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John Bowman Oral History · Winter Park History Museum's "A Stroll Down Park Avenue"

• 0:00
  INTERVIEWER: We’re talking to Mr. John Bowman on April 22nd 2005. We’re at the Winter Park Historical Association, 200 New England Avenue, Winter Park, Florida.
• 0:13
  INTERVIEWER: Mr. Bowman, I would like to personally thank you for taking the time out to conduct this interview and adding history to preserve the town of Winter Park.
• 0:22
  INTERVIEWER: Uh... We’re just going to begin and ask little general questions just to get to know you. And I’m going to start off with, when and where- where were you born?
• 0:32
  JOHN BOWMAN: I was born in Upstate New York, 1931, June 1st.
• 0:36
  INTERVIEWER: And so, when did you come to Winter Park?
• 0:39
  JOHN BOWMAN: I came to Winter Park in 1958.
• 0:42
  INTERVIEWER: Was there any reason why you came down here or--
• 0:46
  JOHN BOWMAN: Why I came down here? Well, I actually came here in 1955. I was in the- I worked for Uncle Sam in the United States Air Force and-- and four years. And uh...
• 0:57
  JOHN BOWMAN: they sent me down here for the last six months of my duty. And I went to the beach in February and they said it was snowing and blowing in New York City. And I said, I’m not going back and I didn’t. I got married that year, ’55, came back and been here ever since.
• 1:16
  JOHN BOWMAN: I lived in Orlando for a while and then moved to Winter Park, as I said, in 1958--
• 1:22
  INTERVIEWER: All right.
• 1:23
  JOHN BOWMAN: -- April.
• 1:24
  INTERVIEWER: April.
• 1:25
  JOHN BOWMAN: Uhm-uhm.
• 1:26
  INTERVIEWER: Uh...what’s your educational background?
• 1:28
  JOHN BOWMAN: High school.
• 1:29
  INTERVIEWER: High school?
• 1:30
  JOHN BOWMAN: Uhm-uhm. That’s all. And that’s all as far as, you know, formal education.
• 1:35
  INTERVIEWER: Uhm-uhm.
• 1:36
  JOHN BOWMAN: I didn’t make it to college. I went to the school of hard knocks.
• 1:41
  INTERVIEWER: So after you came from serving the U.S. uh... what was your first employment- place of employment?
• 1:48
  JOHN BOWMAN: Dick’s Auto and Electric on Summerlin Avenue and Washington in Orlando.
• 1:54
  JOHN BOWMAN: I was there from ’55 to 1960.
• 1:57
  INTERVIEWER: As in that, how was the business running, like how?
• 2:02
  JOHN BOWMAN: Well, I can tell you that the average wage at that time at that-- when I went to work was $50 [$15?] a week. That was the average, 50. And uh...I stayed with that until, as I say, in 1960 and then it-- he- he sold-- his father sold out and he went to work for the Highway Patrol and so I finally had to leave after the man that bought it ran out of money.
• 2:36
  JOHN BOWMAN: And uh... so uh... I came to Winter Park uh... then went to work in 1960 for Andy Ahik’s garage. It was 500 Holt Avenue. Never figured that out. I said, how did he get 500?
• 2:50
  JOHN BOWMAN: And they said, well, they could have any number they wanted. So they took 500, Holt Avenue.
• 2:56
  JOHN BOWMAN: That’s-- There’s nothing there now. It’s all gone. Tore it down in 1984.
• 3:01
  INTERVIEWER: 1984.
• 3:03
  JOHN BOWMAN: I think it was ’84 when they tore it down, ’83 or ’84. The- the building was gone. And they sold and never-- piece of property is still vacant. It’s still vacant as far as I know.
• 3:18
  INTERVIEWER: Uhm-uhm. Uh... with that uh... how was the environment there? How-- what other buildings standing at that time? Any- any other stores, any other--
• 3:27
  JOHN BOWMAN: No. That was the only- that was the only uh... commercial piece of property that faced Holt Avenue, which is opposite Fairbanks. It’s by the railroad tracks. If you go back by the railroad tracks, that piece of property would be-- from here it’d be on your left. And it’s on the other side of the tracks.
• 3:51
  JOHN BOWMAN: I think it’s still 3-C commercial there. And then the other was uh... from there back towards Rollins College is uh... multiple dwellings. Some of it was on the other side of the street, too. Of course, I see they have now, they’ve built on that other corner by the railroad tracks.
• 4:14
  INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
• 4:15
  JOHN BOWMAN: And uh... the only other businesses was- was the tin diner, which was on- on Javelin by the railroad tracks where the pub is now, right in that same area.
• 4:29
  JOHN BOWMAN: There was a tin diner there, built in-- right after the war.
• 4:35
  INTERVIEWER: Uh...What type of business did you guys- to get an understanding of this garage, was it a high influx of cars or--
• 4:44
  JOHN BOWMAN: Uh... we did uh... general maintenance. Worked on all kinds. It was an independent garage, had been since 1931. They started out with it on- oh, dear, trying to think of the name of the street behind the bank and uh... next to the uh... college- uh...
• 5:03
  JOHN BOWMAN: not college, but the Congregational Church was in front of it. What is the name of the street, by the Chrysler Building?
• 5:11
  INTERVIEWER: Chrysler.
• 5:13
  JOHN BOWMAN: Now, the Chrysler Building is the one that’s behind the big national-- uh...
• 5:18
  JOHN BOWMAN: Bank of America- Bank of America--
• 5:21
  INTERVIEWER: Bank of America, yeah.
• 5:23
  JOHN BOWMAN: Yeah. Well, if you-- the building that’s right on the corner going towards- that’s the Langford Hotel on the right. If you were going--
• 5:33
  INTERVIEWER: Isn’t that--
• 5:34
  JOHN BOWMAN: That- that used to be called the Chrysler Building.
• 5:38
  INTERVIEWER: Okay.
• 5:39
  JOHN BOWMAN: And they were on that same street and I can’t even remember what it is.
• 5:46
  JOHN BOWMAN: And they--
• 5:47
  INTERVIEWER: Now, I’m just going to ask you a question of, uh- because you were just telling me how the garage that didn’t stand there. Can you tell me the-- also changes that you see from back then to today, what also has left that area? I know, you said there was nothing there, but--
• 6:08
  JOHN BOWMAN: Well- well, most- most garages are gone. I mean, as far as- and a lot of the businesses are gone, because there used to be one, two- there was two parts houses across the street on- which would have been Fairbanks in that same intersection, uh...
