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Ep. 397 - Compelled: Oscar Navarro · The Living Waters Podcast

1:04
SPEAKER_01: That was kind of that moment, that aha moment for me, because in my mind I'm like, I'm a 20-something year old guy.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm doing pretty well financially.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: And I just hit the peak, air quote peak, of what like what's supposed to be the most amazing experience that a young man is supposed to have.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like absolute garbage.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: What is happening?
1:29
SPEAKER_01: That was sort of the like that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: This isn't working.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: Like something changed.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: Because that was supposed to be the thing that kicked me out of my slump or whatever it was.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: So when I wake up that morning, you know, the girls are gone.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just like, what is wrong with me, man?
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Like, who am I?
1:49
SPEAKER_01: I can't figure out what's going on.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: But I start to link it.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, man, something, something changed.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: And it happened that night.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: That guy prayed for me.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Something changed.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: And I gotta figure out what this is.
2:06
SPEAKER_03: Someone once said the man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument.
2:11
SPEAKER_03: And it's so true.
2:12
SPEAKER_03: When you've experienced the power of God, no argument can talk you out of it.
2:17
SPEAKER_03: Oscar Navara has an incredibly powerful testimony.
2:21
SPEAKER_03: So powerful, I've pleaded with him to put it into a book form.
2:25
SPEAKER_03: Here he is, sharing his testimony on a program called Compelled.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm Paul Hastings, and you're listening to a special episode of Compelled, brought to you by our friends at Living Waters.
2:41
SPEAKER_02: Every week on Compelled, we use gripping and immersive storytelling to bring to life Christian testimonies from the kingdom of God told by the people compelled to live for him.
2:51
SPEAKER_02: Our guest today is Oscar Navarro.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: Oscar wasn't just an atheist, he was zealous about it.
2:57
SPEAKER_02: The absence of an earthly father in his life simply reinforced the truth that Christians were stupid.
3:04
SPEAKER_02: There was no father in heaven looking down from above.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: All this world had to offer was chaos.
3:09
SPEAKER_02: But as Oscar pursued earthly pleasures, there were some questions that just couldn't be answered.
3:16
SPEAKER_02: Perhaps he did have a loving father after all.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: So gather around, lean in, and join us for another compelling story from the Kingdom of God.
3:36
SPEAKER_02: Oscar grew up in Orange County, California during the 80s and 90s.
3:40
SPEAKER_02: He was raised bilingual, easily conversing in Spanish or English, depending on the situation.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: But when it came to matters of faith, he was clueless.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: I did not grow up in a Christian home by any stretch of the imagination to have this very specific memory.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: I must have been in second or third grade, and I'm at a playground at school, and kids are going around asking, you know, what are you?
4:06
SPEAKER_01: And so it's like Christian, Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Christian.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: And it gets to me, and I'm like, I have no idea what those words mean.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: They are just totally foreign concepts to me.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: I just, just religion, faith, none of that was even on the radar.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: However, I did know a prayer.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: So my grandma, she would give me rides to school at a very young age, and she would have me recite Psalm 23 in Spanish.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: Psalm 23, one, amen.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: And so that was the closest thing to a prayer I ever had.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: And what's funny is I didn't even realize what she was teaching me.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: Again, kind of like a seed.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: My mom she got pregnant when she was 15, had me when she was 16.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: And from what I can remember my whole life, she always struggled with addiction.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: Whether it was alcohol, um, you know, the worst of it was meth.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: I was told that my biological father left two weeks before my first birthday.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: The only two stories about my biological father that I ever heard was that he gets into bar fights and that he likes to drink.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: My mom got married a handful of times.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: We moved around quite a bit.
5:43
SPEAKER_01: I'll often say it's it doesn't feel right to call my mom's husband's stepdads because it implies an interest in being fatherly.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: And at least two of them had zero interest in being fatherly.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: My first stepdad was sexually abusive for seven straight years from first grade on, uh, and I mean in the worst kind of ways, like towards you.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: Towards me, yeah.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: And at one point, my mom caught him and decided to stay with him and sort of looked the other way.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: And it continued um on and on and on for years.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: It was so bad that I actually lost memory.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: So I don't have, I have memory of first grade.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: I really don't have memory of like third, fourth, or fifth grade.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: I think that was the peak of it.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I've read in certain places that you're having traumatic events, especially as a younger child, one way that your brain copes is that you just shut off memories, you know, and it continued on and on and on.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: They ended up divorcing, and she married somebody who was very physically abusive.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: So I was an only child until she got pregnant with my sisters.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: I have triplet sisters.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: They're 13 years younger than me.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: They're amazing.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, but their their dad was very abusive, abusive towards my mom, abusive towards them.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: I remember him one time grabbing my little sister who was no more than six months old, and she was a crier.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: He held her upside down by one leg and which started whacking her.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: And I looked at him sort of like, what are you doing?
7:24
SPEAKER_01: you know?
7:24
SPEAKER_01: And this guy's, you know, ex-gang member, he's six-something, tattoos on his knuckles at the time.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: He gives me this intimidating look, like, what are you gonna do about it?
