Latest / Skin Anarchy / The Science of NAD+ and the Art of ARAMORE Skincare with Co-founder Diana Saville

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The Science of NAD+ and the Art of ARAMORE Skincare with Co-founder Diana Saville · Skin Anarchy

0:02
SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Skincare Anarchy.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Ecta, and I am so so excited about this interview because this is a brand that I have absolutely, without exaggerating, like real talk, fallen in love with this brand.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: Literally use it every day.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: I've been using it for consistently three months.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna dive into all the amazing results I've noticed with you guys, but I really want to like kind of dive into the interview.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the head of research for the brand Aramore, Diana Seville.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, Diana.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm so honored to be interviewing you.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: Hello, thank you so much for having me on the show.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to be here.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm so so excited to host you.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: And like I said, I am your number one fan, you know, Armor's number one fan.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: I really love the brand.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: And I think what you guys have done here is truly magical, especially with OTC products.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: And as you know, Diana, we have so many now in the industry, and it's very hard for consumers to find that great, great brand.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: So I want to talk about that in a little bit, but I would love to get started with you and your very impressive background in science and research.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: If you could tell us a little bit about your background.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, sure.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: So I'm co-founder and head of research for Aramor, and it kind of surprises me that I find myself in this space of skincare because really my research has been in longevity, it's been in natural compounds for dietary health, it's been in brain science, it's been in molecular biochemistry, it's been in all these different places, and it's taken me on this incredible journey where I had the opportunity to work with this team.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: So, my original background is in I studied biochemistry at Harvard University.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: And then I pursued a PhD in molecular biology at University of California, Berkeley, where I ended up taking a detour.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: I was doing some really interesting work around molecular genetics there, but I had this artistic side to me that I found an avenue for it out at Berkeley, which is it's right next to the Pixar studios.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: And a number of the actually Pixar animators had come together to do 3D visualizations of the science with a number of my professors.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: And I got so excited by that.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: I took a leave of absence from university to do science storytelling.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: And that's a whole other I could go for a long time to tell you about my work in a 3D scientific animation with these incredible Pixar animators.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: But eventually it took me on a journey of scientific storytelling and helping researchers to tell the story of their research through visualization.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: And that's actually how I built this network that I manage now called Brain Mind, which is a community that is directed to bring resources into underfunded Valley of Death brain science research.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: And that's actually how I met my co-founder at Aramore.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: So for a number of years, in between those two points in my career, I was working with a physician team, a number of concierge physicians team actually, to help people to identify dietary compounds that might help them live longer and healthier lives.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: And we would do deep research into large longitudinal studies that proved that if you eat this many papayas per week, it's really down to that level of detail that you know, this particular amount of tomatoes and which kinds of tomatoes would you have to eat to reduce your risk of prostate cancer?
3:23
SPEAKER_00: And is it San Marzano tomatoes or is it another type of tomato?
3:26
SPEAKER_00: So we were doing this really deep research and combing through large randomized clinical trials to observational studies and just looking at what we're going to do or not.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: And that's what really piqued my interest into this whole longevity space.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: So it's a very meandering path that I took to end up here.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: But in the process of writing dietary guidance for the Obama White House on cancer prevention, it sort of just opened my eyes to the possibilities of natural compounds and how they can benefit human health.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: And I brought that into my work at Brain Mind, where we do work on dietary interventions for things like concussion or long COVID, things to do with long-term information of the brain.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: And so I've just always been really deeply interested in how diet and lifestyle impacts health, how that's generally underfunded and understudied.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: Really, in the pharmaceutical world, you can make a lot of money from a drug, but you can't make money prescribing broccoli to people.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: You can't make money telling people to eat a certain amount of tomatoes per week.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: And it's always been this really difficult space inhabited by mostly kind of nonprofits and foundations, frankly, because it's very difficult to bring venture funding and this into this type of inquiry.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: And that's actually how I ended up doing this kind of work is one of the folks who was part of my neuroscience ecosystem that's funding mental health research, his name is Stephen Kennedy Smith.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: And he's actually the chairman of this company, Armor.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: He came to me and he said, I didn't realize you had a background in dietary compounds and natural compounds.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: Tell me more about that.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: And we sat down and just went really deep into this topic of why there isn't enough research in this space.
5:10
SPEAKER_00: And actually, there's some really interesting a lot of the really big studies in this space are actually funded in Europe and in Asia.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: And I was talking to him about some of the larger studies that where you can actually glean information that's backed by real science on diet and the things that you can do differently in your life to live longer, live healthier, prevent cancer, prevent diabetes, and so on.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: And he just said, look, this is so interesting to me.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: And I'm pulling this team together around the longevity and skin.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, does that interest you?
5:38
SPEAKER_00: And here I was, you know, 39 years old during the pandemic, going through all the stress, two babies.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you know, actually, that is quite interesting to me.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, why not?
5:46
SPEAKER_01: Let's add that to my plate.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: And I did, it was in the middle of COVID, and we did have a little bit more time because my brain mind is focused on kind of in-person convening.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: So I had a minute to kind of sit down and do some deep research.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: And he said, Why don't you come speak to my team?
6:01
SPEAKER_00: And I thought maybe he just had a chief science officer somebody like this.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: And so I prepared a Google Doc about the major learnings over 10 years of doing this dietary research.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: I pulled together a Google Doc of my favorite compounds, let's call it.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: So I was identifying the different combinations of natural compounds that really moved the needle the most in terms of the data that I had looked at.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: And I sat down on a Zoom call with what I thought was going to be one or two people.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: And then who is on this call but some of the most heavy-hitting faculty at Harvard, MIT, UCSF, head of stem cell institutes, some of the most rock star protein chemists, clinical dermatologists.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: It was just this unbelievable team that I was presenting to on this topic, and they were really interested in it.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: They had all these questions, and we dove down really deep.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: And that started this year-long collaboration of discussion and comparison of research and deep dive on meta-research on what compounds really could make a difference for skin and longevity.
