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Gayish: 498 Lesbian Bars · Gayish Podcast

0:00
When you know that you are queer, but your favorite drink is beer, that's gay-ish.
0:04
You can bottom without stopping, but you can't stop going shopping, that's gay-ish.
0:09
Oh, gay-ish, you're probably gay-ish, but life's just too short for narrow stereotypes.
0:15
Oh, it's gay-ish, we're all so gay-ish.
0:18
It's Gay-ish with Mike and Kyle.
0:21
Hello, everyone in the podcast universe.
0:23
This is Gay-ish.
0:24
The podcast that's almost done with its taxes.
0:29
Almost.
0:30
Getting so close.
0:31
In July.
0:32
Name.
0:33
Nailed it.
0:34
Nailed it.
0:35
I'm Michael A. Johnson.
0:37
I'm Kyle E. Goetz.
0:39
We're here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality, and today.
0:42
Today.
0:43
Uncle Sam, don't hurt us.
0:45
Don't come for us.
0:47
Today we are going to talk about lesbian bars.
0:49
We're going to talk about lesbian bars.
0:51
Happy pride, Kyle.
0:53
Happy pride, happy lesbian.
0:54
Thanks for the pride beverage.
0:56
Yeah, no problem.
0:57
You're very sweet.
0:58
I have not done anything to recognize the occasion, so giving you alcohol is the least
1:03
I could do.
1:04
I mean, the weight of my heart is through my liver.
1:07
Mm-hmm.
1:08
But first.
1:09
But first.
1:10
Are you doing anything for pride?
1:12
Pride already happened, which is always interesting for them.
1:16
Sure.
1:17
And the next holiday is July the 4th, so happy birthday, America.
1:21
Let's celebrate her.
1:22
Oh my God, 250 years old, and fuck that bitch.
1:26
Yeah.
1:27
I don't have any plans for pride this year.
1:30
I have a date scheduled for pride because neither of us were doing anything.
1:34
Okay.
1:35
Is that a yellow flag?
1:37
On whose part?
1:38
I don't know.
1:39
Both of ours?
1:40
Do we both get a yellow flag on the plane?
1:41
I just think like, okay, so like a first date on any major holiday, especially Valentine's
1:45
Day, is like a don't do that.
1:47
And then I just wonder if like for gay people, if that also includes pride the weekend that
1:51
it's in your city.
1:52
Does this change if it's a second date?
1:54
No.
1:55
Okay.
1:56
Yeah.
1:57
Yes, it does.
1:58
Yeah.
1:59
A second date is better.
2:00
That's fine.
2:01
We agreed that we were not doing anything and could hang out Sunday and we could cancel
2:03
at a moment's notice if something comes up.
2:05
You're adults.
2:06
You can do it or not.
2:07
Yeah.
2:08
I don't know.
2:09
What are you doing for pride?
2:10
Nothing.
2:11
Not a goddamn thing, Kyle.
2:12
I am tired.
2:13
Okay.
2:14
Are you going to...
2:15
I think pride can mean doing different things.
2:18
Maybe it's investing time in yourself and like resting your body.
2:21
Like maybe that's what your body needs to feel good.
2:24
I'll be proud of being horizontal.
2:26
I'm proud of you no matter what position you're in.
2:29
Thanks, Kyle.
2:32
Okay.
2:33
Now the news.
2:34
Shut your mouth hole.
2:36
It's time for your ear holes.
2:38
News.
2:39
News.
2:40
News.
2:41
Okay.
2:42
First, we have an update, Kyle.
2:43
Okay.
2:44
This is a story that we started talking about here a few months ago.
2:47
And following a nine to two vote, the Minneapolis City Council voted this Thursday to repeal
2:53
the city's longstanding ban on adult bathhouses.
2:56
This is good.
2:57
So now they can have bathhouses again, right?
2:59
They can have bathhouses again.
3:00
Oh, I'm sure there are some people...
3:02
I mean, I wonder how quickly they can get them up.
3:04
And I think first to the punch, maybe the winner of the long-term cake.
3:09
Yeah.
3:10
The last bathhouse in operation in Minneapolis closed in 1988 during the height of the AIDS
3:15
crisis.
3:16
And the members of the council emphasized that the repeal of the ban does not mean that
3:20
such facilities can open right away.
3:22
Oh.
3:23
Rather, now that the repeal is in place and the mayor is expected to sign it, but the
3:28
council then has to set up regulations for how bathhouses can function.
3:32
So it's going to be probably a couple of years at least before they start.
3:37
But this was the first step of just getting rid of the ban completely.
3:41
So with a little bit of regulatory work to do, but the big, hard, difficult ban part
3:47
is the part that's been fixed.
3:49
Isn't the setting up this...
3:51
There have to be some kind of governing rules around setting up a private club.
3:55
And can't they just follow those rules?
3:57
Do there have to be specific rules laid out before they can open up?
4:01
It's now repealed.
4:02
Now they can just open based on the current rules that govern a private club.
4:07
Well...
4:08
This is me not knowing anything and taking a swing at how this might work.
4:12
So the...
4:13
Let's see.
4:14
Chavez.
4:15
Who is Chavez?
4:16
He is the...
4:17
Jason Chavez, who's the only out queer member of the council, co-authored the two ordinances
4:23
required to repeal the ban and said, quote,
4:26
We still need to work on zoning, the safety and regulations,
4:30
so bathhouses won't be able to open tomorrow or next week.
4:33
That's the end of the quote.
4:34
He said that they needed to figure out requirements for condom availability,
4:38
monitoring staff training, waste disposal, and showers.
4:43
Waste disposal.
4:44
It's my fucking mouth.
4:46
Don't you know how bathhouses work?
4:48
No.
4:49
I guess they don't.
4:50
They haven't had them in 40 years, but...
4:52
Yeah, anyway, good work.
4:54
Good work.
4:55
Sorry, I'm getting into the legal technicalities, but yeah, that's great.
4:58
That's awesome.
4:59
That's exciting.
5:00
Have more access to strangers' dicks any day now.
5:02
Oh, can't...
5:03
I bet they can't wait.
5:04
Okay, news the first, Kyle.
5:06
Yeah.
5:07
Have you heard about this Pete Buttigieg thing?
5:09
No, what'd he do?
5:10
Oh, my God.
5:11
Well, that's what he didn't do.
5:12
Pete Buttigieg said Friday that an anonymous Child Protective Services
5:16
allegation brought police and CPS to his family's home this week,
5:21
forced his four-year-old twins into forensic interviews,
5:25
and left him briefly separated from them before authorities concluded
5:28
the report was false.
5:30
That's...
5:31
God, that's got to be someone on the right that called in a tip
5:34
or something, right?
5:35
How is this not just cruel, politically motivated hoax?
5:38
Yeah.
5:39
Right?
5:40
Yeah.
5:41
And how would you...
5:42
You'd have to know not to, like, take reports on celebrities
5:47
and politicians like this as seriously.
5:49
You got to do additional due diligence before you investigate,
5:52
because you can't investigate every single person that calls,
5:54
like, 911 on Britney Spears.
5:57
Yeah.
5:58
Well, and I don't know, like,
6:01
I haven't had Child Protective Services called on me even once.
6:06
So how famous do you got to be, you know?
6:09
The Advocate is reporting on this.
6:11
Michigan State Police said it received an anonymous report
6:13
and referred the matter to Child Protective Services.
6:16
And then, quote,
6:17
the Michigan State Police and Child Protective Services responded
6:19
and determined the report was false.
6:21
False reports are dangerous and divert law enforcement officers
6:24
and Child Protective Services workers from responding
6:26
to legitimate emergencies and protecting vulnerable children
6:29
and families.
6:30
Then why did you fucking go?
6:31
Yeah, that seems like such an obvious lie.
6:34
Or, or, or...
6:37
Check it out.
6:38
That's fine.
6:39
But, like,
6:40
maybe it shouldn't take, like,
6:42
hours and require you to be, like,
6:44
separated from your children.
6:45
I don't know what the protocol is,
6:46
but the whole thing seems really fucking stupid.
6:48
Yeah, it does.
6:50
But then I think, like,
6:51
well, what would you do if it, like,
6:53
let's say that he was a straight guy
6:55
and, like, totally banging those kids or something.
6:57
Like, you know,
6:58
what would the protocol then be?
7:00
Would it look the same?
7:02
Should it be the same?
7:03
I don't...
7:04
Anyway, Kyle, the whole thing is upsetting.
7:06
No, there's, like, particular...
7:08
You can't remove the, like,
7:10
minority complications that this adds
7:12
of people assuming that gay couples can't raise children.
7:15
Like, that's a...
7:16
That's probably a factor that plays into
7:19
someone making this kind of false report.
7:22
So that wouldn't happen to straight people.
7:25
You don't want to get rid of anonymous tips, though.
7:27
Right.
7:28
But then also, like,
7:29
what's the burden of proof?
7:31
Yeah, I think you could,
7:32
like you were saying,
7:33
like, maybe you don't have to make it as intense.
7:34
You can go in and show up
7:35
and walk around the house with the parents
7:37
and get a feel for if you need to come back
7:39
and investigate again
7:40
or if you're good upon, you know,
7:42
a 15-minute walkthrough.
7:44
Yeah, yeah.
7:45
Well, yeah.
7:46
I'm so sorry, Buttigieg's.
7:49
Buttigieg?
7:50
Buttigieg.
7:51
That sounds like the new, like, Ford Buttigieg.
7:56
Yeah, maybe Volkswagen.
7:59
Maybe Volkswagen.
8:00
Volkswagen, Buttigieg.
8:01
Yeah, yeah.
8:02
News the second, Kyle.
8:03
Yeah.
8:04
FIFA was forced to confirm last week
8:06
that rainbow flags would be permitted
8:08
inside the stadium
8:09
for the Egypt versus Iran World Cup match
8:12
in Seattle, Washington, for pride.
8:15
And this was despite objections from both countries
8:18
to pride-themed events around the match.
8:20
Yeah, fuck.
8:21
Shut the fuck up.
8:22
You got to respect our culture.
8:23
That's what we had to do previously.
8:25
So we talked about this a bunch on the World Cup episode,
8:28
but fuck off.
8:29
Yep.
8:30
In a statement,
8:31
FIFA said,
8:32
quote,
8:33
general statements of human rights,
8:34
including rainbow flags and other flags
8:35
representing sexual orientation and gender identity
8:37
are permitted under the FIFA World Cup 2026
8:40
stadium code of conduct
8:42
and may be displayed inside stadiums.
8:45
Hannah Tedeschi,
8:46
a spokesperson for Seattle's
8:48
World Cup organizing committee,
8:51
said FIFA treats the rainbow flag
8:53
as a statement of human rights,
8:54
so fans are allowed to fly it in the stadium.
8:57
Now, there was a bunch of backlash
8:59
as early as 2025 in December
9:01
that there was a random draw
9:04
that paired Egypt and Iran
9:06
and put them in this slot
9:08
that happened to be in Seattle
9:10
on Seattle's Pride Weekend.
9:11
Yeah.
9:12
Maybe go astray from the random selection
9:17
just for this one.
9:18
I don't know.
9:19
Oh, like you think there's shenanigans?
9:21
No, I think there should be shenanigans,
9:23
and no one shenanigans.
9:25
They shenanifirsted.
9:26
Like, they need to shenanigan.
9:28
They shenaned.
9:29
They need to shenanigan.
9:30
Yeah, so this didn't happen.
9:32
Yeah.
9:33
It just makes me so happy
9:37
that those two countries,
9:38
of all countries,
9:39
I mean, the important thing to realize,
9:41
if you didn't realize already,
9:43
is that same-sex sexual activity
9:46
between men especially
9:47
in both of those countries
9:49
is severely punished.
9:51
And in lots of parts of Iran,
9:54
especially, the death penalty is warranted
9:57
if the judge decides so.
9:59
So anyway, both Iran and Egypt complained to FIFA,
10:02
and FIFA said, nah.
10:04
Good.
10:05
Mostly because Seattle said,
10:06
we don't fucking care.
10:07
Yeah, it's fucking pride,
10:08
and you have to deal with it.
10:09
Oh, goodness.
10:10
News of the last, Kyle.
10:11
Yeah.
10:12
Since we're talking about lesbian bars,
10:13
this is not a lesbian bar,
10:14
but Knoxville, Tennessee, Club XYZ is closing.
10:19
It's a long-running LGBTQ plus bar
10:23
in Knoxville's Happy Holler area.
10:25
Which I want the gayborhood
10:27
to be called Happy Holler.
10:28
Yeah, that's cute.
10:29
But they're preparing to close
10:30
after more than 20 years in business,
10:32
and that means that there is now
10:34
only one bar left in Knoxville, Tennessee.
10:38
One LGBT bar?
10:39
One LGBT bar.
10:40
Okay.
10:41
Can you imagine if there's only one bar
10:43
and it's a gay one?
