Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #136: Gill1918 presents Sammy Dabbs "Intermediate Hurdles Part 2" from Tampa Bay/USF Clinic

Transcript

#136: Gill1918 presents Sammy Dabbs "Intermediate Hurdles Part 2" from Tampa Bay/USF Clinic · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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Welcome to the Gill 1918 Project, a podcast series by
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coaches, for coaches powered by Gill Athletics.
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Think of this as the Ted Talks of track and field coaching.
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Short, insightful, and packed with valuable strategies to help
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Now let's get into today's topic.
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This is me. This is my thoughts about this
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race. The goal of the longer run the
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race in the most efficient manner for that athlete.
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You're trying to run the race taking the least number of steps
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for that individual, least number of steps.
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It's one of the few races that you technically this and the 110
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and the 100 hurdles are the only races you can technically plan
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out every step. The 100 meters, same thing 200
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but you can literally plan out your perfect race pattern.
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In this race. The most realistic race is
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running as many of the 8 hurdles and 300 hurdles, 10 hurdles and
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the 400 hurdles using the dominant leg and the least with
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the non dominant. That's again this is me.
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But if you go and watch Sydney's race, she's 14 through the 1st 7
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and then 15 the last three. All right, you go watch Rye
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Benjamin right now in the Olympics, I think he went 13
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through 914 and 10. And there are times where he's
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13 all the way. I actually saw him do something
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and I was like, this guy can drive the car.
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There was a racing year where he went.
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He accidentally went 12 from hurdle 4:00 to 5:00.
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He had to go 12 again to get back on the other leg.
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Then he went 13 around the turn. And when he crossed the finish
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line and he won, he saw this look on his face.
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It was almost like a grin, like y'all in trouble because I just
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made one of the biggest mistakes and covered it.
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Nobody paid attention. You guys are in trouble now.
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And he went back and made the adjustment and you know, he won
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the gold medal. All right, Takes off the track,
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planning reps in practice, preparing, but the race outcomes
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is wonderful. All right, this is Melissa with
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the guy on the left. He just finished second at the
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NCAA meeting, the 400 hurdles, he's a junior.
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The guy on the right, they both for US, this is 2022, finished
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first and 3rd, but they made the team and went to Columbia. 50.6
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on the left, 50.8 on the right. Here's the key, 36 four on the
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left, 36 six on the right, and I'm going to talk about those
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numbers. All right now we're just going
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to do a bunch of videos. So this is the handles e-mail.
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I have no problem. If you e-mail me or message me,
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just let me know. Hey, coach, I met you at the
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clinic there in Tampa and you know, on social media you hear
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me say it. Don't ask me for the space, but
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if you was in the clinic, I appreciate the support.
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Hey, ask me what you need. Shoot me videos.
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We getting into the fun now. Race modeling.
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You have to run certain segments of the race to prepare for what
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the race is going to be. All right, so you saw me do the
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250 with Samantha. All right, you saw the other
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video where the girls went hurdle 22, hurdle 9.
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All right, we're going to race search segments of the race, and
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then we're going to do split runs to mimic the fatigue and
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the finish of the race. And we call those fertile
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fatigue runs. So this was 2022, same people,
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Melon Dianca, hurdle one through hurdle 8.
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My goal for the 400 hurdles, I'm trying to get the ladies to have
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their first 5 seconds split at hurdle 9.
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That's my goal. The first part of the race is
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usually not that difficult. Hurdle 6 through 8 is usually
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when that gets to be the biggest challenge.
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But if you don't make them run deep enough in the race and
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training, it's really hard to prepare for this type of stuff.
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So this is hurdle 8 all right. And they you can see they're
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both backing off because they know.
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And on this day they literally walk up the straightaway.
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I will flip the track and do whatever I got to do to set up
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for a workout, walk right up the straightaway, hop back on and
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now we ran the last 200. No, we started at hurdle 4.
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That was hurdle 5. They went through the 200 and
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now we started at hurdle 4 at the mark.
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Ran hurdle 5 to the finish and the goal for me is trying to run
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the 2nd 200 of the race under 30.
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Now this is late in the season. This is for us.
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This is like June, July and in between big races.
