Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / Ep. 252 ~ A Five Layer Cake

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Ep. 252 ~ A Five Layer Cake · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:06
You remember, like Bob Clark and Doug Campbell, they actually devoted their show
0:13
what was it called the lines of the lines of Futcher Party, What right
0:17
show? Yeah? What an embarrassment? I mean everything is going to hall
0:27
down here inducted data don't go yeah oh lah, Me and me goes,
1:18
what is happening? It's your boy. The trip will be big Bad Vibe
1:23
otherwise known as Rob Clark. Here with you for another exciting edition of the
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Lone Guming Podcast, episode number two hundred and fifty two. Folks, Today,
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we're gonna get into an article written back in the nineteen eighties by William
1:45
Weston, but it contains a lot of good information that we may need to
1:49
reflect upon to help us try to figure out what and the sam hell was
1:53
going on inside that schoolbook depository on November twenty two, nineteen and sixty three.
2:04
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me later, peace, Thank you be bad Bob for that florious advertisement there.
4:27
Before we get into the meat to the show, I'm wanna see you're
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out a couple of things here. They have k Lancer Conference this year Folks
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November seventeenth through the nineteenth at the Lorenzo Hotel in Dallas. If you can
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get there. If you can't get there, Assassination Conference dot com for the
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virtual presentation. You can register now at JFK Lancer Publications dot com for registration
4:59
details and ticket options. Some of the speakers include big deals like Alan Dale
5:10
He's a big deal. Will Sippage, He's a big deal. John Newman,
5:15
big deal. Larry Hancock, he's a big deal. Robert Grodin he's
5:24
a big deal. Bart Camp he's a big deal. Rob Clark and Joe
5:31
Borelli we're big deals. Now. Everybody's speaking there this year is a big
5:40
deal, iggest but it would take me entirely too long to list every speaker
5:45
speaking there this year. They'll just do yourself a favor. Head over to
5:53
JFK Lancer Publications dot com for registration details and ticket options. So this year
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years November in Dallas conference. That's the twenty seventh annual and this is the
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sixtieth anniversary of the assassination of our president. It's a big deal. It's
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a landmark year and it is a honor and privilege to be presenting this year
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with my friend Joe Borelli at JFK Lanser. So make sure you are checking
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that out fotes. Also, friend of the show, Jason Sealman, has
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created a sixtieth anniversary commemorative of edition lego art set of the Okay. They
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when completed, you can frame it and hang it on your wall. It
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is definitely a conversation piece and very unique. In fact, only sixty of
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these hand packaged sets will be made, so get them why you can.
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You can email Jason at Jason at the number two b N dot c A.
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That's Jason at who we n dot c A for details and orders.
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What are yours today and if you're going to be at the lafter conference this
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yere Jason will hand deliver them to you and that'll save you about thirty bucks
7:30
on shipping and handling. Thirty to forty bucks. And you can get these
7:34
sets already put together so you don't have to put it together. But that's
7:40
no fun. You know, a Lego set, you're supposed to put it
7:44
together yourself, folks. So if you put it together yourself, it's definitely
7:48
about fifty bucks cheaper. And there's three thousand, four hundred pieces, so
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it's very detailed, very intricate, and it looks great. There are two
8:03
options, ones called divisionary the man who stood for a strong, peaceful nation,
8:09
and there's the hopeful, the father to a country with dreams to last
8:13
generations, and they are both awesome looking. He did a great job.
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So if you'd like to get yourself something to commemorate the sixtieth anniversary of the
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death of our beloved President John F. Kennedy, you can't go wrong with
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the custom limited edition Lego art set again. Contact Jason at two be in
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dot CA for more details and to order yours today. All right, let's
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get into the shizzo for today. Now. Had you been following me on
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YouTube and getting notified whenever I dropped something there, you would already know exactly
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what I'm going to talk about today, and that is the Fifth Floor Sniper
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by William Weston, one of my favorites. I guess you could call him
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a third generation researcher if you will, and he put together an article that
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appeared in the third decade, which came out in the eighties at some point.
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I don't know exactly when it did it or what issue it was in,
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but a little searching around on Mary farrell site, we'll get you there.
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Okay, just put in fifth Floor Sniper William Weston and you should find
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it no problem. Now. I wanted to go through this because this is
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one of the most confusing portions of the assassination, and that is what is
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going on inside the school book depository at the time of the assassination. You
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have all these stories from all these different people, and it's so hard to
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keep track of and it's so hard to you know, who do you believe?
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Whose story do you believe? Do you believe this person because they say
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something different than that person, So do you believe this person? And discount
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that person? And vice versa, and so on and so forth. And
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it is all very confusing. But hopefully going back and revisiting these things from
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time to time, like I want to do on this show, we'll give
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us a little bit better perspective on where people were and what they were doing
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at the time of the assassination inside the school book depository. And glad bless
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William Weston. You know, folks, this this this uh paper was written
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at a different time. So I'm going to leave out the adjective describing some
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of the workers in the little bit depository. I really don't think we need
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to classify them any further than their name. It doesn't matter if they were
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black, white, purple, green, pink. You know, they're they're
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people, Okay, So we don't need to call them as he classes them
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in here, blacks or negroes or colors or anything like that. So I'm
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gonna try to leave all that out. Hopefully nothing slips through the cracks,
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but I'm gonna try, all right, So it starts off Dusty. An
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appointment to serve on the Warning Commission was a golden opportunity the lawyers seeking to
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enhance the prestige of their resumes. Yet it surely was not an easy assignment.
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It was not the goal that was creating difficulties, for that was straightforwardly
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simple, proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that one and only one assassin
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murdered President Kennedy. The hard part was trying to sift through a mountain of
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confusing government documents and eyewitness accounts and make them fit together and a coherent framework.
