Latest / Success Story with Scott Clary / Carl Daikeler - Co-Founder & CEO of Beachbody | Ending The Imperfection Economy

Transcript

Carl Daikeler - Co-Founder & CEO of Beachbody | Ending The Imperfection Economy · Success Story with Scott Clary

0:00
I never had the luxury of thinking that income and business wasn't entitlement.
0:05
I've always had to solve problems the first year that we were in business.
0:09
We were doing okay, but we got a contract one month before we ran out of money.
0:13
Today's guest, Karl Dijkler, saw the fitness industry through a different lens.
0:17
Over two decades ago, he co-founded Beachbody.
0:20
He wanted to solve a problem bridging the gap between fitness and nutrition,
0:24
so people could see results that actually last.
0:27
I want to lucky ones that I don't have quit in my vocabulary.
0:30
I do say it's very difficult to be blessed with the surroundings that give you the opportunity
0:36
to build those muscles a lot.
0:37
Karl's vision evolved from unique fitness DVDs to iconic programs,
0:41
like P90X and 21 Day Fix, transforming living rooms into family wellness centers.
0:46
They've taken fitness into the digital era.
0:48
So many people limit themselves based on where they think they've got enough talent to succeed
0:53
when if they've got enough desire to succeed for anybody who might be thinking about quitting.
0:58
It's not that construct that is quit or not, it's the mission or passion,
1:02
and that's what you say committed to.
1:04
But what really sets Beachbody apart,
1:06
Karl calls it participation marketing.
1:07
A groundbreaking approach where customers can share their journey, inspire others,
1:12
and even get rewarded for it, prepared to be inspired by Karl Dijkler's journey,
1:16
one that's redefining fitness for millions around the world.
1:19
The best entrepreneurs, most successful ones, dismiss the concept of work,
1:23
life balance.
1:23
I believe that the mission of helping people achieve their goals,
1:26
how's usual selling lives, more important to me than perhaps finding a miracle kill.
1:34
Welcome to Success Story.
1:36
I'm your host, Scott Clary.
1:37
The Success Story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network.
1:41
HubSpot has been a huge supporter of the show,
1:43
and I'm happy they are because I'm a huge believer in HubSpot.
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3:00
Carl, I'm very excited to do this today.
3:02
It's going to be a lot of fun.
3:03
You've mentioned many times that sort of your formative years,
3:07
your early life experience really shaped who you are as an entrepreneur.
3:11
I think that's a great place to start.
3:13
Just to take people back,
3:14
what were those inflection points or the early life experiences
3:18
pushed you on the path you're on today?
3:19
I would say that the most interesting stuff was
3:23
when I was a kid, my family worked in theater.
3:26
We owned a playhouse outside of Philadelphia called the Bucks County Playhouse.
3:30
A summer stock type of theater, musicals, and things like that.
3:34
I think it was like a 400-seat theater,
3:39
and I got the ability to work really at a young age,
3:45
running and managing the sound design,
3:51
or lighting, or the concession stand,
3:54
or the parking lot,
3:56
and much younger than you would normally expect
4:01
somebody to have that kind of responsibility.
4:04
I had to step up and I had to figure it out on my own
4:09
and sideways to overcome problems.
4:11
I never had the luxury of thinking that income and business was an entitlement.
4:21
I've always had to solve problems,
4:22
and I've always had the reality,
4:25
the coexistence of there going to be problems,
4:29
and there's going to be problems that don't even present themselves
4:32
with solutions,
4:34
and that has only served me particularly
4:38
when, like recently, we've been dealing with
4:41
just a very difficult environment in homelessness
4:44
and nutrition business,
4:46
and that has challenged my stamina in every way.
4:53
But if I hadn't built that up at a young age,
4:56
and I hadn't been through fire,
4:58
I don't know that I would have been able to make it through it,
4:59
but I literally,
5:01
and lucky,
5:02
I'm one of the lucky ones that I don't have
5:04
quit in my vocabulary,
5:06
and I think that's the primary distinction
5:09
of entrepreneurs who don't make it,
5:12
and those that just make sure that they can survive long enough
5:14
to come up with another idea and keep going.
5:17
I love that, and it's so funny,
5:19
because I've interviewed so many people,
5:21
and sort of the one takeaway is,
5:24
in entrepreneurship, when you're building your own thing,
5:26
at every level,
5:27
there's going to be things that happen to you almost daily,
5:29
that the average person who's never tried to build something,
5:33
it would absolutely destroy them,
5:35
it would turn them away from entrepreneurship forever,
5:37
it would make them run in the absolute opposite direction,
5:40
but it's just so interesting that you leaned into that
5:42
from such a young age,
5:44
and it's just really benefit,
5:46
because I think that's one of the personality traits it.
5:49
I don't know, do you feel like that can be hot,
5:51
or is that just something that is just nature versus nurture?
5:55
It's just something that you always had growing up
5:57
because of your parents because of your upbringing?
5:59
That's, I mean,
6:02
certainly your parents,
6:06
and this is what's tough to these days,
6:08
like we are taught to seek comfort and certainty,
6:14
and parents and systems and institutions
6:19
are designed to protect,
6:22
and which is very healthy in many respects,
6:27
but also kids are not being challenged
6:32
the way that might lend them to be better entrepreneurs.
6:37
So while I do think it's something that can be learned,
6:41
I do think it's very difficult to be blessed
6:45
with the surroundings that give you the opportunity
6:48
to build those muscles of learning.
6:50
So that's where I got lucky.
6:51
And then, to any extent that I had
6:56
the disposition to push through and have that grit,
7:02
then I would equate it to Michael Jordan, right?
7:07
Everybody knows the story that the guy got cut
7:10
the first time he went out for the basketball team
7:12
in high school, and at least I believe that's the story.
7:16
And that's outrageous,
7:18
like such amazing talent,
7:21
but then you read the stories of Michael Jordan
7:23
and Kobe Bryant or LeBron James.
7:27
And these guys are the first ones in the gym
7:30
and the last ones to lead.
7:32
And you add that to talent,
7:36
and that's when it's unstoppable.
7:37
And the problem is so many people limit themselves
7:41
based on where they think they've got enough talent
7:43
to succeed, when if they've got enough desire to succeed,
7:47
you can figure out how to solve for the talent problem.
7:51
But the question is, how bad do you want it?
7:53
And are you willing to coexist
7:57
without rageous obstacles and pain?
8:00
And then you can overcome any.
8:02
So obviously the first version of entrepreneurship
8:06
that you had is at a very young age,
8:08
but I'm sure that you've gone through
8:10
sort of these other journeys
8:12
and you tried to build other things throughout your career.
8:14
I'm assuming a lot of them have not been successful.
8:17
Obviously we only know you for the successful ones,
8:20
but even walk me through like that framework, totally agree.
8:24
But every entrepreneur is also going to have a lot
8:26
of things that didn't work out.
8:27
So applying that mindset of persevering,
8:31
being in it for the long haul, knock giving up,
8:34
how do you balance that with, okay, this idea is not working
8:38
and I want to move on to something else.
8:40
Because they're two conflicting ideas
8:42
that are very important to balance
8:44
that will eventually to success
8:45
because if you stuck on that idea that didn't work,
8:47
that you started 20 years ago,
8:49
well, then you wouldn't have had the success you have today.
8:51
So how do you balance those two sort of conflicting ideologies?
8:54
That's a really good question.
8:55
And I think I don't think anybody can appropriately answer that
9:02
within a formulaic way.
9:05
Because it sort of depends on how much is it burning inside you
9:10
to create your category and to sign your category.
9:16
Look, the, I guess a good example is the first,
9:24
the first fitness video I ever did was called Eight Minute Apps.