6:59
SPEAKER_01: Wow, that is so, so impressive.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: And I love that you have gone that route.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: This is just to give some context to this because a lot of times with OTC products, especially in the realm of skincare, especially in the realm of wellness, there's, yeah, there's research and people do clinical trials and all of that.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: That's wonderful, right?
7:18
SPEAKER_01: But we never really get to experience there's a committee behind this.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of really, really just great researchers that came together and great minds came together to come up with what needs to be done.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: And I think that the essence of that is what, to be honest, in my opinion, that's what's really lacking in the industry right now.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: Like that lack of that scientific input coming in from the academia side of things, you know, and really coming in in a way that's like, no, let's look at everything across the board and then identify, like you guys did.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, you found the best compounds, you found the best things that could be potentially applied to this model.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: And so that's very, very big.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: So I really applaud you for doing that because we need to see that more, honestly, everywhere we do.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: And I think that is really lacking in space, by the way, though.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: I don't know of a team that brings this kind of not just academic cloud, but the clinical research experience, the drug development experience.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: He really put together a drug development team and he pulled them from all these disparate spaces and expertise areas.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: And I think he did that with the intention of doing something different that he had never seen before in that space.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I really respect about it.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: And most of the team, by the way, is female scientists-led and clinical terminology, protein chemistry, stem cell biology, cutaneous biology, and then my background in tetral compounds.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: It was like there was no stone that we left unturned.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: And we didn't have the kind of typical constraints that a company might have where it's like, oh, we have the following proprietary compound that we have to use and we're just going to push that.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: No, he basically gave us unlimited time and limited budget and said, you come up with the product that you would actually want to use.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: And why that was particularly cool is I was a person who I didn't really even take supplements because I understood the perverse incentives going on in the industry where because it's not as regulated as a drug, any kind of supplement, you can basically say whatever you want on the bottle.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: You can advertise this and that.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: There's very little regulation around what can be said about a supplement.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: And it's very difficult to track down exactly where that supplement was sourced.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: Do they actually have the amount of the ingredient that they say that they have in the product?
9:22
SPEAKER_00: And so I came in very kind of untrusting of the supplement space and saying, look, if I'm going to get my nutrients, I'm going to try to get it from Whole Foods.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: And I, better than anyone, knew the limitations of that because I had been looking at these studies where, like, are you going to eat a papaya every single day to reduce your risk of barrier cancer by 81%?
9:40
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's a lot of papaya.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: And not everybody is going to, yeah, and some of these, the compounds that we're looking at, they come in these, for example, traditional Chinese medicine ingredients like holy basil.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: This is very pungent, flavorful.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: You're not going to be like ripping off leaves of holy basil and chewing them up and eating them or like turmeric.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's I don't know if you've ever tried to down get turmeric tea, but if you actually put the amount of turmeric you'd really need to consume in there, it's too potent.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: So I knew there was an opportunity, but I didn't trust the industry because I didn't think that anything else out there was going to approach it with honesty and integrity because ultimately they're trying to make a buck.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: And so this was a credible opportunity was I can we can formulate it ourselves.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, we can actually build this the way that we would want to take it.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: And the dermatologist, Serena Elmiraya, who led the topical formulations, we choose the same thing.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: She's like, you know what?
10:30
SPEAKER_00: Half the time I just use Vaseline.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: And she just didn't believe in the products out there.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: So this was her opportunity to formulate something topical that she was excited to use herself.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: No, see, I this is why I really, really love that it is like, you know, what I was saying, it's a science-led initiative, but also a science-backed initiative to the umptiest degree, because unfortunately, exactly what you said, not only just supplements, even in topical skincare.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've seen things like we were talking about turmeric mass or serum or something that's really chouting out a natural ingredient or like any botanical, and they're saying that we are really harvesting the potential of this botanical, but then you have no way of telling, did it actually stay in a viable state?
11:13
SPEAKER_01: And you extracted it.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: How did you extract it?
11:15
SPEAKER_01: How did you incorporate it?
11:17
SPEAKER_01: And I remember for me, I grew up in a family of scientists, and my dad did a lot of natural product research as well, and in terms of like his work with microbiology and whatnot, but there's a lot of potential here in terms of like killing off certain microbes and then also altering hormonal responses in your body.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: Botanicals are the most untapped, I think, area in OTC, if you ask me.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: So when you're doing anything with them, it has to be absolutely like the best of the best has to happen in terms of the scientific equipment, you know what I mean?
11:48
SPEAKER_01: The lab equipment you're using, what lab facilities you're using, all of that.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's absolutely wonderful.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: And I think that it's wonderful that you guys are coming from this angle, you know?