10:44
Oh, that kind of might be
10:45
our pathway to acceptance,
10:46
because if you only have one place to drink
10:48
and you're a straight person,
10:49
you're going to go there,
10:50
because drinking is important.
10:52
Yeah.
10:54
The property owner, Daniel Shue,
10:55
said in a statement that
10:56
the community can expect
10:57
a new LGBTQ-allied business
10:59
to open in the space
11:00
in the coming months.
11:02
But Club XYZ's final night in business
11:04
is expected to be Saturday,
11:06
the day that we're recording this.
11:07
So really sorry, Knoxville.
11:09
I think we're going to talk about
11:11
lesbian bars and all of the drama
11:14
around lesbian bars,
11:15
but even queer bars
11:17
that aren't just specific same-gender
11:20
or single-gender spaces
11:22
are also struggling.
11:24
I have some numbers on that.
11:25
I have some gait on that.
11:26
Great.
11:27
Well, that's the news, Kyle.
11:28
Speaking of things
11:29
that are disappearing slowly,
11:31
we have new Patreon numbers.
11:35
No, it's a hate crime.
11:37
Okay, wait.
11:38
Okay, hold on.
11:39
If...
11:40
Hey.
11:41
Hey, Mike.
11:42
If they're not paying us on Patreon
11:44
because they're planning
11:45
on coming on our cruise,
11:46
I can sort of support it
11:48
for a little while.
11:49
You think the $2 a month they save
11:51
from not joining the Patreon
11:53
is going to get them to the cruise?
11:55
I do.
11:56
Yeah?
11:57
Yeah.
11:58
Okay.
11:59
You had to stand your ground on that one,
12:00
didn't you?
12:01
I do.
12:02
I do.
12:03
Okay.
12:04
In my heart.
12:05
Okay.
12:06
What is the cruise
12:07
but, like,
12:08
10 or 15 years of Patreon?
12:13
Yeah, if you want to go on the cruise
12:15
and be a Patreon member,
12:16
we would love you doubly as much.
12:18
You can DP us with your money.
12:21
So, if you want to give us money,
12:24
if you want to support us,
12:26
if you want to add free episodes
12:27
a day early,
12:28
if you want bonus content,
12:29
if you want merch,
12:30
if you want to create
12:31
your own episode topic,
12:32
all those benefits are available
12:34
if you go to patreon.com
12:35
slash gayish podcast.
12:36
Do it.
12:37
I think from now on,
12:38
I'm going to,
12:39
if we don't have Patreon members,
12:40
read the names,
12:41
like, starting from the beginning
12:43
and just start reading
12:45
the names of the earliest
12:46
Patreon members
12:47
to thank them again.
12:48
We'll go a second time through.
12:49
Sure, okay.
12:50
Why not?
12:51
Yeah, why not?
12:52
Go for it.
12:53
Okay.
12:54
I support this.
12:55
Okay.
12:56
It's decided.
12:57
Do you want to talk about lesbian bars?
12:59
I do,
13:00
and before that,
13:02
Before, okay.
13:03
I forgot to say stuff
13:04
before the news,
13:05
so I'm going to say stuff now.
13:06
Okay, what stuff are you going to say?
13:07
I have stuff to say.
13:08
Say them.
13:09
Okay, I will.
13:10
Shut up, Kyle.
13:11
You coward.
13:12
Shut up and talk.
13:13
Happy Pride.
13:14
Happy Pride to us all.
13:15
If you want to join
13:19
our 500th live stream,
13:21
Hey, listen to Kyle.
13:22
Ooh, yeah.
13:23
Shut up and listen.
13:24
Shut the fuck up.
13:26
If you want to come to our
13:28
500th episode live stream,
13:30
that is happening on July 12th
13:31
at 2 p.m. Pacific,
13:33
5 p.m. Eastern,
13:35
join us live to watch us
13:37
answer your questions
13:39
and make some announcements.
13:40
It's going to be great.
13:41
Hey, we have an ultra super secret surprise
13:44
that's happening that day,
13:46
and you will want to be there for it.
13:48
We have a podcast changing announcement to make
13:51
that you will need to tune in to.
13:53
Is it going to be that I'm rage quitting?
13:55
Maybe.
13:56
Is it that 500 is a nice round number?
13:58
We're stopping there?
13:59
Could be.
14:00
There's a big announcement coming,
14:02
and we won't even hint about what it is.
14:04
If it's we're adding a third person
14:06
to the podcast?
14:08
Oh, my God.
14:09
It's like in a relationship.
14:10
Once you add a third podcaster,
14:11
you know you're downhill.
14:14
You're trying to save it.
14:16
I mean, were we ever uphill?
14:18
Oh, good point.
14:20
It's going to be super exciting.
14:21
Be excited, everybody.
14:23
We can't wait.
14:24
Also, for that in preparation,
14:26
we need your questions so we can answer them.
14:27
We have roughly zero,
14:30
so we need them.
14:32
Send us your questions by July 10th, please.
14:35
And you can send us an audio
14:37
and send those to gayish
14:40
plus sign 500.
14:42
Gayish podcast?
14:44
Gayish podcast plus sign 500.
14:46
At gmail.com.
14:47
At gmail.com.
14:49
Also, Patreon.
14:50
What if we've just been fucking up the email address?
14:52
We've gotten thousands of questions.
14:54
That's where all our fan mail is.
14:56
Joe Rogan's like,
14:57
hey, do you want to be in an episode?
14:59
And we just missed it.
15:00
I would do that.
15:01
Joe Rogan?
15:02
Yeah.
15:03
You would do Joe Rogan?
15:04
Oh, yeah.
15:05
I mean that in any way you want to take it,
15:06
but yeah.
15:08
Okay, sorry.
15:09
Enough about my conservative fetish.
15:11
Patreon.
15:12
We have a request for you
15:14
that we've said on the Patreon segments,
15:17
so get your audio in by July 10th as well.
15:20
Okay, now we can talk about lesbian bars.
15:22
Sorry, lesbians.
15:23
You have to wait for the gays.
15:25
Stand back, lesbians.
15:26
We're not done yet.
15:30
Yeah, lesbian bars.
15:32
We've been trying this new thing
15:34
where we talk about personal stuff up front.
15:37
How often have you found yourself in a lesbian bar
15:40
and then wondered, am I a lesbian now?
15:42
Am I a lesbian?
15:44
I don't think so.
15:45
I have gone,
15:46
I think the last time I went
15:48
was maybe when I was like 23
15:51
when I coordinated
15:55
LGBT groups events.
15:58
And I think someone was like,
16:00
hey, whenever you plan bar events,
16:03
you always go to a gay bar.
16:05
And I was like, that's a good point.
16:07
I am a gay man,
16:09
so that's where my head goes to.
16:11
You didn't just say, duh.
16:13
Of course, I'd be.
16:15
And who are you?
16:16
I then planned a night
16:19
at one of the lesbian bars,
16:21
and I don't know that 23-year-old me
16:23
was culturally sensitive enough to be like,
16:25
are you the right person to plan this?
16:27
Should you be there actually or not?
16:30
This group is mostly gay men.
16:32
How's that gonna,
16:33
I didn't think about any of that.
16:34
I just said, let's do it.
16:35
And we did it.
16:37
So that's the last time I was there.
16:39
Everyone was really friendly.
16:40
Someone, I'm presuming a lesbian,
16:43
was in line in front of me,
16:45
and she's like,
16:46
we're trying to be more welcoming and open,
16:48
so that's a really important thing.
16:49
I was like, oh, cool.
16:50
It felt that way.
16:51
And she was like, yeah.
16:52
And then I looked down,
16:53
and she had a hook for a hand.
16:54
Oh, oh.
16:55
That had nothing to do
16:56
with the other stuff we were talking about.
16:58
It's just a true thing that happened.
17:00
Okay.
17:02
So they were, I feel like,
17:04
making an effort to be welcoming of us.
17:06
Yeah.
17:07
I had a good experience,
17:08
but I don't and wouldn't go
17:10
unless I was invited by a lesbian friend these days.
17:12
That's exactly right.
17:13
I think, you know,
17:14
we'll talk more about all of this
17:17
and the culture of it or whatever,
17:18
but like not all spaces are for everyone.
17:22
And you just want to be really careful
17:25
and sensitive to whether your presence is acceptable.
17:29
Yeah.
17:30
Welcome, wanted, needed, accepted.
17:32
Yeah.
17:33
And there has been this, like,
17:34
historically this thought of like,
17:36
so Wild Rose is the lesbian bar up here in Seattle.
17:39
And I've been a few times
17:41
always with, like, friends who are sapphic themselves
17:46
and invited along for whatever night adventure that we're on.
17:50
And there has always been this thought of like,
17:54
they need our money,
17:56
so give them your money.
17:59
But also don't just show up with money
18:02
and think that that means that that's okay to be there.
18:04
Right.
18:05
Yeah.
18:06
I don't know.
18:07
It is a struggle.
18:08
I'm going to talk a little bit more about this actually
18:10
in one of my segments.
18:11
But yeah,
18:12
it is a struggle to try to find the balance
18:13
between you wanting to support a lesbian bar
18:15
and not wanting to prioritize yourself in spaces.
18:18
So if you do go,
18:19
at least make sure you know that you're like,
18:21
whether you're with another person or not,
18:23
like you're a guest there,
18:24
you are not,
18:25
you do not prioritize yourself.
18:26
Tip super fucking well.
18:28
And yeah,
18:29
you're there to support them.
18:30
So give them tons of money.
18:32
Don't get,
18:33
don't become a drunken mess.
18:34
That's not your space to do that.
18:35
Yeah.
18:36
Keep your shit together.
18:37
Put your dick away.
18:38
Put your dick.
18:39
No one wants that.
18:40
And be,
18:41
don't be too loud like Americans in Europe.
18:45
Yeah.
18:46
Yeah.
18:47
I don't know.
18:48
Yeah.
18:49
All good advice,
18:50
Kyle.
18:51
Yeah.
18:52
Okay.
18:53
Tips for going to a lesbian bar if you ain't one.
18:54
Yeah.
18:55
I don't know why I'm the one.
18:56
I don't know what to do at a lesbian bar.
18:59
Just feel,
19:00
just be deeply uncomfortable.
19:01
Don't put on a wig.
19:02
We're good at that actually.
19:03
I'm very good at that.
19:05
I feel it right now.
19:07
Don't put on a wig and show up and go,
19:09
you ladies.
19:17
Is that enough personal stuff?
19:19
Did I have anything else?
19:21
I've gone to less bars overall,
19:24
just as a human,
19:25
because I'm getting older.
19:27
So,
19:28
bars have begun less and less in my life.
19:29
So,
19:30
I don't know.
19:31
It makes sense that I've also not gone to lesbian bars for that reason.
19:33
Is it because I moved far,
19:34
far away?
19:35
We can't,
19:36
we can't influence each other anymore.
19:37
Yes.
19:38
Yes,
19:39
for sure.
19:40
It makes it harder to go up,
19:41
but I don't know.
19:42
I think we do a lot of stuff inside with playing games and stuff,
19:44
people's houses.
19:45
So yeah,
19:46
I think that tends to be the predominant,
19:48
like way I socialize.
19:49
Yeah.
19:50
Yeah.
19:51
True.
19:52
I'm going to talk to you about the history of lesbian bars,
19:54
Kyle.
19:55
Okay.
19:56
And,
19:57
yeah,
19:58
so,
19:59
I mean,
20:00
lesbian comes from.
20:01
Oh,
20:02
sure.
20:03
Sappho of Lesbos means a person from the island of Lesbos and Sappho of,
20:06
of Lesbos was like,
20:08
she was,
20:09
she was a Lesbo man.
20:10
She wrote lots of poetry talking about how hot them other chicks was and how
20:15
much she wanted to do them.
20:16
And,
20:17
but that's legit how lesbian became the word lesbian.
20:21
And of course,
20:22
like bars the way that conceive of them have been around for a few hundred
20:26
years now,
20:27
but before the bar,
20:30
it grew out of,
20:32
so lesbian bars grew out of the prohibition queer underground.
20:35
So in the United States,
20:37
anyway,
20:38
all booze was illegal starting in 1920 by constitutional amendment.
20:42
And then we repealed that in 1933.
20:46
So,
20:47
there's this 13 year period of history that where like all booze was illegal in
20:51
this country.
20:52
Can you imagine like the gays would keep drinking and apparently so did the
20:56
lesbian.
20:57
We'd find a way life finds a way.
20:59
I mean,
21:01
we're so close to Canada,
21:02
you know,
21:03
those are never going to put down the bottle.
21:05
That's a really good point.
21:06
Thanks,
21:07
Canada.
21:08
We respect you for more than just your booze.
21:10
Not that we're allowed in Canada anymore.
21:12
And rightly so,
21:13
but a speakeasy was the name of an establishment that was operating as a bar
21:17
or Tavern underground and illegally during the prohibition era.
21:21
And a speakeasy,
21:23
the served queer people was just one more illegal thing in a building of
21:27
already illegal things.