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Among the more daunting challenges they faced was explaining the rapid sequence of hits
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as shown and there's a Prouter film, an indication that more than one assassin
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was involved. They also had to work with two widely different versions of Kennedy's
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wounds, had seen by a medical personnel in Dallas and by the autopsy doctors
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in Washington. And somehow they had to figure out how to handle dozens of
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eyewitness reports which asserted that the shots came from the area of the Grassy Knoll
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and not from the school book depository. They resolved these and other complex issues
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in a manner which more or less justified satisfied sorry the media and government establishments,
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if not the majority of the American public at the time. Yet there
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was one problem that gave them no end of trouble. And ultimately it defeated
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them. It was their inability to explain how the assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald
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managed to escape from the book depository that was their formidable stumbling block. Important
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questions were glossed over by focusing on peripheral matters, such as devising elaborate tests
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which demonstrated that it was indeed feasible for Oswald to three down from the sixth
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floor the second within the tight parameters of the official chronology. The real issue
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was not how fast Oswald could move, but rather how he managed to slip
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by employees who could have seen him of the fifth floor. On the fifth
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floor, there were four witnesses occupying key areas which gave them the potential of
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proving or disproving the contention that Oswald was on the sixth floor. A critical
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examination of the testimonies of these witnesses reveals that they are distorted by numerous assertions.
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I believe that serious considerations should be given to the possibility that a sniper
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was shooting not from the sixth floor but from the fifth. Of course,
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this leads to the question of whether or not the fifth floor witnesses were cognizant
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of a plot against the president and of the gunman who was preparing to shoot
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at him. To answer this question is necessary to determine who these witnesses were
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and what they were doing when the assassination occurred. All right, So there's
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a big, bold claim, folks. William Weston is going to try to
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prove through all this testimony and YadA YadA, hearsay that the assassin was shooting
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from the fifth floor and not to six. Now, I do find it
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hard to believe and this is me, Bob talking to you here that had
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Lee Harvey Oswald been on the sixth floor and descended via the rear farewell,
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that he would not have been seen or heard by anyone on the fifth floor,
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which included three depositors, three of the and I said, I wasn't
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going to do this, three of the black co workers, and I only
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knew this to differentiate them from the other co worker of Lee Harvey Oswald's that
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was alleged to be on the fifth floor at the time of the shots,
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and that's Doherty, who was a whitey. So and then you run into
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the problem of the girls on the fourth floor. They didn't see Lee Harvey
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Oswald or here Lee Harvey Oswald coming down the stairs either and allegedly upon running
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into the building, the elevators were stuck on the fifth floor, so the
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sniper could not have, you know, hopped on the elevator and got down
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to the first floor and get out of the building. So here we go
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now. One of these workers on the fifth floor was Harold Hank Norman,
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twenty six year old, who worked at the book depository for two years as
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an order filler, the same kind of position that Oswald had at the company.
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The job entailed checking order forms, retrieving textbooks from the stock rooms,
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and bringing them to the shipping department, where they were wrapped and mailed out
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to the public schools that ordered them. A few weeks after the assassination,
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Norman got a new job at the Foxborough Company, which was in the business
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of engineer instrumentation. He had a friend named James Junior Jarman, a thirty
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four year old man. Between layoffs and rehires, Jarman had worked off and
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on the depository for about seven years. His duties were to check the work
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of the order fillers and help out in the shipping department on the first floor.
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When the day of the presidential motorcade was to pass through Dallas. Jarman
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and Norman were outside, standing near the curb of Elm Street, where they
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thought they could get a close look at the president. Growing crowds along the
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street were making it difficult for them to see, so at twelve fifteen or
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twelve twenty they decided to go back into the building and see the parade from
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the windows of the fifth floor. There were two elevators that could have taken
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them to that floor, and they were located side by side, occupying a
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single elevator shaft located along the north wall of the building. For the sake
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of clarity, the Warren Commission designated one of them as the West elevator and
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the other as the East. Jarman and Norman took the West elevator a moment
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or two after they arrived on the fifth floor. They were joined by a
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third man named Bonnie Ray Williams. His first job after graduating from high school
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in nineteen sixty two was washing dishes at the Marriott Hotel in Dallas. Six
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months later, he was working nights in the baggage department of the Union Terminal
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railroad station. But having a preference for daytime work. He had applied at
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the Texas School Book Depository and became an employee there incept Member of nineteen sixty
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three. Around the latter part of October, Williams was assigned to a crew
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that was working on a floor reinforcement project on the upper floors. New plywood
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was cut and nailed down on top of the narrow planks of the old floor.
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On the morning of the twenty second in November, the floor crew planned
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to watch the motorcade from the sixth floor. When lunch time came, the
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whole crew went down to the first floor to get their lunches, but only
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one of them, Williams, came back up. The rest of the crew
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neglected to tell him that they had decided to go outside to see the President.
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Williams found himself unexpectedly alone, for he neither saw nor heard anyone else
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on this floor. If there was a gumm And lurking in the shadows,
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Williams was not aware of him. Apparently, he was also unaware of the
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purpose of the stack of boxes forming a semicircle around the southeast corner window.
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This inclosure was soon to become known as the infamous sniper's nest. Only twenty
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feet from this circumvallation of textbooks cartons was a window where Williams looked out as
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he quietly ate his lunch. Hearing the sound of voices and footsteps emanating from
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the floor below, he left the remains of his lunch a lunch sacked two
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chicken bones and an empty bottle of doctor pepper on one of the box decks
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forming the enclosure, and went down by the east elevator to the fifth floor,
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where he met Jarman and Norman, and together the three men waited for
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the approach of the motorcade, each one at a different window. On every
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floor, there were seven pairs of windows facing Elm Street. According to their
20:52
testimonies, Williams and Norman each took a window in the pair directly underneath the
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sniper's nest, and the next pair of windows to their right was Jarman.
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They had to crouch or kneel down in order to see through the open windows
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because they were built only one foot off the floor. At twelve to twenty
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nine, the President's limousine appeared to their immediate front as it turned right from
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Main Street onto Houston. They watched it as it passed under their window and
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disappeared behind the foliage of a large tree. It was precisely at this moment
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that they heard the first shot. Two more shots were fired as the limousine
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emerged from behind the tree. Norman cried out that the shots must be coming
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from overhead, for he could hear the shelves of a bolt action rifle hitting
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the floor. Jarman came over to their side and said, man, somebody
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is shooting it the president. Almost immediately after these remarks were made, all
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three began to run towards the far west window on the opposite side of the
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floor. As told by Williams, we all decided we would run down to
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the west side of the building. We saw the policemen and people running,
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scared running. There were some tracks on the west side of the building,
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railroad tracks. They were running towards that way, and we thought maybe,
22:15
huh, well, you know, to ourselves, we know the shots practically
22:18
came from over our head. But since everybody was running, you know,
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to the west side of the building towards the railroad tracks, we assumed maybe
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somebody was down there. And though we all ran that way, the way
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that the people was running and were looking out the window. Now, what
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these men were trying to see was the futile search for assassins by police and
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spectators behind the grassy knoll. The quest for a better view resulted in bringing
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Jarman, Norman and Williams to a location which has some very interesting implications.