11:57
SPEAKER_01: It's very refreshing to see that, and I love that.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: But I want to actually dive into this because I think it's really important to talk about some of the things that were discovered along the way when you're creating the product.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: So I think a good place I would love to learn about is uh circadian rhythms and how it relates to skin health and supplements and what you guys were creating, how the circadian rhythm came into play.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: So circadian rhythms really refers to the way your body naturally responds to external cues, like things like light and temperature, and it kick starts processes in the body that prepare you to rest, for example.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: Getting tired at night is mediated by a circadian rhythm, but most people are aware of that one, may not be aware that circadian rhythms govern the function of all of your other organs as well, including the skin, including the liver, including your metabolism.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: And so we took this into consideration when we developed our formulations because we have day formulations and we have night formulations.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: We have a day supplement and a night supplement.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: So we have this opportunity to play with our formulations so that it actually worked well with the natural rhythms of your skin and body.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: And I could give you a couple of examples of that if you want.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes, please.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: So here's an example.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: So your DNA repair process.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: So this is the process by which your body actually fixes little breaks and bond malformations that happen within your DNA throughout the day as a result of environmental exposure and also just natural DNA damage that happens with aging.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: So this repair process peaks at night, mediated by circadian rhythms.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: And so one of the things we thought about when we were bringing NAD precursors into our supplement, the systemic supplement what you actually take as a dietary supplement, we thought about the fact that your blood concentrations are gonna peak about 12 hours after you take the niacinamide dose, for example, that we included in our day formulation.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: And we got excited about there is so you're gonna take this like maybe eight in the morning, nine, 10 in the morning, whenever you take your first meal, and it will then actually get the blood peak of NAD in the body in the evening.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: And NAD is a compound that's deeply involved in DNA repair.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: And so what we're doing is we're bringing in that max concentration into your blood as you're going to bed and as your cell proliferation and your DNA repair actually starts to go into high gear.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: Another thing to note just about sleep in general, by the way, we have this incredible ingredient in our dietary supplement called coenzyme Q10 or CoQ10, which is a fantastic ingredient, but it is actually known, we caught somewhere in the literature, that it's known to actually induce a little bit of wakefulness, which makes sense because it boosts your metabolism.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: It's complementary to the NAD plus precursors that we used.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: And so we did not include CoQ10 in the evening supplement because we didn't want it waking you up at night.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: Another example, your liver function actually peaks at 1 a.m.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: Your liver detoxifies your blood, and it's doing that at its maximum capacity at 1 a.m.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: in the morning.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: And so we have a compound from actually milk thistle, which is a natural compound called the sillimarin that supports liver function.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: And we use that in the night supplement again so that it's timed with a maximum capacity of when that organ is doing its work.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: And we've got examples for moisture loss at night, cell proliferation, restoration, UV sensitivity.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: People may not know actually that skin may actually be more susceptible to UV damage in the morning, which is why so many dermatologists will tell you first thing in the morning, that's when you apply that sunscreen.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: And there's a reason for that.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: It's just that increased sensitivity.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: And it's probably because overnight your skin barrier becomes more permeable, you have more moisture loss, you've just gone through your peak of cell proliferation at night, which is another thing that peaks at night that people may not think.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: You think your cell proliferation might actually be happening during the day.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: It's really during that rejuvenation period, that restoration period at night.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: No, those are great.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you brought that up because I think that one thing is we always hear about at night, you're going through a lot of stuff, but I mean, we don't understand how much healing is taking place at night.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: Even with P there have been studies done with like burn victims where you look at the rate of recovery of the wound and you look at it at different time points, right?
16:06
SPEAKER_01: And then you will notice that at night it's exponentially higher the rate of recovery.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: And that's when your cell your cells are actually proliferating more at night.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: So if you're gonna close a wound, you need that cell proliferation.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: It makes sense.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: And also, like I was really glad you brought up CoQ10 because a while ago I wrote a paper about niacinamide synergistic effects with CoQ10.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that I was yeah, I it was it was really fun to write because I didn't realize how much synergy there is between both of them.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: And also like niacinamide, I did a side note, but what I was reading was a lot of it was involved in even things like you know, glioblastoma, which is the hardest cancer to ever, you know, try to cure.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're never gonna be able to get rid of it, but it's the most aggressive brain cancer.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: Is actually niacin is involved in shrinking that actual cancer, you know, those tumors.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: And so there's a lot of synergy that's going on in this, these energetic pathways that we are just now tapping into from a science perspective.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: We don't know how a lot of these things are working together to not only maintain energy balance for your cells, but then also then utilize that same potential to then heal.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: And because everything requires energy, as you know, Diana, but for everyone listening, everything requires energy that your body does, including your healing, including protein synthesis, everything.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: And so when you supply your body with the precursors, that is just setting it up for like success, I feel like.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: Like it's just yeah, it's giving it what it needs, basically.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: So I love it.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: I think it's such a brilliant, brilliant topic.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: And with that, I want to actually talk about NAD plus a little bit and talk about um just how were you guys able to deliver this in a topical system, especially because I know with supplements you can it's very important to ingest things, you know, as they are, but topically things can be very difficult.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: So could you tell us a little bit about the NAD, maybe define it for everyone listening and then dive into that?
17:55
SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: So NAD plus is a critical coenzyme, it's a molecule found in all living cells, and it is known to play a key role in cellular metabolism.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: And so, what is cellular metabolism?
18:08
SPEAKER_00: It is many things, but really the energy production and use in the cell.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: And so um, some of these processes of cellular metabolism that NAD plus plays a direct role in.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: So there's energy production, DNA repair, but also things like response to inflammation and stress resistance, exercise recovery, all of these things play into cellular metabolism.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: And the other thing to know about NAD plus and why it's of particular interest in longevity research is that levels of NAD plus in the body naturally decrease with age.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: Age is, of course, linked to various age-related health issues.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: So the idea is that maintaining optimal levels of NAD plus in the body might actually help managing metabolic health and managing healthy aging.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: And why we talk about NAD precursors versus NAD plus is that you cannot just take NAD plus through dietary means.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: It actually has to be produced inside of the body to be used effectively.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: So it's actually in drug development terms, you have to use what's called a pro drug, where you actually put in something that is a precursor to that molecule, or another way to say it is like a preliminary ingredient that you have to make the cake, right?
19:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: So we use the NAD precursors in our formulations, both our topical and our supplements, in order to boost the body's naturally produced NAD levels.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: So it takes these things as fuels, the amiacinamide and the NMN, these precursors, and it uses them as the building blocks to make the NAD plus.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: And then it kind of triggers this system of energy metabolism.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, and you wanted to ask about kind of why we used it both topically and as a supplement.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: So there's research on both, and we really felt we wanted to be comprehensive in our approach and that we wanted to support longevity both from the outside in and the inside out.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: But in particular, what excited us about using NAD precursors was the work of Dr.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: Anna Mananova at Harvard Stem Cell Institute.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: Her research showed from a topical point of view that you could use NAD precursors to activate stem cell networks within the skin.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: Just looking at skin explants, which are sort of like sections of skin.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: So that was really interesting to us, and that inspired us to actually develop these NAD precursors, not just as part of the supplement system, but part of the topical as well.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: That's extraordinary.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that was possible to do that with NAD.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: That's really cool.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: About the stem cells.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think we we talk a lot about stem cells and skin care.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: They always show up in the wrong way, in my opinion.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: Well, this was why it was so important to carefully look at this, right?
