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Chinese History Series—Founder of the Han Dynasty: From Local Bully to Rebel Leader | Silk and Steel · UK Column Radio

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Silk and Steeled Podcasts
0:07
Speaker 1: Chinese History series, where we talk about Chinese history from
0:10
Speaker 1: the deepest antiquity to what we optimistically hope will be
0:15
Speaker 1: the present day.
0:16
Speaker 2: Thereabout.
0:17
Speaker 1: In the present day, we lived through the momentous geopolitical times,
0:22
Speaker 1: and we are also talking about momentous geopolitical times once
0:25
Speaker 1: again in the ancient Chinese history, as the Chain Empire,
0:31
Speaker 1: which unified all of China and only like fifteen or
0:34
Speaker 1: so years ago, is now entirely shaky, and even as
0:39
Speaker 1: the initial peasant uprising of tension and Wukwan was decapitated.
0:45
Speaker 1: If the fire of rebellion has spread to the you
0:50
Speaker 1: can say the disempowered and resentful aristocracy of the former
0:55
Speaker 1: six states. But once again I am the perpetual guest, JJ,
0:58
Speaker 1: and welcoming as back as Carl from Bali. Hey, JJ,
1:02
Speaker 1: thank you for your lovely intro. We're gonna dive right
1:06
Speaker 1: back into the collapse of the Qing dynasty and the
1:10
Speaker 1: subsequent rise of the Han dynasty. You know, last time,
1:14
Speaker 1: what we cover is the Empire strikes back. The Chin
1:18
Speaker 1: Imperial Army UH swept east and they managed to destroy
1:25
Speaker 1: the the the first rebel leader Tensen Uh. You know
1:31
Speaker 1: ten Sen has been he staged the rebellion for six months,
1:35
Speaker 1: he had been king.
1:36
Speaker 3: He's uh been revered as a rebel leader, even though
1:41
Speaker 3: he died. You know the slogan that he yelled at
1:45
Speaker 3: the beginning, which is one Ho jung Shan Nino, who
1:49
Speaker 3: you know the kings and lords and minister and general
1:53
Speaker 3: are they born? Uh? And of course the answer is no.
1:58
Speaker 3: This become a famous rally cry throughout Chinese history. And
2:02
Speaker 3: combined that with the concept of mandate of Heaven that
2:07
Speaker 3: was developed in the Zo dynasty, which he explained the
2:10
Speaker 3: transfer of power from sang Sung dynasty to Zou dynasty.
2:15
Speaker 3: So in China, unlike Japan, you know Japan, like they
2:20
Speaker 3: pride themselves on their own their continuous, unbroken imperial line
2:26
Speaker 3: that stretched two thousand years. In China, the idea is
2:30
Speaker 3: whoever is capable, you can be the imper which is
2:34
Speaker 3: ultimate neutocracy, right, and like if you're capable and bitious enough,
2:39
Speaker 3: you can't be the emperor. I remember one of the
2:42
Speaker 3: famous line from the Journey to the West when the
2:45
Speaker 3: Monkey King was breaking havoc in the heavenly court, and
2:49
Speaker 3: he said, uh, hungdi Lundi. Yeah, he said, like it's
2:55
Speaker 3: like the throng is the imperial throng is the musical chair,
2:59
Speaker 3: and now it is miter. And that has been a
3:03
Speaker 3: theme throughout Chinese history in all this dynastic cycles, right,
3:07
Speaker 3: any anyone who is capable can seize the mandate of
3:11
Speaker 3: heaven for himself.
3:14
Speaker 1: In a way, we actually talked about how this like dive,
3:19
Speaker 1: what is an eventual divergence with Japan comes about. And
3:24
Speaker 1: in an early episode when the Joe King during the
3:27
Speaker 1: Warring States period, when he is completely he has lost
3:31
Speaker 1: all his most of his power, decides to take part
3:35
Speaker 1: in the coalition, in our coalition against the Chin State
3:39
Speaker 1: and gets clovered and gets uh basically administratively eliminated as
3:46
Speaker 1: a result. And at that before that, like nobody had
3:49
Speaker 1: decided to just unseat that the heavenly Joe King, right,
3:54
Speaker 1: it was it was seen as a kind of a
3:56
Speaker 1: full part.
3:56
Speaker 2: You shouldn't do it.
3:57
Speaker 1: There was still some foreign he what Romans would call
4:01
Speaker 1: the you know authoritas moral authority there. But he decided
4:05
Speaker 1: off his own accord to participate in the politics and lose.
4:09
Speaker 1: It would be like if you know, King Charles decide
4:13
Speaker 1: like British monarchy is you know, at a low ebb,
4:17
Speaker 1: one could say of its legitimacy these days, but it's
4:21
Speaker 1: still there. No one is taking the initiative to like
4:24
Speaker 1: get rid of them. But if he were to, if
4:26
Speaker 1: King Charles were to decide to implicate himself more directly
4:29
Speaker 1: in politics and then lose, you know, it could be
4:31
Speaker 1: the end. Right, It's kind of what the Joe King did.
4:35
Speaker 1: And I guess I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm not sure
4:39
Speaker 1: why the because there were Japanese, early Japanese emperors who
4:42
Speaker 1: tried to fight for power as well against the shoguns,
4:46
Speaker 1: and they like lost. But yeah, for some reason in
4:51
Speaker 1: Japan this even very later on, like these aristocratic leaders
4:57
Speaker 1: who fight for the position of shogunate. You have to
5:00
Speaker 1: be an aristocrat to be shogun still, and if you're
5:03
Speaker 1: a peasant warlord like the Hideyoshi, you cannot be shogun.
5:07
Speaker 1: You're like something else, got kwampaku or whatever, like prime
5:10
Speaker 1: minister or something. But in China, it seems perhaps because
5:14
Speaker 1: of the combination of Choe dynasty ideology that was of
5:18
Speaker 1: this mandate, of the fact that you already changed dynasties
5:22
Speaker 1: once from Shun to Choe therefore the like ruling line
5:26
Speaker 1: is not that holy, right, it's not that inviolate because
5:31
Speaker 1: so yeah, anyway.
5:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the Qing dynasty, they seize power through violence,
5:37
Speaker 3: you know, through concours as well. So you know who
5:40
Speaker 3: have like like chairman mouth says, the political power group
5:44
Speaker 3: from the pair of a gang, whoever sees has a
5:48
Speaker 3: military power, who can you know, can seize the political power.
5:51
Speaker 3: And but right now, even though tensence uh rebellion is crushed,
5:57
Speaker 3: but the fire that he lit, the fire rebellion he
6:01
Speaker 3: let all throughout the rum continue to burn. And we
6:07
Speaker 3: this episode, I want to take time to to talk
6:10
Speaker 3: about the story of the founder future founder of Han dynasty,
6:15
Speaker 3: the Obang. You know, the last time we talked about him,
6:18
Speaker 3: he was a bandited leader in the Mondong mountains. But
6:22
Speaker 3: I wanted to, uh you know, talk about him from
6:25
Speaker 3: beginning from his family background. So he was born into
6:30
Speaker 3: a a farmer's family. His parents are both farmers. Uh
6:35
Speaker 3: so unlike Shang Yu and Shang Nyang, you know shang Yuanyan,
6:39
Speaker 3: they Shang Yang is a son of the famous to
6:43
Speaker 3: general Chang Yen. They are like from the family of
6:46
Speaker 3: senior aristocracy of two Uh, Thebans come from a more
6:52
Speaker 3: humble background. His parents are are are farmers, but they're
6:55
Speaker 3: not ordinary farmers. I want, I want to say that
6:59
Speaker 3: because it wasn't that long ago the Obams family. It
7:04
Speaker 3: wasn't that long ago when the Obams family got booted
7:07
Speaker 3: from aristocracy. It was in fact his grandfather's time that
7:11
Speaker 3: they lost their aristocracy ranking, their land and title. So
7:16
Speaker 3: the open and they come from a like a quite
7:20
Speaker 3: precedstigious line. They're from the Cadet branch of the Fine
7:25
Speaker 3: family in the Jean State, the former hedgemong of the
7:29
Speaker 3: Spring Autumn period. And if people recall, you know, uh,
7:35
Speaker 3: in the in the Jean state, there are six ministers,
7:38
Speaker 3: you know hold by six. The position was held by
7:42
Speaker 3: six powerful family. One of the powerful family a Fine family,
7:46
Speaker 3: which was an instigator, a leader of the Jean Civil
7:50
Speaker 3: War that broke up the Jean state. And there was
7:53
Speaker 3: a famous episode when the head of the Fine family
7:56
Speaker 3: Fine Trends, when it was his term to assume the
8:01
Speaker 3: position of the commander in chief of Jean army, he
8:05
Speaker 3: traveled to the Loose state and he had a conversation
8:09
Speaker 3: with the minister Susan Bao, and this is when Fine
8:12
Speaker 3: Trance was boasting about his own lineage, he said, well,
8:15
Speaker 3: the ancient has this term called surbusho, which in Chinese
8:21
Speaker 3: this literally means dead but not rotten, but translating into
8:25
Speaker 3: English is more like immortal legacy. Uh, you know, you're
8:30
Speaker 3: you're dead but not perished or something like that. And
8:35
Speaker 3: and then find trans goes down. He said, I think
8:38
Speaker 3: you know that could that description fit my family because
8:42
Speaker 3: he said, my ancestor descends from the ancient sage king Yao.
