo,
22:56
they can still engage in risky play.
22:58
Like, you know, like we were talking about
22:59
sewing with a needle, cutting food,
23:01
like those are risky play as well.
23:02
Roasting a marshmallow.
23:04
Yeah, that all builds awareness of your environment
23:06
in a way that doesn't require you
23:08
to be on the top of the play structure.
23:10
And so, yeah.
23:11
And I remember a little Shannon
23:13
that was roasting marshmallows at a camping trip
23:15
one time and did get a bit of a burn.
23:19
Yeah, thankfully we were camping with frozen peas.
23:23
Yes, we put frozen peas on the burn, on the owie.
23:30
But, you know, we can let kids try to do things
23:34
and test themselves and test their limits.
23:36
And, you know, we just want to, you know,
23:39
help talk them through and find out what their interests are.
23:43
So if it isn't, you know, like you said,
23:45
if it isn't big body play like H likes to do,
23:48
you know, what are the things that they do
23:50
that can provide, you know,
23:52
different kinds of skill building and body awareness?
23:57
Yeah, and, you know,
23:58
as we understand our kids more and more,
24:00
then we can, you know,
24:02
that helps us then to be able to support them
24:04
as they do engage in this kind of play.
24:06
So, you know, if you have a kid that you know
24:09
is gonna be up in every single tree that you go past,
24:12
then you learn like, okay,
24:13
so we got to talk about how sturdy of a branch
24:16
can support your body weight and, you know,
24:19
how to coach them.
24:20
Like, I'm not gonna put you on that branch,
24:22
but if you can get up there, you know,
24:23
then you need to be aware of this, you know,
24:25
and, you know, ask them, what is your plan?
24:28
How are you gonna, how are you gonna figure this out?
24:31
And, you know, that then engages their critical thinking,
24:33
which is another awesome benefit.
24:37
We want to make sure that, you know,
24:38
we're really going well beyond the, you know,
24:42
just the being careful and like you said,
24:44
helping them to talk through, what is your plan?
24:47
You know, and one of the nice things about,
24:48
about when we say, instead of saying, be careful,
24:51
we say, you know, what's your plan?
24:52
I'm a little nervous that you're, you know,
24:55
where you're stepping right now.
24:57
If they don't have one, that makes them stop and think,
25:00
you know, oh, I need a plan.
25:02
So maybe they're starting to think of one,
25:04
and then we may, we may step in
25:05
and help them think that through.
25:07
Well, that branch is really, really thin or, you know,
25:10
whatever the situation might be.
25:12
But another cool thing about it is that
25:14
we get to see their thinking process.
25:16
And so we might find out through that,
25:19
that they are thinking this through,
25:20
they do have it together.
25:22
And then we can feel a little bit more relaxed about it,
25:24
or we might find out they're not thinking at all.
25:27
And so we need to help that thinking process along
25:30
by asking some, you know, some critical questions,
25:32
then leading questions that can kind of help them
25:34
to figure things out.
25:37
Yeah, and you know, I think be careful probably comes out
25:40
of every parent's mouth at some point.
25:42
Oh yeah.
25:42
But it's one of those phrases
25:44
that doesn't actually provide any, anything.
25:48
You know, there's no information in that phrase.
25:51
And so be careful, be careful of what.
25:53
So, you know, if you expand on it,
25:55
hey, there's, you know, something pokey over there,
25:58
or again, like with the tree,
26:00
I'm worried that branch won't hold you.
26:02
You know, giving them more information,
26:04
just be careful doesn't tell you, you know,
26:07
what you need to know about that given, you know,
26:09
a scenario and what might actually be hazardous.
26:11
Or going back to your stream analogy,
26:14
you know, your stream example.
26:16
You know, I saw you slip a little bit there.
26:18
Remember that sometimes the mossy rocks
26:20
are a little bit slippery,
26:22
or some of those rocks are gonna move
26:24
when you jump on them.
26:25
You know, just bringing their awareness
26:27
and their attention to things.
