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Cecilia Newball & Rene Perez Patreon Summer Sampler · The Path Went Chilly

0:30
Speaker 1: Welcome to this month's exclusive bonus Patreon minisoed for the
0:34
Speaker 1: Path went Chili and per usual, I'm going to be
0:36
Speaker 1: sharing some details about a case with Jewels and she
0:39
Speaker 1: will be giving off her live reaction. So, Jules, have
0:42
Speaker 1: you ever heard of the disappearance of Cecilia new Ball
0:45
Speaker 1: and Renee Perez.
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Speaker 2: I've never heard of this case.
0:49
Speaker 1: Well, this is a case I was featured on UNSAWD
0:51
Speaker 1: Mysteries and Cecilia new Ball was an immigrant from Al
0:54
Speaker 1: Salvador who was living in Los Angeles and was eight
0:57
Speaker 1: and a half months pregnant when she went missing, and
1:00
Speaker 1: she also disappeared alongside her son, Renee Perez Junior, who
1:04
Speaker 1: was only six years old at the time. You might
1:07
Speaker 1: recall that a while back youI and Ashley did an
1:09
Speaker 1: episode on the disappearance of Evelyn and Alex Hernandez, which
1:14
Speaker 1: is the number of parallels to this one, because Evelyn
1:16
Speaker 1: Hernandez was also an immigrant from Al Salvador who went
1:19
Speaker 1: missing from San Francisco in two thousand and two, and
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Speaker 1: her five year old son named Alex went missing alongside her,
1:26
Speaker 1: and then a couple months later they found Evelyn's torso
1:29
Speaker 1: and her legs in San Francisco Bay, but they never
1:32
Speaker 1: did find Alex or her unborn fetus, and it turned
1:35
Speaker 1: out at the time that she was having an affair
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Speaker 1: with a married man who was suspected of potentially being responsible,
1:41
Speaker 1: but there was no evidence against him. And this one
1:43
Speaker 1: is similar, except the key difference is that Cecilia Nubaal
1:47
Speaker 1: was actually married, and while her current husband was looked
1:51
Speaker 1: at at a person of interest, there wasn't really any
1:53
Speaker 1: strong evidence against him either. And even though this was
1:57
Speaker 1: featured on Unsolved Mysteries over thirty years ago, it's got
2:00
Speaker 1: and virtually no media coverage since then, and it sounds
2:03
Speaker 1: like the investigation has ground to a dead halt.
2:06
Speaker 2: That's really sad, especially when we have somebody from El Salvador,
2:09
Speaker 2: and we know historically with these cases, when somebody is
2:14
Speaker 2: from another country and they go missing or murdered in
2:18
Speaker 2: another country, it can be a lot of red tape
2:21
Speaker 2: to get through for the family, and it can also
2:23
Speaker 2: be incredibly expensive and endeavored to be flying to and
2:28
Speaker 2: from the country where this's happened, in this case in
2:31
Speaker 2: the United States to put pressure on the investigators, and
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Speaker 2: there can also be a language barrier, a cultural barrier,
2:39
Speaker 2: there is so many different factors at play here that
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Speaker 2: makes it an incredibly nuanced and heartbreaking situation.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we talked about this a lot in the
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Speaker 1: Evelyn Hernandez case. How parallels are often made between her
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Speaker 1: story and Lacy Peterson's because Lacy Peterson went missing several
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Speaker 1: months after Evelyn did, and her remains were also found
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Speaker 1: in San Francisco. But as I'm sure you know, Evelyn's
3:02
Speaker 1: case did not get a fraction of the media coverage
3:04
Speaker 1: as Lacey's did, and of course, as you all know,
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Speaker 1: her husband, Scott Peterson was eventually charged and convicted of
3:10
Speaker 1: her murder. But these cases here, Cecilia Newball and epil
3:14
Speaker 1: and Hernandez obviously didn't get much media coverage and they
3:17
Speaker 1: are still unsolved to this day. So it takes place
3:21
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles in nineteen ninety four. Cecilia Newball was
3:24
Speaker 1: thirty two years old at the time, and like I mentioned,
3:27
Speaker 1: she had immigrated from Al Salvador and got married to
3:30
Speaker 1: her first husband, Renee Prez Senior, before she gave birth
3:33
Speaker 1: to their son, Renee Junior in nineteen eighty eight. There
3:37
Speaker 1: aren't really too many details about Cecilia's first marriage. I
3:40
Speaker 1: just know that she got divorced from Renee Senior at
3:43
Speaker 1: some point, and then in nineteen ninety one, she became
3:46
Speaker 1: involved with a man named Alfredo Newball. The couple got
3:49
Speaker 1: married two years later, and at this particular point, they
3:52
Speaker 1: are living at an apartment together in Los Angeles's Chatsworth neighborhood,
3:56
Speaker 1: which is located in the San Fernando Valley, and cecil
4:00
Speaker 1: is eight and a half months pregnant. She also works
4:02
Speaker 1: as a customer service representative at a company, but is
4:05
Speaker 1: currently on maternity leave since she is going to be
4:08
Speaker 1: giving birth to her child soon. And Alfredo has a
4:11
Speaker 1: really interesting job. He works as a nurse's aide at
4:14
Speaker 1: a retirement home called the Motion Picture and Television Fund
4:18
Speaker 1: Wasserman Campus, which is a retirement community exclusively for retired
4:22
Speaker 1: members of the film industry, so he was technically working
4:25
Speaker 1: with elderly celebrities. It sounds like that if you were
4:28
Speaker 1: like a nurse's aid, this was a pretty high profile
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Speaker 1: job to get, so on the surface, it seemed like
4:33
Speaker 1: everything was good with their relationship. They both had good jobs.
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Speaker 1: It sounded like Alfredo was close with Renee Junior and
4:41
Speaker 1: very excited that Cecilia was giving birth to his first child,
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Speaker 1: but then shortly thereafter, Cecilia and Renee Junior would vanish
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Speaker 1: without a trace.
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Speaker 2: That is really interesting. I had no idea that there
4:54
Speaker 2: was retirement communities that were exclusively for those that were
4:58
Speaker 2: in film and TV. I'm not surprised, and I don't
5:03
Speaker 2: know if I've ever I've talked about how I went
5:05
Speaker 2: to Rehab many years ago, but I went to Promises
5:08
Speaker 2: in Malibu and it's no longer I think it's just
5:12
Speaker 2: in Arizona, but it was there for years and it's
5:15
Speaker 2: an institution in that area, and a lot of people
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Speaker 2: into film and TV and celebrities had had attended Promises
5:22
Speaker 2: at some point, so they would have alumni meetings, and
5:26
Speaker 2: I learned that there was actually like celebrity AA and
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Speaker 2: NA meetings that people would go to that you basically
5:33
Speaker 2: had to be a celebrity to be part of this group,
5:37
Speaker 2: which was I thought really interesting, and that of course
5:39
Speaker 2: there's meetings that are mixed, but there there are the
5:43
Speaker 2: most inspirational and intense, like in the scale we went.
5:49
Speaker 2: While I was attending, we went to several of these
5:52
Speaker 2: and there were so many celebrities there it was wild,
5:56
Speaker 2: Like I obviously can't talk about who was there because
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Speaker 2: it's anonymous. Yes, but you'd be very, very surprised. So
6:03
Speaker 2: the fact that there's this community that these people want
6:07
Speaker 2: to retire amongst each other makes total sense because obviously
6:12
Speaker 2: they're celebrities, but also they've got common interest. So if
6:15
Speaker 2: you're really into film and TV, like, what's better than
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Speaker 2: retiring with a bunch of other people that are into
6:20
Speaker 2: film and TV too, because you are able to watch
6:24
Speaker 2: and critique and discuss ad nauseum.
