Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Young, Pregnant Mom, 21, Chased Through House, Sliced Open To Get Baby

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Young, Pregnant Mom, 21, Chased Through House, Sliced Open To Get Baby · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young mom to
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: be found murdered, her unborn baby gone. How can that be?
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: The mommy's found murdered, the unborn baby is missing because
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: the baby has been surgically cut from mommy's stomach. It
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: sounds like a sci fi novel, a horror story, but
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: it's not. I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation at
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Serious Sex sim one eleven. Take a listen to this.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Polis are investigating after a woman was found dead in
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: her home after her unborn child was removed from her
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  Speaker 1: womb Friday morning. Belisa New Boston, which is about twenty
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: four miles west of Texas, Arcana, say they responded around
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  Speaker 1: ten twenty in the morning. The woman was found dead
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  Speaker 1: inside the home. Right now, details are limited, but the
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: New Boston Police Department and Texas Rangers are investigating. Jess
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Brooks makes a nine one one call to Texas Police
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  Speaker 1: around ten twenty on a Friday morning in October. Brooks
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  Speaker 1: has just found her daughter, Reagan Simmons Hancock, lying face
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: down in her bloody living room. According to police, there
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: is blood throughout the house on the floor, furniture, walls, appliances,
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  Speaker 1: and other items. Hancock is found with a large cut
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  Speaker 1: across her abdomen. Twenty one year old Hancock is nearly
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: eight months pregnant with her second child, but the child
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  Speaker 1: is gone. Hancock's three year old daughter, however, has been
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  Speaker 1: left alone with her dying mother. You were just you
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: and our friends at CBS eleven in Dallas Fort Worth
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: and our friends at crime online dot com who jogged
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: my memory? I forgot that little tidbit. The three year
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: old daughter is left in the home with dead mommy.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Mommy's tummy cut open and the baby gone. Was the
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: three year old daughter there at the time of the murder?
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  Speaker 1: Did she witness her own mother being murdered and the
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: baby removed from the tummy? I mean, I can't remember
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: things at age two. This child could be close to four.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: We know she's three. What did she see and what
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: was she remember? But back to the case in chief,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: the murder of the victim, Reagan Simmons Hancock with me
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: an all star panel to make sense of what we
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  Speaker 1: know right now. First of all, to Jack's Miller, writer
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: with Oxygen dot Com, true crime author one book hell
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: In the Heartland murder, meth and the case of two
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  Speaker 1: missing girls. Okay, with that said, Jack's Miller, I'm thinking
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: about Reagan Simmons Handcock. This takes place in New Boston, Texas.
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  Speaker 1: What can you tell me about New Boston, Texas? Well,
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  Speaker 1: New Boston's kind of like your typical Eastern Texas town.
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  Speaker 1: There's Chili, there's rodeos, there's Jesus, it's it's everything. Whoa, whoa,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: whoa Wait wait, wait a minute. No offense to anybody
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: talking or listening, but I for one do not want
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: to hear Jesus Christ thrown in with a rodeo in
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Chili's restaurant. Okay, not kidding. So I was just back
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: it up, Jimmy about New Boston, Texas. So it's just
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: talent Eastern Texas. It's about five thousand people, you know. Sorry, Jackson,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I'm actually really not trying to give you a hard time.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: It just sounds that way. What do you mean it's
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: a typical East Texas town. I mean, I've been to Texas,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: but I certainly have not been all over Texas. That
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: would take a long time. What's typical Eastern Texas town? Well,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I was just basing it on my own experience driving
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: through eastern Texas. You know, New Boston is a town
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: with rodeos and chili cookoffs and former markets. It's about
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: five thousand people. That sounds pretty good to me. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I love a good rodeo and I love a good
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  Speaker 1: chili cookoff. That's one of the reasons I belong to
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  Speaker 1: my little United Methodist churches. We have chili cookoffs all
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  Speaker 1: the time. So what's the population? I mean, I'm sorry,
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  Speaker 1: you just said about five thousand. So this is a
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  Speaker 1: small town. I'm asking for a reason. I'm not just
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: giving you a hard time. Cheryl McCollum joining me, forensics expert,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: founder of Cold Case Research Institute. You can find her
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: a cold case crimes dot org. This is not a
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  Speaker 1: cold case, but Cheryl and I go way back. We
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: have different accounts of how we first met. She claims
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: it was at three am, not at a bar, but
