Latest / Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof / 34: Dr. Bridget Esteves PhD, RDN, LDN - FOOD INDUSTRY / REGULATORY AFFAIRS
Transcript
- Kristen Hicks-roof: Welcome back to Nutrition Connection, the show where science meets storytelling. I'm your host, Dr. Kristin Hicks-Roof dietitian, researcher and lifelong advocate of the role of nutrition, health and wellness. Each episode, I get to sit down with dietitians and nutrition experts all across the food and healthcare landscape. Leaders whose work touches nearly every aspect of our lives. So whether you're a student, a seasoned professional, or someone simply curious about food, nutrition, and health, this podcast is just for you. The views, thoughts, and comments on this podcast do not reflect those of my employer nor the employers of my guests. So let's go ahead and get connected. Today, I'm really excited to bring on a rock star. have Dr. Bridgette Hannon-Esteves. She's the principal scientist Scientific and regulatory affairs at Mars snacking. Welcome to the show Bridget. Bridget Hannon Esteves: Thank you, so happy to be here. Kristen Hicks-roof: So I always love bringing people who are in scientific and regulatory affairs because you have to blend science with science communications to a variety of stakeholder audiences. And so I think it's a really great way to explain how science communications works in the regulatory space. So I'm excited to have you on and talk about what you do in your day to day. But before we get there, what inspired you and made you want to become a nutrition professional, Bridget? Bridget Hannon Esteves: Yeah, great question. And yes, excited to talk about regulatory too. I feel like I wear a lot of different hats and need to communicate science to dozens of different audiences. So yes, so we'll get there. But ⁓ truly what inspired me to ⁓ become a nutrition professional was I actually started out ⁓ in the pre-med track, which ⁓ I think a lot of guests on your podcast have before as well. during undergraduate school, or I'm sorry, during undergrad, I was double majoring in biology and psychology. I was getting ready for the MCAT. I ⁓ was checking out the boxes to go to medical school. ⁓ following my bachelor's degree, I hadn't applied yet. So I took a gap year and I worked as a medical scribe. So I was working for a primary care physician and I was sitting in all of his ⁓ patient visits with him doing his charting and listening to these interactions. like, many other primary care offices across the United States. He saw patients that had chronic diseases such as type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, high cholesterol. And there were many instances where he would sit down with his patient and say, I know there's a huge component of diet and lifestyle that attributes to this disease progression, but I don't have the knowledge to offer any advice. And I think that was very... refreshing and unique from a physician to say, I know it's important, but I don't really know how to help you as a patient. And that really got me excited to learn more about nutrition. Prior to that, my frame of nutrition had actually been in the context of sports nutrition. ⁓ I played lacrosse at the collegiate level. So I ⁓ took a quick interest in ⁓ how to fuel myself to get through. a practice or a game or recover so that I could get back to the library after practice was over. So was a new way of thinking about nutrition from a ⁓ chronic disease prevention lens. so what I did towards the end of that gap year was instead of applying to medical school, I applied to graduate programs in nutrition. And I thought, you know, I want to learn a little bit more about this, but then I'll take that knowledge and I'll head over to medical school. ⁓ spoiler alert, that didn't happen. ⁓ I quickly fell in love with the field of nutrition. ⁓ And my first ⁓ role in nutrition in my graduate school position was a nutrition education program. So ⁓ I was fortunate to get a fellowship to go to the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and work on a nutrition education program for Hispanic families. So right away I was getting thrown into nutrition education. in English and in Spanish for kids and for adults and I think it took about three months into the program where I was like, oh gosh, you've hooked me. I'm not going to medical school. So I stayed on for my PhD. I did the dietetics curriculum and did my internship towards the end of my PhD and I haven't left and I hopefully never will. Kristen Hicks-roof: It's really interesting how you talked about how is that medical scribe because you're right in the sense that a lot of physicians often don't acknowledge that they don't have those skill sets and there's a lot of barriers to referral to dietitians. And then that's something that I'm super passionate about. How do we bridge that gap? But it reminded me, so I used to work at a law firm when I was in college. high school and college and I would go through and do scribing in a law firm and I promised myself I would never be a lawyer after that job because I'm like, but it made me realize that I wanted to help families and I wanted to help a lot of kids and like kind of public health level impact versus the individual level impact. And that's still kind of what drives me today is how do I have high level public health level impact? So I do think each of these experiences