6:28
Speaker 1: And it must be interesting just being an outsider like
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Speaker 1: Alfredo working in a place like that and seeing celebrities
6:33
Speaker 1: that you've grown up watching in movies. And I'm guessing
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Speaker 1: that this has been funded by things like the Screen
6:39
Speaker 1: Actors Guild so that these people, even if they've been
6:41
Speaker 1: retired for a long time, have the necessary health insurance
6:44
Speaker 1: that they can go into a pretty like a high
6:48
Speaker 1: class retirement home and spend their golden years. So at
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Speaker 1: two thirty pm on September the twentieth, nineteen ninety four,
6:55
Speaker 1: Alfredo left to work his shift at the retirement home,
6:58
Speaker 1: and he said that as he was leaving, Celia was
7:00
Speaker 1: in the midst of writing some thank you notes to
7:02
Speaker 1: a number of friends and relatives who had thrown them
7:04
Speaker 1: a surprise wedding shower two days earlier because it was
7:07
Speaker 1: their first year anniversary of when they had gotten married. Well,
7:10
Speaker 1: Alfredo said that two and a half hours into his shift,
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Speaker 1: he said he had some sort of what he described
7:15
Speaker 1: as a weird feeling that something might be wrong, so
7:18
Speaker 1: he randomly decided to pick up the phone and call
7:21
Speaker 1: the apartment, but Cecilia did not answer, and throughout the
7:24
Speaker 1: course of the evening, Alfredo would attempt to call Cecilia
7:27
Speaker 1: several more times, but there was still no answers, so
7:30
Speaker 1: he eventually became concerned enough to leave work early, and
7:33
Speaker 1: when he returned to their apartment, Cecilia and Renee were
7:36
Speaker 1: not there. There were no signs of any forced entry
7:39
Speaker 1: or struggle or anything out of the ordinary. The only
7:42
Speaker 1: items that appeared to be missing were Cecilia's person or keys,
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Speaker 1: but he noticed that Cecilia's jeep was parked on the
7:48
Speaker 1: street rather than the building secured parking lot, which he
7:51
Speaker 1: found unusual, so he decided to check inside it and
7:55
Speaker 1: discovered Cecilia's wedding ring and her engagement ring lying on
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Speaker 1: the passenger seat, and they were next to a store
8:02
Speaker 1: bought green card which had a generic goodbye message written
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Speaker 1: on there, thank you for the good times we had,
8:08
Speaker 1: and Cecilia's name was signed underneath it. So on the surface,
8:11
Speaker 1: Alfredo was wondering if Cecilia just suddenly decided to take
8:15
Speaker 1: Renee and take off on him.
8:18
Speaker 2: This is very odd. I mean, I'm all for gut feelings.
8:22
Speaker 2: So when Alfredo is saying that he had this gut
8:25
Speaker 2: feeling and something was wrong and so we kept calling Cecilia,
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Speaker 2: I can understand from being in that perspective myself personally,
8:33
Speaker 2: when I was worried about somebody and felt it in
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Speaker 2: my gut and then you know it ended up being true,
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Speaker 2: how horrific that is, and how you don't want to
8:40
Speaker 2: be correct about that. But I can also see how
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Speaker 2: from a law enforcement perspective or from the perspective of others,
8:46
Speaker 2: when you have a missing woman and her child, you're
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Speaker 2: going were you trying to set up the fact that
8:53
Speaker 2: like you called to check in? Is this like an
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Speaker 2: type like an alibi person like type of a thing
9:00
Speaker 2: where you want to appear concerned or are you concerned?
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Speaker 2: So I can see how that could be viewed in
9:05
Speaker 2: two ways, and then the jeep being parked in an
9:09
Speaker 2: atypical spot. There's no sign of struggle, and that could
9:13
Speaker 2: mean multiple things if somebody set this up. It could
9:17
Speaker 2: have been that somebody knocked on her door who was
9:19
Speaker 2: like a delivery person or somebody who didn't seem threatening,
9:23
Speaker 2: and so she opened the door, and then maybe they
9:25
Speaker 2: were brandishing some type of weapon and ordered Cecilia and
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Speaker 2: Renee to come with them, and so they left and
9:32
Speaker 2: it appeared that nothing was wrong, but she grabbed her
9:34
Speaker 2: purse on the way out, or maybe she was instructed
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Speaker 2: to do so because this person wanted to perhaps steal
9:39
Speaker 2: her money and then and also her keys would have
9:43
Speaker 2: been in there most likely. And then they later go
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Speaker 2: and they plant the jeep and write this generic message.
9:50
Speaker 2: I do have a question about this greeting card though,
9:52
Speaker 2: so was it written in Cecilia's handwriting?
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Speaker 1: Well, it was a store bought greading cards, so that
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Speaker 1: the message thank you for the good times we had
10:01
Speaker 1: was already pre printed on there, and I can't really tell.
10:04
Speaker 1: They haven't established if they think that the signature on
10:07
Speaker 1: there really did look like Cecilia's handwriting, so unfortunately I
10:10
Speaker 1: don't have that information.
10:11
Speaker 2: And even if it did, if somebody would go to
10:14
Speaker 2: the great lengths to drive the jeep to the spot
10:17
Speaker 2: where Cecilia didn't typically park and buy this card and
10:22
Speaker 2: put the wedding rings there, obviously trying to set up
10:24
Speaker 2: a narrative, I would think that you could have her
10:27
Speaker 2: sign a card under duress and sign her actual signature,
10:31
Speaker 2: or even write a message that is.
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Speaker 1: True, because no one has indicated that they did not
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Speaker 1: believe that the signature looked like Cecilia, so it is
10:40
Speaker 1: possible that someone could have forced her to write it
10:43
Speaker 1: under duress. But of course, even though her person keys
10:46
Speaker 1: were missing, everything else was left behind, including her clothing,
10:50
Speaker 1: Rene's eyeglasses, and some pre natal medicine that Cecilia had
10:53
Speaker 1: been taken. And of course seems very unusual for a
10:56
Speaker 1: woman just decided to disappear voluntarily when she's eight and
10:59
Speaker 1: a half months pregnant, And so right from the outset,
11:01
Speaker 1: it looked like that this whole scene was staged. And
11:04
Speaker 1: you mentioned how like Alfredo's actions can be interpreted in
11:07
Speaker 1: a number of different ways, that maybe he's setting up
11:10
Speaker 1: the whole thing where he's pretending to act concerns so
11:13
Speaker 1: he can rush home and discover that his wife and
11:15
Speaker 1: stepson are missing in order to fabricate an alibi, and
11:19
Speaker 1: when he was interviewed on Unsolved Mysteries, he also overdramatized
11:22
Speaker 1: the last time he saw Cecilia, saying that I kissed
11:25
Speaker 1: her goodbye, but as I was walking to the door,
11:27
Speaker 1: I just had this feeling come over me where I
11:29
Speaker 1: had to go back and kiss her again. And then
11:31
Speaker 1: he left and he said that was the last time
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Speaker 1: he saw her alive, which can be seen as him
11:36
Speaker 1: over dramatizing thing, but also could be genuine and he's
11:40
Speaker 1: just interpreting these events differently because his wife went missing.
11:44
Speaker 1: But the first person Alfredo called was a guy named
11:47
Speaker 1: Kevin Annabel, who was one of Cecilia's friends from her job,
11:50
Speaker 1: as he wondered if she and Renee might have gone
11:53
Speaker 1: to stay with him, and Kevin would later say an
11:55
Speaker 1: Unsolved Mysteries during his interview that he told Alfredo that
11:58
Speaker 1: he didn't know were Secilia was, but he felt that
12:01
Speaker 1: Alfredo seemed oddly unconcerned about the fact that his wife
12:04
Speaker 1: and step son were missing and did not seem emotional enough,
12:08
Speaker 1: which once again can be interpreted in a number of
12:10
Speaker 1: different ways. But it was not actually Alfredo who contacted
12:14
Speaker 1: the police to report the missing as they received a
12:17
Speaker 1: phone call from one of Cecilia's relatives who was concerned
12:20
Speaker 1: about not having heard from her, and then Detective Alex
12:24
Speaker 1: Valades from the Los Angeles Police Department decided to call
12:27
Speaker 1: Cecilia's apartment. Alfredo answered the phone, and he confirmed that
12:31
Speaker 1: he hadn't seen Cecilia and Renee since the previous day,
12:35
Speaker 1: and much like Kevin Annabel, Detective Valads felt that Alfredo
12:39
Speaker 1: seemed oddly unconcerned and unemotional about the situation, particularly since
12:43
Speaker 1: his wife was only two weeks away from giving birth,
12:45
Speaker 1: so they were kind of surprised that he didn't call
12:47
Speaker 1: the police right away. But once again, you could just
12:50
Speaker 1: interpret his behavior in a number of different ways.
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Speaker 2: This is really difficult again because I can relate to
12:58
Speaker 2: Alfredo in this type of a situation because when something
13:01
Speaker 2: like I am one of those people who if like
13:04
Speaker 2: little things will give me anxiety, but something huge happens
13:07
Speaker 2: and I am oddly calm, and my husband always says
13:11
Speaker 2: that it freaks him out because it can be like
13:14
Speaker 2: he'll say, I'm like the eye of the storm where
13:17
Speaker 2: something crazy is happening around me, but yet I'm resolute
13:22
Speaker 2: in my ability to just stay calm. But that doesn't
13:24
Speaker 2: mean that under the surface there isn't some kind of
13:27
Speaker 2: struggle or emotion happening. It just means that that is
13:31
Speaker 2: the way that I function, And it's pretty common for
13:33
Speaker 2: people who have ADHD as well. So I don't know
13:38
Speaker 2: what the situation was. But I also think that, like
13:41
Speaker 2: when we say what is the appropriate amount of emotion
13:45
Speaker 2: to be showing, how should somebody be acting at this point?
