Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / Ep. 241 ~ NO EVIDENCE! W/ Gil Jesus

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Ep. 241 ~ NO EVIDENCE! W/ Gil Jesus · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:13
  Everything is going to hell down here in Dacta. And don't come with my
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  dad, who would take back back, And don't call with my Chad here.
• 0:35
  Showstids will rip me. And I'm calling my Jazz who would take back
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  brow. Then don't come with my dad here, yourstids will ripley. What's
• 1:04
  off to everybody? That's right? It's me, It's me. It's the
• 1:07
  Triple B, Big Bad Bobe otherwise known as Rob Clark, here with you
• 1:11
  today and I've got another fantastic show for you. This is episode two forty
• 1:18
  one of the Loon gum And podcast and returning to the show a fan favorite,
• 1:26
  my buddy Gil Jesus will be back on a show. But before we
• 1:32
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  off of your entire order. You won't regret it. Thank me later piece
• 3:14
  and we're back. Please join me and welcoming back to the show, mister
• 3:20
  Gil. Jesus, what's up, Gil? How's it going? Buddy good?
• 3:27
  How are you doing? Thanks for having me fantastic? Yeah, Um,
• 3:30
  good to have you back. I got a lot of good response from
• 3:35
  the last time you were on the show. People love it, so I
• 3:38
  wanted to have you back on I saw your post in the ed forum.
• 3:42
  You know concerning no evidence, and I thought it would be a good a
• 3:46
  good thing to talk about. I thought it would make a really good show
• 3:51
  to go over some of this stuff. Um and of course, you know
• 3:54
  we, me and you, we kind of believe that there was a conspiracy
• 3:59
  involved in and all of this at some point. And you know, these
• 4:02
  loan others, they like it comes to some of the evidence and h and
• 4:09
  some of the points that they liked to cherry pick to throw at you.
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  And I thought, you're I thought your list here was was a very very
• 4:16
  good one because it's hard to argue with a lot of this stuff. Um
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  So what what s firmed you to kind of make this list and kind of
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  go through a lot of these points. Well, I just, uh,
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  I just wanted to tell you the truth. I just wanted to piss them
• 4:34
  off because uh they were always singing me once in a while. And I
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  figured, you know what I'm gonna put I'm gonna put together a list of
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  stuff that there is absolutely no evidence of and stuff that I think. I
• 4:48
  also added some stuff that, uh there was no chain of possession. They
• 4:54
  were never able to establish a chain of possession, and uh so I made
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  up this and let me go through a few of the things and if you
• 5:02
  can stop me at any time, and I just want to give out this
• 5:05
  list and what it was. The first thing is that there was no evidence,
• 5:10
  no evidence that Oswald took a thirty eight inch package to work on the
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  morning of November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. Now, the package that
• 5:17
  they supposedly found on the sixth floor, which was not in any of the
• 5:21
  crime scene photographs, was thirty eight inches long. The rifle broken down was
• 5:28
  thirty four point eight inches long, So it could have broken down, it
• 5:31
  could have fitten that package, and that's kind of what the Warrant Commission said
• 5:34
  happened. But for that to happen, Oswald would have had to have brought
• 5:39
  a thirty eight inch package to work that day. Now, the only two
• 5:42
  people that claimed that he brought a package to work that day described the package
• 5:46
  that was way small, way smaller than thirty eight inches. It was,
• 5:49
  in fact, anyways from twenty four to twenty seven inches long. I think
• 5:55
  the highest that went was twenty eight and a half. I think Lenny may
• 5:58
  Randall in her testimony said that it was measured, that they measured her fingers.
• 6:02
  She kind of like made with her fingers how big it was, and
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  there was twenty eight inches twenty eight and a half inches, um, So
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  there was no evidence that he ever brought a thirty eight inch package to work
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  in the morning on that morning. None. If they if he brought a
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  package, it wasn't it certainly wasn't the rifle. The second thing is to
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  go ahead. I was just gonna say, I think bel Frasier always said
• 6:28
  that he always felt that there was any about two feet long maybe and maybe
• 6:31
  a little longer than two feet like right, Well, what he did was
• 6:36
  he gave an estimation of two feet to the FBI. But when the FBI
• 6:41
  went to his car and they measured it in the back seat, he said
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  it was from here to hear, And when they measured that, it came
• 6:46
  out to twenty seven inches. Uh so even that, it's just still way
• 6:50
  too small. I mean, uh yeah. His sister said it was twenty
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  seven and then she said in her testimony it was twenty eight and a half,
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  So it was is it still it was way too small to ever couldn't
• 7:02
  contain a rifle. So if he if he brought yeah, yeah, And
• 7:08
  so some people don't believe he think the whole curtain rodd story was a fake
• 7:13
  anyways, that they made the whole thing up. But even if he did
• 7:15
  bring a package to work that morning, it was not the rifle. It
• 7:17
  definitely was not the rifle. And I'm going to get into a little later
• 7:21
  the real reason why he went to Irving on the twenty first, on Thursday
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  to twenty first, It wasn't to get his rifle. And I'll explain that
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  later on, because that is really blockbuster stuff when you start to get into
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  the testimony of Marina Oswald and what she and Ruth Payne knew what was going
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  on. But he never brought a thirty eight inch package. There's no evidence
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  that he ever brought a thirty eight inch package to work, and as a
• 7:46
  matter of fact, that the two witnesses that saw the package could not identify
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  that thirty eight inch package is the one he brought. So there's not only
• 7:55
  you get the two witnesses that say he brought a package, but that's not
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  the one. Okay, So no, absolutely no evidence he took a thirty
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  eight inch package to work that morning. Now there's no evidence also that he
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  brought that thirty eight inch package into the building because Jack Dorety was inside the
• 8:15
  building when he came through the back door. And at first in this testimony,
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  he said he didn't see he didn't see anything in his hands. He
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  you know, as far as he knows, there was nothing in his hands.
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  But finally they kept harassing him, trying to get him to say that
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  there was something, And finally he said they asked him and they said,
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  are you positive? Are you positively sure that there was nothing in his hands?
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  And he said there was nothing. So he's saying, he saw oswell
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  come through the door. I there was nothing in his hands. So if
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  he did bring a package, did he leave it outside or you know,
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  who knows, But this guy's saying nothing came in the building, and he
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  didn't bring anything in the building. And it certainly wasn't thirty eight inches,
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  because if it was thirty eight inches, he could never have carried it the
• 8:58
  way Fraser said. He carried it the zomb pit and cupped in his hand.
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  Now take a yard stick. If you think I'm lying, take a
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  yard stick and stick it under your armpit and cup your hand on the other
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  end, and see how far down you measure. Now I tried it myself
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  and I measured twenty two and a half inches. Twenty two and a half
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  inches. It means even if it was two feet long, it would be
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  very difficult for me to carry it that way. I'd have to be like
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  hunching. Yeah, you'd have to knuckles would have to be dragging on the
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  ground. Yeah, just about really right. I mean, it's just ridiculous
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  to think that he could carry a thirty eight inch package like that. No,
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  absolutely not. The next thing is that there's no evidence that Oswald constructed
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  the thirty eight inch paper gun sack. They said he was never near the
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  shipping room. But yet the gunsack had to be made in the shipping room
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  because they used the tape dispenser. The tape on the on the gun sack
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  had mockings from the tape dispenser on it, and it had you know way
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  they tear it off and everything, the teeth that tear it off and when
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  you cut it. I mean it had to be it had to have gone
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  through the FBI that examined it and said it went through that tape dispenser.
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  So Oswald was never did the paper match as well? That the only paper,
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  the only paper and tape that that paper and tape on the bag matched
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  was the paper and tape that was on the shipping room table on the afternoon
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  and in November twenty second. Now that tells me that the cops were the
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  ones that made this bag, not Oswald. The cops were the one.
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  I know what. I was seeing that picture where they're taking that bag out
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  out of the TSBD and it looks, hey, it looks huge, and
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  it looks like they're carrying a flag. Yeah, but you know, it
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  looks relatively fairly recently constructed, you know what I mean, Like it's it
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  looks newer, right, I would think it would be more wrinkled up and
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  beat up, you know, if he's wrapped wrapping in a round a rifle.
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  Now, the argument they have against to argue that Oswald constructed the bag
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  is that, well, his palm print and his fingerprint were found on the
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  bag, but it was the heel of the right hand the palm the heel
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  of the right hand near the pinky that was found on one end of the
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  bag, and the left index finger on the other end of the bag.
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  Now I can explain how that happened. I can give you an alternative explanation
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  of why that happened. Oh, how that happened? Yeah, because because
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  there's no way that Oswald could construct that bag using the heel of one hand
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  and the finger of another. He would add a held a lot more fingerprints
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  on that bag had he constructed it. Okay, So this is what I
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  think happened. I think during his during his interrogation, which was not taped,
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  was not there was no transcribe done of it, transcription done of it.
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  I think what happened is the cops slid the bag across the table,
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  and he stopped it with the heel of his right hand as it slid across
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  the bad and I asked, what are about this bag? You carry the
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  rifle? And he stopped it as it slid across the table. He put
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  his finger on the other end of it and slid it back to him and
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  said, I've never seen this bag before in my life. So there is
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  an explanation of how the heel of one hand got on the bag and the
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  finger of the other hand and no other fingerprints. Okay, there isn't nextlay
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  even though that's speculation, that's just my opinion, Okay. But their argument
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  that his palm print and his fingerprint were on the bag. Doesn't hold it
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  for me. It doesn't hold water because there's no way you could construct the
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  bag that way, and there's no way you could carry the bag that way.
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  You'd have to carry the bag out in front of you, thirty eight
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  inches long. You'd have to carry it out in front of you, and
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  your arms would almost be at the very end of how far you could stretch
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  your arms to carry it like that. Yeah, and that was a long
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  walk from where Frasier parked that morning. I don't think I don't think anybody
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  would have walked like that all the way over there. Yeah, and Frasier
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  and you know when Frasier when he was walking into the building, they make
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  it look like Frasier saw him go in the building. Fraser saw him at
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  the door, but he was distracted because he was watching the guys on the
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  railroad tracks switching tracks, switching uh the train switching tracks, So he was
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  distracted. He didn't see everything. If you look at his test, if
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  we can that's if we can believe Frasier on a lot of this stuff,
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  because a lot of his co workers um said that he parked that morning over
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  there and Oswald wasn't in the car that whole uh you know, hey,
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  where's your rider thing? And Frasier said, I dropped him off at the
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  building because apparently Edward Shields was out there. I think it was don't remember
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  his junior darmin or Charles Gibbons. He yelled at him a lot of them
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  fun. They both said that Oswald wasn't in the car that morning with Frasier
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  when he parked. A lot of what Frasier says, you got to take
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  with a with a grain of salt because he was under drest. They had
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  they had his he had an English made an end Field three oh three that
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  they had taken. They had they had tried to get Frasier going to his
• 14:16
  testimony. They'd tried to get him to admit that he was involved in the
• 14:20
  conspiracy to kill the president. And I mean, there's a guy that all
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  he did was give Oswald the right to work, and they're trying to get
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  him to They put a confession in front of him and he read it and
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  he said, I'm not signing this, and Fritz was pissed. And it
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  was just him and Fritz in the room, and according to him, I
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  don't know if this is true, but he told Fritz. You know,
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  Fritz brought his hand back like it was going to hit him, and he
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  said, you hit me. And they were gonna have I know this,
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  cops outside that door, but we're gonna have one hell of a fight before
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  you before they get in here. And it was I'm gonna, I'm gonna,
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  I'm gonna hitch your back. You know. Fraser's nineteen years old.
