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Deep dive on Astros GM intro & Manager plan, Nats offseason outlook · Foul Territory

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Chandler Rome is back. Crush City territory host covers the
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Astros for the athletic and the Astros are making sure
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: that he is very busy already to start the offseason. Chandler,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: how you doing? What do you think of the new
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: hire at the GM role and what's next?
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Well, they got to get a manager in place, but
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: I guess I guess when you have a general manager
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: in place, it's a good place to start. You know,
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I think and I told a few people this after
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Randy Flores is in introductory press conference yesterday. He was
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: as polished and as charismatic and as prepared as any
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: head of baseball operations that Jim Crane has really ever hired.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: And that doesn't portend much for on-field success. You can
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: be a great public speaker. You can be great in
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: front of a microphone. You can crack jokes and be
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: a good orator, but you're really going to be judged on,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: do you make the playoffs every year as Jim Crane wants?
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Do you rebuild the farm system? Do you strengthen the
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: player development infrastructure? And those are all things that Randy
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Flores has to do, but he made a very strong
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: first impression yesterday. I did not know Randy well at all.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I had only heard his name in passing a few times,
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: knew some people that knew him. I had universally heard
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: great things about him from people in baseball, but to
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: get to meet him and get to see him in
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: action yesterday, it was very impressive.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: It was a very good first impression that he gave.
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: After Randy was announced, a lot of fans took to
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: Twitter with nice comments. Obviously, they didn't. They basically said, well,
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: this is just going to be status quo. Is the
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: hiring of the GM going to signal for Astros fans
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: that it's just going to be status quo? Which, in
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: my opinion, isn't a terrible status quo. It's playoffs. It's
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: a World Series with Jim Crane meddling. Or is the
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: hiring of the manager... going to be something that would
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: change the status quo of what's been happening with the
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: Astros organization?
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: I'm in the camp that the GM hire is far,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: far more consequential than the managerial hire. Now, those two
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: people will work in concert, right? Like Randy Flores has
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: to hire a manager that he can communicate well with
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: and that they share the same ideas, the same philosophies,
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: things of that nature. So it goes hand in hand, right?
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: That the manager does have to be in lockstep with
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: the general manager, but the general manager sets the tone, right?
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: The general manager is the person that's going to really
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: have their mark on organization-wide philosophies, player development philosophies, drafting philosophies.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: As we know, Randy Flores was a really, really good
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: evaluator of talent in St.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: Louis.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: That was his specialty, was drafting. But it'll be interesting
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: because It wouldn't be the Astros without some speculation or
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: some just wonder of who is really in charge. It's
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: it's not often that an owner gets asked at an
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: introductory press conference. Will your general manager have full autonomy
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: to do everything? But Jim Crane was asked that yesterday
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: and he said on the record that yes, that, that
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Randy Flores will have full authority to do anything in
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: baseball operations. However, Jim Crane did say that nothing is
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: going to change in terms of kind of how things
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: are run. And Jim said that he will continue to
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: be very hands-on on the business side of things, which
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: he is. He's very hands-on on the business side of
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: the Astros organization. But he said, you know, he only
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: chips in when, you know, he's got to convince a
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: guy to maybe come over or to retain someone. He
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: said he chips in at the trade deadline. He said
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: he only does it when he's asked. And he said
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: that's not going to change. So, In some ways, I
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: guess we're still on the status quo, just maybe with
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: a different voice.
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: Chandler, I mean, I know he said it, Jim Crane
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: said it, but he already interviewed managers. He's like, yeah,
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: I haven't hired a GM, but I've already interviewed managers. So,
• 4:03
  Speaker 5: I mean, I want to believe the guy that Randy
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: Flores is going to have full autonomy, but the proof
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: is in the pudding, right? It's show me, right? Show
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: me what you're doing. So, When Jim Crane sits down
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: with Randy Flores, and I'm sure they've already done this,
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: and they start going through their list of candidates, we'll
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: have Brad Ausmus, who's already been in there. I don't
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: know who else has been in there for interviews, but
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: will some of these names still get interviewed by Randy Flores?
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: Or will Jim say, you know what, Randy? You got this, buddy.
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: Whoever you hire, just make sure Jeff Bagwell okays it.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: You know, look, I can only take Jim Crane at
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: his word. And he said on the podium yesterday that
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Randy will, I believe the exact quote was, take over
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: that search. So I am to believe that it's going
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: to be Randy Flores' hire. Brad Ausmus, as you mentioned,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: will forever be a candidate as long as Jeff Bagwell
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: has any influence within this front office. And as long
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: as there's no manager in place, Brad Ausmus will always
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: be a candidate because of that. He is very close
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: friends with Jeff Bagwell. He was the runner up to
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Dana Brown in the GM search four years ago. He
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: was interviewed for the managerial opening when Dusty Baker got
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: it following AJ Hinch's firing. So, Brad Ausmus will always
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: remain kind of front of mind and be a candidate,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: but unless I'm missing something, I cannot find a connection
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: between Randy Flores and Brad Ausmus. And obviously they played
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: around the same time. So I'm sure they know each other.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they're familiar with one another, especially being in
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: the division as much as they were. But you look
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: at maybe some other names that are more connected to
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Randy Flores and Daniel Descalso comes to mind, the Cardinals
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: bench coach, quality control coach John Jay comes to mind. Obviously,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Yadier Molina and Albert Pujols, two of Randy Flores' former
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: teammates in St.