that we have throughout our careers are meant to be for one reason or another, and they help to guide and direct us into what's to come. And I love nutrition education. My whole PhD was on nutrition education. So I think that's super fun that you've really found your passion there. So let's talk about your journey though, because to go from nutrition education to community all the way to regulatory, what kind of jobs have you had and how did you ultimately get to where you are now at Mars? Bridget Hannon Esteves: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So like I said, I started my academic journey in nutrition education and then ⁓ towards the end of my master's degree, I wanted to explore a little bit more about dietary interventions and get into the clinical nutrition a little bit more. So for my PhD, which was also at the University of Illinois, ⁓ I worked on the role of ⁓ actually ⁓ different dietary interventions focused on actually the role of an avocado on ⁓ cardio metabolic health ⁓ in individuals with obesity. And I was specifically interested in ⁓ the role of genetics in modulating that different response to the diet. So very different than nutrition education, very different than what I'm doing now, but ⁓ I really enjoyed my time at the University of because I was able to explore all of these different things. ⁓ So, yeah, so did nutrition education, did, ⁓ you know, nutrient gene interactions, did my dietetic internship. And then ⁓ during my time in graduate school, I was fortunate enough to intern for Abbott Nutrition. So, so at the University of Illinois, they have what's called Research Park. So a lot of little or not little, a lot of companies, Abbott is not a little company. A lot of companies will have a satellite office. on Illinois's campus and Abbott was one of them. So I got to work for about 10 hours a week during graduate school with their nutrition science team. ⁓ And so I got great exposure early on to what it meant to be an industry scientist. I was helping the team with their literature reviews or data gathering or presentations or just helping with that very different kind of science communication that you do as a graduate student or even as a dietetic intern. was quickly learning how to package science ⁓ for business. yeah. Kristen Hicks-roof: I'm smiling because I feel that in my day to day, I am always doing that is how do I package a scientist and every stakeholder I talk to, the package looks very different, right? And so I was telling my husband the other day, I'm like, I need to stop building slide decks, but I can't because every slide deck is catered to that stakeholder, that audience, which is different. And so it does create a lot of different ways of how we interpret the science. Bridget Hannon Esteves: is different. Yep. Yeah, it's different. Kristen Hicks-roof: So I think that's cool that you got to learn that and have that experience early on. I actually didn't learn that early on and so I had to learn it throughout my career. Bridget Hannon Esteves: And I will say it was so interesting to do. I was doing this concurrent to my dietetic internship. So I was going to my dietetic internship during the day. And then depending on the day of the week, I was either going to research park and working at Abbott, or I was finishing my dissertation. So I really was in this cyclone of different methods of communication. And I thought it was so, I mean, at the time I was drowning in chaos, but looking back, I'm like, gosh, what great exposure and plasticity for my brain to have these different types of communication day to day that now help me in my industry job. You know, I would spend my morning doing diabetes education and then I would switch to preparing a manuscript and then I would switch again to preparing an update for senior leadership. So it was just a whirlwind of different types of scientific communication and I don't think I have been in that. you know intense communication need since because you know of course I do still talk to a lot of different people but at least they're all ⁓ usually speaking ⁓ at least the same broad topic. Kristen Hicks-roof: It's funny because it just reminds me of you talked about how you were like handling so much, right? That's a lot. mean, a doctoral writing is a full-time job, an internship, even though they say it like 10 hours, it's often another full-time job. And then an internship is a full-time job. It makes me sound bad because when I go back to my dietetic internship, I was mystery shopping. Like that was my, my sidekick. was like, be my boyfriend, husband at the time. Bridget Hannon Esteves: Yep, yep. Kristen Hicks-roof: we would go out and like get a Papa John's pizza and be a mystery shopper for all these different companies. And that's how I made my way through. So I commend you for being able to balance all of that versus what I was doing. Bridget Hannon Esteves: Thank you. ⁓ I know I look back down like, gosh, did I sleep? Did I eat? Did I take care of myself? But somehow it worked out. I'm grateful to have been able to do all of that at once. ⁓ But no, don't think that I would do it again. Kristen Hicks-roof: So let's talk about your position at Mars Knacking. What do you do? What does your day to day look like? And then how did you land that role? Like what was the jumping point to be able to get there? Bridget Hannon Esteves: Absolutely. So my role at Mars