• 6:27
  JOHN BOWMAN: D. O. Davis, Fairbanks Auto Service. Uh... There was Al Hupal [ph] Parts House where
• 6:33
  the fondue place is. That used to be- sold automotive parts in that building.: And then, of course, there was Harper’s next door.
• 6:43
  the fondue place is. That used to be- sold automotive parts in that building.: And uh... I’m trying to think what was on down further where the old frame place used to be. There was a garage there, too. There was three or four. And there was a body shop there at Fairbanks. They had a body shop and auto repair. Uh... Then there was Bob’s
• 7:02
  Auto- Bob’s Automatic Transmission.: That used to be a motorcycle place, sold motorcycles back in the ‘30’s and ‘40’s on that- on the other end of the pub- where the pub is-- that’s- that’s an old building, real old, built by Mr. Schmidt, Carl Schmidt.
• 7:19
  INTERVIEWER: Carl Schmidt. And what did Carl Schmidt do?
• 7:22
  JOHN BOWMAN: He sold motorcycles and cars, used to sell Morris Minors [ph] years ago.
• 7:28
  JOHN BOWMAN: And uh... it was a motorcycle shop twice and then they came back- the son came back in there and used the other end where the pub is in that section, that was a motorcycle shop, too back in the ‘60’s and ‘70’s in Winter Park.
• 7:45
  INTERVIEWER: Uh...I want to get back to the Atkin family that [inaudible] the garage--
• 7:50
  JOHN BOWMAN: Ahik?
• 7:51
  INTERVIEWER: -- Ahik, sorry. The--
• 7:53
  JOHN BOWMAN: A-h-i-k.
• 7:54
  INTERVIEWER: Okay. The Ahik family. Uh... Can you just describe- how were they- are they still living in Winter Park?
• 8:02
  JOHN BOWMAN: No. The only one that’s left is a son uh... Lewis. And he lives in Inverness- well, he’s in Inverness right now or the Crystal River section. He’s about 80- I don’t know, 88, 80-something years old.
• 8:16
  INTERVIEWER: Okay.
• 8:17
  JOHN BOWMAN: But that’s the only one that’s left. The father was uh... his father was born here in Winter Park. His grandfather ran a livery stable right there behind us.
• 8:29
  INTERVIEWER: Uh... Can you tell me one of your most memorable moments working in the garage or--
• 8:35
  JOHN BOWMAN: Oh, I don’t know. That’s was- that was an institution. Of course, it’d been there a long time. It was built- they were built in the- after the war, that building was, because they moved over there on- by the church, moved back to uh... moved their garage over there. And it was built for- it could be turned into an apartment building, because it was tall enough. It was a tall-- No, it was actually almost two and a half stories tall. And they figured if it didn’t work out as a- a garage, they could always turn it into at least four to six apartments. But they never had to. No.
• 9:13
  INTERVIEWER: Uh... You also said that there were a lot of garages and a lot of uh...
• 9:19
  INTERVIEWER: car gendered buildings in that area. So I just want to know typically during that time, were there a lot of cars in Winter Park?
• 9:28
  JOHN BOWMAN: Uh... In winter we had lots of cars.
• 9:32
  INTERVIEWER: Wow.
• 9:33
  JOHN BOWMAN: More cars than we did in the summer, because most of the- a lot of the people that uh... just wintered in Winter Park, it was- what it always was before, people wintered in Winter Park. Population back in 1927 was 500 in Winter Park in the- and in the-- that was in the summer. In the winter, it was 5,000. Though uh... they-- We weren’t all busy- we weren’t awful busy in the summertime until after uh...we got uh...the Cape-- Cape Canaveral when they started building missiles and even- even in Orlando at that time when Martin and Company came in, it was late ‘50’s. Then it changed, because we had more people living here year around.
• 10:19
  JOHN BOWMAN: And uh...so, in fact, Mr. Vaughn Braun, the guy with the rockets, they used to trade there at our place. Uh... I wasn’t there at the time, but he did. I wished they’d have kept those buildings. I couldn’t keep everything.
• 10:35
  INTERVIEWER: Uh... I have another question I want to ask about the Ahik family. Am I pronouncing that right, again?
• 10:43
  JOHN BOWMAN: Uhm-uhm. Ahik, right.
• 10:45
  INTERVIEWER: Uh... How was Andy Ahik? How was he like?
• 10:49
  JOHN BOWMAN: Oh, he was a great guy. In fact, it was uh... two brothers. They married sisters. Sisters lived in uh...Georgia. Trying to think of the name of the town. I’ll think of it in a minute. But they were from- they were from Georgia, the- the two sisters were. But the Ahiks were born here -- the two brothers, in 19- I don’t know when.
• 11:16
  JOHN BOWMAN: But they were born out by uh...Butler Plaza That used to be Winter Park.
• 11:21
  INTERVIEWER: Oh, okay.
• 11:23
  JOHN BOWMAN: Still got- people that live out in that area still have a Winter Park address, but it’s actually in Seminole County. But it used to be in- in Winter Park.
• 11:36
  INTERVIEWER: When did it-- Sorry, not to jump off. But when did Winter Park- when did that break off in Winter Park?
• 11:44
  JOHN BOWMAN: When- when. In 20- ’29 when the crash came and they pulled the- city pulled in their- their area.
• 11:52
  INTERVIEWER: Okay.
• 11:53
  JOHN BOWMAN: Because it was-- Well, even- even when I moved out in- where I live on North uh... Lakemont and Magnolia Avenue, uh... it was- I lived on Lakemont, and it was a dirt street in Northlake- not north. It was dirt for 10 years--
• 12:11
  INTERVIEWER: All right.
• 12:12
  JOHN BOWMAN: -- after I moved there in ’58.
• 12:15
  INTERVIEWER: Who were the Ellis family?
• 12:18
  JOHN BOWMAN: Ellis?
• 12:19
  INTERVIEWER: Uhm-uhm.
• 12:20
  JOHN BOWMAN: Well, let’s see, there’s Guy, and I’m trying to think of what his brother’s name is. I knew him, too. He was- he- he ran the taxi service--
• 12:33
  INTERVIEWER: Okay.
• 12:34
  JOHN BOWMAN: Uh... Western Union. And his wife ran a messenger service here in Winter Park.
• 12:41
  INTERVIEWER: Okay.
• 12:43
  JOHN BOWMAN: And I’m trying to think. Their last address was uh...on Hyman or [inaudible].
• 12:48
  JOHN BOWMAN: But I’m trying to think what the name- the address was. It was just down around the corner from where you go across the railroad tracks to the fire station, I think-- No, back this way-- No, fire station [inaudible]. And they ran the taxi service. There was another man had a taxi service in Winter Park, too. Uh... Oh, I shouldn’t- shouldn't have said that until I knew what-- uhm... Well, I’ll think of it in a minute.
