Latest / Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood / 214. Emanuela Orlandi - The Vatican Girl

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214. Emanuela Orlandi - The Vatican Girl · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Hello delicious friends and welcome to Who Did What Now?
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: The history podcast that is not your history class with
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: me your host Katie Charlewood, history harlot and reader of
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: books and I am full of rage. incandescent rage like
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: first of all it is a sad state of affairs
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: when I am the voice of reason in the parents
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: whatsapp group chat like I managed to avoid this for
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: four whole years no actually I think it was close
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: to five maybe six maybe six years actually yes yes
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: it was because because I was doing really well right
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: my ex was in the group chat I wasn't in
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: the group chat I was like I don't have to
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: deal with this you just pass on the relevant info,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: because I just can't be dealing with that, right? Then
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: one day, my mum goes to the school for Grandparents
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Day or one of those kind of days, and something
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: happens and she ends up giving them my number. Context.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: In Ireland, kids go to school national, so like a
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: national school, and they're there for eight years. They then
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: go on to secondary school for another six years-ish. So, I'm...
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I'm mainly a lurker in the group chat, you know,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: occasionally popping in with a sarcastic comment when someone is
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: acting like a tit. But long story short, our school,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: or our kids' school, I should say, along with 275
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: others in the country, again, that's to my knowledge, right?
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: It was a victim of a bomb scare. Now, there
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: was a letter slash email going around that, you know,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: if it was the one, if it was the one
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: that was actually sent, It was definitely a hoax designed
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: to trigger Islamophobic propaganda, right? And a bunch of parents,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: they're freaking out and they're like, they're acting like as
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: if the principal didn't have the school swept by the guardie, right?
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I know for a fact that she was up all night.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Like this is the day after industrial action was taken.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: So the school was closed and nobody was inside, right?
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: So the threat comes through the day of the industrial action. Well,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: everyone is outside protesting. And then, you know, she has
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: to contact the Gardaí. And so they're like, listen, we
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: will come to you. It could be middle of night.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: We don't know. We're going to have to, you know,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: we'll get through you because, you know, they're sweeping schools
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: all across the county. And she is sitting there fully dressed,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: like making sure her phone is charged so that she can,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: you know, receive the call from the cops so she
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: can go to the school. She didn't sleep the entire night.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: So she was there. right like it's it's okay now
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: some people are clearly blow-ins who forgot that this is
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: a border county and bombs are not a new concept
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: to the police force here and apart from that right
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I then had to break down the purpose and follow-through
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: of acts of terrorism right I had to explain to
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: them like how this would work out and why we
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: were unlikely to be targets along with the fact of
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: you know, the wording of this email, if his email
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: was correct, like, we're fine, right? Like, this was an
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: extreme assumption. So that was Thursday, right? Friday, I wake
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: up to the news of another school shooting in the
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: US and I am so fucking angry, right? I am
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: angry that people care more about guns than they do
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  Speaker 1: about children. I'm angry that a country is banning books
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: to keep children safe but won't regulate appropriately for weapons. Right?
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: And I do not understand how so many people, how
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: so many elected officials and lawmakers and how many parents
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: and grandparents can sit back and shrug their shoulders and
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: show that those four people murdered are disposable. And I'm
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: fucking sick of seeing this good guy with a gun
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  Speaker 1: Bullshit spread around, celebrating this poor man's trauma. He was
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: a carpenter on lunch going past his kid's school when
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: he saw a threat to his children's lives enter the school.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: A split-second decision. Like, he would have ran past the
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: bodies of children on the floor of a special needs classroom.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: He shot the gunman who was tackled by a teacher.
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  Speaker 1: He eliminated the threat. And then he had to come
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: to the realisation that he shot and killed a 16-year-old boy.
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  Speaker 1: He had to kill a child to protect more children,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: as some lay dead and dying all around him, all
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: the while not knowing whether his own daughters were alive
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: or dead. And one of the children who was shot,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: the seven-year-old in a wheelchair who was shot in the face...
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: He knew that little girl and he had to look
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  Speaker 1: at that and he now has to deal with the
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: trauma of all of that. The man is traumatised and yes,
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  Speaker 1: he had all the legal requirements for his weapon, as
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  Speaker 1: he fucking should, but I don't want to hear about
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  Speaker 1: how criminals will still get access to guns. First of all,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean we should make it easy for them.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: And also, people steal cars, but that doesn't stop you
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: all from passing a driving test and to have to
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: register with the DMV, right? And anyway, it's just, okay, like...
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Listening to the stories of what was coming out of
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: that school, right? Every target in that room was hit.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: He hit every target in that room. There were boys,
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  Speaker 1: nine years old, hiding behind hiding behind lockers and his
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: friends cried, sobbing, terrified. There was a nine-year-old girl hiding
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: under a sink who heard the words, please, please don't,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: a gunshot and then silence. Like, it's bad enough that
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: anyone who survived is going to be traumatised for life.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: It's bad enough that this whole thing had to happen
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: in the first place and it's bad enough that all
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: that's going on and you are more focused on the
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: weapon than you are on the people. And I just,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: I don't, I don't get it. I don't understand. You're like, oh,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: we have the right to bear arms. Yeah, sure. Yeah,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: because you actually had bears entering your property. Like, Guns
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: don't kill people. Cars kill people too. Yeah, but a
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: car has another job, right? Like, the purpose of a
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: car is to transport you from one destination to the other.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: The purpose of a gun, like, is to end life.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: That is why it exists. Whether you're, whether you're hunting,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: whether you're, whether you're, I don't know, a soldier, like,
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: that is the purpose of the weapon. The weapon is
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: there To execute. Like, that is the purpose of it.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: And I know plenty of lefties and liberals who own guns. Like,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: people have guns. They just want them regulated. Like, nobody
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: needs an assault rifle. Like, you have no reason to
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: have one. Like, especially if you're a hunter. What the fuck?
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: If you need an assault rifle to shoot a deer...
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you need an assault rifle to shoot
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: a fucking deer... You are terrible at hunting. And also,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: you're not the one who's going to have to pull
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: all the fucking shrapnel out of the meat, you pisspot.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: But anyway, I know what you are thinking. You're thinking, Katie, please,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: dear God, quit your jibble-jabble and fact me. In fact, you,
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  Speaker 1: I will. But first, we've got to get our source on.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Our sources are The Mystery of the Missing Girl, The
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Pope and The Rome Underworld by Peter Corradi. Extra Omnes,
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  Speaker 1: The Infinite Disappearance of Emanuela Orlandi by Gaggia Cianciarelli. The
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Vatican Cold Case by Adrian Holden. Emanuela Orlandi and Ettore
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Majorana by Carlo Artemi. Acta Apostolica Sedis. I want to
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: apologise for my accent, now I can't help myself. the
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: documentary series on Netflix, Vatican Girl, and I also read
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: many translated articles from La Repubblica, Correa de la Sera,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: La Stampa, La Nazione, and La Guttizia. No, La Giustizia. Oh, God.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: We also had articles from, goodness, BBC News, LA Insider,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: The Huffington Post, back when Huffington Post used to, you know,
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  Speaker 1: do news, and of course, my existence as a cradle Catholic. So,
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  Speaker 1: are you sitting comfortably? Good, then let's begin. In 1983,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Emanuela Orlandi went to a music lesson and did not return.
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  Speaker 1: This 15-year-old girl is still to this day the only
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Vatican citizen to go missing and is one of the
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: biggest mysteries in Italian criminal history. This is the case
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: of the disappearance of Emanuela Orlandi. But in order to
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: understand this whole thing, we need to slip into some context.
