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The Wilderness Chapter 3: Disconnected Democrats in Pittsburgh · Pod Save America

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Photos put Senator Doug Mastriano in D.C. on January 6th.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: In fact, he organized a bus trip to go down there.
• 0:10
  Speaker 3: He's been asked to hand over documents and information about
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: efforts to undo.
• 0:14
  Speaker 4: The certification of the 2020 election in Pennsylvania, which he
• 0:17
  Speaker 4: called compromised and corrupt.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: I pray that we'll seize the power that we have
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: given to us by the Constitution and as well by you, providentially.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: I pray for the leaders in the federal government, God,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: on the 6th of January, that they will rise up
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: with boldness. You'll bless these.
• 0:33
  Speaker 5: Meet Doug Mastriano, the Republican nominee for governor in Pennsylvania,
• 0:37
  Speaker 5: the birthplace of American democracy. Mastriano is a state senator
• 0:42
  Speaker 5: who tried to help Donald Trump overturn the results of
• 0:45
  Speaker 5: the last election, and he was at the U.S. Capitol
• 0:47
  Speaker 5: on January 6th. As governor, he'd have a lot of
• 0:51
  Speaker 5: power over Pennsylvania's elections, including what happens to the swing
• 0:55
  Speaker 5: state's 20 electoral votes, electoral votes that could easily determine
• 0:59
  Speaker 5: the next president.
• 1:01
  Speaker 6: I'm Doug Mastriano, and I get to appoint the Secretary
• 1:04
  Speaker 6: of State, who's delegated from me the power to make
• 1:07
  Speaker 6: the corrections to elections, the voting logs, and everything. And
• 1:12
  Speaker 6: we're going to clean it up. I might even have
• 1:14
  Speaker 6: to reset voter registration and start all over again across
• 1:16
  Speaker 6: the state. That's a stroke of a pen. I can
• 1:18
  Speaker 6: decertify every single machine in the state.
• 1:21
  Speaker 5: Doesn't seem great. Also, Mastriano has ties to extremist Christian
• 1:26
  Speaker 5: nationalist groups, opposes same-sex marriage, and says he'd sign a
• 1:30
  Speaker 5: law to ban abortion with no exceptions. But wait, there's more.
• 1:40
  Speaker 5: In 2014, Mastriano posed for a faculty photo at the
• 1:43
  Speaker 5: Army War College, where he taught for a few years.
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: For some weird reason, everyone in the picture was given
• 1:48
  Speaker 5: the choice to dress up as a historical figure. Guess
• 1:51
  Speaker 5: who was the only faculty member to choose Confederate soldier?
• 1:57
  Speaker 5: That's right, Doug Mastriano. the state senator who represents Gettysburg.
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: So yeah, that's the guy running for governor of Pennsylvania.
• 2:08
  Speaker 5: And even though the polls currently show him down by
• 2:10
  Speaker 5: a few points, he could absolutely win. In 2020, Joe
• 2:15
  Speaker 5: Biden won Pennsylvania by a little more than 80,000 votes,
• 2:19
  Speaker 5: even though he turned out more Democratic voters than any
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: presidential candidate in history. That's because Trump's MAGA base broke
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: turnout records too. Not sure if you've noticed, but they
• 2:29
  Speaker 5: still seem pretty fired up. So once again, Pennsylvania will
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: be one of the country's biggest battlegrounds in this election.
• 2:48
  Speaker 5: The campaign between Mastriano and Democratic Attorney General Josh Shapiro
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: is one of the most consequential races in the country. Meanwhile,
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: Control of the Senate could come down to the contest
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: between Republican nominee Mehmet Oz, a quack TV doctor from
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: New Jersey, and Democratic nominee John Fetterman, Pennsylvania's 6'8 lieutenant governor,
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: a hoodie-wearing, goatee-sporting progressive who was described in The Atlantic
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: as hacked together from spare parts in an oil-streaked Pittsburgh
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: chopper garage. So far, it seems to be working for him.
• 3:20
  Speaker 7: He has been leading in the most recent polls, and
• 3:22
  Speaker 7: some of them by quite a bit.
• 3:24
  Speaker 8: One Fox News poll.
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: The stakes in Pennsylvania and for democracy are huge. The
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: question is, do enough people know that? Are enough people
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: paying attention? Can John Fetterman, Josh Shapiro and other Democratic
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: candidates motivate enough of the voters who came out to
• 3:39
  Speaker 5: defeat Trump in 2020? Especially when a lot of those
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: voters are feeling disconnected from politics and disappointed with the
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: direction of the country.
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: Our organization started because we are working class people and
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: we come out of real life. And we saw that
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: nobody in Western Pennsylvania, from the Democratic Party to the
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: Republican Party to whatever political party you're coming from, right,
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: was actually talking to people in a day-to-day way about
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: what their life was like.
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: That's Alex Wallach-Hanson, the field director for Pennsylvania United, a
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: group of nonprofit organizations who helped flip Pennsylvania to Biden
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: in 2020. Elections are.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: A choice on one Tuesday in November where you got
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: to wake up and you go pick between two people, right?
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: Or you pick to not vote. The vast majority of
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: people in our community are not waking up with a
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: preformed and prefigured analysis of politics and connecting it to
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: their lives and how they see the world because they're
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: not in organizations. They're not connected to the political establishment.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: They're not connected to any way where they touch power
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: and see it show up in their lives.
• 4:46
  Speaker 6: So when.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: political establishment people, the media, when they tell this story of, oh,
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: voters in Pennsylvania have been persuaded by the Republican Party
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: message or have been persuaded by the politics of fear
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: and hate and division. That may be true for some people,
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: but the vast majority of people who are voting are
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: just showing up and picking between two people on that
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: given day. And there's so much complexity that goes into that.
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: I went to Pittsburgh earlier this summer to talk to
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: some of the voters that Wallach was talking about. They're
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: people who aren't that connected to politics and aren't following
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: the news that closely, but people who still usually show
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: up on election day to pick between two candidates. They're
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: the kind of people that political scientist Diana Krupnikov was
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: telling us about in the first episode.
• 5:31
  Speaker 10: In order to understand the divide between the parties, Democrats
• 5:34
  Speaker 10: and Republicans, we have to understand this divide between those
• 5:38
  Speaker 10: who pay a tremendous amount of attention, really focus on politics,
• 5:42
  Speaker 10: and those who pay much less of attention politically.
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: In this focus group, I spoke with nine disengaged Democrats.
• 5:49
  Speaker 5: All were from the Pittsburgh area. None were daily news consumers.
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: And while all of them were leaning towards voting in
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: the midterms, only three said they'll definitely cast a ballot.
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: All of them voted for Biden in 2020, but two
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: of them voted for Trump in 2016. For context, I
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: talked to these voters a few days before the start
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: of the January 6th hearings. We spoke about the hearings, democracy, abortion,
• 6:10
  Speaker 5: the economy, inflation, guns, and of course, politics. including Pennsylvania's
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: big midterm races. A few weeks later, I sat down
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: with a group of experts in Pennsylvania politics to help
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: break down what the voters said.
• 6:23
  Speaker 9: So I'm Malcolm Kenyatta.
• 6:25
  Speaker 11: I'm a state representative here in Pennsylvania. And just not
• 6:28
  Speaker 11: too long ago, I finished my bid for the U.S.
• 6:32
  Speaker 11: Senate in the Democratic primary, where I was the first
• 6:34
  Speaker 11: openly LGBTQ person of color to run for U.S.
• 6:36
  Speaker 9: Senate in American history.
• 6:38
  Speaker 8: My name is Rebecca Katz.
• 6:39
  Speaker 7: I am the founder of New Deal Strategies and chief
• 6:42
  Speaker 7: advisor to Senate candidate John Fetterman.
• 6:46
  Speaker 12: Nice to meet you all. My name is Dan Wagner.
• 6:47
  Speaker 12: I'm the chief executive officer of Civis Analytics.
• 6:50
  Speaker 13: We're a multipurpose data science technology and analytics firm, and
• 6:54
  Speaker 13: we do a lot of work supporting political campaigns, advocacy groups,
• 6:58
  Speaker 13: et cetera, with their analytics challenges. Before this, I was
• 7:02
  Speaker 13: the chief analytics officer for the 2012 Obama campaign, and
• 7:05
  Speaker 13: that's it.
