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Cesar Wurm - The Powers of Addiction · Books4Guys

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Love coming down there.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a it's a good city.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but no, Caesar, man, I have I've been looking forward to this conversation since you and I first connected on LinkedIn a couple weeks ago.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I was sitting here thinking, actually, I was wondering how I came across your profile.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's funny because I'm actually reading the book Um Unreasonable Hospitality right now.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I don't know what technology does or whatnot, but it pulled your profile up.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: And uh because you've you're one of the top names in hospitality and uh one of the most, I guess I saw your your uh award for the top 50 most inspirational people in that industry, which is very awesome.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then I saw your book and I was like, oh yeah, I gotta message Caesar and see if I can get him on the podcast.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, Chris, thank you.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Likewise, super thrilled to be connecting with you and really appreciate the opportunity.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's funny, I'm honored.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I have this book here too.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's Will Ghidara's book.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's right here next to me.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: And man, if if that linked me somehow, I'm honored because that's a pretty cool book.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw him speak as well.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing message, and it can be applicable right in any industry, in anything in life.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, I appreciate that he reached out and yeah, honored to be here and speaking to you.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, and same here.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and Caesar, I think it's it it's awesome that it did link us somehow because your story and your book is much different than that book, you know, in a lot of ways.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And uh you had sent me a voice memo talking a little bit about it, and then I started really digging in.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And man, you've got an incredible story, and I've got your book on the website so people will be able to go find it.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: But the powers of addiction is is the title of your book.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And man, I would love for you, Caesar, just to kind of kind of jump in and just talk a little bit about your life and how you got into hospitality in the first place, and then how, and I don't know what triggered, you know, the struggle you had with addiction, but you're very outspoken and vulnerable about it and talking about your path to overcoming it.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I saw your you've been sober now for over a decade.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Which congratulations, man, that's awesome.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I was watching some of your Instagram videos too about just spreading positivity and being a positive light in the world, which I'm all about, and that's what this podcast is all about, too.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I'd love for you just to share your journey from kind of where it began and and where it's at now.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Chris.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, it's man, what a journey.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's you know, so I'm I'm I'm from Brazil.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was born there and spent my first 18 years there before I moved to Switzerland to study hotel school.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, to your point, how I ended up getting into, you know, hospitality was by kind of by being a bad student, in a way, right?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I couldn't get into any good colleges because my GPA was horrible.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh like I was really, really bad.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: So at the time in Brazil, hospitality was just starting to be, you know, really a college degree.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: So they're pretty much taking anybody that has interest.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: But then concurrently, I started working as a room service assistant overnight at a great hotel in São Paulo, and I really enjoyed, right?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's a lot of you know interaction with people and great energy.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you work a lot of people from different backgrounds and you create a very tight bond with anyone that's listening ever worked in a restaurant or bartending.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: You create some very nice long-lasting relationships, so great energy, and and really that was the beginning of my career.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I just fell into it and enjoyed, and you know, the rest is history.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: But it's interesting going back to also the addiction piece.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, my dad is an alcoholic, and so I grew up in that environment.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: I started drinking very early.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I writing my book, I think the first one, I'm not really sure when I had the first sip of alcohol, but I was man, I was really young, I was like seven or eight years old, you know, try a beer and you know, really quite didn't like the taste, but then start drinking other things.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: So to some degree, I was kind of uh part of my life, and I start drinking on a daily basis early on from like high school.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was drinking pretty much every day, and I was always a party guy, so it was kind of I saw as my way of life and being normal, and that becomes a narrative that you support, that you create.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so to me, for example, blacking out was normal, you know, it's like hey, is like this is what do you mean you don't black out, right?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that carried on for a long time, and and we can talk a little bit more on how it evolved and uh and everything, but to your point, very, very fortunate to have you know 11 years of sobriety really wouldn't be possible without my family, which they've been tremendous and very supportive.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think to your comment as well on about spreading positivity and thanks for doing, write a show about this, you know, engaging, supporting men, and because I think we need to, and part of as to the why I did the writing is really because I felt so lonely during that time and you feel there's something wrong with you or you're ashamed of what you're battling, right?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone is battling addiction or something else, everybody has something going on in their lives, and I thought, wow, you know, if I want my own bias to change, my own perception, is like I have to do something about it, right?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: I have to share my journey so I can be part of the change and not sustain the the the narrative, right?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: The the the perception.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of how that came about.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's it's a journey.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure it's an ongoing one, you know, for sure.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad you you brought that up because I I had someone else on the podcast recently who had who was writing about someone in their life who was struggling with with alcohol.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: And uh as men, as guys, you know, we tend to bottle things up.