Latest / WoT Spoilers / Sealed to the Flame - The Gathering Storm chapter 43 - EP538

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Sealed to the Flame - The Gathering Storm chapter 43 - EP538 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time spoilers podcast. In other
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: news of podcasts that I'm making, I just did a
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: great crossover episode with my mom's podcast used to Sew,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: because she wanted to talk about Bernadette Banner, the YouTube
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: account who did a full reconstruction of Moraine's Season one
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: outfit from just screenshots of the show. She's a drafter
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: and costumer and she actually breaks the costume down, figures
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: out how to make it, sews it together by hand,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: because that's what the late seventeenth century technology that Robert
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Jordan picked for the books would have you use. Although
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: there are invisible zippers apparently, which is really funny. It
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: was a really cool video. So I got to rant
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: about Wheel of Time in the context of Sewing to
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: the Sewing audience. It got to be like, okay, guys,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: so none of you know about Wheel of Time, So
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: just okay. Gandolf is a lady and Erragord is her
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: magic bodyguard and she wears blue because magic categories. It
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: was such a funny like crossover intersection thing. Yet again.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: This that's what I was doing earlier today. So I'm
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: in a talkative move now.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Oh good, good, good good, because I I'll let you
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: carry this episode. Of course, whenever I say that, I
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: end up talking more than not talking. But whatever, every time,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: every time, I'm so bad when I think i'm I'm like,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I don't have anything to say three hours away, we're
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: just saying.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: You have very dense notes on this chapter. There's a
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: lot to talk about in this chapter.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I have dnce highlights. I'm I'm sure I have as
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: much to say about it, right, Like, this is one
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: of those where a lot is happening, but it's uh,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's pretty straightforward. And also I don't have
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: a lot of conclusions. I have a lot of notes
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: and stuff I looked up, and I didn't really conclude anything.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I think this chapter is conclusion.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, because we are sander
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: lanching very hard towards the end. So it's just sort
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: of pure rush at this point. But also like the
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: rush of Shiriyan being unveiled in an incredibly dramatic way,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Like we as the audience have known she's black Auja.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Iguayne even told Swan that she was black Auja, but
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: this is unveiling her in front of the hall as
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: like a very dramatic set piece and yeah, yeah, it's
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: we've known this was coming and it is satisfying to see.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: But how much are we going to have to say
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: about it? Check the run time, see absolutely, we're being
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Well, what's always amazing to me is, you know, I mean,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: really solidifying her legacy of Oh, she's the ambulin who
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: came in and killed one fifth of us.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Like that is a very intense legacy.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Don't cross her.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: It's she's the ombrelin that presides over both rebuilding after
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: the worst attack ever and murdering their way to peer.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: It's a lot, It's a lot. Yeah, she was Omelint
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: for a week and in that time, twenty percent of
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: them are killed. Ridiculous. Well, and then all the ones
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: that die in the last battle too, I mean, like,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: if we're honest, hypothetical week. God, she also is the
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: ombolin for the last battle, which is really hard on
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: their numbers.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: I would love to get some hard numbers on how
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: many isid I are alive at the beginning of the
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: series versus how many are alive at the end of
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: the series and not counting like all the new ones
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: and stuff that come up. But like, of the ones
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: that are alive at the beginning, and are I said
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I at the beginning, how many of them make it
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: to the end?
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Eleven? I mean probably right.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: It's not a lot. It's not a lot like this,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, and certainly we're talking about twenty percent, but
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: like twenty percent of the rebels, I said, I. But
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: there's also twenty percent of the tower, I said, eye,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: and a lot of them escape to fight in the
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: last battle, where they're then killed or sequestered into a
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: o gear setting for the rest of their lives.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is not most of them, especial of them
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: are crispy crunchy by the end.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: There's really not a lot of forces for the Dark
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: that survive this thing. They really the the sean Chan
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: are ruthless about rounding up the last survivors and just
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: going to town on them.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Dark Side doesn't have a lot of reasons
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: to preserve its numbers for after. You know, the good
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: guys do need people to be left at the end
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: to put the world back together, but the Dark doesn't
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: in the same way. Just make more trawl, yeah, exactly.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: You've got like semi immortal forsaken and dread lords that
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: can easily be given a second life because of their
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: association with the Dark One, like you don't have to
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: worry about preserving them as you try to take over
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: the world.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Well, do you want to get into this chapter, read
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: us in and start talking to them.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Let's cut towards the end of Shirriam's tenure as keeper
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: all right, chapter forty three Sealed to the Flame, and
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: our symbol is the flame of Tarvalin. Igwaine sat quietly
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: in her tent, hands in her lap. She controlled her shock,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: her burning anger, and her incredulity. Plump Pretty Chasa sat
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: silently on a cushion in the corner, sewing embroidery on
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: the hem of one of Agwaine's dresses, looking as content
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: as a person could be now that her mistress had returned.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: The tent was secluded, set in its own grove within
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: the eyes to Dike camp. Igwain had allowed no attendance
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: beside Chasa this morning. She had even turned away Swan,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: who had undoubtedly come to offer some kind of apology.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Agwaine needed time to think, to prepare, and to deal
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: with her failure, and it was a failure. Yes, it
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: had been forced on her by others, but those others
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: were her followers and friends. They would know her anger
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: for their part in the s fiasco. But first she
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: needed to look inward to judge what she should have
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: done better. She sat in her wooden chair, high backed
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: with scroll work patterns across the armrests. Her tent was
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: as she had left it, desk, orderly blankets, folded, pillows
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: stacked in the corner, obviously kept dusted by Chasa like
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: a museum used to instruct children of days past. I'll
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: cut it there. I thought I shouldride through that chair line,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: cause we've been tracking Agwaine's chair this whole time. Right now,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: she's got a wooden chair that's high backed rather than
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: a rickety folding camp stool.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Right, much more sturdy, much more. Yeah, her place in
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: the rebels is well established. However, she still doesn't have
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: the ambulance seat quite yet, the full one.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: It is still just a wooded chair. Yeah, but it is, yeah,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: not a folding camp chair. It's not on the verge
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: of collapsing. She's got a back she can rest against
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: like it's a yeah, which you know, as we see
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: she's got a much firmer hold on these women than
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: when she left.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Still wish we had something on Chasa that was a
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: little more concrete, because she's not Like there's so many
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: there's so much evidence that she's not a dark friend, right,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: she's clearly, And then there's this weirdness where Agwayne thinks
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: she was appointed by Surium. But then and the way
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: the other two are killed and she's left behind, it
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: seems like she's a spy for the forsaken, right.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, she is the textbook definition of a red herring, right, right, Really,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: there's absolutely nothing happening there, and yet she is so
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: abitious by circumstance.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: I want her to be something, if nothing else. I
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: want her to be like, oh yeah, no, I was
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: sent by you know, God, like rand or something to
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: help you out.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know, like yeah, now. The absolute lack of
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: anything is amazing and.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: In a lot of ways is so appropriate. Like Ei,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: there has to be in all this plotting and people
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: pulling strings and doing everything, Chasa just wants to be
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: a good servant to a GWayne, And there's got to
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: be those people in the mix too. It's just making
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: me pull my hair out.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Chat, Shirim ended up just being the red haired, red
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: haired fitzpant I ban I'm yeah, but yeah, I mean
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: it's a red hairing in recursion, right, because Shiriam seemed
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: so trustable and then she's so bad and so clearly
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Chasa has to be bad too, and then know Chase's
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: actual it's just trustable, like hmm, but yeah, it feels
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: a little unsatisfying that there's no big reveal with Chasa,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: but also like it does kind of make sense to
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: have not every character have a big reveal.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: I guess, right, And I feel like, well, I was
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: gonna say in the beginning, it made sense if there
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: was some question over who Helima, which which character the
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: forsakend was, We're like, is it a Lima? Has it Chasa?
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Except we get like a POV from he Lima right
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: away and we know it is immediately. It's never really
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: it's one of the things that's not.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: The slow burn.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's like you set up red Herring but
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: then told us the answer.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: So it's like one of those little kids like telling
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: you a secret, you know what I mean, Like I
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: have a secret. It's blah blah blah and you're like, well,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: now it's not a secret.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not supposed to tell anyone. Well you did. Yeah,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: she has the oath Rod. Although she doesn't say what
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: the oath rot is.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: It's pretty obvious though.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Well, for a second I thought it was Vora's song. Real.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Guess yeah, Yeah, she's gonna absolutely annihilate any of your
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: enemies be gone.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: If you're if you're taking out the black a Jaw,
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: you might want the most powerful song we'll ever made.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, No, I feel like, yeah, no, you're right.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: It does kind of leave it up to the last minute,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: like what is she going to take out of her
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: sleeve pocket? Is it gonna be, yeah, a weapon of
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: total domination or is it just gonna.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Be the o throat or the tarn Real that makes
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: bail fire. That would be fun. Though, that's that's a
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: black one.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that one's not around, so that one's
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: still in dark front hands. Do we think that Agwaine
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: is as to blame for all of this as she
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: thinks she is?