21:28
But,
21:29
but so when speakeasy culture was really taking off,
21:32
queer people were like,
21:33
these straight people can have secret bars.
21:36
We could have secret bars.
21:37
Yeah.
21:38
And so we did.
21:39
So,
21:40
and that gave queer nightlife to cover to flourish in ways that it hadn't
21:43
really before.
21:44
Thanks.
21:45
Prohibition.
21:46
Thanks.
21:47
Prohibition buffet flats were the proto lesbian bar.
21:50
There were private apartments that you could find booze,
21:54
gambling,
21:55
all kinds of things and quote,
21:58
all manner of sexual partners,
22:00
according to a guide from the time.
22:03
And after hours venues that were run out of black Harlemites homes,
22:09
they were originally lodging for black travelers that were shut out of
22:12
segregated hotels,
22:13
but those evolved into spaces where gay lesbian,
22:16
gender nonconforming people could just do their thing.
22:19
And a queer and commercial sex flats were flourishing even before
22:24
prohibition,
22:25
but prohibition is sort of creates the environment for the people that
22:30
were operating lesbian ish bars in those apartments.
22:35
Then like,
22:36
they already had the infrastructure to expand into the speakeasy niche.
22:40
Yeah.
22:41
Makes sense.
22:42
A Lelia Walker's dark tower salon in 1927.
22:47
It was on,
22:48
it was in New York.
22:49
It was a 108 West 136th street.
22:52
And it was like the,
22:53
the fanciest,
22:54
the ritziest end of this world.
22:57
Do you have stuff on this already?
22:59
No,
23:00
I'm trying,
23:01
I'm keeping an eye on what I do have to see if it overlaps.
23:03
Okay.
23:04
So heiress to the Madam CJ Walker haircare fortune,
23:08
a Lelia through legendary parties.
23:12
We're talking like caviar and champagne,
23:15
and she welcomed queer and straight guests equally,
23:19
which was quite unusual for the time Langston Hughes.
23:23
It said she sent hundreds of invitations.
23:25
And if you came late,
23:26
you just couldn't get in.
23:27
Wow.
23:28
And,
23:29
but that was like a famous example of this era.
23:31
And this like,
23:32
not all lesbian bar,
23:33
but like there's a lesbian bar.
23:35
Gladys Bentley is the patron Saint of the tuxedo.
23:39
She was a 250 pound black openly lesbian blues performer who played
23:43
Harlem's gay speakeasies,
23:45
including Harry Hansberry's clam house,
23:48
which that's a fantastic name for a lesbian bar in a white tuxedo and a top
23:53
hat and growled,
23:54
raunchy lyrics had a chorus of drag Queens behind her.
23:59
She publicly married big old quotes around Mary,
24:03
but married a white woman in a civil ceremony in Atlantic city.
24:06
She was just like super extra Lesbo.
24:10
Wow.
24:11
This is what was her name?
24:12
Gladys Bentley.
24:13
Gladys Bentley.
24:14
That's a name to remember.
24:15
I'm not going to remember.
24:16
I'm so sorry.
24:17
Gladys.
24:18
It's okay.
24:19
She's real dead.
24:20
Okay.
24:21
But yeah,
24:22
so she becomes this sort of iconic figure that represents lesbian bar
24:29
culture in a way that you can still see a lot of influences.
24:33
If you know where to look in 1952,
24:35
she published an essay in Ebony claiming that she'd been cured of her
24:39
lesbianism and had married a man.
24:41
Oh boy.
24:42
Was it a funny joke or an April 1st episode?
24:46
Well,
24:47
I mean,
24:48
no publication.
24:49
No,
24:50
no.
24:51
It was in 1952 though.
24:52
And lots of people who have studied her life believe that that was just a
24:57
horrible move that post world war two,
25:00
we took a big old like shift to the conservative side of things during the
25:05
Eisenhower administration.
25:06
And that it was like a lot of lesbian spaces and out.
25:10
Lesbian folks were like running back underground and giving up queer
25:16
identity because it was unsafe.
25:18
That's so sad.
25:19
I wonder what that's like living in a conservative hellscape.
25:23
Yeah.
25:24
Yeah.
25:25
Give it a couple of years.
25:26
Let's see what happens.
25:27
Okay.
25:28
So yeah,
25:29
Mona's in San Francisco is the bar that everyone calls the first lesbian
25:33
bar in America.
25:34
Mona and Jimmy Sargent were a married couple,
25:37
but they opened Mona's on union street in 1934.
25:41
And in 1936 moved it to North beach.
25:44
And by the time it final,
25:47
it moved a few times and then its final home was four 40 Broadway.
25:50
And it was called Mona's four 40 club.
25:54
The slogan of the bar was where girls will be boys,
25:57
which that seems problematic.
25:59
But yeah,
26:00
it was the thirties.
26:01
Yeah.
26:02
Yeah.
26:03
Yeah.
26:04
I think there's some things that we used to be better at in some ways
26:06
about incorporating like trans and non-binary people and gender non
26:09
conforming people.
26:10
Like we used to all be the riff raff and illegal and whatever.
26:15
So we all,
26:16
I think we're a little bit together more.
26:18
We didn't have words for all these distinct things.
26:20
So like gay was the closest you could find.
26:22
I don't think that's better or worse.
26:23
I think it's just different than how it was today.
26:25
And I could see people using that kind of line in earlier times.
26:29
I think there was definitely a like incorrect,
26:33
but a well-natured sort of belief that.
26:39
If you are a gay man,
26:41
you are a woman trapped in a man's body,
26:43
but if you were a gay woman,
26:44
you were a,
26:45
a man trapped in a woman's body.
26:48
And so you see these slogans,
26:50
like where girls will be boys as a nod to that.
26:53
And even people who were,
26:55
had queer identities thought that of themselves.
26:57
Yeah.
26:58
Those are the best they could pinpoint what was happening for themselves
27:00
because we didn't have the language around it.
27:02
Exactly right.
27:03
Exactly right.
27:04
But so at,
27:05
at Mona's four 40 club,
27:06
the female waitstaff and entertainers all performed in tuxedos.
27:09
Cool.
27:10
The whole aesthetic was women claiming masculine drag in public for an
27:13
audience that came specifically for that.
27:17
Now Mona's catered to the local queer community,
27:19
not slumming tourists.
27:21
So there were a bunch of queer ish night spots that existed for straight
27:25
folks to come watch the pansies that existed.
27:28
But Mona's was the first openly lesbian club that was aimed at actual
27:33
local lesbians to come and be,
27:36
you know,
27:37
have their space and Gladys Bentley herself headlined there.
27:41
Plus a woman named Beverly Shaw,
27:43
Francis Faye and moms Mabley.
27:45
Now you gotta be a little bit careful calling it the first lesbian bar in
27:49
the U S there are places that say that she,
27:53
that Mona's was the first lesbian bar in San Francisco.
27:56
And first in America is a popular claim.
28:00
That's repeated lots of places,
28:02
but it's really,
28:03
really hard to prove because of prohibition.
28:05
Like there were places that like,
28:07
you know,
28:08
lesbian bars that quote unquote open in 1933.
28:11
Well,
28:12
that just happens to be when prohibition,
28:14
right?
28:15
So it's,
28:16
it's really hard to know who the first was exactly,
28:18
but by the mid fifties,
28:20
a new owner named Ann D bought it,
28:22
renamed it.
28:23
Ann's 440 club and stopped being lesbian.
28:26
Oh yeah.
28:31
Yeah.
28:32
Just like with gay men,
28:34
lesbian bars became like the cultural center.
28:38
Right.
28:39
Right.
28:40
And we've talked about the pros and cons of that when it comes to gay men,
28:43
but the same calculus can be made for women of like,
28:48
is a place that the sole purpose is to get hammered and cruise.
28:53
Is that healthy community,
28:55
but it was the community that we had.
28:57
Yeah.
28:58
Right.
28:59
And lots of like really good social organizing and community work got done
29:04
through bars,
29:06
but it was this sort of like,
29:08
the best that we could do,
29:09
right?
29:10
Like we didn't have churches for gay people.
29:11
We didn't have employee resource groups for gay people.
29:15
You had gay bars and lesbian bars.
29:17
Yeah.
29:18
Yeah.
29:19
I'm trying to think of what the ideal situation is.
29:20
Like,
29:21
I don't know that we have,
29:22
like it said,
29:23
I don't think we have it figured out now that we,
29:24
Oh,
29:25
like that,
29:26
that was rough when bars were there,
29:27
our main go-to place.
29:28
So good thing we changed it in now.
29:29
And we have,
29:30
I don't know what would end that sentence.
29:34
So I don't know that we figured it out.
29:35
We just need a gay church,
29:36
Kyle.
29:37
Yeah.
29:38
I would love a gay church.
29:39
We just need a,
29:40
a Jesus with a huge dick and everybody worships him.
29:44
Oh,
29:45
can we make it just like the head peeking through a loin cloth?
29:48
Like we don't want to go like full dong right away,
29:51
but a little head peeking out.
29:53
Yeah,
29:54
absolutely.
29:55
Yeah.
29:56
Okay.
29:57
A hundred percent.
29:58
What would we call it?
29:59
The church of gayology.
30:00
That might be a little on the nose.
30:02
Oh,
30:03
okay.
30:04
Okay.
30:05
Fair.
30:06
Yeah.
30:07
Okay.
30:08
I'll get back to you.
30:09
Okay.
30:10
Home with homotheistic.
30:11
I do like that.
30:12
Okay.
30:13
Yeah.
30:14
It's like church of homotheism.
30:15
And we just got,
30:16
I don't know,
30:17
Kyle or the Britney Spears commemorative.
30:21
She could be a patron saint.
30:22
Okay.
30:23
Oh my God.
30:24
All the,
30:25
all the divas would be the patron saint Britney.
30:26
Yeah,
30:27
absolutely.
30:28
St.
30:29
Cher.
30:30
We should do Madonna.
30:31
Yeah.
30:32
We should do like,
30:33
um,
30:34
the sisters of the traveling faces.
30:35
Yes.
30:36
The sisters of the traveling faces.
30:37
You know how the sisters of the traveling faces?
30:38
We are saints.
30:39
We're saints.
30:40
One.
30:41
We were sainted by them.
30:42
We should at least know their name.
30:43
That's very fair.
30:44
That is very fair.
30:45
I'm a saint.
30:46
I can do whatever the fuck I want.
30:47
That's true.
30:48
Um,
30:49
and,
30:50
but we could create our own saint program and St.
30:51
Madonna.
30:52
How many times do you think she's been sainted?
30:53
Like probably by a bunch of different places.
30:54
Maybe by the sisters of perpetual.
30:55
Probably by the sisters of perpetual.
30:56
Okay.
30:57
Okay.
30:58
Okay.
30:59
Okay.
31:00
Okay.
31:01
Okay.
31:02
Okay.
31:03
I don't know.
31:04
I don't know.
31:05
I don't know.
31:06
Probably by the sister perpetual.
31:07
Yeah.
31:08
Anyway,
31:09
if the half of us,
31:10
it's pretty easy.
31:11
Um,
31:12
let's see.
31:13
There is a,
31:14
a book that was written in 1993 called boots of leather,
31:17
slippers of gold and historians,
31:19
Elizabeth of Lipovsky Kennedy and Madeline Davis spent about 14 years
31:23
collecting oral histories from 45 women of Buffalo,
31:27
New York's working class lesbian community from the thirties to the
31:31
nineties.
31:32
And it was the first comprehensive history of lesbian community.
31:36
And they talked a lot about bar culture,
31:40
lesbian bar culture.
31:41
And they,
31:42
they said that butch femme wasn't a style.
31:45
It was a social code.
31:46
And the bar was where you performed it.
31:49
And I think that's really interesting because like you think about like
31:52
gay dudes get all gussied up and they're like twink uniform to go to,
31:56
to the bars.
31:57
And it was very much the same sort of idea of like helping each other
32:02
butch up for getting dressed for each other at the lesbian bar.
32:06
There were police raids,
32:08
just like with gay bars,
32:09
the lights would flick on.
32:10
There's a scramble.
32:11
People would get arrested,
32:12
but just like with gay bars,
32:14
lesbian bars were frequently mafia owned.
32:17
And for one blunt reason,
32:19
legitimate operators couldn't or wouldn't run them.
32:22
So organized crime stepped into the vacuum in the 1960s in New York city.
32:26
The Genovese family controlled most of Greenwich villages,
32:30
gay and lesbian bars.
32:32
And it was both protection and exploitation at the same time for mafia to
32:38
own and operate your bar.
32:40
What a weird fucked up relationship.
32:41
Um,
32:42
was it just because bar owners couldn't make a profit off of lesbian bars
32:48
that or gay bars for that matter,
32:50
that mafia owned it?
32:51
Well,
32:52
we'll talk about the legal stuff here,
32:55
in a segment later in the episode,
32:57
but strictly speaking in a lot of places,
32:59
it was illegal to operate a bar that was for gay people.