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In the back corner of the building, at a distance of about thirty yards
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from where they were standing, was a stairway, And if Oswald had been
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on the sixth floor, was it possible for these three men to get an
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unimpeded glimpse of him as he was running down the stairs. If they did
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see him, then the case against Oswald would be proven beyond a shadow of
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a doubt. However, if that were true, then they had to be
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culpable for not immediately notifying their employer or the police. On the other hand,
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if they saw no one coming down from the stairs, then it would
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have been impossible for Oswald to have been present on the sixth floor during the
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shooting. An FBI report dated November twenty three, nineteen sixty three, indicates
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that the latter possibility is indeed the truth of the matter. Williams was interviewed
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by special agents will Griffin and Bardwell Odom, who recorded the following words.
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William stated that he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would have seen
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anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs, and they did not
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see anyone coming down. An occupant of the sixth floor could either take the
24:07
stairs or one of the two elevators to get down to the lower floors,
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but since both elevators were inaccessible at that time, that left the stairs as
24:17
the only means of egress. The stairs had two entryways, one leading to
24:22
a flight of steps going up and one leading to a flight going down.
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On every floor there was a landing and a second flight of steps which led
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through a passageway which opened out onto the next floor. To continue the ascent
24:34
or descent, one would have to walk around to another entryway, which led
24:38
to another flight of steps. He would have to repeat this procedure over and
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over with every floor until he reached the floor of his destination. If a
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fugitive was trying to come down the stairs, he would have been seen during
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those times when he was passing from one entryway to the next. The fifth
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floor was not subdivided into rooms or all like all the lower floors. It
25:03
was an open storage area filled with boxes of school boats. Anyone on the
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fifth floor could have seen the stairway at almost any given point. Even if
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there was an intervening stack of boxes blocking the line of sight to the stairs,
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it would only take two or three steps in any direction to bring it
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back into view. With at least three people on the fifth floor, the
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potential for detecting it an absconder down the stairs becomes practically unavoidable. Since none
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of the witnesses saw Oswald fleeing down the stairs, the only possible conclusion that
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could be made is that Oswald did not shoot to present it from the sixth
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floor. William's statement to the FBI must have stunned investigators endeavoring to pin the
25:45
assassination on Oswald, Yet their situation was not altogether helpless. One way or
25:51
another, they had to find a way out of their dilemma. They began
25:55
a series of interrogations which thoroughly examined the fifth floor witnesses. They also made
26:00
a survey of the fifth floor, where they hoped to find more clues leading
26:03
to a solution. Their inspection of the premises was not unfruitful, for it
26:10
yielded a discovery which must have sent a thrill of joy into the hearts of
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those whose minds were single tracked on Oswald's guilt. Not far from the stairs
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were from wooden crates decked on their sides in such a way that they formed
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a makeshift storage shelf. It stood over six feet high and extended fifteen feet
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from the west wall, just far enough that it concealed the stairs from the
26:37
southwest corner. According to Williams and Roy Trully, the superintendent in charge of
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the book depository, the shelf had existed at this location long before the assassination.
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Photographs were made of it, and the examination of these pictures reveals that
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it is true that the shelf prevented the three men from seeing Oswald. Law
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enforcement of was also learned from Williams that the two FBI agents erroneously recorded a
27:03
statement that he never made. Williams declared that it was not true that they
27:10
were in a position to see the stairs, for the story's shelf completely obstructed
27:17
review. An elephant could walked by there and you could not see him.
27:22
Williams would later tell the Warren Commission that shelf however, was only workable from
27:30
the standpoint of the west side of the building, and only within a time
27:33
span of just a minute and a half. That was their maximum available time
27:37
to go from the southwest corner window all the way over to the west wall.
27:42
If they lingered too long, they would have had an unambiguous line of
27:47
sight to the stairs at a time when Oswald had had to use them.
27:53
According to the Warren Commission calculations, Oswald had only ninety seconds or less to
27:59
hide his rifle and descend from the sixth floor down to the second floor lunch
28:03
room, where he was seen by two witnesses. The maximum time can be
28:08
reduced even further if we consider that it would have taken him about thirty seconds
28:12
to make his way down the stairs. This can be broken down to his
28:15
speedy seven and a half seconds per floor. Oswald had to be on the
28:19
fifth floor landing no later than sixty seconds after his last shot. Consequently,
28:26
Jarman, Norman and Williams also had a sixty second time limit. If they
28:30
took longer than a minute and moving over to the west wall, then they
28:33
would have failed to reach the only place on the floor where they could have
28:37
missed seeing Oswald. If Oswald was using the time to run across the sixth
28:41
floor and hide his rifle near the northwest corner, what were the three men
28:48
on the fifth floor doing. He's seen their accounts together, we find that
28:52
this single minute of time is densely packed with activity. To recap what they
28:56
were doing, we have Norman's declaration he just heard rifle shells landing on the
29:02
floor above them, and Jarman's assertion that someone was shooting at the president.
29:07
Then all three were distracted by the large number of people rushing the grassy knoll
29:14
and telling them to make the headlong dash to the west end window. It
29:18
is conceivable that all this could happen in a brief period of time, Yet
29:22
a description of their actions would not be complete until one more detail is added.
29:26
It was not included in the Warren Report, but it was mentioned several
29:30
times during the hearings by various witnesses. One of these witnesses, Robert Bob
29:37
Jackson, a photographer riding with other newsmen in an open top press bar,
29:41
saw two men in a window on the fifth floor after the last shot.
