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When Birth Doesn’t Go as Planned: Patients’ Rights, Medical Records, and Advocacy in the Delivery Room · Cry It Out Loud: Navigating Infertility, Miscarriage, Stillbirth, Infant Loss & Pregnancy After Loss

• 0:11
  Crying Out Loud, a podcast by Chasing the Rainbows with your
• 0:19
  host Bernice Quisenberry. Every 90 seconds in the USA,
• 0:28
  family experiences baby loss, pregnancy, or infant loss.
• 0:32
  For many, the heartbreak is compounded by not understanding
• 0:34
  their rights as patients, especially when their birth plan
• 0:37
  is disrupted. Today I'm joined by Savannah
• 0:40
  June, who is a registered nurse and also known as the Savvy
• 0:44
  Legal RN. Savannah assist attorneys
• 0:47
  nationwide by reviewing medical related cases with a Sharp
• 0:51
  HealthCare perspective. Specializing in high risk OB,
• 0:55
  maternal fetal medicine, and electronic fetal monitoring
• 0:59
  review. Her work bridges the worlds of
• 1:02
  nursing and law, giving families a voice when things go
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  tragically wrong in the delivery room.
• 1:06
  She's here with us to share what every parent needs to know about
• 1:09
  patient rights, medical records, and how to advocate for yourself
• 1:13
  when birth doesn't go as planned.
• 1:15
  Savannah, thank you so much for being on here today.
• 1:18
  Yeah, thanks for having me. Yes, absolutely.
• 1:20
  And I want to start right where so many parents find themselves
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  in the delivery room or the clinic when things don't go as
• 1:27
  plan. And families often feel
• 1:29
  powerless in those moments, like they can't, you know, question,
• 1:33
  like they just can't process things.
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  They question everything or even just slow down with what's
• 1:38
  happening. So from your perspective as both
• 1:40
  a nurse and a legal consult, of course, we would love to hear
• 1:44
  why you're so passionate about your work and what you feel like
• 1:47
  every parent should know about their rights in these critical
• 1:50
  situations. Sure.
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  So I have a background in OB, I've been an OB nurse for over
• 1:57
  17 years. I started in labor and delivery.
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  And when I was in labor and delivery, I found that I really
• 2:06
  do have a passion for patients experiencing loss and and taking
• 2:11
  care of those families. And then when I became a little
• 2:17
  bit more experienced in my work, I decided to kind of branch off
• 2:24
  into like the legal realm of it. And so I'm looking at, you know,
• 2:28
  bad outcomes. And a lot of times I get asked
• 2:31
  to review records and see, Hey, what's the standard of care met
• 2:35
  here? Did we miss something along the
• 2:39
  way? And, and sometimes it was and,
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  you know, I'm here to kind of help those families get a voice,
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  but also sometimes it was a really tragic outcome that
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  couldn't be prevented. And I do think that having
• 2:55
  somebody like review it and kind of explain that also is able to
• 2:59
  bring some peace to people who weren't able to get the debriefs
• 3:03
  or answers, you know, from their medical team during such a
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  traumatic experience. So I get to see kind of both
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  sides of the fence, you know, being a nurse still myself, I'm
• 3:16
  clinically active in maternal fetal medicine.
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  But also seeing the other side of of, you know, patient
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  experiences and, and people experiencing loss or trauma
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  after there has been a really traumatic event, you know, still
• 3:31
  being able to help them with my medical knowledge.
• 3:34
  Absolutely. Thank you so much, Savannah, for
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  sharing that. And yeah, your passion, you
• 3:38
  know, behind your work and the years that you've, you know,
• 3:41
  spent alongside patients and still spend alongside them.
• 3:44
  I know most of the times, you know, birth plans don't go as
• 3:47
  planned regardless of loss or what happens.
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  But, you know, things pivot and move in different situations and
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  to really, you know, in those moments with the birthing person
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  and the baby, you know, monitoring them and everything,
• 4:01
  you know. Yeah.
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  And so in those moments, it is so important to understand, you
• 4:06
  know, what you can ask for, what you know with with if within
• 4:10
  your rights and things like that.
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  And I think educating is so much better to advocate for yourself
• 4:16
  in those situations. For sure.
• 4:18
  Yeah. So one of the big things I do
• 4:21
  because I work in a prenatal setting, so I see patients as a
• 4:26
  nurse in clinic and I'm explaining sometimes really
• 4:31
  complex medical conditions to them that maybe the doctor
• 4:35
  already explained but used like very technical terms.