33:03
So the mafia organized crime would pay off the authorities.
33:09
And so it was like,
33:10
as an independent bar owner,
33:11
you didn't have the leverage to make the police go away,
33:16
but the mafia did.
33:17
Gotcha.
33:18
Gotcha.
33:19
Anyway,
33:20
that's,
33:21
that's a lot of stuff to talk about,
33:22
but like,
33:23
uh,
33:24
lesbian bars and gay bars have pretty similar parallel paths.
33:27
Um,
33:28
but definitely have their own distinct cultural things.
33:31
And,
33:32
and yeah,
33:33
yeah.
33:34
I'm going to tell you some data about lesbian bars.
33:36
I want to hear it.
33:37
Okay.
33:38
You told us the history.
33:39
Now we're going to look at more recent trends.
33:40
Cause I have data from 2017 to 2023.
33:42
Okay.
33:43
Um,
33:44
and actually there are four year data points from four years,
33:47
2017,
33:48
2019,
33:49
2021,
33:50
2023,
33:51
and 2017 and 2019 are sourced from the dam run travel guide,
33:57
which is the only national and most complete listing for LGBTQ places.
34:01
That also indicated the specific sub communities they served,
34:05
which is important when you not just LGBT bar,
34:08
we need lesbian bar.
34:09
Sure.
34:10
So we need to have indicated what location or what sub community.
34:14
Uh,
34:15
cater to,
34:16
uh,
34:18
Um,
34:20
so the 2021 and 2023 data points come from a census of gay bars taken from
34:22
February to May of their respective years.
34:24
Uh,
34:25
they labeled the bars as one of the following,
34:28
mostly or only men.
34:29
Cruisy or leather.
34:31
Uh,
34:32
is its own category.
34:33
Um,
34:34
that primarily they acknowledge that serves primarily men as well.
34:37
So I was going to ask.
34:38
Yeah.
34:39
I thought you maybe full body.
34:41
I roll me.
34:42
If I,
34:43
no,
34:44
no,
34:45
that's legit when that's broken out.
34:46
That also for men.
34:47
Yeah.
34:48
Mainly for men.
34:49
Um,
34:50
there's mixed men and women.
34:51
Sorry,
34:52
non-binary people.
34:53
You are not on the list.
34:54
Lesbian is its own category and people of color is its own category as
34:57
well.
34:58
Again,
34:59
from people of color that are men or like,
35:01
Oh,
35:02
it didn't.
35:03
I don't think it said,
35:04
or like do black lesbians get both labels?
35:06
Like,
35:07
Oh,
35:08
interesting.
35:09
Yeah.
35:10
I don't know that much about the bars that were catering to people of
35:12
color.
35:13
If you're going to invent a labeling system,
35:14
prepare for intersectionality,
35:15
Kyle.
35:16
I,
35:17
maybe they did.
35:18
I just didn't read it.
35:19
It was a very short study and I still didn't read the whole thing
35:22
because it was just these four years and data points.
35:26
And they put together a chart.
35:27
I actually typed up the data in the chart.
35:29
They had some numbers wrong.
35:30
They did some math wrong or did some weird funky things to the math that
35:34
I don't understand.
35:35
Um,
35:36
cause the numbers didn't add up like I expected them to anyway.
35:38
So this is my data that I put together based on their data of the
35:42
1,777 LGBTQ bars in 2017.
35:47
Uh,
35:48
this was the breakdown.
35:49
24% were mixed men and women,
35:51
uh,
35:52
42% just a 0.1 percentage points lower.
35:55
Um,
35:56
42% though was mostly or only men.
35:58
And,
35:59
uh,
36:00
7.1% were cruisier leather,
36:03
7.6,
36:06
0.7% were people of color and 1.9 were lesbians.
36:11
Okay.
36:12
So not very many,
36:14
not very many.
36:15
1.9% is a pretty small number,
36:17
especially considering there are 42% are men or mostly men.
36:21
Um,
36:22
there are,
36:23
I don't know,
36:24
there's like roughly the same number of lesbians as there are gay men.
36:26
Right?
36:27
Sure.
36:28
It's in the ballpark of each other,
36:30
right?
36:31
A few percentage points.
36:32
Like for sure,
36:33
if there's 5% of us,
36:34
there might be 3% of them or 4% of them or 5% of them.
36:36
Right.
36:37
Yeah.
36:38
Okay.
36:39
Yeah.
36:40
So nothing that would make it.
36:41
So this level of disparity would explain it just based on the numbers.
36:44
Yeah.
36:45
Um,
36:46
cause a lot of people are like,
36:47
Oh,
36:48
well like the number,
36:49
the percentage of actual lesbians that exist in the world is pretty small
36:51
when you think about the available people.
36:53
And it's like,
36:54
well,
36:55
yeah,
36:56
so are gay men.
36:57
That's a small number of people too,
36:58
but we still have enough bars for us.
36:59
Right.
37:00
So that's not the answer.
37:01
Anyway,
37:02
that's not part of the study.
37:03
That's just a side thing.
37:04
Um,
37:05
the total number of LGBT LGBT bars from 2017 to 2023,
37:08
declined by 20.5%.
37:11
Uh,
37:12
remember that COVID is in there.
37:14
So that resulted in a lot of places shutting down sometimes permanently.
37:18
Well,
37:19
and also queer people famously were better at the pandemic than straight
37:23
people.
37:24
Straight people bars stayed open because straight people went to them.
37:30
Like my parents are fucking neighbors that were jet setting out.
37:33
They're like,
37:34
did you know the seats are so cheap right now?
37:36
And it's like,
37:37
yes,
37:38
yes,
37:39
I did.
37:40
In fact,
37:41
no,
37:42
that stop being an asshole.
37:43
Stop being an ass.
37:44
God,
37:45
I forgot how angry people made me during that time.
37:47
Oh,
37:48
that was horrible.
37:49
Anyway,
37:50
for lots of reasons.
37:51
Anyway,
37:52
of the 856 LGBT bars left in 2023,
37:55
uh,
37:56
the change in percentage of total bars are.
37:59
So I'm not going to give you the change,
38:01
like the number of bars,
38:02
like increase or decrease.
38:04
I'm going like before the mixed men and women's space was the highest
38:07
percentage.
38:08
That was 42.2% of the total number of bars.
38:11
So in 2023,
38:13
that number increased to,
38:14
it was 62% of the total number of bars.
38:18
So there are overall less bars,
38:20
but that increased by almost 20 percentage points,
38:25
uh,
38:26
in terms of the mix of,
38:27
uh,
38:28
bar types.
38:29
So it tells you that the other categories were hit even harder.
38:32
Other categories.
38:33
Some of them were hit harder.
38:34
For example,
38:36
men are mostly men decreased by about 20 percentage points.
38:40
Um,
38:41
so that counts for mostly accounts for the change in we're getting less game
38:46
male spaces and more mixed men and women's spaces,
38:49
which I think I see personally as well.
38:51
Do you see that?
38:52
Yeah.
38:53
Yeah.
38:54
I think some of the bars that I used to associate as men only are now
38:57
include lots of gender presentations.
39:00
Yep.
39:02
Although maybe that's a Seattle thing because we're true.
39:04
No,
39:05
it seems to be reflected in overall trends.
39:06
So I think that's true of other places too.
39:09
Cruisy or leather decreased by less than one percentage point.
39:12
So pretty negligible.
39:13
Same for bars catering to people of color.
39:15
It decreased by less than one percentage point.
39:17
Uh,
39:18
lesbian bars,
39:19
uh,
39:20
their percentage of the total increased by,
39:22
uh,
39:23
by 1.4 percentage points.
39:24
So it was previously in 2017,
39:26
1.9%.
39:28
In 2023,
39:29
it was 3.4%.
39:32
Which is still bad,
39:33
but still very,
39:34
very low,
39:35
but it's interesting that we hear the narrative that lesbian bars are going
39:42
then that's correct.
39:43
And also it's interesting that if you look at the smaller trends,
39:46
like the last five years or so,
39:48
they've actually,
39:49
Oh,
39:51
that was the percent.
39:52
They make up a higher percentage of the total.
39:54
Uh,
39:55
the number of lesbian bars did actually increase as well from 15 to 29.
40:00
Oh,
40:01
so it almost doubled,
40:02
uh,
40:03
from 20.
40:04
So that's from 2019 when is at its low to 2023.
40:08
So it is interesting that they're making a little bit of a comeback.
40:11
And I wonder if the visibility,
40:15
the acknowledgement that lesbian bars are dying has inspired people to go,
40:20
or there's a TV show about it there.
40:22
There's a lot of things that have been covering this.
40:24
And yeah,
40:25
I wonder if that's had any benefit.
40:27
Yeah.
40:28
Interesting.
40:29
Yeah.
40:30
Maybe.
40:31
I hope so.
40:32
I hope so too.
40:33
Save them,
40:34
save the whales,
40:35
save the lesbian bars.
40:36
Think about language there.
40:38
What else you got?
40:39
Uh,
40:40
I wanted to talk to you about like the legal stuff about,
40:43
about lesbian bars.
40:44
And,
40:45
and we talked a little bit about the mafia thing and why,
40:48
uh,
40:49
but like the,
40:51
the,
40:52
the,
40:53
the whole fight has always been about liquor licenses.
40:56
Like it's not about like,
40:57
no,
40:58
you can't get scissor or like,
41:00
you know,
41:01
it's never all like about the thing specifically.
41:03
It's about like indirectly things that you're allowed to or not allowed to do
41:07
as that identity.
41:08
But like,
41:09
even during those times when like gayness was illegal,
41:13
it still wasn't how lesbian bars were like oppressed,
41:19
I guess.
41:20
So like nobody was really being prosecuted for being gay,
41:22
but,
41:23
but the state would go after a bar's license and the liquor authority,
41:27
but for each state is,
41:28
it was usually the choke point.
41:30
So,
41:32
then the gathering place vanishes.
41:33
Nobody shows up to a bar that doesn't have booze.
41:36
Yeah.
41:37
Except for Derek.
41:38
Well,
41:39
you know,
41:40
he would,
41:41
he would go to the shit out of that bar.
41:42
Yeah,
41:43
probably.
41:44
I went to a,
41:45
I went to an alcohol free lesbian bar in Washington,
41:47
DC.
41:48
There's those are two things that two categories you don't fit into.
41:51
I know.
41:52
It was very awkward.
41:53
Um,
41:55
that's when we were in DC for the podcast.
41:58
Oh yeah.
41:59
I didn't go.
42:00
No.
42:01
Why not?
42:02
I don't know.
42:03
I don't remember that.
42:04
Yeah.
42:05
So,
42:06
okay.
42:07
So the thing was serving gay people,
42:08
major bar,
42:09
a disorderly house,
42:10
which,
42:11
you know,
42:12
if you write a law vaguely enough,
42:14
then you could just pretty much use it for whatever you don't like.
42:17
And then you enforce it.
42:18
And then to try to say like,
42:20
that's not what the law means.
42:21
You have to go through the judicial process.
42:23
So that takes time.
42:24
And in,
42:25
during that time you can keep doing the thing that is kind of maybe a
42:28
little bit legal.
42:29
Are we talking about ice?
42:30
Oh,
42:31
we're talking.
42:32
Yeah.
42:33
Yes.
42:34
We're talking about a lot of things.
42:35
I mean,
42:36
you also need ice for a bar,
42:37
but sure.
42:38
Yeah.
42:39
But not,
42:40
not a deal breaker.
42:41
Yeah.
42:42
Not that kind of ice.
42:43
Uh,
42:44
so the state liquor authority in New York had statutory power to revoke the
42:46
license of any owner who let the premises become disorderly.
42:48
And the legislature deliberately never defined disorderly.
42:51
Right.
42:52
Also,
42:53
just to be very clear,
42:54
fuck ice.
42:55
Okay.
42:56
I didn't,
42:57
I didn't make that very clear when we were talking.
42:58
We just talked about it.
42:59
Oh,
43:00
not our feelings about it.
43:01
So yeah.
43:02
Yeah.
43:03
Fuck ice.
43:04
Okay,
43:05
great.
43:06
Yeah.
43:07
I would,
43:08
I would let an illegal immigrant take care of my dog.
43:09
Well,
43:10
before I would let a mega person take,
43:11
Oh God.
43:12
Yeah.
43:13
Can you imagine?
43:14
Okay.
43:15
So the state liquor authority in New York,
43:16
uh,
43:17
stated that a bar merely patronized by homosexuals was a disorderly house.
43:24
And in 1959,
43:25
they announced a campaign to revoke the licenses of every bar patronized by
43:29
prostitutes or homosexuals.
43:30
And you didn't have to have sex to prove that there was no sex required.
43:34
Just being there was the violation itself.
43:37
And that's why the mafia ran the bars because the legitimate owner couldn't
43:41
keep a license while serving gay patrons.
43:44
And the only operators willing to take the risk were organized crime.