29:47
I guess all of us were just looking around all around, and I just
29:52
looked straight up ahead of me, which could have been looking at school book
29:56
depository, and I noticed two men in a window streaming to seed directly above
30:00
them, and my eyes followed them right up to the window above them,
30:03
and I saw a rifle. Jackson's attention was caught by the sight of two
30:10
men leaning out the window with their faces turned upwards towards the floor where the
30:15
shots supposedly came from. Such irrepressible curiosity was so conspicuous that other observers on
30:22
the ground testified as seeing them. The two men turned out to be Williams
30:27
and Norman, who readily acknowledged to the FBI in the days following the assassination
30:33
that they were indeed trying to see the sixth floor window, but that was
30:37
the last time they said anything about it. Four months later, during the
30:41
hearings, Norman was asked about this visual searching for a gunman, and he
30:47
denied he ever did it. Disaffirmation cannot be taken too seriously, for Jackson's
30:52
observation was corroborated by three other witnesses. Seated in front of Jackson was an
31:00
other news photographer named Tom Dillard. He was not quick enough to see the
31:03
rifle that Jackson saw, but he did proceed to take two pictures of the
31:07
window Jackson was pointing at. One if Dillard's pictures shows a substantial portion of
31:14
the east side of the building, and the second picture is a closer view
31:18
of the eastern corner windows of both the fifth and sixth floors. The faces
31:22
of William and Norman are clearly seen in the fifth floor window. This picture
31:26
must have been taken immediately after the two men had discontinued their attempt to see
31:32
who was doing the shooting, for they were no longer looking up. Dillard's
31:37
camera caught him at a unique instant of time, after their upward glance to
31:41
the sixth floor, but before their pell mell rush to the west corner.
31:48
Yet the more one examines the picture, the more questionable it looks. Is
31:52
this really an image of two men on the verge of springing up from a
31:56
kneeling or squatting position and running off down the aisle. They do not appear
32:00
to be interested in the riveting scenes below them, but rather they seem to
32:05
be gazing pensively towards the horizon, as if they are looking at nothing in
32:08
particular. Their facial expressions do not give a hint that they have just seen
32:14
an appalling murder. Instead, they have the appearance of two men waiting for
32:17
something to happen. On March twentieth, nineteen sixty four, photographer went up
32:22
to the fifth floor with Jarman and Norman and Williams in order to take pictures
32:27
of them in the positions they had assumed when they were waiting for the motorcade.
32:31
The pictures are printed in volume seventeen they just two o two and two
32:36
oh three of the Warren Commission Hearings and Exhibbits. A comparison of these interior
32:40
views of Norman and Williams shows that they are in poses strikingly similar to the
32:45
postures they were in when the Dillard picture was taken. In fact, Dillard
32:51
photo seems to be more in keeping with a waiting for the motorcade type of
32:55
picture, rather than as a portrait of two men who have just heard a
33:00
firing only eight feet above their heads. It is entirely possible that so called
33:05
Dillard photos were not taken by Dillard on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three,
33:12
or by someone else on March to twentieth nineteen sixty four m that's an
33:17
interesting assumption. Doubts about the Dillard photos only deepened when an attempt is made
33:23
to fit them into the context of the testimonies of the witnesses on the ground.
33:29
After James Auctions took his historic pictures of the presidential limousine under fire,
33:34
he saw two men leaning out of a pair of windows, not the one
33:37
directly below the sniper's nest window, but the pair immediately to the west of
33:43
it. For at Serels, a Secret Service agent riding in a car proceeding
33:47
the limousine, saw two men not in the window below the sniper window,
33:52
but in the area, in an area to the west of it. Sirels
33:58
returned to Deily Plasma and talk with a man named Howard Brennan, who saw
34:01
the two men after the shooting in the same area that Sorrel saw the men.
34:07
Brennan repeated this observation to the Warren Commission and clearly marked on a photo
34:10
of the book depository a pair of windows below and to the west of the
34:15
sniper window. When Brennan was challenged with the evidence of the Dillard pictures,
34:21
he became confused and admitted that he may have made a mistake. The only
34:24
witness who positively stated that the men were in the corner window was Robert Bob
34:30
Jackson. However, it is possible that the excitement of senior rifle in the
34:36
sixth floor window may have led to an incorrect reception of which windows the two
34:39
men were in. Nevertheless, Jackson's doubtful statement prevailed over the versions given by
34:46
other street level witnesses because of the testimonies of Jarman, Norman, and Williams
34:52
gave Jackson's version solid corroboration. The three men appeared before the Warren Commission in
34:58
March twenty four, nine four to put on record their experiences of the assassination.
35:05
In addition to giving their stories, they were also called upon to correct
35:08
a lot of errors made by agents of the FBI, especially Williams. He
35:15
did not tell them, for example, that he spent only three minutes on
35:17
the sixth floor. It was more like ten or fifteen minutes. Neither did
35:22
he say that he took the stairs down from the sixth floor to the fifth.