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm so this. I don't like this
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: part of the chapter, this.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Whole like, okay, good, good, excellent.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: This section of the chapter is part of what drives
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: people nuts about Agwayne. The rationalization the I don't know
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: just this like do I deserve Yeah, I.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Don't like this part either. I find this very much
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: not the s I can't tell if this is always
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: been a part of a GWayne that's just coming out
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: more strongly under Sanderson's writing, or if this is really
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: a bad interpretation of who she is. I'm not sure,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: but yeah, this whole I am responsible for other people's
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: actions thing is like I am personally prone to taking
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: on so much responsibility for other people's actions that I
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: should not. And I've been really these past two days,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: really just being like, I apologize for things that are
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: not my fucking fault that no one asked me to
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: apologize for, and like to have her be like, you
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: know what, I should do, apologize for things that aren't
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: my fault. It's like a Gwain, I've been looking up
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: to you for so long. This is not the lesson
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: I want to be learning from you right now. I'm
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: trying to learn the opposite from this, you know.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: But I think also what bugs me is that she
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: cannot admit that other people might have that she might
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: not know everything right, that her plan wasn't perfect, and
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: that maybe getting pulled out at that time was something
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: that needed to happen. She's like, you have ruined everything.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Everything's going crazy, and maybe I just didn't communicate well
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: enough to let you know. And it's like, maybe you didn't,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: but also like maybe they use their own judgment to
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: pull you out when things got really bad, and that's okay.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: And in her defense, she is nineteen, and I did
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: have that sort of all or nothing approach to everything
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: that everyone did when I was nineteen, Like, you didn't
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: do what I wanted to have happened, Therefore my life
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: is ruined. Is like a very nineteen year old way
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: to look at things. But also she's like, I am
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the omorline. I've been trained by all these wise women,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: and the amalgamation of their wisdom is to take all
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: the responsibility on myself, and I just I don't know.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: And the other thing that I don't want to say
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: like about this is all this angst kind of goes
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: away because they end up accepting her as Ammeline anyway,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: So all this like back and forth angs about who
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: to blame, where it's like, eh, you're gonna be amelin
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: here in a second anyway, because because she doesn't know
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: that the light is gone, right, she says, she doesn't
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: know if light is still in charge. She's gonna act
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: like a light is still in charge when it's like, no,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: you don't need to because she's gone, she's been kidnapped,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: she's gone, like well.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: But she doesn't know that. She has no way of
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: knowing that. Like, she has every reason to think that
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: the Tower is gonna only take this as a minor setback.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: She has no idea that they're inside deciding to give up.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I mean that to me is the tension of this
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: is like will the Tower get their decision out in
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: time to not be attacked? I just, yeah, I just
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I'm really conflicted about how Agwaine approaches the Gobwin and
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Swan of.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: It, all right, right, right.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I just I don't I don't even know how I
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: feel about it. I know that I don't want her
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: to model this behavior for me, but I don't know
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: if that's a good thing or a bad thing, what
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: that says about me. I just know that it makes
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: me uncomfortable, right.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just the whole reasoning that goes on
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: in her head. It's like it doesn't. It just doesn't
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: feel like the Agwayne that I know, you know, the
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Igwayne that George that gets written in these last three
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: books does not care about her friends in the way
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: the Agwayne before these books did. And I know everyone's
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: going to tell you say, she's always been that way.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: She's always been ambitious, she's always been willing to run
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: away from people, but she always cared about her friends,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: and she cared about Agwayne. She cared about Rand even
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: if she was like trying to get powers so she
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: could support him. Right, But now there's just this lack
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: of giving a shit about her friends. It's all about
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: being the powerful being the Amberlin.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Which I think might be true to the Amberlin's Seat.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: I think that that might be something she tried to
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: do to herself because she thinks that that's what the
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: seat demands. So I don't know if it's untrue to
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: her character because she doesn't ever do anything half fast.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but where's the loyalty back to the two rivers?
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Right, Like, Yeah, it's kind of gone.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: It's kind of gone. It's kind of gone. And that
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: to me is like it's not that this is out
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: of character. It's that there was another layer to the
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: character that I feel like is gone, is stripped away.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which again I do kind of feel like she
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: does speed run Swan Swan's career Aslan, which is losing herself,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: losing important parts of herself, missing out on having a
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: well rounded human existence. Like in a way, this is
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: very true to that, this is her hollowing herself out
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: to serve the institution until she literally goes out in
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: a blaze of glory. And I mean she sounds more
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and more like Swan in these last three books. Her
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: and Swan have a much more similar voice, particularly the
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Swan of a few books ago. Like she again awayne
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: half ass is nothing. She takes on the Swan that
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: earned sworn out and mimics that, but again on a
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: speed run. And thus we get the end. We get
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: so like.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Talking about the end, just very briefly, I don't understand
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: why the sacrifice was necessary, why she had to use
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: that much power. It was not clear to me in
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: the text that she couldn't have used that same weave
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: to do the same thing, just on a slightly smaller
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: scale and not burn herself out. Yeah, and don't tell
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: me it's because Godwin, because fuck that all we do.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: There's an I said, I hear who's like, oh yeah,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: I'm sad, but I'm going on anyway.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Right Again, She's doesn't barely even get to turn twenty.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Like Adam, Lorna is probably in her sixties, if not older.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: She's got that much more life experience. So GWayne acts
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: like she can just absorb the lived experience of every
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: single elderly woman she's ever met. But like the fact
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: of them is, she's not even twenty five. She's not
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: even old enough to drink in our society.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: But I get it. Like the warders have the whole
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: suicide thing, but it m it just doesn't shouldn't affect
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: the isid eye in the same way. It makes them
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: feel pain, yes, and sad and like mourning, but not
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: the suicidal tendencies that she clearly embraced.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: But having your husband die can make a lot of
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: people feel very suicidal. She blended the two. She did
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: not go through the GREENAJA five year advanced course on
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: how to have your spouse be your ward. She just
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: did it impulsively without going through all the prerecs, and
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: like it destroyed her psyche I think.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: She's a stronger character than that.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I do know that I don't like
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Gawan and I really like the part where she says
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know how I feel about you and we
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: need to talk later.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: And then they never do you like that part two?
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: No, I don't like that part. I don't. I don't
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: like that. I don't like the part where she says
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: I need to talk later and he forces her to talk. Now,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I'm like, shut the fuck up. She's wearing her headphones
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: and she has some classes on. She does not want
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: to talk to you, even though you're both waiting for
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: the same bus. The fuck out.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: No, and I see the mirror with the Queen L dream.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: I guess my my problem was that it just it
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: didn't seem like she needed to pull in that much
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: power to seal the cracks.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: But she wanted to pull a Queen L dream. She
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: specifically wanted to imitate her ancient for bear spiritually speaking
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Queen al dream.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Anyway, anyway, I don't like it. I don't want I
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: don't think she should have been killed. I don't. I
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: don't think the stakes were high enough for her, for
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: her to sacrifice herself, I think the stakes could have
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: been set up better. I understand why the parallel was there,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: but I think the stakes should have been higher for
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: her to sacrifice herself.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Well, we'll rant about that when we get there. Now,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: I want to rant about how she will not let
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: herself fit physically move because she had to be reserved
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: at all times lest she unwittingly fall into bad habits.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: And as someone who's going on their autism on masking journey,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: which involves not masking your physical movements and physical expression,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I'm just like again, Agwayin, I have looked up to
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: you for so many years of my life. Please stop
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: modeling toxic behaviors that I'm actively trying to root out
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: of my psyche. Please stop saying that this is a
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: good thing.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but here's the thing. She's in the boardroom. She's
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: at a board meeting. She has to mask.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: She's literally not she's literally at a room with Chasah.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: She's literally saying I have to behave like I'm in
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: a boardroom twenty four to seven. And as I have
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: learned on my own masking journey, that is the path
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: to burn out. You have to have time where you
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: can be yourself and be unmasked and be relaxed around
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: people who care about you. Being alone in a tent
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: with Chasa is perfect.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Perfect, And that's what I'm saying. Like she used to
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: be that way around Soon, She used to be that
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: way around Chasa. She's I have this relaxed moment, and
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: now she's coming back and it's not there's that loss
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: of humanity somehow. Yeah.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I think she spent too much time in the dream
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: thinking of herself as the Amorline and not enough time
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: sleeping like a nineteen year old.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: But somehow she reshaped herself with all those night quests. Yeah.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's too much time in the dream shaping her
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: psyche around delusions of grandeur, and not enough just sleeping
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: like you're nineteen, you're barely done growing sleep more. Oh no,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: I got to push myself harder. I can't afford to
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: give in to sleep. I know that you physically can,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: but it's not good for you.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Oh see. My head canon is that she was kind
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: of like she was dream sleeping at night and then
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: sleep sleeping during the day.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: When was she doing all her plot stuff and traveling
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: and building up her power base and taking lessons.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Oh I was thinking when she was like just in
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: the prison itself.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Right, Oh no, I'm talking about like her entire art.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, No, I just spent so much time being
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: like I don't need to sleep, so I'll just be
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: in the dream world. I'll just be actively taking notes
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: on my dreams. Like she just never just zonks the
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: fuck out like a nineteen year old as supposed to.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: And I guess she wasn't actually in that prison. We
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: went back and figured out it was not that many days.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Three days, like three days, it's like three days.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she got a little bit of well rest, a