7:34
SPEAKER_01: And I'm 13 years old and I just cower away.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: This one time I remember he was being abusive and it's loud, walls are rattling, it's screaming, it's crying, it's her saying, please stop.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: So I crawled under my bed with a blanket and I grab this little tape, it's U2 Joshua Tree, and I stick it in the tape deck, you know, click, click, clack, hit play.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: And the sound of that first song where the streets have no name starts just like enveloping this little cubby I have under my bed.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: And it starts drowning out the sound of this abuse that's happening in the other room.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: And not to get too preachy, but a song's about heaven.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: And here's this kid, has nothing, no, no prior knowledge of God or anything.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: I can't help but wonder, Bono and U2 were like these like God spies planting a seed of some kingdom, some place where there's no pain or suffering.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: I didn't have a Bible, I didn't have church, I didn't have a pastor, I didn't have any of that.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: I had the U2 Joshua Tree album, you know.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: C.S.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: Lewis likes talking about like to deliver the gospel and sneak past the watchful dragon to sort of plant a seed of a story of hopefulness.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: And I think Bono was that spy that snuck past the watchful dragon for me.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is subconscious stuff.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm I don't realize it.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: To me, it's just like noise that's drowning out the terror that's in the other room.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: We get into an argument, and me and this guy start, he starts pushing me around.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: I used to say like we got into a fight, but that's not fair because I'm like 13 and he's, you know, 30 something and massive.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Like it wasn't a fight.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: He just started pushing me around.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: He pushes me through a door, it kind of collapses, we hit the ground, he's on top of me.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: My mom comes in and she starts yelling at him and me.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: And so in the midst of that yelling, I kind of wiggle out from under him, he turns his anger towards her.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: I run into the other room, into the living room, and I call the police.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: It's the first time I'd ever called the police on him.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: And they realize I'm on the phone with the police.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: And as I'm on the phone with the police, he looks at my mom and says something like, if the cops show up, either he goes or I'm out of here.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: Meaning, like, you're gonna have to kick him out or I'm leaving you.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: And at 13, you hear somebody give your mom an ultimatum like that, and you're like, let's go.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: This guy's out of here.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: Like there was just you have, you just, you're secure.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: It's your mom, you know.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: I hang up the phone and my mom tells me to start packing my bags.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: So at 13, my mom kicked me out of the house.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: Looking back, I can tell you that the devil planted a lie in my heart that day, which was if your mom won't accept you, who will?
10:30
SPEAKER_02: Oscar moved into his grandmother's tiny condo where he slept on her couch, but the trauma that he'd grown up with began to overflow.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: He had a distrust of authority and was probably kicked out of three different middle schools.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: But Oscar just didn't care.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: Rules were meaningless, and no one could tell him what to do.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: A friend was going to UC Berkeley, and he was like, Hey, my spring break starts this weekend on Thursday.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: And uh me and another friend are like, Okay, we'll go pick you up.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: I didn't tell anybody, I didn't ask for permission.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: I just leave.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: And so now I'm absent Friday from high school.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: We go up to Berkeley, Saturday hangout, Sunday hang out, and we're like, well, let's keep hanging out.
11:11
SPEAKER_01: Monday, Tuesday, we're hanging out, and I'm just absent from school.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: So now the school's calling my grandma.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: She has no idea I'm not even in town.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's just, I was just a kid without any prior parental supervision.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: A few friends were taking a humanities class, and they were reading these white papers on socialism, and that connected towards like French atheism and the Enlightenment era.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: And so we started reading these things and getting really interested in this like enlightened atheist perspective of the world.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: So summer between freshman and sophomore year, we're hanging out at San Clemente Beach, bonfire going, and we we were like, you know what?
11:55
SPEAKER_01: We're atheists.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: We we self-declared ourselves at the as atheists.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: One time we found out about these high school students that are gathering together on a Wednesday morning under the American flag to pray.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: And me and my buddies are like, oh, dude, let's go.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, so we wake up at like 5, 5:30 in the morning, which you can never get me up that early.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: But we get up, we go down to that American flag, and we start debating them.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: I was like the atheist version of Ray Comfort.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
12:21
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm I'm showing up and arguing with these Christians and telling them who, you know, who do you think you are?
12:27
SPEAKER_01: And don't you realize how ridiculous your view of the world is?
12:30
SPEAKER_01: And how can you trust this man, man-made Bible and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: And so Christopher Hitchens uses this phrase, militant atheist.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: And I loved that phrase.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: I was like, yes, that's us.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: We are militant atheists.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: We want to have these conversations.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: And we were, you know, disrespectful, unkind, in your face kind of guys.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: And not all atheists are like that, but that was our brand of atheism at that time.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: I was a well-studied atheist.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: Matter of fact, I remember one time I thought it would be romantic to take a girl out on a date to go listen to Sam Harris lecture at UCLA.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: That to me was a good time.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
13:07
SPEAKER_01: Everyone else is taking their girlfriends out to go see Titanic with Leonardo DiCaprio.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, let's go see Sam Harris.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I was a militant atheist.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: I was well studied.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: I've always been an avid reader.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: I've read, I read the books, and I was familiar with Christianity too.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: I knew the gospel, but from the other side.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: You know, the the gospel wasn't new information to me.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: It was data I understood, but just from a different perspective.
13:32
SPEAKER_02: But of course, all of this gave Oscar's grandmother significant grief.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: She had taught her grandson how to pray the 23rd Psalm when he was just a little boy.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: But now he rejected all of it.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: My grandma's a Christian.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm living with her.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm an atheist.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: And I can remember there were nights where I was gonna go hang out with some friends on like a Friday night or whatever.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: And we lived again in a one-bedroom condo.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: I would sleep on her couch.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Her couch is basically my living room.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: I would walk by, in order to leave the house, I had to pass the door to her room.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: And she would be on her knees with her elbows on her bed in tears, crying and praying for me in Spanish.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: To keep me safe, to save me, that I would know God.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: And I remember in that moment, I would think to myself, man, like what a waste of time.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: You're sitting there in agony, crying, talking to nobody.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: At age 15, Oscar moved out of his grandma's condo and started living on his own.
14:35
SPEAKER_02: He was a hustler and knew how to work hard.
14:38
SPEAKER_02: And by the time he finished high school, he was making some serious money.
14:42
SPEAKER_02: He began attending college, which is when he started dating the daughter of a retired pastor.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: And needless to say, her parents were not enthused.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: They did not like me, though they were always hospitable to me.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: They were always kind to me.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: I can tell obviously they did not want me to be dating their daughter, you know.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: And so they'd invite us to church often, and neither of us ever wanted to go.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: Like she did not want to go.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: I most definitely did not want to go.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: And one day they invite us because he's speaking at the church that he had formerly worked at.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: And a bunch of her extended family are going and they're gonna go out to dinner afterwards.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: And so the girl I was dating comes to me and it's like, hey, you know, maybe we should go to this thing.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: It'll be good to keep the peace with my family.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: And her mindset was like, I don't want to go either.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: This isn't gonna be fun, but it'll probably help in our relationship with my parents.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: And I like I went kicking and screaming, dude.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: Like, I did not want to go to this thing.