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  And another thing I'm going to explain later is he was kind of a nosy
• 14:58
  kid. He had to know everything, you know what I mean. He
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  wanted to know why Oswald was going home on Thursday. He wanted to know
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  why Oswald wasn't riding with him on the weekend before on a Friday, and
• 15:07
  Frasier was very nosy. You had to know everything. So I'll get into
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  that later because when I when I get into the real reason why he went
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  to Irving, I'm going to try to explain all of that. Yeah.
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  But anyways, the next thing that there was no evidence of I have on
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  my list is that the gun sack ever contained the rifle. When the FBI
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  examined the gun sack on the inside, they looked at the inside of it.
• 15:31
  It never had any scratches or any mockings on it at all from a
• 15:35
  rifle. And what was his name, Cadigan, John Cadogan, I think
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  it was that said that he examined the bag and the bag had He said
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  there were no mockings from this rifle or any other rifle on here. So
• 15:54
  again I'm saying there's a reason for that. The reason is that the cops
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  made the bag on the afternoon of the sation, and that's why there's no
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  mockings from any rifle in it, because they never had a rifle in it.
• 16:04
  Now, yeah, you would think it would have like, you know,
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  rub marks on the inside of the bag as well, you know,
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  and the bag was two inches too shot to carry the rifle. See,
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  let me tell you what I think happened. I think they made the rifle.
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  I mean, they made the bag for the thirty six inch rifle.
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  They thought they had a thirty six inch rifle, but they didn't. They
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  had a forty inch rifle. They never measured it. They never used the
• 16:30
  rifle to measure the paper when they made in the paper when they made the
• 16:33
  bag, ordered a thirty six inch rifle, but they sent him the forty
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  inch right. Yeah, well, this is what everybody thinks. But I
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  don't believe that the rifle was ordered in March. I don't believe the rifle
• 16:45
  was ordered until August or September. And that all of that, all of
• 16:49
  that match paperwork from clients and everything, that's all that's bullshit. I don't
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  know if I can say that, but that's that's what that's what you can
• 16:57
  say that that. I think that's all faked. I think that was all
• 17:02
  made after the fact. I think that because the only place that Oswald could
• 17:07
  receive a rifle under the alias of a Hiddel was in New Orleans. That
• 17:11
  was the only post office box application that had the name A Hiddel on it.
• 17:18
  That's the only place a Hiddel could have ever received a rifle. So
• 17:22
  that means that that rifle was ordered sometime between the time that post office box
• 17:26
  was opened June eleventh and September twenty six, when he finally closed it.
• 17:32
  Sometime in that period, and I'm thinking August September, because I think they
• 17:36
  came across these conspirators. This began in New Orleans and it spread to Dallas,
• 17:41
  they were all connected. And when they saw the A. Hiddel name
• 17:47
  that he was using for the fair play for Cuba, when he was ending
• 17:49
  out the leaflets and everything in New Orleans, that's when they got the idea
• 17:55
  to order the rifle under that alias. So I think it was in the
• 17:57
  August September time frame. But anyway, because when he moved, when he
• 18:02
  moved to New Orleans, nobody ever saw the rifle he was they his landlady
• 18:10
  in New Orleans never saw the rifle. Her husband never saw the rifle.
• 18:14
  They watched him unload the car, Ruth Payne's car. When the car went
• 18:17
  back in September to Ruth Payne's house, Michael Payne unloaded the car. He
• 18:22
  never said anything about any rifles, seeing any rifle or any package. Ruth
• 18:26
  Payne said, was asked, have you ever seen a rifle or any package
• 18:29
  that length? She said no, she didn't even know he had a rifle.
• 18:33
  So yeah, So I think that this rifle was ordered, and this
• 18:37
  would be interesting to do research on. I think the rifle was ordered from
• 18:42
  two box two nine one five in Dallas. There's no doubt in my mind
• 18:45
  that by when it got to Dallas they held it, they held a rifle.
• 18:49
  But I don't think it was ordered in March. I think it was
• 18:52
  ordered in August September. And don't forget that this information was going through my
• 19:00
  New Orleans and Dallas were sharing information on Oswald. They were sharing information on
• 19:07
  Oswald, especially through the post office box. They were trying to keep track
• 19:10
  of him. The FBI was trying to keep track of him through the US
• 19:11
  Postal Service. So they were trying to That's what they were trying to do,
• 19:15
  and that's why he I'm glad and I had on myself. I'll explain
• 19:22
  that later. Okay. So there's no evidence that the gunsack ever contained the
• 19:26
  rifle, no evidence that Oswald knew in advanced that the motorcaid would pass in
• 19:30
  front of his place of work. He asked James Johnman, what are all
• 19:33
  those people lining up out there for? You know, about ninety thirty ten
• 19:37
  o'clock in the morning of the morning of the assassination. What all those people
• 19:41
  doing out there? He says, Oh, the President's coming by. He
• 19:44
  says, which way do you think he's going to be coming? And John
• 19:47
  and says, well, he's probably going to come down. He's looking at
• 19:48
  the way people are lining up on the side of the street. He's probably
• 19:52
  gonna come down Main Street, then down Houston and down on elmwal says,
• 19:56
  oh that's it. Huh okay, well there was it. So how how
• 20:00
  the hell does he go and get a rifle on Thursday when he doesn't even
• 20:03
  know the President's coming through the in front of his building till Friday morning after
• 20:07
  he's at work. It's ridiculous that this whole story is ridiculous. So there's
• 20:14
  no evidence that he ever knew in advance that they assumed that he did.
• 20:18
  They assumed that he got the Modicaid root out in the newspaper, but there's
• 20:22
  no evidence of that. You know. They always try to say that Oswald
• 20:26
  was vorciously reading the newspaper every day and lunch it were yeah, yeah,
• 20:32
  but this is what it's all speculation. They don't know if he read the
• 20:36
  paper, and they said he always read the paper the day after because it
• 20:40
  was left in the Domino room anyways, So no evidence he knew an advance
• 20:45
  that the Modicaid would pass in front of his place of work. There's no
• 20:48
  evidence that he was on the sixth floor at the time. Of the shooting.
• 20:51
  Nobody can put him up there at the time of the shooting. Now
• 20:53
  he was seen there at eleven fifty five in the southeast corner with the clipboard.
• 20:57
  He's walking around with a clip would well, yeah, he's filling orders.
• 21:02
  And come to find out, when you when you take a look at
• 21:06
  the pictures of the Sniper's nest, you see that Scots Foreman books that he
• 21:11
  was working on. He was working on that order for Scots Forman Publishers.
• 21:15
  Their books were part of that wall of cottons that made up the sniper's nest.
• 21:23
  So he was in there for a reason. He's doing the cottons for
• 21:29
  the books that he's looking for are there. Of course he's going to be
• 21:32
  in that area. And his fingerprints are found on the cottons, Does that
• 21:36
  mean he pulled the trigger? No, of course not. It means he
• 21:38
  touched those cottons at some point. But they make this thought too, Gill.
• 21:45
  You know that that floor laying through was up there working on the sixth
• 21:48
  floor that day. Yeah, And if they're replacing, you know, some
• 21:52
  firewood on the floors, you know you've got to clear out the floor.
• 21:56
  Means you're gonna stack you know, all that shit up around the edges,
• 22:00
  you know, near the windows, and the cottons are not going to be
• 22:03
  with a normally, they're going to be all over the place. So you
• 22:06
  got to go all over the place to try to find what you're looking for,
• 22:10
  right exactly. Yeah, So there's no evidence that he was on the
• 22:14
  sixth floor. Now, I don't care about Howard Brennan. Howard Brennan is
• 22:18
  just he was quite a witness, you know what I mean. He saw
• 22:22
  Oswald in the sixth floor, but he was wearing different clothes. He didn't
• 22:25
  say anything at the at the at the lineup because he was afraid for himself
• 22:32
  and his family. If he identified Oswald, Well, why why would you
• 22:36
  feel that way? Unless you saw more than one personal you thought he had
• 22:38
  conte federates who was still at lodge, Why would you feel that You're you're
• 22:44
  saying Oswald did it is going to be a danger to you. Why why
• 22:48
  would that be? I mean, it doesn't make any sense. And then
• 22:51
  after Oswald is dead, you don't have to fear anymore. What do you
• 22:53
  think it's co conspiracist died with him. I mean, I can see you
• 22:57
  know if you saw said that Oswald was there, and there were other people
• 23:02
  out there, and they said, you know, you don't keep your mouth
• 23:03
  shut, We're coming after you. But after Oswald's dead, all of a
• 23:07
  sudden, what you grow a pair of balls? And all of a sudden,
• 23:10
  what do you think that is? Co conspirators died with him, and
• 23:14
  all of a sudden, you're not worried about your family anymore. It's a
• 23:15
  bunch of balogney. Such a lot of people. Did see two two people
• 23:19
  on the test floor, Yes, there were people, There were two guys
• 23:23
  on the sixth floor, and uh and yeah, yeah, and there was
• 23:30
  there was somebody else too. I forget her name now, I'd have to
• 23:33
  look it up, but uh, yeah, they saw two people up there,
• 23:37
  and they described them, and they described their clothing, and they thought
• 23:40
  they were security people. They didn't say anything to anybody because they thought there
• 23:44
  were secret service or security people that were, you know, watching the buildings
• 23:48
  and watching the crowds, and little did they know. Yeah, So anyways,
• 23:53
  there's no evidence that Oswald ever picked up the rifle at the Dallas Post
• 23:57
  Office. Now, circular reasoning says, well, gee, the rifle was
• 24:03
  his, you know, he had to pick it up. But that's there's
• 24:07
  no evidence of that. Who in the Dallas Post Office gave him the rifle?
