Latest / Rugby Direct / Rugby Direct Episode 266: All Blacks selection winners and losers

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Rugby Direct Episode 266: All Blacks selection winners and losers · Rugby Direct

0:09
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk ZB. Follow this
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Speaker 1: and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
0:16
Speaker 2: Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
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Speaker 2: with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by Newstalk ZB.
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Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Forklift Solutions, lifting you
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Speaker 3: and your business to a higher level. Elliot Smith with me.
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Speaker 3: Liam Napier, we took a week off just to recharge
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Speaker 3: the batteries, et cetera. Went to the sunny Sunshine Coast
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Speaker 3: and saw rain for a few days, but recharged and
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Speaker 3: ready to go for the end of year tour. Liam,
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Speaker 3: and we have an all-black squad as well.
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Speaker 4: We do.
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Speaker 5: She's all go. The charge to the end of the year.
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Speaker 6: It all builds to the First Nations Championship final.
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Speaker 4: Are you excited?
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Speaker 3: I think the jury's out on whether this competition means
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Speaker 3: anything to at all. It's a bit of a, I
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Speaker 3: can see why they've started it, but it's a bit
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Speaker 3: of a, you know, farce. You should be able to meet,
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Speaker 3: the top two teams in the world should be able
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Speaker 3: to meet. I get the hemisphere thing, and I get
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Speaker 3: they want to protect the World Cup and make that
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Speaker 3: the sacrosanct, you know, ultimate decider of the world champions. But,
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Speaker 3: you know, if the top two teams on points are
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Speaker 3: from South Africa and New Zealand, regardless of who they've played,
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Speaker 3: you know, they've had to play the Northern Hemisphere team,
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Speaker 3: then they should meet in the finals.
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Speaker 6: It probably seems to make a habit of making formats difficult,
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Speaker 6: don't they? Whether it's the draw for a World Cup
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Speaker 6: or finding the best two teams. I'm like you. I
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Speaker 6: do like the concept of crowning a champion. It creates interest.
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Speaker 6: It builds throughout the year. It does cultivate more meaning
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Speaker 6: in these established test windows.
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Speaker 4: But.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, at the moment you'd say clearly, and things can change,
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Speaker 6: but South Africa and the All Blacks look the two
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Speaker 6: best teams, and I think France at full strength are
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Speaker 6: pretty close, and I would say probably a gap to
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Speaker 6: the rest.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, that may change over the next three weeks,
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Speaker 3: and we may be sitting here with an exit face
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Speaker 3: and going, actually the All Blacks aren't in the top
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Speaker 3: two in the world, and Ireland are, or England are,
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Speaker 3: or whatever it might be, but yeah, I think it's
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Speaker 3: a flawed sort of concept, and look, there's the Hemisphere
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Speaker 3: Trophy as well, I'd couldn't give a shit like i
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Speaker 3: think it's a that's a ridiculous concept in and of
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Speaker 3: itself like why should i care that south africa is
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Speaker 3: going to get my southern hemisphere points like we just
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Speaker 3: had a 40 series against them as rugby's greatest rivalry
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Speaker 3: then you're going yeah come on let's beat the northern
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Speaker 3: hemisphere like it feels like they've manufactured a little bit
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Speaker 3: out of it um so i'm not sure it'll mean
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Speaker 3: much if the all blacks win it if whoever wins it.
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Speaker 6: I think that the hemisphere is more relevant for the
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Speaker 6: club comp you know that that hasn't got off the
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Speaker 6: ground yet in terms of a Crusaders, or Hurricanes, sorry,
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Speaker 6: as champions against.
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Speaker 4: Toulouse or Leinster or whoever it may be.
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Speaker 6: That's got far more relevancy and currency, I think, among
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Speaker 6: supporters than the test scene.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 4: Well, we've got that off our chest, so that's important.
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Speaker 5: Good to get some gripes in there.
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: That'll please the listeners that say that some of us
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Speaker 3: moan too much. All Black Squad, what did you make
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Speaker 3: of the names named by Dave Rennie and his selectors?
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Speaker 6: Reasonably predictable, but intriguing nonetheless, isn't it? There's some real
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Speaker 6: fine line calls, some interesting calls, largely on the fringe.
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Speaker 6: When you're talking fourth, fifth lock or the final outside
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Speaker 6: back position, we know there's a massive injury toll, but
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Speaker 6: it is still a very strong squad on paper. One
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Speaker 6: name that jumped out for me was Maui. the Highlanders prop.
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Speaker 6: I like his inclusion. I think he's been picked first
4:00
Speaker 6: and foremost for his scrummaging, but he's a big man.
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Speaker 5: He can hit hard.