8:48
Speaker 3: You know, as we talk about the the Yaoso and
8:52
Speaker 3: the ancient sage kings in the mythical past, they're they're
8:57
Speaker 3: like the last three imperor or the you know, there
9:01
Speaker 3: was the Chinese when we talk about Chinese history, the
9:04
Speaker 3: mythology began with this three sovereign and five imperors and
9:08
Speaker 3: five impert began with a yellow imper, you know, skip
9:12
Speaker 3: couple two impers that people don't remember. And then he
9:15
Speaker 3: ends with the three famous sage king or sage imperors.
9:20
Speaker 3: He also enjoy. So so find trends and say, my
9:24
Speaker 3: family descent from the ancient sage king Yao. And then
9:29
Speaker 3: in the in the Sha dynasty, the first dynasty, my
9:32
Speaker 3: my ancestor was a tamer of dragon. Well, the the
9:37
Speaker 3: term is you Loans translate literally it means the tamer
9:42
Speaker 3: of the dragon or writer of the dragon. Now whether
9:45
Speaker 3: it means there is a literally tantainer or dragon or
9:49
Speaker 3: a title or noble title, that's up to debate. But anyway,
9:53
Speaker 3: so the idea is in the Shad dynasty they're still noble,
9:56
Speaker 3: and in the Sound dynasty were still aristocracy. And in
10:00
Speaker 3: the Zo dynasty, uh, you know, we we retain our
10:04
Speaker 3: aerostostocratic standing. And now in the gen in the because
10:10
Speaker 3: they what what he said might actually be true because
10:16
Speaker 3: they even though the Yao traditionally was considered mythology King Yao.
10:22
Speaker 3: But now we talked about earlier, the recent archaeological finding
10:27
Speaker 3: has dug out a four thousand, three hundred year old
10:31
Speaker 3: ancient city in Taos Sanshi that that area was traditional
10:38
Speaker 3: by traditional account was the area where sage King Yao
10:42
Speaker 3: founded his kingdom. And this is one of the largest
10:45
Speaker 3: city in East Asia at the time, and a lot
10:49
Speaker 3: of the archaeological finding things to correspond to the description
10:53
Speaker 3: of the King Yao and and that area the King
10:58
Speaker 3: Yao's kingdom. Later, uh, it's became the state of Tong
11:03
Speaker 3: and during the song Those dynasty transition, the Zo dynasty
11:08
Speaker 3: conquered the state of Tong and the Duke of Zo
11:11
Speaker 3: in fief, the younger brother of the Zoe king uh Suyui,
11:16
Speaker 3: to be the ruler of Tong and and the Tongue
11:19
Speaker 3: State later changed their name to Jin State. So so
11:23
Speaker 3: this it's quite plausible what fun Transity is claiming, like
11:26
Speaker 3: his family has been the native you know, kings and
11:30
Speaker 3: aristocracy in that area, and they had been co opted
11:33
Speaker 3: through different successful dynasties, uh up to the to the
11:38
Speaker 3: you know, the the Zoe dynasty and and then in
11:42
Speaker 3: the Jen during the Jin State fan Fire family, Uh,
11:47
Speaker 3: you know again they became one of the powerful sixth Minister.
11:50
Speaker 3: So fun trans said, you know, now when Jin State
11:53
Speaker 3: calls up the Lions meeting of all the lords of
11:56
Speaker 3: the Central Plains, it's my family. It's me that hosts
12:00
Speaker 3: the alliance meeting. So wouldn't you say that this immortal
12:06
Speaker 3: legacy described my family, you know. Susum Bab was not impressed,
12:10
Speaker 3: and he said, well, that just means your family has
12:13
Speaker 3: been aristocratic for a long time, you know, it just
12:16
Speaker 3: means your whole corposition for a thousand years. So what
12:19
Speaker 3: And susan Ba says, you know what real immortal legacy is.
12:26
Speaker 3: You know, if you established first you kind of serve
12:29
Speaker 3: as a moral example, serve as an example of virtue,
12:34
Speaker 3: then you accomplish great deeds, and then by your words.
12:38
Speaker 3: So virtue, deeds and words, those are the three immortal
12:44
Speaker 3: legacy you can pass on to posterity. Now this story
12:47
Speaker 3: is a traditional confusion kind of almost moral tale, you know,
12:51
Speaker 3: to illustrate the confusion principle what should constitute as immortal legacy.
12:58
Speaker 3: But at the same time find Tran got to you know,
13:01
Speaker 3: both about his lineage, not the old Bunks family. His
13:06
Speaker 3: family is a cadet branch of the Finn family. But
13:10
Speaker 3: they split pretty early on. They split before the Fan
13:15
Speaker 3: family become very powerful. So they split at the time
13:19
Speaker 3: when the Flinn family ancestors way, they're just among the
13:25
Speaker 3: At that time, jan State already established the sixth minister system,
13:30
Speaker 3: but there were thirteen noble family fighting for the sixth position,
13:34
Speaker 3: and at that time the most dominant one that the
13:38
Speaker 3: top dog was sau Doing doing was the ancestor of
13:42
Speaker 3: the later Sau state, and Sauduin had a fight with
13:47
Speaker 3: his number two. Uh, there's the number two guys, the
13:50
Speaker 3: second minister, and they each fight back a rival clement
13:55
Speaker 3: to the throne because at that time the jan Duke
13:59
Speaker 3: passed the way and his crown Prince is still an infant,
14:03
Speaker 3: so all the nobility decided we need an adult successor
14:07
Speaker 3: to the throne. But thu Doing and his number two
14:10
Speaker 3: reached back a different prince, and thau Doun wanted a
14:14
Speaker 3: prince that was serving as hostage at the Chin state,
14:17
Speaker 3: and whereas his second in command wanted the prince that
14:21
Speaker 3: was serving as hostage in the ten state. So what's
14:24
Speaker 3: out doing did his first he sent the way, the
14:28
Speaker 3: ancestor of the fan Fie family, into the Chin state
14:32
Speaker 3: to fetch his candidate to come back to the Jean state.
14:36
Speaker 3: And then he sent out assassins to kill his rivals,
14:43
Speaker 3: rivals claiming to this throne. And then his rival did
14:47
Speaker 3: something stupid is because he was when his candidate got assassinated,
14:52
Speaker 3: he got very angry, so he decided to assassinate a
14:56
Speaker 3: guy who was responsible before for promotion of Sauting to
15:02
Speaker 3: the number one spot. And Saudun sees that opportunity to
15:07
Speaker 3: to to wipe out his rival, and and and and
15:09
Speaker 3: Chase sending to exile. So now that's out doing one.
15:14
Speaker 3: He suddenly realized, you know, maybe it's not a bad
15:18
Speaker 3: idea to have an infant sitting on the throne who
15:21
Speaker 3: is easy to control. And well, the official story is
15:25
Speaker 3: a queen the whole the infant crown prince to cry
15:29
Speaker 3: at the door of Saudan, and sau Don had no choice.
15:32
Speaker 3: But I think, you know it's Aldom made the calculations like,
15:35
Speaker 3: oh yeah, okay, I don't need an excuse anymore. I
15:38
Speaker 3: can just serve as an unrivaled regent uh ruling in
15:44
Speaker 3: the name of the infant duke. So he renected on
15:47
Speaker 3: the deal, but without informing the Chin state. At that time,
15:50
Speaker 3: Chin State already sent the army accompany the Prince of
15:56
Speaker 3: Jean together of the way on the way to through
16:00
Speaker 3: assume the throne in the Jin capital. So sau Doing
16:03
Speaker 3: mobilized his Jin army, and he said, look back then,
16:07
Speaker 3: when we invited them, they were our guest, and now
16:11
Speaker 3: we take back our invitation. They're no longer our guests,
16:14
Speaker 3: so they're invader of our land. So he laid an
16:17
Speaker 3: ambush for the Qin army, and and and completely crushed
16:21
Speaker 3: them and now became a trader you know by through
16:28
Speaker 3: no fault of his own. So Silwey escape with the
16:32
Speaker 3: Jin prince back to the Qin state, where he stayed
16:35
Speaker 3: in exile for seven eight years. During that time, he
16:39
Speaker 3: got married to a woman from Qing. He started a
16:42
Speaker 3: new family. But later when Thau Doing consolidated his power,
16:47
Speaker 3: he felt he needed Suway back, so he sent an
16:52
Speaker 3: order to recall Suwey back to the Jin state to
16:55
Speaker 3: assume position of a minister, and Silwey then snuck back
17:00
Speaker 3: to the Jin state, but he left his family behind,
17:04
Speaker 3: uh you know he he he left his Chin side
17:06
Speaker 3: of the family behind, and Suhuei went down to become
17:09
Speaker 3: a very powerful jin Uh minister and started a new family,
17:15
Speaker 3: the Fan family, because his thief is at a place
17:18
Speaker 3: called fan Fan. At that time, the aristocracy, they take
17:22
Speaker 3: their their surname based on their fief right. So but
17:29
Speaker 3: but his son that was left behind in the state
17:31
Speaker 3: of Chin, they can no longer use Suhwei's surname because
17:35
Speaker 3: at that time, there are two types of surnames in Chinese,
17:40
Speaker 3: Shin and s Shin denotes blood ties. It's it's like
17:47
Speaker 3: the clan name suh is denotes your title, your your
17:52
Speaker 3: title and and so only nobility have commoner do not
17:56
Speaker 3: have right. So so when Suhwe escaped back to the
18:00
Speaker 3: Jin State, his family in the state of Chin, they
18:03
Speaker 3: they lost access to his title, the nobility title, so
18:08
Speaker 3: they can no longer use his his surname or fat fun.