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  Speaker 1: at a crime scene. Cheryl McCollum. The reason I'm grilling
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Jack's miller on where the incident happened, and we're talking
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: about a young pregnant mom dead, whether stomach sliced open,
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  Speaker 1: it's because the smaller the population, the easier it should
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  Speaker 1: be logically speaking, to find the perp. Explain, well, your
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: suspect pool is going to be very small. If you've
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: only got five thousand people and half for women, you're
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: already down to only twenty five hundred people. And then
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: you've got to take the age you know, eighty and
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: above and you know maybe a sixteen and below. You're
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: looking at a very small group of people that might
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  Speaker 1: be involved here. What we're also looking at is where
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: the home was located. If it was way out in
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  Speaker 1: a rural area, or was it in a neighborhood. Is
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: that neighborhood known for break ins or anything like that,
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  Speaker 1: or was it a really safe place to be? How
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: active was she in the community, church, work, friends, things
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  Speaker 1: of that nature. So again, your suspect pool here is
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: going to be very small. You know what about Yes
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: you can, but I want to give cherylle I think
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: the last time she was with us, I coota might
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  Speaker 1: not once but twice. I agree with everything you just said,
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  Speaker 1: especially about church and work because let's just say she
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: worked at the mall. Okay, I used to work at
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  Speaker 1: the mall. At Sears, you come in contact with a
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  Speaker 1: lot of people and a lot of people see you
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  Speaker 1: that you don't realize are seeing you. And another thing
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: about New Boston that Jackson Miller from Austin dot Com
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  Speaker 1: is telling us, Yes, it's a small town of five thousand,
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  Speaker 1: but how do I know how many people in the
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  Speaker 1: metro area come there to go to o' charlies and
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  Speaker 1: Chilies and Applebee's and the mall or whatever else might
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  Speaker 1: be there. I know in my county seat, Bib County
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  Speaker 1: making we lived far far outside of the county seat,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: which is making out in rural Bib County, unincorporated Bib
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  Speaker 1: and we had a thirty minute drive just to get
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: to McDonald's. So that was for you and far between.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: But when you take into account there's five thousand people
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  Speaker 1: living Indy Boston all around it, people could be coming
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  Speaker 1: in and depending on where she went to church and
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: where she worked and her involvement in the community, like
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum was just saying, many more people could have
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: seen her and identified her. And then we've gotten the Internet.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: On top of that jump in dodgr Bethany, let me
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: ensure you, Bethany, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renowned psychoanalyst
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: joining us out of LA. You can find her at
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. She's a star in the
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: new Netflix showed Bleeding Empire. Hit me, Hey, Nancy, you
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: already stole my thunder. I was about to mention the internet.
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  Speaker 1: This is a twenty one year old mom, and so
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: we have to include in the suspect pull her internet presence.
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  Speaker 1: Did she have Facebook, did she have Instagram? Did she
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  Speaker 1: have Twitter? And what were her relationships outside of that
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: small community. I know a lot of young people who
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: grew up in small communities are desperate to have a
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  Speaker 1: broader reach. They want to know about the big cities.
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  Speaker 1: They want to know about um celebrity life. They want
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: to know who lives in other counties. And so we
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: don't know was she married, was she single? Um? Was
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: she eating? Was she eating somebody online? Had she met
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: somebody online? So these are other factors we would want
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: to look at. You know, you said that if you
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: work like a Charlie's or fears that other people might
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: camp come in and know, oh Charlie's, oh, oh Charlie Okay,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: hey oh, I'm gonna just put you and Jack's Miller
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: in the same pot and let you stew. Okay, Jesus
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  Speaker 1: Rodeo and Chilies. Yeah, I'm on you. I am on
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: you like a cheap suit girl. The two eli in
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Southern Charlies. Well, if you have never been to a Charlie's,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: you're missing the best yeast rolls ever made. So what
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  Speaker 1: were you saying about Oh Charlie. Well, what I was
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: saying about Oh Charlie's is that it is a good
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  Speaker 1: point that if you work in an establishment like that,
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  Speaker 1: if you hang out there, people might come in and
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  Speaker 1: know you and recognize you, but you do not remember them.
