Latest / AI for Founders with Ryan Estes / Will VC destroy your startup?

Transcript

Will VC destroy your startup? · AI for Founders with Ryan Estes

0:00
Most VCs will ghost your pitch, but this one will tell you to
0:03
your face, you don't need our money.
0:05
Raising venture capital might actually be the worst thing you
0:07
can do for your startup right now.
0:09
Three years ago, building an MVP cost $320,000 in 18 months of
0:14
your life. Today, one week and 20 bucks,
0:17
the cost of software is collapsing to zero.
0:19
And if your only mode is the code, you don't have a mode, you
0:22
have a countdown. So here's the real question VCs
0:25
are asking. When?
0:25
You walk in the room. Not can this work, but does the
0:28
founder have distribution? Baked into their DNA.
0:31
Because the product can be copied overnight, the founders
0:34
network their obsession, their tribal knowledge of a specific
0:37
industry that can't be cloned. That's the MO.
0:40
And here's a move almost no founder is making.
0:42
Bring a distribution Co founder to the cap table before you
0:46
raise. Not as a higher, as an equal.
0:48
Give up the equity early because the founder who already has the
0:51
audience, the channel, the community will win every time
0:54
over the better product with no one to sell it.
0:56
But before you go chase a check, sit with this if you bootstrap
1:00
trapped to 500 KARR and kept 100% of your own company, would
1:04
you actually be worse off than taking that seed round?
1:06
Welcome to AI for founders. I'm Ryan Estes.
1:09
Today I talked to Carson Vest, investment associate at Denver
1:12
Ventures. In this conversation, we go deep
1:14
on what VCs are actually betting on in the age of AI, why founder
1:18
DNA matters more than your product, and how to think about
1:21
whether venture capital is even the right path for you.
1:24
If you're a founder trying to figure out your next move in a
1:26
world where AI keeps changing the game, this one's for you.
1:30
And check out the newsletter at AI for founders.co.
1:32
This is where we turn conversations like this into
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So go sign up at AI for founders.co right now.
1:49
If this episode hit different, leave us a review because every
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Five Stars is basically a Co founder application.
1:55
And hey, if you're trying to land serious podcast appearances
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That's Kickcaster by MO Burst. That said, Carson, thank you so
2:28
much for joining me. Of course, glad to be here.
2:30
Yes, this is probably podcast number six, I think at the AI
2:33
Clubhouse. Nice here in Denver.
2:36
It's great, right? It's got a good vibe.
2:39
I like it. There's the I think the Thunder
2:41
View CEO dinner is is here tonight, which that should be
2:44
cool. Hopefully they don't pour in and
2:46
make a bunch of noise. I have to shush them for the
2:48
podcast. Best of luck with that, yeah.
2:52
Exactly. Excited to talk to you.
2:55
Your your firm is Denver ventures.co.
2:57
Is that right? Yeah.
2:59
And I know you're new to the area, but old hat for as far as
3:04
like venture capital. So one, as we were talking about
3:07
before, I feel like I'm the mayor of Denver.
3:10
So I want to extend a warm welcome to you to Denver.
3:13
How's it been being in Denver? I mean it's been amazing.
3:17
Came out from LA so brought the weather with me.
3:21
I I love it just being so close to the mountains.
3:24
Absolutely no traffic and the people are just wonderful.
3:29
You can go anywhere where there's a bar or restaurant or
3:32
even just biking outside and you will walk away with three new
3:36
friends. Like everyone just friendly but
3:38
chill. It's not like an overly
3:42
ambitious crowd, so it's been nice.
3:45
Yeah, I agree. I always feel like the people of
3:46
Denver kind of inherit the best traits from everywhere.
3:49
Like definitely with the startup community, there's some
3:52
aggressiveness that you might see on the East Coast, you know,
3:55
but you get like kind of the laid backness of the West Coast,
3:58
and then you get kind of the hospitality of the South, you
4:01
know, you get all that. Agreed.
4:02
And we don't inherit anything from the Midwest because they're
4:05
all crazy anyway. Now that's where I'm from.
4:09
I think it's nice though, because it is a a city of
4:12
transplants, so I feel like you get a lot of different
4:15
perspectives, a lot of different cultures, all kind of in one.
4:19
Totally. Yeah.
4:20
Just to follow this rabbit hole a little bit, I've been really
4:23
going deep on like prehistory in Americas because, you know,
4:28
Colorado was Mexico until like 1856.
4:32
You know, it was all the way came up here, which is a better
4:34
perspective of like this region generally speaking, because all
4:38
the way up and down the Rocky Mountains there was, there's
4:40
been like long time trade routes, you know, all the way
4:44
from Canada to Mexico there and back.
4:46
So I, you know, I love the Old West for one, you know, being a
4:50
dusty Western guy myself. So like starting to expand the
4:54
reach of like, OK, you find the Comanches way down South, the
4:57
Arapahos, the Apaches, and you keep going South.
5:00
And then you ultimately end up in Mexico and you start finding
5:03
like the Aztecs. And like then before the Aztecs,
5:06
there were the Toltecs and there's all these like amazing
5:09
civilizations in Mexico, you know, the Mayans, of course, and
5:12
like all these other indigenous tribes.
5:15
But the story of the Aztecs are really interesting because they
5:18
were actually a lot of people speculate they came from kind of
5:21
this Four Corners region. Like they were, they came in and
5:24
then just like took over. They they found a lot of
5:26
success, you know, so, so culturally like Denver.
5:31
And again, I'm on my soapbox here because.
5:34
Mayor Ryan. That's right.
5:36
I'm a bit of a amateur historian and I, I love to preserve the,
5:40
the culture of Denver where you have this like, you know, you
5:43
could say Latino or Hispanic population of Colorado, where
5:47
people always think they're from somewhere else.
5:49
But it's like, no, like we've been here for a long time, you
5:52
know, and so you have this like kind of rich exchange.
5:56
But of course, you know, the difference between Aztecs and
5:58
Mexico and let's say the Arapahoe of Colorado is pretty
6:01
vast, you know, Anyway, it's, it's fascinating and there's so
6:05
much good information out there now.
6:06
It's just I can't, I can't help myself.
6:09
Definitely Jake in. I'm actually Native American, so
6:13
Apache. Are you really?
6:15
Well, Apache on my mom's side and Blackfoot on my dad's side.
6:18
Blackfoot is Ohio area, so yes, lots of lots of history there.
6:23
I wish people understood and knew more about it.
6:26
And it's actually kind of fascinating when you can see,
6:28
like if you go to New Mexico or if you go to Arizona, there's
6:31
still a lot of tribes that are there.
6:33
And so it's an interesting history, but I think it's kind
6:37
of gotten lost. Yeah, yeah, you know, and it's,
6:41
that's cool. I can tell.
6:42
I can see the cheekbones. And the the eyes.
6:45
Totally. That's neat.
6:47
Yeah. I'm just a straight gringo, you
6:51
know, white boy. I he'd have got the 23 me done.
6:54
Was like, like, please give me a sliver of something, you know.
