Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Kirk Franklin Talks 'I Am What I Am,' Church Culture, GloRilla, Tobe Nwigw, Family, Christian Faith + More

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INTERVIEW: Kirk Franklin Talks 'I Am What I Am,' Church Culture, GloRilla, Tobe Nwigw, Family, Christian Faith + More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hold up. Every day I wake up.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club. Y'all finished or
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: y'all done?
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Morning, everybody.
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: It's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God. We are
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: The Breakfast Club. Lonely Rose is here as well. We
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: got a special guest in the building.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Making all this secular music, pissing off all this gospel folk.
• 0:20
  Speaker 4: Oh, Lord.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, Kirk Franklin.
• 0:23
  Speaker 5: Welcome.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Welcome. Good morning. That is so good.
• 0:27
  Speaker 4: How you feeling?
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: What's up, beautiful people?
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Good morning. How are you, sir?
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: You know, since I'm the OG, I got to say,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: you know, and I am the OG.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: You are the OG. Yes, you are. Yes, you are. Yes, sir.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: I'm just very proud. I'm very proud of what's been
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: curated with you guys, man. Just seeing, like, you know, like,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I came here 10 years ago. My first time on
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Brooks Club was 10 years ago.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: And just to see how it's just evolved. Oh, okay.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm a little short, I got to get
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: close to the mic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just seeing
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: how it's evolved and just how you've just created this
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: space that is unique, man. It is very impressive.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Thank you, brother.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Just the pride I see in how you guys have
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: diversified it and it's become such a juggernaut. Just not
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: only within our culture, but just within American culture.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's beautiful. Thank you.
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: Congratulations to you in your first single that you put out.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: Amazing single.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: We loved it from the dog. This time is the
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: name of it.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: I was very humbled to see how much love you
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: were giving it.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:28
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Really.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: You know what?
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: It was when we first heard the record, we just
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: thought it was an amazing record.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: We didn't think about it being a gospel song or
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: a religious song. We just said it's a dope song,
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: and a dope song should be played.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: And you sampled a dope record, Shorty Low? Yes, you did. No,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: they sampled the original.
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: They sampled the original of Shorty Low. What's the original?
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: They sampled where Shorty Low got it from.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay, okay.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: 1976 record. It's 1976 by a band called Mandrell.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, right.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow. Yes, it's a song called Children of the Sun.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: and so R.I.P. to Charlotte Lowe though he did sample
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: it first and then I went back and sampled it
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: so this song is an original record from the 70s
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: you know that's what we call you we call you
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Holy Lowe and not only that and then they show
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: me that you text about the record I'm telling you
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: man I was just really humble and I saw you
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: at the crib dancing to the record and you know
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: and of course you came and blessed me with your
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: presence and I think that That privately, all gospel artists, privately,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: all gospel artists, they pray that their body of work
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: stands on it just being good work and not categorized.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: And I think sometimes we can't publicly say it. It's
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: because it looks like that our motive and our intent
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: is to be something else. I'm a proud gospel artist.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I do music.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: That talks about my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. That's
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: what I do. But I want my content and I
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: want my stuff to be quality. You know what I mean? Like,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: you know, like one of the biggest examples I have
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: is that when two girls, like if a girlfriend called
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: a girl and said, girl, I got some tickets to
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: this movie that's going to be premiering tonight. And she said, oh, girl,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: come on, let's get cute. We're going to do red carpet.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: And then the other girlfriend says, what kind of movie
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: is it? And then the other girlfriend says, oh, it's
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: a Christian movie. Well, we already know what her other
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: girlfriend's going to do. She's going to do this.
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  Speaker 6: Oh.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Naturally.
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Let me change my outfit.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Right, right. Yeah, like there's no cap in that. The
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: reason why is because the expectation is not as high.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: And that has always broken my heart. And so that's
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: what I have always chased after is that I want
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: to chase after the So when you, it's like, you know, like, okay,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Kurt's about to do music. I don't want it to be, oh,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I want it to be, okay, I want to expect quality.
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  Speaker 1: I want to expect the mix to be fire. I
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: want to expect the beat to be fire. It's because
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  Speaker 1: I'm doing music about the greatest. And if I'm doing
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  Speaker 1: music about the greatest, I want the music to be
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: the greatest.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: And the funny thing is, you know, I don't know
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: if they ever tell you, but I called the label, right?
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: And I told them, I said, they're looking at this wrong.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: And they said, well, what do you mean? I said,
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: y'all looking at this as a gospel record. I said,
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: look at this as Jesus walks.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: One of the greatest gospel songs ever.
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: But it wasn't considered necessarily a gospel record. It was
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: just a good record.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: I'm being funny when I say that. I'm trying to
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: be sarcastic when I say that. It's a dope record.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: And this is a dope record. So I was like,
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: this should have the shot to play on regular. And
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: y'all went for ads and it's doing amazing.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: So.
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  Speaker 4: I'm humbled by that. I love that.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: No, but you don't understand. I'm humbled by that.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: There's two questions I want to ask.
• 4:35
  Speaker 6: Number one, when it comes to the music, in the
• 4:38
  Speaker 6: church they say, come as you are.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir. So how come when it comes to your music,
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: you can't come as you are?
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: I think that there is still a colonialized ideology when
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: it comes to especially the culture of African-American Christianity that
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: we still fight through. It's that I think that there
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: has always been this this mindset whipped no tundra, you know,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: inside of us that you can't do this. You can't
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: You can't.
