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Selects: How Personality Tests Work · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's me Josham. For this week's Select, I've
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: chosen our August twenty seventeen episode on personality tests. It
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: turns out that the vast majority of them, maybe all
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: of them, are scientifically faulty to at least some degree,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: and some of them are just outright made up. This
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: can be a real problem if they're being used to
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: diagnose you with a mental illness, or hire or fire
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: you or put you in jail, and that actually happens.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: So dig into this deceptively interesting episode and enjoy it.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: And I'm an EENFP.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: By the way, Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Charles w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there, and this
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: is Stuff you Should Know.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just a couple of.
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: It.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Jay says, I don't remember what I am. We've taken
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: it before. How Stuff Works hosted it years back. Do
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: you remember.
• 1:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we had, like many companies do, as you'll see,
• 1:11
  Speaker 5: we had when we were under Discovery's tender wing. They
• 1:16
  Speaker 5: paid for someone to come to our office and administer
• 1:20
  Speaker 5: the Myers Briggs personality test.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: At gunpoint.
• 1:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't remember, but I'm pretty sure I was
• 1:26
  Speaker 5: an E N F P.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I I don't remember what I was. I'll probably say
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: like three different things as we go through this one.
• 1:35
  Speaker 5: Like, just looking at it again, I'm pretty sure I
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: was an E N F P. Okay, P stands for
• 1:40
  Speaker 5: pisces right where.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's see extroverted intuitive. Okay, what is the F
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: stand for? Feeling pooper?
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: Is a spoiler? Yeah, feeling pooper.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: So we're what we're talking about. It sounds like we're
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: saying strings of letters. They actually do make sense if
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: you're familiar with what Chuck just said, the Myers Briggs
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: type inventory, which if you are in corporate America and
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: have been a part of corporate America for more than
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: probably three years, there's probably a pretty good likelihood that
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: you've taken the Myers Briggs type inventory for sure. Like
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: it's really widespread.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I saw something like thirteen percent of companies in America
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: use it. It's a lot.
• 2:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it was it eighty nine of the Fortune one
• 2:35
  Speaker 5: hundred use it.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Right, And then I saw another stat It was from
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: two thousand and one though, So I'm not sure how current.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: It is well sixteen years old, right, but they said
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: that the uh, I think British companies somewhere between ten
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: and forty percent of British companies use them, right, So
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I mean it's who knows. It's pretty wild, guess it
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: sounds like but.
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  Speaker 3: I wonder if they have their own It's.
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  Speaker 1: No, the Myers Briggs Test. They don't call it a test,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: as we'll see. Sure, but the test is, it's worldwide,
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  Speaker 1: it's translated into tons of different languages. They and no,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: it's it's the Myers Briggs Test. And there's tons of knockoffs.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Oh sure, there's tons of personality tests in general, which
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: really is the larger umbrella the Myers Briggs Test falls under.
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  Speaker 1: But it's probably the most famous of all time, at
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: least as far as pop culture goes.
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and we're going to hit on everything from Rorshak
• 3:35
  Speaker 5: to the Myers Briggs.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Sure, but we're going to hit on them.
• 3:39
  Speaker 5: But the MBT I definitely is more of the focus
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: of this one because of its ubiquity.
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  Speaker 1: Right, because most people know it, and because it's one
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: of the overlooked pastimes in the United States to take
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: pot shots at the Myers Briggs type inventory. Sure, it's fun.
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: So categorizing one's personality is nothing new, and that's what
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  Speaker 5: these tests aim to do for various reasons, which we'll
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: go over later. But going back, and this was a
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: Grabster article, correct, that's right, so you know it's good. Yeah,
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: And Grabster was just at our show in Toronto. Yeah,
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: he was for the second time.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: He stood up and like, did that victory shake?
• 4:25
  Speaker 6: Did he do that?
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: No?
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  Speaker 3: He did. No, I'm a big fan of that. That's
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: old school.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Oh it is. It's a good way to go. It
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: looks like you should be wearing those dolphin shorts just
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: having crossed the finish line and you doing that.
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: So yeah, it's nothing new trying to categorize personalities. Way
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: back in the day, I know, on our Grave Robbing
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: Live Grave Robbing episode, we talked about the four humors
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  Speaker 5: and we talked about him before before medical science was
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  Speaker 5: kind of a real thing.
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  Speaker 1: It was an early attempt.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, they talked about the four fluids or the four
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  Speaker 5: humors black bile, yellow bile, phlegm, and blood, uh and
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  Speaker 5: and imbalance in those will cause disease. But they were
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: also this is something I didn't know. These are also
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: linked to corresponding personality types.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So like the word melancholy in English, it's
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  Speaker 1: an adaptation of the Greek words I believe for black bile.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: There it is, and melancholy personalities were associated with an
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: overabundance of black bile. And basically your melancholy you're you're
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: a depressed person or you're very reserved or quiet. And
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: for thousands of years people thought guy's got a lot
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: of black bile. Yeah, that explains his personality. The other
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: ones are pretty pretty interesting too, like phlegmatic.
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  Speaker 3: Uh, phlegmatic.
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  Speaker 1: I've seen flegmatic. I've heard flagmatic. Really, I've seen it too.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: So like when you cough something up, do you call
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: it flegum?
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Sometimes depends if it had like a lot of extra
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: chunks in it, it's flag Oh gosh. But phlegmatic, I say, phlegmatic.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: That's very laid back. Did you know that?
• 6:14
  Speaker 5: Well, Yeah, because I looked all these up. Oh okay,
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: because sanguine is one of my favorite words. Yeah, and
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: that's this is Hippocrates, by the way. He kind of
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: further refined these concepts of the temperament. So melancholic, phlegmatic, sanguine,
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: and what is it choleric.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Here coleric, Yeah, choleric, coloric. Choleric is like irritable and
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: short and terse and Kurt.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: But the thing is, there's something weird here, right if
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: you are a thinking human being, yes, who is not
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  Speaker 1: in a vegetative state right now?
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  Speaker 3: Correct?
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: And for all we know at this point in medical science,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: maybe even if you are in a vegetative state, you're
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: probably thinking, Uh, it doesn't seem like anyone I've ever
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  Speaker 1: met is just phlegmatic or just choleric, or just sanguine
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  Speaker 1: or just melancholy. Sometimes I'm all four of those things.
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  Speaker 1: Sometimes I go through those things all four in a day,
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  Speaker 1: depending on how weird the day is.
