Latest / Welcome Home. Here, Us, Now. / Gospel-Rooted Help with Tom De Vries -- Episode 2

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Gospel-Rooted Help with Tom De Vries -- Episode 2 · Welcome Home. Here, Us, Now.

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome home, Hear Us Now, a podcast of the Union Gospel Mission of Terrent County, a space for all of us seeking what's real and sacred in a world that rushes past the soul.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, hello, this is Eric Engelman.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: I am in the studio at Union Gospel Mission at Terrant County.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: And next to me is Father Rogers Meredith.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: How are you doing, sir?
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm well, thank you.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: We are actually just extending a previous recording session, and uh we had some chance to talk, and so we're going to continue some time with Tom DeVries.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: How are you doing, sir?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: Doing well, Eric.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: Great to be here and great to be able to talk about some of the exciting things God's doing both here in Tarrant County and throughout North America.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: As I mentioned before we uh we started recording again, you've worked with multiplication, especially church multiplication, and we're kind of interested in maybe helping disciples multiply their discipleship in whatever area they're in, be it downtown Fort Worth or on the job.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe a little bit what how to carry out some of the love of Jesus and what that looks like.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: You have thoughts you want to share?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: We'd love to.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think you it really starts with uh the understanding of what a disciple is.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: And certainly we look at Jesus and the disciples.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: And often in uh that time 2,000 years ago, as we read through the New Testament, rabbis had disciples.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh disciple, actually in the Greek, means one who learns.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so when you understand what discipleship is about, it really is uh both a formal and informal pathway of learning to live in love like Jesus.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: And how does that happen?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: And often proximity is a part of that in being around people who live in love like Jesus so that we can see it modeled, see examples of it.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh certainly the the disciples were that way in the life of Jesus in a in a significant way.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: But in addition to that, it also is founded on the word and the importance of God's word to helping form who we are.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: We often think about uh uh Romans 8, right?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: And we use that verse, all things work together for good, to those who love God and are called according to his purpose.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: But it goes on to talk about how we um really are conformed to the image of Jesus, that that's really uh who we are as Christ followers and how that happens.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: The Apostle Paul talked about it in 1 Corinthians 11 1, where he said, imitate me as I imitate Christ, uh, that ultimately there are those who go before us that we can see what it means to live and love like Jesus in their lives.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: And it's founded on the Word of God, and it happens in proximity.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: I think for us at City Gate Network and here at UGM Tarrant County, discipleship is is very much about how we help people to overcome the challenges that they're facing in life.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: Those can be around experiencing homelessness.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: They also can be around addiction and mental health.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and we can see the power of the gospel in helping to form people and know Jesus better to be able to overcome those things that challenge them and that we see them uh sometimes fighting with, uh find sometimes causing pain and brokenness, uh, but often can lead them to a place of uh of hope and healing uh as we share what following Christ means to us.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Do you got anything to add to that, sir?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing to add, certainly.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I was what listen can I just maybe shift directions just for a minute?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is not one of your buzzwords, but as you were talking about that, I was thinking about something.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm also priest in charge of an Anglican church near here.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a parishioner ask me, um, aren't all those people at the mission just lazy?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, not really.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there probably are some, but by and large, all the lazy people I know have jobs, and they've got really good jobs usually.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So there's sort of a stigma attached to homelessness.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think there's a lot of people that think that homelessness is even a sin.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: That it's not a sin to be homeless at all.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if you wanted to be homeless, she'd be fine, you know.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: We do want to think about the common good of society and those sorts of things.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you want to talk a little, could you talk just a little bit about that, about the stigma and how I mean I don't know if you want to use the word normalize, yeah, but uh decriminalize.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's not against the law to be homeless.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: We were just talking to a guy yesterday, and um he's a little different, you know.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he's really smart, and I had a per another person that was showing around, and we talked, we're actually talking about something like I'm sick and tired of talking about the book of Enoch.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I have to get answer all these things about the book of Enoch.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: This guy was sure it was part of the Apocrypha.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: I said, No, it's not part of the Apocrypha.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: He whooped out his phone.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, You're right.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I know I'm right.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: I actually know something about this stuff, right?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: I got a divinity degree, right?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: But so we finished the conversation, we're walking off, and the guy asked me, What do you think's wrong with that guy?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I don't think there's anything wrong with him.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: She goes, Does he have addictions?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: I said, No, I've never seen him even drunk.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, why is he out on the street?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, probably something happened to him, but maybe he just is.
• 5:49
  unknown: Yeah.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: And he doesn't need you to fix him.