35:27
He really took an elevator. Although the FBI managed to accurately report that
35:31
he observed a policeman coming up the stairs. Williams did not tell them that
35:37
the policeman searched the whole floor. He simply walked from the stairs to the
35:40
elevator without stopping. He then took the elevator to an upper floor. And
35:45
finally, Williams emphatically denied that he told anyone that it was not possible for
35:52
someone like Oswald to come down the stairs without being seen. With these and
35:58
other difficulties in the process of being cleared up, the Warren Commission was well
36:01
on its way to wrapping up its case against Oswald. Yet there was one
36:07
question that they could not answer him. In the end, they simply bypassed
36:10
it entirely. The concerned a fourth witness on the fifth floor, Jack Doherty,
36:17
And I think I thought him Charles was forn But yes, it's Jack
36:21
Doherty. Sorry, was he in a position to see Oswald as he was
36:25
coming down the stairs. Doherty was a thirty nine year old shipping clerk who
36:30
worked at the book depository for over eleven years. He was a loyal,
36:37
conscientious, hard working employee who enjoyed his work. He was never married,
36:42
and he lived at home with his parents. Although he was described by his
36:45
employer as he quote emotionally immature, having a childlike disposition. His intelligence was
36:53
in no way impaired. When the presidential motorcade was during the city of Dallas,
37:00
Doherty was not waiting for it. He had gone back to his work
37:02
after his lunch break. While he was on the fifth floor and moving some
37:07
stock, he heard a single shot, not three. More significant than the
37:13
number of shots that he heard was the place where he was standing, ten
37:16
feet west of the West elevator. The diagram on page twenty four shows where
37:22
Doherty and the three men were one minute after the shots were fired. The
37:29
spot where Doherty was located ten feet west of the west elevator would place him
37:32
only five feet from the staircase. A fugitive coming down from the sixth floor
37:37
would have had it passed almost within an arm's reach of Doherty. If someone
37:43
had been using the stairs, then apparently he had plounced by unnoticed, for
37:47
Doherty made no mention of him. But this is not the only problem connected
37:53
with Doherty's close proximity to the stairs and elevators. About two minutes after the
37:59
shooting, someone brought the west elevator down from the fifth floor to the first
38:05
who was this person. In order to understand the crucial importance of the West
38:09
elevator problem, it is necessary to examine the testimonies of two witnesses. You
38:15
saw it from the first floor. One of them was Marian Baker, a
38:19
motorcycle patrolman who was charged with the duty of escorting the presidential motorcade. When
38:24
the shots were fired, Baker thought that a sniper was on the roof of
38:30
the book depository, and after parking his motorcycle, he raced up the front
38:35
steps and into the lobby, where he called out to the people inside that
38:37
he wanted immediate access to an elevator. Roy Truly volunteered to show him the
38:43
way. When they came to the elevators, they tried to bring one down,
38:46
but a temporary power outage in the building prevented the elevators from operating.
38:52
They looked up the elevator well and saw both elevators stuck on the fifth floor,
38:59
so they just to take the stairs. They had gone up one floor
39:04
when they found a Lee Harvey Oswald lurking in a lunch room. Baker thought
39:07
he looked suspicious, but Truly reassured him that he was merely a company employee.
39:14
They continued their climb up the stairs. When they reached the fifth floor,
39:16
they decided to use an elevator to carry them the rest of the way
39:21
up. The elevators were operating again because the electrical power to the building had
39:25
been restored sometime during that half minute. When they were between the second and
39:31
fifth floors, they did not take the West elevator, which would have been
39:36
the one closest to them as they were coming off the stairs. Instead,
39:39
they had to take the East elevator. Someone had already used the West elevator
39:45
to go down from the fifth floor. We know that Oswald cannot have used
39:52
it, for there was not enough time for him to ride the elevator from
39:53
the fifth floor down to the second in the same time that it took Truly
39:58
and Baker to go up from the first to the second. Jarman, Norman
40:01
and Williams did not use it, for they took stairs down. Furthermore,
40:07
Williams saw Baker as he was walking from the stairs to the elevator. This
40:12
observation could only have taken place after someone had used the west elevator, and
40:16
that leaves only Jack Doherty and the WARRNT Commission concluded that he was probably the
40:22
one. Dorty's testimony confirmed this conclusion, for he himself said that after hearing
40:28
a shot, which he described as a loud noise, he immediately took the
40:31
elevator down to the first floor, where he ran into Eddie Piper and asked
40:37
him as the President been shot. Piper's reply was in the affirmative. Putting
40:43
together the data which the Warrant Commission has given us, we have the following
40:45
sequence of events. Twelve thirty Dohorty hears a shot. He has ten feet
40:52
west of the west elevator. Twelve thirty one. Owald comes down the stairs,
40:58
passing within fifteen feet west of the west elevator. Twelve thirty two.
41:05
Truliam Baker encounter Oswald on the second floor twelve thirty two. As well,
41:09
Doherty used the west elevator to go down to the first floor. Twelve thirty
41:15
three, Juliam Baker arrived on the fifth floor and get in the east elevator
41:21
to go up to the seventh floor. The rapidity with which these occurrences were
41:25
taking place give Doherty no time for random movements, which would put him beyond
41:30
the reach of a clear view of Oswald fleeing down the stairs. No attempt
41:36
was made by the Warning Commission to explain how Doherty could have miss seen him.
41:39
Yet Oswald was not the only one Doherty would miss seen, for he
41:45
also seemed to be completely unaware of the presence of Jarman, Norman and Williams,
41:50
also on the same floor. From where he was standing, he should
41:54
have been able to look past the storage shells near the stairs and see his
41:59
fellow workers at the far west window. When Doherty was asked if he saw
42:05
anyone else on the fifth floor, his reply was an emphatic no, sir,
42:08
I didn't see nobody. There wasn't nobody on the fifth floor at all.
42:13
It was just myself. Despite this unequivocal declaration, Doherty should have seen
42:20
the three other men on the fifth floor. At least he should have heard
42:24
them, especially as they were moving to the west side. Three men running
42:29
on a wooden floor would have made a terrific clatter if Williams himself readily acknowledged,
42:35
But Doughty was not the only one who seemed to be insensate to his
42:39
surroundings. If the men at the west corner window miss seeing Oswald, because
42:45
the storage shelf was blocking the view. At the very least, they should
42:47
have been able to see Doherty, who was between the storage shelf and the
42:51
elevator. Yet he was seen by none of them. The impercipance of these
42:57
four witnesses beyond the realm of possibility, and it is at this point that
43:01
the fractured edifice of the Warring report really breaks down, like a compass rotating
43:07
wildly in a polar region. Our sense of direction on the fifth floor is
43:12
radically impaired by some ominous force. Testimonies which should have been clearly understandable,
43:17
become bewildering enigmas. Regain our bearings, we need to go outside the fifth
43:23
floor and see it from the point of view of spectators on the ground on
43:30
Houston Street waiting to see the president were two clerks, Ronald Fisher and Robert
43:34
Edwards. According to their Affi Davids, they saw a suspicious looking man from
43:38
the fifth floor about a minute before the appearance of the motorcade. The next
43:44
witness to see this man with Carolyn Walter, and she noticed that he was
43:47
armed with a rifle. Standing next to him was another man in a brown
43:52
suit coat. Because investigators have concentrated their efforts on the sixth floor as a
43:58
scene of the crime. It had assume that Edwards, Fisher and Walter had
44:01
miscounted the floors of the building, incorrectly designating the sixth floor as the fifth
44:07
floor. While it is true that these witnesses caught only brief glimpses of the
44:12
suspicious men, hampering their ability to recall from memory what they had seen,
44:16
experienced policemen, who had time to correct initial fast impressions, were also making
44:23
the same error Throughout the afternoon. At twelve thirty six, a police sergeant
44:28
radio headquarters that he had a witness who said shots came from the fifth floor.