26:30
For sure.
26:31
And you know, some of these things, you know,
26:33
we talk about trying to mitigate hazards,
26:35
but there are some things
26:36
that are just never gonna be negotiable.
26:38
Absolutely.
26:39
For us, you know, if you are engaging in anything
26:42
with wheels, you have to have a helmet on your head.
26:44
Like that is hard.
26:47
Like there is no negotiating that one ever, you know.
26:50
And so I remember my little niece just got a balance bike
26:55
and she didn't love her helmet.
26:57
And so my sister-in-law did a great job
26:59
of just being like, nope,
27:00
like if you don't have a helmet on,
27:02
you don't even sit on the bike.
27:03
And so, you know, she was only just two years old.
27:05
And so she started her whole relationship with, you know,
27:09
bikes and toys with wheels with the understanding
27:11
that helmet goes on her head before she gets on a bike.
27:14
And so, you know, being able to establish that really early,
27:17
you know, you're not trying to negotiate it down the road
27:19
when they've already gotten used
27:20
to biking around without one.
27:23
We always wanna put those safety measures in place,
27:26
those non-negotiables in place ahead of time.
27:29
And you know, if you can't or won't do the safety piece,
27:33
we just don't do it.
27:34
It's just that simple.
27:34
And you know, if they're fussing about it, then it's okay.
27:38
We don't have to do this right now.
27:40
You know, you can do it another time.
27:42
But when you're ready, the helmet goes on your head
27:44
or the knee pads go on or, you know, whatever the safety,
27:47
the safety piece is.
27:48
Yeah, and like what I've loved watching
27:50
with H in skate is, you know,
27:52
even now he's been skating for two and a half years
27:54
and he's relatively skilled at this point.
27:56
And still every single time he has skate class,
27:59
the first thing they do is practice falling.
28:02
And so, you know, we see, you know,
28:04
these skills build over time
28:06
and sometimes you still take it back to the basics
28:08
to ensure safety.
28:10
And, you know, he went down a 28 foot ramp this summer
28:14
and he didn't land it, but he knew exactly how to fall
28:17
so that, you know, he was still safe.
28:19
He popped right back up.
28:20
And-
28:21
The landing actually just looked like part of it
28:24
cause he just kind of went on his knees
28:25
and just slid on down the row.
28:27
He knows exactly what to do.
28:28
Yeah.
28:29
Yeah.
28:30
Makes a huge difference.
28:33
Well on that, thinking about that, you know,
28:35
all of the skill building that came along
28:38
and, you know, how often he tried and failed
28:41
and, you know, all of those pieces in there,
28:45
you know, that was a huge celebration
28:46
when he accomplished that one.
28:50
But there was a lot of pieces along the way.
28:53
Yeah, and like one of the things that, you know,
28:55
we've tried really hard to make a point of
28:56
is to celebrate the effort
28:58
rather than necessarily the end result.
29:00
Like, absolutely, we're gonna like celebrate him
29:02
when he accomplishes new skills.
29:04
But, you know, some of these things
29:07
he's been building on for literally two and a half years.
29:09
And so if we only celebrate that final moment
29:12
where he lands something,
29:14
we kind of lose all of the work that went into it.
29:18
And so, you know, we try and make a point like,
29:19
dude, I saw how hard you were working class today.
29:22
Like, I'm really proud of you
29:23
for the effort that you put in.
29:25
And maybe he didn't do anything new this week,
29:27
but he worked his little hiney off.
29:30
And so, you know, we wanna make sure
29:32
that we're acknowledging that work too,
29:33
even when it's not, you know,
29:35
going down a 28 foot ramp for the first time.
29:37
Right.
29:38
Well, and it's all about providing that encouragement.
29:42
And, you know, the word courage is in the word encouragement.
29:46
And so, you know, when we're providing that encouragement,
29:48
not just that, just not that praise for the final moment,
29:53
woohoo, you did it.
29:54
But, and yeah,
29:55
there definitely needs to be some woohoo's you did it.
