Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 20, Season 2: Monthly Q&A – Questions from Our Private Facebook Community

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Episode 20, Season 2: Monthly Q&A – Questions from Our Private Facebook Community · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

0:11
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. I am your co
0:13
Speaker 1: host Raina, but you're here with our host, doctor Sarah Hnsley,
0:17
Speaker 1: the owner, founder, and CEO of the love Doc relationship
0:20
Speaker 1: coaching services. You can find her at the lovedoc dot
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Speaker 1: com or on any social media handle at doctor Sarah Hensley.
0:28
Speaker 2: Hey, Hi, how are you. I'm good.
0:31
Speaker 1: I'm much better this year.
0:34
Speaker 2: It's been a tough it's been a tough little couple
0:37
Speaker 2: of days. We offended a lot of people with the
0:41
Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk episode. That was not our intention, but you
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Speaker 2: know what it is, what it is, we spoke our truth.
0:47
Speaker 2: We believe in human decency. We believe that people have
0:50
Speaker 2: the right to speak what they want to speak, and
0:52
Speaker 2: that is okay. Our people will find us and everybody,
0:55
Speaker 2: regardless of your opinion, is welcome here. But we're also
0:59
Speaker 2: not going to change our opinion now.
1:01
Speaker 1: And for the record, we believed in human decency long
1:03
Speaker 1: before this ever happened to Charlie Kirk.
1:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course.
1:06
Speaker 1: I mean, we know there are terrible things that go
1:08
Speaker 1: on in the world, and we pray for those just
1:10
Speaker 1: prompted us.
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Speaker 2: That's it.
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Speaker 1: You know, certain things that happen in the world prompt
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Speaker 1: you to speak out.
1:15
Speaker 2: And the fact that this mother became a widow and
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Speaker 2: is raising two grieving children and I have personally had
1:26
Speaker 2: to raise two children that lost their father. So yeah,
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Speaker 2: it was a little bit personal.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it was really beautiful after the
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Speaker 1: memorial is I saw both sides really come together and
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Speaker 1: talk on Erica's not speech, her eulogy, I'm sorry, her
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Speaker 1: eulogy that she gave at the memorial that was so
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Speaker 1: profound and so beautiful because she openly talked about forgiveness. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: that's what we need.
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Speaker 2: We've had We've had a podcast episode believe forgiveness and
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Speaker 2: how important it is. It's just one of those things
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Speaker 2: where if you can't forgive, then you can't fathom how
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Speaker 2: Christ died for our sins and how he forgave us.
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Speaker 2: Forgiveness is one of the biggest blocks I think that
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Speaker 2: people have, especially in their relationships, when there's resentment. There's
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Speaker 2: so much resentment and they're like, how do I forgive?
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Speaker 2: It's like, well, it's a choice. It is. It's a
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Speaker 2: hard one. Sometimes it's a super hard one, but it's
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Speaker 2: not a finite choice, like it's a daily choice. It's
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Speaker 2: not just like, oh I did it one time, those
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Speaker 2: bitter thoughts, that anger, it's gonna come up again, and
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Speaker 2: so you have to fight it every time. It's not
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Speaker 2: just this one time like it's done. That is too
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Speaker 2: hard for most humans.
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Speaker 1: I say forgiveness is more for even you than anyone else.
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Speaker 1: It is for you because sometimes you have to forgive
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Speaker 1: people that were never sorry.
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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and that's even more. I mean, I'm not
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Speaker 2: gonna lie. My inbox was full of some really awful
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Speaker 2: threats after that, it was it was brutal. And of
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Speaker 2: course Rena manages my Instagram and very disregularly. She was
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Speaker 2: extremely dysregulated with some.
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Speaker 1: Of ill I was physically ill.
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Speaker 2: With some of the horrendous, horrendous almost like sickening, sickening
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Speaker 2: comments and it's okay, that is okay. And a lot
3:25
Speaker 2: of people went in gave us one star reviews on
3:27
Speaker 2: our podcast just because we talked about it. So if
3:29
Speaker 2: you actually like our podcast and we have helped you,
3:31
Speaker 2: it would do us an amazing favor if you could
3:35
Speaker 2: just go in and give us a five star review,
3:38
Speaker 2: if we have really helped you on whatever platform you
3:41
Speaker 2: listen to us, that would honestly be the greatest gift
3:44
Speaker 2: you could give to us right now to combat some
3:47
Speaker 2: of that hate. And we are just here at the LOVEDOC.
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Speaker 2: We've just decided we are going to stay true to
3:52
Speaker 2: our values and true to our beliefs, and ourselves, our
3:56
Speaker 2: authentic selves, and our people will find us and we
3:59
Speaker 2: are happy you about that. So AnyWho, today we're just
4:03
Speaker 2: going to do some Q and A. We're going to
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Speaker 2: pull some questions from your private I have a private
4:09
Speaker 2: Facebook community. It's free to join. I moderate it. I
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Speaker 2: post things that you will not find on any of
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Speaker 2: my other platforms. I answer questions, I reply to comments.
4:20
Speaker 2: I do the best I can. I had somebody also
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Speaker 2: that was really nasty on Instagram say you don't even
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Speaker 2: answer all the questions in your Facebook group. Well I get, like,
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Speaker 2: that's thirty a day, Like I'm only one person, like
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Speaker 2: my best I answer as many as I can.
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Speaker 1: But no, you can't win because then if you have
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Speaker 1: like AI generated responses, then people get mad.
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Speaker 2: I'm not about doing that.
4:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, people to do that too.
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Speaker 2: I'm not going to use AI to answer people. They
4:48
Speaker 2: can get AI on their own phone. I'm here to
4:51
Speaker 2: be an authentic human. So can we really do the
4:53
Speaker 2: best for you to be in that community.
4:54
Speaker 1: We're a small team. We do the best we can, goes.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you want to join that, you can
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Speaker 2: just search on Facebook the Love Doc Clients and community
5:03
Speaker 2: and we will let you into the group and you
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Speaker 2: just you have to follow group rules yet to be
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Speaker 2: kind and respectful to other spam. No spam, no hate.
5:11
Speaker 1: You trying to sell products on there?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, none of that. But we are going to
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Speaker 2: pull some questions from there that I haven't been able
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Speaker 2: to answer.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, if it's on the spot, she's on the spot.
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Speaker 2: Not scripted. I have no idea what these questions aren't.
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Speaker 1: I'm going to think on her feet, which I think
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Speaker 1: proves her credibility and interesting enough because so many of
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Speaker 1: these questions are about the day. And we're going to
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Speaker 1: start doing this every month, guys, where we just do
5:35
Speaker 1: one episode that's just strictly Q and A because I
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Speaker 1: think there's a lot of value in it and a
5:39
Speaker 1: lot of insight. But this one is about an AP,
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Speaker 1: an anxious preoccupied.
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Speaker 2: Everybody ever talks about the AP. Yeah, it's all about
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Speaker 2: the FA and the DA and I you know, I
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Speaker 2: love APA.
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Speaker 1: These are so precious, actually the most precious, you know,
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Speaker 1: I mean all attachment styles are.
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Speaker 2: They can wonderful, warm, kind, loving.
6:01
Speaker 1: People of superpowers.
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Speaker 2: Everybody has superpowers. I think we had a comment on
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Speaker 2: the pod of like we're anti DA. Uh, absolutely not.
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Speaker 2: I dedicate my life to helping Das and people in
6:11
Speaker 2: relationship with DAS, and I wouldn't do that if I
6:15
Speaker 2: thought they were villains. I don't think they're villains. And actually,
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Speaker 2: the next episode is going to be on the pain
6:19
Speaker 2: of the DA, So stay tuned to the week after
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Speaker 2: this because we're gonna be talking about the DA's pain
6:24
Speaker 2: because they do have a lot of pain. People don't
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Speaker 2: realize it because they don't express it.
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Speaker 1: They don't realize it.
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Speaker 2: No, they don't even often realize it because they're suppressing
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Speaker 2: it before they can really be in touch with it.
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Speaker 2: They're associating from it. So any who, any who?
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Speaker 1: Okay, that's the question question. So I'm an anxious, preoccupied
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Speaker 1: working towards my secure attachment. My last relationship was with
6:44
Speaker 1: a dismissive avoidant, and he triggered me so much as
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Speaker 1: I did with him. We both left the relationship badly shaken,
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Speaker 1: and we lost ourselves. After that, I started therapy and
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Speaker 1: I'm actively working towards my secure attachment slowly. It's a
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Speaker 1: tough process, but I know I got this. But now
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Speaker 1: I have a new issue. I've been dating another anxious,
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Speaker 1: preoccupied but he's proving to be a nightmare. I've tried
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Speaker 1: setting boundaries, clear, firm, repeated boundaries, but they get ignored, crossed,
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Speaker 1: or twisted. Every boundary I put up is interrupted or
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Speaker 1: interpreted I'm sorry, as rejection, as proof that I don't care,
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Speaker 1: and it turns into guilt trips, panic, and emotional explosions
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Speaker 1: that I have to absorb. Even knowing what healthy attachment
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Speaker 1: looks like doesn't protect me. Every unanswered message feels catastrophic.
