Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #668 Kaylene Henderson - No Nonsense Tenderness

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#668 Kaylene Henderson - No Nonsense Tenderness · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
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  Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
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  Speaker 2: once answers.
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  Speaker 1: Now it's the Happy Family's summer series for our Happy
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  Speaker 1: Families podcast. Tell her. This is doctor Justin Coulson. A
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  Speaker 1: couple of years ago now, we did our very first
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  Speaker 1: ever summit. It was really popular, made a huge difference
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  Speaker 1: for any parent who's dealing with sleepless nights, teething troubles,
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  Speaker 1: children with big emotions, food, fussy eating, all that sort
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  Speaker 1: of stuff. It was called the Little People, Big Feelings Summit.
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Kayleen Henderson, one of Australia's most appreciated and wonderful
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  Speaker 1: child and adolescent psychiatrists, joined me for a fabulous conversation
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  Speaker 1: as part of the Little People, Big Feelings Summit, and
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  Speaker 1: I asked her, Kaylen, what do babies and young children
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  Speaker 1: need from us?
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  Speaker 2: I actually think we're really lucky because I think we're
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  Speaker 2: actually the first generation of parents who've had access to
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  Speaker 2: this information, to this research based information that's very easily
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  Speaker 2: practically translated. The wonderful term I heard when I was
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  Speaker 2: training years ago in a parenting program that I love
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  Speaker 2: called Circle of Security, which is a relationship focused program,
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  Speaker 2: is this phrase of no nonsense tenderness, where the ideal
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  Speaker 2: stance for a parent is to be the no nonsense
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  Speaker 2: limits setter.
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  Speaker 3: They are in charge.
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  Speaker 2: They are absolutely you know, the rock who can guide
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  Speaker 2: the child in terms of learning what's safe and what's
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  Speaker 2: dangerous in the world, and guide them in terms of
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  Speaker 2: developing socially appropriate behaviors and setting limits in that context,
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  Speaker 2: which is really important for our children. They need to
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  Speaker 2: know that we're in charge, not them, because you know,
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  Speaker 2: that's terrifying if they think they're in charge.
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  Speaker 1: Because anything right, that's right, that's right.
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  Speaker 3: That's right.
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  Speaker 2: But it equally refers to the fact that children need
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  Speaker 2: us to be tender, to be kind to ultimately to
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  Speaker 2: be their go to person when they're having a tough time,
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  Speaker 2: and getting that balance right of no nonsense tenderness is
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  Speaker 2: really something that I've kept in mind with my own children,
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  Speaker 2: and I think if you hold on to nothing else
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  Speaker 2: that keeping that kind of balance stance in mind, if
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  Speaker 2: what you're.
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  Speaker 3: Doing fits with that, then you're probably on the right track.
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  Speaker 2: But there are, as you say, there's lots of you know,
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  Speaker 2: practical suggestions that stem from that and stem from the
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  Speaker 2: research that add more detail to that in terms of
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  Speaker 2: developing a secure attachment relationship. Children need to be watched
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  Speaker 2: over as they challenge themselves.
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  Speaker 3: Is they take risks, that's really important. They need how
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  Speaker 3: to they need to.
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  Speaker 2: Practice risk taking in the world. They also need to
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  Speaker 2: be helped sometimes. You know, there's lots of things that
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  Speaker 2: little ones will need help with, and that's sometimes one
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  Speaker 2: that we can You mentioned the.
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  Speaker 3: Sweet spot before.
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  Speaker 2: That's often when or it's tricky to find the sweet spot.
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  Speaker 2: How much help do we give our children. We can
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  Speaker 2: sometimes err on the side of too little or too much,
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  Speaker 2: but children actually need just enough help for them to
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  Speaker 2: be able to do things by themselves. That's how they
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  Speaker 2: become more independent, more capable, more get that sense of
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  Speaker 2: competence that we want for them going forwards as they
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  Speaker 2: get older. They also need to be able to come
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  Speaker 2: to us when they're having a tough time, when they
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  Speaker 2: need comfort. Because, as I'm sure our conversation will steer
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  Speaker 2: towards knowing what a popular topic it is for parents,
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  Speaker 2: children haven't young children haven't yet learned how to calm
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  Speaker 2: themselves down from big feeling states.
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  Speaker 3: So that is absolutely something that we need to be
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  Speaker 3: able to.
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  Speaker 2: Provide our children in order to develop a secure attachment
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  Speaker 2: for them to be both their secure base from which
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  Speaker 2: they go and explore and learn in the world, but
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  Speaker 2: also their safe haven to whom they return when things
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  Speaker 2: aren't going quite so well.
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  Speaker 3: Children also need to be delighted in. Now, this is
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  Speaker 3: really interesting. I love this one.