29:57
But we're encouraging along the way,
29:59
we help provide that courage in them
30:01
and that confidence to, you know, to do new things.
30:05
So that's really, that's really important
30:08
that we're really focusing on the effort
30:11
as well as, you know, the final woohoo
30:14
when they get something.
30:15
And he just had another big accomplishment.
30:19
I got to see when,
30:22
cause he's a big boogie boarder too.
30:25
And he did his first 360.
30:28
So that was a big, a biggie as well.
30:31
And that was so fun for me.
30:32
Like, not only did I get it on video,
30:34
which was amazing cause it was his first one,
30:37
but he like fist in the air was, you know,
30:41
so excited for himself.
30:43
Right.
30:44
You know, this is something that he's been working on
30:45
for months now and he finally did it.
30:48
And yeah, just watching him like.
30:51
That confidence, that sense of self.
30:54
It was so fun to get to see, you know,
30:56
and he did look right up at me after he landed it
30:59
and what, you know,
31:00
my acknowledgement of his accomplishment as well.
31:02
But you saw initially it was very, very much like
31:05
his own self sense of pride.
31:08
Right.
31:09
And, you know.
31:09
And that there's so,
31:10
that is such an important piece to have, you know,
31:13
to have that inside them, you know,
31:15
for kids to gain that sense of themselves
31:17
and their ability of what they can do.
31:20
You know, we also see a lot of frustration,
31:23
you know, a lot of times with kids
31:24
when they're gaining a new skill.
31:26
You kind of talked about that a little bit
31:28
with H getting frustrated, trying something.
31:32
And we can really support that, you know,
31:34
when he's like, especially when a child,
31:36
if they're not putting in the effort, you know,
31:38
we can provide that encouragement
31:40
and then in fact the courage.
31:42
But we can also, you know, when we get that,
31:44
I can't do it.
31:46
We want to add one simple word, yet.
31:49
Can't do it yet.
31:50
And so they gain that growth mindset.
31:53
And this is a great thing to use for anything
31:55
when kids are learning something new
31:56
and feel like they can't do it,
31:58
is to just add that simple yet into it.
32:01
You can't do it yet, but you know, you will.
32:05
Yeah.
32:06
That's, you know, a really big one.
32:09
And, you know, we've definitely used it over the years,
32:12
you know, as like I was saying, you know,
32:14
him getting frustrated and, you know,
32:16
then it starts to get internalized
32:18
and he knows now that it's just a yet.
32:22
You know, he'll get there eventually if he puts the work in,
32:24
which is such an important lesson to learn.
32:27
Yeah.
32:28
For kids to know that if they just keep working at it,
32:31
they'll get it instead of feeling like,
32:32
oh, I just can't, I'm not good enough.
32:35
But we build that resiliency factor
32:37
and keeping trying that persistence and so forth.
32:41
You know, kids really have this innate drive
32:43
to use their bodies and improve their skills.
32:47
I mean, think about a little tiny person
32:49
just learning to walk, they're falling over constantly.
32:52
And, you know, they're not crying about it.
32:55
They're, you know, they're not getting,
32:57
they're generally not getting frustrated.
32:59
They can pull themselves up and just keep going.
33:02
It's kind of, you know, like that.
33:03
They, you know, they just keep doing it whatever,
33:06
when, you know, whenever they have the opportunity,
33:09
you know, if there's something to pull themselves up on,
33:11
they're doing it.
33:12
And I remember, you know, thinking about that later
33:16
when H was just a little guy,
33:19
kind of watching that process, you know, in other skills,
33:23
he was learning to do the hand over hand
33:25
on the crossover bars.
33:27
You know, it's like a ladder,
33:28
ladder that you're, you know, one hand after the other.
33:32
And he would start it off.
33:34
He'd climb up there and start it off.
33:36
And he'd get maybe two rungs.
33:37
And then, you know, he didn't have the grip strength yet
33:39
and he'd fall.
33:40
He'd get up and he'd try it again.