9:27
That was for a different company
9:28
that I ran with an entrepreneur named Lance Funston
9:32
called that company was Teleamerica.
9:34
And so this was just an idea I needed it for myself.
9:37
I thought it would be help me stay consistent
9:41
could eight minutes a day, how hard could that be?
9:43
And I remember with the success of Eight Minute Apps
9:47
on selling through TV, I said to Lance,
9:52
look, there's something here that's really compelling,
9:55
I think providing information on how to work out at home
10:00
through at that time it was VHS
10:02
turned into the DVD and now it's digital.
10:04
But, you know, in an environment where people say
10:07
they got to go to the gym or they got to spend money
10:10
on a trainer or just jog their way to fitness.
10:14
This is a very compelling way and cost of fish,
10:18
a cost of fishing way for people to get results.
10:21
So let's do more of these.
10:22
I got a bunch of other ideas and he said,
10:26
no, I want to pursue this other angle
10:28
that the business had also a media angle.
10:32
And so now that was a company that he and I started together
10:37
to be a marketing and media company.
10:40
But I saw this other opportunity that I was very clear on.
10:45
So that's what I chose.
10:47
So chose that opportunity and pursued it,
10:51
but I didn't, but I had to do another job in the meantime,
10:56
because I was already to pursue that.
10:57
I had to start a whole other company.
10:58
So before I started that company,
11:00
I did, I had a little business with the
11:03
Infomercial Company,
11:04
Gaffee Ranker, where we created this sort of,
11:08
for an online matchmaking dating service
11:11
that we did through radio and then match.com came along
11:15
and so that business didn't work,
11:16
but we did okay for two years.
11:17
But over the course of those two years,
11:19
I formulated other ideas and then I was writing
11:21
to raise money and pursue this other concept.
11:25
But even then, I remember the first year
11:29
that we were in business, we were doing okay,
11:31
but we weren't well-financed.
11:33
So like we were selling a product called
11:35
Syntized Guaranteed and Great Buns Guaranteed
11:37
and Great Ab's Guaranteed,
11:39
but it wasn't enough to pay everybody's salary.
11:41
I wasn't pulling a salary,
11:44
but we got a contract, a consulting contract,
11:48
one month before we ran out of money
11:51
to help a company that was marketing Lasik services.
11:54
So at the same time that we started to develop
11:57
our first big Infomercial Program,
11:59
I had this consulting contract to build this Lasik business,
12:04
which kept us in business.
12:06
And so all of it is creativity.
12:09
And if I ran out of capital,
12:13
it would have been done and then I would have started over
12:15
and another way.
12:17
So it all is iterations and it's never going
12:21
to be a straight line, do I quit or do I not?
12:24
Here's another good example, Scott.
12:26
So when programs like P90X and Insan,
12:33
the power 90 and all these things that people know,
12:36
were so incredibly successful at people getting results.
12:40
And then wanting to, you know,
12:42
somebody would see them like,
12:43
how'd you lose just the pounds?
12:45
And I was like, I'm doing this thing, P90X.
12:48
And I had people saying in our message boards,
12:50
if I could have a nickel or a dollar for every time
12:53
somebody bought P90X because they saw my results,
12:55
I'd be rich.
12:56
And I thought, wait, that's really interesting
12:58
because that's really a true thing.
13:00
Somebody loses a lot of weight.
13:03
Everybody around them, it's got credibility.
13:06
It's like, I hope I'm marketing, that's my buddy.
13:08
And so I want to do that.
13:10
So we said, how can we be a catalyst
13:14
to that kind of initiative?
13:16
So we went into the network marketing business
13:18
or what's known as multi-level marketing.
13:20
And so that was the way for people who were customers
13:24
to monetize their health and fitness.
13:26
That worked for us incredibly well for 17 years.
13:29
Well, let's say incredibly well for 14 years.
13:32
And then we started to see it decay.
13:35
And the model got antiquated and unpredictable,
13:39
which is not a good formula for a public company.
13:44
But the premise stands that a human being
13:48
getting results with a health,
13:49
with a fitness and nutrition program
13:51
is better marketing than any company can do on its own.
13:55
So we just shifted it.
13:56
So some would say, we quit on multi-level marketing.
14:00
And our art, yeah, but I see it.
14:02
But you still take all the learnings
14:04
and you keep rolling them into the next thing,
14:06
again and again and again.
14:07
And it's changing slightly.
14:09
And there's nuances to how this thing
14:11
is a little bit different than the last thing.
14:13
But I see what you're saying.
14:15
You could look outside, you know,
14:17
outside looking in, you say you quit.
14:19
But ultimately, it's just different iterations.
14:21
It's evolution more than quit.
14:24
Exactly.
14:25
And so for anybody who might be thinking about quitting,
14:31
here's the process I go through.
14:33
I go through all this weekly, certainly, sometimes daily.
14:38
What is my mission?
14:39
Yeah, I want to make money.
14:41
But at some point I'm going to make a lot of money
14:43
and the question is, am I still on this mission?
14:46
Our mission is to help people achieve their goals
14:49
and lead healthy, fulfilling lives.
14:51
What's the most compelling way
14:53
to help those people achieve their goals
14:55
and lead healthy, healthy, fulfilling lives?
14:57
By seeing other people that they know,
15:00
get those results.
15:02
So when, so against that test,
15:04
I go 170 million people,
15:06
overweight or obese in the US alone.
15:09
That tam, the whole fitness industry
15:13
has barely dipped a teaspoon into that ocean of tam.
15:17
So I fully believe that we're just getting started.
15:21
We just need the business model to be right.
15:23
And that's what you'll quit on.
15:25
It's not the construct that is quit or not.
15:28
It's the mission or the goal or the passion.
15:32
And that's what you stay committed to.
15:34
I love that.
15:35
You know, it's so crazy to me.
15:36
And I'm sure people that are listening
15:37
to this are going to echo this too.
15:39
Because you're still telling me
15:41
after all the success that you've had,
15:43
and this is how I know that you're actually mission driven,
15:45
after all the success that you've had,
15:47
and after all the programs that you've rolled out
15:49
that are quite literally household names,
15:50
like people know the names of all the programs
15:52
you were rolled out.
15:53
And we can talk about, you know,
15:55
new ones, some why they were more successful than others,
15:58
but even now you're still like,
16:01
I'm still learning, I'm still iterating,
16:02
I'm still targeting this tam
16:04
because we've only barely touched it.
16:06
By any other measures of success as an entrepreneur,
16:09
like you could probably never work again.
16:13
But it just goes to show you,
16:14
I mean, if you want to, I mean, that's the whole other story.
16:17
But by most people's definition,
16:19
you've already achieved massive success
16:21
in what you've done.
16:22
When you have household name products, that's incredible.
16:25
But it is, it's being mission driven,
16:27
that I would bet, without really knowing you that well,
16:31
it's out of just the past 10 minutes of us chatting,
16:33
like you still feel like there's so much incredible,
16:36
an incredible amount more to do with the people that you serve.
16:39
And that's why you're still rolling out new things,
16:41
iterating, proving evolve.
16:43
No longer you go, I think, the hotter your ambition burns.
16:51
And I think, you know, everything's a razor's edge.
16:54
You gotta balance that to not make it miserable on yourself.
16:57
But like I used to have a,
16:58
well, when I would pull into my parking spot with the office,
17:01
instead of having my name on my parking spot,
17:04
I had my metrics.
17:06
So I wanted 10 million subscribers
17:10
of our digital platform, two million subscribers
17:13
of our nutrition platform.
17:14
And I wanted one million what we would call partners.