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Speaker 6: And in a very small sample size, I like what
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Speaker 6: I saw in South Africa. And with Tyrell Lomax out,
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Speaker 6: it is very intriguing because if the All Blacks were
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Speaker 6: to lose Fletcher Newell, it's probably the one pressure point
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Speaker 6: position maybe other than Akeem Roygut or Geordie Barrett going down. So,
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Speaker 6: he's one guy that I'm really intrigued to see how
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Speaker 6: much game time he gets on this tour.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure he'll play at least well, as you
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Speaker 3: would think, but I think he's got the chance to
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Speaker 3: climb up the ladder pretty quickly if he gets opportunities
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Speaker 3: as well. His name certainly leapt out. A number of
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Speaker 3: injuries that they had to deal with as well, they
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Speaker 3: kept trickling through last week, you know, obviously no Shannon
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Speaker 3: Frizzell for this tour, no Tyrell Lomax, and it sounds
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Speaker 3: like he's been dealing with that for for majority of
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Speaker 3: the year. Leroy Carter's obviously out of this tour, and
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Speaker 3: then Simon Parker unavailable for personal reasons. So I think
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Speaker 3: it's nine players that were unavailable due to injury. You
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Speaker 3: add in Patrick Tuipulotu, who's only back training, running now,
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Speaker 3: so was considered, I guess, was eligible, but probably wasn't
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Speaker 3: close to selection. Billy Proctor as well, not listed as
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Speaker 3: being injured, but hasn't had any rugby, so again, would
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Speaker 3: have been hard to take him on tour. So there's
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Speaker 3: a lot of entries that they've had to contend with
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Speaker 3: this All Blacks coaching group.
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Speaker 4: Oh, massive.
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Speaker 6: And then you look at Ruben Love, and Richie Munger
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Speaker 6: has been included, but Artie Sevier, Luke Jacobson. So when
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Speaker 6: you cast a head to a 33-man Rugby World Cup
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Speaker 6: squad in, what is that? Yeah, I don't know, 10,
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Speaker 6: what's a year away essentially, but by the end of
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Speaker 6: the year it'll be all on in Super Rugby next year.
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Speaker 6: We're already seeing some of these pressure points, aren't we, with,
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Speaker 6: as you mentioned, Patrick Tupelotu, Sam Derry, Amonina Narawa, Dupasi Karifi,
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Speaker 6: these guys missing out, having used 53 players this year,
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Speaker 6: having to trim back to 36.
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Speaker 5: Man, that World Cup squad's going to be hard to pick.
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Speaker 3: It really is, and I think it's going to be
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Speaker 3: a big tour for the likes of, well, Lester Fanganuka,
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Speaker 3: who I'm sure will get to, can he prove that
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Speaker 3: he can play? Both positions, that utility value will be
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Speaker 3: invaluable at the World Cup. If he's able to prove
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Speaker 3: he can do it at test level, you know, in
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Speaker 3: a locking department, Tupou Vi will be in that All
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Speaker 3: Blacks squad barring injury, but the fact he can play
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Speaker 3: blindside offers him you know, some extra points in the bank,
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Speaker 3: I suppose, you know, as you go trying to slim
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Speaker 3: down the squad. So there are little wee storylines within storylines,
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Speaker 3: I guess, on this tour as, you know, you position
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Speaker 3: yourself for this tour. Listifying Onuku, do you think he's capable,
6:42
Speaker 3: I mean, he's listed as a loose four. Do you
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Speaker 3: think he's capable of playing open side at test level?
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Speaker 6: I think the jury's out and he'll have to adapt
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Speaker 6: what he did at Super because, you can't just attack
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Speaker 6: every breakdown and leave holes in the defensive line. So
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Speaker 6: I'm sure there'll be a lot of upskilling that's happening
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Speaker 6: behind the scenes about picking your moments and being effective
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Speaker 6: in what you're doing. But you're a massive fan of
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Speaker 6: the 6-2 bench.
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Speaker 5: I've seen it work really well. I've seen it implode
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Speaker 5: at times as well.
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Speaker 6: Alice Park with the spring box came back to bite
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Speaker 6: them but Leicester's inclusion really does open up that dynamic,
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Speaker 6: and I think that's on for England at Twickenham.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so too. It wouldn't surprise me if
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Speaker 3: he potentially starts against Wales, maybe, and then comes off
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Speaker 3: the bench at Twickenham. Leicester fighting Anuku. I know it's
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Speaker 3: something that Dave Rooney wanted to try at some point,
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Speaker 3: whether it was a tour game or a test match
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Speaker 3: in South Africa. Didn't have the resources they felt to
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Speaker 3: probably do it. Didn't have Leicester fighting Anuku on that tour.
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Speaker 3: they could have shorthanded their backs and had a halfback
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Speaker 3: and a Leroy Carter type potentially and another outside back,
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Speaker 3: but they decided not to. I think as you go
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Speaker 3: north in the conditions that they'll be facing, I think
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Speaker 3: a 6-2 bench does come into play significantly for the
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Speaker 3: All Blacks, and that's where someone like a less defying
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Speaker 3: can be so vital that he can pop up. Essentially,
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Speaker 3: he could be playing open inside, but he can pop
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Speaker 3: up in the back line as well.
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Speaker 6: Is there a danger? We know his upside with ball
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Speaker 6: in hand, carrying... so destructive and the value of having
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Speaker 6: a versatile guy like that. But is there, is there
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Speaker 6: a danger of being a jack of all trades master
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Speaker 6: of none? If you think about him as a midfielder,
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Speaker 6: there's question marks about his defense, um, on the, on
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Speaker 6: the wing, um, maybe lacks a touch of pace and
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Speaker 6: then there's the high ball and open side still learning
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Speaker 6: his craft. So, um, utility value, um, powerful dynamic athletes, um,
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Speaker 6: but we're not necessarily speaking about them as a starter,
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Speaker 6: are we?