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  Speaker 1: Let us start with the Vatican. So the Vatican City
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: is an independent country and it is the smallest independent
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  Speaker 1: sovereign nation in the world. Like, it is smallest by
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: both population, like population density and population, and area, right?
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: So it has an area of less than two miles squared.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I think it's like 1.936. Like, it's small, right? And
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: it has somewhere between... 500 and 600 citizens. It can
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: go up to, like, 800 or so. But there are
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: currently around, like, 100 and something, like, secular citizens. So
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  Speaker 1: the majority of the citizens there are members of the clergy.
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  Speaker 1: And there are very few, like, secular non-clergy, effectively. The
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Vatican City is an enclave within Rome. Like, it's a
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  Speaker 1: city but there's no, like, passport controls, like between the
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Vatican and the rest of Rome. It does have walls, though.
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  Speaker 1: It put up fortification at one point because, you know, war, battles,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: things just kept happening. There's a lot of unrest in
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Italy for quite a long time. Now, within its perimeter,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: it has the Sistine Chapel, St Peter's Basilica, and the
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Apostolic Palace. It also is home to Sancta Seres, the
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Holy See. You know what? My mum's going to be
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: listening to this and just being like, your Latin is awful.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: My mum speaks Latin. I don't. And it's not because
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: she's fancy. It's just because she's old and everybody learned
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  Speaker 1: it back then. She's going to fucking kill me when
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: she hears this. So the Holy See is the governing
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  Speaker 1: body of the Catholic Church and, of course, the Vatican.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: So you'll see this. interchangeably quite a bit. So, people
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: will say Vatican, but what they really mean is the
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Holy See. Like, they were like, oh, the Vatican did this,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: and it's like, the Holy See did it. The Vatican
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: is the place. The Holy See is the government. So,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: the Vatican City is both a theocracy and an absolute monarchy. So, like, effectively,
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  Speaker 1: the Pope is the King of the Vatican, except King
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: isn't the word. But, yeah. Now, The leader, yeah, so
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  Speaker 1: the leader of this is the Pope. The Pope is
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  Speaker 1: like the head honcho. He's like, like direct line to
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  Speaker 1: God kind of thing. He's the head of the Catholic Church.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: So it's kind of, it's kind of like having a king,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: except the king is voted for and then typically dies
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: in that position, right? Now, I didn't know he had
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: a king. Well, I didn't vote for you. Yeah, they
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: voted in the King. If you're interested in the whole, like,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Pope vote process, you should watch the film Conclave, because it's, like,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: pretty spot on. Like, it's really good. As I have
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: said many times in the past, geography is political. And
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: that's how borders exist, okay? So, initially, Popes didn't live
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: at the Vatican. They were in sort of the Lateran
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Palace in Rome up until like the 1300s. Then sort
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: of for a period of 70 years, they were over
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: in Avignon in France before heading back to the Vatican. Now,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: right about the Renaissance, you know, they moved to the
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Palazzo del Quirinale. And there was like this whole thing
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: with the Holy Roman Emperor... And that's another story for
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: another day. I think it's like bang smack in the
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: middle of the Renaissance that the Pope moves to the
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Palazzo del Quirinelli. Now, all the while he's ruling over
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: these Papal States until the Kingdom of Italy takes over
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: in 1870. So they just kind of used to be
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: like these little, you know, like those Papal States, those principalities,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: there was all this kind of stuff. And then, I
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: think actually the Papal States come into play in, I
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: think at least one of the Assassin's Creed games back
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: when it was like Ezio, Ezio Auditore di Forense. Yes,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: so yes. The Papal States exist up until 1870 when,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: you know, they are dissolved because the Kingdom of Italy
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: is now like the unification of Italy. And so the
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: King of Italy moves into the Palazzo And the Pope
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: just kind of slaps back into the Vatican again, right? There's,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: and this thing happens for years. They're like trying to
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: kick the Pope out. And I think it's like the
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: last Pope after, like when it starts to change in
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: about 1929, like the last Pope was like, I am moving.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: And he gets, I think the nickname, the sitting Pope.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: There's one of them. Anyway, so in 1929, is part
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: of the Lateran Treaty, Vatican City becomes a country. Now,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: the Vatican City isn't a UN member, but the Holy
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: See is, right? So the Holy See is part of
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the United Nations, but as an observer, so it can't
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: like vote on shit, but they can just say stuff.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: They can look and observe and understand. Now, I will
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: do at some point, like if you want, if you're
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: interested in, I will do a whole series on popes, right?
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: And the weird shit they did. Now, if you're interested,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: I can absolutely do that. But now I'm going to
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: cliff notes this as best as I can. So the
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Vatican as we know it now is just like, I
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: think it's like technically under a century old. And citizenship
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: in the Vatican differs from most places as it's not
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: by like birth or blood, right? You have to have
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: your citizenship approved by the papal authority, which only occurs
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: if you work for the Vatican or the Holy See. Like, okay,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: even the passports are really interesting because the Vatican exists
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: as both a sovereign territory and a separate sovereign religious
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: and diplomatic entity. Basically, there are three passports. So you've
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: got a Vatican City passport, which is issued by the
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: government of the Vatican, like by the city-state, and is
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: only available to Vatican citizens. And it's valid for five
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: years a pop, right? Now, so if you have this passport,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: your spouse can get it and so can your children.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: It's like your family can get it. Then you have
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the Holy See Diplomatic Passport. It is issued by the
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Secretariat of State and to members of the Holy See's
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Diplomatic Service. Basically, for people who are representing the post diplomatically. Then,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: magic door number three, there is the Holy See Service Passport.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: This is for people who are, you know, they're without
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: diplomatic status, but they are still undertaking official Holy See duties. Now,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: this is available to both Vatican citizens and non-citizens. Now,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: you can get it for like a temp service for
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: two years, or you can get it for like five years.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the Holy See passport, the diplomatic one, is
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: a 10-year passport. So it's like the longest out of
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: all of them. So your position and function within the
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Vatican determines your citizenship. So you could work in church admin,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: or you could be the Swiss Guard, like, you know,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: for the term of your service. You could be a
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: papal diplomat or Vatican-based, like a priest or a cardinal
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: or something, right? And again, as I said earlier, if
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: with the Vatican passport, if you have Vatican citizenship, your
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: family can also be entitled to it. So your children
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: have that up until they're 18, and your spouse has that,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: and they'll lose it if you get divorced, right? They'll
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: lose it if you get divorced, because also not a
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: very Catholic thing, and your children lose it when they
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: get 18, but then they apply in their own right, okay? Now,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Very quickly, sidebar, sidebar. The Swiss Guard are a 135-member
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: army which exists specifically to protect the Pope. Now, do
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: not let their jester-like appearance fill you. These are some
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: of the deadliest men on the planet and they chose
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: to join the smallest army in the world. Like, they're
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: in their little stripy trousers. Like, that's their dress uniform,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: by the way. And dress uniforms are always a wee
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: bit ridiculous, and I think we should appreciate that. Like,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever seen them out of dress uniform,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: and that's probably by design. But in order to join
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: the Swiss Guard, you have to be between 19 and
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: 30 years old. You have to be Catholic. unmarried, and
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: at least five foot and eight and a half inches,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: like tall. Like, because apparently that half is really important.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: So basically you have to be taller than me to
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: become a Swiss Guard. And these guys, I mean, we
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: make fun of them because they look a bit ridiculous,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: but they have this like big weapon thing Which is,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: I don't, it's like a spear, but an axe. It's like,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like the ancestor of the Swiss army knife, right?
