Latest / Coffee Playdate Podcast with Dr. Olga Deengar / HIPAA-Compliant AI Reviews Ep 37 : How Dr. Mike Jordan Grew His Pediatric Practice with ResponseRx
Transcript
- Dr. Olga Deengar: Welcome to the Coffee Playdate podcast. I have a very special guest with me today, Dr. Mike Jordan. Good. I'm so happy you're here with us. I'm excited to talk to you today. I know we have a lot to cover, so let's get right into it. First question is, do you drink coffee? Dr. Mike Jordan: Hey, Oga, how are you? All right, let's go. No, not really. I've never been a coffee drinker. Dr. Olga Deengar: That's surprising for being a physician. Dr. Mike Jordan: I just never kind of acquired a taste for it and it just never has been important to me. So I think the one time I drank coffee, was at my senior breakfast when I was at the University of Florida. And I typically don't and the person came up at the breakfast to pour me coffee and I kind of waved him off that I didn't want any and it was President Lombardi who was the president at the time of the, at the time at the university. And I was like, no, of course you pour me coffee. So I just drank black coffee then for that was like the first full cup of coffee I ever had. And then probably the last I would think. Dr. Olga Deengar: Did it give you the jitters? Dr. Mike Jordan: I don't think so. I don't remember. It wasn't a huge cup, know, so it was just small and it was just the kind of the thrill of having the president of the university. I didn't expect him to be, it was like a huge crowded room. So I didn't expect him to come around and be the one pouring the coffee, but it was really a nice gesture. I wanted to make sure that I could take part in that. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, wow, that's not one of his typical roles, but. So what is your go-to beverage, Mike? Dr. Mike Jordan: Yeah, he does everything, I guess, you I actually, probably and I'm trying to really cut back but but I what I drink most of the time is caffeine free diet coke and that's what I reach for if I if I had my choice Yeah Yeah Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, great. So we're going to start off with our first game. This is a rapid fire questions game. I'll give you answers to choose between. Just go with the one you like more. You don't need to explain yourself. Just kind of go with your gut instinct. Okay, the first question is, would you rather be confused for Michael Jordan, the basketball player, or will be Jordan the actor? Dr. Mike Jordan: Alright. Okay. Mm-hmm. wow. I've never been confused for Michael B. Jordan, the actor, so probably him. I've always, I don't know if people see me think I'm Michael Jordan, but I always, anytime somebody sees my name for the first time, it's kind of a novelty for them. Right, maybe Michael B. Jordan, just because I've never had that happen. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah. Very good. Yeah, perfect. The next question is newborn visits or teenage checkups? Stethoscope or autoscope? Dr. Mike Jordan: newborn visits. I think I would say, that's a hard one. I think, I think stethoscope. Dr. Olga Deengar: Cool. And last question here, impact on one family or systems that help thousands? Dr. Mike Jordan: I think systems, geez, no, I'm gonna say impact on one family is really nice. It's rewarding. Dr. Olga Deengar: It's hard to choose between them. Dr. Mike Jordan: Yeah, that's really a challenge one. But I wanted to, I don't know, I guess I maybe didn't follow the rules right and kind of hesitated and came up with the other one. But I think in hindsight, impact on one family when you can see that is really rewarding. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, beautiful. The next game is called Take a Sip. It's similar to the first game, but this time we both answer and if our answers match, we take a sip from our cups. Dr. Mike Jordan: Okay, great. Dr. Olga Deengar: First question is, a calm clinic day or an exciting big idea day? Dr. Mike Jordan: an exciting Big Idea Day. Cheers. Dr. Olga Deengar: Me too. Cheers. Next question, legacy building or freedom building? Dr. Mike Jordan: Hmm, I think legacy building. Dr. Olga Deengar: I'd have to say freedom building. Next question here, strawberry or pistachio ice cream? Dr. Mike Jordan: There you go. Okay. I think strawberry. Dr. Olga Deengar: I love pistachio ice cream. Dr. Mike Jordan: We had some pistachio gelato when we were in, when I was in Italy for the wedding I was at. It was very good. yeah, it was very nice. Dr. Olga Deengar: that's delicious. yeah. And last question here is Tokyo or Madrid for the next conference. Dr. Mike Jordan: Tokyo. I've never been there. I would love to go to Japan. Dr. Olga Deengar: I'm going have to say Madrid. I've never been to Madrid. Very good. So Mike, I met you at the conference in Alabama and I was intrigued to find out about what you were building. So I got to know you a little bit there and I want our listeners to get to know you as well. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and the incredible work that you're doing? Dr. Mike Jordan: Okay, there you go. Yeah, excellent. Mm-hmm. Sure. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm a pediatrician and I started my practice Eastlake Pediatrics back in 2004. And it was just me and, an MA and a receptionist and subsequently expanded that in 2007 to another location. I'm in the Tampa Bay area. So went up to Trinity from where we were in Palm Harbor and started adding providers and physicians at that point. and then expanded again to another location most recently, a little bit closer to Tampa in Oldsmar. And we have 10 providers and a licensed clinical social worker. And it's been a very rewarding experience and have been doing that, I guess, for be 22 years in August. And then recently I've been doing less clinical work and working more on the business as opposed to in the business. And as I was doing that, the owner of my marketing company, Carlton, who was with me at the meeting, we started working on trying to figure out how to generate HIPAA compliant review responses. Because, there's a lot of, I think a lot of practice can feel the pain of trying to generate reviews and then the way Google's algorithm now maximizes your visibility based on your velocity of your reviews, the velocity of the responses and the uniqueness of the responses. It was always frustrating for us as healthcare providers that we have to respond to these reviews. Google doesn't care. And that you have to be HIPAA compliant and there's so many rules and there's so many loopholes and so many challenges to making your responses HIPAA compliant and sounding unique and sounding friendly. and, it became kind of this project that we were working on and, I guess we launched it just as me in the, with the pilot in, 2000. 24, about two years ago. And basically it's a program that helps generate reviews. And then we automate the response with a patent pending AI engine that we built that creates HIPAA compliant responses that are in the voice of the practice. So we kind of like scrape the practices voice from their webpage and other social media and things like that. And then we're able to mimic that voice. and transmit responses that you don't have to think about, right? And suddenly we're starting to see as a result of that, we started seeing that my online presence was growing and our new patient registration was growing. And we started with, I think when I started in May of 24, I had like 199 reviews for all three locations and. as of now, I think we're above 2,100 for all three and, star ratings gone from like 4.1 to 4.8 or 4.9. the one location Oldsmar was low. We only had 15 reviews at the time and we had one, one star review, which always killed us. Cause you have all these people that, know, really appreciate you and, and, and love the work that you do and are thankful for that. And you have some people that just, are just satisfied for whatever reason. those voices tend to be a little more vocal and a little more prominent on the review sites because they're more motivated to get out there and leave you a review. And so it was always frustrating that this one person was really weighing us down. But once we started using ResponseRx, which is the company that we formed, negative reviews just kind of get ratioed out. So you have so many positive reviews. and the velocity is helping and when we're able to respond to all of them, it's really increased our new patient registration. So we had gone from, initially we had about 0.4 % of our new patient referrals cited Google as their source of the referral where they found us. And now we're up to about 48 % of our patients find us on Google and our new patients have jumped. From the first year, we went 27 % of an increase for our new patients. And then the second year, we're at 50 % above our baseline. So it's really helped grow our practice. And we've been really focusing on that to really help gather new patients. And one of the best things about it is that it's kind of self-selecting for those patients that are zero to one, because those are the people who are looking on Google to find new physicians, new pediatricians. And so we're really kind of not only getting a bunch of new patients, but we're getting those who are going to be with us for the longest amount of time. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, this is such an interesting idea because as a physician, you don't really think about like how you're going to respond and if it's going to be HIPAA compliant or not. You almost wish like there was some sort of blueprint or guidelines that were provided by Google or other review sites that can help you tailor your response, but I don't think there really is. Dr. Mike Jordan: Mm-hmm. No, like I said, they don't care if you're a healthcare provider. So if you're a dentist or a physician or a med spa, you're all bound by HIPAA and you have to protect the protected health information. You have a unilateral obligation to honor that. And so you can't say silly things like, you just, anything you do that confirms the relationship is a HIPAA violation and the OCR could come down on you because of that. And so simple things like, saying thank you for sharing your experience. Well, if they've shared an experience and you've confirmed that, now you've confirmed they're a patient. Or if you say, hey, Denise, thank you so much for your kind words, by using the first name, that also would confirm them being a patient. And there's all kinds of subtleties. So it's very difficult. It's a very kind of unique and narrow needle that you have to thread to be able to sound like, like I said, to sound like you're being personable and it's talking to the patient in your voice and not accidentally slipping up and confirming that they're a patient or part of your practice in some way. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, HIPAA compliance, of course, is very important. And if you're not HIPAA compliant, that can open you up to a lot of different legal problems. Dr. Mike Jordan: Yeah, when the OCR comes down on you, it can be pretty hard. And there's been several examples of some practices across the country that have gotten tens of thousands, tens of thousands, like 30, 20, 50. One came down with a hundred and I think eighty two thousand dollar most recently fine. And and that's terrible. And obviously you have all the litigation that goes up until that point where you're kind of end up negotiating with the Office of Civil Rights. That's going to cost money. But there's also what they call corrective action plan. So like They'll then require you to submit reports and come up with all different policies and procedures that satisfy the OCR that you are maintaining HIPAA compliance. You've learned your lesson and you're doing everything right. So it's really a drag if you get caught up in something like that. And that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to help physicians utilize the marketing. in the online market where most people are coming to find you and be able to leverage it in a way that you can generate new patients. as an independent practice, it's tough when I don't have like a six figure or larger marketing budget. this is something that I can do relatively cheaply and I don't have to pay for, ads and things like that. This is kind of basically where we focus all of our energy in marketing is making sure that we're obviously providing good care so that people come here want to tell us about it. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, no, it's a very valuable service and one that I think oftentimes gets overlooked because we don't know that we have to be HIPAA compliant with these reviews. Dr. Mike Jordan: Mm-hmm. Right. And it's also the challenge is that, I'm a physician. I don't want to have to be soliciting reviews. I don't want to have to do things like that. the reality is, is that's where people are finding you. it's you get sure. I'm sure people still get referrals from OBs and word of mouth and things like that. we don't have any actual control over that. So what we can control is whether or not our online presence is reflecting who we are so that more people can find us. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, absolutely. Now I'm curious to know what kind of mindset shift did you need to have as you were pursuing this entrepreneurial journey? Was it something different from being a physician or was there a transferable skill that you could? Dr. Mike Jordan: I think that like initially there wasn't much of a mind mindset shift. still am someone who, is entrepreneurial nature and I have been running the business for the last 20 some years. So I have a good sense of what it takes to, know, if you're trying to accomplish something. so having the goal of trying to get these responses, HIPAA compliant was kind of the goal. that was, working on that, and learning about AI and using that. to create the engine. So I kind of had to shift a little bit once I started getting into there. And Carlton is really the, the architect and the engineer, he's been using AI a bunch. So I kind of learned from him. But then the biggest mind shift came for me was, okay, now we have this product and now I have to kind of, let people know about it. I'm not, I'm kind of naturally a little bit more of an introvert. I'm not somebody that, can walk up to anybody and start conversation if I don't know him, it's just a little bit harder for me. So I have to kind of overcome that to say, Hey, how are you doing? Or are to try and be a little bit more of a salesman, it's not really my wheelhouse, so I've tried to learn how to be a little more outgoing and to try and engage with people to see if they have the same problems that we have. And it resonates then, Hey, I've created this solution. And it's. what I had came up with in my head, the way I think about it is that I'm trying to help practices the way it's helped me. I want independent practices to be able to grow and not have to worry about all these entities that are owned either by hospitals or private equity or whatever, and allow them to be able to get their share of new patients as well. And when I think of it that way, that what we're offering is really helpful, it makes it little bit easier. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, it does. And if you don't get the word out, people are not going to know about your service that you have and they're going to lose out on that. Dr. Mike Jordan: Right. Yeah, that's the tough part is that you've built something that I think really is helpful and you can't wait for the fish to jump in the boat. You got to go out and fish. So that's not something that comes naturally to me. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, very good. So you've mentioned that you've worked through this challenge. Have there been other challenges that you faced and how did you overcome that and what you learned from it? Dr. Mike Jordan: Well, think challenges like just in the terms of like how to motivate our staff and motivate providers to understand the importance of this. so what we've done or what I've done is just create like kind of motivational strategies and games that they can play. So. They can make it so I've kind of gamified the issue so that of of and created like this competitive fun and good natured competitions to see if people can get on board and understand and see that when they're participating and they see all the new patients coming in that they're part of the solution, and there can see that they have owner can take ownership of of being part of the biggest the process, where it just because they're not a provider doesn't mean they're not valuable to the practice, right? And they are contributing by participating and being their best self when they come into work. And if you have a front office staff that are happy to be there and that they have a good culture where they work, that is seen when the patients are greeted. The same is with the back office staff. And then obviously the physicians everyone is here to try and help kids and make sure that they're living their healthiest lives and that we're helping them when they're sick. So by kind of getting everyone involved, it helps unify us and gives everyone a common goal to participate in and to try and achieve. And when they take ownership of that and they can see that they're making a difference, I think it gives them more purpose when they're here working and part of Eastlake Pediatrics rather than just punching a clock. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, this is music to my ears because I love games and I love how you brought that into your team. mean, do you get a hundred percent participation? Would you say? Dr. Mike Jordan: Right. Yeah, part of it is like, part of the game is that, we add it so that, in order to score the most points, you have to have your whole team participate. Right. And so we, and it's team-based and, and then at the end of the, at the of the month, we'll have a random drawing and it's based on how many points you have. So even if you're, you had somebody that wasn't here, there wasn't a participant and you, and you kind of scored low that week or that month, you still have a chance to win. So it keeps everyone engaged the whole time. if you can get everyone involved and you can put them in separate teams, and I mix the teams up every month and we do different things like this month's theme is Seinfeld. So I've written programs, these are all things I've created with Claude and AI where you can keep score. And then at the end I get a summary and like today's summary was done, was read by Frank Costanza and his voice. And then one's gonna be learned by Kramer and then. There's obviously Jerry and Kenny Banya and the whole Newman, all of them, Uncle Leo, they all can come up. You never know who's gonna be the one that's narrating the scoreboard. And so people get a chuckle out of that and that's what keeps it fun. Dr. Olga Deengar: That's so exciting. Wow. I have to do more of this. I really, you inspired me here. Dr. Mike Jordan: Good. that's great. I'd love to hear it. Dr. Olga Deengar: Now, speaking of inspiring, has there been a time where you've gone kind of above and beyond or created these extraordinary meaningful experiences for your team, your clients or your loved ones while still efficiently budgeting the 95 % of your budget? Dr. Mike Jordan: Yeah, let me see. think that, I mean, obviously our goal is always to provide, extraordinary experiences for our families when they come in here, and so, but, I'm trying to think in the spirit of this question, usually we try and do things pretty special for birthdays in my family. And so my daughters are And myself, actually, we were all born like 11 days apart in April. So my wife is really, really busy in April, like organizing birthday parties and special special kind of occasions. So I know one time we had done something where we went to take them on a trip and it all just happened that the birthdays were all kind of lining up in spring break. And so we had organized for them to go to Sea World and Discovery Cove. And the big culmination was they get to swim with the dolphins. And that was a really cool thing. And then at the end, they had both girls in the water and the two dolphins came up and brought them a big float that said Discovery Cove on it. that was like 10 or 12 years ago and they still have those floaties in their room. that was a very fond memory that I had and that they have. And just one of the examples that we did as far as, just focusing on making sure everybody had a great time and really enjoy themselves. Dr. Olga Deengar: And I think that's something that they'll remember for the rest of their lives because it's so memorable. I that. Dr. Mike Jordan: yeah, for sure. Yeah, it was really nice. it was, working with the people at Discovery Cove was great. and they kind of, wasn't something they kind of did where they'd have, if I remember correctly, that you couldn't really do both kids. And we had talked to them and like, okay, yeah, we can make it work or whatever. So that was really nice to make that happen for them. Dr. Olga Deengar: There's always an exception to the rule. So I wanted to ask you, someone is starting out in a similar space as you, what advice would you give them? Dr. Mike Jordan: Right, exactly. Mm-hmm. I think that my advice would be to, not be afraid to, experiment and learn how to use, artificial intelligence. That's really, two and a half years ago, maybe three years ago, I was not really too familiar with it, and then subsequently I've spent many, many hours doing that. And I think it's important that if you're going to use AI, that you use the paid models cause they are. going to give you a lot more response and a lot better responses. And then you can also maintain your privacy by making sure the settings are there. So you don't want to try and, know, when, when, when AI is free, it's, it's, you're the product, right? They're using your data to, to, to improve the product. But, know, in our situation, you don't necessarily, when you're working in that situation in AI, you don't want to be uploading sensitive information that can be. access by somebody else at some point. So you want to make sure you use the subscription models and that you set the settings to private so you can feel comfortable doing that. And of course, you can't use any PHI in these models now except for I think co-work may have, no, excuse me, co-pilot will provide you with a BAA so that you could do things like that. what I was doing was not, using any PHI, but I was just learning on how to run facts and figures and reports for the practice and then for response RX. and then to create some of the, programs that we use with response RX, and using that and leveraging that and not being afraid to try things until you figure it out. Cause I mean, I didn't have any real formal information or courses on doing it. I just was trial and error and kind of got an understanding of how things work. And it didn't take me very long, you just can't be afraid to try and jump in with both feet and figure it out. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, I love that advice because sometimes we think, okay, we have to first read everything about this problem, this thing that we're facing, and then we can only start doing some trial and error. Dr. Mike Jordan: Mm-hmm. No, you can't be afraid to fail, and just keep doing it until you, you've figured out what, okay, now this works. And you're just learning from edling along the way, and, it can be frustrating at times because you're, it's not doing what you are wanting it to do, but you have to learn how to talk to it. And it's in every, every like iteration that comes out as much better than it was. Like what I'm using now is so much better than it was six months ago versus a year ago. and it becomes easier and easier. So I really encourage people to try and use it to try and to make their lives easier and to take out mundane tasks, know, automate tasks that don't need to be done manually. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, AI has incredible potential, of course, and keeps growing and growing every day. Dr. Mike Jordan: Right, yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: Now, do you have any book recommendations for our listeners today? Dr. Mike Jordan: Yeah, I know typically you use ask for one, I had three that I thought would be really important. And the first one, was one we discussed back in Alabama is the four disciplines of execution. That is totally reframed how I've worked in pediatrics from the business standpoint. And then I also use that as the framework for response Rx. And basically, it's a book that it enables you, it gives you a process to get things done. Right. And I don't know if you are like this, but I know I would get on something and say, okay, we're going to start trying this and I get it all set up, set it into motion, and then just think it was going to exist after that. And it would just fall apart. Right. And so they give you, the four disciplines that, that ensure that you, stay on task and you keep. doing what you're supposed to do. without you, anytime you don't have any four of those elements involved, right? Which is like, got to, you want to make sure that you are focusing on or acting on the most important goal. Like you want to focus on that goal and then you need to act on the things that are going to be most likely to help you achieve that goal. Then you got to keep a scoreboard so that everyone is involved can stay on target. And then you have this cadence of accountability where you have regular meetings to discuss what's going on. And without any of those four pillars, the whole thing kind of falls apart. But that's been instrumental in me in the way that I've organized our manage the practice and organize and manage things with response RX and that I can't say enough about that book. It's really, really transformational in how I've done things throughout my life. And then the other one is one about customer service, and it's called Unleashing Your Hero by Kevin Brown. it is very, it just gives you an idea about like, you want to make sure that you're providing extraordinary experiences to your customers, and anybody can be ordinary, right? It takes extra to be extraordinary. And it's just a very entertaining read. He's a great storyteller and he just gives great examples of what great customer service is like. So I thought that was important and I incorporate a lot of that into the way our practice runs. And then finally is the AI driven leader and that's by Jeff Woods. And that's the most, I read that most recently, I think back in August and that really helped change the way I think about AI and how I use it to help me in my everyday work. like, If I have questions about, like I have an AI project called experienced pediatric administrator, and I can just bounce ideas off, and say, how would I handle this? Or does this sound right? and I put it through its paces that way. And it just, it just gives you a different way of looking at AI and how you can use it to help you. Dr. Olga Deengar: It's like a brainstorming partner. Dr. Mike Jordan: yeah, absolutely. It's a thought partner is what they call it, right? acts as my thought partner and you're the, you're the world's greatest pediatric administrator. How would I do this? or does this seem like a good idea or what things am I not thinking of? what are, if you have an idea and you think you're doing it well, just take, me an idea of what, what are poke holes in my thoughts and let me know what blind spots I have. And it'll come up with things that you're not thinking of that you're like, maybe I need to, I need to pressure test this better, And it's been, It's been a game changer as far as how I use AI on a regular basis. Dr. Olga Deengar: This is so cool. You've given us a lot of amazing insights. Now, where is one place that our listeners can go and find you and learn more about your work? Dr. Mike Jordan: Yeah, so, our website is response RX. So R-E-S-P-O-N-S-E-R-X, like the prescription.ai. And you can, my email is mike.jordan at responseRX.ai. But that's where our company is for the Google review and survey maintenance. And other than that, you can find me at Eastlakepediatrics.com. That's our website. that's about it. Dr. Olga Deengar: Well, thank you so much, Mike. It's been pleasure having you on our show and I wish you the best of luck with the company. I'm really excited to see how it grows. Dr. Mike Jordan: Yeah. Well, awesome. Yeah, I really appreciate you having me on and allowing me to talk about that and to talk about myself. And it was such a pleasure getting to know you. I'm so happy we went to the conference so that we can connect and and I wish you all the best. I love what you're doing. Dr. Olga Deengar: Thank you.