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Productivity & Systems for Writers (with Jennifer Harshman) · The Daily Writer

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's the question on every writer's mind.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: How do I get more writing done?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: On this episode, we'll dive into some specific strategies for making it happen.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, thanks so much for joining me on this episode of the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Kent Sanders, and I'm a ghostwriter and professor of communications.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is the show that helps you write amazing content so you can save time, stand out from the competition, and get more leads that turn into customers or clients.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm really excited to bring you this conversation with my good friend Jennifer Harshman, who is the owner of Harshman Services.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Jennifer is a successful and well-known editor, author, ghostwriter, and business owner.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: She's also the editor of the amazing book called Find a Real Editor, Avoiding the Posers and Scammers, which is a helpful guide to evaluating editors for your writing.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell you firsthand that a great editor makes a massive difference in the quality of your writing.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, one little piece of advice to anyone who's writing a book for the first time, don't skimp on the editing because it makes a massive difference.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you might remember Jennifer from episode 178.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, she is back today to talk about how to be more productive as a writer.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm excited that she's going to share systems for planning your time, the importance of doing an energy audit, some habits that will help you be a lot more productive, and much more.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell you firsthand that Jennifer is a real powerhouse when it comes to writing, editing, and getting the work done.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're both members of the Total Life Freedom community, and whenever we list our Friday wins in our Facebook group, and she lists all the things that she's done in the previous week, I honestly have no idea how she gets it all done.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm honored that she's joined us again for a conversation about some of her productivity secrets.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So put on your seatbelt because you're in for a wild ride.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you get out something to take some notes because you're going to be hearing some really great stuff.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get right to the conversation.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Jennifer, welcome back to the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: You have the distinct honor of being in a very elite club, which is the three appearance club on the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're one of like two or three people, so congratulations.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm totally honored to be here and be able to have out any way that I can.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's there really isn't any like major prize for this, so I need to concoct some kind of something.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like back in the 80s, whenever comedians would be on the Tonight Show, they would oh no, I'm sorry, not the Tonight Show, they would be on Saturday Night Live.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And there was this elite group of people who, whenever they hosted a bunch of times, they would be in this sort of real really cool club.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Something maybe I should create a club.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what club that would be, but so anyway, um, we are here to talk about productivity and systems.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And whenever I think of this topic, you are the first person who comes to mind because you're an expert with this, and you just you always have answers and solutions whenever people ask about these kinds of things.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you're always top of mind when it comes to this.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So um the first thing I want to ask about is how do you define productivity?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: When you come to the end of your day or your week, how do you know whether you've been productive?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that is a question I'm not sure I've been asked before.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um how do I define productivity?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: So there are a couple of different ways.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: I could define it by something that is measurable, quantifiable, like a word count or you know, a number of documents that I have written or edited, um, things like that.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that's an easy way to quantify, to count that way.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: But probably a more it's a more difficult way, and maybe a more impactful way is to look at the quadrant two types of things, like how much impact is this piece going to have versus how many words are in it?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that would definitely be a challenging way to measure productivity, and that would be more on a gut feel.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Do I feel like I have done well with this?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: And if so, then I would call myself productive.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so two quick follow-up questions to that.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Number one is for those who aren't familiar with what quadrant two is, can you explain that a little bit?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then number the second question is for you as an editor and a writer, what are some of those quadrant two activities?