• 13:23
  INTERVIEWER: All right.
• 13:25
  JOHN BOWMAN: Uh... He had a taxi service. Uhm... But we’ll think of something else to talk about.
• 13:31
  INTERVIEWER: All right. Dealing with public transportation, how were sources of mass transportation, such as buses? How were- how did they run in Winter Park during, let me say, about the 1950’s?
• 13:42
  JOHN BOWMAN: As far as I know, there- there wasn’t any unless it was a Greyhound bus.
• 13:48
  INTERVIEWER: That was all?
• 13:50
  JOHN BOWMAN: In other words, we didn’t have bus service that I know of. They- They tried trolleys and stuff like that, but they never worked out. Uh... It’d work for a while and then people got- they didn’t want to use them and so they just did away with them.
• 14:08
  JOHN BOWMAN: But the Greyhound Bus Depot was at the corner of uh... Pennsylvania and Orange right across the street from where the pub is, right there where you come across the railroad tracks, it was a bus station that was on the backside of the City Service gas station, the Union Oil. It was a service station at that time.
• 14:29
  INTERVIEWER: All right. So what would you say was the reason for that line or the trolleys popular, is it because people had their own cars or--
• 14:38
  JOHN BOWMAN: Once people got more cars, then they- they just didn’t use- use the bus service. In other words, even the bus service today doesn’t make any money, I don’t think.
• 14:49
  JOHN BOWMAN: It’s all subsidized somehow or another. They can’t make it no more than the trains can make it. So people got- people got cars- everybody used cars, doesn’t cost- doesn’t make any difference what the gas cost.
• 15:02
  INTERVIEWER: Uhm... You brought up trains. So with trains, when was the Amtrak rail system introduced-- Well, let’s retract. Prior to Amtrak, what was there before?
• 15:15
  JOHN BOWMAN: Oh, uhm... can’t remember. Well, we had two trains here that-- Well, I don’t know whether the trains- I don’t think the Beacon Railroad was running when I- when I came here, it might have been, but I’m not sure. I’d ridden on it. I rode on the- one of the uh... construction- uh... well, we used to call them pop cars that rode on the railroad. There was Atlantic Coastline, uhm-uhm, yeah, that came- came into Winter Park.
• 15:58
  JOHN BOWMAN: Of course, I like trains anyway. I like to ride trains.
• 16:04
  JOHN BOWMAN: I’ll ride the train if I- steam trains especially, anytime I find a steam train to ride.
• 16:12
  JOHN BOWMAN: Uh... People are funny. Some people want to know, well, how- what-- In other words, uh...they got- uh...if they- say they went down and bought a- a Cadillac, what does it get for gas mileage? If you’re going to buy a Cadillac, you shouldn’t have to ask how much it cost to run it. Doesn’t make sense, but that’s people. Uh... Winter Park has changed some and [inaudible].
• 16:48
  INTERVIEWER: All right. Can you tell me how far the Atlantic Coastline ran in Florida and if it’s still running today?
• 16:56
  JOHN BOWMAN: That runs today, but it- it never used to go to Tampa. People in Winter Park used to take the train to Orlando to shop and then they’d turn around and come back-- they’d go to the movies and turn around and come back.
• 17:14
  INTERVIEWER: All right. Can you describe how the historical- sorry, the Winter Park historical building was before when it was running as a- I think it was a freight train?
• 17:26
  JOHN BOWMAN: It was the Railway Express. Uh... That was just- that was a separate unit from the train, I understand. I think that’s something my grandpa told me. And he worked for- for them in New York and it was separate. And also I think they carried the mail.
• 17:44
  JOHN BOWMAN: I know how it worked up there. The mailman- or the person- person from the Post Office couldn’t take the mail off of the train. And the person who was the Railway Express person had to take it off the train and give it to him. He couldn’t take it off.
• 18:04
  JOHN BOWMAN: That was union rules for that. The union ruled. ‘Cause my grandfather used to have to go there when one of the trains came through and I imagine it worked the same way any of them that- uh... Like, on weekends, why, they had to go down and somebody had to be there to take the mail off the train. And that’s the way it worked for the Railway Express.
• 18:27
  JOHN BOWMAN: But it was uh...a good way to get stuff across the country. But it was- I think it was an independent- or a division within itself of the railroad. It was connected to the railroad, but I don’t think the railroad owned it. I think it was owned by Railway Express.
• 18:44
  INTERVIEWER: Okay.
• 18:45
  JOHN BOWMAN: But they just did away with it. And this building sat empty for quite a while until it was taken over by the city and turned into a farmer’s market and it’s been going ever since-- I don’t know, 10, 12, 15 years, something like that -- must be at least that.
• 19:02
  INTERVIEWER: Did they deconstruct the building and rebuild it or--
• 19:05
  JOHN BOWMAN: No. No--
• 19:07
  INTERVIEWER: -- is this the same original--
• 19:09
  JOHN BOWMAN: -- the same- same building--
• 19:11
  INTERVIEWER: Wow.
• 19:12
  JOHN BOWMAN: -- didn’t change it. In other words, they just-- If you go next door, you can see the big doors where they opened up for the- took the freight in and out from the rail cars. Yeah, the building hasn’t changed any other than the canopy in the back.
• 19:28
  JOHN BOWMAN: But basically the building is the same as it was when I came to town. That’s been almost 50 years ago, pretty close to it.
• 19:37
  INTERVIEWER: All right. Uh... as you can see, they’re building-- Winter Park is getting more- more exclusive, more extravagant and they’re building a million-dollar condo off of Interlock, Inc. Uh...How do you feel with those million-dollar condos, trains running by- loud trains running by every time? What’s your view on that?
• 19:58
  JOHN BOWMAN: Well, what it does is the people who are retired who lived in Winter Park for a good many years, they’re pricing them out of Winter Park. Because houses-- My house cost 16.5 [$16,500], City of Winter Park, corner lot. The house across the street that was built after mine was sold- sold by the lady that bought it, for 197 [$197,000].
• 20:28
  JOHN BOWMAN: The man who bought it gutted it then put it back on the market at 315 [$315,000].
• 20:36
  JOHN BOWMAN: The one across the street they want- at one time wanted 450 [$450,000] for it. They finally rented it, they haven’t sold it yet. They have one down the street that’s about 3-something.
• 20:52
  JOHN BOWMAN: So, really by the time you figure the taxes for people in Winter Park that are retired and have been retired for a good many years, their income doesn’t go up. It goes down.