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: After the break, we hear from Malcolm, Rebecca, Dan, and
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: nine Pennsylvania voters.
• 7:22
  Speaker 11: Rebecca, I can't believe this is our first time meeting
• 7:23
  Speaker 11: with all these guys. We didn't even have our own
• 7:26
  Speaker 11: coffee a moment. We were doing it with the pod safe.
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: You brought the whole crew together.
• 7:33
  Speaker 8: I don't think I've seen you in like 15 years.
• 7:35
  Speaker 7: I mean, maybe more, but I don't want to say
• 7:36
  Speaker 7: how old we are, so I'm going to stop it.
• 7:38
  Speaker 5: I literally just had this conversation with Tommy in the office.
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: I went to Pittsburgh to talk with voters who Democrats
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: absolutely need if we want to win in November. People
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: who cast their ballot for Joe Biden in 2020, but
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: aren't totally sure what they'll do in the 2022 midterms.
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: As you'll hear, they feel pretty down about politics and
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: the state of the country, and they're not following the
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: news as closely as you probably are. Afterwards, I get
• 7:59
  Speaker 5: together with Dan, Malcolm, and Rebecca to talk about what
• 8:02
  Speaker 5: we heard. Thank you all for doing this. Dan, I
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: will go out on a limb and say that most
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: wilderness listeners are very politically engaged voters who follow political
• 8:11
  Speaker 5: news quite closely. How do you think they compare with
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: the broader electorate?
• 8:15
  Speaker 13: They look nothing like them. I mean, part of our job, unfortunately,
• 8:19
  Speaker 13: is to be analytical, and part of it is to stereotype.
• 8:21
  Speaker 13: The average Pod Save America listener is probably late 30s,
• 8:27
  Speaker 13: probably 80% are likely white, probably 50-50 male-female, is probably
• 8:32
  Speaker 13: concentrated 50% plus in urban areas, is probably entirely college-educated,
• 8:38
  Speaker 13: fill in the gaps. They probably share a similar cultural standard,
• 8:43
  Speaker 13: same standard of living standard, same feelings of anxiety about recent.
• 8:47
  Speaker 12: Policy, etc.
• 8:49
  Speaker 13: And the average non-Pod Save America person probably has not
• 8:53
  Speaker 13: gone to college or has gone to part of college
• 8:55
  Speaker 13: and is living through debt right now. They consume their
• 8:58
  Speaker 13: news through some combination of cable news, but more likely
• 9:02
  Speaker 13: through Facebook. They are looking at the political process right
• 9:06
  Speaker 13: now through deep anxiety because they're going through a historical
• 9:09
  Speaker 13: collapse in their standard of living as a result of
• 9:12
  Speaker 13: inflation and rising home prices. And they are thinking about
• 9:15
  Speaker 13: how their families are going to get by and politics
• 9:18
  Speaker 13: is last, not first.
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's about right.
• 9:22
  Speaker 9: This guy's good.
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: You pretty much nailed our audience. Malcolm, you just ran
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: in a statewide campaign in Pennsylvania. How important is it
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: to reach voters who aren't frequent Twitter users or cable
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: news viewers, in your opinion? What was that like?
• 9:40
  Speaker 11: Our challenge was that there were a lot of voters
• 9:43
  Speaker 11: who did not know who we were, who in a
• 9:47
  Speaker 11: huge state like Pennsylvania, if you are not able to
• 9:52
  Speaker 11: engage folks who fall into those buckets, which Dan's just
• 9:55
  Speaker 11: so accurately described, where politics is last, not first, and
• 9:59
  Speaker 11: that the type of family I come from. You know,
• 10:02
  Speaker 11: I lived six different places by the time I graduated
• 10:04
  Speaker 11: high school. My mom worked all of the time. And so,
• 10:08
  Speaker 11: you know, she was a good Democrat, but she was
• 10:10
  Speaker 11: like not paying attention to to all the twists and
• 10:14
  Speaker 11: turns of politics, except for the real quality of life
• 10:17
  Speaker 11: concerns that were front and center. You know, the levels
• 10:21
  Speaker 11: of gun violence in our communities. And frankly, if you
• 10:25
  Speaker 11: know folks from North Philly, gun violence was a crisis
• 10:28
  Speaker 11: before it became something that national folks wanted to cover.
• 10:31
  Speaker 11: We're dealing with mass shootings multiple times in the year.
• 10:35
  Speaker 11: I think we benefited from me being able to just
• 10:38
  Speaker 11: talk honestly and openly about my experience. In some cases
• 10:42
  Speaker 11: to the chagrin of my staff. I'm not like a
• 10:44
  Speaker 11: fucking talking points person. I just kind of say what
• 10:47
  Speaker 11: I think and it'll work or not work. And what
• 10:49
  Speaker 11: I think is that we are not delivering on a
• 10:53
  Speaker 11: government that actually works for those working families.
• 10:56
  Speaker 9: You know, all they got is me.
• 10:58
  Speaker 11: And so that's why I have a big mouth about
• 11:00
  Speaker 11: the needs of working people.
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: Rebecca, how important is it to reach voters who aren't
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: frequent Twitter users or cable news viewers? How does that
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: factor into your campaign strategy?
• 11:11
  Speaker 8: It's very important.
• 11:12
  Speaker 7: You know, we always say campaigns are not won or
• 11:14
  Speaker 7: lost on Twitter. You have to actually go out and
• 11:16
  Speaker 7: talk to the people. They consume news differently, and you
• 11:20
  Speaker 7: actually have to talk about things that they care about,
• 11:22
  Speaker 7: and you have to make them believe that you will do.
• 11:25
  Speaker 8: Something for them.
• 11:26
  Speaker 7: Right now, the biggest problem we have is no one
• 11:28
  Speaker 7: thinks anyone's going to do anything for them.
• 11:31
  Speaker 5: All right, let's get to the first clip. I asked
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: voters how they feel about politics, media, and the way
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: things are going in America. Here's some of what they said.
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: On a scale of one to ten, how important are
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: politics in your life?
• 11:43
  Speaker 8: I want to say zero, but I'm going to say two.
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: Okay, that's okay.
• 11:48
  Speaker 7: Six.
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: I just, I can't watch the news. I stay out
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: of it, but I have to just not have it
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: as an influence in my life. It's just very important
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: to me. Since this whole pandemic started, my whole theme
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: was just stay in your lane. Be the best you
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: can be. You're not going to fix this political shit show.
• 12:07
  Speaker 14: My husband and I, we hardly ever watch the news
• 12:10
  Speaker 14: anymore because it's so negative.
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: A lot of it's kind of drawn along the party lines,
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: whether it's abortion, guns, COVID. It just feels like everything's
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: kind of split these days. You're afraid to talk up
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: to your neighbors not knowing what side of the fence
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: they're on. Is anyone else afraid to talk politics with
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: people that you know and your neighbors, friends, family? I
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: would agree with that.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: It seems like a lot of people have pretty hard stances,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: but you never know.
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: I feel like it's uncomfortable now.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: No matter what way you think, it.
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: Used to be, I think, a lot easier to talk
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: about stuff like that.
• 12:45
  Speaker 15: I always just say that politics divides people, so that's
• 12:48
  Speaker 15: why with family and stuff like that, I don't even
• 12:52
  Speaker 15: get into it because there are certain people, man, you
• 12:55
  Speaker 15: could just give two words and.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: Let's take off.
• 12:59
  Speaker 8: I agree with that. It's exhausting. I tend to go
• 13:04
  Speaker 8: down the middle a lot.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: You would think that that would make it easier to
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: find common.
• 13:09
  Speaker 7: Ground, but it seems more and more that if you
• 13:10
  Speaker 7: are not 100% in agreement with someone, they are just
• 13:14
  Speaker 7: completely irate and everybody's always.
• 13:16
  Speaker 8: So worked up and angry.
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: So knowing that these are all registered Democrats who voted
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: for Joe Biden in 2020, did these comments surprise anybody?
• 13:25
  Speaker 9: Nope.
