Latest / The Sports Card CEO Podcast / Episode 16, S2: Special Guest Brent Weyer | Inside a Top Collector’s Investment Strategy

Transcript

Episode 16, S2: Special Guest Brent Weyer | Inside a Top Collector’s Investment Strategy · The Sports Card CEO Podcast

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of the sports card CEO.
• 0:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is late Sunday night.
• 0:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're not in our normal recording time.
• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are burning the midnight oil.
• 0:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have Baba joining us live.
• 0:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Baba, we are in the same state right now.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: We are.
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's odd.
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're in the same state, but we're a long way away.
• 0:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: we are very long way away.
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: You are in the western part of North Carolina.
• 0:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, we are down east, but I know you and your family snuck away for a few days up in the mountains of North Carolina, but we have a very special guest tonight on this episode.
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm telling you guys, I'm probably as excited for this episode as I've been for an episode in a while, because there's a backstory here.
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be a lot of fun.
• 0:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: He did it a 47D season and a season of life in the other and naturely baseball history from one of the co-natured.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a drive right on the panel.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Evan Kroner is amazing.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is happy.
• 1:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're so guys, my trout, and you listen to the sports car, C.E.E.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: with current Buffland hand.
• 1:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so just hang tight boys and girls.
• 1:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna have a really good one today on the SportsCard CEO.
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I appreciate y'all tuning in.
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: SportsCard CEO is the official collectibles podcast of just baseball.
• 1:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: As we always do, we like to update you guys, kind of keep it real with a week in the life of the CEOs.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Bubba was been going on your world.
• 1:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Man, I tell you, I don't know, really, this last week, I mean, I've been up here in the mountains the last three or four days, so it's kind of had me in a total different mindset, and I kind of relaxed, I'm kind of vegged out, the brains kind of not work in the same way right now, so it's kind of nice, so that's what we wanted, we wanted to get away and so,
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're up here in the mountains.
• 2:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Got a little fire brewing over here.
• 2:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll fire brewing.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Got a little herbal tea going.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, just staying what we've been doing.
• 2:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Man, staying the course, buying a lot, staying really, really busy on that front.
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, how little love.
• 2:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: like flu action come through the family um i don't know if y'all have that up there but man it's like everybody in Georgia right now has the flu i mean we my son had it then another son got it and i had it a couple weeks ago then got it a guy like a second bout of it my dad got it my sister's got it so just kind of everybody getting well i think it's kind of the theme of uh the Wilson household right now and that's kind of what this trip has been man to get away and just uh
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of just unwind so we're gone for two more days and we'll come back Tuesday and get back at it.
• 2:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, just charging the batteries for what's about to come and we've been talking about buying, you know, and you and I've been doing that together and we've been running this race and just buy buy buy and man here it is all the sudden.
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I said it like a week ago, I said man.
• 3:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's just not that much inventory.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, all of a sudden, here comes some inventory.
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, this is when it gets fun here the next six weeks.
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: You start see some prices pop up.
• 3:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: For example, Michelle O'Mayer Gold is on auction right now that I saw.
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, the most recent orange, I think went for $5,100 back like two weeks ago.
• 3:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: The Gold 95 with three days left, already a 16, 25.
• 3:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: We talked about how many fish are in the pond, looking to buy these guards every single day.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's gonna get a little bit better here up to open in day.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm excited about that.
• 3:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love this time of year, baseball's in the air, but that's what's been going on me.
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm glad you guys are feeling better.
• 3:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Question, how is my great state of North Carolina treating the Wilson household?
• 3:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Have you guys had a decent time in the mountains?
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: We have, man.
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Today was a rain day.
• 3:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it was, I don't know if it rained up there for you, but I mean, it rained here all day, today.
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I was like, man, I should have had a beard for this episode.
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of like, should have grown the beard out.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Cause all I've done today is pretty much burn firewood in California around the scaven.
• 4:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it would have been nice, man.
• 4:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes it's homo-whites, I was like, you know,
• 4:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: a couple of days like this.
• 4:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I should have started writing a book or something.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but we enjoy the mountains and North Carolina as well.
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, we're down on the coast, but about six hours west, the Blue Ridge Mountains is a great little getaway spots.
• 4:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad you guys have had a good time.
• 4:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, in Hamhouse Land, we finished up basketball season for Little Matt, which was, you know, eventful his first high school Javie basketball season.
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Came to a close on Friday night.
• 4:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we had a good college friend come and stay with us after the weekends.
• 4:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've had some guests in town.
• 4:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, again, and the personal front on our business side have still been trying to get up and running with the year we had a new agent with early hope that we hired and so that's been super busy like I said a lot of margin or not not a lot of margin on the card front I'm really excited I had a I mentioned this on episode a couple weeks ago, you know, I've been kind of keeping an eye out for really rare low population cow rip can stuff mid 90s inserts.
• 5:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I had the Legacy Collection Rose Zero come in, it finally came in, I had bought it and put it in the PSA vault and then I, you know, had a ship from the vault that got in this week and just a great card, only four copies, great with PSA and just I love it.
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like super cool.
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it feels like it's a good addition to the RIPKING collection.
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then also got the 1998 RIPKING Platinum Medallion PSA 10.
• 5:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: pop two that came in.
• 5:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: So just some cool stuff on the personal front for me.
• 5:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then a little side note on a buying front, actually bought the 1985 Michael Jordan Nike promo card.
• 5:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was a super fast card.
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was actually the first image I believe of Jordan wearing the air Jordan number ones, the breads and of course it's non licensed.
• 5:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we didn't have Chicago jersey on, but it's the classic jumpman image.
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: and so I got that one in.
• 5:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I scoop that off an auction.
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a fresh graded PSA.
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I had a lot of cool stuff like that coming this week.
• 5:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, we've still been kind of gearing up for baseball season, getting ready for the inventory, been moving through some stuff, and kind of starting the target that next guy, you know, who's in the wings?
• 6:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where's the value?
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where's the opportunity right now?
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Spring training for our listeners, you know, that we follow baseball,
• 6:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Every single day you go on Instagram, you know, whether it be MLB pipeline or different teams, all the players are starting to arrive at camp and they're starting to put out reels.
• 6:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so every team, every player starting to get the little hype train going as we go on and spring training, they're showing videos of pictures throw and showing videos of
• 6:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: hitters taken BP.
• 6:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's only going to continue as we move into opening day with games, which actually I believe when this episode airs on Wednesday, it'll be the first minor league or excuse me, major league opening spring training game.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty sure.
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it is, uh, it is upon us friends and we appreciate you guys tuning in.
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And quick quick quick quick question.
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you were talking about the 80 stuff and 90 stuff for our listeners.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you remember the Gatorade bottles when you would?
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know you're like 15 years older than me.
• 7:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: So you may not remember when we were in different generations here.
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: But do you remember when you opened a Gatorade bottle in under it?
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: You could like win something, you could like get open it?
• 7:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, no one ever wins anything, right?
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: You might win like a free Gatorade or something.
• 7:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: You may let back in as a kid you're always excited.
• 7:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: So dude, I won.
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I didn't even know where I had won at the time.
• 7:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I won this thing.
• 7:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, like Michael Jordan collectors kid or something.
• 7:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I won these Michael Jordan, like signed Gatorade cards.
• 7:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have like every year, like 80 something, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, all these years and it signed like an oversized cards.
• 7:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: I still have them.
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I do.
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: I still have my house are sitting in my basement in my office and you know I looked him up a while back and I was like, man, these things gotta be worth some money now and they really weren't trained for all that much.
• 7:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: And there was only like 50 of them in that series.
• 8:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm just curious if one of our other listeners has that set or one that set hit me up because that's uh, that isn't a stall to me.
• 8:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's still sitting on my desk.
• 8:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to fall over sell it because it's like the first thing ever one of my life.
• 8:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's kind of cool.
• 8:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I got to see a photo
• 8:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like my will.
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll share it with you.
• 8:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: We need to post that to the sports card CEO Instagram channel and a quick plug before we bring on our guest.
• 8:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you guys are not following us on Instagram, please do on the sports card CEO on Instagram.
• 8:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Also, follow us on YouTube.
• 8:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're streaming on iTunes as well as Spotify.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Give us a like, follow, and leave us a review.
• 8:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: We appreciate you guys tuning in.
• 8:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: So without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, we want to bring on to the show a very special friend and this is none other than
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Brent, where?
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Brent is a good buddy and this is kind of an interesting moment for the three of us to be on the show together.
• 8:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll let Bubba take this thing off because this is like the culmination of like this has been happening for a long time.
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: So for all of you guys that are listening to this show and you've been listening for a while, this is the guy right here that I had to learn my chops from.
• 9:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the guy absolutely white me with the floor.
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: When I first got in the hobby again, about five years ago, met him on eBay, found some cards that I liked had.
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thankfully, I did meet him because he took me to the cleaners four, five, six, seven times in a row.
• 9:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: We became buddies and he taught me a lot, getting in the space.
• 9:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I had to learn, I had to learn through paying him.
• 9:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I told him that the other day.
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I said, I had to pay you these premiums on these cards I'd bought from you.
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: But it taught me a lot and just for anybody listening, Brent is incredibly, incredibly sharp guy.
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: One of the sharpest guys in the hobby, one of the best guys in the hobby, incredibly knowledgeable, but I'll tell you this, there's nobody that I've ever met, more passionate about the cards themselves.
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, when Brent sees the cards, he sees art, and he's got a really good eye for this stuff.
• 9:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Brent, we've been talking about it for a year, have me on the show,
• 10:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: could have been a better episode.
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is kind of the ham brunt episode today.
• 10:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to be kind of back here for emotional support because this is kind of out of my lane, but I'm going to be in here and kind of chirping where I can, but I love having you on it.