13:48
Speaker 2: Maybe Alfredo is just assuming that like, Okay, I'm going
13:52
Speaker 2: to figure this out. I'm going to get a hold
13:54
Speaker 2: of her. So how much emotion should he be showing
13:57
Speaker 2: to Kevin Annabel? I don't know. I don't know what
14:00
Speaker 2: is appropriate, and I'm sure that he's never faced a
14:04
Speaker 2: similar situation where somebody's calling and saying the exact same thing.
14:07
Speaker 2: So how do we really gauge what is the appropriate
14:10
Speaker 2: amount of emotion? Like I understand law enforcement that they
14:14
Speaker 2: see these types of situations, but I also think that
14:16
Speaker 2: the way people react to traumatic situations, we've learned over
14:20
Speaker 2: time not to be so judgmental because it's highly individualized.
14:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like that's the problem with a lot of these
14:27
Speaker 1: true crime cases is that sometimes amateur slews base their
14:31
Speaker 1: entire opinions on a person's emotional and how they're acting.
14:35
Speaker 1: And it can go either way where they say, ooh,
14:37
Speaker 1: they're not showing any emotion at all during this interview,
14:39
Speaker 1: they must be guilty, or if they think they're too emotional,
14:42
Speaker 1: they're thinking, oh, they're just acting and over dramatizing things
14:45
Speaker 1: and attempting to put on a show. And I know
14:47
Speaker 1: that when I watched the Unsolved Mystery segment for the
14:50
Speaker 1: first time many years ago, my impression of Alfredo is that, well,
14:53
Speaker 1: there really isn't a lot here, like he could have
14:55
Speaker 1: done something, but there's no actual evidence, and I'm not
14:58
Speaker 1: going to base the entire thing on the fact that
15:00
Speaker 1: he didn't seem emotional enough when to talking with Cecilia's
15:03
Speaker 1: friends or the police, and there was really no evidence
15:07
Speaker 1: against him that he had done anything wrong because there
15:10
Speaker 1: was no signs of any violence or struggle inside the apartment,
15:14
Speaker 1: and he said that he left at two thirty, and
15:16
Speaker 1: we technically only have his word that Cecilia and Renee
15:20
Speaker 1: were still at the apartment when he was working, but
15:23
Speaker 1: when police were asking around, they questioned one of their
15:26
Speaker 1: neighbors and said that they thought they had seen Renee
15:29
Speaker 1: playing outside the apartment at five pm, when it was
15:33
Speaker 1: established that Alfredo was at work. So if this witness
15:36
Speaker 1: is accurate, then that means that Alfredo has an airtight
15:39
Speaker 1: alibi and that at the very least he couldn't have
15:41
Speaker 1: personally have been responsible for what happened, because obviously he
15:45
Speaker 1: couldn't have made them disappear before he went to work.
15:48
Speaker 2: So question about Alfredo, is he an immigrant?
15:53
Speaker 1: It's never been a special It's never really been clarified.
15:56
Speaker 1: Like he obviously looks like he is Spanish, but I
15:59
Speaker 1: don't know if he was actually from Al Salvador or
16:01
Speaker 1: if he was born in America.
16:03
Speaker 2: I just wanted to address the complexity of the relationship
16:06
Speaker 2: with law enforcement of people who are immigrants, because if
16:10
Speaker 2: Alfredo is an immigrant, it can take on a whole
16:13
Speaker 2: new meaning. Why he wasn't the one to contact law enforcement,
16:17
Speaker 2: because I mean, we can look at it's a very
16:19
Speaker 2: current thing now. If somebody is an immigrant or even
16:22
Speaker 2: a minority in the United States, they're going to be
16:25
Speaker 2: potentially afraid of whatever interactions they could have with law
16:30
Speaker 2: enforcement or border or ice so I can see how
16:34
Speaker 2: somebody could hesitate to call law enforcement. But also if
16:38
Speaker 2: you're thinking this person left of their own volition, of
16:42
Speaker 2: their own free will, even though when you lay out
16:46
Speaker 2: all the facts it sounds unlikely. Is she really Is
16:50
Speaker 2: Cecilia really going to leave without Renee's eyeglasses while eight
16:54
Speaker 2: and a half months pregnant. She could give birth at
16:57
Speaker 2: any point in time. If you're going to leave somebody
17:00
Speaker 2: and you're in this marriage and you're unhappy, you'd think
17:03
Speaker 2: that you would wait until after the birth of the child.
17:06
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess there would be certain situations where
17:09
Speaker 2: there would be stenuating circumstances, like if there was abuse
17:12
Speaker 2: in the marriage and you were worried for your infant
17:15
Speaker 2: being born, and then this person getting their claws in
17:19
Speaker 2: or clutches on you even deeper. So I don't really know.
17:25
Speaker 2: Did you know anything about the nature of their relationship,
17:28
Speaker 2: like did her family or did her friends speak about
17:31
Speaker 2: the type of dynamic that they had.
17:34
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like there was anything out of the ordinary.
17:36
Speaker 1: As we're going to talk about later, allegations would come
17:39
Speaker 1: out that Alfredo may have been unfaithful and possibly been
17:43
Speaker 1: conducting affairs, but there are never any allegations of any abuse,
17:46
Speaker 1: And according to everyone who knew them, it just would
17:49
Speaker 1: seem very out of character for Cecilia to just take
17:52
Speaker 1: off when she was eight and a half months pregnant,
17:54
Speaker 1: even if her marriage to Alfredo was not good. But
17:58
Speaker 1: it just had a one year anniversary wedding shower like
18:00
Speaker 1: two days earlier. So obviously it does not sound like
18:03
Speaker 1: their friends and family saw any red flags.
18:05
Speaker 2: No, And like leaving in that way where you're leaving
18:08
Speaker 2: behind all of your clothes in your child's eyeglasses while
18:12
Speaker 2: eight and a half months pregnant, the only type of
18:14
Speaker 2: scenario where that makes sense is if there was some
18:17
Speaker 2: type of horrific abuse.
18:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it does not sound like it was that
18:21
Speaker 1: way at all. And I mentioned the neighbor who said
18:24
Speaker 1: they saw Renee outside the apartment at five PM, Like
18:27
Speaker 1: that is a key detail because while there would be
18:30
Speaker 1: suspicion that maybe Alfredo knew more about the disappearances than
18:33
Speaker 1: he was letting on, if this neighbor was accurate then
18:36
Speaker 1: and placed Renee outside the apartment at five when Alfredo
18:40
Speaker 1: was already at work, then that pretty much establishes that
18:43
Speaker 1: he could not have been personally responsible for the disappearances
18:46
Speaker 1: of Cecilia and Renee.
18:48
Speaker 2: Did anybody close to Alfredo speak to how excited he
18:51
Speaker 2: was about his child being born.
18:53
Speaker 1: That's the thing is, I haven't heard too many comments
18:56
Speaker 1: from people close to Alfredo. Like we've heard some comments
18:59
Speaker 1: from some of Cecila's friends, and they don't mention anything
19:02
Speaker 1: about Alfredo looked like he was regretting it or anything
19:05
Speaker 1: like that. And Alfredo himself has claimed that he was
19:08
Speaker 1: looking forward to having his first child and that he
19:10
Speaker 1: had a close relationship with Renee. So on the surface,
19:14
Speaker 1: there don't seem to be any warning signs that he
19:17
Speaker 1: was like a Scott Peterson or anything like that and
19:19
Speaker 1: did not want to have a child.
19:21
Speaker 2: And I do think that it speaks to the type
19:24
Speaker 2: of person that he is. I mean, not all stepparents
19:27
Speaker 2: are great parents, but the fact that Alfredo would take
19:31
Speaker 2: on Renee as his child and help to raise Renee,
19:35
Speaker 2: that says somebody isn't afraid of children. If Cecilia had
19:39
Speaker 2: no kids, then maybe we wouldn't know. But like you said,
19:42
Speaker 2: the detail about Renee playing in the front at five PM,
19:46
Speaker 2: that basically cancels out Alfredo's ability to have done it himself, Like, yes,
19:51
Speaker 2: he could have set it up, but would he have
19:53
Speaker 2: had the motive to do so, Like, it doesn't appear to.