17:18
And that was people in the network, okay?
17:20
You know, right now I'm in about maybe 10% or less
17:26
of all those numbers.
17:28
So this is eight years ago, that was my objective.
17:32
And I'm not there, and I fully expect to achieve that still.
17:39
60 years old, been doing this for 26 years.
17:42
And they were like, wow, what a career.
17:43
I'm like, I literally can tell you, Scott,
17:48
I feel like I've been doing this for six months.
17:50
Like I feel like I just got started.
17:52
It does not feel like people,
17:54
I was with a bunch of people who've been working
17:57
with us for two decades.
17:59
And they were reminding me of things that happened.
18:01
And I'm like, wow, it seems like we've been doing this so long.
18:05
And I feel like we just got started this year.
18:07
So, you know, maybe that's the way I'm wired,
18:09
or maybe that's just what happens
18:11
when you really are this committed.
18:14
You know, there's this argument about with entrepreneurs.
18:17
And I don't know, the best entrepreneurs that I know,
18:21
the most successful ones,
18:23
dismiss the concept of work life balance
18:26
because their work is so important
18:29
and gives them so much joy.
18:31
And that is the thing that they are determined to achieve.
18:36
And so work life balance,
18:37
why you want to meet your obligations to family
18:40
and friends and so on.
18:42
Work life balance as a goal is far less important
18:47
than achieving the mission that I set out for.
18:50
And I'm lucky to be wired that way.
18:53
I just want to take a second
18:54
and thank the HubSpot Podcast Network
18:56
for supporting success story.
18:57
Now, if you enjoy success story,
18:58
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19:23
I think it's beautiful.
19:24
I think that just means that you're aligned with your purpose.
19:26
I truly believe that's what it means.
19:29
Like when you, after 20 plus some years at 60 years old,
19:34
and you're like, I just feel like this fresh energy,
19:37
and I feel like I've just started this new thing.
19:39
My God, that is like absolute alignment
19:41
with what you should be doing in your life.
19:42
I don't think many people have the privilege
19:44
of feeling that feeling, but I wish more would.
19:46
And maybe they can get some inspiration as to,
19:48
this is how it should feel
19:49
when you're actually doing the thing
19:51
that you're meant to be, you know, you're meant to do.
19:54
I, just to back up a little bit,
19:56
I think it's very interesting just to understand
19:58
because you spent, again, 20 plus years
19:59
in health, the wellness and nutrition of fitness,
20:02
out of anything that you could have taken on
20:05
or anything that you could have started,
20:06
what was the, what was your reason?
20:08
Like what was your inflection point
20:09
that pushed you into health and wellness and fitness?
20:11
Because there's obviously something there
20:13
that you wanted to solve for in your own life
20:14
with the eight minute abs
20:15
and sort of like your first product that you worked on.
20:18
Yeah.
20:19
I think this is where any entrepreneur
20:23
will get a little edge when they're solving a problem
20:27
that is, that they have.
20:31
And that's the, that's the way I thought about it
20:32
when we were creating power 90 originally back in 2000.
20:38
I can remember others in the infomercial industry
20:41
were like, wait a minute,
20:42
you're gonna show people doing squats
20:44
and push ups and curls and working hard and sweating.
20:49
That's all we do with infomercials.
20:50
You need to show how easy it is
20:52
and everybody's smiling and that there's no sweat.
20:55
And I thought, well, that's exactly why
20:56
I'm not buying these products
20:58
because I know that's not gonna work.
21:00
So what I want is show me the one that's gonna work.
21:04
So I thought, if that's the way I'm wired,
21:07
there's gotta be a million of me in a country this large.
21:11
And if there's a million of me
21:12
and I'm gonna sell this thing for around a hundred bucks,
21:15
well, that's a hundred million dollar business.
21:17
And so let me start there.
21:20
And that's really been the premise for 26 years.
21:23
Like I'd not obviously, not all the products
21:25
that we've created are designed for me.
21:27
But there's a component of me understanding
21:31
and this is really a competitive advantage that we've got.
21:35
We've been doing this so long
21:36
that we really understand the obstacles
21:39
and problems that people have,
21:41
which means we're not just selling,
21:43
we're not selling a product anymore.
21:45
We are solving problems.
21:47
So, you know, I'm surrounded by our posts.
21:51
Shakeology is a good example.
21:53
I really don't like vegetables.
21:54
Now I've, as I've matured,
21:57
I've found a way to sort of hide them in food stuff.
21:59
But I don't like them.
22:01
So I said to the team,
22:04
is there, like if I can do a shot at tequila,
22:07
certainly you can give me something that's a shot of the healthy
22:11
that is gonna be disgusting
22:12
and I'll be able to drag it back.
22:14
And that's when I learned about the potency of super foods
22:18
and greens blends and certain fibers that are more effective
22:22
and clean protein versus protein than you're not sure about.
22:25
And like, hey, you put that all together
22:27
and you can actually make it taste good.
22:29
And I was like, well, I would,
22:31
I'd be 10 bucks for that every day.
22:33
Like if I'm gonna go to a fast food place
22:36
and pay five, six, seven bucks,
22:38
certainly I'd pay 10 bucks for something
22:40
that was a serving of that much healthy stuff.
22:42
Well, we did it for less than half that price,
22:45
which at the time compared to protein shakes,
22:49
looked really expensive.
22:50
But we need to think about what it's doing.
22:52
Like it's a trip to the friggin salad bar
22:54
for a guy who hates the salad bar
22:56
and I'm not getting the gel with marshmallows in it.
23:00
I need to get the vegetables.
23:02
So now I get in the chocolate shake each day.
23:04
That was solving my problem.
23:07
And I remember, again, as we were marketing it,
23:09
this is the importance of knowing
23:12
that this is gonna be good for me.
23:13
If we have one customer, then it's gonna be worth it.
23:17
Because everyone around me is like,
23:18
no way can you sell a product like this
23:20
for four or five bucks a serving.
23:22
Like I'll compare it to protein shakes.
23:25
And I said, I need this.
23:28
I like, I am not regular.
23:32
I am not feeling energetic.
23:34
I'm relying on caffeine too much for my energy.
23:37
So I need this.
23:39
And if we can make it taste even decent,
23:41
I'm gonna drink this every day.
23:43
And sure enough, that thing took off 15 years ago.
23:47
We sold over a billion servings of shake biology.
23:50
Some people still don't get it.
23:51
They're like, oh, that overpriced shake that you've got.
23:53
They don't know the amount of testing that goes in this.
23:56
And the amount of testing that goes in this
23:58
to make sure it's got the potency that we expect, right?
24:01
Because you've got, you got ingredients coming in
24:03
and you got to make sure that it's not being cut,
24:05
that it's not being diluted.
24:06
So the supplier gets more margins.
24:08
We got to test it to make sure it's as potent as it says,
24:12
both on receipt and when we deliver the product
24:15
and I know and I make sure that that product lives up
24:22
to what I expect because I have had this shake
24:25
every day for over 15 years.
24:28
Like, that's how much I live it.
24:29
So I won't.
24:30
That's a good endorsement.
24:32
I'm gonna let the tent wear it in a quarter.
24:33
And I've had finance people sharpen their edges
24:36
and think, oh, I'm gonna go in there
24:37
and we are gonna turn this thing into a project making machine.
24:40
I would love that.
24:42
But not at the expense of the one thing I consume every day
24:45
that I know is super good for me on the inside.
24:48
So, and that's the way you create distinction in your life.
24:52
And you got to find ways to be competitive
24:53
and pricing and all that stuff, but ultimately,
24:57
and I'm not trying to promote my stuff necessarily.
25:01
No, I get it though, I get what you're saying.