• 10:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey man, I appreciate the introduction.
• 10:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is a lot of fun being on here with you guys.
• 10:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've been wanting to be on for a while.
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this is this is a really cool moment.
• 10:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Boba, I will just say those are premium cards that you're paying premium prices for.
• 10:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So
• 10:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I used to be able to look at your collection and I knew what card you bought before you met me and what card you bought after you met me.
• 10:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this is a lot of fun.
• 10:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's been really cool to see you rise in the hobby man.
• 10:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're like one of the great guys in the space.
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, not everybody's always trying to be out in the limelight and trying to be on the red carpet and trying to be out there all the time.
• 10:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like one of those guys that was behind the scenes and a big, big fish.
• 10:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is really cool to see you guys having your own podcasts.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I appreciate being on.
• 10:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, I know that Brent is probably enjoying this episode more than anybody because like Brent, we have these backstory with Brent, you know what I mean?
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like the guy.
• 11:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's he's enjoying his white wine out there on the West Coast, but, you know, he's, I will tell this too, Baba.
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can, I can, like, I can say this with humility and honesty that Brent's the only dude that ever cooked us in cards too in a loving way.
• 11:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And for our listeners, for our loyal listeners, when I've told the story of us buying the tray turner orange in the World Baseball class, but that card was purchased from none other than Deep Value Investor on Instagram.
• 11:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Mr. Brent Wairs.
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not that.
• 11:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine that.
• 11:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you got a killing here.
• 11:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, Brett, here's the positive.
• 11:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to really learn more about the space by really kind of getting your shop's lick for a couple of call brand, let me know if it'll be so worth it because you're going to learn a lot from it, a problem.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: What's so great about it is, is that, you know, I love the hobby for the connections and the community that it builds.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Brett, we didn't know you.
• 12:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: We happened to, I think, little Matt saw that you were, you know, posted that Turner back in the day.
• 12:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: We ended up buying it from, you know, getting vouches like, who's this dude with this Turner orange?
• 12:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we, you know, we paid you and of course got the card overnight and then ended up meeting you at the national the following year with Bubba.
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And y'all were like hanging out.
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was like, oh, you're your deep value investor, you know, and then we got to hang out with you again at fanatic space last year.
• 12:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: So give us a little bit of background for our listeners, Brent about your kind of hobby journey.
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: How you got into it and that connection and then we'll kind of dive into today's episode.
• 12:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 12:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was obsessed as a kid with cards.
• 12:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was a kid that was setting up card stands in the cold of the sack.
• 12:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was the kid that was selling cards at garage fills, absolutely obsessed around late eighties early nineties.
• 12:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: My son was about seven years old in 2017 when I started dabbling back into cards again.
• 12:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wish out of bought a lot more cards at the time, but at the time I was just for fun to open up packs with him.
• 12:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was Mahalm's rookie year, which is interesting because we created a couple little binders, and it's just for fun.
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was actually an optic Mahalm's rookie card in there that I got graded and sold for quite a bit of money at the time.
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even think about it, but we're just shopping at Target.
• 13:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've worked in medical device sales for a long time and I was just really bored with that space.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't passionate about it, it wasn't what excited me.
• 13:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I started getting interested in sports cards as, you know, in 2020, 2021, when sports cards started really blowing up again.
• 13:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I just thought about, like, what if I brought in an investment, strad strategic way of looking at sports cards?
• 13:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like,
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, not just looking at it like a hobby, but what if I started looking at it like an opportunity and alternative asset, apply the principles that I use in investing in the financial space into the sports card space.
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm obsessed with sports, obsessed with cards, love psychology, love people, and it's just really made a lot of sense.
• 13:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it started out small, started out, and it kind of slowly grew, but
• 13:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just really had an eye for identifying those apex cards that are important and that are special cards that people will care about over the long term.
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I still remember when I realized 99% of cards are gonna have little to know value over time.
• 14:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was like a moment for me, and I would share that and people would get really mad at me for sharing that, but I just there's just not a lot of cards over the long term that are significant cards and it just changed how I started collecting it changed how I started looking at cards how I started educating clients I started taking on clients buying selling cards.
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, like what Bubba was saying, and even you, like, I wouldn't just sell somebody a card.
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can ask Bubba this.
• 14:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, I would chat with him day after day after day after day after day about cards.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I've just obsessed with card and, and identifying great cards out there and I really do believe that he learned a lot from our conversations and I learned a lot from my conversations with him.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was just never really transactional.
• 14:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what's been really fun about it.
• 14:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 14:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'd buy and sell a card and sure I could make some money doing that, but I always knew that
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just, I love too much about it like he was saying.
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I see him as art.
• 15:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I love your philosophy here and I have so many questions.
• 15:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll kind of start to dive into this.
• 15:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: But one of the things that's really curious to me is, you know, since I've known you, which has been, it's so funny coming up, um, bring time of, what are we in?
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: 26, so 25, 24, 23.
• 15:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think, spring time of 23 is when we purchase that turner from you.
• 15:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So three years ago.
• 15:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I know you since then, kind of the distance, right?
• 15:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And your card collection, this stuff that you're owning and holding now is very different than what you owned and hold then.
• 15:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: So like you've gotten the stones to go big as your portfolio has gotten bigger.
• 15:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and then that's super interesting to me as well.
• 15:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: So just a prefaceist folks, like, you know, Brent, what's your current role now within the industry?
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Are you still with?
• 15:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I was with fanatics for the last two years, and now I'm branching out into my own thing.
• 15:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be around strategy and portfolio management and looking at the space less as a gamble and more into a long-term investment.
• 16:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I have a lot of information that best way to find these deep value investors on Instagram.
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: But do you have any any kind of lead off questions here for Brent because I have quite a few and I want to make you know, I mean, I definitely do what's intriguing to me about cards is even though I was active in cards and I grew up watching 90s baseball 80s baseball just like you guys.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, and the early 2000s, there was this weird time and cards where card die you kind of went nowhere, right?
• 16:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Everything was mass produced and there was just this dead period in the card zone.
• 16:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: And what's been interesting is now Brent, you're kind of like reintroducing me back to some of these, these cards, early 2000s that I really didn't even know exist.
• 16:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's stuff that are truly the grails.
• 16:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so I want to be educated on that because I really spent the majority of my time getting back into the space
• 16:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: more current stuff, you know, and obviously now, even beyond current, I'm looking at prospects and kind of looking out ahead of what's to come.
• 17:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm just curious when we get into this stuff like, you know, you get into these PMG green PMGs and all this other stuff that's out there.
• 17:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: How do you?
• 17:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, what's the best place for someone to start there?
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, how does it, like, someone like myself that wants to get in that?
• 17:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, is it truly just watching these options?
• 17:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, like, what would be your best advice for people that are trying to get into that?
• 17:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: And how do you even come to find out what's the best out there of these years?
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because I genuinely have no clue.
• 17:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 17:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And though those are great questions, I think one of the one thing that's really important is to understand the significance of sets in which sets are the sets that people care about.
• 17:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: One of the easiest ways to do that really is to look at basketball.
• 17:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of the late 90s stuff like you're referring to PNGs and essential credentials in rubies, the basis of the collectors that that collect that is basketball focused.
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if you ever want to just look and see like what's the most significant sets in the hobby, type in Michael Jordan on card ladder and sort by highest price and you'll get a great idea of what the most significant sets are in hobby and then you can translate that over the baseball.
• 18:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So one of the things that's different about baseball those, for example,
• 18:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: 1897, I'm showing you a Shaquille in the old, the red PMG.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: 1897 had the red PMG, embaskable and football, and then they also had the green PMG.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: But there was no baseball.
• 18:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, 1997 had no baseball PMGs.
• 18:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's really important to understand that the first year PMGs PMG is in baseball is 1998.
• 18:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's where you see this kangaroo junior, the champ, 1998, Scott that scope looked to it.
• 18:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Those are serial number to 50.
• 18:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what's really good to understand is like, that's the first year PNG for baseball.
• 18:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was no red and green like there was basketball and football.
• 18:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you can quickly apply that, you know, that logic and no, okay, so for baseball, one of the most significant important sets I've ever created was the 1998 PNG.
• 18:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, so Brent real quick.
• 19:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the first card you showed was the red PNG, Shaquille O'Neal.
• 19:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: What's it's a rough value on that card today?
• 19:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the red should kill Neil PNG, that's around $40,000, $50,000.
• 19:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: This depends on the grade, right?
• 19:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And these are serial number to 90.
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the greens are serial number to 10.
• 19:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in football, there are serial number to 15 in the green and to 135 in the red.
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the interesting thing is baseball didn't have them.
• 19:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this is Marvin Harrison.
• 19:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, sorry, I couldn't see it.
• 19:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Marvin Harrison, what's the value on the Harrison right now?
• 19:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bob Hart.
• 19:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: 25.
• 19:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: 25.
• 19:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 19:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 19:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then so you showed the 98.
• 19:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: King Griffey Jr. PMG.
• 19:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a BGS none.
• 19:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is that would you have there?
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 19:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sick card.
• 19:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: What's the street value on that card?
• 19:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: About 75,000 75.
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 19:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: I wrote a quick question.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: This may be a dumb question, but, you know, we talked about this the other day, Brad.
• 19:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, or just because I mean, there's a lot of people that are probably listening to this that are just like me, and there's maybe some that that are like you to that understand the 90 stuff better, but I think there's a lot that don't so, but I know a lot of us all had before a card ladder, we have the old Beckett book, right, so back in the Beckett book days, what would have, what would that card like the griffy in those days, you know, if you got 50 cents a dollar, $5, $10, $20 back in those days, you thought you were rich,
• 20:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: What would a card like that rookie card back in those days?