15:43
SPEAKER_01: I was like, this is gonna be dumb.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: What a waste of time.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: There's so many other things I'd rather be doing on a Sunday morning, like sleeping in.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
15:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't want to go to this stupid church.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: But we went to keep the peace, and they do, you know, the prayers and all that stuff, and then they pass the offering plate.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: And I remember thinking to my mind, that's why we're really here, tax-free income.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: Then her dad gets up and he asks everybody to pray.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: He's like, bow your heads and pray with me.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: And everyone bows their heads, and I don't.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm not interested.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: And I remember making eye contact with him.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: And his look was like a dad looking at this boy who's dating his daughter.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: And he had this look like, you're not even gonna bow your heads.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: And I looked at him, and in my mind, I'm like, I'm not bowing my head, you know.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: At that time, being this punk kid, listening to punk music, Mr.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: Anti-Authority, in my mind, I'm like, yeah, dude, stick it to the man.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm not bowing my head.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna, I'm not a conformist, you know.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: So that was that church service.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: We leave, it wasn't great, didn't like it, she didn't like it either, and that was that.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: After the service, Oscar didn't think anything else about it.
17:02
SPEAKER_02: God was a complete non-factor, used as a crutch for the weak, just a fairy tale for children.
17:09
SPEAKER_02: But contrary to Oscar's opinion, God was real and was about to drop a bombshell on his atheist opinions.
17:19
SPEAKER_02: Which we'll hear about right after this.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to Compelled.
17:29
SPEAKER_02: Oscar Navarro was around 21 years old.
17:32
SPEAKER_02: He was an adamant atheist and was convinced that the only person who could improve his life circumstances was himself.
17:39
SPEAKER_02: So Oscar had worked very hard in the business world and had done quite well.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: His girlfriend was the daughter of a retired pastor, but Oscar had done his best to show her the lunacy of Christianity, and he succeeded, and she walked away from the faith.
17:55
SPEAKER_02: But on a couple of occasions, Oscar and his girlfriend would attend a church service just to smooth things over with his girlfriend's family.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: A few months later, same kind of conversation.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: It's like someone's getting baptized, a cousin, something like that.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: And as in somebody's backyard, if I remember correctly.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: And same thing, you know, neither of us wanted to go, but we should go to keep the peace.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: We go to just build a relationship with our parents, and it's what we should do.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, all right, you know, I don't want to listen to a sermon again, but sure, I'll go.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: And so we go and we sit down, and this guy gets up and he preaches a sermon as he should, and he starts preaching on the gospel.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: And um, there was nothing that he said that was unique or special.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: He didn't provide any new data or information that I hadn't already heard.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: Again, I knew the gospel.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: But as he was talking, I felt myself being drawn in to the story.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: And it was sort of like this mental wrestling match.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: Like in my mind, I'm like, man, he must be catching you off guard.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: Why am I so interested in this?
19:05
SPEAKER_01: I know this story.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: Like, knock it off, Oscar.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, what'd you eat?
19:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's something going on.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: Like, why am I why am I so compelled right now?
19:13
SPEAKER_01: He presents the gospel.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: And again, it was like a wrestling match.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, I was I was pushing against being drawn into this story.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the thing, he asks everyone to bow their heads to pray.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: And man, I'm telling you, no, no conscious thought, there I am with my head bowed and my eyes closed.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how I got there, I don't know why I did it.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, again, Mr.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: Nonconformist, here I am, bowing my head with a crowd of people.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: And uh he says to us, you know, if you want me to pray for you, just look up at me.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: Just look at me.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: And when you look at me, I know that you want me to pray for you.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like a prayer of salvation, it wasn't this invitation altar call.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: It was just simply, if you want me to pray for you, look at me.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: And in my mind, I was like, I ain't looking up, dude.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: No chance.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm not looking at this guy.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: And Paul, I don't, I don't have a rational argument for this moment.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: I don't even know where my theology stands about this particular moment in my life.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: But it was like somebody whispered in my ear, look up.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: I dare you, look up.
20:27
SPEAKER_01: And I look up at this guy, and he's like staring at me.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: Like he knows I'm about to look up at him, like he he knew, you know.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: And he just says, Thank you.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: This is for you.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: And he begins to pray.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: Man, I physically felt the Holy Spirit.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: It was a physical.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: I all I can explain is it was like a physical moment for me.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't just spiritual, it wasn't just mental.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: It was like something just happened.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: It felt like I was underwater.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: Like I just, what just happened?
21:03
SPEAKER_01: Why did I let that guy pray for me?
21:05
SPEAKER_01: What was what was that thing I felt?
21:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, what is happening, you know?
21:10
SPEAKER_01: Mind you, I'm I'm a pretty militant atheist.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: I was I was prideful in that.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: So I don't, I don't walk up to this guy and tell him, thank you for that prayer, thank you for that sermon.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't look at my girlfriend and go, man, something just happened.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't say anything to anybody.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: I leave as though nothing happened.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: I don't have a language for what happened.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: Like I think looking back, the Lord saved me in that moment.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm confident in saying that, um, that it was the Holy Spirit that came into my life, but I didn't have language for that.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm an atheist.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: I didn't grow up in the church.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: I I'm not gonna, I'm not like, I just felt the Holy Spirit.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: He saved me, and you know, I'm a new believer now.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: Let's get baptized.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't have that kind of language in my in my vocabulary.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: So I'm just like, what just happened?
21:50
SPEAKER_01: And I'm kind of in denial too, to be honest with you.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: And then for the next year of my life, I'm just trying to live the way I always live.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: Making money, hanging out, going out with girls, you know, being being a young 20-something year old guy.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: Something different was happening.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: I I almost thought at that time that I was experiencing some form of depression.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: I now don't think that's what it was.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: What would end up happening was I would go out and you know, have a great time, meet a girl, we'd hang out, sort of like the world, the stars align in the way that like this was awesome, this should be awesome, this should make me happy, this should make me feel like life is going really well.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: And I'd wake up the next morning and I would just feel miserable and ugly and gross and depressed.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: And it was like, what is going on with me?