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: little bit of rest in the prison.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: And I feel like if she'd had wise ones observing
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: her during her arc in the rebel camp, they would
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: have been scolding her intensely for the way that she
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: was not sleeping properly. I mean, the way she hid
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: headaches from them after the land fear attack. Right, She's
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: been disobeying the safety protocols of the dream walkers more
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: or less since she learned how to dream walk, like
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: she's I just I don't believe that she's been taking
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: good enough care of her psyche, Like, no, wonder she's
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: bending out of shape and just becoming an archetype of
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: annoying power structure things rather than a human being.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's becoming fragile, right, she'd be getting harder in
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: the parlance of ram.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Right, she's the way that she's Randing harder than rand
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: ever could right in some ways.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: From the trauma, from the responsibility, from the masking, Like
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: he's kind of breaking and come and building himself back up.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: She just breaks and dies.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: It's being bendable versus brittle, right, I mean this is
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: kind of the difference between her and Alida, right, Like
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: she can bend better than Alida.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: And yeah, which she says right here, if Agwayne looked
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: like a statue unaffected by the winds, it was actually
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: because she saw how to bend with those winds. She
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: gave the illusion of control. Right. She talks about how
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: she's bendable here, but it's like, you're really not really not.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: She's bending her own humanity to fit the role. She's
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: not bending the world to adapt to her humanity.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: She is sacrificing her very free will to the institution.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Rather than saying I have boundaries, I will work nine
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: to five five days a week, and you cannot call
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: me on weekends. Right, She's on call twenty four to.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Seven, literally, because in her sleep she's still working.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Literally literally. It's her and Paren and Rand really all
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: do double duty with their sleep time. And I'm amazed
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Paren is as well rested and psychically sound as he
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: is given how much time he spends not truly sleeping.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: He's spent a huge chunk trying to blot out the
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: wolf dream. He's only now jumping back into it.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Right, true, True, He's had very fleeting contact up until now.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: It's been intense, but it's been broken up with large
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: swaths of not doing that. Yeah. Yeah, And maybe it's
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: fine to sacrifice yourself to an institution because the last
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: battle is coming. Maybe that's a reasonable choice. But again,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: I look up to Agwayne and it's hard to see
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: her choosing to do things that I'm like. But that's
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: so bad for you, that's so unhealthy for your nervous system.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I need to not follow you into this behavior, as
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: much as I admire you.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Out Yeah, I've never really found the Gwain to be
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: a role model, right, It's not never someone I've decided
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: I want to follow her example.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: It's specifically the cleaning the floor, clean the patch of
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: floor in front of you scene, like that's been so like,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: I hang so much of my like dealing with the
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: existential anks of the world on that scene. She carries
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: that scene, so I've got.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: More of the paren work the piece you're working on.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: The same lesson to any character.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Totally Okay. Then there's this sentence, which, again it feels
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: very Sanderson. I don't think Jordan would ever lay out
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: the features of the odd Jaws this clearly. But she
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: had to be as logical as white, as thoughtful as
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: a brown, as passionate as a blue, as decisive as
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: a green, as merciful as a yellow, as diplomatic as
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: a gray, and vengeful as a red. And it really
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: sort of gives you this like an adjective to go
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: with every single odd job that sort of describes it
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: in one word. And I don't think Jordan would have
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: ever broken it down that way.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: I kind of wish he had, though, particularly vengeful as
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: a red.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: I really was like, oh, that's the that's the positive
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: value neutral thing that is the rec because they've been
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: so the villain this whole time.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: But like clearly they have a function and when this
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: line vengeful, because vengeance is not necessarily always negative.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Right right, right, if you're wrong, Judgment and.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Justice and like there's these things that can be weaponized
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: or can be really powerful. And I kind of wish
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Jordan had been just slightly more uh direct once about this.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: I felt this was against Sanderlanchi in like he's putting
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: a bow on it, right, right, So I kind of
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: liked it because I was like, we are in put
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: a bow on it part of the book. But yeah,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Jordan would never be this direct, and I kind of.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: No, because I feel like it breaks them down into
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: you know, houses, right, potterhouses and stuff like that. Right,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: there's these very simplistic, single adjective discres where he's like, no,
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: they have these different meaning like the green is all
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: about loving people but also battle and passion and like
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: passions in there, but here, you know, decisive as a
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: green and passion is blue. I don't know, it's just
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: there's there's Jordan is always going to have a nebulous,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: fuzzy definition and Sanderson's always going to put that in
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: very stark, hard lines in black and white.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's a very Sanderson line. I agree, it
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: felt very like, oh okay, I can tell Sanderson. But
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: also it's kind of cool because you're like, so, this
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: is how Sanderson sees them. Yes, this is the one
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: word summary of how Sanderson is going to approach writing
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: them as a character class. And it's a it's an
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: appropriate time to put that in there. It felt right
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: in terms of the way that she's thinking about stuff
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: from a bird's eye view. But yeah, it's Jordan would
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: never be so direct, never ever.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Never ever, And what do you think about? Is like white, logical, sure,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: thoughtful brown as opposed to like research.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, I would say that being thoughtful is part
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: of research, like really sitting back and considering something from
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: all angles and not leaping to conclusions but actually like
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: playing out each hypothesis and then making a choice is
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: very brown.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Passionate for blues.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Causes, right, People who are really into a cause tend
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: to be really passionate about that cause. Decisive for a Greens.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I was a little perplexed by, Like, I guess that's
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: the attribute of being a general, just being decisive.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like if you're in a battle,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: you have to basically make decisions and stick with them
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: because you don't get to have a chance to second
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: guess your decisions. So that's where decisive would come from
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: the battle part of the adjaw, Like you have to
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: make decisive decisions in a battle. Also, you know, you
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: can't unfuck somebody, so you got to be pretty decisive
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: about it.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: True, true, merciful as a yellow makes.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: A lot of sense sure for mercy, Yeah.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes, you know, I mean the concept of a
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: mercy killing, you know, the concept of putting someone down humanly,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: like with pets. You know, like that fits with medicine, triage,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: and you know, care for the living and abandon the
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: dead like palliative care. All that feels very yellow.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Ideally yellow, like these are all the ideals of what
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: we think the addjas should be.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: But again, this is a GWayne thinking about the institution
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: in its highest, most rarefied ideal. This is her saying,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: in an ideal world in omrelin is the highlight reel
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: of the best qualities of the adjas. That's the context
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: this paragraph comes about. And she's not describing the women.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: She's describing the archetypes, and.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: It kind of goes well with her being asked by
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: every oddja to join them.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Exactly later in this chapter, they look around and say,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: you know who encompasses all of our interests is Agwain.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: So it makes sense to have her thinking about them
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: as an institutional summary just before that POV switch.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: So she's basically the next big chunk is her thinking
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: about strategy. Strategy, right, She's like, I can't go back
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: in as an novice, right, I can't reconstruct the situation
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: that was working so well for me now that I've
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: been pulled out. Going back in would seem you know,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: stupid or arrogant, which agree, yeah, yeah, totally. And it's
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: taking her down the thought path of Okay, I need
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: to stop messing around. I can't bring it down from
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: the inside. I'm going to have to bring it down
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: from the outside. I'm going to have to invade with
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: my soldiers, and I'm going to have to attack the
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: White Tower. Sort of that thought process that she goes through.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: And that there's a time limit on when that attack
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: will work, right, Because part of the reason why they
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: did the siege was because a frontal assault would be
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: so expensive, it would be so deadly, and because of
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: the Shawn Han attack she now has an imbalanced set
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: of forces, right, She now has a fresh army while
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: the tower is bloodied, and that hasn't been the case
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: up until now. And she only has two or three
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: days before they go back to the impass and before
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: she was captured. So she has to be as decisive
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: as her idea of what agreen is to figure this out,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: because there has been before it's been well, we'll figure
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: this out eventually. Now there's a ticking time club.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: It's eventually, you know, eventually is here.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: We're here now.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: And so she heads out right basically to make an announcement,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: and there's Gowin to interrupt her. This is such a
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: like I want to deal with you now later Gowin
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: and he's like, no, deal with me now, and she's
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: like it's not a good time, and he forces her
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: to deal with him anyway, and of course he doesn't
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: get the answer that he wants.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: And he's like, well, I've sacrificed so much, I've waited
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: so long. And it's like, sir, I have a career
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: that lives depend on can we please talk about this later.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: He's like, eh, but my fiefees. It's like, sir, do
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: you want to be a supportive partner to a powerful
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: woman who's got like nations level control, or do you
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: want to be taken care of constantly? Like make up
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: your mind.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: This has all the feeling of some shitty boyfriend trying
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: to get his like print t shirt business off the
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: ground and preventing his surgeon wife from going in and
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: like saving lives while there's like there's an organ on
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: the table that has a timeline that needs to get
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: into a new person before it dies. And he's like, wait, wait, wait, wait,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I need to me help with my T shirt business,
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: you know, And she's like not right now. Now's not
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: a good time, right.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, basically just oh.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: This shittiest boyfriend who thinks that his things, whatever he's
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: thinking about, is more important than whatever she's doing, even
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: though she's a far more important person in this society.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: And he's like no, no, no, stop doing what you're
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: doing and talk to me.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And he's like, I've waited for a month. She
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: didn't know you were waiting for a month. She assumed
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: that you went off to help support your sister, like
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: a smart person would have like a halfway holding to
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: their oaths person, what have she assumed that you had
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: a job and you were doing it and you'd managed