• 4:40
  You can always ask for it to, you know, be re explained in in
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  like a different way, like can you rephrase that for me is
• 4:50
  totally OK to ask. You can also get your records.
• 4:53
  I I think like the number one thing that I'm recommending for
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  my patients is to download the hospital or the clinic's patient
• 5:01
  portal that gives you your labs, your your records and they
• 5:07
  belong to you. There was the CARES Act which
• 5:11
  came out and, and that means that your automatic, your your
• 5:15
  record should be automatically released to you through that.
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  So a lot of patients are finding this like patient portal is
• 5:22
  helpful because they're not waiting for a call to see if
• 5:26
  their labs are abnormal. They're able to reach out to
• 5:29
  their provider directly and ask a question.
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  They're able to see if things have been reviewed by the
• 5:35
  medical provider yet. A lot of times patients get the
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  labs before the nurses or doctors even get a chance to
• 5:42
  look at it. Sometimes it gives you a chance
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  to to process that information before the doctor comes to you.
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  And so that you know, like what questions to ask.
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  So that's always one thing that I recommend to my patients
• 5:54
  prenatally to, to be more involved in their care and to
• 5:59
  have access to those records. Absolutely.
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  And so, yeah, like you're saying, that's all under and
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  they have ownership to all of that.
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  All the test results, Labs notes, everything belongs to the
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  patient. So that's something that they
• 6:13
  can find in their portals, they can pull it and then they can
• 6:16
  review it. Right.
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  And if like you're going to, you know, sometimes smaller clinics
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  don't have an online portal, you still you should still be able
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  to get your medical records. You just might have to go
• 6:28
  through their like health information or sign a release.
• 6:32
  Absolutely. And is there a time frame that
• 6:35
  they have to be able to provide those records to you within?
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  You know, I think that that each hospital policy has like
• 6:44
  probably something different. They should not be, you know,
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  withholding them for a long time.
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  Sometimes it can take, you know, a week to get, you know, prior
• 6:54
  results through medical records. But if the hospital has a
• 6:58
  patient portal, you should be able to get those released
• 7:00
  immediately. OK, Now that's good to know,
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  Savannah. Yeah.
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  And just understanding if there was any laws around that or
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  maybe that is something someday, you know, that will change, you
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  know that it has to be within a certain time frame and all of
• 7:13
  those things. So.
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  Yeah, when you're going to like a health information or health
• 7:18
  management and signing the release form, somebody has to
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  manually go in and extract those records.
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  So it does, you know, take some time, but it it shouldn't take
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  weeks. Yes.
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  OK. No, that's good to understand.
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  Yeah. And you were talking about how
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  language matters. And it really does because in
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  those moments when you're being thrown all this medical jargon
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  and you're not understanding it, and then you're trying to make
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  critical decisions, you know, especially when it comes to the
• 7:45
  health of you, your baby, in those moments.
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  And everything is so heightened. I think it's, you know, language
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  can either shut doors or they can open them in so many ways
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  with patients. So, you know, you've shared some
• 7:58
  of the grounding phrases that, you know, we talked about
• 8:00
  before, like how to really empower parents to have that
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  voice. Like, can you rephrase that?
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  But then also like things like I'm concerned about or what are
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  all their alternatives or ways that parents can ask for things
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  in those moments? Right.
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  So I always tell my patients as well, like if there's something
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  that you're not understanding or something that you're worried
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  about in healthcare, we we focus a lot about like communication
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  and especially in Oba lot of the nurses and providers all have,
• 8:39
  you know, like a professional organization.
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  Like for OB, it's a one the Association of Women's Health,
• 8:44
  Obstetric and Neonatal nurses. The physicians have a cog, the
• 8:48
  American College of Obstetrics and Gynecologists, and they talk
• 8:52
  about the perinatal communication and one of the
• 8:55
  things that we bring up frequently, and they're called
• 8:58
  cuss words, not like swearing, but it's, I'm concerned about or
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  I'm uncomfortable with this. I, I'm concerned about the
• 9:09
  safety of this. And when nurses bring those
• 9:12
  phrases up to providers, it's kind of like a stop.
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  Like let's talk about this. And patients can use those words
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  too. So I always tell my patients, if
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  there's something that you're you're concerned about or that
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  isn't making sense to you or you're uncomfortable with, use
• 9:30
  that language, the provider is or should be aware of that
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  language to, to mean like, OK, I need to, I need to think about
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  this. I need to slow down.