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Lost a flavor for life.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: Like I can't, just nothing's clicking anymore.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: I was hanging out in Newport Beach.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: With non-Christian friends, and I'm kind of like sick of the moment the party's kind of boring to me.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: And so I walk out onto the sand and I sit down in the sand and I'm looking at the stars.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: There's like this other group of people over here, and this this like guy plops down not too far away from me, and he's like, got a beer in his hand.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: He's like, oh man, like these stars are great, you know.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh yeah, it's cool.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: And he pops a question about God or something.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: And uh he was married, he had a ring on his finger.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: And I remember in that moment I started to think, what, how, how am I gonna make sense of love?
23:51
SPEAKER_01: If there's nothing but neurons and synapses, if we're just atoms and whatever, you know, if we're just if we're just material, then what is love?
24:04
SPEAKER_01: If I ever met a girl, I don't I shouldn't say I love you.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: What I should say is that neurons and synapses fire off in my brain, telling me that you and I should procreate.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: But who wants to live that way?
24:17
SPEAKER_01: There's no denying that there's some sort of love.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: The love is something more than just neuron and synapses.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: That beauty, the truth and beauty is something.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: There's a reason why there's a connection between like the laws of mathematics and music.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: That like there's no denying that there's order to art, to music, you know, and so there's it was almost like I was being haunted by the idea of transcendence in that moment.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: My worldview was starting to not make sense.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: The world around me was no longer making sense as it pertains to the story I was trying to tell myself.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: But that Wednesday night, there were these two girls that lived in my apartment complex, and you know, they were the two cute girls, and I came home from a party or whatever, and they're they were coming home at the same time.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: They were like, oh, you know, we still want to hang out.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, come over.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: And um the three of us ended up getting together that night.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: That was kind of that moment, that aha moment for me, because in my mind I'm like, I'm a 20-something year old guy.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm doing pretty well financially, and I just hit the peak, air quote peak, of like what's supposed to be the most amazing experience that a young man is supposed to have.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like absolute garbage.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: What is happening?
25:42
SPEAKER_01: That was sort of the like that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: This isn't working.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: Like something changed.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: Because that was supposed to be the thing that kicked me out of my slump or whatever it was.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: So when I wake up that morning, you know, the girls are gone, and I'm just like, what is wrong with me, man?
26:00
SPEAKER_01: Like, who am I?
26:02
SPEAKER_01: I can't figure out what's going on.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: But I start to link it.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, man, something, something changed.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: And it happened that night.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: That guy prayed for me.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: Something changed, and I gotta figure out what this is.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: And so I call the only Christian I have in my phone, which is my cousin.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: He works at a church.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: And I don't say anything to him.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, hey, you guys meet.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: When do you meet?
26:27
SPEAKER_01: It's this is Thursday morning.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: He's like, actually, we have a college group Thursday nights, seven o'clock.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: I go, I'll be there.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: That's all I say to him.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm struggling, right?
26:35
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not like, I'm spiritually desperate.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: What is hoping?
26:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm I'm still struggling with my pride.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm still like, I'm an atheist.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't confess to him that this last year has been hard for me, that I don't tell him about this prayer that happened, that things have been different then.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: That's all just way too much to admit, you know.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: So what I don't know is that he turns around, grabs a couple of guys, and is like, hey, my cousin's this militant atheist.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: He's coming to church, and I think he's coming to like argue in protest.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: So he gets a group of guys to wait out front of the church for me to show up.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: And they're like ready to not like fight me, but like ready to like have a conversation with me, make sure I don't make a scene inside the church.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: And so I pull up to church and man, I'm just waving the white flag.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm just I'm here to listen.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm not here to argue, to tell you what I think, to tell you why you're wrong.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm just here to see what's going on.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: So I sat down and first church service happens.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: It was the story of the friends who are desperate to get their friend in front of Jesus, who's a paraplegic, right?
27:39
SPEAKER_01: And as the story goes, you know, they can't get into the living room.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: And so they tear a hole under the roof and they lower their friend down to get in front of Jesus.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: And it's a it's a compelling story.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: It's interesting, but you know, I've got a lot of questions.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: And so the next year or two of my life, like I'm really thankful, man, there was just a few people that came alongside and were willing to like help me understand.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: Is it was hard at times.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: I would get in front of a pastor.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: There's always like that pastor out there that have like that one gotcha line that they want to give you if you ask a question.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes they're answering a question you're not even asking.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: And when you try to dig in a little bit, it's nothing like they've they've got their one-liner and nothing past that.
28:23
SPEAKER_01: There was a lot of that.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: Like I would bounce around from one pastor to another pastor to a youth pastor to the admin executive pastor.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: And it's like some people just didn't know what to do with me.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: They didn't, they didn't know what to do with my questions.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: They wanted to have that one conversation with me and set me straight.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: And I I needed to have a real conversation because I had real questions.
28:44
SPEAKER_02: What are some of these questions?
28:45
SPEAKER_01: You know, the validity of the Bible.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh how do you know God is good?
28:51
SPEAKER_01: You say he's good.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: God says that he's good.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: What if God is just some megalomaniac just saying, I am good, but really he's just as good as he can be?
29:00
SPEAKER_01: And we're just like, okay, that's the standard of good.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: Unique questions for me were those.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: And then there were the standardized questions that that any atheist coming to the table would have.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: It's like, how do we know God is real?
29:10
SPEAKER_01: What about suffering?
29:11
SPEAKER_01: What about the influence of these religious wars in my mind, you know?