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: What do you think the value of something like that would have been in the Beckett book days?
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Realistic, because you had said to me like it was so rare to pull those, because there were so many cases back in those times to be able to get one of those cards.
• 20:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what, what I don't think people really truly have a grasp on is the difference in rarity and scarcity of these cards versus a current modern market.
• 20:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So in the current modern market, you can open up every single pack will have a serial number card in it.
• 20:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Every pack used to open up cases to get a serial number card cases.
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when I look at a red shack, the NG serial number to 90 is not the equivalent of a card serial number to 90 today, not even close, I mean, these, these, these cards are like cards of like
• 21:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: mythical legends, like people never seen them before.
• 21:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is like legendary tales of someone seeing a PMG, kangryphi juniors, she'll number the 50.
• 21:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't like today and so I think one of the things that people coming into the space now miss is they just look at it and they say, oh, that's a griffy to 50.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not that rare.
• 21:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it was a very different time in a different space, and it's not even, it's not comparing the same thing at all.
• 21:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just very like this Marvin Harrison to 15, I would take over almost every single one of one today.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's just a very different ballpark.
• 21:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, how many one of ones are there today of the card that comes out?
• 21:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: That could be 121 of ones versus then.
• 21:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was just, you know, like you just never saw these cards.
• 21:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I remember one of the things Brent, we were sitting down at the Javit Center at Fanatic's Fest.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: You and I just chatting about some stuff.
• 22:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember you telling me then you were really looking and starting to look at the PMGs and whatnot.
• 22:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember then, I think you said the shack was probably 25, 30k.
• 22:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, that card's what two X since last year, basically.
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 22:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
• 22:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I, you know, a card like a chicille needle, like it's it's just slow and steady and up to the right.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a lot of these cards are it's they're they're just special cards.
• 22:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 22:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: For sure.
• 22:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, one of the interesting pieces is for our listeners is when you really start to get into the hobby and you get into the nuance of the hobby, right?
• 22:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's so much of the modern hobby that's driven by height, right?
• 22:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're open and boxes and you're hitting serial numbers and it's upcoming prospect cards, whatever.
• 22:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's fun.
• 22:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of energy around it.
• 22:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: But if you really look at the card market, I like to look at it like real estate, okay?
• 22:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: They only make so much real estate, okay?
• 22:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so when you look at what drives the value of real estate, I sold real estate for years and they always say what location location location.
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so they only make so many, you know, ocean front homes.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: They only make so many, you know, homes in certain areas, whatever.
• 23:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: So when you look at a house in, of course, where a bubble is in Highlands, North Carolina, versus, you know, Orange County County, California, versus Long Island, or whatever, the location of that might be the same house.
• 23:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: the location of that house is going to drive the value of it.
• 23:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So when you look at cards, you have to look out in the same way.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're dealing with an asset that is a limited population run.
• 23:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when you have to supply and demand applying to that same thing, there's just not any of these cards available.
• 23:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of these cards you're talking about Brent, you don't see them come up for sale, but maybe once every few years.
• 23:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you're dealing with a highly scarce asset.
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Plus, there are collectors that want to complete the sets of those highly desirable sets.
• 23:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that natural kind of interest will talk a little bit about kind of the scarcity-rarity thing and set completion and how that helps drive value.
• 23:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I'd say it like we're referring to with real estate and location, location would be the equivalent sports cards as the set.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of times, I tell people the sets more important than the player.
• 24:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot of people say player first, and of course, if you're talking about Michael Jordan to some degree.
• 24:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the most elite elite.
• 24:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the way I collected set first, I look at the set.
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I care way more about that.
• 24:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So for example, I'll show you, I brought this 1998 essential credentials now, Chipper Jones.
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is serial number six.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, he's got a 300, 400, 500 slash line.
• 24:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: One of 14 players that ever do that in baseball.
• 24:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: This card is numbered to six.
• 24:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the most significant Chipper Jones card that exists in the world because that sets the most collectible set.
• 24:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: The King Griffey Jr. in that says $200,000 for that same cards.
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, people coming into the space, they see the 89 Griffey upper deck, and they think like that's the card to get.
• 24:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm looking at what's the Beverly Hills of Sets?
• 24:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's essential credentials.
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the precious metal gyms.
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, what card player
• 24:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so that's the way I look at it.
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I know Bubba is a big, brave fan.
• 25:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I know he's a big first boom and fan.
• 25:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he understands that market really well.
• 25:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when I got this card, I was thinking, I don't think he understands the significance of, I have the best shipper Jones card in the world.
• 25:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think he really understands that.
• 25:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I wanted to come on here.
• 25:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I just think this category is so interesting for baseball specifically because of how popular first boom ends have been.
• 25:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Especially since 2016, I feel like 2016, you know, the Vlad year, the Soto year, like it really took off from there, Koenie 17, but, you know, there's a lot of opportunities where I feel like this is the house on the beach.
• 25:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like those are cool houses, but it's a different space.
• 25:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure, it takes it to an entirely different stratosphere, you know, something that I pulled out here.
• 25:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, for the collectors that do not understand what we're talking about, like you're getting a,
• 25:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: graduate level, you know, course in sports card investing.
• 25:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so you might have to break this down and go back and listen and slow down and understand the different sets and stuff because, you know, we tend to deal a lot in modern baseball and Bowman and so forth.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: But this is a very sophisticated, nuanced strategy into sports card investing that basically takes the first Bowman game and levels it up to an entirely different stratosphere.
• 26:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is one of the things that
• 26:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: the more complicated it is the better.
• 26:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm telling you, like you want complication.
• 26:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: It might seem at first like oh this is too much I don't want to think about this but the more complicated it is the more sophistication it takes to be able to dabble into that space yeah and that's where you want to be.
• 26:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to be in an overly simplified space so it might seem like a lot but it's not.
• 26:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's just a perfect time, Ham, when we talk about complication, we've got a ton of people on here, Brent, as you know.
• 26:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: The majority of the listeners here, we do we are in that modern day, Bowman, first, prospecting, last 10.
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think this is another area that Brent, you honestly, with the first guide that ever taught me about serial numbers and being able to look from color to color in the multiples.
• 27:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: like that wasn't it mean to be honest like when we first started doing business together probably almost five years ago yet the multiplier for obviously in place but they're not like they are today they're there today they are discussed they are more widely talked about than they were five years ago and but what I find interesting about it is
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: how still it's different from some people to another person.
• 27:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: So one, you may say something today, that may be different than what I currently think, or have maybe say something different than you.
• 27:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: And what's interesting too, sometimes is how people are valuing the grading of the card.
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I know that's an old other topic we can get to.
• 27:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, you looking great.
• 27:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: You got the end of the show.
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love for you to talk about super rare cards and the grading at some point.
• 27:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: When we get later on the show, so make sure we get to that.
• 27:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: But if we could have, let's dive into multiples, because I think so many people in our industry, they hear the word true, okay?
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: They hear the word true color.
• 28:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, which one of y'all want to take that?
• 28:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ham, Brent, what's one of y'all, I'll lead it in just so we can kind of contextualize and then Brent and you can speak to it.
• 28:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: So for our listeners, when we talk about true color in the Bowman space, we have the refractor for 99 in the modern market.
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have true blue to 150.
• 28:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have true gold to 50.
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have true orange to 25, true red to five, and then a super fracture.
• 28:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: So those, I think, are classically going to be the true colors.
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when you get into waves and shimmers and off, you know, insert parallels, whatever, that tends to lose its luster.
• 28:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the traditional mindset, you know, is
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: 499 to blue, kind of be in a two X multiplier, blue to gold, being two X, gold to orange, being two X, ish, and then orange to red, being whatever it's going to be, how do you kind of approach that from your perspective?
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, again, complexity.
• 28:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Complexity is so much fun.
• 28:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if there wasn't complexity in the space, I'd be so bored.
• 29:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I love this stuff.
• 29:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, if we're just opening up 89 upper deck again, I'd be beyond bored and probably not in the space.
• 29:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's always a comp, always.
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care what someone tells me.
• 29:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, red hasn't sold in six months.
• 29:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care.
• 29:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's the orange?
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's the gold?
• 29:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can look at any of those cards and get an idea of like, what is a value range for this card?
• 29:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So for example, if I'm looking at a gold and there's an orange comp, I usually put an orange around one and a half a gold a lot of times.
• 29:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there's also new
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, we're a more modern card might be an orange might be 2x a gold, you know, for a 2008 kurshot might be 1.5x.
• 29:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, from an orange to a red, I might just say, okay, for an older, you know, Paul Goldschmidt or Freddie Freeman, maybe a red is 3x the orange.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: But for the modern stuff, people get emotional and excited and they tend to like expand those ratios.
• 30:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the older the card is, the older the first Bowman is, those ratios tend to shrink up a little bit.
• 30:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: The more modern, the more speculative, the more gambling aspect of the card, those ratios tend to expand a lot.
• 30:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that has been really fun for me because you can front run something if a gold hasn't sold for a while and a big orange comp happens.
• 30:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can know what the gold should be now, but if someone's just relying on an old gold comp from nine months ago, you can come in and offer them a, hey, I'll give you 105% to that comp.
• 30:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you can you can front run it or or vice versa.
• 30:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I have it many times where a guy's in decline and a gold comp hits or red comp hits and I have one of the other colors.
• 30:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can actually use that and leverage it to my own ability to say, okay, well, I know there hasn't been an orange
• 30:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that red comp just dropped quite a bit and that puts my orange comp, you know, the significantly less value.
• 30:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: But if people are just staring at comps all day, like they do, they don't do the work.
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're not going to be able to do that.