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Because it can do so many things with the way
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: it can maim you. But yeah, yeah. These wee harlequins here, you,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: you do not want to fuck with these boys. Emanuela
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Orlandi was born on the 14th of January 1968 in Rome, Italy,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: to Ercole, Erlandi and Maria Pezzano. She was the fourth
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: of five children born to the couple. She had an
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: older brother, Pietro, two elder sisters, Natalina and Federica, and
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: a younger sister, Maria Cristina. Ercole was a clerk for
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: the prefecture of the Pontifical House, And he was also
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: messel from the pontifico. So he was like a messenger,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: like a papal messenger as well. So that means that
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: he worked, you know, within the sort of hierarchy of
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: the papacy, but he didn't necessarily have any contact with
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: the Pope, right? So the Orlandi children were some of
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: the only youth, the only young people to hold Vatican citizenship.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I think there's only, again, you've only got about 100
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: secular people. There's, what, 13 families, all in all, at
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: this point in time. And the Orlandis are one of them.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: So the Orlandi family had lived in the Vatican City
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: for over a century, serving under seven popes. Leo XIII,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Pius X, Benedict XV, Pius XI, Pius XII, John XIII. 23rd.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: So many Johns. Paul VI. And, well, I say that.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: There's a few they didn't quite fall under. Like, those
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: are just the popes during this time period. Now, John
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Paul I was only in office for, like, a few months.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: I say in office. He was only the pope for
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: a few months and then he died. Because they tend
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: to be old popes, you know. And so... Yeah, it's
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: like one day they'll just have a young hot pope. Like, fuck, no. So, yeah. Yeah,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: and John Paul II basically comes in straight after and
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: he takes the name John Paul II probably because he
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: was like, this just seems to make sense because let's
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: work from here. So, anyway. Emanuela was a Vatican citizen
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: and held a Vatican passport. Oh yeah, another thing I
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: forgot to mention about Vatican passports is Vatican citizens, like
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: it is a secondary citizenship. So you have to have
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: another citizenship. So they would have Italian, for example, or
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: someone else could be like, let's take John Paul II, right?
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: The Pope at the time. So he was Polish. So
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: he would have Polish citizenship and also Vatican citizenship, for example.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: And so like all the other cardinals and the bishops
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: and all those fellas, the nuns, can't forget the nuns,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: all over the shop, right? They come in from all over.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: They have their citizenship, but they'll also get, you know,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: the Vatican citizenship. Emanuela shared a room with her younger sister,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Maria Cristina, and she loved music, right? She used to
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: listen to pop music, and her brother Pietro used to
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: make fun of her. Like, she would sing in a choir,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: she would have, like, recitals. So... she was also a
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: flautist and she played the piano. So she played the
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: flute and the piano and she was just really involved.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Within the Vatican City, you know, tourists would have access
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: to like some spaces. Like I said, there's not like
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: a passport control to go in and out, but like
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: you can visit places like, you know, St. Peter's Basilica.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: But there are some places where you just don't get
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: access to as tourists. you know, as a non-citizen. And
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: as a child, like the Orlandi kids, they would have
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: access to the Vatican gardens. They got to run about
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: in them. They got to like enjoy the city. So
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: like Rome is a busy city, but the Vatican city
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: in itself was more like a village because it was
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: very limited. right, it was quite, it's very small, again,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: population size, you know, if you've only got 100 secular families,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: or sorry, 100 secular people and 13 families, people are
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: going to know each other. So it's kind of like
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: a village in some respects, but it's, you know, it's
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: sort of closed off to a point. Because like, even literally,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: because at midnight, the gates to the Vatican would be closed. Like,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: big metal gates, locked up. Emanuela was in secondary school.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: She had just completed her second year at the Liceo
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Scientifico at the Convito Nazionale Vittorio Emanuela II in Rome.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of syllables. I'm doing my best. So
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: she had completed second year in June 1983. And the
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: school year was over, but Emanuela was still going to
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: music lessons. She was taking flute lessons three times a week.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: So she's there doing that. She's also practising for a
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: concert coming up. So I believe she's singing in the
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: choir as opposed to playing an instrument for this. And
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: she's excited because Natalina, the older sister, she's getting married
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: so she's going to be at the wedding and they're
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: all very excited about that. On the 22nd of June, 1983. Like,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: a few weeks after school has finished. 15-year-old Emanuela was
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: about to head out for her music lesson. And it
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: was scorching. So she asked her older brother Pietro to
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: drive her there. Because she's like, it's hot, man. Can
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: you give me a lift? And he's... He tells her
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: he's busy. Now, looking back, you'll see he wasn't even
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: that busy. He was just feeling lazy that day. So...
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: He didn't take her. And Emanuele ended up taking the bus.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: As usual. It was this decision to not take her
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: there that would haunt Pietro for years later. It was
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: around four o'clock when she finally left home and got
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: on the bus with her leather flip bag. So she
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: has this leather flip bag that's going over her shoulder.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: And she also has a leather satchel. So she usually
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: got the bus. It wasn't unusual for this to be
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: a thing. But it was a hot, sweltering day. And
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: so she wasn't really thrilled to be in an enclosed
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: space with so many sweaty people on one of the
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: hottest days of the year. In a Mediterranean climate! So
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: she gets off the bus and walks the last wee bit,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: so it's like a couple hundred metres, to the Piazza
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: di Sant'Opelmere, which is where the music school is. So
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: the music school is outwith the Vatican City. So it's
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: not very far. There's a few stops between getting on
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: the bus and getting to her location. It's not huge.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: And when her lesson was finished, she called home. Now
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: this is pre-mobile phone, cell phone era. This would have
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: been either a payphone or like a phone that was
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: within the music school that, you know, children could use.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: So her sister Federica was home studying and she's the
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: one who answered the phone. Emanuela told Federica that a
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: man approached her outside the school saying he was a
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: representative of Avon. and offered her a job handing out
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: flyers for this fashion show. So, you know, like, okay. Now,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: here's a thing, and I don't know if, is Avon
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: still a thing? I think Avon might still be a thing.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: So back in the day, for those of you who
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: are unaccustomed to this, Avon was a, I don't want
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: to say it was the original MLM, because I think
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: that might be Tupperware. But yeah, so... um mlms uh
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: so someone would come around you'd always have an avon
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: lady right there'd be a woman who'd come into your
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: house play magazine and would show you the avon stuff
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: and then you'd order avon and then avon would come
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: to your house right yay so i used to get
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: avon we avon ladies used to come to my house
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: we used to get Avon I think I got my
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: first lipstick from Avon I'm aging myself here in this
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: thing so like uh Federica like writes this down so
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: she had like a notebook so there was a a
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: lot of people would have done this actually you would
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: have had like a book or something to like scribble
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: on next to where the house phone was. And so
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: she would write down notes and she was like, okay, Avon, man.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: All right, whatever. But she writes it down anyway and
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: she's like, oh, okay. Because, like, in this call, you know,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Emanuela never said yea or nay whether she was actually
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: interested in, you know, being involved in the Avon scenario. Now,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: she was supposed to meet her sister Maria Cristina and
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: her friends around 7pm that evening. So, again, for anyone
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: under the age of 30 listening, way back in the 1900s,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: you would have to arrange to meet someone in advance, right? Again,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: pre-cell phone, pre-mobile phone. So you would have to, you know,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: arrange to meet them in advance at a time and
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: a location, right? And hope that they show up, right?