43:47
And so,
43:48
so if there's a niche,
43:50
somebody is going to do it right.
43:52
And,
43:53
and so it's not like the mafia was like,
43:55
Hey,
43:56
let's go start a bunch of gay bars.
43:59
They just saw an opportunity and went for it.
44:00
Yeah.
44:01
Uh,
44:02
be gay,
44:03
do crimes means so much.
44:04
There's so much depth to that phrase that,
44:05
yeah,
44:06
it's a,
44:07
it's actually more important than I realized.
44:09
Yep.
44:10
So Stalin versus Riley,
44:11
which is a California Supreme court case in 1951,
44:13
that was the first LGBTQ legal victory in us history.
44:17
Wow.
44:18
But San Francisco's black cat cafe had its license suspended for letting
44:22
persons of known homosexual tendencies.
44:25
That's a quote known homosexual tendencies gather.
44:28
And,
44:29
uh,
44:30
the California Supreme court reversed unanimously quote,
44:33
mere proof of patronage without proof of the commission of illegal or
44:36
immoral acts on the premises is not sufficient.
44:39
Um,
44:40
so just being there is not disorderly.
44:42
You've got to do something disorderly.
44:44
So the gay said,
44:46
hold my beer.
44:47
Um,
44:48
now,
44:49
uh,
44:50
but lesbian bars then had protection from that,
44:54
that court ruling.
44:56
Uh,
44:57
the black cat was more of a gay men's bar,
44:59
but like that case led to a bunch of lesbian bars,
45:02
then having sort of similar protections.
45:06
So then the California legislature passed the resort for sexual perverts
45:11
statute.
45:12
That's 1955.
45:13
Jesus Christ.
45:14
And they made a license revocable where the premises were quote,
45:18
a resort for illegal possessors or users of narcotics,
45:21
prostitutes,
45:22
pimps,
45:23
panderers,
45:24
or sexual perverts.
45:25
I'm a sexual pervert and that's not because I'm gay,
45:28
but it's not not because I'm gay.
45:30
Yep.
45:32
Is that a,
45:33
is that a filter on Sniffy's that I don't know about?
45:36
Yeah,
45:37
it's a secret one.
45:38
You have to know some coding to get in there,
45:40
but you can find it.
45:41
You have to like,
45:42
what's your frequent flier card gets to a certain place.
45:46
Yeah.
45:47
You have to fuck like at least a hundred guys before it'll let you
45:50
unlocked.
45:51
Oh my God.
45:54
If they had achievements like report,
45:56
if you hooked up with this person and like did you like little achievements
45:59
like a whole new level of gamifying that I think would be pretty cool.
46:03
Yeah.
46:04
We could write that app,
46:05
Kyle.
46:06
I love it.
46:07
Should we?
46:08
Yeah.
46:09
Great.
46:10
It's called homotheistic.
46:11
Yeah.
46:12
Oh my God.
46:13
If our gay church came with achievements,
46:15
getting closer to getting to gay heaven.
46:18
Oh my God.
46:19
So good.
46:20
So,
46:21
so good.
46:22
So,
46:23
so all of that led to this.
46:24
There was this lesbian bar,
46:25
Mary's first and last chance.
46:26
It was in Oakland,
46:27
California.
46:28
It was a lesbian bar co owned by Mary Azar and her brother-in-law,
46:31
Albert.
46:32
And their license was revoked in 1956 under the sexual perverts statute.
46:37
And the California Supreme court struck down using that statute against
46:41
mere status,
46:42
homosexual patronage without proof of improper conduct on the premises
46:45
still wasn't good cause.
46:47
And so the statute was repealed in 1963 at the alcoholic beverage
46:52
controls on request.
46:54
So people,
46:55
people,
46:56
people didn't realize that like actually finally getting protections in the
47:01
state of California.
47:02
Anyway,
47:03
that that was,
47:04
that was because of a lesbian bar,
47:05
they were at the forefront there.
47:07
So the Mattachine society,
47:09
they,
47:10
you know,
47:11
tried to make a bunch of bars into gay bars by just like any bars,
47:15
a gay bar,
47:16
if you bring enough friends.
47:17
And so,
47:18
but they did it by walking into a bar with reporters in tow and yelling,
47:24
I'm a homosexual.
47:26
And then trying to order a drink so that the bar would refuse,
47:30
which I think just screaming,
47:33
I'm a homosexual.
47:34
It should probably get you refused service.
47:36
Anyway,
47:37
it's like me at Christmas that one year.
47:39
Yeah.
47:40
Yeah.
47:41
Yeah.
47:42
Yeah.
47:43
So have you heard this three article of clothing rule?
47:46
Yes.
47:47
But I believe we've talked about this previously.
47:49
It's not true.
47:50
Right.
47:51
There wasn't like,
47:52
I don't know if anyone can find where it was actually written down or where
47:55
this was codified anywhere or how people were hearing about this.
47:58
Like,
47:59
where did it come from?
48:00
Well,
48:01
no such numbered law was ever on the books.
48:02
It was an urban legend,
48:03
but a very persistent one and a very powerful one,
48:05
even at the time.
48:06
But I think it's different than an urban legend because I think people
48:09
actually use that guideline to help make arrests.
48:12
Right.
48:13
Or is it apocryphal?
48:15
It just wasn't,
48:16
it was just,
48:17
wasn't a statute.
48:18
I know it's not stat.
48:19
Yes.
48:20
Yes.
48:21
And I think that was kind of surprising to some people.
48:22
And also I thought they were using that guideline some way,
48:27
even if it wasn't somewhere in the laws.
48:29
Well,
48:30
it definitely impacted lesbian bars that way without it being actually the
48:35
law raids would regularly arrest,
48:37
butch lesbians and trans women and gay men in drag under all of these,
48:42
like articles of clothing rules that weren't actually laws.
48:47
And because culturally,
48:49
like we put,
48:50
we police women's bodies so heavily in,
48:53
in our culture that go butch lesbians,
48:56
like did the shocking sin of wearing pants and,
49:00
and that had to be stopped.
49:02
Yeah.
49:03
But it turned out that these like these sort of just attire based
49:07
harassment really hurt lesbians and lesbian bars more than gay men by
49:13
some accounts.
49:14
Again,
49:15
like I did an address like whatever is funny,
49:18
but a woman in pants was like a threat to the patriarchy and they got
49:22
really fucking accosted for it.
49:25
So yeah.
49:27
And then Stonewall,
49:28
like a bunch of stuff changed,
49:30
got better after Stonewall.
49:32
There's still fights about it for sure.
49:34
But the private club workaround that you were sort of talking about before
49:39
is a big old question mark in a lot of places about like whether it is a
49:46
viable workaround or not for these laws,
49:49
especially pre Stonewall.
49:50
But even,
49:51
even now,
49:52
like if you start a private club and have a membership,
49:55
do you get to do stuff that would be illegal in other establishments if
50:01
they were open to the public and different States have different
50:05
setups for,
50:06
for that.
50:07
But there's there are private clubs that have lesbian only spaces
50:11
associated with them.
50:13
And there is some fight a little bit over whether that is a lawful exclusion,
50:19
right?
50:20
Like a bar that's open to the public,
50:23
even if it's a male space,
50:25
you can't kick women out,
50:27
at least not in Washington state.
50:29
You can't kick women out of a bar.
50:33
At least not in Washington state.
50:35
You just make it really,
50:36
really uncomfortable for them and like hope that they get the point.
50:40
Yeah.
50:41
Kind of,
50:42
kind of.
50:43
Yeah.
50:44
And,
50:45
or you can't segregate based on race,
50:46
like race is a protected class that.
50:47
Exactly right.
50:48
Exactly right.
50:49
But can you,
50:50
or should you be able to,
50:51
if it is a private club and it,
50:54
it turns out probably because of the patriarchy again,
50:56
that like,
50:57
like women who have tried to start private clubs that are for women only
51:01
lesbian only spaces have sometimes not had the law on their side.
51:06
And,
51:07
and so it depends on,
51:09
like we were saying at the very beginning of the show,
51:11
it sort of depends on people who don't belong there to sort of get the clue
51:14
and not be a dick.
51:15
You know what I mean?
51:16
Literally don't be a dick.
51:17
Don't be one.
51:19
Don't have one.
51:20
Just respect,
51:21
respect the respect,
51:22
the space or whatever.
51:23
So yeah,
51:24
that's the legal status of like,
51:26
hey,
51:27
can you have a space that is for women only?
51:30
Or for men only,
51:31
but like for women only,
51:32
uh,
51:33
is that,
51:34
is that allowed or should it be,
51:36
is still debated?
51:38
I mean,
51:39
is that the same question that we have of gay bath houses?
51:42
Sort of.
51:43
Right.
51:44
I don't ever feel like I hear debates about that.
51:47
Like whether,
51:48
I mean,
51:49
we do,
51:50
we just heard one in a state that was bringing it back,
51:51
but like in Washington,
51:52
like no one's debating on whether we should have Steamworks or not.
51:55
Except in those cases,
51:57
it's specifically a nude space.
51:59
And lots of places in the law,
52:02
bathrooms,
52:03
the same shit that's hurting trans people.
52:06
Genitals are like,
52:08
Oh my God,
52:09
everybody freaks out.
52:10
And so like segregating those spaces,
52:13
nude spaces,
52:14
bathing spaces,
52:15
changing rooms,
52:17
segregating those by gender.
52:19
And let's face it.
52:20
We're talking about gender.
52:21
We're talking about genitals is very much part of the legal landscape.
52:25
But if everybody has their clothes on and they're just drinking,
52:28
that's what makes it different as a category.
52:31
Interesting.
52:32
You don't buy that?
52:34
I think that sometimes they let in people with vaginas to some of the bath
52:39
houses based on certain nights.
52:41
But dudes with vaginas?
52:43
Yeah.
52:44
Yeah.
52:45
I mean,
52:46
that's where we've arrived,
52:48
right?
52:49
In a liberal blue state like Washington,
52:52
we have these super ass old archaic laws about nudity.
52:57
The nudity is about gender,
52:59
but we're progressive enough to say that gender is not what's in your pants.
53:03
So like letting a dude with a vagina into a male only space,
53:08
that's if you squint justifiable under the law.
53:13
Interesting.
53:14
You also didn't call it a bubble,
53:16
which I appreciate.
53:17
Oh sure.
53:18
Yeah.
53:19
Interesting.
53:20
I don't know.
53:21
Yeah.
53:22
What do you got Kyle?
53:23
I'm going to do my segment that I did not tell you what it was in advance.
53:26
Okay.
53:27
You said you had a secret.
53:28
A surprise.
53:29
You called it a surprise.
53:30
I called it a surprise.
53:31
It's not that good.
53:32
So don't,
53:33
I don't know.
53:34
It's every segment everywhere all at once.
53:35
Ooh.
53:36
Okay.
53:37
Because I feel like when I tell you that it kind of spoils it.
53:38
So that's what I'm doing.
53:39
I really wish that I had wiener fingers right now.
53:42
If I had wieners for fingers.
53:47
Like dicks or wieners?
53:48
You know what?
53:50
Wiener dogs.
53:51
One hand to one,
53:52
one hand to the other.
53:53
We're going to start every segment everywhere all at once with a game.
53:58
Okay.
53:59
This game is lesbian bar or lesbian bookstore.
54:02
Oh, okay.
54:03
Because I'm doing a small,
54:04
oh,
54:05
every segment everywhere all at once is I do a bunch of segments,
54:07
but a little piece of what that segment would be.
54:09
So I'm giving you one question.
54:11
Okay.
54:12
One question.
54:13
Okay.
54:14
Great.
54:15
That question is either a lesbian bar or a lesbian bookstore.
54:16
It is Cheris Books.
54:17
That's a bookstore.
54:20
Tell me your thought process.
54:22
I was like,
54:23
well,
54:24
that's clearly,
54:25
that's clearly a lesbian bar because it says books of the title.
54:27
And Kyle wants to fuck with me,
54:29
but maybe he would know that I would think that.
54:31
So it actually is a bookstore that has the word books in it.
54:34
And he's,
54:36
but it's,
54:37
it's like the princess bride with the Iocane powder.
54:40
Like I clearly can't use the glass in front of you.
54:47
Kyle.
54:48
It's a bookstore.
54:49
Okay.
54:50
Is that your final answer?
54:51
Yes.
54:52
It is a bookstore.
54:53
I did do the thing you thought of trying to double,
54:56
double flip it.
54:58
I switched classes with you when your back was turned.
55:00
I am very surprised.
55:04
You,
55:05
I didn't know that I didn't think you would think that I would think
55:07
that strategically.
55:08
So interesting.
55:09
Yes.
55:10
It is found.
55:11
It was founded in 1974,
55:13
independent bookstore in the Atlanta area.
55:15
It's one of the South's oldest independent feminist bookstores.
55:18
They specialize in feminist literature,
55:20
LGBTQ fiction and nonfiction,
55:22
cultural studies,
55:23
anti-racism,
55:24
and have a diverse set of children's books.