• 31:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's some really important.
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just, you got to have guardrails around what you what you're willing to pay for a card.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's always a comparable.
• 31:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do this in basketball.
• 31:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do this in football.
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do it in all cars, all aspects.
• 31:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I usually have some general idea of where a card should land.
• 31:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 31:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'll say this is a little mat, learning from a variety of sources has gotten really, really good at what you just talked about, Brent, and understanding how to find value within the cop structure of the different colored parallels and then pricing out other colored parallels.
• 31:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
• 31:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 31:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and and so I'm going to give you guys this as an example, just because it's in front of me right here.
• 31:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: So this is Caleb Bonumer, and he's kind of a guy that started to get pretty hot.
• 31:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: So he had a gold comp at like I think 1200 bucks in a PSA 10, right, which in theory would put a raw orange similar to a PSA 10 gold in most people's minds.
• 31:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: But someone listed the raw orange at the last raw orange comp on eBay and a little matte nap bought it as soon as he saw it for five hundred and twenty five dollars or whatever.
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this card an orange wave just comped at seventeen hundred.
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the actual value of that card right now is probably closer to two k.
• 32:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's like $1,500 on that card, just based off of that cross-compink scenario and just taking advantage of a quick sale on eBay, and that's where so much of the industry right now is comp-driven.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: But if you can go beyond the cops and be smart with the cops and play the cops in your favor, another example last year is we saw that Steph Curry's
• 32:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: PSA 10s were down in his tops, PSA 10s, but we had a fresh label PSA 10, just great with PSA.
• 32:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we know that, you know, to the market, they see that, they say grading, you know, standards have increased and changed and been more difficult, more strenuous.
• 32:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you have a fresh label 10, more than likely, it's probably a better copy, right, to the eye than an old label 10.
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so we were able to buy off of an old label comp and then we sold on a new label comp.
• 33:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So little nuances like that, Brent, I think is where you've really stepped into the space and done really, really well.
• 33:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when you talk about like going back to that too, like triangulation of comp says really important.
• 33:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So a big mistake I see people make a lot of times is for example, we had a damn marino essential credentials now.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was looking at like comparables of John L. way.
• 33:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was looking at comparables of other sets.
• 33:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was looking at ratios ratios to the future to the now, right?
• 33:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a significant difference in the serial number in between the now and the future.
• 33:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, this card is worth 40 to 60k.
• 33:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at all the different ratios from different other sets, like I was just sharing.
• 33:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it sold for, I want to say it sold for 108.
• 33:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I told multiple clients, I'm like, that's just too much.
• 33:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know it sold for that much, but like, it just doesn't make sense.
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, card pops up again for auction, a couple months later, exact same card.
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it did, okay, right?
• 34:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So somebody just lost.
• 34:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: half their money by overpaying.
• 34:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: But again, even though there was that comp at 110k for that now, you have to still do the work, just because there's a comp.
• 34:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't mean that's, you know, the real value that that will play out over time.
• 34:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I remember that card was available privately, and I'm like, I don't care what the comp is.
• 34:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's worth that.
• 34:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: That makes no sense based off of it.
• 34:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: All the other work I did.
• 34:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's important for people when they're
• 34:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: when they're just all by themselves, you've got it still do the work.
• 34:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't just blindly pay for a card because there's a comp at that price.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Make sure it makes sense.
• 34:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is this the ratio that a future to now usually does?
• 34:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is this the ratio that a red orange usually does?
• 34:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: like get an idea, a similar player, if a gold of a first boom and sells for 10K of one player and it sells for 10K of another player and someone pays three times that for whatever color it is, just make sure they line up, like don't just blindly look at a comp, and that will save you a lot of money.
• 35:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I do think it's worth noting to guys that this, this,
• 35:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's changed not only in the cards that Brent you deal with with the 90s and the way that people value them in the last five years.
• 35:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not only changing the way people are looking at the grading, but it's changing now even in modern.
• 35:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think this needs to be said for the people that are in modern.
• 35:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: What I live in day to day is now all the sudden there's a acceptance all the sudden is well of like black.
• 35:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: as a true color at 10, okay?
• 35:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if that's if people picked up on that, but now 10, they've come out, Bowman has Bowen first.
• 35:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a black 10.
• 35:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: You should be 75 now it's at a 10.
• 35:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: I used to value that car because even though it was at a 10, it wasn't a true color, it was getting valued one to one to one.
• 35:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's how we were valuing it, modern collectors.
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's still how I value it.
• 35:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, most of the time when you look at collections, that's how it goes.
• 35:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: But you will see people that will come in that are new to the space that'll see out of 10 and just because it's out of 10, the incrementally will pay more because it's black and it's out of 10 in their mind.
• 36:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's oh, it's out of 10, it's time out of 25.
• 36:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I think it's just important because there's it's going to continue to change.
• 36:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're going to continue to add new variations of cards this year for example.
• 36:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: They added the new gold ink at a 15 card.
• 36:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you've seen all those going and they're going berserk and great people are paying all those prices.
• 36:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it holds on.
• 36:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it is this new great collectible.
• 36:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: But in reality it might not be.
• 36:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it might be a year from now, everybody goes, yeah, that's old.
• 36:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of like the old red and white bread and black Rayway, or whatever.
• 36:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: So my point is things do continue to change the way that people comp things continues to change.
• 36:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've seen ratios change quite a bit where red a couple of years ago in the modern space, Brent, was when I first got into really super modern.
• 36:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I could go pick up reds from oranges when the market was down.
• 37:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I could go get reds for two times an orange in the modern space all day.
• 37:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, now that's changed because there's more money in the market, there's more people bullish on products.
• 37:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: So now that multiples almost pushing the three four X again on the red.
• 37:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'll say that's a great topic right there.
• 37:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like the expansion of ratios is something that I continuously keep seeing.
• 37:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like a green PNG in football is nine times more rare than the red.
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And man, I used to just have a hey day by in a green PNG for three and four X the reds.
• 37:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just, I just thought it was the the most ridiculous thing.
• 37:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'd buy any player didn't care it was.
• 37:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember people laughed at me because I bought two green PNG Curtis Martin's.
• 37:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was paying three and four times X the red.
• 37:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: The reds out of 135 and the greens out of 15.
• 37:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mass a difference.
• 37:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so what I'm seeing right now in the market is continuous expansion of these ratios.
• 37:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: For example, a red is five times more red, rare than the orange, but it was sold for two to three X.
• 38:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: That makes no sense.
• 38:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: If this is like artness exponential, rarity is key.
• 38:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: A red shouldn't be even five times more expensive than an orange.
• 38:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It should be exponential.
• 38:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: It should be 10 times more an orange.
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, if we're going to really look at this like an art market, it shouldn't be the way it was, like, you know, black finite and prison.
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of them were selling for three and four times, like, a gold to 10 and they're one of ones.
• 38:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was the easiest money I've ever made my life was just buying these because a ratio has made no sense.
• 38:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: A black finite of one versus a gold out of 10, you know, it should be minimally 10 times more.
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, and if it's like
• 38:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, I'm seeing this in a lot of the spaces where, you know, I'm seeing ratios expanding.
• 38:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever it is, ratios are discontinuing to- Oh, and they expand specifically when you've got a player or a card in demand that no one seen the card in for a long time.
• 38:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you are a far-holding, something precious, a super-frack, or a red, or even an orange, in some case, sometimes on some of these players, I mean, there's some of the even the guys
• 39:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, bid 2000 guys, 2010, 11, 12, 13, 14, he never sold their oranges.
• 39:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, for example, there was a stretch of time there that you never saw in my travel age.
• 39:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, literally for three years, I don't think I saw one.
• 39:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, you're seeing more of them come to market the last two years.
• 39:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: But the important is, when you don't see that card for a long period of time, it could someone is doing a good job of kind of holding that market and keeping it comes to market.
• 39:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Man, that is when you see those numbers get stretched big time.
• 39:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because, again, the demand and up, somebody's been hoping and dreaming that that card was going to go for sale.
• 39:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And when it does, they're willing to pay for it.
• 39:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what do you guys think like a ratio of a super fractor of a future Hall of Famer versus a gold first Bowman auto would be?
• 39:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: What would you guys guess a ratio would be for something like that?
• 40:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'd gold the super fractor.
• 40:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know what the ratio is in our current market, but I don't think it's probably what it should be.
• 40:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, in current Bowman terms that we play in right now, it's probably 20 to 25 times a goal.
• 40:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
• 40:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's go and say, it should be at least 50 times.
• 40:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 40:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what I'm seeing in the markets for significant players, super fractures, is this bumped up to, I'm seeing 40 to 50 ex-the-gold prices going moving privately now.
• 40:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: People are waking up.
• 40:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, why would a super fractured one?
• 40:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like it just makes those no sense and for the longest time like you're saying, Bubba, you could probably pick up a super fractured.
• 40:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see.
• 40:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So a goal to orange is 1.5 times to reds three times to super fractures for usually like three to four extra reds.
• 40:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're looking at this.
• 40:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is one of the extra maybe this is the perfect segue right here.
• 40:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you all teed it up.
• 41:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I love.
• 41:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: old cards.
• 41:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is something that's probably worth the new to both of y'all.
• 41:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I really, really do.
• 41:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I, like if I, like, wasn't into prospecting and turning prospects, the 100 percent, I would be buying all Babe Ruth, Jackie Robinson, Ted Williams.
• 41:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just love it.
• 41:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's so cool.
• 41:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can buy a card.
• 41:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a hundred years old.
• 41:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: and it's something that's in, you know, this condition, there's only few of them.
• 41:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: So here we are, okay, we're in a day in time where everybody, most of the time now when they pull a car from a pack, they pretty much know what they've got, right?