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: to connect later. She didn't know that you were waiting
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: for months. She has no obligation to you, Leake. Yeah,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: it's ugh, it's such shitty, And I mean again, he's young,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: he's a dumbass. He's the age when most people are
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: shitty boyfriends. But like, oh my god, it's so she
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: is like, I'm gonna have to order a group of
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: people I care about to kill another group of people
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: I care about. But on the way, I have to
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: show that some of my closest advisors were actually working
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: for the literal dark side the whole time. No, I
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: don't care that you've been all up in your feelings
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: parked in a cowtown. Like, no, you weren't in the
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: calculus right now. And if you can't respect my need
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: to talk to you later, like why are we even
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: in a relationship? Like I wish she had dumped his
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: ass because he wouldn't let it go right here.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: God, yeah, this whole I was worried about you, and
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: that worry was what I was asking of you, Like
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: I wanted you to not rescue me. I was told
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: you not to rescue me, Suan said, not to rescue me,
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: but because you were just a little bit worried and
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: you didn't want to feel uncomfortable. You had to come
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: in there, and you didn't want to have anxiety about
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: what might happen to me. Like you pulled me out
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: of a situation that I now have to figure out
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: that may now cause me to attack the other half
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: of the tower and turn the one thing she doesn't
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: want to do, turn two halves of the tower against
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: each other, I said, I shedding each other's blood like
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: before the last battle. It is the worst possible outcome.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: And here Godwin is the one who kind of caused
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: that to happen because he didn't listen to her orders, because.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: He didn't trust her enough to do the thing. And yeah,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: they're not even really in a relationship. They're in a
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: sort of we're going to talk about it later and
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: he's like, I need to talk about it right now.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: It's like, no, sir, by your own admission, you've waited
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: for months. You can wait until this evening when I
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: have him in it and then.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: This whole like listen, I love you, but like as
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: of the Ambulin, I'm pissed at you like, you violated
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: my order and he's like, yeah, but you know you're
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: not really the Amerlin.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Oh my god again drop his ass.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah that should have been the first. Like even fucking
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Matt respected her as amrelin more than Gotlin.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Does, truly truly, a man from her hometown that she
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: has a deeply antagonistic relationship with respects her more than
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: her literal wanna be boyfriend husband and him being.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Like, but when we left, you were just an accepted.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: It's like, how can you love this man? How can
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: this man claim to love you when he has not
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: seen any of the growth or any of the things
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: that have happened since you two left when you were
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: quote unquote just and accepted. Yeah, all the trauma, all.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: The so handsome, he's just so handsome. He's he's not
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: pretty like his brother. He's a better kind of handsome.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: I literally don't care. Stop thinking with your nineteen year
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: old brain.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: His flaws make him real, His flaws make him flawed.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like you were just throwing all of your
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: friends under the bus for the sake of an institution,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: but now you're all a flutter for this for his
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: jaw line, Like you can't trust your you can't care
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: about your friends who just made mistakes because they were
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: worried about you. But you can forgive this band because
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: he's got a cute jaw line like ugh ugh.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: And also when you left, you weren't accepted. Now you're Ammelin.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: He was the leader of the younglings. Now he's just
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: an unemployed soldier. He's like, I want to come work
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: for you, so I quit my job. It's like, oh God,
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: all right, fine, you should have kept your job. Now
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: you're just unemployed.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, POV switch Ready for POV switch, Like
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: she finishes her conversation with Godwin and then heads off
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: to the hall, to the hall's pavilion tent, and then
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: we pov switch to the literal well, not the literal hall,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: but the tower where the hall is.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: The only thing. The only thing I will say is
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: him point where he says, I don't care about Tarbalan,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: but I know what it would do to you to
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: attack it. It's like yeah, and you're the one forcing
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: her into that.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It's like one of those like that's a
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: good point, but not from you. You don't get to
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: make that point. It is a good point, but not
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: not from you, not from you. For now, we're going
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: to go to this POV where I confuse it with
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: it's not from Ada Lorna. It just starts with Adam
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Lorna talking. She's very present in this scene. But we
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: are actually in the head of the head of the
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Brown Aja Jesse Belah Jesse. And yeah, it's the five
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: heads of the Ajas that are still relevant, right, because
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Blue has been banished and Red is currently laying as
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: low as it possibly can. So the five of remaining Ajas,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: their heads are together talking about what they're going to
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: do in the aftermath of the attack because they know
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: that the Lada is gone. They know that Igwayn is gone. Right.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: The other reason the Red is not invited is because
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: the Red head, who was part of this is gone. Right,
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: They've got a new head of right, the Red. Which
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: how do they know who's the head of the Red Adjar.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing they don't. Actually, I'm guessing that the Red
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: is currently figuring that out and they know they're not
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: invited to this meeting anyway, So it's not relevant because yeah,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: because that's part of what also binds them together, is
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: not just that they're heads at the Ajas, but that
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: they all conspired to send the two young sitters to
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: do haul things in both the rebels and the tower camps,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: and they kind of are the architects of that whole conspiracy,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: So it really doesn't make sense to bring in someone
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: who wasn't part of that conspiracy as they sort out
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: what to do in the Appa aftermath.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: And this is the answer to the Suan's two young
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Sitters thing that we've seen in both both the Tower
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: and in the rebels, Like what was going on? How
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: did that happen? They lay it all out here, which
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: is basically they elected young sitters so that when they
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: thought that the rebels would be easily cowed and they'd
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: be able to bring them back together and those young
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: sitters would just go back to being sisters again with
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: no fuss, musts or issues.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they literally thought that they could end the rebellion
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: quietly with no more damage than a few bruised egos.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: And now after all this, we're like, maybe we shouldn't
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: have allowed Alida to disband. The boy could have been
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: a step too far, And it's like, yeah, there are
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: lines in the sand, and you need to be very
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: unequivocal about when those lines get crossed, right, Like, when
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: you do a thing that is empirically illegal, immoral and
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: against the long term stability of the system that you
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: claim to support, you need to call it out then
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: and there, not six months later.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: But it's all black Auja, right. Why was the blue banished?
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: I mean some of that was Alida, but some of
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: that was the Black Aja really going out and about
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: making sure.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: That they proposed it. But non Black Goja sitters and
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Aja heads and other people all supported it because, oh,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: we got to not rock the boat. We got to compromise.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: We gotta play nice, We gotta not be absolutist. We
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: got to compromise. Just one little concent It's just a
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: symbolic concession. It won't actually like lead to the complete
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: and total power of dictators taking over everything, you know.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: But I'm wondering how how much would they have been
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: able to actually talk the rebels back into the fold
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: and do it quietly if it weren't for the Black
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Adja and the Forsaken on either side trying to keep
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: them apart.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, definitely the Black Oujua and the Forsaken
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: are huge that to blame. But these women are not
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: black Auja, and they are very responsible for allowing Alida
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: to disband the Blue Like Jesse thinks we shouldn't have
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: let her do that, Like, yeah, you should have stood
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: up when the bad things were happening, and you should
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: have been loud and unequivocal and brave about calling out
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: bullshit when it happened the first time instead of waiting
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: until everything's on fire to go.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Oops.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: I guess we shouldn't have done that.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, I can't think of any modern world realistic
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: parallels where a group of congressional powerful body should be
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: taking steps to stop a powerful figurehead from doing terrible things,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: and then when they don't and shit goes bad, they say, oh,
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: maybe we should have done something earlier, but it's too
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: late now, so we're still not going to do anything. Yeah. No,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: no modern examples come to mind.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Yep, definitely definitely not to quote Jesse. Don't be mad
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: at us. We're just the messengers, which is often the
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: role of the Brown. We're the librarians. We read a lot,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: that's all. We're just communicating information.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Ay ay, this rhymes with that history thing, and if
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: it keeps going, the same way we predict this, this
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: and this. Oh my god, we were right. Just the messengers.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: It's just pattern recognition, that's all.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm talking about Canada. Yep, definitely.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: And then here's one of the best lenes. And what
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: good will it do to blame one another? Are we
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: so childish that we will spend this meeting election period
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: of time of your choosing squabbling about which one of
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: us will hang in a useless attempt to evade our responsibility.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Just take the fucking responsibility and actually act on it.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Evading responsibility is not the fucking point. It's way past
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: the time to worry about who's responsible in a nitpicky way,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: and time to just do the thing that you are
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: responsible for fixing. Again, no parallels, just the books.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Books, just books. So Alida has been taken by the
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: Sean Chan and they were deciding we are not going
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: to try and attempt to rescue one because it's just
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: not feasible and two we don't really.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Want to, which yeah, yeah, again, if Agwayne had been taken,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: they would have gone, oh no, we have all the
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: will in the world and not the resources. But Alida,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: there's there's no will. Even they're not even going to
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: feel bad about moving on from that decision.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: It's like when Galina was like, there is surely I
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: will be rescued. They're gonna send lots and lots of
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: people after me, and nobody gives a shit. Nobody even
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: knows has taken.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Right, Like the black Auja doesn't care, the Red Auja
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: doesn't care. Nobody cares. Yeah, it's very parallel, very parallel.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: So then we decide to pick. They throw out a
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: couple of s names for Amrelin because why not, I.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Mean, none of them are gonna get taken. Seriously, why
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: not go.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: To the states? Right? Seane Saren? I mean we've we've
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: gone over these names a million times. Suana.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they basically throw out some names they consider what
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: if it's one of.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Us, Santa. There's a lot of s names in.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: This Yeah, Sarancha, who I always am, just like Siracha?
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: What like, why is there a sauce as an isid?