• 4:39
  unknown: Okay.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: So quadrant two is part of a four-quadrant system called the Eisenhower matrix.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it has two axes.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: One is important and the other is urgent.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: And where those will cross, if something is both important and urgent, it's considered a quadrant one item.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the fires and the crises that we have to deal with on a regular basis.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then quadrant two is important, but it's not urgent.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: No one is standing there tapping their foot waiting for you to finish this thing.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have a deadline on it, but it's those things that have impact and that will move your business forward, that will develop your relationships, things that you know you need to do.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: But if you don't schedule them, you're just not going to get around to them.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: And they're gonna get pushed off and pushed off until they become a quadrant one item, and then you have a fire that you have to deal with.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then three and four are the things that are not important.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Three is urgent and not important to you.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: It might be urgent and important to someone else.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like, would you please serve on this committee?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, that does not further my goals.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have the time in my schedule for that.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: So that would go into the quadrant three.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then four is neither important nor urgent, and things like TV shows or um junk mail, things like that would fall into that quadrant.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you want to eliminate three and four as much as possible.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: Delegate it or delete it, and then you want to live in quadrant two as much as you can so that you're not living stressed out, so that you're not running off of adrenaline.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: You are working on things that you know will further your business and your relationships.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are some of those quadrant two activities in for you in your field of editing, um, writing, working with clients?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you do a whole host of different things.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: But for you specifically, what are a few of those things?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: Contacting people and maintaining relationships is my number one quadrant two item.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I set a goal for myself to contact 10 people every day.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that's just any type of contact, whether it's I'm answering their email, whether I'm messaging them on Facebook saying, Hey, how did this thing go that you posted about the other day?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: Just wanting to check and you know, follow up with you and uh hear about the good news, things like that.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Some of them may be business-related conversations, but the main goal is to foster those good relationships.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: So relationships being the number one thing, um, are there some other things that that each week you look at your list of things that you need to do and you go, that's for sure a quadrant two thing.
• 7:20
  unknown: Yes.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: So writing my own content is a quadrant two item for me.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Working on books.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, right now I'm working on compiling a digital magazine.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm heading up a group of contributors and designers that we're working on putting together a magazine, and that is a quadrant two item.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: There's nobody standing there waiting for it.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: There's no client who has said, here's a deadline, but it is something that is important, and it's something that I think will help a lot of people.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I would definitely classify that as a quadrant two.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I would define that as a creative activity.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is something you're creating, you're engaging other people in, and so forth.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Where does that fit into your overall goals that you want for your life or for your business?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And here's why I asked that.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of people who are listening, they're doing client work, they're doing things maybe in their day job, but they're wanting to write books, they're wanting to create things, but but maybe they're not sure how that furthers their goals in their life or their business or their finances.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: For you specifically, how does that magazine help you achieve something that's important to you?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Gosh, well, I love helping people achieve their goals and to get the things that they want in life.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so by providing a platform where people who have areas of expertise can put their content and get it disseminated out to more people and get it out to readers, that helps me be able to feel really great about what I'm doing because I'm helping them, I'm providing a platform for them.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's building those relationships with those people.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: So long term, that may end up benefiting me in some way as far as my business.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: But in the moment, it benefits me by bringing me joy.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And do you feel like that is something a lot of people miss when they're trying to build the businesses?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we just overlook the things that bring us joy because we're so busy pursuing things that bring us income or some other kind of immediate result.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's easy to fall into that trap because you have to support a family, you have to pay bills, and those quadrant one items are the things that have those deadlines.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you know that you have, you know, uh at the end of the month, you have so many dollars that you have to send out in mortgage payments and different things like that.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really easy to focus on that and and to focus on it to the to the detriment of your quadrant two items.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to schedule those in.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: You have to make time for them because they won't just naturally come to the fore, and no one's going to stop you and say, Kent, you really should be working on that book that you want to write.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or you know, Kent, you really should go play a musical instrument for a while each day because it serves you in many ways.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't set aside that time and carve out that space in your calendar, it probably will never happen.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And isn't this part of the the overall deal with being an entrepreneur and having your own business anyway?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Is you're in charge, you know, this is why we do this is to have this, you know, so-called freedom.