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Because you don't want too much cellular growth in the skin because you don't want skin cancer.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: You want the right kind of stem cell proliferation.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: And you don't want to be slathering on stem cells from plants on your skin.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: No, you don't.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: I just want to say that.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, I had to do it because I keep seeing the products, you know what I mean?
20:58
SPEAKER_01: So I just that's not the right way.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: But this is really cool.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: That's a really cool way to like really apply stem cell research to, you know, something that you can get OTC because I think a lot of times we learn, I mean, I always say this, and I don't know if you agree, Dana, but like researchers and scientists, we learn a lot from the OTC space as well.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: I've seen a lot of things that are out here, and I'm like, oh, I didn't know you could do this, you know, and then you take it back to the lab or to the you know drawing board and you really start to understand that there's a lot of potential and a lot of the ingredients that we do see in our products, but it's also important to acknowledge that sometimes the brands might not have gone deep enough with the science to really understand where is the real potential here with these molecules and these different chemicals.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: So with your brand, I think that's what really has made me fall in love over the past several months is that obviously I'm seeing results, and I love the results I'm seeing, but the science is adding up.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: And that is so rare for me.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: And I think most consumers, we don't really see where people always say, we're a science backed brand, we're a dermatologist.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Back brand, but then where do we see it?
22:01
SPEAKER_01: Where does that come from?
22:02
SPEAKER_00: Where is your science?
22:03
SPEAKER_00: Where are your obsessive spreadsheets?
22:05
SPEAKER_00: I can show you mine.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: So it's really, really phenomenal.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: Now, I want to actually like shift gears a little bit.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: You had talked about NMN.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: Maybe we could dive a little bit deeper into that just so we could understand really how it works as a precursor in the body, what does it really go through to turn into the NAD that we need to go through the energy metabolism?
22:28
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: So if you think about the cellular energy metabolism as a cycle, NMN and niacinamide and NAD plus are all components of this cycle.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: So actually, if you only supplemented with one, actually, this is why we use both niacinamide and NMN, by the way, because we were really interested in providing a well-rounded set of fuel for the cell.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: And so it's not going to be clear in any given body, everybody is different.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: It's not necessarily going to be the niacinamide for one person's system or the NMN for another.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: We wanted to take a more holistic approach and offer more support for the body to produce NAD.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: And this actually is a good segue.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to mention that the precursor complex, what we're calling the NAD precursor complex, is not just NMN and niacinamide.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: It also, in the supplement, it's choline, which is a methyl donor, and I'll get into why that is important.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: And we include CD38 inhibitors.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: In the case of the supplement, we're using turmeric, which is shown to inhibit CD38.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: And then in the topicals, we use apigenin, another naturally derived compound that inhibits CD38.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: So why all of this mix of compounds and not just NMN or not just niacinamide?
23:47
SPEAKER_00: It's because this is a delicate cycle, and there are a number of different steps in the cycle.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: And you referred earlier to the fact that both niacinamide and NMN are earlier in the cycle than NAD, but that cycle flips back around.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: So a byproduct of the use of NAD plus is actually niacinamide again.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: And so that either goes back into the fueling cycle and feeds another round of cellular metabolism, or it needs to be excreted if you're getting too much of it through a process called methylation.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: So the reason we include choline in our formulation is because the body only has a certain amount of methyl groups available to it.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: So if you're spiking up the metabolic function of your cells, you actually are going to create this byproduct.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: More niacinamide will actually be created through this NAD plus loop, but the niacinamide then needs to be methylated if it's going to be excreted.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: And so you need that option.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: You need to have that methyl donor.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: The analogy that I would make is if you're adding fuel to a fire, and let's say the fire burning is actually this process of metabolizing NAD plus, but you need the fuel for the fire.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: So you're adding two different types of wood, right?
24:55
SPEAKER_00: Niacinamide and NMN.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: And different fireplaces are going to burn those at different rates.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: So we include both of them.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: But then eventually you're going to get ash buildup.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: And you're shoveling that ash, you do need to make sure that you're taking care of kind of waste management and the byproducts.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: And so that's why we use the methyl donor.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: And then just to tie back the CD38 inhibitors, why we use those, is that in case the niacinamide and NMN in one particular body type or another is not enough to effectively boost that level of NAD, the CD38 inhibitors, what they do is they actually reduce the degradation of NAD plus, which is another way of saying they boost it, right?
25:35
SPEAKER_00: Because they inhibit a process that would actually break it down.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: So we have multiple shots on goal in the effort to make sure that across all the kinds of different people using this product, that one of these components is going to work for them to boost that NAD plus level in their blood.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: Makes sense.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: That makes a lot of sense.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because NAD is that's the goal to get you energy.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, makes sense.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: The C D38 you've mentioned is its normal role is to degrade NAD.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: And so we're stopping it from doing that.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: That's why you're using the inhibitors.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's really, really cool stuff.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: I think that's very interesting because in molecular biology, I think that's the fundamental, is like you want to figure out how many different avenues through which you can accomplish the same goal of whatever you're doing, whether it's overexpression of something or keeping something around, especially like in Nero, we we study that a lot in medicine.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: And it's important to understand that I think as consumers as well.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: We talk a lot about things like bioavailability of things and you know how long things stay in your circulation and all of this, but then we never really discuss like, well, what allows for things to stay around for a long time because molecules will all degrade, as we know.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: But that's really, really cool that you guys have thought about that.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: And on that note, I actually want to talk a little bit more about the methylation um because that's very interesting.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: You know, right now we're in a interesting place with I think skincare and longevity science because a lot of people are getting turning longevity into a buzzword, kind of, you know, and some of the things that are coming up is like methylation and methylation and epigenetic.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: And so if you were to speak on that a little bit, what could you tell anyone listening out there that's considering, you know, what methylation is doing here?
