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DDH - 10-15: The Arrest of Hawley Harvey Crippen · Plausibly Live - The Dave Bowman Show Podcast

• 0:00
  History's strange, it's alien, and it won't give us what we
• 0:04
  would like to have. And if it is the final hour of a
• 0:10
  Tuesday on Bill Mick Live, it brings you Dave does history as
• 0:14
  Dave Bowman joins us every Tuesday.
• 0:16
  And in this final hour, we let Dave take us on a tour of the
• 0:19
  past and give us a look at that in a very unique way.
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  Dave, what are we digging into this morning, Sir?
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  So I have this theory about people and it's a strange
• 0:34
  theory, I guess maybe it's a standard theory and people don't
• 0:37
  change. They do the same things for the
• 0:41
  same reasons with the same results throughout all of
• 0:45
  history. In fact, that's I have a list of
• 0:50
  Dave's 10 laws and that's the second one.
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  People don't change. What does change, though, is
• 0:55
  technology. And it's that change in
• 0:59
  technology that convinces people that, well, this time it will be
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  different. It never is, but it'll have some
• 1:07
  convincing themselves of that. In the late summer, early fall
• 1:12
  of 1910, over in London, an American expat expat Sorry,
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  found himself in what can best be described as a typical love
• 1:25
  triangle. There's nothing particularly
• 1:29
  unusual about this love triangle, and it ends up, as
• 1:34
  many of these do, in the death of one of the three people
• 1:36
  involved and the attempted escape of the other two.
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  It's an age-old tale of murder and love, and it seems all too
• 1:44
  predictable by our standards. But this time things would be
• 1:48
  different. Why?
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  Because technology had advanced a new invention, radio had
• 1:55
  suddenly connected the world, and Holly Harvey Crippen, who
• 2:00
  was an American doctor, now finds himself in the center of
• 2:05
  one of the most sensational murder cases of the earliest 20
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  of the early 20th century. He was born in Michigan in 1862,
• 2:12
  moved to London where he lived with his wife Cora, who was
• 2:17
  Bill, a Music Hall performer, which is code for can Can
• 2:24
  dancer. OK, I was going to say stripper.
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  Well, there you go. Not surprisingly, their
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  relationship is full of trouble, and in this late summer, early
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  fall of 1910, his wife Cora mysteriously disappears.
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  Now Crippen, when questioned about it, will claim that she
• 2:47
  had returned to America because she didn't like London.
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  But suspicions are going to be aroused when police, who are
• 2:57
  sort of investigating this, find a dismembered body in the cellar
• 3:03
  of their home. OK, bad hiding place.
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  At that point, Crippen does what people do and he himself
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  disappears with the woman that he's already having an affair
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  with. Sounds suspicious?
• 3:21
  Well, it certainly did the Scotland Yard.
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  But he's not going to get away with it and his capture will
• 3:27
  mark a historic moment in criminal investigations as it is
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  going to be the first case in which radio is involved to
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  apprehend a fugitive. It's the first Bill, 10/15.
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  I like it. There you go.
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  And when they attempt to escape to Canada, they will not make it
• 3:45
  because radio is going to change the world.
• 3:49
  And we pick it up in 60 seconds with Dave does history on Bill
• 3:52
  Mick live. Dave does history taking a look
• 3:55
  at the This could be a movie of the week, Dave.
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  I'm liking it so far. Harvey Crippen the being the
• 4:03
  chief suspect. Yes, first name is actually
• 4:05
  Holly, Holly Harvey Crippen. And he's going to become
• 4:10
  internationally famous, although it seems like a strange thing to
• 4:14
  to do. In 1900, he moves from the
• 4:17
  United States to London. Now he is trained and I use that
• 4:21
  word loosely as a homeopathic Dr. Homeopathic, of course, the
• 4:28
  scientific word for snake oil salesman.
• 4:33
  These are these are people that you know, I don't want to spend
• 4:37
  a lot of time on homeopathic stuff, but but it's a fraud and
• 4:42
  you know you're. You know you're going to get my
• 4:43
  e-mail loaded up here, right? Well, good.