33:42
And he'd do, you know, do a little bit more.
33:45
And he did that, you know, for a little while.
33:47
And then kind of was just like done.
33:49
And he went and kind of just like did a rotation
33:51
around the playground doing other things.
33:53
And then he came back and he tried it again,
33:55
got a little bit further, finally was like, okay,
33:57
and went and did another loop around the playground
34:00
doing other things.
34:00
And this went on, you know, three or four times
34:03
until he did it.
34:04
He made it all the way across.
34:06
And it was just this, he just,
34:08
it was just this innate drive to keep going.
34:11
And he just kept, he just kept at it.
34:15
It was really very fascinating to watch.
34:17
Well, and I think that highlights too,
34:20
like how self-directed skill building, you know,
34:23
having it be self-directed can be really important.
34:26
And, you know, if somebody had offered to hold him
34:29
so that he could get across,
34:31
he doesn't develop the same skill.
34:33
And, you know, if somebody is standing right there,
34:35
even, you know, trying to be encouraging,
34:38
he does not as in his own little head about it.
34:40
And so I think, you know,
34:42
that just really highlights how important sometimes it is
34:44
for us to just step back and watch.
34:46
Step back, yes.
34:47
And just let it happen.
34:48
Yeah, he was fine because I could have spotted him,
34:50
but he didn't need it.
34:52
I mean, sometimes, you know,
34:53
and that's another know your own kid.
34:55
Because some kids, you know,
34:56
they would do better if you were spotting him.
34:59
That wasn't the case for him.
35:00
He just needed to,
35:03
he hadn't started it with me there anyway.
35:05
So it was his, it was his.
35:08
And I needed to let it be his
35:09
and not be interfering with,
35:11
oh, well do this, oh, you know,
35:13
or be careful or running over to start
35:16
to try to hold on to him in case he fell.
35:20
Yeah.
35:20
It was truly his.
35:21
It is, again, such a fine line
35:23
because there are times where we do have to hop in
35:25
and be like, you know, again, what's your plan?
35:27
Right.
35:27
But when we can't, you know,
35:29
and absolutely that is so dependent on specific children
35:33
and, you know, where they are developmentally,
35:36
where they are, you know, their own temperament,
35:39
and H, if you tried to help him on the bars
35:40
when he was tiny, he would get so frustrated.
35:42
Yeah, that would frustrate him more.
35:44
He gets so mad.
35:49
Well, we, you know, some kids, you know,
35:51
some kids are more timid or more cautious
35:54
and we really have to kind of, you know,
35:56
again, accept who they are.
35:57
I mean, you know, H was never like just run crazy.
36:03
You know, he would do things a little at a time,
36:05
but some kids, you know,
36:07
they just want to step back and they just want to watch.
36:10
And so we kind of have to assess why, you know,
36:13
I mean, first we had to look at ourselves, you know,
36:15
did we contribute?
36:16
Are we contributing to that fear that, you know,
36:19
some kind of fear or risk aversion, you know,
36:22
by our own concern, or is it, you know,
36:25
just a part of their personality?
36:27
You know, I know like your brother,
36:30
he wasn't necessarily cautious or, you know,
36:33
timid or anything,
36:34
but he was a little bit of a perfectionist.
36:36
So he didn't want to really get in there
36:39
and try something hard like that
36:41
until he knew he could do it.
36:43
So he had more of a tendency to step,
36:45
stand back and watch, or, you know,
36:47
just to wait until he thought he really could do it,
36:50
you know, before he would want to.
36:52
So, you know, we also kind of have to think about,
36:54
you know, who wants it?
36:55
Is it, you know, are they ready for it?
36:57
Do they want it?
36:58
Or is it your desire, you know, to do some, you know,
37:01
for them to be able to do this?
37:03
Well, I remember when H was little
37:05
and he got his first pedal bike.
37:08
He had been cruising around on a balance bike for a while
37:11
and he was totally ready for pedals.