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  I need to make sure that we're all on the same page here.
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  Another thing is informed consent is huge in OB And I, I
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  think that's a big, a big feeling with, with people that
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  have experienced like a loss or trauma because they felt
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  sometimes like they weren't informed.
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  And so one thing that you can do as a patient too, is to ask
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  like, what are the benefits of this?
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  What are the risks of this? Are there any alternatives to
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  this? And, and your provider should
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  already be, you know, explaining all of those things to you, but
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  using that language as well as like kind of talking in like
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  medical talk back to them. Like, tell me why I should do
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  this. Give me some time to think about
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  this and explain to me what like the benefit is so that I can
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  make an informed choice about my care.
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  Sometimes if patients are like, you know, I just don't feel
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  comfortable asking my doctor or, you know, my midwife or whoever
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  about it, or I just feel like like pressured into a certain
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  situation or I, I feel like uncomfortable asking.
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  I explained to them to like, sometimes adding like a human
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  element to it helps. Sometimes, like I'll even say to
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  my doctors, like, if I was your sister or your best friend, what
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  would you tell me? Because it reminds them that I'm
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  not just a patient, I'm a person.
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  And there's people that care about me and care about my
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  outcomes. Like what would you tell
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  somebody that you loved about this situation, about this
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  disease, about this risk? Like what would you tell
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  somebody that you cared about? And I think that that kind of
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  helps reframe things for the healthcare provider as well.
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  If somebody asks me like that, I, I would love that.
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  I would love to sit down and chat with you like you're my
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  best friend or you're my sister and just explain everything like
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  that. And I, I do think that that
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  helps build a rapport with your patients.
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  And if your provider is able to do that, and if they're not, you
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  can find another provider. Right.
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  Yeah, so important. And to feel that connection
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  because your life, your baby's life are in their hands.
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  And so having that person that can validate you, you know, make
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  you feel seen and heard, all of your concerns are addressed.
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  It's so important in those moments because if something
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  were to go wrong to the other extreme where it goes towards
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  loss, you know, and, and things like that, like the traumas,
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  it's like how can you in those moments feel like you can trust
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  that person? Right.
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  And I mean, making healthcare decisions after you've already
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  experienced like a really traumatic event or loss, it gets
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  really hard to trust somebody that you've just met that you
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  don't know with like the most important decisions of your
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  life, right? I, I get that as a nurse,
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  sometimes we get so busy in our own like care of our patients
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  that we forget that, that they are trying to navigate the
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  system through trauma and that, that it's hard for them to trust
• 12:59
  us. So I need to be able to, like,
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  open that bridge up so that my patients can trust me and feel
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  safe and, you know, be able to make decisions in their own
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  time. And so one other thing that I
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  also advocate for my patients is you can ask, is this an
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  emergency? Do I have time to decide?
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  You can say, can I have a few minutes?
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  Can you step outside of the room so I can think about this?
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  And, you know, I work in maternal fetal medicine.
• 13:34
  So sometimes we see things that are unexpected on ultrasound,
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  right? And then everybody's, you know,
• 13:42
  worst fear comes to mind like, Oh my gosh, I need answers.
• 13:47
  Sometimes the providers will recommend like an amniocentesis
• 13:52
  or ACVS, which is another form of genetic testing.
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  And sometimes that that doesn't need to be done emergently.
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  Sometimes like parents just need to go home and think about what
• 14:06
  that information would mean for them, if it would be meaningful
• 14:10
  in like future decision making. And I always try and give the
• 14:16
  patients space when they're in the clinic to think about that.
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  But sometimes they don't understand, like this is an an
• 14:22
  emergency. You don't need to do it today.
• 14:25
  And I think going home and sleeping on it and thinking
• 14:29
  about what it would mean for your care, Like, is it going to
• 14:31
  change anything for you? Is it going to cause more worry?
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  Are there other tests that are less invasive that could also
• 14:39
  give you answers? And those are all like good
• 14:42
  questions to be able to ask your provider, but you might not be
• 14:46
  able to think of them right away.
• 14:47
  Yes, especially in those moments when you're really spiraling,
• 14:51
  like you're really thinking it's overwhelming.
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  You're hearing different things that are scary and potentially
• 14:57
  could you know, lead to something else.