29:17
SPEAKER_01: A bunch of those kinds of questions.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: There was this one guy, his name's Casey, and he was like this old, salty, former drug addict that like got saved and just loves the Lord and loves people.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: And he was one of the guys just willing to like sit down with me.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: And he was willing to look at me and go, I don't have an answer to that question.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: But let's figure it out.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: Give me until next Tuesday, and hopefully I can bring something to the table.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: That meant the world to me.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: I now look at it as it's discipleship.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: Like he was willing to disciple me, not just meet me and answer my questions.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: This guy would bring me, he was like, anytime you're hungry, you come over, we always have extra food.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: So I'd have dinner at his place.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: And this is some, you know, 50, 60-year-old guy, former drug addict from Colorado.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: Him and I have nothing in common.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: But he's inviting me to baseball games, he's taking me on vacation with him, he's having me over for dinner, he's letting me stay all hours of the night because I have questions.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: Like he was just willing to disciple me, get me the right books.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: And slowly but surely for some people, when they get saved, Paul, it's like boom, it all made sense.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: That wasn't me.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: It took time.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: I had to unwind a lot of my views of the world because of the things that I'd read and the way that I thought about things.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: Again, I had so much unwinding to do, man.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: I had, I had like I had anger issues.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: And it's, you know, I just found this shirt that I was wearing at the first retreat I ever went to.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: And I'm looking back at it now and I'm like, dude, these people had so much patience for me because I show up at this retreat, Paul, and I'm wearing one of the most vulgar shirts you can possibly imagine.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: It's like punk rock, it's it's pretty sexist.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like walking around with this shirt with this language on it at a youth retreat.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: But man, I'll tell you, I didn't even realize, I didn't even realize it until I found this picture like a year ago that these people just let me show up like that.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: And you're like, man, we're glad you're here.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: No one was like, you got to take that shirt off.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: That's not appropriate.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure they were all thinking it, you know, but they were just willing to answer my questions.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: And there was a few months there where I was like, all right, well, I don't want to just presuppose that Christianity is the way.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I was I was reading pretty broad spiritual books.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: I bought right around that time the Dalai Lama had come out with a book that was like a New York time bestseller.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: And so I read that one.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: And so I was, I was kind of like, as I was exploring Christianity, even though the first call was a Christian, it was actually like the last thing I wanted to be was a Christian.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: And so I just remember at some point it was like, oh man, I think I'm a Christian.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: But this is gonna be really hard because I don't particularly enjoy Christians and I don't like Christian music.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: Like I remember walking into a bookstore, a Christian bookstore, and I've again, this is CD era, you know, and I, and so they have like these rows of CDs, and it's like, if you like cold play, if you like this, if you like that, and I'm like, this music is such a derivative, and that's what it sounded like to me was a derivative, you know?
32:45
SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, it was it was like, all right, all right, I'm following you, Jesus, but I'm not a big fan of these people.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: But again, like those people were the people who were so desperate to get me in front of Jesus.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: They were the ones tearing off that ceiling, the ones being patient with me, discipling me, loving me, just drawing me in with grace.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I was, I was a, I guess I was a reluctant convert, and I was probably came off as a really challenging kid to be trying to disciple, you know.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: It's like, would you just shut up already and believe what I believe?
33:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure a lot of guys were thinking that way as they were talking to me.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: And again, I'm really thankful for the guys that were willing to disciple me and and not have answers.
33:29
SPEAKER_02: In C.S.
33:30
SPEAKER_02: Lewis's autobiography, Surprise by Joy, Lewis describes himself as the most dejected, reluctant convert in all of England.
33:40
SPEAKER_02: Drag into the kingdom, kicking, struggling, resentful, and darting his eyes in every direction for a chance of escape.
33:48
SPEAKER_02: And that pretty much summed up Oscar.
33:50
SPEAKER_02: But despite his misgivings and many questions, he was indeed finally ready to embrace that yes, God was real, Jesus was his actual son, and had died on behalf of Oscar's sins, and wanted Oscar to submit to him.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: Which of course meant that there was an important step of obedience that Oscar needed to take, namely, a public declaration that Oscar's life was no longer his own, but was Christ's.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: I have I have nobody to proclaim this new faith to.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: And so my buddy Kenny, uh, who is a guy I met at church, he was Casey's nephew.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: Kenny, like, we we all walk out, and Kenny's like, all right, let's go.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: Everyone's here for Oscar's, you know, everyone who's here for Oscar's baptism.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: And we start to walk, and I look over to my shoulder, and there's like 40, 50 people walking with us.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: It was just all of these people who were just patient with me, who were willing to answer my questions, who were willing to just let me figure it out, you know, that weren't forcing me into anything.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: And it was, it I saw them as those friends that were tearing a hole in a ceiling trying to get me to Jesus.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: It was God's re way of kind of telling me, I've got a new family for you now, and this is it.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: This is your family.
36:11
SPEAKER_02: God was making all things new, even for a militant atheist like Oscar, and his new spiritual family was only the tip of the iceberg.
36:23
SPEAKER_02: Coming up right after this.
36:30
SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to Compelt.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: Oscar Navarro had grown up in a broken home and had become a very educated and vocal atheist.
36:38
SPEAKER_02: But against all odds, God opened Oscar's eyes to the truth and brought Oscar into the kingdom of heaven.
36:46
SPEAKER_02: But God wasn't going to stop there.
36:48
SPEAKER_02: All his life, the only thing that Oscar had known from his earthly family relationships was dysfunction.
36:55
SPEAKER_02: But God was about to redeem that too.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: And it started with a new friend named Kelly.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: We had mutual friends, and she was not a believer.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: She was in this relationship, uh, married, he was abusive.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: So all I knew of Kelly was hey, this our friend is getting out of like this abusive marriage.
37:18
SPEAKER_01: He cheated on her, she's moving home, she's a single mom.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: And man, we just want to love on her and pray for her.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: And so we started a Bible study to just kind of like, she didn't want to go to church.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: So we're like, all right, well, I had a nice house and let's host a Bible study at my house.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: So we'd have friends come together and we'd have this Bible study with with this girl Kelly, you know?
37:36
SPEAKER_01: And one of those things where, like, after Bible study, she'd hang out a little bit longer than everyone else, and we'd have a conversation, and then she ended up getting saved, and I got to go to her baptism, and then we started spending time together.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: And at some point, I kind of realized I need to either be done with this relationship, or you know, as they say, put a ring on that finger.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm hanging out with a friend, and I and I'm super honest with him.
38:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, man, you know, I think I have these issues of abandonment.
38:09
SPEAKER_01: Like my mom kicked me out when I was 13 years old.
38:13
SPEAKER_01: And if my mom can't love me, who will?
38:16
SPEAKER_01: I remember asking him, like, how do I know she won't get over me, leave me, stop loving me?