6:58
Well, I mean no disrespect to the queen.
7:01
And the king is my family was always like, oh, we're Italian.
7:04
We're Italian. I was like, OK, OK.
7:06
And then we got it back and it was like, you're English like
7:08
99.9%. And I was like, oh, man, you
7:12
know, no disrespect to my tribe, but like, I dug into that and
7:17
the church was just really good at eradicating any kind of like,
7:20
indigenous culture from England, so.
7:23
What's interesting if when I've done 23andMe or some some other
7:28
ones that are along the same lines, it comes back as just
7:31
Asian because there's not enough data for the Native American
7:35
tribes to specify which one. It's obviously through my
7:38
lineage on both sides of my family I can know which tribe
7:42
I'm in, but without that it just says Asian as like.
7:46
Interesting. A block which?
7:48
It's not exactly so that was also disappointing on my front
7:54
when I got it back and I was like, what is this?
7:56
Yeah, Asian. Yeah, it will.
7:58
Hopefully they'll get better fidelity and I, I'm sure they
8:00
will. I mean, now they start
8:02
unleashing AI on this stuff and we'll see.
8:04
We'll see what happens, you know, But that's cool.
8:06
Yeah. I, I kind of grew up with, in my
8:10
teenage years with this, like with these Lakotas.
8:13
There's a bunch of Lakotas in in Denver and they kind of took me
8:16
under their wing. I had a ponytail so I could kind
8:18
of fit in, you know, at the time and did a bunch of ceremony and
8:22
stuff with them. And, you know, it, it's just for
8:25
people that aren't like maybe familiarized with like Native
8:28
American culture in the States. It's like they're just the best
8:30
people. So funny and warm and nice.
8:34
And in my case, they were very welcoming.
8:37
You know, I think largely because I couldn't kind of stood
8:40
on business about being a white boy because I grew up and that
8:43
was my name here in Denver, you know, So I was like, I don't
8:46
have a problem with that. But because there is a lot of
8:48
like what you call white guilt, where people see or talk to
8:53
indigenous peoples and they want to do like, I'm so sorry what my
8:56
people did for your people. And they're talking about 150
8:59
years ago. It's like, hey, man, these
9:00
people live in a model world. They're, you know what I mean?
9:02
You don't have to apologize for. But this is a common thing.
9:05
It happens, you know, But that's really cool.
9:08
Yeah. I, you're, you're going to love
9:11
it here in Denver because the biggest pow wow in North America
9:14
is here in March, actually at the end of the month.
9:15
Really. Yeah, OK.
9:17
I didn't know that. It's sick.
9:18
It's at the Coliseum. It's like a four day pow wow.
9:21
It's incredible, yeah. All right, good to know you're
9:24
the guy, the events guy. Mr. Mayor, I'm going to come to
9:28
you a little bit more. You need to know anything about
9:30
Denver. You come to me and I see that
9:32
half joking, but for the listeners of this podcast, I
9:35
have another podcast called Real Good Denver where it's all about
9:38
Denver stuff, which I'm having all my signals getting crossed
9:42
now because we have to be in professional mode now.
9:44
That's that's where we are because we're at the AI
9:47
Clubhouse and that's what we do. So let's get into it.
9:52
I would love to hear kind of your role over at Denver
9:55
Ventures and kind of what may be a normal day looks like for you.
10:00
Yeah. So I am an investment associate.
10:03
I'm basically top of funnel for our precede all the way to
10:07
Series B and we're journalists fund.
10:10
So what I like to say is I pretty much see everything out
10:12
of the sun. I'm kind of the first touch
10:14
point with all, all of our founders hop on initial calls,
10:17
kind of just get a direction and a sense of who you are and what
10:20
your vision is and then bring it to my partners and we go from
10:23
there. So cool.
10:25
That seems like such a fun job. I mean, it's probably very
10:28
similar to what I'm doing as well.
10:30
Just a big swath of a bunch of people doing a bunch of stuff
10:33
right now. It's the beginning of March.
10:36
I would say we're post open claw hangover, you know, and now
10:42
we're moving into whatever else agentic AI looks like for
10:46
company. So I'd love to to hear your take
10:48
like right now tip of the spear what what are the deals that you
10:53
are seeing coming in and maybe you know what is really
10:56
interesting to you and what looks savoury on an opportunity
11:00
right now? I mean, I think there's so much
11:03
with AI right now. There's an influx of that,
11:06
obviously, and there should be. I think we're finally getting
11:10
towards this tipping point from the infrastructure layer that
11:14
was necessary with an AI, everything with the models, the
11:17
GPU's, all the wrappers. And I think we're finally
11:21
transitioning more so to companies that are understanding
11:25
what the consumer wants. And it's going to be more, you
11:28
know, workflow automation, vertical AI integration.
11:33
It's going to be companies that completely take away a pain
11:37
point where you don't even have to think about it anymore.
11:41
And so I say this because there's two distinctions.
11:42
There was the one with the chat bots, like Harvey is a great
11:46
example, absolutely. Still just disrupting the law
11:50
side of things. But I think that Harvey isn't
11:52
going to be the winner takes all because we don't function as
11:57
chat bots like humans, don't like to interact, don't like to
12:01
have to always type. We just like things to happen in
12:03
the background. And I think there's going to be
12:05
a lot of companies that similar to granola that kind of just
12:10
take everything, all the the miscellaneous mundane tasks that
12:15
you don't like to do just in the background just does it.
12:18
You don't even have to think about it.
12:19
You don't even have to like plan or try and like plug it in.
12:22
It just like works seamlessly with all of your other
12:24
integration tools. And that is what is more
12:27
exciting. And so that's the direction that
12:29
we're really looking for to see. Cool.
12:31
Yeah. What's really sticky and what's?
12:35
I. Tried, I tried granola, you
12:36
know, it was pretty good. Is there something I'm missing
12:39
with that? It's like a note taker, but it's
12:40
not in the meetings, which is kind of sweet.
12:42
So it's kind of like the sneaky note taker.
12:44
Yes, and then it integrates with all your CRMS.
12:48
But I think what's great about granola as well as you can
12:51
program it to be able to ask certain questions like during a
12:55
meeting. So if you're trying to get a
12:56
sense, if a founder has a certain Moat, you can program it
13:00
to, to be looking for those qualifying questions.
13:03
And it can help prompt certain questions if they say something
13:06
and you want to expand on it. So it's something like that that
13:10
it's, it's, it's almost like your analyst, no taker, of
13:13
course, but it, it gives you more without even having a
13:17
second thought. Yeah, which I think is powerful.
13:20
And it's it's something that I'm never going to not use now
13:23
because it's like a little sidekick totally to to help
13:26
enhance all the meetings I take. Oh my gosh, that's also kind of
13:29
like the the challenge of doing these in person podcasts because
13:32
I'm used to having like all my notes, all the note taker stuff,
13:37
all that, you know, ready to go. So it's like, oh, can you, can
13:40
you talk to someone normal Ryan, are you, can you pull that off?