18:13
Speaker 3: So they reverted back to their ancient clan clan name
18:16
Speaker 3: which is Neil right. So and this this new family
18:21
Speaker 3: remained in the Chin State for a couple of hundred
18:23
Speaker 3: years and then Uh transitioning into the Warring States period.
18:28
Speaker 3: The way the famous Way General stayed Away, one of
18:32
Speaker 3: the successors of the Jin States started initiative reform under
18:37
Speaker 3: the famous General Wuchi and Wuchi led his famous Way
18:40
Speaker 3: infantry to cross the Yellow River to carve out this
18:44
Speaker 3: land west of the Yellow River from the Chin State
18:47
Speaker 3: that happened to be the land that the new family
18:49
Speaker 3: was living in. So they they got incorporated into the
18:52
Speaker 3: Waste state. And later when the state Away moved their
18:56
Speaker 3: capital further east to Dadian, they followed the whole family
19:00
Speaker 3: that the old family followed to Dadian. And Uh they serve
19:04
Speaker 3: us some sort of they're like some low level. They're
19:08
Speaker 3: not you know, obviously they're not like senior nobility like
19:12
Speaker 3: the Fan family, but there's some kind of low level nobility.
19:16
Speaker 3: And and at one point uh stated Chin started to
19:22
Speaker 3: expand they be Chin Army besieged the way capital d
19:26
Speaker 3: so Way temporarily relocated Capital further yeast into a place
19:32
Speaker 3: called Fun. And that's when when they open the Oboun's
19:38
Speaker 3: ancestor moved their family to Fun. Later Fun became uh
19:45
Speaker 3: So the area of Fun. They used to be. That
19:48
Speaker 3: area used to be part of the Song State. Song
19:52
Speaker 3: State in the descendant of the Sun dynasty. And and
19:57
Speaker 3: the thing with the with the the Song State is
20:01
Speaker 3: that being a remnant of Sung dynasties, the Zo dynasty
20:07
Speaker 3: never trusted them, so they intentionally leave them on a
20:10
Speaker 3: piece of land that's completely flat. There's no defense whatsoever.
20:15
Speaker 3: But that land just happened to be very fertile because
20:18
Speaker 3: of the flat plain. So everybody want a piece of
20:20
Speaker 3: that land. So in the end of the Warring state period,
20:24
Speaker 3: soon state got carved up versus that it gobbled up
20:27
Speaker 3: by the Cheese State, and then the other none of
20:33
Speaker 3: none of the other powers like that. So five states
20:36
Speaker 3: gang up on the Chiese State. The Waste state was
20:39
Speaker 3: able to carve up a piece of the former Song
20:42
Speaker 3: land and that including the Fun the city of Fun.
20:47
Speaker 3: But then then that land become contested between the Waste
20:50
Speaker 3: State and the Two State. So this is when. So
20:56
Speaker 3: now we're in the time of the Obun's grandfather's time.
20:58
Speaker 3: Yukubang's grandfather was a governor of Fun for state Away,
21:03
Speaker 3: but when the True Army approached, he defected to the
21:07
Speaker 3: State of Tuo. He surrendered the City of Fun to
21:09
Speaker 3: the State of Tu and to reward him, State of
21:13
Speaker 3: Two infieved him as a Lord of Fun right and
21:17
Speaker 3: but that that didn't last long because the famous Lord
21:22
Speaker 3: Shinding of Way, the Prince Shinning of Way, led the
21:26
Speaker 3: Way Army to recapture the City of Fun and to
21:30
Speaker 3: punish Lubam's grandfather for that betrayal, he was stripped of
21:34
Speaker 3: his noble titles and his land and title was ripped away.
21:38
Speaker 3: So that's when the Lubam became said his family became commoners.
21:42
Speaker 3: So it was in pretty recent history, it wasn't that
21:46
Speaker 3: long ago. And and and this also explains why the
21:51
Speaker 3: Yubaan retained some of that social capital uh In you know,
21:57
Speaker 3: in In in the locality his uh his you know
22:02
Speaker 3: his he His name was actually not Neil Bang. His
22:05
Speaker 3: name is actually dio Gi. Bang is a name he
22:09
Speaker 3: adopted for himself later. And Bang made up of two
22:13
Speaker 3: Chinese characters, Fun and Yi. So his name is literally
22:19
Speaker 3: Neil from the city of Fun. You know, because he's
22:23
Speaker 3: trying to reclaim his ancestral Uh heritage and and so
22:29
Speaker 3: he even though his parents, his father was farmer, a commoner,
22:34
Speaker 3: they still retained some of that social capital from the
22:38
Speaker 3: time of his grandfather.
22:40
Speaker 2: They're local notables.
22:42
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so so this is one reason the richest
22:47
Speaker 3: man Uh in their village, in their tongue Uh the
22:51
Speaker 3: Lu family, the head of the Lu family is friends
22:55
Speaker 3: with Lubang's father. And when Dilbang was born, he was
23:01
Speaker 3: born on the same day as the son of the
23:03
Speaker 3: Lu family Luan Uh, So the head of the Lu family,
23:08
Speaker 3: he came to congratuate Leubang's dad with liquor, with wine,
23:14
Speaker 3: meat and gift. Right, I mean, so, I mean why
23:18
Speaker 3: would why would the richest man ingratiate himself with Lubang's dad,
23:22
Speaker 3: a common farmers. This is because he probably know they
23:25
Speaker 3: probably know each other back when Dubun's grandfather was the
23:29
Speaker 3: lord of the area, right and and so so so
23:32
Speaker 3: when you so, Dubang grew up with the guy who
23:36
Speaker 3: was born on the same day. He is the son
23:39
Speaker 3: of the richest family Luan, and both of them, you know,
23:43
Speaker 3: become inseparable. Luan became Dubang's psychic. Basically, uh. This is
23:49
Speaker 3: a common feature of the Luban's life. You know, he
23:51
Speaker 3: has in addition to the social capital, he also have
23:56
Speaker 3: a lot of personal charsmas. So he was able to
23:58
Speaker 3: attract a lot of the local uh local following. Now,
24:02
Speaker 3: the story is that when his mother was pregnant with him,
24:07
Speaker 3: you know, the mom fell asleep on a lake and
24:11
Speaker 3: then there was a sudden thunderstorm. So Nubang's father went
24:16
Speaker 3: to look for his wife and then what he saw was,
24:21
Speaker 3: you know, even though the storm was the ring was
24:25
Speaker 3: coming down hard, but there was a giant red dragon
24:29
Speaker 3: that was encircling about his wife, shielding her from the ring. Well,
24:34
Speaker 3: I think that story was probably made up much later
24:37
Speaker 3: during the Han dynasty propagandist to like justify some kind
24:42
Speaker 3: of a mandate of heaven, you know for Rubang. But
24:47
Speaker 3: the but when Yubug was so, but when Nupug was born,
24:51
Speaker 3: he has a special appearances in Chinese history. A lot
24:55
Speaker 3: of the when they describe the famous people, they always
24:58
Speaker 3: like look kind of out of ordinary. And Nubang himself
25:02
Speaker 3: he has a very high nose ridge and have very
25:06
Speaker 3: strong facial features, and he have a beautiful beard. And
25:13
Speaker 3: on his left thigh he has seventy two black moles,
25:19
Speaker 3: and so so that marks him as different from from
25:23
Speaker 3: the locals. And he grew up when he grew up.
