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75: The War for Evil · Dungeonpedia

0:00
SPEAKER_00: You the adventurer.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you.
0:03
SPEAKER_00: Do you desire knowledge of immense worlds and arcane power?
0:07
SPEAKER_00: A codex of untold stories and lore?
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Or perhaps simply easy listening for your daily commute.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: Then feast your eyes, or more accurately, yes, upon Dungeon Pedia.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Shit's about to get nerdy in here.
0:46
SPEAKER_02: Taylor Stanfield.
0:47
SPEAKER_02: And I'm Travis Peasley.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: It's cold outside.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: And it's December.
0:53
SPEAKER_02: It is.
0:54
SPEAKER_04: These are all true statements.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: It really, it really is.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Days of the Year and the Week with Lewin.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: We are in the last month of this horrendous day.
1:07
SPEAKER_04: Let's not focus too much on how horrendous it's been for.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: This year that's felt like 10 years.
1:13
SPEAKER_04: Humanity, uh us, and the religious.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: Did you just say let's not too let's not focus too much on that?
1:18
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, I did.
1:20
SPEAKER_04: I'm sorry.
1:20
SPEAKER_04: Hey, sometimes it'd be that way.
1:24
SPEAKER_04: I got moderate to severe joint pain.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: I've got like mild, I would say probably mild to moderate.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: It depends on where on my body we're talking about.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: I also have mild to moderate joint pain.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, who doesn't?
1:37
SPEAKER_02: Honestly.
1:39
SPEAKER_04: And all of the uh people under the age of, let's say, 24 clicking off of here.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: Hey, I mean, I had joint pain before I was 24.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: Okay, except for the chronic illness.
1:51
SPEAKER_04: I obviously did too.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: Before, I never had any reason to really look forward to December or winter in general because I just do not like the cold.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: Right.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: Don't get me wrong, I still hate the cold.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: Same.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: But the astrophotography.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: Winter does bring in like really great conditions for astrophotography.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: You just have to deal with fucking cold.
2:12
SPEAKER_02: It's good conditions for astrophotography, just not good conditions for astrophotographers.
2:17
SPEAKER_04: Uh Travis spent like$100 on thermalware.
2:21
SPEAKER_04: I did.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: I have like no winter clothes, so I was like, well, we got into this, I guess I'm spending money.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: Hey, you know, sometimes it'd be that way.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: You can encourage Travis to spend more money by telling him to post astrophotography photos on his Twitter.
2:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like we've been bullying him into.
2:38
SPEAKER_04: But anyway.
2:40
SPEAKER_04: The year's almost up, and it's not.
2:43
SPEAKER_02: Wait.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: When did it stop being June?
2:46
SPEAKER_04: Oh, don't even get me started.
2:49
SPEAKER_04: I have been on this topic since April.
2:52
SPEAKER_04: No, actually, working on the Celestials really started this.
2:56
SPEAKER_04: So I've been working on this since January.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: Jesus, you've been working on this topic for almost a year now.
3:03
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
3:03
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
3:03
SPEAKER_04: What's that?
3:04
SPEAKER_04: Celestial and Infernal Beings, you guys, they're complicated.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: What's that like?
3:08
SPEAKER_01: Which is like half of our whole existence as podcasters.
3:13
SPEAKER_04: Not really.
3:14
SPEAKER_04: Like, that's the thing, is I've barely tapped the surface.
3:17
SPEAKER_04: Like, even on the Celestial and Infernal Beings.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: Doesn't that make you feel great?
3:21
SPEAKER_01: No, I mean like you've been working on it for half the time that we are in podcasting.
3:25
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, it's weird.
3:26
SPEAKER_04: Like, I don't like okay.
3:28
SPEAKER_04: Not to get too far into it, this is going to be my last episode in this arc.
3:33
SPEAKER_03: Um year-long arc.
3:36
SPEAKER_04: So it's weird.
3:38
SPEAKER_04: Like, I don't know what I'm going to be doing next.
3:40
SPEAKER_04: But um, Anthony mentioned on Twitter, uh, that's at Tototilla.
3:47
SPEAKER_04: No.
3:47
SPEAKER_04: Nope.
3:48
SPEAKER_04: Tito Totita?
3:50
SPEAKER_04: Tito Totita.
3:51
SPEAKER_04: Tito Totita.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Anthony, we're sorry.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: We still have issues pronouncing your Twitter handle.
3:57
SPEAKER_04: I don't.
3:57
SPEAKER_04: But well, it's a good Twitter handle, and that's the important thing.
4:00
SPEAKER_04: And I can always find it because I know how to spell it.
4:02
SPEAKER_04: Anyways, apparently not.
4:04
SPEAKER_04: I love you.
4:05
SPEAKER_04: Anthony mentioned on Twitter that there are more types of fiendish beings, specifically mentioning the demodance or demodance, depending.
4:12
SPEAKER_02: Taylor cried when you when she got that notification, by the way.
4:16
SPEAKER_04: No, and she said no more.
4:18
SPEAKER_04: I I knew about it.
4:20
SPEAKER_04: He he's right.
4:21
SPEAKER_04: There are actually several more.
4:23
SPEAKER_04: Let me rest.
4:24
SPEAKER_04: And several of them are probably their own episodes.
4:26
SPEAKER_04: Oh, great.
4:27
SPEAKER_04: Because they just have tons of c content, which includes the Demodance, who I actually will be talking about very briefly in this episode.
4:35
SPEAKER_04: I I'll not get ahead of myself, I made a mistake.
4:38
SPEAKER_04: They should have been mentioned in a previous episode, at least a little bit, but I'll get into that later.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: That's that's fine.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it sometimes be that way.
4:46
SPEAKER_04: I decided to look at the past year and how everything fit together.
4:50
SPEAKER_04: So I feel like this episode is going to conclude this year-long journey.
4:55
SPEAKER_04: And all the other types of infernal and celestial beings, maybe their own episode separate from this arc.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: So now it's just be like sprinkled here and there.
5:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like the way everything else is.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: The way everything I do is.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: Same.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: You did dragons for a good while too.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: You you did.
5:14
SPEAKER_04: I mean I mean it's dungeons and dragons.
5:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's like 50% of the content.
5:20
SPEAKER_04: So we haven't really covered very many dungeons.
5:22
SPEAKER_02: Oh shit, yeah.
5:24
SPEAKER_04: Um, but okay, so the reason for this is because specifically the big three infernals I've gone over and several of these celestials as well, are fairly involved in the blood war, which is today's topic.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I was about to say, what's the blood war?
5:38
SPEAKER_02: It's that thing that we've been like mentioning for a year.
5:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for however long.
5:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:45
SPEAKER_04: Um, so real quick, I'm gonna go over some keywords just to make sure we're all back at speed.
5:49
SPEAKER_04: We have a glossary?
5:50
SPEAKER_04: We have somewhat of a glossary.
5:52
SPEAKER_04: Oh, love it.
5:53
SPEAKER_04: So all things born on the lower planes are called fiends, but then DD makes the distinction that only the Betazoo, Demodan, Sanari, you, and Ugaloths are true fiends.
6:04
SPEAKER_04: So I decided to save myself the headache and that anything born in the lower plains is called an infernal opposite celestials, because that makes sense to me.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: Okay, that also makes sense to me.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: I gotcha following.
6:15
SPEAKER_04: So devils are lawful evil and predominantly Beitazoo.
6:18
SPEAKER_04: They're ruled by Asmodeus.
6:20
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
6:21
SPEAKER_04: Demons, which are chaotic evil, used to be mostly Oviurith, but now they're almost entirely Tanari.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: Because they revolted and killed most of the Oberth.
6:30
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: They got tired of their shit.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: And they're run by Democorgon.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: Yes, the Prince of Demons.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: Oh shoot, I'm passing this test, guys.
6:39
SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm I'm winning.
6:40
SPEAKER_04: And also just like primal strength in general and their own whims, but you know.
6:45
SPEAKER_04: Whatever.
6:46
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
6:46
SPEAKER_04: Ugaloths, sometimes called demons, are neutral evil and ruled predominantly by their own social societal mentality, but also kind of technically the general of Gehenna, who they look up as like a leader god sort of thing.
6:59
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
6:59
SPEAKER_04: They're they're just ruled by their own bureaucracy.
7:02
unknown: Pretty much.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: Man, they're weird.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: They're they're the ones that kind of like stick out there.
7:07
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
7:07
SPEAKER_04: So now you all are back up to speed.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: Right.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: Speed.
7:10
SPEAKER_04: Got it.
7:11
SPEAKER_04: So the Blood War.
7:12
SPEAKER_04: The Blood War.
7:13
SPEAKER_04: The Blood War.
7:13
SPEAKER_04: I've made mention of it several times, but let's kind of just get right into it.
7:18
SPEAKER_04: I'm going to be pulling from a lot of sources, the Phoenix Codexes, Planescape campaign setting, and several others.
7:25
SPEAKER_04: Uh the Planescape campaign setting is actually the first time the Blood War was ever mentioned, and it had its own card game for second edition.
7:33
SPEAKER_04: Ooh! Yeah.
7:34
SPEAKER_04: I mentioned that during one of the celestial episodes, but it has been so long.
7:39
SPEAKER_04: Oh.
7:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I I think there are their um Blood Wars cards for like non-Celestial and Infernal related characters.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: I think I I think I mentioned that in the Sardior episode of all things.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: But I didn't, I guess I didn't make the connection.
7:58
SPEAKER_04: Sardior actually live in part of the River Sticks.
8:02
SPEAKER_04: Great.
8:02
SPEAKER_04: Love it.
8:03
SPEAKER_04: Anyway.
8:04
SPEAKER_04: Good for him.
8:04
SPEAKER_04: Good for him.
8:05
SPEAKER_04: Uh so or Sardior, wow.
8:08
SPEAKER_04: I no, wrong word.