• 21:06
  JOHN BOWMAN: And so consequently, I couldn’t afford- myself I couldn’t afford to go out and buy another house, even if I sold mine. Of course, I can’t move anyway, I got too much stuff.
• 21:19
  JOHN BOWMAN: I collect- I collect junk.
• 21:21
  INTERVIEWER: All right.
• 21:22
  JOHN BOWMAN: Uhm-uhm.
• 21:24
  INTERVIEWER: What type of junk do you collect?
• 21:27
  JOHN BOWMAN: Motorcycles, tools, magazines, all sorts of stuff, just to- why, I don’t know. I just- I like stuff and I collect it.
• 21:37
  INTERVIEWER: And knowing that you’re a married man, how does your wife feel on your collection?
• 21:44
  JOHN BOWMAN: Too much stuff, she says. She doesn’t know what she’s going to do. I said, well, we’re not going to worry about it. We’ll let our daughter worry about it when we’re through with it. I don’t plan on moving out of Winter Park. I’m going to stay there if it’s at all possible until I’m through with it and then my daughter can take care of the stuff.
• 22:11
  INTERVIEWER: So can you describe your relationship with your wife to me?
• 22:15
  JOHN BOWMAN: Oh, boy, good thing she’s not here. Uh... We get along all right. We’ve been married 50 years this year. This will be 50 years. Now, one-- oh, her name?
• 22:27
  JOHN BOWMAN: Sylvia A. And we met down here in 1955. I knew her brother and her sister-in-law.
• 22:33
  JOHN BOWMAN: I knew her sister-in-law before I knew any of the rest of them. And, uh...I don’t know, we just-- I came down here in the Service and we decided to get married. Went back to New York and got married and came back here to live. I didn’t even have a job.
• 22:52
  JOHN BOWMAN: Didn’t even know what I was going to do and didn’t even know where to start, really.
• 22:59
  JOHN BOWMAN: So I got a job- I went to a placement-- forgot what it cost. It seems like it was 25 percent of your wages for the first month is what they took for their fee for finding you a job. And they wanted-- In other words, the man asked me, if I brought my car in, could you fix it? I said, what’s wrong with it? Well, he didn’t know. I said, well, if you don’t know, I can’t fix it then, if you can’t tell me what’s wrong with it or what your problem is. And that was the man that interviewed me. So I went to work for Dick’s Auto Electric in Orlando on the corner of Washington and Summerland.
• 23:44
  JOHN BOWMAN: Summerland Street was the longest street, was at one time, in-- North and South Street in Orlando. It ran all the way from Marks Street to Kaley Avenue, straight through it.
• 24:02
  JOHN BOWMAN: Until they redid Orange Avenue and went around the lake, why, it was the longest street in-- North South Street in Orlando.
• 24:15
  INTERVIEWER: In constructing the streets, how long did they take?
• 24:21
  JOHN BOWMAN: Well, see, they started widening Route 50 uh... right after I came here-- west, not east but west. I think it went to two-- four-lane highway going west out towards-- it’ll be going towards Pine Hills-- where Pine Hills is now. And uh... that was about the only streets that they widened. They did change Orange Avenue and some of those but not- not that much that I can remember. Uh... Just like Mill Street-- Mill Street was a thump-thump street. Did you know that?
• 25:09
  INTERVIEWER: Sorry?
• 25:10
  JOHN BOWMAN: It was a thump-thump street.
• 25:14
  INTERVIEWER: What’s that?
• 25:16
  JOHN BOWMAN: When you drive a car down, you can hear it go, thump, thump, thump, thump, when you go across those-- Oh, man, we used to have a lot of- a lot of problems with people that had just moved down here and got on Mill Street, it was something else.
• 25:34
  JOHN BOWMAN: They’d be into the shop wanting to know what’s wrong with their car. We had to explain to them that it went thump, thump and it wasn’t anything- wasn’t anything wrong with the car, it’s just the way the street was made with thump, thump.
• 25:49
  JOHN BOWMAN: But uh...Winter Park, well, it’s- it's changed but not all that much. In other words, it’s changing more- it’s changing faster in the last uh...five to 10 years than it did when I first moved here.
• 26:02
  INTERVIEWER: So how was it when you first moved like, the environment, the atmosphere?
• 26:07
  JOHN BOWMAN: Pretty quiet, not too much going on. Park Avenue was always Park Avenue.
• 26:14
  JOHN BOWMAN: And uh... it’s pretty much the same way as it was, small shops, no- no big shops.
• 26:23
  JOHN BOWMAN: Uh... The hotel was still here. But there used to be a- uh...the Marcatessen used to be in there, too. They sold meats, had a big meat- good size meat market. And uh...used to be a TV repair on- on that street. I’m trying to think-- Roan [ph], I think, Roan TV. Now he’s over on Fairbanks now. But he was on Park Avenue.
• 26:55
  JOHN BOWMAN: And, uh... well, down where the Post Office is and that’s [inaudible]. That used to be where the uh... Gentilly uh... Fruit Packing Company was. They had a big pair of scales out there, drive on- drive a truck on it and weigh them. That was the-- I don’t know what happened to that thing, he took it out or somebody. Used to pack- pack fruit and- years ago. In fact, it was still- the factory was still there when I came here in- in the ‘50’s, ’58, ’59. Because I remember I’d drive a double trailer and I had to have it weighed some place [inaudible] had to take it over there and get it weighed for the license.
• 27:41
  INTERVIEWER: Okay. What did you do for fun?
• 27:44
  JOHN BOWMAN: Fun? Oh, rode motorcycles. I’ve been riding motorcycles since 1947, uh...
• 27:48
  JOHN BOWMAN: most of the time, except when I was in Service. Then I came back and when I moved here, I bought a used Cushman motor scooter because my wife- at the time when I moved- when we moved to Winter Park, why, she worked- she worked in Orlando. So that meant that we had to either buy another car, and we couldn’t afford that, so I bought a scooter.
• 28:14
  JOHN BOWMAN: Usually- I took- used to pick my daughter up from kindergarten. She went to Mrs. Achenbach’s School. Kindergarten, I think, first grade she went just one year. And I used to pick her up at noon on the scooter. She’d ride on the gas tank and I’d take her to her grandmother’s over on uh... Carlson Avenue, then her mother would go by and pick her up and bring her home. Her mother would drop her off at kindergarten in the morning and then I’d pick her up at noon and take her to her grandmother’s and she would stay there- stay with her grandmother until my wife got off work and then she’d bring her home.
• 28:58
  INTERVIEWER: Okay. What’s your daughter’s name? And describe the relationship you had with her.