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Speaker 1: Every minor disagreement escalates into a storm. No matter how
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Speaker 1: I respond, I find myself slipping back into the anxious
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Speaker 1: patterns I've been working so hard to leave behind. It's exhausting.
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Speaker 1: I want to care for him, but I also have
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Speaker 1: to protect myself. Boundaries aren't respected, They're weaponized against me.
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Speaker 1: Months of therapy and progress feel like they could be
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Speaker 1: erased overnight. The only positive part about it all is
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Speaker 1: that they're putting is that they're putting a mirror in
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Speaker 1: front of me. I recognize my old self. Oh this,
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Speaker 1: this is so beautiful. I recognize my old self and
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Speaker 1: this behavior, and I can fully understand how it was
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Speaker 1: to date me. I know walking away is the right
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Speaker 1: choice at this point, but the guilt, the empathy, the
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Speaker 1: what if I'm being too harsh keeps me trapped and overthinking,
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Speaker 1: oh girl you. I don't know if this is a
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Speaker 1: girl or not, but that sounds like FA anyway. Has
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Speaker 1: anyone out here dealt with this dating another anxious preoccupied
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Speaker 1: while trying to maintain boundaries and actually made it work?
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Speaker 1: Or is walking away the only way to survive without
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Speaker 1: losing myself?
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Speaker 2: Yeah? This is really interesting. And usually we don't see
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Speaker 2: two aps together or two das together because they kind
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Speaker 2: of repel each other. But it makes sense if you
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Speaker 2: are moving towards your security but not quite there yet,
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Speaker 2: how you may have ended up with an AP that
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Speaker 2: is really AP behavior. I would say the exploding is
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Speaker 2: a little bit like That makes me think FA a
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Speaker 2: little bit maybe because usually aps aren't as explosive, But man,
9:00
Speaker 2: they push boundaries, And what I will say to that is,
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Speaker 2: it doesn't sound like your boundaries are being held so
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Speaker 2: a boundary it's like a fence that you can't get through.
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Speaker 2: It's not a pretend line in the sand that you
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Speaker 2: could jump over. Boundaries are not held with words. Boundaries
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Speaker 2: are held with your actions, the action of actually removing
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Speaker 2: your access, whether that's from a situation, whether that's temporarily
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Speaker 2: from the relationship, or whether that is permanently. So level
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Speaker 2: one is removing it from the situation. Level two is
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Speaker 2: removing yourself temporarily from the relationship to take some space
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Speaker 2: and to meet your own needs and to pour into
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Speaker 2: regulating your own nervous system. But you don't just say it.
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Speaker 2: You do it, which means you don't answer the seventy
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Speaker 2: five text messages. You say you know you can repeat
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Speaker 2: it when you're ready too, and then you state your
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Speaker 2: rules of re engagement. So whenever you set a boundary,
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Speaker 2: there has to be rules of re engagement. I will
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Speaker 2: give view my access back and I will step right
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Speaker 2: back into the relationship as we were or the situation
10:06
Speaker 2: as we were when you are ready too. And then
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Speaker 2: you state what you need to see from the other
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Speaker 2: person very clearly, very explicitly, and then when you set
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Speaker 2: the boundary, you give them that information and you also
10:19
Speaker 2: let them know what it looks like for you to
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Speaker 2: be in the boundary space. So does that look like
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Speaker 2: you're going to be quiet for a few hours? Does
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Speaker 2: it look like at level two boundary you are going
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Speaker 2: to move out of the bedroom and you are going
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Speaker 2: to stop meeting their needs because you have to pour
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Speaker 2: all that energy into meeting your own needs so your
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Speaker 2: nervous system does not collapse. What does it look like?
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Speaker 2: You have to communicate that. You can't just say I'm
10:42
Speaker 2: setting a boundary, don't do this. Your boundary is not
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Speaker 2: in words. It is in the removal of access to
10:49
Speaker 2: you until they meet your rules of re engagement. And
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Speaker 2: that is not an ultimatum. And let me describe the
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Speaker 2: difference here. A lot of people say, well, that's an
10:57
Speaker 2: ultimatum or that's being avoidant. No, it's not. Ultimatums are
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Speaker 2: a fake threat that someone is using to try to
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Speaker 2: get you to change, and they have no plans of
11:07
Speaker 2: really stepping away. They're just trying to threaten you with
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Speaker 2: ending the relationship, to get you and to force you
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Speaker 2: to change. A boundary says I know I can't change you.
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Speaker 2: It says I have no desire to change you. It
11:20
Speaker 2: says I have the desire for you to realize that
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Speaker 2: this is what I need and hopefully step up to
11:25
Speaker 2: the plate. But I totally realize that might not happen.
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Speaker 2: But I'm willing to preserve myself, my nervous system and
11:32
Speaker 2: taking the time to meet my own needs while you
11:34
Speaker 2: figure out if that's what you're going to do, And
11:37
Speaker 2: so you remove yourself, but you also tell them but
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Speaker 2: I will return if X, Y, and Z happens, and
11:44
Speaker 2: so they have the option. Then avoidance is just like
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Speaker 2: going dark or saying I'm done or I can't talk
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Speaker 2: to you right now, and giving no rules of re engagement,
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Speaker 2: no time when you're going to return, leaving the other
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Speaker 2: person with no ability to know what's going on.
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Speaker 1: I think a key point that she he or she
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Speaker 1: makes here is, you know, the weaponizing the boundaries against them.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, people say, oh, you're being unfair or being avoidant. Well,
12:09
Speaker 2: if that's when you have to stand firm, that's when
12:11
Speaker 2: you say, this is not avoidance. I'm telling you clearly
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Speaker 2: what I need and it looks like this, and you
12:17
Speaker 2: have to get really detailed as to what it looks
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Speaker 2: like so that they can meet the target. You can't
12:23
Speaker 2: just tell someone I need more affection.
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Speaker 1: Right or I need you to back away right now?
12:28
Speaker 2: What does that look like? Do you need a couple
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Speaker 2: of days, do you need a few hours? Do you
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Speaker 2: need no contact? Do you want check ins?
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Speaker 1: What I could see where that would be hard if
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Speaker 1: you're like just stepping into security, because it's kind of
12:41
Speaker 1: hard to find the language at times to really be
12:46
Speaker 1: able to express like, okay, I need space. What does
12:50
Speaker 1: that really look like? Does that look like two hours?
12:52
Speaker 1: Does that look like a night away where you just
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Speaker 1: kind of leave me alone and in really self exploring that?
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Speaker 2: Right? Absolutely? And I do see some of that AP
13:01
Speaker 2: coming out because aps are notorious for dropping their boundaries.
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Speaker 2: So the guilt that you're feeling is that AP anxiety
13:09
Speaker 2: of but maybe I should drop my boundaries because that's
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Speaker 2: what I've always done. That's not what you need to
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Speaker 2: do anymore. You need to stand firm and you need
13:18
Speaker 2: to say it is what it is. And absolutely it
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Speaker 2: sounds like this is really unhealthy and dysfunctional and it's
13:23
Speaker 2: time to walk away, which is level three boundary. Level
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Speaker 2: three boundary is exiting the relationship.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we hope that helped. Okay, moving on.
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Speaker 2: What if you could ask your da X three yes
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Speaker 2: or no questions?
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Speaker 1: What would you ask? That's hard.
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Speaker 2: I don't know what. Okay, da X, I have a DAX.
13:50
Speaker 2: If you could ask that DX, I don't even want.
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Speaker 2: I don't care to tell every time, just hypothetically, Oh gosh,
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Speaker 2: what would I ask?
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Speaker 1: I mean, I know one the first one. Did you
14:02
Speaker 1: ever really care? Did you really ever care?
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Speaker 2: Here's the thing. I know that das care.
14:07
Speaker 1: Yeah.
14:07
Speaker 2: I talk to DA's every day and they I always
14:11
Speaker 2: ask a DA in front of their partner when we
14:13
Speaker 2: do couples work, do you love your partner? They always
14:17
Speaker 2: say yes, Yeah. I think it's one time in the
14:20
Speaker 2: history of our practice where we had someone say no
14:23
Speaker 2: and they were already way deactivated. It was way too
14:25
Speaker 2: late for this couple, like, way way way too late.
14:29
Speaker 2: But they're always like, of course I do. It's just
14:31
Speaker 2: that their blueprint of love doesn't look like most people's
14:36
Speaker 2: blueprint of love. They don't realize how distant they are.
14:41
Speaker 2: I would probably ask them that, do you realize how
14:44
Speaker 2: distant you are? And they would go no. They would
14:48
Speaker 2: be like, I don't. I'm just trying to be a
14:50
Speaker 2: good person, like I have a lot of work. I'm
14:52
Speaker 2: kind of busy. I have this I have that they
14:54
Speaker 2: have blinders on they do not see and I get
14:58
Speaker 2: that all the time. I got a TikTok comment yesterday
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Speaker 2: actually that was like, they know the difference between right
15:04
Speaker 2: and wrong, and they ghost people and they don't care.