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Speaker 3: No, but I think that's the value in a utility
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Speaker 3: is that, and maybe this is where rugby potentially needs
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Speaker 3: to move, is that you might not be running at 100%
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Speaker 3: in all those positions or be able to nail down
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Speaker 3: one of those positions, but if you can offer a
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Speaker 3: versatile range of skills that could see you slot into two,
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Speaker 3: maybe three positions, then at, say, you know, pluck a
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Speaker 3: number out of the 80% or 75%, you might be
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Speaker 3: able to figure out a way to cope with those
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Speaker 3: flaws in a game that gets you the benefits of
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Speaker 3: having him off the bench.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, and we're seeing this across the board. This is
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Speaker 6: nothing new, but it's clearly something that's desirable. Dan Sheehan played,
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Speaker 6: Irish Hooker played number eight for Leinster. Ben Earle's been
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Speaker 6: doing it for England's number eight too. The midfield under Esther,
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Speaker 6: he's in for the Springboks.
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Speaker 4: Corbett Smith is another. Yeah, so there's.
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Speaker 6: Bentami Funa went from prop to lock, which was quite
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Speaker 6: bizarre for his French club. So it's clearly desirable to
10:00
Speaker 6: have that flexibility within a team, and I think players
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Speaker 6: are a lot more open to it these days.
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Speaker 3: Yeah and i think innovation is good for rugby as
10:06
Speaker 3: well and seeing players take on different roles and challenging
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Speaker 3: the norms of rugby i think can only be a
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Speaker 3: healthy thing you know we've been told that supposedly you
10:15
Speaker 3: know numbers six seven and eight don't matter um in
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Speaker 3: terms of their roles um you might have a designated
10:21
Speaker 3: um jersey on your back but you um don't, other
10:27
Speaker 3: than packing down at the scrum, you're sort of expected
10:29
Speaker 3: to do a lot of those duties in the game.
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Speaker 3: So I don't necessarily know that I believe that 100%,
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Speaker 3: but it's kind of the way that rugby's shifting is
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Speaker 3: that there is an opportunity to have different playmakers or
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Speaker 3: different styles.
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Speaker 4: Wearing different jerseys on the park. Yeah, absolutely.
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Speaker 6: What about one of the other, I guess, big fringe
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Speaker 6: talking points? Jamie Hanna has clearly rocketed up the ranks.
10:53
Speaker 6: at lock over Sam Derry and Patrick Tupelo too?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, look, the word was dark arts used by Dave
11:00
Speaker 3: Rennie at his media conference or the dark side of
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Speaker 3: the ball. And I think it's probably an area where
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Speaker 3: Sam Derry probably needs to be a bit more abrasive
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Speaker 3: potentially on both sides of the ball. I think he's
11:17
Speaker 3: good ranging Sam Derry. I don't know that he's quite
11:20
Speaker 3: good at bending the defensive line when it's in tight.
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Speaker 6: Got good soft hands. Does those finesse things well. Great
11:26
Speaker 6: line-out athlete. But, yeah, it's that contact element.
11:30
Speaker 1: Rugby Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier.
11:34
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11:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, which probably leads us on, Napier, to talking about
11:43
Speaker 3: Patrick Tui-Pilotu. I don't know whether he's played his last
11:49
Speaker 3: test with the All Blacks, but it's hard to see him... Look,
11:52
Speaker 3: he had a great test against Ireland in Auckland in July.
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Speaker 3: He was superb. Rangey played some great minutes on both
12:02
Speaker 3: sides of the ball. Didn't have a great tour of
12:04
Speaker 3: South Africa. And, look, he's been a great servant to
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Speaker 3: the All Blacks. But he's going to have to play
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Speaker 3: a big super rugby campaign to get into that established
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Speaker 3: now Barrett, Lord, Hollands, Tupo Vai, now Hannah Mix. You know,
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Speaker 3: I think the question mark is there whether Patrick Dupilotu
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Speaker 3: can get to the World Cup.
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Speaker 5: It's a big question mark.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, I think Scott Barrett's return has changed the dynamic
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Speaker 6: completely there because not only does he do what Paddy
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Speaker 6: does in a similar vein in terms of his ball carrying, he.
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Speaker 5: Brings that experience that Paddy had.
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Speaker 6: So you're right, Patrick coming off a long layoff was
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Speaker 6: superb against Ireland, but we just haven't seen that again.
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Speaker 6: And the question then is, Well, can he back it up?
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Speaker 6: Can he rekindle that? And I guess now he's going
12:53
Speaker 6: to have to wait for an injury, wait till next year.
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Speaker 6: And the locks in general have gone from a position
13:01
Speaker 6: of pressing concern following Sam Whitelock and Brady Retallick. You
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Speaker 6: think about post-World Cup, those guys moving on to now
13:10
Speaker 6: among the most competitive in the whole squad.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.