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  Speaker 1: But sometimes it's the same with the Internet. If you're
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  Speaker 1: accepting every single friend request, if you put your photos
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: and your videos out there, a lot of people may
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  Speaker 1: have become attached to her where she had no relationship
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  Speaker 1: with them. Okay, you know, doctor Bethany, when you were
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: talking about the Internet, you mentioned Facebook, you mentioned instant
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I think you did. I know you mentioned Twitter, but
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: you know what you didn't mention? Be real? Be real,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: be real. I get all my Internet knowledge from my
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: fourteen year old twins. That's the new thing. Be real. Okay,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: you take a quick video or picture of yourself and
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  Speaker 1: supposedly without any hair and makeup in real life, and
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  Speaker 1: you post it. You gotta get on that, doctor Bethany.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: You know Del Carson joining me, high profile lawyer out
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: of Jacksonville and former fed with the FBI, author of
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: a rest proof yourself. You can find him Adel carsonal
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Law dot com. Dell what we're doing right now, it
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  Speaker 1: reminds me so much of my years as a prosecutor.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I like to go up to the Appellate Division where
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: the brain trust was. I actually got to write appeals
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: for many years as well, and taught at lunch or
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: they'd always be sitting around at a big long table
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: and in the DA's office. We had our own set
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: of you know OCGA Official Code of Georgia Annitated, the
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Georgia Supreme Courts, Southeastern case Law, the Georgia Appellate Court rulings,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: so they could do their research sitting right there instead
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: of going to the law library. I would love going
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: up there and getting into it with them about whatever
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  Speaker 1: case I was getting ready when I had time. What
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: we're doing right now, talking about the area, the Oh Charlie's,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: the Chili's where she worked, where she went to school,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: the crime rate, the location, all that matters. It's not
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: just idle chit chat. It's how you work a case
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: if you got any brains anyway. But the most important
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: thing we're all kind of missing, and that is that
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: ed child is missing. And there's only in my book,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: there's only one way this actually happens. And as an
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: agent and as a police officer, I've handled cases just
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: like this, and it can only mean one thing. Somebody
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  Speaker 1: wanted that child. They didn't necessarily care whether the mother
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  Speaker 1: died or not. They wanted the child. That's the trail
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: you have to follow. Hey, Dale Carson, everybody jump in. Also,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: I mean doctor Michelle Dupree, pathologist, medical examiner and author
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Everybody jump in. I remember sitting
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: out in It's like a church in a courtroom. Sometimes
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  Speaker 1: you've got all the state's witnesses and state supporters, victims
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: family supporters on one side, and all the defendant's family
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: and supporters on the other side, and the press somewhere
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  Speaker 1: in the mix. Like in a church at a wedding,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: the bride side is on one side and the grim's
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: relatives are on the other side. I will never forget
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: in the Scott Peterson trial when Mark gary Goes blurted
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: something out about maybe Lacy was kidnapped by a woman
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: who wanted to cut up in her stomach and steal
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: baby Connor. I nearly fell off my chair. I got
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I really mean look from the sheriff too. She was
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: just dying to throw somebody out of the courtroom. I
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: remember thinking how far fetched that was, and actually it's
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: highly statistically unlikely. And of course Connor was found with
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Lacy in a twenty four hour cycle when they washed
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: up on the San Francisco Bay. Sure, so that didn't
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: happen in that case. But Garagos was not half wrong, right.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: I gotta give the devil's due because we are seeing
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: this more and more and more where a mother is
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: actually murdered and sliced open to get the baby. Take
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at Katie a l New
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: evidence suggest the victim was not killed the way investigators
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: originally believed. Originally, twenty one year old Reagan Simmons Hancock
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: was believed to have died from massive blood loss due
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: to slashing and cutting. A scalpel was later recovered from
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: her neck during an autopsy. According to an examiner hired
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: by the state. Hancock died from being strangled rather than
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: being cut. Okay, hold on straight out to Jack Smeller,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: our special guest joining us from Oxygen dot com. She's
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: a true crime author. Acts. You see a mom lying
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: in the floor with her dad covered, the whole area
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  Speaker 1: covered in crime, saying, her three year old little girl
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: sitting with mommy god knows how long, and her baby
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: having been cut out of her stomach. Zam, we are
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: just learning a scalpel was later recovered from her neck
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: daring an autopsy. I mean, I would have thought the
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: scalpel would be used to cut her tummy open, but
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: her net was sliced as well. It's it's it's really