• 24:11
  They never ever showed that. They never proven that. There's no evidence
• 24:15
  that he ever picked it up. How do you know somebody else and pick
• 24:18
  it up and give it to him, or pick it up and use it
• 24:21
  for themselves. How do you know that it was even in there? There's
• 24:23
  no receipt. They never produced any receipt, you know, like they're supposed
• 24:26
  to put a note in the in the box for Oswald to let him know
• 24:32
  the day you're got to package the game. I can't fit in the box.
• 24:34
  I mean, you're telling me that nobody in that Dallas Post office,
• 24:38
  nobody could remember giving the rifle, the most famous rifle in history to the
• 24:45
  most famous assassin. Nobody could remember that to six months later. Come on,
• 24:52
  thanks their sense at all. No, it doesn't. And so there's
• 24:56
  no evidence that he ever picked up the rifle at the post office. And
• 25:00
  the same thing with the handgun. There's no evidence that he ever picked up
• 25:02
  the handgun at the Ria Express Office. The same same thing now with the
• 25:10
  documentation with the handgun. What I find interesting is that there's no charges for
• 25:15
  shipping on any of these documents, I find that interest the charge of a
• 25:19
  dollar twenty seven, but there's no there's no evidence of any charge for shipping.
• 25:27
  What did they ship the handgun for free? There should have been something
• 25:33
  there. The handgun was, the price of it was twenty nine ninety five
• 25:37
  he put down, He gave it ten dollars, ten dollars he sent them
• 25:42
  to me. Kind of strange that he made a money or her out for
• 25:45
  the rifle but sent cash for the handgun. But anyways, different m O.
• 25:48
  But okay, So let's say he did send it. That means he
• 25:52
  left it. He left a remainder of nineteen ninety five and with the one
• 25:57
  twenty seven one twenty seven cood charge that come out to twenty one twenty two.
• 26:06
  But none of the documentation shows anything about shipping charges, and the shipping
• 26:11
  charges were collect which means the ordering the item was the one that was supposed
• 26:19
  to pay for the for the shipping charges. So how come would they ship
• 26:26
  it for free? Well, I can't get that. So there's no evidence
• 26:30
  that he ever picked up the handgun, and there's no evidence that even was
• 26:33
  charged for shipping. So I don't I don't get this. It's just that
• 26:37
  it makes me laugh in a way. No evidence a little bit, and
• 26:41
  they waved the fee. You know who knows. Yeah, maybe he knew
• 26:45
  somebody. He knew somebody, and they said, you know, I'll deliver
• 26:49
  it for free. No evidence that Oswald pulled the trigger in hand and the
• 26:56
  handgun must misfired in the Texas theater. When the FBI examined the gun,
• 27:00
  they fired that handgun over two hundred times, never misfired. And they took
• 27:04
  a look at the so called a shell that was a cartridge that was in
• 27:11
  the gun that it misfired on, and they found that it was not made
• 27:15
  by the primer of the handgun. Now, so that means that that mock
• 27:19
  on that shell was man made to create this image of Oswald being a lone,
• 27:26
  a crazed cop killer who was going to shoot another cop in the in
• 27:30
  the Texas theater. And the FBI said that this mock was not made by
• 27:37
  the firing pin of the handgun. It was off center. For one thing,
• 27:41
  it couldn't couldn't have been It couldn't have been made by that firing pin
• 27:47
  because the firing pin would have hit hit the primer, not maybe not on
• 27:51
  center, but a little bit off. But this mock was completely completely off.
• 27:56
  I mean it was on the primer and off the primer. It was
• 27:59
  man made. So the cops made the mock to create this image of Oswell
• 28:04
  trying to kill a cop in the theater. Very all of this stuff is
• 28:10
  just there's no evidence of this, no evidence that the bullets that killed Office
• 28:14
  the tippet came from the handgun, and evidence they couldn't They could never identify
• 28:18
  the bullets. Now their argument is, well, the shelves found at the
• 28:22
  scene, and I laugh at about this because the shells at the scene is
• 28:30
  you can't kill somebody with a shell. Okay. Now, the bullets of
• 28:37
  the thing, the bullets that came from Office a tippet could not be matched
• 28:42
  to each other. And when they test fired, they test fired that handgun,
• 28:47
  they couldn't be matched to the test bullets. Okay, So those bullets,
• 28:52
  the bullets were different every time they fired this handgun. So they said
• 28:56
  that because of that, these bullets came from that handgun, it was likely
• 29:02
  that these bullets came from that handgun. I'm sitting there laughing because I'm reading
• 29:07
  this testimony and I'm laughing, because if they were all the same, you
• 29:11
  could say they came from that that handgun to the exclusion of all other weapons.
• 29:18
  But the fact that they're all different means that that came from that handgun
• 29:21
  to the exclusion of all others. I mean, it's ridiculous that didn't os
• 29:26
  wont to have like matching bullets in his pocket that they supposedly found later.
• 29:33
  Yeah, and you know, and you know what he was. He was
• 29:37
  searched twice before they found those bullets and both and his pockets were empty.
• 29:41
  But they all looked like they were the same bullets, Like, they didn't
• 29:45
  look like they were a mixture of different brands, you know what I mean.
• 29:48
  Yeah, well they said that there was two different types, but I'm
• 29:52
  not I'd have to I'd have to look bad look that up. Yeah,
• 29:55
  they all to me, they all looked the same visually. But another thing
• 30:00
  that stood out to me too, is it looked like on those bullets,
• 30:03
  Um, they were kind of worn down a little bit where it looked like
• 30:07
  they've been in like a gun, a gun belt, gun belt, or
• 30:11
  either a a gun belt or a what do they call that a bullet slide.
• 30:18
  Yeah, it's not really a gun belt. It's just a small piece
• 30:22
  of leather where you put the bullets in and it goes on your belt.
• 30:26
  U. And you know who carries those police officers? Yeah, police officers
• 30:30
  carry them. And they had the corrosion on the shell pot of it where
• 30:34
  they where the leather, the little leather loops where you put the bullet in
• 30:38
  because they had been in there for so long. And here's another thing that's
• 30:41
  interesting too. I don't know if I've I mentioned this on the last show,
• 30:45
  but they recovered eleven bullets eleven thirty eight bullets from office A tippet after
• 30:52
  he was pronounced dead. He had eleven thirty eight shells cartridges, not shells,
• 30:57
  cartridges, unfired rounds on his person. And you know how many they
• 31:03
  took off they claimed to have taken off Oswald eleven? How was that six
• 31:07
  that we're in the b the handgun that they claimed with the handgun was loaded
• 31:11
  and five more that they claimed they found in his pocket. Isn't that interesting
• 31:15
  that they they that they took thirty h cartridges from office A tippet after he
• 31:22
  was dead. They recovered and they took covered his badge, They recovered his
• 31:26
  handgun that you know, the police looked certain things, but they took eleven
• 31:30
  cartridges that were unfired from office a tippet and they found the same amount of
• 31:34
  cartridges on Oswald or in his gun. Isn't that interesting? But then interesting?
• 31:41
  But you know when people argue about the shells being found at the scene,
• 31:45
  I'd ask the first thing I asked him is the witnesses who found those
• 31:49
  shells, were they able to identify those shells as the shells they found?
• 31:53
  No, they could not. They could not identify those shells, those particularly
• 32:00
  the shells as the shells they found. You know why because they were never
• 32:02
  mocked. The witnesses were never told to mock the shells so that they could
• 32:08
  identify them in court. That's what you do when you have a witness that
• 32:13
  to identify the shells, you have to mock them. That way, you
• 32:17
  show them the shell is it's a shell, and you look for your mock
• 32:20
  out. Yeah that's a shell. I mocked it right there. That's the
• 32:22
  same shell, all right. Those witnesses were never required to mock the shells
• 32:28
  that they found them, those shells. They chain of possession begins with the
• 32:30
  Jet Dallas police. I always heard that. You know, the cops had
• 32:36
  to mark the shells. Yeah, but yeah, it would make sense that
• 32:38
  the witnesses should mark. Well, it depends on it depends on who finds
• 32:43
  it. If the cops find the evidence, then yeah they should, they
• 32:45
  should mock it. But if the witness, someone who's not a police officer,
• 32:50
  finds the evidence, that police officers should make sure that that witness mocks
• 32:53
  that evidence for later identification in court. Don't forget that one. All this
• 32:59
  evidence was being fund Oswald was still alive. Somebody was going to go to
• 33:04
  court for this, unless they were planning to kill whether they caught. Somebody
• 33:07
  was going to go to court for this, and they had to be able
• 33:10
  to identify this. The other thing is the three shells on the sixth floor.
• 33:15
  Those three shells, they never established a chain of possession. The guy
• 33:19
  who found them was a deputy sheriff named Luke Mooney. He's the one who
• 33:22
  found the three shells. But he never mocked them. And when he testified
• 33:24
  before the warrant commission, they never asked him. They never showed him the
• 33:28
  three shells and asked him to identify those three shells because they know he couldn't,
• 33:32
  so they avoided doing that. Now, Lieutenant Day came there, Fritz
• 33:37
  came there, and he didn't mock him. He picked them up, and
• 33:39
  I don't know why he picked them up, but he picked them up and
• 33:44
  put him back down. Detective Richard Sims picked up those same three shells on
• 33:49
  the sixth floor and helped Lieutenant Day. He put them on top of a
• 33:52
  box, and a Lieutenant Day dusted him for fingerprints. They couldn't find any
• 33:55
  fingerprints on him, so neither one of them mocked them. Then they put
• 34:01
  it in an envelope, and they don't seal the envelope, and so later
• 34:07
  on that evening, around nine nine thirty in the evening, Fritz tells Dougherty
• 34:14
  Detective Dougherty to take the shells to Lieutenant Day to have them dusted. Why
• 34:19
  would he have them dusted if he already dusted them at the crime scene and
• 34:22
  there were no fingerprints on them, Why would he dust them a second time
• 34:25
  at ten o'clock at night? Because they're not because they're because they're not the
• 34:30
  same shells. That's why. That's why they're not the same shells that when
• 34:37
  he got the envelope, it still wasn't sealed when he got it at nine
• 34:40
  o'clock at night. So all of that time from two from one twenty when
• 34:45
  the shells were found at one eleven, I think it was when they were
• 34:47
  found from all at that time until ten o'clock at night, those shells were
• 34:52
  in an envelope, and an envelope wasn't sealed. You can tell them me
• 34:55
  that they couldn't have substituted the shells they found on the sixth floor. I
• 35:00
  think they were too also um in some guy's death drawer or laying on his
• 35:07
  desk or something like that. One of them was in uh. I think
• 35:09
  one of them Fritz Cape kept. You let the FBI have the other two,
• 35:14
  but there was you're talking about. What you're thinking of is that the
• 35:17
  shells from the Tippet murder. I believe the shells from the Tippet murder.