15:08
Speaker 2: And I was like, listen, they don't see it. They
15:10
Speaker 2: don't see anything wrong with ghosting. Nothing to them, that
15:15
Speaker 2: is normal conflict resolution because they gohos see each other
15:20
Speaker 2: in their own house when they were growing up. If parents,
15:23
Speaker 2: you know, if there was a disruption, the parents split up,
15:26
Speaker 2: they just didn't talk and then they just acted like
15:28
Speaker 2: nothing happened. They probably think they're doing you a favor.
15:31
Speaker 2: They do. Here's the thing too, I was coaching a
15:34
Speaker 2: couple and the wife was having just such a hard
15:39
Speaker 2: time with a personal situation and she came home and
15:43
Speaker 2: she was kind of venting to her husband. And when
15:47
Speaker 2: I talk about cases, guys, you have to realize I
15:49
Speaker 2: will not talk about a case unless I've heard it
15:51
Speaker 2: at least the same story five, six, seven times, because
15:54
Speaker 2: I don't want anybody to ever feel singled out, like, oh,
15:56
Speaker 2: you're talking about my case, right, So I try to
16:00
Speaker 2: pull of common themes I've seen over and over and
16:02
Speaker 2: over again. Right, And of course I'll never release anybody's
16:05
Speaker 2: identifying information or give anything that could lead to identifying information,
16:08
Speaker 2: so let's just be clear about that. So this is
16:11
Speaker 2: something I see all the time. Wife was venting about
16:13
Speaker 2: something personal, personal struggle. DA literally said, oh, okay, I'm
16:22
Speaker 2: sorry about that and then left the room because if
16:26
Speaker 2: that had happened to him, and this was an explanation,
16:28
Speaker 2: and it's always the same explanation. Well, if that was me,
16:31
Speaker 2: I would want to be alone. Of course they would.
16:34
Speaker 2: That is their blueprint. They handle stress alone, their nervous
16:37
Speaker 2: systems feel safest alone. But that is not everyone. And
16:40
Speaker 2: it really was a light bulb for him to be like, oh,
16:43
Speaker 2: you wanted me there, because that to me, that would
16:47
Speaker 2: feel smothering, that would feel I would feel irritable. I
16:49
Speaker 2: wouldn't want you to be telling me what to do
16:52
Speaker 2: or trying to comfort me. I would just want you
16:54
Speaker 2: to get the heck away from me and just let
16:55
Speaker 2: me breathe and let me have the space that I need.
16:58
Speaker 2: And so when they give you space, a lot of
17:01
Speaker 2: times it's because they think that is what you would want,
17:04
Speaker 2: because that is what they would want.
17:07
Speaker 1: And isn't that those light bulb moments that I'm sure
17:10
Speaker 1: you see all the time, Just something really simple of
17:13
Speaker 1: like the DA recognizing that their partners need they're totally
17:17
Speaker 1: different than they're totally different. They're like, oh wait wow,
17:22
Speaker 1: and then it's just this all hal moment that's really simple.
17:26
Speaker 1: And I think that that is what's so profound about
17:29
Speaker 1: your practice and why people see so much change is
17:32
Speaker 1: because they're really simple concepts that just give you the
17:37
Speaker 1: all haul light bulb perspective shift moments.
17:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, I talk about it a lot, but I'll talk
17:43
Speaker 2: about it again. Everybody thinks their blueprint is what everybody
17:47
Speaker 2: else's blueprint is. So everybody thinks their partner wants to
17:51
Speaker 2: be loved in the way that they want to be loved.
17:54
Speaker 2: And it goes beyond love languages. Yeah, it goes to
17:56
Speaker 2: deepest needs and a lot of the attachment styles. Their
18:03
Speaker 2: deepest needs trigger each other and their deepest wounds trigger
18:06
Speaker 2: each other, so they're just bouncing triggers off each other
18:09
Speaker 2: the entire relationship. And then they're like, why can we
18:12
Speaker 2: not make this work? It's like, well, because you guys
18:14
Speaker 2: fundamentally need something very, very different. And when you understand
18:18
Speaker 2: that about your partner, that their deepest core needs are
18:22
Speaker 2: different than yours, then it's not offensive anymore. Right, DA,
18:28
Speaker 2: partner takes a little bit of space, You're like, Oh,
18:31
Speaker 2: that's the only way they know how to truly recalibrate
18:33
Speaker 2: their nervous system. And instead of villainizing them, how about
18:37
Speaker 2: we just understand it and then we work on regulating
18:40
Speaker 2: our own nervous systems so that when our partner does
18:43
Speaker 2: need a little bit of space, it doesn't feel like
18:45
Speaker 2: we're dying. But also, there is space that's too much space,
18:49
Speaker 2: and that is something that the DA has to know,
18:51
Speaker 2: and that is something that the anxious preoccupied has to
18:54
Speaker 2: sort of figure out where their boundaries are there as well.
18:57
Speaker 1: I want to go further about because she he or
19:01
Speaker 1: she again, I don't ever know.
19:02
Speaker 2: A lot of people posting on him, so we don't know. Yeah,
19:04
Speaker 2: so we want to call you by the right pronouns,
19:06
Speaker 2: but we don't know right they are.
19:08
Speaker 1: They go on to say, I find myself so they asked,
19:11
Speaker 1: you know, what were the three questions, the three yes
19:14
Speaker 1: or no questions that you'd ask They go on to say,
19:16
Speaker 1: I find myself needing some sort of closure from my
19:18
Speaker 1: X my Dax. We broke up three months ago without
19:21
Speaker 1: much closure or any fight really, and it's been really hard.
19:25
Speaker 1: I've mostly been able to self soothe and provide my
19:27
Speaker 1: own closure, but I find myself really struggling with a
19:29
Speaker 1: few areas of my healing and the opportunity for clarify.
19:33
Speaker 1: Clarification would be very helpful. Last night, I was brave
19:37
Speaker 1: and asked my DA if I could ask him a
19:38
Speaker 1: couple yes or no questions that he does not have
19:41
Speaker 1: to elaborate on. He said yes, but not tonight because
19:44
Speaker 1: he's going to bed. But tomorrow, which is now, which
19:47
Speaker 1: is today. Part of me knows he isn't going to
19:50
Speaker 1: text me about it, and I'll have to ask again.
19:53
Speaker 1: Don't do that stop So I may not even ask them,
19:57
Speaker 1: but I would love some suggestions on what kind of
20:00
Speaker 1: questions you might ask your da. They have to b
20:02
Speaker 1: yes or no. My one and only I can come
20:04
Speaker 1: up with now is was our love and relationship real
20:07
Speaker 1: to you?
20:08
Speaker 2: It is real to them, I promise it is. They
20:11
Speaker 2: just have such an ability to compartmentalize their feelings, and
20:17
Speaker 2: it's because their triggers suppress feelings, So you don't get
20:21
Speaker 2: to choose what you suppress. When you suppress and you dissociate,
20:24
Speaker 2: every emotion goes into that lock box, which includes your
20:29
Speaker 2: romantic feelings for your partner. So when they start to
20:34
Speaker 2: deactivate and they start to suppress, they're suppressing the pain
20:37
Speaker 2: of their wounds. But then their feelings for you get
20:40
Speaker 2: placed in that box too to be suppressed, which is
20:43
Speaker 2: why they can come across so callous and cold at
20:46
Speaker 2: the end of a relationship and you think, did you
20:48
Speaker 2: even care about me? Yes, they did. But for people
20:53
Speaker 2: that don't have great compartmentalization, I don't. I don't have
20:57
Speaker 2: great compartmentalization I have. I can do it a little
20:59
Speaker 2: bit for a little bit of time, and I really
21:03
Speaker 2: have to focus, and because compartmentalizing for short periods of
21:10
Speaker 2: time can be healthy, but doing it as a primary
21:14
Speaker 2: emotional coping strategy is not healthy. But the DA can
21:18
Speaker 2: do it for hours, days, weeks, months at a time.
21:22
Speaker 2: No other attachment style can do that.
21:23
Speaker 1: It's wild to me.
21:25
Speaker 2: So they're walking around incredibly numb. And I know this
21:30
Speaker 2: because in my practice, when we start going over emotional
21:34
Speaker 2: processing to completion through the body, which is the only
21:39
Speaker 2: way too, and it's it's one of a couple important tools,
21:44
Speaker 2: only a couple, but it's one important tool to learn
21:47
Speaker 2: how to be able to pair safety in your body
21:51
Speaker 2: with the experience of your emotion. When they start that work,
21:54
Speaker 2: they're like, I don't feel anything. I don't feel anything.
21:56
Speaker 2: I don't feel anything. I'm like, that doesn't surprise me.
21:59
Speaker 2: You're for you're frozen and you have to unthaw. So
22:02
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to do this work long enough to
22:03
Speaker 2: start to unthall, and then you're gonna hit anxiety or
22:05
Speaker 2: irritation in your body and it's gonna flip you out.
22:09
Speaker 2: And wouldn't you know every single time they come back
22:12
Speaker 2: to me and they're like, I was doing the exercise
22:14
Speaker 2: and I finally just felt this like rush of anger
22:17
Speaker 2: and irritation. That's the fight response. Or I did this
22:19
Speaker 2: and I just felt this rush of anxiety. That's the
22:22
Speaker 2: flight response. You're coming from shut down freeze, which is
22:26
Speaker 2: dorsal veigel to sympathetic activation, because that's one wrung down
22:31
Speaker 2: on the safety ladder, you know, from freeze, and then
22:35
Speaker 2: we got one more to go to get to true safety.