• 13:27
  Speaker 7: They're not surprising. They're just depressing, right? I mean, I
• 13:32
  Speaker 7: think we all know that this is going to be
• 13:34
  Speaker 7: a tough year. Those voters are confirming it. I mean, John,
• 13:37
  Speaker 7: you know better than anybody how important it is for
• 13:39
  Speaker 7: voters to have hope and to look into the future.
• 13:42
  Speaker 7: And they don't have trust in government. They don't believe
• 13:45
  Speaker 7: anyone's fighting for them.
• 13:46
  Speaker 8: It's bleak.
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: Malcolm, you've been an elected official, but you've also been
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: an organizer for most of your life. Like, what strategies
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: have you found helpful in reaching voters? disengage voters like these?
• 13:59
  Speaker 9: I always think it's a one-two step, right?
• 14:01
  Speaker 11: First, we should acknowledge the fact that people have every
• 14:04
  Speaker 11: right to be frustrated. And listening to that, the thing
• 14:08
  Speaker 11: that stuck with me was the woman who said, I'm
• 14:10
  Speaker 11: just exhausted. And I think people are exhausted in terms
• 14:14
  Speaker 11: of like just things in their daily life that government
• 14:18
  Speaker 11: is not helping with. And they're exhausted by this constant
• 14:22
  Speaker 11: political conversation that's about what's the next news clip on,
• 14:27
  Speaker 11: you know, whatever your favorite nighttime talk news show is.
• 14:32
  Speaker 11: And so the first thing is to really acknowledge that pain.
• 14:35
  Speaker 11: But then you have to talk to people about the possibilities.
• 14:38
  Speaker 11: when you have a government that is more reflective, when
• 14:41
  Speaker 11: you have candidates who are going to do something and
• 14:44
  Speaker 11: they're going to do something because they understand what you're
• 14:46
  Speaker 11: going through. They're talking to you from a real place.
• 14:49
  Speaker 11: And I always feel like voters can feel that.
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: Dan, why do you think that most Democratic messaging fails
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: to reach or move these voters?
• 14:58
  Speaker 13: I'll answer it a little bit backward. But the most
• 15:00
  Speaker 13: interesting statistic that came out of the 2020 election is
• 15:04
  Speaker 13: was that when you looked at Democrats' vote for issues
• 15:08
  Speaker 13: in ballot elections relative to support for Biden, in many
• 15:13
  Speaker 13: cases you saw support for Democratic ballots positions up by
• 15:17
  Speaker 13: 15% versus Democratic candidates. Medicaid, minimum wage, credit rates on
• 15:24
  Speaker 13: things like payday loans in Nebraska, and this happened all
• 15:27
  Speaker 13: over the country. Alignment in terms of voting behavior with
• 15:31
  Speaker 13: Democrats but not supporting presidential candidates or Democratic candidates. And
• 15:38
  Speaker 13: so the question you have to ask yourself is, why
• 15:40
  Speaker 13: is it that voters are so misaligned between support for
• 15:44
  Speaker 13: an issue, which is the product, and then the candidate,
• 15:49
  Speaker 13: which is functionally the brand? And I'd probably be interested
• 15:51
  Speaker 13: more in hearing Rebecca's feelings about this. But in terms
• 15:54
  Speaker 13: of like the core diagnosis of 10% of these people
• 15:57
  Speaker 13: probably highly represented in that room. They're aligned with Democratic
• 16:00
  Speaker 13: positions but aren't aligned with Democrats because what has become
• 16:03
  Speaker 13: really a broken brand over the last 20 years.
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Rebecca, what do you think about that? Because one
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: thing that struck me, and we'll listen to some of
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: this in a bit, is they'll say that they don't
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: like both sides, that both sides are extreme. But then
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: when you get into the issues, they seem a little
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: more solidly Democratic than you'd think from how they describe themselves.
• 16:23
  Speaker 15: Right.
• 16:23
  Speaker 7: I mean, I think they don't like a lot of
• 16:25
  Speaker 7: the leadership in Washington, and they don't think those people
• 16:29
  Speaker 7: are relatable. It's almost like they think everyone in Washington
• 16:32
  Speaker 7: is like a let them eat cake to the masses.
• 16:35
  Speaker 7: Democrats should be the party of working people, and we
• 16:38
  Speaker 7: cannot connect the way that we used to. I think
• 16:41
  Speaker 7: it's because, honestly, that a lot of the folks have
• 16:44
  Speaker 7: been in Washington have been in Washington for many, many,
• 16:48
  Speaker 7: many decades. And it's like, Roe will get overturned and
• 16:52
  Speaker 7: a Democratic leader will say, what? We expected that to happen.
• 16:55
  Speaker 7: There's no passion. There's no sense of urgency. They're just
• 16:59
  Speaker 7: watching everything kind.
• 17:00
  Speaker 8: Of fall apart.
• 17:02
  Speaker 7: And normal people are watching it too. And they're losing
• 17:06
  Speaker 7: their minds and like screaming into the void. And we
• 17:09
  Speaker 7: have to find candidates who give a damn and who
• 17:12
  Speaker 7: can show them that they give a damn.
• 17:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: So like we said, you know, it was clear from
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: this group that even though they felt disengaged from politics itself,
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: They had very strong feelings about a lot of political issues.
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: That started with the economy and inflation, which was on
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: just about everyone's mind. Let's take a listen.
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: A lot of food items seem not only in short supply,
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: but you just watch them weekly go up and up
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: and up. Yeah, my chicken wings anymore. It's like filet mignon. Yeah,
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: I would say feeding my family and two boys has
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: definitely impacted us over the past month or so with
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: the grocery store. Do you want my rentals? going up significantly.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: The uncertainty of empty store shelves and gas prices to
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: go get the things.
• 17:58
  Speaker 8: So yeah, it's sad for especially those who don't have
• 18:02
  Speaker 8: the means. And I mean, I'm being a lot more
• 18:05
  Speaker 8: frugal than I was before.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: That's for sure.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Especially with the cost of gas, it's very expensive now.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: It would cost over $ 100 to fill up my Jeep.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: So it's gone up quite a bit.
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: So gas prices and inflation have come up in Every
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: single focus group, usually unprompted, usually early on in the discussion,
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: heard a lot about health care, housing, rent, the baby
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: formula shortage. Malcolm, when you were on the campaign trail,
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: what did you tell voters who were annoyed, to say
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: the least, that these economic problems haven't been fixed with
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: Democrats in charge of Washington?
• 18:42
  Speaker 9: The truth.
• 18:43
  Speaker 11: The fact that big oil companies are raking in more
• 18:47
  Speaker 11: money than they've ever made, that all of these meat
• 18:51
  Speaker 11: processors are making so much money. Forget which union it was,
• 18:56
  Speaker 11: but they tweeted out, record profits are stolen wages from workers.
• 19:00
  Speaker 9: And I think that's exactly right.
• 19:02
  Speaker 11: I do think that people, they want somebody to blame
• 19:05
  Speaker 11: when there's a big problem. And I don't think we've
• 19:07
  Speaker 11: done enough to tell people the truth about where the
• 19:12
  Speaker 11: blame lies. should lie in corporate greed that is out
• 19:16
  Speaker 11: of control and that gets to run unabated. And here's
• 19:19
  Speaker 11: the challenge for President Biden. Everybody knows President Biden. Everybody
• 19:23
  Speaker 11: doesn't know the CEO of ExxonMobil, right?
• 19:26
  Speaker 7: No Democrat should be out there talking about inflation without
• 19:30
  Speaker 7: talking about corporate greed, right? We have villains out there
• 19:35
  Speaker 7: and people need to know who they are. And we
• 19:37
  Speaker 7: need to be crystal clear about like it didn't have
• 19:39
  Speaker 7: to be this way. These executives are making money on
• 19:42
  Speaker 7: the backs of working people and nothing is changing. And
• 19:46
  Speaker 7: until we have real messaging coming out of D.C., people
• 19:48
  Speaker 7: are going to blame Democrats because Democrats are the ones
• 19:52
  Speaker 7: in control, even though Republicans are the ones making things worse.
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: Here's my question, though. I feel like we get to
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: this point every cycle. Like, why don't Democratic politicians focus
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: enough on economic issues? Because even if you are someone
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: who just wants to win, and you're just looking at
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: the polls, and you're just listening to focus groups, and
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: you're listening to your advisors, they're going to tell you
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: that economic issues are top priority for most voters, and
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: yet we always have this problem where it seems like
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: Democratic politicians do not focus enough on economic issues.