• 5:54
  unknown: Yeah.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: What do what do you think about that?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Father Rogers, I I I I agree that there there are a multiplicity of factors of why people are are living on the street or choosing.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: And often you're right, there is uh uh a choice.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh for others, there's been life circumstances that have also uh contributed to that.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: And also, you know, as we've experienced in this room in conversations with folks that have been part of our ministries, um, there are issues of of wiring and choices that they've made uh previously that also contribute uh to all of those things.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um of the things so when we when we look at um folks experiencing homelessness that we minister to through the missions and ministries of Citigate Network, um, it could easily be uh 70 to 80 percent of the people do struggle with a substance abuse uh disorder of some kind or uh a mental health challenge uh of some kind.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um one of the common factors around those things really is the behaviors then that led them to burn through their relationships uh and the social safety net that often uh is family or people who care about them uh who are often around them.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um sometimes it'll be, yeah, that they just want to be feel the freedom of being able to choose where they live and where they sleep when they want to, uh, and that's a part of it.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's probably not the the largest population, um, but the largest population would um would in some way uh have burned through their relationships in a significant way.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and people finally people who love them, people who've wanted to help them in the past finally looked and said, we don't know what to do, uh, or we're not sure that we can there's anything that we can do to really help.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's a that's really good because you're right.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: There are, I mean, a lot of these people have, I don't want just to repeat what you said, they burn through their relationships.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: When and with that in mind, that what makes that's what makes it often very difficult to work with these folks.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because they don't have they just don't have a lot of the well, they've they've not been successful at maintaining relationships, right?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so just to try to get them to do things, to disciple them, right?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's difficult.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: It takes a whole different it takes a different approach.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but you know, as I think about it, about in Jesus' day, right?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there were tons of people that were homeless and it didn't bother anybody.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Think of Diogenes, you know who Diogenes was, right?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Lived in a barrel, hung out with the dogs, walked over walked through the streets of the city with a lamp looking for a wise man.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now he's a Greek, though, right?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: He's not in Israel.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm just thinking of the old the ancient world, yeah.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: No, and you do, you look and you recognize that uh oftentimes there's questions of emotional intelligence or socialization or even what we sometimes call soft skills and the abilities to be able to interact in ways that uh yeah, would be considered normal or abnormal or something that way.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: I found myself um actually living in a mission back when I was in a 20, in my twenties.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um through some the change of circumstances, but mainly because I didn't listen to the stuff my parents had told me.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I'm actually, I mean, I I it it never bothered me.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: It that actually didn't bother me.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's 20 years old.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to get, you know, and it's a lot different world.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: But um looking back on that, thinking that's how I and you know, I had something happen to me, just an accident, yeah, that it through a chain of circumstances ended up with me getting kicked out of my apartment.
• 9:43
  unknown: Yes.
• 9:43
  unknown: Yeah.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um and you know, one thing kind of led to another.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't really do anything wrong.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: I just didn't do a lot of things, little things right.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a difference there.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there is yeah, yeah.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: And a a lot uh of folks are just one uh difficult financial situation or is a decision away.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah uh and they can easily end up on the streets, especially in in the the economy of today, the challenges of today, uh the cost of what that looks like, living from paycheck to paycheck, uh how expensive it is sometimes even to get groceries.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it is really, really difficult.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so having uh a place that says we're here for you no matter what, uh is really, really significant.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you have to pick up the pieces, yeah.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: So um back to what we're talking about, folks who've burned through their their safety net, yeah.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: There you really can't divert them to back to the family because the family don't want them.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And they may be young.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So but they're gonna go through your program.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want them wrecking your program, right?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because and I've you probably know this, you can't let little, you know, the little foxes spoil the grapes, right?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't just let things go.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: You can let a little few of some things go, but you really just can't let a lot of things go because it builds.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So how how how insistive are you guys on people maintaining the rules, doing what they said they're gonna do?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh how how do you discipline people when they don't?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's part of discipleship, obviously.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Then you get how do you get to the point where you guys put them out for a few days at first, and then after that, you know, you're done.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean it's not an easy thing to do, but you got to think of the bigger picture of the other people here.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and some of it sometimes comes down to uh readiness for change uh and to make that change.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: But but where do you how do you work that out is what I'm asking you.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: And and when they come in and they say, Yes, uh, I'm ready to make the change, uh, then we're able to say, here then are some of the parameters uh to live within.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, because we have found that um being able to lay out some of those guidelines and guardrails help them to be able to overcome some of the issues that they've been dealing with previously.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's a learning experience, it's a growing experience, uh, it truly is a developmental process.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and what you have that's different is you have people uh that are serving in our missions and ministries who are saying we're willing to walk alongside you and walk with you.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of these folks, I think back to a friend of mine, um, I don't want to uh monopolize, but a lot of what happens is these people just stopped.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're like a bug caught in amber.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're just suspended in time, about 16 years old.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think of a friend of mine that uh had been to prison a bunch of times, and uh had occasion to visit his folks.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: A friend of ours, mutual friend, found out I was going over there and he said, Go in his room, and there's some pictures from a concert we went to back in the 90s.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, That's not gonna still be there.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, Oh, it'll be there.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I walked into his room and it looked just like it did when he was in high school.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he he was in prison now.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: This guy got in a lot of trouble in his life.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: He ended up.