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  Speaker 2: The delight is communicated Nonverbally's the way your eyes light up,
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  Speaker 2: your face lights up, and your body turns towards someone
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  Speaker 2: when you're with them, And it communicates undelighted that you exist.
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  Speaker 3: You haven't had to do anything, say anything, You just exist.
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  Speaker 3: And I'm delighted about it.
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  Speaker 2: And amazingly, the research tells us that babies who've been
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  Speaker 2: shown more delight, So when babies are delighted in that
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  Speaker 2: zero to one age group, it actually promotes brain development,
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  Speaker 2: which I think is magical that the way you hold
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  Speaker 2: yourself can promote the brain of another human being. And
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  Speaker 2: it also tells us that those babies who've been shown
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  Speaker 2: more delight grow into more cooperative two year olds, which
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  Speaker 2: is a cracking incentive in my opinion. And interestingly, no
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  Speaker 2: matter what age your child is, when kids are delighted
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  Speaker 2: in by you, because you, as a parent, hands down
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  Speaker 2: the most important person in the universe to your little
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  Speaker 2: human When you demonstrate to your child that you're delighted
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  Speaker 2: that they exist, and this happens for them repeatedly, they
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  Speaker 2: develop an internalized sense that they must be an inherently good, worthwhile, lovable,
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  Speaker 2: valuable human being. And that's really important for our children.
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  Speaker 3: And the research backs that up.
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  Speaker 2: The research tells us that that's how we foster a
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  Speaker 2: really healthy self esteem in our kids.
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  Speaker 3: It's really simple stuff.
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  Speaker 2: It's stuff that doesn't take extra time, doesn't take any
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  Speaker 2: extra money. It's just ways that we can interact with
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  Speaker 2: our children that really do make such a big difference
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  Speaker 2: in our children's outcomes.
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  Speaker 3: And you know, and ultimately at the end of the day,
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  Speaker 3: we all are delighted that our kids exist.
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  Speaker 2: It's just sometimes that either might not be in our
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  Speaker 2: kind of experience of how your parent or you know,
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  Speaker 2: it might get.
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  Speaker 3: Lost in the busyness of life.
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  Speaker 2: But you know, they're all simple things that we can
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  Speaker 2: do to really set that wonderful, healthy foundation for our children,
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  Speaker 2: which very much ties in with the research.
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  Speaker 1: Okayleen, the conversation for the rest of our time together
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  Speaker 1: is going to go like this. Number one, We're going
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  Speaker 1: to talk about each of those needs in just a
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  Speaker 1: little more detail, and get really practical about how we
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  Speaker 1: get the balance of helping or not helping just right,
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  Speaker 1: or how we delight more, or how we how we
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  Speaker 1: get that no nonsense tenderness happening. We're going to get
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  Speaker 1: really specific about that. I want to spend just a
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  Speaker 1: moment with you, though, just on delight, because as soon
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  Speaker 1: as you said it, my whole everything lit up. I
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  Speaker 1: just thought, oh, yes, this is my favorite, and I'm
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  Speaker 1: going to be a little bit on bibiographical for just
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  Speaker 1: a sec purely because this was I'd been I'd written
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  Speaker 1: parenting books, I'd been talking to parents for several years
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  Speaker 1: before I actually came across this particular research in this
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  Speaker 1: this concept. And it occurred to me that my children,
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  Speaker 1: when they encountered me, even as the expert, they didn't
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  Speaker 1: see a father who delighted in these six daughters. They
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  Speaker 1: saw a dad who was stressed and busy and overworked
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  Speaker 1: and was never home and was so busy trying to
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  Speaker 1: make everyone else's family happy that he couldn't make his
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  Speaker 1: own family happy. They didn't see a dad who took
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  Speaker 1: delight in them. And when I came across this idea,
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  Speaker 1: I just thought, I've got to make it start now.
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  Speaker 1: Every time my children enter the room now and for
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  Speaker 1: the last several years, four or five years now, I've
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  Speaker 1: made sure that my face shows them that I'm delighted
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  Speaker 1: to see them. And just the other day I had
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  Speaker 1: an experience with my seventeen year old daughter. She was
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  Speaker 1: telling me about a little bit of a boyfriend problem
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  Speaker 1: that she's having. I know we're talking about little people
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  Speaker 1: and big feelings, but this was a big person with
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  Speaker 1: a big feeling. I looked at her as she had
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  Speaker 1: these tears in her eyes, and I said, oh, Ella,
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  Speaker 1: you are just such an incredible kid. I'm just crazy
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  Speaker 1: about who you are. She looked at me and started
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  Speaker 1: crying and said, Dad, I just wish that everybody could see.
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  Speaker 3: Me the way that you see me absolvely.