• 35:22
  Uh, one of them was withheld. They only sent three. I believe
• 35:27
  they sent three to the FBI, and the FBI sent him a letter we
• 35:30
  wanted back. We want that fourth one back, you know, we want
• 35:32
  to look at that fourth one. But get this now, with the three
• 35:37
  shells that currently are in evidence, they were never mocked. They were mocked
• 35:42
  by Lieutenant Day at ten o'clock at night before you turned that those shelves over
• 35:46
  to Vincent Rain and the FBI and his captain, Captain Daugherty, George Dougherty
• 35:53
  UH also initially supposedly initially those those UH shells. So when Day goes before
• 36:00
  the Warren Commission to testify, they show him the three shells. One of
• 36:04
  the shells doesn't have his mock on it CE five four three, the one
• 36:08
  with the dentist lip that doesn't have his mock on it. So he tells
• 36:13
  them, well, that's the one that doesn't have the mock on it,
• 36:15
  by mock on it. On June eighth, nineteen sixty four, they take
• 36:21
  the three shells and send them back to Dallas and George, Captain George Dougherty
• 36:27
  and Lieutenant J. C. Day have a chance to look at them with
• 36:30
  a microscope in a good light and low and behold, all the mockings are
• 36:37
  there. Isn't that interesting? Isn't that interesting? Yeah? They didn't.
• 36:42
  They didn't have the mockings before in Washington. They didn't. I guess they
• 36:45
  didn't have any light there that was good enough or a magnifying glass he could
• 36:47
  look at. So they shipped, they cut these shells all the way back
• 36:52
  to Dallas and low and behold, after the cops look at him, there's
• 36:57
  their mocks. You know. They didn't find any fingerprints on it. They
• 37:02
  didn't find any pomp print on the rifle until it came back to Dallas.
• 37:07
  Then it came back to Dallas and all of a sudden, now, oh
• 37:09
  they got a pom print. Yeah, you know. And you know,
• 37:13
  when you're talking about a criminal case, a criminal investigation, all of the
• 37:17
  evidence matches, all the evidence, the evidence all supports each other. In
• 37:22
  this case, every single piece of evidence is questionable. Just the way they
• 37:28
  handled it. Every single piece of evidence is questionable. How can that be?
• 37:31
  There's got to be something that's right, But every single piece of evidence
• 37:36
  there this revision, it was this, and then it was this. Oh
• 37:39
  it was a white jacket they found under the car. Oh no, it
• 37:42
  was a tan grayish tan jacket. Or it was the thirty eight automatic shelves
• 37:45
  they found. Oh no, no, no, they were thirty eight specials.
• 37:49
  You know. It was a seven point six five miles. Oh no,
• 37:52
  it was a six point five Italian cobbing every time they find It's like,
• 37:59
  what did these people? A bunch of idiots. They can't they can't.
• 38:02
  They can't read. They can't read on the bottom of a shell.
• 38:06
  They can't read the mockings on a rifle. The first thing you do when
• 38:10
  you find a weapon is to try to identify it by its mockings. You
• 38:15
  don't make a wild guest or seven point six five Mausa. They said,
• 38:19
  well, it had a Mauser, had a Mauser action on it. That's
• 38:22
  why he thought it was a Mausa. Why did he pick seven point six
• 38:25
  five? Why not seven point nine two or seven point six three or one
• 38:30
  of the other Mauser calibers. Why seven point six five? I mean,
• 38:37
  why they pick that out of thin air? I mean it's ridiculous. Yeah,
• 38:42
  And just for the record, I would like to retract my statement on
• 38:46
  the last show I did about Mauser never stamping their name and caliber on the
• 38:52
  barrel of their rifles. I'm wrong. I have been showing the light.
• 38:59
  I've seen the picture of a stamp right on the barrel seven six five Mauser.
• 39:06
  I've seen it. Yeah, and they did. They did do it.
• 39:08
  So Roger Craig, you know, can't just be pulling that out of
• 39:14
  thin air. They you know, there is you know that they did stamp
• 39:17
  their barrels on certain rifles like that. So yeah, So here's uh another
• 39:25
  thing that let me go on to the next one, that there's no evidence
• 39:29
  that the Commission Exhibit five seven three, the bullet fragment allegedly removed from General
• 39:34
  Walker's home, was fired from the C two seven six six rifle. They
• 39:38
  it was two mangled and it did not contain the same individual characteristics as the
• 39:47
  test bullets fired from the C two seven six rifle, So that bullet was
• 39:52
  not fired from that rifle. Yeah, that's one of my favorite documents to
• 39:58
  throw up in the lone nuggers face. Yeah, when they say it was
• 40:01
  Oswald shot at Walker, no is right here. There was one witness,
• 40:08
  Walter Kirk Coleman, who was fourteen years old, and the FBI, the
• 40:15
  FBI um went to interviewed him and from where they say he was standing when
• 40:22
  he heard the shot to where he got to the fence, it was fourteen
• 40:27
  feet from where he was in the house to the fence. So they claimed
• 40:35
  they timed him to see and they told him to move as fast as he
• 40:37
  did that night. They timed him two seconds. It took him to get
• 40:42
  to that fence two seconds. Okay, Rob, There's no way in hell
• 40:47
  Oswald or anyone else could have taken that shot and been completely out of sight
• 40:52
  in just two seconds. There's no way. Yeah. Not that they were
• 40:58
  firing right from right there. Yeah. Yeah, there's no way they could
• 41:00
  have been out of completely out of sight in two seconds. So that means
• 41:06
  that one of those two guys in that pocket lot that he saw fired that
• 41:08
  shot. He was the guy with the fifty eight Chevy or the guy with
• 41:14
  the forty nine or fifty whatever, it was a Ford, but one of
• 41:17
  those two guys fired that shot. Even General Walker like I think it was
• 41:23
  the Church Committee, it was the House Select Committee on Assassinations. He went
• 41:28
  freaking nuts with him. He wrote, the same bullet is not the same
• 41:34
  bullet. That bullet's been substituted, he said, He said it just like
• 41:37
  that in the letter. He said it just like that, even had his
• 41:40
  lawyers and the notes, because he had never been shown the bullet when he
• 41:45
  testified to the Warrant Commission. They never showed him the bullet and asked him
• 41:49
  to identify it Now, General Walker was a guy that uh, you know,
• 41:52
  he he was no slouch when it came to ammunition. He was a
• 41:55
  he was a career military man and a decorated one at that. He he
• 42:00
  knew his ship, you know what I mean. So, so for him
• 42:04
  to say that's not the same bullet, and then you have the report saying
• 42:07
  that the bullet that was fired was a steel jacketed bullet, not a not
• 42:12
  a coppet jacketed bullet, was a steel jacketed bullet. So now you have
• 42:15
  Walker confirming that police report and he's he's he goes and he goes nuts.
• 42:22
  He says that this is a fist. He still thought Oswald fired it,
• 42:24
  but he said, that's not the bullet. That's not the bullet that they
• 42:28
  reached that they retrieved because I saw that bullet. That's not the same bullet.
• 42:34
  So I mean, the whole that whole thing that This is why I
• 42:37
  think they fudged the paperwork back to March for the sale of the rifle,
• 42:40
  was to try to prove that he fired at Walker. But the evidence is
• 42:45
  weak. The evidence is really weak, and especially when you have Walkers uh
• 42:52
  that Robert Surrey is a former aide saying that he saw suspicious people hanging around
• 42:58
  Walker's house just day before the shooting. So I mean it's weak. It's
• 43:02
  weak that Oswald fired that shot. Yeah, okay. No evidence that Oswald
• 43:08
  had any moss animosity towards the president, and no evidence that he ever planned
• 43:14
  the assassination in advance. He realized how much planning this would have taken for
• 43:19
  him. He almost got away with it. If he had gotten on a
• 43:22
  bus or a taxi, he would have been home free. It's ridiculous.
• 43:30
  You're gonna tell him. An airplane would have been going. Yeah, you're
• 43:34
  get telling me. The guy shot the cop and then turn around, takes
• 43:37
  off running with the gun still in his hand. He throws his jacket under
• 43:40
  the not the not the gun. He throws the jacket under a car and
• 43:45
  keeps the gun the only evidence that ties him to the shooting of the police
• 43:50
  officer. It takes off and acts to go down the busiest street east Jefferson
• 43:57
  was crawling with cops and he goes down there. He could have jumped on
• 44:00
  a bus there with three buses that went by there, and had amount of
• 44:04
  time that he was out there, he could have jumped on a bus.
• 44:07
  He could have held a cab. He had thirteen dollars and eighty seven cents
• 44:10
  on this person. You could have used that as far as he could go,
• 44:14
  you know. But nope, he's gonna he's gonna act suspicious. He's
• 44:17
  gonna stick into a shoe store and then try to beat the Texas Theater out
• 44:22
  of a ninety cent ticket, even though he's got thirteen dollars and eighty seven
• 44:27
  cents in his pocket. I mean, it's ridiculous. The whole story's ridiculous.
• 44:30
  It's nothing but a fairy. I never I never understood that either.
• 44:35
  You know, you got Julia Postal and everybody's seeing pictures of the Texas Theater.
• 44:38
  There's a glass like booth that the ticket taker you know, sits in
• 44:45
  where you pay for a ticket to get into the theater. And she's standing
• 44:51
  him right there beside the door. But she doesn't see ols won't sneak in,
• 44:57
  I mean someone. And she even said that when Johnny Brewer got to
• 45:01
  her, he said, did you know did you did? You did?
• 45:05
  Did you see that guy that was standing over there? And what guy?
• 45:07
  She says, what guy? He says, oh, she went, but
• 45:10
  he must have went by. You must have been standing there, Gilts.
• 45:14
  She must have been standing there doing her nails, filling her nails or something,
• 45:16
  not paying attention. You know. Well, if if if Brewer thinks
• 45:20
  that the guy went by her, why did he change his mind and think
• 45:23
  that he went in the theater? Great? You know, I mean,
• 45:29
  uh, I think I think he saw he didn't see anybody. I think
• 45:32
  somebody else saw her. I saw the person. I questioned whether or not
• 45:37
  that person because there were there are people out there that are set off by
• 45:44
  sirens and stuff, and there was sirens all over the place. The cups
• 45:46
  were all over the place, and uh, I just think that they were
• 45:51
  he was this person was reacting to the sirens. Once the sirens went by
• 45:54
  and they went away, he came back out from the from the lobby of
• 45:58
  the shoe store, and somebody thought that looks vicious. But I think he
• 46:01
  bought the ticket, and I think that he went inside to watch the movie.
• 46:07
  No. Yeah, when Brewer went in there, he was only taught.