25:02
Yeah, I understand what you're saying.
25:04
You build it for yourself.
25:05
That's the thing.
25:05
You build it for yourself.
25:06
Whether somebody's making music,
25:08
I saw a producer, Rick Rubin.
25:13
He was asked on this podcast,
25:15
do you think about what the audience wants
25:17
when you're making me music?
25:19
And he's like, not at all.
25:21
I'm creating music that if I love it,
25:25
I know the audience.
25:26
Somebody in the audience is gonna love it.
25:28
I just need to make sure that I love it.
25:30
And we just wrapped on the production of a program
25:34
called Bell's a Tao,
25:35
which is a women's hormone health program
25:38
and we were producing these workouts
25:40
that are like a Pilates machine
25:42
for like hundreds of the expense.
25:45
And this production is so gorgeous.
25:49
Like I'm watching the art form
25:51
of this production come together.
25:53
And I'm like, I don't know if this is gonna sell
25:56
10 million copies, a million copies, or 10,000 copies,
26:00
but it is a trigon work of art.
26:03
And that's how I know it's gonna be successful.
26:06
But I'm sure that like kind of like Rick Rubin,
26:10
who's just done this for so long
26:12
that he just understands when something's going to be a hit.
26:16
I'm sure that after you've done like,
26:17
okay, so the program's that you've done over your career.
26:21
So you've done P90X, Insanity,
26:23
you've done Beachbody now, Body.
26:26
But I'm sure there's other ones that I'm not aware of.
26:28
These are the ones that I knew about
26:30
because I did some of these too,
26:31
when I was trying to lose weight.
26:33
So I know these programs.
26:34
It's been 34 of them.
26:36
All of them.
26:37
We've got 100% of our different programs
26:40
from Brazil, but lift, hip hop abs, slim and six,
26:46
turbo jam, 21 day six, 80 day obsession.
26:50
You know, all of the Insanity's Insanity Max 30, T25.
26:54
I could you know, morning meltdown 100,
26:57
like wildly different themes,
27:01
but all designed around an objective
27:04
for helping like, we did one this summer.
27:06
Here's a really interesting example.
27:09
You would sing that after 26 years,
27:12
we've covered all the ground.
27:13
Well, we did want, if you've ever heard
27:14
of primal movement training, okay,
27:19
which is sort of like we went around like an animal,
27:23
like an ape and you're on the ground
27:25
and you're learning this stuff.
27:25
And it really, it's all your joints.
27:28
And we had this trainer at least shown.
27:31
And I said, she's a yoga instructor.
27:33
And I said, I want to combine it.
27:35
I can't stay in yoga, but I need it.
27:37
And I said, can you give me something that's like power yoga,
27:40
but don't make me stay in still so long.
27:43
So, and I'm going to be traveling a lot this summer.
27:47
So I need a program that has no equipment.
27:51
And I want it to be done in 20 minutes
27:54
so that I know I'm going to get the job done.
27:56
She created a six week program
27:57
called the Body Lava, B-O-D-I Lava.
28:01
20 minutes a day, power yoga and primal moves,
28:04
and it's outrageously good.
28:06
It's like a fountain of youths.
28:07
It took us 26 years to come up with that idea.
28:10
But the reason that we came up with that idea
28:13
is because we had 130, three programs that weren't that.
28:18
And they were like, well, wait,
28:19
there's still a little gap in the catalog.
28:21
And that's the fun part of the job.
28:23
That's why the job's not done.
28:24
And there's still, you know,
28:26
the list of things we have in development is a mildly,
28:30
I mean, when you look for gaps in health and wellness,
28:34
how do you know if something's going to be a hit?
28:36
Because again, you've done like hundreds of programs
28:38
at this point, you have, again, like Rick Rubin,
28:41
I feel like you have this intuitive sense
28:43
when something's missing.
28:44
So maybe just comment on how people like to work out,
28:47
what type of things work for them,
28:49
because that's something that goes into the formula.
28:51
Most obvious answer, or I think distinct answer for us
28:54
is we test it.
28:56
So, and that's very different that like first off,
29:00
you've got a distinct timeline.
29:03
So by lava is six weeks, bell to towel coming out this December,
29:07
that's 12 weeks before it even goes in production.
29:12
We test it on a test group of between 25 to 100 people
29:17
and make sure that they're following what we would expect
29:22
to be the appropriate program, including the fitness
29:24
and the nutrition and if there's appropriate supplements
29:27
for that program.
29:28
And we have had examples where we tested a concept
29:33
that was really unique on paper,
29:34
but didn't get the results and we kill it.
29:37
So something doesn't go into production
29:39
unless we know it's going to get results.
29:41
And if there's anything that I'm proud of
29:43
about the body company, it's, we are the results company
29:47
that I'm not a company that's just about checking the box.
29:52
Like I checked the box, I did my workout.
29:55
I want people to know that if they show up for 21 days,
29:59
30 days, 60 days, 98, whatever the lights of that program is,
30:04
the results or the outcome and the ceiling that they expected
30:08
is what will be achieved because we tested it first.
30:12
And that's how we know.
30:14
Again, like 26 years, amazing.
30:16
How is your personal philosophy on health
30:19
and wellness sort of evolved over those 26?
30:21
That's a really good question because it really has changed a lot.
30:27
I used to be, you know, I told the story
30:29
that I don't like vegetables.
30:30
And I also was not, I'm not an exercise now.
30:35
I would say as recently as this year, as I turned 60,
30:39
I had to check myself because that,
30:41
if the even that mentality, even though it's sort of clever
30:44
for the shitness company to say, I don't like working out,
30:47
but I do it because our programs are great.
30:50
But I also know that's not serving me.
30:52
So I no longer have the option of saying, I don't work out.
30:58
I have to.
30:59
If I want to, like, I visited my parents
31:02
at their respective facilities, right?
31:06
Where they're, you know, what do you call them?
31:09
Like a care or old age or yeah, it's a care.
31:12
So, and you know, everybody's got the Walker with the tennis balls
31:16
or a cane or they're driving around
31:21
on one of these little scooters.
31:22
And some of them are in their early 70s.
31:26
So I'm 60 and I made the decision.
31:31
I can no longer allow myself to have this intellectual
31:37
acceptance that I'm not a shitness person
31:40
because I don't want to be that.
31:42
I don't want to ever drive a scooter for Disney World
31:46
with my grandchildren.
31:48
I don't want to have a cane unless, you know,
31:50
the something goes on, then it's fine.
31:52
But if I can avoid the cane or the Walker or the scooter,
31:56
I'm going to do it, which means so the question,
31:59
how have I evolved?
32:00
I've realized that where it used to be aesthetics and vanity
32:05
and strengths, now it's about the imperative
32:09
that I maintain my mobility and agility as I age.
32:12
And now I've got of you on from 60 to 90.
32:16
I'm saying mobile and active and consistent
32:18
for as long as possible until they pried
32:21
the freaking dumbbells out of my hands.
32:23
So now I'm a fitness person.
32:24
I love it.
32:25
And you know, it's actually interesting
32:26
because this actually mirrors and I'll let you tell this story
32:30
but this kind of mirrors if I'm not incorrect,
32:32
you're move away from beach body into body.
32:35
And I want to understand, I mean,
32:37
you've created a lot of programs.
32:40
It sounds like as you've changed your own perspective
32:42
on what health and wellness, maybe even like
32:45
not caring so much about aesthetic
32:46
and more caring about longevity,
32:49
talk to me about sort of that mental shift,
32:51
how it impacted your programs,
32:52
maybe just some like at least we can start,
32:55
like high level problems that we see
32:57
in the health and wellness community
32:59
that ultimately maybe don't serve people
33:04
the way that they should, these programs,
33:05
these ideas, these fitness gurus, these diets,
33:09
these all these things that,
33:10
I mean, I also come from a sports background
33:12
and health and wellness.