38:21
SPEAKER_01: And he was brutally honest.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: He goes, You don't know that.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: That could happen.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: But your mom kicking you out, that wasn't your fault.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: There's not some chip on your shoulder that made her kick you out.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: Like that was on her.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: And that sounds like the most simple piece of truth that hey, that's not your fault.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: But man, it was so profound for me in that moment.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: It was like this moment of freedom of like, oh yeah, this isn't my fault.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: I can be vulnerable with people.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: I can I can love, I can be dependent on another person.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: And so um it was it was like a really good moment of clarity for me.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: He ended up asking Kelly into marrying me a few months later, and and so yeah, we're married, three kids, and I think that that's just a testimony to God being transformative in my life, you know, really going to work and making that happen.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: Oscar and Kelly were married in 2011, and the following year, Oscar became an assistant vice president at Merrill Lynch.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: But just a few years later, Oscar concluded that God was calling him into full-time ministry, and he began a role at the Evangelism Outreach Living Waters.
39:40
SPEAKER_02: Life had reached a great rhythm.
39:42
SPEAKER_02: Oscar and Kelly were growing together, their children were delightful, and Oscar's work was meaningful, but there was still one area in Oscar's life that felt unsettled.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: My wife was always curious about why I never had an interest in reaching out to my biological father.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: I explained to her when I first became a Christian, and I started to find these passages about God being my father in heaven.
40:12
SPEAKER_01: I remember talking to a mentor and like, how's how is he my father in heaven?
40:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, like he didn't teach me how to throw a football or how to shave or how to pay my bills.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, help me understand how God's my father in heaven.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: That sounds theologically amazing, but practically speaking, how does it affect my life?
40:28
SPEAKER_01: And this mentor was like, man, that's a good question.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: You should it was that same mentor, Casey, he's like, that you should pray and ask God, show me how you are my father in heaven.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: And I can tell you, over time, the Lord did show me that through mentors and friendships and his word.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: Like, truly, I did not have this like missing father syndrome.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: I didn't have a gap in my life.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: Like God was my father in heaven, and I just had no reason to reach out to my biological father.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: There was, I didn't, I had nothing to gain from it.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: My wife was always curious, like, don't you want to know if you have siblings?
41:08
SPEAKER_01: Don't you want to know if he has any health conditions that would be passed on to you?
41:12
SPEAKER_01: And in my mind, I'm like, I don't know, those aren't good enough reasons to reach out to this guy, you know?
41:17
SPEAKER_01: So one day I'm talking to a pastor friend, Doug Logan, and he starts telling me how dads who have abandoned their children will often walk around with shame and guilt, and that not a day goes by where those people don't think about their children that is not in their life.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: I thought, man, what an amazing opportunity to preach the gospel right at the heart of someone's shame and guilt.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: That there would this be this man who abandoned his son, and that that son would be able to preach grace into his life, that's a good reason to reach out to this guy.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm down.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, that was like, I got my reason.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: Let's do this.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: And so I did some research, figured out where him and mom lived when I was born, and I knew his name.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: Side note, the name thing's kind of funny.
42:16
SPEAKER_01: You don't realize, like, when you have a a mom that struggles with addiction, everything is disordered.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, when you go get your driver's license, everyone, you know, you need your birth certificate and you just go get it or whatever.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: So at 15, I go to get my driver's permit.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: And I go to my mom and I go, hey, I need my birth certificate.
42:34
SPEAKER_01: She doesn't have it.
42:34
SPEAKER_01: I go to my grandma, I need my birth certificate, she doesn't have it.
42:37
SPEAKER_01: And so uh we go to the courthouse or whatever.
42:40
SPEAKER_01: Hey, we need birth certificate for Oscar Navarro, born on this day at this year at this hospital.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, we don't have an Oscar Navarro born at this day and at that hospital.
42:52
SPEAKER_01: And my mom goes, Your last name might be Hernandez.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, what?
42:59
SPEAKER_01: I've never heard that name before in my life, dude.
43:02
SPEAKER_01: I was Oscar.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: My everything, all everything for school said Oscar Navarro, my soccer jerseys all said Oscar Navarro.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: I was always Oscar Navarro.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: And she goes, try Oscar Luis Hernandez II.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, who is the what kind of name?
43:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, she's like, I think you were named after your biological father.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: So it turns out I'm 15 years old when I find out my name is Oscar Luis Hernandez II.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: So I get my birth certificate and my first driver's license at Oscar Luis Hernandez II.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: I went and changed my name to Oscar Navarro when I was getting married, because like that was the name I grew up with.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
43:37
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know who this Hernandez guy was.
43:40
SPEAKER_01: So, anyways, I've got his name, Oscar Luis Hernandez I.
43:44
SPEAKER_01: There's three different numbers that could be him.
43:46
SPEAKER_01: So I call all three numbers.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: Hey, this is Oscar.
43:49
SPEAKER_01: I was born on this day.
43:51
SPEAKER_01: My grandma's name is this, my mom's name is that.
43:54
SPEAKER_01: If that all sounds familiar to you, give me a call.
43:57
SPEAKER_01: This is my phone number.
43:58
SPEAKER_01: I'll leave that message in English and in Spanish for all three of these numbers because he was born in Mexico.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: So he may only know Spanish, you know.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: The next day I get a phone call and it's a number that kind of looks like one of the numbers I called.
44:13
SPEAKER_01: And so I answer it, and it's this guy in Spanish, like thrilled.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: He's just like, hey, it's me.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: It's me.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm your dad.
44:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm your dad.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm like, okay, you know, let's let's meet.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: I'd love to meet you if you're interested.
44:27
SPEAKER_01: I absolutely want to meet you.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm like, hey, let's meet at Starbucks, like, you know, Switzerland Mutual Ground.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: And mind you, I was told he left two weeks before my first birthday.
44:40
SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, I'm showing up to the Starbucks like 30, 45 minutes early.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna get my spot in the corner.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna know my surroundings, I'm gonna control the situation.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
44:49
SPEAKER_01: I get there super early.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: I get out of my car, I close the door, I turn around, and there's this dude coming right into me, gives me this big ol' hug, and he's already crying.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, son, son, you know?