19:57
Speaker 2: He doesn't appear to. And I don't know if he
19:59
Speaker 2: would have had the financial means to be able to
20:02
Speaker 2: hire somebody to do this.
20:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I haven't heard anything about them checking his
20:07
Speaker 1: bank accounts or anything like that, So it doesn't sound
20:10
Speaker 1: like there were any read flags to suggest this was
20:13
Speaker 1: a murder for hire. But I haven't heard any reports
20:15
Speaker 1: about him having an hostile relationship with Renee and being
20:18
Speaker 1: resentful of the fact that the woman that he married
20:21
Speaker 1: had a child from a previous relationship, So it sounds
20:24
Speaker 1: like he had no qualms about taking care of Renee.
20:27
Speaker 1: So this is when the story starts to get very weird.
20:30
Speaker 1: On September twenty fourth, four days after they went missing,
20:33
Speaker 1: Alfredo received an envelope in the mail which was postmarked
20:36
Speaker 1: from Van Nuys, which is not too far from where
20:39
Speaker 1: they lived, and it contained a greeting card which was
20:42
Speaker 1: similar to the one found in Cecilia's sheep, but it
20:45
Speaker 1: also had a typewritten letter. I'm not entirely sure if
20:49
Speaker 1: this is the full contents of the letter. But when
20:51
Speaker 1: you watch the unsaw mystery saying, you could pause it
20:54
Speaker 1: and see it on screen. So I'm going to read
20:56
Speaker 1: a word for word transcript of the parts that I
20:59
Speaker 1: did see. Quote, Alfredo, I have gone to han Juris
21:02
Speaker 1: with a man I met nine months ago with the
21:04
Speaker 1: name of Arturo. He's a doctor. I don't know if
21:08
Speaker 1: this baby is yours or his. The surprise baby shower
21:11
Speaker 1: was just too much. I want the baby to be yours,
21:14
Speaker 1: but I'm just not sure. Renee and I are fine.
21:17
Speaker 1: Arturo is a very loving man, and I think he
21:19
Speaker 1: will take very good care of us. If the baby
21:21
Speaker 1: turns out to be yours, I'll notify you. I know
21:24
Speaker 1: how much you wanted this baby. Renee cries for you.
21:27
Speaker 1: I will tell him that you are not his father,
21:29
Speaker 1: and Arturo will love him just as you did in time.
21:33
Speaker 1: I will let him call you. I love you with
21:35
Speaker 1: all my heart, but you will not amount to anything,
21:37
Speaker 1: and I only want the best for my baby, Alfredo.
21:40
Speaker 1: You can't give us that. Our Touro is very smart
21:43
Speaker 1: and very rich. The other reason I left is because
21:45
Speaker 1: I hate your mother. I like your sister Bertha. I
21:48
Speaker 1: leave everything I own to you to do with what
21:51
Speaker 1: you want to sell the car, if you want to
21:53
Speaker 1: tell my dad and brother I love them very much
21:56
Speaker 1: and I will write them soon. I'm having Arturo's sister
21:59
Speaker 1: mail this letter from please just let Me Live my life, Adios,
22:03
Speaker 1: Cecilia and Renee. End quote.
22:06
Speaker 2: That's weird. So okay, I can understand somebody being in
22:10
Speaker 2: a predicament where they don't know who the father is,
22:13
Speaker 2: and so it would be incredibly anxiety provoking. But I
22:19
Speaker 2: also can't see her just leaving behind her life, leaving
22:23
Speaker 2: behind all of her possessions, like not even packing a
22:26
Speaker 2: suitcase of items of clothing, not just for herself but
22:30
Speaker 2: essentially for Renee. And when you love your child, you're
22:33
Speaker 2: not going to leave behind your child's eyeglasses, something that
22:36
Speaker 2: are essential for them to be able to see, you
22:39
Speaker 2: know what I mean. Like, it's just it doesn't really
22:42
Speaker 2: track for me. I mean, it sounds like somebody did
22:46
Speaker 2: their homework on this situation and they're trying to divert
22:50
Speaker 2: any kind of attention, But in sending a letter like this,
22:54
Speaker 2: you're just bringing more attention.
22:57
Speaker 1: It is pretty much, everyone, including Alfredo, felt that this
23:01
Speaker 1: card was staged. They did not believe that Cecilia wrote it,
23:04
Speaker 1: and of course because it was typewritten, they couldn't do
23:06
Speaker 1: any handwriting analysis to figure out it was from her.
23:10
Speaker 1: But one detail that everyone thought was weird is that
23:12
Speaker 1: it seemed to make more mention of Alfredo's side of
23:14
Speaker 1: the family than her own family, because she specifically said
23:17
Speaker 1: I hate your mother, but I like your sister, but
23:20
Speaker 1: then just said tell my dad and brother I loved
23:22
Speaker 1: them very much, but doesn't really go into specific details
23:25
Speaker 1: or half as any specific messages. And if she really
23:28
Speaker 1: was so close to her dad and her brother, it
23:30
Speaker 1: just seemed odd that she wouldn't send cards to them
23:32
Speaker 1: in which she kind of explained the situation, and not surprisingly,
23:36
Speaker 1: she never tried to contact them or contact Alfredo again
23:39
Speaker 1: after this. So it really does seem as if someone
23:42
Speaker 1: was just trying to give off the false impression that
23:45
Speaker 1: Cecilia and Renee ran away voluntarily, and they never did
23:49
Speaker 1: confirm that this doctor named Arturo existed or that Cecilia
23:53
Speaker 1: ever had an affair with him.
23:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all very strange, like those little minor details
24:00
Speaker 2: to add that, it's sort of like you have either
24:04
Speaker 2: some kind of inside knowledge into this family or you
24:08
Speaker 2: specifically knew to ask questions about the family dynamics and
24:13
Speaker 2: how Cecilia felt about certain family members. So it's two possibilities.
24:19
Speaker 2: Either it was somebody who was close to Alfredo and
24:23
Speaker 2: knew Alfredo and maybe it was targeted because of him
24:28
Speaker 2: for some reason. Or it was somebody that was close
24:31
Speaker 2: to both Cecilia and Alfredo and knew these details about
24:36
Speaker 2: the family, or when they abducted, if potentially abducted Cecilia
24:41
Speaker 2: and Renee, they knew to ask these questions. This is
24:44
Speaker 2: somebody who's obviously put some thought into this because of
24:48
Speaker 2: the way that they abandoned the jeep, left the greeting card,
24:51
Speaker 2: the wedding rings and thought to take her purse, but
24:56
Speaker 2: also then to send this card so much later, and
25:00
Speaker 2: to again just ignite suspicions. It's all very odd and
25:05
Speaker 2: like you said, wouldn't you think that like her family
25:09
Speaker 2: would be mentioned, like tell my family, I love them,
25:11
Speaker 2: tell them I'm okay. None of that is said, and
25:14
Speaker 2: what isn't said is as important as what.
25:17
Speaker 1: Is, and they haven't completely a discount of the possibility
25:21
Speaker 1: that Alfredo himself could have written the letter and mailed
25:24
Speaker 1: it to himself in order to say to the situation
25:26
Speaker 1: because the only hostility in the letter is directed at Alfredo,
25:30
Speaker 1: where she specifically says I hate your mother and also
25:33
Speaker 1: says you will not amount to anything. So theoretically, if
25:36
Speaker 1: Alfredo did this, he may have been like putting in
25:38
Speaker 1: these subtle little hints there about the issues with the
25:40
Speaker 1: marriage that maybe she and Cecilia were having problems because
25:44
Speaker 1: of their mother because she didn't like his mother, or
25:47
Speaker 1: maybe like she had said this to him in the past,
25:49
Speaker 1: that you're not good enough, you're not going to amount
25:51
Speaker 1: to it, and Alfredo was overcompensating by trying to make
25:54
Speaker 1: Cecilia look like this selfish woman who didn't really care
25:58
Speaker 1: about him and only wanted to get married this rich,
26:00
Speaker 1: fictitious doctor.
26:02
Speaker 2: And you know, I guess both things can be true.
26:05
Speaker 2: Like we always will say that when somebody is acting suspicious,
26:09
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that what they're hiding is that they're
26:12
Speaker 2: a murderer. They can be hiding a myriad of other things.