22:37
Speaker 2: So it doesn't surprise me when they're just like, how
22:41
Speaker 2: can you not feel anything? It's not that they never
22:44
Speaker 2: felt it, it's that they can't access it.
22:47
Speaker 1: Would would what's the advice that you would give this person?
22:52
Speaker 1: Should they even?
22:53
Speaker 2: No? Yeah, no, no, gotta let it go, because becoming
22:59
Speaker 2: securely attached means that you can be okay without closure
23:03
Speaker 2: because the relationship to yourself is so strong that you
23:07
Speaker 2: don't need that validation that it was real. Don't. If
23:11
Speaker 2: it was real for you, then it was real and
23:13
Speaker 2: that's all that matters, and that's all that matters. And
23:16
Speaker 2: then your focus should be how do I not attract
23:19
Speaker 2: somebody with this blueprint again and not villainizing the DA.
23:23
Speaker 2: I don't want you to attract an FA or an
23:25
Speaker 2: AP either or not that they don't deserve love, but
23:27
Speaker 2: just because when you're secure, you're going to be attracted
23:32
Speaker 2: to secure people. You are not going to be attracted
23:34
Speaker 2: to the red flags of those other attachment styles. And
23:37
Speaker 2: once you find that out, it's kind of ends up
23:39
Speaker 2: being a waste of your time. You might waste three
23:41
Speaker 2: months with somebody and then go, oh, there's their attachment,
23:44
Speaker 2: and then now I have to walk away. So better
23:47
Speaker 2: to just become secure and give off that secure energy.
23:52
Speaker 2: Because again I do believe in the law of attraction
23:54
Speaker 2: wholeheartedly as God's law of the universe. I think God
23:58
Speaker 2: made the law of attraction. And when you vibrate at
24:01
Speaker 2: that level of security and deep self worth and deep
24:05
Speaker 2: self love, you will be attracting people that also have
24:08
Speaker 2: deep self worth, deep self love and can give and
24:11
Speaker 2: receive love in a healthy way.
24:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, and find the closure in just that you you
24:15
Speaker 1: loved and loved, it wasn't right and you've let it go,
24:20
Speaker 1: and that, honestly, that should be closure enough because it
24:23
Speaker 1: will only set you up for something that's truly meant
24:26
Speaker 1: for you.
24:26
Speaker 2: Closure is you seeking their validation, which you don't need
24:31
Speaker 2: to seek. No, you don't need to know if even
24:35
Speaker 2: if it wasn't real for him, what changes for you? Right?
24:39
Speaker 2: Maybe more insight that Wow, I really chose an unhealed person.
24:43
Speaker 2: But your choice of partner is very very much associated
24:48
Speaker 2: with who you are, absolutely, and so the work is
24:53
Speaker 2: the same regardless if you get that closure, it's the
24:56
Speaker 2: same work.
24:56
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26:11
Speaker 1: Would it be common for a suspected dismissive avoidant to
26:15
Speaker 1: have a predetermined notion that every conversation is going to
26:20
Speaker 1: be an argument.
26:24
Speaker 2: I think every deep conversation or every conversation around the
26:28
Speaker 2: relationship is going to be an argument.
26:30
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, they do, I agree.
26:33
Speaker 2: Eventually, they hope. In the beginning of the relationship, they
26:37
Speaker 2: always think that this partner is different, and this one
26:41
Speaker 2: I won't have any conflict with, and this one isn't
26:43
Speaker 2: going to make me feel bad. But then they repeat
26:46
Speaker 2: all their da patterns, and then they're with somebody that's like, hey,
26:50
Speaker 2: that's not cool, or I need more time, or I
26:52
Speaker 2: need more attention or affection, and then they just are like, oh,
26:56
Speaker 2: here it goes again. You know, I'm with another dramatic
26:58
Speaker 2: person that just makes everything saying a conflict. Than every
27:01
Speaker 2: conversation they do expect it to be a conflict, and
27:04
Speaker 2: they get extremely dysregulated the moment that it starts. Who
27:08
Speaker 2: is more likely to do the old reverse discard, the
27:11
Speaker 2: if you're full avoidant or the dismissive avoidant. Oh yeah,
27:14
Speaker 2: the reverse discard where they get so bad they make
27:18
Speaker 2: you leave them. Mm hmmm, Oh yeah. That's a fearful
27:20
Speaker 2: avoidant trait. It's a fearful avoidant trait. They will they
27:28
Speaker 2: will blow it up. I don't know what, just how
27:32
Speaker 2: to say it. Oh my gosh, you tis ten yeah
27:39
Speaker 2: times ten. They'll blow it up right in your face.
27:42
Speaker 2: And then they will regret it. Yeah, yeah, they regret it.
27:46
Speaker 2: The reverse discard is in absolute f a trade. Yeah.
27:50
Speaker 2: They will show you their It is a very rebellious behavior.
27:53
Speaker 2: They will show you a side of them that they
27:56
Speaker 2: are deeply ashamed of but can't control in the moment
27:59
Speaker 2: they're reactivity. They will low blow you. Yess me, how
28:05
Speaker 2: I know. Oh but the reviews on the podcaster that
28:08
Speaker 2: were biased towards FAS and against DA's that was, well,
28:11
Speaker 2: it was one review, now, okay, and that's just not true.
28:15
Speaker 2: Because I was a hot, freaking mess. I would have
28:18
Speaker 2: I am so sorry to everybody who ever dated me
28:21
Speaker 2: before I earned my attachment security. Even if you were
28:24
Speaker 2: a crappy person with your own behavior, I was still,
28:27
Speaker 2: at the end of the day responsible for my behavior,
28:30
Speaker 2: and that was a lot of guilt and shame that
28:32
Speaker 2: I had to work through when my first husband passed away,
28:37
Speaker 2: because I know that even as bad as his behavior was,
28:42
Speaker 2: my behavior could get really bad too.
28:45
Speaker 1: Yeah.
28:46
Speaker 2: I would never have put up with me now looking
28:48
Speaker 2: at my behavior. Now, I've been like, no.
28:50
Speaker 1: I mean there's some behavior now that I still have
28:53
Speaker 1: some residual behavior and I'm able to catch it and
28:57
Speaker 1: still work on correcting it.
28:58
Speaker 2: And that sooner very very important. Becoming secure is a
29:01
Speaker 2: lot about catching and correcting. You see yourself going down
29:04
Speaker 2: that old path and then you have that that's where
29:07
Speaker 2: that metacognition comes in. That's where that awareness comes in.
29:10
Speaker 2: Of sort of like I always think of friends. Okay,
29:14
Speaker 2: we are such.
29:15
Speaker 1: A friend and everything is applicable to my friends.
29:18
Speaker 2: Rachel wants to go tell Ross that she's in love
29:20
Speaker 2: with them still, and then she says it, and then
29:23
Speaker 2: she bursts out laughing and she talks about the floating
29:25
Speaker 2: Rachel of like I was like watching myself saying it,
29:28
Speaker 2: And that's kind of what it's like to be secure.
29:30
Speaker 2: It's like almost like you float out of your body
29:32
Speaker 2: and you see the insecurity start to pop up, and
29:35
Speaker 2: then you're like, I, no, I am not that person. Yeah,
29:38
Speaker 2: let me back that up. Let me back that up
29:42
Speaker 2: and redo that, because that is not who I want
29:45
Speaker 2: to be anymore. Yeah, yeah, all right, more question. I know.
29:49
Speaker 1: Let's see, I keep thinking about something I've heard repeatedly
29:53
Speaker 1: about a key difference between fearful avoidance and dismissive of avoidance.
29:57
Speaker 1: It's that the fearful avoidant attachment is more like related
30:00
Speaker 1: to abuse, and the dismissive avoidance is more related to
30:03
Speaker 1: emotional neglect. I'm not one hundred percent certain if internal
30:07
Speaker 1: anxiousness I feel around fear of abandonment qualifies as actual
30:10
Speaker 1: anxious attachment, because I don't tend to act on it.
30:13
Speaker 1: For example, if I haven't heard from a partner for
30:16
Speaker 1: a typical period of time, I'd almost rather die than
30:20
Speaker 1: reach out first myself, and if I perceive rejection, I
30:24
Speaker 1: pull away usually subtly. However, I did begin my attachment
30:28
Speaker 1: healing journey focusing on my internal feelings of anxiety around
30:31
Speaker 1: abandonment rejection, and did a lot of work on that,
30:33
Speaker 1: because those types of feelings are very loud and impossible
30:37
Speaker 1: to ignore. For me, the feelings tied to my avoidant
30:40
Speaker 1: tendencies are a lot more stealthy and elusive, disguising themselves
30:45
Speaker 1: as logical concerns about a relationship slash partner, a sense
30:49
Speaker 1: of numbness or exhaustion, and thinking deeply about the relationship
30:53
Speaker 1: or partner in thoughts that it's hard earned wisdom after
30:55
Speaker 1: being hurt and past narcissistic relationships to engage in distancing,
31:00
Speaker 1: although mine are not usually blatantly obvious. I'm getting to
31:04
Speaker 1: the question. I think, Oh, this is long, let me
31:08
Speaker 1: just skip over. I'm confident in my ability to process
31:11
Speaker 1: and heal my trauma responses once I recognize them. But
31:14
Speaker 1: I'm left wondering. Can dismissive tendencies ever be tied to
31:18
Speaker 1: abuse versus simply one's feelings of being dismissed. Obviously the
31:22
Speaker 1: abuse didn't take feelings into account, but weirdly enough, my
31:25
Speaker 1: family was probably a bit more into feelings than most.