Snacking Now ⁓ is a really exciting blend of nutrition science, regulatory compliance, and then innovation. So I sit on our global team, meaning that I am not responsible for just the US market or just our Asian markets, but I get to have really a global view of the snacking landscape and interpret what I'm seeing in emerging nutrition science or even ⁓ consumer interest with what regulations might look like in the future and how is that going to impact ⁓ what Mars snacking looks like in a few years. So it's a lot of wishing I had a crystal ball ⁓ so I could more accurately give insight to our partner ⁓ or my co-workers but It's a lot of reading the scientific tea leaves and sitting in with different trade associations and ⁓ working with our different ⁓ innovation teams to understand what they're working on and then synthesize it all and try to drive the business ⁓ in a direction that we think is the right one. Kristen Hicks-roof: I how fun, love the term innovation because that's something that really drives me. It's where science almost meets curiosity and you create new product, right? So I do think that that sounds like a really fun position. So how did you land that position? Were you already at Mars snacking and then you got promoted or how did you go from where you were at to that role? Bridget Hannon Esteves: Right? And I can do it for candy. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I absolutely know. So this is my first role at Mars and this will be my fourth role in the industry. So I'll start at the very beginning. when I, like I said, when during my graduate program, I was interning for Abbott. Towards the end of my degree, I knew I wanted to go into industry and I had had the great opportunity to form a strong network within Abbott. So a position was open on their pediatric. Regulatory team so fresh out of graduate school. I joined their regulatory team. I was doing strict regulations so label reviews I was reviewing a lot of ⁓ What we call assets so ⁓ promotional material whether it be commercials or ⁓ Search engine optimization terms or or any ads you see when you know, you're maybe scrolling scrolling on your phone So doing a lot of compliance, which was great. It was a great first role in the industry. If any of your listeners are looking to get into the industry or make a change, think that regulatory is a fantastic first step because it's great for dietitians. It's very detail oriented. It's very type A, all of these things that we are so good at. And it doesn't, and this is just my experience from going to Abbott, it didn't require a lot of prior experience. I was straight out of graduate school. And yes, there was a steep learning curve, ⁓ but it was straightforward to pick up on. So it was a great first job to learn about the regulations around the food industry, which I didn't really have exposure to when I was in graduate school. So learning all of that firsthand has really set me up for ⁓ continued success in my career. regulatory compliance on its own was... ⁓ we talk about, you know, science and curiosity. I missed a little bit of that curiosity because for very good reason, ⁓ regulations are black and white and there is, you know, no deviation. So ⁓ I missed that scientific curiosity a little bit, but it was a fantastic foundation ⁓ for the rest of my career. So following my time at Abbott, ⁓ I went to Kraft Heinz. I was on their North America nutrition team for a little while and I was doing ⁓ Still some asset review, but more from the scientific lens now ⁓ and doing a lot of internal and external nutrition education on ⁓ what is the role of these different compounds that we want to maybe put into our foods or what's a reasonable target for reducing ⁓ some of those negatives that are currently in some of those products. So I worked really closely across the North America business to be that. nutrition science voice. ⁓ And that's really where I again was excited to have that RD credential because I was giving these recommendations not just from, you know, nutrition science PhD, but also, hey, I can understand how a consumer is going to interpret this or I can help, you know, my non-technical marketing colleagues understand why B vitamins ⁓ you know, are important and can support XYZ claims. So it was really such a great skill set to lean back on. like, ⁓ yes, I remember talking about this during my internship. Kristen Hicks-roof: That's awesome. it brings the question, okay, Bridget, we're gonna get authentic and open the box, open Pandora's box a little bit here. You hear a lot of chatter about why do dieticians work as part of the food industry? No matter what area, if you're all the way from agriculture to a product. So I think what you do is so pivotal to have a dietician on there, to have that subject matter expertise. Bridget Hannon Esteves: Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-roof: So what would you say to those who are listening, like, why does the industry, whether it's a food or pharma, such as like an Abbott, right, an oral nutrition supplement, why do think it's so powerful for dieticians to sit in those types of roles versus maybe just a PhD scientist? Bridget Hannon Esteves: So I think it goes to the reach that we can have working for industry. So for example, I have worked, I've worked for Abbott, I've worked for Kraft, I've worked for Glanbia, and I now work for Mars. So if you think