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  Speaker 3: Sometimes I go through all four of those within the
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: course of one happy hour.
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  Speaker 1: Sure, okay, Right, And that's kind of the point here,
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  Speaker 1: And it's also the basis of any criticism from this
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: moment in the podcast here on out, is that this
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  Speaker 1: whole thing that started back with the Four Humors and
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: continues on to this day in the guise of personality tests, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: is an attempt to take a human personality and say
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: you're this, Yeah, you're this one type, You're this type,
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  Speaker 1: this is your type, this is what you're like, right,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: And the human personality is just too complex, too squishy,
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  Speaker 1: too jelly like to be boxed into one thing like that.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, and we'll get into all criticisms, but that definitely
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: is the leading criticism.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: That is. Well, we'll save that.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. That was a tease.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: It was a good tease.
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  Speaker 1: It's a phlegmatic one.
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  Speaker 5: All these classifications, though, that we talk about now, are
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: or most of them at least are drive lai at
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  Speaker 5: the feet of one man. When Carl Jung, Yeah, who
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  Speaker 5: wrote a book called psychological types.
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  Speaker 1: How do you say it? Though in in German?
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  Speaker 3: I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: It's oh where is it? Let me see there it is.
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  Speaker 1: I can't even begin to do it.
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  Speaker 3: Psycho psycho sorry, psychologic yesh, psychologic ish typing.
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  Speaker 1: That's not fair.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: It's so tiny. That was the problem because you.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I do ten point I don't like to
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  Speaker 1: waste paper.
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  Speaker 3: Well you know me.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: You do like sixteen point times new Roman.
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: Paper, and I don't want to waste it. But I
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: also have to do my job. Sure, maybe I should
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: go double sided, but then my highlighter it gets in
• 9:03
  Speaker 5: the way.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it would be a problem, man, everything would
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  Speaker 1: be highlighting, you might as well just dip the whole
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  Speaker 1: page in yellow wink or something.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 5: So anyway, Jung wrote this book, that book in nineteen
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  Speaker 5: twenty one and at German and had it translated to
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  Speaker 5: English a couple of years.
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  Speaker 3: Later, and he created these four categories sensation, intuition, thinking,
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  Speaker 3: and feeling.
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  Speaker 5: Right, So those were his four that kind of most
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  Speaker 5: of these modern tests are based on in some way
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  Speaker 5: or another.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, And.
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  Speaker 1: It's really almost impossible that I guess we could just
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  Speaker 1: save all the criticisms for the end and just pile
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: them on. But it's really tough to talk about this
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: stuff and not like, as you present one fact, talk
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: about the problem with that fact as it relates to
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  Speaker 1: modern incarnation. What do you think we should do? Should
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: we just save them, like you say, because I can
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: buite my time?
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's say them, okay, and then you can just like.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not even try like I'm not I'm not going
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: crop circle here. I'm just saying like, there's just there's
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  Speaker 1: just a lot wrong with this. But even before Young
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  Speaker 1: who created these the concept of the modern concept i
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: should say, personality types, and he created the idea of introvert,
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  Speaker 1: an extrovert, which say what you will about you, and
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of psychologists have a lot to say about him. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: not necessarily the nicest things to say, but introversion and
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  Speaker 1: extra extraversion is so widely accepted inside and out of
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  Speaker 1: the field of psychology that I mean, if that were
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  Speaker 1: his only contribution to the field, that's that's enough to
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  Speaker 1: engrave it on your tombstone for sure.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: And each of those four psychological types he was talking
• 10:48
  Speaker 5: about are modified by whether or not you're introverted or extroverted.
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  Speaker 3: Right, so they all kind of work together to buch
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: you in.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: That was like the right, that was the main thing
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: is how you how you approach life is introvert, extrovert,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: and everything else was like a sub It's kind of
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: a sub section of that or something.
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: And one of the issues with this, and I don't
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: think this is part of the criticism, but.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I thought we were saving him.
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: He was This was based on his ideas. It wasn't
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: like he had all this research and all this data.
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: He was a deep thinker, and he sat around and
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: thought of these things.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Right exactly, And then he wrote entire books based on them. Yeah,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: but he's a very well respected psychoanalyst, and he was
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: part of the early movement for psychoanalysis. With Freud, they
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: were colleagues. La Jung was much younger, but they eventually said,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: I don't like you anymore. We're parting ways. But as
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: psychoanalysis was really kind of establishing itself, and if you
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: want to know more about that background in the origin
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: of psychoanalysis, go listen to her how pr works the
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: live show. Yeah, we talked a lot about that. But
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: as this was going on and it was starting to
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: kind of dominate the field of psychology, there was a
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: whole other movement, a parallel movement that said, you know what,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: we think all that's a little mushy. We like the
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: idea of being able to quantify psychology. And so even
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: before you there were guys like Alfred Binet, who was
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: one of the indirect fathers of the Intelligence test IQ test,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: a pair of researchers named Gray and Wheelwright, and plenty
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: of others who wanted to say, no, no, no, no, you
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: can study psychology. You can study things like the human personality,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: and you can typify and you can add numbers, you
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: can quantify this stuff and in doing so, we will
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: prove psychology as a science as well. So this whole
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: movement to typify people and put them into convenient, almost
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: numerical categories came out of this urgent need to establish
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: a scientific basis for psychology.
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and Jung he kind of laid the table for this.
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: And many years later, although not that many, there was
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: a woman named Katherine Cook Briggs and she was working
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: on this with her daughter, one Isabelle Briggs Myers. I
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: think you see where this is going. And this is
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: post World War two when they women were kind of
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: for the first time really going into the workforce in
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: full and en mass, and so they thought, well, maybe
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: we can put together some personality types to find out
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: what kind of jobs these women might be suited for,
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: what types of jobs they might enjoy. So they started
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: working together on this, and as legend has it, the
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: mom Katherine Briggs Cook Briggs, she was doing her thing
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: and then saw Jung's works and said, I got to
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: start over.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: This is the stuff She had already been working on
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: a personality test. Yeah, but apparently, according to the legend,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: through her work into the fire said I'm starting from scratch.
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  Speaker 3: Because she's dramatic.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: She was a voracious reader, especially of the psychology, the
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: new psychology books that were coming out of Europe.