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: a really horrific her ricks to crime. There's there's blood everywhere,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: you know. Now they're saying that she was strangled. You know,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: she had the scalpel in her neck, and you know,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: just just to put it a little bit in a context, here,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: we have a killer who's out there. But remember New
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Boston's very close to three state borders. It's not far
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: from Oklahoma, it's not far from Arkansas, and it's not
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: far from Louisiana. So so That's another thing to consider too,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: that whoever did this, it might be out of the
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: seat by now. Okay, Jack's miller just changed the whole
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: equation right there. When you were talking about Eastern Texas
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: before I got off on my chili, your ant wasn't
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: thinking about the significance of what you just said. I
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: mean to me, East Texas. Texas is so big. I
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: didn't realize how close to the border it was to
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: three states. And you know, and no fault of theirs.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Police normally don't like the Texas police are going to
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: be looking. They're not going to call Arkansas and Oklahoma
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: go hey, this just happened. It's the cross border communication
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: between law enforcement is not great through no fault of
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: their own. And I can't stress that enough. Cheryl, jump
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: in on that. Nancy. Here's the thing that just leads
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: out at me more than anything else, and that's when
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: law enforcement and their affidavit put there were blood on
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: the floor, furniture, walls, and appliances. The word appliance. Nobody's
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: going to keep their toaster in the living room, which
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: is where the victim was found. That means this either
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: started in the kitchen or another room. And went throughout
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: the house. She was stabbed over one hundred times, baby
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: was cut out of her, A hammer was used to
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: bludge in her head. Any one of these things, the
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: scapel in the neck, the hammer blodge into her head,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the hundred stab wounds, the baby being cut from her,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: any of those things would have killed her. This was
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: not a quick, clean easy I'm going to knock her out,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: cut the baby, and I'm out. You know what, Cheryl,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: the way you just described that, really, I'm just thinking, Cheryl,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Remember and I was pregnant. Remember you threw me that
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: big baby shower in Atlanta, And there at the end,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: I mean I could barely walk. I didn't realize what
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: because I couldn't breathe. I didn't realize what bad shape
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: I was with all those blood clots. And I'm just
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: thinking of this mom, she's eight months pregnant. Describe that
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: same one more time, Sharyl McCollum. Blood was on the floor, furniture, walls,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: and appliances. So there was blood throughout the house. So
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: that tells you we'd like cast off patterns, maybe chasing
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: her with a weapon that already had blood on it.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: It paints a very sinister picture, because again, this was
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: not fast. This was a horrific scene. Time stories with
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. One hundred stab wounds, a scalpel still in
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: the victim's neck, removed at autopsy, and now we find
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: out all the stabs are not even the cod cause
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: of death. Doctor Michelle dupre joining me, pathologist, medical examiner,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Okay, doctor Dupree, jump
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: in Andancy, this was absolutely overkill. I mean, there's just
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: no other way to explain it. Three different types of
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: manners or causes of death, you know, strangulation, the bludgeoning
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: with the hammer, and the hundred stablins. This is crazy.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: This was frenetic. This was just absolutely overkill. And you
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: know what else is interesting to you, Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanist,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: turning us out of LA. I know this isn't your
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: normal rodeo drive patient worried about her lubitans. But now
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: that I hear doctor Michelle Dupree and Michelle Cheryl McCollum
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: describing the crime scene and Jack's as well from oxygen,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: there's no way this little girl, the three year old,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: didn't say probably the whole thing, Mommy, running from room
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: to room, screaming. Blood in the back of blood in
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: the kitchen, on the appliance's, blood on furniture in the floor. Nancy,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I had kind of like a fantasy or a daydream,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: or a guess hypothesis, whatever the right word is about
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: how this happened. Whoever killed this poor twenty one year
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: old pregnant mom with little three year old and ran
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: after her from room to room must have been romancing
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: this mother in some way. I don't mean in a
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: sexual romantic way, but I mean must have befriended her.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Must have come to the front door with an agenda,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: sat down, had tea, head coffee, whatever was chatting with her.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: And whoever did this was either extraordinarily angry or was
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: an amateur and was just desperate for any way to
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: kill this mom and get access to the fetus. So
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: when you think of chasing her from room to room,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: the scalpel and the neck over one hundredth stab marks.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: This was a crime that was preplanned from the standpoint
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: that the perpetrator wanted to kill another and gain access
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: to the baby. But this person, the perpetrator, did not
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: know how to kill a human being. The perpetrator will