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All right, twenty 914-2909 that run in six three, all right for
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us that's doing pretty good even even in that simulation hurdle 8
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was under 5 and then the 1st 5 second slip came in hurdle 9.
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So for Dianca, in three times, I started coaching her in 2021, in
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the three times that she's gotten a hurdle, 8 under 5
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seconds, she's around 55 seconds.
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For Melissa, her race is a little bit different.
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She's stronger. Bianca is about 5 to 100 lbs,
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all right, So when fatigue hits her, it hits her hard.
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Mel's about 58 and she ran at about 1:40, all right?
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She was a power person, all right.
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So believe it or not, the first part of our together as a coach
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and athlete, we spent more time doing short Sprint power type
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stuff. And then the later part of her
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career we built up to be able to do some of the longer stuff.
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All right. She got beat down with it in
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college and so we got away from it.
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That was the reason I put her back in the short hurdles.
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Short hurdles was the stimulus for her nervous system to get
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speed back into her body. That short, quick, three-step
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rhythm was like overspeed to her body.
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And unfortunately in college, weight was the issue.
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The speed and power stuff is actually how we controlled her
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weight and brought her weight down.
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Individually, we would do runs like this.
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This was a 30m run in, so we didn't go full blocks.
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All right, Again, she started getting faster.
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This was, see, I should run up on the hurdle.
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We lost time there. Those are those little nuances
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you see and you, you're on the video and you're like, crap.
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I got really good splits going right now.
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So that was our change at six get back on at 8 and this was
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always see. I couldn't get her to do this in
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a race right here. All right, five O 3.
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This is hurdle one to hurdle 9. This is going deep into the
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race. Well, coach, why is that so
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important? Because you're going to get
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moments that your athlete is going to be in lane 8 and
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nobody's in front of them. And you have to understand, they
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have to know how to run their race blind.
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They got to know the pace of it. They got to know and be
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comfortable that hey coach, I'm not, I'm not doing too much.
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I'm right where I need to be. So this is my converted 400,
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Hurtler Lane 8IN high school, before there was Quincy Wilson,
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there was Aldrich Bailey and we so he came out of the same club
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program I did in Dallas and I was around him a lot back then.
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In his last high school race, we were driving home from Houston
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and we joked, hey, by 2020, because he ran at the 2012
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Olympic Trials, made two rounds as a high school senior, both in
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lane 8, we joked, if by 2020 you hadn't done anything in the 400,
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we're going to do the hurdles. COVID.
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He comes up to me, all right, coach time for the hurdles and
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I'm and when we started training at fall, when I told the girls
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to go start doing hurdle stuff, he all right, we're just going
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to use for some hip flexor work. I didn't pay no attention.
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Then we started doing drills and then he started telling me
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numbers and patterns and I'm like, oh, he's serious.
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He told me coach 48 five has always made the Olympic team.
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Michael, you serious? Serious 2021 Olympic trials, we
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make the finals 4855 fourth, first time 48 five didn't make
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our Olympic team. But in the first year he
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hurdled, all right, 4855 never had hurdled before.
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We trained for about 7 months now he extended, he's extended
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his career and so in 2022, in the fall, joined the US Army
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when it's their W Cap program. So now he's representing the US
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Army. This was his fourth or by third
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or fourth race in 2024488, his second fastest time.
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The splits on this race really important. 22/8 through 200 all
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right and the guys today, they're running under 22 five,
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all right, this number right here.
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This is 35 three for 300 meters in a race.
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Most states 35 three is going to be their state record for 300
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hurdles and these guys running that number over hurdles still
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moving all right, 4-5 I'm trying to get that number.
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I'm trying to be under 4-5 at hurdle 8 and we had this was his
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first year back hurling after being off for a year.
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We were having some issues at hurdle 8 and so I was like 2
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racing row. I think we came down to Tom
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Jones and somewhere else and he was trying to run the same model
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from 21. I said you're faster and you're
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hurdle better. We got to make an adjustment.
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This was the first race we threw the adjustment in.
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It worked. Now I want you to notice this
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number 45. This was him changing at hurdle
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8. OK.
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Now for him, I will keep the hurdles on regular spacing
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because of how fast he is and how long he is.