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  Speaker 1: It's because that's how Western Christianity was taught to people
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: of color. You can't, you can't, you can't, you can't.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, you can't iron on Sunday.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Like you can't do this. You can't go to the movies.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: And so if you want to be good at something,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: it was almost like you're being too prideful. It's too
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: much about you. You're being too cocky. Stay humble. And
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: so these, these colonized ideals have been passed down is
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: because to be free to do something, it has this
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: idea of freedom.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And freedom with Christianity has always been an interesting construct.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Ooh, you preaching now.
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  Speaker 6: Especially because we know that some of the original scriptures
• 5:54
  Speaker 6: were used to keep people enslaved.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: That's my point. And so that colonized ideology has been
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: passed down to our people. And so there's not a
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  Speaker 1: freedom in the idea of to be free in your
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: faith and to be free as a Christian has been somewhat.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: a difficult construct to try to deconstruct.
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: They beat you up, though.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: They beat you up about that single having Glorilla on
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: and having a rapper that not necessarily does Christian rap.
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  Speaker 2: Her name is Hallelujah.
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  Speaker 7: Woods.
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  Speaker 5: Right.
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  Speaker 3: So what do you say to the people that follow
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: you that were upset that Glorilla was on your first
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: single and says she's done other records that don't necessarily
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: represent what you're about, but you put her.
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: On a single?
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I don't say much. I mean, for me, this is
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: a 30-year-old argument. They were saying it with salt and stomp.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Stomp, yeah.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: And it's a 30. It breaks my heart that it's
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: an old argument. And I think more than anything, it's
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: because I'm okay with it. Because first of all, people
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: have the right to judge. Judging in Scripture is a
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: biblical construct. but it was always from the context of
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: bringing people back in. We all make judgment. You judge
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: what you wore today. You judge where you go eat. So,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it's not a sin to judge. It is
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the motive and the intent behind the judgment. It's because
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: the text says, he who winneth the soul is wise.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: So when you are condemning and critiquing, pushing, my question
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: to the community will always be, What is the motive?
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: What is your goal? Is your goal to win or
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: is your goal to push away? And I think that
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: what broke my heart for her is in a conversation
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: we were having when she said, Kirk, everybody says that
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: I can't praise God and I can't do a gospel song.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: She said, but the Bible says that the rocks can
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: cry out. She said, so if a rock can praise God,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: why can't I? And that broke my That hurt.
• 7:49
  Speaker 6: And also, you're bringing people to the word. And man,
• 7:51
  Speaker 6: you just said something that just made me think about it.
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  Speaker 2: Salt was on a stump.
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  Speaker 1: 30 years ago.
• 7:56
  Speaker 6: And then Salt went on her own faith journey. So
• 7:59
  Speaker 6: look where she is now. How do we know that
• 8:01
  Speaker 6: wasn't the beginning stages of her faith journey?
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Preach, preach.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: That's why you can't micromanage people's journey. You can't micromanage
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  Speaker 1: anybody's process. You got to let the process be the
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: process because nobody can determine what that future picture looks like.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Do you have.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: To micromanage when people do verses for you to make
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: sure it's of what you stand on or stand for?
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: I try not to. It's because I try not to
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: edit people's humanity. I'm very free on allowing people to
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: be people. I'm very true about that. It's because Jesus
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: called some some of the disciples that he knew at
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: the end were going, you know, that they were going
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: to cut off dude's ears. And, you know, you know,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. He picked Judas. Judas just
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: didn't show up, you know, and if you got in
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: the flesh, you got to know that that's Judas and
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: he going to do some Judas, Judas in at the
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: end of the game.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: And so, um, I am very at peace with allowing
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: people to have their process is because, um, I would
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: rather you be closer and we walk out life together
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: than to try to manage you from a distance and
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: you feel like you're not good enough. You know, like
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I love people. You know, like I've gone into studios
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: and people are smoking and whatever. I don't tell people
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: to stop smoking. I let people be who they are.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: And in that journey, we just do life together. I'm
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: not here to try to micromanage your humanity. It's because
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: you may be wearing what we call sin on the outside,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: but you don't know what my heart is like. You
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: don't know what I'm struggling with. You don't know what
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: I was just looking at before I walked in. You know,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: I may have walked by and saw somebody, you know,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: saw some female's butt and had some thoughts that, you know,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: and so I'm coming in. I'm going, you know, try
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: to tell you, you can't do this and do this.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: It's like, brother, God is looking at my heart. God
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: is looking at my heart more than what you smoking
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: and what you doing.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: And God know you looking at that as he created it.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? God said, yes, it's my creation.
• 9:59
  Speaker 5: No, it's my manufacturing now.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: That's true, you're right.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: You're right.
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: He put the doctors here.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: God didn't do that.
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: Right, right. Now, speaking of your heart, right?
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: What did you just say?
• 10:10
  Speaker 8: I put the doctors here that we put in the injections.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: There you go, Lauren.
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: You right. I missed that.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. I love her. Shepherds.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: You see how quick that thing?
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: This is turds.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: And I'm glad you caught that.
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: If you wanted to point that out, God bless the doctors. No,
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: that's right.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: All right, look.
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: Speaking of your heart, right? The first song on the album,
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: Free Me Tonight, featuring Jelly Roll. What does that song
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: mean to you? Because it seemed like you were addressing some.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Things, too.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just wanted to do a song.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: that was very clear that I hear what people say.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: And I've heard what people said about me for years.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I understand the conversations by my motives, my intent. Am
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I spiritual enough? Am I godly enough? Do I do
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: this enough? You know, I've heard it all. And I
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: just wanted to have a song. And in the song,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: I'm saying I'm sorry. But I'm also saying it in
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: this double entendre. You know, I'm sorry or sorry. I
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: am what I am. Good, bad, or ugly, this is me.
• 11:08
  Speaker 6: Is this you saying, I don't need anybody's approval anymore?
• 11:12
  Speaker 6: Is that why the album is called I Am.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: What I Am?