• 41:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Unless it's a prospect, that's kind of under the radar or maybe a guy goes, man, this guy's got sucked.
• 41:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: And he throws him in the drawer somewhere, but most of the time people know what they're gonna get.
• 41:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: So let's talk about the future of these grail cards.
• 41:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, guys that are here right now.
• 41:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Perfect example could be current riffing today, right of the super factor that's there today.
• 41:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's the number one prospect, it's a grail card.
• 41:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: When we look at the grade of that card, right?
• 42:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: You look at history of time and you look at all, and I've done this, okay, and I've gone back and looked at all the best cards that are out there.
• 42:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Ted Williams, Babe Ruth.
• 42:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: When you look, it's how many of those cards total.
• 42:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, and I think this is gonna happen in older cards.
• 42:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think the total population of cards right now in older cards is not getting enough credit.
• 42:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, number one, I wanna say that.
• 42:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Think people are still so focused on the grade of these super old cards.
• 42:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: But if a card is 120 years old, and there's only 30 of them,
• 42:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: every one of those should be rare.
• 42:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it should get its due course that one's obviously a 10 and one is a one, right?
• 42:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously the 10 should be more than the one, but when you get into a card like these modern guys, we now know these super fractures, look a hundred years from that.
• 42:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Conorgriffin becomes the next mic trap, the next show adds on it.
• 42:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: what is the super, what cards you're gonna be the value?
• 42:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is gonna be the superfactor, because it is the one of one.
• 43:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: It isn't about the grade anymore.
• 43:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: It isn't, oh, guinea.ps.a 10 orange.
• 43:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, guinea to me over that superfactor, because it's a 10, the superfactor's authentic, but the PSA 10 orange, guinea to 10 because PSA gave it a 10, that's a joke.
• 43:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I know you talk a lot about that, like the grade of the super grail cards.
• 43:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: when they're one of ones, when they're out of five.
• 43:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so I think that's a very interesting topic when we talk about grading.
• 43:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: And where the lifetime value of that card is going to be.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, like with vintage cards, you know, back then, the only thing that makes some rare scarce, the only thing that differentiates them is the grade.
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what I see a common mistake of people coming into the hobby doing is they apply those same principles to modern cards.
• 43:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you'll see a PSA 10,
• 43:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, gold, out sell a BGS95 orange or you'll see a PSA 10 orange out sell a PSA 7 red and it's just I just think it's like the dumbest thing I've ever seen in all of collecting just I have very little patience for it think it makes no sense and I think you always want to go for the most rare and scarce card no matter what no matter what the great is because over the long term like I remember I did a real one time because there's a black label
• 44:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mike Trout, First Bowman, X-Frapper.
• 44:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: What are those?
• 44:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: The two 25?
• 44:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: It outsold a BGS95 gold and blue combined, and you still had 10K left.
• 44:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: To me, it was like the dumbest thing I've ever seen in my life, and that was a couple of years ago, who cares what the grade is of a card if there's a more rare and scarce version of it?
• 44:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: This isn't, this isn't tops.
• 44:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is how stupid, this is exactly your point.
• 44:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: let's say that today there was give me a card ham that you love give me a modern card food in the last 15 years that you love a bone and first hand you're one of your things my favorite I would I would automatically pick the show has 2018
• 45:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: batting.
• 45:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, brink.
• 45:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Give me one of your favorite cards the last 10, 15, your phone and first.
• 45:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: My trout.
• 45:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: So let's take that scenario.
• 45:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: One goes on auction today and it's a PSA5.
• 45:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: So your cards a PSA5, brit, and yours, ham, is a BGS6bop.
• 45:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Both of those are going to get absolutely smashed in an auction, right?
• 45:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Here's how stupid this is.
• 45:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: You take that card, you crack that card, and you sell it raw, you can't get it from this rate.
• 45:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: More money than next day.
• 45:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Think about that.
• 45:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: It goes raw.
• 45:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: It goes raw without a slab on it for significantly more money.
• 45:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that happens every single
• 45:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I've got a, I've got a scenario for you guys here.
• 45:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: You'll love this Brent.
• 45:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, and again, I'll take your input on this too.
• 45:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, one of the things little Matt noticed is currently talking about Mike Trout, 2009 Bowman, right?
• 46:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right now, his refractor to 500 is outselling his X-fractor to 25.
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: in many cases.
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it makes no sense to me because the refractors to 500 and the x-ractors to 25.
• 46:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I just little Matt just pulled this.
• 46:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is the x-fractor trout.
• 46:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a PSA eight.
• 46:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 46:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Auto 10 to 225.
• 46:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: We got this for less than a PSA nine.
• 46:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: refractor does.
• 46:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is exactly what I'm talking about.
• 46:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and another thing that's really fun about this space, too, is like I don't know if everybody appreciates the significance of the first boom in my trout and why that card's so special and important.
• 46:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, because we see modern cards today and we see like gosh, you know, like boom and chrome, tops, chrome, rookies, finest, like all just so many cards being printed, right?
• 46:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: at all.
• 46:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Period.
• 46:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: At all.
• 46:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: No top scrum rookies.
• 46:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's got no Bowman chrome rookie autos.
• 47:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like that is, you know, what a massive difference is.
• 47:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is versus say like a show Hayo Tani.
• 47:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 47:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because Bowman chrome rookie autos, top scrum rookie autos, non-od.
• 47:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like he doesn't even have those cards.
• 47:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that kind of stuff is fun too.
• 47:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's the same thing about the 90 stuff, like you said, I mean, that that credentials now that you have of the, the Geter, right?
• 47:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I mean, Chipper Jones.
• 47:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just sorry, sorry, sorry, Joe, Joe, it's this number to six.
• 47:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, it's like, dude, you're not going to, I mean, even even the desert shield, Chipper Jones rookie, you know what I mean, like, great dependent.
• 47:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a great card, but it's great dependent.
• 47:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's only has value based on the grade.
• 47:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a PSA 10.
• 47:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's cheaper Jones could might the essential credentials now could be a PSA one and have significant about yeah who who care so I have some kind of like just general general questions Brent when you start to look at the 90 stuff and even early 2000 stuff.
• 47:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about two things.
• 47:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Number one, I want to talk about sport.
• 47:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Number two, I want to talk about players.
• 47:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: So when you look at football basketball baseball, based in that kind of era, you know, how do you rank those?
• 48:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I know the international market tends to go after basketball, you kind of mention that.
• 48:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like, how do you, I think there's ridiculous value and baseball.
• 48:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think baseball stuff is super undervalued compared to stuff in football and basketball, that makes sense.
• 48:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 48:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I actually think this podcast right here is what makes it make sense.
• 48:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're starting to get into, you know, some of the 90 stuff with Cal Ripkin, however, doesn't have much of an idea around these learning, right?
• 48:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Currents probably doesn't have a big idea around these learning.
• 48:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: You guys are like really brilliant.
• 48:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: die hard baseball fans and collectors.
• 48:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think this is actually one of the reasons why I want to come on because you guys are a great example of like how much more there is to go in the space in the baseball space.
• 48:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas I feel like in basketball, a lot of the guys that are collecting the stuff and basketball grew up with it and they're just, that's all they collect.
• 48:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's their first moment.
• 48:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: This, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this,
• 48:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: basketball stuff, these basketball guys is their first moment.
• 48:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like everything else doesn't matter to them, then this all they care about.
• 49:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like basketball and football starting to catch up.
• 49:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a lot of opportunity in baseball and football.
• 49:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: As Jordan leads these sets, I love collecting cards and sets where there's a apex goat kind of player that pulls out whole set up.
• 49:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, Michael Jordan being in the central credentials, Michael Jordan being in precious metal gems is really important and it lifts up all those sets.
• 49:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so so one of the things that got me started in a buddy of mine, shout out to our buddy David Cummings, because he's kind of a deep value.
• 49:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: He would actually be a great fourth wheel on this episode, because he thinks this way about stuff.
• 49:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a guy on Instagram, his name's Caging Cardboard, and he does a good breakdown of different Jordan.
• 49:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he's basically tiered out Michael Jordan's cards based on pack scarcity odds from the 90s.
• 49:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so we have literally like a full size poster, you know, like very familiar.
• 49:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so what I did is I took that Michael Jordan poster and I said if these are Jordan's rarest cards, what players in baseball coincide with these cards?
• 50:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so one of the sets that is a tier one Jordan card is the Flair Showcase Rose zeros.
• 50:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were the legacies, right?
• 50:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Number 200.
• 50:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I started to target the legacy showcase number to 100s because that's a tier one Jordan because PMGs are a little bit, you know, they can be hard to acquire.
• 50:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, again, these flare legacies, I mean, they're number to 100, they're very, very low population and they look great, you know what I mean?
• 50:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: So when you start talking about specific sets, Brent, do you have a ranking system on which sets?
• 50:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I know the PMGs are up there, but outside of the PMGs, when it comes to the 90s stuff, like, what do your go to?
• 50:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's going to, I mean, for me is precious metal gyms, PNGs, central credentials, rubies.
• 50:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Those are those are the ones that I really focus on for 90s because there's just so much there because I collect basketball and football and baseball.
• 50:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know,
• 51:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's massive opportunity in the football PNG market specifically for the Greens.
• 51:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I dabble into that.
• 51:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think for baseball, essential credentials in 1998 when you go for the low serial number now's massive opportunities.
• 51:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because again, the ratios, you know, the cheaper Jones is out of six.
• 51:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: the total and baseball of the central credentials now and the future adds up to 101.
• 51:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that means that the chipper Jones, if the now is to six, the futures to 95.
• 51:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a massive rarity difference, right?
• 51:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
• 51:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of times you can find the ratios of what you pay for the more rarer version of that to not be nearly what it should be.