• 46:14
  He was told that the guy was wearing a brown shirt. He didn't
• 46:19
  see the guy, so when he when the turn of lights on, he
• 46:22
  saw Oswald with the brown shirt and assumed that Oswald was the guy, so
• 46:25
  he pointed Oswald out. Now, the Commission says that Brua saw Oswald pull
• 46:30
  the handgun from his waistband. Now, when you look at Brewer's testimony,
• 46:36
  they asked him, did you see where the gun came from? And he
• 46:37
  said no. So the Commission's report wide they said that Brewer. And they
• 46:44
  also lied about Dougherty. When Dougherty said he saw Oswald come through the back
• 46:46
  door and he didn't of the warehouse and he didn't have anything in his hand,
• 46:50
  they lied. They said Doherty wasn't sure that that he saw something.
• 46:57
  So the Commission lied in his report more than once. And you know the
• 47:00
  thing is, if you lie once in the report, the whole reporter is
• 47:06
  gobbage. You can't believe any of it. How do you how do you
• 47:07
  do that? If you lied about one thing, how do we know you
• 47:09
  didn't lie about something else? Yeah, and where's the witness list from the
• 47:14
  patients they were in the theater? I mean, I think I only knew
• 47:16
  of there's there's another thing. Well, you know, they they got had
• 47:21
  like maybe three or four witnesses that they that they had information from. But
• 47:24
  there was like h twelve or fifteen people in that theater. What happened to
• 47:30
  the rest of them? What did they see? Did they see the cops
• 47:31
  plant the gun on Oswald? Is that why Oswald threw a punch at the
• 47:36
  cop because he was sticking his hand in his pants. I mean, you
• 47:38
  know, uh, Oswald didn't pull the gun right away, according to the
• 47:44
  cops. They even said he didn't pull it, stayed there for a while,
• 47:45
  and then he went to take it out, and that's when they jumped
• 47:49
  him. I think the one witness in the theater said that they you know,
• 47:53
  they got Oswald out of the seat, and then one of the cops
• 47:58
  hit him in the back with a shotgun, the butt of a shotgun,
• 48:00
  and that's that's when Okay, yeah, that's when he supposedly started to kind
• 48:06
  of pull his gun out. Yeah, and uh so there's no evidence that
• 48:14
  that he ever pulled the trigger on that handgun in the theater. That that
• 48:17
  was just a superman Nick McDonald go of his hand. Yeah, between it
• 48:22
  between his index finger and his thumb, that little webbing there he got that
• 48:27
  in between the hammer and the hammer came down full force on it, and
• 48:30
  you know what he wasn't even hurt. I bet that would hurt like a
• 48:34
  son of a bitch. Oh you kid me. Yeah, you would have
• 48:36
  had to go to the hospital. You would have had it all bandaged up
• 48:38
  and everything else. He never even want to be treated. It's amazing,
• 48:44
  Yeah, it's amazing. Yep. Now, if the hammer had been made
• 48:47
  of kryptonite, that might have been a different story. Well there's no let's
• 48:53
  go let's think a look at some of the corroborating evidence. There's no corroborating
• 48:57
  evidence for Marina's account that Oswald had to write full in the wallens in the
• 49:00
  summer of nineteen sixty three. That's an allegation. An allegation is something that
• 49:05
  hasn't been proven. Corroborating evidence is evidence, witness evidence that supports either it's
• 49:12
  either supported by the physical evidence or it's supported by other witnesses. Now,
• 49:17
  the lone nutters, they don't do. You have fifty nine witnesses that say
• 49:22
  that limousine slowed down or stopped on Elm Street when the shooting started, and
• 49:24
  those lone runners still don't believe those fifty nine witnesses. But if one person
• 49:30
  says that Oswald was wearing his shirt on the bus. Some old lady who
• 49:35
  says that Oswald was wearing a shirt on the bus, but she had a
• 49:37
  stroke and she couldn't even she couldn't even see his face. She said his
• 49:42
  face was distorted. She couldn't identify him. All right, Yeah, yeah,
• 49:47
  the Mary Blood saw that. But she's the only one that saw that
• 49:50
  shirt. But dog on it. They'll believe her. Yeah, you can
• 49:53
  see that tiny hole in the elbow. Yeah, oh boy, unbelievable.
• 50:01
  There's no chain of possession establishing that CE three ninety nine was a bullet found
• 50:06
  on the stretcher at Parkland Hospital. How's that CE three ninety nine. They
• 50:12
  never established the chain of position because op Wright, Um, Daryl Tomlinson,
• 50:19
  h Richard Johnson has a secret service, so he gave the bullet too,
• 50:22
  and his boss James Rodley. None of them ever identified that CE three ninety
• 50:27
  nine is the bullet They handled that bullets. Chain of possession begins with Elma
• 50:31
  Todd of the FBI. That didn't Thomas to say the bullet he found,
• 50:37
  would had appointed No, it was not a rounded nose. Yeah, yeah,
• 50:42
  yeah, I think I read that. I think that might have been
• 50:45
  in Harry Hurt's book. No wonder he never They never asked him to identify
• 50:50
  that bullet. Yeah, he would have said, no, that's not the
• 50:52
  same one I found. Yeah, they went back and they asked them if
• 50:55
  that was the bullet they found. They could not identify it. They never
• 50:59
  mocked it. They can't identify it. So, how come this bullet doesn't
• 51:05
  have any blood on it when the FBI got it? How come this bullet
• 51:07
  doesn't have any bone particles or clothing fibers and went through like something twelve or
• 51:13
  thirteen layers of clothing supposedly through two men and didn't have any clothing fibers on
• 51:19
  it. Maybe the clothing wiped all the blood and guts. It could be,
• 51:23
  It could be. It could be. This is to call the fibers
• 51:28
  off the bullet. Yeah, there's no. There's no chain of possession establishing
• 51:32
  that the thirty eight shells and evidence are the same shells found that the by
• 51:36
  witnesses at the tip of murder singe because they never they never mocked them,
• 51:40
  and they were when they were asked to identify those shells, they couldn't identify
• 51:44
  them. The thing, the point about this chain of possession is how do
• 51:47
  you know this evidence wasn't substituted. If you don't have the people that find
• 51:53
  the evidence able to identify it as the evidence they found, then you're leaving
• 51:59
  yourself all open for substitution. You can do whatever you want. There's no
• 52:04
  change. Both know if this, if this case would have ever went to
• 52:07
  court, any lawyer WHEREUS assault would have destroyed this age. Oh, absolutely
• 52:15
  absolutely, And that we haven't even talked about yet Oswald's uh constitutional rights being
• 52:22
  violated. That that that they could that they actually committed crimes. Because when
• 52:29
  he was when he was arraigned for the tip At murder, he had no
• 52:34
  lawyer. He was by Texas law, the judge was required to assign to
• 52:39
  him a lawyer, whether he wanted one or not, the judge was required
• 52:45
  by Texas law. Now, when he went on the midnight you remember the
• 52:50
  midnight press conference where he's talking to the press and he says, I went
• 52:52
  to this hearing, this short and sweet hearing, where I protested that I
• 52:58
  was not allowed legal representation. I was questioned by a judge and I was
• 53:02
  I said that I was not allowed legal representation. Now, at that point,
• 53:07
  the judge was obligated under Texas law to a point a lawyer, and
• 53:12
  he didn't do that. So what did they do? When they asked the
• 53:15
  judge was a Justice of the Peace, also, David Johnston, they asked
• 53:20
  him. They asked all the police officers who were there when Oswald was arraigned
• 53:24
  for Tippet's murder if Oswald said anything during that arraignment, and not one of
• 53:30
  them, not one of them could remember what Oswald said. Isn't that something
• 53:35
  The judge said something that you know, he said something, but I don't
• 53:37
  remember what it was. I can't remember. He said, sorry, you're
• 53:42
  screed, you're not getting a lawyer? Yeah. Yeah, Can you imagine?
• 53:45
  You know when I was, when I was in my very younger days,
• 53:49
  I was watching the Watergate hearings, remember when they were on TV.
• 53:52
  The Watergate hearings were on TV. And I'm watching all of these politicians and
• 53:57
  government officials, and every time they don't want to tell the truth, but
• 54:02
  they don't want to get caught in a lie. It's because they testify an
• 54:07
  under oath. They say the same thing. I can't remember. I don't
• 54:09
  remember. You know, people can't prove that you can remember. If you
• 54:15
  can't remember, you can't remember. And that's what they That's what these guys
• 54:17
  did. That was this story. You can't remember. Gee, he said
• 54:20
  something, but I don't know what it was. I don't remember, you
• 54:24
  know. I mean, this doesn't happen in a criminal investigation, especially an
• 54:30
  investigation that's that is as important as this, the assassination of the President of
• 54:35
  the United States. This doesn't go on like this. There's something else going
• 54:38
  on behind the scenes, you know what I mean. You can't help but
• 54:43
  be suspicious when you see them acting like this. This is just you know,
• 54:49
  Oh, they had their man, and that was Lyndon Johnson called Jay
• 54:53
  Jay. Will Fritzon said, you got your man. Investigations over. That's
• 54:58
  it, period. So now you're going to take a round pag and try
• 55:01
  to ram it in a square hole. That's what That's what you got,
• 55:07
  okay. But there was no chain of possession ever establishing that that C.
• 55:10
  Three ninety nine was a bullet found on a stretch of Pocland Hospital. And
• 55:14
  you know something else I want to say about this. This Warring Commission accepted
• 55:17
  as exhibits things that had not been proven, you know, in other words,
• 55:25
  like this, you would have to prove the chain of possession. In
• 55:29
  a normal criminal murder, you'd have to prove the chain of possession first before
• 55:35
  you can admit the exhibit, admit the evidence as an exhibit. You prove
• 55:40
  this first. This you know, this bottle had the murderer's fingerprints on it,
• 55:46
  yourn, I'd like to I like to enter this into evidence as states
• 55:52
  exhibit one. And the judge says, okay, because it's got the prints
• 55:58
  on it. It's already been it's already been established by the expert that the
• 56:00
  prince were the prince of the defendant. Okay, but you have to prove
• 56:05
  the evidence before before you were entered as exhibit. These guys entered things that
• 56:13
  were exhibits that weren't even evidence and weren't even proven. They're trying to pay
• 56:19
  after the fact. Yeah, yeah, the chain of possession was never established,
• 56:22
  and they were they were entering the stuff as evidence. It's it's amazing
• 56:27
  what they did. No chain of possession, establishing that the thirty eight chills
• 56:31
  and evidence were the same, shows found that the murder scene already said that
• 56:36
  there is no chain of possession, Establishing that the Tannish Gray jacket and evidence
• 56:40
  is the same white jacket found under the car and a pocket lot about a
• 56:44
  block from the Tippa murder. There's no chain of possession. Somebody found that
• 56:49
  jacket, who found it, well, the Commission said that Captain Westbrook found
• 56:52
  it. W Westbrook founded. Westbrook wasn't anywhere near that jacket when it was
• 56:58
  found. It was poured it over the police radio by Unit two seventy nine.