37:13
And we were so stoked
37:14
and his grandparents got him a new pedal bike
37:16
and everybody was all excited to watch him ride it.
37:19
And he could care less.
37:21
Like he could move on his balance bike
37:25
and the pedal bike that slowed him down
37:27
and he wanted nothing to do with it.
37:28
And so it took, I don't know, like a year
37:31
for him to make the shift.
37:33
And in the meantime, we all have to, you know,
37:34
sit there on our hands and not gripe at him
37:38
because it was totally, you know,
37:40
a parent and grandparent directed, you know,
37:43
want of, you know, we got him this new bike.
37:45
He should be riding it.
37:47
And, you know, he got there eventually,
37:49
absolutely on his own, you know, timeframe.
37:52
Cause it was very much-
37:53
And he was developmentally ready for it.
37:54
He just didn't, it just wasn't his desire yet.
37:58
No, he went so fast on his little bike.
38:00
Yes.
38:01
That was where his focus was.
38:03
Yeah, he could cruise for sure.
38:06
But you know, some kids truly are risk adverse.
38:10
And, you know, so we want to, you know,
38:11
make sure we're not contributing in that,
38:13
but we can also help them find ways
38:16
to try new, more difficult things.
38:19
You know, one way to do that
38:21
is to kind of create smaller challenges
38:23
or take a bigger challenge
38:25
and break it down into smaller steps.
38:28
We can do it together, you know,
38:29
letting them know I'm right here, you know,
38:31
I'm here with you.
38:33
Again, you know, we can do it together
38:34
as long as we're not putting them in a position
38:37
that they're not ready for, they don't want.
38:40
But, you know, like if we're going to make a big jump,
38:42
we could both jump at the same time
38:44
or, you know, something like that.
38:45
Or if they're going down a slide, it could be, you know,
38:48
okay, I'll stand right here while you go up the,
38:50
you know, while you go up the ladder
38:51
and I'll meet you at the bottom.
38:53
You know, so that that kind of,
38:55
again, we're providing that encouragement
38:57
so that they have that.
39:00
You kind of already talked about there being,
39:02
you know, a lot of different ways that,
39:05
a lot of different types of risks that we can take.
39:08
So thinking about that again, you know,
39:09
if they're not into one kind of thing,
39:12
then, you know, find other ways
39:13
that they can challenge themselves,
39:15
that they can develop, you know, develop new skills
39:17
and new things to do to find out about their,
39:21
to expand their motor skills and body awareness.
39:25
Yeah, I mean, I don't know how many times
39:27
I have poked myself with a needle.
39:29
I definitely call that risky play.
39:32
If you're trying to learn how to sew,
39:34
you are going to poke yourself a couple of times,
39:36
but you also learn how much force it takes
39:39
to push a needle through a given piece of fabric.
39:42
And, you know, there's sensory input involved in that.
39:45
And so, yeah, it doesn't have to be, you know,
39:46
climbing to the top of something or jumping the farthest,
39:49
you know, something really big.
39:50
It can be, you know, cutting carrots.
39:52
It can be sewing.
39:53
It can be anything like that.
39:55
Or again, roasting a marshmallow,
39:56
or walking in a stream.
39:59
Like those are, you know, everything qualifies.
40:01
Yeah, we want to think a little bit about, you know,
40:05
what it means when somebody, when a child gets hurt,
40:07
like poking yourself with a needle.
40:09
Yeah, that's not ideal.
40:10
And yes, they're going to cry.
40:11
It's not that, it's not the end of the world.
40:14
That's not, it's not a serious harm.
40:16
I'm still here.
40:17
I survived.
40:19
Oh, you were, you were always worse with the little,
40:22
the little owies than the big owies, like paper cuts.
40:27
But, so, you know, thinking about,
40:30
okay, what's the worst case scenario?
40:31
If they're going to break bones or get a head injury,
40:35
I mean, that is absolutely, no.
40:38
That is not the kind of risk we're talking about at all.