13:42
I'm like, I don't think I can. Let's talk about indigenous
13:45
America. No, but it's it's very true.
13:49
And I think that's the other side of things.
13:52
Zoom Google meets. It's efficient, obviously, but
13:57
there's nothing better than meeting someone in person.
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14:56
Now back to the show. And I feel like you, we
14:59
definitely miss that over the screen nowadays, but it, it is a
15:03
reality when you step into a room and you kind of have to
15:06
hype yourself up of being like, can I talk to people?
15:08
And then I look at my calendar, I'm like, I've been talking to
15:11
people from 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM all day, every day.
15:14
But it's it's different when you can just press on and press off
15:17
versus standing in a room full of people.
15:20
Totally. And to your point, maybe the
15:22
direction of where what's exciting and AI is, I was
15:25
talking to a guy who I probably spoke to, I don't know, a dozen
15:29
note taker apps, maybe you have two.
15:31
And it was a new one. And I was like, hey, man, can
15:33
you do this, put this on the product road map?
15:35
Because basically, you know, I'm doing interviews all day long or
15:40
sales calls or whatever. And one thing that I find from
15:43
listening to the podcast, one, I have a terrible voice.
15:47
The other thing is that I miss juicy Nuggets sometimes because
15:53
I'm trying to think of like where I want to take the
15:55
conversation or whatever. So people will talk.
15:58
And you, if you listen to this podcast, if you hear me say
16:00
like, yeah, that's really cool. That's basically, I didn't even
16:03
hear what the last two sentences the person said.
16:06
Yeah, 'cause I'm planning ahead, you know, which is, I think
16:08
common in conversation. And also it's a part of what I
16:12
like about podcasting is that there's a charming patina of
16:16
amateurism. Like it's people trying to wing
16:18
it. But I was like, you know, I
16:20
tried to build this tool and didn't have success.
16:22
But I was like, you know, if you have a note taker app, I want
16:24
something that is like fact checking me, giving me
16:27
opportunities. If somebody says something
16:30
that's particularly interesting or dense, like to offer like
16:33
follow up questions, like good journalistic questions, that
16:36
would be really cool because now I can really let go.
16:39
I'm not trying to like hold on to like the direction of this
16:41
conversation. I can just be like in the
16:44
conversation and if I if I stumble whatever, then I can see
16:47
all this stuff kind of being provided for me, you know, So
16:50
that might be an analogous to like other podcasts or other AI
16:54
tools that are going to be able to do like a little bit of like
16:57
predictive generation and like really be helpful.
17:02
So that's cool to hear. Now, one thing that is
17:05
interesting about this place in time too is that if you're on X
17:09
or you're building with four terminals open and you have 2
17:13
Mac minis with your open claw instances running, you feel like
17:17
you're trying to catch up. There's a real like, Oh my God,
17:21
I can't get enough done, which for me ends up being like 10 and
17:26
11 hour work days every day. It's very fun.
17:29
I love it. But also the the reassuring part
17:33
is that I think it's like a fraction of 1% of Americans
17:36
actually pay for an AI product right now.
17:40
So we are still really early. How do you feel?
17:44
Do you feel like there's pressure to get the the next
17:48
thing? Like how, how are you dealing
17:49
with kind of this unbelievable pace that we're working out
17:52
right now? I think whenever we're looking
17:56
at a new company and if we're we're staying on the narrative
17:58
of AI, it we're looking for as A, does the technology work and
18:03
B is their demand. And with that demand, you can
18:07
have a lot of influx of customers, but the real key is
18:10
retention. How long are people staying on
18:13
your platform? Are there renewals?
18:15
You know, how many times do they go on every single day or every
18:19
single month? Because the reality is there's
18:22
new tools every single day and you can get that freemium trial
18:27
and then you can move on to the next.
18:29
And the next day there's an integration for the exact tool
18:31
that was going to charge you, you know, 799.
18:34
And so for us, you know, AI has been amazing for the the
18:41
margins, but when you have too high of margins, we're kind of
18:46
questioning that because we're expecting you to have high
18:49
inference costs. And that's a tale to us saying
18:53
that your users are on your platform, they're using it
18:56
actively and obviously that's like eating into your cost.
19:01
So that's how we're kind of looking at it.
19:03
And I think that also plays into you can make a lot of things
19:07
with AI and that's what we're saying right now.
19:09
But do people ultimately want it because there's so many tools,
19:13
but like a lot of people just want the basic functionalities
19:16
done so that they can take back more time for themselves.
19:20
And I feel like this like overcrowding of tools is
19:23
actually stressing people out a lot more and actually supporting
19:26
them. So that's another factor of, you
19:29
know, what are people saying at the end of the day, is this
19:31
something they actually need or you just trying to like shove it
19:34
down their throats is something that they're going to want?
19:37
Yeah, or you know what a lot of people do.
19:39
And I was like, I'll just build my own note taker now.
19:42
Exactly. You know, which is like I got
19:44
pretty close to my note taking and I was like, I don't want to
19:47
Polish this up. Like just somebody, I'll pay 10
19:50
bucks a month, you know, somebody make this for me.
19:53
But it's interesting because, you know, three years ago I
19:56
spent 18 months and about 320,000 to get an MVP.
20:01
That was fantastic, but I had to go through.
20:04
Two nefarious agencies to get it done before I finally found the
20:07
person that could build it and then and then it was OK.
20:10
Same software now cost me a week and 20 bucks.
20:16
Which is. Amazing.
20:17
It's staggering, you know, And so you know from your chair what
20:21
I'd be worried about. It's like, OK, if the cost of
20:23
software is essentially going to zero and anybody will be able to
20:27
build anything with any kind of idea.
20:30
Like if you're making a bet and you guys are doing you said
20:33
series B rounds and yeah, I mean, you're making a big bet,
20:36
then in some cases, like what is the assurance?
20:39
I mean, is it it it's the the distribution, it's the
20:42
engagement that like the brand loyalty that people are the
20:46
companies. I mean, series B is obviously
20:48
far different. But you know, if you're looking
20:50
at a seed company, like what do you want to see in a software
20:53
company right now that you know, somebody with a clawed account
20:56
can't just knock off, right? Yeah, Yeah.
20:59
I think models are going to be everywhere.
21:04
Already pricing has gone down. So model is just like 1 aspect.
21:10
I think to your your point, distribution is something we're
21:12
obviously looking at in data. Do you have a Moat in that
21:16
industry somehow, some way that you're gathering more of that?
21:20
Is there defensible IP now? Is there?
21:23
There are companies trying to create that defensible IP, but
21:29
politics and regulations say a bit different, so tough to
21:34
create IP around that. So we are looking more towards
21:37
the distribution front of how are you going to get in front of
21:40
people faster and why are people going to stay with you at the
21:43
end of the day. Yeah, OK.
21:48
What's the most successful distribution channel right now?
21:50
How? What companies are doing it
21:52
well? Oh.
21:59
I don't know that we actually don't have a set standard for
22:04
for what's working the best. I would say we've actually been
22:10
kind of cautious around certain AI companies for this exact
22:14
reason of things can kind of get in, get eaten pretty quickly at
22:19
that precede seed stage. What we're really looking for is
22:24
some type of Moat with the founder.