• 57:04
  I forget I had his name too, but I forget who it was
• 57:07
  it was. I think it was a motorcycle officer who radioed in that they
• 57:10
  had found the jacket. The jacket was found by a policeman, but that
• 57:16
  policeman's name was never They never said who it was, and he never mocked
• 57:22
  the jacket. The first mocking on the jacket. If you look at the
• 57:25
  jacket the Tannis, the grayst Tan jacket in evidence, the first mocking on
• 57:30
  it belongs to Westbrook. But the guy who found it was never mocked it,
• 57:36
  so that there's no chain of possession on that. How do you know
• 57:39
  that's the same jacket. How do you know they didn't find the white jackets?
• 57:45
  Things with that jacket in particular being oh my goodness, I think Marina
• 57:49
  said Oswald didn't even own a jacket like that. He definitely didn't wear that
• 57:52
  jacket to work that day, and it had had mockings on it from a
• 57:58
  cleaners. He never had his was dry cleaned. She washed his clothes for
• 58:01
  him. She testified that she washed his clothes. She never saw any dry
• 58:05
  clothes dry dry cleaned his market mockings on it. And I think initially too,
• 58:10
  Arline Roberts said that when he when he came out of his rooming house,
• 58:14
  he had a dark jacket on. Yeah. Yeah, oh, I'm
• 58:16
  glad you mentioned he's not dark. I'm glad you mentioned Earline Roberts because the
• 58:21
  last time I was on your show, I said that the FBI Hoover forbid
• 58:24
  the Dallas FBI office from interviewing Earlene Roberts. I had that wrong. It
• 58:29
  wasn't Earline Roberts. It was Aquilla Clemens. It was Aquilla Clements and Frank
• 58:34
  and Mary Wright that Hoova sent a memo to the to the Dallas FBI office
• 58:42
  telling them don't interview them. They're not to be interviewed. And these were
• 58:45
  people who saw something different that the official version said in the tipp At murder
• 58:52
  case. So I just wanted to make sure that people understood that I made
• 58:54
  a mistake when I said earline Roberts. I was listening to the show the
• 58:59
  other night to try to figure out what I said so I wouldn't repeat myself
• 59:01
  in this show. And when I said early Roberts, where the hell did
• 59:06
  I get that from? And it was actually it was actually a Quilla clements
• 59:09
  uh that who was interviewed by mac Lane in nineteen sixty six. She was
• 59:14
  the one that HU said, don't interview her and the two rights. Mary
• 59:17
  Wright was the first one to call the Dallas Police through the operator. She
• 59:21
  called the operator and said give me the police, and so her her call
• 59:25
  into the Dallas Police would really go a long way in establishing the time of
• 59:30
  the Tippet murder. But anyways, I just talked about what Frank Right said
• 59:36
  he saw, you know, concerning the a little gray coop Yeah, a
• 59:40
  grade nineteen fifty Plymouth. Yeah, yeah, that he said that he saw
• 59:45
  leaving the scene of the accident Velmont or whatever it was. Yeah, guy
• 59:52
  booted out of there pretty quick. Yeah. Yeah, So that that was
• 59:58
  an interesting, uh little But I didn't really correlate the two um before One
• 1:00:05
  of my listeners sent me an email about that Velma phone call from the early
• 1:00:09
  two thousands into some radio show that she saw a great a little great plymouth
• 1:00:15
  coupe. Yeah, around the school book depository, and supposedly Tippett came by
• 1:00:20
  there and told him, told him that they had to leave or something.
• 1:00:25
  It's interesting. The same thing was seen at the Tippet murder sing in Oaklift
• 1:00:30
  then later Yeah, interesting stuff. Yeah, and here's another one. There
• 1:00:38
  was no chain of possession establishing that the CE one thirty nine rifle was the
• 1:00:43
  same rifle found by Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone on the sixth floor of Boone never
• 1:00:49
  identified that rifle. He said it was similar, but he never put mocked
• 1:00:52
  the rifle or anything. He should have been he should have been required to
• 1:00:55
  do that, but he did that. One said Mouser seventh twin six.
• 1:01:02
  Yeah, and they all said it. Boone said it, Boone said it,
• 1:01:06
  Whitesburg said it, Roger Craig said it, and Boone even Boone even
• 1:01:10
  said that. Fritz said it. Fritz then I'd saying it, but he
• 1:01:14
  said that Fritz was the one that said it was a seven point six five
• 1:01:16
  Mausa. How can you do that when you got it right in your hands
• 1:01:20
  and you put what you can't read. Yeah. One of those guys even
• 1:01:24
  owned uh like a sporting duds store one time and sold rifles and you know,
• 1:01:30
  knew knew a lot about mausers and things like that. So Seymour Wizman.
• 1:01:36
  Yeah, yeah, Well, if we got time, I'd like to
• 1:01:38
  get into real quick. The real reason why Oswald went to Irving absolutely on
• 1:01:45
  eleven twenty one, and this is something that I put online and and the
• 1:01:58
  Warren Commission said that oz Wald had gone to Irving to get his rifle the
• 1:02:02
  night before to kill the president. And there's no evidence that he ever had
• 1:02:06
  in the animals. Everybody who had talked about Oswald talked to Oswald said he
• 1:02:10
  had nothing but good things to say about Kennedy. So anyways, the weekend
• 1:02:16
  before Oswald didn't go to Irving November fifteen to seventeenth. And during the testimony,
• 1:02:23
  Marina Oswald to the commission that on the weekend before the assassination, Oswald
• 1:02:28
  did not come on Saturday and Sunday because we had a quarrel that incident with
• 1:02:31
  the fictitious name. Now he had used a fictitious name to get his room
• 1:02:39
  at the rooming House on ten twenty six North Beckley. He had been trying
• 1:02:44
  to avoid the FBI. This is really interesting because the FBI seems to be
• 1:02:50
  wanting to keep track of Oswald, but they don't really want to talk to
• 1:02:52
  him. They just want to know where he is. And I find this
• 1:02:58
  very interesting because if you've got something to say about the guy, you go
• 1:03:02
  to where he works. So you go to where he lives. Now,
• 1:03:07
  Hosty James host he had gone to the paying residence and look looking for Oswald,
• 1:03:15
  and they didn't know where he where he lived. He never told him
• 1:03:16
  where he lived, but he did give him the phone number, so she
• 1:03:20
  gave Hosty the phone number. Now I'm sure host he knew where he lived
• 1:03:22
  just by tracing the phone number. All he had to do is go to
• 1:03:25
  the phone company and uh, you know, yeah, him being who he
• 1:03:31
  was, uh you know, he could have got the information very easily.
• 1:03:36
  Where the where where he was living. So anyways, he doesn't go there
• 1:03:40
  and she he called her the following day. She told him not to come
• 1:03:45
  to that weekend the fifteenth to seventeenth, because it was not convenient for Ruth
• 1:03:49
  Payne for the whole Oswald family to be there. Now, this is Marina's
• 1:03:52
  testimony, okay, Volume one. Ruth Payne had a problem with Oswald coming
• 1:03:58
  there every weekend. That's that's the whole thing. And Ruth Payne, you
• 1:04:03
  know, I just I think there's something else going on there between Ruth Payne
• 1:04:09
  and Marina. And the reason why I say that is because Ruth Marina is
• 1:04:15
  living there to teach Ruth Paine Russian. Well, you can take Russian lessons.
• 1:04:17
  You don't have to have somebody living with your twenty foot seven. Okay,
• 1:04:21
  you know there's something else. She hates Oswald, but she loves Marina,
• 1:04:26
  and it's just in the back of my head there's something going on there.
• 1:04:30
  It's just anyways, that's my own opinion, she told the Ruth Payne
• 1:04:35
  told the Warrant commissioner, this is a testimony, Volume three. I would
• 1:04:40
  have been happy had he never come out, indeed, happier that he had
• 1:04:43
  not come out on weekends. She didn't want him there, all right.
• 1:04:45
  So rather than go and tell him that Ruth Paine problem showing up with Oswald,
• 1:04:51
  Oswald used the excuse that he was going for a written test for his
• 1:04:56
  driver's license because Frazier had asked him, why aren't you coming home with me
• 1:05:00
  this weekend? Soe Marina had told him, rather than explained to him that
• 1:05:03
  Ruth Payne was Ruth will Payne was being an asshole and didn't want him there
• 1:05:08
  every weekend to visit with his family, he just said he was going for
• 1:05:11
  his driver's license. So this is this is this isn't that nosy kid Frasier
• 1:05:17
  who has to know everything that Oswald is doing. Rather than tell him about
• 1:05:23
  the problem with Ruth Payne, he just used the excuse that he was going
• 1:05:26
  for his driver's license. And what this shows is that Oswald had a propensity
• 1:05:31
  for keeping his personal life to himself and he wasn't going to discuss his problems
• 1:05:34
  or the reasons for them with Frasier. Now again, this isn't. Maybe
• 1:05:38
  may have been a reason why he used the curtain rodd story, but let's
• 1:05:41
  let's continue. Oswald showed good judgment in this manner because when they got to
• 1:05:45
  Fraser's house on the twenty first, Fraser's sister Lenny may ran or want to
• 1:05:48
  know why Oswald was with him. If Oswald had told Frasier the real reason
• 1:05:54
  why I was going to Irving, it would have been all over the neighborhood
• 1:05:56
  and shot order. So therefore, any reason he told Frasier going or not
• 1:06:00
  going to Irving after the eleventh of November must be considered within the context of
• 1:06:04
  these circumstances. Now, So Sunday, November seventeenth, Marina testifies that Sunday,
• 1:06:10
  November seventeenth, she and Oswald gotten an argument over the phone about his
• 1:06:14
  use of Annelius. If true or testimony that he tried to call her back
• 1:06:20
  but she hung up on him and wouldn't talk to them, would have left
• 1:06:23
  them no other choice to fix this mess but to go to Irving in person.
• 1:06:27
  See, she won't talk to him over the phone, so what else
• 1:06:30
  is he going to do. He's got to go to Irving in person.
• 1:06:32
  But he's got to have the permission of Ruth Pain. Normally he had the
• 1:06:36
  permission of Ruth Pay to go there, but he couldn't get He couldn't get
• 1:06:41
  them on the phone. They wouldn't talk to him. So since he couldn't
• 1:06:44
  get that permission, he would have had to have gone up going there on
• 1:06:46
  announced, which is exactly what he did. And he would have had to
• 1:06:51
  make an excuse to satisfy the ever inquiring mind of young Bull Frasier. So
• 1:07:00
  I've addressed the possibility that at my website that Oswald didn't in fact need curtain
• 1:07:03
  rodds for his room. But let's, for the sake of argument, say
• 1:07:06
  that he didn't and this was just an excuse. The curtain story was just
• 1:07:11
  an excuse to hide from nosy neighbors. The real reason why he went to
• 1:07:14
  Irving on the twenty first to patch things up with his wife. That's why
• 1:07:17
  he went there. He didn't go there to get any rifle. He went
• 1:07:21
  there to patch things up with his wife. That was the whole story.
