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Mounting concerns around young people’s device and social media · Kvetch & Release

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  Speaker 1: Twisting. Hey, we're back John Leckey here on AM eight
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  Speaker 1: hundred c k l W. Back to school is rapidly approaching,
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  Speaker 1: with it being the twenty eighth of August, And of
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  Speaker 1: course what this means is that kids are gonna be
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  Speaker 1: in school. They're gonna have their cell phones in their pockets,
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  Speaker 1: which you know, they've always got their cell phones in
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  Speaker 1: their pockets. Quite frankly, these days, I wonder if there's
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  Speaker 1: gonna be a huge difference in terms of screen time
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  Speaker 1: in school versus at home. But regardless, there are concerns
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  Speaker 1: about young people's device and social media usage as it
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  Speaker 1: continues to increase. We've seen some cell phone bands pasted
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  Speaker 1: in several jurisdictions. But there are still risks, of course,
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  Speaker 1: that are associated with all of this. And joining me
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  Speaker 1: right now to discuss is the director of research at
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  Speaker 1: Media Smarts, doctor Kara Reeson. Boyvn joins me right now.
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  Speaker 1: How you doing, doctor, Hi?
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  Speaker 2: Good, thanks for having me.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining me here. So what
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  Speaker 1: are some of the risks here and concerns about young
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  Speaker 1: people using devices and social media? Still for those who
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  Speaker 1: might not have spent much time thinking about this.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think it's no surprise that screen
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  Speaker 2: time or device use is one of parents or guardians
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  Speaker 2: top related you know, tech concerns. But kids and teens
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  Speaker 2: and tweens are also worried about their screen news. And
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  Speaker 2: I pointed out because I think it kind of goes
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  Speaker 2: against our assumptions about kids sort of constantly being on
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  Speaker 2: their device. And while they may have increased screen news,
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  Speaker 2: they also are pretty self reflexive about the fact that
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  Speaker 2: they are using their device or when they're using their device,
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  Speaker 2: perhaps excessively, and they want tips and tools for how
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  Speaker 2: to engage in better or healthier habits.
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  Speaker 1: Well, that's good to hear that they have more self
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  Speaker 1: control or at least recognition than I have. Quite frankly,
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  Speaker 1: what are some tips that might be good for people
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  Speaker 1: who are youth who are looking to reduce their screen
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  Speaker 1: usage or to help potentially mitigate, you know, some of
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  Speaker 1: the negative effects with it. And I guess that could
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  Speaker 1: be practiced, you know, not just by young people, but
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  Speaker 1: you know people my age as well or even older.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's absolutely right. I think these you know,
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  Speaker 2: tips and tricks are not just for young people, although
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  Speaker 2: it's really important to start building better healthy habits. At
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  Speaker 2: a very young age, so, you know, things like teaching
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  Speaker 2: kids about sticky design, about how social media apps, things
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  Speaker 2: like Snapchat and TikTok are designed to keep users engaged
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  Speaker 2: for as long as possible and as often as possible.
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  Speaker 2: They're designed to keep us coming back, and research shows
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  Speaker 2: that often just you know, teaching that little piece about
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  Speaker 2: self awareness has a really positive impact on especially for
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  Speaker 2: young people. You know, framing how we need to have
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  Speaker 2: things like rules around when we're using the technology and
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  Speaker 2: how often. So it can be a tool for a
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  Speaker 2: parent to say, hey, these things are designed to keep
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  Speaker 2: us on them for as long as possible, So we're
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  Speaker 2: going to set a timer for how often you're on
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  Speaker 2: TikTok or how many YouTube videos you're watching in a day.