44:34
At twelve forty six, a dispatcher stated on the radio, but according
44:37
to the information thus far received, the shots came from either the fifth or
44:42
fourth floor. At one twelve, an inspector of the police reported that empty
44:45
shells were found on the fifth floor, as well as evidence indicating that a
44:51
man had been there for some time. A number of people came to the
44:55
same inspector to tell him that they saw a rifle part of a rifle objecting
45:00
from a window which the inspector thought was on the fifth floor. Newspaper reports
45:07
indicated that the rifle was a mouser. Also a reporter was the discovery of
45:10
the remains of a chicken lunch left by the assassin on the fifth floor.
45:16
Reading the police radio transcripts alone, it would appear that the police were focusing
45:22
their searches on the fifth floor, but a reading of the testimonies and police
45:25
officers demonstrates that they were finding evidence on the sixth floor. Police authorities at
45:35
their command post outside the building, we're directing their men to the fifth floor.
45:37
How did the police inside the building manage to switch gears and begin an
45:43
all out search on the sixth floor. We have no clear answer to that
45:47
question. When Deputy Luke Mooney was asked if he had any reason to go
45:52
to the sixth floor, his reply was no, sir, that is what
45:55
I say. I don't know why I just stopped on particular floor. When
46:01
Deputy Eugene Boone was asked if someone ordered him to go to the sixth floor,
46:05
his reply was equally vague. Well, that is just where everybody was
46:09
going. By the time Captain will Fritz arrived at round one, all investigative
46:15
probes were channeled to the sixth floor, but the fifth floor reporter senior rifle
46:21
and his sixth floor window was printed in the same news story that also reported
46:27
that evidence of an assassin was found on the fifth floor. The accumulation of
46:31
the above facts seems to indicate that Walter, Edwards, and Fisher were not
46:37
incorrect in their observation of a gum and on the fifth floor for what had
46:42
so what amountitude only brief glimpses. Their description of him was remarkably detailed.
46:47
He was wearing a white shirt and had blonde or light brown hair. Carolyn
46:52
Walter said that he was partially leaning out, just slightly, and he had
46:55
his forearms on the window. And it was not a long rifle. It
47:00
was a short gun, not a pistol. I had never seen one like
47:05
it. She also said that the rifle had a short barrel and looked more
47:09
like a machine gun. He did not have a telescopic site or a leather
47:14
sling. Standing next to the man holding the gun was another man in a
47:19
brown suit coat. His head was not visible because it was above the open
47:23
portion of the window. The movements of the brown suit coat man after the
47:28
assassination are carefully analyzed by Josiah Thompson in his book Six Seconds in Dallas.
47:35
After the water reciting, he was seen again in a few minutes after the
47:38
shooting by James Walrell, who saw him running out of the back door of
47:43
the depository heading south on Houston. He was next seen by Richard Randolph Carr,
47:50
a steel worker at the corner of Houston Commerce. He had previously observed
47:53
this man around noon and a window on the seventh floor. The second time
47:59
Car saw the man was after twelve thirty, walking very fast, proceeding south
48:02
on Houston and then turning left on Commerce. In addition to his brown suit
48:08
coat, we also learned from Car that he was wearing a hat and he
48:12
had on horn rimmed glasses, and he stepped into a sixty one and sixty
48:16
two grade Nash Rambler station wagon worked along the street. The driver was described
48:22
as a young Negro. The brown suit coat man was last seen as a
48:29
passenger of this car going north on Record Street. The Nash Rambler and the
48:35
driver our next scene at twelve forty five by Marvin Robinson, who saw no
48:39
passenger with him. The vehicle stopped on Elm Street and a white male came
48:45
down the grassy incline and entered the station wagon. The car sped away towards
48:50
the Oak Cliff section of Dallas and a deputy name Roger Craig also saw this
48:53
incident and reported to his superior as what he saw. Later that afternoon he
48:59
hadent a five lee Harvey Oswald, who was then in custody at City Hall,
49:04
as the man who got in the nash rambler driven by the dark skinned
49:07
man, the brown suitcoat man and the white shirt man with a gun had
49:13
been on the fifth floor in the far east pair of windows. The two
49:17
black men who were seen by several witnesses staring at the upper levels of the
49:21
building were not in far east windows, but in the next pair over.
49:28
This, of course, puts them within speaking distance of the sniper team.
49:32
Possibly their upper glance to the sixth floor was part of a plan to deflect
49:37
suspicion away from the fifth floor. The man on the sixth floor might have
49:42
been flourishing a decoy gun for the benefit of the spectators on the ground.
49:47
Only one shot was heard from the fifth floor, which was the shot that
49:52
Doherty heard. Other shots were coming from other snipers posted around daily plasant.
49:58
The fifth floor gunman was probably an employee of the book Depository who could afford
50:01
to stay in the area and could easily blend in with other employees who were
50:07
willing to confirm his alibi. The brown suit coat man was a stranger to
50:12
the people of the book Depository, and therefore it was imperative that he leave
50:16
the building as quickly as possible. The elevator was the only way he could
50:23
have escaped, for if he came down via the stairs, he would have
50:27
collided with Julian Baker as they were coming up. It was the man in
50:30
the brown suit coat who took the west elevator at twelve thirty two. A
50:36
cluster of boxes piled on the elevators could have provided concealment for him and someone,
50:42
perhaps Doherty, could have served as his th court of the building.
50:46
Where else. Sighting of him coming out the back door around twelve thirty three
50:51
demonstrates the fact that the culprit was not wasting his time. The only way
50:55
he could have departed from the building was the same way that he effected an
51:00
entrance. Through the aid of trustworthy collaborators who were employed in the book Depository.