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: Right, she didn't read Young She did well eventually, but yeah,
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: and then seems like it kind of came along later.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Well, so, yeah, there's a there's kind of a weird
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: discrepancy in the history. And I don't know if it's
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: just that hasn't been covered right or if there is
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: a weird discrepancy, but supposedly she initiated it, and so
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: it would have been contemporary or shortly after Jung's Psychology
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: or Personality Types was translated into English in nineteen twenty three.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: But it was her daughter Isabelle who really took it
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: and ran with it because of World War Two in
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: the need for women in the workplace.
• 14:57
  Speaker 5: Correct, so they you know, kind of kept some of
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: young stuff built on that it kind of striped some
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: of it away, most notably a lot of the unconscious stuff.
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: They might have thought that was a little too weird
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: for you know, the modern American workforce. Yeah, so what
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: they ended up coming up with was the the MBTI
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: Myers Briggs Type Indicator, right, very famously.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they had a publishing arrangement with one group
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: I can't remember what they were called, but they thought
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: it didn't do very well. And then in nineteen seventy
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: five they went with another publisher CPP and they're the
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: current publishers of the Myers Briggs Yeah type indicator. And
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: since then that's when it's ubiquity, like just really spread
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: was starting in the seventies and now it's just it's
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: basically married to corporate America.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: Should we take a break, sure, go get married to
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: corporate America.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, as if we aren't already.
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: All right, we'll come back and we'll talk a little
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: bit about personality tests in general and then focus in
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: a little more on the n B T I.
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: As W.
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: S k as all right, So.
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: Personality tests is just there are many many ways you
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: can get evaluated psychologically by a professional.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: This is just one way.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: And you get your head measured with calibers. Back in
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: the day they did that, give you a bunch of
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: drugs and see what you do. There's a lot of ways.
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: But these tests generally, as Grabster points out, falls into
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: a couple of types, projective and objective. Projective tests or
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: things like the roar shack test where you're shown something
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: some kind of stimulus and it's open to interpretation, and
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: you tell them what you think about it, and someone
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: sits back very quietly and taps on a pad of
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: paper and makes an evaluation. And then objective are more
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: like these personality tests. They're standardized assessments that people use,
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: and while it's subjective what you put down, they are
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: then evaluated again by a professional.
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: But ultimately that objective name is a bit of a
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: misnomer because on the end of it, it's still interpreted
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: by a person. Yeah, which is therefore makes it subjective, right,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: and which, depending on who you ask, is the fatal
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: flaw of all personality tests.
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: It should be the good song from the seventies had
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: a little parenthetical at the end of the title, right,
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: it should just say subjective also right in parentheses.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Baby.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: So the big five are and this is the Big five.
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: I get the feeling or the psycho logical tests that
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: that legit psychologists are more in favor of over something
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: like the MBT.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: I is that right?
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not just there's tests to suss out the
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Big five. The Big five are the personality types of
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: the field of psychology has come up with.
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah, but the tests that you utilize that, right,
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: they kind of think are more legit than the MBT.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: I yeah, there's not a psychologist alive who uses the
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: the MBTI and the regular practice. Oh I bet there
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: are not that not that are speaking up.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: I guarantee you there's someone out there.
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Sure it's a free wheeling type.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Or is she?
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: So?
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: The Big five are extraversion, agreeableness, openness to experience, conscientiousness,
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: and neuroticism. Right, sounds like it could be like a
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: dating site thing that you fill out.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: It's funny, every time I see or hear the word neuroticism,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: a bell goes off in my head, like.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Thing, just a silent bell. I don't know what that means.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: I don't either, but it draws my attention to.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: So some of these tests, I mean, it depends on
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: what it is that.
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: They might not all call them by those exact words,
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: but they're generally using they call them, you know, like
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: I said, the Big five.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I I was looking into that Big five
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: and this site I can't remember what it was called,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: but they were basically they were going over it like
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: extraversion is again just part of the scientific literature at
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: this point. Agreeableness is like whether you're how sympathetic or
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: kind or affectionate you are? Conscientiousness is are you organized?
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Are you thorough? Are you the type who shows up
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: on time? That kind of thing, neuroticism, which is some
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: kind sometimes called emotional stability. How tense are you? How moody?
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: How anxious? And then like openness to experience? Right, yeah,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: they sometimes call that intellect slash imagination. Do you have
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: wide interests? Are you an imaginative person? Are you insightful?
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: And the site really went to a lot of pains
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: to point out that what you would call these things
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: the big five personality traits are as far as a
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: psychologist is concerned, just one dimension of you, the human being,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: and that to get a clearer picture of you, they
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: would also need to study your motivations, your emotions, your attitudes,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: your abilities, your self concepts, your social roles, autobiographical memories,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: your life stories. Now, if you start to put all
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: these things together, then you can start to kind of
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: approximate the person's personality. But it would just it takes
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of study of an individual and these different
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: components that make up their personality to get a clear picture.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: So I don't think there are any psychologists walking around
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: saying the big five personality types or like the beginning
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: and end of a personality. It's just if you put
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: them together, you have just a sketch of somebody's personality
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: and you should go much deeper. Or if you're analyzing someone.
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I used to think this stuff was
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: a lot neaterer when I was younger, and now it
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: kind of gives me a little anxiety. Oh yeah, yeah,
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: Like I just I don't know as far as doing
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: this to myself, and I still enjoy therapy, like that's different.
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: But I don't know, because every single one of these
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: I like my answer would be, well, it depends.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Well, I think. I think also though, and I don't
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: mean to speak for you, but one of the issues
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: that that comes up for me is if somebody goes
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: to you and says, you know you you you rate
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: pretty high on the spectrum of neuroticism, Like that's obviously
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: you're gonna obsess about that kind of stuff, especially if
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: they're right.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: It can make you neurotic.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's a boundary that somebody has just established
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: for you. That you may need feel the need to
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: stay in because that's the boundary that you're bound by,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: whether you are or not.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: Like this is my box, right that I'll live in it.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: That would be the reason it raises anxiety for me.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, my whole thing.
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: Like I said, though, it is just depends every single
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: question that I would get asked. Well, not everyone. Sometimes
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: I'm pretty like set on something, but usually I'd say
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: I don't know. It depends on the scenario. Right, Am
• 22:11
  Speaker 5: I more prone in a crowd to do X or Y?
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: Maybe right?