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: Louis.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Randy was asked yesterday, he was not asked specifically about
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Yadier or Pujols, but just, do you think any of
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: your former teammates could be candidates? And he very deftly
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: avoided that question, citing tampering rules. But he did say,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: that he's going to use his network, and he's going
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: to use the people that he knows to help move
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: this thing forward. And then another name to consider would
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: be Morgan Insberg. Morgan Insberg and Randy Flores were teammates
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: at USC. It stands to reason that they're still somewhat close.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Morgan Insberg has vast managerial experience in the minor leagues
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: and the Rays organization. So those are the kind of
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: names you're starting to hear about. But I think as
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: we saw today with what the Mariners did with Jason Kanzler,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: You can think that you've got the ideal candidates. You
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: can think that, you know, there's certain cookie-cutter kind of
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: minor league managers or guys that have been bench coaches
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: or been on big league staffs before, but these can
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: be outside of the box hires. And, you know, Randy
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Flores has been on the job for not even 72 hours,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: so I'm not even sure we know really what he's
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: looking for, what his kind of front of mind here.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: His mind has to be going 1,000 miles an hour
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: right now.
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: By the way, I have to ask this. Were the–
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: When Jason Kanzler got taken away from the Astros, were
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: the Astros just gutted? I didn't even know who he was.
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry, I didn't know who he was. I'm still
• 7:13
  Speaker 5: in shock that Joe Espada did not get the Mariners
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: job over Jason Kanzler. Again, I don't know Jason Kanzler
• 7:20
  Speaker 5: at all. I'm not saying bad things about him. I
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: just hate to question it. But it had to be
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: a shock to some people in the Astros, too, that
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: Joe Espada didn't get this job and their guy who
• 7:29
  Speaker 5: was their minor league Rover hitting coach slash, you know,
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: whatever guy got the job over him.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: I think there was a little bit of shock that,
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: that Kanzler got the job and that's not a shot.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: That's not a shot at Jason Kanzler by any means.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: I think the world of Jason Kanzler, you know, he was,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: I will say this, he was on the major league
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: staff in 2021, 2022, and I believe 2023 as well.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: So he's got major league coaching experience. It's not, he
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: wasn't a bench coach or anything, but, He worked under
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Dusty Baker, a soon-to-be Hall of Fame manager. And he
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: left the Astros because he got a promotion. He went
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: from being the third hitting coach on staff to being
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: the farm director of the Chicago Cubs. That's a pretty
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Quantum Leap-style promotion. But make no mistake, Jason Kanzler was very,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: very well thought of in the Astros organization. He was
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: always thought of as someone that could have been, that
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: we're now seeing as a rising star. someone that the
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: minute you meet him, you kind of know that he
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: has it. And it can be kind of hard to
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: put your finger on, but he definitely commands a room.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: He's a guy that you can just, you know, by
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: talking to him, he's a good communicator. I've talked to
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: people that worked with him with the Cubs and they
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: rave about his leadership style and the way that he,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: you know, led those departments when he was the farm director.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: So I get a lot of Blake Butera vibes with
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: this hire. A lot of similarities there. I know Blake,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: I think he managed at least one or two years
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: in the minor leagues. Jason Kanzler has obviously never managed anywhere. But,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm happy for Jason. I think it's certainly
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: going to be an interesting role for him. But I
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: also think, too, you know, I know the Mariners have
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Cal Raleigh and they have Julio and they've got, kind
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: of established players, but they've got a lot of young
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: guys on that team. You think of like Cole Young,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: you think of Kate Anderson, you think of the younger
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: prospects they're going to be breaking in. I think that's
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: where Jason Kanzler really excels. One of the things he
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: did in Houston, he was really key in getting Jeremy
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: Pena turned around in 2022, really helped with his leg kick,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: with his load, with just kind of the mechanics of
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: his swing. And you could really point to some of
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: the stuff that Pena and Kanzler and some of the
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: other hitting coaches worked on That really catalyzed him to
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: go on a run in September, and then we know
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: he obviously won the World Series MVP that fall. So
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: he's really good at working with younger players. He's good
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: at teaching the game, and I think the Mariners can
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: benefit from that.
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: Who or what does this team need? as a manager?
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: Because the team is essentially in place. I get it.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: There's going to be moves. There's going to be looking
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: for some kind of offense in the outfield. I get that.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: The core of this team is here. What type of
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: manager do they need? And you can't say Joe Espada
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: because they had him already. So you have to have
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: a different answer.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: You know, I think the one thing that both Dusty
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: and Joe did very well is I think they both
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: understood that this clubhouse doesn't need a meddler. They don't
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: need someone to come in there and like teach them
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: and like put up a PowerPoint and say, all right,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: here are our core values. Here are our standards. Here's
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: like how we're going to play the game. Like that
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: clubhouse really runs itself, right? When you've got Carlos Correa
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: and Jose Altuve and Jordan Alvarez and that group that's
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: been together for so long, that culture is really kind
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: of already set. That clubhouse sets the culture itself. I
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: think the right kind of manager for the Ashers is
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: someone that, I'm not going to say leaves them alone,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: but certainly kind of lets that culture manifest on its
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: own and doesn't come in and try to reinvent the wheel.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: You really don't have to. Dusty said that when he
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: took the job, Joe Espada. Obviously, they're two different people,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Dusty Baker and Joe Espada, but in that realm, though,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: they're kind of the same in terms of They knew
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: they had a good thing in that clubhouse in terms
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: of the culture, in terms of accountability, in terms of how,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: you know, people held each other responsible for things. I
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: don't think that's going away. Now, usually when you hire,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: when you get rid of one manager, you usually go
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: the opposite, right? Joe Espada was an Astros lifer by
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: this point. He had been in the organization almost 10 years,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: just was kind of a mainstay in the org. So
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: I think the next hire will probably be somebody that
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: doesn't really have a ton of attachments, doesn't really have
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: a ton of, you know, doesn't know the org very well.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Joe Espada did not have managerial experience, but he had,
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: you know, vast coaching experience. He had done it before,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: but he had never sat in the big chair before.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: I don't think the big chair daunted Joe Espada. I
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: don't think being the manager, you know, changed him at all,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: but I think maybe you could see someone that's got
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: a little bit more experience that has managed in the
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: big leagues before, if they want to go the opposite
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: route of Joe Espada, but the wild card here, I mean,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: there are two wild cards. Like Randy Flores, like again,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: he's been on the job 72 hours. Like I can't
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: tell you, I know exactly what he wants in terms
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: of a manager, what he thinks philosophically and everything like that.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: And then, The other wild card is obviously, like, how
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: much influence does Jeff Bagwell have? How much influence will
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Jim Crane have in this? We know that they interviewed
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: candidates already before Randy Flores got the job. So that's
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: a long way of saying I don't really know, but
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to pull at strings here and do what
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I can.