• 4:46
  I mean, I come from a family of circus performers many years
• 4:51
  ago. So there you go.
• 4:53
  Carnies. He's he, he figures he's got a
• 4:58
  better shot at doing this over in London.
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  And so he moves his wife with his wife Cora, who, as I said,
• 5:04
  is a Music Hall performer, which is a great code name for
• 5:08
  probably, you know, stripper. They moved to London.
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  The, the marriage is not good. The marriage is, well, I mean,
• 5:20
  it's, it's typical. And of course, while he's over
• 5:22
  in London, he meets another young lady by the name of Ethel
• 5:26
  Lenev, who he begins to take up with.
• 5:31
  Which sounds more like a stripper named Dave.
• 5:33
  It it actually does, although Cora I don't know.
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  So naturally Cora knows about this or at least suspects all
• 5:43
  this. It strains the relationship and
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  she begins to belittle Holly for his lack of success.
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  Because as it turns out, you know, homeopathy isn't a isn't a
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  corpse to to wealthy and riches unless you happen to own the the
• 6:02
  patent company. She she has a larger than life
• 6:07
  personality. Cora does and it's a stark
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  contrast to her husband, Holly, who's mild mannered and
• 6:13
  reserved. But his his affair with, with
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  Ethel begins to lead to, you know, some unhappiness and, and
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  the likes of that the the social scene, which Cora loves, Holly
• 6:31
  doesn't like. He prefers to be with with with
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  Ethel. And this really begins to clash.
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  It really begins to cause a lot of financial strain because she
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  wants to spend money. Cora wants to spend money, He's
• 6:46
  not making a lot of money, so forth and so on.
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  It Bill. This is the typical description
• 6:53
  of a love triangle of that era. I mean, there's nothing unusual
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  here until things get weird, the marriage devolves into a
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  resentment, discontent, and eventually weird stuff starts
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  happening. Ethel, by the way, is much
• 7:19
  younger than Crippen. In fact, there are rumors Bill,
• 7:23
  that she's not even of legal age yet.
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  She's soft spoken. She's very that and eventually
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  they become so enamoured with one another and the the hen
• 7:37
  packing of Korra becomes so overwhelming that the accusation
• 7:45
  is that Holly, well, he snaps. And because he's a homeopathic
• 7:52
  Dr. and now a pharmacist, he has access to certain chemicals
• 8:01
  which may or may not become involved in this.
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  It's hard to say because it's 1910 and forensic science isn't
• 8:10
  exactly, you know, where you want it to be yet.
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  OK. Cora disappears now because Cora
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  is socially, you know, a butterfly.
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  She's a dances, she's at at parties.
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  She's well known and well connected.
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  This disappearance does not go unnoticed.
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  People want to know, hey, where's Cora, what's going on?
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  And eventually they decide to ask Holly because, well, he is
• 8:46
  her husband. Even though most of them
• 8:49
  probably know things aren't going well, we figure we should
• 8:56
  ask him and his excuse, his response is what you would
• 9:00
  almost expect me. This is literally like you said,
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  it's right out of Hollywood. This like, you know, Gone Girl
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  or something like that. He says, hey, she doesn't like
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  it here. She went back to America.
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  Now, most of the folks involved with this are immediately
• 9:18
  suspicious of that because Cora has been having a great time
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  over here in merry old England. She's fit in very well with
• 9:27
  London society, even if Holly did not.
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  And there's a bigger problem after Cora disappears.
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  Ethel Young Ethel is seen wearing the jewelry that Cora
• 9:42
  used to wear. The O.
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  And that causes people to go, hey, wait a minute, maybe, maybe
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  there is something here. And coming from somebody like me
• 9:57
  who and you, who, you know, lived through the Scott Peterson
• 10:01
  situation in Modesto, CA, it starts raising suspicions.
• 10:07
  Things aren't adding up here. And eventually someone goes to
• 10:11
  the police and says, we think there's something suspicious
• 10:15
  going on here. We think you should go
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  investigate. And the police Scotland Yard
• 10:22
  finally gets involved. We'll take a look at the
• 10:27
  investigation, where it takes us, and how radio gets involved
• 10:30
  as Dave does. History continues on Bill Mick
• 10:32
  Live. We pick it up in moments right
• 10:35
  here on 92.7 FM WMMB, our weekly dive into history.