8:10
SPEAKER_04: Sahuagan sometimes live in part of the river sticks.
8:15
SPEAKER_04: Another thing that I that Blood Wars came up in.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, that's right.
8:19
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
8:19
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
8:20
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you just said Sardior lives in the River Sticks, and I was like, sure, whatever.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: Whatever.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: He's just he's just chilling there.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: Whatever.
8:26
SPEAKER_04: Um, so my favorite source that I'm pulling from is called Hellbound The Blood War.
8:31
SPEAKER_04: It's a book specifically about the Blood War.
8:33
SPEAKER_04: And it was released for Planescape, and it's amazing.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: It has sounds amazing.
8:38
SPEAKER_04: The great first-person voice that tells you about the history, talking about how some of the information is unreliable and it gives so much snark and personality.
8:48
SPEAKER_04: I highly recommend reading it if you're at all interested in nice any of that, honestly.
8:53
SPEAKER_04: In the Blood War.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: I just especially in the like context of DD.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: I love books written like that.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: I know I've said it so many times.
9:01
SPEAKER_04: Right.
9:02
SPEAKER_04: But we're never gonna stop saying it.
9:04
SPEAKER_04: So I'm sorry.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: It's good.
9:06
SPEAKER_04: Um, so it also has some really nice illustrations and an actual full-blown comic in there, too.
9:13
SPEAKER_04: Fuck yeah.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Well then, yeah.
9:17
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: Jesus.
9:19
SPEAKER_04: So the Blood War is the ancient inboard conflict between demons and devils that has raged since before time.
9:27
SPEAKER_04: Like a really awful violent land before time.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh no.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: God.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: Well land before time was actually.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: We're just gonna pop that imagery in your minds there, and uh you're welcome.
9:39
SPEAKER_02: Like if they if they let carnivorous dinosaurs in the uh They did in the first movie.
9:46
SPEAKER_04: Did they?
9:47
SPEAKER_04: They had carnivorous dinosaurs in the first movie.
9:49
SPEAKER_04: That was like the who the primary bad guy.
9:51
SPEAKER_02: Well, no, no, no.
9:52
SPEAKER_02: In the the Peaceful Valley?
9:54
SPEAKER_04: Oh, is that is that the name of the Oh my gosh.
9:57
SPEAKER_04: I can't remember the name of the valley.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's gonna- Oh, I got nothing.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: Do you know how long it's been?
10:01
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna bother me.
10:03
SPEAKER_04: Oh, it's gonna bother me.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, while she looks that up.
10:06
SPEAKER_04: Anyways, so history's claim that the blood war began in two places at once.
10:12
SPEAKER_04: Intrepid Beitizu explorers seeking what was beyond the nine hills of Bator, traveled through Gehenna, the Grey Ways.
10:19
SPEAKER_04: The Great Valley.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: That's what would happen if they let if they let like carnotaurs and stuff into the Great Valley.
10:25
SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
10:28
SPEAKER_02: No, you're fine.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: Surprise.
10:31
SPEAKER_04: Surprise, fluid yelling.
10:33
SPEAKER_04: Um, these Baetazoo explorers, uh, they were curious to see what was beyond the nine hells of Baetor, and they traveled through Gehenna, the Grey Ways, and Carcery into the abyss.
10:44
SPEAKER_04: There they met the Tanori and immediately fucking hate them.
10:47
SPEAKER_04: Just vile hatred.
10:49
SPEAKER_04: I wonder why.
10:50
SPEAKER_04: Because of opposing ideology.
10:52
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
10:52
SPEAKER_04: I I know you know, but like I had a little note there, so I wanted to Oh yeah.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: Because people who have a different ideology than you should automatically spark hatred within you.
11:03
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: Obviously.
11:04
SPEAKER_04: Um, so they quickly slaughter all that they can before traveling back to Bethor to report their find.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: Hey, we found these dead fuckers.
11:12
SPEAKER_02: Hey, we killed all these people.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: We they like report back and they're like, hey, we found all these weird gross demony things.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: And then Asmodeus or whomever is like, Did you kill them?
11:22
SPEAKER_02: Duh.
11:23
SPEAKER_02: Oh, good, good, good, good, good.
11:24
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
11:25
SPEAKER_04: Just wanted to make sure.
11:26
SPEAKER_04: Obviously, they knew that there were more, so they reported that.
11:30
SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
11:30
SPEAKER_04: Apparently at the same time, Curious Tanari decided to follow the river sticks as it flows from the Abyss through Karstory, the Grave Ways, and Gehenna into Baetor.
11:40
SPEAKER_04: When they got to Baitor, they found a Beitazoo patrol there, and they violently murdered as many as they could.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: Naturally.
11:48
SPEAKER_04: The demons actually fought with each other there on whether to leave at that point.
11:53
SPEAKER_04: Some decided to return to the abyss and come back later, and others insisted they take on the whole of Beetazoo.
12:00
SPEAKER_04: They died, obviously.
12:01
SPEAKER_02: I I thought demons were just chaotic, not stupid.
12:05
SPEAKER_02: Chaotic stupid is not an alignment.
12:08
SPEAKER_02: No, it's my alignment.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh okay.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: So we have two different groups doing the exact same thing.
12:16
SPEAKER_02: At the exact same time.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: At the exact same time.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh, this was at the exact same time?
12:20
SPEAKER_02: It supposedly, yes.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: That's what the history says.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I guess it depends on who you ask, perhaps.
12:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
12:26
SPEAKER_04: Uh, more on that later.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: Ooh.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: Oh my.
12:28
SPEAKER_04: So the story goes that once the devils and the demons knew about each other, they immediately began seeking each other out to destroy the other.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: So they went, okay, so the this these intrepid Beta Zoo explorers, which I gotta say, curiosity is a very unlawful trait of them.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: So they were probably like court-martialed.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: And I took that from the source too.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: It said intrepid.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: So they were probably court-martialed when they got back.
12:52
SPEAKER_02: Probably.
12:52
SPEAKER_02: Just saying.
12:53
SPEAKER_02: But like they went through all these different, like through Gehenna and stuff like that, didn't think the uh Ugaloths were interesting enough to start.
13:01
SPEAKER_02: Actually.
13:03
SPEAKER_04: A quick aside about that story.
13:04
SPEAKER_04: Oh, so no, no, it's fine.
13:07
SPEAKER_04: If you brought it up, it actually mentioned the Ugaloths on both the Betazus and Tanari's trips in kind of a funny way.
13:14
SPEAKER_04: The Betazoo looked down on the Ugaloths as weak and foolish and chose to ignore them entirely and continue on.
13:20
SPEAKER_04: At the same time, in another part of the Great Wastes, the Tanari were torturing and killing every Yugaloth that they came across for the fun of it.
13:28
unknown: Oh no!
13:29
SPEAKER_01: Jesus.
13:30
SPEAKER_02: Remember when we said that that the Yugaloths are considered to be objectively more evil than either of those groups?
13:37
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean, to be fair, if I was like walking, walking past and I saw Yugaloth society just doing its thing, I would be like, eh, and I would just cross the street and keep going.
13:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I would probably just look and be like, yeah, I don't know.
13:53
SPEAKER_04: So the demons and devils just innately want to destroy each other.
13:57
SPEAKER_04: And at first, only small groups of raiding parties went back and forth, and quickly parties turned into battalions and battalions into army, and the battle of law versus chaos began.
14:08
SPEAKER_04: Um, as for the why of the blood war, the inner workings behind it, all of that, it varies a lot from edition to edition and in universe from different histories and stories and species.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because everyone's gonna have a different perspective.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: There's your different takes.
14:24
SPEAKER_04: And they're all hot and spicy.
14:26
SPEAKER_04: So I mentioned some of these actually in the Devils episodes.
14:29
SPEAKER_04: I do all recall in one of these stories about Asmodeus, he and the other arch devils were originally fallen asamon.
14:36
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
14:36
SPEAKER_04: And the blood war began when they were created from the celestial paragons to fight off the demons that had sprung up from chaos itself.
14:44
SPEAKER_04: Yes, I do remember that.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:46
SPEAKER_04: So all that existed in opposition at that time was law and chaos.
14:50
SPEAKER_04: They were tainted by their battles and eventually separated from the Asimon, creating the axis of good and evil and devilkind.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: So the demons weren't even inherently evil at this point.
15:00
SPEAKER_04: It was just chaos and law.
15:01
SPEAKER_02: So it was like both groups were tainted by their conflict.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: And cool.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: And over time became evil.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: Evil.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:10
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
15:10
SPEAKER_04: So um interesting.
15:12
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I kind of like that actually, but demons actually believe that the beginning of all of this to have been when the Queen of Chaos was defeated by the Windukes and her attempt to bring chaos and conquer all planes.
15:24
SPEAKER_04: And that the power vacuum left by her demise simply gave way for devils to begin their tirade against chaos.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that also makes sense.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: And that is also a cool like story.
15:35
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I and I will say, all of there's ways to incorporate like almost all of these together, and you're like as a DM.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: I feel like they can all even kind of coexist because a lot of the time that's kind of what happens with like real world uh wars and like empires falling and stuff, is kind of like you have all this stuff happening at the same time.
15:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:56
SPEAKER_02: And it just makes this perfect storm to lead to conflict or coup or you know, exactly general shenanigans.
16:05
SPEAKER_04: Um, so another story, interestingly enough, is tells about how it tells about how the demons came from pure chaos of the beginning, and then those who tried to control the chaos became devils.
16:18
SPEAKER_04: Their innate struggle was always the blood war.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: Good lord.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I guess trying to control chaos is a pursuit.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: That's for sure.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: Also, can I just say windukes?
16:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: I like it.
16:34
SPEAKER_04: It is cool.
16:35
SPEAKER_04: They've been mentioned a few times.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: The wind dukes.