about the number of people that eat those products that I have impacted, it's in the millions. And I'm not saying that to pat myself on the shoulder, but I'm saying it to the the broad reach of the food industry. these products, you know, all people are going to consume products from all of the companies that I just listed, whether or not there's a dietitian working there. And the role of the dietitian is to provide that nutrition sense check one within the room. ⁓ if I, like I said, I I give the example of talking to my marketing colleagues about B vitamins in a previous role. Without that nutrition voice, vitamins may have not been on the table or they may not have been included in the right ⁓ format to work in a product or they may have been included with another ingredient that may have a nutrient interaction that hadn't been thought of. we really, as dietitians, provide that unique perspective that you know, depending on the area of expertise that an individual had in their PhD, they might not get. And that's what I found so exciting about my dietetics training was that I got to step outside of my box of avocados and genetics and obesity to understand and experience the broad, broad world of nutrition. And I think that's what's so important in the food industry is that the people who are consuming these products are going to be from many different health statuses, ages, sexes, nutrition needs, and being able to apply that not universal knowledge of nutrition because dietetics is still very personalized, but I guess that broad knowledge and that applicable knowledge of the dietetics training I think is something that is ⁓ very unique to us RDS. Kristen Hicks-roof: give you an A plus on that response because I try and explain it all the time. But now instead of just going to clip what you said and hand it to people. No, but I think you're right. I think us as dietitians, we come with this lens of blending marketing and science and what consumers are looking for to say, hey, maybe we can call this out in marketing. Here's benefits of the products or here's how we can improve the product to create a better for you option because regardless of what food you're eating. Bridget Hannon Esteves: Ha ha! you Perfect. Kristen Hicks-roof: people eat food because it tastes good, right? And so how can it taste good while still offering nutritional value? And that is the role that we can continue to play. yeah, spot on on that one. let's talk about science, right? You're a scientist by training that's still very key into what you do. So walk us through a little bit. How does scientific evidence impact what you do in your day to day? Bridget Hannon Esteves: Absolutely. I think the first thing that comes to mind is claims. So anytime we want to make a claim about anything, and I will say ⁓ this, I'm speaking now not just to my time at Mars, but my time in the food industry and the supplement industry. directly prior to Mars, I was at Glambia Performance Nutrition, which is a sports supplement company. So products like that, there were tons of claims. ⁓ And so science was so much of my decision making, my thought process, my recommendations that I give to the business because anything that ultimately ends up on a label or in a commercial or an Instagram ad needs to be science based for the company's own protection. know, protection maybe is too strong of a word, but especially in Kristen Hicks-roof: Liability. Bridget Hannon Esteves: Liability, thank you. And especially in the United States where the majority of my experience has been so far, we live in a very litigious society or let's just, you let me edit that out. Hold on. Especially in the United States, we live in such litigious times that anything that is said on a package can potentially be challenged. And that's where we need to be making decisions. based in science, ⁓ so that if and when that statement is challenged, there can be a clear line of thought ⁓ grounded in science. Kristen Hicks-roof: Yeah, well, and I do think that's so important. Again, we need more dieticians to be in these regulatory roles. So that way, when there are claims being made, there's support back there. So whether it's a PhD nutrition scientist or a dietician, I think there's a lot of opportunities for us to be subject matter experts to go in and support, right? Bringing the culminating evidence to be able to support those claims because you're right. mean, There's lawsuits every day across the food and health industries. And so how are dieticians going to be able to provide that scientific backing for whatever that is? Because if you just leave that to marketing, they're going to take something and fly away with it, right? They're going to say something that they probably shouldn't say because that's a marketer. They're there to sell, they're there to promote. And so I think we can be that voice of sound science. to be able to say, okay, maybe we can say something like that, but how do you turn it back or how do you phrase it the correct ways that you're actually reflecting with what the science says and not just, you know, saying whatever you want to say in marketing. So I do think that is very important there. We've had a really successful career in terms of, you know, moving across, you know, food and like you had mentioned, would say pharmaceutical in terms of like Abbott, I kind of list them as pharmaceutical, although they are