13:13
Speaker 3: And look, I think my favourite starting combination is Barrett
13:16
Speaker 3: and Hollands. At this point in time, Lorde has played
13:19
Speaker 3: some good rugby this year as well. Tupovai can always
13:22
Speaker 3: switch back in if you all of a sudden find
13:25
Speaker 3: that six. And again, that might be an issue for
13:27
Speaker 3: next year because Peter Lukai is playing some great form
13:30
Speaker 3: as well. So you might need to accommodate Tupovai back
13:32
Speaker 3: in the second row potentially somewhere if Jacobson and Sarvia
13:36
Speaker 3: are your first choice open sides in number eight. So
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Speaker 3: there is beginning to form some real competition for places,
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Speaker 3: which goes back to the earlier point around, you know,
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Speaker 3: we're a long time away from selecting a World Cup
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Speaker 3: squad still, but there is going to be a squeeze
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Speaker 3: that comes on. So these next four weeks feel pretty
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Speaker 3: big for some of those locks as well with the
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Speaker 3: players that have been left behind, but also the loose
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Speaker 3: forwards and some of those new faces that they've added
14:01
Speaker 3: to the mix there too.
14:02
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the outside backs, I think.
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Speaker 6: Your man, Shea Fihaki, look, some elements of his game
14:09
Speaker 6: are potentially built for the Testarunas.
14:10
Speaker 5: He's got a big boot, good in the air.
14:12
Speaker 6: I have question marks about his defence, but it's He's
14:16
Speaker 6: been chosen over Amoni Narawa. You've still got Caleb Clarke
14:20
Speaker 6: and Leroy Carter and these guys to potentially come back. So, yeah,
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Speaker 6: there's a limited window now to press for these World
14:28
Speaker 6: Cup spots next year.
14:29
Speaker 3: There is, and it's going to have to be a
14:32
Speaker 3: breakout Super Rugby season. And, you know, someone like Lucas
14:36
Speaker 3: Casey might have been close to this. His name wasn't
14:38
Speaker 3: brought up yesterday, but he obviously hasn't pressed enough to
14:42
Speaker 3: force his way into the that loose forward mix so
14:44
Speaker 3: again he's going to have to take another level uh
14:46
Speaker 3: leap up at super rugby because there are limited tests
14:49
Speaker 3: next year to force their way in now traditionally world
14:52
Speaker 3: cup year you might have a wing or a you
14:53
Speaker 3: know a hot hand that comes in but by and
14:56
Speaker 3: large you stick with the players that have done the
14:59
Speaker 3: job for you over the previous three years now this
15:01
Speaker 3: is a hit and run mission for dave rennie but
15:03
Speaker 3: he has found a lot about a lot out about
15:06
Speaker 3: um you know 50 plus players this year and he'll
15:08
Speaker 3: learn a bit more on the in the coming weeks.
15:10
Speaker 6: Too He has, I guess one guy we haven't really
15:13
Speaker 6: seen is Christian Leo Were. He was a bit of
15:16
Speaker 6: a surprise selection in some ways, I guess, with Simon
15:20
Speaker 6: Parker unavailable. They wanted another, and Shannon Frizzell, an 8'6.
15:26
Speaker 6: So he fills that void. He's not as big, but
15:32
Speaker 6: he certainly fits the work rate dynamic that they're looking for.
15:37
Speaker 6: And then on the flip side, a guy like Doopsy Karifi,
15:41
Speaker 6: came in, had a wee bit of time off the bench.
15:46
Speaker 6: But with Anton Cegna coming back and Ethan Black out
15:49
Speaker 6: of fit, he misses out and I think he'll be
15:51
Speaker 6: sitting there over the summer thinking, right, time to start
15:55
Speaker 6: looking overseas ultimately because he rebuffed, I think it was
16:00
Speaker 6: a very lucrative Japanese offer to stay. He featured quite
16:06
Speaker 6: regularly off the bench under Scott Robertson but hasn't really
16:08
Speaker 6: got a look in this year. And while the door
16:11
Speaker 6: is ajar, you've still got Sevilla and Jacobson and all
16:14
Speaker 6: these guys to come back. It's really difficult to see
16:17
Speaker 6: a path into the all-black team for Karifi.
16:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and those players you mentioned as well, you know,
16:22
Speaker 3: with Signifit again. But he's also missed out to Lester Fonginuku,
16:26
Speaker 3: who's never played a test at open side, at test level,
16:30
Speaker 3: yet has been selected there.
16:31
Speaker 4: So.
16:33
Speaker 3: The writing does seem on the wall for Duplicy Karifi
16:35
Speaker 3: in terms of his All Blacks career. Unfortunately, he's played
16:39
Speaker 3: some solid tests, but no spectacular tests, I don't think.
16:42
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think of ones he played last year
16:44
Speaker 3: and certainly didn't stand out in Sydney in limited minutes
16:47
Speaker 3: off the bench when he got his opportunity there. I
16:50
Speaker 3: think that door, yeah, it's ajar, but only just. And
16:53
Speaker 3: it's hard to see him barring another swathe of injuries.
16:56
Speaker 3: And look, they've had a few this year, forcing his
16:59
Speaker 3: way into the Rugby World Cup squad in 2027.