16:37
SPEAKER_04: And they're they're very interesting.
16:39
SPEAKER_02: I prefer to just say that than trying to figure out how to pronounce the genitive A-A-Q-A.
16:45
SPEAKER_02: Aqua Aqua.
16:47
SPEAKER_04: The Windukes of Aka.
16:49
SPEAKER_04: A Aka?
16:49
SPEAKER_02: The Wind Dukes of Water.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: And here we go again.
16:52
SPEAKER_04: Um they're in the elemental plane of air.
16:56
SPEAKER_04: Anyways, some expand on the idea of this innate struggle and claim that the blood war was always a part of a larger war.
17:03
SPEAKER_04: The never-ending, endless fight of law and chaos, and the only reason that Osamon and the Elodron do not fight with each other is their mutual yearning for good.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I guess.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that could theoretically be the thing that stops them because they do at least have that one mutual thing.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: To preserve.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: I I I my immediate instinct was to recoil from that because I do feel like it.
17:33
SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: I guess I guess murder is evil.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: Murder is evil.
17:39
SPEAKER_02: Bloodshed is like objectively pretty evil, right?
17:44
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
17:45
SPEAKER_04: I mean, like murder is bad, right?
17:47
SPEAKER_04: Like self-defense and self-defense is a whole complete other thing.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: Defending like your home or what have you.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, just running amok and just killing because you don't like the or you feel like it.
17:59
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: Um definitely evil.
18:02
SPEAKER_04: So like all of these are really interesting, but I've talked about some of them, and some of them really also don't have that much information behind them.
18:08
SPEAKER_04: So they're not really good for a lore podcast.
18:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:11
SPEAKER_04: So what I am going to talk about is the Yugaloths version.
18:15
SPEAKER_05: Ooh.
18:15
SPEAKER_04: So this is almost entirely from Hellbound, and the book says that this information came from a Yugaloth text, the Book of Derelict Magics.
18:25
SPEAKER_04: Uh the Yugaloths claim that the Baroneloths were created from the primal forces of evil itself in its eternal struggle over good.
18:34
SPEAKER_04: The Barnoloths then decided the best way to help their patron, the essence of evil, was to create more beings who would seek the perfection that Baroneloths had been given by birth being completely a primal evil.
18:46
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
18:47
SPEAKER_04: They would follow the Baroneloth edicts and structure to exact specifications.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean, I don't think I have ever heard of a story where something like that has ever turned out to work like 100% in favor.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm just saying.
19:04
SPEAKER_02: To be fair, this was probably uh pretty pretty early on time.
19:07
SPEAKER_04: This is like literally in the beginning.
19:09
SPEAKER_04: So stories stories didn't exist yet.
19:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so they did they didn't have stories to evidence why that maybe was not the best idea.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: So And also like they're Ugolos.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: I don't think they gave They're Barnaloths.
19:20
SPEAKER_02: Okay, excuse me, they're not Ugalos yet.
19:22
SPEAKER_02: They probably don't give a shit.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: Also, probably true.
19:25
SPEAKER_02: They're so up there, they're so up their own assholes.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: It was like, well, rip to those, but I'm different.
19:30
SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
19:31
SPEAKER_04: Seriously, this book has like a thing in there about how at a certain point the text goes on and on about the virtues of Ugolos society and how great they are.
19:41
SPEAKER_04: Oh no.
19:42
SPEAKER_04: And does not return to its original topic for 100 pages.
19:46
SPEAKER_04: What the hell?
19:47
SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: Oh legend.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: Legendary text.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: Holy shit.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: And also, how uh hellish was that to Oh no.
19:56
SPEAKER_04: There's a little thing where it says the source text.
20:00
SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
20:00
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
20:01
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I thought you meant they're not.
20:05
SPEAKER_04: The book is written as sort of like an inter like a interpretation and a translation, basically.
20:13
SPEAKER_04: Oh got it.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: I just thought you meant the book and you read every single 100 pages.
20:18
SPEAKER_04: And now I am reverted to Yugoloth.
20:21
SPEAKER_04: Um shit.
20:23
SPEAKER_04: So no.
20:23
SPEAKER_04: Um so the Barnoloths were a very wise people and they debated on how to proceed and what forms their creations should take.
20:32
SPEAKER_04: Oh god.
20:33
SPEAKER_04: Uh one particularly impatient Barnoloth was named Apomps.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: No, never.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: He couldn't be impatient.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: He was perfect.
20:41
SPEAKER_04: He certainly thinks so.
20:42
SPEAKER_04: And he decided to act on his own, expecting praise and accolades.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
20:47
SPEAKER_04: Of course he did.
20:48
SPEAKER_04: Using clay from the lower plains, he crafted his own creations and breathed life into them.
20:52
SPEAKER_04: They were the Dimodans, also known as Garoloths.
20:55
SPEAKER_04: I love things made up.
20:57
SPEAKER_04: I will mostly refer to them as Garoleths.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, because there's a lot of words that start with, yeah, there's a lot of there are a lot of a lot of Ds.
21:06
SPEAKER_04: Um, and this is why I should have talked about them in the Ugaloth episode, but I remember seeing Apomp's name and thinking, eh, I don't have time to talk about one specific Yugaloth.
21:15
SPEAKER_04: And then it's like, well, I should have.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: Also, can I just say I love whenever gods make people out of clay in stories, I just think it's fun.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: But also that's why we have continuation episodes.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
21:28
SPEAKER_04: So the Gareloths were these hideous corpse-like looking beings.
21:32
SPEAKER_04: Aww.
21:34
SPEAKER_04: And yeah, I mean they were impatient and tainted by chaos of Apomps.
21:40
SPEAKER_04: Um, so the Garlath and Apomps himself were both insulted, scorned, and exiled to Carcari for the shame that they brought on the Baroneloths.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: You mean they didn't just like murder him for not conforming to their society?
21:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they probably should have.
21:55
SPEAKER_04: They probably should have, because he swore vengeance on the Baronoths.
21:59
SPEAKER_04: Oh.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: I bet he I bet that won't come back to haunt them later.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: His own clay army.
22:05
SPEAKER_02: Of nasty nasty corpse corpse guys.
22:10
SPEAKER_04: So afterwards the Baronoths created their perfect beings, the Ugaloths.
22:14
SPEAKER_04: But the Ugaloths were not wholly evil.
22:17
SPEAKER_04: They were subject to the meddlesome hands of law and chaos.
22:21
SPEAKER_04: And in their pursuit of perfection, often straight.
22:25
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
22:26
SPEAKER_04: Strayed from the path from the path of Ethan.
22:29
SPEAKER_04: So another version actually says that the Ugaloths were created first, but were flawed in the way that they are, that sometimes law and chaos can kind of take hold of them.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, though sometimes they like make their own choices.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:40
SPEAKER_04: And Apomps created the Garolaths from Ugaloth corpses to improve upon them.
22:45
SPEAKER_04: Which is an interesting take for sure and kind of helps with the whole corpse-like thing.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was gonna say that does help with like the fact that they look like corpses and stuff.
22:54
SPEAKER_04: I really like that version.
22:55
SPEAKER_02: Oh, what does that remind me of?
22:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh necromancing?
22:59
SPEAKER_02: No, no, it no, it reminds me of a real-life serial killer.
23:02
SPEAKER_04: Anyway.
23:03
SPEAKER_04: Uh the outcome of banishment was the same, and the Yugaloths still sought to rid themselves of impurity.
23:08
SPEAKER_02: AKA anything but neutrality.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:12
SPEAKER_04: And that one actually kind of explains something about the Gareloths, which I haven't mentioned yet, but and actually probably don't have it anywhere in my notes.
23:19
SPEAKER_04: Um, the Gareloths refuse to participate in the Blood War, but hate the Ugaloths.
23:26
SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: You know what?
23:28
SPEAKER_02: Sure, good for them.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: I mean, at least they chose to just not get involved.
23:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, choosing to not participate in war is good.
23:36
SPEAKER_04: So and they they just seek out to ruin.
23:39
SPEAKER_04: They it's really interesting because they're like this like perplexing balance between neutral evil and chaotic evil.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: It it it almost reminds me, I know that these were given as the sort of like ascetic, ascetic um example of perfection in the Ugoloth society.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: But the weird kind of hermit um like fringe Ugaloths that you talked about, that literally just lived out on their own and just like spread evil and you know, all that nastiness kind of wherever they went, it almost reminds me of that.
24:15
SPEAKER_02: Like that they just indiscriminately, you know, they don't have an agenda, I guess.
24:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:21
SPEAKER_02: They just kind of indiscriminately ruin, if you will.
24:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:24
SPEAKER_04: Almost reminds me of that.
24:25
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
24:26
SPEAKER_04: In seeking to rid themselves of the back to the Ugoloths, in seeking to rid themselves of this impurity, the first Ultraloth had an idea.
24:35
SPEAKER_02: Those are the Martian Manhunter guys, right?
24:38
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
24:38
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
24:39
SPEAKER_04: Um, so using a magical stone called the Heart of Darkness, the Ultraloth sought to expunge all law and chaos from their race, forcing it upon the lesser creatures that had turned up in the beginning.
24:52
SPEAKER_04: The Ultraloth was hailed as a hero by most other Ugloths and began to remove the impurities, starting, of course, with himself.
25:01
SPEAKER_04: Duh.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, why wouldn't you?
25:03
SPEAKER_04: Um from there, uh they took the Ugloth impurities and channeled them into the larva that squirmed the wastes.
25:11
SPEAKER_04: However, some Ugloths refused to alter their creation and instead fled into the great wastes.
25:18
SPEAKER_04: There's not much mention about them after that.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I mean I suppose.
25:26
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:28
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
25:29
SPEAKER_04: Anyways, the remaining Ugloths became purified of Law and Chaos.
