Latest / Skin Anarchy / Jill Manoff, Editor In Chief of GLOSSY

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Jill Manoff, Editor In Chief of GLOSSY · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: I know she's very busy, and I'm sure all of you have heard of Glossy and Glossy Publications.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: So she is the editor-in-chief of Glossy Publications, Jill Manoff.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to the show.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Jill, I'm so thankful that you're here.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: Ecta, I'm so appreciative.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: Excited to talk to you.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Very excited to talk to you.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's such an honor to host someone of your caliber.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm really excited to learn all about your career and your journey because I know you must have worked so hard to get to, you know, to where you are.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I just can't wait to learn all about it.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can take us uh back down memory lane and just tell us like how you got into editorial and journalism and just where it all began.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm older, so it goes back really far.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Let's just say that.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we have plenty of time.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: So please tell us all the deeps.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: If I'm going too deep, you just taught me.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, I'm from St.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: Louis, Missouri.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm actually uh staying here right now with my family uh until our office reopens in New York.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: But um really, you know, I went to a local college here, um, Webster University.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I I thought, you know, I've always been obsessed with fashion, most more so fashion than beauty, um, early on in my in my career and in my life.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I just, you know, it seemed really far-fetched that I'm going to be an editor or I'm gonna work in the fashion industry.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if it's a Midwest thing or uh, I don't know what it is.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: It just seemed like um, yeah, dream on.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I went to Yeah, I went to college and I um, you know, I majored in psychology because I I liked a course that I had taken.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and then my mu my father was like, you need a business course or you're not gonna go anywhere if you're not getting your master's and gonna be a psychologist.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: And um anyway, I double majored in management and I literally, you know, I I graduated um in, I guess after 9-11, like I'm that old.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so I really took the first job that um I I saw an opportunity for.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: I went to a college job fair and I anyway, I was an executive um account executive at a local um company for about two years and literally looking for a creative outlet.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, get me out of here.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: I cried when I got I cried when I got the job.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: I and my mother was like, who cries when they get a job?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I'm gonna get sucked in and this is gonna be my life.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: It is so boring.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's so funny.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was um, I guess I was like still figuring it out.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: I found there was a a newspaper, a local publication here called The Riverfront Times.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I would, you know, it was the time where you find job found jobs in the paper.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so um I always looked to see what else was out there.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: And at the grocery store here in St.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: Louis, we have two, there was a free publication.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um you could pick it up on the way out.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's called, it was called Alive, and it was just starting.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it it kind of was evolving.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: It started as a nutrition and fitness magazine.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and there was an ad for a live magazine that they were looking for um writers, fashion writers.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, heck yes, I want to do that.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: I don't care.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: I reached out, um, I didn't have a lot of experience.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: Although in college, people, you know, professors would say, Um, are you a journalism major?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: You're a great writer.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I uh, you know, I feel like you should listen to those cues, but I did not major in journalism.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so I just I took this freelance job literally.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a big proponent of paying your dues.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I was, you know, I definitely did that.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: I did um freelance stories for$25 a pop that I would spend hours on.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like wow.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: But that's like that, you know, you like that's passion, you know, that's really wanting to do something.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that though.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you really like dived in and you know.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I definitely did.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: I eventually kind of uh they hired me full time.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: I took a pay cut to be their fashion.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if my title out of the gate was um editor or reporter, um, but kind of to run their fashion um copy and stories.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: And um I was doing some beauty as well until they hired a beauty editor.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, when I joined, it was the first month that they did a fashion spread where I was like styling it and writing it and doing all this all the things.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, definitely I took a pay cut to become their full-time um fashion person.