22:26
So for Denver Ventures, our whole thesis is around what we
22:29
like to call founder DNA. So we're looking for individuals
22:32
that have had previous companies, have had previous big
22:35
tech experience, AIML, things like that or some type of
22:41
channel experience. And we found, you know, with
22:45
those individuals that is where the distribution comes from,
22:49
from their previous network. And so that's what we're really
22:53
digging into with the the people that we have.
22:55
But that's an interesting question.
22:57
I'll dig into it. Yeah, Yeah.
22:59
OK. I would love to get into your
23:02
mind a little bit of how you're judging opportunities and deals.
23:07
And so I, I have this product that I've been kicking around
23:10
for a while and I want to pitch it to you.
23:13
Oh boy, here we go. And then hear how you'd think
23:16
about it and how you would judge this unbelievable opportunity.
23:20
I mean between you and. Me.
23:21
Right here. This.
23:22
This is a Unicorn in the making, I'm telling you.
23:26
I mean, we are at Ideas, the AI Builder Club in Denver.
23:30
That's right, it's got a. Great, that's.
23:32
Right. It's got a great AI story.
23:34
It's it's got a Tam of at least how many Americans are there?
23:38
350 million. Every single American's going to
23:42
need this. OK, OK, I I need to come up with
23:45
a good name, but right now I'm going to call it Mailbox Allied
23:48
Tech Supreme XL ELLC. OK, has a good ring to it.
23:53
Yeah, it's pretty snappy. So what it does is it's a
23:58
mailbox with AI. OK, So what it does is when the
24:02
mailman or person or person puts in the mail, it is going to scan
24:07
all the mail, take a picture and then ascertain who the CEO is of
24:12
that company and then send them emails from a swarm of 1000 AI
24:16
agents like nasty emails about why are they sending mail.
24:21
That's the first step. Second step, it's going to
24:24
actually pull the mail into like like a, a goo and then print
24:32
like nice stationary and then write your mother a a, a letter
24:37
about a fun anecdote you remember from childhood and how
24:41
much you love your mom and send it to her.
24:44
OK. OK, that's the idea.
24:46
Awesome, this this has been in development for a long time.
24:50
It is mentally, mentally, I'm still looking for partners on
24:53
the hardware to help make this happen.
24:55
But so you get a pitch, how do you begin?
24:59
Kind of like testing the deal or like gauging interest.
25:03
Yeah. So initially I'm looking at your
25:06
background. So I'm seeing Denver mayor.
25:09
I'm like, wow, I'm impressed. This guy, this guy, yeah, I'm
25:15
looking at, you know, all the different podcasts that you have
25:17
your ability to be able to communicate your vision or just
25:20
talk to people, which is a superpower, especially nowadays.
25:24
And so checking out all of that, that's first stop shop because I
25:28
want to see. First Stop is the founder.
25:30
Even before the product, you'd be like product, I don't maybe I
25:32
don't know that much about it, but.
25:34
First stop is the founder, especially for the precede seed
25:36
stage. Now if we get to the later
25:38
stages, it's a different question, obviously.
25:40
Diligence is totally. Different economics exactly, but
25:44
the zero to 1, it's all about the person.
25:47
So if you can't sell me, how are you going to sell a team?
25:51
How are you going to sell a new customer?
25:53
Especially when like everyone is just getting sold 24/7, 365 S
25:58
Initially I'm looking at you, then I'll dig into the deal
26:03
itself. If you're more of a seed stage
26:06
and you've raised previous funding, getting a sense of the
26:10
the other investors on the cap table, understanding, you know,
26:13
who you've already kind of approached for that conversation
26:17
and then ultimately looking at the the deal itself.
26:20
And back to our previous questionings, you know, is there
26:24
data? Is there some distribution, is
26:28
there's some type of leverage that they have or is this like
26:30
completely new something I've never even seen?
26:34
Often times, like if I don't know the space quite well, I
26:37
will still hop on a call with a founder just to get to know them
26:41
live as I can and just kind of poke around, get a sense.
26:45
It's not like a a live pitch. You know, honestly, my favorite
26:49
quick calls are not the ones that you go slide by slide.
26:52
It's you just showing your excitement and kind of throwing,
26:56
vomiting your knowledge onto me because that shows me that you
27:00
are all in that. You are super excited about this
27:02
and it's been something you've been thinking about for a while.
27:05
Cool. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
27:07
You know, the distribution part is really interesting.
27:09
I, I just, my buddy Josh broke it down for me the other day
27:13
where he said like, you know, I will not entertain a deal when
27:17
this dude's hilarious because he launched 4 companies last year.
27:20
He's like, if it doesn't have distribution on the cap table,
27:23
if it doesn't have defensible IP, and if it does, if I don't
27:28
have domain expertise in that, I'm not getting involved, which
27:31
I thought was like, that's a great idea and makes it simple.
27:34
If people are like looking for checks.
27:36
It's like, dude, I don't know anything about mailboxes.
27:38
That's why they come to me because I know about these
27:41
mailboxes. It's slash AI slash e-mail
27:45
sending or real mail sound sending.
27:48
So for, for founders, let's say I, I think usually the passion
27:53
is going to be there. If they're if they're showing up
27:55
in your office, you know, they're going to have that
27:57
domain expertise and you see a lot of really cool products,
28:01
especially in AI that are super niche.
28:04
You know, what I'm really interested in now is like these
28:06
like pre digital databases that are unstructured that you're
28:10
like, dude, like this is we can capitalize on this file cabinet
28:13
in a major way. There's a lot of cool
28:14
opportunity there. So they've got that defensible
28:18
IPI don't know if if you can have that, if you can in some
28:23
way great. But I think a lot of founders
28:26
that I talked to working in like founder LED marketing for years
28:29
and years. Is that distribution is that
28:31
tough one, You know, so if you've got a great network that
28:35
you can find design partners and your network is, you know,
28:38
enterprise great because 1 license might set the whole
28:41
company good for a year or whatever.
28:43
But if you're not, if it's B to C or if it's like B to B, but
28:46
you don't really have that network, that's a really
28:49
interesting like kind of validation point of like, should
28:52
I pursue this if I don't have personal distribution in this
28:56
area and it's on the cap table, which is to say, maybe a
29:00
question for you. Are you seeing founders come in
29:02
that say, I've got the, the, the technology, I've got the, the
29:06
domain expertise, but I'm actually bringing in this person
29:10
as like a distribution Co founder and we're giving them
29:13
10% and they're going to have a stake.
29:15
This is like, kind of like what celebrities do all the time,
29:18
right? Yeah.
29:19
Do you see a lot of that? Honestly no, but I do wish there
29:24
was more of that. I would say it is typically a
29:29
part of their plan to be able to hire somebody after the race for
29:33
that position. But I would enjoy seeing more Co
29:36
founders already in that mix because then it makes the
29:38
investment way more promising from the beginning.