40:41
But if, you know, if it's just a little poke,
40:44
or just a, you know, a little bit of road burn when we,
40:48
you know, because we're running too fast and we fell,
40:51
that's part, it's really part of childhood.
40:53
Yeah.
40:55
Well, and, you know,
40:57
I think that we can also look at it, you know,
40:59
I feel like my sense of, you know, risk,
41:04
averseness or, you know, being comfortable with risk
41:06
has grown with my kiddo.
41:08
And so, you know, if you can start really small
41:11
when they're, when they're really small
41:12
and then let it build over time.
41:15
The other part of that is that by allowing kids
41:18
to take risks and learn these kinds of lessons and skills
41:21
when they're small, the consequences are small too.
41:25
Yeah.
41:25
Whereas, you know, as they grow, risks can get bigger
41:29
and the consequences can get bigger.
41:31
And so if we can, you know.
41:35
Think of a teenager behind the wheels of a car.
41:37
Right, and so we wanna, you know, learn these lessons
41:40
when they're not behind the wheel of a car,
41:42
when they're on a bike or, you know.
41:45
And developing that ability to assess risk,
41:49
critical thinking skills, think things through
41:51
before, you know, they enter those years of the teenage brain
41:55
that is a very kind of risky brain, you know.
41:58
Where they do tend to take unnecessary risks
42:01
a little bit more.
42:02
We wanna have had a lot of practice with risk assessment
42:06
and thinking things through before they get there.
42:09
Yes, absolutely.
42:11
We want it to be routine and already built in.
42:14
When the hormones wipe out the thinking,
42:16
they've still got a little bit of it
42:18
tucked away in their brain.
42:20
So yeah, just thinking about it as, you know,
42:22
teaching skills, providing opportunities,
42:25
you know, breaking things down into smaller pieces
42:26
so that they, you know, if necessary,
42:28
so that they can then accomplish a bigger feat.
42:31
You know, absolutely, don't listen to this podcast
42:34
and then go, you know, take your kid out
42:36
to climb a big old tree.
42:39
You know, it is a progression.
42:40
We wanna start small.
42:42
We wanna start when they're, you know,
42:44
well, start where you are.
42:46
But, you know, allowing that opportunity
42:49
for them to keep growing and trying new things.
42:53
I mean, again, to take it back to agent skateboarding,
42:56
there is such an amazing progression
42:59
that I've gotten to watch over the last couple of years
43:02
of, you know, you start by just learning to push
43:05
and, you know, put your foot on the board
43:07
and, you know, move yourself forward.
43:09
And then it's the teeny tiny ramps
43:12
and you learn to, you know, go down these little ramps
43:15
and move across, you know.
43:17
And then you get to, you know, bigger, more intense skills
43:20
and bigger ramps.
43:22
And then the next thing you know,
43:23
your mom's watching you go down a 28 foot mini mega.
43:27
Which is wild.
43:27
And all along the way, practicing how to fall,
43:29
how to be safe, wearing helmets,
43:32
wearing, you know, wearing the pads that are needed
43:34
for whatever the skill is.
43:36
So, you know, both the progression
43:38
and putting those safety measures in place.
43:42
And one of the other amazing things is,
43:45
something that I didn't know about skateboarding
43:47
until I watched Age,
43:49
is the spatial awareness that's required.
43:53
Big time.
43:53
And, you know, if you're in a skate park
43:54
with a bunch of other skaters,
43:56
you can't crash into each other.
43:58
You have to know where other people are in space.
44:00
And so, you know, just another example of these things,
44:03
you know, we're focused on them, you know,
44:05
doing this particular skill and, you know,
44:08
there's so much going on in the background
44:10
and it's so much bigger than just that individual thing
44:13
that they're doing.
44:14
And there's, you know, it's always amazing
44:16
all of these built-in lessons that are also involved.
44:19
Just a huge, huge developmental growth
44:23
that takes place with allowing those pieces.
44:26
And again, we said before, it's not just physical,
44:29
you know, it's brain building.