17:02
Speaker 6: Yeah, just so stacked, those loose forwards, aren't they? And
17:06
Speaker 6: Dave Rennie's been open about the fact that A is
17:10
Speaker 6: a specialist seven, so he doesn't have that versatility. Even
17:12
Speaker 6: a guy like Cegna is seen as somebody who can
17:15
Speaker 6: cover multiple positions. And then there's the perception that Karifi
17:20
Speaker 6: gives away more penalties than others.
17:22
Speaker 5: So it's a long road back.
17:25
Speaker 6: One guy that's come back, Asafa Amor, you think about
17:30
Speaker 6: bringing him and Leicester off the bench recently. probably overshadowed
17:33
Speaker 6: a wee bit by some of Sonny Takeoho going out,
17:36
Speaker 6: but a big in.
17:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, big in for this tour. And I think by
17:40
Speaker 3: the end of the next four weeks, we'll see the
17:43
Speaker 3: All Blacks shape their bench in a way that they
17:46
Speaker 3: want to. I don't think they've always done it well
17:48
Speaker 3: this year, and certainly not in the last four or
17:51
Speaker 3: five years. But this year, I think they've been hamstrung
17:53
Speaker 3: a little bit by some of the injuries they've had.
17:56
Speaker 3: But You know, they've selected Anton Leonard-Brown in a bench
17:59
Speaker 3: spot alongside a Iwani from memory on occasion. It's never
18:05
Speaker 3: quite felt like the right balance, but I think if
18:07
Speaker 3: you get a Moua in there, maybe you get a
18:10
Speaker 3: Solomau in there potentially. You know, George Bauer, I think,
18:14
Speaker 3: has been really impressive off the bench this year and
18:16
Speaker 3: a quiet achiever for the All Blacks. You add in
18:18
Speaker 3: a Cegna, Tava Tavanara, Rico Iwani, maybe. that's a heck
18:24
Speaker 3: of a bench to bring on in a test match. And,
18:27
Speaker 3: you know, I think, as I say, the next three
18:29
Speaker 3: or four weeks, whether they're playing for a title at
18:31
Speaker 3: the end of it or not, but I think by
18:33
Speaker 3: that fourth game at Twickenham, they'll have a sense of
18:35
Speaker 3: where they need to, what their ideal bench is for
18:37
Speaker 3: next year.
18:38
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely.
18:39
Speaker 6: And the one shift I probably want to see is
18:41
Speaker 6: that in the back selections, where they've had Josh Morby
18:44
Speaker 6: a couple of times, and you and I are in
18:46
Speaker 6: agreeance that we don't see him or even a Leroy
18:50
Speaker 6: Carter necessarily there. as an impact type player when you
18:53
Speaker 6: have other options so i'd like to see that element progress.
18:57
Speaker 3: Yeah leroy carter i guess as a player i mean
19:00
Speaker 3: he's not gonna be on this tour but he you
19:01
Speaker 3: know if you're using on the bench you can use
19:03
Speaker 3: him as potentially as a halfback or whatever it might
19:05
Speaker 3: be um he can have versatility but i don't know
19:09
Speaker 3: that he's definitely been used that way um by the
19:14
Speaker 3: all black so far so that'll be um something to watch,
19:17
Speaker 3: I guess, over the next few weeks. Just back to
19:18
Speaker 3: Leo Willey. Obviously, gets ahead of Smithy Tupou-Tailoa. Leo Willey
19:23
Speaker 3: had a very good NPC season for Otago. I actually
19:26
Speaker 3: thought he played quite well for the All Blacks last year.
19:28
Speaker 5: He was very good for the Crusaders.
19:29
Speaker 3: For the Crusaders this year, and I think he was
19:31
Speaker 3: good for the All Blacks last year as well. Didn't
19:32
Speaker 3: have a huge amount of opportunities. Played well in France,
19:35
Speaker 3: against France in July. Then dipped out and then came back,
19:39
Speaker 3: I think, towards the end of the year, that Wales
19:42
Speaker 3: test I think he came back for. I thought it
19:44
Speaker 3: was actually quite promising at test level. So I'm intrigued
19:47
Speaker 3: to see him get another crack this time around. And
19:49
Speaker 3: it feels like he could potentially be, not necessarily a
19:51
Speaker 3: big mover, but you know, we talk about the squeeze
19:54
Speaker 3: coming on, you know, it's going to be a decision
19:57
Speaker 3: potentially weighed between him and Semisi Tailoa as the, you know,
20:01
Speaker 3: super season goes on next year.
20:03
Speaker 5: Yeah, Semisi was the big bolter, wasn't he?
20:05
Speaker 6: Along with Lawaki, and both of them have sort of
20:10
Speaker 6: been sent back with some work-ons. I think for Semisi
20:13
Speaker 6: it'll be similar to Tava Tava, probably fitness related and maybe,
20:17
Speaker 6: you know, carrying high into contact and those sorts of things. Um,
20:22
Speaker 6: but a big chance for, um, Christian Leawetti. Uh, it
20:25
Speaker 6: was very good for the Crusaders. High work crate, um,
20:28
Speaker 6: both sides of the ball is.