• 10:42
  Dave Bowman joins us on Bill Mick Live.
• 10:46
  The McPherson Financial Group. This our sponsor of the program
• 10:50
  as we get into the murder tale of Holly Harvey Crippen.
• 10:56
  If we're going to call him by all three, we he has to be a
• 10:58
  serial killer, Dave. So you're going by Holly, right?
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  That's who we're looking at here.
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  Yeah, or Cripp. I don't know.
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  I don't know what his friends call it.
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  He didn't seem to have a lot of friends.
• 11:08
  So there you go. Yeah, it's a.
• 11:11
  It's a story, Bill, that could have been ripped right out of
• 11:14
  the pages of the Modesto Bee in in 2006 with Scott Peterson.
• 11:18
  I mean, it's a love triangle. It's a stressful marriage, and
• 11:24
  there's a disappearance. And there's this sympathetic
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  husband who's, I mean, for those of you who don't remember it,
• 11:35
  you know, Scott Peterson went on TV that night and appealed to
• 11:38
  everybody to help find his wife. And you can almost see Crippen
• 11:42
  doing the same thing. I mean, it's the same kind of of
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  approach to things. After Cora suddenly disappears,
• 11:51
  friends want to know what's going on, what's happening with
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  where's Cora? Because they like Cora, even if
• 11:56
  they don't really like him all that much.
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  And they sort of note that he's having this affair.
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  But you know what? It's not all that an unusual
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  thing to be going on in Edwardian England.
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  But Crippen had had Ethel move into the house.
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  She begins wearing Cora's clothing and jewelry and you
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  know this, this causes a lot of conversation.
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  Do we know if she knows that the murder was done?
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  Not yet. OK.
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  The police, of course, come to the house.
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  They want to know what's going on.
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  Hey, we've had reports of Cora missing.
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  And initially, as they, they hang around, they, they don't
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  find anything suspicious. Crippen's calm demeanor, his
• 12:42
  willingness to cooperate are very reassuring.
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  Dot dot dot at first, but it's his later behavior that begins
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  to cause suspicion to turn again.
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  This you could take this right out of the pages of the Modesto
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  Bee. It is it is amazing.
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  People don't change. They do the same things for the
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  same reasons. And he begins to his story isn't
• 13:09
  holding water bill and you know how it is.
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  You're an investigator. The harder the police push, the
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  more his answers don't seem to make sense.
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  He claims that Cora went to America to visit family.
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  Then he claims that while she's there, she died.
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  Well, how would he know all of these kind of things?
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  Why is Ethel wearing her clothing?
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  What's stuff is not making sense here?
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  And of course, as the pressure builds, it's almost predictable
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  what's going to happen Again, it's right out of a Hollywood
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  script. Just like Scott Peterson was
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  arrested in San Diego with $10,000 in cash in his pockets
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  and blonde hair, the pressure is building on Holly and all of a
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  sudden he too disappears. Let's get back to Dave does
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  history. So the cops are getting more and
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  more suspicious and Holly cannot keep his story together, which
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  is the fun part. As an investigator, just let
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  people talk. They're going to tell you.
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  They will tell you eventually. It's, it's like I said, if you,
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  if you ever followed the Scott Peterson story, and I go back to
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  that story because it was big in in Modesto when both Bill and I
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  were there. You just watch the police and I
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  know several of the police officers that were involved with
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  this and it's the same thing. The story keeps changing.
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  The story keeps getting weaker and weaker and weaker and, and,
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  and eventually stuff breaks. And what happened in Scott
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  Peterson's case is, well, they found a body.
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  Guess what they find here? They searched the house where
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  where Cora and and Holly had lived and underneath the stone
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  floor in the basement, they find remains.
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  Now they are decomposed and they are dismembered and it's
• 15:07
  mutilated. This isn't, as I said, the 21st
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  century. So forensic scientists, science
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  isn't up to standard, but the body cannot be positively
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  identified as coras. But who else's would it be?