33:13
I think there's a lot of toxicity in health and wellness.
33:16
So yeah, that's a big question.
33:19
I'll try not to go on too big of a speak.
33:22
I had to big one, I'm sorry, but it's interesting.
33:24
I know you have opinions.
33:25
So I loved the name beach body.
33:27
It was super fun, gratifying,
33:29
but it was also very limiting
33:33
because there were partnerships and applications
33:37
that were, that we were not just,
33:39
we were not welcome to participate in.
33:41
So since renaming the business to just B-O-D-I,
33:46
which originally stood for beach body on demand interactive,
33:49
but now to be this clever spelling of body, B-O-D-I,
33:54
and to drop the sort of gratuitous beach body name,
34:01
now we did a partnership with the American Diabetes Association
34:04
because we're not surely associated with
34:07
how do I seek look or feel in a swimsuit,
34:10
but how is my body?
34:13
How is that working?
34:14
And frankly, right now with the advent of weight loss
34:19
pharmaceuticals, you got all these people doing GLP ones,
34:22
and if they don't take control of their lifestyle choices,
34:28
including getting enough protein,
34:30
listing and exercising,
34:32
and they just do the GLP one to lose weight,
34:35
they're gonna be in real trouble, like real muscular skeletal
34:40
muscular, I don't know how they go,
34:42
they're gonna have structural problems,
34:44
and their metabolism will crater,
34:47
and it's gonna bow rang on it,
34:48
and they're gonna have health to pay.
34:50
So I wanted body to better represent really what we're about,
34:55
and that is the outrageous health and lifestyle
35:00
and feeling benefits from doing one single workout.
35:04
So while we have these programs that are 21 days
35:07
to 100 workouts,
35:10
we created this category called health esteem,
35:13
which is really about acknowledging the fact that
35:16
when you show up for a workout, just one,
35:20
you've got something to show for it,
35:22
and this was a big learning,
35:24
this is a really a huge impression for me,
35:29
was that I didn't have to go into the gym
35:34
and be on the edge of puking in order to feel like
35:38
I had a good workout,
35:39
because my entire life and your an athlete,
35:42
that ceiling of I gave it all in the gym,
35:45
and I just absolutely destroyed myself,
35:49
which can get you great results,
35:51
but it can also make it really intimidating
35:53
to get back to the gym if you don't have that alpha energy.
35:57
So we stepped back and said,
35:59
wait a minute, 170 million people, overweight or obese,
36:03
maybe they're not looking to blow their brains out in the gym,
36:06
maybe they're looking to just feel good by showing up.
36:09
So we created the category of health esteem,
36:11
which is a play on self esteem,
36:13
that your self esteem is improving
36:15
when you're paying attention to your health,
36:18
and just showing up for yourself
36:21
is as much a win as the before and after photo.
36:25
It doesn't need to just be about the before and after photo.
36:28
The scale, the before and after photo are great metrics,
36:32
and certainly something to be proud of,
36:34
but as a guy who got, I got outrageous results
36:38
when I did PIDX, whatever, 15 years ago.
36:42
But there's no way I was gonna keep those,
36:46
there's no way I was gonna keep those kind of results
36:50
for into my 60s.
36:52
So now I'm proud of myself that I show up,
36:55
and I'm consistent about it.
36:57
That is my before and after,
36:58
and that's what this shift to body really represents
37:03
is mature, I love it.
37:05
And what I was sort of alluding to it,
37:06
and it's something that I've heard you speak about
37:08
was like the imperfection economy.
37:10
And that's really what I,
37:13
and I just wanna hear your take on that
37:15
because that's what I was actually alluding to.
37:17
I didn't realize that beach body was getting sort of blocked
37:22
from all these great wellness initiatives.
37:24
Like you mentioned, like the American Diabetes Association
37:27
and whatnot, but that's sort of like a very specific example
37:32
of a very specific example of the imperfection economy.
37:37
I don't even think,
37:38
I'm gonna say that I don't think beach body at all
37:41
is as even remotely as bad as some of the stuff
37:44
that I see online in the imperfection economy
37:47
or quote unquote health and wellness economy.
37:50
I think that, I mean social media and fitness influencers
37:55
and everybody is almost like a zealot
38:01
about their specific workout regime or diet
38:04
to the point where they almost shame
38:06
or look down on other people that are also trying
38:08
to improve in a slightly different way.
38:10
I think there's a lot of issue with,
38:12
like you coined the phrase imperfection economy.
38:15
I just called it toxic fitness, the guru is online.
38:19
But talk to me about this whole economy,
38:21
this sort of bubble that you're fighting against with body,
38:24
but it's obviously something that a lot of people
38:26
are getting exposed to when they try and lose weight.
38:29
Yeah, we were participants with infomercials.
38:34
And at first I'm very proud of the results
38:38
that people were getting.
38:39
But then when it turned into,
38:43
and I started to wash this within our own customer community,
38:47
where people would be so hard on themselves
38:52
if they had a cookie or they didn't finish a program
38:58
like what I never wanted was the nature of the business
39:02
to contribute to someone's self-loathing
39:06
or their own self-esteem.
39:09
And I think that so coined the phrase imperfection economy,
39:14
which we were guilty of participating in,
39:16
and that is, you know, hey, you're not good enough yet.
39:20
And I don't know that we ever said that literally,
39:22
but the implication that you need to do this program
39:27
and then keep going and go to the next level,
39:29
and the next level.
39:32
And look, our mission statement is where I don't jail
39:36
too guilty because it's always been help people achieve
39:39
their goal to lead a healthy, fulfilling life,
39:42
not help people lead our standard
39:45
for a healthy, fulfilling life,
39:47
which is also why we had to abandon the name Beachbody
39:52
because what was just a clever little fun name
39:57
turned into a connotation of some sort of perfect image
40:02
or ideal body.
40:04
And we didn't want to participate in that anymore.
40:06
And it's interesting.
40:07
And so we've got incredible customers
40:08
who've had outrageous results that are such inspiration.
40:12
But I've had some of them say, you know,
40:13
I've seen them on social media saying, you know,
40:16
yeah, I'm still calling it Beachbody
40:17
because that's what it is to me.
40:19
And it's fine, but they're not really accepting
40:22
the fact that the company,
40:24
like this is not Twitter going to X.
40:28
This is a company evolving its message
40:31
so that it can be more helpful in helping people achieve
40:34
their goals and lead healthy people's own lives.
40:36
And quite frankly, if I think about my kids,
40:39
who would look over my shoulder
40:41
at the info commercials that I'm editing,
40:45
I would get self-conscious
40:47
if all of a sudden they're seeing me perpetuate an ideal
40:51
that now I'm teaching them that they have to live up to.
40:55
And I was no longer comfortable with that prospect.
40:59
So that's why we started to make these changes
41:01
and they were not that radical.
41:03
I mean, we still want people to have a healthy
41:06
lean body mass, we want them to have muscle.
41:09
But, you know, I don't want them to starve themselves.
41:12
I don't want them to, you know,
41:15
I've watched people with intermittent fasting
41:17
which can be great, but I have watched friends
41:21
intermittent fast themselves into an eating disorder
41:24
because they go, wow, when I skip breakfast,
41:27
I really started losing weight.
41:29
I'm going to skip lunch now
41:30
and I'm going to eat even less for dinner
41:32
at all the sudden they're eating crumbs
41:34
and they're miserable.