25:28
Speaker 3: First of all, his family is not might be a farmer,
25:32
Speaker 3: but they're not poor. Because Niubang was described he did
25:37
Speaker 3: not like farm works, you know, he did not like
25:39
Speaker 3: to work in the field. So he when he grew up,
25:42
Speaker 3: he had some schooling. But then he went Bamarrang. Most
25:46
Speaker 3: famously he went to He went to the Way Capital
25:50
Speaker 3: Dadian to seek out his idol. His idol is Lord Shinning,
25:56
Speaker 3: the Way Prince that twice defeated the Chain army, once
26:00
Speaker 3: at the at the gate of Sao Capital, hunt done
26:05
Speaker 3: another time at the gate of the Way Capital, and
26:08
Speaker 3: twice inflicted a crushing defeat on the Chin army that
26:12
Speaker 3: probably delayed the Chin unification for twenty years. So so
26:17
Speaker 3: Lord Sinning has always been uh uh Ubun's childhood idol.
26:22
Speaker 3: So when he was a teenager, he went to the
26:24
Speaker 3: capital Way capital Dotia to seek out his idol, Lord Shinding,
26:29
Speaker 3: hoping to become his retainer. But when he arrived, he
26:32
Speaker 3: find out that Lord Shinding just passed away. And he
26:37
Speaker 3: then he did the best next best thing is he
26:39
Speaker 3: sought out Lord Shinning's old retainer, Zunger. At that time,
26:47
Speaker 3: Zunger already served as a magistrate, and Nubum became Zunger's retainer,
26:53
Speaker 3: and the two hit it off, even though Zunger is
26:55
Speaker 3: old enough to be Dubun's dad. But they became like
26:59
Speaker 3: a cross general rational friend and and Zangar taught uh
27:03
Speaker 3: the Ubang a lot about both the story of Lord
27:07
Speaker 3: Shinnin and and you know how to uh just just
27:11
Speaker 3: like you know, how to be an effective ruler and
27:14
Speaker 3: stuff like that.
27:15
Speaker 1: Uh.
27:16
Speaker 3: But but that that did last long because the Qin
27:19
Speaker 3: army arrived. You know, it's time for Chin unification. Uh.
27:22
Speaker 3: The Chin annexed the Way state and they issue a
27:25
Speaker 3: warrant for for Zungar for a thousand gold pieces. So
27:29
Speaker 3: danger had to go go in in hiding and Yuban
27:33
Speaker 3: then returned back to back home. Now for an ordinary
27:39
Speaker 3: fat farmer's family who sung is like not doing farm
27:43
Speaker 3: work and going bam around. That means you know, they're
27:46
Speaker 3: not poor. And and more importantly, uh, even though so
27:50
Speaker 3: the UBA's name is Chi. That's like in the old
27:54
Speaker 3: old times the name in the old times China. They
27:57
Speaker 3: name their children by the birth ranking, so bo zone,
28:01
Speaker 3: Suji's oldest child is bull, the second born is its own, Uh,
28:07
Speaker 3: the youngest one is g and if you have any
28:10
Speaker 3: middle child, it's Sue.
28:11
Speaker 1: Uh.
28:12
Speaker 3: The fact that Uban was named g that means uh,
28:16
Speaker 3: his parents intended him to be the last child, last
28:19
Speaker 3: son uh, which means Bank's youngest brother was an accident,
28:24
Speaker 3: you know, like like so, so they had to give
28:27
Speaker 3: him a different name, the Olja. But the Ojabank's younger
28:31
Speaker 3: brother was a famous scholar, and he became famous before
28:36
Speaker 3: the bank's rebellion, And and the Ojao went to study
28:43
Speaker 3: under a student of the famous Confucian scholar Streams. In fact, Uh,
28:50
Speaker 3: the Ojao's teacher, the mentor I forgot his name now,
28:55
Speaker 3: was quite famous on his own that these the chim
29:00
Speaker 3: prime minister These who was also a student of twins
29:04
Speaker 3: said the Jaws teacher was more talented than him. So
29:11
Speaker 3: so for ordinary farmer family to send to have two
29:16
Speaker 3: of their sons do not participate in the farm work
29:19
Speaker 3: and go bum around, especially send their youngest son to
29:22
Speaker 3: go go go, like far away to study under famous
29:27
Speaker 3: Confucian scholar. That means their family is not poor. You know,
29:31
Speaker 3: they can uh you know, and and.
29:34
Speaker 1: So they were not they lost the noble status, but
29:39
Speaker 1: they didn't lose probably most or at least they were
29:43
Speaker 1: able to keep a significant part of their agricultural land
29:48
Speaker 1: most likely. Right, so they have people working for them,
29:50
Speaker 1: and so he can bomb around you and like basically
29:53
Speaker 1: he can like go find himself, right, yes, well that's
29:57
Speaker 1: the contemporary equivalent. Like young man does not want to
30:01
Speaker 1: work once, you know, has ambitions vaguely, and so he
30:04
Speaker 1: seeks out important people and you.
30:06
Speaker 3: Know, yes, yes, but but but they're not rich. But
30:10
Speaker 3: they're not rich rich. As a story I will tell
30:12
Speaker 3: later shows because he so the open after he returned
30:18
Speaker 3: from Capital Dad, and he continued his way of bumming around.
30:22
Speaker 3: And he he loves drinking, and he loves women, and
30:27
Speaker 3: and he would you know, often spend his time at
30:31
Speaker 3: the two taverns in his village. And now those two
30:34
Speaker 3: taverns are both run by women. There that they have
30:38
Speaker 3: women owners. So this also tells you in the back
30:41
Speaker 3: in Sene dynasty that have independent women business owners. And
30:47
Speaker 3: oftentimes those two women tavern owners. At the end of
30:52
Speaker 3: because the open he doesn't have money, so he would
30:55
Speaker 3: he would run a high tab. But toward the end
30:59
Speaker 3: of the year, the two women owner often just cancel
31:02
Speaker 3: his dad drinking debts. Now, there's a couple of reasons
31:07
Speaker 3: for this possible reasons. One is because Dubung is a
31:11
Speaker 3: popular guy. He brings customer to the tavern. You know,
31:15
Speaker 3: he has a lot of friends, you know, he he
31:17
Speaker 3: attracts customer for the tavern. Two Supposedly, this is when
31:26
Speaker 3: many times Uban will fall asleep, you know, after drinking,
31:30
Speaker 3: and the tavern owner will observe a dragon circling around
31:36
Speaker 3: the bunk. Again, I think this is like like papaganda
31:42
Speaker 3: is What's more likely is the Obung was probably banging
31:46
Speaker 3: those two with the tavern owners. You know what, how
31:51
Speaker 3: are you really when Dolan's pobably, you know, like the
31:53
Speaker 3: tavern the tavern owner come there and say, oh, is
31:57
Speaker 3: that a dragg in your pants or you just he
32:00
Speaker 3: to see me so anyway, So so the open continue
32:08
Speaker 3: his his way of of of bumming around. And he
32:12
Speaker 3: has a lot of friends here everywhere he goes so so,
32:16
Speaker 3: but because he doesn't have a lot of money, so
32:18
Speaker 3: what he would do is sometimes he will bring his
32:21
Speaker 3: friends home, you know, so to eat. And and so
32:25
Speaker 3: he he likes to go to his older brother's house
32:29
Speaker 3: and moushes off his older brother with all his friends
32:32
Speaker 3: and and his his sister in law got really tired
32:36
Speaker 3: of his behavior. So one time when he's he brought
32:39
Speaker 3: his friends you know, ready to eat during the meal time.
32:42
Speaker 3: So her, his sister in law, took up like like
32:47
Speaker 3: the pan and the what do you call it, the
32:53
Speaker 3: the laddle laddle and start to scrape the pan. So
32:58
Speaker 3: everybody knew that there's no more food and left it
33:02
Speaker 3: all disappointed. Now the Upum how a grudge over this
33:06
Speaker 3: because later when he became the founder of Han dynasty,
33:11
Speaker 3: he basically in fief all his relatives except his uh
33:15
Speaker 3: his nephew from his older brother and the obam's father
33:22
Speaker 3: had to come bags like come on, you know, like
33:24
Speaker 3: like this is looking bad. Why why you've been so
33:27
Speaker 3: mean to your to your oldest nephew. So the Ubam
33:31
Speaker 3: finally made his oldest nephew a marquis, but he gave
33:36
Speaker 3: him a name. Uh name is the scraping mark.
33:46
Speaker 2: People hold onto things.
33:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, so so so they're not rich rich right, I
33:51
Speaker 3: mean like the fact that his brother in law have
33:53
Speaker 3: to you know, cook in the kitchen. It does looks
33:55
Speaker 3: like they don't have a like servant to cook for them,
33:59
Speaker 3: and they ab uh is not so rich that his
34:04
Speaker 3: brother his sister in lave with mine that he will
34:07
Speaker 3: bring a whole bunch of friends to mooch off of them. Sore.