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: In a softer context. Not in an arrogant context, but
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I'm in my 50s now, and I feel that if
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: you rock with me, now you rock with me. And
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: if you don't, there's not much I can do to
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: change your view of me. I welcome people who believe
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: that God has put something in me for them, and
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: I'm not everybody's cup of tea, and I've become okay
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: with that now. I'm good that I'm not everybody's flavor.
• 11:42
  Speaker 7: Where are you with your relationship with music when it
• 11:46
  Speaker 7: comes to, you mentioned it in the first song, that
• 11:49
  Speaker 7: it takes you away from your family sometimes, and you're
• 11:51
  Speaker 7: apologizing to your family and your wife.
• 11:53
  Speaker 8: How have you dealt with that back and forth internally?
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Great, great, great question, and I don't know. It's forever tensioned.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: And especially, I think, for men. I think it's a
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: tension that when our callings and our creativity and also
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: the way we provide always kind of come to the table,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: there's always that thing that we always kind of struggle
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: and kind of pulls us. And I don't always have
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the solution. I'm not always good at it. Because I
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: knew music before I knew them.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: If that makes sense. I mean, I didn't have a
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: mom and dad to tell me they loved me. Music
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: was the first thing that told me they loved me.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: And then I wasn't a struggling musician when I got married.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: I was already whoever I was. Why We Sing was out,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: and I was traveling. Silver and Gold was out. Metal
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Leaves From Heaven was out. All these songs were out
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: by the time I got married. And so by the
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: time I had children and all that, I was doing everything.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: So it's always that pressure and that tension that I'm
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, and I got to
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: get out of the bed because a song hit. Or
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: we out to eat. and, you know, I got to
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: run outside and put an idea on the phone is
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: because those things also pay for that dinner.
• 13:06
  Speaker 7: Has there ever been a point where, like, that pressure
• 13:07
  Speaker 7: and attention has made you, like, stop focusing on saving
• 13:09
  Speaker 7: other people just to save what is family and what
• 13:11
  Speaker 7: is home? Like, were you, like, shut down for some
• 13:14
  Speaker 7: time and was like, I need to focus on family
• 13:16
  Speaker 7: and home?
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, probably not. But at the same time, I have
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: tried my best. Like, for example, like, I mean, you all,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: saw publicly what happened with me and my oldest son.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: But before it became public, it was years of challenges privately. Years.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: So it was years of leaving right off the stage,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: catching a plane, you know what I mean? Even leasing
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: planes to try to get back to try to, you know,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: rehab and, you know, trying to help get out of jail.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: You know, just, you know, I want him someday to
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: tell his own story. So I don't want to say
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: too much, but There's been years of intrusion where I'm
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: on tour, I'm in the studio, and you've got to
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: stop to deal with these harsh realities. And so I've
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: tried to do my best, and I will always continue
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: to try to do my best.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: What's your relationship now?
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: It's still difficult. It's still rough. I still pray that
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: he gets the help that he deserves. It's because he matters.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: You know, he's God's child and he matters. And because
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: he still has oxygen, it's never too late.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Your child too, though.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: He's my child too. He's my child too, but I
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: must maneuver in ways that I can't respond to him
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: at 38. the way I would if he was eight.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Got you, got you, got you.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: That as a grown man, I need his participation in
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: his recovery.
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: That he's got to participate in it as well. Is
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: that fair?
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: And it's difficult when you're around somebody that you love, right?
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Because this is your flesh and blood. It's your child.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: My firstborn. That's my firstborn.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Boy, you'd be wanting to put hands on him sometime
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: when they get a little too sporty.
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: He's 38, though.
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: That's what I'm saying.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: In the name of Jesus.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: And that happened when he was turning 34. So he
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: was already kind of like a grown... You know, and so,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: you know, I am not proud of everything I said,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and I'm not proud of how I handled it, but
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: in my heart, I meant it.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: It's two grown men having a conversation.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Listen, listen, I'm going to say it one more time.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: I know I'm little, and I'm going to move on
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: a little bit. Everything I said is because I'd rather
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: do this with me and you than you get out
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: here with somebody that don't love you.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Do this. So we can do this. You know what
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: I'm saying? Because I'm going to do what we're going
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: to do, and then we're going to go get ice cream.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: But you got to understand that you came for me,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: but you're not me. You know? And, you know, I
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: love Jesus, but I'm really about that life.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Jesus flipped tables. Yeah, I am.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I'm really about that life.
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: He ain't going to want ice cream.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: He's going to want steak, though. Ice cream a little young,
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: but he's going to want steak. I was going to
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: ask you, how do you trust it now?
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: That man might.
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: Not even eat for a day.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: He don't know his diet. That man want steak.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: How the hell do you know what you want?
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: But I was going to ask you, at this age,
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: can you trust it now to have another conversation?
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: Because, you know, like that's your son.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: So you feel like anything in the house stays in
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: the house regardless, right? Like you said, we can argue.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: We can go neck to neck. But later we'll go
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: get a meal and say, you know, we can laugh
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: about it, watch the game.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: For sure.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: Can you trust that now with those conversations?
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: No. No. No.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: It's because, and then I found out that some of
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: the motives was also because there was a reality show
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: that happened after that he was on.
• 17:01
  Speaker 8: The Bad Boys Club.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: And some of that was the audition process.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow. Yeah.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Wow, wow, wow. And that broke me. That broke me.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Using you for content is nasty.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: That broke me.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: That broke me to the point that I even said to,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: and I haven't said this before publicly, I'll say it now,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: is that, The individual that even owned the company that
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: the show was on, I went up to him at
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: the BET Awards right after that. And I said to him,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I said, I need your help. I need you to
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: help me save my son's life. Don't put him back
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: on that show. Don't put him back on that show.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: I need you to help me save his life. You
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: a father too. Don't put him back on that show.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: And unfortunately he did. And that continued the demise of
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: my son. That's your... That show was a catalyst to
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: my son's demise. Oh, yeah. You've seen the show. It's
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: not high quality. It's not black men showing love and
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: decency to each other. But that's my son.