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: Maybe not? Depends on my mood.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: So one with these other personality tests, and the whole
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: field in psychology of studying traits personality traits in a
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: quantitative way is called psychometrics. So with these tests, the
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: more sophisticated ones, if they had a test taker like you,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: they're designed to get around that. So they're going to
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: ask a bunch of different questions about the same thing,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: but in different ways, coming from different directions, so that eventually,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: if you put all of them together and run them
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: through statistical analysis, they're actually going to come up with
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: your genuine answer, which is kind of one way or another.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: The other way that they get around this that kind
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: of hemming and hauling, I guess is by placing it
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: on a spectrum, you're not being lumped into one category
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: or another. It's here's one end of the spectrum, here's
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: the other end of the spectrum, and based on your answers,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: you fall somewhere around the middle, like almost everybody does.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: If you look at psychometric tests, a legitimate psychometric test
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: is going to basically look like a bell curve where
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: most people are going to be distributed toward the middle.
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think what that's why gives me anxiety. It's like,
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: what's the point? Don't box me in?
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: It's a great question.
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: Well, I think the second half of this is a
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: lot of what's the point? Yeah, you know, So looking
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: speaking on these tests to see if it's actually if
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: there is a point, if it's a valid thing to do.
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: There are a couple of measures that one must look
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: at and that psychologists do look at is it valid
• 23:58
  Speaker 5: and is it reliable? Valid in this that it really
• 24:01
  Speaker 5: is a pretty good reflection of Josh or Chuck or whoever,
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: and is it reliable. So if we take this test
• 24:08
  Speaker 5: tomorrow or a different test, that's just you know, maybe
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: different questions, will it reproduce the same result?
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: And that's a big deal.
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: Like if you're talking science and you're trying to have
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: a foundation that says, no, this is science. It's not
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: just a bunch of questions and hippie dippy questions that
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: we're asking. If you really want real data and science
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: behind it, you have to be able to reproduce it.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: One of the other things too, that these tests are
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: designed to do is to weed out fakers. Right, we'll
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: talk a lot more about the Minnesota Multi Phasic Personality Inventory,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: which is one of the big ones. Yes, probably the
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: most taken personality test in the world, and it has
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of built in mechanisms and apparently is really
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: good at detecting people who are faking they're faking a
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: mental illness or who are trying to pretend that they
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: aren't suffering from a mental illness. Yeah, it's really good
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: at detecting that because it's so exhaustive and using statistical analysis.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: If somebody is skewed really far one way or skewed
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: really far the other, they're just immediately exposed as gaming
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: the test as best they can.
• 25:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: And one way they do that, which is in its
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: own way, its own little psychology experiment at least, is
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: by telling you if we have ways right, like, you
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: will be rooted out and we will know exactly. So
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: they tell people that beforehand, so you're more inclined to
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: just be like, all right, we'll screw it.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: I'll tell the truth, right, especially when they're sitting there
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: like clearing the air out of a syringe.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: That's creepy.
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: It is, all right, So let's get back to CPP
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: in the MBTI, the consulting Psychological Psychologists PRESS and the
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: Myers Briggs.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: We'll just keep calling it a test, even though they
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: say it's not a.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Test, it's a type inventory.
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so we'll just go ahead and break down the
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: deal here there are. The object is to sort you
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: into one of sixteen different types personality types, based on
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: which side of four pairs or dichotomies that you're going
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: to fall on. And those are at the very base.
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: You're either introverted or extroverted, like we said, HE or I,
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: sensing or intuition S and N. And these words they
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: sound a little confusing, like what the heck does a
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: sensing person mean? It means you, like the big data
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: empirical data and a lot of information.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Right, whereas intuition is like you just go with your gut,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: that's how you prefer to be correct. Right.
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: The next we have thinking and feeling. Thinking being more
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: focused on logic, that's a logic with the tea sure
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: and objectivity. And then if you're feeling, you're going to
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: be more interested in relationships and harmony among your group.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Those two are pretty straightforward, Yeah, I think so. And
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: then lastly there's judging and perceiving. Those are that's a dichotomy.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Judging is where you prefer schedules, you prefer decisiveness, that's
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: how you kind of approach life, and perceiving is where
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: you're just kind of like whatever, Yeah, I'm not too
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: worried about it. Yeah, that's almost kind of like the
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: difference between the type A and type B personalities, which,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: by the way, was made up by a pair of
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: cardiologists really whose work was later secretly funded by the
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: tobacco industry who are looking for anything to explain heart
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: attacks besides smoking, so they funded type A and type
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: B personality research for years. Interesting, Yeah, it really is.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: There's a just as an aside, there's a really interesting price,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, price nomics.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: Article on type and type.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just look it up. I don't remember the name.
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: So when you sit down to take one of these
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: not tests with a series of questions that you answer,
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: I think.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: They call them instruments, by the way, psychometric instruments, which.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: Are basically a series of questions on a.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Piece of paper that sounds like a test.
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: They will say things like ed has some good examples
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: here when you go on a trip, do you want
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: everything planned out in advance or would you rather just
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: take each day as it comes, do whatever you feel like?
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: Pretty straightforward kind of stuff, right, And then they also
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: have things like word pairs, just to see literally what
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: word you like better, like compassion, foresight, Like which word
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: do you like better?
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Carrots or fruit?
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: Fruit?
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Fruit? Yeah, that's just prettier, it is. So I'm looking
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: back here, I just want to say, so.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: I think you're trying to figure out what you were.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think e n FP. Maybe I think.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: That's what I was. We weren't the same thing.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: I don't remember you. Me and I got the same thing.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: She found an old email, but she forgot to tell
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: me what we were. Oh really, I really, I don't know.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Problem is would we still be the same today?
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think, if I'm not mistaken, didn't we
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: have this up on a big board in the office
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: for a while, So yeah, it seems like a Jerry's nodding.
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: That seems like a breach of protocol. Sure like privacy.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well again, being forced a gunpoint to do it
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: was just from the start.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: I remember it was kind of fun. I had a
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: fun day.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: We'll talk about that as well.
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: So it's gonna cost you if you just do this
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: as a single individual, not meaning not married, but just
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: a person, about fifty bucks, although they.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: Should charge more if you're married. It's more complex.