• 51:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I would encourage people to look for those opportunities within those.
• 51:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Those are the three that I stick with.
• 51:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, showcase legacies are great.
• 51:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: They also have the master pieces, which you see come available, which are the ones.
• 51:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And some of those.
• 51:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because the low case, the zero, one, two, three, there's a lot of variations of them.
• 51:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's, you know, that's definitely a complicated aspect of that too.
• 52:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that would probably come after central credentials, precious metal gems, rubies, and then it would be the legacy for me.
• 52:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and you got like another one is the platinum Italian sets that number 100 those do those are out of the ultra flerochra platinum a day and there's a couple one of ones of those of Michael Jordan not that heritage right now for the first ever yeah, which is pretty amazing.
• 52:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then another, another cool set and then you have this assault on your Instagram pages, the 24 karat gold.
• 52:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love the 24 karat gold.
• 52:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, 1998, Flierberg, Brilliant's, you know, there's the base set.
• 52:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a flat gold to 99.
• 52:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're just imagining again, opening up these cases, no one has ever seen, no one's back in 1998, had ever seen it's 24 karat gold.
• 52:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're just, they're so rare.
• 52:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the shine on these cards was incredible.
• 52:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a golden ninety nine and then there is the twenty four carrot gold to twenty four and I love the football set because it's got paid manning's rookie card is got Randy Moss is rookie card It's got Jerry race.
• 53:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's got Barry Sanders.
• 53:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: It has all the legends in it.
• 53:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: The reason why it doesn't get the hoop law that I think it should get is because it's the basketball set Michael Jordan's not in it So I think that makes a difference so
• 53:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I steered into more football with that set because Jordan's not in the basketball set, but the 24 karat gold is probably that in the PNG green for football for football.
• 53:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: 24 karat gold in the green PNG's are my favorite football cards that exists.
• 53:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, another thing too is, I note you don't collect a lot of Michael Jordan.
• 53:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: You leverage Jordan.
• 53:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why did you not personally collect Michael Jordan?
• 53:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, because I love Apex cards and I love collecting just like the best cards in the world of a player.
• 53:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't afford to buy a green PNG Michael Jordan or if I were even seen one for sale.
• 53:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a green PNG Michael Jordan would sell for five plus million dollars.
• 53:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Five plus.
• 53:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just it's just never really been something that I had the opportunity to buy.
• 54:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, looking back if I would have bought
• 54:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: some of these rubies and essential credentials that I could afford, whatever it was that I could afford three, four, five years ago, out of done very well.
• 54:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I just, I'm just always drawn to the best cards of players.
• 54:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care what player it is.
• 54:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Even if it's Michael Jordan, so a great example of when I first kind of got back into it, I had a 2003 top-scrome based card LeBron James in the 95.
• 54:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is rookie card in the Slebron James.
• 54:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love Lebron James, but man, I just was not excited about.
• 54:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would rather have a gold to 50 of any other player than the base Lebron James.
• 54:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was just, my mind just immediately was just looking for rarity scarcity, best sets.
• 54:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care who the player is, over just having a player.
• 54:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know what did this for me.
• 54:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I talk about this on the podcast all the time is during the pandemic.
• 54:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of got into the bourbon market and the secondary market relating to bourbon because North Carolina is a controlled state, which means the ABC controls the flow in the price unlike Bubba living in Georgia.
• 55:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, shop owners can go down there and they can they can have a papy van link.
• 55:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, they could put their price point on it.
• 55:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: People can go get it or whatever.
• 55:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: But what that taught me this retail value contingent to each state based on secondary value and then you start looking at rarity and scarcity and you start looking at the allocation, the number of bottles made, all this kind of stuff or whatever.
• 55:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, again, it started to kind of click with me.
• 55:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, man, why are we going after these Zion Williams and, you know, silver,
• 55:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: prisms when there's a much rarer card out here.
• 55:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that kind of ladder that that ladder does into Bowman initially.
• 55:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then within the Bowman space, I saw how much the scarcity of the rarity, the the serial numbers, the true colors.
• 55:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I started applying that to these other, you know, the mean us of cards.
• 55:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just been fascinating.
• 55:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to share this on the show.
• 55:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is where little Matt and I were at the Charlotte card show.
• 55:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we saw a guy with a 1933, I think a 33, Audi sports kings, Jim Thorpe.
• 56:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and it was a PSA4, and it's just a beautiful card.
• 56:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Jim Thorpe was, I think, the first, you know, inductee in the football hall of fame or whatever, first present in the football hall of fame.
• 56:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he's kind of this iconic guy with the Olympics and all this kind of stuff, and it was a beautiful card.
• 56:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I looked at it and I was like, why is this card only five grand?
• 56:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
• 56:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we snap bought it, cash, at the Charlotte card show.
• 56:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And fast forward two months, we threw it out on eBay at like, I don't know, $11,000.
• 56:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we sold that card for nine grand.
• 56:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: We made $4,000 on that card in two months.
• 56:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because there were only, I think, 300 total cards in the population.
• 56:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And in a PSA4, I think there might have been like, I don't know, 70 or something.
• 56:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: But today, I honestly regret selling that card because I think that that card is going to have long-term value.
• 56:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I tell that story to ask you the question, Brent, when do you decide to take value in rare cards?
• 57:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because a lot of times they're irreplaceable means seldom.
• 57:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, take value.
• 57:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what I mean.
• 57:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I take value.
• 57:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, that's incredibly difficult.
• 57:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think if you understand ratios, if you understand markets, if there's hype cycles involved in it, you know, if there's a Hall of Fame induction, if there's some sort of, for example, if you have a green and a red has a massive sale, and now you can apply a massive ratio onto your green.
• 57:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's opportunities to do that, or someone who's just continuously coming after you to buy a card, and they're continuously wanting to buy it from you, I'm very selective now, very selective.
• 57:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the sales have really come down, because like you're saying, like the Chipper Jones, essential credentials now of the six, I will not be able to replace that card.
• 57:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ever.
• 57:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was getting more and more difficult to sell cards.
• 57:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Versus like the red shack that I have in 90, that's that's replaceable.
• 57:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, I would be more open to selling something like that.
• 58:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I used to have three of them.
• 58:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I've sold two of them in the last year because it's more replaceable.
• 58:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: If I had a green shack, I don't know what would make me sell that.
• 58:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so this is a great question because I've been looking at things also like that, but also on the buying side.
• 58:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So for example, I got this 97 precious metal gyms champ Allen Iberson to 50.
• 58:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So third best card in the set behind Jordan and Kobe.
• 58:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: This card, if you look at the ratios of the champ to 50 versus the red 90s, the champ to 50 usually always outsells the red 90s.
• 58:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, one of these sold for the first time in three years.
• 58:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I felt like it did a pretty fair price.
• 58:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was around 37-5.
• 58:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: It felt like a value, right?
• 58:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, a couple months later, the exact same card came up available for sale again at auction.
• 58:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Did a little less.
• 58:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then it came up a third time.
• 58:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: The exact card.
• 58:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It hadn't sold in three years.
• 58:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: It came up three times the same card in a few months.
• 58:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I looked at as an opportunity to grab that card at an extremely discounted value, because psychologically speaking when something becomes too available, no matter how great the card is, people get turned off by it.
• 59:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I looked at as an opportunity to buy it.
• 59:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I know you're asking about how to sell.
• 59:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've lately been looking at ways to buy, you know, something like that to sell, now I get to sit back, stash it away for a couple of years, and not worry about it, and eventually it'll come back to the value that it should be.
• 59:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I've been looking for opportunity psychologically speaking the buy card set are out of nowhere available to often.
• 59:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's cycles in this, which is really interesting.
• 59:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so one of the things that's really interesting too is when you get guys that come in, they might buy a collection and they might have like a PMG in there and they don't really care or know a lot about it.
• 59:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: They might have bought it for another card and you can kind of get value on that particular card, right?
• 59:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like knowing certain situations, you know, one of the cards Brent, we talked about this card and I'm kicking myself for not buying it.
• 59:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll go back to Fanatic Fest last year.
• 1:00:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're sitting in a lobby of the Javit Center and I came up to you and I said,
• 1:00:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a guy that has the PMG Cal Ripkin, PSA.
• 1:00:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we looked at the cops together and you told me, you said, man, I feel like if you could get that thing around 10, you know what I mean?
• 1:00:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: You'd be doing really, really well, right?
• 1:00:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And at the time, I mean, still for me, a $10,000 purchase is a big card.
• 1:00:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I still have that him mug up, you know, I'm buying him the card.
• 1:00:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the crazy thing was, as it was a PSA eight, I offered the guy $10,000, the guy wanted 11.
• 1:00:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: and I passed on it, right?
• 1:00:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Little Matt still to this day.
• 1:00:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dad, you should have bought that card.
• 1:00:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dad, you should have bought that card.
• 1:00:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: A PSA six of that card at auction two months ago did 16k.
• 1:00:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely killing me.
• 1:00:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the point being is that when you get into this nuanced game, whether it be the 90s insert stuff, whether it be a true orange of a player you're looking for, you have to have the conviction when you see these cards on the market to pull the trigger.
• 1:00:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even if you're paying over comp, because that, in fact, is what drives the value, is how rare and how, you know, it's not very frequent that you see, and Bubba, we talk about this all the time in the modern boom it, about how people are holding, about how you and it comes to reds when it comes to super, when it comes to oranges even, you don't see those cards go in the market that much.
• 1:01:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so when you see them and you can take advantage of that opportunity, it's a win every time.
• 1:01:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, 8 Miller.
• 1:01:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, 8 Miller's on fire right now.
• 1:01:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, sure you know that 8 Miller has been everybody wants him right.