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: Fighting.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: It's like, that's my son.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: So when you spoke to Lamel, did he tell you
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: that he wasn't going to do that? Did he give
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: you his word? Like, I promise your son ain't going
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: to be on there no more.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: I just love.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: You know. You said he's the public face and figurehead,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: but you said the owner of that. Everybody know who
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: that is.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: But I just love how you... Do that in there?
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: So what did LaMell say?
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Look at this.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: He looks stupid.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: No, no, no. He looks stupid. He's just good. It's like, see,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: that's why you... Get paid the big bucks.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Thank you, sir. But did he give you his word.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: In that moment?
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Because that's not honorable if he gave you his word
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: and still put him on there.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Damn, LaMell.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: You going to hell.
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: Shout out, man.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Damn, Robel.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: Not because of that.
• 18:48
  Speaker 7: That ain't the only thing that's going to happen.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: We've been going there.
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: You know. Not just like, he's already on his way.
• 18:57
  Speaker 8: This was the exit, Kirk.
• 18:58
  Speaker 7: You can just say that. On that same show, I
• 19:05
  Speaker 7: know that there were conversations about your son's sexuality, too.
• 19:08
  Speaker 8: And that put that in the public eye.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: I love my son. I love my son. And I
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: would love whoever my son loves. I love my son.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: That's my son.
• 19:19
  Speaker 6: You spent your whole career encouraging other people through music.
• 19:24
  Speaker 6: Who encourages you when you're struggling? When you don't feel
• 19:27
  Speaker 6: like being the strong one.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: That's a very kind question. I have a couple of
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: OGs that mentor me. There's a guy named Tony Evans
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: who's fire. And so he spends a lot of time
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: with me. My father-in-law, before he passed, Bill Collins, rest
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: in peace, was a dope man. I have some really,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: you know, Charlie Dates, Kenneth Olsen.
• 19:50
  Speaker 6: Ulmer.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: I've got some OGs that are really, really solid that I.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Call and pull up on.
• 19:56
  Speaker 6: I've heard you talk about religious expectations and how they
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: cause you psychological trauma.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Yes. How do you.
• 20:02
  Speaker 6: Distinguish between somebody holding you accountable spiritually and somebody using
• 20:07
  Speaker 6: religion to shame you or control you?
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Well, it's because of what it does to the whole being.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: It's that when you see that there are areas of
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: your life that become traumatized in the process, you know
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: that that has nothing to do with you walking in
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: a new identity in Christ. It's that when you continue
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: to see things that you could easily pass on to
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: next generations that are not healthy, then you know that
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: that cannot be part of a sanctification process when you
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: become a born-again believer. It's that when we were talking earlier,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: is that when the list of rules of what you
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: can't do overrides the list of what you can do,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: then we know that the new relationship is very problematic.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: It is very problematic is that when you continue to
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: see your mental and emotional capacity continue to just be
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: deconstructed and broken down and it's not making you a
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: better human being. When you see people that really get
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: deeply engrafted in church culture and that's all they know,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: That in itself is not healthy. It's that one of
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: the greatest things that I remember about scriptures when Jesus
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: was praying for the disciples, he was praying to his father.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: It's in the Gospel of John. And God was praying.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, Jesus was praying to God, his father. And
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: he said, God, keep them while they're in the world.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Watch over them and protect them while they're in the world,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: not to take them out. but to protect them while
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: they're in there. See, sometimes church can become this bubble
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: that Christians live in because it's comfortable. And then if
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: you live in a bubble, you're not making any impact.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: And so people, when they see you going out doing things,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh, well, that's too problematic. Well, that's religious trauma.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: That's trauma when you want to keep me in control.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: When you want to keep me always obeying to a
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: certain set of rules that have nothing to do with
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: sometimes the Bible. It's just dogma. It's man-made doctrine, you know? Like,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: there were some people that were raised, can't even go
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: to movies. How you can't go to the movies? How
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: you gonna, you know what I'm saying? How you gonna
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: determine if a woman wearing pants and makeup has anything
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: to do with their spiritual walk? You see what I'm saying?
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: These things are traumatic. Like, it's traumatic when a girl
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: at church gets pregnant in many church communities, that girl
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: had to stand up in front of the church and acknowledge,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: you've heard of this, and acknowledge to the church that
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: they got pregnant and she got set down for ministry
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: while the Negro that got her pregnant is still playing
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: on the organ.
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: It's trauma.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: It's got to be rough for homosexuals too.
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: It's got to be.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Listen, listen, there should not be a group of humans
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: that cannot feel that there's a place in the body
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: of Christ for them to get ministered to and to
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: get walked to is because all of us, all of
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: us are sinners. All of us are patients. All of
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: us need to be in a hospital bed so we
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: can see the doctor, right? Everybody, there should be room
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: for everybody and that we lovingly invite everyone to come
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: get the same medicine. Because if I call you out
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: for yours and allow you to get a pass for yours,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: then that's nasty medicine. That's dangerous medicine. The medicine is
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: for everybody.
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: Do you still believe in church? Do you still go
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: to church?
