Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 279. Turning the Page: Courtney Dauwalter On Embracing the Pain Cave & Lessons From Ultra-Marathon Running

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279. Turning the Page: Courtney Dauwalter On Embracing the Pain Cave & Lessons From Ultra-Marathon Running · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Go after the big, scary ideas that sound absurd. If
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: they make you feel a little uncomfortable, maybe that's the
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: one you go for.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: What's going on, everybody, Emily Abodi. Here, You are listening
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: to a brand new season of Hurdle.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Season sixteen. This is Insanity.
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  Speaker 2: Hurdle's a wellness focused podcast where I talk to inspirational
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: people about everything from their highest ties and toughest moments
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: to essential tips on how to live a healthier, happier,
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  Speaker 2: more motivated life. We all go through our fair share
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: of hurdles. My goal through these discussions is to empower
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: you to better navigate yours and.
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  Speaker 3: Move with intention so that you can stride towards.
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  Speaker 2: Your own big potential and of course have some fun
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: along the way. I hope you loved that little remix
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: on the intro that you have come to know and
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: love listen because I have been. I have been hearing
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: you out on all the things that you want from Hurdle,
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: and I am here to tell you that in season sixteen,
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  Speaker 2: and if you want to hear about a certain person
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  Speaker 2: or a certain topic on the show going forward, email
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: us over at Hello at hurdle dot us. This year,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: it's no exception, we are starting things off with a
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  Speaker 2: crowd favorite, the Turning the Page series That's Right Season
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  Speaker 2: sixteen kicking off with our most listened to episode series
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  Speaker 2: of the year for turning the page. To those who
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  Speaker 2: may not remember or those that are new hurdlers, welcome.
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  Speaker 3: Happy to have you.
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  Speaker 2: I sit back down with some of your favorite guests
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  Speaker 2: to chat about the lessons they're bringing with them from
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  Speaker 2: the past three sixty five as well as their feedback
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  Speaker 2: on what worked, what didn't work, what they're excited about
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  Speaker 2: for the year to come, and other important lessons that
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: have helped them shape, reframe, adjust their perspective, and come
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  Speaker 2: out on top despite whatever hurdles they've experienced. To kick
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  Speaker 2: things off. I am sitting down with the one and
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  Speaker 2: only Courtney to Walter. She had an epic twenty twenty
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  Speaker 2: three when she became the first ever endurance athlete to
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  Speaker 2: win Western States one hundred, hard Rock one hundred and
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  Speaker 2: Ultra Trail DeMont Blanc three iconic.
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  Speaker 3: That is an understatement, one.
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  Speaker 2: Hundred mile races in the same year. I am so
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  Speaker 2: excited for this series. I am so excited for this
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  Speaker 2: relaunch of Hurdle for season sixteen.
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  Speaker 3: To all of you, thank you so so much.
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  Speaker 2: Just feels like I can't say this enough for keeping
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: up with me, for making past six years of content
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: creation truly fly by now ways to support. If you're
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: not yet subscribed to the weekly Hurdle newsletter, do that
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: the links in the show notes. If you are not
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: yet following Hurdle Podcast on Instagram at Hurdle Podcast, do that.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: I'm over at Emily Abadi. I'd love to see you there.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: And we're also about to get really active in the
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Secret hurdlerspacebook group. So links to all of these things
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: are in the show notes. Show you support for the
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: show and let's get this all started with that.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: Let's get to hurdling.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Today, I am sitting down with the One, the Only,
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  Speaker 2: Courtney de Walter.
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  Speaker 3: How are we doing today, Courtney?
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  Speaker 1: I'm great. How are you?
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  Speaker 3: I'm so good.
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  Speaker 2: I These episodes honestly make me so happy because I
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  Speaker 2: feel like I'm catching up with an old friend.
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  Speaker 3: So I'm so excited to sit back down with you.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's just catch up and chat. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So, like, what's going on in your life right now?
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  Speaker 1: Not much. It's I live in Leadville, Colorado, which is
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  Speaker 1: very much in the mountains, so we are in winter now,
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  Speaker 1: like it's snowy everywhere, the roads are covered, the trails
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  Speaker 1: are covered. It feels like a beautiful winter wonderland.