41:37
And so anyway, that's the nature of that transition
41:41
and I think we're still navigating it
41:44
because results are such good marketing
41:46
because that's what people aspire to.
41:48
So you still need the results to market
41:51
but the message within the product needs to be about
41:56
like, okay, we have a promotion going right now called
42:00
work out to win $10,000.
42:03
That's not about a transformation contest.
42:06
It's just every time you work out
42:09
in October, November and December
42:11
is another entry into that month's $10,000 giveaway.
42:16
So it's just, it's really a participation.
42:19
So you show up, you do the work out
42:22
and maybe I won 10 grand a day, I don't know.
42:26
So that's what we're trying to reinforce.
42:29
Show up, do the best you can.
42:31
And by the way, when you show up that way in the morning,
42:33
maybe have your shake, the decisions
42:37
through the rest of the day tend to support that effort
42:41
that you just put into it versus
42:43
when you blow the work out off
42:44
and you're not feeling good, you're still in the season.
42:46
So I might as well have the extra piece of pizza
42:48
and I might as well blow off trying to get
42:50
a vegetable and lunch and so on.
42:52
Yeah.
42:53
I want to take a second and thank Range Rover Sports
42:54
for supporting today's episode.
42:55
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42:59
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43:02
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44:27
I think that what you're doing
44:28
and the way that you're shifting to body is super healthy.
44:30
But just tell me, because I haven't really,
44:34
I go out to the gym and I sort of work
44:36
and do my own thing.
44:37
But I'm not really a participant.
44:40
And it's not like I'm getting into this
44:42
for the first time and I'm curious what you see
44:46
with other companies in the fitness industry.
44:49
What is the imperfection economy?
44:52
What are the standards of marketing?
44:55
Is it still the before, after in 2024?
44:57
Is it still the unrealistic expectations?
44:59
Like somebody who has never really been to the gym
45:01
and wants to work out and they want to start a program
45:04
currently outside of body,
45:05
what did they see when they started to research?
45:07
You certainly have some of that.
45:10
I think that fitness is still decentralized.
45:15
I think since the infomercial,
45:17
the end of the infomercial has disabled
45:22
much of that idealism.
45:26
But I do think that quite honestly,
45:31
the way GLP1 drugs have been marketed
45:36
are bringing us back there that it's,
45:39
I got to get sin at all costs.
45:41
Like anybody who would prescribe this
45:44
to somebody who's got to lose 10 pounds,
45:47
and again, it depends on where somebody is
45:48
that might be prediabetic, whatever.
45:50
So I don't want to speak outside my lane.
45:52
But people going into these drugs
45:56
as an alternative to lifestyle change,
45:59
I think is irresponsible.
46:01
That is the imperfection economy.
46:04
Just take this injection and everything's going to be okay
46:07
and it's going to be better, what it's not.
46:11
And that is the imperfection economy.
46:14
The imperfection economy is the plastic surgeon
46:19
who lets somebody come in their office
46:22
over and over again, get one nose job,
46:26
ask another, get one chin implant, cheek implants,
46:29
all these injections and people are constantly now
46:34
staring at their imperfections and they will never be good enough.
46:41
And that's the sickness, Scott.
46:43
That's when it's about trying to feed my ego
46:48
so that I finally feel good enough.
46:50
That's the sickness that needs to be healed
46:52
before you try to lose the 20 pounds
46:54
and get the nose job.
46:55
What you want to do is find a way to love yourself enough
46:58
to take care of yourself,
47:00
then you're going to have a healthy relationship
47:02
with whatever you're doing.
47:03
And that's what we're trying to perpetuate, I guess,
47:05
for himself.
47:06
I love that.
47:07
It's amazing.
47:08
And I mean, just sort of like shifting over to you
47:12
as the CEO, as the person sort of leading this charge,
47:17
how do you make such, not a huge shift,
47:21
but a significant enough shift
47:22
between different products and sort of bring that company
47:25
into the fold and keep that company on board with the mission
47:27
because keep in mind, you have this idea
47:31
about the imperfection economy and you have this idea
47:34
about how this particular product
47:36
is going to be marketed to customers and all of a sudden,
47:39
you've done a relatively dramatic shift.
47:41
Something that's sort of like pushing in a new direction.
47:44
How do you make sure the company stays on board?
47:47
How do you keep things rolling in the right direction?
47:49
What's the strategy to get everybody to buy into this?
47:52
I'll let you know in a year, you know,
47:55
it's literally, do it as you go.
47:58
That right there, this goes back to the beginning.
48:02
This is the character of the company
48:05
and the mission that we want to pursue.
48:09
So, you know, years ago when a Fedra was a Craves
48:14
and this company, Metabolites,
48:16
like became like this $2 billion company really fast.
48:19
And I remember talking to my partner,
48:21
co-founder, John Cognitt,
48:24
well, hey, should we take a look at this, a Fedra,
48:26
and we talked about it a little bit.
48:27
We both decided that if we go this direction
48:30
where like we sold supplements,
48:33
but we call it supplement assisted exercise.
48:36
It's not a supplement to get the results.
48:38
It's the exercise to get the results,
48:39
but the supplements get to enhance.
48:42
But if we were to go like, hey, take this pill
48:44
and you'll get these results, you can never turn back.
48:48
And we're not, that's not achieving the mission
48:52
and the message that we set out to achieve.
48:55
So, that's the test.
48:57
And I've got great people around me
48:59
who are as passionate, sometimes more passionate
49:03
about the mission than even I am.
49:05
So if I come up with an idea and they're like,
49:08
well, that's not aligned with our mission,
49:10
then they'll pull me back.
49:11
And that's why, frankly, that's why it's a powerful company
49:15
despite the ups and downs.
49:17
And it's been a rocky road as a public company,
49:20
but because we refuse to give up on that vision,
49:27
I think it's a very powerful company
49:30
and has the opportunity to be the leading brand
49:33
in health and fitness lifestyle change
49:35
and doing it the right way.
49:37
So just stay with it.
49:39
And we've got trainers that like we added
49:44
this trainer, Lacey Green,
49:45
she did a program with us called Four Beginners Only.
49:48
Like the first program that is literally
49:51
not about the six-packed, not about the booty and all that,
49:56
it's just about an on-ramp for a beginner
50:00
to feel like they're welcome,
50:02
was a trainer who specializes in making
50:05
every body CO welcome.
50:07
And she's fantastic and one of our most popular trainers
50:12
for to go to regional events that we hold
50:15
because she just makes everybody feel so good.
50:17
And when everybody feels good,
50:19
now they're pursuing health esteem,
50:21
not just the outcome.
50:23
And that's nuanced that we add to a company
50:27
that's known for abs and buns.
50:29
Would you consider yourself like a visionary
50:31
as a CEO, in fact, would you consider yourself a visionary
50:34
or I don't think so?
50:37
No, my vision is not that long.
50:41
Because you mentioned before,
50:42
this is where I was going with that
50:43
because you mentioned before the your leadership style
50:46
is more missionary over mercenary.
50:48
And I was trying to understand how someone else could really
50:54
understand what missionary leadership is.
50:56
And the best thing I could think about was visionary.
50:59
Like you're sort of setting the vision,
51:01
you're galvanizing everybody around,
51:04
you're the evangelist for the company.
51:06
But it's funny that you say that you aren't that.
51:09
So maybe explain to me why you think you aren't that
51:11
because I think you are, to be honest.
51:13
But I mean, you know yourself better, obviously.
51:15
I think I'm a disciplined opportunist.
51:17
That's what it is.
51:18
So you got all these opportunities in front of you.
51:24
And the question is weighing them
51:28
based on how they might intrude
51:32
or help people solve a problem.