34:12
Speaker 3: They're maybe middle class, but they have have enough social
34:16
Speaker 3: standing that the richest man in the area would uh
34:19
Speaker 3: you know ingratiate themselves with their family and then uh
34:24
Speaker 3: the obuk also have h or one friend. How shah
34:31
Speaker 3: ying uh shah hoo ying is he Shahying is his
34:38
Speaker 3: official job. He's he's a driver for a carriage driver
34:42
Speaker 3: for the local government, for the local government, and he
34:45
Speaker 3: also doubled as like a county clerk, and so he
34:49
Speaker 3: get to he knows a lot of information because he
34:53
Speaker 3: drives all these government official come in and out and
34:57
Speaker 3: so he became like the obounds like I in years
35:00
Speaker 3: uh uh and and they often like horse around. And
35:03
Speaker 3: one time both of them got drunk and started to
35:07
Speaker 3: to to swort fight and Ubank accidentally stabbed shah hoo ying.
35:13
Speaker 3: Now this is not a big deal because it's that
35:15
Speaker 3: they're just two two friends her horsing around. But somebody,
35:19
Speaker 3: somebody who howled a grudge against the Ubang accused him,
35:24
Speaker 3: accused him to to the to the to the local magistrate. Now,
35:28
Speaker 3: according to the Qing dynasty law, if you injure somebody,
35:32
Speaker 3: you have to go to jail right and and by shaho.
35:36
Speaker 3: But when they called the shaho in witness, shahoe In
35:39
Speaker 3: denied it. He said no, no, no, no no no,
35:41
Speaker 3: nilboun didn't cut me. I cut myself accidentally, right and
35:46
Speaker 3: and for some reason shahoe In still got a throw
35:50
Speaker 3: in jail for bearing false witness. And he he was
35:54
Speaker 3: He stayed in jail for a year before he got
35:57
Speaker 3: he got out and and somehow Ubum himself got off
36:01
Speaker 3: scotch free. And but when Shahoueen got out, said, oh man,
36:05
Speaker 3: when I strike it big, you know I would like
36:08
Speaker 3: I will make sure I repay you but Shahoe is like,
36:11
Speaker 3: don't be silly. You know, like if if you have
36:13
Speaker 3: to go to jail because of me, you know, I
36:15
Speaker 3: will feel bad. But so so so Niubang is that
36:18
Speaker 3: kind of kind of guy. You know, he have friends
36:21
Speaker 3: who are willing to like literally go to jail for him.
36:25
Speaker 3: And and he also has because he he now in
36:35
Speaker 3: the in the low, in the in the locality, in
36:38
Speaker 3: the local uh Mad straight office. There's two also two
36:43
Speaker 3: important government clerks. One is a jailer Tousend, another is
36:48
Speaker 3: the number two uh in the in the county. They
36:54
Speaker 3: both also became friends with with Niubang uh And and
36:59
Speaker 3: these these guys will all play a very important part
37:04
Speaker 3: in the right of the Ubank during the founding of
37:06
Speaker 3: Han dynasty. And this is the difference, I guess between
37:09
Speaker 3: the Ubank and Tencent because one of the problems with
37:13
Speaker 3: Tensen is like all the people that he used to
37:16
Speaker 3: know when he grew up, he had them killed, you know,
37:20
Speaker 3: because because they made him look bad, right, Yeah, but
37:27
Speaker 3: maybe that's just because the different class of people that
37:30
Speaker 3: Tensen used to be associated with, because Hensen he was
37:34
Speaker 3: he was a labor Yeah, he was very poor. Tensen
37:37
Speaker 3: was very poor. He was a tenant farmer. And at
37:40
Speaker 3: that time, when he was a tenant farmer, he used
37:42
Speaker 3: to boast to his workmates, his mates that if one
37:47
Speaker 3: of us strike rich, powerful, we shouldn't forget each other.
37:50
Speaker 3: And his companion just laugh at him. So himself had
37:55
Speaker 3: that drive and ambition to be something bigger, whereas whereas
38:00
Speaker 3: the Ubang he had. You know, he he's in touch
38:04
Speaker 3: with all these prominent families, all the important notables in
38:09
Speaker 3: his local area. And as while he also know the
38:13
Speaker 3: lower class people, he knows like people from all walks
38:16
Speaker 3: of life basically, and so they all had a role
38:21
Speaker 3: to play in his rise.
38:23
Speaker 2: Yeah.
38:24
Speaker 1: Now, I think in this case it's probably the most
38:27
Speaker 1: important fact. Is probably because declared himself king relatively early.
38:32
Speaker 2: And once you're king.
38:33
Speaker 1: You you know, you can't let people talk shit about
38:37
Speaker 1: you anymore, right, you cannot allow embarrassing stories around. But
38:42
Speaker 1: Lio Bung, you know, as we'll get to, you know,
38:44
Speaker 1: he is a political military leader of the of a
38:50
Speaker 1: group of bandits and then and then later of one
38:53
Speaker 1: component of this larger anteaching rebellion, and he is he
38:58
Speaker 1: is not going to declare he is not going to
39:00
Speaker 1: arrogate some royal titles for himself for you know quite
39:02
Speaker 1: some time.
39:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, that that that's true too, so because uh uh
39:12
Speaker 3: and the Obum would soon have uh Sum have get
39:18
Speaker 3: an official job because his buddy buddy was number two Shaohu.
39:23
Speaker 3: Right like during the Qing dynasty, the governor are usually outsiders.
39:28
Speaker 3: The governor or the magistrate. They are imperial appointed appointees
39:33
Speaker 3: who who landed in. They're not locals. They're they're not
39:37
Speaker 3: supposed to be local, so they do not have all bias. Yeah,
39:43
Speaker 3: they do have they do not have kollude with a
39:45
Speaker 3: local powerful family. However, the people work under magistrate, they're
39:52
Speaker 3: all locals. The clerks, they're all locals, and those are
39:55
Speaker 3: the people are friends with with the Obang. So Sha
40:00
Speaker 3: got Niubang recommended Dubunk to become a kind of the
40:05
Speaker 3: police chief uh and and one of his job is
40:10
Speaker 3: to send like corvet labor Uh to the Chin capital.
40:15
Speaker 3: And on one of those occasions that enable Dyuban to
40:20
Speaker 3: travel to the capitol and to see the Chin capital
40:23
Speaker 3: for the first time. And then he also observed the
40:26
Speaker 3: first emperor during his one of his outing and he
40:31
Speaker 3: supposedly said, ah, that's what a man should be like
40:36
Speaker 3: you know, I like to be like that. You know
40:40
Speaker 3: that that's sensual, That's what a man should be. You
40:44
Speaker 3: know that that's that kind of led a kind of
40:46
Speaker 3: ambition in his heart. And by the time when Dubuan
40:51
Speaker 3: was a uh a thirty something. Uh, this will come
40:58
Speaker 3: another pivotal moment here his life. A rich, very rich family,
41:04
Speaker 3: Dowie family came to settle in in there in the
41:08
Speaker 3: county of Pay where Ubu lived. Now, the the the
41:13
Speaker 3: head of the Dowe family. He's rich, but he was
41:17
Speaker 3: escaped running away from some vendetta.
41:19
Speaker 1: Uh.
41:20
Speaker 3: So he decided to settle in Pay and the local magistrate,
41:24
Speaker 3: UH local chin Dinist magistrate wanted to ingratiate himself with
41:29
Speaker 3: with uh because is a rich powerful man. So they
41:34
Speaker 3: decided to hold a banquet uh in his honor to
41:39
Speaker 3: invite all the notables to attend this banquet. Now, the
41:43
Speaker 3: magistrate has several reasons to do this. One is he
41:46
Speaker 3: wanted to you know, ingratiate himself with this new powerful
41:52
Speaker 3: family to come into the region. Two Uh, like we said,
41:58
Speaker 3: the match treate is outsider, he has no local ties.
42:03
Speaker 3: And during the peacetime during the Qing dynasty, peacetime, his
42:08
Speaker 3: power is ensured by the Chin military.
42:11
Speaker 2: Right.
42:12
Speaker 3: But when in the time of chaos, guess what, he's
42:17
Speaker 3: the first one to be killed. You know, all the
42:19
Speaker 3: youth rebels, the first thing they do is skill kill
42:22
Speaker 3: the Chin magistrate and elect their own leader. So so
42:27
Speaker 3: at the end of the first imperson rule, you know,
42:30
Speaker 3: the Chin you know, dynasty is already kind of wobbly,
42:35
Speaker 3: all the Chin. So that the magistrate was kind of
42:40
Speaker 3: you know, building plan B. So's he's trying to form
42:45
Speaker 3: ties with the local powerful family. And two this is
42:48
Speaker 3: an opportunity also to get money from the locals, you know,
42:53
Speaker 3: by hosting a banquet in his name to welcome a
42:56
Speaker 3: new powerful family and issue all the invitation to the notables.