27:10
SPEAKER_01: Is it gonna cause any kind of downstream effects other than what's desired or just Oh, that's a great question.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: So well, I kind of think about it this way: the body, if it has no methyl groups to use, it simply won't have the options to use them.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: You mentioned in epigenetic phenomena that most typical types of epigenetic modification that you would see would be methylation.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: So you'd be adding a methyl group to the DNA strand and thereby having that bit of DNA not translated anymore into protein, right?
27:40
SPEAKER_00: So that's a way of kind of shutting down a gene is by methylating it.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: But the body decides to do that based on inputs.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: So we have the natural wisdom of our own bodies.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: Your body typically knows if you're tired, you need to go to sleep.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: Your body knows if you have a wound, it needs to repair itself.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: Most of these things are kind of on quote unquote autopilot, where the body's gonna take whatever resources it has and use them to achieve the functions it needs to achieve.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: But if you're lacking something, like people out on the high seas were out in the water and they didn't have access to vitamin C, the body just simply didn't have it.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: And so they developed scurvy.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: They developed all of these problems where the body just simply didn't have the inputs to do what it needed to do.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: And so by adding the methyl groups, there hasn't been choline, by the way, an essential nutrient in the body.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: And it's used, as you know, from acetylcholine, it's an important, it's important for cellular function, it's important for a million things.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: And it's often actually underdosed in multivitamins.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: So the reason we chose choline and in the specific dose that we chose it, it's compatible with if you're taking a multivitamin that has choline in it, you're not going to get too much of it.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: There's absolutely no toxicity associated with taking the amount that we're offering.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: But what we are doing is you're giving the body the optionality to use it if it needs it, the same way that that vitamin C, if your body needs it, you really need it.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: Right.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: Then again, if you take way too much vitamin C, you get diarrhea.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: And so it's not a good thing.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: It's important to pay attention to.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: Dosing matters, amounts really matter, and we were obsessed with that when we formulated our product.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: I remember just a few years ago, nobody was even talking about dosing.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: So you're actually mentioning it very easily.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: It makes me really happy to see that, you know.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: I remember when people were like shying away from that word, like dosing.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
29:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm creating a moisturizer, damn it.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, no, that's it's very cool, though.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: It's very cool.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: And I really, really applaud you guys for doing this the way you have because it's just great science, really, really great science, and the approach is just so wonderful.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: And you know, with that, I actually want to ask you this as well because I know a lot of us out here know that with the rise of retinol products, with the rise of a lot of things that are causing cell turnover, we're all aware that there are free radicals released all the time.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: And that's where I think antioxidants really play a big role.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: So when you guys were crafting the formulas, what were some of the antioxidants that you chose and why did you choose them?
29:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this was one of my favorite topics because I brought so many years of research behind this because so many of the natural bioactive compounds that we isolated as important in dietary use were antioxidants.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, they're anti-inflammatory, they're anti-cancer.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: They just support so many aspects of healthy cellular function that it was really important that we chose the right antioxidants.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: And so the way we thought about it was we wanted to choose antioxidants that were multitaskers.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: So we didn't want them just to be scavenging free radicals.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: We didn't want them just to be highly bioavailable by the body, which again, a lot of people don't think about.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: A lot of formulators don't think about this, but we don't want something that's concentration spikes after five minutes and then it's immediately metabolized.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: We want stuff that's going to stay and that has actual data in human trials to achieve the benefits that you're looking for.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: And on top of that, because there's just a limit amount of ingredients that you can fit into two pumps of a lotion or into two pills that you're swallowing, we had to be really space efficient about what we included in our formulations.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: So we chose antioxidants ultimately that could perform a double task.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: One that they can scavenge free radicals in the body, which has, you know, these implications for DNA repair processes and for neuroprotection and for cancer prevention and for inflammation reduction and all these things that you can't actually talk about in the labels of your products.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: We wanted them to go even further and have some kind of secondary role.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: And so we chose, for example, vitamin C.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: That's an easy one, right?
31:27
SPEAKER_00: Both in the topical and the supplement, because not only are you, not only is it a very potent antioxidant, it also supports collagen production and cellular autophagy, which is one of the ways the body's natural ways of cleaning itself and eating up old dead cell material.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: We chose physetin because not only is it a potent antioxidant, it's derived from strawberries, by the way, it's in our eating supplement, it is a synolytic.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: So it clears away senescent cells, which is one of the hallmarks of skin aging and aging in general, is these slowly dying cells that are releasing into the cells around them these harmful compounds that basically negatively impact the cells around them.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: And so we call them like zombie cells now.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's the word we get.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, zombie cells, yeah.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: Zombie cells, exactly.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: We chose holy basal because not only is it a potent antioxidant, it is an adaptogen and supports the body's response to stress.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: We included that in the evening supplement again, so that you know you're you're winding down for the night, you're wanting to reduce your stress, and this is actually a proven compound that has adaptogenic effects and helps the body modulate stress.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: We chose tiger grass, not only is it antioxidant, it does photoaging support, collagen support.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: Acid xanthin has the UV data and incredible results, dietary results on skin in particular, on fine lines.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: There's incredible research on that.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: I encourage you to go and look it up yourself.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of unbelievable at the doses, the impact you get with acid xanthin.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: Turmeric, I mean, this is like the OG antioxidant, anti-inflammatory compound.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: But frankly, it's not super bioavailable.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: So, what do we do?