31:28
Speaker 1: Perhaps it's my own survival based instinctive suppression of my
31:31
Speaker 1: feelings more than my parents doing so, So that's the
31:35
Speaker 1: key here. And yes, I know the wondering is probably compartmentalization,
31:39
Speaker 1: which I do fall into at times. But I'm just
31:41
Speaker 1: curious to hear other people's thoughts and experiences around this.
31:44
Speaker 1: That was quite the explanation. Not even sure really where
31:47
Speaker 1: the question was. Okay, I think you heard all question.
31:50
Speaker 2: I heard a question in there about is it attachment anxiety?
31:54
Speaker 2: If I don't act on it. The answer is no.
31:58
Speaker 2: So attachment again functions at the level of behavior. So
32:02
Speaker 2: your behavior represents your attachment style. Makes sense, It represents
32:07
Speaker 2: your attachment style. Das get anxiety when they first when
32:11
Speaker 2: a conflict first starts. The majority of das I talk
32:14
Speaker 2: to say, I feel anxious. But it's what do you
32:17
Speaker 2: do with that anxiety? Does it make you activate, which
32:21
Speaker 2: is to seek connection to soothe it, or does it
32:24
Speaker 2: make you deactivate to soothe it? So in this case,
32:30
Speaker 2: there's deactivation to in not seeking a connection due to
32:37
Speaker 2: fear of rejection or anxiety around rejection. An AP would
32:42
Speaker 2: not do that. An AP would not be able to
32:46
Speaker 2: keep themselves from doing that.
32:49
Speaker 1: Reach out this person specifically, and I skipped over this
32:52
Speaker 1: part and it's pretty important, but they had severe early
32:57
Speaker 1: childhood abuse.
32:58
Speaker 2: Yes, so that really mean with FA attachment. So here's
33:02
Speaker 2: the thing about abuse and big T trauma as a child.
33:06
Speaker 2: It can make you either FA or DA. Ninety percent
33:09
Speaker 2: of the time those people are going to be fas
33:11
Speaker 2: about ten percent of the time, usually male. We see
33:16
Speaker 2: early and severe trauma with also very severe emotional neglect.
33:22
Speaker 2: So we see sexual abuse, physical abuse, complete abandonment of
33:30
Speaker 2: a parent, or death of a parent or witnessing a
33:32
Speaker 2: death or something that's pretty severe. But then what happened
33:37
Speaker 2: is there was no adult in their world that gave
33:40
Speaker 2: them any attunement around it. It wasn't for most of
33:43
Speaker 2: these folks. It was like the trauma happened and they
33:46
Speaker 2: never spoke of it again. It was like you weren't
33:49
Speaker 2: allowed to speak about it. And so then, of course
33:52
Speaker 2: that's hardcore suppression if I'm not even allowed to talk
33:55
Speaker 2: about it, whereas I think the FA route they are
34:00
Speaker 2: allowed to process a little bit of it. Of course
34:02
Speaker 2: it's not properly or completely processed, and so it coming
34:08
Speaker 2: out through reactivity of those emotions coming up into that
34:11
Speaker 2: sympathetic state versus going all the way up to dorsal
34:14
Speaker 2: vehicle shutdown is tent is what we see. And that
34:17
Speaker 2: is really a large difference between the fearful avoidant and
34:20
Speaker 2: the dismissive avoidant. Is that fearful avoidance often sort of
34:23
Speaker 2: oscillate between fight and flight a lot and maybe go
34:26
Speaker 2: up to dissociation a little bit, and then they jump
34:29
Speaker 2: back down. So they're sort of like it's throwing spaghetti
34:31
Speaker 2: at the wall, right, maybe I'll hold it in and
34:33
Speaker 2: see if they notice. If I'm upset but I can't
34:35
Speaker 2: take it anymore, then I let it all out. Then
34:37
Speaker 2: I get hopeless that I'm not understood, so I shut
34:40
Speaker 2: down and I freeze. Whereas the dismissive avoidant pathway is
34:45
Speaker 2: very common. It's usually either soft fight or fond to freeze.
34:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot more predictable.
34:54
Speaker 2: Right, it's a lot more predictable.
34:56
Speaker 1: This person specifically definitely sounds.
34:59
Speaker 2: Like definitely sounds FA. Of course without a true assessment,
35:02
Speaker 2: I couldn't tell for sure, but just based on that, yeah,
35:04
Speaker 2: it sounds very FA because it's actually in the name.
35:07
Speaker 2: I avoid because I'm afraid of rejection. The dismissive avoidant
35:12
Speaker 2: avoids because they feel icky, They feel overwhelmed, they feel
35:16
Speaker 2: exhausted by you. They feel like I just don't have
35:19
Speaker 2: the energy for you. That is what the DA feels.
35:23
Speaker 2: The FA feels, I'm terrified I'm not going to be understood,
35:26
Speaker 2: which is going to make me feel deeply rejected, because
35:28
Speaker 2: their biggest need is to be understood. Or you know,
35:31
Speaker 2: if they react poorly, even if it's not rejection, maybe
35:37
Speaker 2: they're afraid of upsetting their partner and their partner getting reactive.
35:41
Speaker 2: They just don't know what to do, and so they avoid,
35:45
Speaker 2: but then they'll be very anxious about it during that avoidance.
35:48
Speaker 2: A lot of times, if they're not going up into
35:50
Speaker 2: that dorsal vagel shutdown, they're staying in flight, and flight
35:54
Speaker 2: is I feel it all in my body. I feel
35:56
Speaker 2: all the anxiety in my body, but I'm not verbalizing
35:58
Speaker 2: it and I'm not activating and seeking connection.
36:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, well do you know four or five more?
36:06
Speaker 2: Okay?
36:07
Speaker 1: How in the world am I supposed to find love?
36:10
Speaker 1: I'm an autistic male, anxious attachment and possibly undiagnosed BPD.
36:15
Speaker 1: I just want someone to love me except me and
36:17
Speaker 1: be there and not leave me. I want a healthy, core,
36:21
Speaker 1: co created space with shared goals and dreams and healthy communication.
36:26
Speaker 1: Why are so many people broken and unavailable to be
36:29
Speaker 1: available for love with others? Why does it have to
36:32
Speaker 1: be a psychological war zone? This is sad.
36:35
Speaker 2: It is sad, but it also it tracks with the
36:39
Speaker 2: data that we talked about. Was it last episode or
36:41
Speaker 2: the episode before where we talked about attachment through the
36:44
Speaker 2: generations that the number of insecurely attached people is rising.
36:48
Speaker 1: I think that comes out next week. Actually, Okay, so
36:52
Speaker 1: or it would be when this one.
36:54
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I guess that it's hard to have our
36:58
Speaker 2: brain around people heard and what have they not?
37:02
Speaker 1: Last week's episode will be the Generation, the attachment of
37:05
Speaker 1: the generation.
37:06
Speaker 2: So you've heard that one if you follow hopefully, if
37:08
Speaker 2: you follow us, attachment insecurity is increasing, especially dismissive avoidance,
37:15
Speaker 2: and what I will say is some of that is
37:18
Speaker 2: generational trauma of the gen X parents and some of
37:24
Speaker 2: the baby boomer parents. Not to just blame it on
37:28
Speaker 2: an entire generation, but I think there were cultural norms
37:31
Speaker 2: and shifts that we talked about in that episode that
37:34
Speaker 2: led to that a lot, and most people who have
37:37
Speaker 2: attachment trauma are completely blind to it. You have to
37:41
Speaker 2: realize that most people feel extremely justified in how they
37:45
Speaker 2: behave in relationships because it's from their own internal working model,
37:49
Speaker 2: which to them makes sense. They're triggered by something, they
37:52
Speaker 2: feel justified. Their partner doesn't even understand how or why
37:55
Speaker 2: they triggered them, so they're like, why are you being
37:57
Speaker 2: this way? I don't understand it. So what I will
38:00
Speaker 2: say is you need to start teasing a part what
38:04
Speaker 2: is the ad, what is your attachment trauma? And what
38:10
Speaker 2: does a dual sort of treatment plan look like, what
38:13
Speaker 2: kind of skills do you need to learn to become
38:17
Speaker 2: attachment secure and to navigate some of your struggles with ASD.