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: Test fifty bucks. If you want an hour feedback, that'll
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: cost you an extra hundred. And if you want a
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: career report all typed up, that'll be sixteen ninety five. Yeah,
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: and if you this is fifteen hundred dollars for a
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: on site training classes at like what we had.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: So this is a this is not very well explained.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: If you want to administer the Myers Briggs personality or
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: type inventory, yeah, you can get certified four day training course.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, and you pay fifteen hundred to sixteen hundred dollars.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: Oh that's what that is.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Cannot legally administer this test or you're infringing on their copyright,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: right unless you are certified by CPP to do this.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: We should do it with one another on the air
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: and risk a lawsuit.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, well you probably got a suit already with
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: that one question you asked out loud.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: Which one? Oh, just the one?
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you go on a trip, do you want
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: everything planned out in advance?
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: I just made that up. Oh good job, goodcha, I
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: got that from Travelocity.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Nice. Okay, yeah, that little gnome whispered it in your.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: Ear, that's right.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: But so you you would go and get certified, and
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: then now you can go around to businesses and say, hey,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: do you want to know more about your employees? You
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: want to know who's good at what? Let me come
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: give the Myers Briggs type inventory to your your employees
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: and it will be wonderful.
• 31:18
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: So that's how the whole process goes. You pay to
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: become certified, and then you go become something of an
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: evangelist for the Myers Briggs test and you sell the test.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: You basically become a salesman as well. It's a it's
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: very interesting dynamic that they have going.
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: That is, it's a good word dynamic. They want to
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: point out that the person taking the test is the expert,
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: and they also use this metaphor of handedness, which I
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: didn't fully understand. They say things like, it feels more
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: comfortable to sign your name with your domino hand, but
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: technically you can sign with your non dominant and if
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: you need to right. I'm not sure what they're trying
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: to prove that.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: They're trying to say that despite the MBTI, pigeonholing you
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: fully in one category or another rather than on a spectrum.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: They're saying that category that it's pigeonholing you into is
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: actually just your preference. It's not you specifically, it's just.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Your inclined pretension.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you tend to be an extrovert, but of course
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: everybody likes their own personal alone time, So yeah, you're
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: going to be an introvert once in a while, but
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: you're an extrovert more than other times.
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, because I can't sign my name with my left hand.
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: That I didn't like that analogy because it literally I
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: can barely hold a pin with my left hand.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: I'm seeing you're doing it right now.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Wow, that was pretty bad.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: If I try to do it.
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: It would look like a a three year old with
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: arthritis has tried to like scribble it.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Out mine mine looks like umm.
• 33:02
  Speaker 6: You d M.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's my signature with my left hand.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: And they do they do try and point out. Like
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: you said that.
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: It's interesting because they box you in. But at the
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: same time they're saying, but you know, like.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: You said, this is just predisposition.
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: Don't don't really think of it about you being this
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: type of person, even though you are an A E
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: N F B. Right, like you said, it was earlier,
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: it was almost numbered. I mean it is this letter.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: This is a different way of quantifying it. Yeah, but
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: without numbers, you want to take a break and then
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: come back and and maybe do a little criticism.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, as why why.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: S K.
• 33:53
  Speaker 6: You should know?
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: All right, Chuck? Like I said, it's kind of a
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: pastime in the United States to to tee off on
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: the Myers Briggs type inventory.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is not us here, this is now, this.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Is us talking about other people. Team.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: It's widely been criticized over the years from psychologists and
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: uh well amateur.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: No, nothing's like us.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: One of the big criticisms is.
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: That companies use this stuff and hiring and firing and promoting.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: But even the Myers Briggs people cpp say, like, don't
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: Well I know, but they say that, but then don't
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: go to an office and get hired by a corporation
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: to administer.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: It, right or go sell your services you know? Yeah, yeah,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: I agreed, And that's part of the problem. To me,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: that is more the corporation's fault. Well, like, if you
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: have an HR person who's like a die hard believer
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: in the MBTI and will hire or fire somebody based
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: on their MBTI type, fire that person because you have
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: a real dumb dumb on your hands and they should
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: not be responsible for people's livelihoods. Even I don't think
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: they would put it quite in those terms, But even
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: the Myers Briggs people say like, you shouldn't use this
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: for hiring or firing, and yet yes, some people do,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: some people swear by this. The impression that I have
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: is that the Myers Briggs people tend to think of
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: this as more like a team building exercise or 're
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: like a certified MBTI administrator can come to your place,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: get all your employees together and they find out like
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: all their personality types and by the way, there's not
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: a single negative personality type and all personality types are equal. Sure,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: so everybody gets a participant ribbon in the form of
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: their personality type. But at the same time, and this
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: seems to be the crux, at the same time, everybody's
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: finding out like, oh, you're a little different than me,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: and I'm a little different than you, and we all
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: have differences in different perspectives, so let's celebrate that, and
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: let's respect to one another's differences. And there is the
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: actual point from what I understand, of the Myers Briggs
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: type inventory and taking it in a corporate setting.
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: That's what stands out to me as what happened with
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: us was I remember it kind of being a fun
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: day and we're like TUTSI rolls. Yeah, we held goofed
• 36:48
  Speaker 5: off and had a good time. And the person leading it,
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: if they're good at what they do, which this person was,
• 36:53
  Speaker 5: is always you know, it's always kind of a fun
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: person and cracking jokes and they don't take it too serious.
• 37:00
  Speaker 5: None of us took it too seriously, and we all
• 37:03
  Speaker 5: had a good time and it was very much like
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: a team building thing.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Right, So as long as there's like a wink wink,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: nudge nudge kind of thing, and that the people who
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: take it actually take it seriously or taken off to
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: the side by their hr rep to say like, no,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: this is a little less serious, then you're taking it.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Then it's fine. But yes, once you start deciding people's
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: fate based on this, then you have real problems because
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: it's just about anybody will tell you the Myers Briggs
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: type inventory is based at best on some shaky science,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: if at all, if you go back to the very beginning,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: it's based on the theories of Carl Jung, which have
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: never been based on science. There are basically personal observations
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: by Jung, and the psychology community has disavowed Jung in
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: large part, so therefore anything based on his teachings and
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: theories is by proxy disavowed as well. But if that
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: weren't enough, psychology, you as a field loves going after
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: the Myers Briggs type inventory just loves it as totally
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: baseless scientifically all.
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: Right, So we've got shouldn't use it to hire and
• 38:13
  Speaker 5: fire in corporations or gift promotions. We have not based
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: on real science and scientific data. These four dichotomies are
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: problematic in and of themselves because everyone is on a spectrum.
