Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / HEAR IT: female cop says “Sorry, wrong apartment” after gunning down male exec relaxing in his own place

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HEAR IT: female cop says “Sorry, wrong apartment” after gunning down male exec relaxing in his own place · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace, get up, got us, don't
0:15
Speaker 1: run if his carnal or share hard dressing. All right,
0:17
Speaker 1: this is all through the officer. Um, can I get
0:20
Speaker 1: any amos um u? I'm in number um had a
0:26
Speaker 1: duty police? Yes, you both okay? What's the address? I'm
0:31
Speaker 1: at apartment number fourteen seventy eight. I'm in fourteen seventy eight.
0:36
Speaker 1: And what's the address there? Um it's twelve ten off
0:40
Speaker 1: Lamar four ten seventy eight. Yeah, I'm in. All through
0:45
Speaker 1: the officer. I thought it was in my apartment, and
0:47
Speaker 1: I shot a guy thinking that he was thinking it
0:50
Speaker 1: was my apartment. He's awesomeone, Yes, I thought it was
0:54
Speaker 1: my apartment. UM, oh my god, I'm sorry. And where
1:01
Speaker 1: are you at right now? I'm in What do you
1:03
Speaker 1: mean I'm inside the apartment with him. Come on, what's
1:06
Speaker 1: your name? I'm Amber Geiger. I mean see Grace, this
1:09
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us right
1:12
Speaker 1: now in a court of law. This trial is unfolding
1:18
Speaker 1: the trial of a cop. Amber Geiger, age thirty one.
1:23
Speaker 1: And you hear the first thing she says on the
1:25
Speaker 1: nine one one call, I'm an off duty officer. That's
1:27
Speaker 1: the first thing she says. Thirty one year old Geiger
1:32
Speaker 1: says her defense is I'm in the wrong apartment. But
1:37
Speaker 1: whatever her defense may be, she is charged with murder
1:40
Speaker 1: in the shooting death of a young twenty six year
1:43
Speaker 1: old male executive Botham Jean, who was in his own apartment.
1:48
Speaker 1: She'll act sing and bam he gets shot dead. Let's
1:52
Speaker 1: take a listen to more of that nine one one call.
1:54
Speaker 1: I've already got a ton of observations and an all
1:57
Speaker 1: star panel to tell me how wrong I am. Listen.
2:00
Speaker 1: I'm Amber Geiger. I need to get me. I'm I'm okay.
2:06
Speaker 1: We have hoop on the way. I know, but I'm
2:08
Speaker 1: gonna lose my job. I thought it was my apartment, Okay, man,
2:14
Speaker 1: hold on, okay, stay with me. Okay, I am, I am,
2:22
Speaker 1: I need, I need a need to supervid me. Hey bud,
2:27
Speaker 1: hey body. I thought it was my apartment. I understand.
2:39
Speaker 1: We have helped out. Hurry please, they're on their way.
2:50
Speaker 1: I I thought it was my apartment. I thought it
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Speaker 1: was my apartment, just one apart on the first word. Okay,
2:58
Speaker 1: I understand, No, it was my apartment, but my apartment.
3:09
Speaker 1: You were hearing more of that nine on one call.
3:11
Speaker 1: Will play a little bit more in just a moment.
3:13
Speaker 1: But let's introduce our panel this morning, and newcomer joining us.
3:16
Speaker 1: Let the hazing begin. New York defense attorney Julie randallmine
3:21
Speaker 1: no stranger to a courtroom, forensics expert, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville
3:25
Speaker 1: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet that makes
3:29
Speaker 1: me want to read it immediately, Blood Beneath my Feet
3:32
Speaker 1: on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan another newcomer, twenty seven years
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Speaker 1: Atlanta Metro major case detective, SWAT officer, retired lawyer, municipal judge.
3:43
Speaker 1: I mean, what has this man not done? James shell
3:46
Speaker 1: Nutt with me and renowned psychologists joining me out of Hollywood,
3:50
Speaker 1: and boy, she never has like a business out there,
3:53
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall. But first to Dave mac Crime online
3:56
Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, and before I go one more minute,
4:00
Speaker 1: yesterday I got onto Crime online dot Com where you
4:04
Speaker 1: can watch this trial live, and I got sucked into it.