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: That's kind of awkward. Like, hey, you're going to make
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: the choice, but here's the list that we made. This
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: is who you can take to prom. This is who
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: you can't take the problem. A little helicopter parenting. But anyway,
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: actual team now. The actual team, the people who will
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: throw and hit the baseballs. They have about $ 30 million.
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: Jim Crane's never been afraid of spending the money. He
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: doesn't go wild and crazy like some owners.
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: Where do they push this? Where do they push this money?
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: Is there an allocation? Is there the standard this time
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: of year, Christian Walker, Esau Paredes getting traded to move
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: that money elsewhere?
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: I think you first have to look at Jeremy Pena.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: I think they have to make a decision as to
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: what they're going to do with Jeremy Pena. Jeremy Pena
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: will enter, well, he's in this offseason. This is the
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: identical scenario to Kyle Tucker two years ago. They had
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: tried and failed to extend Kyle Tucker, just like they
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: tried and failed to extend Jeremy Pena. They knew they
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: were not going to be able to retain him, and
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: they traded him for two major league players in Hayden
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Wisniewski and Isak Paredes. And at the time, a very,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: very well thought of prospect in Cam Smith, who ended
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: up making the big league team and has not played
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: a day in the minor leagues for the Astros. If
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: they are going to trade Jeremy Pena, I think the
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: return will have to look something like that. Because as
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Jim Crane said yesterday, this is not a complete teardown.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: They're not thinking about rebuilding here, but they are going
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: to have to reimagine some things. And I think the
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: best way for them to do that without having to
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: spend a ton of money is Dangle Jeremy Pena out
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: there and see if you can get a major league
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: ready outfielder because this outfield is going to need to
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: be re-imagined. It was one of the worst outfields in
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Astros history last year. They lost setup man, Brian Abreu
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: to free agency. Steven Okert, who was their everyday Okert
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: fireman kind of guy. He's a free agent as well.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: They'll need a leverage reliever. They could use a mid
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: rotation starter to kind of slot behind Hunter Brown as well.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Can you get one or all of those things in
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: a trade for Jeremy Pena? Maybe, but I think that's
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: where they're going to have to decide first. They're going
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: to have to decide Jeremy Pena's future. And then once
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: you decide Jeremy Pena's future, the, the infield surplus really
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: isn't resolved because I don't think Carlos Correa is going
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: to go back to play shortstop. I could be wrong,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: but when he got traded back over here in 2025,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: he was very adamant in saying he had been looking
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: to move to third base for a while and He
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: had wanted to move there to kind of extend his
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: career and, you know, make it a little easier on
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: his lower half and prevent injuries. I think he wants
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: to stay at third base. And then, you know, Isak
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Paredes does not profile as a shortstop at all. And
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: you don't really have a shortstop on your roster. So
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: do you trade one of Paredes or Walker and whoever
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: you don't trade play at first base? And then do
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: you go sign a utility type infielder to be a
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: stop gap at either second base or shortstop? there's a
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: fan favorite that used to be a utility infielder in
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Houston that's now a free agent, a Mauricio Dubon. I'm
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: just throwing the name out there, not saying that that's
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: something that they've talked about, but it's something that could work.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: But rest assured, Randy Flores has a lot of work
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: to do here. He has a lot of major decisions
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: to make. But I guess to answer your big question,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: what do they need? They need at least one serviceable
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: major league outfielder. They need a leverage reliever, and they
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: quite possibly will need kind of a mid-rotation starter to
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: slot in with Hunter Brown.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I'll take it back. Do you think that if Ausmus
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: ends up getting the job, it's telling on how much
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: say that GM actually has? Like, this is like a
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: test right off the jump. I mean, maybe they're best buds,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: but like you said, they probably aren't. Do you think
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: that this would be an indicator? Because, like, we gave
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Jim Crane a lot of praise yesterday, too. Like, he
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: knows ball, he's won, but he definitely doesn't gets involved.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: And I think in the press conference, he tried to
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: at least make it clear that he's not as involved
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: maybe as people think he is. Whatever it is, I
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: just feel like the easiest way to tell that is
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: the decision that's going to be made in the next
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: few days with your new GM coming through and seeing
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: if he actually gets to choose who he wants versus
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Brad Ausmus being linked to the team forever. And I'm
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: going to have a very educated guess here and say
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: that it's not Flo's top choice, as in Randy Flores.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: I think it will be hard for them to overcome optically.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: They'll go on the podium. And look, if Brad Ausmus
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: is the hire, they will go on the podium. And
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I'm sure Randy Flores will be sitting right next to him.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure they will do the song and dance
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: that you have to do on the dais. But it
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: will be very hard optically for them to overcome that. Now,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: I will say this in defense of Brad Ausmus. If
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Randy Flores sits down with Brad Ausmus and is blown
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: away and he believes that this is the best candidate
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: to hire, Randy Flores should hire him. I don't think
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: you should make moves just because of what it will
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: look like optically, one way or the other. I do think, however,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Randy Flores has been given this title. I do think
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: he should be given the freedom and the autonomy to
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: hire the person that he will work the closest with
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: for however long he keeps this job, for however long
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: both of their contracts are. I think he should be
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: given full authority to hire that person. And if that
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: person is Brad Ausmus, I think they should, I think,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: you know, Randy Flores should have sat down with him
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: on multiple occasions and he should have decided that this
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: is the best person for the job. But, but Scott,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: you're onto something there when it will be tough for
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: them to overcome optically, if it is Brad Ausmus and that,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: and that's a little bit unfair to Brad because, you know, look,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is a guy that, that has managed