nutrition and food and then over into supplements. what's been your most favorite or what do feel like you've had the you're most proud of the impact that it's had? Bridget Hannon Esteves: Absolutely. And gosh, that's a tough one to say. ⁓ I will say I really had, I did really enjoy my time in the supplement space. I think what was so ⁓ exciting about being at Glanbia is that they have these big brands. know, we had Optum Nutrition, Isopur, BSN that are these, you know, huge brands with broad reach, but they're still I still felt like I was working on a small team. So I got to sit in the same room as our product developers and as our food science engineers and really get down to the nitty gritty of product development. And that was the first time that I had been able to work on a product from inception to Seegan on shelf. So I think my proudest moment in my career so far. has been ⁓ seeing that product that I helped to formulate ⁓ actually end up on a shelf. And I remember ⁓ going into a GNC when it launched and taking a bunch of pictures and posting them on LinkedIn and getting really excited about it. that ⁓ has been really exciting ⁓ to do. And I enjoyed my time in the supplements. I think where I am excited about this relatively new channel, ⁓ opportunity at Mars, I'm about six months into my role there, is exactly what you said about working with marketing. I adore my marketing colleagues and exactly that. Their job is to sell and to push the boundaries and ask, know, can I say this? Can I say this? Can I say this? And one thing that I love about being in this regulatory role is being a thought partner with them. You know, I'm not, it's not in my nature to just say, no, I'm always going to work with them and work with the science and work with my scientific communication skills honed from being a dietitian to help come up with alternatives and still attractive claims and messaging. So more to come as I continue to get my legs under me at Mars, but seeing that. the fruits of your labor actually on a shelf or on a screen are a really exciting point of working in industry. Kristen Hicks-roof: I mean, it is really exciting. I remember when I wrote my first children's book, my only children's book, my first, no, my only children's book, but it was really cool to see it from inception all the way to it being at one of my local, ⁓ you know, bookstores. And I just thought that was so cool to like have a product come all the way through. So I can only imagine like a business product. And I see that in two in my role of what I do. It's awesome to say, well, here's the science and here is how it comes up. Bridget Hannon Esteves: Only for now. Kristen Hicks-roof: in marketing. Here's how it comes on the shelf. And I liked with your new title, how you are involved in the innovation team. Like maybe you'll bring all your PhD wisdom of avocados and bring avocados into Mars snacking. I don't know how that's going to look, but I want to see it one day. Shout out to my good colleague, Nikki Ford over avocados. Cause I just love, I think there's such a superpower with avocados that I would love to see how do we be more innovative with that product. It's like the pistachios, right? Bridget Hannon Esteves: Yes, yes. Kristen Hicks-roof: I love pistachios. I remember growing up in my dad's truck and we would go through bags of pistachios and I'd have just like cups of shells. And then when they started coming out with Dubai chocolate, I'm like, that is genius, right? Like you take this, I know, I'm like, you take this flavor in this ingredient that you don't normally think about. And I think that's where, again, you have a science driven, but then you're also thinking what was new to the consumer? What are they like and how can you repurpose that into something new? Bridget Hannon Esteves: Why didn't I think of that? Kristen Hicks-roof: One day I would love an innovation title. I don't know what it would be, but like, I love that curiosity of how do we take science and bring it all the way to new products. Bridget Hannon Esteves: That's it. And that's what's so exciting about my role at Mars is that the innovation that I'm working on is there's a desire for it to be science-led. So, know, along with myself in scientific and regulatory affairs, I have colleagues in science and technology who are even more, you know, nose to the grindstone in terms of science and application. And so it's so... fun to be able to talk science and talk innovation and ⁓ talk about potential ⁓ in the room of brands like ⁓ that Mars has. ⁓ it's a really exciting job. ⁓ Gosh, about the avocado. So ⁓ the Haas Avocado Board did sponsor my dissertation project and I was working with a number of great researchers on that project. So, Naman Khan, Hannah Holcher, Caitlin Edwards were ⁓ all on that project too. And I remember I was submitting one of my final papers for publication and I said in there, ⁓ in the introduction I said, the avocado is a unique fruit. has ⁓ fiber, unsaturated fat, carotenoids. And the comment from the reviewer was, I don't think an avocado is a unique fruit. And I remember, getting that back and I'm like, gosh, how do I respond to that? And it was one of those cases where my advisor, Naman Khan, was like, just ignore it. It is a unique fruit. And so I agree, it's a unique fruit, it's a unique food. And I think Nikki Ford and her colleagues at the House Avocado Board have done a