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  And sometimes, you know, having more education, you do you want
• 15:05
  that or sometimes you don't. And I think it, you know, based
• 15:07
  on patient to patient. But in those moments when
• 15:10
  someone is looking For more information or trying to
• 15:13
  understand so that they can make the best decision for
• 15:16
  themselves, is, is crucial. And you know, hearing it
• 15:20
  different ways presented, even sometimes I know in our moments,
• 15:24
  I needed things said four different ways and they were
• 15:27
  saying the exact same thing. But it was because I was so like
• 15:31
  I was trying to focus. And it's really hard in those
• 15:33
  moments to actually do that. It's like, did I hear you?
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  Like I, I heard you. I just, I'm not listening.
• 15:38
  I can't like process it. And so then can you repeat that
• 15:42
  or can you say that again? And you know, having that
• 15:45
  though, to be able to then take it and sit with it and not
• 15:48
  feeling rushed in those amendments because a lot of
• 15:51
  times, you know, we hear that in support group from others who
• 15:54
  they're just feel like a number and it's not just a number to
• 15:57
  them, it's them and their baby. Right, right.
• 16:00
  Yeah. Taking that time, you know, can
• 16:03
  really bring Peace of Mind. Either way, you might decide,
• 16:06
  like, this is absolutely something I want done.
• 16:09
  I want it done as soon as possible.
• 16:11
  I want to know everything about it.
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  Or you may say, you know, this is not really going to give me
• 16:16
  any information. I'm not going to do anything
• 16:18
  differently, but it gives me time.
• 16:21
  Right. Yeah.
• 16:21
  And not rush phenom. Yeah, that's huge.
• 16:24
  Yeah, unless it is a rush situation.
• 16:26
  But educating them on that, saying this is something that we
• 16:28
  do need to decide pretty immediately.
• 16:30
  So let's talk through everything together or this is, you know,
• 16:34
  something that but that's so important.
• 16:36
  Savannah. Yeah.
• 16:37
  Yeah, asking like when do I need to make this decision by?
• 16:40
  Gas. You know, you know, how long can
• 16:45
  I wait? Those are those are questions
• 16:48
  that any provider should be able to, to answer.
• 16:51
  They can give the recommendation if it's, you know, a true
• 16:54
  emergency, they may say, I think you or you know, your baby's
• 16:59
  life are at risk right now. And, you know, obviously that
• 17:04
  changes everything, but sometimes you need to to hear
• 17:11
  when it's an emergency and when it's not an emergency because
• 17:14
  like when you find out new information, everything might
• 17:17
  feel like an emergency. And if you don't have to make
• 17:19
  these decisions emergently, that can really help like process
• 17:26
  and, you know, help with your own Peace of Mind.
• 17:31
  So for sure, you know, bringing people with you to the hospital
• 17:35
  so that they can also ask those questions is helpful because
• 17:40
  sometimes you're just you're only hearing pieces of what the
• 17:46
  provider is saying. Because there are certain things
• 17:49
  that are like sticking out to you and you know, somebody else
• 17:53
  might be able to hear it differently or might be able to
• 17:57
  ask the questions that they know that you would want answered.
• 18:01
  So, you know, making sure that you can bring somebody with you.
• 18:05
  If you're not able to bring somebody with you, having
• 18:07
  somebody on speakerphone or you know, a lot of insurance
• 18:11
  companies are also like covering doulas.
• 18:15
  Now I'm seeing a lot more doulas in clinics.
• 18:17
  So having somebody there that can advocate for you when you're
• 18:22
  unable to really speak what you want is helpful.
• 18:27
  Yes, absolutely. Having that support person, if
• 18:30
  it's not your partner, if it's not some, just someone that you
• 18:33
  can trust, even if it is outside and doulas, you know, being
• 18:36
  educated on both navigating the hospital and all the dynamics
• 18:40
  there, but then understanding your birth plan and being like
• 18:43
  someone that's kind of removed emotionally from everything can
• 18:47
  be so important and imperative in those moments.
• 18:50
  Yeah, for sure, yeah. And having them, you know, with
• 18:54
  you prenatally as well as in the hospital can really help.
• 18:59
  You know, it's not just about like being there at delivery,
• 19:04
  but along the way because you know, that's sometimes the point
• 19:08
  when you know decisions are needing to be made is before you
• 19:11
  even get to. Delivery, absolutely, yeah.
• 19:15
  Yeah. That sounds great, Yeah.