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  Speaker 2: A beautiful winter wonderland and not much going on because
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  Speaker 2: you've done absolutely nothing this year, so you deserve to
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  Speaker 2: continue to do nothing, right.
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  Speaker 1: I have definitely enjoyed some off time end this down
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  Speaker 1: season for sure.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, talk to us about how your body's feeling now
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  Speaker 2: that you've had some more time to recover from a
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  Speaker 2: serious effort of a twenty twenty three.
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  Speaker 1: My body and my brain both feel fantastic again. But
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  Speaker 1: immediately after my last race at the start of September,
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  Speaker 1: I was a wreck for like a few weeks, I
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  Speaker 1: melted into the couch. I didn't move very much at all,
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  Speaker 1: And then even after that, it took some time to
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  Speaker 1: feel normal again and to feel like the same uh
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  Speaker 1: pep in my step, both in my legs and in
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  Speaker 1: my brain to get back out there.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's totally understandable as someone who has done nothing
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  Speaker 2: of the sort of what you've done, but can relate
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  Speaker 2: to a build up to a really big moment. It
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  Speaker 2: is commonplace to have that posts large exciting thing down
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  Speaker 2: be and for you to have so many back to
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  Speaker 2: back big moments and then finally physically and mentally sit still.
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  Speaker 3: Talk to me about how that really felt for you.
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  Speaker 1: It almost felt like I crossed the finish line of
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  Speaker 1: UTMB and it was like the balloon could deflate finally,
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  Speaker 1: Like it had been like holding on for me for
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  Speaker 1: you know, getting through all of these races, getting through
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  Speaker 1: the summer, continuing to train and race. It kept holding on,
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  Speaker 1: which I'm so thankful for. But then when I crossed
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  Speaker 1: that last finish line, it's like all of it could release,
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  Speaker 1: and I honestly deflated for a little bit.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, again, so understandable.
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  Speaker 2: In that deflate, it sounds like it was a relief,
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  Speaker 2: but also after a little while, did any of those
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  Speaker 2: post race blues set in for you?
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  Speaker 1: I didn't really get the post race blues, and I
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: don't often, I think because we're very eyes forward people.
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  Speaker 1: We like the thing happened, you know, we'll celebrate whatever
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  Speaker 1: way it went, just like trying it out and either
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  Speaker 1: getting to a finish line or not. But then we
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  Speaker 1: really quickly start looking towards the next thing usually, and
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  Speaker 1: so my fall was definitely not like you know, reliving
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  Speaker 1: or missing the summer months. It was for sure looking
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  Speaker 1: forward to like, Okay, what can we take from this,
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  Speaker 1: what should we try? What's interesting? And then what adventures
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  Speaker 1: can we just do in the here and now that
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  Speaker 1: are fun like off season things.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a great perspective and super useful for
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  Speaker 2: someone who wants to be this kind of person.
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  Speaker 3: What advice do you have for them?
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  Speaker 1: I'll explain this, I guess, but I think that it's
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  Speaker 1: just running. So like however it went, you know, it
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  Speaker 1: was just one race, whether it went well or not well,
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  Speaker 1: and it doesn't define who we are. We get to,
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  Speaker 1: you know, shape our lives and our adventures however we want,
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  Speaker 1: and so in order to do that. We should definitely
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  Speaker 1: like learn from what's happened, but mostly be like plotting
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  Speaker 1: and scheming for how we're going to get to the
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  Speaker 1: next thing.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that forward thinking mindset is really valuable and both
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  Speaker 2: sides of the coin I can sympathize with, right because
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  Speaker 2: even though it's just in this case running, it's like
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  Speaker 2: so much effort and time goes into this one moment
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  Speaker 2: that it's natural when it's all done at least for
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  Speaker 2: this moment in time to be like, well, what am
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  Speaker 2: I supposed to do now?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally and being proud of you know, that time
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  Speaker 1: and that effort is huge, and celebrating it regardless of results.
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  Speaker 1: You know, you still put in the time, You still
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  Speaker 1: put in the effort, You still cared about this thing deeply.