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: try one thing, if they tried another and then another.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: This poor pregnant woman is running from room to room,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: and this is a late stage pregnancy, and the perpetrator
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: is just you know, it's thinking about one way to
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: kill her, and when that doesn't work, she thinks about
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: another way, you know, grabbing appliances, throwing her against the wall,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: stabbing her. Not only is it brutal, but it does
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: I talked to Duprea's right. The word frenetic, overkill, ill strategized, amateur.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: It has a very razy quality. I think more of
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: a frenzy, of a frenzy, That's what I'm thinking about. Guys.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Killer and disorganized. Killers are not organized. They don't plan things.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: The only thing that happened here is they've gotten away.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: That's the one thing that's happened. And if you're going
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: to take a child from a mother's womb, you want
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: to keep the mother alive as long as you can
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: to secure the life of the child. And that did
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: not happen here, because, as you point out, anger and
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: hostility was at a maximum level when this event transpired.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: You know, I got to jump in. Okay, it does
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: appear amateurs to me, because again, this killer left behind weapons,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: left behind the victim's body, and left behind a witness.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: A three year old can give a lot of information. Furthermore,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: whoever did this had to have some pre planning. We're
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: going to show up somewhere with a newborn. There's a backstory,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: so there was premeditation. You're absolutely right, it's still disorganized,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: and disorganized means that very thing that they leave evidence
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: that there's no there maybe preptraining. Actual course, there's disorganization,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: which is clearly evident from the scene that we hear about. Guys,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: when you are analyzing any case, you're trying to put
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: all the pieces of the puzzle together. The main piece
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: of the puzzle. It's not necessarily the crime scene, but
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: it's the victim that is the main piece of your puzzle.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at k SLA. The
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: twenty one year old was wife to Homer Hancock and
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: mom to three year old Kenley Greece, and she was
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: also expecting another baby, girl, who she named Braxlin Sage.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: She became a mother early, but after she had Kenley,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: she went on to get her high school diploma and
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: she was aspiring to eventually get in. She was going
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: to start taking classes again in the spring, and she
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: wanted to go into nursing eventually. Never quit smiling, never
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: quit trying and moving on and tackling the next hurdle.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: The most beautiful person, her spirit, her personality, everything about
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: her was beautiful. A piece of us is gone now,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Emily Simmons says, her sister Reagan is the glue that
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: keeps her family together. She always held us close and
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: she's holding us closer now. For now, the family is
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: leaning on their feet. Just prayers. All we can ask
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: for is prayer. Everywhere I look, I see her our
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: friends at KSLA speaking to family members in their grief.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: And you know, doctor Bethany, it's not just grief. It's
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: not just suddenly losing someone so young. And you know,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, you got a hand to this lady victim. Reagan.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: She has a baby, she chooses to keep the baby,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: She team mom, and she goes after having the baby,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: goes back and finishes her high school degree and then
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: is starting nursing classes in the spring. I mean, this
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: woman is amazing, Nanthy, She's remarkable, and in terms of
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: the family and the aftermath, of this tragedy. You know,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: one of the definitions of trauma is when the unimaginable happens.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: As much as we're talking about this and trying to
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: make sense of it, it's still the unimaginable. There's no
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: way for this family to process. And as I said
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: so many times on your show, grieving, it's not just
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: recognizing the loss of the present in the past. It's
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: realizing that you'll never have a future with this person.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: They'll never see her mother, the unborn baby, raised her
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: three years world go on to become a professional nurse.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: They'll never see her get married, they'll never see her graduations.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: So they have to come to terms with the future.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: And you know, Nancy, this perpetrator not only stold the
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: life of a mother and an unborn baby, think of
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: all the patients that this young mother was going to
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: help as a nurse. She's robbed society of a very
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: important person as well. So the search is on, police
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: make public, the name of the victim. In the community
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: is in shock and a reeling. Women are afraid. No
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: one knows how to make sense of it. Hey does
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: anybody on this panel? Of course, you do remember that
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Timothy mcveig case, Okay City bomber. Okay, he murdered yea
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: volumes of people. I remember it was in the Alfred
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Murra building in Oklahoma City and there was a nursery
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: in that building by the way that he bombed. And Cheryl,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: do you remember the coinkie dink? The coincidence of how
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: he was caught? Do you remember how he was caught?