25:33
SPEAKER_04: And for his wonderful brain and great triumph over Law and Chaos, the original Ultraloth was given the rank of General of Gehenna.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: Oh nice.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so there we have the Gehenna.
25:51
SPEAKER_04: He shared his secrets with a few of the Arcana Loths and then disappeared into Gehenna.
25:57
SPEAKER_04: Cool.
25:57
SPEAKER_04: I mean, like, he still reappears sometimes, but like He mostly just chills there now because that's just what So is this the same person?
26:09
SPEAKER_04: Yes, the General of Gehenna is not like a title that That's right, that's right.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just one person.
26:14
SPEAKER_02: Because he he is their weird kind of god.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: Kind of god, kind of leader, you know, sort of thing.
26:22
SPEAKER_02: Okay, got it.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: Not really a god, I guess.
26:24
SPEAKER_04: He just Well, he's the closest thing that the Yugaloths have to do.
26:28
SPEAKER_04: Well right.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: I was just saying he's not really a god in this sense because he didn't create them, he just improved them.
26:36
SPEAKER_04: Them.
26:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
26:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, he is like a god to them.
26:40
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
26:41
SPEAKER_04: Meanwhile, the larva imbued with law crawled and crawled towards a plane more aligned as such and became the first Betorians.
26:48
SPEAKER_04: Ah.
26:49
SPEAKER_04: And also, those imbued with chaos found their way to the abyss and became the Oberiths.
26:56
SPEAKER_04: The Eugoloths, of course, saw use for these beings and allowed them to continue to grow in their new planes.
27:02
SPEAKER_04: And as the devils and demons established themselves, the Barnoloth retreated into the grey wastes.
27:07
SPEAKER_04: Few, very few Baroneloths were seen again.
27:10
SPEAKER_04: They just kinda fucked off like the General Gehenna and just like There's like a bunch of prophecies that like the Barnoloths are gonna come back and just like fuck everything up, but you know.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: Of course, the the Yugaloth version of this of the story of the origin of the Blood, well, not just the Blood War, but Demons and Devils in general.
27:32
SPEAKER_02: Of course, it's like all about them.
27:33
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
27:34
SPEAKER_02: Like they were like, oh yeah, we did all that.
27:36
SPEAKER_04: I mean the Yugoloths all but claim to have created basically everything.
27:41
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
27:41
SPEAKER_04: Except for that good shit.
27:43
SPEAKER_04: Except for that good shit.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: Except for the good shit.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh wait.
27:48
SPEAKER_04: So uh good shit.
27:50
SPEAKER_04: From there, pretty much everything remains the same.
27:52
SPEAKER_04: The Tanari and the Betazu find each other and decide only one can live.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah Yeah, yeah.
27:57
SPEAKER_02: Neither could suffer the other two exists.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: Blood war.
28:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: And of course, again, the only way to handle ideological differences is to murder each other.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: And mass until one uh triumphs over the other.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: Well, talk about that more.
28:13
SPEAKER_04: After a quick outbreak.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: Oh, damn it.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: Are the Baronolots gonna come back?
28:21
SPEAKER_04: Hey everybody, thank you guys so much for listening.
28:23
SPEAKER_04: This is a such an exciting episode for me to do.
28:27
SPEAKER_04: Like, I've made jokes about wanting it to be over, but I honestly I'm just really excited that I finally get to the conclusion of all of this year of hard work.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes, no kidding.
28:37
SPEAKER_02: Your your year made it.
28:38
SPEAKER_02: You did it.
28:39
SPEAKER_02: Your year of hard work is ending in a bloody conflict.
28:42
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28:45
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28:46
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28:47
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29:51
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29:56
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30:00
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30:24
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30:26
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30:29
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30:32
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30:34
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30:39
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30:39
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30:52
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31:05
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31:24
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31:29
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31:34
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31:35
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31:36
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31:37
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31:38
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31:39
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31:42
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31:46
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31:50
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31:56
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31:58
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31:59
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32:01
SPEAKER_01: But uh, with that, let's go ahead and get back because we need to learn more about what's going on with these uh well, everything that exists in the underworld, basically.
32:11
SPEAKER_02: Invernals.
32:12
unknown: Yeah.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: Invernals.
32:13
SPEAKER_02: There was a handy word for that.
32:15
SPEAKER_02: Didn't you read the glossary?
32:16
SPEAKER_01: No.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: God damn it.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: So we've established the Ugaloths are responsible for everything.
32:24
SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah, the Ugaloths say that they're in control of the war.
32:27
SPEAKER_02: Well, they're yeah, exactly.
32:28
SPEAKER_02: Duh.
32:28
SPEAKER_02: I mean they're the masterminds.
32:30
SPEAKER_04: Maybe.
32:31
SPEAKER_04: Um, they sell themselves as mercenaries to both sides with the goals to betray one or the other.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: Wait.
32:39
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
32:41
SPEAKER_04: What?
32:42
SPEAKER_04: So they sell themselves as mercenaries to both sides, and the goal is, of course, to decide that they want to win is going to they're actually going to work really hard.
32:52
SPEAKER_04: Decide that they don't want to win, they're going to be grossly incompetent.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: Wait, so do the Eucalots have a particular side that they or does it change with time, perhaps?
33:06
SPEAKER_02: So Taylor's making a face.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: I am making a face.
33:09
SPEAKER_02: She's doing her her evil mastermind little.
33:12
SPEAKER_02: You know, in this case, they might actually control the war.
33:15
SPEAKER_02: ASMR finger fluttering.
33:17
SPEAKER_04: They really might.
33:18
SPEAKER_04: Um the the Betzazoo and the Tanari really only see the incompetence, and they're completely unwilling to consider that maybe they have an idea of what they the Ugaloths want.
33:29
SPEAKER_02: You know, whenever this you'd think they would just like stop hiring Ugaloths.
33:35
SPEAKER_02: You know, like you'd think that eventually they would see through it and be like, no.
33:39
SPEAKER_04: But sometimes the Ugaloths help them win, but sometimes they help them lose.
33:44
SPEAKER_04: But sometimes they help them win.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if I was a Ugaloth, I'd probably want the side that tortured my race to lose.
33:52
SPEAKER_04: Probably, but just now.
33:53
SPEAKER_04: Remember, the Ugaloths are very much a society first sort of thing.
33:57
SPEAKER_04: So whatever helps them in any given moment, yeah, is what they want.
34:00
SPEAKER_02: They're like ripped to those Ugaloths that died because of the demons, but yeah.
34:04
SPEAKER_04: And the Ugaloths also sell themselves as being like a mercenary race.
34:08
SPEAKER_04: So they the um the Tanari and the Besazoo, and honestly, everyone probably doesn't think of them as like a race with like a societal structure as much as it thinks of them as like they're all out for themselves.
34:22
SPEAKER_04: Got it.
34:23
SPEAKER_04: So one Ugaloth's utter incompetence and betrayal does not mean shit for all the other Yugaloths.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: Got it.
34:32
SPEAKER_02: So they don't Okay.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: Alright.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: That makes that that shed some light on that.
34:36
SPEAKER_04: So, like at the beginning of the war, um power was swinging wildly between demons and devils.
34:42
SPEAKER_04: Armies appeared out of nowhere, ravaging and pillaging, and then they're driven back by very hastily organized reinforcements.
34:51
SPEAKER_04: Um, whole sections of Carcer and Gehenna fall under control of one side or the other every few years, only to return to their original planes when the other fiends that are native to those gain foothold in their own homes.
35:05
SPEAKER_04: Cool.
35:05
SPEAKER_04: Sorry, infernals.
35:07
SPEAKER_04: I don't know why I wrote fiends there.
35:09
SPEAKER_04: I pissed myself off.
35:11
SPEAKER_04: It's just infernals.
35:13
SPEAKER_04: So damn dungeons and dragons.
35:16
SPEAKER_04: As the war continues, the balance of power shifts less dramatically.
35:21
SPEAKER_04: Armies of each side punch their defenses even faster, but then those victories become less frequent as they understand how each other works more and their defenses get better.
35:31
SPEAKER_04: And over time, the blood war has essentially no progress, no change, and no meaning beyond endless conflict.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, they're doing great, guys.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like they're doing so good.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: You're making this completely worth it.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: That's like that's depressing.
35:48
SPEAKER_04: Now, mind you, the this comes from the same source.
35:51
SPEAKER_04: Like, most almost all of this continuing on comes from like the same source of the Eugloths.
35:58
SPEAKER_04: So, any histories where Celestials were immediately involved with good and evil or that sort of thing, or the Asmodius story isn't really how the Ugloths are reporting things.
36:11
SPEAKER_04: So in the Ugloths version, the demons and devils in their pursuit of each other's destruction travel to other plains and spill their conflict across it.
36:20
SPEAKER_04: And then the Celestials, seeing this evil spread, enter the war at this point.
36:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:25
SPEAKER_04: So it's claimed that the host of all the upper plains banded together to defeat them, and for a year, as a massive army, Celestials fought the demons and devils back.
36:34
SPEAKER_04: And then the demons and devils continued to fight each other and the celestials.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: So wait, they were simultaneously working together and warring against each other?
36:46
SPEAKER_04: So it was the Celestials that were fighting just the demons and devils.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: Right.
36:50
SPEAKER_04: But the demons and devils were fighting the celestials and each other.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: So not like, you know, purposefully working together, but still working together to try to defeat the Celestials.
37:01
SPEAKER_04: More like defending themselves.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
37:04
SPEAKER_04: I mean because at a certain point they realized that they were actively shooting themselves, not even in the foot, but in the freaking chest, and decided to put aside their conflict for long enough to fight the Celestials.
37:17
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so there we go.
37:19
SPEAKER_02: That's so funny to me.
37:21
SPEAKER_04: Within weeks, the Celestials fell back to the upper plains.
37:24
SPEAKER_04: And this material, this source claims that there were only around a 3,000 that survived.