• 13:14
  unknown: Yeah.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: But what happened was he just got stuck.
• 13:17
  unknown: Right.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: And what's gotta happen with these folks that are here, that's happened to them, a lot of them, and we've got to be able to so they burn through their guardrails is what they did.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna put guardrails up, but they haven't been successful with that.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: We've got to have figure out how and to to do that to get them to come out, to undo them, to to get them unstuck so they can go on and become 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, even if they're 67.
• 13:45
  unknown: Yeah.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: And often what you're describing, Father Rogers, is um that point at which they experience the worst trauma of their life froze their life at that moment.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: And often it can be as a child or as a teenager, and they don't know then how to move beyond that.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so being able to bring them into places where we're able to help them then uh learn and grow as if they were a 12, 13, 16, 17 year old uh and go from there is critical.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: It can be trauma.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: But it can also just be a little folding of the hands, sure.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: A little shuffling of the feet.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't think that this was going anywhere.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you look back five years back and you think, wow, now look what's happened.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Trauma, I mean, we're the trauma definitely is something we you know, we don't ask what's wrong with you, we ask what happened to you.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: But whichever it may be, yeah, I don't think it's always trauma, actually.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's not it's not always, but they're that can be it.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: It can be it.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: And it also could be things where again they're making choices in their life to yeah, say, hey, this is where it stops.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then suddenly before you know, I mean, think of the Pete Floyd's song at this point.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Ten years have gone behind, no one told you when to run, you miss the starting gun.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: I've I've talked to people like that who look and they can define a decade of their life that they wish they could have back.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh because they continued those behaviors and that lifestyle, and it got them nowhere.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, it sent them in a bad direction.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: And uh and it's just out of the choices that they made, and maybe they regret now.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: They probably do regret now.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and now they're ready, again, that readiness piece to step out and be able to move forward, and they do need the help uh and community of people to be able to do that.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Particularly at that point now, they're at that far, much farther down the road.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: But you can say to me, well, you can have it back, actually.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:45
  unknown: Yeah.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing that we find out here, I found, is that once you open the door of hope, once someone starts to believe that there's a possibility for tomorrow, they will.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna go.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you if you build them, they will go.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: Very true.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: And and that really is, again, part of the the developmental growth and process is to get them back uh in a place where they can be um welcomed warmly into a congregation of faith.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell, well they begin to almost function normally again.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then normally as a Christian, the the normal outcome, the expected outcome of that generally speaking, is going to be to go to church.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we've we've had a good time.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to close it up quite yet.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we just want to see if there are any one-liners or two liners the people around the table want to mention before uh we finish this second episode talking to Tom DeVries.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: Any thoughts?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I've sucked all the air out of the room already.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's uh, you know, the mission, I think for us, we have to decide where we are and what we are.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not sure that we know that.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like someone will say, I'll share this to Eric.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're a homeless shelter.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, well, so is a cardboard box.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to tell me what that means.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: We need to know what that means.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: We need to know what that means.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: We know what it what it is, and then how it works out.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think moving for the future, that is the most important thing to know is who you are and what you want to do.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Who you are and what do you want to do.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can ask the question, how do we want to do it?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Those are basic questions.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: They're very basic questions, but they're they're hard.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: The reason they don't get answered answered often and there's ambiguity is because they're hard to answer.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're really hard to answer.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like the question about how do you get people to go to church?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can't do it.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: We can't do that here.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not we can't do it.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: What I appreciate about that, Father Rogers, is that our as our missions and ministries exist in their context, they define those things differently for where God has placed them and what God has called them to do and be.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so if um what's happening here in Tarrant County uh is going to be different than it is in Seattle or Miami or New York City, uh, and it's wonderful to see how that works.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: And Philadelphia Philly House is 500 a 500 men shelter.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: In Charlotte, uh North Carolina, it is an addiction recovery center uh that is totally focused on that.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: And they know what God's called them to do and be in that community, and they're trying to live that's a very good thing.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really good.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's I'll thank you because that's exactly what I'm saying.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: We need to figure out are we a or are we a, or are we a, or are we some kind of chimera of all those things, right?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, exactly.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if we are, how do we survive?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so again, following the Spirit's leading in this and being clear around that and taking the time to to listen and learn before you move out and love and lead is uh really an important process.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: That looks like a real good place for me to offer up a closing prayer.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Father in heaven, in Jesus' name.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Holy Spirit, for for leading us and guiding us who surrender to Jesus, who honor the blood of Jesus, and are wanting to be renewed in in the image of Jesus.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Lord, thank you for your love and how you live it out here among us in this in this studio at Union Gospel Mission in City Gate Network, and uh for our listeners uh around the around the earth.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Lord, uh your kingdom come, your will be done, we bless the name of Jesus.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta tell me about Skid Row.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: That that sounds very controlling.