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: two teams in the big leagues. He's the Yankees bench
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: coach right now. That's, that's a, that's a tough role.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Like that is a high pressure role to be the
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: bench coach in New York. Look, I know he's not
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: the manager, but that's a high pressure role to be in.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: And the Yankees have been very good. The Yankees have
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: done very well with that Brad Ausmus, Aaron Boone duo.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: So I don't want to be so unfair to Brad,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: just to say that if they hire him, it's just
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: an indictment on the whole thing, but I will acknowledge
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: that it will be tough for them to overcome optically
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: if that happens.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Okay. And, I mean, here's my two notes on this, too.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: And I've talked about this on the show before. I
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: probably talked more about this behind the scenes than I
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: have maybe once on the show. I mean, my two
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: cases here on this particular candidate. One is the past
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: manager experience has not gone well. I think that's a fact.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: And I know it's been a while and you learn
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: from your mistakes, but it's been multiple manager roles. And
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: that includes, I think, the most talented team I have
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: seen in the 21st century in that Tigers team that
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: got swept by the Orioles. I know it was a
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: long time ago at this point. Was it 10, 12
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: years ago? And there's been other roles for him since.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Yankees haven't won a World Series. I don't think anyone
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: looks at them like they have the best culture in
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: the world. I think they do a nice job. job,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: but I don't think they're like, wow, who's the bench
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: coach back there? And then my third thing is in
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: my years broadcasting, I only came across one person where
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting in a room and he's like, I can't
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: give you guys any info because why would I share
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: info with broadcasters? And we're like, yeah. And I'm sitting
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: with a Hall of Famer. Next to me to to
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: call a game and he's and we're like, yeah, we're
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: just looking for like a few good stories to tell
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: them the broadcast to highlight your players to make them
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: sound good. So it's not a personal shot. I'm just
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: saying like, I hope that you learn from stuff like that.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: And maybe the person's different because I haven't covered him
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: in the last five years. But my point is, I
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: feel like there are better candidates out there. And I
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: think Randy Flores knows that. Is that too harsh for
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: where I was going just now? I'm just stating facts.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: I'll trust you because you were in the room.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: You covered him for a long time.
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. When he was managing, I interviewed him 10 times.
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: Sure.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: And I want to be fair to Brad in this,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: you know, and I'm going to bring this name up
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: and I'm sure Scott, you're going to leap out of
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: your chair, but does anyone remember AJ Hinch's first managerial
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: go around with the Diamondbacks?
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: It was awful.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: Like he was terrible.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Like it was thought of as like one of the
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: worst managerial tenures in a while. And, I guess it
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: just goes to show that you can learn. You can
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: learn from your mistakes. You can learn from things you
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: did wrong the first or second time around. Managing the
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Los Angeles Angels under Artie Moreno does not seem like
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: an ideal place to be, and Brad was there for
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: a year. So I'm not at all disputing what you're saying.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that there are better candidates, and I'm sure
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Randy Flores is combing through that right now. But as
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: I think you were trying to say there, Scott, like,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: you are allowed to get better at this. You like,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: just like players are allowed to get better. Just like, um,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: player development is not always linear. Maybe that's the same
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: thing with managers. Maybe managers front office personnel just have
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: ways to get better. So, um, again, I, I, I
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: can't sit here and tell you that Brad Ausmus is
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: the favorite. I don't think there is a favorite right now,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: but just the fact that he's been in the offices,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: the fact that we know he has interviewed and the
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: fact that, um, he and Jeff Bagwell remain very close. Uh,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: I think that, you know, it's almost, there's almost too
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: much smoke there to not say that he is a
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: real legitimate candidate. I don't know, can't tell you favorite
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: or anything like that, but it'll be interesting to see.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: And like I said, and as I wrote this in
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: The Athletic yesterday, Randy Flores, if you watch that introductory
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: press conference he did yesterday, he was in full control.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Like cracking jokes, charismatic, polished, knew the right thing to say,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: avoided a bunch of cliches, It was what you want
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: to hear from someone making a great first impression. He
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: was in full control. The real test is going to
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: be how much control he has going forward. And that's
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: going to be up to Jim Crane. It's going to
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: be up to Jeff Bagwell.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: And I guess we'll all find out together.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Agreed. He was great. And also just to clarify, the
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: reason I'm singling someone out is we don't know who
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: else is a candidate right now. And we just had
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: a conversation, like you said, about Espada versus Kanzler. And
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: even during the show, I've been going back and forth
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: with some people on social media because that's healthy. who
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: think it's unfair for us to even call out that
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: we are going with experience versus not experience. No, that's
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: literally the point of our show. We, we point out
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: what's going on here and the Mariners are going with
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: someone who hasn't done this before. Not that they're not
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: going to do a good job. So anyway, good stuff, Chandler.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Good to talk to you. Appreciate the time, dude. And yeah, we'll,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: we'll check back in with you when we find out
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: who gets the role. All right.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: Thanks guys.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: He covers the Nats for the athletic does a fantastic
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: job and also the Covers the Nats for District Territory,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: one of our newer shows that was released this year.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Spencer Nussbaum back with us. Spencer, good to see you, dude. And,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: you know, at least for me, I was excited to
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: have you back on, as you can tell, James Woodshire today, FoulTerritoryShop.com.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: But your tweet stood out to me about how much
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: turnover there's been in just one year with the Nationals.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Can you run through that with us?