55:26
Fuck.
55:27
Yeah.
55:28
The next segment I'm doing is an ask Reddit for the patron bonus segment.
55:31
We'll do a full ask Reddit about people's beliefs on why they don't think
55:36
there are enough lesbian bars,
55:38
which the truth of why and people's beliefs about it are very different.
55:42
And it's interesting to see what some people believe.
55:44
Anyway,
55:45
but this ask Reddit is called the title of it was death of lesbian bars
55:49
posted to late bloomer lesbians by a deleted user.
55:53
And this user said,
55:54
since there aren't really a lesbian bars anymore,
55:57
someone should start opening cozy,
55:59
lesbian spots,
56:00
lesbian bookstore.
56:01
There are,
56:02
there are some,
56:03
we,
56:04
which we just learned lesbian tea room,
56:05
lesbian cat cafe,
56:06
et cetera.
56:07
Keep them open.
56:08
Late hosts,
56:09
cat cafe.
56:11
If it isn't a sustainable business model,
56:14
it could be a speakeasy style.
56:15
Like in the back room of another business,
56:17
sigh,
56:18
a girl can dream.
56:19
My favorite response to that con that post was cat cafes and vegan restaurants
56:26
are good spots.
56:27
In the meantime,
56:28
I really appreciated that.
56:31
But if you can't find a good lesbian bar,
56:33
just go to the vegan cafe and that's where you'll find the lesbians.
56:37
Yeah.
56:38
Um,
56:40
Now it is the definition of lesbian bar.
56:43
Okay.
56:44
What do you,
56:45
what do you think was going to happen?
56:48
I don't know.
56:49
I was thinking like,
56:50
what if like some kind of punny joke about like,
56:53
like it's a bar,
56:54
not the kind that you drink at,
56:56
but like,
56:57
like,
56:58
like a candy bar or like a,
56:59
like a,
57:00
you know,
57:01
like a dove chocolate bars.
57:02
Oh,
57:03
you were right when you started talking and then you ended that.
57:07
When you started talking about,
57:08
it's a punny joke.
57:09
Uh,
57:10
the definition is a bar where even the pool table doesn't have balls.
57:16
Okay.
57:17
But lesbians love pool.
57:18
I know that's the struggle I have with this joke is like any gay bar you go to,
57:23
there are lesbians playing pool somehow.
57:25
Like even if they don't have a pool table when they started the night,
57:28
there are lesbians playing pool somehow.
57:30
Yep.
57:31
Yep.
57:32
And yeah,
57:33
uh,
57:34
I have a brief history.
57:35
Um,
57:36
while not a bar,
57:37
one of the earliest known lesbian gathering spaces was called Eve's hangout.
57:41
Okay.
57:42
This is what I was checking to see if the name,
57:44
um,
57:45
it was founded in 1925 in Greenwich village and it is a tea room that was shut
57:49
down by the police.
57:50
Sure.
57:51
Well,
57:52
um,
57:53
and lastly,
57:54
I have some data from a 2022 study called the impact of lesbian bar ownership
57:58
in on USA,
57:59
lesbian bar geographies.
58:01
There's even more to the title,
58:02
but I just read that part.
58:04
I just got tired by the second line.
58:07
I was like,
58:08
I'm done,
58:09
uh,
58:10
by Gregor Mattson.
58:11
Uh,
58:12
uh,
58:13
they interviewed 15 women owners of lesbian and LGBT bars.
58:16
And part of the results that I thought were most fascinating for that.
58:19
I wanted to include in this segment is that no owners prioritize women's only
58:24
places.
58:25
All of them actively refused that idea.
58:28
Instead,
58:29
many,
58:30
uh,
58:31
reported practices to prioritize women in their spaces.
58:33
Sure.
58:34
But the idea that one of the reasons that women's or lesbian bars don't exist
58:39
is because they're catering only to women and excluding a big percent.
58:42
That doesn't seem to be the goal of the owners of at least,
58:46
you know,
58:47
this is 15.
58:48
So take it for what you will,
58:50
but at least in one study,
58:52
it says that they are not actively trying to only cater to women.
58:55
So check yourself on whether you think it,
58:58
a lesbian bar is only for women or is it prioritizing women and you can still
59:03
go as a guest and sure.
59:05
Yeah.
59:06
Under situations we described earlier.
59:07
Yeah,
59:08
yeah,
59:09
yeah,
59:10
yeah.
59:11
That was every segment everywhere.
59:12
All at once.
59:13
Look at you,
59:14
Kyle.
59:15
Yeah.
59:16
Now I'm worried that we have the same segment.
59:17
Oh,
59:18
do you have the same thing?
59:19
What's your ask credit going to be about?
59:20
Is it going to be more about the decline?
59:22
It's going to be the reason people think that there aren't enough lesbian
59:26
bars.
59:27
Okay.
59:28
Are we going to learn the truth?
59:30
Yeah.
59:31
Oh yeah.
59:32
Let's do the truth.
59:33
No,
59:34
that's not an overlap because this will be able to see if they're telling the
59:36
truth or not.
59:37
Well,
59:38
okay.
59:39
So they call it the great vanishing Kyle.
59:41
Oh,
59:42
I saw it called,
59:43
let me,
59:44
I wrote it down just in case the great lesbian bar die off is what I saw.
59:48
It called.
59:49
Yep.
59:50
Yep.
59:51
That is also,
59:52
that's also true.
59:53
And the lesbian bar project in 2020 really did a lot of work to sort of
59:56
bring visibility to the issue.
59:59
But then also spark the conversation about like,
1:00:01
well,
1:00:02
well then why and what's actually happening.
1:00:04
But,
1:00:05
and I remember us talking about this on an episode previously,
1:00:07
I think you brought up the lesbian bar project at one point.
1:00:10
And I forget which episode,
1:00:11
because why would I remember?
1:00:12
Yep.
1:00:13
Yep.
1:00:14
Maybe in 2020,
1:00:15
can you,
1:00:16
we were doing the show back then we were doing the show all through the
1:00:18
pandemic.
1:00:19
Isn't that weird?
1:00:20
Yeah.
1:00:21
So they used to be everywhere and now they're almost gone.
1:00:23
Like that's the,
1:00:24
the,
1:00:25
the headline,
1:00:26
whether it's true or not,
1:00:27
that that's the headline.
1:00:28
Now there were about 200 lesbian bars operated in the United States in,
1:00:33
in the eighties,
1:00:34
by the peak of the eighties.
1:00:36
And then by 2019,
1:00:38
2020,
1:00:39
when the lesbian bar project started,
1:00:41
researchers and the lesbian bar project counted just 15 still standing.
1:00:47
And some sources said 21,
1:00:48
but that's the whole drama,
1:00:50
right?
1:00:51
Like it's like 90% of them evaporated over a course of 20 years,
1:00:55
no 40 years.
1:00:57
So the arithmetic is the thing that everybody quotes,
1:01:00
but the numbers are coming from somewhere specific.
1:01:02
And there's a sociologist named Gregor Mattson who built,
1:01:05
that's the guy who did this study that I just read.
1:01:08
Yeah.
1:01:09
The Dameron guides,
1:01:10
right?
1:01:11
That's what you just got.
1:01:12
Oh,
1:01:13
no,
1:01:14
I was talking about those as well,
1:01:15
but no,
1:01:16
Gregor Mattson is the one that did the thing about he interviewed 15
1:01:19
lesbian and LGBT business owners,
1:01:21
but he also built a 40 year database from the Dameron guys.
1:01:24
Cool.
1:01:25
And the modest rebound is that the count has roughly doubled in the last
1:01:31
few years,
1:01:32
depending on who's counting and what counts as lesbian,
1:01:35
because it's a bar that's open to everybody that prioritizes women.
1:01:39
Is that a lesbian bar?
1:01:40
Yeah.
1:01:41
And does that depend on who you ask?
1:01:42
Yeah.
1:01:43
I think it counts as a lesbian bar.
1:01:46
I would do,
1:01:47
but I don't know if the numbers bear that out or not.
1:01:49
So there are two filmmakers that Erica Rose and Alina street,
1:01:53
and they launched the lesbian bar project in 2020 in the depths of the
1:01:57
pandemic to celebrate and financially rescue,
1:02:00
hopefully what were thought to be the last 15 lesbian bars in the country.
1:02:04
And there was a PSA that was narrated by Leah deliberate Deliveria,
1:02:09
who was from orange is the new black,
1:02:11
but it was a 30 day fundraiser that was backed by Jaeger Meister to,
1:02:15
to try to save these bars.
1:02:18
And apparently it worked.
1:02:19
It didn't just chronicle that the bars were vanishing,
1:02:22
but the publicity plus the money from the campaign helped fuel the rebound.
1:02:26
And they started reopening now they're competing theories for the
1:02:31
decline.
1:02:32
And it's probably a combination of things,
1:02:35
probably a combination of all of those things.
1:02:38
And that's the problem.
1:02:41
So this isn't necessarily what people think,
1:02:44
but they are theories.
1:02:45
So it is what people think.
1:02:46
So I don't know,
1:02:47
Kyle,
1:02:48
maybe we save this for Patreon.
1:02:49
Maybe is it not with like the public in mass things or is that what you
1:02:54
mean?
1:02:55
Well,
1:02:56
there is no single cause each.
1:02:57
All of these theories are different argument about what a lesbian bar was
1:03:00
for and what replaced it or why it went away.
1:03:03
And it's almost certainly a combination of all of these factors.
1:03:07
That is the truth.
1:03:08
Yeah.
1:03:09
So you want to go through all of them that are the truth versus the gender
1:03:13
wealth gap women and queer women,
1:03:16
especially have less disposable income than gay men and bars are vicious when
1:03:21
it comes to real estate and keeping them open can be difficult because they pay
1:03:25
rent increases,
1:03:26
whether the patrons are,
1:03:28
you know,
1:03:29
showing up and drinking or not.
1:03:31
And lesbian bars historically didn't charge cover or push expensive things
1:03:35
like bottle service as part of their like experience.
1:03:39
And owners have reported being denied bank loans and the math just kind of
1:03:44
works against them in a way that it didn't for gay men's bars,
1:03:48
that it's,
1:03:50
not vibes or anything cultural about how lesbians work.
1:03:53
It's just that women make less than men and have less disposable income.
1:04:00
And the math is harder to make work for,
1:04:04
for a lesbian bar.
1:04:08
I don't know what the wage gap is in this country.
1:04:12
15,
1:04:13
30% of whatever it is of someone's of every potential patrons income.
1:04:18
And you're,
1:04:19
you might be out of your margins.
1:04:21
You might be gone now.
1:04:22
Yep,
1:04:23
exactly right.
1:04:24
And all of these,
1:04:25
the places that we have queer spaces tend to be big cities that are more
1:04:30
expensive anyway.
1:04:32
Yeah.
1:04:33
Right.
1:04:34
There's the assimilation theory that basically as acceptance rose,
1:04:37
we didn't need the safe spaces anymore that you didn't need to have a hidden
1:04:41
dike bar to hold your girlfriend's hand anymore.
1:04:44
There's a Smithsonian curator named Catherine Ott,
1:04:46
who said,
1:04:50
before.
1:04:51
And that success killed the institution.
1:04:54
Hmm.
1:04:55
By the way,
1:04:56
I've said this before,
1:04:57
but on the lesbian bar episode,
1:04:59
we should,
1:05:01
Do you remember when we used to say dyke and faggot went to each other way
1:05:04
more?
1:05:05
Yeah.
1:05:06
Like not you and I,
1:05:07
I mean like people to like lesbians would call us faggots.
1:05:10
It's all the time.
1:05:11
And that was just,
1:05:12
I don't know.
1:05:13
I enjoyed that time and I appreciate that.
1:05:15
And I thought it was,
1:05:16
I think lesbians have total right to say that word.
1:05:19
And you got to know the context.
1:05:21
Like,
1:05:22
I don't know,
1:05:23
even if it was some random stranger,
1:05:24
if she was,
1:05:25
if we were having a amicable conversation or she was approaching it in a
1:05:28
nice,
1:05:29
funny,
1:05:30
friendly,
1:05:31
you know,
1:05:32
certain way,
1:05:33
then I think it's totally fine.
1:05:34
But I,
1:05:35
I wouldn't venture a dyke these days.
1:05:37
Hmm.
1:05:38
Maybe a dyke on a bike.
1:05:39
Maybe if it was like Romaine,
1:05:41
someone that I'm like,
1:05:42
I feel comfortable enough to know that you're okay with this because you've
1:05:45
called me a faggot too.
1:05:46
And that's totally acceptable.
1:05:47
Like I,
1:05:48
I feel like there's some kind of like level of trust there that I could,
1:05:52
I could call Romaine a dyke and it would be okay.
1:05:55
That's how you know you've made it.
1:05:57
That's how you know.
1:05:59
Apps and the internet replaced the room that,
1:06:02
um,
1:06:03
uh,
1:06:04
lesbians apparently have dating apps like her and Lex.