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: I mean I don't have a problem with it. It's
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: a fine sauce.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: But like, I mean, you pick enough names, eventually you're
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: going to get some overlap with some real words, right.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: Right, And they talk about how it should be possible
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: to resolve the rebellion now that Alighta's out of the picture,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: because the rebellion was against Alida. Right, so if a
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: light is not around, then maybe we have a reason
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: to stop with this staring match. Maybe we can back away.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: It was right, they declared war on Alida, specifically right
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: on a person, not on.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: The false Omberlin Alida doavriny E Royha, not on the tower,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: not on the Omberlin seat as an institution or an office,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: but specifically on the woman.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Legally, Agwain doesn't have a foot to stand on with
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Alida being gone to attack the tower.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, exactly, there's every reason for the people
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: who want this conflict to be over to finally get
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: what they want. Elighta really was the sticking point in
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of ways. And yeah, they're like, we don't
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: know who to pick except for the one person who's
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: super super obvious. Okay, yeah, we should do the obvious one. Sure.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: They really don't debate about it. Once they realize that
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: there's only one choice, they're like, well, she has done
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: the work to be the only choice.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: The fourth their own, like I want my add Jaws
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: leader to be the person, and they all pick someone
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: from their own add jah and go oh crap, Like,
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: no one is going to let us gain power by
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: either picking someone in this room or someone from one
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: of the ad jaws. We have to pick someone from
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: no odd jaws and someone who's done the job before.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Even if it's illegitimate, everyone already knows. Yeah, and you know,
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: unspoken is she spent the last however many weeks impressing
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: all of these people giving them advice. Like we've seen
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: her in in the rooms with these women and they've
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: taken advice from her, and it's like, yeah, they probably
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: think she is a legitimate amberline. And then they say
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: that do the job. She's been doing the job. They're like,
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: if we raise this person, this is not a puppet.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: This is not someone we're trying to control. This is
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: someone we're going to enable to be the best ambrelin
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: she can be.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean she's already been proving it from like
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: the way that the rebellion. You know, she's managed that great.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: She came in and has just been doing the job,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: even though we keep denying her the ability to like
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: what if what if she actually had us all behind
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: her and had the power, like we wouldn't be able
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: to stop her, but we wouldn't want to either, so
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: And also just like how badly the plan failed of like, oh,
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: we tried to get a bunch of women we could control.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Instead it was like trying to herd cats and we
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: failed miserably.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and here's someone who has empirically proven she can
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: herd cats, like she's been hurting us.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: The cats and the with Alida more effectively than us and.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: Will be acceptable to the other half. Right, that's the
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: thing too, is not just acceptable within any given camp,
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: but acceptable to both camps. Like that's a unicorn, that's
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: a literal unicorn.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: And it essentially fixes the schism because it's like, oh,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: we've all we've elected the same leader, right, Like, yeah.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: It truly was Alida the whole time. Alida was the
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: entire problem. She's the one that deposed the old Omerlind.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: She's the one that created an irreconcilable rift. And once
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: she's gone, it's possible to reconcile. It's possible to reinstate
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: the blue, to formally apologize for all wrongs done, to
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: wipe the slate clean. Like it's unlike in the real world,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Alida truly is a one woman problem. I mean, yes,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: she has ALVR and and all of that backing her up,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: but like, it's such a narrower conspiracy in these books
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: than it is in the real world with the parallels
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: that we aren't making, and.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: We've seen both in the real world. In in these books,
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: declarations made by a leader don't necessarily have staying power
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: because the next leader can come in and just turn
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: those arounds. So you really need the legislative body to
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: enact those changes in order to keep them in place,
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: even though it's a lot harder, right.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, if you can get the legislative bodies to
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: be pointed in the same direction, shit can go fast.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: You can go really fast. You can get a lot done.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: You can take a giant schism and put it back
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: together in relatively short order once everyone's pointed in the
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: same direction. But if they're not, then yeah, you can
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: grind to a halt while still technically moving forward. I
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: mean we saw that in the rebel camp. Like you
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: need people to want it.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: That's the big difference between a leader and someone who's
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: just the head of something, right, because a leader will say, hey,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: I want this thing to happen, will go to the
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: legislative body, work with them, make sure it happens, make
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: sure that it gets past, and make sure that it
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: has longevity. Someone who's just in charge will say, I
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: want to make this happen. I declare bankruptcy, you know,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: or I declar whatever, you know, makes a declaration. It
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: might last while they're in charge, but the second they're
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: out or the people they chose are out, it just
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: reverts back to the way it was before.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, the Tower agrees that they want to GWayne,
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: but they don't seem to have any urgency on getting
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: the message to her. They don't have any I they
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: don't seem to have any idea that the other side
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: is gearing up to punch them in the face while
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: they're down.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: They seem to think they have all the type of
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: the world to get this message to the rebels. Meanwhile,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: Igwaine is just holding back the attack as long as
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: she can, just on sheer hunch, reluctance. It's I wish
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: that they were more urgent.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: You know, Well, what's the first thing you think of
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: when a rebel army shows up your gates? The audacity.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: How dare they like seriously? Yeah, they don't even think
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: about like, oh, maybe we should ourselves. It's like, oh,
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: they're not even gonna bother. No one can stand up
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: to the White Tower. You just got your butt kicked
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: by the Sean Chan.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: I know, right, Like you are still smoking, ma'am. Your
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: skirts are still literally smoldering, Like people are not taking
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: you quite as seriously as they were for the next
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: little bit.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: So then POV switch back to uh, Swan right.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, POV switch over to Swan doing upsettingly heterosexual things
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: romantic things.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: In the books, she's straight, Okay, in the book she's
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: bye bye. That's fair.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, she's bye.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: She used to be by. I'm not sure she still is.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: No, she is by. No, you don't lose your bisexuality
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: by being bisexual. Being bisexual means you can be with
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: men and women. It's just not do bisexual erasuate. The
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: fact that she's doing upsettingly hetero things does not erase
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: her bisexuality. It's just upsetting the hetero because Bryn is
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: very heterol. Brynn is not queer. I don't think at all.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying the way the author wrote them, wrote this,
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: the character that is currently being written is no longer
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: bisexual or not the character.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: Which is bisexual erasure. So I disagree. No, it in
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: a world where there isn't an unresolved girlhood crush that
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: was just a phase in college with Mauraine. I do
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: actually think that this courtship is very sweet. I do
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: like how Brynn approaches his romantic relationships. He seems like
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: a very nice guy. It's just the weird it was
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: just a phase in college thing. That's just like, ah,
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: but no, I do love Brynn in this whole interaction.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: It's a very sweet thing if we set aside all
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: the head canon and all the fandom anks that I've
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: picked up along the way.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: So we open with Suwan watching Cherium basically, which is
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: what her orders.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Were, Sherium's last few moments as a free.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Woman, Yes, as an alive woman.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because she steals herself into that tent and she
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: doesn't come out except under heavy guard, Like, yeah, that's Shiri.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: I'm sealing herself into her final meeting as caper. But
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Swan doesn't get to go in because she's not a
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: sitter and it's a sealed as the title of the
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: chapter says, it is a sealed to the Flame meeting,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: so Swan doesn't get to go in, right because.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: This is the first opening move on taking down the
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Dark Friends, so she wants to keep that as tight
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: as possible so it doesn't leak out.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: And technically, Swan already knows more or less what's happening, right,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: she knows about Shiriam. It's not going to be a
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: surprise to her when this reveal starts. She's going to
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: figure it out sooner than everyone sure.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: But that's why it's sealed to the flame, though, is
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: to keep anyone else who's not part of that in
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: inner circle from finding out. Yes, yes, so kind of
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: what follows is her basically saying, I know I'm going
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: to get paid for last night. I didn't realize how
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: secure her place in the tower was, but I did
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: what I felt like I should based on the information
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: I knew at the time.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which, you know, we can disagree all we like,
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: but the fact is that she does correctly articulate this
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: is the decision I made based on the information I had. Like,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: She's not wrong, she did make that decision based on
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: that information, and she can see that she was wrong.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: She stands by it. We can disagree, but like whatever,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: reasonable people can disagree.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Which is different than Gowin's approach, which is he's like, no,
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: I did the right thing, you should thank me for it,
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: Like he has a totally different opinion.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Swan's like, I did the right thing in my opinion,
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: but I can see where GWayne disagrees, Like, I still
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: would make the same decision, but you know whatever.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: It's what's the do what you have to and pay
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: for it later.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly exactly. Gowin does not understand that. He does
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: not get that if you fuck around you we'll find out,
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: whereas Swan gets it. Swan's like, yeah, I fucked around,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: and I probably would fuck around exactly the same way again.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: But yeah, this is what the find out phase looks like.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: I guess I'll just deal with it instead of being
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: a whiny little brat.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Then she thinks a little bit about the Bond and
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: Gareth Brynn. I thought an interesting quote was there was
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: a helpful clarity to his way of reasoning, not that
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: he was simple, just less inclined to regret decisions he'd
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: already made. I thought that was an interesting little quote
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: to categorize him, and it's a way she sort of
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: says men in general, but I think Gareth Brnn in
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: particular in this case when he's a general.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: Right, we were just talking about like decisive as a
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: green and the greens are the battle and the captain
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: general of the Green. So for him a general to
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: just be very decisive, very confident in like once I've
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: made a decision, I don't second guess. It is like, okay,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: internal consistency on the martial attitude. Yeah, it's I don't
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: like framing it as a men versus women, but I
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: do like framing it as a This is what makes
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: a Gareth Brynn such a uniquely good general and helpful
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: right hand man in dealing with stuff like this is
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: a really good way. These are people you should seek out,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: people who can make a decision and not tie themselves
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: into pretzels second guessing it are worth having in your
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: circles gets you a Gareth Brynn.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: And then what follows is probably the most casual proposal
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: It really is, and yet it feels perfectly in line
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: with her relationship and.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: Go it's like, what are you going to demand? Me,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: I'm going to demand that you marry me. Well, I fine,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: wait was that a proposal and an acceptance?