51:07
He could not do it alone, for the risk of detection would be
51:09
too great. Someone had to as court him in and out, making sure
51:14
the access routes were clear of ordinary employees who might suspect something. Getting into
51:20
the building would have been easy for most of the employees were out front waiting
51:22
for the motorcade. Getting out was an entirely different matter and involves from tricky
51:28
maneuvering in order to slip by people who had been alerted to the emergency situation.
51:35
Near the elevator on the first floor were two men, Williams. Shelley
51:38
and Billy Lovelady. If these two employees had taken this position prior to twelve
51:44
thirty two, they could have seen the brown suit coat man as he was
51:46
running out the back door, and therefore critical importance to establish when Shelley and
51:52
love Lady had arrived at this location. According to their testimonies, they were
51:57
standing on the front steps of the book deposit tory when the motorcade came by.
52:01
Hearing shots which sounded like they came from the area of the grassy knoll,
52:07
love Lady and Shelley ran to the divider that split Elm into two streets.
52:12
They saw Truly and Baker. Going into the building, they saw police
52:15
officers running towards the tracks where sniper was thought to be located. The two
52:21
men decided to follow the police, walking over to the parking lot that had
52:25
joined the railroad yard. After watching policemen searched the cars in the parking area,
52:30
they went back to the book depository, and once inside they received an
52:35
assignment from Truly to guard the elevators and the fairway, be barring anyone from
52:40
using them. By the time they reached the elevators, the brown suitcoat man
52:45
would certainly have been out of the building. However, their testimonies are not
52:50
consistent with the affidavis they submitted on the day of the assassination, as Sylvia
52:55
Marr and Yours Truly Big bab Bob has pointed out on pre via shows.
53:01
There After, Davids said nothing about their circuitous routes around the west side of
53:07
the building. It merely said that they merely said that after they saw the
53:12
shooting, they went back into the building. Their testimonies are also not consistent
53:16
with other eyewitness accounts. Victoria Adams, who was coming down the stairs with
53:21
another employee, Sandrews Styles, remembered seeing them near the elevator About a minute
53:27
after the shooting. She told Shelley and love Lady that she believed that the
53:30
president had been shot. They made no reply. Soon after Adams and Styles
53:36
ran out the back door, Truly and Baker came to the elevators. Although
53:40
Baker did not know their names, he did remember seeing two white men sitting
53:45
nearby. If Truly had given love Lady and Shelley their responsibility of guarding the
53:51
elevators, this was the only time he could have done it. The next
53:55
time Truly was down on the first floor. The whole book to Pastry was
54:00
an a turbulent flux warming with law enforcement personnel and members of the news media.
54:07
It would have been essentially pointless to have guards near the elevators during this
54:10
time. It is clear that Shelley and love Lady were given their orders to
54:14
watch the stairs and elevators at a time no later than twelve twelve thirty two.
54:21
With Trulian Baker proceeding up the stairs, the brown suitcoat man was coming
54:24
down via the elevator. When he stepped off the elevator and ran out the
54:29
back door. He must have passed Shelley and love Lady, Yet no mention
54:32
of the fleeing man was ever made by the two elevator guards. At twelve
54:37
thirty one, Trulian Baker were compelled to use the stairs because of a power
54:42
outage, but at twelve thirty two, the power somehow came back on,
54:47
allowing the man and Brown to get away. If the power failure lasted a
54:55
minute or two longer, the conspirator might have been captured by Officer Baker.
55:00
The precise timing of this resurgence of electricity suggests that it was being deliberately controlled
55:06
by someone endeavoring to help this man get out of the building. This would
55:10
require some sort of remote communication device, such as a walkie talkie to coordinate
55:15
this complex escape operation. When Trulian Baker reached the fifth floor, the restoration
55:22
of the electrical power also allowed them to use an elevator, which they took
55:25
to the very top floor, the seventh floor. From there, they claimed
55:31
that they climbed a flight of stairs up to the roof. Baker made a
55:36
sweeping search of the rooftop looking for clues indicating that a gunman had been there.
55:40
He saw that the ledge on all sides of the roof was five feet
55:45
high, too high for someone using a rifle. He also climbed the ladder
55:51
on the Hurtz rent a car sign, but he soon realized that the sign
55:54
had no suitable perch for a gunman. Truly, who was waiting patiently,
56:00
to Baker, I think we're wasting our time here. I don't believe these
56:02
shots came from this building. Baker agreed, and they both went back into
56:07
the elevator and returned to the ground floor. Since Baker's original responsibility was to
56:13
stay with the motorcade, he immediately left the building, got back on his
56:16
motorcycle, and rode off in the direction of the hospital. As for Truly,
56:21
he turned his attention to the surging multitudes of people who were transforming the
56:24
book depository into what he described as a regular madhouse. Yet the police were
56:30
not slow to restore order. They quickly sealed off the building, allowing no
56:36
one to leave or enter without due authorization. They began a systematic floor floor
56:42
search, questioning employees as they went and recording their statements in little notebooks.
56:46
As they approached the upper floors, they had to proceed with caution, for
56:51
they were not sure whether or not an armed suspect was still in the building.
56:54
They thought that he might be holed up on the top floor, and
56:59
sometimes around twelve forty or twelve forty five, the book depository was again plunged
57:05
into the darkness by a second power shut off. What started as an orderly
57:10
police investigation turned into mass confusion. All attempts to find an upper floor suspect
57:15
were soon halted because it was too dark to see. Deputies were sent across
57:21
the street to the Sheriff's office in order to bring as many floodlights as they
57:24
could carry. Deputy Luke Mooney, who was on the first floor, vividly
57:29
described how the power outage affected him. He says, I noticed there was
57:35
a big elevator there, the west elevator, so I jumped on it,
57:38
and at about that time two women were running and said we want to go
57:43
to the second floor. I said, all right, get on, we're
57:45
going. I got hold of the controls and it worked. We started up
57:51
and got to the second I was going to let them off and go on
57:54
up, and when we got there, the power undoubtedly cut off because we
57:59
had no more power on the elevator. So I looked around their office there
58:02
just a fort second or two, and then I went up the stairs myself.