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  Speaker 1: So I'm not saying like we shouldn't celebrate the things
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  Speaker 1: that happen, but I don't think we need to like
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  Speaker 1: stay in them. Yeah, we can keep walking forward with
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  Speaker 1: that now as part of our character of our experiences
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  Speaker 1: of ourselves.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, like the past informs who you are and helps
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  Speaker 2: you to move forward rather than defines you. Because that perspective,
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  Speaker 2: then in turn, if maybe something didn't go how you
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  Speaker 2: had hoped you then have the opportunity to learn from it.
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  Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean that you quote unquote failed or
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: whatever the case may be, exactly for sure. So we're
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: here today, not only we're here today to do a
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: little bit of reflection. Like I said, big year for you, court,
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  Speaker 2: so happy that we're able to recap together. If you
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: had to choose a theme for this year, what would
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  Speaker 2: yours be?
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  Speaker 1: My theme for twenty twenty three was definitely chase You're crazy.
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  Speaker 1: Go after the big, scary ideas that sound absurd. If
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: they make you feel a little uncomfortable, maybe that's the
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: one you go for.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Did you ever, even let's say a year, two year,
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  Speaker 2: three years ago, think that a year like twenty twenty
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  Speaker 2: three would be in the cards for you?
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  Speaker 1: No, No, I'm I'm so thankful for my body. I'm
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  Speaker 1: so thankful that you know all of the race entries
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  Speaker 1: and I got to the start lines of all of them,
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  Speaker 1: and also still love the training for all of it.
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  Speaker 1: None of that I take for granted. Every single day
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I think my feet, whether that's in my head or
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: out loud, but feeling a lot of gratitude.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Audibly talking to the big toe I get it. Sometimes
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  Speaker 2: I have to do that too. It's fine, you know,
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  Speaker 2: with that gratitude for chasing your crazy, I'm sure that
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: there are people that have an opinion on your crazy.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: How do you navigate that unsolicited feedback?
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: I mean people, everyone is allowed to have opinions. I
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: have no problems with that. It's what you value as
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: a person like and what people you surround yourself with.
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  Speaker 1: And then you know what messaging you tell yourself or
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: you here in you know those moments where you need
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: to hear when you need to hear it. I guess
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: I think it's important who we surround ourselves with.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Oh my God, please, And for you such an epic
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: opportunity this year to surround yourself with your family for
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: the first time out in Shamani. How was that for
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  Speaker 2: you to be able to pull your family into the men,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: to combine your personal with your professional the best?
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: I mean those. That's what I do all of this
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: for is to make the memories with the people along
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: the way, so that you know, in eighty years we're
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: sitting on rocking chairs like cheersing the memories that we
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: made and those moments shared. It was really cool. My
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: parents have crued me at some races, but had never
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: been to Shamani, which is like a whole scene. It's
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: a huge gathering of trail running mountain running like endurance fanatics,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: so it's super cool. And then I have two brothers,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: and one of my brothers and his wife were able
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: to make a very last minute trip because I hadn't
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: decided on UTMB until early August basically, so they all
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: shifted their lives around to just be part of it
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  Speaker 1: and come out and make memories together.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: What was the tipping point for you to make that decision.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: I finished hard Rock in mid July, and I was really,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: really really tired and that race like I felt destroyed
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: during it. But about two weeks after hard Rock, I
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: went out for just a little forty five minute shakeout jog,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: and on that shakeout jog, I didn't feel like complete trash.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I only felt like sort of garbage, like bad. Still
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: I didn't feel fresh, but I was like, man, if
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I feel already like okay and there's still time, one
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: more hundred in the summer would be like the perfect
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: amount of crazy. So it felt like I should just
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: go for it then and see what happens, and I had,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: you know, no idea what that would look like, but
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I was all in on just trying to see.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm sitting here giggling because I went
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: on one forty five minute run where I didn't feel
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: like absolute garbage, and I thought to myself, I should
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: go roun one hundred miles Like that's exactly how your
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: brain works. And I love that kind of quote unquote
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: crazy for you, because this a testament to the types
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: of challenges that you like to go after. On the
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: heels of that, I'm gonna ask you what was your
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: proudest moment of the year.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: It could probably be like in all my races, I
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: don't know that I fell very many times. That feels
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: like a big accomplishment. I often fall. I usually like
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: am battered and bruised after a long race, just from
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: fighting with the rocks along the course. But yeah, this
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: year I stayed on my feet more often than not.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I think, also just being all in on this challenge
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: this summer for the fun of it. Like my mentality
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: was one hundred percent. Finish the races was the goal.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Have some fun with this and just see what's possible
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: because we don't know. I don't know, you know, and
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: I think I feel proud of like that mindset all summer.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: It kept me like healthy and feeling fresh and energized
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: about the challenge ahead because it was just a super
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: fun experiment for myself.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: Basically, what else is fun for you besides trail running?