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: But many people don't do well with this freedom.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think many of us struggle with it.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know I do as well, because you have all these things that you can do and that are good things, but sometimes you don't know if they're going to be good things or not until they're finished.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like you you can look in the rearview mirror and go, man, I'm glad I did that thing.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: But you don't really know that going into it.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: But but that's part of why we do this is the unknown and having that freedom to do it, I guess.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, putting constraints on ourselves is one way that we can make sure that we are hitting all of those goals and being productive without being too scattered.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I know it sounds very counterintuitive to say that constraints are freeing because it seems like, okay, well, I'm putting handcuffs on myself or I'm I'm putting fences around my schedule, all of those different metaphors people can use, but it really is freeing because you get to choose which constraints, you get to choose for how long you're going to put them in place, and then you can focus on that, you know, one or two things that you really need to focus on now to get them to completion, or to get to the point where you decide that you don't want to do that.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: If you give yourself enough time, you can examine, okay, I like what I'm doing here, or you know what, this is just not for me.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to set this aside and I'm going to set up new constraints on a new thing that I'm going to do.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do that whenever you edit books?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have, I mean, you've been doing this a long time.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: So whenever you see a book, you probably have a pretty accurate picture of how long it's going to take to do that.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: But did but it is that actually the case is you get a book and you go, it's going to take X number of hours or minutes to do this, and then you're you're pretty close to that.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you can block out the appropriate amount of time during the week for those things.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it took time to get there.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes a book will be a little deceiving.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: You'll think you've got a good handle on how long this one will take.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then once you really get into it, you start to see deeper issues that need to be dealt with.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so then you're going to have to add to that time estimate.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I did learn over the years that if a good rule of thumb for me is 10,000 words per day.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: If I if I set that and say, okay, I have a five, you know, a 50,000-word book, that's five days, that's one week.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: I will then double that time estimate just to be sure that I'm able to do everything it needs and get it turned in on time.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then that allows me time freedom.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I still deal with chronic illnesses, and so there are some days that I'm just not going to be at my best, and I'm not going to be working on client work when I'm not at my best.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that allows me to do a really good job and still be able to take care of myself.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then sometimes life happens.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: You might want to, you know, visit with a friend who has arrived from out of town, different things like that where you'll want to be able to adjust your schedule to okay.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that brings up a really great point.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually had this happen to me recently, where, or not just one time, but that this happens occasionally where I'm a very scheduled person.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I don't like surprises, you know, like surprise birthday parties.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's my worst nightmare.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know what's happening at certain times every day and during the week.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't I don't like to deviate from that once I kind of have my mind set on here's how I'm gonna block out my time today or this week, which which does cause conflict sometimes, you know, in a in a marriage or in a family or with friends or whatever.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um But how how how have you found is a good way to deal with that of being scheduled and having an idea of how you want to spend your time that week, but also let's say a friend pops in from out of town, they go, Hey, um, can we go grab dinner or can we take a day and go do this or that?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: How do you balance those two things when you're running your own business?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I have not now granted, I'm just doing mine part-time, but I have not found a good way to be able to manage that.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe it's just a struggle everybody has, and you you never really manage it.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: You just as it comes, you figure it out.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it is a pretty common struggle, and the best that I can suggest is to have a structure, have your schedule, and whether that's in this hour, this happens, or whether it's a list of agenda items.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: These have to happen today, whether it's at this particular time or whether I start a little later, they still need to get done.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: So two approaches there that you could take.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yes, structure, but also pad in, you know, have some flexibility, like I do with doubling the estimate on a copy edit, for example.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that way, you know, a lot of times I can get right through it and get it done faster than I expect.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then that leaves a day off, or time to work on the magazine, or time to have more conversations with people.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I have that cushion.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the approach that I've taken.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: So part of this is really charging enough for your work to where you don't have to be busy 40 hours a week.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: You can pad in that time, you can you can bake in those blank periods in your schedule so that you're when those things happen, you're still making enough money, and you don't have to be doing low-paying work all the time so that you're stressed out.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: And having multiple streams of income is another thing that really helps.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one of those, um, it seems very pie in the sky, and everyone wants to do it.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's it seems like it might be overwhelming.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: So don't think that you're gonna go right out of the gate and have 17 streams of income and you know, all of that.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's something that you build slowly over time.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: So um, I may have like I have some group coaching programs, and that's recurring income.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know, some people call it residual or whatever.