• 38:30
  Speaker 5: You can't say, like, you know, you answered these ten questions,
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: you're either.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: This or you're that.
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: Right, And when one of the rebuttals because I think
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: ED interviewed someone from CPP, right, Yeah, one of the
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: rebuttals about being a non repeatable experiment of sorts is like, hey, yesterday.
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: I was an e NFP and today I'm this.
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: They'll say, well, you know what, if you have different answers,
• 38:57
  Speaker 5: that means you were sort of on the cusp right
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: there in that center line on some of these questions,
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: and you might have just leapt over to that other side,
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: which means you're basically kind of down the center. Yet
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: they don't have a categorization for down the center.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because depending on as inputs it, you could answer
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: all twenty four questions on the feeling side and you're
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: going to get the same result as somebody who answered
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: eleven questions for thinking and thirteen questions for feeling. Right,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: same thing, You're still both in f in that respect.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: And I saw elsewhere it put like if the Myers
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Briggs test measured height, you would either be tall or short. Yeah,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: you could say well, actually I'm right there in the middle,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: and they'd be like, well that's short, right, Or for you,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: it's short. For the guy who is the same exact height, they're.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: Tall, right.
• 39:47
  Speaker 5: And trust me, nobody this five' ten likes to be considered, short.
• 39:50
  Speaker 5: RIGHT i can say that from.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Experience because you're. Not you're in your Average.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: I'm, average, Right so being.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Average the fact that there isn't a spectrum is one
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: one thing that really makes it in stark contrast of
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: other much more widely accepted psychometric. Instruments for, sure.
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: It also points out to the grabster that They're the construction.
• 40:14
  Speaker 5: Of the instrument itself is problematic because, one like we talked,
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: about it's self. Reporting anytime you're self, reporting there's going
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: to be some weird bias in, there, sure just almost
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: impossible to. Avoid and the other one is that he
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: says a couple of these dichademies are, entangled WHICH i
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: never really thought about, that but that's a pretty good.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: Point so.
• 40:42
  Speaker 5: Judging perceiving scale or correlated with answers on the sensing intuition,
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: scale and if you, like those should be separated out for.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: Sure for. SURE i don't know why they.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: DON'T i don't, either you, know because they've really put
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of work into.
• 40:58
  Speaker 5: This, yeah it's not baked in stone from the nineteen
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: forties and fifties and, sixties is.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: It, no it's. Not and even while they were creating
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: it was an, ongoing exhaustive process That Missus briggs And
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Missus myers engaged.
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: In, yeah we don't want to Give they spent decades on. This,
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: yes it wasn't like something they threw.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: Together.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: No the problem is is they they did it. Backwards
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: they came up with the personality types and then set
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: about creating the test that would detect these personality. Types
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: rather than going out and testing, people seeing what personality
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: types emerged and then figuring out a test to find
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: that and other, people they did it. Backwards that's a good.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: Point it was based on young but it was not
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: for lack of. Trying Like as a matter of, fact
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: one of the first things they did after they started
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: to really establish the tests was they managed to administer
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: it to like five Thousand George Washington university medical, students
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: and they took those results and tracked the students to
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: see what fields of medicine they went. In they like
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: really worked on. THIS i read an article in The
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Washington post where THIS i Think Isabelle myers's son remembers
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: their vacations were basically like fact finding missions all around the,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: country like they would go administer a, test like everything
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: was about this. Test AND i worked on it for a.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Decades so, yeah the problem is it was just it's
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: just not based on. Science they didn't follow the scientific.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Method so, science so science kind of poo poos THE.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: MBT i but, wait, wait, wait get back, here because
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of these criticisms fall just as easily on
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: every other psychometric test.
• 42:42
  Speaker 6: Around.
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah and that's one of the things THAT i
• 42:45
  Speaker 5: can't remember who was interviewed in, Here but in one
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: of those other articles you sent one of The MYERS
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: i don't know if it was or maybe it was
• 42:55
  Speaker 5: a roar shack defender, said you, know like, everyone, yeah
• 43:00
  Speaker 5: it Was. Rorschak like everyone's always picking On, rorshak, right
• 43:03
  Speaker 5: when all of these psychological tests, are you, know subject to, criticism.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: They, are you, KNOW i think it's really easy for
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: to tee off On rorshak as, well BECAUSE i mean
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: we're talking ink. Plots, man it is the epitome of
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: subjective self. Reporting you're, SAYING, i let's see in this,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: ONE i see mom's. Boobs, yeah mom's boobs in that one,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Too dad's, boobs right, right exactly. So and then from
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: that it was strictly up to Initially, rorshak WHO i
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: think came up with this test in nineteen, fifteen ninety.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Seventeen what it's the Name, HERMAN i think so he's
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: A swiss. Psychiatrist her it. Was it was initially up
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: to him and then later on his followers to interpret,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: this which is basically like interpreting. Dreams, yeah and so,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: subjective totally subjective from beginning. That and then IN i
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: think nineteen se seventy, five a guy At Bowling Green State,
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: university which is right outside Of, toledo came up with
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: this a really exhaustive interpretive test that sought to quantify rorschak.
• 44:16
  Speaker 5: Answers, Yeah John, Exner and it was a test called
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: The Comprehensive system one hundred and forty. Components and in
• 44:26
  Speaker 5: this article you, sent they said That rorschak was probably
• 44:29
  Speaker 5: going away had it not been For exner's accompaniment with
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: this other, process.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Right and even, today he's got an institute In asheville
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: that's dedicated to The rorschach. Test, Right, so one Thing
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: i've noticed from researching this is each of these personality
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: inventories has like its adherence and its, detractors and just
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: judging from the, outside it looks a lot like colts
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: gathered around their various. Idols. Right there's like the origin
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: figurehead who came up with, it and everybody worships, them
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: and he's attacked by these other followers who have a
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: very similar. Figurehead they came up with something very, similar
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: but it's just different enough that there's a huge chasm
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: between the two and there's a lot of dogma surrounding.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: It but The rorschach test in particular is apparently well
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: known to give wildly inaccurate.
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: RESULTS i took one, today did you? Online how'd you?
• 45:25
  Speaker 5: DO i got two out of, ten which MEANS i
• 45:29
  Speaker 5: was only two two away whatever that means from being
• 45:34
  Speaker 5: labeled like a.
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: Psychotic, so, yeah there was this four out of. TEN
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: i think there's This oh, REALLY i think that's what it. Said,
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: yeah that's. CLOSE i mean this is an online.