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: That That's how it did it. And you would just
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: all meet at the place. That's how this worked. So
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: they had arranged to meet sort of between the Castle
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Sant'Angelo Bridge and the Palazzo Accio Bridge. Now, Maria Christina
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: and her friends, like, they waited for, like, half an hour.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: So they're just over 30 minutes, they're waiting. Because, like,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: it's near the bus stop, which is why they're waiting.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: And they wait. You know, Emanuela doesn't show up, and
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: so she's like, all right, okay, maybe she's already went home.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: So yeah, she had assumed, when her big sister didn't
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: show up, that, like, she'd already gone. But when she
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: gets back, she realises that Emanuela had not come home. Right?
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Around 9.30pm, the family start getting worried. So, like, Pietro
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: and his parents, they went out looking for her, while Federica, like,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: called around the hospitals. So, they're like, what if something happened?
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: She's at a hospital, she's... Like, very reasonable solutions because
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: she's not home and this is really unusual for her.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: I recall Orlando went to the police to report her
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: missing because his 15-year-old daughter, who, you know, has never
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: broken a rule in her life, is suddenly not home.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: The police said it was too early to submit a
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: report and sent them away. Like... They're not even considering
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: looking for her. And so, like, Ercole, like, he rings
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Emanuela's uncle, who had been out of Rome for the day. Like,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: him and the wife had been out somewhere. And basically,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: he's just like, she hasn't come home. The police aren't
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: doing shit. Although he probably wouldn't have said shit, but paraphrasing.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: So Mario gets on his moped. His son Pietro, yes,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: there's two Pietros in this story. Like, Mario's on his moped,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Pietro's on his motorbike, and they just drive around Rome
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: with Emanuela's picture so that they can, like, show it
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: to people. Like, it's an act of pure desperation and
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: the hope that somebody, somewhere, had seen something. The very
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: next morning, Natalina goes to the police to file a report.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: You know, they're very worried about that she has been abducted, right?
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: And the police say to Natalina's face, right, that she
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: really shouldn't worry because her younger sister wasn't pretty enough
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: to be abducted, right? First of all, what? And may
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I add, the fuck, sir, right? So... He's like, yeah,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: probably a runaway, right? And the Polizio, they are not
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: doing shit. And so the family says, fuck this for
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: a game of soldiers. And they have Emanuela's photo published
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: in local papers, right? They publish it along with the
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Orlandi's home phone number, which is insane. Like, none of
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: us would ever do that today. You wouldn't post your
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: private phone number in a newspaper. So, like, Mario, Uncle Mario, he, like,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: knew a few, like, people in these different newspapers, and
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: he was just, like, help us. So, this goes out,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: and this is, this is a recipe for disaster, right? So, originally,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: it's in El Dempo, which is, like, you know, a
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: more smaller newspaper, and then the larger ones catch on,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: And then people were just like, I'm sorry, this is
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: a girl from the Vatican who's gone missing. Like, this
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: is wild. Like, this is unheard of. So straight away, right,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: the family are inundated with phone calls, right? All the
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: fucking weirdos, right? So they had, you know, weirdos calling.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: They had people taunting them. There was a bunch of
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: fake tips. And there was just, you know... Just crazy people.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say crazy people. I've been in a
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: loony bin. I'm allowed to say it. So crazy people.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: So the whole shebang. The whole shebang. Now, one of
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: the benefits of, say, a tip line, you know, is
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: that the police can weed out through the nonsense and
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: the bullshit. And, you know, as opposed to this trying
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: to be filtered by an overwhelmed, grieving family. Right? They're upset.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: And they're not trained in this. They don't know what
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: the hell they're doing. But here we are. Three days
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: after Emanuela goes missing, the Orlandis get a call from
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: this dude who calls himself Perluigi. Right? He says that
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: he had met a girl, Emanuela, that day. But she
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: had a new haircut and that her name was Barbara. Right?
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Because he'd seen the picture. And he's like, I saw
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: the picture of this girl, but her hair is much
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: shorter and her name was Barbara. Barbara told Pierluigi that
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: she was running away from home so that she could
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: sell Avon. Right? Now, alarm bells are ringing at this
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: point because the Avon thing, sus, right? And Emanuela wasn't
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: the kind to just run away. On the 26th of June,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: it's clear that this is getting attention. Because the SISDE,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: which is like the Italian Secret Service, they show up.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: And with the family's permission, they bug the phone so
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: that they can record the calls. Now, I say that
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: as if they hooked in some little spy gear into
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: the phone line. When it's a cassette, it's a tape cassette.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: And the family still have the cassettes, right? You can
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: listen to them. I have listened to them. It is wild.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: It is so rare to have access to such a
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: particular primary source that it's very strange for me. So,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: two days later, which is like one week after her disappearance,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: they get a call from Mario. Mario says that he
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: knows this dude with two girlfriends and they sell clothes
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: and perfume and There was a girl with him. Like
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: one of the girls is either called Barbara or Barbarella.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: And she was selling stuff and she had a regret.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: And that regret was that she wasn't going to be
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: singing in her concert. The following day, or like not
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: the following day, but like it's very close after this.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: The family have the idea to get these posters made up, right?
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: And there's these big posters. It's Emanuela's face. It's, you know,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: she's missing. Contact us. And on the 30th, they have
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: posters all over Rome. Like, it's up in the Vatican.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: It's all over Rome. Like, you cannot miss them. You
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: cannot escape. Meanwhile, the police were investigating. So, like, there
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: was one officer who, like, knew the family. And so
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: he was looking into stuff, right? And he had spoken
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: to a retired officer and a traffic warden who'd been
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: around the area where the music school was that day. So,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: they said they saw a man with a green BMW
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: approach a girl outside the music school. A girl they
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: believed to be Emanuela. Now, they follow up on this
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: green BMW. They don't get plates, right? But they find
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: a green BMW a few days later and it's doing...
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: it's like getting repairs done in a garage and they
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: find it right and they follow the registration but it
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: turns out just some women owns it and they're just
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: like okay guess it can't be this then now all
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: of Rome was aware that a Vatican girl was missing.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: And so during his weekly address, like, so there would
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: be an address by the Pope to, you know, the
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: people of the Vatican, right? Pope John Paul II spoke
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: of Emanuela and that he hoped that she would return safely. Right,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: or would be returned safely. His phrasing has caused a
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: lot of concern over the years because there's this theory
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: that because of how he wanted it, that he knew
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: the who's what's and why's about Emanuela's disappearance. And before
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: we go any further, I would just like to state
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: that then I am personally not a fan of GP2.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: I have many reasons and I will happily rant about
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: them in the future, but we do not have time today.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: So let's consider Occam's razor, shall we? That the simplest
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: answer is often the correct one, right? The Orlandese were
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Vatican citizens and they worked for the pontificate for a century, okay?
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Under seven popes. Like, this is information that the pontificate
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: will have access to. You know? And this is the
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: first time a Vatican citizen has gone missing. And the
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: fact is that this is a child, it's kind of
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: a big deal. So, you have basically the family saying
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: that they believe that she has been kidnapped, that she
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: wouldn't run away. And if this is the information that's
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: being put out there, why? would, you know, why would
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: you counteract that? Like, you're just reinforcing that, as opposed
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: to having intimate knowledge. Like, this phrasing specifically doesn't throw
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: me off in any way. There's a bunch of reasons
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: why it would be worded in that way. Now, a
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: few days after this public address, the family get a
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: call from a man speaking Italian, but with a foreign accent.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Uncle Mario thinks that he's American, and so he's called Americano, like,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: from here on in. He tells Arcole that he was
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: speaking with his daughter that night, and he plays a
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: recording of a girl saying, Right? And basically saying the
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: name of the school, like, over and over. Followed by,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: in Italian, I don't speak Italian, I should be in
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: third year of secondary school next year. And like this
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: is also said on repeat. The family listened to the tape, right?