• 20:24
  Speaker 7: That's because they're not real people. They're so programmed and poll-tested,
• 20:29
  Speaker 7: and they talk like robots, right? I mean, John Fetterman,
• 20:33
  Speaker 7: the reason that people like him right now is because
• 20:35
  Speaker 7: he's talking like a normal person. And that seems to
• 20:38
  Speaker 7: be this like crazy, like head exploding thing among folks. Like,
• 20:43
  Speaker 7: look that he's at Costco too. You know, we have
• 20:46
  Speaker 7: programmed so many politicians that you have to have this
• 20:49
  Speaker 7: like rich donor network and come from a law firm
• 20:52
  Speaker 7: and do all these things that they've lost touch with
• 20:55
  Speaker 7: regular people. That is the problem. I think if we
• 20:58
  Speaker 7: get more candidates out there who understand what folks are
• 21:01
  Speaker 7: going through, I think we're going to win more elections.
• 21:03
  Speaker 7: I just hope democracy is still here at the end
• 21:06
  Speaker 7: when that finally happens.
• 21:08
  Speaker 11: I would just underline that. I said this every day
• 21:10
  Speaker 11: on the campaign trail. If we want to change the Senate,
• 21:12
  Speaker 11: we have to change the senators. And I think that
• 21:13
  Speaker 11: that's true for all of these positions. Like, what the
• 21:17
  Speaker 11: hell are we doing? I mean, our candidates should be
• 21:20
  Speaker 11: like working mom. It should be the actual people who
• 21:23
  Speaker 11: we are trying to reach because there is a fluency
• 21:26
  Speaker 11: there that you cannot learn. You have to know that
• 21:30
  Speaker 11: stuff and communicate with people, as Rebecca was saying, and
• 21:33
  Speaker 11: just as a person.
• 21:35
  Speaker 9: I don't know why that's so hard. I don't know
• 21:37
  Speaker 9: why that's hard.
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: Well, so there's definitely the normal person problem that Democratic
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: politicians have. I think another problem is Democratic politicians can
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: sometimes talk about economic issues, but those issues don't always
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: break through the media filter. The media doesn't love to
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: cover economic issues, economic debates, at least anymore. But how
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: should campaigns handle that? that sort of media reluctance to
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: actually cover economic issues.
• 22:04
  Speaker 8: They should make it part of their message and hammer
• 22:06
  Speaker 8: it every damn day.
• 22:07
  Speaker 7: I mean, this is the problem. Like, we don't have
• 22:10
  Speaker 7: a message right now. If it's the only thing they
• 22:12
  Speaker 7: were to be talking about, that would get covered, right?
• 22:15
  Speaker 7: And the problem is that everyone's just trying to do,
• 22:18
  Speaker 7: you know, whatever Sunday press conference to just get in
• 22:21
  Speaker 7: the news and get a hook and be exciting. And
• 22:23
  Speaker 7: at the end of the day, you got to connect
• 22:25
  Speaker 7: with people and you got to make it in a
• 22:27
  Speaker 7: way that reporters will care about. And it's just about
• 22:30
  Speaker 7: it's packaging, honestly.
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: Dan, what do you think?
• 22:33
  Speaker 12: There's a few problems.
• 22:34
  Speaker 13: One is I'll disagree with the premise that Democrats don't
• 22:37
  Speaker 13: talk about economic issues. I think they do. I think
• 22:41
  Speaker 13: that the delivery is poor, routinely poor. Second, they are
• 22:45
  Speaker 13: often caught in the cultural debate promoted by the media.
• 22:49
  Speaker 13: So they'll say, like, I believe that minimum wage should
• 22:51
  Speaker 13: go up. Well, what do you think about trans people
• 22:53
  Speaker 13: in bathrooms? What do you think about whatever? Because that's
• 22:55
  Speaker 13: the thing that's going to raise the ratings of those
• 22:57
  Speaker 13: different media channels, because there's revenue attached to a cultural battle.
• 23:03
  Speaker 13: And you have people on both sides that will engage
• 23:05
  Speaker 13: in that and they'll raise advertising revenue for their different channels.
• 23:08
  Speaker 13: And so unfortunately, like the media capitalist track prevents a
• 23:13
  Speaker 13: lot of the solid delivery from Democratic candidates because these
• 23:16
  Speaker 13: cultural things, they have incentives to run against those.
• 23:18
  Speaker 8: Just to interrupt for a second, but Democrats always take
• 23:20
  Speaker 8: the bait though. That's the problem. It's not just that
• 23:22
  Speaker 8: we're having cultural issues.
• 23:24
  Speaker 7: Thrown at us, is that they are weak about it
• 23:27
  Speaker 7: and they don't like address the bully head on.
• 23:29
  Speaker 13: But the majority of news consumption is not done through
• 23:32
  Speaker 13: the news media.
• 23:33
  Speaker 12: It's done online. And they've done a very good job.
• 23:36
  Speaker 13: Creating simple messages that elevate cultural differences between Americans with consistent,
• 23:44
  Speaker 13: overwhelming delivery through their parties, through their PACs, et cetera,
• 23:48
  Speaker 13: that do a really good job of reinforcing a brand
• 23:51
  Speaker 13: of super out of touch, fancy elites that even though
• 23:55
  Speaker 13: they're promoting the delivery of their economic argument, get smoked
• 24:00
  Speaker 13: out by the amount of content that they're putting on
• 24:02
  Speaker 13: the internet that is really, really effective and how it
• 24:05
  Speaker 13: brand sets the Democratic Party.
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: So here's a real world issue that sort of comes
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: into play here. Like one issue that's received a lot
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: of coverage in the media recently is gun violence, unfortunately,
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: because we've had so much of it in 2022.
• 24:21
  Speaker 13: A deadly shooting at a 4th of July parade in
• 24:23
  Speaker 13: Highland Park, Illinois.
• 24:24
  Speaker 12: Investigators called the shooter a white supremacist who targeted black people.
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: In the last 30 minutes, police.
• 24:30
  Speaker 8: What is the deadliest school shooting in state history?
• 24:32
  Speaker 16: The 19 children who were killed, the Uvalde community also
• 24:35
  Speaker 16: mourning two teachers.
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: It also came up in this group. Here's a clip.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I'm Jewish and I had friends who passed in the
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Tree of Life massacre.
• 24:45
  Speaker 8: And anytime anything's on the news... just as triggers, just, yeah.
• 24:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, sorry.
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: Do you think in general we should have more gun laws,
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: fewer gun laws, or the same as we have? Smarter
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: gun laws.
• 25:05
  Speaker 10: I mean, I believe in people having the right to
• 25:07
  Speaker 10: bear arms, but when you have a weapon that is
• 25:11
  Speaker 10: made to mass kill people, nobody needs that.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: I'd say more strict and statewide government-wide ones with more
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: strict background checks, waiting periods, application fees or something. I
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: think people should still be able to keep their guns
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: or get them, but it should be a lot more complicated.
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: In your opinion, why do you think we don't have
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: new gun laws? The gun lobby.
• 25:40
  Speaker 9: The gun lobby.
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: They're very, very powerful. A lot of money being thrown around.
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: I think it's a voting issue, too, for people.
• 25:49
  Speaker 16: I have a lot of friends that are very passionate
• 25:51
  Speaker 16: about no more gun laws or no change in gun laws.
• 25:54
  Speaker 16: And so I think it's a platform that they would
• 25:56
  Speaker 16: vote on for representatives that would either refuse or block
• 26:01
  Speaker 16: legislation that would increase regulations around sale of guns.
• 26:05
  Speaker 8: I have a lot of friends and family members that
• 26:08
  Speaker 8: fall into that category as well. But if I ask
• 26:10
  Speaker 8: them directly, do you think that there should be universal
• 26:12
  Speaker 8: background checks?
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: They would probably all say yes.
• 26:15
  Speaker 10: So I think that it gets lumped in with like
• 26:17
  Speaker 10: these more extreme things and people get afraid then that
• 26:20
  Speaker 10: it's going to kind of tumble and.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: Spiral from there instead of taking it piece by piece
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: and really looking at what might be effective without actually
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: like infringing on people's rights.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: I don't think they should ban AR-15s, but I think
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: it should be a lot more difficult to get one.