4:09
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be working on my book manuscript. I
4:11
Speaker 1: got nowhere because every time they would say something, I
4:14
Speaker 1: had to hear what they were going to say next.
4:16
Speaker 1: Dave Matt Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. Let's just
4:19
Speaker 1: start at the beginning with the night of the incident. Now,
4:22
Speaker 1: this Amber Geiger I noticed in a nine one one call.
4:25
Speaker 1: The first thing she says is, sorry, Dave, I'm gonna
4:28
Speaker 1: have to go the shrink on this doctor Bethany Marshall.
4:30
Speaker 1: The first thing she says is I'm gonna lose my job.
4:32
Speaker 1: What about the dead guy? Well, it's obviously very self referential, right,
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Speaker 1: She's thinking about herself and she's not thinking about him,
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Speaker 1: which tells me something about her frame of mind when
4:43
Speaker 1: she was heading to his apartment, that she may have
4:45
Speaker 1: been in some kind of a frenzied state having to
4:49
Speaker 1: do with something that was going on internally for her.
4:53
Speaker 1: About Dame Intersex. Wait wait, wait, you mean hersex saying
4:57
Speaker 1: Dave mac didn't come out in court. She was sexting
5:01
Speaker 1: with her partner. Did that mean her her police officer
5:05
Speaker 1: partner or her boyfriend or her girlfriend? Who? Well, never mind,
5:09
Speaker 1: Jackie's her head is spinning off her neck. She's saying
5:12
Speaker 1: it was her police officer that she's sexting with. Martin
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Speaker 1: Rivera has actually been her partner on the police force
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Speaker 1: for a long time, and they were involved in an
5:22
Speaker 1: intimate sexual relationship and in fact, you know she gave
5:25
Speaker 1: Matt Dave, Matt, you know, why do you have to
5:28
Speaker 1: say it like that? Why can't you just say they're dating?
5:30
Speaker 1: Why is everything about sex with you? But you know
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Speaker 1: the texting dirty Matt, Sex is not dirty? Okay, that's
5:41
Speaker 1: I hope you haven't told your children anything different. Are
5:43
Speaker 1: they gonna grow up and have to get lyned to
5:45
Speaker 1: see doctor Bethany Marshall? But I agree with you sexy
5:49
Speaker 1: first of all, doctor Bethany Marshall. Having a relationship a
5:54
Speaker 1: romantic take a cue from this, Dave mac A romantic
5:57
Speaker 1: relationship with a co worker is a bad idea. It's
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Speaker 1: a bad idea, very bad because it leaves out of
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Speaker 1: it your role as a police officer, the need to
6:08
Speaker 1: be alert, the need to be on guard. And this
6:12
Speaker 1: could be a cue yet another clue as to her
6:14
Speaker 1: state of mind when she went to the wrong apartment.
6:17
Speaker 1: That this is not a woman who was very clear
6:20
Speaker 1: or clean in her relationships and her motivations. Her relationship
6:24
Speaker 1: are a little messy, right, and so what happened in
6:28
Speaker 1: her feelings towards Baltham If she had a neighbor complaint
6:32
Speaker 1: or she was upset with him about something. That This
6:35
Speaker 1: was not a woman who was clear and direct in
6:37
Speaker 1: her roles and motivations. Jelie Ndelman, somewhat of a newcomer today,
6:41
Speaker 1: has joined us once before Jelie Randelman as doctor Bethany
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Speaker 1: Marshall was saying, keep your mind clear, especially as a cop,
6:49
Speaker 1: and not be sexting. That that was the problem. You know,
6:54
Speaker 1: that reminds me of Jelie. I'm sure you remember the
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Speaker 1: hot card baby keeper. Ye. Justin Ross Harris, you read
7:00
Speaker 1: my mind. That's scaring me. I don't like that when
7:02
Speaker 1: the defense attorney can read what I'm thinking. But you're
7:05
Speaker 1: absolutely right. He was sexting I think six or eight.
7:08
Speaker 1: In fact, I was just writing about him from my book.