• 19:17
  And let's talk about navigating hospitals and providers.
• 19:22
  You know, especially teaching hospitals can feel very
• 19:25
  overwhelming. There's like interns, residents,
• 19:28
  attendings, nurses, and so many people coming in and out of your
• 19:33
  room or especially if you're having to go into the hospital
• 19:37
  to be on bed rest or whatever that looks like.
• 19:39
  And try and understand who you ask questions to or who are the
• 19:42
  right people and who's going to be, you know, if you need to get
• 19:45
  surgery, like who are the ones that are going to be in the
• 19:47
  rooms with you? All of those things, like what
• 19:49
  should parents know about the hierarchy?
• 19:53
  OK. So that's a great question.
• 19:54
  Teaching hospitals often have a lot of like doctors in training.
• 19:59
  So they're called residents. Sometimes you'll hear them
• 20:02
  called interns. That's their first year.
• 20:05
  Then you'll also hear. You know, a junior and senior
• 20:09
  residents, they're there for typically four years as an
• 20:13
  OBGYN. The OBGYN residency is about
• 20:17
  four years and each of those residents are responsible for OB
• 20:22
  care. But the answer to an attending
• 20:25
  doctor and an attending OB is somebody that has been through
• 20:30
  medical school and is an obstetrician gynecologist and
• 20:35
  they have a board certification, they're fully trained and they
• 20:40
  are responsible for training the other doctors.
• 20:45
  And so sometimes you may be getting mixed information from
• 20:51
  different providers and you can always say, you know, I have
• 20:56
  some questions for the attending, you know, can can an
• 21:01
  attending round today so that we can talk about the plan of care
• 21:05
  going forward. I just want to hear their input.
• 21:09
  And it's not dismissing the less experienced providers, but you
• 21:14
  have the right to ask for that, to know if I need surgery, who's
• 21:19
  going to be performing my surgery?
• 21:21
  Is it, am I going to have students in there?
• 21:24
  Am I going to have medical students?
• 21:25
  Am I going to have, I mean, they're not going to be
• 21:28
  performing the surgery, but you know, who is responsible for my
• 21:31
  care? Who is going to be present?
• 21:34
  Those are all good things to like ask while you're in the
• 21:37
  hospital. Also, when you're in the
• 21:43
  hospital, understand that yes, there's people learning, but you
• 21:47
  don't need to be the Guinea pig. I, you know, I hate to, to say
• 21:53
  it like that, but they are learning something from you, but
• 21:58
  you don't have to say yes. And one example that I see
• 22:01
  frequently is cervical exams. And that can be really traumatic
• 22:06
  for people that have experienced loss or have experienced other
• 22:13
  traumatic events in their life. And it should always be asked.
• 22:17
  It should never, it should never just be said, hey, I'm going to
• 22:21
  check your cervix now. No, they should be asking for
• 22:26
  permission. Is it OK if I check your cervix?
• 22:29
  And if they say, you know, is it OK for me to check your cervix?
• 22:33
  And then is it OK for this other doctor to check after me?
• 22:37
  You don't have to say yes to that if it doesn't bother you
• 22:40
  and you're fine with it. But that's another story.
• 22:42
  But I always want patients to know that consent is, is still
• 22:46
  consent at the at the hospital. You have to be able to consent
• 22:51
  to your care and so asking permission is important for any
• 22:58
  time somebody is laying hands on you.
• 23:02
  Absolutely, yeah. And.
• 23:04
  When you're at an OB office or you're getting, you know,
• 23:06
  treated through your pregnancy and things, you know, they might
• 23:10
  have 8 or 10 doctors on the team and you don't know who's going
• 23:14
  to deliver you. So when you get there, you could
• 23:16
  just be meeting that OB that first time and they're getting
• 23:19
  ready and you don't know who is the OB, who's in charge.
• 23:22
  And if you're going into surgery with all the bright lights,
• 23:25
  laying on a table, not really seeing anything because the
• 23:28
  thing's up, it's really hard to know in those moments you know
• 23:31
  who is treating you. Yeah.
• 23:33
  And, and you're allowed to say like, can I talk to the
• 23:36
  attending that's going to be there for my delivery?
• 23:39
  And I mean, if you want to, you know, tell them anything about
• 23:45
  your previous experiences, That's, that's OK too, to like
• 23:48
  talk about what has happened and what you're worried about.