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, to my my family's horror, like, what are you doing?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it was a young startup publication where I was coming from more of a corporate established type of a company.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um it just seemed like it was really risky.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: So um I was so glad to do it.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I don't care.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: I this is what I want to do and I will figure it out.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I was there for a long, long time.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: I was at a live magazine for um, it became kind of the counterpart to St.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: Louis magazine, um, where it was more a luxury lifestyle publication.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it had uh kind of a nightlife, there was a lot of nightlife.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: We hosted events, um, we featured the that in the publication.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: We did um these features on, we always had a celebrity on the cover.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, there are so many St.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: Louis celebrities like Kamura Lee Simmons and um Derek Blasberg and Carly Kloss and all those guys.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: So it was it was cool to do all of that and get that experience.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I have eventually I was making my money.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and where I found an opportunity was being a stylist in St.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: Louis.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: And there are large um businesses here.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: There was Brown Shoe, which is now called Colaris, um, Anheuser Busch, Baker Shoes, which was a mall brand and is no longer in existence.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, or maybe they're online only, but anyway, it's not what it was, it's not the same owner.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but anyway, I was doing freelance styling on the side, like killing myself, where I was like, so help me, God, if I don't, if I only get to write in the middle of the night, I'm gonna write because that was actually my passion.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I was getting really burnt out on the styling um part of my life.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's a lot of running around, it's a lot of you think that you're doing something creative and and I don't know, styling these outfits for this photo shoot, but it just got to the point where I was setting up a closet for the creative director on set, and they would kind of just like fish through and pick out what they wanted to use.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that that happens a lot with stylists, but I was just it aggravated the crap out of me.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I know doing this.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like, you know, you're like, I know I can do a lot better than this.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, you know, you it I think when when intelligent people we we just don't like being stuck.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I've noticed.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like we don't we don't like being stagnant.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I think there's phases, you know, like you'll go through a phase and you'll go through like certain jobs, and then you're like, okay, time to move on.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Time to move on.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, what am I doing here?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: But honestly, I think it took me a while to figure that out because I was doing this a live at freelance styling gig.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: I would, I don't know, nine years, something bananas.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like I said, I'm older and I was looking for um a job again, um, anywhere and everywhere that was um focused on writing.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: I just I knew I wanted to write.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't want to style anymore, write full time.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I, a little bit again of a roundabout move, I found an opportunity in Chicago um to be the gosh, what was my title there?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think I was the um head copywriter.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I was eventually the the editor of Sears Style.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: I went to Sears Holdings Corporation.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um wow, yeah.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um they were out in Hoffman Estates.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: I would take the long commute to get to the office so that I could live in the cool part of town.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, it was like Target style.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think that still exists.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: And they were trying to change consideration and um be among fashion shoppers where it's like we're cool too.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: If you're if you're buying something trendy, come here.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: They had a very fast brand called Metaphor.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: At the time, they had Kardashian Collection, um, all that kind of stuff, which is wild.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then I love that though.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool that you've worked for like, see, like this is what I really love about editorial.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, honestly, Joe, like, um, you know, I I think that the hustle and the grind and the like go get them attitude that like uh you know editors have is just so amazing.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just love listening to the stories because you know, like just your story, like so far, like I'm just like, that's so cool.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like she just went after it, you know?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I really resonate with that because I think about like the younger generations now, and I'm like, you guys don't understand.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you gotta work, you gotta work hard.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like whatever comes your way, you gotta take it, you gotta go with it, you know what I mean?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then eventually you'll get to a place where you're like, okay, you know, this all paid off.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: This is where I wanted to be in my career.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: I very much thank you.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate that.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: I I have always been like, you know, I found my way.