7:11
Speaker 1: I was talking about PS Don't Be a Victim comes
7:13
Speaker 1: out in February. But he was sexting I think six
7:17
Speaker 1: to eight women at the same time. Well, of course,
7:20
Speaker 1: married to a beautiful young lady. But that aside sexting
7:25
Speaker 1: while you're walking or getting out of your car or working.
7:29
Speaker 1: It gets you nowhere, Julie, and correct me if I'm wrong.
7:32
Speaker 1: But when I attended law school and throughout my trial career.
7:37
Speaker 1: Mistake of fact is not a defense. For instance, if
7:41
Speaker 1: I crossed the state line with a truckload of cocaine
7:44
Speaker 1: and when they stopped me, I say, oh, I thought
7:46
Speaker 1: it was turnip roots, Mistake of fact is not a
7:49
Speaker 1: defense under the law. If for a defense is I
7:52
Speaker 1: thought I was in my apartment, that's not gonna work.
7:55
Speaker 1: But I think it is a defense in that state.
7:57
Speaker 1: I think there is an exception. But keep it. Mind
8:00
Speaker 1: one thing. So if I'm not telling you I sexed,
8:03
Speaker 1: but if I was sexing, I wouldn't have a gun
8:05
Speaker 1: on me, so I wouldn't have the risk. I think
8:07
Speaker 1: you do. I think you do. I think you do,
8:10
Speaker 1: or you would not have even said that. But okay,
8:12
Speaker 1: not judging, not judging at all. But what did you say, Jackie?
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Speaker 1: And I got so carried away by the fact that
8:18
Speaker 1: you just confessed it sexting, But go ahead, what were
8:21
Speaker 1: you saying? The differences is I'm not carrying a gun
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Speaker 1: with me, so she has a loaded weapon when she's
8:26
Speaker 1: not paying attention to where she's going. And so if
8:30
Speaker 1: I come to my door and there's a burglar, or
8:31
Speaker 1: I think there's a burglar, I'm going to run away.
8:34
Speaker 1: I'm not going to have a gun and start shooting
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Speaker 1: someone and still be distracted by the fact that I'm
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Speaker 1: sexting with my boyfriend. There's a difference. You just made
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Speaker 1: me think of something, Julie Rendelman. Everybody, I'm giving Julie
8:44
Speaker 1: Rendelman a hard time, but she but she is a
8:50
Speaker 1: veteran trial lawyer. Okay, she she knows what she's talking about.
8:55
Speaker 1: To James shell Nutt, twenty seven years with Atlanta Metro
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Speaker 1: Major Case Detectives Squat officer. It goes on and on
9:01
Speaker 1: and on. James, thank you for being with us. What
9:04
Speaker 1: Julie said just brought something to mind. I'm want to
9:08
Speaker 1: follow up with you, Joe Scott on this. But she
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Speaker 1: sees she realizes her door I guess is unlocked or
9:15
Speaker 1: a jar. Something is different. I guess she didn't notice
9:18
Speaker 1: she was standing on a bright red doormat that Jane
9:23
Speaker 1: bought to make his apartment entrance look different from everybody else's.
9:27
Speaker 1: She did not have that. The number is displayed near
9:30
Speaker 1: the door. But she had to stop James shell Nutt
9:34
Speaker 1: and pull her gun. Now, wouldn't that be enough time
9:38
Speaker 1: right there to notice she was not in her apartment.
9:40
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know about that. You know, supposedly
9:42
Speaker 1: this was at night. It was not done in the daylight.
9:45
Speaker 1: She is tired coming home from work. You know, officers
9:48
Speaker 1: also experienced a lot of times what is called tactically
9:50
Speaker 1: his tunnel vision. You walk into an unexpected situation, you
9:54
Speaker 1: perceived an immediate serious threat. She believed, truly that she
9:58
Speaker 1: was going into her own apartment. She logically believed that
10:01
Speaker 1: someone was in there and lawfully burglarizing it. She probably
10:04
Speaker 1: locked in a tunnel vision and excluded other factors. That's
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Speaker 1: the common danger that occurs to police officers they're in
10:09
Speaker 1: a tactical situation like that. It sounds like a lot
10:13
Speaker 1: of cop talk. You know how hard it was for
10:16
Speaker 1: me to get police officers to talk like regular people.