20:29
Speaker 5: A good line out option.
20:30
Speaker 6: Uh, he's versatile, not.
20:33
Speaker 5: Necessarily the biggest bloke. So interesting to see how it
20:35
Speaker 5: would go against the bigger pack.
20:37
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that's the one issue for, for the
20:40
Speaker 3: All Blacks is that the size is, is lacking.
20:43
Speaker 6: Um, Particularly when you take out a Frizzell, it changes
20:47
Speaker 6: the dynamic of that loose ball group.
20:48
Speaker 3: But they're just not producing them in New Zealand rugby
20:51
Speaker 3: at the moment. These bigger bodies, they're not playing rugby.
20:55
Speaker 3: They're not playing rugby to a high standard. You can't
20:58
Speaker 3: really think of someone that would adjust and get back
21:01
Speaker 3: in there that would add some more size to the
21:02
Speaker 3: pack that is missed out potentially. So I think that's
21:05
Speaker 3: just an ongoing issue for New Zealand rugby is scouting
21:09
Speaker 3: and finding these kind of body types. And it's hard
21:12
Speaker 3: when you're I guess you're looking at teenagers playing first-teen
21:15
Speaker 3: rugby and seeing what players they would develop into. A
21:18
Speaker 3: lot of those players, you know, sizes, you know, perhaps
21:22
Speaker 3: rangier players, but are playing basketball. And that's just a
21:25
Speaker 3: wider issue, I guess, for the game in this country
21:27
Speaker 3: is that these bigger body types are not playing the game.
21:31
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's why I think the All Blacks have looked
21:33
Speaker 6: to Tupou Vahe to supplement that because that number six
21:37
Speaker 6: position has been problematic.
21:39
Speaker 5: Frizzell was meant to be the guy.
21:41
Speaker 6: But it probably just shows the folly of putting a
21:43
Speaker 6: lot of stock and hope in players that have been
21:46
Speaker 6: gone for three years or who have been injury-prone. Frizzell's
21:49
Speaker 6: barely played this year, and there's probably a question mark
21:53
Speaker 6: about his longer-term fitness for the World Cup.
21:55
Speaker 5: He needs a string of games.
21:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, he does.
21:58
Speaker 3: Speaking of guys that have been gone for three years,
21:59
Speaker 3: Richie Mwonga is going to be available, they think, for
22:03
Speaker 3: the Wales test. Will miss that first match against Scotland.
22:06
Speaker 3: We had a discussion on the podcast a couple of
22:08
Speaker 3: times last week or the week before around whether you'd
22:11
Speaker 3: take him. Now, I thought if it was one match
22:13
Speaker 3: he was available for, then no, two, yes. Well, sounds
22:15
Speaker 3: like he could be available for potentially three. So, yep,
22:17
Speaker 3: absolutely get him on the plane, and that's what they've done.
22:20
Speaker 6: Yeah, it makes sense, doesn't it? He could well be
22:23
Speaker 6: the guy, but he needs to show some form. And
22:27
Speaker 6: he put out a video prior to the squad naming
22:29
Speaker 6: that looked like he was moving and running fairly.
22:32
Speaker 4: Freely, which.
22:35
Speaker 6: He must have made some serious progress in Sydney because
22:37
Speaker 6: when Dave Rooney spoke to us over there, he cast
22:40
Speaker 6: a pretty bleak picture. He said, like you say, one,
22:43
Speaker 6: maybe two games. But it's an interesting dynamic now, isn't it?
22:47
Speaker 6: McKenzie has come in, switched seamlessly, combined really well with
22:51
Speaker 6: Bowdoin Barrett. They're not tripping over each other. They've got
22:55
Speaker 6: a good understanding there. Mwanga, you'd think, would maybe come
22:58
Speaker 6: back via the bench against Wales, give Jake him his
23:01
Speaker 6: chance to start, and then.
23:04
Speaker 6: What do you do with the number 10 position? Do
23:06
Speaker 6: you leave McKenzie there? Do you bring Mwanga in to start?
23:09
Speaker 6: It's going to be fascinating to see how that plays out.
23:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, all of a sudden it's a tricky conversation or
23:13
Speaker 3: tricky decision for Dave Rennie to have at the midway
23:16
Speaker 3: point of this tour. I would hasten to say that McKenzie's,
23:20
Speaker 3: you know, it was against Australia and he's looked good
23:23
Speaker 3: against Australia before. So Scotland next week is a big
23:27
Speaker 3: step up for Damian McKenzie. It was the ground last
23:30
Speaker 3: year where he managed to weave his magic off the
23:32
Speaker 3: bench and come on and save the All Blacks blushes
23:35
Speaker 3: um but he's gonna have to steer the team around
23:37
Speaker 3: if he has a big game next week then I'm
23:38
Speaker 3: sticking with him you know for England and and the
23:41
Speaker 3: the nation's championship and parking you know any further discussion
23:45
Speaker 3: on that around the starting 10 to next year because
23:47
Speaker 3: Ruben Love will be back for you know Mwonga and
23:49
Speaker 3: Thierry McKenzie park that till to June July next year.