• 29:04
  JOHN BOWMAN: Daughter-- My daughter’s name is Maribeth, one word, M-a-r-i-b-e-t-h. That's the way it's spelled. Maribeth, now she- the town now she lives in [inaudible]. We get along great. I call her up on the cell phone and I ask her if she got it in her pocket but she never- doesn’t answer it fast enough. Oh, we get along all right. We get up to see her two or three times a year.
• 29:32
  JOHN BOWMAN: But-- uh... And I have one grandson, Troy. He’s- he’s a card, he’s a piece of cake, I’ll tell you, that boy is. He doesn’t know what he wants to do. But he may come around one of these days. He ought to. He’s about 20- 22 or 23 years old. Maybe he’ll settle down and do all right.
• 30:00
  INTERVIEWER: Did your family also- your parents did they also move from New York to Winter Park?
• 30:08
  JOHN BOWMAN: They moved from New York down here. And uh... my dad worked at uh...the Jersey Doug Dairy, which used to be over on 441, just north of uh... Lee Road where the- that’s where he worked for a while. Then he- he went from there, he went out to one of the packing places in Winter- Winter Garden and he ran the boiler. He was the only one knew how to run one. They couldn’t find one. He ran one up north and so he went out there and did that for, I don’t know, three or four years and then he retired. He had emphysema real bad and so it finally- he was on a- he died in ’71 and my mother, too.
• 31:09
  JOHN BOWMAN: She died two years after he did. He had emphysema and she had cancer. So I’m doing pretty good. I’ll be 74 June the 1st.
• 31:22
  INTERVIEWER: Well, congratulations on that.
• 31:25
  JOHN BOWMAN: But I still ride motorcycles though. In fact, uh... I hope to go out west and go up Pikes Peak again.
• 31:37
  JOHN BOWMAN: I’ve been up there five times already so- six. I’ve been up six. I’ve been up once in a car, five times motorcycle. I want to go again, ride a motorcycle up.
• 31:48
  INTERVIEWER: Have you been interested in bike week?
• 31:51
  JOHN BOWMAN: I used to, but it- it got too big. Uh... And another thing was I used to go over the- on Sunday for the 200 miles, did that for, oh, three or four years.
• 32:04
  JOHN BOWMAN: I had a friend that raced the 200- in the 200 mile that was there. And uh...
• 32:10
  JOHN BOWMAN: that [inaudible] racing, why, I quit going and I haven’t been over there probably in the last 10 or 15 years twice I guess, just to-- I’m more interested in older motorcycles, antiques. I’ve got 13.
• 32:23
  INTERVIEWER: Okay. What was your first motorcycle?
• 32:25
  JOHN BOWMAN: I built it out of a bicycle, put a motor on it. I took the- took the motorcycle frame and I cut it all apart, put it back the way I wanted it and had to weld it back together and put an engine in it and I used to ride it. Man, I had fun with that- that bicycle. But it was- it was too high off the ground. I didn’t like it. I built a scooter after that, three-speed transmission, same engine. Man, I rode that thing for miles and miles. And then I- then I bought a car.
• 33:03
  INTERVIEWER: Which was?
• 33:04
  JOHN BOWMAN: 1929 Model A. I gave $25 for it. I got it home and it- and the next morning it wouldn’t start. Come to find out the battery wasn’t any good. So I had to start over again. My dad had to buy me a new battery and then I had to pay him back, so he said.
• 33:24
  JOHN BOWMAN: I had to make the money to pay it back. And I drove that back and forth to school for about a year or two and then I decided I didn’t need a car. Then I bought a 19- then I sold it. I remember I was out driving my dad’s car one- one weekend and I saw this nice little coupe, Chevrolet, what they called a business coupe that had a wide-- In other words, it only had one seat in it, but you could put three people in it, three- they called it a three-passenger coupe. And so I decided I wanted that. But I didn’t have enough money to buy it. I put my money in the bank, but that wasn’t enough, so I had to borrow some more money to finance the next car I had. And then I went in the Service in 1951.
• 34:16
  INTERVIEWER: All right.
• 34:17
  JOHN BOWMAN: I was in during the Korean conflict, stationed in Japan for a couple of years-- Texas.
• 34:26
  INTERVIEWER: Were you relieved when you were done or--
• 34:30
  JOHN BOWMAN: Well, yeah, I- I signed a contract for four years. And when the four years was up, I was ready to get out. And uh... that’s all I did in the Service was automotive work, so that and ground power in Japan, that’s what I took care of was ground power for starting aircraft or running shops or whatever they had to have extra power for or auxiliary power to run the lights on the base or- uh... usually at the air base, why, they- if they lost power, why, they would shut the air field down.
• 35:22
  JOHN BOWMAN: But they- they’d still run the radar and then the radar company had their own power and teletype and I think the big machine shop they had to have its auxiliary power all the time, so the Japanese couldn’t fly in there [inaudible]. And they only had about 90- 90 volts instead of 110.
• 35:45
  INTERVIEWER: Okay.
• 35:46
  JOHN BOWMAN: Things didn’t work so good.
• 35:49
  INTERVIEWER: I want to jump back to the garage work back with the Atkin family. What cars did you work on?
• 35:58
  JOHN BOWMAN: All cars, it didn’t make any difference what it was, cars or trucks. We took all brands. In other words, all- didn’t make any difference what it was. That’s all I ever did.
• 36:14
  INTERVIEWER: So I guess back then, there was only Ford and GM or--
• 36:20
  JOHN BOWMAN: Oh, we had- no, we had- we had DeSotos, Chryslers, Plymouths, Pontiacs, Buicks, Oldsmobiles. Uh... Then you got into Mercury, Cadillac, very few LaSalles or Lincolns at the- then we had the Lincoln Continental, they were in the ‘40’s and ‘50’s, not a lot of them but some of them. And, as I say, general maintenance on all of them.
• 36:54
  JOHN BOWMAN: Mr. A started out in 1931. He used to work for Cadillac and he told me that he had- he had to take care of new customers, new cars and, of course, regular customers and he thought he was doing the work of four people, but he was only getting paid for one.
• 37:16
  JOHN BOWMAN: So he decided he would go in business for himself, so he did in ’31. And, of course, his father was in the livery business prior to that here in Winter Park.
• 37:30
  INTERVIEWER: What was your favorite car back then?
• 37:34
  JOHN BOWMAN: Well, I drove- I drove a Ford, 1950 Ford. And- but I wouldn’t-- In other words, it didn’t make any difference to me. Cars- cars had to do with people. In other words, some people would buy a Ford or a Chevrolet and they’d drive it and that’s all they ever did to it, never took care of it and that was the worst car they ever owned.
• 37:58
  JOHN BOWMAN: So if they went and bought a Ford, why, it was the same way.