51:35
So I'm just, this is why I don't know that it's
51:40
it's visionary.
51:41
I'm just dealing with all the pieces that I see in front of me
51:44
and the problems that we're experiencing.
51:46
And then what I am with all this experience,
51:51
experience and a discipline of focus
51:54
lets you put pieces together that other people
51:58
whose priority might be how do I make all the money
52:03
right or how do I knock somebody off
52:05
who's already doing something.
52:07
They're not focused on the problem.
52:10
They're focused on how do I make money?
52:12
How do I create market?
52:13
And we're focused on, wait a minute,
52:15
this is still a problem here.
52:17
Let's try to put these pieces together.
52:18
Wait, look at that little piece.
52:21
That's really part of the problem.
52:22
We're so focused on that.
52:24
That's where breakthroughs happen
52:26
that create billions of dollars of opportunity.
52:29
And that's what P9X was.
52:32
Even Tony Horton didn't want to do P9X.
52:36
But I said, look, there are some people
52:39
who if they don't see crazy extreme aspiration
52:45
they will think it's not gonna work for me
52:47
because they only get these kind of results in the gym.
52:50
And I said, I want something extreme
52:51
as I go into my forties.
52:53
I've never had a six pack and I've never really felt
52:56
like I was as strong as I could.
52:57
So that's what I want.
52:58
And so we were just taking signals that we were getting
53:02
and putting them together.
53:03
So if that's vision, okay, then that's vision.
53:08
But I didn't see the idea of connected shittiness
53:13
that Peloton executed incredibly well.
53:16
I didn't see that coming or the need for that.
53:19
But it was a great alternative to going to a gym
53:23
to do a spin class, right?
53:24
And so it was great vision.
53:26
I think it appeals to a probably a more narrow layer
53:30
of people than perhaps the market expected.
53:33
But great vision off of that point then.
53:37
So then what do you mean by missionary
53:40
over mercenary style leadership?
53:43
What does that mean then?
53:44
I believe that the mission of helping people
53:46
achieve their goals and help us all selling lives
53:50
is more important to me.
53:52
It is a both a bigger opportunity
53:55
and more important to me than perhaps finding a miracle till
54:01
that might give people the results
54:04
and make us a lot of money,
54:06
but will not solve the problem
54:07
that we've set out to solve.
54:09
And that is the importance of movement,
54:11
the importance of nutrition.
54:15
That doesn't mean I would reject these things.
54:19
But like we've had many offers to incorporate
54:23
a semi-glutite or a GLP one into our ecosystem.
54:29
And I'm not saying I would never do it.
54:32
I'm saying it might be a component of something
54:37
that we would look at, but it would never replace
54:40
the priority of helping people keep moving
54:43
and eat better and reduce sugar.
54:46
So like that's always the priority.
54:48
If we can help some people who are really struggling
54:51
with a GLP one and we have no plans to currently.
54:54
So I'll be spreading rumors, but I'm just saying as an example,
54:59
mercenary would be like, whoa, GLP one
55:04
is gonna be a $200 billion business.
55:08
Where can I get it?
55:08
How can we do it? How can we participate?
55:11
That's just not the problem I'm trying to solve.
55:15
I'm trying to solve the lifestyle problem
55:19
and that's where we need to stay focused.
55:20
That's missionary, and I also think that frankly,
55:26
since everybody needs it, it is also opportunistic,
55:30
but not to the point where I'm, oh, okay.
55:34
I think where missionary and mercenary are at odds
55:38
is where the desire, the mercenary,
55:40
the desire for profit and revenue undermines the mission
55:46
or rounds a corner on the mission.
55:50
That's the difference, I think.
55:53
One thing that you've spoken about before
55:55
that I think is interesting,
55:56
and I want to understand where this sort of thought came from.
56:00
If it, if it, when you say be aware
56:04
and to be cautious of falling into the social media trap,
56:08
are you speaking about,
56:10
are you speaking about when you're building a business?
56:13
Are you speaking about more about the actual end user
56:18
of programs looking at their progress?
56:21
Why is like just, you know, in your world,
56:23
why is social media sort of,
56:25
I mean, there's a lot of reasons why social media
56:27
is a red flag for people,
56:29
but why is social media sort of a red flag
56:31
or something to be cautious of for you?
56:33
Nothing will make you more miserable
56:34
than comparing yourselves to somebody else's fiction
56:36
on their social media scene.
56:39
And the more you pay attention to certain
56:43
sictional portrayals of people
56:48
and their real lives or their lack of problems,
56:51
the more the algorithm will serve that to you more,
56:54
those kind of stories,
56:56
the more you will start to feel bad about yourselves
57:00
if you're not behaving in a way that would direct you that way
57:04
or if you're encountering problems
57:06
or difficulties in judging yourself
57:09
against somebody else's discipline
57:12
or ability to show up or their body fat percentage,
57:16
that's just a recipe for misery.
57:18
You have a huge community.
57:19
I'm assuming that mental health and wellness
57:22
and not comparing your wellness to somebody else
57:26
is on social media.
57:27
That has to be a message that you're just trying to repeatedly
57:30
put out to the people that are taking your programs
57:33
because I'll tell you, you know, it's so interesting.
57:37
I've seen, you mentioned before and after pictures,
57:40
I've seen before and after pictures
57:42
of fitness influencers that really just change the lighting
57:46
or change the angle of camera
57:49
in the before picture and the after picture
57:51
and they look like totally different people.
57:53
It could be six months apart between the before and after
57:56
but ultimately it was like two minutes difference.
57:58
So that's the social media,
58:00
especially people that are on this health and wellness journey,
58:02
weight loss journey, physical health journey,
58:05
it can be so disheartening and so demoralizing
58:08
to look at what somebody else looks like
58:11
or what they've achieved.
58:12
And I think that can mindset's half the battle, right?
58:15
So if you keep comparing yourself,
58:18
it's just gonna be super unhealthy.
58:20
Totally agree.
58:22
And I don't think anybody's immune,
58:23
like, you know, you got to be pretty special
58:26
and have some sort of zen-like confidence
58:28
or comfort with yourself to not beat yourselves up.
58:33
And that is, frankly, part of the wellness battle.
58:37
That is part health esteem is understanding
58:41
where you are in life, what challenges do you have?
58:45
And forgiving yourself when life knocks you down
58:49
and applauding yourself when you got the resilience
58:54
to get back up.
58:54
After 26 years in this industry,
58:57
you've mentioned a few things that have sort of kept
58:59
your company alive and well and relevant
59:01
but looking back just for entrepreneurs that are listening,
59:06
what would be some wisdom that you could give them
59:09
so that their companies could have a 26-year life spanning?
59:12
That's phenomenal.
59:13
You know, I've had maybe five or six rushes with Dash
59:19
or, you know, existential periods
59:23
running this company for 26 years.
59:27
And there's a reason for that.
59:28
One is the market changes around us.
59:31
So we have to adapt and really try to sink out ahead
59:37
or we got complacent and didn't keep up.
59:43
Or things happen in the marketplace
59:45
and the return on investment of certain things didn't keep up.
59:50
So survival, which is the whole game,
59:55
means keeping track and this is very business sort of 101.
1:00:01
Know how much cash you need to be able to weather
1:00:05
a difficult storm.
1:00:07
You know, we saw so many companies fail during the pandemic
1:00:10
and just brutal, but who would have thought
1:00:13
that you needed to have 18 months of capital stored up
1:00:17
while the whole world was upside down?
1:00:19
Like you would never necessarily know that,
1:00:21
but these are the environments to make sure
1:00:25
that the way you manage debt, the way you manage cash flow
1:00:31
and distributions of that cash
1:00:35
and the way you even risk your own personal situation
1:00:39
against the companies all contribute to making sure
1:00:42
that you're gonna be able to survive a difficult period of time.