• 23:53
  If you don't want to share, you know, your, your previous
• 23:56
  trauma, that's OK too. Sometimes patients do like
• 23:59
  explaining that to their doctor, like, Hey, I just want you to
• 24:02
  know that this previous thing happened to me and this is what
• 24:08
  I'm concerned about happening again or going forward.
• 24:12
  And, and sometimes that's helpful as a provider to know
• 24:15
  because sometimes if you're coming new to our system and we
• 24:18
  don't have any documentation about what happened in your last
• 24:21
  delivery, we may not know like the underlying story or, or what
• 24:28
  what happened to you. And if you want to share that, I
• 24:34
  think, you know, sometimes that can be really important with
• 24:38
  your relationship with the provider so that they also have
• 24:41
  an understanding of what you've been through.
• 24:45
  And it, it kind of like humanizes people more
• 24:52
  understanding like what somebody has been through to get to where
• 24:58
  they are now. But by all means, if you aren't
• 25:01
  ready to Share your story, you don't have to Share your story.
• 25:03
  You can just say, I've had a previous traumatic experience or
• 25:06
  I, you know, and I don't want to talk about it.
• 25:08
  But sometimes sharing what has happened with your new provider
• 25:12
  can can help establish trust with your new provider as well,
• 25:16
  because they can understand what you've been through and they may
• 25:19
  take different steps. They may explain things
• 25:21
  differently. They may make sure that they're
• 25:25
  talking more than like what they normally would when they're
• 25:29
  explaining what's happening in the in the situation.
• 25:34
  Sometimes you have a provider that you've seen your whole
• 25:37
  pregnancy and you know that they're not going to be
• 25:42
  delivering you for whatever reason.
• 25:46
  And so you've like, you know, built a relationship with them.
• 25:50
  You can ask them, you know, for recommendations for like maybe
• 25:58
  building a birth plan together. Like if it's a provider that you
• 26:01
  trust, you're like, you could bring in your birth plan
• 26:04
  prenatally and just say, Hey, I, I trust you.
• 26:07
  I know that you're not going to be there for my delivery, but
• 26:08
  can we talk about what my preferences are and so that they
• 26:12
  can be like communicated effectively to the next
• 26:14
  provider? Sometimes that's really helpful.
• 26:18
  And having that when a patient enters the system and, and you
• 26:25
  know, has like a medical record, having that birth plan in their
• 26:29
  medical record so that all the providers can see it even before
• 26:32
  they come in is helpful. That's usually scanned in and
• 26:36
  sometimes that can take like a week to get scanned into the
• 26:39
  medical record. So turning it in or reviewing it
• 26:42
  with your provider earlier in your pregnancy, you know, 30
• 26:46
  something weeks before you deliver can can be helpful.
• 26:51
  Having that established in place like a catastrophic birth plan.
• 26:56
  And I had never thought of that before, but I, it really got me
• 27:00
  thinking about like these, you know, families that have
• 27:03
  experienced loss and like their brain always goes to like, worst
• 27:07
  case scenario, like, what would I want to happen?
• 27:09
  Because that's a trauma response.
• 27:12
  You know, for sure after you've already experienced something,
• 27:15
  you're afraid of it happening again and you're afraid of
• 27:20
  losing that autonomy in the situation and like the control.
• 27:25
  And so it was a really interesting episode about
• 27:29
  putting on paper like, who should make choices for you in
• 27:33
  an emergency? Who should be updated?
• 27:35
  Do you want pictures or video taken?
• 27:38
  If you're not available to do that, are there any spiritual or
• 27:42
  cultural wishes that you want the staff to honor?
• 27:47
  You can address like emergency surgery or hysterectomy in
• 27:51
  there. You can talk about like blood
• 27:53
  transfusion decisions or preferences.
• 27:56
  If you're in the ICU and you're intubated, do you want to be
• 28:00
  pumped for breast milk? Like making that choice ahead of
• 28:04
  time for what happens to your body.
• 28:07
  Although it's like very, you know, a traumatic and sometimes
• 28:10
  a triggering thing to think about.
• 28:13
  I can see how it would be beneficial to have it on paper
• 28:17
  and at least have that like clarity and and Peace of Mind
• 28:21
  that you're able to express your preferences ahead of time.
• 28:25
  I mean, I never ever want patients to have to use that,
• 28:28
  but sometimes saying if the worst thing happens, this is
• 28:34
  what I want, this is my, this is my preference.