• 38:03
  JOHN BOWMAN: But if you bought a car and took care of it, it’ll last you a long time.
• 38:09
  JOHN BOWMAN: And, of course, even- even today cars didn’t improve that much. Even- Even back in the‘50’s, I don’t think you’d start out from Winter Park and- and- for a dinner date in Jacksonville and you’d start out to go to Jacksonville at 5 o’clock in the afternoon, no way. Didn’t have the roads.
• 38:28
  JOHN BOWMAN: I know A told me when they first used to go back and forth between Florida and Georgia, years- in other words, that was probably back in the ‘20’s, it took them all day to get from here to Tallahassee. They weren’t out of Florida and driving the whole day. That’s how bad the roads were. They didn’t- they didn’t have motels and hotels and all that stuff between here and no gas stations neither one. So it was- it was a- it was from their place to where they went in Georgia, I guess it was two days- two-day ride [inaudible], two days at least. [inaudible]. Of course, today you don’t think-- In other words, at 5 o’clock in the afternoon, you go to Jacksonville, just like you- you probably drive from Miami, same thing. But 50 to 60 years ago you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t think of it.
• 39:28
  JOHN BOWMAN: Cars- cars last a lot longer than they did. Of course, they go a lot faster, too and they still hold up. But you certainly have to take care of them. And I think that- I think people took better care- well, not people did, but they were taken care of better because they had service stations. We don’t have the service station anymore. Very few of them, there’s very few service stations as such. Most of them are just- all there is, is gas and you pump your own. There’s nobody to check your car. I mean, other than maybe-- In fact, you used to go into a gas station or an indoor service station and they’d- just to get gas and they’d- if you wanted, they’d check the water and oil and tires, cleaned the windshield. They don’t do it anymore and gas costs just as much as it did or more- more than it did- does now-- In other words, there it was less money, probably about- probably they’re making about the same amount of profit on gasoline the service- whosever is selling it, not much more than they did and do all the services.
• 40:44
  JOHN BOWMAN: So-- But just like I say, people don’t take care of their cars for the [inaudible].
• 40:52
  JOHN BOWMAN: Then when it breaks, they’re [inaudible]. Yeah. Had a lot of fun working at cars, I- I enjoyed it, because there’s always something different each day.
• 41:06
  INTERVIEWER: Okay. Do you feel because of the economy- economy of today that’s why you don’t see a lot of family-owned garages or is- is America just too busy to take the time?
• 41:24
  JOHN BOWMAN: No. It has to do with warranty. Manufacturer guarantees it for, what?
• 41:32
  INTERVIEWER: Ten years.
• 41:34
  JOHN BOWMAN: Well, 10 years or so many thousand miles, seven years or 70,000 miles. So they- most people go back to the deal- dealership to have it done because it’s under warranty. There’s only one problem, if it isn’t under warranty, they don’t fix it either, I found out. Things-- But uh... it just has to do with the economy, period. In other words, it’s- it’s just- just the idea that the manufacturer takes care of the car now.
• 42:10
  INTERVIEWER: Okay. I want to branch off from cars. And actually I want to talk about the diversity of Winter Park. How would you say the foundation was back then as social, racial?
• 42:25
  JOHN BOWMAN: Well, had Little Georgia, Carolina Avenue that- they called it Little Georgia when I first came here.
• 42:32
  INTERVIEWER: Why is that?
• 42:33
  JOHN BOWMAN: Why is that? Whites lived down one side of the street, colored lived down the other side of the street. That’s right, right over here. That was Carolina Avenue.
• 42:45
  JOHN BOWMAN: That was called Little Georgia, whites on one side, colored on the other.
• 42:50
  INTERVIEWER: So would you equate that to the railroad now, the other side of the--
• 42:56
  JOHN BOWMAN: Well, yeah, because-- In other words, it always was the- in other words, that’s where all of the colored people lived in- in that section over there where the square is over here, they all- they all lived there, have for years.
• 43:13
  JOHN BOWMAN: They started out there was-- In other words, the only- that was the only place they had to live uh... was on the other side of the tracks. But it’s getting so they don’t have that anymore. They’re taken over by- because the businesses back in there. There wasn’t too many over in there. There was the uh... funeral home was there, barbershop, popular restaurants in that area. But now there’s- it’s been taken over. Although, the barbershop is still there and it’s operated by, oh, dear, Alonzo Roberts or Robertson. Well, Mayonnaise is his wife, she’s the one that uh... is the police lady- traffic lady, Mayonnaise. Her name is Melody, but they called her Mayonnaise. They couldn’t- Melody, she’s a character.
• 44:17
  JOHN BOWMAN: I- I’ve run into her more than once. Mayonnaise, she- she’s quite a gal. And Orlando Roberts, he was uh...he was a barber and also drove the school bus and so did, oh, the guy he worked for. They both drove the school buses.
• 44:41
  JOHN BOWMAN: And then there was the funeral home. He was- he was a character. He was a character, because we had a colored fella working with us, Chippy. Uh... And every time he’d see him, he’d say, got one ripe for you, ‘cause- oh, he and uh... oh, dear, I’m trying to think of the other fellow that was there. Chippy was one of them and- and- yeah, they weren’t going to- they didn’t want anything to do with funeral cars. No, uh-huh.
• 45:19
  JOHN BOWMAN: Oh, dear, I’m trying to think of the other fellow’s name that was working for him.
• 45:26
  JOHN BOWMAN: He worked for Rex Singleton, Singleton’s Gulf over there on the corner where Rollins Bookstore is. That used to be a Gulf station years ago. I got the- I got the- that’s where the rag boat [ph] had come from that I got.
• 45:47
  INTERVIEWER: You just brought up Rollins College. How did Rollins College affect the City of Winter Park back then? What was their influences to Winter Park?
• 46:03
  JOHN BOWMAN: Well, I- I really didn’t have much to do with Rollins College, I mean, as far as the college was concerned. Although, we used to do some work for Rollins College.
• 46:25
  JOHN BOWMAN: I really don’t know. It’s a-- How would you put it. They usually got what they wanted.
• 46:36
  JOHN BOWMAN: And if they uh... really didn’t want something, it didn’t materialize either, if they were against it, whatever it was. Or if they wanted something, they usually got what they wanted, because they- they brought a lot of…
• 47:01
  INTERVIEWER: I remember the last thing you just stated was that Rollins got what they wanted.
• 47:08
  JOHN BOWMAN: Well, usually they did. I mean, and I wouldn’t say that they always did, but usually the city- city fathers went along with what Rollins College wanted because Rollins College brought a lot of- a lot of people and money to help further Winter Park.