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: I just feel like, like you said um earlier about like not settling or getting stuck.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I I feel like um, you know, right now I've been at Glossy for five years and I, you know, there's no like looking around.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I'm where I want to be, and it's about growing where I am.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: But when you know when you're when it's not up fit, you know?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: And then you can move on, like you said.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what happened after Chicago then?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: What was the next one?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: And Sears, that was very apparent when it's time to move on.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't about not liking my job.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: I I really liked the people I worked with.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we would go to San Francisco about once a month to um work with their um creative folks and photo studio.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: I got to do, I guess, a little bit of styling involved as well.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so all the things I loved.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, Sears, you know, it was already struggling.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how many years ago this was now.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but uh there were layoffs.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: I was never laid off, but uh I this sounds so mean, but I was like, so help me God, I'm gonna find a new new job before Sears lays me off because that's like my all-time low.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Be ahead of it.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, be ahead of the game.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I bombed up at um in San Francisco.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: I bounce around a lot.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, San Francisco for um Mode Media.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: We worked with them at Sears for various um projects.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so I knew of them.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: They were looking for an editor of glam.com.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so mode, it was a startup, although, you know, almost 10 years in, I think, when I started.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and they had various titles.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: They had Foodie, which is dedicated to uh it's a pool, pool of writers that you that each editor works with um that are not in-house or freelancers.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you work with them to, I guess, pinpoint the stories they're gonna write.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: You edit the stories that you actually feature on the site.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: And uh it was very much driven by social media and Facebook.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um we did, you know, if we saw a lot of traction with a Kim Kardashian story for Glam, that was often the case.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: It would be like, what more can we do with Kim Kardashian?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: It was very much about clicks and hits.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there was a parent site called Tend.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: It was dedicated to moms or catered to moms.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um they did a lot on Chrissy Teagan.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: She was kind of their golden ticket there.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was always a hit if we did a story on Chrissy Teagan.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um so it was fun.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: I was there a year and a half, um, which again is not long.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't know what it was.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't love living in San Francisco.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: I think I didn't wasn't there long enough to, I guess, get settled.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but they abruptly shut down.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: I know I was gallivanting at Fashion Week when it happened, and it was like my boss at the time was like, Are you coming to the town hall meeting?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I don't know.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: I uh maybe if I can get to a coffee shop.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: And he was like, You probably should get there.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: There's big news.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if Moe's gonna exist in in the next hour.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, excuse me.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, you hear things, there were rumblings, there were, there were some layoffs.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but that was like, holy cow.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I was just kind of like, get home, get out of San Francisco, which I knew I didn't, that's not where I wanted to be.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: I never really worked until I moved to New York, where there was a strong, large fashion community.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: It was always like me and like two other people.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, in San Francisco, I met Megan McDowell, who's now at Vogue Business, and kind of like she and one other girl, like we um were the fashion.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know, it's grown in it, but um, in terms of media, um, it's very, very small.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: So um, there wasn't a lot of opportunity that I saw in San Francisco.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so I was just like, get me out, and I I packed my stuff and moved back to my parents where I'm a workaholic.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like when they shut down mode, I was like, I lit speaking of Chrissy Teagan, I had just interviewed her for a story like on site at a show.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I was gonna sit down and write it in my and it was kind of like what I was like, I just wrote, I just I'm I sat down to write my interview whenever this call happened, and I was like, what do I do with this interview?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like I I was like kind of like lost and what do I do with myself?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so yeah, immediately I had already become a fan of glossy.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um glossy launched in May of 2016, and they um we, they, they will say they, I wasn't there yet, um, but they started with a focus on fashion, luxury, and technology.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so there was a podcast.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, beauty was not even a part of it.