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And so his awareness and how to adjust to the hurdles has gotten
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a lot better. So he changed it to 7.
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This track was a little bit tighter, but four or five we
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started seeing that he needed to, he was trying, we were
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trying to run all 8 and we were, we were having problems doing
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so. So it's like, OK, we'll, we'll,
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we'll make a slight adjustment to that.
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High school boys, I'm not going to show the full race, but what
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I do want to pay attention to is this.
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This is the 300 in that race, 36 seven and for Grant 3710, once
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we transition from the 300 hurdles to the 400 hurdles, I
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told them I said we need to run about 1/2 a second slower than
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what your 300 hurdle PR is. Slow it down just a tad bit, but
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we have to keep the same type of model 36 four he runs 36 seven
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366HE runs exactly 37 one. And this race Grant ran 51-O2
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and then in Columbia he went 50.8.
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So that 300 hurdle number if it if that 300 race is ran the
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right way, it literally serves as a training number.
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The other part is race model. You have to train and practice
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the model and practice. What was cool about this was I
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was sitting in the stands with this race, 50.6, he's in lane.
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What is that for? We're in Oregon, that's in June.
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I come back to the World Championships at the end of July
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and Sydney runs the exact same race model in the exact same
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lane and runs the exact same time, 14 steps through hurdle,
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7:15 through the end. And I'm like, that's pretty
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nuts. I just had a 18 year old boy do
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what at that time, probably 2223 years old.
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We come back, same thing. I got another guy, just finished
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the year lane 4. He ran 36 one this year in the
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300 hurdles, 36 seven. I got another guy right now back
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in Texas who's ran 36 twice as a junior.
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Just had bad experiences at the state meeting and he's a senior.
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I'm like, dude, I'm 3 for three. If you don't run 50 point,
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you're killing me. But the model, this is from a
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training model standpoint. I don't know any college coach
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who would not take 50 point coming out of high school.
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All right, And in Florida, how would this stack up with you
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guys actually doing the 400 hurdles?
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How does this stack up at state? We didn't get away.
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You know, I'll be a state record.
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OK, Yeah, 36 minutes is all it's going to be if it's coached
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right. If it's coached right, I will
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say this. The crazy part for these guys is
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this. The other two guys, Grant and
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Cody, they ran state 300 hurdles.
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Your next long hurdle race was the under 20 meet.
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We didn't get to run a 400 hurdle race prior to that, their
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next 400 hurdle race was in Oregon On this track.
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Prelims was their first go at it.
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Made the adjustment finals 50 point.
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All right, Ewing was a little bit different.
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His first race was 52 in New Mexico.
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Then he came back to under 20 and went 52 again in the
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prelims. We we jacked it up and I don't
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even count what happened in the finals at Nike because he ran 1.
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He ran 110 prelim under 20, made the finals, had to run the final
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of the under 2400 hurdles 20 minutes later and then came back
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45 minutes and ran the 110 final at under 20, had a day off.
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Then he comes back and runs 50.8.
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So you talk about less than four races.
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So one thing we we have a big emphasis in practice of making
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sure that we run the race the way we have to.
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One more example of one of the things I like to do.
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So this was a high school girl I work with.
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She's now freshman at USC and she hated switching legs.
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But I told her, I said your stride pattern is too big.
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We have to like natural. So that was her off leg.
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Doesn't like it at all. She was A136 and 4120.
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All right before a high school girl.
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I will take having your splits at 48 at hurdle 5.
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I'll take that. I think I gave her two minutes
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rest. All right, line back up.
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Let's run the second hat. This is a 400 hurdle fatigue
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work. Now the goal for her is the
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second-half of the race. Try to see can you just keep 17
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with your dominant leg and it's the same thing.
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She's under 5 at hurdle 8 and again trying to see can I get
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her under 30. 29, four, all right, you have to practice the
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race going at a certain speed in order to get the type of results
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you want. You can't go the kids here, 400
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hurdles and they think, well, I'm going to jog the race.
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And Coach Anderson said shouldn't be nobody running 70
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seconds. Like, don't put them out there.
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If they can't break 60 in the open floor, don't put them out
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there. All right?