37:30
SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
37:31
SPEAKER_02: And all of the upper plains.
37:32
SPEAKER_02: I never thought I'd be fighting a Celestial alongside a demon.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: How about a friend?
37:36
SPEAKER_02: No, fuck you.
37:38
SPEAKER_02: After this is over, I'm gonna murder these.
37:41
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna jump rope with your intestines.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
37:45
SPEAKER_04: So celestials learn to be more cautious and decide to only destroy one time one side at a time and back the other.
37:54
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I hate that.
37:56
SPEAKER_04: Good job, Celestials.
37:57
SPEAKER_04: However, the Asimon wanted to back the Beitazoo because they were both wobble.
38:03
SPEAKER_04: And the Eldrin would be a lot more comfortable with the Tanari.
38:06
SPEAKER_02: Oh god.
38:07
SPEAKER_02: And the fucking Gardinals are just in the middle, like, oh locked into stalemate, the Celestials find themselves in a blood war of their own mind.
38:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh no! And all the middle ones are just like, oh my god, guys, can you just pick a side serious?
38:22
SPEAKER_02: Can we just do something?
38:25
SPEAKER_02: Also, like that's so funny to me because they literally spent how long just like indiscriminately like trying to fight devils and demons.
38:35
SPEAKER_02: But then like a few years or however long later, they're going to come back and try to broker a deal with either one of those sides.
38:43
SPEAKER_02: How dumb do they think they are?
38:45
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean they're they would take it because like how we'll help you defeat your enemies.
38:51
SPEAKER_02: Like like they okay, like they don't know that they that the celestials would immediately turn around and try to.
38:57
SPEAKER_04: They know, and Asmodeus, honestly, probably would be like, yeah, okay, fine, but you know I'm coming for your head the second it's over.
39:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Asmodeus would be like, listen, we both know what's going on here.
39:06
SPEAKER_02: It would turn from one war to another.
39:08
SPEAKER_02: Especially given, well, this doesn't necessarily consider that Asmodeus used to be a celestial, but anyway.
39:14
SPEAKER_04: But I mean, I really like that interpretation a lot.
39:17
SPEAKER_04: So Yeah, same.
39:19
SPEAKER_02: I do too.
39:20
SPEAKER_04: Uh that is probably my favorite of the histories.
39:23
SPEAKER_02: This this probably leads to that situation where I forget her name, but one of the um Zariel?
39:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Zariel.
39:30
SPEAKER_02: Zariel's fall.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, in that situation, in this stalemate kind of when they weren't taking action.
39:35
SPEAKER_04: Yes, actually.
39:36
SPEAKER_04: In in every or almost every iteration of um this story, Zariel is a fallen Osimar.
39:44
SPEAKER_04: Osimon.
39:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because she's frustrated with the celestials not really doing anything about the blood war for that time.
39:50
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
39:50
SPEAKER_02: And then she, well, becomes involved in the blood war, so good for her.
39:54
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
39:55
SPEAKER_04: So uh gods enter the equation, but because there are so many gods of chaos and law, they find themselves again unable to progress the war.
40:04
SPEAKER_04: Seriously, in all the years of the Blood War, neither side has ever fully occupied even the first layer of the world.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh god, why?
40:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh why do you continue this madness?
40:15
SPEAKER_04: There were even evil.
40:18
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I don't know.
40:19
SPEAKER_04: Uh there have even been instances of treachery to try and gain the advantage.
40:22
SPEAKER_04: No shocker.
40:24
SPEAKER_04: Um never would have guessed.
40:26
SPEAKER_04: Some fail miserably.
40:27
SPEAKER_04: Uh there's this infamous uh tonaree thing that was called the uh mask of the pit, in which Tanare infiltrators try to creep through the Betazoo encampment, and the infiltrators disguise themselves as Betazu, but their chaotic beings make it impossible to mimic Betazu rules and customs.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: Good job, guys.
40:50
SPEAKER_04: So they get caught very quickly.
40:52
SPEAKER_02: It's like when you try to disguise self as like a particular individual, but you just have no idea.
40:57
SPEAKER_02: You just have no idea how to imitate their mannerisms or anything.
41:00
SPEAKER_02: So that's so funny.
41:02
SPEAKER_04: So another there's another play that actually worked.
41:06
SPEAKER_04: Um, the most successful one is this betazoo trick known as the Four Cross.
41:11
SPEAKER_02: Quadruple Crossed.
41:13
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
41:14
SPEAKER_04: Uh so during and some intense fighting, a pitfiend general, legend says it was Belle, uh, suddenly ordered his troops to switch sides, and then they slaughter the other Betazu on the field.
41:25
SPEAKER_04: The Tonnerie are pretty like I don't really believe that.
41:29
SPEAKER_04: I don't trust like that.
41:31
SPEAKER_04: They they don't think that it's true.
41:33
SPEAKER_04: And so Bell tries to win their favor by revealing Betorian battle plans.
41:38
SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
41:39
SPEAKER_04: Uh the Pit Pit Fiend even continues with this, and he's like, I I'll double cross them even more.
41:45
SPEAKER_04: I'm going to go back to Betor and I'm going to pretend to rejoin them.
41:49
SPEAKER_04: Like everyone who saw me switch sides is dead.
41:53
SPEAKER_04: They don't know.
41:54
SPEAKER_04: And then I'm going to portray them again on the battlefield to show you guys like I'm for real.
41:59
SPEAKER_04: What the hell?
42:00
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
42:01
SPEAKER_04: So the Tanare are like, okay, yeah.
42:03
SPEAKER_04: Sure.
42:04
SPEAKER_04: Sounds great.
42:05
SPEAKER_04: So Bell does go back home.
42:07
SPEAKER_04: But unknown to the Tanari, he then tells the Betazu um the rough details of what he told the Tanari and the Tanari plans and troop sizes.
42:18
SPEAKER_04: And what he's going to do next.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
42:21
SPEAKER_04: So when the next forces come to engage uh the Tanare, Bell rides at the Betazu, but he switches sides again in the middle of the fighting, just like he told the Tanare.
42:33
SPEAKER_04: Uh, and this time, he and his troops fight on the side of Chaos for a year and a day, earning the full trust of the Tanari lords.
42:41
SPEAKER_04: Can't forget that last day.
42:42
SPEAKER_04: Very important.
42:43
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
42:43
SPEAKER_04: Yo yeah.
42:44
SPEAKER_04: And then Bell takes the several abyssal high-ups into a long arranged Beta Zoo ambush.
42:51
SPEAKER_04: And it crippled Tanari efforts for a good decade.
42:56
SPEAKER_02: Oh, and he only had to sacrifice like 2,000 Beta Zoo soldiers.
43:00
SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's whatever.
43:01
SPEAKER_04: Um, so they're reduced to fighting a defensive battle in the abyss for like 10 years.
43:08
SPEAKER_02: So funny.
43:09
SPEAKER_02: There really is like a quadruple cross there.
43:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's true.
43:11
SPEAKER_02: Because I expected the second go-round to be when he betrayed them, not the next.
43:16
SPEAKER_04: No.
43:17
SPEAKER_04: And so funny.
43:19
SPEAKER_04: So in in this, uh it says verbatim, Bell is rewarded for his elaborate double double cross with a command with command of the armies of Avernus, the first layer of Beethoven.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: The double double cross.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: So that's the double double everyone's talking about.
43:36
SPEAKER_04: So, and this is actually what I was uh making my evil laugh about.
43:42
SPEAKER_02: Ugaloths are also incredibly treacherous when it comes to the blood war.
43:46
SPEAKER_02: Wow, no, they're treacherous about everything else.
43:48
SPEAKER_02: They not the blood war, too.
43:50
SPEAKER_04: They appear to betray their employees, uh sorry, and betray their employers randomly, but closer examination shows that they only they.
44:00
SPEAKER_04: They do so only when fighting for the side that's currently ahead in the war.
44:04
SPEAKER_05: So the theory is just keeps going.
44:07
SPEAKER_05: Fighting going forever.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: Oh baby.
44:11
SPEAKER_01: Wait, wait.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: Why the hell do they want the fighting to keep going though?
44:15
SPEAKER_02: So that way one side doesn't dominate the other one.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: And then in turn, yeah, I mean they're neutr they're neutral evil.
44:21
SPEAKER_04: They only want they don't want one of those to work.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: To work win.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: No, that's forgot about their neutral.
44:29
SPEAKER_02: Oh, they want to preserve the they want to preserve the balance, even though they're evil.
44:34
SPEAKER_02: You treacherous little bitches.
44:36
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I love it.
44:36
SPEAKER_04: They want Beitizu and the Tonari are so far out their own asses that they either fail to see it or believe it.
44:43
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
44:43
SPEAKER_04: And honestly, I probably believe uh the second one, failing to believe it.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: They just don't want to believe it.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: They're like, no, they're just helping us somehow.
44:52
SPEAKER_04: And you might be thinking, Asmodeus, he's such a like intelligent, calculating creature.
44:57
SPEAKER_04: But he's so up his well, we leave- He is very much up his own ass.
45:00
SPEAKER_02: We we discussed that's his primary flaw, is that he he's so up his own ass that you know he believes that he's right about everything.
45:08
SPEAKER_04: So after years years of regular fighting, um, this is the first instance of basically either Beitazoo or Hanari realizing that they can make more of their own kind using the souls of the dead.
45:22
SPEAKER_02: Great.
45:23
SPEAKER_04: Um, it starts with um Beitizo.
45:26
SPEAKER_04: They begin to experiment on the the dead.
45:29
SPEAKER_04: As y'all recall, we talked about soul larva.
45:31
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
45:32
SPEAKER_04: Um, so when they first started springing up, because obviously people die.
45:36
SPEAKER_04: People die, and devils and demons kind of like they came a long, long time before mortals.
45:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so this is yeah, this has been happening for a long time.
45:47
SPEAKER_04: Oberiths, like the Oberiths created the Tonari from demons.
45:51
SPEAKER_04: It's not exactly like it was a trade, it was a trade seeker.
45:54
SPEAKER_04: It wasn't like everyone knew how.
45:56
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
45:56
SPEAKER_04: So like they've just had these like larva coming around on both sides.
46:00
SPEAKER_04: Right.
46:00
SPEAKER_04: The beta zoo decide to start experimenting.
46:04
SPEAKER_04: Right.
46:05
SPEAKER_04: Love it.
46:05
SPEAKER_04: They find that they can turn them into these lesser beta zoo, and then you know, naturally.
46:11
SPEAKER_02: And then the this the cycle of promotion happens.
46:14
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
46:14
SPEAKER_04: So, of course, this information gets to the Tanari, and the Yugalots are suspected of spreading this information, but there's no proof of their involvement.
46:23
SPEAKER_02: Never.
46:24
SPEAKER_04: And the Tanare began their own experiments with the abyssal larva, and wow, it's so easy to make some Tanare.
46:32
SPEAKER_04: All you need is a larva and some sin.
46:34
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
46:35
SPEAKER_04: So for the first time, they realize they can actually increase their own populations and they really don't need to worry so much about casualties of war.
46:42
SPEAKER_02: Now everyone's a lot more expendable.
46:45
SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
46:46
SPEAKER_02: Then this is this was after Bell's double double cross.
46:51
SPEAKER_02: Because that to me seemed like a flagrant disregard of war casualties.
46:55
SPEAKER_04: But so what's interesting is that like I I I like I didn't think about that.
47:02
SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
47:03
SPEAKER_04: I mean, obviously they're demons and devils, they don't care that much.
47:07
SPEAKER_02: But also to say that now they don't care about casualties and now people are really expendable is saying something.
47:16
SPEAKER_04: And like worse.
47:17
SPEAKER_04: Demons have always been a lot more numerous than devils because that was kind of their thing is that demons are numerous and devils are calculating.
47:24
SPEAKER_04: Are organized, yeah.
47:25
SPEAKER_04: But it's just so funny that like Belle just expended so many just for the hell of it.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: He was like, Oh, I don't care.
47:34
SPEAKER_04: So, um, so somewhere around the same time as they started to increase their population, uh, the infernals actually discover Sigil, which you'll recall long time ago from being from the plane episode, is the City of Doors, which is basically a portal to every other plane in the world.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: Yes, right.
47:53
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
47:53
SPEAKER_01: I do recall that.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because that's just so fucking cool sounding.
47:57
SPEAKER_04: Um the demons are, or well, actually, the demons and devils, the infernals, are like, this is a perfect launching pad for our invasion.
48:05
SPEAKER_04: But the Lady of Pain does not let them in the city.
48:09
SPEAKER_04: Ooh.
48:10
SPEAKER_04: There's actually a really interesting story that um the Lady of Pain is that might actually be a renegade Tanare who fled to Sigil to protect herself from the other Tanare.
48:20
SPEAKER_04: Um, and she's gotten control of the city in the initial stages of the blood war.
48:24
SPEAKER_04: And but there's also an opposite story that she's a Betazooo lord doing that, which honestly would make more sense to me because she's chaotic neut- or sorry, she's lawful neutral.
48:35
SPEAKER_04: But there's another legend that actually says the Lady of Pain started the war, but there's no clue to what end, and it that's basically the the whole of it.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: Huh.
48:43
SPEAKER_01: So not a lot there.
48:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:45
SPEAKER_01: Someone just scribbled that on a piece of parchment and it was like, here.
48:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:48
SPEAKER_02: That's like that's a conspiracy theory.
48:50
SPEAKER_02: They just popped on their tinfoil hat, and they're like, what if the lady of pain started the blood war?
48:54
SPEAKER_04: Well, like, the Lady of Pain is so interesting to me as a character because there's almost nothing on her.
48:59
SPEAKER_04: But we know Except that she started the Blood War, apparently.
49:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
49:02
SPEAKER_04: And also she's in charge of the city.
49:06
SPEAKER_04: She does not like prayers, she will kill you for praying to her.
49:09
SPEAKER_01: Um Jesus.
49:11
SPEAKER_04: She um she knows the Raven Queen personally.
49:16
SPEAKER_04: And she knows the Raven true the Raven Queen's intentions and true name.
49:20
SPEAKER_04: Oh.
49:21
SPEAKER_04: Uh, and she stopped Vecna at one point.
49:24
SPEAKER_02: She got her fingers in a lot of interesting pies.
49:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:27
SPEAKER_04: God damn.
49:28
SPEAKER_04: Anyways, she rules sigil and that's it.
49:31
SPEAKER_04: Uh she doesn't mind like the lesser fiends in the city, and I mean fiends literally in this point.
49:38
SPEAKER_04: But she tolerates the greater ones.
49:41
SPEAKER_04: But if they even step out of line, uh, well, she'll kill them.
49:45
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
49:45
SPEAKER_02: Immediately.
49:46
SPEAKER_04: So it's kind of like uh they're all they're they have gotten to the point where they're allowed in the city now, but they're not allowed to leave the city through a portal that's not to their own home realm.
49:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's kind of like a like a probably a little bit of like a neutral zone, I would say.
50:00
SPEAKER_02: Like if they go in there and try to start trouble, she shuts it down.
50:03
SPEAKER_04: But like they can hang.
50:04
SPEAKER_02: She kills you.
50:05
SPEAKER_04: They can they can do a little spot of shopping, but yeah, and like murder is okay in sigil, but not like um not war.
50:12
SPEAKER_02: Not like not like um politically aligned.
50:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, not like politically aligned murder.
50:18
SPEAKER_04: Anything that disrupts the neutrality of it.
50:20
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
50:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
50:21
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wait, so murder isn't evil.
50:25
SPEAKER_02: You know, according to the Lady of Twitter.
50:27
SPEAKER_04: I I did say that murder was okay.
50:29
SPEAKER_04: I don't actually know if that's true, but I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.
50:32
SPEAKER_04: I didn't write it down because this is not about sigil, although that would be good enough.
50:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
50:37
SPEAKER_04: Um, anyways.
50:38
SPEAKER_04: Sound off of the comments.
50:39
SPEAKER_04: Is murder okay?
50:40
SPEAKER_04: Uh while we're talking about important places for the blood war.
50:46
SPEAKER_04: One of the major battlefields uh fields of the war is called the Field of Nettles, which is in the first layer of the Grey Waste Oyanos.
50:52
SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
50:53
SPEAKER_04: Oyanos.
50:54
SPEAKER_04: One of those.
50:55
SPEAKER_04: It first comes to use as two squadrons of fiends fight it out for the possession of it.
51:00
SPEAKER_04: It's about 90,000 square miles of wasteland buffs and nettles.
51:05
SPEAKER_01: Good god.
51:05
SPEAKER_04: That's that's like the most like descriptive thing I've ever heard about like the size of one of those areas, other than when we did the Modrins episode.
51:14
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
51:14
SPEAKER_04: Uh so it's stuck between two tributaries of the River Sticks, and the field eventually becomes a major staging point, and it's Freyer that doesn't see a battalion or two march through that area and within a year.
51:27
SPEAKER_04: Um, they've been fighting over it constantly, no one can really grab hold of it.
51:31
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
51:32
SPEAKER_04: And actually, people scavenge there for uh lots of things left behind by the blood war.
51:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean shit, you might as well.
51:39
SPEAKER_01: Bodies.
51:40
SPEAKER_02: Or well, probably not bodies first, but you know, weapons and armor and armor items, whatever.
51:46
SPEAKER_04: Magical things.
51:47
SPEAKER_04: So at some point, morale among the Batesoo kind of just plummets, especially among the inferiors.
51:54
SPEAKER_04: Um Abishai suddenly disappear, Spinachon's mysteriously fail to deliver messages, even Barbazou, who are normally like so about fighting, they're reluctant to fight.
52:06
SPEAKER_04: They're they don't want to do it.
52:08
SPEAKER_01: That's weird.
52:09
SPEAKER_04: So they're-I mean, like if I were a a therapist, I would diagnose all of these uh They're all depressed.
52:16
SPEAKER_04: They're all depressed.
52:17
SPEAKER_02: They all have like severe They're not interested in doing their usual interests.
52:23
SPEAKER_02: Are you losing are you losing interest in killing people?
52:28
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
52:30
SPEAKER_04: Oh um, so eventually it just like their their depression goes untreated for so long, so it explodes.
52:37
SPEAKER_04: And an entire town full of lesser beetazu just gives in to chaos.
52:41
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's what happened to me too.
52:42
SPEAKER_04: Oh wow.
52:44
SPEAKER_04: So the inferiors just swarm over higher-ranking beta zoo and crush the life for some and hold others caught hostage.
52:51
SPEAKER_04: The dark eight themselves, you remember the one that involves avernus and the dark eight, the number eight.
53:00
SPEAKER_01: Not the dark eight themselves.
53:02
SPEAKER_04: The dark eight themselves.
53:03
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
53:03
SPEAKER_04: Um just wanted to clarify for in the flesh appear to deal with the situation.
53:10
SPEAKER_04: And guess what?
53:11
SPEAKER_04: So do a number of Baylors from the Tanare.
53:15
SPEAKER_04: Oh, the rebel, the rebellion was carefully put together by the Tanare, the most put together thing they've ever done.
53:22
SPEAKER_02: They replaced their antidepressants with sugar pills.
53:25
SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
53:26
SPEAKER_01: You fucking Tanare bitches.
53:28
SPEAKER_04: Uh the Baylors hope to drive these Baitazu into chaos, but they failed to understand exactly how much these lesser fiends fucking hate anything having to do with the Tanare.