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: I still believe in church, and I still believe that
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: it's very important that people should not just prioritize church
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: based on your mama go there. or your Amy go there.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: It should be something that speaks to the necessity of
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: what you believe that can change you to be a
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: better person. It shouldn't just always be comfortable. It shouldn't
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: just be all about money. It shouldn't be all about just,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: you know, you living your best life. You know, there
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: should be some things that make you go, ugh. I
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: need to work on it. There should be some tension.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: It shouldn't be all about money cometh and I'm going
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: to blow up and all this. There should be a
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: healthy balance of you being better and sometimes being better.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: If you go to the gym and never it hurt,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: it don't ever hurt when you go to the gym,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: then you may be at the wrong gym.
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: I'm so glad that you said that because since I
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: was a child, I've been going to the same church business.
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: I moved here. I'm not in Maryland. I'm not in
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: Baltimore anymore. I can't make it to the sermons. I
• 24:23
  Speaker 5: can't make it to my childhood church. But I also
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: felt like I kind of outgrew that house as well.
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: And now I go to another church, you know, the
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: perfecting churches in Camden, New Jersey. I go virtually because
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: I'm not able due to my schedule to be inside
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: the house all the time. But I get what I
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: need there. I feel challenged there.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: I feel challenged.
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: Like, I'm not comfortable. The pastor, Pastor Kevin Brown, does
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: not allow you to get comfortable because you can't all
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: the time. You're going through these seasons and these different
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: eras of your life. And I felt like, oh, okay.
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: Because I even look at the Bible differently. I was just,
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: you know, struggling to keep going to my mom's church
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: because that's the church I grew up in. I didn't
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: want to appeal to be, like, disloyal to my family,
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: but I'm like, nah, I got to break away from
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: that because this is where I'm being fed.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: You know, so I'm glad that you just said that.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Is this your church in Baltimore's first time hearing this?
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: Oh my God, I'm going to chill.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: The pastor had no idea he wasn't meeting you.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Breaking Christian news.
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying? Oh my God, I love
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: everybody there.
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: I do want to ask you something about Christianity though.
• 25:32
  Speaker 6: Why do some Christians seem like they have such a
• 25:34
  Speaker 6: hard time accepting that God can work through people who
• 25:37
  Speaker 6: don't look.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Or sound or even live like them.
• 25:40
  Speaker 6: And it makes me think about that because of the
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: collaborations that you do with people like Gloria.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, ask the question one more time.
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: Why do some Christians have such a hard time accepting
• 25:49
  Speaker 6: that God can work through people who don't look or
• 25:52
  Speaker 6: sound or even live like them?
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: I still think that once again, and I said humbly
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: and I said lovingly, you only find some of these
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: subjects in the space of our African-American Christian experience. I
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: believe that there's so much weaponization and trauma that has
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: happened within the Christian context of us as black people
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: that because we don't get the healing that we need,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: we just continue to process everything through broken lenses. When
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: you drive with a cracked windshield, sometimes you're going to
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: swerve because you can't see the lines right.
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: You got to get that windshield fixed.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. That just came off the dome.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: That's just what he can do. That's how he do it.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: You know, facts show. And I think that because we, like,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: we have, we've been against therapy in church. Like, how
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: can you, we are spiritual beings having an earthly experience.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: And if you don't take care of both, something's going
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: to be offset. And so I believe that because we're
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: not getting the healing that we need from all of
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: the painful conversations. Like during this whole period of time
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: with churches, when you would have pastors up there saying,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Why
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: you got choir directors that you paying on salary? It's like,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: it's so traumatizing. There's so much trauma where you've got
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: so many churches that have had church fights and church
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: splits and all of these things. And the members are
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: sitting there going through all of that. So I think
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: that until, you see, I had to calm it down.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I think that until we really address the historic issue
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: of religious trauma within the space of black Christianity, we
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: won't be able to have healing conversations of who does
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: what and the whys and the whos of just life.
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: So true.
• 27:54
  Speaker 7: When we had our live conversation here for the album,
• 27:56
  Speaker 7: you said to me that you thought that you didn't
• 27:58
  Speaker 7: have anything more to say before you dropped this project.
• 28:02
  Speaker 7: Do you feel like now that the music has been
• 28:03
  Speaker 7: out there and the conversations are happening, you're seeing the
• 28:06
  Speaker 7: effect again on people that you see why God gave
• 28:09
  Speaker 7: you more to say for this album?
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: First of all, that's really kind of you.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Y'all, y'all, y'all.
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: First of all, you said you ain't had no more
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: to say. You was going to stop talking.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to make sure.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: Hold on.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to make sure I understand.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 28:21
  Speaker 7: So when we were talking, you said you feared that
• 28:25
  Speaker 7: when you went to go make this, you feared that
• 28:27
  Speaker 7: you didn't have anything more to say.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. Now I'm saying... Basically, that's something that I
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: would think as an author, you know, as a creative,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: sometimes you don't, sometimes you do have that trepidation of,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: do I have another one in me? Do I have, right, right, right. Like, like, right, right.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: You know, like, like you always have that fear of,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, like, will God drop something else?
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: You know, and I have that every album, every album. I'm,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: you know, I have a little bit of timidity, a
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: little bit of anxiety. It's like, you know, like if,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: if God give you a stomp or if God give
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: you looking for you or whatever, it's like, okay, can
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: God do that again? You know, it's like, you know,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: and then we all know this is a young man's sport.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: So the older you get, you begin to, especially as
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: a man.
• 29:15
  Speaker 8: You got young man energy, though.
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: Yes, you do.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a young man's sport, man.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: I think that, you know, the older you get, the
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: more experience you get.
• 29:22
  Speaker 6: So that actually does make you better.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, sir.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: I think it's a young man's sport when you're trying
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: to be young. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: You know, but when you submit your will to your
• 29:30
  Speaker 6: higher power, because God gave you all of this age
• 29:32
  Speaker 6: and experience and wisdom for a reason, you can.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Still create this amazing body of work you did.