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: I am still actively coaching, but it's set up once, and I'm doing those calls anyway.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm getting recurring fees from that.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then I have some affiliate arrangements and things like that.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: That once I have done the work on it, then it just sits and it can trickle in money over time.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a really, really important principle, too.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that I love to emphasize with people is multiple streams of income.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in fact, my son and I were just having a conversation about this a couple days ago.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm trying to like indoctrinate him early into this kind of thinking, which I think is really important.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, can you help us um help us a little bit with how do you plan your week?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, or or do you do you plan your weeks or do you plan month?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do you plan your days?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: How do you think about your time and blocks of time and scheduling the big rocks or those important activities that you have to get done?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: I love that question.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: I do think in terms of weeks, and I start with my quadrant two items on.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I use a Google Calendar and I schedule my day starting at 2 a.m.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't always wake up at 2.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I will sleep until my body is ready to wake up.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes it's two, three, four.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Once in a while, it's as late as seven o'clock in the morning.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: So all of that time before 8 a.m.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: is my time.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Time to work on my own content, time to work on my own education and you know, constant skill building.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: So if I don't wake up right at two, if I wake up later in the day, then that just means I have less time for that, but I'm not um drawing away from any of my client work or any of my scheduled calls or anything like that.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I put that in in the first block of the day.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then I have, you know, 8 a.m., I do morning prayers and things like that with my family, homeschooling my youngest still.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I have time set aside for that.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then during the day, the typical nine to five type of schedule, um, I have some client work and I have scheduled calls, but I also have a nap or rest time from noon to two every day.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that way, if I do wake up really early, I'm probably going to need that rest time.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: And even if I don't feel like I need it, I still use that as downtime because that's the way I maintain my health.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I learned a long time ago through stressing myself to the point that doctors told me to go home and pick up my coffin.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I learned that I have to take good care of myself.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: I have to get plenty of rest.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: So that is a non-negotiable in my calendar.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: And at first I got a little bit of pushback from that because uh people wanted me to be available during the typical work day.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, you know what?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm available at four in the morning if you need me.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm also available until, you know, until dinner time at night.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I I felt that I had plenty of availability for people and I needed to take good care of myself.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I drew that line and said, this is when I rest, or when I'm reading, or some other type of relaxation.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, those are great tips.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you take a nap every day and have some downtime.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: I took a nap a couple hours ago.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I'm here in my office and um I always lean back in my office chair and I put a towel over my eyes to block out the light.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's amazing how much that that helps.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like to just block out that light or having like a mask or something like that.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that nap is really key.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what so what's going on with the 2 a.m.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: wake up time?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know a lot a lot of people listening to this are going, what is that all about?
• 20:47
  unknown: Okay.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: So when I first started with my business, I was already homeschooling my kids.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I they were much younger, of course, a decade ago, and very energetic and needed all of my attention when they were awake.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I knew if I was going to build a business, I would need to do it when they were asleep or at a play date or something like that where I could arrange to have that time.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I started by getting up half an hour before they did.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I would get in as much work as I could before they got awake before they got up in the morning.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then when they took a nap, I would work some more.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I gradually moved that time back by about half an hour as I would adjust.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was getting up around three o'clock in the morning, and all of a sudden I just started waking up at 1.38 a.m.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: For four days in a row.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, this is odd and very precise.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: Why 138 a.m.?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I said, okay, brain, I'm gonna set my alarm for two and we're gonna wake up at two o'clock.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that became my wake up time.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then after a while, I could just turn that alarm off.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: And now I just wake up whenever I'm well rested.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: What time are you typically going to bed in order to wake up at 2 or 3 a.m.?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: I am typically going to bed around 9 or 10 p.m.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: And remember, I do have that two-hour nap available to me.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's um quite possible for me to get plenty of rest with that schedule.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: See, that's really fascinating.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Was it Einstein or Thomas Edison or some historical person, I forget who it is, who would do that kind of a thing.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: They would sleep just a handful of hours, then they would take a nap during the day.