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: They got the call, they recorded it on the little
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: cassette and they listened to it. And it, to them,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: like they were convinced it was Emanuela's voice. You know,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: that was her school. That's where she was supposed to be.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: And that sounded like Emanuela. The caller also told the
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: family that Belloigi and Mario were agents of his and
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: they were part of, like, whatever the situation was. And
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: the family, like, they're relieved at this because for them,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: this was proof that Emanuela was alive. They get another
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: call saying that they were willing to kill Emanuela, but...
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: She would be safely returned if Italian authorities released Mehmet
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Ali Akca by July 20th. A man whose name was
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: very well known at the time because two years earlier,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Ali Akca had tried to assassinate the Pope. John Paul
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: II was out in St Peter's Square doing his blessing
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: when shots were fired and he crumpled to the ground.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: Out of the four shots that came out of Ali
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: Agca's 9mm Browning semi-automatic pistol, two hit bystanders. One bullet
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: hit John Paul II's left hand and the other lodged
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: into his chest. Apparently, a bomb was supposed to be
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: set off as well, but Ali Agca panicked in the commotion.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: He threw his gun under the Fiat Popemobile. and ran off.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: He was apprehended when he was tackled to the ground
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: by a nun. Okay, sorry, sidebar. I'm sorry, but that
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: is objectively funny that a hitman for the Grey Wolves
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: was taken down by a nun. So anyway, this is
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: international news, right? And People are thinking, did a nationalist
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: far-right group kidnap a Vatican girl to enable the release
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: of a hitman who had tried to assassinate the Pope himself?
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: A couple of days later, the American calls again. telling
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: the family that they called the Italian press agency to
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: collect a package from a rubbish bin at the Piazza
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: de Palmelo. One of the editors of ANSA, right, they
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: race down, like, they just leg it. They get there,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: they get to the bin, and in this package is
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: a copy of Emanuela's music school ID, a school fee receipt, and, like,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: two lines of Emanuela's handwriting. It's like a photocopy of
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: two lines of her handwriting. So Uncle Mario, he makes
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: a public plea to the kidnappers to show proof of life,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: not just photocopies. So Uncle Mario is basically acting as
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: the spokesperson for the family. They're all putting him out there.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: They're like, Uncle Mario, you need to talk to the press.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: We don't want to do it. You're out there. So
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: he's like, I guess. So Mehmet Ali Agca, he's informed
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: of this, right? So the news obviously gets to him.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: And so he's brought into Rome for questioning. And, like,
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: speaking both Italian and English, right? He's condemning this shit, right?
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: He's like, listen, dare I kill a left-wing journalist and
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: try to kill the Pope? Sure. But I'm not about
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: kidnapping a teenage girl. That's creepy as fuck, right? So
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: he's also talking right now, like, around about this time.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: He is, you know, he says that he wasn't doing
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: the hit on behalf of, you know, the Turkish grey wolves, right?
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: The Pope hit was because of the Bulgarians and the KGB. Now,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: the KGB were like, um, the secret service of the
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: USSR right like they're kind of secret they're not really
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: secret though but yeah the KGB are like the spies
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: and you know what that's another story for another day
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: we'll get into that another day actually we do not
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: have time for this right now like there is so
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: much to cover in this and we're so this is
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: a plot twist right perhaps a deception maybe, but three
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: days before, like, Ali Agca's release deadline, the American calls
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: ANSA again, so the press agency, and sends them to
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: a rubbish bin at the Via della Dottaria, right? The
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: journalist goes there, rushes down, and collects a package which
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: included a cassette tape. Side one had a typical message
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: from the kidnappers, do this, do that, whatever. Side two
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Said to was disturbing. It sounded like a woman or
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: girl either having sex or being assaulted, right? It was
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: kind of weird. It's weird. I've listened to it. It's not.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: So it actually gets assessed later. So this is clearly
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: done for shock value. So this gets listened to by
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: like an expert and they're like, we think that is
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: actually a scene from a porn. Like, they think that
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: other side, they've just recorded, like, part of a porn
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: just to kind of, like, level up the creepiness and
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: to make the Irlandese think that this is happening to
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: their daughter, right? Now, on the 20th of July, like,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: a church in Rome, they get a call from the
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: Americans and warned them that Emanuela would be killed if
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: Ali Agca was not freed. Right, this is the day of, right?
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: The deadline they gave for the release. So this priest
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: answers the phone and they're like, this is a message
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: for the Orlandi family and this priest is like what
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: like it takes him a bit to realise what's going
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: on like he doesn't he doesn't get it he's like
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: this is a weird thing he's like who's Orlandi who's
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: this what's going on so yeah so He's like, okay,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: and he has to pass this message on, right? And obviously,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: obviously the Vatican and Italy as a whole were not
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: about to free a man who tried to kill the
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: leader of the Catholic Church. So the deadline passes and
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: police scour the city because they say they're just going
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: to dump her body. Like they're just going to dump
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: it back. You'll have to find it. So they're like
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: checking cars going in and out, they're, like, searching, but
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: to no avail. Like, they even had divers out in, like,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: the rivers. Like, they had them dredging. They were looking.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: The Secret Service at this point have the family divert
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: their phone to a lawyer. Genalio Egedeo, right? And this
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: isn't like a conflict specialist. This isn't a guy who
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: deals with acts of terrorism. This is a lawyer who
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: specifically deals with bankruptcy. So the Orlandi family are panicking
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: because they cannot afford to pay a diverted line to
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: a lawyer. And, you know, they're told to worry about it.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: It's all taken care of. And the family never did pay.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: They didn't pay for the line. They didn't pay for
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: the lawyer. Like, none of that. Meanwhile, the police are
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: suspicious because kidnappers typically have demands and it's usually happening
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: in the first call. Like, there were even journalists who
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: thought this is a bit sus because the first call
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: that demanded anything happened after the Pope had made his, like,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: wee speech in the balcony. Right? Okay, you know what?
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: Tinfoil hat time. Tinfoil hat. Tinfoil fascinator. Let's be jaunty, okay? Okay, listen,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: they're made of aluminium now, so it's not even the
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: same thing. You're not even stopping anything because it's not
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: actually made of tin, but that's neither here nor there. Tin.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Tin fascinator. Boop, boop. There we go. So, theory time.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: What if the persons Phoning, right? The Americano. What? Like,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: what if he didn't have Emanuela at all? What if
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: he just found her stuff or was given her stuff
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: by someone, right? And decided to shoot their shot to
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: try and get Ali Agha freed? Like, theory number two.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: What if they do have her? But the whole thing
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: about Mehmet Ali Agca, like, getting him free, is just
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: a red herring. Like, what if it's a diversion? What
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: if they're doing that simply to cast eyes elsewhere so
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: that they can either move her somewhere or something else? So,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: on Christmas Eve 1983, Pope John Paul II would visit
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: the Irlandese, right? They get a phone call going, the
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: Pope is coming, right? And this is unusual. Like they
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: worked in the Vatican, they lived in the Vatican. They
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: did not meet the Pope. This was not a common thing.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: He shows up, you know, he prayed with them and
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: he told them that he thought Emanuela's disappearance was linked
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: to international terrorism. And he promised the family that the
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: Vatican would do everything they could, everything they could to
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: find her. Spoiler alert, did they fuck, right? After this meeting,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: after he shows up, like there are photos taken, he
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: poses with photos, like that kind of thing happens. And then, nothing.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: Radio silence. Sweet fuck all, right? There's nothing. For 10 years.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: In 1993, their landies get a call from the magistrate's
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: office because they have this photo of a novice about
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: to take vows at this convent in Luxembourg. So it's
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: kind of a grainy photo and they're like, could this
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: maybe be Emanuela? And so, right, Maria, she's convinced that,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: you know, she's going to be brainwashed, there's going to
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: be something going on, like, if she's out there and
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: she's safe, why wouldn't she come home, you know? So,
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: Petrillo and his parents, they fly out to Luxembourg. They
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: meet with a novice, but she wasn't Emanuela. Like, also,
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: why did this magistrate have a photo of nuns? Like,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: why was this brought to their attention? It's just interesting
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: to me, like, why were they, why were they investigating, like, cloisters?