• 1:07:25
  So Marina testified when he showed up Thursday evening un announced, he told her
• 1:07:29
  he was lonely. Now this is her testimony quote, he was lonely and
• 1:07:32
  he hadn't come to preceding weekend and he wanted to make his peace with me.
• 1:07:38
  That's her testimony. Okay, this is what he's telling her why he
• 1:07:43
  went there. He also expressed a desire to move Marina and his girls out
• 1:07:46
  of Marine Ruth Paine's house and in with him in an apartment with Dallas now,
• 1:07:50
  does this sound like a guy that's going to kill the president in eighteen
• 1:07:54
  hours? No. Marina testified that Oswald quote didn't want me to remain with
• 1:08:00
  if any long un end quote Well, neither would I if I was him.
• 1:08:03
  The guy wanted to spend time with his family without the restrictions placed on
• 1:08:06
  him by Ruth Payne. Plus the evidence, This evidence that Oswald was making
• 1:08:11
  plans to move his family for the future cast out on his guilt two murders
• 1:08:15
  less than twenty four hours later. If the Curtain Rodds story was just that,
• 1:08:19
  a story to satisfy the nosy neighbors, Oswald was playing it to the
• 1:08:24
  helper. On the morning of November twenty second, he showed up for his
• 1:08:26
  ride ride to work carrying what witnesses described as a package that was between twenty
• 1:08:31
  seven and twenty eight and a half inches long. The only two witnesses that
• 1:08:34
  saw the package, Fraser and his sister. Their estimations of the length of
• 1:08:40
  the package were so precise that they can't be considered as being an error.
• 1:08:44
  They were consistently at that between two feet and twenty eight and a half inches,
• 1:08:49
  consistently the length of the curtain rodds were established in testimony when Secret Service
• 1:08:56
  agent John Joel Hollett measured the pain rods and measured them at twenty seven and
• 1:09:00
  a half inches. Can you imagine that that's how close they were? On
• 1:09:03
  December first, sixty three, the FBI measured where the packages was in the
• 1:09:08
  back of Phraser's connin determined it was twenty seven inches from the inside of the
• 1:09:11
  right duor, indicating that Frasier estimates the length of the package at twenty eight
• 1:09:15
  seven inches. It also interviewed Randall, showing her the replica bag and folded
• 1:09:19
  the top of the bag until they reached achieved the length of the package she
• 1:09:23
  saw. It reported that quote. When the proper length of attack was reached,
• 1:09:27
  according to Missus Randall's estimate, it was measured and found out to be
• 1:09:30
  twenty seven inches long end quote. The witnesses estimations of the length of the
• 1:09:35
  package were so precise that they were within an inch of the established length of
• 1:09:39
  the paying rods, and as a result, the witnesses estimations of the length
• 1:09:43
  of the package they saw was entighly consistent with the package containing curtain rods and
• 1:09:47
  fought too short to have contained the rifle even broken down, which was thirty
• 1:09:51
  four point eight inches power. Like I said before, Dougherty said, Oswald
• 1:10:00
  didn't carry a package into the building. But we have to we have to
• 1:10:06
  ask the question of when did Oswald teld Frasier he wasn't going to Irving on
• 1:10:11
  Friday evening? Because he told them that he wasn't going the weekend after the
• 1:10:15
  assassination, he wasn't going. The warrant Commission made it sounded like he wasn't
• 1:10:18
  going there because you know, he didn't he was going to escape he was
• 1:10:25
  taken off after the assassination, that he wasn't going to Irving. Frasier testified
• 1:10:30
  that Oswald told him on Thursday, when Oswald asked him for a ride,
• 1:10:32
  that he would not be going home with him on Friday evening. That's what
• 1:10:35
  the Commission said, and that's what Frasier originally said. But when Frasier was
• 1:10:39
  asked if he discussed it with Oswald on Friday morning to see if Oswald had
• 1:10:44
  changed his mind, Fraser said, I'm not sure. He was sure.
• 1:10:46
  On December first, though, when he told the FBI that Oswald told him
• 1:10:51
  on the way to work on the morning of the twenty second that he would
• 1:10:55
  not be going to Irving that weekend. Say so, this changes the whole,
• 1:11:00
  the whole thing. Here, Oswald's telling him on the way to work
• 1:11:03
  on Friday morning the twenty second that he's not going to be coming back with
• 1:11:06
  him that night. So this is not Oswald planning to kill the president.
• 1:11:12
  This is Oswald realizing that, you know, maybe he didn't patch things up
• 1:11:16
  with Marina and he didn't have permission to go there for the weekend, so
• 1:11:19
  maybe he was he's not going to be going there. As a matter of
• 1:11:21
  fact, even left his ring on her dresser, So apparently he didn't think
• 1:11:27
  that he had patched things up with her, or he just forgot it.
• 1:11:32
  Yeah, yeah, he just forgot it, that's what. He just took
• 1:11:34
  his ring off and forgot it. If he told Frasier on Friday morning,
• 1:11:38
  he may have left Irving with the feeling he had not patched things up with
• 1:11:41
  his wife and would have explained why he left his wedding ring along with the
• 1:11:44
  cash on top of a dresser and has to report The Commission ignored the FBI
• 1:11:47
  reported December first, and published instead that Oswald told Frasier on Thursday More evidence
• 1:11:55
  that Oswald didn't go to Irving to get his rifle is the evidence that Oswald
• 1:11:59
  says that Oswald didn't even know what the President was coming through a Daily Plaza
• 1:12:01
  that day, which I've already discussed his conversation with James Johman where he didn't
• 1:12:08
  even know which direction the President was coming from. So how could he possibly
• 1:12:13
  plan on Thursday to retrieve his rifle from Prayne's garage and breed it to work
• 1:12:15
  on Friday when didn't even even know the President was coming through Daily Plaza until
• 1:12:19
  after he was at work. So the real reason, in my opinion,
• 1:12:23
  this is my opinion based on the evidence I've seen, this is what the
• 1:12:28
  Commission said. Now, the preponderance of the evidence supports the conclusion that Lee
• 1:12:30
  Javier Oswald told the curtain rodd story to Frasier to explain both the return to
• 1:12:35
  Irving on a Thursday and the obvious bulk of the package which he intended to
• 1:12:39
  bring to work the next day. As it did with much of the circumstances
• 1:12:43
  in this case, the Commission got it all wrong. Oswald went to Irving
• 1:12:45
  on the twenty first to patch things up with his wife, with whom he
• 1:12:48
  had an argument over the phone and wasn't talking to him. Marina Oswald testified
• 1:12:54
  that's what he told her, and later that evening she had a conversation with
• 1:12:57
  Ruth Paine about why he came to Irving on an out and without permission.
• 1:13:00
  Ruth Payne told the Commission that Marina quote suggest that he was making up the
• 1:13:04
  quarrel they had because of her attempt to reach him at his rooming house by
• 1:13:09
  phone, and I agreed concurred with that judgment of an end quote. It
• 1:13:13
  wasn't just Marina's opinion. She testified that Oswald told her that if Oswald brought
• 1:13:17
  a package to work with him on the morning of the twenty second, the
• 1:13:20
  length of that package was not consistent with it having contained the broken down rifle,
• 1:13:25
  which was thirty four point eight inches long. The established length of the
• 1:13:29
  curtain rods in the garage, as measured by the Secret Service, was twenty
• 1:13:33
  seven and a half inches. Two witnesses saw the long and bulky package.
• 1:13:38
  Both estimated it to be twenty seven twenty eight and a half inches in length,
• 1:13:42
  precisely the length of the curtain rods. Another witness, Jacked already saw
• 1:13:46
  Oswald enter the building and testified that quote, he would say positively that he
• 1:13:50
  had nothing in his hands. End quote. Oswald didn't go to Irving on
• 1:13:54
  eleven twenty one to retrieve his rifle. The evidence indicates that Oswald went to
• 1:13:58
  Irving on the twenty first to make up with his wife after a quarrel of
• 1:14:01
  the phone caused her to stop talking to him. It also indicates that if
• 1:14:06
  he brought a package to work that morning, it wasn't a rifle. And
• 1:14:10
  finally, the evidence indication that he never brought a package into building that morning,
• 1:14:15
  and all of the Warring Commission's circular reasoning isn't going to change that.
• 1:14:18
  And that's pretty much it. That's pretty much what I had to say about
• 1:14:20
  him going to Irving on the Thursday to twenty first. I had a question
• 1:14:27
  for you. Can I remember hearing something And I can't remember if it was
• 1:14:31
  this the weekend of the assassination or if it was an earlier one, but
• 1:14:36
  I think there was some kind of a story that Ruth Payne said she didn't
• 1:14:43
  want Oswald out there because it was it was the sun Birthday party that weekend
• 1:14:47
  and she didn't want him there for it. Yeah, it was the weekend
• 1:14:50
  before that was the weekend before the assassination. No, it was the weekend
• 1:14:55
  I think it was a couple of weekends before that. He went. He
• 1:14:58
  went. She didn't she didn't want him now, but he went there.
• 1:15:00
  Anyways, He went because she didn't want him here, because he didn't get
• 1:15:03
  along with her husband Oswalchael, Yeah, Oswald didn't get along with her.
• 1:15:10
  With Michael Payne, that was buddy, buddy and together. I don't I
• 1:15:16
  don't think they were as close as people would think. I think here later
• 1:15:20
  on he got kind of got a little as strange from him. But uh,
• 1:15:25
  but he did say. One thing Michael Payne did say is that he
• 1:15:27
  didn't believe Oswald was the killer. He didn't believe that anybody who believed who
• 1:15:32
  was a Castro supporter would would kill the president. Anybody who believed that,
• 1:15:38
  you know, was a friend of Cuba would do that. When you think
• 1:15:40
  about it, it makes more sense for Oswald to go after somebody like Walker,
• 1:15:45
  who was a right winger, than to go after Kennedy, who was
• 1:15:48
  not, who was trying to make peace with the Russians and make peace with
• 1:15:53
  Castro. You know, all of this stuff was going on because the scenes,
• 1:15:58
  Why on earth would Oswald or anybody else want to kill a president that
• 1:16:04
  had just given a peace speech in June nineteenth, in June tenth, and
• 1:16:10
  just at that summer saying that we need to look at our own attitudes towards
• 1:16:15
  the Russians. You know, the Russians aren't always the problem with the problem
• 1:16:19
  too, and we need to take a look at our own attitudes towards the
• 1:16:24
  Russians. It was a guy who wanted to live in a competitive atmosphere,
• 1:16:30
  a peaceful competitive atmosphere with the Russians, you know, a race to the
• 1:16:33
  moon and stuff like that. This was not This was not what had been
• 1:16:39
  American foreign policy since the end of World War Two. George Kennon's nineteen forty
• 1:16:46
  seven State Department letter on Containment the Americans. American foreign policy had always been
• 1:16:53
  to contain the Communists and not let them get any new territory. And this
• 1:16:59
  was Kennedy saying, you know, I don't care if they communists, uh,
• 1:17:03
  you know, if the people vote them communists in, as long as
• 1:17:06
  the people can vote the communists out, I don't care who's communists and who
• 1:17:11
  isn't, you know, And this was this was not this was not acceptable.