38:21
Speaker 2: And even if those struggles with ASD are things that
38:24
Speaker 2: maybe therapy hasn't been able to help, how can you
38:27
Speaker 2: communicate about them in a way that is going to
38:32
Speaker 2: give your partner a realistic expectation of those quote unquote
38:38
Speaker 2: limitations which can be superpowers If we look at neurodivergency
38:42
Speaker 2: in a really positive way, a lot of those things
38:44
Speaker 2: are actually superpowers greed just being able to communicate those Hey, listen,
38:48
Speaker 2: this is my diagnosis. This is where I tend to struggle.
38:52
Speaker 2: I have gotten therapy or help around these things, but
38:56
Speaker 2: they still pop up. Here's how they pop up. And
39:00
Speaker 2: try to separate that from attachment. So get some good
39:04
Speaker 2: providers on board that can help you tease those things
39:07
Speaker 2: apart so that you can work on what is malleable,
39:10
Speaker 2: which is the attachment and then know if and work
39:13
Speaker 2: with a provider that is trained in treating ASD and
39:19
Speaker 2: know a sense of what are maybe potentially permanent limitation or.
39:25
Speaker 1: An autism is that what an autism spectrum disorder yeah,
39:29
Speaker 1: and then mean, cross intervention is always an option.
39:31
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I prefer a lot of clients of mine
39:34
Speaker 2: out for different things. And if there's BPD on board,
39:38
Speaker 2: you need a clinical psychologist that specializes in BPD. You
39:43
Speaker 2: might want to try DBT therapy for BPD.
39:46
Speaker 1: And tell our listeners what that is, because I just
39:48
Speaker 1: always play dumb because I'm like, what.
39:50
Speaker 2: Is that dialectical behavioral therapy. I'm not a clinician, so
39:53
Speaker 2: I don't want to go too much detail about that.
39:55
Speaker 2: I don't think that would be appropriate. But it is
39:57
Speaker 2: sort of the gold standard therapy for BPD. So that's
40:00
Speaker 2: out there and people can do their own research on it.
40:02
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So moving on. Hopefully that helped because
40:07
Speaker 1: that was that's a that's a tough place to be,
40:11
Speaker 1: you know, And don't give up Hope. Go listen to
40:13
Speaker 1: our episode of Hope because it's there are really wonderful
40:17
Speaker 1: people out there who are looking for love and and
40:20
Speaker 1: want to give so much love.
40:21
Speaker 2: Seven billion people in the world. I tell my clients
40:24
Speaker 2: all the time, there is somebody out there for you,
40:26
Speaker 2: and I see it all the time. I have singles
40:28
Speaker 2: that go through my program or that do one on
40:30
Speaker 2: ones with me. Then they meet somebody and it's like
40:33
Speaker 2: a secure relationship and they're thrilled. I see it all
40:36
Speaker 2: the time. I wouldn't be up here saying that it happened.
40:38
Speaker 2: If it didn't happen happened.
40:40
Speaker 1: I was us, we're living prove and I was like,
40:44
Speaker 1: I really tried when I was you know, I mean,
40:47
Speaker 1: I know I've said it before. I didn't get married
40:49
Speaker 1: guys until I was forty, and i'd kind of come
40:54
Speaker 1: to terms with the idea of, like, you know, if
40:56
Speaker 1: I don't get married, it's okay, it's not the worst
40:57
Speaker 1: thing that can happen. I have a child. I have
40:59
Speaker 1: a beautiful, wonderful, full, healthy child, and I just tried
41:02
Speaker 1: to stay out of like that cynicism that I think
41:05
Speaker 1: you can sometimes create, especially in today's dating world. It
41:08
Speaker 1: just is so wild out there. I can only imagine
41:11
Speaker 1: what it's like now. I mean, I'm six years removed
41:14
Speaker 1: from it, so I can't imagine when it's it's probably
41:16
Speaker 1: worse now, so I know it can be probably pretty disheartening,
41:19
Speaker 1: and if you've got those compounding variables on top of it,
41:22
Speaker 1: it would be even more disheartening.
41:24
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I would love for somebody from match dot com
41:28
Speaker 2: or somebody like that to reach out to me. Yeah,
41:30
Speaker 2: so I can tell you what you're doing wrong. Yeah,
41:33
Speaker 2: because aline dating space is it's broken in it's horrid,
41:37
Speaker 2: and the people creating these apps have no idea. It's
41:40
Speaker 2: like they don't know anything about relationship.
41:42
Speaker 1: Right well, and they're just creating a space for just
41:45
Speaker 1: more brokenness.
41:46
Speaker 2: More brokenness because it encourages brokenness.
41:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, it encourages ghosting, It encourages.
41:51
Speaker 2: Surface level conversations, hookups, all of these looks.
41:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, all the things that in the whole big realm
41:59
Speaker 1: of things. I mean, not that attraction isn't important and
42:03
Speaker 1: I'll move on after this. I mean, obviously initial attraction
42:06
Speaker 1: is really important.
42:06
Speaker 2: But attraction can grow. Absolutely, there's so much science behind
42:10
Speaker 2: the fact that attraction can grow.
42:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you get to know somebody for sure. Okay,
42:14
Speaker 1: moving on probably a silly question, I know, but here
42:17
Speaker 1: I am Anyway, can two people have a relationship if
42:19
Speaker 1: one secretly holds grudges the other person never knows what
42:22
Speaker 1: they have done to upset the other person because they
42:24
Speaker 1: don't tell them and they just hold it in, so
42:26
Speaker 1: there's no opportunity to apologize, explain or make things right.
42:29
Speaker 1: I'm feeling tremendous guilt for not knowing I hurt someone
42:32
Speaker 1: I love and built a family with over ten years
42:34
Speaker 1: and never said a word about it until he abruptly left.
42:37
Speaker 1: Now it's too late. He won't hear me out or
42:40
Speaker 1: let me show him how sorry I am that I
42:42
Speaker 1: hurt him. On his way out, he even said to me,
42:45
Speaker 1: I hold grudges, and I'm the kind of person that
42:47
Speaker 1: if you hurt me, I hurt you even more. I
42:50
Speaker 1: was in complete, utter shock and completely devastated. There was
42:53
Speaker 1: no opportunity to repair. Also, he comes across as the
42:56
Speaker 1: nicest guy. Everyone loves him. I think that's why I'm
42:59
Speaker 1: having a hard time my head around this.
43:02
Speaker 2: That is super dysfunctional behavior on hay very and that
43:06
Speaker 2: is not something over you could It's not okay, and
43:10
Speaker 2: it's not something that you could change, because how could
43:12
Speaker 2: you if you didn't know. No, a healthy relationship cannot
43:17
Speaker 2: work when one partner is silently building up resentment. I
43:20
Speaker 2: see it every single day.
43:21
Speaker 1: Not talking about it and.
43:23
Speaker 2: Not talking about it.
43:24
Speaker 1: It's not how intimacy works.
43:26
Speaker 2: Got and so their nervous system this whole time is
43:29
Speaker 2: just growing more and more and more distant and deactivated.
43:34
Speaker 2: That's why they got to the point of just abruptly leaving,
43:36
Speaker 2: is because they were slowly deactivating and shutting down over time.
43:42
Speaker 2: That is the epitome of dysfunction. And I'm so deeply sorry.
43:47
Speaker 2: Of course you would be shocked, and of course you
43:50
Speaker 2: would feel betrayed, but I would not chase after and
43:53
Speaker 2: try to explain you already tried, and chances are it
43:57
Speaker 2: would just happen again. You would do something not knowing
44:00
Speaker 2: that it was something that hurt them, and that is
44:02
Speaker 2: on their own fear of vulnerability and conflict. So I'm
44:07
Speaker 2: sorry that happened. That's so deeply unfair and deeply dysfunction.
44:10
Speaker 1: Let us validate you right here and right now, absolutely
44:12
Speaker 1: like that under no circumstances is okay. And if you guys,
44:18
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't say that you were married, but
44:20
Speaker 1: it says that you spent ten years together. Ten years.
44:25
Speaker 1: He owed you an explanation, he owed you communication.
44:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean, I know we just said you
44:34
Speaker 2: don't need closure, and ultimately you're not going to get it,
44:39
Speaker 2: and so I would love for you to get to
44:42
Speaker 2: a place where you don't need it. And it's still
44:45
Speaker 2: going to hurt, and it would still be very normal
44:47
Speaker 2: to feel like this was so abrupt. Yes, I need closure.
44:51
Speaker 2: When our relationship has been toxic and there's been tons
44:55
Speaker 2: of problems and then we have somebody that leaves, there's
44:59
Speaker 2: a lot less need for closure. You know why it ended.
45:03
Speaker 2: It was toxic, it was obvious, but to be blind sided,
45:07
Speaker 2: of course, I think anybody would want some closure, but
45:10
Speaker 2: you're not gonna get it. So you're just going to
45:12
Speaker 2: have to find it for yourself and your own healing,
45:15
Speaker 2: and we would love to help you with that.
45:16
Speaker 1: Actually had a call with the potential client the other day.
45:19
Speaker 1: I take in you know, calls for you know, I
45:22
Speaker 1: do discovery calls with people who just want more you know,
45:25
Speaker 1: information on doc services. And the way that he described
45:29
Speaker 1: it was so well, you know, he said it. You know,
45:31
Speaker 1: my relationship. The demise of my relationship is so difficult
45:36
Speaker 1: to accept because it's death by a thousand paper cuts.