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: And so I kind of gauged this on when Paul
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Toboni arrived in D.C. He inherited 44 players on the
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: 40-man roster. so to speak, and, um, 18 of them
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: are left, which is a pretty remarkable amount of turnover
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: in just one year. I don't know that it's necessarily
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: the biggest outlier in baseball because you have teams like
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: the Cubs who lose a ton of free agents, um,
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: this season, or maybe some other, you know, clubs, but
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: the nationals have turned over the back of their roster. Um,
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: and even, you know, dealt a couple of borderline stars, uh, in,
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: in the past year. And so when we think about
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: the nationals kind of trying to build a new foundation,
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: This is what it looks like, right? It's dealing guys
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: who are close to free agency, at least at this
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: term of the competitive window. And it's getting rid of
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: most of the back of the roster and saying, I
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: think we can do better. I think we can build
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: a better farm system and find other guys on the fringes.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: You saw them mostly succeed in that regard this past year,
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: but this is kind of what building a new foundation
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: looks like in D.C. All right.
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: The offense killed it. They had the formula for offense.
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: Do they have to go somewhere else to find the
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: formula for pitching? Because you listed like 10 relievers that
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: they should go after. They might need all 10 of them, Spencer.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the big target, right,
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: is getting that pitching depth in there. As you mentioned,
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: I outlined this, and I even threw some caveats, right,
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: where you look at basically all of the good bullpens
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: in baseball except maybe the Dodgers, and it's all internal, right,
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: or it's about 75%. internal and you think about the
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: high leverage arms. So, you know, the Nationals do not
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: have much money on the payroll. They need to continue
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: to build internally, but they're in a great spot where
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: they can add maybe one tier two closer who would
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: be a setup man on most teams and then fill
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: out a couple other spots in that bullpen. You know,
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: they set the blown saves record last year. They have
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: other areas on the roster to address, but that one
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: just seems like such a layup to me when you
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: have money to spend and candidly can probably outbid some
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: of these teams on some bullpen arms.
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: Spencer, why haven't they? Why haven't they spent the money?
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: Why haven't they spent the money? And we have Jim
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: Bowden on here all the time. He says, I can
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: find you a closer. I can find you bullpen pieces.
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: Why have the Nats had such a hard time finding
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: bullpen pieces? The Brewers get guys off the scrap heap.
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: They go out and win the World Series. They get
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: guys off waivers. The Rays get guys off waivers. They
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: make smaller trades. They turn into big deals for them.
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: Why have the Nats had such a hard time developing
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: bullpen pieces if every other team not well not every
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: other team but other teams that are successful have the
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: ability to do it in the Nats have had such
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: a hard time.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah there's there's three super quick like points I can
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: hit on on that front the first is just their
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: pitching development was not very good for very long you
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: look at all these teams that have elite closers elite
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: back in arms they develop most of them internally and
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: they tell them to throw hard like the Nationals simply
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: weren't emphasizing velocity enough in previous seasons and that's why
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: you saw them kind of fall behind the eight ball
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: in that regard. Last year, I think, you know, their
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: acquisitions group did a lot of good, but they weren't
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: able to find a single arm off waivers who was
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: able to like fit in this next chapter of Nationals baseball, right?
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: You know, it's hard to find great arms there, but
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: I think they're still refining some of their back end
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: processes there as well. And the third point is they've
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: dealt away some of these guys, right? Like Jose Ferrer
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: could easily be on their closer last year. They dealt
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: him for Harry Ford and a prospect, right? You know,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: I think that they need to start winning some of
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: those acquisitions on the margins. But the main points will
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: have to be probably getting one guy in free agency
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: and then continuing the pitching development, which grew by leaps
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: and bounds last year, but is still not necessarily in
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: the upper echelon of baseball.
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: But didn't Paul Tavoni come from the Red Sox who
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: had some issue with pitching development also?
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: So does he.
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: Have, is that answer in the throw-harder Just like, oh, well,
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: our hitters, you know, we're going to just hit the
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: ball harder type of type of realm. Is it that
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: simple of a fix?
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: No, it's not that simple. That's the best way to
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: oversimplify it, maybe. But again, the fact of the matter
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: is they just they lagged behind and stuff so dramatically.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: And we know that's what the back end of these
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: bullpens look like.
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: Like think about the Brewers. When you get to the
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: seventh inning on, it's 98, 99, 100, basically every fastball
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: you're seeing. The Nationals simply weren't there. They were trying
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: to have guys who, you know, threw 86 mile per
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: hour fastballs and 70 mile per hour sweepers. And, you know,
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: that's good for a batter or two, but that's not
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: simply what wins at the end of these games. And so, yeah,
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: I think, you know, pitching development is obviously more nuanced
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: than that. But they simply just did not have a
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: group of pitchers in there right now who had added
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: enough velocity. And that's why a big reason why I
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: should say they need to kind of improve on that front.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: in addition to just finding the profile they want, right?