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: So they would break essentially break up their sleeping into really two, not not really equal chunks, but two sizable, but smaller chunks in the evening and then in the middle of the day.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that obviously if you've only had four hours of sleep or so or five, when you get to to noon, you're really going to need a nap.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Then how is your energy level from when you wake up until let's say like nine o'clock at night?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost as high as it would be in the morning.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I do have kind of an S wave of my energy.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of people do have they have a wave to it.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's not one peak and then totally flat, and it's not flat all day long.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we do have those circadian rhythms where we're gonna have a higher peak and then a valley and then a lower peak again.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what mine looks like.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like I might have an eight or nine energy in the early mornings, and then my peak after my nap is around five or six.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it's noticeably lower, but I can still get some things done.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Are there specific foods or drinks that help you with your energy or specific things that really like you try to avoid because they suck your energy or because they just make you crash or anything like that?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Carbs make me crash.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: If I have a high carb lunch, then um I'm absolutely taking the nap that day.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: But they're so good.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I know.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they are.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so if I if I try to balance, and usually the less I eat in the mornings, the better I'm going to be as far as my alertness.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I might skip breakfast, or breakfast might be a cup of coffee, and that's it.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then I drink, I drink a gallon of water a day as just kind of a a habit.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I stay hydrated and you know, all of that.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that I think helps me to keep my brain going.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: See, that's really fascinating because I just started intermittent fasting.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I skip breakfast and don't start eating until like 10 or 11, and then up through dinner time.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: So and I think most, you know, we we were all raised with this idea, I think, of you've got to have breakfast, it's the most important meal of the day, blah, blah, blah.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I find that I I kind of have more energy if I skip breakfast.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: I know that I probably shouldn't say that, but that's my experience.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of people are having that experience.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's why intermittent fasting has become so popular.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you're not alone in that.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's that's interesting.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad I'm not uh strange with my habits with that.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now, something that you uh that you mentioned is doing personal development in the morning.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: What kinds of specific things do you do for your personal development?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there's there's different things and it changes depending on how much time you have and all those kinds of things.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: But in general, what are some of the things that you do for that personal time before you start your workday?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: So the first thing that I do every morning after I grab a cup of coffee, I sit down in a chair and just I open my logbook or my journal.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: I have a bound overing journal, and I call that my brain bubbling time.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I just sit there quietly and whatever ideas come to mind, I will try to capture those and write them down.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't put a time limit on that.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it might be five or 10 minutes.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I might be there for an hour and a half.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot depends on what else I have in the day and how many ideas come to me.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then I will listen to a podcast or some type of input.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'll either listen to a podcast or I will read part of a book.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I might look through some blog posts that I've saved in my browser that I want to make sure that I get to when I have quiet time so that I can read and absorb them.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I also um will flip through scripture and um the Chicago Manual of Style.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I do constantly study and learn new things so that I'm I'm constantly developing my skills as I go along.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've never heard anybody flip through the Chicago Manual of Style like um on purpose.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm just kidding.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh meaning, you know, of course we do it as part of our jobs, but most people hear that and they're they associate that with pain, you know, like from writing papers in college and and that kind of thing.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: But uh as a as a teacher at a college where we use MLA, I have a particular fondness for Chicago because it's like I really don't like MLA, but anyway, that's beside the point.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, uh one final question here before we we wrap this up.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And man, I could go for hours on this stuff.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna have to schedule a follow-up conversation about productivity because there's a lot of a lot of stuff here.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you talked before in the stuff that you sent me, you talked about an energy audit.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really curious what that is because I've never heard of that before, but it sounds really important and something that might be helpful.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so do you remember when I was talking about my S curve of my energy?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: The way that I found that out was by conducting an energy audit.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: And a really easy way to do that is open an Excel spreadsheet or Google Sheets or something like that, and along the bottom put the hours of the day from the time that you wake to the time that you go to sleep.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: Do not wake yourself up at night, or if you're napping or anything, do not wake yourself up to gauge your energy level.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to assume if you're asleep, this is zero.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then hourly throughout the day when you're awake, you're going to just pause for a few seconds and gauge what your energy is.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that can be physical or mental or both.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then you just mark it on a scale of one to ten.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: How energetic do I feel?