10:19
Speaker 1: Had the same problem with medical examiner's crime lab people.
10:22
Speaker 1: I mean, you go into warp four, I assume you're
10:24
Speaker 1: a Star Trek fan and nobody knows what you're talking about.
10:27
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to break that down, but first take
10:30
Speaker 1: a listen to k x as anchor Meredith Land. Prosecutors
10:35
Speaker 1: focused on text messages exchanged between Geiger and Rivera, including
10:39
Speaker 1: some that happened while Geiger was on the phone with
10:41
Speaker 1: nine one one the night of the shooting. Geiger and
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Speaker 1: Rivera they deleted them they were recovered, but when asked
10:47
Speaker 1: on the stand why Rivera deleted them, he said that
10:49
Speaker 1: he did so because he didn't want to relive what
10:52
Speaker 1: happened that night. But some civil rights attorneys are calling
10:56
Speaker 1: for him to be investigated. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
11:19
Speaker 1: As she's leaving the substation at nine thirty pm, she
11:23
Speaker 1: sends a message, a text message actually it's a Snapchat
11:27
Speaker 1: message with a text associated with it to her partner,
11:30
Speaker 1: Martin Rivera, and she says, want to touch So I
11:34
Speaker 1: think it's important for me to take a moment and
11:37
Speaker 1: let you know something else. Amber Geiger had been with
11:42
Speaker 1: CRT about a year and a half. Most of that
11:44
Speaker 1: time she worked with Martin Rivera. Their relationship was more
11:48
Speaker 1: than just professional. For about the last year they had
11:52
Speaker 1: been intimate, and that relationship kind of ebbed and flow.
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Speaker 1: Coming upon more recently into September, it looks like that
12:00
Speaker 1: intimate part of their relationship was kind of ramping back up.
12:04
Speaker 1: But we know from the text messages. Starting at about
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Speaker 1: five fifty five pm, Martina Doherty left. Remember I told
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Speaker 1: you had an event to go to. Starting about five pm,
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Speaker 1: they begin a text exchange. She's sitting on the prisoner
12:17
Speaker 1: at headquarters. He's wherever it is that he is, and
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Speaker 1: a text exchange begins. This is just a sample. I
12:27
Speaker 1: need you to know this. They were talking multiple times
12:30
Speaker 1: throughout the evening, by text, by snapchat, and by MMS messages.
12:35
Speaker 1: You are hearing opening statements. Guys, it's happening right now
12:39
Speaker 1: in a court of law. This female cop on trial
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Speaker 1: for the shooting death of a guy, a young executive,
12:47
Speaker 1: twenty six year old Botham Jane thank you with accounting firm.
12:53
Speaker 1: And he's in his apartment just chilling, and all of
12:56
Speaker 1: a sudden he gets shot dead. Joining me in all
13:00
Speaker 1: our panel Julie Rendelman, Joe Scott Morgan, James shell Nutt,
13:03
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, and Dave Matt Crime online dot Com
13:06
Speaker 1: investigative reporter. And you can watch the trial along with
13:09
Speaker 1: us at crime online dot Com. We put a big
13:11
Speaker 1: banner across the top. Click here to watch the trial live.
13:15
Speaker 1: You know, um, Dave Mack, what else were they saying
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Speaker 1: on their texts? It was very very direct, actually, Nancy
13:23
Speaker 1: and they were trying to set up a meet at
13:27
Speaker 1: sex opportunity to hook up. They both in these text
13:31
Speaker 1: messages said they were horny. That was a term. Oh
13:34
Speaker 1: wait a minute, well what They both actually texted back
13:38
Speaker 1: and forth saying, I am horney, Okay, Dave Matt. I
13:42
Speaker 1: don't know that I needed you to be that blunt,
13:44
Speaker 1: but the reality is that's what the jury is hearing.