58:09
Shortly after Mooney left, two more officers got on the elevator, followed
58:14
by Victoria Adams. She wanted to go back to her office on the fourth
58:17
floor. Three of them soon realized that the elevator was not going anywhere.
58:22
The power had been cut off, Adams told the warrant committed some months later.
58:28
They stepped off the elevator and went up the stairs to their respective destinations.
58:32
The power outage lasted about five or ten minutes, and speculating what purpose
58:37
it could have served, it is possible that there really was a suspect on
58:43
the roof or the top floor, and he might have overcome the five foot
58:45
ledge problem by the simple expedient of bringing up a wooden box upon which he
58:52
could stand. Literally after one o'clock a rifle was found by a policeman searching
58:59
the roof. Baker must have somehow overlooked a hiding place when he was exploring
59:05
that area. Unlike Oswald's man liquor carcando, the rooftop rifle lacked a sling
59:10
and telescopic site. It also had a barrel approximately three inches longer. The
59:16
suspect had been on the seventh floor, and the power shut off and the
59:20
resultant breakdown of police efforts defined him, presented an opportunity to make a getaway.
59:28
Just as the first power outage enabled the brown suitcoat man to get out
59:32
of the building, so the second outage helped the rooftop man. Perhaps he
59:38
had phony, FBI or secret service credentials to suspend any suspicion people might have
59:44
had as he was leaving the building. As we come to an understanding of
59:49
what people were doing in the book depository, we find unmistakable evidence that the
59:52
assassination of President Kennedy was not carried out by one man. Correlating the eyewitness
59:59
accounts those who were inside the building with those who were outside reveals that the
1:00:02
testimonies of German Norman Williams and Doherty are replete with inconsistencies, contradictions, and
1:00:10
attractions, and therefore should be considered unreliable. In the examination of just the
1:00:16
street witnesses testimonies alone gives clear evidence that more than one gunment was involved.
1:00:23
Although the fifth floor witnesses might have been privy to an assassination plot, it
1:00:28
is possible that they did not have any malevolent designs against the president. Perhaps
1:00:34
they were unwilling participants in a calamity that might have deeply shocked them, truly
1:00:39
informed the Warrant Commission that quote. They have been rather, as the expression
1:00:44
goes, took up about this thing, especially this tall one, Bonnie Williams.
1:00:51
He is pretty superstitious. I would say the assassination of President Kennedy was
1:00:55
a multi sniper operation which were a highly sophisticated level of organization and coordination.
1:01:05
The plot was skillfully and boldfully and boldly executed by assassins who knew how to
1:01:10
evade even the most vigorous pursuit of law enforcement agencies. The factual existence of
1:01:16
such ruthless killers is one of the more frightening implications to emerge from the assassination
1:01:22
record. And that is the end of the William Weston essay about the fifth
1:01:30
floor shooter. So what do you guys think about that? I honestly don't
1:01:43
know what to think. The fifth floor has always alluded me. I find
1:01:49
it hard to believe that Norman Jarman and Williams didn't see Doherty and Doherty didn't
1:02:00
see them, because you know, after the shots, you would think that
1:02:10
Norman Jarman and Williams would be hollering each other, talking to each other,
1:02:16
moving around, getting to the other window and generally making a commotion that Doherty
1:02:23
would surely have seen. And you would think that they would have heard Doherty
1:02:29
taking the elevator down from the fifth floor to the first floor. I mean,
1:02:32
it's not like these elevators were silent. These are big, large freight
1:02:37
elevators in nineteen sixty three, they were probably creaking and squeaking, and you
1:02:42
know, the motors are running, making a hell of a racket. So
1:02:46
it's all very very convoluted. And I don't know that we cleared up anything
1:02:51
here today at all, but hell, at least we tried, you know,
1:02:58
you know, and I do understand that people not familiar with the building
1:03:00
as they're counting floors or you know, could easily mistake, you know,
1:03:07
the fifth or sixth floor. They could, you know, mistake the fifth
1:03:10
floor for the sixth floor, and so forth and so on. And you
1:03:15
know, if you're inside a building, you're run up with stairwell you're not
1:03:17
familiar with. Unless there's a sign at every floor is saying fifth floor sixth
1:03:24
floor, seventh floor. You're not going to know either what even floor you're
1:03:30
on if you're running up, you know, unless you are counting as you
1:03:32
go up, which you know cops might do. I don't know. It's
1:03:39
certainly a very interesting proposition and definitely lends credence to the supposition that actual assassin,
1:03:51
if he were inside the building, could have gotten outside the building from
1:03:54
the elevator on the fifth floor before any body came in the building and saw
1:04:00
him. So take that for what you will, folks. It's all very
1:04:05
interesting, you know, it's all very interesting. Like I said, if
1:04:12
you'd like to learn more about that, head over to Mary Farrell and search
1:04:15
up William weston fifth floor and it should pop up in one of these third
1:04:20
decade deals over there. So that's it for your boy. Make sure you're
1:04:31
following all the socials at the lone Gum and seven standard time, and also
1:04:38
make sure you are subscribed and getting notified on YouTube. You don't want to
1:04:45
miss the shorts. They give you a little heads up as to what's coming
1:04:48
up on the show, and let's just say big things are coming sooner than
1:04:57
later, so you I want to keep an eye over there, folks.
1:05:01
That's all I'm saying. Just keep one eyeball over there. All right,
1:05:06
this is your boy. I'm out peace. Enjoy the Hick Conspiracy by Shepherd
1:05:12
of Fire. Listen to the words and rock out. Baby yeah wow three
1:05:45
everyone, he be the be the life and tell you the prey been that
1:06:20
you'll try came. Yeah. They the way by waiting all was over,
1:06:44
the trouble up and begone the trouble the thing I do with ang and they
1:06:53
got simple song. Don't be more. Let me tell you lies ay down
1:07:16
you I the din't think that you champ can on way ah wait time wait
1:07:40
TI situation on my rain from me. They bought kind of him. We
1:07:45
caught him here and he fell down and back made of his card. One
1:07:50
was on him head and handy card on on down one n b eye only
1:08:12
the love you the biggest, be that child, team kid yell. We're
1:08:27
moren always aware always so I'll get an as that d