23:54
Speaker 6: Yeah things are going well I don't think you you
23:56
Speaker 6: change it up um Wales is a bit of a
24:01
Speaker 6: free hit.
24:01
Speaker 5: Sorry to our Welsh listeners.
24:04
Speaker 4: That could be clipped and recorded.
24:07
Speaker 5: Well, it's true, isn't it?
24:09
Speaker 6: And then come England, yeah, there'll be a call. And
24:13
Speaker 6: then the dynamic of whether you're playing in a final
24:17
Speaker 6: or a second place, maybe you'd stick with McKenzie if
24:21
Speaker 6: things were going well. Maybe you'd bring him on if
24:23
Speaker 6: you're playing for second place. Not too sure, but I think,
24:28
Speaker 6: good for Richie to be in that squad you know
24:29
Speaker 6: having come back he's only had one start at 10
24:32
Speaker 6: um played a couple games for Canterbury hasn't really found
24:36
Speaker 6: his rhythm yet has he.
24:37
Speaker 3: No he hasn't um it's been stop start so far
24:39
Speaker 3: since his return to to New Zealand rugby and he
24:42
Speaker 3: needs game time under his belt and and I think
24:45
Speaker 3: that's the best thing they can give him on this
24:47
Speaker 3: tour is some some time in the saddle um but
24:49
Speaker 3: again you've got to balance that out with the high
24:51
Speaker 3: performance outcomes and uh what's right for um for the
24:54
Speaker 3: team um So next week, we won't have another podcast
24:58
Speaker 3: until the team is named until Scotland, full Scotland. So
25:01
Speaker 3: do you expect it to be a relatively full-strength team,
25:04
Speaker 3: similar to the one that beat the Wallabies? I guess
25:07
Speaker 3: Geordie Barrett comes back in.
25:09
Speaker 4: Quintipia. Quintipia.
25:11
Speaker 3: Well, he started and then left very quickly. McKenzie beat 10.
25:15
Speaker 3: Roy got it half-back. Does the loose forwards remain the same,
25:19
Speaker 3: do you think?
25:20
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think so. Look, Cedna will be in that conversation, but...
25:25
Speaker 6: Pretty hard to change a winning formula. But depending on
25:32
Speaker 6: which way they go, maybe 2.6 allows you to have
25:34
Speaker 6: two loose forwards on the bench. So you'd think that
25:38
Speaker 6: team would probably pick itself. I imagine Morby, he did
25:41
Speaker 6: well under the high ball against the Wallabies, so probably
25:44
Speaker 6: retains his place.
25:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, although I want to see Fihi Finianganufa. And look,
25:47
Speaker 3: he's been injured on and off a lot more than
25:52
Speaker 3: we would like this season and probably would have started
25:55
Speaker 3: Maybe in Sydney, potentially. If he wasn't injured, I don't know.
25:57
Speaker 3: But I think it's time to get this guy an opportunity.
26:00
Speaker 3: And with the kind of outside backs that Scotland have,
26:04
Speaker 3: you know, Don Van der Merwe and some really good
26:08
Speaker 3: outside backs as well, I'm not sure what combination they'll
26:11
Speaker 3: go with. But I think it's time to find out
26:14
Speaker 3: about Fihi Finianganufo and play him in that test match.
26:17
Speaker 5: Absolutely.
26:18
Speaker 6: And you could argue he's fortunate to retain his place, him.
26:22
Speaker 6: hasn't put a marker down um Narawa was there um
26:26
Speaker 6: Taimoi Folau um was pushing from a form perspective when
26:31
Speaker 6: he was fairly open about the fact that he needs
26:32
Speaker 6: to work on his defense um but there's no shortage
26:36
Speaker 6: of of wingers um what about this tour broadly Dillblake
26:41
Speaker 6: said over I think with a five and three record
26:43
Speaker 6: this year what's a successful tour.
26:47
Speaker 3: Um successful tour is winning all the games Simple as that. And,
26:52
Speaker 3: you know, I think they've got to beat Scotland, they've
26:55
Speaker 3: got to beat Wales, England at Twickenham will be big.
26:58
Speaker 3: And look, it's outside of their hands whether they make
27:01
Speaker 3: this final or not. But I think winning all four
27:04
Speaker 3: games is a non-negotiable for the All Blacks.
27:07
Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree.
27:09
Speaker 6: You talk about that starting team that's facing Scotland, there's
27:12
Speaker 6: going to be, they are a red-hot, genuine team.
27:16
Speaker 5: Threat now.
27:18
Speaker 6: They knock over England consistently and they should have beaten
27:22
Speaker 6: Neil Blacks in Edinburgh at Murrayfield last year. Rennie knows
27:28
Speaker 6: the Scottish game well. They won't be taking any chances
27:30
Speaker 6: with that. And then the Twickenham game will be really
27:33
Speaker 6: pivotal because of what happened last year with the Grand
27:35
Speaker 6: Slam going up in smoke and sort of marking the
27:39
Speaker 6: beginning of the end for Scott Robertson.
27:43
Speaker 5: It's always.
27:45
Speaker 6: Kiwis love to beat the Brits and Swing Low will
27:49
Speaker 6: be ringing in the ears, won't it, after what happened
27:51
Speaker 6: last year for a bunch of those All Blacks?