29:42
What we typically see is, you know, founders that went to
29:45
school together or had, you know, previous companies
29:47
together or worked at the same company, which is also a very
29:50
strong standpoint because it it shows you've worked with them
29:53
before. But no, not on the distribution
29:56
front. I would say they mostly will try
29:59
and find an investor to be that partner in the beginning before
30:04
they can add on another Co founder.
30:06
Yeah. And then they're kind of going
30:09
to a creator with their hand out, like, please help me, yes,
30:13
please help me, yes. But I think the, the other part
30:17
that I do look through and especially with this AI boom is
30:21
do you need VC funding, especially at the precede seed
30:25
side side of things. And with all these inference
30:28
costs going down and what not, it is a big question.
30:32
Like if you can bootstrap your business to 1,000,000 ARR, you
30:39
know, cut that in half 500,000 ARR.
30:41
Like I, I think founders need to take a step back and register
30:47
what success looks like for them because we are an amazing
30:50
opportunity for people to make millions of dollars with barely
30:56
any technical background. You know, you the opportunities
30:59
are endless, but VC isn't always the best answer.
31:02
Yeah. So I think at the earliest
31:04
stages, founders also should register that of.
31:07
You know, just because you can raise VC doesn't mean you
31:10
should. Yeah, totally.
31:12
Now more than ever, you know, I think it goes down to to
31:16
lifestyle too, because I mean, if you're the type of person and
31:19
maybe people are a split of this, where you're like, I have
31:22
a life changing vision. I need 60 million to put this
31:25
into play. You're like, OK, well, let's
31:28
let's see how you can get there. But then venture capital is
31:30
there for you, is there for that.
31:31
But like, if you're finding like these little siloed data sets
31:35
for a little, you know, microcosm of like people that
31:37
will you can just take over the whole industry.
31:39
It's like why, you know, like go do it, you know, and this is
31:44
kind of like maybe the the predicament musicians are
31:47
finding too, because, you know, it used to be that like the
31:51
labels were the distribution you, you get signed, you get a
31:54
deal, you know, then they can like put you into target and
31:58
whatever. But now it's like labels aren't,
32:00
are, are barely have a function right now because it's like it's
32:04
up to the artist to find the distribution 1st and then
32:08
they're just picking up on trends so that they'll go find,
32:10
you know, the the newest sound on, on TikTok and they're
32:13
offering them a check. They're like, why would I give
32:15
you 80% of my revenue when I I'm hitting right now by myself?
32:20
It's very similar. So you know it.
32:23
What does a conversation look like with a founder?
32:25
If you're like, I don't think you need us.
32:28
I'll just be straight up and I'll explain.
32:31
And like, that can be difficult here, but it's not my choice.
32:37
They can go to another VC if they'd like, but it's more so of
32:40
the questioning of why. Like why truly do you want VC
32:44
money? And some of them honestly were
32:47
just like, I thought it was just the next step.
32:50
Like I'm I'm seeing these other founders.
32:52
I had a friend that just raised 3 million and he started a
32:56
company 3 months ago. And so just seems like the
33:01
trend. And right now there's a lot of
33:04
capital flowing around. So it's quite easy to be able to
33:07
get money for your investments. And so that's what I've been
33:11
seeing. But if you kind of take a step
33:12
back and you just ask the question of do you really need
33:15
this right now? Yeah, people might take a step
33:17
back and be like, well, I'm, I'm doing just fine.
33:20
Maybe not. Maybe not.
33:23
Yeah. And there's just so much or on
33:25
Bootstrap founders. Oh my God.
33:28
I was talking to, what was his name, softwarefinder.com.
33:31
Bootstrap. They triple, triple, double
33:33
doubled in four years. And he they're doing like 30
33:36
million in revenue annually. I'm like, bro, what?
33:40
Amazing. Just keep it that way.
33:43
Just keep it moving. Oh yeah, he's keeping it moving.
33:45
But that was a fun conversation because he was also like broken.
33:51
He had recovered, but he was like December 2025 as a few
33:54
weeks ago. He was like, I had a major thing
33:57
issue and I was kind of prodding a little bit as one does.
34:01
I was like, yeah, bro, I was like, that's like 4 weeks ago,
34:03
man You OK? And he's like, I think so.
34:06
But also encouraging to hear that like, like Biggie said,
34:11
more money, more problems is real.
34:13
You know, even that kind of accelerated growth, you know, in
34:16
a few years going from zero to 400 employees, it's like that
34:20
that could break you too. I do, you know, I, I would, I
34:24
would like to feel that flavor of breaking.
34:27
It seems like a a particularly delicious What kind of
34:30
suffering? That's such an interesting way
34:34
to put it. I cannot say I'm in the same
34:37
boat, but yeah, being a founder is one of the craziest things
34:41
you could ever decide to do in life.
34:43
Yeah, it it just doesn't make sense that all odds are stacked
34:47
against you. It's really, really hard.
34:49
It's yeah, yeah, very difficult. But the people that are in it
34:54
for a bigger reasoning, they have a a stronger why the ones
34:58
that are obsessed over it. You can't help it.
35:01
You're kind of doomed. I mean, that's the one thing I I
35:04
do love about this show is I, I get to feel a little camaraderie
35:07
and when I can sense somebody's like suffering, I want to get
35:11
inside it so I can pat him on the back a little bit, but also
35:14
alleviates my own. I'm like, I know, man, it's so
35:18
hard. It's horrible sometimes.
35:20
But what, what other choice do we have?
35:22
We have to do it. It's compel.
35:25
Yeah, it's a it's a crazy business, but so fun, especially
35:29
right now. I just feel super reinvigorated
35:32
in like the last 12 months. It's just like, wow, it's the
35:35
speed is a little overwhelming, but boy, the opportunity is just
35:38
endless. I also love how many communities
35:42
have come together because of it.
35:44
Like, I mean, where we're sitting today, it's a great
35:46
example of it and the willingness of people to be able
35:49
to go back to, to the first brick and be able to explain it
35:54
to somebody so that they can start and they can see how fast
35:58
everything happens. Like I, you know, 2, two
36:01
companies have already come out of here that I've been looking
36:04
at that are now raising like significant capital.
36:07
And if anyone comes in, they're like, I don't, I don't even know
36:10
what AI is. You know, I didn't even know
36:12
what it stood for until last week.
36:14
And they'll just sit down there like, hey, let me, let me
36:16
download Claude for you. And I, I think that was missing
36:20
a lot. And so having that sort of
36:23
community element is kind of reinvigorated everybody.
36:27
And shout out to Danny, man Danny Newman has put this
36:30
together and this is really unique.
36:32
It's really special. The, you know, a year ago there
36:35
was like 10 of us at Danny's coffee shop over off Colfax.
36:40
And I showed up kind of begrudgingly.
36:42
I was like, I'll go, but like, I don't really do the meet up
36:44
stuff, but it's like 3 blocks from my house.
36:47
So sure. And then, you know, then I found
36:50
out it was Danny Newman. It was an absolute Denver
36:51
legend. You want to talk about the
36:53
mayor? He's the mayor.