45:02
SPEAKER_01: And he shows me these pictures.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: Of him and I up until I was like four or five years old.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: Mind you, my memory is all weird from the sexual abuse.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: And even the timeline, now that I'm thinking about it, like it's all, it's all just weird in my brain.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: But he was around until I was four or five, and he's got like pictures of me and him flying a kite at this park, me and him at lunch and dinner, me sitting on his lap on a ride.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: And I'm looking at these pictures, and some of them I have these memories.
45:31
SPEAKER_01: But in my mind, I'm like, oh, that was like this uncle or this friend or this.
45:35
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know it was him, you know?
45:37
SPEAKER_01: He's like, Will you come over to my house and meet my wife?
45:41
SPEAKER_01: And I've got these two boys.
45:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, I want you to meet them.
45:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh and uh his name's Oscar, my name's Oscar.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: I guess he gets married, and they start to try to find me.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: They can't find me.
45:55
SPEAKER_01: And so they ended up naming my brother, who's 10 years younger than me, Oscar.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: So I got a dad named Oscar, I'm Oscar, and I got a younger brother named Oscar.
46:05
SPEAKER_01: So he brings me over to his house, dude, and they're just this sweet family.
46:11
SPEAKER_01: They've got pictures of me, they've got this like calendar, and he can date it.
46:17
SPEAKER_01: Like he would flip back, and it was like, you know, he turned five, Oscar's six, Oscar's seven, Oscar's, you know, 35 years old.
46:25
SPEAKER_01: Like they had, they marked my birthday May 12th, every single year as the years ticked on.
46:32
SPEAKER_01: Their neighbors knew about me, like around Christmas and Easter and my birthday, they would just like wonder when's when's our older brother coming home?
46:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, where is he?
46:42
SPEAKER_01: What is he doing?
46:43
SPEAKER_01: My two younger brothers were like, Man, all my friends know about you.
46:46
SPEAKER_01: We always just kind of wondered if you'd ever come back.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: When my brothers get old enough to help dad realize, you know, you could use the internet to try to find him.
46:55
SPEAKER_01: The whole time they're out looking for Oscar Luis Hernandez.
46:58
SPEAKER_01: And I'm Oscar Navarro.
47:00
SPEAKER_01: So they can't find me on social media because I'm not going by Oscar Hernandez, you know?
47:05
SPEAKER_01: It's funny because in my mind, I had this biological father out there who was some drug addict, probably drunk on the street somewhere.
47:12
SPEAKER_01: And he was just this sweet, humble family man with this small little family that just wanted me to come home.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: And what happened was my mom met the guy who was sexually abusive, and he convinced my mom we kind of need to push Oscar's biological father out and start our own life, you know?
47:33
SPEAKER_01: And so my mom like tried to push him out of our lives.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: She changed a phone number, and he's at that time like spoke primarily just Spanish.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: Now he pretty much only speaks Spanish as well.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: So contextually, you have to understand this is the 80s.
47:49
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't have access to the internet, he has no idea what his legal rights are, he doesn't know to call a lawyer, an attorney, he doesn't know to fight with the court system to make sure he has visitation rights.
48:01
SPEAKER_01: That's just not on his radar.
48:03
SPEAKER_01: So when my mom starts dating this guy, I'm told that she was asking my biological father for money.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, she met him in a parking lot one day.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: He handed her money.
48:13
SPEAKER_01: And then I was in the passenger seat and she said, you know, go say goodbye to Oscar.
48:17
SPEAKER_01: This is the last time you're gonna see him.
48:19
SPEAKER_01: And he was like, wait, what, you know?
48:20
SPEAKER_01: And so he kind of like gives me a hug and a kiss, and he's telling her, no, no.
48:24
SPEAKER_01: And so a few weeks goes by and he's leaving notes at her office, and he's trying to stay in touch through family members.
48:31
SPEAKER_01: But my mom moves, and I went and asked my mom about it.
48:35
SPEAKER_01: And she was like, Yeah, you know, it's true.
48:37
SPEAKER_01: I did do that.
48:38
SPEAKER_01: And she got really emotional and she started to apologize, and uh, she was like, Man, I feel like I robbed you of a father.
48:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry.
48:47
SPEAKER_01: I can't help but wonder what your life would have been like had you had your father in your life.
48:53
SPEAKER_01: And I told her, and I meant it as sincerely as I said it.
48:57
SPEAKER_01: I said, I totally forgive you.
49:01
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not even, I'm not wondering what my life would have been like because my life is so blessed now that if you change one thing about my past, the present changes.
49:13
SPEAKER_01: And so God was just orchestrating this life for me.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: And and it is good and it is beautiful.
49:20
SPEAKER_01: And so not only do I forgive you, but like no resentment, no what-ifs.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: Like it is good.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: God is good, and and I am so pleased with what he's done with my life.
49:31
SPEAKER_01: This new relationship with my biological father was weird.
49:35
SPEAKER_01: Because again, I didn't have parents growing up in this in that context, you know.
49:39
SPEAKER_01: So I remember like a week or two after I met him, my phone rings and it's him.
49:44
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh, this is interesting.
49:45
SPEAKER_01: Hello?
49:46
SPEAKER_01: Hey son, he speaks Spanish.
49:47
SPEAKER_01: He's like, hey son, how's your day?
49:49
SPEAKER_01: How's it going?
49:50
SPEAKER_01: What how are the kids?
49:51
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just calling to say hi.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, just calling to say hi?
49:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, what is going on here?
49:57
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm I'm not used to that kind of fatherly, just like checking in.
50:02
SPEAKER_01: Can I take you to lunch?
50:03
SPEAKER_01: Can I buy you dinner?
50:05
SPEAKER_01: Can I treat your family to a meal?
50:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm just not used to that, you know?
50:09
SPEAKER_01: And I used to tell people having a dad was like, it, I don't know if you've ever done this where you like you buy a shirt that you really like, but maybe you need to lose a few pounds before you can fit in it, you know?
50:19
SPEAKER_01: It's like your gull shirt that's sitting in your closet.
50:21
SPEAKER_01: You're like, I hope I can fit in that one day.
50:23
SPEAKER_01: That's what it was like.
50:24
SPEAKER_01: I had this dad in my life, and it was, it was cool.