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: It's cute, but no, because he says, I'm planning to
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: demand that you marry me, but only once you're ready.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah right.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. That's the whole thing where she's like
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: really feels soft and sweet towards him, is because he's
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: not going to demand that she marry him until she
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: is confident that the world has been saved. He's like,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: you're not gonna say yes until you feel like all
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: of these last battle responsibilities are done, and you will.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: I know you'll say no at this point, So I
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: won't be demanding that until I know that you'll be
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: able to say yes. And she feels very soft and
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: sweet about that because he's willing to wait for her
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: and that's really what she needs at this point. And
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: you know, they're engaged to get that exactly. They're promised,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: they're going steady, they're exclusive, they're whatever euphemistic thing they
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: need to put on it, but it's engaged. It's engaged.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: They're just yeah, engaged to be engaged. And you know,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: but they don't get married because the books suck, but
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: you know it's still it's it's almost part of how
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: you know they're going to die, right because they're like, well,
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: we're just one week for retirement, so we'll be good
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: once we retire.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: You know. It's like that's kind of work. And I mean,
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: and Gareth Brent sucked at retirement in the first place. True, true, true,
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: both of them sucked at retirement.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: It's literally they're like, I've been retired for five minutes.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: I'm getting hives, cannot deal.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: Zuan was forced free retired and she figured out how
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: to get her old job back, basically be the advisor
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: to her old job.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're going to have an amazing not retired retirement.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: They're going to go into the sunset working together just great,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: never actually retiring.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: We're retired, then what's this business? You run our retirement business? Okay?
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: You know that.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, like literally, my grandfather, well but both my
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: grandfather and my grandmother both still work. They still have
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: jobs in the sense that they have responsibilities to other
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: people in an institutional context, but they do it entirely
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: for fun, not for pay. The way they phrase it
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: is they're no longer working for economic gain right, they're
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: doing what they want to do.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: They're rich old people, and they are not just sitting
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: back and watching TV or taking a cruise. They are
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: like writing papers and running workshop and like they're doing things.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: They travel a whole bunch, Like.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: Hey, leave some work for the rest of us.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: Eh naw, they're doing some very niche things. There'll be
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: plenty of stuff for the rest of us. But yeah,
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: it's they are not retired in the sense that they
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: have a full schedule. They have people they're responsible to,
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: they have stuff to turn in, like they are working
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: in the world and they're very happy doing it and
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: will not be stopping until Like they're just gonna keep
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: going little energizer bunnies forever, Like they're just gonna run forever.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: God, I can't wait to retire.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: They're not getting paid nantalk, They're not deflating your salaries.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: It's just like my grandfather still teaches classes sometimes because
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: people want to learn from him.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: But working from free does devalue salaries.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying they're not working at things that are
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: getting paid, Like my grandmother works as an administrator for
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: a nonprofit. Like no one was gonna get paid for
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: that job.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it's again fucking ruins everything.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. They're doing things that capitalism would not support
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: because they have enough money that they can pay for
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: it themselves, right, they can pay to do the jobs
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: that they're doing. But they have very fit, busy schedules
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: as a result, which is cool. What else about Swan
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: and Brynn, that's basically it. Brynn does get her. He
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: talks about how she has such high standards for herself
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: that no one else can set them higher, which like relatable.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: It's really short POV because we switched right back to
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: Agwain pretty quick.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And this is the good part of the chapter.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: This is the part I've been eagerly anticipating, is this
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: scene where Agwayne just absolutely slams the hall with revelation.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: We open with the Ajaws had all sent one sitter
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: with the envoy to the Black Tower. So all the
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: Adjaws are missing one sitter, so usually there's three, and
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: you know, this is six Ajaws. There's no red Adja
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: right with the rebels, so they're missing six of the sitters.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very diminished tall, don't really know who they all
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: end up being.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: I'm going to read directly from Encyclopedia Watt. Here, we
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: can only be certain that Lyrel was one of the delegates.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: If we make an assumption that the five sitters who
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: were violently opposed to the delegation were not sent, then
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: we have the following Blue Lyrel, Brown, Janya or s Carle, Escaralda, Escaralda,
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: thank you, Gray, Nori.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Sima Nasura.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: No, that's not right, Norissa, Norrissa. That looks right, Green,
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: melind or Melin wow Cemelin White, Aldrin, Yellow, Salita. I
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: don't think there's anything to be gained from figuring out
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: who those people are. Just that, like, that's who went
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: to the delegation. We also find out Myrel, Niasso, Phalen
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: and Theodrin are there as well.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: So yeah, there's the one black Aja that Agwaine knows
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: about that's in the thing other than Shiiam. But yeah,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: we've gone over this hall so many times, and yeah,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: most of them are just filler. Yep, they're just filler
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: because only the one of them is black Oge. It
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: really doesn't matter, right, there's just the they are as
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: a body responding to the revelations that Agwaine is giving them.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: She's keeping an eye on Shurium, and Surium is missing
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: a finger.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, because she didn't get all of the turanngrial for
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: getting into the dream.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: She missed one because she was supposed to get twenty, right, Yeah,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: and she got nineteen. My assumption is the one. It's
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: the one that Suan has, because later Suan is tasked
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: with teaching somebody I forget who how to.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: I think the classes of tele iron Riod using eyes
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: to die like they're just trying to bring all of
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: them up up to speed, and Swan is I believe no,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: I think that was earlier she was teaching. I don't
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: think she's allowed to teach in the second iteration because
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: the hall is so mad that she kept that one
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: dreamed to on Gril, but they're also happy she kept
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: it because Shiriam had stolen the other nineteen mm hm
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: or call it. Elaine is really pissed about that because
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: she was the one that made most of them and
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: now she can't because she's too pregnant to channel consistently.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's interesting. In chapter forty five, they say
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: they're all.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Missing well, right, because one of them was missing quote
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: unquote with Leanna okay, they thought that that would have
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: gotten lost with Leanna, but.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: It's actually was with Suan. So Suan has that the
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: whole time, right.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, and then yeah, Shiyan tells
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: Missana she's they've got that. They have nineteen, so she
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: must have managed to only get eighteen of them because
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: oh right, they had already known that Leanna's had gotten
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: missing by the time that Shiryam is tasked with stealing
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: all of them. So I'm not totally sure. I kind
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: of forget the specifics of how that all went down.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: It doesn't end up mattering because she gets fucking killed.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but my assumption is that somewhere there's a missing Tehran.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: Real Yeah, definitely, I just but where it felt sure why.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: I don't think it ever pops back up as far
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: as I can tell me some.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: Other eyes that I was sneaking off with one and
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: we just never saw it happening, or he.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: Thought that that was worth he thought that it was
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: the one that Suan had, and he didn't realize that
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: the nineteen didn't include that one, and so then it's
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: just a bottle.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: I'm confused. I'm confused.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: I think it's I think it might be a bit
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: of a hole on the counting of the town real
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: or they just cut off her finger and broke it
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: just because like she didn't do it fast enough for something.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: Who knows, I.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: Don't know, but yeah, Shariam is Agwainne is watching her
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: and being made very nervous by Shiiam. Existing she doesn't
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: think about Maria as being someone to keep an eye on,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: even though she also is black Auja and will be
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: captured in this confrontation, and she.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: Knew about her ahead of time, right, she notified people
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: that she was going to be a problem.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: So no, she didn't notify anyone. No, she only told
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: Swan about Shiiam. And then in this whole scene where
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: she's thinking about how she's anxious about Shiriam, she doesn't
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: want to think about being anxious about Maria, which I
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: think is kind of strange.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: But I think it's just how close Shariam was to her.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe, or just the fact that like close, like
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: emotionally or like physically.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: Both, but emotionally really yeah.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: Sure that makes sense. So yeah, uh, Romayne is being Romayne.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: Romanda's feeling one way, Lelane's feeling the opposite way. Agwayne
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: thinks the whole thing is super petty and ridiculous after
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: all the much more intense stuff she's been dealing with
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: at the tower.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: Well, it's yeah, because Romayne was, like Romanda I think,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: was gaining power because Gwaine was gone. So now she's
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: all sulky because Agwayin's back and now she's back on
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: equal footing.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: No, no, Romanda's happy because Lelaine was finally winning.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: Uh right.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Elaine is the because her power was built on claiming
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: authority from Agwain's absence and Romanda was losing. And now
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: that Agwain's back, Lilaane has to give all that power
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: back to Agwin and she's souking hard about it.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: But if Agwain had died in the assault, she would
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: have taken over.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Basically, yeah, right, right, Romanda has a chance to get
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: some power back now that Lilaane is no longer the
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: air Apparent. So yeah, they settled down to the meeting
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: and Agwaine immediately goes for the oath rod. She does
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: not have vora'saangrial. She has the oath rod tucked in
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: her sleeve, and she swears the three o's and then
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: swears that she is not a dark end, and everyone's
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: brain starts processing, processing, processing.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: Like, wait a minute, okay, why did you say that again?