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  I mean, it's clearly not ethyl, so who would it be?
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  I mean, that's really what it comes down to.
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  And of course, it's at this moment that Holly and Ethel
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  disappear. Soon as the bodies found, just
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  like Scott Peterson, they they take off because now, well,
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  suspicion is clearly pointed at them and the police now are on
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  the now they're on the case. Now we got to find these guys
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  before they get away. After their discovery of the
• 15:57
  human remains, Holly and Ethel make the desperate attempt to
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  flee London. They get on a ship and they
• 16:05
  choose a ship Bill that is going not to a merit.
• 16:09
  Well, it is going to America, but not the United States.
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  And this is what happens with criminals is they they tend to
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  make mistakes. They choose a ship that's going
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  to Canada, which in 1910 is still part of Great Britain.
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  Didn't think that through very well.
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  In the hopes of avoiding detection during their escape,
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  Crippen shaves off his very distinctive mustache.
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  He adopts a more inconspicuous look to himself.
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  And Ethel, who is 27 years old, decides to dress as a boy.
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  She appears to be a young lad. She's slight aframe and and
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  they're hoping that by her adopting this masculine
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  appearance that she can pose as Crippen's son.
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  And with their new identities, they had they board the s s
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  Montrose, a passenger liner that is bound for Canada.
• 17:11
  Now ultimately they hope to get to North America and then get
• 17:13
  into the United States, start a new life.
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  But the problem is Scotland Yard is hot on their tails.
• 17:23
  They hope that the disguise is good enough.
• 17:25
  They hope that they can get away with this, but but who knows?
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  The problem is that they get on a ship, the s s Montrose, which
• 17:32
  has new wireless technology, which is radio.
• 17:36
  That's what we call radio wireless.
• 17:38
  And it's going to be a couple of years before the Titanic sinks
• 17:43
  and we get, you know, the famous SOS signals and those sorts of
• 17:46
  things. But you happen to have a captain
• 17:49
  of this ship that really is into this technology stuff.
• 17:52
  He really likes this stuff and he has trained his crew very
• 17:55
  well to use it. And he's also a very observant
• 17:59
  man. And he reads the papers.
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  He knows what's going on. He knows this story.
• 18:05
  He knows that this this man who was suspected of killing and
• 18:09
  dismembering his wife is trying to has disappeared.
• 18:13
  And so he instructs his crew to keep, you know, an extra lie
• 18:16
  outlook for suspicious characters.
• 18:18
  And of course, he happens to note as the ship sails away.
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  And by the way, the S S Montrose is very slow.
• 18:26
  She's very slow ship. And as they're sailing away, he
• 18:29
  notices this man with his son, who seemed suspicious, although
• 18:37
  Crippman had an altered his appearance and Ethel was dressed
• 18:41
  as a son. The captain, a guy by the name
• 18:43
  of Kendall, had seen their photographs in the newspaper and
• 18:46
  he was familiar with the case. And he has his radio operator
• 18:51
  send a message to Scotland Yard saying, hey, there's a couple
• 18:54
  people on this ship and I think it's Crippen.
• 18:58
  And Scotland Yard says, hey, thanks a lot.
• 19:03
  And they go and find a faster ship and put their best man on
• 19:09
  it. Makes you wonder what would have
• 19:13
  happened if Scotland Yard said turn that thing around rather
• 19:17
  than going and chasing it. Yeah, but it's going to Canada,
• 19:20
  so they don't have to worry about that.
• 19:23
  Yeah, they could get a message to Canada even.
• 19:25
  So. Hey, interesting.
• 19:26
  We'll see where it goes. As Dave Does History continues.
• 19:29
  Your views are always welcome. Call Bill now, 321-768-1240.
• 19:37
  And if you've missed anything we've done all day, including
• 19:39
  this hour, Dave does History. You'll find them, the On Demand
• 19:42
  podcast section, top of the page at billmic.com.
• 19:45
  Right next to it, the Florida Roundtable podcast there for
• 19:48
  your perusal, the McPherson Financial Group.