43:01
Speaker 3: Like people are expected to bring gifts, right, and most
43:06
Speaker 3: of the gifts will go into the manstriet's own pocket.
43:09
Speaker 3: You know, this is the way to This is kind
43:12
Speaker 3: of foreign a corruption to to to squeeze money out
43:15
Speaker 3: of the locals, right and so, so they made an
43:18
Speaker 3: announcement that the people who contribute, who bring a gift
43:23
Speaker 3: of one thousand coin in cash, will get to seed
43:27
Speaker 3: it as as guests of honor in the in the
43:31
Speaker 3: hall the rest of the people will have to sit
43:33
Speaker 3: outside of the hall, outside of the pavilion, right, And
43:38
Speaker 3: and then the Obama ride. He has no money, right,
43:42
Speaker 3: but he said I will I will pay ten thousand coins.
43:47
Speaker 3: Now everybody was shocked. And the Dung, the head of
43:53
Speaker 3: the Due family, thought, oh, who is this? You know
43:55
Speaker 3: you want to pay ten thousand? Here, come, come on,
43:59
Speaker 3: sit right next to me. He gets the other right.
44:02
Speaker 3: And now usually this is seeing as an example of
44:06
Speaker 3: you know, the opunk is just a big bullshitter, right.
44:09
Speaker 3: But but the fact that nobody stopped him. You know,
44:13
Speaker 3: everybody knew the Obung, everybody knew he couldn't pay up,
44:17
Speaker 3: yet nobody stopped him. And and supposedly you're gonna he
44:22
Speaker 3: observed the obey, I mean the obank sorry. And he
44:26
Speaker 3: saw and he's an expert on physiognogamy, and he saw, wow,
44:31
Speaker 3: you have such un you your appearances, Uh, let me
44:35
Speaker 3: look at you. And and they start talking, and the
44:37
Speaker 3: Opunk start to like talking us, doing his u bullshit.
44:42
Speaker 3: And then Shaohu warned you. He's like, oh, the bunk
44:46
Speaker 3: he talks big, but he doesn't really accomplish anything. But
44:50
Speaker 3: do you can't just ignore that and keep on talking
44:52
Speaker 3: to the Obang and Bang, you know, start to insult
44:55
Speaker 3: every every officials in the room and so at that time.
45:02
Speaker 3: The one of the reasons that local magistrate hold the
45:04
Speaker 3: banquet is also he wanted to ask for the hand
45:08
Speaker 3: of Dog's daughter in marriage. Right, but do you go
45:13
Speaker 3: was so impressed by the Obang he asked Duban to
45:17
Speaker 3: stay behind after the banquet and he wanted to marry.
45:21
Speaker 3: He said, I have a daughter, nineteen year old unmarried daughter.
45:25
Speaker 3: Would you like to be her husband? And the Obama
45:30
Speaker 3: of course said yes. Now afterwards, uh, the Do's wife said,
45:37
Speaker 3: what's wrong with you? The mag strate want to marry
45:40
Speaker 3: our daughter, and yet you spurn the magistrate offer and
45:43
Speaker 3: you offer our daughter to this like this like local
45:48
Speaker 3: bum you know, like and who did not have the
45:51
Speaker 3: money and claim he had the money to crash our banquet.
45:55
Speaker 3: And he goes, you woman know nothing. You know, I
46:00
Speaker 3: can tell he has from his physiogamy, he's destined for
46:04
Speaker 3: great things. Now I think you know one again. I
46:09
Speaker 3: think that the whole physic nomy story is kind of
46:12
Speaker 3: the later hind dynasty propaganda to say Bungi is their
46:16
Speaker 3: unusual but more likely story is the Dewey family. Do
46:23
Speaker 3: you he came here he's to escape from a vendetta.
46:28
Speaker 3: He also is looking for local connections, right, And then
46:33
Speaker 3: here's this guy, a local police chief who walks who
46:37
Speaker 3: claims he has he's going to pay ten thousand but
46:40
Speaker 3: has no tell ten thousand coins, and nobody is stopping him.
46:43
Speaker 3: And he comes here, sit sit at the guest of
46:46
Speaker 3: the owner seat and start to insult everybody in the
46:48
Speaker 3: local bureaucracy. Again nobody stopping him. You know, so do
46:54
Speaker 3: he goes or a farming the room and the guy
46:58
Speaker 3: like picked up on this guy mus be pretty important locally, right, Yes,
47:02
Speaker 3: more important than the magistrate really, yes, yes, yes, And
47:07
Speaker 3: he did prove to be That did prove to be
47:09
Speaker 3: true later. And so you know the obunk is I
47:13
Speaker 3: think the bank is kind of like the local kind
47:17
Speaker 3: of local mob boss. You know, he may not feel
47:20
Speaker 3: like officially outranked the local mayor, but he actually has
47:25
Speaker 3: a lot of social power and a lot of social standing.
47:29
Speaker 3: Uh And because you know, because his own grandfather used
47:32
Speaker 3: to be lord of the area, so he had that prestige.
47:37
Speaker 3: So this is this, These are all the connections that
47:40
Speaker 3: was looking for in order to you know, have to
47:45
Speaker 3: support see local allies. And now now this is this, well,
47:50
Speaker 3: you know, change Dubunk's life first of all, later do
47:54
Speaker 3: you goes first to do you goose? Two sons also
47:58
Speaker 3: became like du Bunk helper during the establishment of the
48:03
Speaker 3: Han dynasty or not to mention his his own wife
48:06
Speaker 3: and and apparently after Dubang got married, he suddenly changed.
48:10
Speaker 3: He suddenly changed another thing. I have to mention Nubag
48:15
Speaker 3: before he got married, he's already thirty something. He suddenly
48:19
Speaker 3: married this nineteen year old. He's almost like he's like
48:24
Speaker 3: uh uh and he's uh he's almost like twenty years
48:29
Speaker 3: older than his wife. Right. But it's very unual for
48:34
Speaker 3: someone to marry late because in China it's not like
48:37
Speaker 3: the ancient Greece or Rome, where it's common to have
48:40
Speaker 3: like a man who's like forty year old to marry
48:44
Speaker 3: like a teenage woman. And in in in China they
48:48
Speaker 3: usually married both sexes married young and so so d
48:54
Speaker 3: Ubang actually had a son already at this time.
48:58
Speaker 2: Right.
48:59
Speaker 3: But the way it was described being the Grand the
49:04
Speaker 3: record Grant historian, it's very ambiguous. It described the ladies
49:09
Speaker 3: how his baby his baby mama as wife wu, which
49:16
Speaker 3: mean a lot of things. Wife Wu could either mean
49:18
Speaker 3: like in the more recent times, wife wu is somebody. Uh,
49:24
Speaker 3: because in the ancient time you are only allowed one wife.
49:29
Speaker 3: The rest of yours is all concubines. And concubines, you know,
49:34
Speaker 3: like they're almost like property. They're almost like slaves that
49:37
Speaker 3: can be traded away, right, mm hmm. But wife is
49:42
Speaker 3: very different, you know. You for for well to do family,
49:45
Speaker 3: the wife you marry is usually from another well to
49:48
Speaker 3: do family to foreign political alliance, right and uh, and
49:54
Speaker 3: wife who is some Sometimes you want to take a
50:00
Speaker 3: concubine your wife would not allow, so you go have
50:04
Speaker 3: your mistress set up outside of the house, said set
50:08
Speaker 3: up a house with her. But that apparently was not
50:12
Speaker 3: the case because supposedly the open was not married before.
50:16
Speaker 3: You know, but he has a son with this woman.
50:20
Speaker 3: It didn't make sense. And and also when needs to
50:24
Speaker 3: describe DOUI see the the grand historians so much and
50:30
Speaker 3: described as him as fay, Fay just means a spouse
50:34
Speaker 3: of the ruler, right, But but they're different. Description attack
50:40
Speaker 3: to faye to describe whether this is an official wife
50:44
Speaker 3: or a concubine or or or what status. But again
50:48
Speaker 3: grand history story is so much and just says Doe
50:52
Speaker 3: became fay of of the old Bank, which is really
50:58
Speaker 3: odd because why would the Ubang have a song with
51:02
Speaker 3: you know, if he was with a woman he's not
51:05
Speaker 3: married before. So most likely explanation I found was lady
51:11
Speaker 3: Taw is also from a local powerful Tall family, because
51:15
Speaker 3: later there's a lot of people with a surname Tao
51:19
Speaker 3: ind Ubank's army like Tau Sen and later Tau Wusang,
51:24
Speaker 3: et cetera, and and so, but the Tall family is
51:28
Speaker 3: not as powerful as a Dowey family who came later.