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: Dan, how do you think this group of disengaged Democratic
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: voters matches up to the broader electorate on gun control?
• 26:41
  Speaker 6: Hi.
• 26:41
  Speaker 13: Yeah, I would say that their opinions match up with
• 26:43
  Speaker 13: around 60 percent of American voters.
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: I was actually surprised, maybe in a good direction, that
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: most of these voters, and that last guy that was
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: talking about don't ban AR-15s, it would make them tougher,
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: that was the Trump voter, were actually a little bit
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: more forward on gun control than I thought there might be.
• 27:02
  Speaker 8: The voters who are there, the Senate is not, right?
• 27:04
  Speaker 7: The people are out front of where the politicians are here.
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: Malcolm, how central should gun violence be to Democrats' midterm message,
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: and how far can candidates go in a state like Pennsylvania?
• 27:15
  Speaker 11: I think the same was true when you're having the
• 27:17
  Speaker 11: conversation about quote unquote culture wars.
• 27:20
  Speaker 9: I think we have to believe in something and we
• 27:22
  Speaker 9: have to fight for it.
• 27:23
  Speaker 11: You know, I remember a conversation you and I, John,
• 27:26
  Speaker 11: had a long time ago, and it sits with me
• 27:28
  Speaker 11: forever when you're talking about another voter who said, you know,
• 27:31
  Speaker 11: Trump's a liar, but he's the most honest liar I know.
• 27:33
  Speaker 11: I think there is something to be said about people
• 27:38
  Speaker 11: believing that you believe something. And so I think whether
• 27:42
  Speaker 11: it's guns, whether it's standing up for trans folks, our
• 27:45
  Speaker 11: response to that can't be, well, like, let's just not
• 27:47
  Speaker 11: talk about it.
• 27:48
  Speaker 9: Of course, Republicans have won on that issue.
• 27:51
  Speaker 11: I don't think that they have, but I think that
• 27:53
  Speaker 11: we're really, you know, clunky in terms of how we
• 27:57
  Speaker 11: engage on those issues sometimes. I do think that sometimes
• 28:00
  Speaker 11: we are afraid of championing ideas and things that are A,
• 28:04
  Speaker 11: common sense, and that are B, supported by broad majorities
• 28:08
  Speaker 11: of the American people.
• 28:09
  Speaker 9: Like, why are we afraid?
• 28:11
  Speaker 7: Just to echo those points, I think voters are dying
• 28:13
  Speaker 7: for Democrats to go on office.
• 28:15
  Speaker 8: Right. We're just we're so scared.
• 28:17
  Speaker 7: And if you give voters a choice, they will pick
• 28:19
  Speaker 7: strong and wrong over weak and right every single day
• 28:22
  Speaker 7: of the week.
• 28:23
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 28:24
  Speaker 8: And what we have to do is is have strong
• 28:27
  Speaker 8: and right.
• 28:28
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: I guess my question is from like a message prioritization standpoint,
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: like you guys have a message calendar and we just
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: talked about how important it is to have the candidate
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: talking about economic issues like every single day.
• 28:38
  Speaker 9: And then.
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: The Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, and then there's
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: another mass shooting somewhere. And obviously, you don't want to
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: be afraid of that. You don't want to shirk from that.
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: You want to say what you believe, and you want
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: to be strong about that. But how do you navigate
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: an environment where all these different issues pop up, even
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: as you know people keep talking about the economy you
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: need to talk about all the time? How do you
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: balance that?
• 28:58
  Speaker 7: Listen, the Republican candidate for governor in Pennsylvania wants to
• 29:03
  Speaker 7: go after doctors who are helping women get abortions in
• 29:07
  Speaker 7: other states. You know, like it is a different kind
• 29:10
  Speaker 7: of landscape out there. And I think Democrats need to
• 29:14
  Speaker 7: show exactly what the Republican candidates are for and what
• 29:17
  Speaker 7: they're for.
• 29:18
  Speaker 9: These are economic issues.
• 29:19
  Speaker 11: If you are forced to have a child that you
• 29:24
  Speaker 11: cannot have right now because of the situation in your
• 29:26
  Speaker 11: life or because it's going to put at risk the
• 29:29
  Speaker 11: life of your partner, right, who's birthing that child in
• 29:31
  Speaker 11: the first place. These are economic issues. When people in
• 29:34
  Speaker 11: communities like mine, there is a shooting and folks are
• 29:37
  Speaker 11: traumatized and it's like tough to get to work. or
• 29:40
  Speaker 11: you can't get to work because your block is freaking
• 29:42
  Speaker 11: blocked off from yet more police tape.
• 29:45
  Speaker 9: I don't think these things are like separate things.
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: Dan, what do you think?
• 29:49
  Speaker 13: I think there's a few troubling patterns when you see
• 29:52
  Speaker 13: it in the data. One is that communication and process
• 29:57
  Speaker 13: is as opposed to consequences never works. And number two
• 30:02
  Speaker 13: is a lot of the language and by language, I
• 30:04
  Speaker 13: mean the actual words that we use to talk about
• 30:07
  Speaker 13: things have calcified in people's minds so much that they're
• 30:12
  Speaker 13: no longer effective in how you talk about them. In
• 30:15
  Speaker 13: the case of Roe or guns, et cetera, a lot
• 30:19
  Speaker 13: of what we found is that talking with words like
• 30:23
  Speaker 13: Supreme Court or judges or whatever, either people They ignore
• 30:28
  Speaker 13: it or rather in a testing environment has no effect.
• 30:32
  Speaker 12: What does have an effect?
• 30:34
  Speaker 13: What always has an effect is speaking to the consequences
• 30:39
  Speaker 13: of a policy or the consequences of a candidate. So
• 30:44
  Speaker 13: what does that mean in the case of Roe? What
• 30:47
  Speaker 13: that means in the case of Roe is that a
• 30:49
  Speaker 13: woman who is sexually assaulted has a very real possibility
• 30:53
  Speaker 13: of being incarcerated for up to two years in the
• 30:56
  Speaker 13: state of South Carolina. But making it very real that
• 30:59
  Speaker 13: it's not about SCOTUS, it's not about this, it's not
• 31:01
  Speaker 13: about that. What is very real is that women are
• 31:04
  Speaker 13: no longer free. And freedom is a very powerful word
• 31:09
  Speaker 13: in the United States. And this is no longer about choice.
• 31:12
  Speaker 13: Roe is about freedom. In the case of guns, guns
• 31:16
  Speaker 13: are no longer about guns. Guns are about the safety
• 31:19
  Speaker 13: of our children. And unfortunately, a lot of Democrats are
• 31:22
  Speaker 13: of the age where they no longer have to experience
• 31:24
  Speaker 13: the anxiety of being a parent today, which is kind
• 31:26
  Speaker 13: of a sad thing, right? the people on this call,
• 31:29
  Speaker 13: like we know the anxiety of that situation given our age.
• 31:34
  Speaker 13: The challenge of that session is it seems like it's
• 31:38
  Speaker 13: a lot of process and they're not talking about the
• 31:41
  Speaker 13: consequences on what these decisions mean for American freedom, using
• 31:46
  Speaker 13: that word explicitly, and American safety and the safety of
• 31:51
  Speaker 13: our children to grow up in a society where they
• 31:53
  Speaker 13: are safe and free. And there's a different sort of
• 31:57
  Speaker 13: words that we should start using in a world where
• 31:59
  Speaker 13: a woman can be incarcerated for treating her own body
• 32:02
  Speaker 13: and a world where a kid going to Highland Park
• 32:05
  Speaker 13: can be murdered in front of their parents.
• 32:08
  Speaker 12: Freedom, safety.
• 32:10
  Speaker 13: These are words that Karl Rove would have used in
• 32:12
  Speaker 13: the 1990s. These are now words that Democrats should be
• 32:16
  Speaker 13: owning because they are core to our own culture and
• 32:19
  Speaker 13: they are core to what Americans are thinking about every day,
• 32:22
  Speaker 13: especially parents who are very, very scared.
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: After the break, a reality check on the impact of
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: the January 6th hearings. And our panelists dig into what
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: rights are on the ballot for Pennsylvanians this fall. Welcome back.