• 45:43
  Speaker 5: TEST i don't know if it's, like how true it
• 45:45
  Speaker 5: was to the ORIGINAL i got, it or it may
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: be the, Original.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah it could. Be and then they have an algorithm
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: that runs the.
• 45:51
  Speaker 5: ANALYSIS i kept seeing all kinds of things WHEN i
• 45:54
  Speaker 5: looked at, it And i've never done an ink plot.
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: TEST i would, say, oh that looks like a, bat
• 45:58
  Speaker 5: and then they was, like, no it's like two. Bunnies
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: and then now it looks like a Cool Marti gras.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Mask did they move to?
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: You did you see?
• 46:05
  Speaker 5: Colors, well some of them were, Colored oh, okay most
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: of them were, black and they had A the ONE
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: i took had a one and a. Two, like what
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: do you? See and what's like a secondary thing that you?
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: See so you, know supposedly people who are supporters of
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: The rorschak tests, say, no, man there's we don't know
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: how it's. Working but if you see movement in The
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: rorschach ink, blots it's suggestive of depression or something like.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: That and they, say statistically it's. Correlated but LIKE i was,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: saying it's also notorious for giving incorrect.
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: Results, yeah like saying you have a mental. Illness, right.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Okay so there was this study in two thousand that
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: was given to like one hundred mentally sound elementary school
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: kids and some like high percentage of them came back
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: as borderline psychotic because of The rorschak, test, Right and
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: it's hilarious to hear stories like, That Like i'm laughing
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: inside right. Now but the problem is is you're at
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: the very least being labeled as. Psychotic, sure not a
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: label you want in. Society and it was because of
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: this ink blot test that's one hundred years. Old and then,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: secondly these tests are also being submitted and accepted as
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: evidence in criminal. Trials that's the biggest part child custody.
• 47:24
  Speaker 5: Cases, YES i mean they're still given real weight and
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: lives are changed and ruined based on looking at one
• 47:31
  Speaker 5: hundred year old ink. Blots, yes and a person's subjective
• 47:34
  Speaker 5: analysis of.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: That that's not. Okay, No This.
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: Howard garb in this one article you. Sent he's a
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: co author Of What's wrong with A rorshak and he
• 47:43
  Speaker 5: is head of psycho or at least at the time
• 47:45
  Speaker 5: of this, article he may still be head of psychological
• 47:48
  Speaker 5: testing for The Air. Force he said that even With
• 47:51
  Speaker 5: exner's comprehensive, system he, said only ten percent of his
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: system even meets the most basic scientific, standards and they
• 48:01
  Speaker 5: did the examine data of over thirty Different rorschak, studies
• 48:05
  Speaker 5: and he said they all have a tendency to label
• 48:07
  Speaker 5: healthy people mentally.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: Ill.
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: Right and if you're trying to get custody of your
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: kid or if you are on, trial is a? Criminal,
• 48:13
  Speaker 5: like it's just that's the last thing you. Need, yeah
• 48:17
  Speaker 5: is someboddy subjective opinion of is it a bunny or
• 48:20
  Speaker 5: is it a?
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: Bat?
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Oh he, said a? Bat take that, kid you know?
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: Quick kids LIKE i like.
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: Bunnies the.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Another one that we have to talk about is THE
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Mmpi now THE mmpi dash. TOO i think as of
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: twenty twelve they revised it. Dramatic yeah is this?
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: One is that? Right it has over five hundred? Questions?
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow some of them originally were about like your bowel, movements,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: okay really nutso questions that supposedly really got to the
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: heart of whether you were mentally disturbed or.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: Not.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah and it was created at The University minnesota
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: in the forties by a psychiatrist and a, NEUROLOGIST i,
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: believe and they hit upon a pretty clever. Idea they,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: said we're not going to interpret the results right and,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: say you, Know, oh this person said that they do
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: feel like smashing something, Sometimes.
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah and that means.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: This, instead we're going to come up with this test
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: of like five hundred and four, questions and we're going
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: to give it to the patient or the family and
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: staff of a mental hospital who we're sure or, sane
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: and we're going to take their answers and they're going
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: to become our control, group our. Baseline so then anybody
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: who takes this, test we're going to compare the test
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: taker's answers to the sane control group's, answers and you,
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: know depending on how it relates to the same control,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: group they're either mentally ill or.
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: Not you better have gotten that control, group. Right, well
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: that's the thing to begin.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: With so a group of like family and friends In,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: minnesota is the picture of sanity throughout the world is
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: the basis of this. Test that's a huge problem with
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: it to begin. With, yeah but apparently a lot of people, say, like,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: no it it really. Has it does a pretty good
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: job of sussening it sussing out mental. Illness it's also
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: really good at detecting faker faking one way or the.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Other but it's it's too invasive and when companies use
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: it for hiring and, firing it's way too invasive and
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: apparently lawsuits have been filed against companies for using.
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: It, WELL i think that most people are far more
• 50:40
  Speaker 5: troubled than they ever let on in. Life, sure and
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: part of success in life comes down to how good
• 50:52
  Speaker 5: you are at covering that up or hiding, it or
• 50:56
  Speaker 5: dealing with it and processing it in terms with. It
• 51:02
  Speaker 5: it's just to find a core group that are quote unquote,
• 51:06
  Speaker 5: sane normal.
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: People it's just you're starting off with a.
• 51:12
  Speaker 5: Problem, yeah you ask me a faulty, premise, Right, yeah
• 51:16
  Speaker 5: there's no. Way, like everyone has their. Issues they're deep
• 51:19
  Speaker 5: dark things that their brain that they don't want anyone to.
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: Know sometimes even the people closest to them don't even.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Know, yeah and actually you're in agreement with. THIS a
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: sociologist Named William white who criticized THE mmpi as a
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: tool that helped to create and perpetuate the oppressive group
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: think of mid century organization man where it's basically, like
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: here's what we think is. Normal anything outside of that is,
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: abnormal and we're not going to hire you because you
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: don't fit into this picture of, normalcy which is basically
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: white crew Cut minnesota from the. Forties, right that's the
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: picture of. Normalcy that's highly.
• 51:59
  Speaker 5: Debatable the other THING i thought was interesting is a
• 52:02
  Speaker 5: lot of skeptics and critics point to things like THE
• 52:04
  Speaker 5: mbti and saying this is just like astrology is really
• 52:11
  Speaker 5: no different than reading your, horoscope because it's all positive.