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Malpractice, literally, because you're you, you've turned the
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400 hurdles into the 800. If you've heard me talk about
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one thing, it's about the speed of the race.
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And that's one thing we've tried to do with the high school kids
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when we get into the 400 hurdles, we try to expose them
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to how fast the race has to be in the intensity of it.
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So we talk about the splits, we talk about the race modeling and
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things of that nature. And then we go out and we
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practice it. And you have to practice like at
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no point should they ever do anything working on the 1st 5
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hurdles in fatigue. Every time you work on the first
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part of your race, the athletes should be fresh.
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They should have fresh legs. Which means if I'm working the
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1st 5 to 6 hurdles, problem with that is I probably need 15 to 20
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minutes recovery before I can come back and go again.
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Hurdles 6 through 10 fatigue stuff.
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You want to run 300? Take a 92nd risk, walk back, run
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the last 200. That's fatigue, 1st 5 or 6.
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Those have to be run fresh and under certain guidelines.
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All right, I'm going to stop right there and open it up for
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questions. What's your emphasis on like you
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emphasize like weightlifting? Over 13 years of working with
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high school kids, I've never been in a weight room.
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And a lot of times people are very shocked when they realize
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that none of my kids lift weights.
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They may have a lifting program they do with their parents or
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maybe at school, but I've never been in the weight run with a
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high school athlete. If they're working with somebody
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who is knowledgeable, if they're doing basics.
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I got a girl at UCF right now, just ran Twenty 304-2303, never
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touched weights. And I told the coach, hey Dana,
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she's never been in the weight room.
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So they made sure when we started weights this year, they
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told the strength coach, they said she actually got some of
22:01
the best technique on the team, but she has a solid foundation
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to start off with. So I'm I ain't going to say it
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doesn't work, but if I had to set up to do it, I would.
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But since I don't, I just don't do it.
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How? How can you address their arms?
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I do and I don't when I see it's really taken away all right in
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the longer hurdles, I'll say that in the short hurdles where
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I'm anal about it and I fuss and fuss and fuss.
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In the longer hurdles, sometime they're hurdling with the non
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dominant leg and it's not pretty and they don't like it.
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But the kid this year who ran 36 and 1, he was a 35 second kid.
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He couldn't change legs and we could not, we did not have the
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time or the infrastructure set up to teach him how to change
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legs. But because of how fast he was,
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we pushed out so fast. And he went 13 in practice from
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1:00 to 2:00. And he's like, coach, I think
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I'll just do that. And So what we did was we're in
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13 steps from one to two, two to three.
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And he knew when he came off 3 to start kind of shuffle inkling
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to go from 13 to 15. And that's how he maintains your
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iPad. And he went 15 the rest of the
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way. So once he got in the 400
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hurdles, again, I'm talking about slowing it down a little
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bit, slowed it down a little bit.
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He went 15 the entire race. So he's the second boy I've had
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who went. Him and Grant both went 15 away.
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Cody was 14 through 715 the rest of the way.
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All right, yeah, just curious about discounting hurdles and
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training for your your folks if you do it.
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And if so, you keep the discounted measurement static or
23:57
is it a progressive manipulation or how do you do that?
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Oh, hurdle 1 is on. Hurdle 2 is in one foot.
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Hurdle 3 is in two feet, hurdle 43 feet.
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The thing is, in the longer hurdles, they don't know.
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They don't know. They're just renting.
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I'm the only one who knows. Good.
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I set it up. Other thing I do for the boys, I
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run 30 inches in practice. I'm folks.
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And what's on the pattern? My boy Ronnie Harrison, he said
24:27
back in 22 Carson Warholm, they had rented their facility to
24:33
train for the World Championships.
24:35
And he said, Sammy, they was running over hurdles that were
24:38
24 inches. And I had heard that before.
24:40
And they say never. He focuses on running as fast as
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he can and just being a sprinter in between, not so much the hike
24:47
of the hurdle. And so a lot of times with my
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girls, I'll run 27, especially if I'm working on switching
24:53
those legs. They're a little bit more
24:55
confident to do it so that when it goes back up to 30, the first
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time they see 30, it may not be a regular hurdle.
25:01
Going to be a collapsible hurdle.