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and when I started, and it was about how digital and technology are impacting fashion the fashion world, which at the time fashion, you know, was moving and accelerating so, so fast.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't beauty, it wasn't there yet.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that was still kind of pretty stagnant in comparison.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: And um, so I listened to their podcast at the time it was um hosted by Shereen Patek.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and she um I was just like the way that they spoke about the industry, both in the stories and on the podcast.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: I was so enamored and and I obsessed.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: I would basically, you know, we did the clickbait types of stories on on mode media, and I always would like cater my own stories to somehow fit this kind of a glossy vibe where it would be on a the latest in fashion tech.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: Or um anyway, I took a lot of inspiration from what glossy was doing because I found that's that the way I wanted to be writing about fashion, where it was um thoughtful and smart, and there's data to back up what what I'm saying.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's not some um, you know, out of my blitz.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: So random.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, I love that.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know glossy was so young though.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: I thought like glossy was around for a long time.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like 2016 is pretty young.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: It we're very young, and we're under, we um are lucky enough to be under the Digiday Media Umbrella, which um Digiday, our our sister publication, launched.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they're over 10 years in.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, their their lens is the evolution of uh media and marketing.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so they had a retail reporter, Hilary Milneys, and she was really um taking, she was the she was covering the evolution of the space um from the same mindset, how digital digital and technology are impacting retail.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: She gravitated toward fashion.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the her editors and and Nick Freeze, our CEO, saw what was happening in fashion and saw the opportunity there to launch Glossy.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I started six months in, um, where again I saw this editor job while I was at Mode Media and I wasn't ready to look for a new job.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then whenever Mode went bust, I went to look for the job.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: It it was gone for a short time.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think they were gonna hire somebody else.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um I was like, I'm kicking myself.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, why didn't I apply?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: That would have been so perfect.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it came back up um on one of those job boards, and I was just like, yes.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I immediately applied and, you know, obsessed about um my application and my cover letter.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I think they did the same thing that I do, which is um, you know, give us three story pitches with the sources you'd use for each.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and just yeah, I guess over overdid it like I tend to do in terms of the the work, um, which is you know, that's what's got that's what it takes though, you know.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, Jill, like people with that kind of work ethic, like there's not a lot of you guys.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I really need to like make sure people understand that are listening that, you know, you you gotta do that, you know, you gotta be that person that is not not a you know, okay, yeah, we were workaholics, so am I, you know what I mean?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a special kind of like personality trait that church was born with, but I think um, you know, you don't have to you don't have to be a workaholic, but you definitely have to be a go-getter, you know what I mean?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you really have to show that you're passionate about something, you know.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I have so many questions you'll be so shocked to get, where people are like, Well, how do you, you know, how do you become like an editor and like a real like, you know, like up there, not just an intern.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, dude, I first of all, I'm not an editor.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Second of all, from what I've learned, you know, after interviewing amazing people such as yourself, it's it's a lot of hard work.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that's really why I keep like emphasizing that because I know that there's people out there that are listening and they have these questions.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, um, I love that though.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you like just kind of off the bat, you're like, I gotta finish my article.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, I I just I really, really admire that in people.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, hats off too.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: I always am like, for better or for worse, literally when I when I took the job at Sears from from my first job in St.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: Louis where I was running myself crazy and I actually had a weekend to not work and to like do what I wanted to do, like I was like, you know, I don't know what I like to do.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, from going to working 24-7 to actually having that work-life balance a little bit more.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, anyway, I'm not great at work-life balance, let's say, um, but I'm getting better.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: Saturday is a good one.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay, neither am I.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Neither am I.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: We will learn.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I mean, I want to know though, because with glossy, like, you know, you guys, glossy is such a unique publication.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: I really enjoy it.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I um before Skincare Anarchy, I before I even started it, I was always like, you know, reading the articles, and I was like always interested in the coverage that was there.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, what really is your like your inspiration for um glossy?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know that, you know, um, as editor-in-chief, it must be a, you know, well, first of all, like what is like the real role of editor-in-chief?