27:53
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so.
27:54
Speaker 3: I mean, that is a couple of weeks away, but
27:56
Speaker 3: it feels like a very pivotal match around.
28:00
Speaker 4: For the complexion of the season.
28:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, exactly right for how Dave Rooney's first season
28:05
Speaker 3: will be judged. And, you know, there's some selection questions
28:08
Speaker 3: over this tour. There's some, you know... Yeah, look, if
28:12
Speaker 3: they win the first three... drop the last, depending on
28:15
Speaker 3: who it's against, that could also change the conversation. But yeah,
28:19
Speaker 3: given those three losses, again, to the world number one
28:22
Speaker 3: and world champions in South Africa, but doesn't leave much
28:26
Speaker 3: wriggle room in terms of judging the season, does it? No.
28:29
Speaker 6: And yeah, you made progress after South Africa. But as
28:33
Speaker 6: you mentioned, there's a lot of context around where the
28:36
Speaker 6: Wallabies are at. And where you weren't tested in the
28:41
Speaker 6: same realms of the set piece. It looked like you
28:45
Speaker 6: made a lot of progress under the high ball. Well,
28:46
Speaker 6: let's find out in winter on a cold, wet night.
28:51
Speaker 6: So stylistically, I think it's really intriguing, isn't it, to
28:54
Speaker 6: see how Rennie Ball plays out in the Northern Hemisphere
28:57
Speaker 6: against teams that will pressure and suffocate you and have
29:01
Speaker 6: better rush defence than the Wallabies brought. Can the All
29:05
Speaker 6: Blacks find that balance in their game? They kicked a
29:08
Speaker 6: lot more from the base against the Wallabies and that
29:10
Speaker 6: worked for them. So the evolution of the game stylistically,
29:13
Speaker 6: how they're going to go with their up-tempo ball movements,
29:16
Speaker 6: there's a lot of intrigue outside of the results and
29:22
Speaker 6: selection as well.
29:22
Speaker 3: There is indeed. Yep, looking forward to getting that tour underway.
29:26
Speaker 3: We'll be back, as I said, next week with our
29:27
Speaker 3: first podcast, probably Friday morning-ish in New Zealand time once
29:30
Speaker 3: that All Blacks team is named. Just finally, let's talk
29:35
Speaker 3: the NPC final.
29:35
Speaker 5: I thought we were going to... Get away with it.
29:37
Speaker 4: No, you thought wrong.
29:39
Speaker 3: Again, you haven't offered any congratulations to me or the
29:43
Speaker 3: wider Canterbury region for our continued success at NPC level.
29:49
Speaker 6: Well look congrats Canterbury thank you I think I saw
29:52
Speaker 6: something like is it the 15th 16th title in 50
29:56
Speaker 6: years 16th sweet 16 so a hell of a record
30:02
Speaker 6: acknowledge Northland as well hell of a year they were
30:05
Speaker 6: in it for 50 minutes probably really took the fight
30:10
Speaker 6: to Canterbury in that first half Canterbury's bench had a
30:13
Speaker 6: massive impact George Bell came on a couple of tries
30:18
Speaker 6: Shafiaki took over the goal kicking yeah and what were
30:24
Speaker 6: you trying to cook people down there it was 32
30:27
Speaker 6: and a half.
30:27
Speaker 3: Degrees in that stadium yeah that is an issue with
30:28
Speaker 3: the stadium that they need to figure out it is
30:32
Speaker 3: like when we went for the super round in April
30:35
Speaker 3: it was I remember the Saturday afternoon it was I
30:37
Speaker 3: had a big jacket on because it was quite cold outside.
30:41
Speaker 3: Inside it was freaking boiling and it sounds like obviously
30:44
Speaker 3: on the weekend, what, 32 degrees in the stands, 24 outside.
30:48
Speaker 5: What is it, the Norwest that blows.
30:49
Speaker 4: In the heat?
30:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they're going to have to figure out a ventilation.
30:53
Speaker 3: They've got those ceiling fans, but they're going to have
30:55
Speaker 3: to figure out something. But, you know, like the old
30:59
Speaker 3: cold nights at Apollo Projects, maybe the hot summer evenings
31:05
Speaker 3: under the roof of the, you know, secret weapons that
31:08
Speaker 3: the Canterbury Crusaders teams are going to have.
31:10
Speaker 6: Well, it didn't work for the Crusaders, did it?
31:12
Speaker 3: No, but the Super Rugby squads are out today and
31:16
Speaker 3: I've seen a few of them under embargo and things
31:18
Speaker 3: are looking pretty interesting for 2027.
31:19
Speaker 5: Yes, and Scott Hanson you trust?
31:21
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
31:22
Speaker 3: Right, that'll do us for Rugby Direct. As I said,
31:26
Speaker 3: we'll be back next Friday morning with another edition of
31:29
Speaker 3: the podcast. Our thanks to Mark Kelly for producing as
31:32
Speaker 3: always and our thanks to Forklift Solutions, lifting you and
31:35
Speaker 3: your business to a higher level.
31:40
Speaker 1: For more from Newstalk ZB, listen live, on air, or online.
31:44
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