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  Speaker 2: No taking breaks. Research shows short breaks can be just
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  Speaker 2: as beneficial as longer digital detoxes. You know, you can
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  Speaker 2: have tech free times and zones in your house, and
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  Speaker 2: our house is at the dinner hour and then we
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  Speaker 2: try not to use devices in the hour, you know,
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  Speaker 2: the hours before our children go to bed, and if
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  Speaker 2: I do have to go on my device, I try
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  Speaker 2: to be really clear about what the purpose of that
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  Speaker 2: device use is in front of my kids. So I'll say, hey,
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to check the weather app to see if
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  Speaker 2: we need an umbrella tomorrow or sunscreen, and then I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to put it away. I'm going to not get
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  Speaker 2: sucked into emails or other things if I can help it.
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  Speaker 2: And you know, just that modeling, especially for the young
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  Speaker 2: people that might be in your life, is really critically
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  Speaker 2: important for helping them to build these habits.
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  Speaker 1: I've always found it to be a little bit ironic
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  Speaker 1: and kind of funny when you hear parents saying, like,
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  Speaker 1: you put away your telephone, don't want to see cell
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  Speaker 1: phone use right now, but they're sitting there on their
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  Speaker 1: phones NonStop, constantly.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's really hard. I think we all
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  Speaker 2: have to acknowledge that, you know, the technology is such
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  Speaker 2: an important and pivotal part of our lives, but being
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  Speaker 2: mindful of our own use, you know, as well as
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  Speaker 2: those around us, is critically important. And I think right now,
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  Speaker 2: you know, you mentioned bands at the outset of this discussion,
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  Speaker 2: and I think what's really important, or what's potentially harmful,
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  Speaker 2: is the use of addiction. When we're talking about excessive
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  Speaker 2: screen use, the addiction framing can have a sort of
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  Speaker 2: backfire effect where it can result in, especially for young
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  Speaker 2: people's feelings of shame and blame, and they can engage
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  Speaker 2: in sort of closetive use where they're experiencing all of
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  Speaker 2: the same harms but now in isolation for fear of
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  Speaker 2: being punished if they reach out to the adults in
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  Speaker 2: their lives. And I think the other thing that we
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  Speaker 2: need to be mindful of is the way that addiction
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  Speaker 2: can sometimes have a kind of psychological backfire effect where
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  Speaker 2: we feel helpless and powerless and like we've just comes
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  Speaker 2: to the technology. Instead, we need to push back against
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  Speaker 2: that and remind ourselves and especially young people, we can
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  Speaker 2: control our tech use, we can build better habits, and
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  Speaker 2: we need to help them do that at as early
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  Speaker 2: an age as possible. And so you know, parents, educators,
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  Speaker 2: we all need to be supported with the skills and
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  Speaker 2: the tools to be able to help young people build
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  Speaker 2: those practices. And finally, it's about accountability and addiction. Framing
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  Speaker 2: sort of leads to a sort of natural progression that
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  Speaker 2: will will ban it or sort of zero some tolerance.
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  Speaker 2: But the problem with that is that it sort of
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  Speaker 2: doesn't hold platforms, for example, accountable for that kind of
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  Speaker 2: sticky design or some of the designs that are not
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  Speaker 2: child friendly, and you know, there needs to be a
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  Speaker 2: role for governments to hold platforms accountable. So we don't
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  Speaker 2: want to sort of do a way with accountability and
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  Speaker 2: place the owners solely on the shoulders up either use
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  Speaker 2: themselves or parents or educators. You know.
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  Speaker 1: So we're going to be looking at a band that's
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  Speaker 1: coming into effect. You're in Ontario starting in just what
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  Speaker 1: a couple of days, I suppose for school children. When
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  Speaker 1: it comes to children that are under the grade six,
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  Speaker 1: grade seven, they're not allowed to have their phones out
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  Speaker 1: at all, and then from grade seven to twelve they'll
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  Speaker 1: be allowed to use it during between classes and at lunch.
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  Speaker 1: But they're going to be removing social media websites from
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  Speaker 1: all school networks and school devices. Is that a good thing?