• 29:36
  Speaker 7: I don't even think about your age, at all like
• 29:39
  Speaker 7: your music is so timeless it feels like it came
• 29:41
  Speaker 7: out yesterday all of it from the beginning but even
• 29:43
  Speaker 7: with this project and your font size And.
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: It's, uh-uh.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: What?
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Can a man say that to another man?
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: No, a man cannot say that to another man.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Why a man can't? I am what I am. I
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: can say that.
• 29:53
  Speaker 8: Why can't I say that?
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: I like what you did right there.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Why can't I say that?
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: I like that you're back to the album.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Look, I was going to give him a pause, but
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: I just.
• 30:01
  Speaker 6: That pause is in the name of Jesus.
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: So the song, It Gets Better, featuring Tobey Maguire. How
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: did that come about? I know you have a significance with, Houston,
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: he's from Houston.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Rebirth was recorded in Houston live.
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: That's my favorite album, period.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: How did that come together? I love the track, love him,
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: love the Wee Wees, period. That's a powerful song.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, he used to be a youth pastor
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: back in the day.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: He did? Tell me that.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Years ago. So, you know, he's been, you know, like
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: he's just been somebody that's been engrafted into the culture.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Like he knows everybody, knows everything. And we ran into
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: each other years ago at the BT Award. And so
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: we would always tell him I wanted to do something.
• 30:42
  Speaker 8: You be running down on people at the BG Awards.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: That was so funny how he just called out that
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: man's name. Yeah, so it just turned into this moment.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: It was like, you know, we need to work together.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: And so when I was working on this album, I
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: called him about this record. I said, look, I got
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: an idea I think that you could slide on. And
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: while we were at the Grammys, he came to the studio.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: and just woo, woo, woo, and he loved it. And
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: we've been boys ever since. I mean, we were boys
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: before that, but now me, him, and, you know, his wife.
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: And all that.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: I love them, and they love me, and that's really all.
• 31:21
  Speaker 6: What do you say to somebody who's been praying for years,
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: going to therapy, doing everything they're supposed to do, and
• 31:26
  Speaker 6: life still ain't getting better?
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Amazing question. Beautiful question. The first thing that I would
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: say is, is I don't know. It's I don't know
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: why things don't get better for you the way they do.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: And I would say to them, and you have every
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: right to be hurt, upset, and ask God the hard questions.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: I think that this pretty picture that we make people
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: feel like that they've got, well, you know, Lord, I'm
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: still going to bless. No, that ain't how I talk.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: That's not how Jesus talked in the garden. You know,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: that's not how Jesus talked on the cross. He was like,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: why you forsake me?
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: You know, Father, Father, why you? Right.
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: And ouch, you know. Yeah.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. That was crazy.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: And he can't say Jesus Christ because he is.
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: Jesus Christ, so he couldn't say it.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Lord have mercy.
• 32:08
  Speaker 8: We have the song Beautiful Thorns.
• 32:10
  Speaker 7: That kind of talks a bit about the having to
• 32:13
  Speaker 7: go through the things and what comes out of the
• 32:15
  Speaker 7: thorns and having to hold on for God on the project.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Yo, man, I love how y'all just giving that. We
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: love it. Yo, man, do you know that I'm really
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: trying not to shed the thug tears over here?
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: Please, shed them.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, this is crazy. This is crazy. This is my
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: 14th album, man. You know, everybody don't get an opportunity
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: this late in the game to be able to get
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: this big of a platform. And then I'm doing music
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: later here. I don't know if I was supposed to
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: say it.
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: That's all good.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm doing music here live in the moment,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: you know? That is going to be amazing. This is huge.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: But I do want to say, even past the song,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: let me go back to the person because I think
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: the person is more important than the song. It's that
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Being a Christian does not guarantee that you're not going
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: to get cancer. Being a Christian does not guarantee that
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: somebody ain't going to die in a car wreck. Being
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: a Christian don't mean that somebody won't be fatally, their
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: life taken from them. Being a Christian don't give you
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: a pass for a perfect life. That's the biggest thing
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: that I want to be able to say. But what
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know about why things keep happening to you
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: doesn't cancel out what I do know. And what I
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: do know I would not be the Kirk I am
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: today without the deepest waters of pain that I've lived
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: in my life. I've heard my biological mama say she
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: didn't want I heard her say she wanted an abortion,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: but the lady adopted me wouldn't want me. I found
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: that at 53 that the Negro that was my real
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: daddy left 10 minutes from me. Do you know how
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: better my life would have been if I would have
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: had a man in my life? Do you know all
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: the mistakes, all the failures I've made? So I don't
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: know why God would be to me. That's mean. That's cruel.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: It's like. He lived 10 minutes from me all my life,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: and I didn't know him. He didn't know me. That's
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: cruel to me. I don't know why, God, but I
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: can tell you this. When I look back on my
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: life now and see the painful moments in my life,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: I would not be this tender to God if I
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: didn't have some of the deepest waters I had to
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: swim through. Something happens when you go through the bottom.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Because sometimes God will allow us to hit rock bottom
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: to show us he's the rock end.
• 34:28
  Speaker 6: So how do you help somebody hold on to their faith?
• 34:32
  Speaker 6: Especially if they suffering and sometimes you'll beat yourself up
• 34:35
  Speaker 6: and be like, man, am I not believing enough? Am
• 34:37
  Speaker 6: I not doing enough tithing offerings?
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: Am I not praying hard enough? Yeah.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: And I think the reason why you got me weeping, man,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: is because I see people hurting right now. Some people
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: hurting right now, Charlamagne. Folk are hurting. Folk are hurting, bro.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Folk trying to make, folk trying to get bread just
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: for sandwiches, right?