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Take some of the fear away and once they've done it a few Times
25:08
Now it's OK, let's put a hurdle, a regular hurdle out there, but
25:11
it's light and it blows over. And so I'm building the
25:14
confidence so that when we finally roll the ball out for
25:17
the game, they're like, OK, at least I got a plan for the first
25:20
half to 3/4 of this race. All right, you're going to
25:25
notice that the early part of your season, don't try to plan
25:29
the entire race out. Just tell your athlete, hey, run
25:33
the 1st 200, can we do that part and what we're working on in
25:38
practice as the season goes on, you kind of just move around the
25:43
turn, keep adding parts into it. You may be doing the whole race
25:47
set up in practice, but in the meet, hey, a win today is you
25:52
running the first five hurdles. The way we worked on that way,
25:56
they stopped looking at the results so much and they start
25:59
building the confidence. That's what I do for the 300
26:01
hurdles, running the first four at the beginning of in February,
26:05
I can get 75, I can get 45 in Texas, run the 1st 4 the way we
26:11
work on it, All right, March gets here, we'll get all the way
26:15
around the turn by April, OK, we got the last two, but make it a
26:21
progression in the season versus trying to run the entire thing
26:25
just all out, yes. Use the stride pattern and like
26:36
counting the step for the hospital.
26:37
So we will do so that same thing I just gave you guys that you
26:41
come up with that I'm going to do if there are 17 step stride
26:45
pattern, all right. If they're odd number stride
26:49
pattern, then I'm going to do some seven or nine step runs in
26:55
fall training trying to run on that pattern.
27:00
So taking the same formula, I got the average stride length.
27:03
Now if I want to run 7 strides, 7 * 214, now I add back my take
27:10
off and my landing. All right, I'm 17.
27:14
All right, So I can run a nine step path.
27:19
I'm sorry, a seven step pattern in practice with the hurdles 17
27:24
meters apart, here's the key. I need about a 20 to 25 meter
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run in to make sure I have enough speed.
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OK and so 17 meters is a whole number.
27:37
If you are a super nerd like me. The girls hurdles are 8.5 apart.
27:42
So the work has already been done with you.
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I'm going every other girls hurdle, all right, and to go to
27:49
the first hurdle, I might put the go 13579.
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It's 13 meters to the first hurdle.
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I'm just going to back up to the boys 110 mark.
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Now I'm 23 meters to hurdle 1 and I didn't have to come out
28:03
with no tape measure or do nothing.
28:06
And now it's trying to push, make one or two reps to try to
28:11
make sure you get the approach right.
28:12
It's going to be between based on height, 11 to 13 steps.
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And now I'm doing that, going to that first hurdle and I'm just
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trying to run. What happens is sometimes
28:24
they're trying to turn over and what you start to understand in
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the hurdles, longer hurdles, it's a patient run.
28:31
It's not a turnover. And so if they're shorter, they
28:35
want to really spend, you know, be patient.
28:38
So that's how you kind of start to get their mind to understand
28:41
the difference between the short hurdles and long hurdles.
28:44
All right, if you're going to do both hurdles on the same day,
28:48
short hurdle first, long hurdle second.
28:51
That's how they happen. That attract me.
28:54
Sure, I try not to, but I have some that do They tell me coach,
29:05
I count, I try to go off field. I try to make them feel it and
29:10
get into a pattern and a rhythm. I think on on my piece, once
29:16
they teach them to count and once they start counting and
29:19
they do it so long, they just stop.
29:22
But then they and their system in their head, it's
29:33
automatically Yep, it gets into a rhythm.
29:37
Samantha Gonzalez has probably been the most challenging for me
29:40
because she can start spinning so fast.
29:42
And I never forget again. Coach Aniston, we've been in
29:46
Texas a lot. So when he was at A&M, he saw
29:48
her run at the state meet the first time she won the state and
29:51
he put Sammy, she's adjusting from 15 steps.
29:55
And I was like, I know, I know she she probably could have run
30:00
39, eight for the 300 girls, but it just would come at her so
30:05
freaking fast. She would just freak out and
30:09
just put on the brakes. And like I say, even doing that,
30:13
she would still run phenomenal times.
30:19
Any other questions? I have one for you.
30:23
Again, we do a lot of high school coaches.