• 47:29
  JOHN BOWMAN: I know Mr. A went to Rollins College. I didn’t know that until he died. It was in the paper that he- that he uh...was an alumnus of Rollins College. Now, his son didn’t go to college that I know of. He was in the Navy during World War II.
• 47:51
  JOHN BOWMAN: But, uh...I don’t know-- Oh, yeah. Of course, Rollins College is- in other words, is beneficial to Winter Park, always has been. So- but uh... that’s the way I looked at it, anyway. Might not have been right but that’s my opinion.
• 48:10
  INTERVIEWER: With that being said, I guess you could say Rollins College played in a lot of political standards of the City of Winter Park. But can you comment on the- on the city politics in those days; who ran the town; who was on top?
• 48:28
  JOHN BOWMAN: Oh, well, they-- In other words, the city fathers did and most of them were old- older. Let’s see, Allen Trevean [ph] was one, of course, we got later ones now.
• 48:41
  JOHN BOWMAN: Mr. Terry Hotard [ph]. Uh... I’m trying to think if there was another one. I know Allen Trevean was for quite a while, while I was- when I first came here. But I’m trying to think. I don’t know who was after that. But I did know Allen, still do. In other words, I see him once and a while. And he ran a construction business and then he was up in Tallahassee and then-- But uh...more or less the City of Winter Park just- just kind of went along. Uh... Of course, we got a lot of young people in here now and they want to change everything. And uh...the uh...older ones, like myself, we don’t like change.
• 49:29
  JOHN BOWMAN: But I guess we’re going to have to go along with some of it.
• 49:35
  JOHN BOWMAN: They’re taking over the power company. They’re going to sell their own power, but I didn’t vote for it. Most of the older people didn’t either. I don’t think the city can- I don’t think the city will come out the way they think they’re going to. The people who wanted it aren’t going to get what they thought they were, I don’t think. Maybe they will.
• 50:01
  JOHN BOWMAN: Time will tell. But they’ve been on 9th Street now for about a week and a half changing power lines, though, to get power so that it’s cut off from the rest- the rest of the people in the area that don’t- that don’t live in Winter Park. Now, they may live in Winter Park, they’ve been annexed, but they won’t be under Winter Park Power, I think, not all of them. Some of them are going to- still going to be with Progress Energy.
• 50:35
  JOHN BOWMAN: Politics is politics. It doesn’t make any difference what town you’re in or what- whether it’s a small city or a big city or what, there’s always controversy somewhere. They got a- they’ve got a mayor in Winter- in Orlando, why, I don’t know-- He says he made- he- he knows he made some mistakes, but he didn’t tell us which ones, he didn’t tell anybody which ones that he’d made. But maybe, as I say, in Winter Park I don’t have too much to do with politics. But I do, of course, belong to the Historical Society and have for, I don’t know, six or seven years, something like that since I’ve been retired. Been retired almost 14 years. I quit. I’d had enough of it.
• 51:40
  INTERVIEWER: [inaudible]. Pretty interested, this past year, you know, we’ve just received four hurricanes with not any national-- I just want to know were there any black national disasters back then?
• 51:52
  JOHN BOWMAN: No, only- in 1960 was the last time that a hurricane ever came into Florida and I wasn’t home for that one. I was only home for Charlie this time. We left town after Charlie, after- a week after they got everything back together again and then here comes- the other three come through. I- Ivan and uh... Frances and-- What was the other one?
• 52:20
  JOHN BOWMAN: I can’t remember. But I wasn’t home- I was only home for Charlie. And I took off and went to uh...Wisconsin and so- Davenport, Iowa and Wisconsin and back home again. So by the time I got back home, why, everything was all over with. I’d call back, my house was still here and it rained for quite a good while, but didn’t have any problems.
• 52:49
  INTERVIEWER: All right. I want to get to know a little bit about your community. Was it a tight-knit community and what type of roles were played within the community?
• 53:01
  JOHN BOWMAN: You mean, as far as the City of Winter Park?
• 53:06
  INTERVIEWER: Uh... well, more or less let’s just break it down to your neighborhood and--
• 53:12
  JOHN BOWMAN: Oh, my neighborhood? Oh, my neighborhood’s been fine. I mean--
• 53:17
  INTERVIEWER: The same exact people?
• 53:20
  JOHN BOWMAN: Well, not same exact, it’s changed. There’s still some that have been there longer than I have, probably, not very many. It’s more or less just working people, more- some of them are still- are retired, but- that came in there and moved in and raised their families and just stayed.
• 53:46
  JOHN BOWMAN: But it’s getting more and more because they’re- they’re buying our houses and tearing them down and building bigger ones. Figure that my house was built in ’58, other houses in the neighborhood that had been built in ’58 they’re tearing them down then putting up brand, new big ones, two-stories, story and a half, quite a- it’s a change. I guess we’ll just have to go along with it.
• 54:21
  INTERVIEWER: With that, do you think these large buildings or these eyesores are taking away from the historical part of Winter Park, the natural beauty of Winter Park?
• 54:33
  JOHN BOWMAN: Uh... they change-- As far as Winter Park downtown, yeah, it has in some respects. But the city fathers have pretty well kept it under control where it’s about the same as it was. They have businesses on ground floors and they have apartments and other things on second floors. They’ve limited the height of buildings, about seven stories, I think, something like that. I mean, I know there’s a limit on the height that the buildings can be in the City of Winter Park. So they’re trying to keep it under control and keep it like it always has been.
• 55:21
  JOHN BOWMAN: There’s a change in it somewhat because they are building bigger buildings or taller ones. Uh... And the neighborhoods, why, as I said before, they’re just- they’re pricing the old people out of their homes. I mean, they just-- In other words, the taxes and all that seems to go up, but it doesn’t make- I don’t think it makes any difference where they go, where you move to, unless you move way out in the country. And if you do, why, the poor fellows that live in the country, while the city folks have gone out there and now they’re in the city and things change. They can’t have their pigs and horses and cows, all that sort of stuff that they had years ago, because the roosters wake people up and they don’t like it. I don’t know. It may-- I’m glad I’m on the downhill side.
• 56:20
  JOHN BOWMAN: I’m going the other way now. I hope not too soon, but that’s the way I look at it.
• 56:28
  INTERVIEWER: Do you mind if I can have your address, please?
• 56:33
  JOHN BOWMAN: 1791 Magnolia Avenue, Winter Park. Area code is 32789. Telephone number?
• 56:39
  INTERVIEWER: Oh, sure.
• 56:40
  JOHN BOWMAN: Ah, 407/644-0927.