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: Like the Brewers have a clear idea of the sort
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: of relievers they want in their bullpen. I think the
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: Nationals are still figuring that out, but at least there's
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: more of a refined plan than there was in past seasons.
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: Hey, Spencer, I'm getting off the bullpen for a second.
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: They also need starting pitchers. Other than Cade Cavalli, they're
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: starting pitchers. Foster Griffiths is an all-star. They traded him away.
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: Will this be the year where you said the Nationals
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: had money? That's news to everyone because I thought they
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: were trying to sell the team and trying to get
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: their debt down and all that stuff. So if the
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: Nationals have money, they were always a team that would
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: strike and get this guy or Jason Wirth and then
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: get Scherzer and get Corbin and get whoever they needed
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: to try to win the league. Is this the year
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: where the Nationals finally strike again or are they going
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: to keep waiting until there's a sale or are they
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: just going to keep saying we're poor? But you just
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: told us they have money, so I'm so confused.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: I say they have money because they have almost no
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: money on the active payroll. Strasburg's contract, it's a little
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: more nuanced than this. It's kind of off the books
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: this year with deferrals, obviously. But the fact of the
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: matter is, do I think they're going to go out and,
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: you know, Even call Scooble, probably not. Do I think
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: they're even going to target some of those tier two,
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: you know, the maybe Michael Kings of the world? Maybe
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: have a phone call. I'd be surprised if they sign
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: someone to a three, four or five year deal. But
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: I also at the same time think that they're primed
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: to hit on one of these starting pitchers, right, where
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: you can pay, in my opinion, pretty, you know, depth filled,
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: you number three starter type market. I think there's a
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: lot of those guys out there. I think the Nationals
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: exactly need that behind Cade Cavalli and Connolly early. And so, again,
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: I think this is kind of primed for an offseason
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: for the Nationals to succeed. I think, you know, you
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: can still make excuses for the organization in certain regards
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: as it comes to spending their competitive window, things of
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: that nature, arguments that I kind of hedge on a
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: little bit. but when it comes to finding a starting pitcher,
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: there really isn't an excuse not to, in my opinion. Yeah,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: if you want to be even looking at an outside
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: shot at the postseason next year, you need another free
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: agent starter in there or a big trade acquisition. Will
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: it be the top of the market? Probably not, but
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: there should be some mid-tier guys that they can go
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: after this winter.
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: I'm not as confident that they're going to do that,
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: so my question to you is if I'm a Nats
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: fan with extra Nattitude, Do I just have to hold
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: my attitude until, say, the sale actually happens?
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, I can't really put my finger on that
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: per se, just because we don't know, you know, the
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: team is not currently up for sale. You know, the lockout,
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: the post-lockout world could impact that just like it could
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: with any ownership group. Um, but I think, you know,
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: you look at the way that a lot of these
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: great teams are currently built brewers, guardians raise, I think
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: the nationals are in a bigger market than those teams.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: And I think you need to have sort of the
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: foundation of those teams. Um, in addition to relatively consistent
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: spending to, you know, have full natitude or however you
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: want to speak it. Um, I don't think they're there yet,
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: but I, I do think that this is a massive
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: off season for the nationals. Um, you know, as, as
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: big as they've had in, quite some time during this.
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: Rebuild spencer you know we keep talking about this rebuild
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: this rebuild has been going on since basically 2020 we're
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: like into the fifth sixth year of the rebuild they're
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: on their second mike rizzo didn't work out now they're
• 32:25
  Speaker 5: on the taboni and butera when will they have hope
• 32:30
  Speaker 5: when will nationals fans have hope you have hope man
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: you're as positive about the nationals as i've heard anybody
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: speak in a long time spencer so i give you
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: kudos for that but When are they going to have hope?
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: Because their division, Braves, Phillies, Mets, even the Marlins, they
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: seem to keep getting better or staying around the top.
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: And then the Nationals are like, oh, if we get
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: to 500, that'd be really cool. Oh, we won that
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: World Series back in 2019. We didn't get to celebrate it,
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: but it was really cool. Right. So when is the
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: hope going to turn into, hey, we actually have a
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: really good team? Because, again, hold on. Before you answer,
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: you're talking about Abrams traded. Are they going to suspend or,
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: you know, extend James Wood? There's all these questions they have.
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: But when does the hope turn into promise and then
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: into winning?
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, 2027 is the outside shot, right? Like,
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's unreasonable to say the Nationals could
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: make the postseason next year. I still think it's unlikely.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: I would still bet against it. If you want to
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: start having hope, I don't think it's a problem to
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: start having hope now. If you want to have hope
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: about being a consistent contender who is mentioned alongside, you know,
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: the Braves, the Brewers. Um, you know, the raised teams
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: that consistently make the post season consistently have a shot
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: at it. 2028 is probably the year, right? Like at
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: that point, there really aren't many excuses left. Um, this
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: isn't a short term build per se, but nationals went
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: from 66 wins to 77 wins in a season run
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: differential got a lot better, yada, yada. I could go
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: on on this stuff. Um, I think that, you know,
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: you can start holding their feet to the fire now
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: because they have almost no money on the books. Um,
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: But I just don't know that teams that win 77 games,
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: add $ 100 million in free agency, are considered to be
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: automatic contenders next year. I think they have an outside shot,
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: and I think 2020 is the year that we say, yeah,
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: there's no more excuses left.
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: But won't they be gone? Won't some of these guys
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: be gone? Abrams, be gone. Maybe James Wood, gone. Cavalli, there. Heck,
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: by 2028. So won't they have to start over? So
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: shouldn't they have to extend some of these guys? Shouldn't
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: they start extending them? You just said they're going to
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: spend $ 100 million in free agents.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: On who?