36:55
He's the guy. I'm the deputy mayor.
36:58
I'm just waiting for his his hikes.
37:01
Everyone has been telling me about it.
37:02
His mountain founder hikes, and so I've been.
37:04
Waiting. Yeah.
37:06
I'm not on the short list. How'd that happen?
37:08
I'm going to have to ask what's going on with that.
37:10
But I mean, he's preserved some Denver landmarks that were
37:16
critical to my childhood and development.
37:19
So I will love him forever for that.
37:21
And this place. So it starts as a a meet up, you
37:24
know, every other Wednesday, you know, a year ago and half a
37:28
dozen 10 people showing up, like, hey, did you know you
37:31
could do this? And just like, it's kind of like
37:33
right when kind of some of the vibe coding tools were starting
37:35
to take root to 12 months later, I think there's like 400 people
37:39
on that list. And like this place is there's
37:40
150 people here every Wednesday. It's so cool and like you said,
37:45
everyone is like super supportive and and like
37:49
welcoming and helpful and you know, the WhatsApp chat is
37:53
amazing. It's so cool.
37:55
And it's an overall sentiment of let's break things, yeah, and
37:59
we'll figure it out totally. And I think that's powerful when
38:03
you get a lot of people OK at failing altogether.
38:06
Yeah, yeah, you're. Going to move Ted tabs faster.
38:08
100% and then like, how did you do that?
38:10
You're like, dude, let me show you boom, boom, boom, boom,
38:12
boom. And then, yeah, it's just, it's
38:14
it's pretty cool. The I've I've been waiting to
38:16
demo. I haven't demoed in a couple
38:18
months because I did get a little bit blasted.
38:20
My last demo, people were like, what about this, this, this,
38:24
this? It's like I kind of got, I kind
38:25
of got jacked. Hey, speak of the devil.
38:32
So so, yeah, shout to Danny for this great place.
38:36
How about you, Carson? What's your experience with like
38:39
projects, building companies, building anything?
38:43
Yeah, back story on me, my dad was an entrepreneur himself.
38:49
So I kind of grew up, you know, living under the the man of the
38:52
myth, the legend. And so, you know, I just
38:55
remember very early on, very late nights of the office, I'm
38:59
one of three, one of four kids. So we all would just be there
39:03
while my parents were were grinding late at night.
39:06
And so I think I always had this entrepreneurial sense, loved it
39:11
growing up. Shark Tank was like my go to.
39:14
I wanted to watch on everything. Who's your favorite and why is
39:18
it Barbara? It's not Barbara.
39:20
Oh, OK. No, I like Mr. Wonderful.
39:23
Me too. I did.
39:24
He's just so direct. He says it how it is and he gets
39:28
the deal he wants. And I think there's so much
39:29
power and confidence in that. Yeah, but that's probably the
39:32
the tough pick. Nice.
39:34
But yes, so ended up, you know, going to school, studying
39:39
finance one to understand kind of the insurance and outs on
39:42
that side of things, but I knew I wanted to go into the startup
39:46
VC space. So ultimately what went into to
39:51
one startup, it was more into the the energy side of things.
39:55
Did that for about a year and a half, loved it.
39:57
Learned a lot about regulations about government and and how
40:01
that can affect a company within itself.
40:04
And an international company, so got a sense of working with
40:08
teams from many different regions and how cultures can
40:11
kind of impact the overall startup itself.
40:14
And then I went into to VC, absolutely adored what I was
40:19
doing, doing what I am doing now today.
40:23
Went to the dark side, tried banking for a little bit just to
40:26
get a sense, but I did it out in San Francisco, found myself in
40:29
more VC events than I did banking.
40:31
And I was like, OK, I understand where I got to go.
40:34
And so ultimately I found my way back and don't see myself
40:38
leaving. Amazing, amazing.
40:40
And just to talk about you personally, I've only known you
40:43
a couple of weeks maybe, but like you've done a big credit to
40:49
like this community too. Like you're all over the place.
40:52
So like, I don't forgot how we were introduced.
40:54
And so we get on a call and I was particularly manic that day.
40:57
I don't know why sometimes I get that way, but but you know, you
41:03
said something that really stuck with me because my daughter's in
41:05
college studying finance and I was like, hey, you know, she's
41:09
the same. She's got the entrepreneurial
41:11
spirit, you know, she was saved by COVID.
41:13
Did I tell you the story? No, just a quick, quick branch
41:17
here. So when she was at COVID hits
41:21
what, March 2020, I think she was in 6th or 7th grade and she
41:25
had created a scrunchy business. So she she's like, dad, how
41:31
should I do the scrunchy business?
41:32
I was like, well, what you're not going to do is make
41:34
scrunchies. I was like, what you should do
41:36
is get some different fabrics and go down there and do
41:38
pre-orders and then dependent on demand, then you make the
41:42
scrunchies. So she went to school and I
41:45
think she was like $2.00 for one, $3 for two, and she sold
41:48
like $200 worth of scrunchies. That's awesome.
41:51
I was like, dude, yes, I was like, that's awesome.
41:53
OK, OK, let's go get what do we need?
41:55
A sewing machine? Let's go get a sewing machine.
41:58
So we went to get a sewing machine, got one, come back, get
42:02
a little tutorial going. How hard can making a scrunchie
42:05
be? Turns out it is not easy to take
42:09
fabric and put like a thing in there and like do a circle like
42:12
that. It's really hard.
42:13
And so there were, this is like, you know, like February 23rd,
42:18
2020. And like me and her, I'm getting
42:21
pissed 'cause now I got to try and make scrunchies and, and
42:23
she's baking them, but it's slow going.
42:25
And she's like, dad, I have all of these, these pre-orders.
42:29
I was like, well, here's what you can do.
42:31
You just tell them it's going to take some time.
42:32
There's some manufacturing delays, you know, like it.
42:36
We'll just, we'll just, we'll just bang these out.
42:39
We'll, we'll bang them out. We'll get through it.
42:40
So that it was like a week later, it was like schools
42:43
cancelled for COVID. And she was just kind of like,
42:45
oh. My gosh.
42:47
Capture couple 100 bucks. That is awesome.
42:51
That is a top tier story. So, so, you know, so she had a
42:55
little taste of the entrepreneurial bug early and
42:57
she, she and her brother used to like make a mint shoveling
43:01
sidewalks back when we used to, it used to snow here, believe it
43:03
or not. So anyway, so she was like that.
43:06
So but, and she's studying finance and she has interest in
43:08
VC. And so, you know, I asked you
43:10
like, Hey, what, what is the best thing that she should be
43:13
doing right now? And you're like, she needs to be
43:15
AI native. And and after that, I scheduled
43:19
a weekly meeting on Wednesdays where she and I sit down and I
43:23
just show her tools and show her how to use it and really talk a
43:27
lot about what does it mean to be AI native?
43:30
Like how are you approaching problems with AI first kind of
43:33
attitude. And then that's LED her to build
43:36
this like really cool fitness app and she's building like all
43:39
these tools. Amazing.