53:39
SPEAKER_04: They hate it more than anything.
53:42
SPEAKER_04: They'll give into ki chaos before they even look at a Tanare.
53:47
SPEAKER_04: Dang.
53:48
SPEAKER_04: Uh so the hapless Baylors are then torn apart by uh the these same bait to zoom.
53:54
SPEAKER_04: Poor Balors.
53:55
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
53:55
SPEAKER_04: And then the Guardian 8 punish all of the prominent rebels, leaving no doubt in anyone's mind what'll happen the next time.
54:02
SPEAKER_02: How depressed does a Tonari have to be to give in to law?
54:07
SPEAKER_04: Pretty damn depressed, man.
54:09
SPEAKER_02: Like, I wonder what that looks like.
54:11
SPEAKER_04: Maybe that's what maybe the Lady of Pain is a Tonari, and that's why she's in so much pain.
54:17
SPEAKER_01: But like certainly not due to the pain she causes.
54:20
SPEAKER_02: No.
54:21
SPEAKER_02: Nah.
54:21
SPEAKER_02: But like, the because you know, I I guess maybe it's just because I'm a human who lives in society.
54:26
SPEAKER_02: But like I can see the breakdown from being in like a strict, like a society.
54:32
SPEAKER_02: Right.
54:33
SPEAKER_02: And then giving into chaos because of your emotional state.
54:35
SPEAKER_02: But I just wonder what the opposite of that would look like for a Tanari.
54:38
SPEAKER_04: I mean, wouldn't it would it would it would it be depression, or would you have to be so anxious that you give into law?
54:44
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
54:45
SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
54:45
SPEAKER_02: Think about that.
54:47
SPEAKER_02: Shit.
54:48
SPEAKER_04: So after uh there's a while after this, but it after the rebellion, for the first time since their union against the Celestials, the Beijazu and the Tonari call it truce.
55:01
SPEAKER_04: Momentary.
55:02
SPEAKER_04: The commanders agree to meet at the edge of Goresh Chasm in the Great Waste, which is this massive chasm that sprung up out of nowhere.
55:11
SPEAKER_04: And like no one survives going into it.
55:15
SPEAKER_04: It's not like it just pulls you down into it, but if you like go to like try and explore it, you never come out.
55:20
SPEAKER_02: Oh, oh, I have a prediction.
55:22
SPEAKER_02: This isn't gonna go well.
55:23
SPEAKER_04: Well, no, it's gone great.
55:24
SPEAKER_04: Don't worry about it.
55:25
SPEAKER_02: Okay, it's your sport in a moment.
55:29
SPEAKER_04: Pessimists on both sides, of course, are saying it's gonna end in a disaster.
55:32
SPEAKER_04: And celestials are terrified about what might happen if they agree.
55:37
SPEAKER_04: But and like tensions are getting high, but it seems the blood war might actually be nearing an end.
55:43
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I have a prediction.
55:44
SPEAKER_02: It's not going to end.
55:46
SPEAKER_04: Stop being psychic.
55:48
SPEAKER_04: Oh, wait, so I'm right?
55:49
SPEAKER_04: The conclave erupts into bloodshed because a Baylor sits in a pitfiend's chair and refuses to move.
55:57
SPEAKER_01: Wait.
55:58
SPEAKER_01: That's what causes this.
56:00
SPEAKER_04: Yes, the whole time they're like, yes, let's talk that talk this out.
56:03
SPEAKER_04: You know, we we both like evil, we both hate the celestials.
56:06
SPEAKER_04: We have a lot of things in common.
56:07
SPEAKER_04: We can work this out.
56:09
SPEAKER_04: We can use chaos.
56:10
SPEAKER_04: You guys can use some order.
56:11
SPEAKER_02: Oh, hey.
56:12
SPEAKER_02: It's fine.
56:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh hey, bud.
56:13
SPEAKER_02: That's my that's my chair.
56:14
SPEAKER_02: Do you mind?
56:15
SPEAKER_02: Hey, fuck you.
56:20
SPEAKER_01: It was going so well until this one fucking bailoid just sits in one of the pitfiend's chairs.
56:25
SPEAKER_02: And that's it.
56:26
SPEAKER_02: That's what causes.
56:26
SPEAKER_02: Hey, you know what?
56:27
SPEAKER_02: That chair was a polymorph you galoss.
56:29
SPEAKER_04: In the battle, all of the assembled, all of the higher ups, like the generals and stuff, are launched into the chasm.
56:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
56:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeet! Yep.
56:43
SPEAKER_04: Uh later, the the demons and the devils try to plan these further negotiations, but neither side trusts each other and anymore.
56:52
SPEAKER_04: Because of that, even a little bit.
56:55
SPEAKER_01: Because you sat in my chair.
56:57
SPEAKER_04: Oh, they're both dead.
56:58
SPEAKER_04: The Baylor and the Pitfiend are both dead.
57:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, but still.
57:02
SPEAKER_04: What happened to the chair?
57:05
SPEAKER_04: I want to know why.
57:06
SPEAKER_04: Right?
57:07
SPEAKER_04: The chair's the real's the real victim.
57:10
SPEAKER_01: It's still sitting on the edge of the chasm, just empty forever now.
57:13
SPEAKER_04: You know what?
57:14
SPEAKER_04: Good for the chair.
57:14
SPEAKER_01: It's a tourist spot.
57:15
SPEAKER_01: People come take pictures.
57:17
SPEAKER_04: Sit in it.
57:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh get thrown off a cliff.
57:21
SPEAKER_04: They do attempt a few meetings, but they all end in carnage, and any agreement just loss to the ages.
57:28
SPEAKER_02: Probably chair-based conflict.
57:30
SPEAKER_04: Probably.
57:31
SPEAKER_04: So God.
57:34
SPEAKER_02: This is the funniest fucking thing I've ever heard.
57:37
SPEAKER_04: I don't know why, but it's going along on these like.
57:42
SPEAKER_04: Is this chair labeled?
57:44
SPEAKER_04: I hope so.
57:46
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
57:46
SPEAKER_04: Going along with these like um little interesting points of reference for the uh for the for the war.
57:54
SPEAKER_04: Um, at one point, Orcas, you know, the major Tonari Lord.
57:57
SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah, that's the leader of the undead armies and eternal foe of Dimagorgan.
58:02
SPEAKER_04: Oh.
58:02
SPEAKER_04: Um, he is destroyed by the Drow goddess Kieran Sidley.
58:07
SPEAKER_04: Yay! Um you'll recall that she wanted to completely erase his memory from the minds of she kills him.
58:17
SPEAKER_04: Uh his body is cast into the astral plane, his lawn is blocked away, and Agathion and the fourth layer of pandemonium.
58:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh oh, okay.
58:26
SPEAKER_01: That's a step further.
58:28
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
58:28
SPEAKER_04: Uh the up people deals a major blow to the Tannaree, who, of course, you know, we're counting on Orcus as undead.
58:35
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's just all stage.
58:36
SPEAKER_04: Kiara and Silia offer similar services, but they the Tonari don't really want to take it from her because she just killed Orcas.
58:44
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
58:44
SPEAKER_04: And they look for ways to restore Orcus to power.
58:47
SPEAKER_04: Rip and succeed, obviously.
58:50
SPEAKER_04: I mentioned that in the Demons episode, one of those.
58:53
SPEAKER_04: And he returns to prominence, and someone else decides to remove Kieran Saley from existence.
58:58
SPEAKER_01: Rip.
58:59
SPEAKER_01: Someone else, we don't have a we don't have like a specific There's a name.
59:04
SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna try and pronounce it.
59:05
SPEAKER_04: There's also not much history about him.
59:07
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so never mind.
59:08
SPEAKER_02: Not important.
59:09
SPEAKER_02: Just someone they introduced for the irony of doing that to Kieran Saley.
59:13
SPEAKER_04: Probably.
59:14
SPEAKER_04: And then of course she comes back during the second century.
59:16
SPEAKER_04: It's a whole ordeal.
59:17
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
59:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well.
59:18
SPEAKER_04: So the crawling city.
59:19
SPEAKER_04: It's the most important city to the Ugaloths as it is the home of the general of Gehenna.
59:24
SPEAKER_04: Wait.
59:25
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
59:26
SPEAKER_04: So it moves across all the layers of Gehenna.
59:29
SPEAKER_04: Just it literally crawls.
59:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
59:32
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
59:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that's why it's called the Crawling City.
59:34
SPEAKER_04: Is it a bug?
59:35
SPEAKER_04: Um, it's just this roaming city.
59:38
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
59:39
SPEAKER_04: I mean, the planes are weird.
59:40
SPEAKER_01: Is it okay?
59:41
SPEAKER_01: Planes are weird.
59:42
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
59:42
SPEAKER_04: So the city itself has never, in the entirety of its existence, never entered the blood war.
59:48
SPEAKER_04: Uh, there is an ancient prophecy that tells that if it ever does, the blood war would reach a decisive conclusion in an apocalyptic battle.
59:57
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
59:58
SPEAKER_04: But then Asmodeus achieves full-on divinity by consuming the essence of Azeth.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_04: Great.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_04: And he's like, the blood war ended.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_04: I pushed because he pushes the abyss to the bottom of the elemental chaos.
1:00:11
SPEAKER_04: What the fuck?
1:00:12
SPEAKER_04: This is kind of some fourth edition fuckery where they changed the cut tr the cosmology a lot.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that elemental chaos tipped me off of that.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:00:23
SPEAKER_02: Um great, love it.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_04: Because instead of the perfect little wheel that like stuff orbiting and stuff, it's now just like scattered.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_04: Like I know that they were trying to be more organic, but it's some fourth edition bullshit.
1:00:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:00:39
SPEAKER_02: I mean, at least like the the tree, the tree of life model was a little bit that was organized still.
1:00:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can just the abyss, like yeah, because he's divine now.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_04: But also, like, did he really end the blood war?