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: How focused do I feel?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Can I do great work right now?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: Or is this a time for mindless activity?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it just takes a few seconds.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: You just gauge that, jot it down, maybe put an X along, you know, one to ten along the left side there, and just chart that.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: And you do that for a week, just every day, whenever you think about it, chart it.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then, and you don't want to do just one day because maybe that day's off.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're gonna base your schedule off of one day that's not representative of how you feel most of the time, then you're not gonna feel very good.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you're gonna run into some conflicts with that.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why I say do about a week, and that will give you a good spread.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then you can chart that with a line chart and you'll see the curve or curves that you have with your energy, and then you can start basing your schedule on that.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, for instance, if you know that you are highly energetic in the afternoon and evening, then you don't want to be getting up at two or three in the morning and trying to do your most important work then.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: You want to put the things that tax your brain in that time when your brain is working the best.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: That makes a lot of sense, and that probably explains why a lot of people feel frustrated by not being as productive as they want to be.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not because they're they're not working hard enough or that they're not disciplined enough.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's just they're they're trying to do the most energy-demanding activities at the time of day when their energy is the lowest.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it is just that just that simple.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and it's and there's nothing wrong with them.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's something I really want to stress because each person is different.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, there are a couple of common patterns, but it doesn't mean you have to fit into one of those.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, the the most common that we've seen is nine to five.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's since the industrial revolution, that has been the cookie cutter.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: And if people didn't fit into that, then they felt like failures or they felt like there was something, you know, something wrong with them.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't mean that there is.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you're not a lark, maybe you're a night owl, maybe you're the pigeon, which is the um, you know, at the middle of the road.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, something that has concerned me for a long time, and I've never talked about this publicly, but a few years ago, I I just started to feel a little bit uneasy with I felt like I just wasn't achieving that much in life.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I just felt like, man, why am I not?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: I just seem can't seem to get it together.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't seem to be as productive as some of these other people that I follow and authors and all this stuff.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it dawned on me one day that a lot of people that um that I was following were either single adults or they were married but had no kids.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, that so explains a lot of it.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because and I'm saying that because I didn't I didn't realize that, oh, you know, we have these seasons in life, and if you have kids, your life is very different than someone who doesn't have kids.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you're single, that's different than if someone who's married or and has and or has kids on top of that.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: So so I guess what I'm saying is there's something to be said for looking at how our life is structured and our life search situation, the season of our life, and just kind of going with the flow and not looking at somebody else and going, well, how come I can't do it the same way as they do it when our energy level may be different or our life situation may be different?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: And another thing to keep in mind is that you know you mentioned seasons.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: There are seasons, and just because you're not as productive as you think you need to be, that doesn't mean that nothing is happening.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Growth often happens under the surface.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: So it may be a season where you are taking in those inputs and you're processing things, or you may be in a season where you are outputting quite a bit of content.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's okay to go through those different cycles.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that is such an important thing to remember because sometimes those those periods where we feel like we're failing and we're not achieving and things are not going well, it's those things that drive us to the other things that where we will succeed or that will lead us to a better place.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, those people that you're you're comparing yourself to, they also have a staff.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: So that's something to keep in mind that you know most of them, if they have reached a certain point, they have a team.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so it looks like they're producing all sorts of wonderful things and they're doing it, but they're doing it with help that you might not have.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: But you you have partly you and some of the people have actually inspired me because I know you you have people um who work for you in your agency, and that has inspired me really just in the last few weeks to have my son start helping me in my business.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I've trained him in some things with specifically with this podcast, but he's gonna start working on one of my clients' podcasts, doing show notes for them really, really soon.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: So there's something to be said for taking a cue from those people who are ultra successful and going, hmm, what are they doing that I'm not doing?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: And how can I you know, instead of that reaction of, wow, you know, and I'm I'm so discouraged or I'm not as good as them, there's something to be said for looking at them and going, okay, they must be doing something right.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: So what can I learn from that?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of just kind of slinking back and being depressed, which is what so many of us, especially the us creative types, what we tend to do sometimes, maybe I'm just speaking for myself.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's pretty common.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just you.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: It is that's if you can take one little step, you know, every day, one little step will move you forward.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: And if you can look at how can I emulate something that they're doing, even if it's on a smaller scale, I can't build a whole team right now, but I can have my son do this one task.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: Congratulations.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was it was kind of scary and a little concerning.