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: So we left off from our panel talking about what
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: to make of voters' fears. And jumping right back in,
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: I asked Malcolm, Rebecca, and Dan to dig into what's
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: really at stake for folks in Pennsylvania this upcoming midterms.
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: So I think we'll definitely have a language issue, like
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: you mentioned, in this next issue. I asked which issues
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: don't get enough media attention. And people said things like
• 33:08
  Speaker 5: the economy and health care and education. Then I asked
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: which issues are getting too much media attention. And here's
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: what I heard.
• 33:13
  Speaker 9: I was going to say like old stuff.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Like I saw the news tonight when I was eating
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: dinner before I came here. They were talking about the
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Capitol riot last year.
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: I feel like it's time to.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Move on and like There's a lot of issues right now,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: like inflation, gas prices, and everything else. I wish the
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: politicians would focus on things now instead of stuff that
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: happened almost two years ago.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: Andrew mentioned the January 6th attacks, the investigation into January 6th.
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: How much are all of you paying attention to the
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: investigation into the January 6th attacks?
• 33:47
  Speaker 8: Not at all.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Not at all?
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Not at all.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: No, not currently.
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: So do any of you plan to watch the primetime
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: hearings this week? I didn't watch Johnny Depp and Amber Heard.
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: I didn't know there were hearings.
• 34:02
  Speaker 16: My biggest concern with it is more about the background
• 34:06
  Speaker 16: of why it happened or why seemingly normal people.
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: Can get caught up in.
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: Now, a few stipulations. This was, of course, right before
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: the hearing started. Most of the groups said they were
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: concerned something like January 6th could happen again. And just
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: about everyone also later said that Trump is at least
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: partially to blame. Most people said fully to blame. But
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: clearly it's not the top issue on voters' minds. So
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: my question to all of you is, how do Democrats
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: get voters to care about the ongoing existential threat to
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: democracy without talking about it a lot? Dan, what do
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: you think?
• 34:40
  Speaker 13: I think it's another time when we Democrats, whoever you
• 34:44
  Speaker 13: want to call it, mistakenly believe that people care about
• 34:47
  Speaker 13: process over consequences. Hearings, that, sausage making, all that stuff, etc.,
• 34:54
  Speaker 13: The reality is that these people murdered police officers. That's
• 34:58
  Speaker 13: all that matters. They murdered cops. You don't need all
• 35:02
  Speaker 13: this other kind of things around it. And I don't
• 35:04
  Speaker 13: think January 6th is the point, but you want to
• 35:07
  Speaker 13: use it as an element of the brand narrative that
• 35:10
  Speaker 13: you're trying to build. And we have this incredible moment
• 35:13
  Speaker 13: now because we both have.
• 35:14
  Speaker 12: A SCOTUS decision.
• 35:16
  Speaker 13: I think the exercise that everybody should be doing right now,
• 35:20
  Speaker 13: every campaign, party committee, whatever, is to look at the
• 35:24
  Speaker 13: electorate and say 45% of the electorate is Republican. 60%
• 35:30
  Speaker 13: of Americans find this decision deeply unpopular. But more importantly,
• 35:36
  Speaker 13: among that 45% of Republicans, nearly 20 to 25% of
• 35:42
  Speaker 13: them actually disagree with the policy. But you really need
• 35:46
  Speaker 13: to fixate on this part of the electorate, these Republicans,
• 35:50
  Speaker 13: 20% of their electorate is now sitting in a position
• 35:53
  Speaker 13: being like, What the fuck just happened, dude?
• 35:56
  Speaker 12: This is messed up.
• 35:57
  Speaker 13: And how do we think about capturing that 20% of
• 36:01
  Speaker 13: their population, which when you add it up, you're talking
• 36:03
  Speaker 13: about 20 million Americans who are in the Republican camp,
• 36:07
  Speaker 13: have always voted Republican, and now deeply disagree with this decision.
• 36:11
  Speaker 13: 20 million Americans. This is a huge critical mass. And
• 36:16
  Speaker 13: exactly digging into who those 20 million people are is
• 36:19
  Speaker 13: going to be the difference between whether we win and
• 36:22
  Speaker 13: whether we lose. And it's an opportunity, but the framing
• 36:25
  Speaker 13: and how we do it is really, really important because
• 36:28
  Speaker 13: it's a lot of folks and they could go either way.
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: So I thought democracy was a particularly important issue to
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: raise in Pennsylvania because of the governor's race, where a
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: victory by Republican Doug Mastriano would put a supporter of
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: Trump's attempted coup in charge of one of the most
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: important swing states in 2024. But in this group, which
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: had plenty to say about both Senate candidates that we'll
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: hear in a bit, there were only two people who
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: had opinions about Mastriano. even though those two people said
• 36:53
  Speaker 5: he was, one said he was dangerous, one said he
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: was radical. And only one person had an opinion on
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: Josh Shapiro, though that woman said she loved him. Do
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: you guys think that Shapiro can make Mastriano's extremism and
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: democracy a central issue in this campaign? Should he?
• 37:09
  Speaker 7: I mean, I think Shapiro will probably go in on democracy,
• 37:13
  Speaker 7: but even harder, I would say, on abortion, because that is,
• 37:16
  Speaker 7: I think, where the voters are. Because if Doug Mastriano
• 37:19
  Speaker 7: is elected governor, abortion is done in Pennsylvania. There's no exceptions.
• 37:25
  Speaker 7: I think that Mastriano has just a terrible record that
• 37:30
  Speaker 7: Shapiro can just kind of poke at and expose him
• 37:32
  Speaker 7: a little bit.
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: Malcolm, what do you think?
• 37:35
  Speaker 11: You know, I think on the out of their damn minds.
• 37:42
  Speaker 11: And so I think that those things are going to
• 37:45
  Speaker 11: really matter. And I hope that, I almost called him
• 37:47
  Speaker 11: Governor Shapiro, a good Freudian slip there. But I hope
• 37:50
  Speaker 11: that the team plays every day when he said that
• 37:54
  Speaker 11: his number one issue, if he were governor, back to
• 37:56
  Speaker 11: what Rebecca said, and Doug Mascherano said this, his number
• 37:59
  Speaker 11: one issue is banning all of abortion. I mean, you
• 38:02
  Speaker 11: don't have to get creative with this. You don't need
• 38:04
  Speaker 11: to do anything. You just play that.
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: So I want to get to the subject near and
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: dear to Malcolm and Rebecca's heart, the Pennsylvania Senate race.
• 38:13
  Speaker 5: Towards the end of the session, I asked the group
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: if they were planning to vote in the midterms and
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: if they had settled on a specific Senate candidate. Here's
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: what they said.
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: For those of you who are planning to vote, how
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: many of you have made up your minds about who.
• 38:26
  Speaker 8: You voted for?
• 38:27
  Speaker 6: I didn't. You haven't? I didn't.
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: I voted in the primary for Federer. Have you made
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: up your mind about November?
• 38:32
  Speaker 6: Yes. Yes.
• 38:34
  Speaker 15: I've read.
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: I've researched.
• 38:35
  Speaker 8: He might look strange, but.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: I think he has some things that I thought might
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: be good for the country.
• 38:43
  Speaker 8: Maybe he seems down to earth more.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Maybe crazy.
• 38:48
  Speaker 15: I don't know.
• 38:50
  Speaker 8: But I just thought that he might be something new
• 38:53
  Speaker 8: that we need.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: I don't particularly like him, but I respect the fact
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: that he didn't go to the lieutenant governor's mansion or
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: he turns down a lot of that. He's not impressed
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: by people's money.
• 39:05
  Speaker 8: He's not going to.
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: Be bought off.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: I don't like him, but I respect that about him
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: and think that's a nice stance. He stands up for
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: what he believes in.
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: He took a town like Clareton and really put a
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: lot of work into it.
• 39:18
  Speaker 14: 100% for him because he's one of the people, when
• 39:19
  Speaker 14: you ask him a question, he will answer.
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: And if he doesn't know, he's going to search for it.
• 39:26
  Speaker 8: And does he.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Have some flaws?
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: Heck yeah, but at least he's authentic.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: About his flaws compared to the other ones trying to
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: sweep him underneath the carpet.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: He seems like he's very aggressive at what he does
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: in a good way, and he's not like your typical
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: politician in that respect. What do y'all think about the
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: Republican nominee for.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: Senate, Dr.