• 56:42
  INTERVIEWER: All right. I’m pretty interested in understanding the landscape of Winter Park. But what do you feel is the most distinctive feature about Winter Park? And, you know what, let’s break it on from in the early days, what was the most distinctive feature in Winter Park and now, today what do you feel is the most distinctive feature?
• 57:11
  JOHN BOWMAN: Uhm... Quaint, hasn’t changed that much, I don’t think, over the years.
• 57:17
  JOHN BOWMAN: I mean, businesses have changed and- but they’re basically the same, small, small shops- I mean, in downtown Winter Park. Uh... Outside, why, of course, as I said before, they- in the residential part, why, it’s changing from small houses to big ones. But other than that, my- it’s still basically the same. It’s still- still a small town. Population, what, about 20, 23 or 24,000, something like that, I think it is. So it hasn’t changed that much in the time I’ve been here.
• 57:58
  INTERVIEWER: I have a question for you, again. I’m not a native of Winter Park and this is my first time coming to Winter Park. But what have I- what I’ve noticed there is that- there’s a separation, we did talk about this before, with the railroad track, on the, I guess you can say the--
• 58:16
  JOHN BOWMAN: West side.
• 58:17
  INTERVIEWER: -- the west side of the railroad track has been the more deprived area of Winter Park, I believe. And the east side is the more lucrative and more socially elites, if we want to put folks in that socially elite standards of that. Why do you think it’s like that and why isn’t it not being balanced out and why- you know, are we--
• 58:39
  JOHN BOWMAN: Well--
• 58:40
  INTERVIEWER: I mean, it stemmed from back then and it’s continuing.
• 58:44
  JOHN BOWMAN: It’s continuing on. The only- the only problem is, though, that the- the elite that used to live on the east side of the tracks are moving to the west side of the tracks, which is- which is the- the people that have lived there all their life.
• 59:02
  JOHN BOWMAN: In other words, probably second, third, fourth generations have lived on the west side of the tracks in Winter Park. I think they’re happy, really, if they’d just leave them alone. That’s the way I look at it.
• 59:16
  JOHN BOWMAN: I mean, I- I feel sorry for those people that have been over there for years.
• 59:22
  JOHN BOWMAN: I don’t know whether ole’ Sugar still lives over there or not. Oh, boy, that was neat driving down the street going through uh... New York Avenue down through there and I heard this- I was taking him back out to Mrs. Gard’s [ph] and I think that’s where we were going, we were going that way somewhere to take him back to wherever he worked or something and some little gal was walking along the street and she said, hi, Sugar, what you doing. Oh, boy. So after that, I always called him Sugar. I can’t- I can’t even remember what his real name was.
• 1:00:02
  JOHN BOWMAN: And, yeah, in fact, Damen Clark, he bought a house over-- Well, he bought the house where the Chrysler Building is and had it moved over on Webster Avenue. He had five acres over there. It’s still there, the house is, I think. I don’t think it’s moved. And the children are still-- He had four or five kids, they still own it as far as I know.
• 1:00:33
  JOHN BOWMAN: But they moved the house-- Uh... Dallas Marler’s [ph] father moved that house, because I worked for him at one time after I worked with Mr. A, I went over and worked for Dallas.
• 1:00:49
  JOHN BOWMAN: Meat goods [inaudible].
• 1:00:51
  INTERVIEWER: All right. Mr. Bowman, I have one last question for you and I’m going to make this a good question. Let’s see.
• 1:01:02
  INTERVIEWER: You know, Winter Park is a city- well, that- what, I feel it’s not a big city on the map. When I talk to people about Winter Park, you know, no one knows what that is.
• 1:01:14
  INTERVIEWER: So I want to know when I’m describing Winter Park to other people, what do you think- I’ll just say, what should stand out and make Winter Park special than any other city in Florida?
• 1:01:26
  JOHN BOWMAN: Winter Park, City of Trees, it’s a city of small businesses, it’s a quaint city, has been from the start. It’s a- I think still quite a few people that live in Winter Park also winter- or summer up north. So it’s kind of- it’s not a really resort city anymore, in other words, what I mean to say, is a winter resort in a- in a sense, because it’s changed. Uh... People that live here and they- they like to live in Winter Park because it’s quiet and it’s got lots of trees. We got more trees than anybody else, I think. I like trees.
• 1:02:14
  JOHN BOWMAN: And the reason we moved to Winter Park was because my wife said that she wanted to live in the city. She was a city girl. She didn’t want to live in the country.
• 1:02:30
  JOHN BOWMAN: So we lived in Orlando for a while, but then we decided to buy. So we bought in Winter Park. And I haven’t- I’ve never regretted buying a house in Winter Park. I’ve been very- very satisfied with living in Winter Park.
• 1:02:49
  JOHN BOWMAN: But-- And people know where Winter Park is located if you tell them it’s near Disney World now. I’m only 25 miles from Disney World. Oh, well, that’s nice. And- but I think Europeans know more about Winter Park than the people in the United States, really. Why, I don’t know, but they do. They know where- they know where Winter Park is and they like to come to Winter Park.
• 1:03:21
  JOHN BOWMAN: They like to shop, although, Mrs. A used to go to Daytona to shop years ago.
• 1:03:28
  JOHN BOWMAN: Now, why, I don’t know. But they used to go- they like to go over there and shop.
• 1:03:36
  JOHN BOWMAN: Because it- I guess it must have had some different stores than Orlando, but they used to go to-- In other words, people, as I say, used to ride the train to Orlando.
• 1:03:52
  JOHN BOWMAN: Now, years ago, the only way you could get to Orlando was you had to go out Fairbanks to Clay Street and went down Clay, then you forged Lake Ivanhoe and then you hooked up with Orange Avenue. And the man- Mr. Ahik’s father that ran the livery, his horses were kept out around Ohio Avenue on Fairbanks Avenue. And Mr. A also planted the trees- helped plant the trees there in the park or some of the trees along Park Avenue, I know.
• 1:04:29
  JOHN BOWMAN: So those trees could be-- Well, he was almost 80 when he died. So he was a young man probably when they were planted. That’s been a good many years ago.
• 1:04:44
  INTERVIEWER: All right. Oh, before we conclude this interview, I want to know is there anything you would like to add? Is there anything you would like to add to--
• 1:04:56
  JOHN BOWMAN: [inaudible]. No, I don’t think so.
• 1:04:59
  INTERVIEWER: All right. Well, Mr. Bowman, I want to take the time again to thank you for this interview. It’s been a pleasure to meet you and I’m very excited that we had the opportunity to share the experience of Winter Park’s history and its longevity.
• 1:05:18
  INTERVIEWER: And this concludes our interview.