26:15
Speaker 2: So it is possible that Alfredo might not have been
26:18
Speaker 2: responsible for Cecilia and Rene's disappearance. But this constant suspicion
26:24
Speaker 2: that hangs over his head and the way that people
26:27
Speaker 2: maybe potentially in the community are looking at him. Law
26:30
Speaker 2: enforcement has cleared him, but I'm sure there's a lot
26:33
Speaker 2: of people that still give him the side eye. So
26:35
Speaker 2: if he wanted to exonerate himself, it is possible that
26:39
Speaker 2: he could have sent this letter so that it cleared
26:43
Speaker 2: him even further, or the at least he thought that
26:46
Speaker 2: it would clear him even further. It just it does
26:49
Speaker 2: feel so weird. It feels like it's either somebody close
26:52
Speaker 2: to him that knew him, or it's him.
26:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's always been suspicion that even if Alfredo didn't
26:59
Speaker 1: personally do it, he may have known more than he
27:01
Speaker 1: was letting on. And I have seen people in cold
27:04
Speaker 1: cases do very stupid things even though they're innocent, where
27:08
Speaker 1: they will like stage things or like do dumb actions
27:11
Speaker 1: to try to make themselves look more innocent, but are
27:13
Speaker 1: only backfuyers on them. And who knows, maybe even if
27:16
Speaker 1: Alfredo didn't do it, he could have still taken these
27:19
Speaker 1: steps to send off this fake letters to try to
27:21
Speaker 1: paint himself in a better light. So a close friend
27:24
Speaker 1: of Cecilia's name, Cammy Giacomi, would claim that six months
27:29
Speaker 1: before Cecilia went missing, she told her that she had
27:32
Speaker 1: received an anonymous phone call from a woman who said
27:35
Speaker 1: she had a videotape of Alfredo kissing another woman at
27:38
Speaker 1: a baby shower. This caller told Cecilia that she would
27:42
Speaker 1: get in touch with her again in order to range
27:43
Speaker 1: a meeting to show her this tape, but Cecilia never
27:47
Speaker 1: heard from her again. And one piece of information I
27:50
Speaker 1: don't have is whether or not Cecilia told Alfredo about
27:53
Speaker 1: this phone call or confronted him about it, or if
27:56
Speaker 1: the only person she told was her friend Cammy. But obviously,
28:00
Speaker 1: even if Cecilia had suspicions that maybe the woman's telling
28:03
Speaker 1: the truth, she obviously didn't think it was serious enough
28:06
Speaker 1: to like end the relationship with Alfredo, because obviously they
28:09
Speaker 1: were still together six months later and planning to have
28:12
Speaker 1: the baby. And it's unclear to me if Cecilia thought
28:15
Speaker 1: that there was any credence to this phone call or
28:18
Speaker 1: if she just thought it was nothing more than a prank.
28:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really hard to know where someone's head is
28:24
Speaker 2: at with regards to that. She may have had our
28:26
Speaker 2: suspicions she might have believed that he was out there treating,
28:30
Speaker 2: out there cheating, or running the streets but they may
28:34
Speaker 2: have had a conversation about it, and who knows. He
28:37
Speaker 2: might have said like, yeah, it's true, but I promised
28:40
Speaker 2: to change, and she might have accepted that. We just
28:43
Speaker 2: don't We can't know because all we can really go
28:45
Speaker 2: off of is what Alfredo was telling us. We don't
28:48
Speaker 2: have Cecilia here to either confirm or deny that, so
28:53
Speaker 2: we can really only speculate. And I wouldn't think that
28:57
Speaker 2: Alfredo cheating would be a reason for her to run
29:02
Speaker 2: away at eight and a half months pregnant then, and
29:06
Speaker 2: to do so without all of her things. It just
29:09
Speaker 2: doesn't track for me. I think you would want to
29:11
Speaker 2: be in a safe place to have your baby and
29:13
Speaker 2: to go to your obgyn so that you can safely deliver.
29:18
Speaker 2: Those would be things that I would think would be
29:20
Speaker 2: top of mind for most heavily pregnant women.
29:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was thinking that even if she
29:25
Speaker 1: found out Alfredo was cheating, she probably would have waited
29:28
Speaker 1: until after giving birth in order to confront him about
29:31
Speaker 1: it or maybe end the relationship, because there's no indication
29:34
Speaker 1: that there was any abuse. There's no indication that Alfredo
29:37
Speaker 1: was trapping her or anything. And you would also think
29:40
Speaker 1: that the very least she would have told her father
29:42
Speaker 1: and brother if there were these issues and if she
29:44
Speaker 1: was planning to leave and then just not take off
29:46
Speaker 1: without telling anyone. So a couple weeks before Cecilia went missing,
29:51
Speaker 1: she told Cammy that she received another odd phone call
29:54
Speaker 1: from a woman. But it's never been established if this
29:57
Speaker 1: was the same woman who told her about the videotape,
30:00
Speaker 1: but she said that this woman told her that she
30:02
Speaker 1: was a coworker of Alfredo's and that the staff at
30:04
Speaker 1: the nursing home wanted to have a surprise baby shower
30:07
Speaker 1: for him. This coworker said that she was going to
30:10
Speaker 1: arrange a meeting with Cecilia to pick out a piece
30:13
Speaker 1: of baby furniture for Alfredo, but she asked Cecilia to
30:16
Speaker 1: keep this a secret because this baby shower was supposed
30:19
Speaker 1: to be a surprise, and according to Cammy, Cecilia said
30:23
Speaker 1: that this meeting was supposed to take place apparently on
30:25
Speaker 1: September the twentieth, the same day that she and Renee
30:29
Speaker 1: happened to go missing. When investigators looked into this, they
30:32
Speaker 1: discovered that there was no surprise baby shower planned for
30:34
Speaker 1: Alfredo bias coworkers, and none of his coworkers admitted to
30:38
Speaker 1: having phoned Cecilia to talk about the baby furniture. So
30:41
Speaker 1: the piece of the puzzler starting to come together, and
30:44
Speaker 1: it almost appeared that maybe Cecilia was lured to a
30:47
Speaker 1: meeting with this woman with the baby furniture and possibly
30:50
Speaker 1: brought Renee along, but for whatever reason, this woman decided
30:54
Speaker 1: to kill them both. It might be a thing where
30:56
Speaker 1: she only wanted to kill Cecilia and did not expect
30:59
Speaker 1: Reneda come along, but felt she had to get rid
31:01
Speaker 1: of him as well because he was a witness.
31:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, and who knows, maybe this is somebody who really
31:09
Speaker 2: wanted to have a baby and they couldn't. Like we've
31:11
Speaker 2: seen cases like that. So if you have a woman involved,
31:15
Speaker 2: I think that certainly opens up the possibility that the
31:18
Speaker 2: primary motivation was Cecilia's unborn baby.
31:22
Speaker 1: Yeah. This has been brought up because there are other
31:24
Speaker 1: documented cases of fetal abductions where women, some of them
31:28
Speaker 1: like poor immigrants, will be lured to meetings under the
31:31
Speaker 1: pretense of being given stuff and then they wind up
31:34
Speaker 1: being murdered by someone who tries to steal their fetus.
31:37
Speaker 1: And it was only a couple years later in September
31:39
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety eight in Fresno, California, when a similar
31:42
Speaker 1: thing happened with a forty year old woman named Marguerita
31:45
Speaker 1: Flores who was eight months pregnant and was lured to
31:48
Speaker 1: a warehouse by another woman who was posing as a
31:51
Speaker 1: charity worker and said she was going to give Flores
31:54
Speaker 1: some free baby furniture and a one year supply of diapers.
31:58
Speaker 1: The name of this woman was Josephinus Sonia Saldana, and
32:01
Speaker 1: she wound up murdering Margherita pulling out her fetus, but
32:05
Speaker 1: unfortunately the child did not survive, and Saldania wound up
32:08
Speaker 1: being caught when she went into a hospital and it
32:11
Speaker 1: sought medical attention for this fetus, and everyone discovered this
32:15
Speaker 1: woman was never pregnant. This fetus is obviously not hers.
32:18
Speaker 1: So when they heard about the baby furniture with Cecilia,
32:21
Speaker 1: some people wondered if a similar situation might have happened.
32:24
Speaker 1: But the problem with that theory is with someone who
32:27
Speaker 1: wanted to kill her for a fetal abduction go to
32:29
Speaker 1: the trouble of like driving her jeep outside her apartment,
32:32
Speaker 1: leaving behind this fake greeting card and also mailing a
32:36
Speaker 1: fake letter to Alfredo a couple days later.