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: This is the one, This is the white Tower oath
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: rod that has the three, the number three on the
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: bottom of it.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the other one that is given one hundred eleven.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: There's one hundred and eleven, so because it's it would
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: also be three in urals. But I'm willing to go
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: with one hundred and eleven because I think there are
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: that many, because we also find out that later that
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: there's that. I think Morgan has some oth rods that
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: he found in the stasis box. So and because they
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: were they were used as a punishment device. My assumption
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: is there like one in every jail.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: Right. We went with a naming system that was like
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: maybe that was like by jurisdiction or something. I always
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: thought it was just like, oh, yes, three versus one
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: hundred eleven, but like that makes no sense either way.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: It's two different onre all right, So the one in
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: this chapter is the one with the three on it.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: And then Agwayne tells Varren's story without naming Varn, right.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: She explains it as obliquely as she can. A sister
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: came to be and confessed she was a dark friend,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: not saying the whole like deliberately did all the note
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: taking and all that just right, confessed for reasons that
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: we don't need to go into.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: Well, she doesn't want anyone looking for that book.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, I completely understand playing that close to the chest.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: And then yeah, she kind of goes through the whole
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: spiel waiting for the inevitable Scheriam embraces the source right,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: like it it's just a game of chicken, right, like
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: who's going to blink first?
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: And you're also trying to out anyone else who might
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: be scared and grab the source, right, So you're anyone
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: at that point who grabs the source you're going to
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: say is a dark friend?
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, and she knows who the dark friends are
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: in the room, so she knows. She just watch she
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: thinks she knows at least.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: Too, at least too She's I'm worried that Varon. At
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: this point, we don't know how accurate Varon is, right, right, true,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: So it's possible that Varon missed a bunch of them.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: Now we know that's not the case, but Igwayin doesn't.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and she doesn't know for a fact that any
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: of the ones I mean, aside from the ones that
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: the Black Aja Hunters caught. But like she does go
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: through the routine with shi 'ama and then think to herself, Damn,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: Varren really was right about you, Like there is a
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: small part of her that was hoping Varn was wrong, right.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: And getting her to incriminate herself on multiple levels in
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: front of I mean, it's a brilliant way of showing
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: that this person's actually a dark friend and one because
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: seizing the power looks suspicious, but it is circumstantial. But
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: then she gets her in a series of questions and
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: gets her to basically gish gallop over her oath right, right, right,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: do you con start with the forsagan? No? Do you
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: serve the dark One? No? Have you been released from
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: your owthes? No? Do you have red hair? No? Wait? Yes? Shit?
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: Right? Which, Like I am curious if the o's really
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: can't operate faster than thought.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because like the whole point of you can't lie
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: if you think you're telling the truth. So if you're
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: just responding really quickly to questions like that, you think
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: you're telling the truth because you think that's a legitimate answer.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: I don't necessarily think that's a lie. Yeah.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, everything she said before that was
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: a lie. So you know, in that regard, keeping with
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: the theme of lying, right, because all the other questions
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: she was lying some then you throw in one true
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: question and then she let But like, yeah, it's just like,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: wouldn't actually work to catch someone? Do the o's operate
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: faster than conscious thought? I don't know. Feels a little tricksy,
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: but it works for the sake of plot.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: We don't need to write, right, would someone actually choke
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: on that? Not if they had sworn then the oaths
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: or would they be able to get it out because
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: they hadn't really thought about the question? Right? Yeah?
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know the scene with the phara, it's where
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: there the woman was choking up. Was not a case
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: of thinking too fast. It was a case of being
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: told to do contradictory things. There was plenty of time
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: to think about it. But also then the way Shariam reacts,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: like the whole rest of this interaction like proves that
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: that was a fine Oh, it was a fine catch.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: It was catch, and whether or not that would have
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: caught somebody else the fact that she's like, oh you
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: got me, it's like yeah, okay, then we definitely got you, right. Yeah.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: Then she hands over the the oath throd and says, look,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: I've got an extraordinary claim. Would you like to supply
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: extraordinary counter evidence? Because I you know, I got a
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: pretty strong a mountain of evidence for this claim. You
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: wanted to defend yourself. And then Shiriam, being the you know,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: spineless coward that she is, collapses under the weight of
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: that and says, yeah, you got me.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: Cars on the table, yeah, which I mean and a
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: queen was like, yeah, the person who came to me
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: said you were.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: A leader, right, I know everything.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: I know everything, and we're gonna make you swear on
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: the oath rod. So you know, if you're not great,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: swear on the oath rod, we'll keep going. But if
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: you are, then I'm got you. And she's like, yeah,
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: you got me. It's very CSI at the end of
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: the episode when they're like here's the evidence and they're like, okay,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: you got me. Let me tell you what's like everything.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Right, which I don't think is necessarily realistic, but it
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: very much fits Shchiyam's Yeah, spineless yes, ambitious way of
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: approaching things. I believe it of Shiriam, just not of
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: people in general. And yeah, then she says, so who
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: told you that? And Agwayne just says Varren, Like I
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: kind of would have thought she would have kept Varin's
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: name out of it entirely, at least for a little longer,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: But in this context she's just like, nah, it's Varren.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: That's a good point because she's like, oh, yeah, your
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: soul's brown. And here she's like, oh, by the way,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: Varren was black. Everybody like she definitely says that in
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: front of all of the important people that Varin's the
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: one who told her, because she does. She walks around
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: it in the beginning, but then here she says it
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: out loud for everyone to hear.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't, but no, but Varren said, my name
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: will be forever associated with the black Aja, but can
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: you let the brown know what my actual mission was? So,
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: but it's funny how she walks around it at first
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: and then blows it like I don't quite know what.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: Maybe she just likes the dramatic reveal. Maybe it was
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: just for the drama. Maybe a Grain's more of a
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: showoman than we realize.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: Maybe she didn't want the name, just not to trick,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: because if they knew Varren was black, then it would
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: give them. They'd be like, oh, we are caught. But
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: I think in the beginning they're like, oh, maybe maybe
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: she doesn't know us, right.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Agwayne deposits Shiray, I'm off
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: to the side. I'll bound up, and then Lelane's like,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: so are there others and Aguen says yeah, there sure
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: are some in this very room, and Maria immediately tries
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: to bounce. But at that point, the rest of the hall,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: basically body tackles are all at once.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: They're like, oh, okay, you absolutely not. Honestly, I would
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: think nobody should embrace the source. Anyone embracing the source
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: at that point is like a risk.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: Well, Maria leaps to her feet and runs for the exit,
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: and then all the other women channel to catch her,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: and then Romanda tries to be like, really, they're both
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: from the blue. Does that mean something? And Igwen says
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: it means that statistics are real.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Ye, it means supporting me.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: So yes, they're all here, so the odds are yeah,
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: we're gonna have more blues in this camp come out
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: as black than all the other adjas. Once we emerge
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: with the Tower, it should get down into normal proportion.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: But yeah, more or less math is reel right, because.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: You have twice as many blues there, so you're gonna
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: have twice as many blue dark friends.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the other ajas are split, so you've got half
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: the dark front potential per AJA for everyone else. And
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: then she offers Romayne in order the chance to be
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: the first and second women to reswear the oaths. She
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: you know, they can't both go at the same time,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: but she does give them the honor of being number
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: one and number two on proving that they are in
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: fact just ambitious people on the side of the light
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: rather than actual dark friends. And then Agwen says, now
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: we can stop bickering about bullshit. We can just cleanse
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: ourselves and get on with the business of defeating Satan,
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: which starts with merging the tower. First we purge ourselves,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: then we merge with the tower. Then we purge the tower,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: then we figure out what the hell to do with
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: a dragon reborn. It's more or less the plan.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, two hundred some from each odd jaw seventy among
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: us here in this camp.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so roughly half here and half in the tower
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: in a vanishing margin that's elsewhere.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: It's about it's about a third to third to third, right,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: she has over two hundred seventy seventy seventy makes the
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: third to third to third Yeah yeah, yeah, so which
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: is the split of the sisters in the tower, in
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: the hall and out elsewhere. Right.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: Being a dark friend does not dictate how you're going
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: to split on other things. It just means that you
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: are everywhere. Dark friends are everywhere in every group, with
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: the exception of the Kin for some reason.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's always okay, they just yeah.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: I don't buy that, but whatever, it's canonical.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: Well it makes sense that there's no black odd Ja
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: sure in the Kin, but no dark friends.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I don't buy that, but whatever. Author's choice.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: More like a plot hole he fixed by being like,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: they just weren't any dark friends in there, because otherwise
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: the Black cot Cha would have known about them, and
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: then the whole White Tower would have known about them.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so yeah, the sisters all seem very daunted
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: by the task, but a Gwen already has a plan.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: We're gonna call in the aujas one at a time
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: and make them all go through the same PowerPoint presentation
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: and reswearing process, and we should be able to catch
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: everyone who's a dark friend. I haven't list of names
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: to check it against, but we'll also catch anyone who's
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: not on the list, which I think she says they
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: do catch one or two that Varren had missed.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: A couple, Yeah, a couple and some slip away. She
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: doesn't get them all and some slip away. Yes, But
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: think about it, per ad Jaw. That's like twelve sisters
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: per a jaw that they're trying to capture. Like, if
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: they's seventy in the tower, divide up by six, right,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: that's twelve. So there's twelve dark friends per ad Jaw,
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: Like you need the whole hall to take them prisoner.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: That's actually yeah, you need all these sisters to do
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: the work of taking I mean, hopefully, I think your
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: hall is going to be a more powerful channelers in.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: General, but sure, sure, but still it's a big ass
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: to'd be like, we're going to bring several dozen women
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: in here at a time and pick out the dozen
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: dark friends from that group.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: And I hope nothing goes bad.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: There's no chaos We're going to do that five times
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: over for the day. That's just what we do today.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: For five times. We go through this whole process over
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: and over with a large group of women looking for
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: a not insignificant fraction of them who are actually like
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: murderers and double worshippers and all that stuff.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the fact that like that group doesn't get out
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: and goes talks to the other ones and like, oh
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: what just happened? Oh well they got the dark friends
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: at like, it's kind of remarkable that that goes up.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: It's off screen, right, so we assume it goes smoothly.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: We're told it's goes smoothly. But that's one of those
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: things that I think about the logistics of how you
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: would actually do that. Smooth is not the word I'm
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: thinking of there.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: No, you just go whole lot of sealed to the
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: flame and intimidation and move too fast for people to
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: lose their adherence to their promise to be quiet. It's
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: it's risky. But yeah, it's all off screen, so we
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: don't get the drama of all the close calls that
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: inevitably happened during that process. And we do know that
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: a few people get away and Agwain doesn't know how
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: one assumes it's that lack of smoothness that you're pointing at.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: That that's how they talk about how dealing, how to
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: deal with the warders because some of them are dark friends,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: some of them aren't.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: They're all going to respond badly to their eyes, the
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: diving and prison.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: They're all going to be suicidal. Yeah, so I think
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: they say, like the legitimate one, They tell them, you
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: have an opportunity to throw yourself into the last battle
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: and basically commit suicide by attacking the dark one. Yeah.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: I believe they do put together a sort of like
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: a blood knife team essentially, like if you can just
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: hold on, if you can hold off your suicidality for
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: a few more days, we will throw you into the
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: thick of it and you can die doing something useful.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: And I think a lot of them must do that
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: because they are warders, right, they do care about the
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: tower well.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: And can you imagine being a for the light warder
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: finding out your odd your sitter sister that you were
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: dedicated your whole life to was black.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: Audja and now her lying ass has you suicidal because
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: she had to be executed. Like, Yeah, the levels of
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: betrayal there, like that would really make you question your purpose.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: M hm and everything you've ever done, everything you've ever
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: done for your whole life to support that sister you
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: realize was actually supporting the Dark One.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: Right, I mean like that might drive an honorable soldier
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: man to suicidality without the loss right bond. Right, So yeah,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: go throw yourself into the fight where the good guys
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: are losing and get them out with your last breath
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: would probably be very appealing to those guys feeling like, yeah,
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: their entire career protecting this woman was in defense of
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: the Dark One God.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: That would suck. But then what do you do with
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: the ones who are dark friends and don't want to
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: throw their lives away?