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: On number three starters?
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Well, that's what I'm saying is they probably shouldn't spend
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: $ 100 million in free agency. But in a couple of years, sure.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Or at least they should be $ 100 million more expensive
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: than they have right now. They did extend Cavalli. I
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: think that they should continue to explore, especially at James
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: Wood Extension. Obviously, there's a thousand nuances and caveats as
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: to why that's so difficult. Abrams, it's a little bit
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: more of a mixed bag just because you have so
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: much talent coming up the pipeline. And this isn't just
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: a bet on prospects. This is a potentially best infield
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: prospect group in baseball sort of situation. But yeah, I mean, absolutely,
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: you need to start extending some of these guys. Cavalli
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: was a good first step. Again, when we talk about, oh,
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: it's fine to hope again, I think that a second
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: extension is probably where you're at. So, again, it's a
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: lot of they're halfway there. Getting the final 50% is
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: going to be real difficult, and that's what this next
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: season is going to be about.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: AJ, are you pleased with the progress here? There are
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: some fans.
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: I just think it's ridiculous that they just don't. It's like,
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: sell the team. Learners, right? They're going to, yes.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: They've been quietly for sale for like five years.
• 35:52
  Speaker 5: They have been for sale, but I know there's a
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: reason why they haven't sold the team, but they're not... Honestly, Spencer,
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: and I know you're around the Nationals every day, but
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: are they trying? They're not trying. I mean, I know
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: they are trying, but are they trying? Or are they...
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: Trying to win the World Series. You play to win
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: the game. Herm Edwards, right? You play to win the game.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 36:16
  Speaker 5: Are they trying to win this World Series like they
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: did in 2019? Because I feel like and this is
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: what I said, you're very you're much more positive than
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: most Nationals people, fans that I talk to. You know,
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: we have prospects. The Orioles had prospects to another DFA
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: them all. So, I mean, you know, it's like at
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: some point you got to turn the prospects into players.
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: And I don't know. And you have proven players in.
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: CJ Abrams and James Wood and some of these other guys,
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: you know, I use Foster Griffin. Why didn't you extend him?
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: He's an all-star for you. You trade him away. I
• 36:48
  Speaker 5: know you got some nice pieces back, but I don't know.
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: It just seems like they can't get out of their
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: own way. And as someone that played in the National
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: League East for a few years, you know, it was
• 36:56
  Speaker 5: always a fun place to go. Washington, D.C., great ballpark.
• 36:59
  Speaker 5: Fans were there when they were good. Why can't we
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: get back to that? Maybe a better way to put it, Spencer,
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: is why is it taking so long?
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's taking so long because the foundation
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: is broken, right? Like, I think back to a year ago,
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: Rizzo had a lot of great acquisitions over the years.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: I don't dispute that. At the same time, all the processes,
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: all the back end stuff that we don't see on
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: the field was broken. I was as bearish as anyone
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: when it came to the Nationals' future a year and
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: a half ago. As you mentioned here, I am more
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: bullish on their future than most of the population now.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: And it's because I spend so much time talking to
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: people who, you know, think about that back and stuff,
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: who talk about projections. I talk to people on other
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: teams who are not necessarily bullish on the Nationals making
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: the postseason next year, but understand that what they have
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: in their front office and their coaching staff on their
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: roster is something that's worth building on. And so, again,
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: I understand for Nationals fans who have seen seven years
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: of real, real, real disappointment, being frustrated, wanting them to
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: go out and get a big arm. I would just
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: ask if you're talking about the sort of teams that,
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: you know, make not even make the post-season every year.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: Let's say, you know, your kind of argument of teams
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: that really go all in for the world series, you know,
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: year after year, even this year, how big is that group?
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: Like, would you put the white socks in that group?
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: Probably not, but they just.
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: Had a big leap.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Like there there's, there's a number of teams that
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: kind of have this steady build. And, um, part of
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: the reason why I'm so bullish that the nationals can
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: separate themselves from that pack is the size of their market.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: It's the fact that, again, we don't know exactly what
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: ownership is going to look like in a couple years. Again,
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: still no indication that they're going to sell immediately or
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: anything like that. And it's the fact they have James Wood,
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: Cade Cavalli, C. James on their roster. And if they
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: trade Abrams, you're getting a pretty good haulback. And I know,
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: I get it. I get it. It's tough for fans
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: to hear that. They do not want Abrams to go.
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: I just have enough faith in this foundation that I
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: think two years from now, you look up and they're
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: going to be in a pretty good spot. But that's
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: another two years of waiting. And so I, at the
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: same exact time, I understand the frustration.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Hey, I've got one more for you, Spencer. How motivating
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: is it for this group to see the Brewers and
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: the Rays just now meeting up in the world series
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: and those teams putting a lot into what you're talking about,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: the foundation and the structure behind the scenes that maybe
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: wasn't being treated in the same way. And, even from,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: I know we've talked about this too, and we talked
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: to Mike Rizzo about this. I mean, he called out
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: certain things he asked for, tech, budget, and all of that.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: And in my mind too, sometimes you've got the same
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: person in there for a long time. The boss is
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: just not going to approve things. And when someone new
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: comes in and says, hey, just so you know, you
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: need to approve these things. This has to be part
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: of our budget. that does play into getting a new
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: foundation and getting things that the Nats didn't have and
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: they should have. Yeah.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, I guess the best way I'd put it
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: in kind of in context of these brewers and raise, right.