43:40
Yeah. So I want to thank you for that.
43:42
Of course, yeah, I think everyone should.
43:44
And everyone talks about it, and I'm sure every single founder on
43:48
this podcast has some sort of AI integrated.
43:52
But it is the future. And I think people can get
43:57
scared about it. They could be nervous about it.
44:00
But ultimately, if you just sit down for an hour and just start
44:04
messing around with it and just talking to it, like you will be
44:08
able to see how fast and how easy a lot of these things are.
44:12
And adoption is just like that, but it's staying on your toes
44:15
because of all the tools that we've been talking about. 5% so
44:20
and then a career in VC now I, I think you're unique at least to
44:24
what I've seen where you are very community involved.
44:28
You know, that might be like a new wrinkle to like VC and maybe
44:31
it's because it is so frothy and there's a lot of competition and
44:35
you know, they're kind of looking for those kind of folks.
44:38
So what is kind of like expectation on your side as far
44:43
as like what are your deliverables as it's like you're
44:45
doing top of funnel? Do you need to be like finding
44:49
like those 10 products? Is there a little bit of
44:51
pressure for you to like, get it in the door?
44:54
Of course, I mean, I like any other job, it's glorified SDR,
44:59
but the community side of things, I think that is just a
45:04
little bit more innate to who I am.
45:06
I've always kind of valued community.
45:08
I mean, everyone can say that your your network is your net
45:10
worth, but I just think that shaping new community, and
45:14
especially since I'm new here to Denver is going to be everything
45:19
for me moving forward. It's people that are introducing
45:22
me, not only just my my friends to new companies, to new Co
45:27
workers in the future. And I just appreciate meeting
45:29
people and I think, you know, I'm an extrovert.
45:33
I just want to be in the room and I think we've missed out a
45:38
lot on that and people are starting to realize how much
45:41
they're, they miss that day-to-day interaction.
45:43
So I think that's just me. I like to to go out, see how I
45:46
can help, see what I can learn, because you know, there's only
45:50
so much you can do behind closed doors. 100% you know, that's a,
45:54
that's another thing that I think my daughter's really kind
45:56
of figuring out too. Is that like, you know, it is
45:59
really important to like, and it's the fun part of business
46:02
really. Like how can I really help you?
46:04
And like, if I can make introductions to people all the
46:06
time, it's just like, OK, tip of the tongue, you need to talk to
46:08
this person, this person, this person, I'm doing it all the
46:10
time. And then you feel kind of like a
46:12
hub where people are going to be like, I don't know who I need to
46:15
talk to, but I'll just call Ryan and see what's up, you know?
46:18
And I'm like, oh man, I got you. Actually, I talked to this guy 2
46:20
days ago, like blah, blah, blah, blah.
46:21
You know what I mean? And it's just, it's a fun place
46:24
to come from a position of giving because it's like, it's
46:29
a, it's a driver, you know, it's energizing.
46:32
Exactly. It feels good.
46:33
Yeah. And I mean, I just, I caught up
46:36
with an old friend and I actually connected him with his
46:39
current girlfriend and they've been together for seven years
46:42
and they're about to get married.
46:43
And he's. I've.
46:44
I thank you every single day for that.
46:47
And something so simple that I just was like you guys, I think
46:50
I think you would work well together and like that changed
46:53
everything for them. And so I think it goes a long
46:56
way. It does.
46:57
It's the best. Yeah.
46:59
Yeah. Cool.
47:00
OK, so. But to your point with the VC
47:04
and being frothy, I do agree and I think VC is changing a lot and
47:08
I think that there is money in a lot of places.
47:10
And at the end of the day, I think you the big names do say a
47:14
lot on a cap table. But ultimately you want people
47:17
that you can trust. You want people that you can
47:20
call in the middle of the night when shit sit in the fan.
47:24
You want people that you know may or may not be on your board,
47:27
but are going to take care of you and be there by your side.
47:30
And so I don't know, I think founders should also take that
47:34
seat of who do you actually enjoy talking to?
47:37
Who's believing in you, but who's going to put you in your
47:39
right place of, you know, telling you when you should
47:42
probably put on a different hat or think about something
47:45
different. Like strategically I think there
47:48
is a lot more power in founders hands nowadays that they should
47:52
probably consider that because you don't want to be backed by
47:56
people that don't truly believe in you.
47:58
Or that you just don't vibe with.
48:00
There's different, like there's a different energy for different
48:03
people. I can say that I probably had
48:05
like. 4. Five people that I would
48:09
consider not not mentors because there was no relationship like
48:13
that. But I'm like, I want to be like
48:14
that. Yeah.
48:15
And that's four or five out of thousands, you know, where they
48:19
have something that I'm like that you're doing it the way I
48:22
want to do it. Like let me model myself after
48:25
you. If you know, Denver Vent Venture
48:27
has like kind of a a thread that runs through it.
48:30
What are those attributes of like the partners and the people
48:34
that work there? Like what?
48:35
What would people expect as a founder with working with those
48:37
folks? Real like before I started
48:43
working with Denver Ventures, each of the partners came to me
48:46
and told me that each of them are so individually different
48:51
and they wanted to make sure that I was OK with working with
48:54
people that, you know, might butt heads sometimes and might,
48:57
you know, they're all just their own individual character and I
49:03
adore that. And so they show up as who they
49:06
are every single day. You know, some of my found my
49:09
partners are a little bit more direct, The others are a little
49:13
bit more emotional and it all just ties in.
49:16
So I guess day-to-day, what you could expect is they're going to
49:19
give you their phone number and when things go wrong, give them
49:23
a call and everyone's going to put their head together and, and
49:27
figure things out. And when things are gone right,
49:29
give them a call and we'll go grab beers like it's I don't,
49:32
it's a very human firm that I'm at.
49:36
Everyone's just, they say how it is and you know, we grow and we
49:41
evolve and we improve with one another.
49:44
They're earning that Denver name.
49:46
They are and it's exactly to your point the people here that
49:51
and all of my partners have been here for for some time.
49:54
And so I would say they all kind of bring that energy, the firm
49:58
as a whole. Amazing.
50:00
And you're a great example of that because again, like folks
50:02
that are listening to this probably just listen to the, the
50:05
podcast I did with Wildwood, because that was the
50:08
introduction you gave me to Rita.
50:10
I talked to Rita. She's like, you should talk to
50:12
Jesse. I, I had an interview with Jesse
50:14
and I was like, Rita, can you talk to my daughter too?
50:16
And she's like, sure. You know, so it's like that
50:18
fast. That's like it it it's.
50:21
The ripples. The ripples, yeah.
50:23
And it's, it's great because then it, I mean, honestly, the
50:25
other thing about Denver is it's not that big.
50:27
You know, you can kind of feel the edges.
50:29
I mean, even, you know, the, the, the company that I had
50:33
acquired last year, we'd work with 900 founders.