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: Like now you just kill them?
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: But how do you how do you sort them out?
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: How do you sort them out? O? Yeah, because they
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: all say I'm on the side of good. I had
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: no idea.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: Oh man, Yeah, we never get a scene that articulates
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: those troubles. But that would be difficult. That would be difficult.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know how they deal with that.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: And then I think the readout, Yeah, yeah, the readout
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: is them deciding we're going to assault the tower by tonight.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: We're going to spend the day purging ourselves, and then
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: we will this evening initiate the assault. And uh, yeah,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: that's what the readout is. So I'm gonna do that.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: Once we have cleansed ourselves, Agwayne said, then we can
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: do what must be done to reunify the eyes to die.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: You mean, yes, Lelane, Agwayne said, I mean to begin
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: an assault on Tarvalent by this evening. Pass the word
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: and tell Lord Brynn to prepare his men. The news
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: will serve to distract the black members among us and
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: will make them less likely to notice what we are doing.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: Ramanda glanced at Shiyam Andmoria, hanging in the air at
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: the side of the tent, both weeping openly, mouths bound
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: with gags of air. It must be done. I put
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: forth a motion before the hall to take the action
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: that the Omerlin has suggested. The tent grew still, then
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: slowly each woman rose to give consensus. It was unanimous.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: Light preserve us, Lane whispered, and forgive us for what
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: we are about to do. My thoughts exactly again, added mentally,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: I might add, those were in italic snot quotes.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: M h yeah, there we go pretty dramatic. This is
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: this is the consequences of Varren's quest, right, this is
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: where where we get to see all the hard work
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: that Varn did pay off. And so I think that's
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: that's what I really like about this scene is this,
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: like we are taking down the Black Adjah, We're taking
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: down Shariam, We're taking down Moria, and then you know,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: when we come back to it, it's done. But that
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: is very satisfying to be like, Okay, we can finally
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: trust the White Tower again to not be full of
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: evildoers or backstabbers. Like everyone actually wants to win the
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: last battle going into the last battle, and that was
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: so key forever for the Lights, for the side of Light.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: Can you imagine if they go in the last battle
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: and in the middle of it, half the ice that
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: eye turned on the other ones, right like at the
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: same time that the Sharin's popped in, Like that would
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: be the end of it. Yeah.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love how present Varren is in this scene.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: You know, away and thinking about Varon. I wish you
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: could have had the oth Rod, and Varren told me
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: this about you. Shariam and Varren told me that about
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: how they're organized, and it's just yeah, Varien is so
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: present being like this is what I did, this is
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: what I wanted, this is what I intended. This is
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: how Agwayne is choosing to use my information. You can
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: just feel verver it and being like, yes, continue And this.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: Was one of the suggestions, right, you try and seize
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: them all at once, like, and that's basically what she's doing.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and it's you know, the sitters know that
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: Varin is what is allowing this to all be unraveled.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: You know, we hear about how Agwayne snuck back into
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: the tower to get the riel and the books. She
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: has the books. Now, she didn't let those stay in
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: the town.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: No, mmm, no, she had the books the onrel does
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: do we know she has u vorn saw Riel?
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: I feel like she would have. No, Swan has it.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: Swan used it to get them out, so it's in
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: the camp.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: Already, that's right. Swan took it off of her, That's right.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that was a really exciting conclusion chapter. We
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: are sander lanching fully at this point. I think we're
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: sander lanching the rest of the book.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: Yep, I think we've we've got one more single chapter
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: with Rand, and then we've got a couple of double
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: headers that I think pretty much bring us right to
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: the end. Yeah yeah, let me look at where we
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: are in this book. Yeah, a Rand and then we
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: sort of we go back to Agwayne and do the
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: reunification of the tower as a double header, and then
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: just a couple of a lot of standalone veins of gold.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: Basically, I'm so excited. This has been an interesting and
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: rough book to get through in a lot of ways,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: but man, the good stuff has been really good.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm hmm. Yeah, it's it's the weirdly inconsistent in quality, right,
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: Like it feels it feels like two authors in a
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: way that I didn't notice before.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: Because it feels like a handoff that NDS off is
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: shaky and trembling and the new author is not sure
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: what he's doing.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: Yet and like yeah yeah, and there's like bits of
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: brilliance in there, but yeah, it's still not as polished
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: as I remember it being. I think is the way
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: I would I would just describe this book.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is what is. My opinion has always been
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: that this book is significantly rougher than the next two Mmm,
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: Like by the time you get to Memory of Light,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: the handoff is smooth and connect right better good, next
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: book is so much better than this book, just in
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: terms of that shakiness, Like he's he's trembling in these
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: ginormous boots that Robert Jordan left behind in this book,
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: and he is much more confident once he has one
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: book behind him and he gets to book two.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, rattling around a little bit inside those big footsteps. Yeah,
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: they're big boots.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: Robert Jordan was a very tall bad like Sanderson's tall too,
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: but like when he got brought into this, he was
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: very early on in his career.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: And the other thing to realize is like there's a
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: lot of parent going on in the background too, that's
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: happening at the same time as all of this is
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: going on, right, all parents, Like we go back to
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: his story and move up to Veins of Gold again.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: Right, and that is because it's all Sanderson. There's a
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: lot less hand off energy and a lot more just
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: Sanderson being in his element in his groove writing essentially
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: fan fic right because he had so It's like he
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: can just do his best thing without any input in Yeah, yeah,
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: so it's I'm looking forward to it. I've been enjoying
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: this book, but I am looking forward to getting out
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: of the turbulence that is the beginning of the Handoff
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: and into the more just Sanderson is finishing these books
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: portion and the.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: Last Battle is just good on itself by itself for
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: other reasons.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: You know, it's so good the last you could just
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: read the first book and the last book and just
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: skip the whole rest of the day, just be like,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: just imagine a lot of plot happens in.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: Between Good to Go the World the Memory of Light,
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: and that's it.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like someone should do it. I
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: think I think someone should do it. Someone should throw
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: themselves on that experimental sword and see what happens.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: Get a new reader podcast where it's like, okay, you
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: can read Out of the World and then and then
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: we're not really going to podcast through either world. So
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: we've done that a bunch, so read Eye the World,
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: but we are going to podcast through Memory of Light
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: for the first time with having only read Memory of
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: Eye of the World, and see what can you figure
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: out what's happened to these characters in the meantime in
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: the twelve books.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: You didn't read right, Like, how would Moraine's return make sense?
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: You didn't know that she vanished. The whole concept of
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: the list is hint content. Just that would be I
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: don't know. It's the last battle is a really really
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: amazing There's so much going on there. Anyway, this has
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: been a fun recording. Definitely probably power down and move on.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: And thank you once again to everybody who is working
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: with us through these last three Sanderson books and have
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: been with us through the oh gosh, eleven Jordan books
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: that we've talked that we've covered.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: You all are quite awesome, quite real. We appreciate you.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: We'll see you next week. Bye, Thank you. Thank you
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Please
• 1:27:03
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• 1:27:06
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• 1:27:10
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• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: podcasts from Fox and Raven Media, visit our website at
• 1:27:16
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