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: And it can look like God could be mean and silent.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: And I think that the reason why church is important,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: let's go back to church. The reason why church is
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: important is that he said, what happens when people are
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: losing their faith is because what church is supposed to be, Charlemagne,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: when you losing yours, I'm supposed to grab you and
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: tell you to hold on to mine. That's what it's
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: supposed to be. It wasn't supposed to be a fashion show.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: It wasn't supposed to be a place of judgment and criticism.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: It's that when you lose in your faith, I'm supposed
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: to grab you and say, this week I got you.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: I'm calling you every day. I'm calling you every day
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: because next week I'm going to need you to call
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: me every day. Like that was the beginning of the church.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: It was called Ecclesia. The first century church, these people
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: were outcasts. They were not the hitters. Like the Roman
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Empire was a pagan place. They didn't believe in a
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: monotheistic idea. And so when you became a Christian and
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: first into Christianity, it was you coming against the Roman government.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Like Nero was putting, he was lighting up people that
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: were Christians and lighting them on fire, using them for streetlights.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: That's how horrible it was in first century Christianity. So
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: there's this whole comfortable Western Christianity idea that we have now.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: That's not how the church started. Jews were being killed
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: for their faith. So when you're having a hard day,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: the church was supposed to be a place, I got
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: you because tomorrow I need you to have me.
• 36:28
  Speaker 7: That made me think about you, though, that what you
• 36:30
  Speaker 7: just said, because your career has been so big, but
• 36:33
  Speaker 7: I feel like you get outcasted.
• 36:35
  Speaker 8: And I don't know.
• 36:35
  Speaker 7: I know you said you got to people behind the scenes,
• 36:37
  Speaker 7: but I don't really know who publicly is always like,
• 36:39
  Speaker 7: but Kirk Franklin, I got you. Like we community wise
• 36:42
  Speaker 7: do it.
• 36:43
  Speaker 8: But I feel like I think as a community we
• 36:45
  Speaker 8: do it.
• 36:46
  Speaker 7: But I think that the conversation always lends to like
• 36:48
  Speaker 7: what Kirk Franklin isn't doing versus like the amazing, powerful,
• 36:51
  Speaker 7: impactful human soul that you always are. And I don't
• 36:54
  Speaker 7: know if the emotion that I'm feeling from you right
• 36:56
  Speaker 7: now is that you feel like you're finally getting that,
• 36:58
  Speaker 7: like people are fighting back for you, like you don't
• 37:00
  Speaker 7: have to fight anymore.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Well, first of all, thank you for that. I think
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: really the emotion really also is because those questions I
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: know are real questions. It's easy to get cute and
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: come up in here and sit with y'all, but we
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: all see what's happening out there. We all see what's
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: happening up under this new This a new regime. Here,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: you know, with American Christianity, the house becomes so politicized
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: and the weaponization of the other side of these policies
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: don't have anything to do with those that say they're
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Christians for black and brown poor people. And so when
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: you see the place that we're in right now and
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: you trying your best to tell people about Jesus, dude,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: it can... it can feel like you're selling Avon. It
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: can feel like you're selling Amway. You know what I mean?
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: It's like you're going door to door. It's like in 2026,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: you still trying to get people to believe in this
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: with all the foolishness going around? And it can bring
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: tears to my eyes because I know how bad things are.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: And I'm doing my best, gang. I'm doing my best
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: to try to let people know that he's still real,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: he's still working in your favor, and he's still got you.
• 38:08
  Speaker 6: I think you're doing a better job than the church
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: because I think sometimes the church... teaches people how to
• 38:14
  Speaker 6: hide their pain better than it teaches them.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: How to heal from it.
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: And when I watch your interviews and I listen to
• 38:20
  Speaker 6: your podcast, what is it, Conversations?
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Den of Kings.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Den of Kings.
• 38:25
  Speaker 6: When I watch that, and I love the episode with
• 38:27
  Speaker 6: Jay Barnett on there, but when I watch that, I'm like, yo,
• 38:30
  Speaker 6: Kirk is trying to teach people how to heal from
• 38:33
  Speaker 6: their pain as opposed to hiding it.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you. Yep.
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we love you.
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: What is your favorite song on the album?
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, you do.
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: Love you to death.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, whenever I'm asked that question, it's an
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: interesting answer because, you know, the gift that God gave
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: me is songwriting. Like, I've never had an album where
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: I've ever co-written with anyone. Like, I write all these songs.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: All these songs that you first wrote three years, it's
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: just me in a room with a piano. That's it. Like,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not in a co-writing room with other writers. And
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of that's because that's not how gospel works.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: really ever really started. You know, most gospel songs is
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: always just one person writing the song. That's how it's
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: always been. So it's not a flex. That's just the
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: origin and the culture of the genre, if that makes sense.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: So when I'm writing all these songs, it's hard to
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: say which one because they all like coming from the same...
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: well it's like a kid you know which one is
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: your favorite kid but one day you may enjoy this
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: one better this one may get on your nerve this
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: one may you know and that's kind of how the.
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: Songs are so you don't even have a favorite album.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: I don't have Even the ones that didn't do good
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: are still ones that I can find something on that
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: that really came to my heart.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: Even with this time, how did that come about? Did
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: you know it was a hit as soon as you
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: heard it?
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: No, I ain't never known a song as a hit.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: I've been doing albums for 33 years. I ain't never
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: known something. I didn't know Stomp was going to be something.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: I ain't never known nothing.
• 40:02
  Speaker 5: Really?