• 1:17:17
  Yeah, I know. One thing you mentioned earlier about Marina and the
• 1:17:20
  FBI and and Ruth pain Um, you know, it was you know,
• 1:17:27
  it was always stood out to me that, you know, I think probably
• 1:17:31
  probably the CIA and definitely the FBI were worried more about the Russian spouse that
• 1:17:40
  came back to America with their defector than they were the actual defector, because
• 1:17:47
  you know, the chances of them being a spy are much greater than the
• 1:17:53
  defector being a double agent, you know what I mean. Yep, And
• 1:17:57
  and it makes sense that they would want some boddy close to Marina, you
• 1:18:02
  know, real close, you know, to monitor her and and try to
• 1:18:06
  see if maybe she's some kind of sleeper age in her, she has other
• 1:18:11
  motives or whatever. I think. I think Ruth Payne was CIA, her
• 1:18:15
  CISCO, her sister definitely was. Her sister was involved in working for the
• 1:18:19
  CIA, but I think she was too. Yeah. I think Hosty was
• 1:18:24
  sniffing up the same flag pole there, you know, trying to keeping more
• 1:18:28
  of an eye on Marina than than really Oswald. Yeah, he didn't seem
• 1:18:31
  too interested in and talking to Oswald. He just was pres where they were
• 1:18:36
  at, Yeah, and track of it. He was definitely um keeping back
• 1:18:42
  of where where Marina was and talking to her right specifically, which I guess
• 1:18:47
  Oswald didn't take too finally too, but I get it. You know,
• 1:18:50
  if you FBI keeps, you know, sniffing around and trying to talk to
• 1:18:56
  your wife and there, you know, somebody seems to be poisoning the air
• 1:19:00
  between you and your wife. And yeah, the thing, the thing,
• 1:19:05
  the thing with the FBI was that they would go to his place of work
• 1:19:09
  and tell them that he was a communist and he'd get fired. He couldn't
• 1:19:13
  hold a job. The FBI was doing doing that kind of thing to him.
• 1:19:16
  They were harassing him. So finally he said, you know what,
• 1:19:19
  I'm not gonna they're not going to find out where I work, and they're
• 1:19:23
  not going to find out where I live, and they're not going to talk
• 1:19:26
  to my neighbors and stuff like that and uh and my landlady and stuff.
• 1:19:30
  And I'm not just I'm going to go use a post office box and they're
• 1:19:33
  never gonna know where I live. Yeah, and I'll blame him. Yeah,
• 1:19:39
  And I think that, Uh, I think Oswald came into the cross
• 1:19:43
  hears that. I think that personally, I think the DRE, the Student
• 1:19:46
  Directorate, was involved in the assassination. I believe that they can't. He
• 1:19:51
  can't They Oswald came into their hands in August of nineteen sixty three when he
• 1:19:56
  walked into that store of callis brain Gis bring Gear was a secretary of the
• 1:20:02
  DR and New Orleans. They had a training training facility outside a Lake Poncha
• 1:20:09
  train where they were training, doing a lot of shooting and stuff. They
• 1:20:13
  were training, and there was this thing of a second invasion of Cuba,
• 1:20:19
  which I don't believe was going to happen at the end of sixty three that
• 1:20:25
  they were supposed to Kennedy's was supposed to be invading Cuba at the end of
• 1:20:28
  sixty three, which I think is it's kind of funny. I think I
• 1:20:30
  laugh at it because JFK had made a promise to the Russians that they would
• 1:20:35
  not invade Cuba and they would not support anybody who tried to. Now,
• 1:20:43
  if you can imagine what the internationally implications would be if Kennedy had lied to
• 1:20:48
  the Russians, he would never be able to get them to sign any kind
• 1:20:53
  of a treaty in the future if he went back on that word. There's
• 1:20:58
  no way in hell that k was going that the Kennedys were gonna knowingly and
• 1:21:02
  purposely invade Cuba. That's ridiculous. By the end of sixty three, that's
• 1:21:06
  ridiculous. And they say, oh, he was going to use that as
• 1:21:09
  a lifting lift, a liftoff point for his uh reelection in sixty four.
• 1:21:15
  No, I don't believe that. I don't believe that Kennedy was gonna invade
• 1:21:19
  Cuba. I think that the CIA was operating as a rogue element of the
• 1:21:24
  US government. They had been since the nineteen fifties. They had the blessings
• 1:21:28
  of Eisenhower. They could they killed patriots. Lamambah of the Congo they killed
• 1:21:33
  him on Oswald Oswald, on Eisenhower's orders. He finally told Dollas get rid
• 1:21:41
  of him. And when the President says get rid of him, that's the
• 1:21:45
  euphemism for assassination. And that's what they did. They they the CIA gave
• 1:21:50
  guns. This was the CIA's m O. The CIA gave guns to a
• 1:21:55
  group that was anti Lamamba and they would ended up they killed the guy.
• 1:22:00
  And in Vietnam they had the d M brothers killed, but that was done
• 1:22:04
  by the military, and I think that that's what happened in Dallas. I
• 1:22:09
  think the CIA got the and military got the DRE the guns they needed.
• 1:22:15
  They would be in stolen out of Forthood in Texas. And uh, sometime
• 1:22:19
  sometime in the future, I'll come on your show again and we'll talk about
• 1:22:23
  this and why I think the DRE was involved. And uh, I think
• 1:22:28
  that they were the ones had they certainly uh doc skinned Cubans. Doc skinned
• 1:22:33
  men that were described on the sixth floor certainly would matched the description of Cubans.
• 1:22:39
  Uh. And I think that a lot of them were double agents.
• 1:22:42
  Some of them were double agents for Castro and uh certain matches the driver or
• 1:22:46
  the rambler, the yeah, yeah, imagine if they had been killed after
• 1:22:58
  they had killed the President, that they had been killed by the Secret Service
• 1:23:00
  or by the Dallas police or something, and come to find out, of
• 1:23:04
  course, they would never reveal that they were they were aligned with the CIA,
• 1:23:09
  but they would that they would double agents, that they would aligned that
• 1:23:12
  they were aligned with Castro. Can you imagine if they had been caught or
• 1:23:16
  they had been killed three what a story that would have been that Castro killed
• 1:23:21
  the president. Oh my god. I mean, but they had Oswald.
• 1:23:27
  They had Oswald. They didn't need them, they didn't need to do that.
• 1:23:30
  They had Oswald. And Oswald was connected very loosely with Cuba because he
• 1:23:34
  was a he was a Castro supporter U and that was close enough. Yeah,
• 1:23:42
  And that was one more question for you, Gili. What do you
• 1:23:46
  think of And I'm sure you've heard of it. The package that was found
• 1:23:51
  and the Nixy's been after Oswald has already been killed. There was a dressed
• 1:23:57
  to Oswald and effectious is addressed. It didn't exist, um, and then
• 1:24:04
  somebody across through it and wrote the Irving Irving, Texas address on it and
• 1:24:12
  it but it had been opened and the only thing that it contained was some
• 1:24:15
  brown paper wrapping paper mysteriously enough. Yeah, I was wondering if you'd ever
• 1:24:23
  looked into it, and I thought about that. I never, I never
• 1:24:26
  looked into it. But it's kind of like, uh, it's kind of
• 1:24:30
  like the killer leaving his mark, you know. Yeah, it's it's it's
• 1:24:35
  certainly very interesting, especially that paper would have matched the package paper. You
• 1:24:43
  know, it's interesting like remember the uh, I don't know if you've heard
• 1:24:46
  about this, but in the the Atomic Energy Commission. I think it was
• 1:24:53
  somewhere. Was it in Tennessee? The Yeah, bulk Ridge, Tennessee.
• 1:25:00
  I think it was somebody somebody signed in the book. You know, they
• 1:25:05
  have guests signing. Somebody signed in the book. Lee Oswald Oswald Dallas Road,
• 1:25:11
  Dallas, Texas. Yeah, I mean, you never know. I
• 1:25:15
  mean, it could just be somebody clowning around, you know what I mean.
• 1:25:19
  But it's just it's interesting. It looks like his writing, you know,
• 1:25:25
  yeah, definitely doesn't not look like he's writing so interesting, very interesting
• 1:25:30
  stuff. Yeah. Well, gil Man, I appreciate you stopping by the
• 1:25:33
  show again and going through all this with me, and uh, you know,
• 1:25:36
  we'll do it again. We'll talk some r we'll talk some extreme right
• 1:25:41
  wingers. It was great being being here with you again. It's always a
• 1:25:45
  pleasure to talk to you. I appreciate the invitation, and I'm available for
• 1:25:50
  you anytime you don't need me. Awesome, Awesome. I definitely appreciate it,
• 1:25:55
  and we'll have you back soon. Folks. Follow along with the show
• 1:25:59
  on Twitter at the loan Guming seven Facebook Search for the Loangoming Facebook page on
• 1:26:04
  YouTube. The Loan Guming podcast channel you like to subscribe once again, Thank
• 1:26:10
  you Gil Jesus. You can find all his stuff at gildask Jesus dot com
• 1:26:15
  and I urge all of you to go there and check it out. There
• 1:26:18
  are some fantastic stuff over there. Once again, thank you Gil for joining
• 1:26:23
  the show and we'll talk to you later. Thank you. Don't for Sister
• 1:27:02
  three. The leader Freeworld's to be a window, and he was playing a
• 1:27:19
  chill that everyone was dog brown. She's a man of don't believe for one
• 1:27:33
  that tell you by the bed line, have to tell you they chill chap
• 1:28:00
  came yet the boy waiting all was so bad. The trumper ruck had begun
• 1:28:25
  the tumple be I do with all and made my simple song, don't be
• 1:28:35
  world, tell you be line, have me tell you the be that you
• 1:29:01
  champion wayside wayside situay to throw my raining from me for canning him. We
• 1:29:23
  caught him head and he fell pain down and back of his card one was
• 1:29:28
  on him head and the canning card on on down. Be the thig that
• 1:30:00
  champaint the rim ward away. I'm aware alway I get accout of the resident