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start there because I think we need to clarify that.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it was um, it's intimidating that title.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'll tell you what.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, when I started there and I um you go from first of all, moving to New York for the first time and and taking um leading a team in-house.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: Literally, that for me, I I had it um led teams.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, I take that back.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: I did that a little bit in Sear at Sears, but to lead um multiple people in-house with uh a role and I guess um content matter that I was newer to.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: I was moving from consumer-facing content to B2B, um, which it was actually very new for me.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: And to be leading a team to do that was something that was also new to me.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, man, I was, it was um a stressful time, let's say, where I and I'm very determined, where I'm like, I'm gonna get this and I'm going to grasp the content and educate myself on what I don't know.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, for instance, how to speak to earnings or how to um yet get some of those.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Contacts and sources that I didn't have.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so grateful for some people that reached out to me and even introduced me to people in the industry and in New York.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: At the time, Brian Morrissey was the editor-in-chief of Digiday and his wife Anna Angelek, I hope I'm pronouncing it correctly, but she uh reached, she was one of the early people who reached out to me and said, you know, she's she's very immersed in the fashion community.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: And she's like, you should meet this person, you should meet this person.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I took every opportunity to do that because, and that was so valuable.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: So again, kind of paying my dues and getting my bearings and knowing what I had to do to feel confident to lead a team, which I feel like that is my role to um, first of all, um, in terms of what glossy does, um I kind of see us as being a guide to um industry, a guide to industry insiders about where the industry is going, if that makes sense.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: So we have a lot of readers who are entrepreneurs.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh they, you know, the old saying that everyone's a founder, but like we do have a lot of people who listen to the glossy podcast, for example, because we do like you're doing now, which is go through how people got to where they are and people grasp onto that content and want to learn others' path.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so we have a lot of entrepreneurs and founders and and the people who read our website on the day to day.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: I always imagine this person who's in-house at an Estee Lauder or at a, I don't know, tapestry, and um, they want to be the thought leader in-house or they want to be the go-to for um when there's a new, like we want to do something in marketing that's really impactful.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like they have the answer because, you know, they're well versed on what's happening in the industry and what's up and coming to kind of um based on our coverage.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm always telling my team, always, like, we are not the experts, we don't know what the hell's happening in the industry.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: This is why we need to be talking to people like basically like 24-7.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: If you're not writing, we should be on the phone, um, talking to executives, um, ideally people from influential companies, um, people who are the decision makers, maybe they're not the CEO, they're a director, but they're leading this team and leading this initiative that's really um proving impactful.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so I think, yeah, the more we learn from those types of people, the better we can be at guiding um our readers who who look to us to be better at their jobs, if that makes sense.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, definitely.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a really um, that's a really great point that you made is like, you know, it's very important to have this culture of just wanting to learn, wanting to be, you know, to put out content that is um educational, you know, and so wherever you can get that information, you go and you get it.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like it for me, like personally, I've you know been in science my whole life.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so this idea of just like if you don't know, then you go to the books or you go to a professor or you go to, you know what I mean?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like you go to the source and you go and figure it out kind of thing, you know, and so I really love that, and I love that you um are carrying that message forward um to your team at Glossy, and that that that is the vision that you're kind of you know um attaching yourself with.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because honestly, I'm not gonna lie, Joe, like in this, in this industry, I mean, you know it way better than I could ever know it.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like from what I've noticed, there's so much misinformation and there's so much misguidance.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like it, it kind of like it not only bothers me, but it hurts me because there's so many young people out there, even like young entrepreneurs, right?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And like young, young professionals that like they don't know who to get advice from.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: They don't know like where to go and what to ask, and like, you know, um, you know, the real stuff.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And people are just out there just BSing them, you know, left and right.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like to have you know publications like Glossy and to have people in charge like such as yourself that makes me feel better because you know, I I genuinely I worry about these individuals.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: I worry about our youth and our, you know, the next generation that's up and coming.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and and so yeah, like that's very close to my heart, the idea of like educating and really informing rather than like I don't know, just throwing random facts out there, I guess.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my God, you are we we are talking about this all the time.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure you're you're getting even more scared as you see uh the misinformation on on TikTok and even um people presenting themselves as an authority or as an expert and saying things that are wrong.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Don't even get me started on that.