• 39:44
  Speaker 6: House? Scary.
• 39:45
  Speaker 11: Yes. Yeah, scary.
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: He's not a Pennsylvania candidate.
• 39:49
  Speaker 8: Not in Pennsylvania.
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: What's he doing here?
• 39:53
  Speaker 14: How is that even allowed?
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Someone who's not from the state able to run.
• 39:58
  Speaker 8: For one of our Senate seats, which is so important.
• 40:01
  Speaker 8: And then win.
• 40:03
  Speaker 11: That's what's really scary.
• 40:05
  Speaker 8: What does he really care about Pennsylvania?
• 40:08
  Speaker 14: If you can't even live here, then you have no idea.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: I think it's a little bit of a fraud.
• 40:14
  Speaker 8: He's a doctor, right?
• 40:15
  Speaker 16: He has a show that has a lot of influence,
• 40:17
  Speaker 16: and then he There's been episodes where he's pushed alternative
• 40:20
  Speaker 16: medicine that might be dangerous for people. So that just
• 40:23
  Speaker 16: shows a compromise of integrity.
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: Whether or not he actually believes what he's saying. I mean,
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: that definitely puts him in a bad way in that sense.
• 40:31
  Speaker 5: So, Rebecca, the only somewhat negative comment about Fetterman was
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: from that guy who said he didn't like him but
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: still respected him. That happens to be the only person
• 40:39
  Speaker 5: in the entire group who said he'd consider voting for
• 40:42
  Speaker 5: Trump in 2024 again. It's maybe the best focus group
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: review I've heard of any candidate in three years of
• 40:48
  Speaker 5: doing the wilderness. So as someone who's working with him,
• 40:51
  Speaker 5: my question is, how much of the appeal do you
• 40:54
  Speaker 5: think is unique to your guy and how much can
• 40:58
  Speaker 5: be replicated by other Democratic candidates? I mean.
• 41:03
  Speaker 8: You don't want to get to a situation where like,
• 41:04
  Speaker 8: hopefully we win.
• 41:06
  Speaker 7: And then everybody's going around wearing like Dickies and card hearts,
• 41:08
  Speaker 7: you know, like trying to be like it works because
• 41:11
  Speaker 7: it's not fake.
• 41:13
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 41:13
  Speaker 8: Like he is. This is who he is. And I
• 41:16
  Speaker 8: think people respect that.
• 41:17
  Speaker 7: What I will say is, yes, John will say he
• 41:19
  Speaker 7: doesn't look like a typical politician because he doesn't even
• 41:22
  Speaker 7: look like a typical person.
• 41:24
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 41:24
  Speaker 7: They think they know that he understands what they're going through.
• 41:28
  Speaker 7: And that personal connection, it doesn't have to have the
• 41:31
  Speaker 7: look of John Fetterman for a candidate to connect with
• 41:35
  Speaker 7: a voter. And I think we've spent way too long
• 41:39
  Speaker 7: with cookie cutter candidates that get the whole machine behind them.
• 41:43
  Speaker 7: I think voters are hungry for somebody different who can
• 41:46
  Speaker 7: speak to what they're going through.
• 41:48
  Speaker 8: And to the point we were saying earlier, it's not
• 41:50
  Speaker 8: just about process.
• 41:51
  Speaker 7: It's about speaking to these consequences of people's lives.
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: Malcolm, you were in against Fetterman in the primary.
• 41:57
  Speaker 9: I remember that.
• 42:00
  Speaker 5: Just to catch people up. Obviously, he had name recognition
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: and money, but what qualities do you think helped him win?
• 42:07
  Speaker 5: And what do you think he has to watch out
• 42:09
  Speaker 5: for in the general?
• 42:11
  Speaker 11: So I think to Rebecca's point, it's not about somebody
• 42:15
  Speaker 11: being John, because John is John.
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: I suspect I'm the only mayor in America that can
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: say that he lives... directly across the street of a
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: steel mill.
• 42:25
  Speaker 9: My family and I live in.
• 42:27
  Speaker 11: An old car dealership And so we're not going to
• 42:29
  Speaker 11: be able to have a candidate who can replicate him.
• 42:33
  Speaker 11: We're not going to have a candidate who can be
• 42:35
  Speaker 11: a Black gay kid from North Philly. You're not going
• 42:37
  Speaker 11: to be able to replicate that exactly. And I think
• 42:40
  Speaker 11: that that really matters, that you can have candidates who
• 42:44
  Speaker 11: are themselves. And I think that that is something that
• 42:47
  Speaker 11: John absolutely has.
• 42:49
  Speaker 7: You never get candidates like this who can get through
• 42:51
  Speaker 7: a primary. There must be other candidates like this, but
• 42:55
  Speaker 7: usually there's an establishment candidate who— who Washington likes and
• 42:58
  Speaker 7: they think is more electable. And that person can just
• 43:02
  Speaker 7: go in and win the primaries. And then that becomes
• 43:04
  Speaker 7: the candidate.
• 43:05
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 43:06
  Speaker 5: Dan, is Oz the perfect foil for Fetterman? And do
• 43:09
  Speaker 5: you think that there are lessons for other Democratic candidates,
• 43:13
  Speaker 5: either from how Fetterman campaigns for himself or how he
• 43:17
  Speaker 5: campaigns against Oz? Because I know as I'm following this
• 43:20
  Speaker 5: whole thing on Twitter, Every time I see Rebecca having
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: a good time with Oz and the houses, I'm like,
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: I keep saying to everyone, I'm like, God, Democrats used
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: to run campaigns like this all the time. This is
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: a fun campaign. Why don't Democrats do that anymore?
• 43:34
  Speaker 9: That's $ 20 for Crouton. That's outrageous. We got Joe Biden
• 43:37
  Speaker 9: to thank for this.
• 43:38
  Speaker 13: I guess I'll disagree with the premise that candidates who
• 43:42
  Speaker 13: are themselves do better.
• 43:44
  Speaker 12: Because Dr. Oz, I think, is being himself, but.
• 43:50
  Speaker 13: He's just a sociopath. So by virtue of him showing
• 43:54
  Speaker 13: that he's a sociopath, I'm not sure that's going to
• 43:57
  Speaker 13: help him win. But I think from a campaign tactical
• 44:02
  Speaker 13: point of view, what I think they're doing successfully is
• 44:05
  Speaker 13: framing the brand of their opponent very early on. It's
• 44:07
  Speaker 13: something that we did in 2012, and we committed resources
• 44:11
  Speaker 13: around it. And so I think A lot of these
• 44:14
  Speaker 13: Democratic candidates, the challenge with like a conventional messaging schedule is, okay,
• 44:18
  Speaker 13: I do this and I make my dumb contrast ads
• 44:20
  Speaker 13: and I do this, is it takes away from the
• 44:23
  Speaker 13: creativity of like really solid campaigning is I need to
• 44:28
  Speaker 13: create a narrative about my opponent to make people believe
• 44:33
  Speaker 13: XYZ about them. In this case, that he's a rich sociopath.
• 44:38
  Speaker 13: And do that very early and often. So you're kind
• 44:40
  Speaker 13: of like setting the bio of your opponent. And that
• 44:42
  Speaker 13: takes a lot of creativity. It requires a really solid
• 44:45
  Speaker 13: digital team, which a lot of people don't have, and
• 44:48
  Speaker 13: it's not entirely formulaic. So just watching the race from
• 44:50
  Speaker 13: the outside, it seems like it mimics a lot of
• 44:52
  Speaker 13: the successful campaigns, especially the creativity.
• 44:56
  Speaker 11: And John, I didn't get to answer your other point
• 44:58
  Speaker 11: about not that they need my advice.
• 44:59
  Speaker 9: They beat me, but still, I'm going to give my
• 45:01
  Speaker 9: advice in that. Nevertheless.
• 45:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, please.
• 45:03
  Speaker 9: Two words. Well, three words. Philadelphia. and Black voters.
• 45:09
  Speaker 11: And obviously, I'm going to work my tail off to
• 45:11
  Speaker 11: help in that regard. But I think, you know, the
• 45:14
  Speaker 11: more time that John can be in Philly, and I
• 45:17
  Speaker 11: know Rebecca's listening to me, the better. Because these are
• 45:20
  Speaker 11: voters who are not voting for Dr.