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: Does that make the front office like a whole lot
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: more bullish that their, their futures break? Not necessarily, but
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: it shows a pathway. And I guess I'd hearken back
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: to a conversation. I remember having in the final couple
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: of days of spring training last year with Um, a
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: nationals executive, and we were kind of talking about big
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: picture stuff and, you know, I mentioned all the backend
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: stuff and, you know, the return on investment on that front.
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: And they were like, yeah, like at this point in
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: our rebuild and our understanding of where the franchise is at,
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: we need to focus on the backend stuff. Um, but
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: you get to a certain point and all of a
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: sudden the, you know, return on investment, so to speak,
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: or like adding all that backend stuff, it, it doesn't
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: necessarily hold the same weight that spending in free agency does.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: So I think the question for the Nationals is, when
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: are they at that point where they need to go
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: full throttle? I would argue that great foundation, plenty of
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: money to spend. They should spend some money this winter.
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: But it's hard to justify spending $ 300 million, $ 200 million,
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: $ 100 million on a roster that won 77 games last year.
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: It's just a bet that most GMs, most executives, sure,
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: they'd take the money, but It's just not something that
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: is usually done in Major League Baseball. And that's why
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: I say, hey, get that payroll up to 130, 120,
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: 110 this year, even 100. And then, you know, next season,
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: maybe make the big splash. But again, I understand the
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: frustrations on that front.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, you had me, Spencer. For most of this, I
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: was with you. That's the part that actually gets me
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: is we use the White Sox as the example. They
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: were a win away from the ALCS and they went
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: from you know, a hundred plus loss chaos to what
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: they did. I think it's easier now to flip it
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: than ever. First of all, we have more playoff teams
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: that automatically helps you. And I think a lot of
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: teams are operating in the same structure of trying to
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: get to a certain wind projection. So, I mean, in
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: many cases, teams will pass the wind projection and that's
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: where you get a club like the White Sox or
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: even the Brewers, but That's the part where I do disagree.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying the Nats should go spend the world.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: It's also just unrealistic. I'm sorry. It's a fact from
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: people that I've spoken to that they've been trying to
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: sell for a long time. They're going to get their
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: price eventually. But for me, I do think a few
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: moves sometimes can actually completely change it and put you
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: in the playoffs. I know the NL East can be
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: strong sometimes, but man, the Mets just stunk. The Phillies
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: were okay. The Braves had a nice season. There's a
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: lane here. To make noise.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: I think you're mostly accurate on that front. That's I
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: wouldn't push back on that. I just think if you're
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: a free agent, you know, why come to nationals, right?
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: If again, it's a team that won 77 games last year,
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: the Cubs or not the Cubs, excuse me, the white
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: socks were able to convince Murakami in a market that,
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: you know, basically no one else wanted him. I'm sure
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: if that player exists this year, the nationals, you know,
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: should go get that player and they should be condemned
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: if they don't get them right. Like we're at that stage.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: It's just, you know, you guys, you know, understand the
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: market as well. Like if you're a player who's set
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: to make $ 25 million next year, is the Nationals giving
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: you $ 28, $ 29, $ 30 million going to be the separator?
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: Or do you want to go, you know, make $ 25
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: million for a team that's supposed to compete for the
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: World Series? It's a question I don't know the answer to,
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: but that's why I just say the pathway towards getting these,
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: you know, upper echelon guys is difficult. But I don't
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: want to make excuses for the org either because I
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: think they do need to make the leap this season.
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: Ask Jason Wirth when he signed there. Ask Jason Wirth
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: when they signed Jason Wirth that time. Remember, it was like,
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: what are they doing? And then they went on to
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: win the World Series with him a few years later.
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: So ask them back then if it was worth paying
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: Jason Wirth maybe more than he was worth on the
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: free agent market. But he was the first guy.
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: Ask the Tigers when they signed Pudge Rodriguez after coming
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: off crappy back-to-back years. And then they signed him in
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: the next year or two. They're in the World Series
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: because other guys wanted to go there. Sometimes you have
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: to make that big splash to show free agents that.
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: You're willing to try. If you never try... Everyone goes,
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: they'll never pay me. Sometimes you have to try, Spencer.
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: That's all I'm saying.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's the same thing as the Andrew Friedman
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: quote from five, 10 years ago, right? If you're smart
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: on every free agent, you're going to finish third on
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: every free agent. I do think if they identify a
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: guy they really want, they have the money to go
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: out and get them. It's impossible for me to know
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: or sit here and say right now, yeah, say a Suzuki,
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: turn down that $ 25 million offer somewhere else and take
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: 30 from the Nats. I just don't know that that's
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: where they're at right now. But again, I very well
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: could be proven wrong at this stage. And, you know, again,
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: it's an ownership thing as much as it's anything else. Yeah.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: And also, I mean, there were some moves like the
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Strasburg move that definitely is staying burned inside the head
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: of the decision makers sometimes. But for a Strasburg move,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: you made the Scherzer move and brought the the team
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: and the fan base their best memories ever. So Spencer,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: good stuff. I mean, good, healthy debate. You could see
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: AJ's fired up, but we like talking about this stuff because,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: and I get it. If you're a fan and you're
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: sitting around for almost a decade, you're like, hello, are
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: you there? Let's go. So hope you enjoyed it, dude.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: And we'll catch you soon. Okay. Yeah.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: It's fun to hear the other side. Yeah.
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: I'm with you. I'm with you. And you can hear
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: plenty of this discussion on district territory. So please check
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: it out. Um, it's Eric shell house, part of bat
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: boys crew, uh, Kevin Franzen, who's on the broadcast every
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: freaking game for the nationals. And then, um, Spencer, uh,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: running point with them as well, but really, really good
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: conversation to see where the Nats are at right now,
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: how they feel they're at and how these guys in
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: history feel they're at.