32:57
SPEAKER_00: We use half a gram.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: Like we really put a lot in there so that you're gonna get the benefit because people that are putting only these little piddling amounts of turmeric in there, you're not gonna get the benefits that you need to get.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: You really have to take a lot.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: And this is where I was talking about where sometimes it would become difficult to actually consume these things in pure food terms.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: And then one last thing I'd love to just tell you about hydroxytrosol.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: So this actually, we wouldn't even need this to be a multi-taxer because of how incredibly potent it is.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: Hydroxytyrosol is from olive fruit extract, but it just happens to be one of the most potent antioxidants in all known natural antioxidants.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: I think there's only one out there that might be higher in terms of the QRAC score.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: But it just happens to also protect LDL cholesterol and have metabolic benefits.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: So, really, it is a multi-taxer, and all of the ingredients that we chose are, and that's why we got so excited about using them.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: That's phenomenal.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: Wow, I love that.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: That really it makes your background shine a lot.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: Like that really shows you've done your research there because I didn't know about like half of those, honestly.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: I've never, I've never, yeah, I've never read the data around them, but that's amazing.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: Like that's really, really cool.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: And I I think that's a really great point that you brought up, Diana.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: And we never get to hear about that.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: And is the idea of you know, antioxidants uh serve many, many roles rather than just the mop-up of free radicals.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: So that's that's right.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: They have that, like you said, there's always multifactorial impacts on the body.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: Your body's a very complex system, and so you have these molecules, they do more than one thing.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and it's just magical.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: I was whenever I'm thinking about the human, I think like very early on in my studies, a professor who was very philosophical, as many professionals can be, and they were explaining to me that, you know, if if people just sat down and thought about how many ways the human body has to defend itself, you know, from even like one stressor, like you would find so many cures to so many things.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: And I still remember that now, even because it's true, like we have so many systems in place in the human body.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: So to be able to like work with so many beautiful botanicals and compounds and really bring out the best, which is what you guys are doing.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a huge task to take on, and I really applaud you for doing it so beautifully.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: It's it's wonderful.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so now I'm gonna rave.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I said I was gonna do it, I have to rave.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: I am obsessed.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not even just like, no joke.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: I know you guys have heard me on the podcast before.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: I love pretty much like all the brands we bring on, like I really believe in them.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, I don't, but this brand, you guys, are a more has completely changed the way I do my skincare routine.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: I'm not exaggerating.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: I literally like there are nights where all I can do is put on the PM cream and I wake up feeling completely rejuvenated as far as my skin and the way it's looking and the way it's feeling in terms of hydration and overall smoothness and all of the wonderful things we want in our skincare routine.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: I've done that many times.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: I've been using it consistently.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: It's basically a staple in my routine as the topical products for sure.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: I also love the supplements.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm never a big supplement person, but like I've definitely noticed like these are not supplements that will make you feel weird in any way, you know, because for me, I'm very sensitive.
36:01
SPEAKER_01: Even when I take aspirin, I'm my body sensitive.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: So I can tell you honestly, like the supplements have been so, so nice and really, really sitting well with me.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: But I've just loved the brand because I think for the first time a skincare brand has shown me that all of those things that a lot of my skeptical colleagues that are in dermatology, they always tell me, you know, skincare doesn't do anything really.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: You just need something to keep the hydration in.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: This is the first time where I'm seeing a brand prove that there's a lot that can be done.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
36:30
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: Like your skin can be rejuvenated from the inside out, it can look healthier and younger and more whatever the word is that resonates with you.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, when you think about healthy skin, it really can happen.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I've noticed smaller pore sizes, smoother skin.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: It's like my acne breakouts, you know, adult acne has always been a struggle of mine.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: And I haven't experienced it since I've been using the bread.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: I literally haven't been dealing with it.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's crazy.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: We do have ingredients to tackle that one issue, but we can't we can't technically talk about it.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, you're doing it right because honestly, adult acne.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've always had acne when I was a teenager, but you know, in the adult years, we know how finicky it can be.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes like a breakout will last forever.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: And I've had that experience, and I really, really have seen my my skin transform in a way that I've never seen before with any topical products I've used.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: So I'm just blown away, Diana, honestly.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: Like the science speaks for itself here.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: And for everyone listening, if you are in the market for a rate brand, like I'm talking baseline, like your go-to, this is it.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: Like, this is it, like for real.
37:35
SPEAKER_01: And so I really encourage you guys to check it out because it's really packed full of all of the right stuff.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: And that's one thing that I'm very passionate about.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: Diana, I'm sure you can relate as a scientist.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: I think scientists in general, all of us, we want to see the science.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: That's what we care about.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: And that's where when I use any brand, my first thought is like, well, what is in here?
37:55
SPEAKER_01: Even just not just the ingredients, not just the inky list, but really what Diana dove into in this podcast, which is how things are really working together to make results occur, you know?
38:05
SPEAKER_01: And that's literally how the human body works.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: So I really encourage everybody that's tuning in that love the science of skin, think about that the next time you're out there shopping and you're looking for a new product.
38:16
SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, yeah, it has XYZ ingredients, but do those ingredients work together?
38:20
SPEAKER_01: Do they do something?
38:21
SPEAKER_01: Do they produce an effect when you combine them?
38:23
SPEAKER_01: Those kind of questions should be at the forefront, honestly.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, I can't tell you how many, and you know, because I looked, this was another thing I was curious about.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: I said, what else is out there?
38:33
SPEAKER_00: Are there any other skin supplements out there?
38:35
SPEAKER_00: And what are the very highest end brands, quote unquote science-backed brands, doing with their tropicals?
38:40
SPEAKER_00: And so many of them are doing this disingenuous approach where they have one ingredient.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, are you kidding?
38:47
SPEAKER_00: One ingredient when there are these libraries of compounds on there.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: How are you not trying to find an optimal combination approach that's actually going to work for a larger population of people?
38:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe you can find five people who are going to respond really well to your one ingredient, but what people need is a combinatorial approach.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: And that's definitely one of the goalposts that we definitely reached.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: No, I've I could not agree with you more.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: And also the word that comes to my mind is just synergy of molecules.