• 28:36
  And I just thought that was kind of a, a cool take on it and and
• 28:40
  something that patients can do, you know, when their mind
• 28:43
  doesn't stop going to like worst case scenario.
• 28:47
  Especially when you've experienced, I know from
• 28:49
  personally, you know, going through loss and then getting
• 28:51
  pregnant again and pregnancy after loss.
• 28:54
  And it's hard not to go like you're saying, Savannah, to
• 28:56
  those extremes because you've already experienced one of the
• 29:00
  worst case scenario outcomes. Well, for a parent, you know,
• 29:02
  the worst case scenario. So if something were to happen
• 29:06
  in the next delivery, because it, you know, we already know it
• 29:09
  didn't go as planned the first time.
• 29:10
  So what does this look like? You know, and understanding that
• 29:14
  and then having your care team a part of it.
• 29:16
  So, you know, it's interesting because I know walking into
• 29:20
  before we delivered pregnancy after loss, saying to my
• 29:23
  husband, these are the things I wanted, but this is also an
• 29:25
  emotional experience for him. This is his baby, this is his
• 29:28
  wife on the table. So how can you know?
• 29:32
  And he might not be thinking in those moments or staying level
• 29:34
  headed either. So how can you do a better job
• 29:36
  of communicating that to your team?
• 29:39
  So if you are, if you have a great relationship with your
• 29:44
  doctor beforehand, they probably already know where your head is
• 29:47
  at with, you know, this next pregnancy and everything that
• 29:50
  you're, you know, going through and dealing with and the, and
• 29:53
  the trauma that you've experienced.
• 29:54
  And you can explain to them like I've kind of made a plan in
• 29:57
  case, you know, things don't go as planned again.
• 30:01
  Can you make sure this is in my medical record and that it's
• 30:03
  noted that it's in there so that people know to look for it?
• 30:07
  If you are admitted to the hospital for an induction of
• 30:11
  Labor that you're, you know, very nervous about or that you
• 30:19
  have, you know, some other admission to the hospital that
• 30:21
  you're going to be there for a prolonged period of time, If
• 30:24
  there is a nurse that you feel connected with, you can always
• 30:29
  ask them to like, can you help be my, like advocate for this?
• 30:34
  A lot of times, you know, labor can be long and exhausting, and
• 30:40
  you're already maybe emotionally exhausted by the time you even
• 30:44
  get to the delivery room. And so asking the nurse to be
• 30:50
  your advocate and saying like, hey, this is how I want things
• 30:54
  to go down and these are my preferences.
• 30:56
  Can we talk about it? Can we go through my birth plan
• 31:01
  like point by point, like right when you know, when you get
• 31:04
  there to to say, like I this will help me at ease it it will
• 31:09
  bring me, you know, some peace. And nurses know that when
• 31:13
  birthing people feel safe, they're able to to to give birth
• 31:20
  better. It just it when you feel safe,
• 31:23
  you have a better experience, your body can do what it needs
• 31:28
  to do when you feel safe. We don't want our patients to
• 31:32
  feel triggered. And if there's something that
• 31:35
  we're talking about or doing that makes you feel a certain
• 31:38
  way, we want you to tell us so that you feel safe the whole
• 31:42
  time you're in our care. Sometimes families mean well and
• 31:48
  they want to be there to support you because they know that
• 31:51
  you've had, you know, this traumatic experience.
• 31:54
  And so you've got, like, sisters, friends, cousins,
• 31:58
  whoever you want, you know, to be in your delivery the second
• 32:01
  time around. And that can be really
• 32:04
  overwhelming for a lot of people.
• 32:07
  And it's hard sometimes for patients to feel not overwhelmed
• 32:14
  when there's so many voices in the room and you know, people
• 32:17
  forget that this is like a life changing experience for you.
• 32:23
  Like you're, you're birthing a baby.
• 32:26
  It's not like a party. You know, sometimes they're in
• 32:29
  there just like eating and loud and you know, and it's, it's
• 32:33
  hard to focus on yourself and and your baby and you know how
• 32:41
  you want your birth outcome to be.