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: I don't, anyway, I'm sure we'll probably cover that another day. So,
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: nothing again. For years. And then in 2004, Ercole Orlandi
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: passes away without ever knowing what happened to his daughter.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: Before he died, he said, I was betrayed by those
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: I served. He had worked for the Vatican up until
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: he retired. He had served them, his family had served them,
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: and they promised to do everything to find his daughter.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: And they never did. Whether it was something deeper, whether
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: he had a whisper or a hint of something, we
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: don't know. But to take it at face value, they
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: didn't keep their side. They made a promise and they
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: broke it. He had faith the Vatican would bring his
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: daughter home. It broke that faith. The following year, John
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: Paul II also kicked the bucket. A few weeks later,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: after his death, right, a few weeks later after he
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: croaks it, another wild plot twist. Okay, there's this TV show,
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: Que La Vista, right? It received a call on the
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: answering machine for the show. And I'm going to be
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: paraphrasing here a wee bit. The mysterious caller says that basically,
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: regarding Manuela Orlandi, to find out what happened, check out
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: who was buried in the crypt of Santa Polina Basilica
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: and the favour that Renatino did for Cardinal Polente back then.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: So this, this is a big deal. So one of
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: the journalists for the show, like she, she just gets
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: on it, right? She looks out the Santa Polinera Basilica
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: and she's like, oh, it's right in the middle of Rome. Wow,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: it's in front of the Piazza Navona. And you know
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: what's right next to it? Right next to this church?
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: The Scuola di Musica Tomas Lodovico da Vittoria. Emanuela's music
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: school and the last place she was ever seen. So
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: this journalist, Raffaella Noticale, right? She goes to the basilica
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: and she starts searching out this crypt. So she goes in,
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: she heads to the right and there is this marble,
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: like just marble crypt, marble thing. And right on the
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: front of this tomb is the name Enrico de Pérez,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: nickname Renatino. The King of Rome. So, he was part
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: of the Banda del Magliana, right? Which had two factions,
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: but he was one of the bosses. He was a
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: crime boss who was entailed in a Vatican-owned church. Like,
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: so far, we do not know who Cardinal Polenti is.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: We don't know what favour... Renatino did, but he must
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: have done something because he was buried in a Vatican-owned church. Now,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: I feel like I shouldn't have to explain this to you,
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: but you cannot get, like, laid to rest in a
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Vatican-owned church without the Vatican's explicit permission. Naturally, everyone's like,
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: how the hell are these connected? And so, Raffaella is digging, right?
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: And she finds that De Peris was arrested. Like, they
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: managed to catch him one time because they had followed
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: his girlfriend in, like, 84. Yeah. Sabrina Minardi so Raffaella
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: finds like her address she finds the apartment and like
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: she goes in when the doorman's on his break because
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: yep she goes up And she looks at the names
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: on all the doors. So like every door has like
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: a wee name plaque on it under like a wee doorbell.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: And she goes up and she checks all of them.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: So she goes up. The name Sabrina Minardi is not
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: on any of them. So she comes back down. And
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: she sees that there are three doors that don't have names.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: So she knocks on them. On one of them she
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: knocks and a woman answers. She introduces herself. explains that
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: she's a reporter, that she has questions and she's invited in. So, like, Sabrina, like,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: pats her down, like, she checks her for a while and, like,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: they start talking. Now, they end up talking for a
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: full year, basically, like, slowly, like, dripping out this information. So, like, Sabrina,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: she had this house just outside Rome, it was, like,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: her parents' house that she'd got and she was in
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: the bed is his car by the EUR lake, right?
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: So she was there when a car pulls up with
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: a young girl inside, right? Like, it's a really hot day.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: She's like chilling out there by the lake. And next
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: thing you know, this teenager who is clearly out of
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: it is there. So he says, you know, that she
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: has to hide this girl for a while. And Sabrina
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: at the time is a bit of a cokehead, you know,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: and she's like, yeah, and just agrees to do it, right? So, like,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: when she started dating Depedis, right, when they started dating,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: she was like, oh, handsome man, spends money, yay. And
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: then she sees him in the newspaper for, like, organised
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: crime stuff and she's like, oh. And they still chose
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: to associate with him. I mean, I don't know what
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: the option would have been otherwise, but yeah. It's like,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: it's not even like late. You know, it's kind of
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: early evening and she wasn't expecting to, you know, be
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: doing anything much that night. But yeah, the girl is
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: loaded into their car and off they drive, just outside
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: of Rome, to her, you know, her parents' old house.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: And then a woman shows up. So this woman, Adelaide,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: she called herself, very Italian name there. So she shows
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: up and she's like there to look after the teenager.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: And by look after, it's give her a cocktail of drugs. Yep, no,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: that's really kind of it. So they lock her in
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: a bedroom. So this girl, she's locked in a bedroom
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: and she's whining, right? She's... kind of moaning and whining
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: and she's upset. She's been given these. Mixtures are being
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: made up in the kitchen and they're given to this girl.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: And then Adelaide's there the whole time and doing all this.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: So Sabrina's just like, what is going on? Why is
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: she whining? She doesn't ask too many questions. Again, because,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: you know, cokehead. But this is happening. And she's not really... like,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: involved in it and she sees, you know, she's getting
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: some food, she's getting a bit of that, she's not, like,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: not too focused on what's happening. It's only when Sabrina
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: travelled into Rome and saw all of the posters of
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: the girl plastered on every wall that it could be,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: that was when she realised that that the girl locked
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: in one of her bedrooms was Emanuela Orlande. So, her
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: hair had been cut. Like she says, like, because Emanuela's
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: hair was kind of like down past her shoulders and
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: her hair had been chopped up. But like, she was like,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: it's the same girl. She just had shorter hair. Now,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: about 10 days after this, Emanuela was moved to to
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: a house in, what was it? Monterrey, right? And it
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: had like a massive basement. Like Sabrina has all these details.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: She's like, it was, it was this house. It had
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: a massive basement. That's why they kept her there. After this,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: Latinito and Sabrina were in Rome and like they're just
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: in Rome one day and he gives her the keys
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: to a green BMW with Emanuela in the car. And
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: he tells her that she had to drive the car
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: to the only petrol station in the Vatican. Right, so
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: she did bring the car there with Emanuela, that a
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: man with a car with Vatican plates would then take her.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: And she's like, She just does it. Of course she does,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: because her, you know, boyfriend's a fucking crime boss. So
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: she drives there, and as she's driving, like, she's trying
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: to talk to Emanuela. But Emanuela is absolutely, like, she
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: is out of her face, right? She's absolutely on, like,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: all of the drugs, right? So she's trying to make conversation,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: she's trying to do something, and... So she says, she says,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: now one of the police that interviewed her after this
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: isn't so convinced by this. So Sabrina says that she considered, like,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: could she create a situation where this girl could run,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: where she could escape? You know, be the hero of
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: the hour. But she realised that this girl was so
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: out of it There was nothing she could do. There
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: was absolutely nothing. So she, there she goes. She goes
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: to the petrol station. She parks up. And she meets,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: she meets the guy, right? Full old-timey priest regalia. He's
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: got the cassock. He's got the big wide brim hat, right?