39:17
SPEAKER_01: That's just how things work.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: That's all physics, chemistry, that's how it works.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, things work in conjunction with each other.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, like we were talking about methyl donors and stuff earlier.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: Like that is how everything works.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: And I just don't understand the single, if you have a single thing, like a single botanical or whatever it is, that to me just spells out toxicity.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe I'm crazy.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: Like, if you take too much of something, it's not going to be good.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: So that's probably that's you know too much of anything could be a bad thing.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: Or really, I'm less concerned about that with a lot of these kind of mono ingredient products.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm just concerned about is it going to have any efficacy at all?
39:53
SPEAKER_00: Do you even have enough of it in there?
39:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, especially a lot of these form factors where it's like it's a very thick gel cap or it's even worse, like gummy.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm sorry, people, but that is all gelatin and sugar.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: You are not getting a lot of active ingredient if you are using these kinds of form factors and it looks cool and it looks pretty, might be a little easier to take.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna have to swallow 12 of these pills to get the amount that you actually need.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: No, and I think that's also a big topic when it comes to like big pharma as well.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
40:22
SPEAKER_01: Like people are dealing, like I know physicians deal with this all the time, where there are certain supplements or whatever that you want to recommend to patients, but you just can't.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: Ethically, you can't because you know they don't do anything.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's the truth, you know.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, I'll tell you, vitamin D is one of the hardest things to get up in your body, to like get it levels back up.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: You know why?
40:42
SPEAKER_01: Because all the supplements out here are terrible, they're terrible.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: And the ones, the ones we can give you as physicians, they work half the time and half the time they don't, you know what I mean?
40:52
SPEAKER_01: Because that's how hard it is.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: And it's just like I feel like consumers get so wrapped up in so many things, and we just end up taking a plethora of stuff that's not doing anything, and it's just again the marketing.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: It's the marketing, it just kills me every time, but that's what it is.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: So, but no, I'm just such a fan, honestly, Diana.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: I think what you guys have done is remarkable, and I cannot wait.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: I know you guys recently came out with a sunscreen, right?
41:15
SPEAKER_01: There was a yeah, yeah.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: How was that launch?
41:18
SPEAKER_01: I want you to tell us a little bit about that because that's amazing.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I mean, this I have to give it up to my colleagues, Serena Elviraya, because she, you know, this woman has 2,000 patients, patients with every different type of skin sensitivity out there.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: And she herself has sensitive skin and is just concerned about micronized zinc and the fact that most of it just ends up in your liver, which I didn't know until I talked to her about this because I'm not a again, I'm not the skincare guru.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm more natural compounds in the body.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: She was like, Yeah, you know, micronized zinc is great in theory and it absorbs really well, but then it actually all goes straight to your liver.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that's terrifying.
41:55
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Yeah, she's like, We're gonna do yeah.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: So she's looking we're gonna develop the right kind of a formulation that I feel safe taking that I'm gonna give to my sons to take.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna, yes, we're gonna use zinc because it is effective, but we're gonna formulate it in a way that it isn't, you know, ultimately that it's not hand-wringing that you're using it every single day.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: And so she stands behind this formulation.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you've had a chance to try it, but it is I have.
42:19
SPEAKER_01: It's phenomenal.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: It's phenomenal.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love it.
42:22
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: I love that she thought about that.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: I love that you guys are my people.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: Like this is my drive.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I found my drive in skincare.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, this is so cool.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: And I completely love that she was able to, you know, shout that out about zinc because everyone is like, oh no, Ecta, don't worry about it.
42:40
SPEAKER_01: It's not enough to seep into your bloodstream.
42:42
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh my god, like you guys, you don't get it, you know.
42:46
SPEAKER_01: So that's so cool.
42:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: If you're really using sunscreen in the way you're supposed to, you are slathering it on, you know, you're putting a generous amount on every single day.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: And you know, they talk about the skin barrier being a challenge to absorb, but like the the proof is in the pudding or the proof of the pudding is in the eating, right?
43:04
SPEAKER_00: Because you do see these compounds ending up in the liver.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: You are absorbing it systemically.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: It's not, you know, it's not a one-to-one, but you're it's getting into your body for sure.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: And the amount of blood supply that's supplying your skin.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, come on, folks, let's just, you know what I mean?
43:19
SPEAKER_01: Let's do the math, the surface area, just you know, in in general.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: Like it's just, of course, it's going into your bloodstream.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: Of course it's going in, and everything goes to your liver for everyone listening.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: Everything goes through your liver when it's being metabolized, when it's breaking broken down and waste, especially with chemicals and stuff.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, just it's important to be mindful.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: Use something that is actually pe I'm glad you guys came out with a sunscreen because I always say good skincare brand is always gonna have a sunscreen, like a sun protection option.
43:46
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just so glad you guys have that because it's so needed.
43:49
SPEAKER_01: And the sunscreen space, that's a whole different conversation.
43:51
SPEAKER_01: I could talk about that for like literally days, but because I have my own like, you know what I mean?
43:56
SPEAKER_01: You already know, like I have my own qualms and stuff with that stuff, but I I love your sunscreen.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: I love your products.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: And I just couldn't be more thrilled that you came onto the show and explained all the wonderful, beautiful science that's gone behind it.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: Just to close off.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: There's so much more.
44:11
SPEAKER_00: If I wish we had another hour, I couldn't.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: I know.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm gonna be bugging you to come back.
44:16
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, we gotta do a part two because there's there's a lot.
44:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: No, but I want to close off a here though with some remarks and some advice for people who may want to go into medicine or combine medicine with business as a career option.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: Any words of wisdom that you can offer?
44:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's funny, I didn't mention this, but I also run an internship program that's very specifically at the intersection of STEM fields and business.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: So I help undergraduates think about how to craft a career that is meaningful and impactful and, you know, kind of that at the intersection of their talents and being efficacious in the world.
44:51
SPEAKER_00: And I have a lot to say about this topic.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, mainly what I would say is that, you know, one thing that I will say actually is that I have not interviewed your job since I was in graduate school.