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: We don't, you know, we have a lot of responsibility.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: You want to you want to take care of everyone else, you think you're fine until you're not, you know, and then you then you learn, you know, it hits you like a train, you know, most of the time with when you're not really expecting it.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I'm glad you talk about that piece of it, and then finally overcoming the, you know, maybe embarrassment of putting that out there and writing about it.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: But but how I guess my question for you, Caesar, because I I see it as the outside of man, like what you did and what you've been doing, how powerful and positive that is for other people that may be struggling with something similar.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And they maybe without them talking about it, they can now read your book and see some of the things you went through and be inspired by you to change their own life.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: But how challenging was it for you to sit down and maybe relive some moments that were tough?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, did you have moments where you were battling with yourself of should I write this and share this with the world?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, should I keep this to myself?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what was the process like for you when you were writing the book?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, wow, that that brings a lot of memories, that question.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it was interesting.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I began writing uh right at the beginning of my sobriety.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I had, you know, I had my kind of awakening, how my awakening came about.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, I was having a lot of um issues physically, mentally, memory, I was having the shakes.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was really getting to a point where you know it wasn't going in well.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was very fortunate that my rock bottom was relatively high.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And as you get to know a lot of people that deal with addiction, you see people that lost everything, right?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: They lost their family, they went to jail, I don't know how many times, and and it's still a lot of takes more than what you think, man.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Wasn't that enough?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I was very fortunate that I haven't had any major consequences to that degree, but I saw it coming.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time, our daughter Gabby's, I don't know, two years old or so.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And thankfully I had a little bit of clarity in in some moments where I said, What am I doing?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm doing to her is worse than what I resent my father for.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanna be able to have a life with her, right?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: I want to provide her with a great foundation, a great opportunity in life, and stay in this path is not gonna get there, right?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna die or definitely lose my family, everything.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, I tried to get sober, you go through many assumptions.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, perhaps I really don't have an issue, and you try to manage, it never worked, and then I had a few relapses.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: But then at the time that I started really my sobriety journey, I started kind of journaling.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I began writing as if I was writing a book, but I never thought I would publish, right?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it was very therapeutical because I was relieving to your point, I was relieving everything.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, hey, how did it start?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: And was there a line that eventually crosses because addiction is like a silent disease, you know, it's creeping a little bit, a little bit until you wake up one day and boom, you have a big problem.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I wrote for about, I'll say four months or so, and then I stopped, right?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I carried on with life, and life went on for several years.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was seven years sober, and I saw a friend of mine that he wrote a couple books here in Atlanta, Chris Tuff, great guy, and I saw that he got sober.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we lost track, you know, because we had relocated a little bit.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I reached out to him and said, Hey Chris, congrats, you know, I've been sober too.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we, you know, started reconnecting.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: So then I sent to him what I had right written.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he was the first person that I shared, right?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because up until other than Laura, my wife, because up to that point I was still so ashamed of my disease, of the things I've done.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I felt safe with him, right?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because I realized he's someone that I I knew, I trust, and he would relate to a lot of what I'd written.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: So he read it and said, Man, said you gotta finish, right?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: You have a book here.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So then to your point, I was you know, seven years sober, I was during COVID, and uh so I finished writing, you know, kind of uh I took it from there.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then I I don't know, I think it was part of you know, I had, you know, did I have fear about sharing this?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, because a lot of this is very personal and and it's not something that you're proud of.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I think as I went through my sobriety journey, I, you know, did the fear, I don't know, I guess a fear of being judged, or it became, you know, smaller than my my purpose, right?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then I said, you know, how I decided to publish, said, you know, listen, if there is anything narrat negative that comes from this, so be it, right?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm doing this for a good cause.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna get rich from from the book.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it costs money to write a book.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I I just really, you know, my wife, she said something years ago that really stuck with me because I found that one person, right, that helped me kind of find my path to sobriety.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, Caesar, you need to be that person for others.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and I said, Yes, you know, you know, what a shame if I don't share my journey, if it can help someone out of fear, out of right, me thinking what people can judge.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And listen, I haven't had any negative uh share directly with me.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there's people think, oh, this guy's crazy or never did what he did.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, a lot of the positivity that I hear from people that says, hey, I read your book, it gave me hope.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, every everything from people that has zero interaction with addiction that understands a little bit now.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: I had a friend that says, Hey, I realize that I'm addicted to sugar, to people out of the blue and says, You helped me navigate a tough time.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, that's yeah.