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: I ain't never known nothing.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: I ain't never known nothing. I ain't never known nothing.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: I'm serious. I ain't never known a thing. My manager
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: and business partner, Ron Hill, shout out to Ron Hill,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: the beginning of 25, he said, yo, man, it's because
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: the way I communicate, I always communicate. I'm going to
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: see if God will loan me a song. I always
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: say it like that. Like, you know, like, I need
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: God to loan me a song. And so he said
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: in 25, January 25, he said, yo, man, see if
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: God will loan you something that can kind of be
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: like a little anthem, chant, chant, chant. See, you know,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: see if there's something in you like that. And so
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: I did my same process, go to piano and my
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: drawers and socks. And, you know, maybe like, you know,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: you know, God, you got something for me, you know,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: loan me something. And so I just sat at the piano.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't write to a track. I never write to
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: a track. The reason why I don't write to a
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: track is because people don't come to gospel music for
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: the production and the beats. Like this time hit, but
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: there's so many other mainstream songs that hit, right?
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: That wouldn't seem like a feeling.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: When that beat come on, you.
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: Go, oh my God.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: It's the gospel. It's the words. We're going to be
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: fine this time. We're going to be fine this time.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Made in my mind this time. We need that in
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: this moment.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: And that's why I don't write the tracks. Because, Charlamagne,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: I don't want the track to dictate what I'm saying,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: if that makes sense.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Because people come.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: To gospel for what he said, for what you're saying.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: And no matter how much it slaps, it's like, I'm
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: still coming to gospel because I'm looking for something.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? And so when I write,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: I write just sitting at the piano. Just a piece
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: of paper, write to the piano. And so I was just,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: you know, we're going to be fine.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:42
  Speaker 5: We're going to be fine.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: We're going to be fine. It's time to come to life. Yeah.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: As long as you're there, you've got me. You're in control.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: I got to let go. I got to let go.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: I got to let go. Been through the fire this time.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Thought I was going to lose my mind.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: That was a lie.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: We're going to be fine this time.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: That's a current anthem, man.
• 42:06
  Speaker 6: If God never gave you another hit record, another award, nothing, right?
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Would you genuinely be at peace with what you've already done?
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: It's been more than I could have ever imagined.
• 42:16
  Speaker 7: Mm-hmm.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: It could be more. Charlemagne, I sat in the floor
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: of my apartment right before my very first album came out,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: the one with Sylvan Golden, what I was saying. And
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: I sat down and I wrote down all my bills.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: And I sat down. I was homeless. Car just got repoed.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: And I said, and I was behind on my child
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: support with Carrie, my oldest. I was behind on my
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: child support. I sat down. And everything came up to $ 24, 000.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: I'll never forget it, bro. $ 24, 000. I'm just like, Lord,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: if I can just make $ 24, 000, I'd be good. Just
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: 24 racks. I mean, I had to say racks back then.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: But $ 24, 000, I had no idea. Think about it, y'all.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: I do gospel music. I don't even sing.
• 43:09
  Speaker 5: I don't even sing.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Like, if you ever want to believe that there's a God,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: look at Kirk's life. I do gospel music. I don't
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: even sing, bro. I mean, and gospel got some hitters.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, think about all the people, you know, the
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Jonathan McReynolds, the Fred Hammonds. Come on. Gospel got hitters.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: I ain't trying to be disrespectful, but more than any genre,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: gospel got the hitters. And here come my little... Talking,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: you know? And just, it's like, and all I needed
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: was $ 24, 000. Had no idea. If he does nothing else
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: in my life, he's giving me more than I could
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: ever earn or ever deserve.
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 43:51
  Speaker 5: You know what? You did try to sing when he reigns.
• 43:54
  Speaker 5: You did. When you hit the, oh, oh, oh, oh.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: You sounded just like that.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Just like that.
• 43:57
  Speaker 7: She did. <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL>.
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL>.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL>.
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL>.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL>
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Like somebody.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Ran over my cab.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: You sure did. That is so good, man.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I am what I am, man.
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: That's right, man. We love you, Kirk. We appreciate you.
• 44:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, man.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Thug tears.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: Make sure people know that these are thug tears, though, bro.
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: That's all right.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Just make sure. Make sure everybody understands.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: Where my camera at? Thug tears.
• 44:33
  Speaker 5: Thug tears.
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: Well, you go closest out with a prayer, please, if
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: you don't mind.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: I'll be on it.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, man. Okay.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: I got to hold him a little more.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Man, fuck.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Wow. Wow.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 44:45
  Speaker 5: Please, because she was just sick.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Come on, you need Jesus.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Come on, Brandon. Wow.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: Man, Father, how amazing you are that you show up anywhere, anytime,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: and you don't wait for everything to look the way
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: that we think it needs to look for you to
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: be in the presence. Father, thank you for being a
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: great saving God, Lord, to forgive us for all of
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: our sins, our mess-ups, and still use us in spite
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: of us. Lord, this is an incredible moment to just
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: remind the world Of the greatest love story ever told.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: For God so loved the world. That he gave his
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: only son. Whosoever believeth in him shall not perish. But
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: have everlasting life. And father we know that we will
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: never reach perfection on this side. But every day we
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: want to look more like you. I pray right now
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: for those that are hurting. Those that are discouraged. Those
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: that are afraid. Those that are angry at you. Father
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: let them know. Let them know that father. That there's
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: not a place that you do not care about their pain.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: And they can trust your heart when they don't understand
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: what your hand is doing. And we believe that no
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: matter how dark and difficult life can be, all things
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: are working together for the good of them that love you.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: In your name, Jesus, we praise you. Amen.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Amen. Amen.
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: There you have it.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Thank you, brother.
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: Thank you, brother. It's Kirk Franklin. It's The Breakfast Club.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Good morning.
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: Good morning.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Hold up.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: The Breakfast Club.
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: You all finished or you all done?