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Just like in life? You mean?
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean just in life.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Like I'm curious to see, like, how why this definition
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: goes for Courtney Di Walter.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, because the pain gave is very different.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: It's like a whole different type of fun.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very different than yard games with a beer in
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: hand or.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Oh we love a yard game? Are you a ladder
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: golf yard game girly? Or are you like h corn
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: hoole yard game?
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Girl? I love cornhole? But we call it bags bags?
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Is this like a East coast versus not East Coast thing?
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Bags might be a Minnesota thing? Okay, I guess we
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: just want to pronounce our a's very bags. Yeah. Really,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: any yard game, though, I can get into because it
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: means you're outside, you're hanging out with friends and family.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: You're all there just relaxing and enjoying, and I love that.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: That's my favorite.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, yard games and the Pain Cave are the top
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: of your fun list.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Cool, same, same, same.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Same, totally same amount of efforts, same amount of determination.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: I totally totally understand. We talked about your proudest moment
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: staying on your feet, an admirable feat for sure. When
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: we think about the inverse and think about your most
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: difficult moment of twenty twenty three, what comes to mind.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I spent so many hours in the Pain Cave,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: more than I ever have, going farther back in that
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: cave than ever before. So in the moment, those were
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: both fun in their own way, but also really really difficult.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Like the last forty miles of UTMB, I could barely
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: lift my feet off the ground anymore because my legs
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: were so tired, and uh, and that's a lot of
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: miles left to just live step by step, trying to,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: you know, keep moving forward.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I remember I was at in the finish area at
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: UTMB and Shamani and we are watching these big TVs
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: they have, like the Courtney Cam, right, and there's just
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: this those impeccable camera people that are running on the
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: mountains and following you.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: It truly blows my mind.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: The athleticism that is required to do something like that,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: But it's so funny in the moment because all of
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: these people are running with you, like spectators upon spectators
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: upon spectators, are just trying to keep up with you
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: as you're like making your way through the woods, and
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: your face is a combination of I'm so grateful you're here,
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: but also please leave me alone. So there's two things
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: I want to double click on. One, how does it
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: feel in those moments to have all of these people
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: around you because you're in the middle of doing a
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: really hard thing.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: For sure, grateful for them. I get a lot of
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: energy from environments and try to give it back as well.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: So the fans out on courses, you know, any race
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: that I've done, are huge boosts of energy and just
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: positive motivation, forward momentum, like all of that I get
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: from people being out there. And at the same time,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I was so spent in that race that I could
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: barely like blink or look sideways, you know, like I
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: was just like surviving to get to that finish line,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: and so I couldn't like engage or smile as much
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: or you know, it was like a definite survival mission.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I can't even imagine, Like I get
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: up on the wrong side of the bed and I'm like, oh,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: one person wants to talk to me within twenty minutes.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: I don't have this energy, this bandwidth.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: I can be kind to you, but I might not
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: be the friendliest Emily that you want to hang out with.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: So to be.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Sixty miles into a task like this with forty left
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: on deck and have all of those people surrounding you, yeah,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: I would imagine that could be a little bit conflicting.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Now you talked about the fact that forty miles left
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: in a race is not a small distance. What keeps
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: you going when you're in the depths of the pain cave?
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: What's your why?
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: My why is curiosity and wondering what's possible, and my
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: visual for that is this pain cave. So even though
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: you know it's not ideal to enter the pain cave
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: with forty miles left and be as destroyed as I felt,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: it feels productive because there I am in the darkest
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: corners where I've never been before, and I'm getting to
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: make myself better for the next time. So that's what
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I try to keep in mind, is like, what's possible?