51:33
Speaker 3: And so it made sense that the Ubum probably married
51:36
Speaker 3: the ladys how first had a sun by him, but
51:40
Speaker 3: later the you know when you going to offer his
51:44
Speaker 3: daughter because this is a much more important political marriage
51:48
Speaker 3: for the Obang. So it's the nineteen year old became
51:52
Speaker 3: Lubunk's official wife, bumping off his first wife, you know
51:56
Speaker 3: from that from that position, and this is probably why
52:01
Speaker 3: the old Bang and his buddy Shaho Yin got taken
52:05
Speaker 3: to court for that for the time that got there
52:08
Speaker 3: or they were horsing around because Shahoeing got landed in
52:11
Speaker 3: jail for a year. You know Tausen who later become
52:16
Speaker 3: a the Obums followers. Housen was a jailer of it
52:19
Speaker 3: was a county jailer. If he was really friends with
52:22
Speaker 3: shaho Yeing and the Obam, he could easily got Shahoeing
52:26
Speaker 3: out of jail, not having him brought in jail for
52:28
Speaker 3: a year. So there's a speculation maybe the top that
52:32
Speaker 3: was the tough family trying to get back at the
52:35
Speaker 3: old boun for him to have married the daughter of
52:40
Speaker 3: But anyway, that's all speculation. But but but but what
52:44
Speaker 3: I think it's reasonable. It's like, normally, why would somebody
52:49
Speaker 3: make a big deal of two two guys horsing around
52:52
Speaker 3: and injuring each other unless they have a grudge right
52:55
Speaker 3: against them, the grudge and and so so when Ubum
53:02
Speaker 3: became married, he suddenly became a you know, a devoted husband,
53:09
Speaker 3: some somehow devoted family man. He now uh uh, you know,
53:14
Speaker 3: become a conscientious government worker. So one time, but a
53:19
Speaker 3: lot of the time he because his job as a
53:22
Speaker 3: police chief, he has to go take corve labor to
53:25
Speaker 3: the capital. He had to travel. So his wife, his
53:28
Speaker 3: new wife, it's had to work in the field for
53:34
Speaker 3: the family. So one time when uh, the Obum was
53:38
Speaker 3: away from the family, his wife It's and the two
53:44
Speaker 3: of their children were working in the field and the
53:46
Speaker 3: old man passing by asking for a drink. So It's
53:50
Speaker 3: gave him food and water, and the old man then read, uh,
53:57
Speaker 3: you know, apparently the old man is another expert in physiognogamy.
54:01
Speaker 3: Then he he he he reads his appearances and said,
54:07
Speaker 3: madam is destined to be the most honored women in
54:10
Speaker 3: the world. And then he was asked to read the
54:13
Speaker 3: fortune of his the two children. Upon seeing the the
54:18
Speaker 3: the son, he said, oh, the reason that madam was
54:21
Speaker 3: chief such honor is because this boy. And then then
54:26
Speaker 3: when when looking at the daughter, and she said, oh,
54:30
Speaker 3: she will also be honored. So after the old man left,
54:34
Speaker 3: the obank came back home and his wife he told
54:39
Speaker 3: him the story. So so the Obuk went after the
54:44
Speaker 3: old man and then old man look take a look
54:47
Speaker 3: at the Obuk, and he said, earlier, your wife and
54:49
Speaker 3: children all resemble you. Uh, and now I understand where
54:55
Speaker 3: their fortune comes from. There your fortune is so great
54:58
Speaker 3: it cannot be described. And and you know, then then
55:02
Speaker 3: the obank thanked him and said, if it's indeed, as
55:06
Speaker 3: an old man say, I will never forget this kindness again.
55:11
Speaker 3: This might be another like high dynasty propaganda, justify how
55:16
Speaker 3: he's destined and destined to be great. But he also
55:20
Speaker 3: show that they're not that rich, that they had to
55:24
Speaker 3: work in the field, you know, have to have to
55:27
Speaker 3: work in the field. And and so then Uh then
55:33
Speaker 3: that one time that Uh Dubang had to send the
55:37
Speaker 3: corvet labor to man Lee signed to build the first
55:41
Speaker 3: imperson model lium and and they and half of the
55:45
Speaker 3: people deserted. And then he realized by the time he
55:49
Speaker 3: reached the capitol, they're not going to be many people left.
55:52
Speaker 3: So he knew he would be punished for that, so
55:55
Speaker 3: he told the rest of the the prisoners. He said, okay, wow,
56:01
Speaker 3: I just go just go home, you know, like there's
56:04
Speaker 3: no point just go home. I'm always gonna gonna run
56:07
Speaker 3: away and hide. And then at this point Uh.
56:12
Speaker 1: He distributed to like meat and beverages and alcoholic beverages.
56:17
Speaker 1: He held a bank to the group beforehand. I guess
56:21
Speaker 1: this is too probably to encourage most of them to
56:25
Speaker 1: actually stick with him, right, because if he is just
56:28
Speaker 1: going to be a fugitive by himself, I mean, what
56:32
Speaker 1: are his chances. It's not so great. I mean, it
56:34
Speaker 1: will be enormous downgrade for him. But you know, like
56:37
Speaker 1: all these this these corvet, these guys going with him
56:41
Speaker 1: on a going to rather grim fate of several years
56:45
Speaker 1: at least a forced labor, and they're likely it's not
56:49
Speaker 1: going to end well because many of.
56:51
Speaker 2: Them have fled already.
56:52
Speaker 1: Then this guy, uh, I think your captor becomes your
56:56
Speaker 1: benefactor basically, and he says that no, in fact, I'm
57:01
Speaker 1: going to take the risks, take the big risk for
57:04
Speaker 1: all of you. You know, here is a foretaste of
57:08
Speaker 1: you know, what you could get if you basically stick
57:10
Speaker 1: with me. That's what's implied, right, And so I think
57:14
Speaker 1: the intention is that most of them would stick with him,
57:16
Speaker 1: and so when he becomes a figurative, they would follow.
57:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, most of them did, because most of them are
57:22
Speaker 3: all they're they're convicts, right, they're they're they're not ordinary
57:25
Speaker 3: coreve labor. They're like prisoners who were sent to do
57:29
Speaker 3: hard labor and they have nowhere to go. So they
57:32
Speaker 3: all decided to most of them decide to join him.
57:35
Speaker 3: So they all got well, you know, they just had
57:38
Speaker 3: some wine and they were a little bit drunk, and
57:41
Speaker 3: when they're passing through a lake, somebody came back and said,
57:45
Speaker 3: there's a giant white snake blocking the road. And the
57:50
Speaker 3: the oupum was already a little tipsy. He's like, why
57:53
Speaker 3: why would you are you a man? Why would you
57:55
Speaker 3: be afraid of a snake. So he took his sword,
57:58
Speaker 3: went over he cut the giant snaking half. And later
58:06
Speaker 3: people came to the to that same spot and saw
58:09
Speaker 3: old women were crying, and they asked the old man woman,
58:13
Speaker 3: why are you crying? She said, my son was killed.
58:18
Speaker 3: My song was the song of the emperor White. My
58:23
Speaker 3: my song is a song of the white Emperor, and
58:26
Speaker 3: he met the song of the Red Emperor. And this
58:30
Speaker 3: is the song of the Red Emperor killed my son.
58:33
Speaker 3: And now this is this story. And after she said that,
58:38
Speaker 3: she disappeared. Now the story started to spread, and later
58:42
Speaker 3: the people told the story to the old bank, and
58:45
Speaker 3: the bank was was pretty happy about it because this
58:48
Speaker 3: is again this was kind of the fortune portend of
58:52
Speaker 3: his own great greatness, as that means he's the song
58:56
Speaker 3: of the Red Emperor, right, and uh, again this is
59:00
Speaker 3: might not might be another Han dynasty propaganda, or it
59:04
Speaker 3: could be a propaganda was spread by the Bounds follower.
59:08
Speaker 2: It was spread at the time.
59:10
Speaker 1: Probably It's like it's basically, you know, the real life
59:13
Speaker 1: Misterinara product Tiva, you know from Doune, Right, he's Lisa
59:16
Speaker 1: al Gay basically, except that he's the one who's probably
59:19
Speaker 1: spread the story.
59:20
Speaker 2: He is the that.
59:25
Speaker 1: Because you know, joining him as a bandit up in
59:28
Speaker 1: the hills is still a kind of risky proposition. But
59:30
Speaker 1: if you know superstitious people, you know, you think maybe
59:33
Speaker 1: he has he's chosen for something. It still lends an
59:37
Speaker 1: aura to him. And as the chin state looks more
59:42
Speaker 1: more and more unstable, you know, people will gravity to
59:45
Speaker 1: any like natural source of authority. Right, So if you've
59:50
Speaker 1: got some superstitious, super supernatural aura.
59:53
Speaker 2: About yourself, that definitely helps.