32:39
Speaker 2: I think it's possible. It just depends on the type
32:41
Speaker 2: of personality who is going to commit this crime, because
32:46
Speaker 2: if you want to divert attention from the potential motivation
32:50
Speaker 2: being fetal abduction, then I think making it look as
32:54
Speaker 2: though Cecilia and Renee simply left and Cecilia was finished
33:01
Speaker 2: with her marriage to Alfredo, putting the wedding rings there
33:04
Speaker 2: with the card, I think then you're trying to put
33:07
Speaker 2: as much distance between your motivation and what would be
33:12
Speaker 2: the perceived motivation to law enforcement. This is somebody who's
33:16
Speaker 2: very well organized and has planned out what narrative they
33:20
Speaker 2: want to be perceived by law enforcement and probably by
33:23
Speaker 2: the community as a whole.
33:26
Speaker 1: I think that if this was a planned fetal abduction,
33:28
Speaker 1: it had to be someone who was at least familiar
33:31
Speaker 1: with Cecilia and Alfredo, because this other woman that I mentioned,
33:34
Speaker 1: Josephina Sonia Saldana, it sounds like she was a complete stranger,
33:39
Speaker 1: and she obviously did not plan this whole thing out,
33:41
Speaker 1: since she tried to take this fetus to the hospital
33:43
Speaker 1: and pass it off as her own, even though she
33:45
Speaker 1: had never been pregnant. But the fact that this caller
33:49
Speaker 1: was specifically mentioning a baby shower for Alfredo and talking
33:52
Speaker 1: about a co workers and saying it's a surprise, seems
33:56
Speaker 1: to show that they had some intimate knowledge of Cecilia
33:58
Speaker 1: and Alfredo's personal life, and that they were convincing enough
34:02
Speaker 1: that they could have lured Cecilia to some remote location
34:05
Speaker 1: and then decided to kill her.
34:07
Speaker 2: It just makes me wonder is this somebody who was
34:09
Speaker 2: already close to them, or is it somebody who inserted
34:13
Speaker 2: themselves into their lives because Cecilia was obviously pregnant and
34:19
Speaker 2: they wanted a child, and so they did the homework,
34:22
Speaker 2: they did the reconnaissance, they figured out all this information
34:27
Speaker 2: and potentially got close enough to know about the family
34:30
Speaker 2: dynamics and the way that Cecilia felt about Alfredo's mother.
34:35
Speaker 2: It's just such an odd detail put in there, but
34:39
Speaker 2: that's a point if Alfredo wrote it to try to,
34:43
Speaker 2: you know, clear himself in the eyes of the community.
34:48
Speaker 2: I it's just as soon as a woman was introduced,
34:50
Speaker 2: it totally changed my perspective on things that it's likely
34:56
Speaker 2: going to be fetal abduction as a motive.
34:59
Speaker 1: In my mind, I've always wondered, like, how many people
35:02
Speaker 1: have actually gotten away with fetal abductions where they actually
35:05
Speaker 1: stole the fetus and the child survived and then they
35:08
Speaker 1: went on to raise them. Because obviously we know about
35:10
Speaker 1: the fetal abduction cases that wound up being solved where
35:13
Speaker 1: the perpetrator was caught. But I'd be curious to know
35:16
Speaker 1: if there are any pregnant woman who went missing where
35:18
Speaker 1: the perpetrator manages to successfully extract the fetus, get rid
35:22
Speaker 1: of the victim's body, and then go on raising the
35:25
Speaker 1: child without anyone finding out.
35:26
Speaker 2: It's like, we only know about the serial killers who
35:29
Speaker 2: have been caught, so the information that we have is
35:33
Speaker 2: going to be just a fraction of what is out there.
35:36
Speaker 2: The successful ones that have avoided being captured and avoided
35:40
Speaker 2: being incarcerated, we don't know anything from them. We only
35:43
Speaker 2: know about the ones who lost and ended up behind bars,
35:46
Speaker 2: and the same goes for fetal abductions. We only know
35:49
Speaker 2: about the unsuccessful feudal abductions. So I'm with you, I
35:52
Speaker 2: would be incredibly interested to know how it would have
35:56
Speaker 2: been easier decades ago if people wanted to do with abduction,
36:01
Speaker 2: but now with everything being online, and how would you
36:05
Speaker 2: obtain a birth certificate. It would be easier if the
36:08
Speaker 2: person was in potentially an immigrant community, and then you
36:12
Speaker 2: could explain away how you would have maybe given birth
36:16
Speaker 2: somewhere that wasn't a hospital, and that that would have happened.
36:19
Speaker 2: But you can examine a woman and see if she's
36:21
Speaker 2: given birth, and then you could also examine the DNA.
36:25
Speaker 2: But I don't know. I'm sure that there has to
36:28
Speaker 2: be multiple cases where this has happened and it's well,
36:33
Speaker 2: it's gone successfully in that the woman who was pregnant,
36:37
Speaker 2: whose baby was taken, was never found, and then this
36:40
Speaker 2: person just went on to raise this baby as if
36:42
Speaker 2: it was their own.
36:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be curious to see if any of these
36:46
Speaker 1: get exposed sometime in the future, because we've seen with
36:49
Speaker 1: genetic genealogy a lot of people being exposed as serial
36:52
Speaker 1: killers where they're posthumously linked to all these unsolved murders,
36:56
Speaker 1: but at the time they were alive, they were never
36:58
Speaker 1: on the radar as a suspect. Who knows, maybe we'll
37:00
Speaker 1: see like forty fifty year old women doing DNA testing
37:04
Speaker 1: and finding out that they were stolen from their murdered mother.
37:08
Speaker 1: So another interesting detail is that they As far as
37:11
Speaker 1: I can tell, I don't think that Renee's father, Renee
37:14
Speaker 1: prez Sor, was ever considered to be a suspect. I
37:17
Speaker 1: have no idea of his current whereabouts or his alibi
37:20
Speaker 1: on the night that Cecilia and Renee went missing. But
37:23
Speaker 1: interestingly enough, Rene Senior would wind up moving into Alfredo's
37:26
Speaker 1: apartment after they both went missing, and they apparently became
37:30
Speaker 1: close friends, as I saw an interview in the Los
37:33
Speaker 1: Angeles Times where Renee Senior and Alfredo said that the
37:36
Speaker 1: grief surrounding what happened brought them closer together. And I'm
37:40
Speaker 1: thinking to myself, if Alfredo was responsible for what happened,
37:43
Speaker 1: or he knows more than he's telling on, then this
37:46
Speaker 1: is awfully brazen to get the father of a missing
37:48
Speaker 1: child to move in with you and possibly like monitor
37:51
Speaker 1: you at all times, meaning that if you said or
37:54
Speaker 1: did something suspicious, Renee Senior could find out. But the
37:57
Speaker 1: fact that they formed this close friendship makes me think
38:00
Speaker 1: that Alfredo, even if he knew more than he was
38:03
Speaker 1: letting on, felt that he had nothing to hide.
38:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you. I don't think you're going
38:07
Speaker 2: to invite the father of Renee into the home where
38:12
Speaker 2: you've got an eye on him all the time, and
38:15
Speaker 2: he's got an eye on you, you grow incredibly close, Like,
38:18
Speaker 2: why would you want to do that? It just seems
38:21
Speaker 2: like a really big risk to take, unnecessarily if you
38:26
Speaker 2: were guilty, which I don't believe that Alfredo was guilty
38:30
Speaker 2: of the disappearance or potential murders. I do think there's
38:34
Speaker 2: a possibility that he did write that letter or that
38:37
Speaker 2: greeting card that was received later, but I don't think
38:40
Speaker 2: that he had anything to do with what happened to them,
38:43
Speaker 2: And so the fact that they were able to come
38:46
Speaker 2: together and commiserate over the loss of Renee and Cecilia,
38:51
Speaker 2: I think whatever support that those who are close to
38:55
Speaker 2: them can have at that point in time is a
38:57
Speaker 2: beautiful thing.
38:59
Speaker 1: It is because I'll often see cases where if a
39:02
Speaker 1: spouse comes under suspicion, everyone will turn on them and
39:05
Speaker 1: pretty much point the fingers at them, even if there's
39:07
Speaker 1: no evidence to suggest that. But the fact that someone
39:10
Speaker 1: you could consider to be his romantic rival, like Cecilia's
39:13
Speaker 1: ex husband and the father of this missing child, became
39:16
Speaker 1: close friends with Alfredo and did not believe he was responsible.