50:27
SPEAKER_01: Like it was neat, but it was uncomfortable because I'm just not used to that kind of affection.
50:32
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
50:33
SPEAKER_01: Like we there was this earthquake, and he calls me, he's like, hey, is everything okay?
50:36
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, uh, yeah.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you need?
50:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, not in a negative, like, I wasn't, I wasn't actually saying that to him, but like it was just weird.
50:44
SPEAKER_01: It was just a different experience having a parent that was around, that was interested.
50:51
SPEAKER_01: My younger brother Oscar, he's getting married, and he asks me to officiate the wedding.
50:56
SPEAKER_01: And of course I say yes.
50:58
SPEAKER_01: And so we're at the wedding, and the reception was in my dad's backyard, and we're walking around, and every corner I turn, my dad's there, and he's throwing his arm around me, and he's looking at like his neighbor, and he's like, Have you met my son?
51:18
SPEAKER_01: This is my son.
51:20
SPEAKER_01: He's like his best friend, have you met my son?
51:24
SPEAKER_01: His like cousin or brother, every family member, everywhere I go, he's like, This is my son.
51:29
SPEAKER_01: Have you met my son?
51:33
SPEAKER_01: In that moment, it was like God was teaching me about his fatherly love.
51:43
SPEAKER_01: God is our father in heaven, who's got his arm around us through the blood of Jesus, and is just like, this is my son.
51:53
SPEAKER_01: This is my son.
51:56
SPEAKER_01: And so while I didn't have this fatherly shaped hole in my life, God did use the reunion of my earthly father to teach me something about his fatherly love towards me.
52:12
SPEAKER_01: It was edifying, encouraging, healing.
52:17
SPEAKER_01: Again, to go back to that lie the devil placed in my heart and my mom kicked me out.
52:22
SPEAKER_01: Like you're not good enough.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: There's something wrong with you.
52:26
SPEAKER_01: What that does in a person is it makes them think that they need to earn anybody and everybody's love.
52:32
SPEAKER_01: It makes love feel like it's contingent upon something.
52:36
SPEAKER_01: Like you you can mess this up.
52:38
SPEAKER_01: Man, it was just God's way of reminding me that my love is not contingent upon you.
52:43
SPEAKER_01: My love is contingent upon my love for you.
52:49
SPEAKER_01: So to this day we have a great relationship.
52:51
SPEAKER_01: They're around for all my kids' birthdays, and um, he still calls me.
52:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, I have an open standing invitation.
52:58
SPEAKER_01: Anytime I want, I can just get breakfast, lunch, or dinner with him.
53:01
SPEAKER_01: He's just down, you know.
53:02
SPEAKER_01: My stepmom is amazing, my two brothers are super cool.
53:08
SPEAKER_01: God has been so good.
53:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm thankful for the man that he's created me to be.
53:13
SPEAKER_01: He's given me a life that I so did not plan for myself.
53:16
SPEAKER_01: If you would have asked 21, 22-year-old Oscar, like I wanted to be a businessman living in a high-rise tower with no kids, and the freedom, the air quote freedom to do whatever I wanted when I wanted.
53:29
SPEAKER_01: And now, dude, there's nothing extraordinary about my life.
53:32
SPEAKER_01: I am an ordinary man.
53:33
SPEAKER_01: The most extraordinary thing about me is I've got three kids and a wife.
53:37
SPEAKER_01: And the most extraordinary moments of my life is truly, man, like sitting at home, goofing off, playing board games with my kids, raising them up in God's word, praying with them, which is like a foreign concept for both me and my wife, because neither of us grew up Christian.
53:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm just I'm so thankful for those simple yet profound moments in this life that I have that is just so not the life I wanted for myself.
54:04
SPEAKER_01: But it is so much better than the life I wanted for myself, and I've got the Lord to thank for that.
54:09
SPEAKER_02: As our time together came to an end, Oscar poignantly summarized his story.
54:17
SPEAKER_01: The best way to describe what God has done in my life is he's helped me know myself as a son who is loved by a father.
54:30
SPEAKER_01: And that might sound so simple.
54:33
SPEAKER_01: But I think if you meditate on that, when you really explore what those words mean, a son who is loved by a heavenly father, you'll come to understand who you are as well.
54:47
SPEAKER_01: The reality that we are sons and daughters of a father in heaven who rules and reigns over all creation, who knows us fully, and loves us anyway.
54:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's, man, that's my story.
54:59
SPEAKER_01: That's the story of God loving me, of God choosing me, saving me, adopting me.
55:06
SPEAKER_01: Awesome, man.
55:07
SPEAKER_02: Dude, thanks for coming and share.
55:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks, bro.
55:09
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
55:16
SPEAKER_02: In some ways, Oscar's story reminds me of the prodigal son.
55:20
SPEAKER_02: For years, Oscar ran away from and rebelled and rejected anything related to God the Father.
55:26
SPEAKER_02: Oscar wanted nothing to do with him and even denied that he existed.
55:31
SPEAKER_02: But God, the good father, patiently drew Oscar in with open arms, even as Oscar continued to stiff arm the church and those who loved him.
55:40
SPEAKER_02: And then in a crazy twist, Oscar had a physical, earthly father who had been waiting decades for him to literally return, who had never forgotten about him and kept his photos in the calendar of his birthdays.
55:54
SPEAKER_02: And then after their reunion, he went around to everyone saying, Have you met my son?
55:59
SPEAKER_02: Have you seen my son?
56:01
SPEAKER_02: This is my son who was lost, but now is found.
56:06
SPEAKER_02: What a picture of God, our good father.
56:11
SPEAKER_02: If you enjoyed today's story, then we have over a hundred other compelled testimonies from every walk of life that you can imagine, including martyrs, missionaries, astronauts, drug addicts, gangsters, gamblers, alcoholics, ku klux, clan terrorists, and more, all who have seen their lives transformed by Christ.
56:30
SPEAKER_02: Just visit compelledpodcast.com or search for compelled on your podcast app.
56:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Paul Hastings, and you've been listening to Compelled.
56:38
SPEAKER_02: We'll be back next time with another compelling story.
56:41
SPEAKER_02: We'll see you then.