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: I literally, okay, I okay, you know what?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: I am gonna get a little started.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: TikTok for me is a little bit, it's something that I think like the media, like you know, just sector and like publications really need to step in a little bit and we need to like take over like TikTok a little bit because the people on TikTok are the reason why people's skin is like just being demolished.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: I swear it is because I look at that because you know, we we try to put on put content up on TikTok as well for skincare anarchy, and we're always browsing.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: My team's always sending me like example videos, and it's like the most ridiculous stuff.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I really wish an editor could see this and just get their hands on this person because on this, this is like just a mess, you know what I mean?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, I hear you.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, a CC from TikTok is pressuring me, like, get on TikTok, your your face needs to be on there.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like you that's something interesting you're saying.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: That would be a good um, what do you call it where it's side by side to like have a response to to a bullshit um oh yeah, where you can like stitch like the like the little things?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh my gosh, most of them do it, do it.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, seriously, I did it the other day with one and I I've been getting some hate comments, but it was for the better good, you know, it was for the better good of the of people.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: But no, I think you should do it.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that and it would actually be a fit for glossy because we kind of pride ourselves on taking a critical, like you said, a critical look at the industry.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, we get PR pitched all day and night, um, and just to kind of take a step back and say, you know, is this a line?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: What's really going on here?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, does this impact the industry or does it just impact this the brand at hand?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: And if it doesn't, you know, if it if it doesn't mean anything to anybody else except the brand, we don't typically don't go there and and we do hopefully uh take a critical look at at all touch points um and ask more questions.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: And um if somebody says growth, give me numbers and and all that jazz.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I think that's really, really great.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to actually um shift a little bit and talk about um, you know, in terms of just like because obviously, you know, I'm interested in just like publications such as glossy because I really do think that the industry needs just a more truthful approach, you know what I mean?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Just more like really fact-based and stuff.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So like I want to get your opinion about just writing these days and journalism these days.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, do you think that like what do you think about this whole shift into like this digital age of journalism and publications?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's your opinion about all that?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's definitely, I mean, it's exciting.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: I would say, like you said, there are like pitfalls or downfalls um in terms of anybody can write anything and and put it out there.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it might not be the best information.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it it has to do with for for readers or people who are interested um in a topic with finding those reliable sources and and then going from there.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, we're moving fast.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: I was just interviewing somebody for for for a role.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, hey guys, we're hiring a managing editor.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: But um anyway, I was interviewing somebody and she was saying um basically that her background is in print and they've since you know started focusing on digital more so in the last couple of years.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: And she was talking about the evolution and and how they're still doing print and how right, they just shot something that was like pumpkins for October 2022.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, oh my god, like is this still happening?
• 30:38
  unknown: Like, what the heck?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it's bananas, like things are moving too fast.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, if you're doing a pretty catalog, like that's just about um, I guess, yeah, prettiness, maybe inspiration.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if things will still be inspirational if you're working on it a year in advance, actually.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, digital is is necessary considering, well, digital is fueling the speed of everything, but um, it's definitely for journalism, it's the only way to go, I would say.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm trying to think what else in terms of like we're covering the speed of everything as well.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, as we are seeing uh, I guess a trend take off in on TikTok, whether it is we right now we launched something called glossy pop, and it's basically picking up on things that are trends and and people, noteworthy people who are emerging on these platforms, which is where a lot of the movement is happening.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and we're I guess um challenging ourselves to comb through all of that and call out what is gonna matter to our reader.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's how we're looking at it.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: So, like almost like a curator of for the fashion and the beauty industry, uh, these are the influencers that are, I guess, driving sales and um that are actually, I guess, authentic in in what they're saying and what they're telling their audience.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: These are the trends that are emerging.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, everybody's doing a I'm making this up, uh a blue eye eyeshadow, whatever, god forbid.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, but um a trend and as like purple blush, purple blush, by the way.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's a huge, yeah, like it's huge on TikTok right now.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you had a chance to like look, yeah.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: Get on it.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, we we owe a story to purple blush.