• 19:51
  This our sponsor is Dave gets us into the heat of the chase and a
• 19:55
  murder that now involves for the first time ever radio.
• 19:59
  Very cool, Dave. So these radio signals are sent
• 20:02
  back to Scotland Yard. Scotland Yard says, ah, we're on
• 20:05
  it. And the Scotland Yard detective
• 20:11
  guy by the name of Chief Inspector Walter Do boards
• 20:14
  another ship, which is actually faster than the the ship that
• 20:18
  the Crippen is on. And he arrives in in Canada
• 20:22
  before they do. And he actually poses as the
• 20:25
  harbor pilot. So he gets put on the ship, you
• 20:27
  know, while it's still at sea. And a very tense moment.
• 20:31
  We don't have time to go through the whole thing, but it's much
• 20:34
  like Scott Peterson in San Diego on the golf course.
• 20:37
  He gets arrested. He and Ethel get arrested and
• 20:40
  charged with this murder. And of course, they get hauled
• 20:42
  back to London to stand trial for this murder.
• 20:47
  Now, the murder is circumstantial, but all evidence
• 20:52
  is circumstantial. And in a way, there's toxicology
• 20:55
  reports that show that there may be some chemicals that he would
• 20:58
  have had access to as a pharmacist in the body.
• 21:02
  There are some identifying marks, which might be Cora.
• 21:07
  But you know, again, who else would it be is the question that
• 21:11
  you got to ask. And it doesn't take the jury
• 21:15
  long. In fact, on October 22nd, 1910,
• 21:20
  the jury deliberates for a total of 27 minutes bill and returns a
• 21:26
  guilty verdict at the Old Bailey condemning Crippen to death
• 21:32
  because he has committed this murder.
• 21:35
  Now that's October 22nd. One month and one day later,
• 21:41
  November 23rd, Holly Harvey Crippen is executed at
• 21:46
  Peytonville Prison for this murder that he maintains he did
• 21:53
  not commit, which is not unusual.
• 21:56
  Again, most people in this situation would say we didn't.
• 22:01
  I didn't do it, I didn't do it, I didn't do it.
• 22:03
  And he kept saying he didn't do it right up until the end.
• 22:08
  Again, it's not all that unusual of a of a murder case, except
• 22:13
  for this element of radio getting involved with this
• 22:15
  because this is the first time that technology has changed the
• 22:19
  world. And you just happen to have a
• 22:21
  captain of the ship who was very interested in this and was very
• 22:25
  aware of what was going on. Most captains in that era didn't
• 22:30
  necessarily see radio as anything useful.
• 22:32
  In fact, the Titanic's captain pretty much sends his radio
• 22:37
  operator to bed. You know, we don't, we don't
• 22:40
  need all this nonsense. We don't need all this noise.
• 22:43
  But this captain, he's really into this and he uses radio,
• 22:48
  uses it well and in the process helps capture what is of course,
• 22:53
  a suspected murderer and now a convicted murderer as of as of
• 22:57
  this date and soon to be an executed murder.
• 23:02
  But we remember the case primarily because of this use of
• 23:05
  radio and this this technology that leads to his to his
• 23:09
  capture. But Bill, it's a murder case.
• 23:15
  And as people have begun to look at the murder case in the
• 23:20
  subsequent 114 years, there are questions about the evidence.
• 23:27
  The body never was positively identified.
• 23:32
  Is it possible that it wasn't Cora?
• 23:38
  Some evidence might seem to appear.
• 23:40
  There's a there's a scar on the body which supposedly is part of
• 23:47
  the identification, but later on analysis of the photographs
• 23:51
  indicates that it's not in the right place.
• 23:55
  The scar may not be the right scar.
• 24:00
  Is it possible that he didn't actually commit the murder and
• 24:05
  maybe we execute? Maybe not not we, but maybe
• 24:08
  England executed an innocent man.
• 24:12
  I have questions, Dave. You have questions, everybody
• 24:15
  has questions, which again, everything cycles around.
• 24:19
  I mean, this is right where we are in the Scott Peterson case
• 24:23
  where his death penalty is on hold because there are people
• 24:27
  questioning the evidence. What if he didn't do it?