30:25
Yeah, probably most of our foreigner hurdlers are also
30:27
going to be on our 4x4. Any adjustments you make the
30:30
training to make sure they're ready for both?
30:33
Not necessarily from a flat standpoint.
30:38
Let's say you're running two hundreds, repeat, two hundreds.
30:41
OK, your 400 hurdlers, all right, run 200 flat, run 200
30:47
over hurdles, but just make sure that 200 that they do over
30:50
hurdles is on the the backside is the actual hurdles.
30:54
Don't make them fatigue. Run the beginning of the race,
30:57
all right, but put it on the backside.
31:00
Make a little slight adjustment calculation into it.
31:04
If you're using what Vince said last night, 5200, all right,
31:07
make two of them over hurdles. All right, maybe add an extra 30
31:13
seconds to a minute rest on that side.
31:14
But you can try to mix them in. But what I typically used to
31:19
see, and this was really bad the the the as a college coach, most
31:25
of my incoming 304 hundred hurtlers did not have a flat 400
31:30
time. And you won't find a lot of flat
31:36
400 times out of a lot of 400 hurtlers coming in out of high
31:39
school. And I'm going to say something.
31:43
It's going to get me in trouble. If a kid has not run a lot of
31:48
open 4 hundreds and they're a hurdler, don't run them.
31:55
If you're trying to get them recruited.
31:56
The worst thing they can have is a 59 or a 49 on a resume.
32:01
Because now to the college coach, it looks like they can't
32:04
run the 400. They just hadn't run it enough
32:06
to run it well. Run them in the 200.
32:11
It was more advantageous for me to run my high school kid in the
32:14
200 and him around 21, five going to Baylor versus trying to
32:18
run him in the open 400. And he runs 49 twice trying to
32:22
figure it out. So they looked at him like he's
32:26
fast, he's running the short hurdles fast, we're going to
32:29
take him now. The kid can split 46, but he has
32:33
no idea how to run the open 400. We had a 400 hurdle when I was
32:39
coaching at UNT. The fastest he could give us was
32:42
48 flat out the blocks and the kid ran 50 point in the hurdles.
32:49
I had another kid. The kid made the US Under 20
32:52
team. Mike Ford was the head coach.
32:54
He ran 51 one. I called Ford, I said my kid is
32:57
not a relay person, do not use him as a person who will run the
33:03
relay for Team USA. And he was like thank you.
33:08
He said because you have no idea how many coaches would just try
33:12
to get their kid on something knowing that they can't.
33:16
On the flip side, I called Michelle Freeman in 2022, Hey,
33:20
both my kids are out. Do you need some relay legs?
33:23
Yes, both my guys flipped 46, help the team get to the final.
33:28
They both got gold medals. But she was like Sammy, that
33:32
helped us out in a huge spot because we was looking for legs,
33:35
lose down bodies. Both my guys didn't make the
33:37
finals in the 400 hurdles. They made semifinals.
33:40
She took those bodies. They ran 3 old whatever, got to
33:44
the finals, they were good. So honesty, honesty, all right.
33:49
But flat stuff, make sure they can Sprint.
33:53
You got to make sure. I mean, I didn't get into all
33:54
the conditioning and stuff like that in the fall training, but
33:58
you got a race model. You can't send them out there
34:00
with no game plan to expect them to just get it done all right.
34:04
That's on you as a coach, all right?
34:07
That's all. I got awesome.
34:08
Give it up for Sammy Dabs. A great lesson about our high
34:14
school coaches needing to be involved in the recruiting
34:16
process. All right?
34:18
We can't just be looking at stats.
34:19
That was a great point about the foreign hurdles.
34:21
Awesome. Hey gang, Mike Cunningham here.
34:24
Hey, I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Guild 1918
34:27
Project series. It's really my mission, my
34:31
passion to bring you massive amounts of value and I hope this
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one hit the mark. The Gill 1918 Project is really
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dependent on you if for you to build your own episode, to hear
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your voice, to have your voice heard you have something to say
34:46
and teach other coaches out there.
34:48
So please get a hold of me, e-mail, text message, Twitter,
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34:58
Hope you enjoy today, they will see you tomorrow.