1:00:53
SPEAKER_04: Because they're like still fighting.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_04: And like the the abyss still exists.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_04: It's just at the bottom of the elemental chaos.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, a leader of a certain type of faction has never made an unsubstantiated claim about winning something, so and uh Damn.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_04: Despite, as Modes' claims, everyone knew that it wasn't over.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_04: Mostly kind of just stalled for a little bit.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_04: But there were still some fights, but anyways.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_02: Well, they won, apparently.
1:01:25
SPEAKER_02: The the devils won the blood war.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_02: Spoiler alert.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_04: By 1486 DR, hey, look, it's our first year.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_04: Uh demons had had enough demons among them that a lot of the devils feared that the war would restart.
1:01:41
SPEAKER_04: Well, Asmodeus was indisposed because he was dealing with the second sundering.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_02: Also, that's funny that it's like they were worried it would restart when I I feel like a lot of people felt like it never really ended.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
1:01:53
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like it's like it's just gonna get worse.
1:01:56
SPEAKER_04: The Blood War officially restarted in Torril during a the first Timanther Unther War.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_04: Good job.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_04: Um while on World of a Beer, Gilgium Gilgim contacted the demon lord Graz you guys remember him.
1:02:16
SPEAKER_04: He was a piece of shit.
1:02:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:02:19
SPEAKER_04: And asked him to aid Unther in their war against Genasi forces.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_04: And Uther returned to Torril as part was returned to Toril as part of the second sundering.
1:02:29
SPEAKER_04: And Gilgium immediately moved against Tamanther to reclaim the former lands of Unther from the Dragonborn.
1:02:37
SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of fucking history there that I'm very interested in.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_01: There is that's definitely a rabbit hole.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
1:02:46
SPEAKER_04: I couldn't go down it, but I prom like I I can't promise this, but at some point we might go into some of the actual kingdoms of the Forgotten Realms and some some because we've talked about like the Elven stuff before and Yeah, and a little bit about the Dragonborn.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_02: Like the Dragonborn um in Forgotten Realms are just starting to settle on Tauril.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_02: They're mostly from a beer.
1:03:11
SPEAKER_04: Yeah it's a weird and then the second sundering is like, oh, here fuck you.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_04: It's all crazy again.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_04: So in 1487, DR, uh, the forces of Gilgium laid siege to Jared Dimar.
1:03:27
SPEAKER_04: Damn it, Jared.
1:03:28
SPEAKER_04: Well, the chosen of the gods of Asmode gods Asmodeus and Azut conducted a ritual on the city in order to make both gods separate entities again.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
1:03:39
unknown: Yes.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_02: Because Asmodeus had absorbed his essence.
1:03:43
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:03:43
SPEAKER_04: And what?
1:03:45
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:03:47
SPEAKER_04: Basically, a lot of people wanted this to happen and helped the chosen accomplish this goal because Azeth wanted to Azeth followers wanted Azeth again.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_04: Asmodeus followers, I guess, wanted Asmodeus.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_04: I don't know if they wanted to be separated because they're the chosen, so that's like we had some of that before with the Chosens, like basically being extensions of the gods will.
1:04:13
SPEAKER_04: So they had to have had like a mission from Asmodeus.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Asmodeus, like consumed Azott's essence, and then like however many years later was like, Fuck this.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_04: I don't want this shit.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_02: He's like, he's in there like chit-chatting or like, you know, whatever inside of Asmodeus' head, or he's like sunk in place in there, and Asmodeus is like, this sucks, actually.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_01: See, like, I was trying to figure out why the hell Asmodeus would want to give up that extra power.
1:04:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the power to push.
1:04:41
SPEAKER_04: Not just that.
1:04:41
SPEAKER_04: Um, if you'll recall, this was forever ago in the tiefling episode.
1:04:46
SPEAKER_04: He'd finally have he he was able to use his power to make all the tieflings in his image.
1:04:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_01: So, like, why the hell would you want to give up?
1:04:56
SPEAKER_01: Asmodeus is so flaky.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_02: Because he well, with the extra SS inside of him, he couldn't fit up his own asshole.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_02: And we can't have that.
1:05:04
SPEAKER_02: So anyway.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he is he is a little, I would say, full of himself as far as his his image of perfection and rightness.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_02: So maybe at some point that started to conflict.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_04: And that that is sort of my thought because he wants part of his reasoning for like the blood war and why he's like so unconcerned with winning sometimes is because he's so focused on the fact that he wants to take over everything because he can make everything better.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_02: He thinks lawful evil is the way to go, you know.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_04: Or he doesn't care if you're lawful good.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_04: He doesn't.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_04: He thinks law is the way to go.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_04: That's it doesn't matter.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_02: And also, like, it also might just be a stupid decision that doesn't really make any sense that was just, you know, used as a vehicle to move the story.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, Blood War's back.
1:05:53
SPEAKER_04: Yay!
1:05:54
SPEAKER_02: More blood, more war.
1:05:56
SPEAKER_02: Let's go.
1:05:56
SPEAKER_04: And that's all I have because, well, I mean, we're kind of out.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_04: At 5th edition now, and also like present events in the world of DD.
1:06:04
SPEAKER_04: There's no more back history.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_01: They haven't quite uh gotten there with the Blood War yet.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_02: So it's just it's just ongoing.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_02: It's just like right.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_02: This this all happened and now it's it's still going.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_02: So and you know what?
1:06:18
SPEAKER_02: I have another prediction.
1:06:19
SPEAKER_02: It literally won't ever end.
1:06:21
unknown: What?
1:06:22
SPEAKER_02: So like balance or whatever.
1:06:24
SPEAKER_04: Sorry, it got a little weird at the end there.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of backstory now once you finally get like into the mortals being on the primaterial realm and having a like hand in things.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, an involvement, a vested interest in things.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:06:39
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I will mention there's a it's not very long, but there's this little um tidbit about like how when they can get to the primaterial plane and realize that they can fuck and make uh uh make chieflings, it is it's it like they want to use like the chieflings and the cambians and half beans and stuff to further their goals.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_04: Further their goals, and then it just doesn't go well for them.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh no.
1:07:08
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, that's that's it.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_04: Like a year of work finally completed.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_01: How does it feel?
1:07:14
SPEAKER_01: You have completed the blood war.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_04: It's interesting, especially because like Taylor, you can do whatever you want now.
1:07:20
unknown: I know.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_02: You're free.
1:07:21
SPEAKER_02: The freedom.
1:07:22
SPEAKER_04: I'm free, I'm free, I'm finally free.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_04: Um, but also it's just interesting to me that I spent so long on this and there's not really a conclusion.
1:07:30
SPEAKER_04: Like, yeah, like the blood war isn't over.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_04: The blood war is never going to be over.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_04: And like the one of the interesting things about doing a DD lore podcast is reflections with Dungeon Pedia.
1:07:46
SPEAKER_04: Shut up.
1:07:46
SPEAKER_04: Is that as we are saying almost every single episode, there might be an addition late later on in the future that changes something something that we've done.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_04: So we can always revisit episodes, and it's just I don't know.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_04: I'm getting an emotional thinking about how far this has come and how how far Dungeons and Dragons has come.
1:08:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like so much.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_01: There's just been so much to it.
1:08:12
SPEAKER_01: But I don't know if y'all can hear it, but it sounds like our little kitty is hungry.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:08:18
SPEAKER_01: She's yelling at the door now, which she hasn't done in months.
1:08:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:08:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:08:23
SPEAKER_01: So we should probably go feed the poor little thing before she just dies of starvation.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I suppose her.
1:08:28
SPEAKER_04: Her parents don't feed her.
1:08:29
SPEAKER_04: Shut up.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_04: Don't even.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_04: Someone's gonna come on my shop.
1:08:32
SPEAKER_01: Oh god, right?
1:08:33
SPEAKER_01: People will come to us and be like, why don't you feed?
1:08:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's I mean, that's what that's what she's she she she gets all of the love and affection and she needs.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_02: I speak cat.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_02: That's what she's telling me.
1:08:46
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:08:46
SPEAKER_02: She's a liar.
1:08:47
SPEAKER_02: She's a cat, apparently.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_02: I I'm also easily fooled by cats, which is true.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_04: But uh thank you guys so much for listening to this whole the this whole arc, but also this episode.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_02: And if you haven't, there's a lot more demon and devil content, a lot more infernal content.
1:09:06
SPEAKER_04: And it's kind of separated from the rest of the stuff, but I highly recommend also the Tieflings episode.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_04: It is still to this day one of my most proud episodes.
1:09:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, you definitely need to check out the Tiefling episode.
1:09:17
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:09:18
SPEAKER_01: It is still kind of tied to this.
1:09:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:09:21
SPEAKER_02: They're they're Taylor's favorite DD race and it it shows.
1:09:24
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_02: You know.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, don't forget, you know, follow us on all those lovely various social medias.
1:09:32
SPEAKER_02: Where we discuss if murder is evil.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:09:35
SPEAKER_02: And if you have a topic suggestion that Taylor can take them now.
1:09:39
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I think.
1:09:40
SPEAKER_02: She's not committed to doing she's free.
1:09:43
SPEAKER_02: You can email those to us at dungeonpedia.podcast at gmail.com.
1:09:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you all once again for listening, and uh we'll catch you here next week on Dungeonpedia.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_04: What color blood do they have?
1:09:56
SPEAKER_04: Is it red?
1:09:57
SPEAKER_04: Somebody No, I can't I can't go back to the book.
1:10:00
SPEAKER_01: I would like to picture orange.
1:10:02
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why I just orange.
1:10:03
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't think that's different enough.
1:10:05
SPEAKER_02: What if it's like it depends?
1:10:07
SPEAKER_02: So it's just like a splatter of rainbow paint.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_02: It's over.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_02: Splatoon.