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: Oz.
• 45:22
  Speaker 9: Let me be very clear. They're not fucking voting for Dr. Oz.
• 45:25
  Speaker 11: But the question is, are they going to stay home
• 45:28
  Speaker 11: just because they're frustrated? And I hear that frustration every
• 45:32
  Speaker 11: single day and cracking that nut of getting that turnout
• 45:35
  Speaker 11: in Philadelphia, you know, as high as we possibly can.
• 45:38
  Speaker 11: That's going to be a big part of making sure
• 45:39
  Speaker 11: John wins, Josh wins, and everybody else wins. So I'm
• 45:43
  Speaker 11: always pro having statewide candidates come to Philadelphia.
• 45:48
  Speaker 5: On that note, you've all been very generous with your time.
• 45:51
  Speaker 5: Malcolm Kenyatta, Rebecca Katz, Dan Wagner, thank you so much
• 45:54
  Speaker 5: for joining The Wilderness.
• 45:56
  Speaker 8: Thank you. Good to see you.
• 45:56
  Speaker 9: Happy to do it.
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: Thanks so much, John. We started this episode talking about
• 46:01
  Speaker 5: the threat to democracy from MAGA candidates like Doug Mastriano.
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: It's a threat that all of us who follow politics
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: closely understand well, since it's rightly received a lot of
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: media coverage. We're all familiar with the headlines from the
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: January 6th hearings, the investigations into Donald Trump, and the
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: assault on voting rights and democratic norms that's coming from
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: right-wing courts and state legislatures. We feel a sense of
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: urgency around these issues because we consume news about them
• 46:25
  Speaker 5: every day. The voters I talked to in Pittsburgh were
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: either too busy to follow politics, too confused by all
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: the details, or too disgusted by the spectacle. They felt
• 46:36
  Speaker 5: a sense of urgency around a set of issues that
• 46:38
  Speaker 5: have also received lots of coverage, but tend to have
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: more personal and immediate impacts. The cost of food and
• 46:44
  Speaker 5: gas and rent, mass shootings and abortion bans. And they
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: don't have much confidence that politicians can fix those problems.
• 46:52
  Speaker 5: At least not the same kind of politicians that haven't
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: fixed them in the past. which helps explain why they
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: seem to like John Fetterman. It's not like he's new
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: to politics. The guy's been in elected office since 2006,
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: first as a mayor, now as lieutenant governor. But he
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: doesn't look like a typical politician, and he doesn't talk
• 47:10
  Speaker 5: like a typical politician. He talks like a normal human
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: being would talk to their friends. He's not scared of
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: saying something a little weird or off. He generally says
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: what he thinks, a quality that even a former Trump
• 47:21
  Speaker 5: supporter in our focus group appreciated.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: He's not impressed by people's money. He's not going to
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: be bought off. I don't like him, but I respect
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: that about him and think that that's a nice stance.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: He stands up for.
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: What he believes in.
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: For the vast majority of voters who think that the
• 47:38
  Speaker 5: country is headed in the wrong direction, a candidate who
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: doesn't seem like a typical politician can be appealing. It's
• 47:44
  Speaker 5: a sentiment we also heard from the swing voters I
• 47:46
  Speaker 5: spoke to in Virginia.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: I just, you know, it comes down to why can't
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: we bring a better candidate forward?
• 47:52
  Speaker 8: I think we need new energy.
• 47:54
  Speaker 16: New blood.
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: In a normal midterm year, you might listen to these
• 47:58
  Speaker 5: voters and think that while an outsider like Fetterman has
• 48:00
  Speaker 5: a decent chance, most longtime Democratic incumbents don't. If people
• 48:05
  Speaker 5: think that Washington is broken, they tend to punish the
• 48:07
  Speaker 5: party that's running the place. And it's possible that happens
• 48:10
  Speaker 5: in a lot of these toss-up races, especially in the House.
• 48:13
  Speaker 5: But it's also possible that 2022 is different. And that's
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: because the alternative to voting for Democratic governance, however imperfect
• 48:21
  Speaker 5: it may seem, is voting for candidates like Doug Mastriano
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: and Dr. Oz, MAGA loyalists who are out-of-touch wackos at
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: best and dangerous threats to democracy at worst. The key
• 48:33
  Speaker 5: for Democrats, though, is to make that case to voters
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: in a way that connects with the fears and anxieties
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: that are on the minds of people who don't pay
• 48:41
  Speaker 5: that much attention to politics. If Democrats want disengaged voters
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: to care about saving democracy, they have to campaign like
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: democracy is worth saving, A true grassroots democracy where you
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: listen and learn from the people you want to represent.
• 48:57
  Speaker 5: Where you show that you actually give a shit about
• 48:59
  Speaker 5: their problems and are willing to fight like hell to
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: fix them.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: When people choose to not vote, it is because they
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: don't see something to fight for and somebody who wants
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: to fight for them. And so we can't settle for
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: somebody who's going to do the bare minimum. At this
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: moment in our country, we have to be putting people
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: forward who are fighting for what real people actually need.
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: This is Alex from Pennsylvania United, the organization we heard
• 49:20
  Speaker 5: from at the beginning of this episode. The ones who
• 49:23
  Speaker 5: are trying to reach disconnected voters one door at a time.
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: That's how we can start to rebuild people's faith in democracy.
• 49:29
  Speaker 5: And as PA United organizer LaShawn McBride tells us, that's
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: how we can start to enlist the next generation in
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: the fight to save it.
• 49:37
  Speaker 14: I'm a mother of eight children. 30 grandchildren. And when
• 49:42
  Speaker 14: I go canvas, it meant the world to have my
• 49:47
  Speaker 14: 18-year-old granddaughter and her saying, okay, now what do I do?
• 49:52
  Speaker 14: And I'm showing her on her phone. So I have
• 49:56
  Speaker 14: now just put something in her that I know I'm
• 50:00
  Speaker 14: going to see her fight again for something that's important
• 50:04
  Speaker 14: to her. And I'm not scared of a conversation that
• 50:07
  Speaker 14: might not be so positive. That's okay because that's real.
• 50:12
  Speaker 14: We are real people talking to real people on the
• 50:16
  Speaker 14: other side of the door. So expect anything. Don't settle
• 50:22
  Speaker 14: for nothing. And just keep knocking, keep talking, and keep rocking.
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: Keep knocking, keep talking, and keep rocking. I like it.
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: And speaking of getting future generations involved, next week we're
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: headed to Orange County, California, a former Republican stronghold where
• 50:42
  Speaker 5: I'll talk to a group of 20-somethings who helped turn
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: the area blue by casting their very first ballot for
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: Joe Biden. The question is, will they show up again?
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: How many of you plan on voting in the midterm
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: elections this November?
• 50:57
  Speaker 9: What is that?
• 51:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so we got some work to do. See you
• 51:03
  Speaker 5: next time on The Wilderness. The Wilderness is an original
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: podcast from Crooked Media. Season 3 is produced by Dust
• 51:27
  Speaker 5: Light Productions. I'm your host, Jon Favreau. From Crooked Media,
• 51:31
  Speaker 5: our executive producers are Sarah Geismar, Katie Long, and me.
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  Speaker 5: Special thanks to Allison Falsetta and Andy Taft for production support.
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  Speaker 5: and to Mike Kulishek from Benenson Strategy Group, who helped
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  Speaker 5: us with our focus groups. From Dustlight, our executive producer
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  Speaker 5: is Misha Youssef. Arwen Nix is our executive editor. Stephanie
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  Speaker 5: Cohn is the senior producer. Tamika Adams is the producer,
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  Speaker 5: and Francesca Diaz is the assistant producer. This episode was
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  Speaker 5: sound designed by Tamika Adams. Valentino Rivera is our senior engineer.
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  Speaker 5: Martin Fowler is the composer. Thanks to our development and
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  Speaker 5: operations coordinator at Dustlight, Rachel Garcia, and to Chrissy Marin
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  Speaker 5: for archival legal review. If you want to learn more
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  Speaker 5: about how you can take action in the fight for
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  Speaker 5: our democracy, head over to votesaveamerica.com slash midterms.