• 32:44
  So sometimes I'll, when I was a labor and delivery nurse, I had
• 32:49
  a code word with my patients when I would admit them,
• 32:53
  especially if they had, you know, previous trauma or they or
• 32:58
  they had shared with me. Like I'm really overwhelmed just
• 33:01
  being here. I'm just, I'm scared this is
• 33:05
  this is something that, you know, like I'm really struggling
• 33:07
  with. I would say, what is your least
• 33:10
  favorite juice? And most people would say
• 33:13
  cranberry or orange. And I would say, ask me for some
• 33:18
  cranberry juice and I'll know that's our code word.
• 33:20
  I'll just say, OK, I'll go and I'll pretend to look and I'll
• 33:24
  say, unfortunately we don't have any cranberry juice.
• 33:26
  But I do need everybody to step out because I've got to, I've
• 33:30
  got to do an assessment. I've got to take care of some
• 33:32
  things. So I'm just going to ask you
• 33:34
  guys to to step out to the hallway and that will be kind of
• 33:36
  like our code to like clear the room and regroup.
• 33:40
  Or sometimes if they don't want their family to step out, it can
• 33:45
  be like my code to just be like, all right, everybody like, let's
• 33:49
  calm down. Let's let's like take some time
• 33:52
  to just like relax. Mom here needs, you know, some
• 33:58
  some peace, some quiet. What can I do to help you relax
• 34:02
  here? Can I give you a back massage?
• 34:04
  Can I, you know, give you any like aromatherapy oils?
• 34:09
  What can I do to make this room more relaxing for you?
• 34:12
  And so sometimes people take a hint then, but having kind of
• 34:15
  like a, a code with your nurse can help because they're not
• 34:20
  afraid of family. I mean, it's some it's hard to
• 34:25
  to ask your family to step out sometimes because.
• 34:32
  You don't hurt feelings. You don't hurt feelings, but
• 34:34
  also like it's hard to advocate for yourself.
• 34:37
  And they're supposed to be there advocating for you, but they're
• 34:39
  not really understanding or they maybe lost sight of, hey, this,
• 34:45
  this is this is triggering for the person I'm here for.
• 34:51
  And so having that that relationship with your nurse can
• 34:55
  really be beneficial. Oh.
• 34:58
  That's great, Savannah. Yeah, Thank you.
• 35:02
  Is there anything that you would love to leave our listeners
• 35:06
  with? I know we went over so much.
• 35:08
  This has been so educational and I can't thank you enough for
• 35:11
  being on here and would love to know, you know what you would
• 35:14
  love for everybody to to know. You can ask questions, you can
• 35:21
  ask for space, you can set limits.
• 35:25
  Saying no is a valid option. Of course.
• 35:29
  If you're saying no, I want to make sure that you're, you know,
• 35:33
  informed with what you're saying no to, making sure that you
• 35:38
  understand the risks, the benefits, the alternatives.
• 35:41
  And if you do, no is an option. And then just remember, your
• 35:47
  lived experience gives you insight that matters.
• 35:50
  Trust your gut. If you're not vibing with your
• 35:53
  nurse, you can always ask for another one.
• 35:57
  Your safety during your hospitalization and your peace
• 36:03
  matters. So protect your peace and and
• 36:07
  don't feel afraid to advocate for yourself.
• 36:11
  We want that for you. And if there's any way that you
• 36:16
  feel like your nurse can help, you can ask for it.
• 36:20
  Thank you, Savannah. Today's conversation with
• 36:24
  Savannah reminds us of something so important.
• 36:26
  Your voice matters, whether it's in the hospital room, at the
• 36:29
  doctor's office. After an unimaginable loss,
• 36:32
  parents have rights and parents deserve to be heard.
• 36:35
  But this doesn't just end with knowing your rights.
• 36:37
  Healing also comes from action, from honoring your baby,
• 36:40
  speaking your story out loud, and building a world where every
• 36:43
  loss is recognized. At Chasing the Rainbows, we
• 36:46
  believe every baby loss matters and every family deserves
• 36:49
  support. If you are ready to take the
• 36:51
  next step, we invite you to join us.
• 36:53
  Volunteer your time. Host an awareness event in your
• 36:55
  community. Share your baby's story with
• 36:57
  courage and compassion. Together, we can break the
• 37:00
  silence around all these types of baby losses.
• 37:03
  To learn more and get involved, visit babylossawareness.org.
• 37:06
  There you'll find resources, ways to honor your baby, and
• 37:08
  opportunities to be a part of a growing movement.
• 37:11
  Because when we stand together, no parent has to grieve alone.
• 37:14
  Thank you so much again Savannah for everything.
• 37:16
  Yeah, thanks for having me.