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: He's good at all, right? He takes the girl, puts
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: her in his car, and drives away, and that is
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: the last, and that is the last she ever saw
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: of the girl. So she's just like going back to himself.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: She goes back to Retinito and she's like, what have
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: you got me into? Like, what is this? This is,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: what is going on? Obviously, extra paranoid, cokehead, right? Crime boss, Vatican,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: it's all about much. And he says to her, like,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: it's a game of power. Now, she doesn't mention this
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: at all. She doesn't even mention it after Retinito is, like, killed. Like,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: she doesn't ever mention it up until the, up until,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: you know, the journalist shows up. Now, so, initially, nobody
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: believes her, right? Initially, well, see, nobody believes her. Initially, right, like,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: the police officer is kind of, like, really dubious about this.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: The case is reopened. They're like, this is credible. Case
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: is reopened. But, like, sus. So they go look at
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: the house. It's on Pignatelia Street, right? The house that was, like,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: the second location where she had been brought, right? It
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: was now owned by a woman called Daniela. We do
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: not know Daniela's second name. I don't even know if
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: Daniela is actually her real name of the person who
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: owns this. She's never been publicly outed. Because Daniela had
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: connections to the Banda de la Maliana, right? She owned
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: this house. And it is searched, right? They go in
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: and they realise that a lot of the details that
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: Sabrina had given them, they're like, it's matching up. It's
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: all aligning. This is where it was. The other thing
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: is where she said it was. And they go down
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: to the basement. And they realise that in this basement,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: there's like a false wall. And in this false wall, like,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: they go in. And what do they find? Right? It
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: looks like a medieval dungeon, right? There's shackles on the walls. Like,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: it is... creepy. If you ever look at the pictures,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: it is terrifying. Like, if they kept this girl in
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: this creepy fucking dungeon, like, like, even if it wasn't Emanuela,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: the fact that they kept a girl in this creepy
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: fucking dungeon is terrifying, right? So, for them as well, like,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: so they've got all this information and they're like, shit,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: she was right, but it's still half the story. We
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: still don't know about Cardinal Polenti, right? Who is he?
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: What did he do? How is he involved in this?
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: Is this the favour? Is this what Redneetle did? Like,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: what is it? Right? They have a mob boss. Buried
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: in a Vatican-owned church. But for why? For why? Right?
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: He was, like, he's one of the bosses. Like, it's split,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: so he's on one side. Right? And it split in 1983.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: So this year, the year this happened, like the crime family,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: for example, it split, this gang split. And according to
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: this little piggy who squealed, squealed, squealed all the way home,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: a little piggy who happened to be one of the
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: other leaders, like in the schism of the Banda del Amaniano.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: According to him, One Mr. Maurizio Abatino, he told a journalist,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: what happened, Emanuela? And this is going to sound like
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: a weird improv set, so I'm going to apologise in advance,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: but this is basically, okay, it's a very deep, it's
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: kind of damn brownie, it's a lot going on. It
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: involves the Sicilian Mafia, a ransom, Pope John Paul II,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: the Vatican Bank, God's Banker, and death. Wait, no, wrong podcast. So,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: Scratch that. Allegedly, I mean, also, yes, death. So allegedly,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: when the Pope was shot, he got even closer to
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: God because he became hyperfixated on the three secrets of Fatima, right?
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: Because he was shot same time, same day, right? Cliff
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: Notes version, three young shepherds in Portugal are visited by
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: the Virgin Mary in 1917. And they are shown prophecies
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: and shit. Prophecies which some people have interpreted, heavily interpreted,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: as if Russia doesn't convert from being Orthodox back to
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: Roman Catholicism, the Pope will die. So converting an entire
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: Eurasian nation isn't exactly easy or cheap. Now, all of this, again,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: it's a bit mad now, isn't it? A bit mad.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: So the Pope sends, allegedly, 200 million lira to the Solidarnosc,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: which is the Polish anti-communist group. And this is all secret,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: hush hush, under the table, right? Where did the money
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: come from? I don't know, maybe motherfucking Teresa. Right, that's
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: another story for another day. That is, I believe, the
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: Catholic Church is involved in money laundering, but let's not
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: get into that today, we do not have time. So...
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: The Vatican Bank. The money is moved from the Vatican
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: Bank by God's banker, Robert Calvi, the CEO of Banas Imbrosiano,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: the largest private bank in Italy, one that the Vatican
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: had shares in. So Calvi was also laundering money for
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: the Sicilian mafia. Unfortunately for everyone involved, the Bank of
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: Italy clocked that billions of lira were being illegally exported
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: out of Italy. So, lira, for those of you, again,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: who are under the age of 30, was the currency
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: in Italy for many, many years. So, other countries had money. So,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: you had, they had French francs. You had Deutschmarks in Germany.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: You had Italian lira. You know, Europe had this. Ireland
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: had the punt. Then the euro came in and we
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: all have the euro and that's how that came about. So,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: back in the day, it was lira. So, he was
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: arrested in 1981, but he got out in bail and
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: kept his job at the bank. What in the white
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: male privilege is the fuck happening? So, in 1982, he
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: writes to the Pope warning him that the bank is
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: going down. He has lost a life. ton of money
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: belonging to the Sicilian Mafia and he had been siphoning
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: money like via the Vatican Bank and it was all
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: starting to catch up with him and people were not happy.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: On the 18th of June 1982 Roberto Galve was found
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: hanging from Blackfire's Bridge in London. His pocket stuffed with
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: heavy bricks and many many different currencies and sticking out. Like, initially,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: Coppel said he completed suicide, but two decades later, they
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: realised that he was, in fact, very obviously and deliberately murdered.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: So this theory led people to think that Emanuela was
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: being ransomed by the Sicilian mafia, right, to get the
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: Vatican to give them their money back. working on the
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: assumption that, you know, the Vatican would care about its
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: citizens and would do everything to return, you know, her back.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: But if this is true, if they had sent all
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: this money elsewhere, then they didn't have the money to
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: give back. And anyway, chaos ensues and this whole thing
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: was to the Vatican and all this other stuff was
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: a deflection to distract the police and press. So, Pope
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: John Paul, he dies. He's replaced with Benedict, who was, like,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: not super. He was pretty harsh, Pope-wise. And, like, that's
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: not even including the part that he was a Nazi. Like, he...
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: Everyone joined Hitler Youth, so I'm not really that concerned.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: If you get deprogrammed, I'm like, cool, glad you're not pro-Nazi. But, again,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: wasn't super. Then, in 2013, Pope Francis shows up. Pope
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: Francis is... Like, he was one of the better popes. So,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: he's 2013, and he tells Pietro that Emanuela is in heaven. Right.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: This is his statement to them. Now, does he know? Right.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: Is he, again, not here to justify or stand up
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: for any pope ever, but Francis saying this is seen
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: by a lot of people as being, like, admission of guilt, but... Like,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: it's been 30 years and there's been no sign of her.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: Could it just be an educated guess? Right, so... This happens,
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: and then Vata leaks happen. Yes, there was a Vata leaks.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: There are these documents, these journalists manage to get these documents,
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: and one of them is on Emanuela, right? It's... it's there.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: And so... there's this sort of research into, you know,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: the Vatican and what they were doing. And they go
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: through this. And throughout the whole process, it shows that
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: the Vatican were uncooperative with police. They refused to discuss
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: the matter. They refused to really do anything. And, like,
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: they were just not... not really helping in any way.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: And so... This really triggers something in Pietro and he
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: gets a lawyer, Laura Scrooge. So Laura, it's very public,
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: she becomes his lawyer and Laura gets a letter in 2018, anonymously,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: but of course it was, saying that if you want
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: to find Emanuela, search for where the angel is watching.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: So they end up in the Teutonic Cemetery, right? Because
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: it's Rome, it's the Vatican. Where the angel is watching...