45:04
SPEAKER_00: In fact, the only interview I've ever done was for this little Pixar outfit that was doing this molecular animations.
45:11
SPEAKER_00: And what I found is just it's all about making human connections.
45:16
SPEAKER_00: If you're curious about this space, it is great to, you know, to start with graduate studies, but keep your mind open.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: It just so happens there's an inverse correlation with how many years you complete a graduate school and how ultimately far your career takes you.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: Um I believe that.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: I really think getting a strong technical background is really important.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad that I built that up.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: But I'm also glad that I branched out and met people and built relationships.
45:46
SPEAKER_00: There's so many exciting career spaces within the, you know, the intersection of medicine and business.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: So many people I work with are former MDs, former PhDs who are now CEOs and they're making that difficult transition.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: That's why I do this kind of 12-week crash course for undergrads who are headed to grad school.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: I show them how to build a pitch deck and how to, you know, develop their network and how to connect with mentors that are outside of their specific domain.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: Because when you're in college, you're you're surrounded by people who have pursued the academic track and have really not deviated from it.
46:19
SPEAKER_00: And so you don't have those mentors and those exemplars in your life of people that have built other things.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: But I think one of the best places you can go to immerse yourself in that is in the particular domain you're interested in.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: If you're interested, for example, in oncology, go to ASCO.
46:34
SPEAKER_00: Go and look at all of the amazing startups and companies that are building and innovating in the oncology space.
46:39
SPEAKER_00: If you're interested in wound healing, go to the American College of Wound Healing annual meeting.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: If you're interested in neuroscience, go to SFN, go to Society Society for Neuroscience, go to Brain Mind, which is that intersection, again, of startups and business and early stage neuroscience projects.
46:56
SPEAKER_00: I think it's meeting people and seeing what they're doing and building in their careers is going to open up your worlds and allow you to narrow down what it is that you're interested in and where your talents lie.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: And if you're an undergraduate, come and apply for my internship and I'll spend 12 weeks expounding on.
47:11
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
47:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, are you kidding?
47:13
SPEAKER_01: That's an amazing opportunity.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if there's any undergrads listening out there that are in STEM, like you guys need to avail that for real.
47:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, I remember when I was going through getting into medical school, all that jazz.
47:24
SPEAKER_01: That's why I said I believe what you said because I literally have spent so long in my training.
47:28
SPEAKER_01: And then I look back and I'm like, why did I do all that?
47:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, I'm glad I did.
47:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad I don't.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: That's a good thing.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: It's you need that technical.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: But you know what I mean though.
47:38
SPEAKER_01: It's like it does become after a while, you're just like, hmm.
47:42
SPEAKER_00: At some point, maybe diminishing returns.
47:45
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, graduate school, it is kind of an indentured servitude kind of thing.
47:49
SPEAKER_00: They do use you for cheap labor in the lab.
47:51
SPEAKER_00: Let's be honest.
47:52
SPEAKER_00: Like it is a business.
47:53
SPEAKER_00: They profit off of you.
47:55
SPEAKER_00: The universities make money off of your hard labor.
47:58
SPEAKER_00: You're working 12 hours a day in the lab and you're getting paid peanuts.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: And that's how it works.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: You get the letters after your name afterwards.
48:03
SPEAKER_00: And in many cases, it's worth it.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: In some, if you find something that calls to you, go for it.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
48:11
SPEAKER_01: And it might not be your path.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: That's okay to consider that.
48:14
SPEAKER_01: I love what you said.
48:15
SPEAKER_01: I absolutely stand behind it because yeah, sometimes I've had colleagues, I know exactly what you're talking about, like people that they ended up in medicine.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they went the conventional route, but they didn't end up going into like business or something, you know, or opening up a bunch of urgent cares or whatever they did, but it wasn't in the hospital.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
48:31
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like performing that wasn't their thing.
48:33
SPEAKER_01: So they didn't need some of the training that we all went through because they never utilized that training.
48:38
SPEAKER_01: And so it is important, I think, now more than ever, for the youth to rethink, you know, what do I what do you want to do?
48:44
SPEAKER_01: And what's the most, you know, efficient way to get there rather than just, you know, conventional.
48:50
SPEAKER_01: I think that's very important.
48:51
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, a lot you can pick up just by doing so much of my research was learned by doing, you know, I was just with these teams and we needed to build these dietary recommendations for the White House, you know, and then you learn, you learn during that process how to do wide-ranging research and and how to analyze across different study types and how to rank them by actually how impactful they are, all of those things, you won't necessarily get that kind of experience in in the graduate school setting.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: You will learn it in a professional setting.
49:22
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
49:23
SPEAKER_01: I again, I'm you know I'm gonna bug you to come back, right?
49:27
SPEAKER_01: I hope you understand you understand.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh, because honestly, we we need to do a part two on this.
49:32
SPEAKER_01: This has been so, so amazing, and what an honor to host you, Diana.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm just such a fan of everything that you've created that you're, you know, you and your co-founders and the whole science board has put together here.
49:43
SPEAKER_01: RMOR is just beyond phenomenal.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: Like, genuinely.
49:47
SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, thank you.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you're using the product and you're seeing the benefits and enjoying it.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, I really am, and I encourage everyone listening.
49:56
SPEAKER_01: Make sure you guys check the brand out.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be blasting it everywhere.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: And if you don't, then I will be emailing you.
50:02
SPEAKER_01: But like, you know, no, really, like I really recommend it, guys.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: So definitely check them out.
50:07
SPEAKER_01: And if you have any questions or comments or any questions um for Diana's team about the science, please feel free to email us.
50:13
SPEAKER_01: We'll definitely pass along your questions.
50:14
SPEAKER_01: But I hope you enjoy the interview and I will be back next time.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Ecta.
50:18
SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
50:21
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50:25
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50:28
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50:34
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50:43
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50:50
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50:53
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51:00
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51:04
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51:08
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51:14
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51:20
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51:25
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.