• 24:30
  What if it was the South American gangs who, who came in
• 24:36
  there and did this as a, as a drug warning or something along
• 24:39
  those lines? Of course, it's a little too
• 24:41
  late for Mr. Crippen. And even if it wasn't he, you
• 24:44
  know, 114 years on, he'd probably be dead anyway.
• 24:47
  But we'll never know the actual answers.
• 24:51
  What we will know is that technology changes things.
• 24:55
  And in 1910, technology helped catch a suspect for the very
• 25:01
  first time in history. We pick it up.
• 25:05
  Take your thoughts, if you have them, at 321-768-1240 and 60
• 25:09
  seconds on WMMB. All right, Dave, let's walk back
• 25:14
  through this body recovery scene for a minute.
• 25:19
  It's in the basement of Crippen's house.
• 25:22
  It's a stone floor. And if this body is buried
• 25:26
  beneath that stone, I mean, that stone was dug up at some point
• 25:29
  by whoever buried it. And the there would be telltale
• 25:36
  signs that those stones had been messed with and that that was
• 25:39
  had been done the the decomposition of the body not to
• 25:43
  the point that they didn't think they found identifying marks on
• 25:47
  it. So it was a relatively fresh
• 25:49
  grave in this guy's own basement.
• 25:52
  Well, the body was was decomposing yes and they did
• 25:56
  find some identifying marks. The question is, are they the
• 26:02
  right identifying Marks? And again he.
• 26:05
  Is this is a relatively fresh grave?
• 26:08
  It's not been. I don't know that I wasn't.
• 26:11
  Underneath that house, yeah. I assume that it was, you know,
• 26:15
  who knows? I mean, in 1910, forensic
• 26:18
  science, it's in its infancy, Bill.
• 26:22
  It's not, you know, I understand there's, there's, there's no,
• 26:25
  you know, TV show where they solved the murder in 32 minutes
• 26:29
  and, and, and that sort of thing.
• 26:31
  So, and there was a noted pathology.
• 26:34
  Patience of who the body may have been if it weren't Cora.
• 26:37
  That's the thing. I don't think that they ever
• 26:39
  assumed that it was anybody else.
• 26:41
  Doctor Bernard Spilsbury, who was a noted pathologist at the
• 26:45
  time, testified that the remains had a scar consistent with 1
• 26:49
  Cora had from a surgery and that was used as the primary piece of
• 26:53
  forensic evidence to link the body to Cora.
• 26:55
  However, the identification of such scars was a relatively
• 26:59
  subjective process. And keep in mind there is no DNA
• 27:03
  testing at this point. Now the remains were wrapped in
• 27:08
  a pajama top, which happened to be known to belong to Crippen
• 27:14
  and there was there were no dental records.
• 27:20
  So you know how you going to do that.
• 27:23
  Notably, key parts of the body were missing.
• 27:25
  The skull, the limbs are all missing.
• 27:27
  Where where are those? And really all you're looking at
• 27:31
  is is Crippen's behavior. Now in the early 2000s they did
• 27:35
  a re examination the case using DNA testing.
• 27:38
  Samples taken from the preserved tissue were compared with the
• 27:42
  living descendants of Korres family and the the the results
• 27:46
  suggested that the remains were not Korus.
• 27:50
  In fact they were more likely those of a male victim rather
• 27:55
  than a female victim. So now we're into well what if
• 28:02
  Cora was having an affair and Holly found out about it, killed
• 28:06
  the dude, put him in his basement and Cora, thinking that
• 28:09
  he was going to frame her for it, took off.
• 28:14
  It's a plausible explanation. Raises possibilities.
• 28:17
  But we don't know. And this is it's the same as the
• 28:21
  Scott Peterson case. We don't know.
• 28:24
  We think we, Ethel and Neb, did she know of the murder or was it
• 28:30
  a hey, look, they're going to accuse me of this?
• 28:32
  If we're going to be happy at all, we got to get out of here.
• 28:34
  We've got to go to the United States.