fantastic job of that type of science communication around this food. Kristen Hicks-roof: Thank Right. Well, and you have, it's all driven based on science, right? And I think that's where commodity boards and in industry are just pieces of the funding puzzles to be able to understand with randomized control trials, what the role of those food are in different health outcomes, right? Cardio metabolic health, think that's what you said that you were working on. And that way then you take that research and so you can more effectively talk about these products, right? Whether that is marketing or health professional education, there's a lot of opportunity, but Nikki Ford is a... Bridget Hannon Esteves: Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-roof: is a mentor of mine. actually during my PhD or no, not my PhD, during my academic time, when I was a faculty member, I got to work with Nikki Ford on a product, ⁓ on a project looking at different color fruits and vegetables and how that impacted diabetes outcomes from a secondary data analysis. And it was so cool because we used to hear all the time, eat the rainbow. And it was like, well, do you classify avocados as green or yellow? Right. Bridget Hannon Esteves: Very cool. ⁓ Kristen Hicks-roof: And you classify, right? A lot of different foods were like that. And so even as we were going through, we were like, wait, can you classify this as red if the skin is red, but let's say the interior is not red? Like there was so many different nuances in science that really came from that. And that's where I first met Nikki, who's a mentor of mine. ⁓ So really cool. So Bridget, what suggestions or tips would you have for someone who's interested in roles like yours? So think about. know, regulatory, scientific affairs, science communications, what tips would you give them? Bridget Hannon Esteves: Yeah, absolutely. think, like I said earlier, getting into the food industry, think regulatory is a great first step. Often, you know, I of course cannot speak for all the positions that are out there, but often there's not a ton of experience required. ⁓ And especially for registered dietitians, you have the ability to learn quickly. You have the attention to detail that's needed. You have that communication skill to translate ⁓ marketers desired speak to ⁓ substantiated claims and you have the ability to go the other way, translating ⁓ science into attractive claims. So I really think that that job in regulatory is a great first step. ⁓ And so I would also advise, don't be afraid to apply. I think sometimes we can maybe get in our own head of gosh, I'm not qualified for this position. They say one year, I don't have that. They say this, I don't have that. Apply. The worst they can do is say no, and then you're in the same position than you were before. ⁓ Another great tool that has helped me a lot in my career is LinkedIn, and that's social networking. ⁓ That's how I've gotten all of my subsequent jobs. Post Abbott was through, I saw a post on LinkedIn. I saw I had a connection and I messaged that person even if I didn't know them super well, say, hey, I saw this, can you talk to me more about the role? And being able to put yourself out there and be open, ⁓ I think is something that has helped me a lot. And for LinkedIn as well, I think that's such a great networking tool. Often what I did early in my career was I would look at people who had job titles that I thought were interesting, whether it be, head of nutrition or principal scientist or nutrition scientists and I would look at their background and if I was feeling really bold, I would add them and send them a message and say, hey, can we chat for 15 minutes and can you tell me about how you got where you are? And that's something that ⁓ was a great learning tool for me and one thing that I have tried to pay forward in my career. ⁓ So, ⁓ for your listeners, my DMs are open, ⁓ but it's such a great tool and it also gets you used to talking about yourself and talking about your experience, which is also such an important part of the networking process. Kristen Hicks-roof: When I think every social platform has their own unique purposes, I guess you could say, I also love LinkedIn. It's just a really great professional networking. And trust me, I get plenty of DMs, which is awesome. I love how people want to reach out. How did you find this career? And actually, you know, as I was thinking about starting a podcast well over a year ago, I couldn't figure out like what my niche was. And then it dawned on me and I was like, Bridget Hannon Esteves: ⁓ Kristen Hicks-roof: people always wanna know how did I get that role? What was my career? What tips did I advise? And I was like, what if we had this one stop shop, Nutrition Connection, that would build connections, but also be a storytelling adventure. So you could talk about your role that you had. And so that's what brought all this podcast concept together. And it's been so fun. And I know that people have reached out to me that they've listened to the episodes and they're like, wow. Thanks so much. Like I didn't know someone was at Mars snacking, right? And like, and how you had that role and how you got there. So I think there's an opportunity that you can definitely connect with anyone on our show. The connection information is in the show notes. You can always connect. Bridget's DMs are wide open, but you can