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: in the city with all the angels. No, no, no.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: So they get there, the Teutonic Cemetery. And a few
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: hundred meters from the Irlandi's apartment, right, there is an
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: angel looking down upon a grave. And there are supposed
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: to be these two princesses, like, at least pre-19th century, like,
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: buried there. So they contact the state secretary to open
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: the tomb. And they don't expect to hear anything from anybody, right?
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: Because they've done nothing so far. The Holy See responded
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: two months later and they're like, yep, go ahead. They're like,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: exhume the grave. Go on, right? Absolutely. So, not only
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: do they agree to exhume that grave, but also the
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: one opposite. And so they do. They open them up
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: and they're emptied. So not only is there, there's nothing
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: to do with Emanuela there, but the princesses who are
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: supposed to be buried there, their bones are missing, right?
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: And so they inspect it and there's like a concrete
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: tomb in there. And they're like, wait a minute, what? tomb,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: like it is definitely, you know, 19th century and it's,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: or 20th century, it's definitely 20th century, like this is
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: not 19th, this was not made in the 1800s, like
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: what is going on, right? So More stories come out
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: after this, right? Over the few years, one of Emanuela's
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: school friends comes forward and says that Emanuela told her
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: that she was in the Vatican Gardens one day and
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: someone close to John Paul II had molested her in
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: the Vatican Gardens. Like, is that why she was taken? Like,
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: why kidnap a child, right? When you could, like, steal
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: a cardinal or a nun, like, and hold them to ransom. Like, why?
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: And a teenager, of all things. Like, wouldn't it make
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: more sense to steal someone younger and really play on
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: the heartstrings? Like, I mean, maybe not a nun, because
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: a nun might tackle you, actually. But yeah, the rest
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: of them, maybe, you know. And there was also a
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: theory that Uncle Mario, there's all these theories. So Uncle
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: Mario was a suspect for a while because he kept
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: asking investigators, like, what's happening now? What's going on? And
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: they were like, maybe he did it and like they
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: were like what if he was the one who was
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: at you know whatever and the family are all like
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: no you weren't telling us anything so we told him
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: to ask you stuff like that's that's that um the
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: case like got reopened like it's been a cold case
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: for years but they officially reopened it in 2023 Now,
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: will we ever hear any more of that? Will there
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: be any more information? Like, there was an excavation happening
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: and a skull was found and they thought, well, maybe
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: this could be Emanuela's, but it wasn't the right size
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: or something. But, like, this keeps happening and there is
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: an investigation. Again, the cold case has reopened and the
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: only hope is that the family will receive... Any information.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: Before they pass. Like. That they will know what happened
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: to their sister. But. We don't know. Nobody knows. And.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: There are so many weird. Twists and turns to this. Like.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: There is a theory that she was. In a. Like
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: boarding house. I say boarding house. Like. Yeah. Kind of
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: like a boarding house. And. London and that she had
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: been there for years and then died at age 30,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: there was like all of these weird, supposed, you know,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: she was here for years or there for years. And
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: it's like, for why? Like, for what? With everything that
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: has happened and all of this stuff the Catholic Church
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: has done, like, something happening to one girl wouldn't be
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: enough to make the House of Cloud fall. So why?
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: And what, like, what has happened here? It just, it
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: feels like one of those things where, and, like, it
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: could be a deep conspiracy. Because, like, I'm the first
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: person to be like, conspiracies are ridiculous. And I'm always
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: complaining about them. And after Epstein Island, you know, like,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: I'm willing to hear the conspiracies. Now, I'm willing to
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: platform them, even for a consideration, like, Well, yes, I
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: am willing to hear your theories on the alligators and
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: the sewers. Although I think that's actually related to like
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: the big wild pet trend of the 1970s, where people
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: were having like alligators and big cats and weird stuff.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: And I think that falls from there, personally. Because a
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: lot of conspiracies can be explained away, you know, when
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: you know basic things. But this to me is just,
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: it's so weird. It's so weird because of all the
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: things in play. Was it this hoax call? Why did
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: it do this? It's just a lot happening. But that
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: is the story of Emanuela Orlandi. If you have a theory,
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: let me know. I'm very excited. Put it in the
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: comments or we can chat about it. We can really
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: hash this out. It is weird how much ecclesiastical knowledge
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: I forgot what was in my brain. And it's so,
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: it's so deep in there. It's like, wow. Like more
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: than a haptic condition in our father, you know what
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: I mean? But it's still there. But yeah, let's chat
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: about it because it's weird. And at the end of
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: the day, right, I think that when something happens to someone,
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: especially women, especially young women, like when something happens to them,
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: It is so easy to sweep it under the rug.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: And I think if we stop talking about it, then
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: we let them be forgotten. And I think that's really
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: incredibly unfair, especially when it comes to anyone who survived
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: in history. I think it's so easy to forget women
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: and girls because a lot of how we understand history
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: is designed to do that. But without further ado, oh,
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: come see my show in Dublin if you're in Dublin,
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: by the way. Come see my show. Belfast is very
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: close to being sold out. Dublin, come see me. There's
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: going to be stickers. If you want stickers, come to Dublin.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: So yes, let's do that. So with that, it is
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: recommendation time. So for watching, Midnight Mass. Watch Midnight Mass.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: It is, and not just because there is a priest
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: and a Cossack and a big wild brim hat. Maybe
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: that is why I was thinking about it. But yes,
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: very good. I am going to watch this evening. I
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: am going to watch Haunting of Hill House because I
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: haven't watched it yet. And I got... I was watching
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: documentaries last night and I got scared going to bed
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: and I was like, oh no. So, because I'm an
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: absolute wimp, right? That's absolutely shocking. So... For listening, Olivia
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: Rodrigo has a new song out with Chapel Rowan and
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: the music video is so fun. I feel like I'm
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: too young, or sorry, I feel they're too young for
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: me to listen to them and I'm too old to
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: listen to them, but it's fun and it's great. And
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: you know what? I don't think Olivia Rodrigo would be
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: that ageist. So yeah, let's listen to that. And for reading,
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: I've been reading, which I think is a young adult book.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: It's a young adult novel and it's called The Agathas.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: And listen, I'm a fan. I have everything detective-based and slithy,
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: so it's a little bit fun. I don't have anything
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: horror-based or spooky to share with you this time. What
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: I am going to say, though, is if you like
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: vintage clothing, I'm obsessed with this vintage clothing brand called
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: Vintage Vandalism. She makes amazing stuff. I'm absolutely obsessed. And
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: I have been measuring myself to try and see if
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: I can get the dress... Obviously, I've been injured for
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: a few weeks, so I'm not doing great with the
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: exercise and it's really annoying, but it's okay. But my
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: plan is to get some of her stuff because it's
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: absolutely amazing. If you love sort of the vintage vibes
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: and you're willing to invest in pieces, you should definitely
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: check out her stuff. And with that, with my voice going,
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: I am going to bid you good day. Adios, au revoir,
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: au revoir, my friends. Bye-bye.