39:19
Speaker 1: I think speaks volumes. Now. The case would be featured
39:22
Speaker 1: on Unsolved Mysteries in April of nineteen ninety five, and
39:25
Speaker 1: this was only seven months after Cecilia and Renee went missing,
39:29
Speaker 1: So there was a legitimate hope at that time that
39:31
Speaker 1: maybe they were still out there somewhere and were still
39:33
Speaker 1: alive and would maybe come forward if they were watching.
39:37
Speaker 1: And Alfredo did an interview, And we've talked many times
39:40
Speaker 1: before how it's fairly common practice on the old Unsolved
39:43
Speaker 1: Mysteries for suspicious spouses to give interviews and come off
39:47
Speaker 1: really badly, people like Juwel Kaylor. But I will say
39:50
Speaker 1: that out of all of them, Alfredo Newball comes off
39:53
Speaker 1: as one of the best. Like he does seem sincere
39:55
Speaker 1: and grief stricken when he's giving his interview, and he
39:58
Speaker 1: gives off this heartfelt me such at the end, Cecilia,
40:01
Speaker 1: if you're watching, even if you don't want to rekindle
40:04
Speaker 1: our relationship, that's okay. At least contacts someone to say
40:08
Speaker 1: that you're okay. And he also threw in this detail
40:11
Speaker 1: about how at the very least get in touch with
40:14
Speaker 1: your dad because he's not doing well, And that just
40:16
Speaker 1: sounds like one of those things where he does sound
40:19
Speaker 1: sincere where he really genuinely wants his wife to come back,
40:23
Speaker 1: or at least say that she's okay. He's not acting
40:25
Speaker 1: like juwel Kaler and saying, well, since Cecilia went missing,
40:27
Speaker 1: things are actually pretty good. But at the same time,
40:30
Speaker 1: the show's featured an interview with the lead investigator, Detective Valadez,
40:35
Speaker 1: and he continued to express his suspicions about Alfredo and
40:38
Speaker 1: said this line quote, it is my opinion that mister
40:41
Speaker 1: Newball is not telling me everything that he knows as
40:44
Speaker 1: far as Cecilia's disappearance. He may not have been there
40:47
Speaker 1: when she disappeared, but it's my opinion that he knows
40:49
Speaker 1: something now end quote.
40:52
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a possibility, but my gut is telling
40:55
Speaker 2: me that Alfredo doesn't have anything to do with the
41:00
Speaker 2: appearance of Cecilia and Renee and his unborn child. I
41:04
Speaker 2: think it's a lot. It would have to be really
41:06
Speaker 2: intense circumstances to think that he would agree to being
41:11
Speaker 2: part in this abduction and murder plot. I mean, I
41:15
Speaker 2: guess you could say like he was in a relationship
41:17
Speaker 2: with some other woman and like that was the woman
41:19
Speaker 2: that called about the baby furniture and that they worked
41:23
Speaker 2: together and the woman abducted Cecilia and Renee, and then
41:29
Speaker 2: later Alfredo went and ended their lives. But I just
41:33
Speaker 2: I don't really buy that. I think the most likely
41:35
Speaker 2: scenario is feudal abduction, and I think that Alfredo probably
41:40
Speaker 2: just based on what we've heard from Kevin what was
41:44
Speaker 2: Kevin's last name, Annabel, Kevin Annabel earlier on and law enforcement,
41:50
Speaker 2: we've seen that maybe the way that Alfredo interacts in
41:54
Speaker 2: these situations puts up red flags for some people. And
41:57
Speaker 2: it could just be that his demeanor is really calm.
42:00
Speaker 2: So I don't know. I don't think that he is
42:04
Speaker 2: the person who's responsible or does he know more? Maybe,
42:07
Speaker 2: but I don't know. My gut's telling me that he
42:10
Speaker 2: has nothing to do with the disappearances.
42:13
Speaker 1: Well, there's one more twist of the saga that I
42:15
Speaker 1: want to share. Like after was on Unsolved Mysteries, it
42:18
Speaker 1: completely faded from the spotlight. But then in June of
42:21
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Office released a
42:24
Speaker 1: special bulletin in which they classified Cecilia and Renee's disappearances
42:29
Speaker 1: as a murder investigation and their bulletin contained this statement
42:32
Speaker 1: quote the investigation has determined that Cecilia's husband was having
42:36
Speaker 1: an extramarital affair at the time of her disappearances. Law
42:40
Speaker 1: enforcement considers him to be a person of interest end quote.
42:43
Speaker 1: But unfortunately they do not provide any further details or context.
42:47
Speaker 1: So maybe if they did find out that Alfredo was
42:50
Speaker 1: having an affair, that could cast him in a more
42:52
Speaker 1: suspicious light. But at the same time, they haven't said
42:55
Speaker 1: that they found new evidence that he was responsible for
42:59
Speaker 1: Cecilia and Renee's disappearances. And it makes me wonder theoretically,
43:03
Speaker 1: if he was having an affair and he was too
43:05
Speaker 1: embarrassed to admit it, and maybe had his suspicions that
43:08
Speaker 1: this woman, this mistress of his, killed Cecilia and Renee,
43:11
Speaker 1: would he really remained silent about it? Because I can
43:14
Speaker 1: understand wanting to cover yourself and not betray yourself in
43:17
Speaker 1: a bad light. But if you believe that a woman
43:19
Speaker 1: you were having an affair with murdered your wife, unborn child,
43:22
Speaker 1: and your stepson, would you really like stay silent about
43:26
Speaker 1: it the entire time and not give her to the authorities.
43:28
Speaker 1: I mean, as long as he did not have any
43:30
Speaker 1: personal involvement of what happened. I can't imagine him staying silent.
43:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think so. I think what's the case
43:38
Speaker 2: that this makes me think of? The lady's name was Stephanie,
43:42
Speaker 2: and she was a cop and she dressed up as
43:44
Speaker 2: a clown and she was having an affair with a
43:48
Speaker 2: woman's husband and she ended up murdering the woman. But
43:51
Speaker 2: they quickly found out that it was her. So in
43:55
Speaker 2: this case, I just don't see Alfredo not saying something
43:59
Speaker 2: at it seems like an affair. I get like it.
44:05
Speaker 2: Maybe Alfredo was the floundering type and it does cast suspicion,
44:10
Speaker 2: but we know that he couldn't have physically done it.
44:13
Speaker 2: So are we to believe that this woman did take
44:15
Speaker 2: it upon herself and did this and then Alfredo is
44:21
Speaker 2: going to say nothing? Did they plan this together? I'm
44:24
Speaker 2: not sure. And of course, when you find out that
44:27
Speaker 2: there's an affair, you're going to then start looking at
44:30
Speaker 2: the person, Like with Scott Peterson. In that case, he
44:33
Speaker 2: was guilty and there was a lot of evidence to
44:36
Speaker 2: prove that, but in this case there seems to be
44:39
Speaker 2: zero evidence. It's just a side eye because he was
44:43
Speaker 2: having an affair, and maybe he didn't give off the
44:46
Speaker 2: right reactions initially, but if he didn't have the opportunity
44:50
Speaker 2: is that he was at work and we know that
44:52
Speaker 2: Renee was playing outside at five pm. He could not
44:54
Speaker 2: have physically done it.
44:57
Speaker 1: That's the thing, is that he could have lied about
44:59
Speaker 1: having an affair, and even if he was completely innocent
45:01
Speaker 1: of in the involvement, that's automatically going to look suspicious
45:04
Speaker 1: if you're not being forthcoming from law enforcement and lying
45:06
Speaker 1: about certain aspects of your personal life. And interestingly enough,
45:10
Speaker 1: I've seen the same comment made from multiple sources at
45:14
Speaker 1: the Unsolved Mysteries website and also on Reddit, I've seen
45:18
Speaker 1: what I'm presuming is the same person make allegations against Alfredo,
45:21
Speaker 1: saying that he was having an affair with two different
45:24
Speaker 1: women at the time Cecilia went missing, and specifically wrote
45:27
Speaker 1: that he didn't like the way Cecilia's body looked when
45:30
Speaker 1: she was pregnant, and because they were not having sex
45:33
Speaker 1: due to complications with their pregnancy, Alfredo was pretty much
45:36
Speaker 1: going around and sleeping with a bunch of other women,
45:38
Speaker 1: which obviously is terrible behavior, but it doesn't necessarily prove
45:43
Speaker 1: that he killed them, So and that's the thing is
45:46
Speaker 1: also I've heard, uncorroborated sources that Alfredo eventually got remarried
45:51
Speaker 1: and had a child with another woman, But I don't
45:53
Speaker 1: know if it was any of these women he was
45:55
Speaker 1: having an affair with. And it would seem pretty crazy
45:58
Speaker 1: to me that if the woman that he got married
46:00
Speaker 1: was the same person who murdered Cecilian Renee, that he
46:03
Speaker 1: would want to spend the rest of his life with
46:05
Speaker 1: someone like that, because obviously that's someone who's very, very dangerous,
46:09
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you would want to go
46:10
Speaker 1: through with it, even if you wanted to cover up
46:12
Speaker 1: your own indiscretions. So it might be a thing where
46:16
Speaker 1: like he legitimately had nothing to do with it, but
46:18
Speaker 1: because he hasn't been his forthcoming, law enforcement still considers
46:22
Speaker 1: him to be a person of interest.