45:39
Speaker 1: Like there's no one thing that I can pinpoint that
45:41
Speaker 1: happened that was just like okay, this is what did it.
45:44
Speaker 1: It's just been this over lapping like small little things
45:49
Speaker 1: that like we can't even conceptualize either one or pinpoint,
45:54
Speaker 1: and so it just makes it so much harder to
45:56
Speaker 1: let go. And I really like that's.
45:58
Speaker 2: Where fear of vulnerable ability and poor communication rips you apart.
46:05
Speaker 2: The things that Donald and I have tips over are
46:07
Speaker 2: so tiny. But we're also we know that both of
46:12
Speaker 2: us are sort of prone to resentment, and so we
46:16
Speaker 2: just we're going to get it out there. Yeah, but well,
46:19
Speaker 2: a lot of times it's a curious thing. Hey, curious
46:21
Speaker 2: what you meant by that? Hey? Is everything okay? I
46:23
Speaker 2: noticed your tense right now, And then that can invite
46:27
Speaker 2: a conversation. It can invite him being like, well, you know,
46:30
Speaker 2: I feel like you were on your phone a lot
46:32
Speaker 2: when I was trying to That's probably the biggest Ah.
46:37
Speaker 2: This business is so hard, guys. It's so hard when
46:40
Speaker 2: I tell you that all I do all day long
46:42
Speaker 2: is just tech. What we were at an event last
46:45
Speaker 2: night for iHeartMedia, and I looked at my phone and
46:50
Speaker 2: I showed Rena I had twenty five text messages in
46:53
Speaker 2: like an hour of just being at that event. And
46:56
Speaker 2: it is so hard because I don't want my husband
46:58
Speaker 2: to feel ignored, right, So a lot of times I
47:01
Speaker 2: just have to set a boundary and I'm like, well,
47:02
Speaker 2: it'll live. I've got a great VP right here.
47:05
Speaker 1: She can't.
47:06
Speaker 2: She'll pee out that fire. She has to.
47:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I always say. I'm I think I
47:11
Speaker 1: was telling Liz a couple of weeks ago. She was like,
47:14
Speaker 1: should we it was something going on. She was like,
47:16
Speaker 1: should we talk to Sarah about it? I'm like, no,
47:18
Speaker 1: just leave Sara out of it. I was like, I'm
47:21
Speaker 1: the shit storm. Put her out or anyway.
47:23
Speaker 2: It's fine, it's true, it's true. It only if it
47:27
Speaker 2: has to elevate to me, it'll be bad. But then
47:30
Speaker 2: I feel like there's a lot of just little details.
47:32
Speaker 2: I mean, you can I kind of have to know
47:34
Speaker 2: what's going on with all my people and projects that
47:37
Speaker 2: we're doing, but.
47:38
Speaker 1: I always know when to bring it to you. Yeah,
47:40
Speaker 1: you do, And that's why you know we I was
47:42
Speaker 1: saying last night, we just made this excellent team because
47:44
Speaker 1: I think we both have really unique skill sets that
47:47
Speaker 1: are totally different than the other one for sure, and
47:51
Speaker 1: so we just we bring this really unique dynamic to
47:54
Speaker 1: conversations and the conversation that we were having last night.
47:58
Speaker 2: But we have to be vulnerable about things with each other.
48:00
Speaker 2: We have to be honest with each other about things
48:03
Speaker 2: or else. This would not work, and it wouldn't work
48:05
Speaker 2: in my marriage if we just if I just if
48:08
Speaker 2: my husband said something to me and it felt rude
48:12
Speaker 2: or passive, aggressive or mean. And he was raised with
48:15
Speaker 2: a mom who was love you Ellen, very like sarcastic,
48:20
Speaker 2: and so he's he tends to be kind of a
48:21
Speaker 2: sarcastic dude, like both in humor and just in everyday life.
48:25
Speaker 2: And so sometimes I don't know how to take it,
48:27
Speaker 2: Like if I think it's directed towards me, I'm like,
48:29
Speaker 2: what did you mean by that? But if I didn't
48:31
Speaker 2: say that and I just held it in, it would
48:34
Speaker 2: start to dysregulate me a little bit because I would
48:36
Speaker 2: be like, oh, he's got this issue with me.
48:38
Speaker 1: Well, you would see it from a lens of just like.
48:41
Speaker 2: He's trying to hurt me. He trying to hurt me.
48:43
Speaker 2: He's trying to and a lot of times he's not
48:45
Speaker 2: at all. He's just joking about something or he's just
48:48
Speaker 2: observing something and it's funny to him. But I take
48:51
Speaker 2: it as, Oh, that was about me and it was rude,
48:53
Speaker 2: and I have to step back and break my filter
48:55
Speaker 2: down and go, well, Nope, that's could not be about you, Sarah.
48:58
Speaker 2: How about we slow this down and get curious, but
49:01
Speaker 2: we have those conversations so important. It's so important. You
49:05
Speaker 2: don't want to die by a thousand paper cuts. You
49:08
Speaker 2: got to deal with each one. You got to nurture
49:10
Speaker 2: and let each one heal.
49:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really hope that that the person that I
49:14
Speaker 1: spoke to the other day, I really hope that him
49:16
Speaker 1: and his wife show up in group, because that was
49:19
Speaker 1: my suggestion. It's just group is just such a wonderful
49:22
Speaker 1: place to go, and I know that people are sometimes
49:27
Speaker 1: turned off all of it because of the group itself.
49:30
Speaker 2: But you can be anonymous.
49:32
Speaker 1: You can be anonymous and nobody has to.
49:34
Speaker 2: Know who you are. So what does it matter if
49:36
Speaker 2: nobody knows who you are. If you're a blank screen
49:40
Speaker 2: and you put something in the chat because you don't
49:42
Speaker 2: want to speak over the microphone, nobody is going to
49:45
Speaker 2: know who you are. Nobody and nobody, honestly nobody cares.
49:49
Speaker 2: You know. They're focused on their problems and their relationship.
49:53
Speaker 2: They're not like, oh, anonymous user twelve forty just said this, Yeah,
49:58
Speaker 2: they don't. They're like, okay, whatever, or does it apply
50:01
Speaker 2: to me, right, can I learn from that? I learned
50:02
Speaker 2: from this. That's what people are there for. And the
50:04
Speaker 2: group is such a great dynamic because it gives people
50:08
Speaker 2: the ability to be like, oh wow, I wouldn't have
50:12
Speaker 2: thought to ask that, but that happens in my relationship too,
50:14
Speaker 2: and I don't like it, and then they get to
50:18
Speaker 2: hear about it, because not everybody is gonna think on
50:20
Speaker 2: their feet fast enough to get all their questions answered.
50:23
Speaker 2: And so when other people are asking questions and you
50:27
Speaker 2: hear things that are familiar to your relationship, you can go, oh, yeah,
50:31
Speaker 2: you glad somebody asked that.
50:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have those ahall moments that you didn't even
50:36
Speaker 1: realize you'd have, and those are really profound, very profound. Okay,
50:41
Speaker 1: we're gonna do a couple more and then we'll wrap
50:42
Speaker 1: this up. Okay, yeah, let's maybe just do one more. Okay,
50:44
Speaker 1: one more. I'm trying to fully understand so I can
50:46
Speaker 1: heal and become secure. I'm one hundred percent sure, no
50:48
Speaker 1: question that I'm anxious. I would like to understand what
50:51
Speaker 1: my ex was in the beginning. I thought he was
50:54
Speaker 1: anxious like me, would always respond to my text right
50:57
Speaker 1: away and get annoyed if I didn't answer him right away,
50:59
Speaker 1: very clinging like me, wanting lots of attention and affection,
51:03
Speaker 1: lots of I love you. After the first six months,
51:05
Speaker 1: this faded. In the last six months he would change
51:07
Speaker 1: the subject when I try to talk about deeper emotions.
51:10
Speaker 1: He would do a lot of bread crumbing, tell me
51:12
Speaker 1: I'm a little too clingy, etc. Avoid questions he didn't
51:15
Speaker 1: want to answer. And then one day, it felt out
51:17
Speaker 1: of the blue, he ended things to focus on himself.
51:21
Speaker 1: Anything I sent him after that point he read, but
51:23
Speaker 1: no response, and he has completely shut down, making zero effort.
51:27
Speaker 1: I'm now assuming he's not anxious like me, and he's
51:30
Speaker 1: actually an avoidant. But what is the main way to
51:32
Speaker 1: tell the difference between a fearful avoidant and a dismissive
51:35
Speaker 1: avoidant And what does he sound like?
51:39
Speaker 2: Well, das can show up a little bit over the top.
51:43
Speaker 2: They can love bomb in the beginning of relationships because
51:47
Speaker 2: that is when they have no triggers coming up, because
51:49
Speaker 2: their triggers are around longevity, expectation, commitment, progressing in the
51:55
Speaker 2: relationship in big milestones, vulnerability, conflict, you know, more intimacy.