also write, like build this, ⁓ meet them virtually, but then also find that one-on-one opportunity if you ever do an in-person, right? Because that in-person can really go such a long way to build rapport and understand each other on a deeper level to then open a future connection. So I think there's a lot of opportunity there. So really good advice, apply for jobs that you may not be qualified for because you never know the opportunity. You can also apply on LinkedIn. That's where I found my job at the National Work Board was also on LinkedIn. So I think there's good career opportunities on there. And then definitely reach out to people whose titles that you want to have or that you're interested in. as you are exploring careers. my favorite question we're going to end on here, Bridget, if you had a crystal ball, which you wish you had a crystal ball earlier and you still don't have one, but if you had one, what do you think is coming next in nutrition and maybe even in this like food landscape? What do you think's coming next? Bridget Hannon Esteves: One thing that I am seeing a lot of that really excites me is the push and interest and increasing knowledge around whole foods and whole diets. I am not gonna get into the politics of everything, but there is such a big interest now in whole foods and fiber maxing and. fruits and vegetables and I love to see that movement trending that way. I think that's something that ⁓ I see only growing in consumer interest ⁓ to eat more whole foods. Kristen Hicks-roof: Yeah, well, and it'll be interesting how the food industry adopts, right? Because the industry creates foods that people want, right? That's why they create foods. They want them, whether it's taste, price, a lot of different reasons why we create products for what we do. And so with the whole foods movement, maybe we'll see simpler products, right? With fewer ingredients or better for you type options. I don't think for a long time people really desired that they want to taste flavors, savory, sweet, whatever. And so now Bridget Hannon Esteves: Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-roof: It's a combination of the health sciences, meaning agriculture, meaning food industry to create more products that people want. And the only way you can do that is to have consumer demand, right? Because why would you create a product if no one wanted it? That would make no sense. No one would make any money. So I agree with you. I can't wait to see the momentum. And that's one of the things I like about the new dietary guidelines, albeit, right, you can have your own perspectives. I don't really care. I'm happy for whichever... perspective you have, but I love that emphasis on whole foods because it's a really easy takeaway. When I was a clinician, I would get so caught up in the weeds of they were like, well, can I eat this? Is this bad for me? Is this good for me? And it's like, what if we destigmatized all of that good and bad? And we just talked about pushing people in a direction of more wholesome foods. Like maybe that's a really easy strategy that people can grasp onto that they've never thought of that concept. Do you think the same? Bridget Hannon Esteves: Right, I completely agree. think there's always gonna be a demand for the products that the food industry can make because of taste, because of convenience, because of, and, and, ⁓ But agree, it's a simple message. It's one that I think dieticians have been talking about for decades of eat fruits and vegetables, eat whole foods, and one that... ⁓ I don't think any nutrition scientists or dietician ⁓ could argue with the statement of eat whole foods. So I think that's, I agree with you. ⁓ I'm excited to see the momentum for it. ⁓ I definitely am a dietician of all foods fit. ⁓ But if we can give the public messages that can be easily understood and then of course more easily Kristen Hicks-roof: Yeah. Bridget Hannon Esteves: I don't see anything wrong with that. Kristen Hicks-roof: Yeah, I hope the food industry does not take away my favorite products. I love candy, I love ice cream, I love chips. All these foods fit as part of my dietary pattern, right? I don't eat any food isolation. In fact, the other, last night, I just came back with six pints of Ben & Jerry's ice cream and my kids were like, yes, it was like the Super Bowl, right? At dinner last night. Bridget Hannon Esteves: Ugh. Kristen Hicks-roof: And I was like, and both my daughter, well, to my older two daughters, they were like, mom, we've never seen these flavors. And I was like, I know we get to experience all these like, culinary fusion of flavors, right? And that's what I love exposing my kids, whether it's cooking fresh food in the kitchen or a package, you know, sweet, it's about them expanding their palette and learning what food is and how it tastes good and how it fits this part of Dellenstein. So I Bridget Hannon Esteves: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-roof: I think there is a balance and a way that all foods fit. I'm right there aligned with you there. So Bridget, thank you so much for coming on the show. And if you liked the show, make sure you like, subscribe, leave a review. But most importantly, check out the next episode because every episode I bring out a new dietitian and nutrition experts to tell their story and give you tips and advice for how to find that position. So thanks again, Bridget.