44:30
And so that impacts all the different aspects
44:34
of development.
44:36
I remember seeing a Facebook post of a little girl,
44:40
little tiny, little tiny thing,
44:41
up on this big, big, huge rock.
44:44
And there were lots and lots of comments, of course,
44:46
in the, you know, on the post about,
44:48
oh, how, you know, terrible parents letting, you know,
44:51
this little tiny person be up the rock.
44:53
And I actually, you know, reposted it
44:56
because I thought it was great.
44:57
But, you know, the thing about it is,
45:01
if this little girl was just,
45:03
her parent just hoisted her up on this rock
45:05
and then walked away, absolutely terrible parent.
45:09
But this probably wasn't her first rodeo.
45:12
You know, I mean, looking at the picture,
45:14
she looked, she had her body,
45:15
the way her body was positioned,
45:16
she knew what she was doing.
45:18
She knew how to climb.
45:19
And chances are, you know,
45:20
mom and dad were very close by, ready, you know, if need be.
45:24
So, you know, it's just a matter of, again,
45:27
assessing the whole situation, looking at the big picture.
45:30
And, you know, we want to consider
45:32
what is the real risk here.
45:34
And it's, you know, if we've put things in place,
45:37
if we've given our kids the time to develop those skills,
45:41
then, you know, we're actually making them safer
45:43
when they have that full body awareness,
45:46
they have those thinking skills.
45:48
You know, it's not having that body awareness.
45:50
It's not knowing your own self and your capabilities
45:53
that creates more of a real risk.
45:57
Yeah, and, you know, if we have kids that do spend,
46:00
you know, the majority of their time
46:02
just sitting inside with a screen,
46:05
they're not getting that.
46:08
And so that is, you know,
46:09
then when they do go out in the world,
46:11
they don't have those skills.
46:12
They haven't developed, you know, that awareness,
46:15
those, you know, strength or whatever they need
46:18
to, you know, exist in the world.
46:21
Right, and they may see somebody else doing something
46:24
and think, oh, well, I can do that too.
46:25
But they've never really, you know, had that opportunity.
46:27
So they're not as safe trying to do that.
46:30
I mean, sometimes when kids are watching older peers,
46:33
they may try to copy and that can be,
46:35
that can create, you know, that can create more risk
46:37
or, you know, sometimes with older kids with being dared.
46:40
But when they have the opportunity to know their body
46:43
and what they can do,
46:44
they're less likely to just go along
46:46
with copying somebody else or going along with a dare
46:50
if they're really aware of their own body
46:53
and what it, you know, what they can do.
46:57
Yeah, and I think, you know,
46:58
we can be aware of their bodies
47:00
and what they're capable of as well.
47:03
And, you know, we talk about behavior as communication.
47:07
And so if you do have a kiddo that is running up
47:09
and down the aisles of the grocery store,
47:11
that might be a little hint that they need to run.
47:14
Yes.
47:15
So put them, you know, put them in a safe, you know,
47:18
place where that's an acceptable outlet.
47:20
You know, if they, you know,
47:23
my child would literally climb the doorframe.
47:27
He climbed the banister.
47:28
I have pictures.
47:29
Like he was always climbing the back of the couch,
47:32
like literally anything.
47:34
And so we ended up with those rock wall holds
47:37
on a tree in our front yard because it, you know,
47:40
then we could say, hey, this is the acceptable place
47:42
for you to engage in such behavior
47:45
because climbing my doorframe
47:46
is probably not the best plan.
47:49
Yeah, if your kid is climbing the bookshelf, number one,
47:52
make sure that you've got those safety clamps
47:54
on your bookshelf.
47:56
It's gotta be anchored.
47:57
It's anchored down.
47:58
But also, you know, it's not just, no, don't climb there,
48:02
but they need to climb.
48:03
Where can you climb safely?
48:04
Find a place, find a, you know,
48:06
find a safe, acceptable way for them to climb.
48:10
They're like, you know, they're like puppies.