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  Speaker 2: I think it's complicated. I think, you know, we don't
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  Speaker 2: want to lose those opportunities, as I've been saying, to
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  Speaker 2: help young people understand and determine for themselves the moments
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  Speaker 2: that which is appropriate to have a device and you know,
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  Speaker 2: and to use it in appropriate ways and the context
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  Speaker 2: in which it's not like you mentioned, you know, when
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  Speaker 2: is it appropriate to have your device out in the
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  Speaker 2: class and what are you doing with it versus you know,
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  Speaker 2: if you're recess and using it on your own. I think,
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  Speaker 2: you know, we don't. We want to be able to
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  Speaker 2: again sort of give young people the opportunity to build
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  Speaker 2: those skills. And I think that a lot of schools
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  Speaker 2: have been doing this already. I think it's really challenging
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  Speaker 2: for teachers to have to police device you from the classroom,
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  Speaker 2: and I can wholly appreciate that, and a structural approach
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  Speaker 2: may help them to do that better. I think that
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  Speaker 2: you know, of course, concerns about difficult online relationship, cyberbullying,
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  Speaker 2: online hate, harmful content, these are all real concerns. I
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  Speaker 2: don't think they're going to go away with the VAN
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  Speaker 2: and that we still need to be prepared to have
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  Speaker 2: those open you know, ongoing conversations about that. And you know,
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  Speaker 2: Media Smarts has been building in these resources for quite
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  Speaker 2: a while now, both for families and the classroom, setting
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  Speaker 2: freely available on our website, and I would just really
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  Speaker 2: encourage folks to continue to go and access them that
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  Speaker 2: they're free, you can get them at Media Safe.
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  Speaker 1: It must be difficult dealing with a situation where I
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  Speaker 1: mean social media. I mean as long as it's been around,
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  Speaker 1: you know, over what since about two thousand and five,
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  Speaker 1: two thousand and four in earnest I suppose, with MySpace
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  Speaker 1: being the iteration of it. To where we're at now,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, we still don't have a handle on it.
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  Speaker 1: We still don't know what the long term implications of
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  Speaker 1: social media are on people. We have some pretty good
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  Speaker 1: knowledge about what the short term are, being able to
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  Speaker 1: see how people can get addicted to it and what
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  Speaker 1: some of the problems are. But it's a constantly evolving field.
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  Speaker 1: And while there are some good operator I even want
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  Speaker 1: to say good operators. While there are some operators that
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  Speaker 1: are better in this sphere than there are others, there
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  Speaker 1: are some that are really pretty malicious and that are
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  Speaker 1: not out in people's best interests at all. What's it
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  Speaker 1: like operating in this sphere trying to come up with
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  Speaker 1: best tips and tricks for young people amidst an environment
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  Speaker 1: where you have actors that are constantly trying to exploit them.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think there is important to note
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  Speaker 2: that there is actually very little evidence to date that
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  Speaker 2: the devices of the apps we're using are as addictive
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  Speaker 2: as substances like tobacco or activities like gambling are I mean,
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  Speaker 2: I think we need to study it further. But I
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  Speaker 2: think the difference, the real difference, is that there are
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  Speaker 2: benefits for things like identity play, things like creative social uses,
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  Speaker 2: and so we don't want to lose sight of that.
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  Speaker 2: Now that said, I mean, of course there are instances
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  Speaker 2: of harmful content malicious actors like you mentioned. I think
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  Speaker 2: we need to be mindful of, you know, not conflating
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  Speaker 2: sort of extreme instances with everyday occurrences. However, yeah, we
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  Speaker 2: can't disregard some of the potential online harms that young
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  Speaker 2: people are going to face, and so for me, I
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  Speaker 2: think it's all the more important that we have a
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  Speaker 2: sort of structural approach to how we're going to teach
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  Speaker 2: young people from a very early age how to mitigate
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  Speaker 2: these things. And the work that we do with young people,
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  Speaker 2: they are very clear that they want to learn about
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  Speaker 2: these things. They want to learn about them at home,
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  Speaker 2: but they also want to learn about them in the classroom.