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Please say no, I can never stump you woman. Go ahead.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: I believe it was a traffic style. Yes, it was.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Tell light, Tell light, Tell light. You know, I'll tell
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: lights are made up of like five, seven, eight little
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: pieces of red and one of those little pieces was
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: out and they pulled him over and they found all
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: sorts of evidence of the bombing. So the search is
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: on for the killer of this young mom, Reagan Simmons, handcocked,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: just twenty one years old. And then what a coinkie dink?
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: A coincidence? Take a listen to our friends at crime Online.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: A Texas State trooper pulls over a car for speeding
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: and inside he finds Taylor Parker giving CPR to a
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: newborn Barker tells the trooper that she has just given
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: birth on the side of the road, but the baby
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: isn't breathing. The trooper says he could see an umbilical
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: cord connected to the infant coming out of the woman's pants.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Parker and the newborn are rushed by life net ems
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: to McCurtain Memorial Hospital in Idabelle, Oklahoma, where the baby
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: dies and it's also where Parker, who has seemingly just
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: given birth, refuses to be checked out by doctors. Well,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: sanalis what we just heard from our friends at Crime Online.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Texas State trooper pulls over a vehicle for speeding, finds
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: a woman, twenty nine year old Taylor Parker, giving CPR
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: to an infant. She says she just gave birth on
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: the side of the road, but the baby's not breathing.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: The trooper could see the umbilical cord still connected to
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: the infant, coming out of Parker's pants. Okay, wait, wait,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: I'm taking all this in rush her to the hospital,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: where she refuses to be examined by doctors. Jack's Miller
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: joining me, investigative reporter with Oxygen dot Com and true
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: crime author, tell me about the treop we're pulling over
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: this woman. What do we know? So this happened in Dacalb, Texas.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: And you know, it's like you said, she was speeding.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: And it was around that same time, like within minutes,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: that the victim's mother had called policing. I just found
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: my daughter. She's dead. There's blood everywhere. And then this
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: is kind of happening simultaneously and pretty much Taylor has
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: the baby on her lap. She's like, my baby's not breathing.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: I just gave birth on the side of the road.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: And she went as far as to put the babies
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: or the mother's placenta down her pants. Okay, walk and stop,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: repeat very slowly for us, Chili aiding, Oh Charlie, loving
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: much am, What did you just say about the placenta.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: So when the state trooper found Taylor with the baby
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: on her lap, she says, I just gave birth. And
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: of course you know that Taylor had stuffed the mother's
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: placenta regan placenta down her trousers to keep up with appearances. Okay,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: you know, believe it or not, doctor Michelde Free. A
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: lot of people don't know what a placenta is. Explain
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the placenta is actually what nourishes and feeds the baby.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: It's attached to the inside of the mother's uterus, and
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: of course attached by unbecal cord to the fetus, and
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: that's what delivers blood and everything, all the nourishment. What
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: does it look like. It looks like a disk, probably
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: about twelve or so inches in diameter. It's maybe an
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: inch er inch in a hastick, and it's sort of spongy,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: and it's spongey because it's full of blood. This would
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: be very messy, very very very messy. Where is it
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: inside the womb? So inside the limit is inside the uterus,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: and it is attached usually to the posterior wall of
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: the uterus itself, and the umbilical core connects to it
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: or through it, it connects to it. So one end
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: of the umbilical cord is connected to the baby, one
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: end of the umbilical cord is connected to the placenta,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: and the placenta is attached on the other side to
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: the posterior wall of the uterus. Time Stories with Nancy
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Grace and Jack's Miller from Ocean dot Com. You're telling
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: me basically, bloody blanket. The placenta is stuffed down Taylor
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Parker's pants. That's correct. The feet trooper noted that the
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: umbilical cord was still in her trier's movement, of course,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: that it would still be attached to the placenta, you know,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: which would be natural if this was her child. You know,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: you deliver baby, you deliver the placenta soon after. But
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: then they took her to the hospital via ambulance, and
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: she refused to have an examination. Dodgor Besani Marshall or
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: psychoanalyst Beverly Hills, don't tune up about insanity, don't because