50:36
So like at that point, you think about all the like sales calls
50:39
and people I talked to, you start to reach the edge of the
50:42
founder universe kind of you like, Oh my gosh, people start
50:44
doubling back. I had somebody today that was
50:47
like, hey, we're with XYZ and we're interested if you could
50:50
help us. I was like, oh man, I worked
50:52
with that guy two years ago. He owes me 20 bucks.
50:56
Like, hell yeah, come on back, you know, which is really cool.
50:58
You start to feel the the edge in the perimeter and you start
51:01
to see how everybody's connected.
51:03
You know, it's really neat. Now, one thing that Jesse was
51:08
talking about that I thought was interesting is we were talking
51:10
about the founders, the attributes of the founders and
51:14
kind of ultimately, if they're pitching VC, they have to have
51:18
the ability to sell and there's different sales tactics, you
51:24
know. So in your opinion, what are
51:26
what are some valuable attributes a founder can have
51:28
when they're like presenting a deck?
51:31
You know, of course they have to mention mailboxes.
51:34
This is gold standard, but what else do you look for?
51:38
Or do you notice that you're like, that was good?
51:42
We're always looking for what I like to call like the dichotomy
51:48
of man, like you're bold, but you're also pragmatic and you
51:53
know, you're confident, but you're also humble.
51:56
And so I think overall excitement and, or interest in a
52:00
specific sector that kind of just rings through as you're,
52:03
you're giving your pitch, You know, you can kind of sense when
52:06
someone wants to solve this issue so badly that they are
52:10
going to do anything on this earth to make it happen.
52:13
And not just like, that's nothing that you say directly.
52:15
That's just how you're saying it comes through, but it's giving
52:20
examples of how you're, you're doing it.
52:23
You know, how you're showing up day-to-day.
52:26
One of my favorite questions I always ask is what have you done
52:29
this past week? And it stops a lot of them in
52:32
their tracks and then some of them like light back up and
52:35
they're like, so I got this, this and they're so excited to
52:37
tell me everything that they did and like what that's going to
52:41
do, like to cascade for the rest of their business.
52:45
And then there's other people that they're like, well, like
52:48
I've hopped on a lot of investor calls and, you know, I I talked
52:52
like with a few new Co founders potentially.
52:56
And then that kind of makes you think of like, well, are you
52:59
putting your energy and prioritizing the right things at
53:03
this time? Because that zero to 1 is so, so
53:06
difficult. And there is a level of
53:10
prioritization and and confidence of you being able to
53:13
to actually accomplish what you're setting out to, to do.
53:16
Do you do you get a lot of kind of Shark Tank razzle dazzle?
53:20
No, honestly I I hop on quick calls and it's more so just to
53:26
get to know the person. So rarely do I have them
53:28
actually come and just pitch. Me just cold pitch would be
53:30
crazy. It's more so like, who are you,
53:33
what have you done in the past? What are you doing now?
53:35
Like what gets you interested? And I I'm just trying, just
53:37
trying to get to know the person and then we can go more into the
53:42
business itself. It's cool.
53:45
Yeah. My I'm pretty darn good at
53:49
sales. I love that attribute largely
53:52
because I'm a zero to one guy and you need that like you
53:55
develop, like ability to connect and relate and sell when you're
53:59
going 0 to 1 because every it's it's so important.
54:03
But you know, working it in technical startups for so long
54:06
that like there is a lot of spectrumy people that are not
54:12
selling, you know what I mean? And what, and I mean that with
54:16
all due respect, you know, we're all in the spectrum somewhere.
54:19
Some people socially are in a different place, you know, and
54:22
and those are those are some of my best friends, but they're
54:26
they're not necessarily selling or trying to like have fun.
54:31
Like there's a certain like obviously I'm a podcaster, so
54:35
like there's a certain sport to conversation that I enjoy, but
54:38
some people don't. But I think what you're talking
54:41
about too, is that you when you have somebody who's so confident
54:44
and that's the attribute a lot of time of technical founders
54:47
where they're like, no, like this is so simple.
54:49
Why don't you see it, you know, but then have the humility to
54:52
like understand it. Like they they know that they
54:55
need something else and they're able to go get that, whether
54:58
it's with like, you know, financial partners or maybe it's
55:01
a Co founder or whatever. Of course, Y combinators just
55:03
famous for they want to see Co founders.
55:05
They want to have that like 1-2 combo of like the sales guy, the
55:09
technical guy, you know, because it works out so successfully.
55:13
So so that's good, you know, is are there are there speakers or
55:18
let's say founders that you feel like really exhibit the the a
55:25
great personality for like you're looking for attributes.
55:28
So for example, Jesse was like, he like Sam Altman, he like
55:31
Steve Jobs and he liked some other guy that I forget other
55:35
people or founders or other examples that you could point to
55:39
to be like this guy does it well or this gal does it well.
55:44
I would just point to one of not a, not a plug here, but one of
55:48
our portfolio companies Boom Supersonic Jets.
55:52
Blake is an incredible spokesperson, but he's also
55:57
incredibly technical. I mean, he's he's built
56:00
supersonic jets, but his ability to sell that vision and get
56:05
other people to come along with that mission.
56:09
My first day when I was starting out with Dumber ventures, I just
56:14
get to be in a room hearing from him and I was immediately sold.
56:19
Like it was just this presence this like overall, like you're
56:23
just locked into everything that he is saying.
56:26
And there was a lot of things that I didn't understand.
56:28
I'm not a previous engineer, so I didn't quite understand the
56:30
technical aspect, but he would play around with it of like this
56:34
is what we're developing. But like in layman's terms, like
56:37
now you're coming along for the ride.
56:40
So things like that, I hate to say it's just a vibe, but I
56:45
think you can get a get a sense. Yeah, with that, that sounds
56:47
like just sheer talent. Some people, yeah, man, they
56:50
it's like they they can speak at a very high level and then dumb
56:53
it down to my kindergarten level and I'm like, I'm on board.
56:56
This is amazing. Yeah, I love those guys too.
57:01
I think that, like, speaking is like, I think there's talent.
57:06
I think it's a a certain domain of intelligence in the way that
57:11
like geospatial is like. Also some people are really
57:14
smart in space. I get lost in my own city as the
57:18
mayor all the time. I'm really terribly dumb in that
57:21
kind of stuff. But like, speaking is something
57:24
that there's like a it's like an instrument or a a voice that I
57:28
think you can find mastery if you work at it, if you want to.
57:33
And the people that just have that it's it's it's almost an
57:36
honor to watch him speak. You know, It's great.
57:39
Yeah. Carson, this has been so much
57:41
fun. Thank you so much of.
57:43
Course. It's great. denverventures.co is
57:47
where you can see the firm. Where is the best place for
57:49
people to connect with you personally online?
57:52
LinkedIn works out great. I always like when people give a
57:55
little message. If you just connect with me,
57:58
probably not going to answer because I don't know who you
58:00
are. So send a send a little message
58:03
explaining who you are and and what not.
58:05
So you came from the podcast and I want to offer my support for
58:10
the mailbox startup idea. They're in, They're in.
58:15
Great. Thank you so much.
58:17
Of course, thank you for having me.
58:21
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