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: And do the work now so that you can be
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: better for your future self.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: I love that sentiment, and that reframe from this is
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: really hard.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I can too.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: I know that I can, and I'll be able to
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: utilize every bit of this experience in my future for
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: you person, and only in the execution of that.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Are you like break it.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Up into little doables and like accomplish small bits at
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: a time to get through the hard stuff. Are you
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: a big self talk person? Bring me into your headspace
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: during this time the pain cave?
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Both of those things. So for sure, I'm staying right
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: where my feet are, right in the moment, just chewing
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: on the amount I can actually process. And when it
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: gets hard, that's the next step. Like it's not even
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: the next mile, it's not the next aid station, it's
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: one more step. Let's just do that as best we
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: can right now. So breaking it into those digestible pieces,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: and then I do a ton of self talk and mantras,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: and sometimes it's just in my head, but sometimes it's
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: out loud. I think what we say to ourselves is important,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: really really important, and so trying to heat my mindset
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: as positive and productive as possible. In the toughest moments
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: is a key part for me.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Taking a break from today's episode to give some love
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: to the two sponsors who make this five day series possible.
• 22:20
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• 24:07
  Speaker 2: you want to know what my go tos are right now,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: we're talking sneakers. I am lacing up the new Nova
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Blast four and the gel Nimbus twenty five. Again my
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: go tos the Noble Blast four, the Jail Nimbus twenty
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: five regulars in my training rotation, I promise I would
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: never steer you wrong. Was there a certain point in
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: your life where you realize the true power of self talk?
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: For sure, I concretely started to understand it after I
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: tried my first hundred mile race and I dropped out
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: at mile sixty. This was back in twenty twelve. I
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: thought of running as a physical thing, solely physical or
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: moving our bodies, and you either can do it or
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: you can't. And so when it got hard during that
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: one hundred mile attempt, I thought, well, I'm just not
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: a person who can do this, and I spiraled into
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: this whole negative self talk whirlpool of convincing myself to
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: just throw in the towel. So I did. But then
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: I sat there at that aid station that I quit
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: at for hours because I didn't have a ride out,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: and I watched all of these people come through and
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: they were clearly hurting, but somehow they were finding a
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: way forward, and it really illustrated for me that it
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: was possible and that it was more than a physical act,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: like you need to stay strong in your head if
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: you want to do something difficult like this. It also
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: solidified my path forward that I wanted to be a
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: person who could do this. So I'm going to figure
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: it out and then the next time it gets really hard,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: I'm going to play a different record in my head
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: than the negative one that played this last time, because
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: clearly that didn't work, and let's try, you know, the
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: positivity one instead.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so firstly that idea or that decision, I'm going
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: to be the person that can do things like this.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's like a large goal, right.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: So in that moment you said I'm going to be
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: the kind of person that can run this type of
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: a distance, do this type of a race. Do you
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: then work back from that decision because in practice saying
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: something out loud like that, that's a really big undertaking.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: So I would imagine that you got to a point
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: where you said, Okay, now I'm going to have to
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: break this up into smaller doables.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, I fully like backpedal. You know, where am I
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: in this whole journey of trying to get to this
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: thing that I'm aiming for. Let's backpedal and let's relook
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: at the whole on ramp towards it. Because we don't
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: have to stick with what we did before. We can
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: try something totally new. We can change the path a
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: little bit to arrive at the destination in a better way.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: So I did that. I definitely backpedaled it and then
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: took a wide view of like what are the things
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: I could try? And then I did start to make
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: some intermediate goals along the way to get me towards
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: one hundred mile finish. So for me, it was like
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: figuring out all of the pieces of ultra running and
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: signing up for some shorter races to practice those pieces
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: and like put it into action and learn from all
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: of the steps along the way, because it was so
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: evident that it wasn't just you can do it or
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: not thing. It was a if you work for it,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: you can be that person. But it's going to take
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: some input from.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: You besides the evolution of your self talk and shifting
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: that more toward the positive side. What are some of
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: those other pieces that you're getting at that you felt
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: as though really needed exercise and practice, just.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Running trails more consistently, being more consistent in training, getting
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: out the door, building up in mileage, like all of
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: those basic pieces. But then ultra running is a ton
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: of puzzle pieces that all are included in this running race.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like your nutrition is huge, and figuring
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: out that puzzle piece, your gear or like being comfortable
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: or you know, trying to avoid blisters or chase it,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: like all of that can change a day, you know.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: So it was like breaking it all into smaller buckets
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: and then trying to like figure out each bucket on its.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: Own, Yeah, and then going back again.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: I know I keep hammering in on the self talk thing,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: but I do believe that it is an area that
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: so many individuals really struggle with adapting and making work
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: for them. What was your journey like to figuring out
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: the right way to talk to yourself?