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: this woman had the cunning to try to trick the
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: state traper by shoving the umbilical chord and the placenta
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: down her own pants. Another woman's child's a millical chord
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: and placenta to pull off her lie stuffed it down
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: her own pants. Nancy. He said, this what we see
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: in all criminals. They don't see in themselves what we
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: see in them. I mean, she's not psychiatrically, Hills, she's
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: not mentally ill, but she is really disturbed the fact
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: that she stuff the placenta into her pants. She's driving
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: to the hospital. She doesn't think that she'll be subjected
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: to an examination. She cuts the baby out of the
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: twenty one year old mother's body with a scalpel I believe,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: or a nice some sort of instrument. She doesn't think
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: she's actually harming the baby, not only the physical harm,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: but the psychological harm of that kind of a traumatic birth.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is the mother who really I'm sorry
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: I said mother, I mean a potential mother. This is
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: somebody who wants to be a mother so badly that
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: she has this tunneling effect that all she can think
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: of is getting access to the baby. But she's not
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: thinking about any other factor in terms of the medical aspect,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: the biological aspects, the survival of the infant. Can you
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: imagine her being a mother in real wife? What a disaster. Actually,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: she had children, Believe it or not. This woman had children.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: She knows what it's like to be pregnant. So what more.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: And I'm glad brought that up, Bethday, because this is
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: a whole another layer of subterfuge. And to me, it
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: makes her even more evil because she knows what the
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: victim was going through into pregnancy. She had children, So
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: why why this? Why another child? Does she need another
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: child so desperately? Why a baby? Why murder to get
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: a baby. Well, take a listen to our friends at
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: k SLA attorneys said Parker committed the crimes not because
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: she wanted a baby, but because she did not want
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: to lose her boyfriend. Parker was not able to carry
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: a child because of a hysterectomy. Parker offered them a
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars to be a Sarahgan mother. Parker ordered
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: from the Internet a suit which made her look pregnant,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: faking that condition for nearly ten months, all the while
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: hunting for a victim. Okay, I try to let that,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: so can let that percolate for a moment. She did
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: not want to lose her boyfriend, did not tell him
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: she had had a hysterect to me, offered friends one
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars to be a surrogate mother, and ordered
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: an internet pregnancy suit, all the while hunting for a victim. Well,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: number one, I guess she's lost her boyfriend now. But
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, can you imagine a ten month search for
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: just the right pregnant victim, Nancy, I'm going to go
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: back to what I started a little while ago, and
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: that's this premeditation. This person had to lie about being pregnant.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: So did she have a fake pregnancy test? Did she
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: make fake doctor's appointments? At what extent did she go
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: to again? Doctor Marshall mentioned social media? She took the
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: social media? Did she gain weight? The thing you just
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: played said that she had one of those fake baby momps. Oh,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: there's so much more, Cheryl Jackson Miller joining me from
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Austen dot com. Isn't it true? She is accused of
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: faking ultrasounds and even having a gender reveal party. It
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: was no. She went to such great length. She had
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: this this big gender reveal everything you just said, and
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: then beyond that, on the day that she went to
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: the hospital with with this baby, she had her boyfriend.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: He was supposed to come because she said, oh, I'm
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: going to be induced into labor. So he was going
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: to the hospital thinking that she was going to deliver
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: her baby. And can he add Danny knows she's been
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: pregnant for ten months. Well, you know, I guess, I
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: guess he had believed that. And on top of that,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: she allegedly was going to she she had planned to
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: do this bomb threat at the hospital, and I guess
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: that was a way to kind of keep up, you know,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: with with concealing this big secret, white white, white white.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: What bomb threat? Yes, there was a bomb threat that
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: was just released. She was going to make a bomb
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: threat to keep this this big baby thing of secrets allegedly.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, when you look at her, I'm looking at