• 52:13
  Speaker 5: Psychology at the end of A Myers briggs non, test
• 52:20
  Speaker 5: no one walks away feeling. Bad usually it's all sort
• 52:23
  Speaker 5: of positive wording and like like this is what you.
• 52:26
  Speaker 5: Are you're just, this so kind of don't worry about
• 52:29
  Speaker 5: it the same way you read your horoscope in any given.
• 52:32
  Speaker 5: DAY i, mean how many horoscopes say like today you
• 52:36
  Speaker 5: will be prone to depression and wonder what it's all.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: About, right maybe you should work on your core character
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: because people don't like being around you that. Much you
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: don't hear that kind of. Stuff but that taps into
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: what's called The forror. Effect. Flrr there is a psychiatrist
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: Named Bertram.
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: Forrror, oh this is so. Interesting he will take.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: It it's pretty.
• 52:58
  Speaker 5: Interesting, WELL i, mean basically did he give the Same
• 53:02
  Speaker 5: he had people take these tests and then gave all
• 53:04
  Speaker 5: of the people the exact same, assessment but telling everyone
• 53:08
  Speaker 5: it was tailored for them their own personality. Assessment AND
• 53:12
  Speaker 5: i think the people who just thought it was favorable were,
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: like this is.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: Great well it was. Favorable he actually called it from daily.
• 53:18
  Speaker 5: Horoscopes well, yeah but what were they responding positively? To,
• 53:21
  Speaker 5: well it was whether or not they wanted to feel
• 53:23
  Speaker 5: that way about.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: This it was a positive. Assessment there was nothing negative in,
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: there so it was all positive stuff like you have
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of unused, potential that kind of, stuff stuff
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: people wanted to identify. With, Right so the more flattering it,
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: was the more likely the people were to, say this
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: is an accurate assessment of.
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: Me oh, okay so just ac the fact that it was.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: The same one given to the entire. Class he took
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: their answers and threw them out and, said here's your.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: Assessment they're the same one for. Everybody that's about. Right
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: it got like an eighty five percent accuracy from the
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: class as a.
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: Whole, well that's WHAT i.
• 53:53
  Speaker 5: Wondered it was about the fifteen percent where those people
• 53:56
  Speaker 5: just super honest.
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: Maybe and like no this really.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: No people actually don't like being around. Me i'm using
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: all of my potential and they still don't like.
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: Me, yeah that's WHAT i couldn't figure. Out BUT i
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: guess that makes.
• 54:07
  Speaker 5: Sense there are people out there that ARE i THINK
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: i would be one of those that would be, like
• 54:10
  Speaker 5: this is all.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah i'm not like. That sure you got anything?
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: ELSE i think. Not this is a good.
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: One we've been wanting to do this for a.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: While, yeah this is a special request by me and.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: Others if you want to know more about personality, tests
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: well you can go take them. Online they're kind of.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: Huge right, now find out what kind of hobbit you.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: ARE i don't know.
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: What blocks do you live?
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: In, yeah and in the, meantime you can type personality
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: tests in the search bar at housetiffworks dot. Com and
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: SINCE i said, that it's time for listener.
• 54:46
  Speaker 5: Mail the only thing that should live in a box
• 54:51
  Speaker 5: is temporary housing for a pet frog.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: That's not, bad or the stuff you find in a
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: tree hole That Boo radley left for.
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: You, yeah live in the.
• 55:03
  Speaker 5: Box, hey, guys feel compelled to write you today to
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: tell you how GRATEFUL i am for your show and
• 55:09
  Speaker 5: praise your good. Work recently became a listener And i'm
• 55:12
  Speaker 5: working my way through the entire. ARCHIVE i think a
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: lot of folks might be able to relate to, this
• 55:16
  Speaker 5: until RECENTLY i found OUT i found it really hard
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: to relax and suffer with. Anxiety two months, AGO i
• 55:21
  Speaker 5: read an article basically pointing out how our obsession with
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: being productive and associated guilt is a modern. PHENOMENON i
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: think that for, sure you know. Yep ALTHOUGH i had
• 55:33
  Speaker 5: heard this, before something really clicked to my. Head SO
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: i decided to abandon guilt and embrace, relaxation taking control
• 55:39
  Speaker 5: of my own stress. Levels you guys have been a
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  Speaker 5: big part of. THIS i have taken the time to
• 55:44
  Speaker 5: slowly potter around my flat gopher walks while listening and
• 55:48
  Speaker 5: learning to your fascinating, podcasts and they've lifted my. MOOD
• 55:51
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• 55:52
  Speaker 3: I ever have. Before.
• 55:53
  Speaker 5: Nice although the content of what you discussed might not
• 55:56
  Speaker 5: always be, positive the way in which you explain them
• 55:59
  Speaker 5: and your own views revive my hope in humanity.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: That is ridiculously. Flattered isn't that?
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: Nice?
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: YEAH i GUESS i should also mention that a big
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: part of my tackling anxiety levels has been to abandon
• 56:09
  Speaker 5: watching television.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: And fistfuls of psychotropic.
• 56:12
  Speaker 5: DRUG i would be really interested to know if there's
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: been any research conducted into the EFFECT tv has upon our.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: Lives, Oh i'm sure there has. Been.
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: SURE i haven't owned A tv for many, years but
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: my partner has since subscribed to an online provider AND
• 56:25
  Speaker 5: i realized how WATCHING tv has not helped my. ANXIETY
• 56:27
  Speaker 5: i also remember reading that AFTER TVs became mainstream In,
• 56:31
  Speaker 5: bhutan their crime rate went up something like seven.
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: Percent might prove an interesting topic for a future. Show.
• 56:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah, anyway sincerely, grateful keep it. UP i am now
• 56:42
  Speaker 5: recommending your shows to as many people AS i. Can
• 56:44
  Speaker 5: big love from THE.
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: Uk.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: Mac thanks a, Lot, mac that was. Great we hear
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: from a lot of people actually say that we help
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: them with their. Anxiety no idea, how but it doesn't,
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: matter so thank.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: You. Yep.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah if you want to get in touch of, this
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: Like mac, did you can and send us an email
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: To stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Com stuff You Should know is a production Of. iHeartRadio
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: for more podcasts Myheart, radio visit The iHeartRadio, App Apple,
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: Shows