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: In my second one hundred mile attempt, then I decided
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: at that start line, there's no quit in this race.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: You're figuring it out along the way, no matter how
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: long it takes. And so during that race, the self
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: talk became just this very like general mantra of like,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: you're fine, this is fine. So that one went over
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: and over and over in my head. Anytime I started
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: to doubt myself or worry about what was happening or
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: not happening, it was like, no, you're fine, this is fine.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: It's everything's going fine. And I think having in my
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: mind before that race that there was no quit made it.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: So I developed this mantra and like positive self talk
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: just to like battle that negativity that I knew would
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: seep in. I had just experienced it, you know, in
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: the race that I quit. So I knew it was
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: there lurking, and so I had to have like a
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: defense ready for it. So anytime it started to get negative,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: it was just like throwing in that this is fine
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: and repeating it over and over again. And what I
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: found was that it really helped, Like it was fine,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: everything was okay. I was going to problem solve whatever
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: was going on, and I was going to find a
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: way to keep putting one foot in front of the other,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: and that negative thinking wasn't helping me do that, So like,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: why give it a seat at the table? You don't,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: you don't get to be here. You're not helping me.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Everything is fine, see you later.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: I appreciate this approach because it's very realistic, right. It's
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: not saying something like I am the best person on
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: this course, or I mean insert other over exaggeration, maybe
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: hard to believe positive self talk. Saying something like I
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: am fine, this is fine, I can is so simple,
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: but such a big impactful way to move forward and proceed.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've I found that it not only helped my head,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: but it helped all of my systems just calm down.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Like when it felt not fine and I was saying
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: this is fine, It's okay. It was like everything could
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: be calm, and then I could actually think more clearly
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: about what our the problems I'm having right now, What
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: are the solutions I could try, Like, if I'm not
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: in this frenzy of panic, my brain actually can function
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: as a problem solver, and we can, you know, figure
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: out how to make it even more than fine and
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: keep moving forward better.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I think I need a recording of you saying it's
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: fine for me to play when I run Tokyo in March.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Just you every like eighteenth song that comes on.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: If I choose to use music, it'll be a six
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: second recording of you saying everything's going to be fine, Emily, Yeah, everything.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Would love to love to do that for you.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna put it up for sale in the Hurdle store.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Just you all wait, I will.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: So we've talked about proudest moment of the year. We've
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: talked about most difficult moment of the year. Now we're
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: going to have a little bit of fun and I'm
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: going to ask you. I know that Time named Taylor
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Swift as their Person of the Year. If you had
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: to choose a person of the year, Courtney, Who are
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: you going to give your flowers to?
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Oh geez, I have absolutely no authority to name anybody anything.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: And I'm a big t Swish fan. I've got her
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: on my playlist in my tiny little world that I
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: exist in. My Person of the Year is my husband.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: It's got to be And.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: Why that tell me why he wins your your award?
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: He's the best. I mean, there are are crazy together,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: you know, like this is a team sport, so those
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: finish lines are for sure a shared thing that we
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: both get to. But he is just such an amazing
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: behind the scenes guy who like he doesn't need anyone
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: to know you know how much he helps in me
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: getting to those finish lines. And he just like does
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: it because he loves it and we love doing this together.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: And for sure, like creating those memories together. Is that's
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: like life? You know? Yeah?