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love I love the chair, I love the path though, and I like what you said there.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it your purpose outpaced your fear at one point.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of fear was up here, purpose here, and then it got here, and that's when you ran with it and knew you had to do what you needed to do to get your story out there.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you kind of talked about something, Caesar, it kind of leads me to another question because you being in the hospitality industry, I mean, you're at some of the nicest hotels in the world.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: They have these awesome bars.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you said you just got back from Vegas, you know, all these places where you can go and and have drinks.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm curious to know how you, I don't know, put up that barrier to say, like, you know, that's this is great, you know, for people, this is cool.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: But like, how do you keep yourself in that sober state of mind and not to give in to something that's so easy to obtain?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: How do you personally keep yourself from that?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that's a great question.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's what is challenging in our industry is because your point is so accessible and a lot of what we do is surrounded or anchored in networking, alcohol, right?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's easy to become part of your day-to-day.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, Chris, the beginning was really hard, really, really hard because, you know, as I said, I was always partying, I was in every networking event, I always drank a lot.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: So people in the industry that you're constantly seeing and engaging with, you know, they expect you to act that way.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Suddenly, you know, I stopped and and you know, I didn't feel comfortable at that time sharing about my struggles.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really hard to kind of create that delineation and and hold firm on, hey, I'm not gonna make an exception, right, out of pressure or out of habit, whatever the case may be.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: So one thing in the beginning that was really, really helpful is that I created a simple way to help me through these times because, you know, I created, okay, you have a choice, right?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you can go and have the drink that you want, or you can choose your family, right?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because if I choose the drink, this is gone.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so that helped me a lot, you know, at the times.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like to really then it made me much easier to stick to my decision and to hold that, right?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's like, okay, you want the drink, great, you can have it, but you're gonna lose what you love the most.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And is it worth it?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that was kind of, you know, my way of coping with it.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then now, thankfully, into this conversation, right?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very open about it, I feel very comfortable.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, I don't preach to others, right?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: I I I've been there, I I know how it feels, don't want to impose my lifestyle, my decision to anyone, uh, but I'm not shy of you know, sharing about me.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people now, a lot of people know that I have written, or to your point, you know, I share about whatever sobrieties.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think nowadays also it's much more, I don't know, if it's accepted or talked about.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it becomes easier, right?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people are choosing not to drink just for, you know, health purpose and just people feel better or they're cutting.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's much less of an issue, at least in my eyes, um, you know, sharing that.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, thankfully right now I don't have any cravings.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: But right, you always gotta be alert because I know a lot of people that had been sober for 20, 30 years and and and lose like that, right?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I never count it for granted.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where I think that, you know, being open about it, you know, finding habits that are positive, that you know, makes you feel balanced mentally, physically helps to be in that space where you're not as tempted, right, to to go back.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd say this is a great time, especially for momentum with your story and message, because there is a lot of people that are choosing not to drink now.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of the non-alcoholic beverages that you can get at bars and restaurants now, and people are yeah, they're talking about wanting to feel better and be their best and be healthier.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a that's a very positive thing.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I and it is kind of funny you mentioned, you know, finishing your book during COVID.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've talked to a lot of authors.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: It seemed like COVID was a good thing to get your book finished.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of time and a lot of books finished during that time, it sounds like um so there was a positive of that time for sure.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: But Caesar, I'm curious to know too.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you you obviously a lot of things have happened organically very good for you.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're talking about like keynote speaking now and doing a lot of things with your platform that you've been able to do just because of sharing your story.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: When you were really starting, you know, when this book was coming out and these opportunities were starting to come, was there any, I guess like from a professional standpoint, was there anybody, and I'm thinking of like you're working in a high-level corporate role, you know, was there any difficulty coming out with your story and worrying about consequences of your career and job?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Or because it seems to have gone in more of a positive way for sure.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: But were there any concerns or or were there any issues with that when you were starting to put this out there?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: That honestly, that was the biggest concern I had because from the personal side, uh, that is, you know, my family is very supportive.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Even like our daughter, Gabby, she's 15 now.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: She read the book.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh when I finished, so I was about, she was kind of 13 or so.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So she knew about my journey because you know, I've done podcasts sharing about my journey, but then she read it.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing that kind of hit me hard, I'll go back and answer your question, but this came, so I want to share for for whatever reason.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: So anywhere she she finished reading the book, and Laura and I were downstairs in the kitchen, and she looked my wife Laura in the eye and said, Mom, how come you didn't leave him?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then Laura kind of paused and looked at her and said, Well, because I know who your dad is deep down, and I knew he was there somewhere.