1:06:06
I had not ever heard of those before.
1:06:08
So you have heard of her because,
1:06:10
um,
1:06:11
that's where,
1:06:12
uh,
1:06:13
Chris and Shana used to,
1:06:14
their podcasts used to be owned by her.
1:06:16
Oh,
1:06:17
well,
1:06:18
I'll be damned,
1:06:19
but that dating apps for lesbians also the same way that there was downward
1:06:23
pressure for gay men to then go hang out and cruise and drink and meet people
1:06:26
at bars.
1:06:27
That the same thing has happened to them.
1:06:29
Yeah.
1:06:30
And the margins are tighter and that made it harder to keep their bars open.
1:06:34
There's the identity label shift,
1:06:36
uh,
1:06:37
that lesbian as a label has contracted that the community has.
1:06:40
Is that a true thing?
1:06:41
Or is that a social belief?
1:06:43
Um,
1:06:44
so I don't know.
1:06:47
I would be interested.
1:06:49
Maybe we can do a followup in another episode or something.
1:06:51
Like,
1:06:52
I'd be curious if the use of the let the term lesbian has actually gone down
1:06:55
by generation or if that's people's belief that it has a not.
1:06:59
I wonder what the data says.
1:07:02
the narrative is that the community has broadened to use queer,
1:07:05
non-binary,
1:07:06
trans inclusive,
1:07:07
gender,
1:07:08
non-conforming language.
1:07:09
And that has prompted gin,
1:07:12
prompted genuine debate over whether a lesbian bar should be women only,
1:07:15
how trans inclusion reshapes that space.
1:07:18
And anecdotally I have like younger queer people in my life now,
1:07:22
and the more femme or female presenting ones are less likely to use the word
1:07:29
lesbian.
1:07:31
I'm not data,
1:07:32
but like anecdotally they seem to use that word way less than Dykes,
1:07:36
my age.
1:07:37
Let's see.
1:07:38
So we used to not have that many options.
1:07:41
You were like gay or lesbian.
1:07:42
Right.
1:07:43
Yep.
1:07:44
Yep.
1:07:45
And then like,
1:07:46
by God included,
1:07:47
you know,
1:07:48
for a little bit until trans,
1:07:49
you know,
1:07:50
it used to just be lesbians and gays.
1:07:51
Yep.
1:07:52
Yep.
1:07:53
Yep.
1:07:54
Yep.
1:07:55
Yep.
1:07:56
Yeah.
1:07:57
The,
1:07:58
uh,
1:07:59
queer bar here in Seattle,
1:08:00
which is going through its own controversy,
1:08:02
controversy because the queer,
1:08:04
um,
1:08:05
queer bar is being bought out by the cuff complex,
1:08:07
which is a male dominated space.
1:08:11
And so people are worried about what it means for non male pan queer folks
1:08:17
and,
1:08:18
uh,
1:08:19
drag.
1:08:20
Like it's one of the places on the Hill that consistently has drag in
1:08:23
Seattle.
1:08:24
Yeah.
1:08:25
But if they're keeping the name as queer bar,
1:08:27
like you gotta be,
1:08:28
you gotta be the full spectrum of people.
1:08:30
That's what the anxiety is about.
1:08:31
Like if they,
1:08:32
if the cuff complex folks are buying queer bar,
1:08:34
how much are they going to change it?
1:08:35
Yeah.
1:08:36
Hopefully they keep it similar or the same.
1:08:38
Um,
1:08:39
maybe it'll go back to her.
1:08:40
Oh God.
1:08:41
God,
1:08:42
I spent,
1:08:43
I wasted so much time in per.
1:08:44
Yeah.
1:08:45
But yeah,
1:08:46
but yeah,
1:08:47
if,
1:08:48
if,
1:08:49
if there are queer bars that are friendly to lesbians,
1:08:50
do they need to have lesbian bars anymore?
1:08:52
And that this trend of moving towards pan queer spaces,
1:08:56
non-specifically male queer spaces,
1:08:58
does that dilute the available audience to keep a lesbian bar open?
1:09:02
But I wonder what part of that is a reaction to the loss of lesbian bars,
1:09:07
not the cause of like,
1:09:08
I wonder if by realizing there are less lesbian spaces,
1:09:12
we as queer people,
1:09:13
hopefully recognize that like it's important for lesbians to be able to
1:09:17
gather and trans people and gender non-conforming people and by people,
1:09:21
you know,
1:09:22
insert all of the different labels and,
1:09:25
and they all need spaces and deserve spaces to hang out and like,
1:09:29
come on into our tent.
1:09:30
We got you.
1:09:31
Like not every space.
1:09:32
There are some super gay male spaces,
1:09:34
so it's not every bar,
1:09:35
but a lot of bars are totally fine.
1:09:37
Having lots of genders and presentations and identities.
1:09:42
And if there's a dark room in the back,
1:09:43
that's probably not,
1:09:44
it might not be for you.
1:09:45
And that's fine.
1:09:46
Keep your Jaeger.
1:09:47
I guess that we're drinking now because they supported us.
1:09:50
Keep your Jaeger out front.
1:09:51
Yeah.
1:09:52
That's fine.
1:09:53
I don't not like Jaeger.
1:09:54
I know it's very polarizing.
1:09:55
Really?
1:09:56
I do not like Jaeger.
1:09:57
And then the last one is gentrification that the neighborhoods have changed
1:10:01
and that rising rents and an influx of well-paid often male tech bros push
1:10:06
out the working class neighborhoods that hosted traditionally Dyke
1:10:10
bars,
1:10:11
San Francisco's Lexington club closed in 2015 and owner,
1:10:15
Lila Thirtfield said,
1:10:20
that has dramatically changed.
1:10:22
And I know Capitol Hill here in Seattle has had similar struggles,
1:10:26
fears,
1:10:27
challenges that like it is super as expensive.
1:10:31
And this is the Bohemian fun part of town that people want to be.
1:10:34
So that's where the tech bros hang out.
1:10:37
And then that raises the price of everything and starts to push out the
1:10:42
people who were traditionally part of this neighborhood.
1:10:46
So anyway,
1:10:48
those are the,
1:10:49
those are the,
1:10:50
those are the things.
1:10:51
Well,
1:10:52
I'm going to read on Patreon the things that people think that are the
1:10:55
causes and we'll,
1:10:56
we'll decide how accurate we think they are and then make fun of them a
1:10:59
little bit.
1:11:00
Okay.
1:11:01
Let's do it.
1:11:02
Yeah.
1:11:03
Did we do it?
1:11:04
We don't have to,
1:11:05
I mean,
1:11:06
lesbian bars are clearly very gay.
1:11:07
So that's not a question.
1:11:08
So what question do we ask at the end of this?
1:11:11
Would you,
1:11:12
can you see yourself?
1:11:13
We both said that we don't go to lesbian bars.
1:11:14
Could you see yourself going to one now that we've talked a little bit more
1:11:17
about it?
1:11:18
Yeah.
1:11:20
And I have been,
1:11:21
I like boyfriend has a bunch of like queer friends and I'm robbing the
1:11:26
cradle.
1:11:27
So they're all younger than me.
1:11:28
And they've like invited us out.
1:11:32
And I think I've been to wild rose,
1:11:34
which is the lesbian bar here in Seattle.
1:11:36
I think I've been to wild rose more times in the last three years,
1:11:38
dating him.
1:11:39
Then the 15 years previous to that being out here in Seattle.
1:11:44
So you hit a little bit of the personal info.
1:11:46
Yeah.
1:11:47
How's your experience been at the wild rose?
1:11:49
Fine.
1:11:50
Great fun.
1:11:51
Yeah.
1:11:52
Do you get any like weird looks or bartenders that don't,
1:11:56
but also I'm super polite and non like problematic and like non intrusive.
1:12:02
I stand politely and I don't try to push in front of anybody and I say
1:12:07
please and thank you and pay for my drink and get out of the line.
1:12:09
Like I,
1:12:10
you know,
1:12:11
so not saying that my present presence might not be a problem for some
1:12:14
people,
1:12:15
but like in the spectrum of problematicness,
1:12:17
I think I'm pretty low.
1:12:18
Yeah.
1:12:19
I think this has taught me that I,
1:12:21
I didn't,
1:12:23
I thought don't go to a lesbian bar unless you're an invited guest.
1:12:26
And now I feel like I might be opening the door a little bit to like,
1:12:30
go,
1:12:31
you can go as a guest without someone inviting you.
1:12:34
If you are respectful and do all those things you're describing because
1:12:38
they need your patronage.
1:12:39
And it doesn't appear to be that at least the owners are demanding a woman
1:12:44
only space.
1:12:45
So yeah.
1:12:46
Well,
1:12:48
Do you want to take a break and go to a bar?
1:12:50
Let's go to the Wild Rose.
1:12:51
That has been recognized as like,
1:12:53
I think the longest running lesbian bar in the U S or something like that.
1:12:58
It has some title that I thought was really interesting.
1:13:01
One of the didn't write down.
1:13:02
So the Wild Rose in Seattle,
1:13:03
it was established in 1984.
1:13:05
It was opened New Year's Eve,
1:13:07
1984 by a collective of five women.
1:13:09
It is Seattle's only lesbian bar and one of the oldest continuously operating
1:13:13
in the country.
1:13:15
But the wild side West in San Francisco was established in 1962.
1:13:23
It was founded by Pat Ramseyer and Nancy white.
1:13:28
It is San Francisco's oldest lesbian bar.
1:13:30
It has moved around a bunch.
1:13:33
And so does that matter?
1:13:37
Like if you move,
1:13:38
is it the same bar I think is part of the thought there there's the cubby
1:13:42
hole in New York city.
1:13:43
That's in the West village.
1:13:45
It's been there since 1987.
1:13:47
It was renamed the cubby hole in 1994.
1:13:52
So even though it's been there and has been lesbian the whole time,
1:13:55
it did change names.
1:13:57
Is it the same bar?
1:13:58
If it's the same,
1:13:59
I don't think that counts as continuously operating then.
1:14:00
Right?
1:14:01
Yep.
1:14:02
Exactly.
1:14:03
Henrietta Hudson in New York city.
1:14:04
It was established in 1991 and the owner,
1:14:07
Lisa canistracchi says that it's the longest running lesbian bar in the
1:14:11
country, but it is a queer human bar.
1:14:14
So is it still a lesbian bar?
1:14:17
I think if they prioritize women,
1:14:19
then it is a Sue Ellens in Dallas was established in 1989.
1:14:25
It's Texas's oldest lesbian bar named for the Dallas TV character.
1:14:30
Walker's pint in Milwaukee was established in 2001.
1:14:34
It's Milwaukee's oldest lesbian bar and a league of her own in Washington,
1:14:39
DC, which we went to when we were there,
1:14:41
that's it was still open and doing its thing and being a lesbian bar.
1:14:45
But yeah,
1:14:46
the wild rose here in Seattle,
1:14:47
depending on how you slice it,
1:14:49
it's the one of the,
1:14:51
if not the oldest continuously operating lesbian bar in the country.
1:14:54
Cool.
1:14:55
You thought the episode was over and you just got to tell more facts.
1:14:58
Yeah.
1:14:59
Look at that.
1:15:00
Spitting them,
1:15:01
spitting them left and right.
1:15:02
So should we,
1:15:03
should we take a break and go to the wild rose?
1:15:04
I never spit.
1:15:05
Yeah.
1:15:06
Let's go to the wild rose.
1:15:07
Okay.
1:15:08
No.
1:15:09
Are we back?
1:15:16
We're back.
1:15:17
We're back.
1:15:18
We are going to do our gayest and straightest.
1:15:19
We're going to do our gayest and straightest.
1:15:20
But first,
1:15:21
Hey Kyle.
1:15:22
Hey Mike.
1:15:23
If you wanted to go on a cruise,
1:15:24
would you go on it with me?
1:15:25
Yes.
1:15:26
You're gonna.
1:15:27
I already signed up for it.
1:15:29
Well,
1:15:30
before it was forever away and it was never going to happen.
1:15:32
Now it's in less than a year.
1:15:33
Now it's like nine months away.
1:15:35
I can have a baby by then.
1:15:37
It's eight months away.
1:15:38
Oh,
1:15:39
I couldn't have a baby by then.
1:15:40
You could eat a baby.
1:15:41
I could have a preemie by then.
1:15:42
Oh,
1:15:43
wow.
1:15:44
You went different directions with that.
1:15:45
Again,
1:15:46
you podcast.com slash cruise.
1:15:47
Come on the cruise.
1:15:48
Come on the cruise.
1:15:49
Come on my face.
1:15:50
Bring your book.
1:15:51
Bring your sign.
1:15:52
It's February 7th through 14th.
1:15:53
It's the Mexican Riviera leaves out of LA.
1:15:54
It's going to be with Derek and remain.
1:15:56
And it's going to be fun.
1:15:57
Speaking of books.
1:15:58
Yeah.