46:23
Speaker 2: And again I'll go back to the fact that just
46:26
Speaker 2: because somebody is acting suspiciously or like they're hiding something,
46:30
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that they're a murderer. There's plenty of
46:33
Speaker 2: things like an affair that somebody might want to hold
46:36
Speaker 2: back on details of because if you share that with
46:39
Speaker 2: law enforcement, you're automatically going to look suspicious. So people
46:43
Speaker 2: will hold back the worst parts of themselves. We are
46:45
Speaker 2: all guilty of it, and it's a whole different thing
46:49
Speaker 2: when you have law enforcement looking at you and they're
46:52
Speaker 2: asking you about the disappearance of your wife and your
46:55
Speaker 2: stepchild and your unborn child. It's pretty complex. I don't
46:59
Speaker 2: know what I'll Freeo's relationship with law enforcement was and
47:04
Speaker 2: the lengths that he would go to show that he
47:07
Speaker 2: was innocent. So, yes, all of these things are on
47:10
Speaker 2: the table because we don't know what happened here. But
47:13
Speaker 2: I really don't think that just because he had an affair,
47:16
Speaker 2: although it's garbage behavior, it doesn't make him a murderer.
47:20
Speaker 1: That's what I'm thinking as well. And I really wish
47:22
Speaker 1: I had more information about Alfredo's current whereabouts, like I've
47:25
Speaker 1: done internet searches and I just don't have any information.
47:28
Speaker 1: I can't confirm officially if he got remarried and had
47:32
Speaker 1: another child, And I have no idea how law enforcement
47:35
Speaker 1: views him today if they still consider him to be
47:37
Speaker 1: a person of interest. And that's pretty much what's frustrating
47:40
Speaker 1: about this whole case is even though it did get
47:42
Speaker 1: featured on Unsolved Mysteries and got national television exposure, which
47:46
Speaker 1: is good. I have not seen any more media coverage
47:49
Speaker 1: at all in the past thirty years. I have not
47:51
Speaker 1: seen any comment from law enforcement other than that bulletin
47:54
Speaker 1: they posted in twenty eleven. So I really don't know
47:57
Speaker 1: where this stands right now, and I just think there
47:59
Speaker 1: should be more urgency, not only because a pregnant woman
48:02
Speaker 1: went missing, but a six year old boy who went
48:05
Speaker 1: missing alongside of her and likely became the victim of
48:08
Speaker 1: foul place. So I don't know if law enforcement is
48:10
Speaker 1: just at a dead end, or if they have their
48:13
Speaker 1: own ideas about what happened but just lack the evidence
48:15
Speaker 1: to make an arrest. But it just I hate in
48:18
Speaker 1: cases like this where it's got so many intriguing details
48:21
Speaker 1: and you have two vulnerable victims, but you just don't
48:24
Speaker 1: know if law enforcement is actively doing anything.
48:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's incredibly frustrating because we know that because of
48:34
Speaker 2: Cecilia being from Al Salvador, it might influence the way
48:38
Speaker 2: that law enforcement investigates the case if it was an
48:41
Speaker 2: American citizen, if it was a white woman with blonde
48:44
Speaker 2: hair and blue eyes, or if it was like a
48:46
Speaker 2: lazy Peterson. We know that the type of attention that
48:50
Speaker 2: those type of quote unquote valuable victims get is considerably
48:54
Speaker 2: higher than persons of color or minorities. It's really heartbreaking
48:58
Speaker 2: that we don't know any more details about what happened.
49:01
Speaker 2: Like we have a six year old boy missing, We've
49:03
Speaker 2: got an unborn baby, and we have Cecilia, and there's
49:08
Speaker 2: a lot of broken hearts left in the aftermath. Here
49:11
Speaker 2: we have Renee's father who goes on to live with Alfredo,
49:18
Speaker 2: which I think is so interesting and it's just another
49:22
Speaker 2: thing to file away in the Alfredo is potentially innocent
49:25
Speaker 2: category because I just don't see any motivation in literally
49:29
Speaker 2: living with the father of your step son.
49:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like this is one of those cases when I
49:36
Speaker 1: originally saw it on Unsolved Mysteries where I thought the
49:39
Speaker 1: husband did do it, because I've seen so many other
49:41
Speaker 1: cases just like this where the husband will appear on camera,
49:44
Speaker 1: give a very terrible interview and make themselves look suspicious.
49:47
Speaker 1: But Alfredo just I got a different vibe from him,
49:50
Speaker 1: Like I am willing to acknowledge that he may have
49:52
Speaker 1: done some bad things like have an affair, and that
49:54
Speaker 1: maybe he knows a bit more than he's letting on.
49:57
Speaker 1: But like we talked about. He does seem to have
49:59
Speaker 1: an air tight alibi placing him at work at the
50:02
Speaker 1: time Cecilian Renee went missing. So I just think that
50:05
Speaker 1: maybe law enforcement got tunnel vision that maybe if he
50:08
Speaker 1: wasn't he was acting unemotional or he was lying about
50:11
Speaker 1: certain things that caused him to get a bulls eye
50:13
Speaker 1: on him. But it seems very likely that the crime
50:15
Speaker 1: itself was committed by a woman. And I don't know
50:18
Speaker 1: if maybe it was someone who was having an affair
50:20
Speaker 1: with Alfredo and wanted to Sicilian Reray out out of
50:24
Speaker 1: the way, or maybe just someone their motive was a
50:26
Speaker 1: fetal abduction. I don't know if they were able to
50:28
Speaker 1: check phone records and find out like who called Cecilia
50:32
Speaker 1: like to talk about this baby shower and whatnot and
50:35
Speaker 1: arranging to have baby furniture. Maybe they just called from
50:38
Speaker 1: a payphone or something like that. But I do think
50:40
Speaker 1: that if they can identify this woman, then they can
50:42
Speaker 1: maybe solve the case.
50:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, I think there's two possibilities here where
50:49
Speaker 2: in my mind, like, of course there's many many possibilities,
50:52
Speaker 2: but it's either a woman who I think this is
50:55
Speaker 2: less probable that it's a woman who's having an affair
50:58
Speaker 2: with Alfredo and she wants him herself, and so she
51:02
Speaker 2: decides to abduct Cecilia and Renee, and Renee ends up
51:05
Speaker 2: being collateral damage, as does the unborn fetus. Then there's
51:09
Speaker 2: a possibility that this was a futal abduction, and that
51:13
Speaker 2: was the primary motivation. I lean a lot more heavily
51:16
Speaker 2: towards the fact that it was a fetal abduction, just
51:19
Speaker 2: given how heavily pregnant Cecilia was at the time that
51:22
Speaker 2: this happened.
51:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense to me. I definitely believe that
51:26
Speaker 1: she was lured to a meeting under the pretense of
51:29
Speaker 1: getting this furniture, and that whoever did this probably did
51:32
Speaker 1: not expect to Renee to be there, but then felt
51:35
Speaker 1: that they had to kill him too, just because he
51:37
Speaker 1: was a witness. And sounds like a pretty horrific crime.
51:40
Speaker 1: And it is sad that they're both missing over thirty
51:42
Speaker 1: years later and we're still no closer to solving this
51:45
Speaker 1: than we were back in nineteen ninety four. So any
51:48
Speaker 1: more thoughts on the disappearances of Cecilia Newball and Renee Perez.
51:53
Speaker 2: No, I think that sums it up. Thank you so
51:56
Speaker 2: much for sharing the details of this case with me.
51:59
Speaker 1: Yes, it's step only one of those cases that definitely
52:01
Speaker 1: needs a lot more attention and hopefully one of these
52:04
Speaker 1: days we finally get conclusive answers. So that about brings
52:07
Speaker 1: an end to this month's bonus. Patreon Miniso, thank you
52:11
Speaker 1: so much for your continued support and we will be
52:13
Speaker 1: back next month with another bonus on minnesot So until then,
52:17
Speaker 1: everyone have yourselves a great month.