59:56
Speaker 3: Yeah. So at that time, uh so when Bum became
1:00:03
Speaker 3: a bandit, but that that affected his his family, his
1:00:10
Speaker 3: you know, his wife got locked up and because is
1:00:15
Speaker 3: young and pretty, uh the the the prison guard decide
1:00:22
Speaker 3: to to sexually abuse her. Now there's there's one prison guard,
1:00:27
Speaker 3: uh I think the name is and I have to
1:00:30
Speaker 3: double check. I forgot his name. He got angry and
1:00:33
Speaker 3: he defended and he beat up the other prison guard
1:00:37
Speaker 3: who tried to sexually assault and after that, you know,
1:00:42
Speaker 3: became safe in jail. And because she and his househeid
1:00:47
Speaker 3: they're both friends with they are able to get it's released.
1:00:54
Speaker 3: Now the guy who rescued it's you know, just bought
1:00:59
Speaker 3: him and his fastly fortune for generation like generational wealth
1:01:04
Speaker 3: much later anyway, So uh so, Dwitza then went to
1:01:08
Speaker 3: seek out her husband in the mountains, in the mountain
1:01:12
Speaker 3: mountains where he be bandits, and somehow he found him
1:01:17
Speaker 3: and and and Dubak asked his why how did you
1:01:20
Speaker 3: find me here? And du Itza said, oh, because you
1:01:24
Speaker 3: there's often a cloud about where you stay. This is
1:01:28
Speaker 3: why I can always find you where I'm looking. And
1:01:33
Speaker 3: Dubum was pleased. And then you know, the stories again
1:01:36
Speaker 3: spread about the Ubuns followers about him have some special
1:01:40
Speaker 3: you know, divine assistance. Right, there's some special auspicious clouds
1:01:45
Speaker 3: that's followed him around. Again, I think that's another story
1:01:50
Speaker 3: spread by du Boun's follower to shore up his prestige.
1:01:55
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. So at this time the now we are
1:02:03
Speaker 3: at the year two O nine BC, when Tensen raised
1:02:08
Speaker 3: a banner or rebellion in in uh In July. At
1:02:13
Speaker 3: that time, Uh, the Obama has already been been abandoned
1:02:17
Speaker 3: for a couple of years. So the local magistrate was worried,
1:02:24
Speaker 3: right and he could because he saw the rebellion was
1:02:26
Speaker 3: spread like wildfire. So he also wanted to rejoin the rebellion.
1:02:31
Speaker 3: And then tausend and Shell, being his right hand man, said, look,
1:02:36
Speaker 3: you're not a local here. You know, if you you
1:02:39
Speaker 3: have been a Chin dynasty appointed magistrate, it's more likely
1:02:44
Speaker 3: the local youth will will kill you. And and and
1:02:48
Speaker 3: then appointed their own leader to take over. So if
1:02:52
Speaker 3: you want to buy in, why don't you recall the
1:02:56
Speaker 3: fugitives because they're locals, they have local support. This way
1:03:00
Speaker 3: the locals will support you. So the magistrate thought it
1:03:04
Speaker 3: was a good idea. Then send people to look for
1:03:06
Speaker 3: the Ubank to come back. And and the Oubam was
1:03:10
Speaker 3: very happy, so he gathered at this time, he already
1:03:13
Speaker 3: gathered around him several hundred men to come back to
1:03:16
Speaker 3: the county. And at this time the county magistrate changed
1:03:19
Speaker 3: his mind. He realized, oh wait, wait, wait, wait a minute,
1:03:22
Speaker 3: if the Ubunk comes back, the Upah is going to
1:03:24
Speaker 3: be the leader, right, So he then Uh ordered to
1:03:29
Speaker 3: to to to to high high set on high alert.
1:03:34
Speaker 3: And and not only that, he tried to arrest uh
1:03:38
Speaker 3: Shauku and and house and to have them executed for
1:03:42
Speaker 3: being uh you know, for being the ubunk spy inside
1:03:45
Speaker 3: the city.
1:03:46
Speaker 1: So this this magistrate is like was one step ahead
1:03:50
Speaker 1: of the magistrate who tried to recoup showing and showing
1:03:53
Speaker 1: you right, that guy like brought these guys, brought these
1:03:58
Speaker 1: like local big local big wigs in and then they
1:04:03
Speaker 1: killed him right away and basically did a coup. And
1:04:06
Speaker 1: here he hasn't quite he stopped himself before that point,
1:04:10
Speaker 1: so he can still try to make a fight of it. Yes,
1:04:13
Speaker 1: so he sent order to arrest Shaohun thousand and shaw Tousend.
1:04:19
Speaker 1: They knew what was going on, so they escaped. They
1:04:22
Speaker 1: climb over the city wall to join join the Ubun.
1:04:26
Speaker 1: So Yubum now gathered more than a thousand people to
1:04:30
Speaker 1: be seized the city and they but they don't have
1:04:34
Speaker 1: any siege equipment right and the city still has walls.
1:04:38
Speaker 1: So Dubaum then shot a letter inside. They attached a
1:04:43
Speaker 1: letter on an arrow and shot the arrow inside the city.
1:04:46
Speaker 1: And the letter is addressed to the people inside the
1:04:49
Speaker 1: pay county. He said, look right now, all the rebels
1:04:53
Speaker 1: from all over will soon gather here. And and if
1:04:57
Speaker 1: you help the magistrate to defend the city, when when
1:05:01
Speaker 1: the rebels from other places come and take the city,
1:05:05
Speaker 1: they will sack the city. You know, these these repels
1:05:08
Speaker 1: are they're the outsiders, they are foreigners. They have no
1:05:10
Speaker 1: attachment to you. They will sack the city, I trust me.
1:05:14
Speaker 1: But whereas if you kill the match, strate open the
1:05:16
Speaker 1: gate to you, because we're locals, you know, we we
1:05:20
Speaker 1: will be okay, Like choice is yours.
1:05:23
Speaker 3: You know, either you wait until you be sacked by
1:05:26
Speaker 3: by other repels who come here, or you kill the
1:05:28
Speaker 3: magch straight and join us. And so the choice is clear,
1:05:31
Speaker 3: so that all the locals and rose up and kill
1:05:34
Speaker 3: the match straight open the city gate. And they at
1:05:38
Speaker 3: the time shelflents housing. They're most senior in the in
1:05:43
Speaker 3: the you know, local bureaue administration, administration. But they don't
1:05:47
Speaker 3: want to be the leader because they you know, they
1:05:50
Speaker 3: have their plans. They know like if they're the leader,
1:05:54
Speaker 3: when if the rebellion fail, they will be their heads.
1:05:58
Speaker 3: So they don't want to be the leader. So they
1:06:00
Speaker 3: want they they all want promoted the obang as their
1:06:05
Speaker 3: leader as a leader of their their little rebellion because
1:06:09
Speaker 3: Lil Bank is already a major criminal. Yes, right, it's
1:06:13
Speaker 3: not such a he's kind of already committed, so it's
1:06:15
Speaker 3: not such a huge big deal. It's such such a
1:06:18
Speaker 3: big deal for him to be become a rebel on
1:06:21
Speaker 3: top of becoming a bandit leader, right, yes, yes, so
1:06:24
Speaker 3: so the Oubank then quickly, like his rebellion force grew
1:06:29
Speaker 3: like over several thousand men, and he sent people to
1:06:33
Speaker 3: take surrounding cities and uh and and then we're already
1:06:38
Speaker 3: at one hour mark, so we we're gonna leave it
1:06:42
Speaker 3: here and any questions or comments, Uh.
1:06:47
Speaker 2: No, that's it.
1:06:48
Speaker 1: I look forward to the uh next part of the story.
1:06:53
Speaker 1: It is very it's it's a gripping account because it's
1:06:57
Speaker 1: hot because he's building up his base and like defeats
1:07:02
Speaker 1: and he will defeat government troops. And then he is
1:07:04
Speaker 1: going to lose his base rapidly because of issues of
1:07:07
Speaker 1: a mistake in trust in who to trust in the
1:07:12
Speaker 1: among his subordinates. But in a way it's a kind
1:07:15
Speaker 1: of it's an perhaps inevitable decision, but we will talk
1:07:19
Speaker 1: about that then.
1:07:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're you're you're giving away spoilers, but
1:07:23
Speaker 3: so eventually so right now, the Ubank started as an
1:07:27
Speaker 3: independent rebel right in his local area, but he's like
1:07:30
Speaker 3: a small fish in a in a very large pond.
1:07:35
Speaker 3: H Right now, we have the Chin imperial army that
1:07:39
Speaker 3: was bearing down, and you have different rebels trying to
1:07:43
Speaker 3: coalesce together after the death of Ten Sent. And we
1:07:47
Speaker 3: will see how in the next episode how the Ubang
1:07:51
Speaker 3: will eventually join hands with Hiang Nang and Shang to
1:07:58
Speaker 3: to band together to resist the Chain imperial forces when
1:08:02
Speaker 3: we come back next week. Thanks everyone for listening. Until
1:08:07
Speaker 3: next time, Bye bye bye bye mm hmm