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  Speaker 2: And so Media's Marks has been advocating for a really
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  Speaker 2: long time for a sort of core curriculum in the
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  Speaker 2: area of digital media literacy to touch on several of
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  Speaker 2: those issues you just mentioned in a way that allows
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  Speaker 2: teachers to build this into their already busy schedules. And
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  Speaker 2: I think, you know, doing that, taking that sort of
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  Speaker 2: structural approach, is going to have some really important long
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  Speaker 2: term effects because these are life skills. These are skills
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  Speaker 2: that you young people need, you know now, but also
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  Speaker 2: we all need them, you know, throughout our life course,
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  Speaker 2: and so building them again at an early age is
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  Speaker 2: going to be really important. And we don't have that
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  Speaker 2: in that country. In our country yet, we don't have
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  Speaker 2: digital media literacy across core education curriculum in the CATD
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  Speaker 2: twelve sector, really in any province or territory.
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  Speaker 1: That social media literacy seems like obviously an incredibly necessary thing.
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  Speaker 1: I wonder, and I guess we're going to view a
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  Speaker 1: little bit off course here and feel free to course
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  Speaker 1: correct and we can head back to it if you
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  Speaker 1: don't want to discuss this. But I wonder about the
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  Speaker 1: content that's actually going on social media and how that
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  Speaker 1: comes into play with youth. I think specifically to you know,
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  Speaker 1: deep fakes, to the use of generative AI. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: it's a completely different social media landscape than I was
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  Speaker 1: than it was there when I was in high school,
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  Speaker 1: and that was well over a decade ago.
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  Speaker 2: Now, no, absolutely, And I think that's why, for example,
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  Speaker 2: teaching skills like authenticating and verifying information and teaching again
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  Speaker 2: from a really young age, how to be critical consumers
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  Speaker 2: of information today. And you've mentioned the way that the
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  Speaker 2: landscape is changing, and it's changing really quickly, almost in
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  Speaker 2: real time. And you know, I heard someone commenting this
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  Speaker 2: morning on NBC News about how the AI that we
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  Speaker 2: have today is sort of the worst it's ever going
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  Speaker 2: to be. It's only going to get better. So looking
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  Speaker 2: for things like seven fingers or blurred images, I mean,
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  Speaker 2: that's not going to be the tried and tested way
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  Speaker 2: to determine if something is a deep fake in two years,
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  Speaker 2: maybe because they know the technology will have adapted and
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  Speaker 2: evolved and learned from the errors that it's making now.
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  Speaker 2: And instead, what we need is to teach people how
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  Speaker 2: to be critical consumers of AI and critical consumers of
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  Speaker 2: information and the context of AI and deep fake. We
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  Speaker 2: need to teach people how to go to the original
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  Speaker 2: source of an image to be the determine was this
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  Speaker 2: created by AI or by you know, an account that's
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  Speaker 2: run by a person and so again, I think it
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  Speaker 2: comes back to building digital literacy into the classroom and
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  Speaker 2: then into other sort of community settings, into the home,
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  Speaker 2: and being able to reach people as they continue, you know,
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  Speaker 2: throughout our life, to have to mitigate and navigate these
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  Speaker 2: problems and challenges.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you put it in such an interesting way there
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  Speaker 1: that this is the worst AI that we're ever going
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  Speaker 1: to see. It'll just get better and better. I guess
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: it's like that meme that goes around right now it's
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  Speaker 1: the hottest summer ever. Nope, it's just the hottest summer
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  Speaker 1: right now. Will be even hotter as well. Hey, I
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  Speaker 1: want to thank you so much for your time, doctor,
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  Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. It's a really important topic.
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  Speaker 2: Oh my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you. Doctor. Gara Breeson Voiven is the director of
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  Speaker 1: research at Media Smart Swiss five one nine seven nine
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  Speaker 1: two CKLW text us your thoughts about social media usage,
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  Speaker 1: device usage and youth Too much? Too little? Probably not
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  Speaker 1: many people saying too little. Want to know your thoughts
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  Speaker 1: five nine seven nine two Sea Kaled