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, It's such a special thing to be able, like
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: I said earlier, to combine your passions and your purpose
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: and then to be able to bring your people along.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: For the ride.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: There's truly, absolutely nothing better. When you look at the
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: year that you've had. So many people have referred to
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: you over and over as the goat how does that
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: reference make you feel.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: I don't need any titles or awards. I mean I
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: appreciate it and I just love that the sport is growing.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: More and more people are finding out about it, and
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: if it doesn't make them want to do the sport themselves,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: maybe it helps them see that they could try something
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: a little bit crazier and chase after that, you know,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: like you don't have to run ultras, push yourself and
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: try hard things. You can do that in any area
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: of your life.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: Speaking of growth of the sport, you were one. I
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: think the demo the last time I checked of UTMB,
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: which we've talked about today, is like something like twelve
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: percent women and eighty eight percent men. How does it
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: feel for you to be a woman at the front
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: of this sport and what are your hopes for women
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: as the sport continues to grow.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: It's an exciting time to be in this sport as
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: a woman. The ratio is still off on start lines,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: like it's not fifty to fifty at most races. There's
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: a few, but it is growing. And so if we
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: just keep on spreading that web of joy and doing
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: hard things and you know, finding pushing your limits We're
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: gonna absolutely see way more women jump into these things,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: and I think that's really exciting for a lot of reasons,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: but mostly just because trail running is awesome and I
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: want more people to experience it for sure.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: What are you looking to do more of in twenty
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: twenty four?
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Always hang out with people I love more, more time
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: with the people that are important to me.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: Do you foresee yourself taking on a similar year this
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: year like last year.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Or do you have a different type of big goal
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: on the horizon.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: I'm not positive yet. I've definitely had the time lately
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: to brainstorm more, but I'm still kind of like, yeah,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: throwing everything on the paper right now of like everything
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: I want to do or any race I can think of,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: and then I'll start to hopefully hone in on a
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: better schedule because currently it's just not feasible.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: How does Courtney goal set.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not a huge, like concrete goal setter. Okay, Yeah,
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: I think I'm just constantly wanting to keep like learning
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: from what's happened before to take into the future version
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: of myself.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: I love that we're going to give you an opportunity
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: to offer yourself a piece of advice in just a moment.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: But before you do, I want to ask you if
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: there has been anyone that said something over the last
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: three sixty five that really stuck with you, maybe advice
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: you've offered a sentiment after you finished a big goal
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: of yours. What advice have you received over the last
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: three sixty five that you're bringing with you into twenty
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: twenty four.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's such a great question that I
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: would love to take out on a run with me
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: right now and like really all over you know.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's totally fair.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: That's kind of where I remember some of the best
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: things that have happened to me, or just completely reevaluate
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: all of my life choices. So I'm going to hold
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: you accountable to that, and I'm going to hit you
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: later on after this episode to make sure we get that.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: With that said, court, right now, you have an opportunity
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: to offer yourself a piece of advice back on January one,
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. Knowing what you know now here in
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, what do you tell yourself?
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Oh, keep having fun. Kevin and I both like the
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: way we live our lives is trying to have fun
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: and enjoy be in that front seat and you know,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: driving the vehicle. So we usually will try to keep
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: that lens on it and just remember like life is short,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: so we've got to just enjoy the moments along the way.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that because what you're saying here is that
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: it's a choice, and often times, because of circumstance or
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: past situations, trauma individuals feel as though they're incapable of
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: letting fun ride first. So maybe for that person, for
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: the person who's struggling with this mindset, do you have
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: any tips on how to approach it in that way?
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Fun doesn't have to be laughing and smiling and doing
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: silly things all the time. Like obviously we still have
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: to you know, pay bills and do the dishes and
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: the not fun things about life. But if the lens
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: on everything is like all of these are the moments
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: of my day, of my week, of my month of
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: my year, like the general trend of that life should
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: be like joy. It should be finding those pieces in
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: the mundane that make us smile and keeping that in
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: perspective I think, which is it's not like easy all
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: of the time, but I think, you know, we get
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: to write our stories and so what's that story look like.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad that we were able to catch
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: up a little bit. I love your lens, I love
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: your positivity, and I, for one, I know I'm speaking
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: on behalf of a lot of people. I can't wait
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: to see what happens for you in the next three
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: sixty five. For those that don't follow along with you
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: just yet, give us your details. How do they keep
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: up with you on social best.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Place to find me is Instagram, at Courtney.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Dualter Amazing, I'm over, at Emilyabodi and at Hurdle Podcast
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Another Hurdle conquered.
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time.