52:01
Speaker 2: So that six month mark is just a really it's
52:04
Speaker 2: a big turning point for them where they feel like,
52:08
Speaker 2: oh crap, now it's real. In the beginning, it doesn't
52:10
Speaker 2: feel real, and they can love bomb and they can
52:12
Speaker 2: act a little bit anxious. I don't necessarily think it's
52:16
Speaker 2: like that they are anxious. I think they're just trying
52:19
Speaker 2: to they're able to be somebody who they're really not,
52:26
Speaker 2: and to them it feels kind of alive and freeing,
52:28
Speaker 2: and they get lots of great chemical dumbs and things.
52:34
Speaker 2: But they only feel it at the beginning and then
52:38
Speaker 2: every single time for them, and I've heard DA say
52:41
Speaker 2: this so many times, I thought it was different. I
52:46
Speaker 2: don't know why I can't recognize that. I always feel
52:49
Speaker 2: this need to chase and to love and to be
52:52
Speaker 2: open in the beginning, and then it completely baits and switches,
52:57
Speaker 2: and I don't notice it. Each time I'm in that
53:00
Speaker 2: beginning phase. I think this is the one. This feels
53:03
Speaker 2: so different because I'm so I'm still sort of trailing
53:07
Speaker 2: on the feeling of deactivation from the last relationship that
53:10
Speaker 2: I forgot that I felt like this in the beginning,
53:13
Speaker 2: and so it tricks me into thinking this person is different.
53:18
Speaker 1: Painful, absolutely, which we're going to talk about in the
53:21
Speaker 1: next episode. Yeah.
53:22
Speaker 2: Absolutely, So it sounds very DA to me because but
53:26
Speaker 2: I would also have to know what we're What was
53:28
Speaker 2: he like in conflict? If we see a lot of reaction,
53:32
Speaker 2: what was a childhood like? Not everything can be predicted
53:36
Speaker 2: just by that limited amount of information. The changing the
53:40
Speaker 2: subjects and stuff of that does sound DA. You can
53:44
Speaker 2: never pinpoint them. You can literally. I would be amazed
53:49
Speaker 2: at the superpower of my Dax too. I could ask
53:53
Speaker 2: him the most direct question where I thought there's no
53:55
Speaker 2: way he can get around this other than not answering,
53:58
Speaker 2: and he would find a way to talk us, circle
54:00
Speaker 2: around it and not answer my question. If that question
54:03
Speaker 2: was about how do you feel what's going on? When
54:06
Speaker 2: am I? When am I even going to see you again?
54:09
Speaker 2: Accepted that at one point, oh Rain, I had to
54:12
Speaker 2: go through hell with me, and that I really.
54:14
Speaker 1: Now I think about it.
54:15
Speaker 2: Honestly. I think I dated a couple of das too,
54:18
Speaker 2: Yeah he did. Yeah, I think Mark was really Mark
54:20
Speaker 2: was definitely a DA. Really, Billy was a for sure
54:23
Speaker 2: day I knew that. Yeah, yeah, but we're not going
54:26
Speaker 2: to go into it.
54:27
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, no, we love our Yeah, And I.
54:30
Speaker 2: Would be like yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.
54:35
Speaker 1: But yeah, so we, like I said, we want to
54:37
Speaker 1: start doing these Q and as at least once a
54:38
Speaker 1: month because for sure, so insightful. I mean, still, guys,
54:43
Speaker 1: I'll say it, I say it over and over. But
54:45
Speaker 1: I have all Hall moments all the time. When I'm
54:48
Speaker 1: around Doc, or if I'm sitting in on group, or
54:50
Speaker 1: if I'm around and we're working, you know, together in
54:53
Speaker 1: her office and maybe she's doing some coaching sessions, I
54:56
Speaker 1: always feel like I learned something and we hope that
54:58
Speaker 1: you group.
54:59
Speaker 2: She's not in individual session, no.
55:01
Speaker 1: I'm not in the individual sessions. I am in group. No,
55:03
Speaker 1: I actually I have never been in an individual session.
55:05
Speaker 2: Now because we would not.
55:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, those yeah, those are completely confidential. But if you
55:11
Speaker 1: are looking to get help past of course these Q
55:15
Speaker 1: and A sessions that we offer here on the podcast,
55:18
Speaker 1: you can go check out doctor Hensley at the loovedoc
55:20
Speaker 1: dot com. Of course, for all of our listeners, we
55:22
Speaker 1: offer a special promo code love Doc twenty seven for
55:25
Speaker 1: twenty seven percent off for her self paced coaching programs
55:30
Speaker 1: and of course the hybrid group coaching program, which is
55:32
Speaker 1: always what I suggest, just because you get that added
55:35
Speaker 1: layer of intervention with the direct the direct access to
55:40
Speaker 1: doc or of course coach Elizabeth, who also runs groups.
55:44
Speaker 2: Just so so inside this such a dynamic place.
55:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is.
55:48
Speaker 2: It's such a dynamic here, like.
55:50
Speaker 1: Amy's feedback every week because Amy is our new coach
55:54
Speaker 1: and Amy's and.
55:55
Speaker 2: She's going to understands what the experience is like.
55:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think she's like an attachment nerd guys,
56:02
Speaker 1: and she's even having lots of aha moments.
56:04
Speaker 2: Yeah. She trained under Tys Skipson, who is honestly one
56:07
Speaker 2: of the only other people that I recommend in the
56:10
Speaker 2: attachment space. You can tell Tys and I were trained
56:12
Speaker 2: in the same era just because of you know, we're
56:16
Speaker 2: about the same age. We went through our training at
56:19
Speaker 2: the same time. So the new research that was out
56:22
Speaker 2: at that time, you know, it was our foundation of
56:25
Speaker 2: course Bowlby and all of that. We learned the history,
56:29
Speaker 2: but just we were there through the turning point of no,
56:34
Speaker 2: we need to recognize the disorganized and then the term
56:37
Speaker 2: changed to fearful avoidant. And just the way that she
56:40
Speaker 2: tends to look at the science and understand the science,
56:43
Speaker 2: it's very similar to me. But I know that her
56:45
Speaker 2: approach to healing is very dynamically different. And our new coach, Amy,
56:51
Speaker 2: you know, was trained under Tyss and then she went
56:53
Speaker 2: through my certification and she's like, Wow, I've learned something
56:57
Speaker 2: so incredibly different here that I think is extremely valuable.
57:02
Speaker 2: So although our approaches to healing are different, I think
57:06
Speaker 2: our understanding of the science is the same. And Amy
57:08
Speaker 2: has been a joy and we're so happy to have
57:10
Speaker 2: her on our team.
57:11
Speaker 1: We are so lucky to have such wonderful people as
57:15
Speaker 1: a part of our team.
57:16
Speaker 2: Yes, and they use my methods. Guys, they're not out
57:19
Speaker 2: there floating on their own just coming up with their
57:21
Speaker 2: own stuff. No, I wouldn't allow that. I only have
57:24
Speaker 2: two associate coaches for a reason. A lot of people
57:27
Speaker 2: expand their practice by selling their curriculum, by having hundreds
57:31
Speaker 2: of different coaches. I don't want that. I want to
57:33
Speaker 2: make sure my people are delivering my message in the
57:36
Speaker 2: way that I would deliver it. And I want to
57:38
Speaker 2: make sure that we hold each client with as much
57:40
Speaker 2: care and esteem as possible. And so I have to
57:43
Speaker 2: deeply trust you. If I'm going to bring you on
57:44
Speaker 2: to my team, just believe me. And that is why
57:46
Speaker 2: we expanded through the group instead of expanding with individual
57:50
Speaker 2: coaches because I believe, after the journey that I had
57:56
Speaker 2: and the amount of time that I spent with the science,
58:00
Speaker 2: I want my methodology out there because I believe in
58:03
Speaker 2: it so deeply.
58:03
Speaker 1: Yes, me too, and we hope you do too. And
58:07
Speaker 1: we just hope you guys continue to tune in every
58:09
Speaker 1: single week. Like we said at the beginning of this episode,
58:13
Speaker 1: please if you've had any type of impact, I mean, yeah,
58:17
Speaker 1: I mean, we don't really want a mean one. You know,
58:20
Speaker 1: We're open to constructive criticism. I think that we've learned
58:25
Speaker 1: a lot from a lot of the reviews, and I
58:26
Speaker 1: really tried, you know, I have really tried to take
58:30
Speaker 1: into consideration that things of people have said and learn
58:33
Speaker 1: from them and reflect and just do better. I mean,
58:36
Speaker 1: this is a learning process. This isn't anything I've ever
58:38
Speaker 1: done before, but it is absolutely my favorite thing to do.
58:41
Speaker 1: It's been healing for me just as much as it
58:44
Speaker 1: has been for you all, and so we hope that
58:45
Speaker 1: you will continue to tune in. Please leave us a review,
58:49
Speaker 1: of course, go check out doc at the lovedoc dot
58:51
Speaker 1: com or on any of her social media platforms at
58:54
Speaker 1: doctor Sarah Hensley use that code Love Doc twenty seven
58:56
Speaker 1: for twenty seven percent off and until next time, Peace, love,
59:00
Speaker 1: and perspective