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  Speaker 1: And I thought, this is but we don't just want
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  Speaker 1: it for our seventeen year olds. We want it for
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  Speaker 1: our newborns. And it's kind of easier then until at
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  Speaker 1: three o'clock in the morning and they still haven't slept,
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  Speaker 1: or our two year olds until they decide that they
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  Speaker 1: don't want the peanut butter toast chopped into triangles. They
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  Speaker 1: want it in rectangles, or our four year old when
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  Speaker 1: they decide that they've had enough of their little sister
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  Speaker 1: who's two, and they're now going to start throwing blocks
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  Speaker 1: at their head. And so I'm really curious about how
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  Speaker 1: we bring these needs together, how we couple or decouple
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  Speaker 1: delighting in our children while still having no nonsense tenderness. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: what's the secret. Well, let's do them one at a time.
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  Speaker 1: First of all, how do we delight in our children?
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  Speaker 1: What are the most practical things that we can do.
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  Speaker 3: I think there's a couple of things.
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  Speaker 2: There's a couple of things you've brought up there which
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  Speaker 2: come to mind. The first is that it's really important
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  Speaker 2: not just to be seen to in enjoy your kids
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  Speaker 2: when they've done the right thing, when they're behaving well,
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  Speaker 2: or you know, as they get older, when they score
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  Speaker 2: well on a test, or when they make the footy team,
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  Speaker 2: whatever it might be. It's really important that we don't
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  Speaker 2: just enjoy our children when they've accomplished something, because otherwise
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  Speaker 2: our kids grow up with this externalized sense of worth
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  Speaker 2: that sees them through to adulthood, that always makes them
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  Speaker 2: feel like they need to have scored well on that test,
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  Speaker 2: or they need to have got that job promotion, or
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  Speaker 2: they need to toe the line and be obedient because
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  Speaker 2: otherwise they're worth nothing. That's really important for our children
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  Speaker 2: to build that internalized sense, ideally from early on. But
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  Speaker 2: as your story beautifully demonstrated, from whenever you learn this
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  Speaker 2: you know it truly is never too late. The other
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  Speaker 2: thing your story highlighted for me is the importance for
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  Speaker 2: parents to know that you don't have to get this
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  Speaker 2: right all of the time. No parent in the history
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  Speaker 2: of parents has ever been delighted to see their kid
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  Speaker 2: by their bedside at three am.
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  Speaker 3: It's not a thing. It's never happened. It's not a
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  Speaker 3: delightful moment.
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  Speaker 2: But thankfully those you know, it's not about getting it
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  Speaker 2: right one hundred percent of the time. It's about delighting
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  Speaker 2: in our kids often enough that there's a pattern and
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  Speaker 2: that that pattern is felt by our children. So that's
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  Speaker 2: not about you know, those moments you describe, they're not delightful,
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  Speaker 2: and those in those cases, maybe the scales swing more
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  Speaker 2: towards the no nonsense and less towards the tenderness. That's okay,
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  Speaker 2: because we need to be both, and sometimes that's about
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  Speaker 2: being firm and setting limits. We still love our kids,
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  Speaker 2: but we might not have loved what they did. And
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  Speaker 2: you know, and they're not moments for delight. But picking
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  Speaker 2: your child up from childcare is not a moment to
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  Speaker 2: be looking at your phone.
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  Speaker 3: It's a time to be delighting in your child.
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  Speaker 2: When your child comes running at you to tell you
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  Speaker 2: a funny story or tell you about some amazing looking
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  Speaker 2: bird they've just spotted, that's a moment for delight. When
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  Speaker 2: you look out across the room and your child's playing independently,
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  Speaker 2: but they're just looking back just to make sure you're watching,
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  Speaker 2: that you're still keeping an eye out for them, keeping
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  Speaker 2: them safe. That's a moment that we can just smile
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  Speaker 2: at our little people and give them a little thumbs up.
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  Speaker 2: Whatever it might be, it's those little moments, often enough,
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  Speaker 2: that make the difference, not about being one hundred percent delightful,
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  Speaker 2: because that's not practical for.
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  Speaker 3: Any of us.
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  Speaker 1: That was doctor Kayleen Henderson from the Little People, Big
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  Speaker 1: Feelings Summit. If you'd like to know more about that summit,
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  Speaker 1: you can find it in the Happy Family's shop at
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  Speaker 1: Happy families dot com dot a u. Kaylen shares so
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  Speaker 1: much wisdom and so to do a whole lot of
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  Speaker 1: other people, including Maggie Debt, doctor Shfi, and the list
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  Speaker 1: goes on and on about ten eleven experts who have
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  Speaker 1: given us great ideas for how to deal with little
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  Speaker 1: kids and they're really big feelings. It was a great,
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  Speaker 1: great summit, so please check it out if you're dealing
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  Speaker 1: with little kids and big feelings and you'd like to
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  Speaker 1: know what to do. Happy fan onlies dot com dot au.
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  Speaker 1: More tomorrow with Kylie and I as we continue the
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  Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast summer series