• 1:01:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, there was a guy that had two red Sapphire PSA 10 10s available and little Matt was talking to him as well.
• 1:01:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I probably stretch to buy those today, but I knew that if I didn't buy those cards, those cards were going to hit auction really soon.
• 1:01:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I knew what they were going to go for.
• 1:01:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: I knew that even though
• 1:01:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: on paper on a comp that so that they may technically be overpaying.
• 1:02:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I knew that those are two cards that you're probably not going to see for a while unless they went to an auction and they were going to go high.
• 1:02:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I bought and I think we talked about that all the time.
• 1:02:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: When you've got that conviction on a player and and Brent, you've got me coming out of this episode right now.
• 1:02:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Want to go about 24 karat gold cards.
• 1:02:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: You got me wanted by Green PMGs out of
• 1:02:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: But you got to have that kind of, you've got to have that conviction in anything you do in sports cards.
• 1:02:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: But this is a question.
• 1:02:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: I sat back and listen, you guys last 15 minutes, 20 minutes.
• 1:02:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is something that I think when you get into this 90s game, I think there is a danger there.
• 1:02:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to get yells opinion on this, both yells opinion.
• 1:02:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: This may not be a popular opinion for you too, but I'm going to use Shipper Jones for an example and Cal Ripkin.
• 1:02:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Two guys, we both y'all brought up today.
• 1:02:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: I bought my farm.
• 1:02:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I bought this man's collection who was 86 years old.
• 1:03:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, when I bought my farm.
• 1:03:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you got to see it, but I think I had sold most of it at the time when you got there.
• 1:03:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: But at the time when I bought it, this guy had Model T cars.
• 1:03:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: He had literally Model T, the original Model T. He had all kinds of showcars.
• 1:03:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he had all this stuff, like Indian artifacts and all this come cool stuff.
• 1:03:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: stuff that was really cool in the 90s and 2000s, 2010, 15.
• 1:03:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I bought this stuff for a discount, severe discount.
• 1:03:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was wondering why this guy was selling the stuff so cheap.
• 1:03:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, when I went to go selling it back on auction, I had a big auction house coming and we did an auction on my house.
• 1:03:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I got an education on something.
• 1:03:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's really, really, really, really interesting to apply this to cars, okay?
• 1:03:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: They all said, you know, want to know why the Model T's aren't worth as much anymore, because that breed is dying.
• 1:03:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: The people that were interested in that type of car are dying, okay?
• 1:03:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: They are no longer here.
• 1:03:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: We are a breed of 90s people, or Cal Rippkin is makes sense, right?
• 1:04:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Chipper Jones makes sense.
• 1:04:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: But Cal Rippkin was a great player in Chipper Jones, or great players, but they're not they're worth.
• 1:04:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're not household names, too, like, my kids are born in Atlanta, so they know who Chipper Jones is.
• 1:04:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: But kids probably in Washington, maybe will never know where you're at, who Chipper Jones even is, right?
• 1:04:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because there's all, they're good, but they will know who they're worth it.
• 1:04:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: So when we talk about apex cards, Michael Jordan is an apex card.
• 1:04:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Babe Ruth is an apex player.
• 1:04:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because these are apex players.
• 1:04:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, show hat is probably gonna be an apex player, right?
• 1:04:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Aaron Judge might make it to an apex player.
• 1:04:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: So my question to you guys is, when you're thinking holding cars 20, 30, 40, 50 years, does that chip or out of six really hold its value?
• 1:04:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: 50 years from now does a does a PMG ripkin really hold his value.
• 1:04:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna say if I was a betting man I'd say the holder value to where they are today, but I don't think I think the true apex is going to be the people that kids that are born in the next generation and the next and the next are gonna Know their names that won't get jealous peniona.
• 1:05:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can go.
• 1:05:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can go.
• 1:05:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know like it goes back to you know
• 1:05:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: the sets.
• 1:05:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So for me, it's about the sets, the collectability of the sets, people want to collect these sets.
• 1:05:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So a PMG and essential credentials, the rubies, with a low serial number and the rarity and scarce of these cards, it creates a dynamic where it doesn't have to only be the most apex players to ever play in the game to make the cards collectible.
• 1:05:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you see some of the pricing creases in some of these cards, the cheaper Jones has gone from being a
• 1:05:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, 1,500 bucks to 30,000 dollars in the matter of a decade is because of the value of the set and that is banking on the Michael Jordan's and those apex players continuing to bring up the value of that set, but it's it's gone way beyond the fact of whether they're just an apex player.
• 1:06:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think.
• 1:06:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Collectibility in cards historically is really relied on only collecting the very best of the best because there is no complexity in collecting.
• 1:06:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: The cards were not rare, so the only way to make something rare is to only collect the most apex player, and then even on top of that, they still didn't have any value.
• 1:06:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: You had to make it so where it's only the highest grade of the apex player to have any value.
• 1:06:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think things have changed in collectability in cards with rarity, scarcity, and serial numbering and sets being really important.
• 1:06:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, having the kangryphi juniors or credentials now, which is a $200,000 plus card, that's the card to get over the Chipper Jones, not going to doubt that.
• 1:06:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's also serial number to 10, whereas the Chipper Jones is the 6.
• 1:06:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's so much complexity to it where, for example, an Allen Iverson, essential credentials,
• 1:06:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: future sold for 750,000 dollars last year and 50,000 because this what to three is Jersey numbered.
• 1:07:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that outsold better players that are more apex players because the cards the three and that set is incredibly important.
• 1:07:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want to take this more complex.
• 1:07:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd be willing to put a lot of money on this.
• 1:07:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: If there was a Vegas line right now, that in 30 years, that Allen Iverson card isn't worth, isn't worth that money in 30 years.
• 1:07:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: As far as in return on value, I bet you that card's not worth 750 and 30 years.
• 1:07:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd put the Vegas by myself.
• 1:07:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I based on that, I don't think there's any way in 30 years.
• 1:07:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: When we talk about, I don't, we could tell you about sets.
• 1:07:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: We could talk about all the above, but there is something where who the person is collecting and what their, what their memory is of that player.
• 1:07:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like for example, you talk about it all the time.
• 1:07:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: You said, I want to buy the best of that player star, Andrew McCutchen for example.
• 1:07:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: You've owned his supercracker for a while.
• 1:07:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: That card is gonna hold value as long as somebody's around,
• 1:08:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Allen Iverson is probably not going to be remembered one day in 30 40 years.
• 1:08:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: It would be it on us.
• 1:08:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's a third most sought after player in all 90s behind Jordan and Kobe was crazy.
• 1:08:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think I think the interesting piece here is, you know,
• 1:08:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a dynamic argument and the argument is does the set have value because it's the set versus it's about the player.
• 1:08:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that when you really, when you break that down, you have two schools of thought.
• 1:08:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the main, not only reasonable, but it goes back to, I mean, take Mickey Manl for example.
• 1:08:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: The first card ever produced of Mickey Manl was a 1951 moment, right?
• 1:08:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: But people don't value that as a rookie card.
• 1:08:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: They value the 1952 tops because the 1952 tops set.
• 1:08:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: transcended baseball card sets, you know what I mean?
• 1:08:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so there's there's there's a really dynamic argument there, but to your point, Baba, whether it's the player or the set, somebody has to be collecting that asset to make it worth something.
• 1:09:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and that's what we're in in this modern space is so much of the market is driven by the hype and this prospecting nature of these players.
• 1:09:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's really no collectability.
• 1:09:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's about trying to time it for the return on investment for the player and the time thing.
• 1:09:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then it transcends into does that player actually have sustainability.
• 1:09:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think to Brent's point, it's at some point in time.
• 1:09:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: if cards are collectible, it's about actually the set of cards as a historical piece over who that player actually was.
• 1:09:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a tier.
• 1:09:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the prospecting, the height, the drama, then the performance of the player, then it actually goes into this more iconic status of like
• 1:09:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: is this at piece of history, you know what I mean?
• 1:09:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is my point, and I'll leave it to this analogy.
• 1:09:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love analogies, okay?
• 1:09:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Babe Ruth is a block of gold you put in your safe.
• 1:09:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Got you know, block of gold, it's material, it's there.
• 1:10:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's gonna be there.
• 1:10:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's gonna be there a hundred years from now when you open that safe.
• 1:10:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: And people have collected and loved gold for a long, long time.
• 1:10:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I think sets are like Bitcoin.
• 1:10:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, they're like Bitcoin.
• 1:10:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Will they be here?
• 1:10:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe they will be in a hundred years.
• 1:10:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: But they're also the value of what that Bitcoin will be.
• 1:10:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thing in crypto in general is up for conversation.
• 1:10:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I guarantee when you, and because history already shows us this in baseball clubs.
• 1:10:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: you can go look at the 1909s.
• 1:10:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can look at the 1911s.
• 1:10:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can look at history shows us that people value the player.
• 1:10:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: The set, yes, you will get some increase in guys that if you take a run of the middle guy and that's set, or even a guy that's in the second or third tier of that set, he's significantly lower.
• 1:10:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Give you an example.
• 1:10:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Ted Williams was one of the best players in several played baseball.
• 1:10:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: He can't even, he can't even touch the baby's market.
• 1:10:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Can't even, you take their Drail car, take his best car, you take babies that don't even touch the same, same shot of spirit.
• 1:11:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so we're talking long-term, put it in a safe, give it to your kids at 50 or 60 years from now.
• 1:11:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would have some fear about some of these set type things.
• 1:11:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's just, that's my opinion.
• 1:11:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: But it was a player guy, friends, but it was a player guy, he's a player guy.
• 1:11:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: We respect him.