48:11
We've gotta keep them running
48:13
to get them, to keep them out of trouble.
48:16
Absolutely.
48:16
That's one of my favorite analogies.
48:20
When age was really small,
48:22
I would get complimented from time to time
48:24
about what an awesome mom I was
48:26
because we were always on adventures
48:28
and I always had to tell people,
48:30
it's not that I'm an awesome mom.
48:32
It's a survival mechanism
48:35
because if that child was stuck inside,
48:38
he was literally going to climb the walls.
48:40
And so we did, we were out, you know,
48:41
in the world pretty consistently
48:43
because that's what he needed.
48:45
You know, his behavior very clearly communicated
48:48
that he needed to be able to move his body.
48:50
And so, you know, that's what we did.
48:54
And so, you know, following whatever messages
48:58
that they're giving is, you know, is really important.
49:01
And really, you know, that time in nature for,
49:04
especially for a very active little person,
49:06
all of us, you know, need that.
49:08
But that time in nature provides so many opportunities
49:11
for real, you know, for real play, risky play.
49:15
And, you know, it really kind of just feeds the spirit
49:17
and it really also really helps smooth
49:20
some of those behaviors.
49:24
Absolutely.
49:24
You know, I think our job is to just, you know,
49:29
review the risks that we're allowing our child's,
49:32
you know, our children to take
49:33
and making sure that they're reasonable.
49:35
And then, you know, as much as we can,
49:37
stepping back and just letting them exist in the world
49:39
in whatever way that they want to show up.
49:42
Right, absolutely.
49:43
Well, as we come tune in today,
49:45
let's leave, we will leave you with our three tips.
49:48
So our first tip is first off, check yourself.
49:52
Because remember, your reactions, your reactions matter.
49:55
So whether it be your own fear factor
49:58
and how, you know, how comfortable you are
50:00
with varying levels of risk with your child,
50:03
you know, having that awareness,
50:05
you know, what can you allow them to do
50:08
without, you know, completely melting down.
50:10
And, you know, how do you respond when your child falls
50:14
or there's a little owie and making sure,
50:16
you know, we keep that, we keep the calm,
50:18
we keep our cool so that they don't,
50:20
it doesn't increase their fear
50:22
and or their concern in doing these big kind of things.
50:27
So don't let your face be what determines
50:29
if it hurts or not.
50:31
And then number two, start small and start early.
50:34
You know, give kids opportunities to use their bodies,
50:37
to challenge themselves, to take those reasonable risks
50:40
and try new things, to see what their bodies can do
50:43
and gain all those various skills that come from,
50:48
you know, being able to have those kinds of opportunities
50:51
to try, you know, try challenges and so forth.
50:55
And then again, providing those opportunities
50:57
for whether it be climbing, using knives,
51:00
using tools, learning to sew, you know,
51:03
provide opportunities for those reasonable risks
51:06
for them to try.
51:09
I love that.
51:10
So for our try this,
51:12
I really want to encourage you to think about language
51:15
and not default to be careful.
51:18
You know, as much as you can use phrases
51:20
like what's your plan or did you notice,
51:23
you know, if a child says something,
51:25
you know, add and get to it.
51:27
I can't do it, you can't do it yet.
51:30
And, you know, helping, you know,
51:32
encourage them with a growth mindset to just keep trying.
51:36
And, you know, that you help provide their courage
51:39
by encouraging their, you know, their new skills
51:41
and their new little adventures.
51:45
So this is our seventh podcast.
51:48
And one thing we'd love to do is to address your questions.
51:52
You know, we've been trying to come up with topics
51:53
and different ideas of things to talk about.
51:55
But if there's something specific that you as a parent
51:58
are, you know, challenged by or struggling with,
52:01
you can absolutely send us an email
52:02
at info at the guiding mindset.com.
52:06
Is that right, mom?
52:07
That's right.
52:08
Info at the guiding mindset.com.
52:10
We'd love to hear from you and we'd love your questions.
52:14
Absolutely.
52:16
So send us an email and until next time.