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: So to your point, you you have those times where it really hits you hard, always regrets things that I know say, like, you know, like, you know, but also listen, I can go back and change the past, right?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: I can just focus on being a better person every day and and do the best as I can for those around me and have a positive impact in the world and give back.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the lenses that I looked at because I said, if there is any consequences professionally, uh, I was in a place where I'll be okay with it, right?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I don't want to live a life where I look back and say, wow, I wish I could have done something that I know is positive and I didn't do out of fear for something, right?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Especially where, you know, you made this comment earlier, right?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: We as men, we usually bottle everything.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think a lot of that comes from the fear of being judged or not being strong enough or whatever, you know, historically, you know, I don't know about you, but uh my dad also grew up was like, hey, you just you know shut up and do your job and keep pushing and write.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you you you create that habit of not sharing.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, I really felt that is something that is is for the better.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and those point where if something happens, I'll be okay with whatever consequences come my way.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well it's it's it's very cool though that it never came to that, and it's it's led to some really incredible things uh, you know, that you've been able to do and are still doing.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: You have so much, so much more of an impact that's ahead of you than even behind you.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a very cool thing to know and and see.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm certainly going to be following your story now and seeing what all you do and the impact you have.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be amazing, no doubt.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: But Caesar, just a couple more questions for you.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if when people read your book, if nothing else, what what is one takeaway that you hope someone takes from reading your book?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one thing is again that there is always there's always hope.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: There is always a way out, right?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I wrote this book and I hope it came across where again, it's not preaching.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not, I'm trying just to tell my journey, right?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And my experience with addiction.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I think that really I would like, you know, my hope is that it can relate to anybody because again, we all have things in our lives, right?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: You can lose a loved one, you can lose your job, you can anything that is dark in your life, and I think that's really that it.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Shows because a lot of times, and especially with men, and you know, there's so many men that take their lives, right?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because they get into a place where they don't see the way out.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I I did wasn't clear, I I didn't see my way out there, right?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because it just kind of keeps going deeper and deeper into that dark space.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I just, you know, really hope that people can see is that no matter how hard a situation is, there is always light, right?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's always a path, and it's not easy, but there is always a way.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, love that.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Caesar, one last question for you.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I always ask this to everyone who comes on as a Books for Guys guest, just for books purposes.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like you've got Will's book next to you.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I know you've got some books you've read, but I'm always curious to know what is a book or two that has had a an impact on you, either personally or professionally?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then what's a book that you like to recommend to others when asked?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, wow, that is good.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I have I have a feel here.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Let me yeah, I'll I'll give you two here that I I really like.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Two simple ones, right?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: One is Tuesdays with Morris.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I read many times, and this one is the four agreements.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, they're simple, easy reads, but I love this type of things where you know I think really it speaks to people in and and help us to become better human beings.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think speaks to more of a perspective in life, right?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because we to your point, we all we got to work, we all gotta make money, but also there is so much to life, right?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: So much that we can be better at, that we can help others with.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so this type of books really speak with me about life messaging.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've got the four agreements too.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I've read that a couple of times.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good you're right, it's an easy read, but you can take something different from it every time to apply to your life, which I love books like that too.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Easy things I can apply and obtain.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I love those recommendations.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: But no, Caesar, man, this has been this has been incredible.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you again for for sharing your story and putting your work out there.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's you're doing some incredible and amazing things.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's so cool to see.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, now that we've connected, I'm gonna be following and then cheering for you and seeing all the other amazing and positive impacts you're gonna have out there.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so, man, keep going, keep it up, and thank you for being a part of the Books for Guys mission now, too.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: It means a lot to us as we've got your book on the website now, and uh look forward to a lot of people reading it and sharing their thoughts on it.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so, man, just keep doing the good work and inspiring and motivating others.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, guys like me are following you and and and loving everything you're doing.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciate it.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Chris.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: That means a lot, and thanks for you know the amazing work you do.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Likewise, I'll follow you.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to meet you here when you come down to Atlanta or go to Nashville.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Truly appreciate the opportunity to have this chat and you know, happy to connect with anybody anytime as well.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you again.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Caesar.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: All right, so we're gonna be able to do it.