• 1:11:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Give me, give me the, give me the apex player, give me the guy and that's, I think that's why people are buying show, hey, the way they want.
• 1:11:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think they're banking on him being apex.
• 1:11:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's why I was so scared.
• 1:11:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't sure that he was yet, but I'm starting to believe that he is.
• 1:11:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: That he is.
• 1:11:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: When all else is equal, then yeah, give me the player.
• 1:11:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, if you're using Ted Williams, an example versus Babe Ruth, if Ted Williams wasn't a set, you know, early in this plane career and they started serial numbering cards to 5 and 10 or had a super fracture, you better believe that card's going to be worth more than any Babe Ruth of there is.
• 1:11:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: that's a very interesting statement.
• 1:12:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that's true.
• 1:12:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: You think that's true?
• 1:12:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I believe that would be true.
• 1:12:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:12:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: If 10 Williams had a superfactor first moment auto, it'd be worth more than a base Baybrough card that was mass produced that only has value and grade.
• 1:12:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see those cards though, but those did up banks, but we're talking in his best card.
• 1:12:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what it gets really interesting when you get to these old cards.
• 1:12:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Some of these Bay-Brews cards that are in existence, you can go back and look, there's some sets of Bay-Brews that literally only have 22 cards in population, 22.
• 1:12:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: 22 cars.
• 1:12:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, to that point, though, you take the Babe Ruth in 1917, the one that just sold and then sold again, and it went down like $2 million or whatever, Brent, you would know which one I'm talking about.
• 1:12:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think.
• 1:12:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:12:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: His Gaudies, his Gaudies stay in demand because there's a tie to the 33 Gaudies set.
• 1:12:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a much, much, much less the lower population of the, the redbacker, whatever it is.
• 1:12:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't think of the name for give me.
• 1:13:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, I want to respect our time here and to our listeners as well to kind of wrap this up.
• 1:13:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Brent, real quick, when you talk about, I love this conversation about player versus set or whatever.
• 1:13:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Give me, I mean, everybody knows if you're in the 90s, okay, 80s, 90s, whatever.
• 1:13:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're Jordan, right, your Kobe, right, those are your top tier basketball guys.
• 1:13:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: On the baseball front, you know, I would argue you've got
• 1:13:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Griffey and and Geter, but one tear down right a tear down guys that people sleep on that you think are gonna have substantial value and be remembered Kind of into the next generation who would be some guys that stand out to you regardless of sport regardless of sport regardless of sport
• 1:13:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:13:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, like for example, in baseball, I mean, we've already talked about them, but guys like Chipper Jones, like that's why I bought that card.
• 1:13:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Guys like Chipper Jones, that are, you know, significant.
• 1:13:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And basketball, it's going to be for me, it's shack, it's Iverson, it's going down to those tears.
• 1:13:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And football, I'll buy any green PMG in football.
• 1:13:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care who it is.
• 1:14:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, to me, the fact that you can buy the highest grade green PNG of Marvin Harrison for 20 something grand when he's at top seven receiver all time is wild to me.
• 1:14:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you can buy a Jerome bed this, if you can buy like these guys like Marshall full, I just think that's nuts that you can buy their best card in the world for 10 20 grand.
• 1:14:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's those opportunities that you know about I really love.
• 1:14:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's it's down there.
• 1:14:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I have to throw my head in the ring here.
• 1:14:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is one of the reasons why a little Matt now has to have this conversation about Cal Ripkin.
• 1:14:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And now I always talk about Cal Ripkin.
• 1:14:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I get people messaging me all the time on the show about how I love Ripkin.
• 1:14:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Lipkin was a two time MVP.
• 1:14:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: right, he won a world series.
• 1:14:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when you start to look at him being the Iron Man, his consecutive game streak is going to stand all time.
• 1:14:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you start to add up these factors, these are things that make me go, huh?
• 1:14:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really realize that.
• 1:14:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty rare air.
• 1:14:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you talk about multiple time, you know, Hall of Famers or whatever.
• 1:14:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then you go to a guy like Bonds, you know, who has seven MVP's.
• 1:15:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: who is largely overlooked because of the whole steroid error and not in the whole of the bond, whatever.
• 1:15:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:15:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're talking like, dude, this is the guy's an entirely different stratosphere.
• 1:15:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
• 1:15:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, Chipper Jones said, he plays for another universe in everybody else, plays saying.
• 1:15:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: So when you start talking about, I think Barry Bonds may be one of the most undervalued players in the history of baseball.
• 1:15:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:15:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
• 1:15:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:15:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love the bonds market and his essential credentials future comes available all the time.
• 1:15:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the 98 or 99 or I can't remember which means the now is only to two or three.
• 1:15:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Never even seen one before.
• 1:15:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you can get his PMG is 98 PMG to 50 where he's, you know, in that catching post.
• 1:15:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a great card.
• 1:15:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love the bonds market.
• 1:15:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's extremely undervalued.
• 1:15:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:15:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think I think point and there's no doubt that when kids
• 1:15:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're going to be kids, we're going to be old and gray guys if we're going to be old, old and gray and people are going to be sitting there 50 years from now and these kids are going to be looking at stats.
• 1:16:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
• 1:16:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's going to be people that come around that are deep value investor 3.0, Matt, M 3.0, and Boba 3.0 and they're going to be looking at stats and go look at this berry bond stuff.
• 1:16:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: You couldn't get this guy out.
• 1:16:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: You look at the walks.
• 1:16:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Look at what this guy, when you look at the stats of what Barry Bonstead, it is the most impressive thing in major league baseball history.
• 1:16:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I do think at some point all of the steroids part of it will get forgotten.
• 1:16:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: If I was going to start buying today of a modern player, there's no doubt Bonst would be the guy.
• 1:16:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Not even within a question.
• 1:16:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: You're actually motivating me.
• 1:16:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Brent, go find me the best Bonst we can find.
• 1:16:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want it.
• 1:16:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know another guy from that era and baseball speak because that this is a baseball podcast Frank Thomas Frank Thomas has a cult following man and these some of these rare 90 stuff like it's incredibly difficult to come across anything Frank Thomas he's highly collectible
• 1:17:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, and my other guy that that I'm so bummed I was a bow Jackson guy and bow Jackson is that iconic legendary what he could have been kind of guy But Jackson only played from that window from 86 to like 92 so he doesn't have any of these cards in it
• 1:17:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: kills me because I would give anything to have like a PMG or like a you know whatever credentials of bojax and it just doesn't exist and so it really only a very specific player that has those cards so when you get into jeter and griffy and ripkin and bonds and some of these like Tony Gwynes and other one that just they don't exist I mean probably one of the greatest hitters to ever play the game of baseball he doesn't have those cards you know and so to understand the nuance of the stuff guys I could talk about this this
• 1:17:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, but we got to thank the guys who thought I want this thought because I could talk about this all day too We got a guy who's going to go into the Hall of Fame.
• 1:17:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: He just he's just ending his career quick take from you to as it's hit my head here Do you thank Clayton Kershall will get the Albert Puhl's treatment here as he's into this career
• 1:18:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: because he is cards kind of the last year to took a dip from where they were of three, four, five years ago.
• 1:18:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: As he was kind of winding down in his career, where do you all believe the Clayt Kerschel market does as he goes into the Hall of Fame in the user net?
• 1:18:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love the Clayt and Kerschel market.
• 1:18:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love that generation of first moment autos.
• 1:18:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're just so cool.
• 1:18:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's really difficult to find them with nice autos on them still.
• 1:18:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would be loading up on Clayt and Kerschel.
• 1:18:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I struggle with pictures just in general because I think of a guy like Greg Maddox and I think of a guy like Randy Johnson.
• 1:18:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, two pictures to me and Roger Climins that, you know, regardless of Climins, those three pictures to me when I was growing up, Maddox Climins and Randy Johnson.
• 1:18:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: like ice water in their veins and their their their cards just don't do that much and so I struggle with the pitcher market because historically pitchers cards just don't get the kind of love and respect that the hitters market do but there could be the argument that they're undervalued in general
• 1:19:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that they see kind of resurgence, you know, as we go into the future, because those guys and encourage all certainly do this well, this is an interesting, this is an interesting topic that Brent not talked about before what the end of an era we may never see guys like Scherzer or Birdlander and Kerschel ever again, is the way that the game has changed.
• 1:19:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a very interesting group of guys that are going out here and where they're going to end in the all-time numbers.
• 1:19:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: It really is the end of an era.
• 1:19:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's crazy.
• 1:19:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Overlander, Kursha, Steyon MVP World Series Rings.
• 1:19:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the thing to remember about Maddox and those guys, they don't have first boomin' autos, they don't have rare and serious cards.
• 1:19:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: with low serial numbering to five like a red, they don't have super fractures.
• 1:19:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you just have to remember that some of this stuff is because of the sets and because of the way that card market has changed, that these guys have cards and those, you know, those older guys like Maddox just don't even have those cards.
• 1:20:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what it drives it.
• 1:20:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, brim man, I can't thank you enough for jumping on with this, like I said, what to do this again, because I have a list of questions we didn't get to, but I want to keep our episode tight for a four listeners,
• 1:20:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: for that.
• 1:20:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Follow me.
• 1:20:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Barry Bombs, man.
• 1:20:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm ready.
• 1:20:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Got to find that essential credentials now.
• 1:20:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:20:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Good to go.
• 1:20:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, friends.
• 1:20:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of SportsCard CEO Brent.
• 1:20:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for joining on friends.
• 1:20:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jack Brent out on Instagram.
• 1:20:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Eat value investor.
• 1:20:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Brent wear.
• 1:20:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Good buddy.
• 1:20:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Friend of the show.
• 1:20:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you guys so much for tuning in.
• 1:20:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you all next week.