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: her Facebook photo, she just she's gorgeous. She's just okay.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: The evil that can lurk in the mind of a
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: human is amazing to me. Guys, take a listen. What
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: more we know about her plotting and scheming. Take a
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: listen to our cut fourteen our friends from Katie a l.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: One friend testified about how Parker was obsessed with her pregnancy.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: This afternoon. The prosecution showed numerous posts on Parker's Facebook
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: page where she claimed to be pregnant and shared a
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: picture and shared pictures of a baby bump and a
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: gender reveal party. The jury also saw evidence in her
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: testimony Sean Parker was Facebook friends went the victim. Aha,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: there's a connection. Chela Parker became Facebook friends with the
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: pregnant mom Reagan Simmons, Hancock and more from Katie a
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: l Listen. Data from her device in Internet searches showed
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: she ordered a fake baby belly in a customized fake
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: ultrasound skin online and posted dozens of baby belly photos
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: and selfies. She starked ob clinics in East Texas and
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: Shreveport when investigator head she was looking for places where
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: she could find pregnant women and even looked up license
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: plates of patients coming out of clinics as her fake
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: due date grew closer. She also searched online for information
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: on private adoptions and out of hospital birth certificates. In
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: the days before the murder, she watched videos about how
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: to do a c section, examine a newborn, and search
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: for where Reagan Simmons lived and the hours before the murder,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: cell phone data showed Parker used a spoof cell phone
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: number to contact Reagan Hancock Okay Deale Carson, high profile
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: lawyer out of Jacksonville and former FBI agent. That's a
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: lot of evidence, deal, Carson, ooh, it is, and it
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: also demonstrates that they were active on the Internet. So
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: that means that the use of cell phone data, the
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: use of other mechanisms to establish where people were at
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: a certain time is going to be an immense value
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: to the investigation. As you're comment about boys not understanding
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: that ten months. I had a case years ago in
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: eighty seven involving a similar matter where a fellow was
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: both believed that his girlfriend, who actually did what we're
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: talking about here essentially, was in fact didn't know. I mean,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: boys don't calculate like women do when it comes to
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: those months. So you're just you really don't know and
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: you don't understand. So these men typically know nothing about
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: what's really going on, and typically they don't get charged
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: in these kinds of cases. How this guy, I didn't
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: notice that that was a fake pregnant seat bump on
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Amazon Jump in Doctor Bethany really quickly. I treated a
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: lady who had what's called pseudosciasis, that means a false pregnancy.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: She wanted once in my practice about ten years ago.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: She wanted to be pregnant so desperately that her belly
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: actually began to grow. It's a thing. And she wasn't
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: in a relationship, she was single, but the desperation to
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: have a baby actually had a biological impact on her body. Sadly,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: these cases, which you said earlier in the show, are
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: statistically rare, often follow a common pattern. You usually have
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: a woman who sometimes she has children, sometimes she doesn't,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: who needs a love object, wants to hold on to
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: the love of a man. She imagines that if she
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: says she's going to have a baby, she'll have a
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: better chance of securing his love. So what we see
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: if there's a nine or ten or eleven months pattern
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: of getting fakes on a grams, going on the internet,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: ordering baby, having the gender party, having baby showers, and
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, at the ninth months rot row,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: they have to produce a baby, and they become extremely desperate, aggressive, ruthless,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: and they'll do anything to procure a baby, even it's
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: like what we're covering today, you know, murdering and attacking
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: a prating a woman, stalking ob clinics in East Texas
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: and Shreveport, looking at license plates of patients coming out
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: of the clinics to jacksonmill are joining us from Oxygen
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: dot com. Jacks, where does the trial stand now? So
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: they have done their opening arguments. They say that the
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: trial is going to be lasting around a month. So
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: we are learning a lot of new details about the case,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: and I think that there's plenty more to come. So
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: we'll just have to wait and see where this goes.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: I guess we wait as justice unfolds in this double murder.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace com story, signing off GOODBYESD