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then once I did it and he started doing stuff, I was like, holy cow, he's way faster at this than I am.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And many times, you know, teenagers are a lot faster at especially tech stuff.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, why didn't I do this two or three years ago?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you've done it now.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've done it now, so that's good.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Jennifer, this has been a blast, as always.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I always learn a lot from you, and I'm glad we're doing this uh kind of ongoing series.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: So um I'm definitely enjoying this, and uh, hope that our listeners are as well.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I'm sure they are, because this is a lot of good stuff.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks, I appreciate that.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me, as always.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Jennifer.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: I loved talking with her and being able to extract some of her productivity secrets.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she is probably the most productive person that I know.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: She just gets so much stuff done.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really thrilled that she was able to share some of those things with us today.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Here are my three biggest takeaways.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, focus on quadrant two activities.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now, quadrant two or Q2 activities are the things that are important, but they're not urgent.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the things that we know we should be doing, but sometimes we put them off because there's there seems to be something more important to do in the moment.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: However, those quadrant two activities are the things that will really help grow our business and help us to be more successful as writers.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got to focus on those Q2 activities.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Jennifer mentioned that her number one Q2 activity is building relationships.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: And she mentioned that she makes 10 contacts per day of any type.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that is great advice because number one, it's doable, and number two, it's a very simple and actionable metric.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: When you make the 10 contacts in whatever form, whether that be email, Facebook messages, LinkedIn messages, phone calls, Zoom calls, whatever it is, when you make those 10 contacts, you know that that you've reached your goal for the day.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: So really consider what your quadrant two activity is.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I can I can tell you from my own experience that building relationships is probably the most important thing that you're going to do, especially if you're approaching your writing as a business.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're writing for clients or you're writing to build a business of any kind, those relationships are really, really critical.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: So think about what your quadrant two activities are.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope that building relationships is definitely up there high on your list.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Takeaway number two, to kind of continue with this theme: start your planning with Q2 items.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: In practice, this means that you block out time on your weekly calendar or monthly or however you plan, that you block out time for those activities that are important but not urgent.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now, along with building relationships and blocking out time to you know be on social media or send emails or do Zoom calls or however it is that you build relationships, as writers, writing is is up there with that too, because if we don't get the writing done, then we don't have anything.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, writing is sort of like the whole deal if we're writers.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: So block out that writing time on your calendar and guard it with your life.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason is because, well, it is our life.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if we're writers, that is in our blood.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's our creative life blood.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got to block out time to do it.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: And don't feel guilty about it.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really important.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're listening to this podcast because you're a writer.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: So don't ever feel guilty about blocking out that writing time.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it's just 10 or 15 minutes per day, that's at least something that you can use as a building block for all the cool things that you're going to accomplish with your writing.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: So put that time on your calendar and guard it with your life.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Then finally, takeaway number three is simply schedule time for yourself.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Jennifer mentioned that the time before 8 a.m.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: is her time.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: And again, she's giving us some great advice here.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: She's giving us an example of setting aside that time to take for yourself.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: And for you, it may be something different than it is for the next person.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's journaling, prayer, Bible reading, reading personal growth books, listening to podcasts, going for a walk, doing whatever it is that you need to do to get yourself ready for the day.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Again, don't feel guilty about doing this because if you don't take care of yourself, you can't take care of other people.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Our self-care, our personal growth, our mental health, that's really, really critical, especially right now as we're going through this global pandemic and all the craziness happening with it.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm asking you to take some time for yourself because I need you to take time for yourself.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: I need you, and the world needs you, the writing community needs you to be at your best.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't do it for yourself, do it for the other writers in the world who need you to be at your best.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, friends, that is all I've got for this episode.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: This has been so much fun.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love having Jennifer on, and I want to give her a massive thank you for being a guest on this episode and taking the time out to share with us.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, I thank you for listening.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: There are tons of podcasts out there, and I so appreciate the fact that you're listening to this one.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: As always, remember that you can find lots more resources for writers at KentSanders.net.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, remember that your writing has the power to change people's lives.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll see you in the next episode.