1:15:59
We didn't,
1:16:00
I think there might be a relevant book that we did not mention in the main
1:16:02
episode.
1:16:03
That's absolutely true.
1:16:04
Yep.
1:16:05
Derek found it.
1:16:06
He would quit his job if we didn't talk about this book.
1:16:08
So here it is.
1:16:09
If you want some more information about the nation's lesbian bars,
1:16:12
there is a book called the lesbian bar chronicles of the living history and
1:16:16
hopeful future of America's dike dives and Saffix spaces by Rachel carp,
1:16:20
co-creator of the podcast cruising.
1:16:22
And get it wherever books are sold,
1:16:25
except our website.
1:16:27
We would have had her on the show.
1:16:31
If we'd known that this was.
1:16:32
We've done 10 seconds of research.
1:16:35
Book just came out.
1:16:36
Even if we had,
1:16:37
it wouldn't have been,
1:16:38
you know?
1:16:39
Yeah.
1:16:40
And please do the things in preparation for our 500th episode.
1:16:44
Jesus Christ.
1:16:45
Get it together.
1:16:46
Everybody that includes,
1:16:47
we need them desperately.
1:16:48
We are desperate.
1:16:49
We are,
1:16:50
it is 4 AM on sniffies and we are desperate.
1:16:53
So load us up with your questions.
1:16:56
I'll try a new tactic,
1:16:57
Kyle.
1:16:58
Oh,
1:16:59
okay.
1:17:00
If you don't send in your fucking questions so that we can answer them on
1:17:02
our 500th episode.
1:17:03
I'm just going to ask chat GPT to ask us questions.
1:17:07
Oh,
1:17:08
that's our only option.
1:17:10
And,
1:17:11
uh,
1:17:12
y'all fucking hate AI.
1:17:13
We know this because we've talked to you about it.
1:17:15
So if you'd want not to us to not turn to AI.
1:17:20
As a friend.
1:17:21
Yeah.
1:17:22
As a lover.
1:17:23
Yeah.
1:17:24
As an intimate partner.
1:17:25
Yeah.
1:17:26
Then you need to fend us off with your questions.
1:17:27
Um,
1:17:28
send those in by July 10th to gauge podcast plus sign 500 at gmail.com.
1:17:31
And also join the live stream at,
1:17:33
uh,
1:17:34
on July 12th.
1:17:35
Uh,
1:17:36
that's a Sunday at 2 PM Pacific.
1:17:37
Do it,
1:17:38
do it.
1:17:39
Um,
1:17:40
our website is gauge podcast.com.
1:17:41
Yeah.
1:17:42
We are on social media at gauge podcast.
1:17:43
You can find links to our Facebook group or our discord or other ways to
1:17:46
stay in touch with us at gauge podcast.com slash contact our hotline.
1:17:49
You can send us text messages or leave us voicemails,
1:17:51
especially if it's your gayest and straightest or your questions for the
1:17:55
500th episode.
1:17:56
It's a five,
1:17:57
eight,
1:17:58
five,
1:17:59
five gauge.
1:18:00
Seven,
1:18:01
four,
1:18:02
seven,
1:18:03
four standard great supply.
1:18:04
Our email is gauge podcast at gmail.com.
1:18:05
Or if you want to send your questions,
1:18:06
it's gauge podcast plus sign 500 at gmail.com.
1:18:09
Our physical mailing address is post office box one,
1:18:11
nine,
1:18:12
eight,
1:18:13
eight to Seattle,
1:18:14
Washington,
1:18:15
nine,
1:18:16
eight,
1:18:17
one on nine.
1:18:18
We'll even take your fucking questions there.
1:18:19
No,
1:18:20
we won't.
1:18:21
We're not going to get the mail before that.
1:18:22
Okay.
1:18:23
Um,
1:18:24
let's do our games.
1:18:25
Let's do our games.
1:18:26
Do you want me to go first?
1:18:27
No,
1:18:28
I'll go.
1:18:29
You don't have to.
1:18:30
You can go first.
1:18:31
I'm just saying.
1:18:32
My gayest is I hired a plumber to fix my sink that has been broken for many
1:18:37
years.
1:18:38
Um,
1:18:39
and I've just been dealing with it and I finally did it.
1:18:41
And there is the straight male tendency to,
1:18:45
when you're interacting with some kind of service person that knows a lot of
1:18:48
things about something to pretend like you also know the things that kind of
1:18:52
try to like be like,
1:18:53
no,
1:18:54
Oh yeah,
1:18:55
I did.
1:18:56
I did not attempt that.
1:18:57
I said what I knew and just,
1:18:59
and said,
1:19:00
and then when he asked questions,
1:19:01
I said,
1:19:02
I do not know.
1:19:03
I am unsure.
1:19:04
Great.
1:19:05
I,
1:19:06
I don't know the answer.
1:19:07
I didn't try to make it.
1:19:08
I said,
1:19:09
it might be this thing,
1:19:10
but it might not be.
1:19:11
Cause I don't know how this works.
1:19:12
So like I,
1:19:13
the fact that I did not pretend to and get all chummy and try to.
1:19:16
Yeah.
1:19:17
Fake,
1:19:18
a fake knowledge was part of my guest.
1:19:20
In Atlanta.
1:19:21
I was talking to this Twinkie go,
1:19:22
go boy with a giant dick.
1:19:23
And he was talking to me about like all of his hacking experience,
1:19:26
which as a,
1:19:27
as somebody who's been in the tech industry for like 20 years,
1:19:31
everything he said was incorrect.
1:19:33
It's just,
1:19:34
I just wanted to pat him on both heads and say,
1:19:38
no,
1:19:39
sweetie,
1:19:40
that's not how that works.
1:19:41
Did you though,
1:19:42
but correct him?
1:19:43
No,
1:19:44
no.
1:19:45
You just listened and look,
1:19:46
just keep,
1:19:47
just keep talking.
1:19:48
Just keep dancing.
1:19:49
My straightest is being annoyed at pride.
1:19:54
I left my home this morning and forgot that there is a,
1:19:58
with the street fair kind of thing that,
1:20:00
that happens and it's already set up and,
1:20:03
uh,
1:20:04
there are already people walking through and I was annoyed because I wanted
1:20:07
to get to where I was going and I should dodge around people and stores
1:20:11
that extend into the sidewalk now.
1:20:13
And I was just like,
1:20:16
I just want to walk.
1:20:17
I live in a gay neighborhood and I'm still one of the fastest walkers.
1:20:21
So yeah,
1:20:22
that's how fast I walk.
1:20:24
You should get an award.
1:20:25
I should,
1:20:26
I don't get enough awards.
1:20:29
What about you?
1:20:30
Uh,
1:20:33
uh,
1:20:38
Congratulations.
1:20:39
Thank you.
1:20:40
With a couple's massage and a private suite at the spa.
1:20:46
And it was just so like hourly.
1:20:49
Yeah.
1:20:50
Oh really?
1:20:51
It was so gay.
1:20:52
It really was an hourly suite.
1:20:54
Yeah.
1:20:55
Okay.
1:20:56
What?
1:20:57
I didn't know that.
1:20:58
I was joking.
1:20:59
I thought you meant you stayed the night somewhere,
1:21:01
but no,
1:21:02
you can get an hourly suite.
1:21:04
A few hours.
1:21:05
Yeah.
1:21:06
Wow.
1:21:07
They really do just say fuck here.
1:21:08
And they came and did our couples massage there.
1:21:10
And like,
1:21:11
and it was classy.
1:21:12
It wasn't like a bath house,
1:21:13
you know,
1:21:14
it did have a bathtub.
1:21:15
That was fun.
1:21:16
Okay.
1:21:17
Like it was just,
1:21:18
it was real gay.
1:21:19
I loved it.
1:21:20
Nice.
1:21:21
Uh,
1:21:22
and then the straightest thing about me this week,
1:21:23
um,
1:21:24
uh,
1:21:25
boyfriend and I were talking to an interior designer,
1:21:27
just about like,
1:21:28
how much does that cost?
1:21:29
And what do interior designers do exactly?
1:21:32
And she was talking to us about all of this stuff.
1:21:34
And I did not have any opinions.
1:21:36
I have no opinions,
1:21:38
no taste,
1:21:39
no instincts.
1:21:40
I just like,
1:21:41
sure.
1:21:42
Have you looked at her like catalog or whatever and been like,
1:21:47
Oh,
1:21:48
I look kind of like this stuff.
1:21:49
Well,
1:21:50
she told us not to do that.
1:21:51
Oh,
1:21:52
why?
1:21:53
And she said,
1:21:54
because this is such horse shit,
1:21:55
Kyle.
1:21:56
Okay.
1:21:57
If you're an interior designer,
1:21:58
I'm sorry,
1:21:59
because you probably say things like this to your,
1:22:00
to your clients or potential clients.
1:22:02
But she was saying,
1:22:03
if you look at somebody else's,
1:22:04
if you look at an interior designers portfolio,
1:22:06
that's the story they're telling about someone else's life,
1:22:10
not your life,
1:22:11
but you probably pick the work you're proud of.
1:22:13
I would think.
1:22:14
Yeah.
1:22:15
Yeah.
1:22:16
I mean,
1:22:18
I get,
1:22:19
I get what she's saying and why,
1:22:20
anyway,
1:22:21
you do.
1:22:22
Do you want to explain it to me?
1:22:23
Like,
1:22:24
if someone says you must put this sconce here and it has to be this far from
1:22:28
the ceiling and whatever,
1:22:29
and you're like,
1:22:30
that's dumb,
1:22:31
but I have to do it.
1:22:32
Cause my client told me to like,
1:22:33
I don't know.
1:22:34
Yeah.
1:22:35
Yeah.
1:22:36
Yeah.
1:22:37
Yeah.
1:22:38
Yeah.
1:22:39
Then that's the portfolio.
1:22:40
She might be shown.
1:22:41
Yeah.
1:22:42
Yeah.
1:22:43
I just,
1:22:44
I did not have that gay gene.
1:22:45
Same.
1:22:46
Oh,
1:22:47
she's gay straight and here is.
1:22:49
Hi,
1:22:50
Mike and Kyle.
1:22:51
It is your friend McKenzie.
1:22:53
On time listener.
1:22:55
Sometimes person has given you gayest and straightest
1:22:58
a con in from Philly.
1:23:00
Today I have my gayest and straightest in one go.
1:23:05
Gayest was going on a little walk with my little gay girlfriend and hi,
1:23:11
and we were listening to the Star Trek or Fleshlight quiz because she's a
1:23:17
Trekkie and she ended up getting eight out of 10, right?
1:23:20
Just really good.
1:23:22
And my straightest was pausing every time we walked past a nice straight
1:23:27
person, a straight couple so that we would not get too gay around them.
1:23:32
It was quite often. It's pretty crowded.
1:23:34
Anyways, thanks for being gay.
1:23:37
You know what?
1:23:38
Not enough people thank me for being gay. You're welcome.
1:23:42
Thank you for calling in from the freeway or wherever you were.
1:23:47
Thank you McKenzie for your gayest and straightest. Good to hear from you.
1:23:51
We appreciate it.
1:23:52
I do not remember how I fared at the Star Trek or Fleshlight quiz.
1:23:58
I mean, it sounds like a thing I would do to you.
1:24:00
I don't remember that at all.
1:24:02
It does sound like a thing you would do.
1:24:04
Yeah.
1:24:05
Anyway, thank you to the lesbian bars that exist.
1:24:09
The 29 of them, the 34 of them.
1:24:11
If you are welcome there, go to there and give them your money.
1:24:15
Especially, oh, Pride is over. Especially this.
1:24:18
Pride afternoon.
1:24:20
It's like...
1:24:22
Happy Pride. The countdown to Pride has begun.
1:24:25
Yeah.
1:24:27
And thank you to our super Gap Bridgers.
1:24:29
Thank you to Matt, H, Jesse, Adam, Y, Locomotive, Simon, Sirachi,
1:24:31
Kaylee, Adams, Kit, Oliver, Kobe, Gordon, Squaggle,
1:24:34
William, Bryant, John, Crowley, Stephen, Porteo, Stossel,
1:24:36
Jonathan, Montanez, Forrest, Nail, Steve, Douglas, Explosive,
1:24:39
Zania, Michael, Covington, Thomas, B, Dusty, Sands,
1:24:41
A, Coleman, Chris, Gachatorians, and Jerome, York.
1:24:44
Thank you for your support.
1:24:46
Thank you for your money. That's it.
1:24:48
This has been Gayish from the Chris Gachatorian Studios.
1:24:50
I'm Mike Johnson.
1:24:52
I'm Kyle Gist. Until next week, be butch, be fabulous, be you.
1:24:54
See ya.
1:24:56
See ya next week.
1:25:02
Everyone's audio happy?
1:25:04
Yep. I think audio is better.
1:25:06
We were just getting to the edge.
1:25:08
I'm on the edge.
1:25:12
That was it?
1:25:14
You're leaving us on the edge right there.