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: This is good.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, and just like as as brands are in product development, um, whether they're nimble and moving fast or whether they're planning ahead, that can be on their radar and they can consider it that.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and yeah, and talking about the virality of things and and how things are going viral and what it takes.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's so funny to me.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like we just had our glossy beauty summit in Palm Springs last week.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, first of all, I mean the beauty community is something else.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like everybody knows everybody.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: We had this huge crowd of crowd of attendees.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: It was the best experience I've had in a very long time, being in my own little pandemic world.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: But anyway, shout out to everybody that was there.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but all of the talk about um the, I would say how things that were on platforms no longer are.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the more influencer in quotes somebody is nowadays, the less influential they are.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like everybody's seeing through that, and we're learning better as things continue to move on and we continue to look at platforms.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: We're learning.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the influencer is probably if they have millions of followers and they've been at it a while, you can tell when something is an ad, or you can you want to maybe find somebody that's more um more reflects your style or your your values.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and at the same point time, what was the expression that they use?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, oh my gosh.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it was kind of like the less planned content is like anyway, the raw, off the cuff content is what's flying.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: There were all of these examples of like, it's almost like this minefield.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what do you do?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like, find an influencer nobody knows, because they might resonate with somebody and like throw up a video that you made um randomly and and see if it flies.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: But that's kind of what they were telling us, which is is interesting.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my biggest question though with influencer is like how they blow up so fast.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's my biggest question, to be honest with you.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because there was a there's a girl, okay, and well, a young woman, and she's um just a year in, and she went from like zero followers to like 8.5 million.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, for crying out loud.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: In a year.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like a year.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what the heck, dude?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and she's you know, she's awesome.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Don't get me wrong.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: She's really, really easy to like, you know, kind of relate to.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: And she, I think she that part of it she's got down, but it's like for me, I'm really myself trying to grasp this idea, like in terms of media.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, what is it that influencers are doing that is resonating more with audiences versus something like what I'm doing, which is a podcast.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I invite on doctors, I invite on, you know, like editors of that are notable like yourself.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, what is it that people are really relating to?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I honestly I I can't figure it out either.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really don't, I don't know what the real, you know, the draw is.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, at the same time, it's also about, you know, we have to like, I feel like there needs to be some sort of like a not policing, but there needs to be some sort of like a um something in place that like kind of fact checks and also like calls out the influencers that are growing so rapidly and and just says like, you know, some some authority that says like, listen, this is really bad information and this is not correct, and you know, you can't you can't go off of this person's whatever because like there's a lot of people like that, right?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's just I get so confused with the influencer world.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, because you want to say, you know, for a brand, whether you're a brand or an influencer, if you're putting out wrong information, you're gonna get called out or it's gonna be in the comments and it's gonna fuel negativity around your posts and yourself.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: But honestly, people are more so looking at the the video.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: They're not digging into the comments, like they'll probably miss that.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_03: They'll probably probably just see the wrong info.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: And like you said, the the growth, it's wild.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: I think that there's something to be said for kind of the first movers advantage and um the people, and uh we're hearing a lot from influencers who got onto TikTok in March 2020 when the um pandemic started and people started um you know head down on the on their phone all day.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: And um that was kind of and just consistency in terms of posting that every day or um multiple times a day, and and really um staying true to like one niche area and not going too broad.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's been what they're telling us has been is the secret to blowing up, um kind of staying true to staying in your lane and and getting in early, which you know, every brand doesn't have the resources to um dabble or try every single emerging platform.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: There are a lot out there, um, whether it's live streaming or gaming or what have you.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I would say, you know, I think that that that's that would be a good good tip where if when you start to see traction, feel it out, um, put get in there and and don't wait.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think that would be good advice.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I agree.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: I totally agree.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, um it's just it's just a very interesting area, you know, the influencer world.