• 28:35
  We've got to leave. Well, I think that Ethel was
• 28:38
  probably more of a she's very young.
• 28:43
  She's, you know, 27. She was charged with being an
• 28:46
  accessory after the fact of the murder, but she was acquitted
• 28:50
  during her trial. So we don't know.
• 28:54
  We don't know what she knew. She faded from the public eye
• 28:57
  and that was it. She, you know, she eventually
• 29:02
  married a man by the name of Stanley Smith in 1915.
• 29:05
  They had two children. Spent the rest of her life away
• 29:07
  from the spotlight, as you would want be, want to do.
• 29:10
  Died at the age of 80. Four, 1967.
• 29:13
  Oh wow, where did where did they go?
• 29:17
  Where was she? She went back to London, got got
• 29:19
  married to this guy and then died in 67.
• 29:22
  So but again, there's so many parallels to this.
• 29:25
  To me, there are so many parallels with with the case
• 29:29
  that I'm very familiar with the Scott Peterson case that just it
• 29:32
  just reminds me that people don't change.
• 29:35
  They do the same things for the same reasons with the same
• 29:37
  results and technology changes around them.
• 29:40
  And in this particular case, not that's what I don't want to lose
• 29:43
  sight of today. In all of the, in all of the,
• 29:47
  the, the, the salacious details of the case.
• 29:50
  It's radio Bill, our medium, our love of this, of this
• 29:56
  communications method that actually manages to catch this
• 29:59
  guy before he can get away with murder.
• 30:02
  And in its very early days, that's pretty cool.
• 30:05
  Yes, it is. I think you're right on the on
• 30:08
  the point of people don't change.
• 30:11
  Human beings are and have the same emotional, same
• 30:17
  intellectual abilities and and conduct themselves in the same
• 30:22
  ways as they always have. Technology may make some of it
• 30:25
  easier, make some of it faster, make some of it more relevant
• 30:30
  day-to-day, but people are still people, and we're surrounded by
• 30:35
  idiots. Well, and it's that technology
• 30:37
  that that continues to work. I mean, that's how they caught
• 30:40
  Scott Peterson in San Diego. They were basically tracking
• 30:42
  your cell phone. So you know, it's it's the same
• 30:46
  technology just updated by 100 years.
• 30:50
  Fascinating story to me. Speaking of Scott Peterson, his
• 30:54
  wife Lacey and and son Connor, who was yet unborn that he
• 30:58
  killed her mother, Sharon Rocha. What a strong person.
• 31:03
  Wrote a book about it, came in and talked to us for an hour on
• 31:06
  the air in Modesto and it one of the strongest characters that I
• 31:11
  have seen, having gone through that and Laci, beautiful,
• 31:15
  beautiful lady and it just. It was shocking and, and of
• 31:20
  course I knew Scott. Most of the people I work with
• 31:24
  knew Scott and, and so, and it was the same kind of thing.
• 31:26
  I mean, you, you have the same story over and over and over
• 31:30
  again. But I don't want to lose sight
• 31:32
  of radio cause 'cause radio's what I do, radio's what I love.
• 31:35
  And this was the first time in history that radio was used to
• 31:38
  collar a suspect. Yeah, that, that is an
• 31:42
  interesting and and good use of the technology.
• 31:45
  I might add, the the older you become as a policeman, the more
• 31:49
  you tell folks I don't have to run after bad guys.
• 31:51
  They gave me a radio and and thank goodness they do.
• 31:55
  Yep. What are we doing next week,
• 31:56
  Dave? Next week we're going to talk
• 31:57
  about the only enlisted man, the only enlisted submariner to ever
• 32:02
  receive the Medal of Honor with the loss of the submarine USS
• 32:06
  05. All right, we will do that with
• 32:10
  Dave does History next Tuesday on Bill Mick live.
• 32:14
  Dave Bowman, always a pleasure, my friend.
• 32:15
  Thank you. Great story.
• 32:17
  We need to make that one a movie of the week, I'm telling you.
• 32:19
  We'll see you next week. Check out more.
• 32:24
  Stories from history at Dave Does History.
• 32:26
  Dot. Org.