1:00:46
Likewise, never let the good times
1:00:52
intoxicate you because I guarantee they're not going to last
1:00:58
and you better figure out what the reinvention is going to be
1:01:02
when it comes because at best you've got six years.
1:01:07
More likely you're on a two to three year cycle
1:01:12
but when things are really killing it, at best
1:01:15
you are gonna find yourself in an existential situation
1:01:18
in six years.
1:01:19
That's been my experience and if you don't have
1:01:23
an innovation and an approach that is a real reinvention
1:01:28
by six years, you're probably gonna be in trouble.
1:01:31
We've been lucky to stay ahead of that curve just enough.
1:01:34
You know, we've gone through a lot of great topics.
1:01:37
What would be one thing that I should have asked you,
1:01:41
one question or one piece of wisdom that you think
1:01:43
would like to leave the audience with before we wrap up?
1:01:46
Wait, you should've said, how can I get some of that shake?
1:01:48
Yeah, no, no, I already know the answer to that.
1:01:50
Listen, I got that, you're gonna get,
1:01:52
we'll get all those links.
1:01:54
I'm gonna get some because I also hate eating vegetables
1:01:56
and I also try and find other ways to get around eating
1:01:59
like a full salad at every meal and I get me fun of
1:02:02
but whatever it's my thing, now I have a kindred spirit.
1:02:04
I'm one of the million who's like you.
1:02:06
So I'm gonna get some of that but we'll put all those links
1:02:09
in the show notes and I'll dig advantage.
1:02:11
I'll do a little bit of self-promotion or one concept
1:02:14
that I really love about this company, okay?
1:02:17
So the one thing, if you're saying,
1:02:19
it's also one thing that is a,
1:02:22
what they call a USP or a unique selling proposition
1:02:25
that you think is outrageous about body, here it is.
1:02:30
The fact that we continue to combine the desire
1:02:36
to lead a healthier lifestyle,
1:02:39
start working out more consistently,
1:02:41
start eating more healthy and we combine that
1:02:44
with the opportunity for anybody to monetize that
1:02:49
with an affiliate program.
1:02:51
Used to be the network and we transitioned that now
1:02:54
to an affiliate program that is super simple,
1:02:56
that literally anybody can say, hey, you know what?
1:02:59
I'm gonna do this program, let's call it,
1:03:03
they're gonna do the Belle de Tau program
1:03:05
that comes out in December, 12th week program for women
1:03:08
and they say, let's let's use the Belle de Tau
1:03:12
for women and dig deeper,
1:03:15
Shaunti's lifting program, the 12th programs for men.
1:03:18
So you're gonna do one of these two programs,
1:03:22
but it might be a little bit more motivating
1:03:24
for you to do it if you know that doing it
1:03:28
and sharing about it could actually make you real one.
1:03:32
And the fact that we've combined that
1:03:33
so anybody can make, you know, so let's say
1:03:36
you're gonna do dig deeper and you tell your audience
1:03:39
that you're gonna do dig deeper
1:03:40
and you give them your link that you get
1:03:42
from our affiliate program, you make up the 50%
1:03:45
of the revenue that's generated, like that's real money.
1:03:49
And you deserve that because you're the one initiating
1:03:53
that inspiration for people to get involved.
1:03:57
And I think that is really unique in the space,
1:04:01
you know, like, look, you don't need another
1:04:05
fancy piece of equipment.
1:04:06
There is no fitness, nutrition, breakthrough
1:04:10
that's gonna change everything.
1:04:11
It's really just about the little decisions
1:04:14
and stacking them up consistently.
1:04:16
And how do you do that?
1:04:17
You layer on motivators and you have a good program
1:04:20
that's fun to stick with.
1:04:22
That's dig deeper, that's Belle de Tau.
1:04:24
And now the addition of a monetary reward
1:04:28
for sharing it with other people.
1:04:30
And I think that's really unique in that.
1:04:32
And you don't need to be a health and fitness expert
1:04:34
to wanna inspire people or create a group,
1:04:36
people who are gonna do it with you.
1:04:37
But if you get five people to do with you,
1:04:40
you deserve the 500 bucks that that should come from that.
1:04:45
I'll tell you something, like that's such a great
1:04:47
marketing strategy.
1:04:48
And I see like how all the different ways
1:04:50
that you've marketed over the life of the company,
1:04:53
they've led you to this.
1:04:54
It's so smart, a lot of businesses should adopt it.
1:04:56
I don't think many do because if you find something
1:05:00
that impacts your life in the way that any
1:05:02
of your programs impact your life,
1:05:04
you're gonna talk about it with your friends
1:05:05
and family anyways.
1:05:07
Because this is huge, just imagine, imagine,
1:05:09
you couldn't find a program, you hate going to the gym,
1:05:12
you don't play an organized sport anymore,
1:05:15
you're not part of a league,
1:05:16
you find something you could do from your own house,
1:05:18
and it changes your life, your healthier,
1:05:20
you feel better, more energy, you talk about that.
1:05:22
So it's very smart to sort of incentivize.
1:05:24
It worked great in the network model,
1:05:26
but then we found that people would go,
1:05:28
oh, is that one of those MLMs?
1:05:29
And then they'd like no thanks.
1:05:31
They would reject the premise just because
1:05:33
the business model, so we had to move the business model
1:05:35
out, simplify it.
1:05:36
And now it's just like you see influencers in the shaleats.
1:05:39
And apparently there's research that says that 54%
1:05:42
of the people with full-time jobs age 18 to 60.
1:05:46
People age 18 to 60 who have full-time jobs,
1:05:49
54% of them would love to make money
1:05:53
as an influencer if that was an option to them.
1:05:56
That's a lot of people.
1:05:57
The goodness is, 170 million of them
1:06:00
are overweight or obese,
1:06:02
and could combine that desire
1:06:05
with the need to take care of themselves better.
1:06:09
And I think that's a really unique thing about body,
1:06:11
and that's what I'm super proud of.
1:06:12
I love it.
1:06:13
Okay, so where can people go?
1:06:14
So what are the links places you want to send people?
1:06:16
Because you got a lot of stuff going on,
1:06:17
so where do they go?
1:06:18
Keep it simple, just go to body.com.
1:06:20
V-O-D-I dot com.
1:06:22
And it's all going to be right there.
1:06:25
You scroll around, you can find the affiliate program,
1:06:28
you can buy individual programs,
1:06:30
you don't have to subscribe to the platform,
1:06:31
like you can just buy, if you want to dig deeper,
1:06:34
you can buy that.
1:06:35
If you want to delve a towel in December,
1:06:37
you can buy that.
1:06:38
Shakeologies in there.
1:06:39
So that's the best way to just roam around
1:06:41
and see what I'll look for you.
1:06:42
Are you on social?
1:06:43
Do you want to drop your own handles or no?
1:06:45
You just send people the body and hook up.
1:06:46
I don't care if you will follow me.
1:06:48
Okay, cool.
1:06:50
Last question I always ask everybody,
1:06:51
you've had a great career,
1:06:52
you could go back and tell your 20 year old self
1:06:55
one piece of advice, what would that thing be?
1:06:59
I would say, hey, look, you're gonna,
1:07:05
you're gonna get frustrated and think,
1:07:07
you don't know where this is going,
1:07:12
and it's gonna be hard, but if you stay focused
1:07:16
and don't let yourself get distracted,
1:07:21
you will see the answer as long as you refuse to give up.
1:07:25
That's what I would say to this.
1:07:27
I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say.