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's very interesting.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it all began from YouTube, which, you know, there's some YouTube people though that I love, not gonna lie.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: Love Jackie Ina, you know, love her.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm just so happy that she's like so big now and that because she really gives advice, but there's a lot of other people that I'm just like, eh, you know, okay.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just blew up and and it just it it's just interesting to me.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I guess from like also from a psychology perspective, you know, just consumer psychology of just like what do they really connect with?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you're right, it's about the video, it's about, you know, I think it's more so about looking at this person, whether it's, you know, if they're connecting with them because of the how how they look, or if they're connecting with them because maybe they remind them of somebody that they know or themselves, or who knows, right?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: But it's uh it's just something that I think um is definitely worth like studying in a way, right?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like just to understand like what is the mentality of consumers when they um help brands like that go viral.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to actually round up the episode, um, Jill, and I want to get your advice because I think you're the perfect person to really um shed light on this industry in terms of like for young professionals and aspiring editors and just people who want to get into the media world about like you know, where to start, what to do, what are some of the things to look out for, or just any advice that you think is important.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's good.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna think about this and be thoughtful.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I looking at, I would say um don't think that something is like far-fetched.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: I would just encourage everyone to like take a stab if you are excited about something.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the most, I think that our intern right now, um, Nitya Rao, she's amazing and she's actually getting our um building our TikTok presence because she's young and knows her stuff and actually so smart and able to whip out stories and and do it all.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: But um she it was like a cold email to Priya Rao, our executive editor, and saying, you know, I'm at school locally here in New York.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I I love glossy, I'd love to write a story.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it just like started with some random email.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_03: We don't get those cold emails as often as you would think, and typically it turns out to be somebody stellar, um, where like you can tell they're passionate, they're not just doing the automatic application on LinkedIn with no thought behind it, no cover letter.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: I don't like the this day and age, you know, no cover letter, no thank you after an interview.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: I am old school, but anyway, when you see somebody that's taking those extra steps and they're writing you a personal email and explaining why they love glossy and that they get it, um, that totally stands out.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: And and you give that person the time of day because um, yeah, you can see their passion.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I would just say for anybody who wants to get into the industry, um, you know, internships, great.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I that's hard to say, like the when they're unpaid and everybody, I never did that.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: I was always jealous of my friends who would get the opportunity to like spend a summer in New York and intern for, you know, Marie Claire or Allure or something.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, my parents weren't in a spot where they could do that for me.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I always felt that I was kind of the um, I was at a disadvantage or I wasn't gonna, you know, get into get where I needed to be.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I would just say, you know, do what you can.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: And there's always a way.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: And if you don't have those, um, if you don't have as easy of a route or um handed it, handed to you in such a way, um, yeah, do the work and find the way.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, my my best advice, just having been in this role and having seen who we gave opportunities to, um, I would just say, um, yeah, be be genuine, be personal in your outreach, and and don't be afraid to go there and to and just and to just say, can I, can I be a part of this?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: Can I help?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: Are you looking for writers?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_03: Or um, yeah, or even if it's not a writer, like, you know, we do events, we do podcasts, we have producers.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if it's just something that you really feel is clicking with you in terms of uh content, wherever you want to be, um, yeah, just just reach out and let and you like I said, you find your way, you you just follow your passion.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think that's a good kind of foot in the door.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think everything you said is pure gold, you know.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I everyone listening, if you are a young professional and editor and you want to get into editorial, please take heed to what Jill said.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she is the pro, she is the expert here, and I and I really, really value your time and the fact that you, you know, came onto the show and just I I thank you so much.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's been such an honor hosting you.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: This is like the most enjoyable conversation of my week.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so, so much.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Jill.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I would love to have you back anytime, by the way.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if you ever have time, I would love to do a part two and just chat about anything that's going on.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, let's do that.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, guys.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, everyone listening, please leave your comments and suggestions or anything that you have in the comment section for the concept art for this episode.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I will be back next time.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
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• 44:24
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