13:47
Speaker 1: And you know, to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, jacksonvill
13:51
Speaker 1: State University, You've been in front of a lot of juries,
13:53
Speaker 1: and I remember, I remember distinctly the first time I
13:57
Speaker 1: had a stand in front of a jury and I
13:59
Speaker 1: was I had to tell the jury what a defendant
14:02
Speaker 1: said in a statement. It had every curse word, every
14:08
Speaker 1: derogatory slur you could think of, every single word, the
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Speaker 1: P word, the C word, the N word, the F word,
14:15
Speaker 1: using the lord's name in vain. I set them all
14:18
Speaker 1: except for the N word. I can bring myself to
14:21
Speaker 1: spit that out. But long story short, what was bad
14:25
Speaker 1: about it was the next time I had to stand
14:27
Speaker 1: in front of the jury, just tripped off my tongue, like,
14:29
Speaker 1: no problem in this case. The jury is going to
14:33
Speaker 1: hear a lot that they're not ready for. But when
14:37
Speaker 1: they see the autopsy report and they see that should
14:41
Speaker 1: be a sobering experience and all the talk of being
14:46
Speaker 1: horny aside. That's what this case is about. Joe Scott Morgan.
14:50
Speaker 1: What were the injuries to Botham Jean Well. He sustained
14:54
Speaker 1: a gunshot wounds to his body. And one of the
14:57
Speaker 1: things that is significant here is determining, uh, first off,
15:03
Speaker 1: the range of fire, how far away he was from
15:06
Speaker 1: the end of the muzzle when she actually fired into
15:10
Speaker 1: his body, and also the angle at which she fired.
15:14
Speaker 1: And I think this has already come into question, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: Was he posturing in a position like in an attack
15:20
Speaker 1: position where he's upright, he's got his hands maybe cast forward.
15:24
Speaker 1: Is he ducking like looking for cover? Is she firing
15:27
Speaker 1: down from a from a higher angle that's striking him?
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Speaker 1: And this is going to because listen, the only the
15:36
Speaker 1: only person that we have that can bear witness to
15:39
Speaker 1: this is her, and of course we don't know she's
15:42
Speaker 1: actually going to testify, probably not and her statement, uh,
15:46
Speaker 1: did she fired down into his body or was he
15:49
Speaker 1: over her when she fired? And that's going to be
15:51
Speaker 1: the question that both the prosecution and the defense are
15:54
Speaker 1: going to have to dig into relative to this case. Yes,
15:57
Speaker 1: the trajectory path of that bullet. To Julie Randelman, veteran
16:02
Speaker 1: New York defense lawyer, I hear what Joe Scott is saying,
16:06
Speaker 1: and I believe that if she were over him firing,
16:10
Speaker 1: depending on the trajectory path of the bullet, it will
16:12
Speaker 1: exacerbate the facts. But in my mind, the issue is
16:17
Speaker 1: the defense of mistake of fact. You just can't argue, Oh,
16:25
Speaker 1: I thought so and so was an intruder in my apartment,
16:29
Speaker 1: so I shot him dead. I thought I was in
16:31
Speaker 1: my mistake a fact is never a defense under the law. Now,
16:37
Speaker 1: it may be that the jury buys into it and
16:41
Speaker 1: gives her a lesser charge, but there's it's not like accident,
16:46
Speaker 1: where an accident is a complete defense. Yeah, self defense,
16:50
Speaker 1: if it can be proven, is a defense. Mistake of fact,
16:52
Speaker 1: it's not a defense. I think it is, though in
16:54
Speaker 1: that state. I think there is an exception because there's
16:58
Speaker 1: no question. I think anyone looking at this case accepts
17:01
Speaker 1: the fact that she intended to shoot and kill this individual.
17:04
Speaker 1: The issue for the jury, at least in my mind,
17:09
Speaker 1: is whether or not she believes it was her apartment
17:12
Speaker 1: or not, and whether or not she acted reasonably throughout
17:15
Speaker 1: this entire period of time. And I think all the
17:19
Speaker 1: factors we talk about about her sex, thing, about her
17:21
Speaker 1: carrying a loaded weapon, about her not paying attention, about
17:24
Speaker 1: the red you know, the front red floormat, all those
17:28
Speaker 1: things that are going to be something the jury takes
17:30
Speaker 1: into consideration and they're deciding whether is this a murder,
17:33
Speaker 1: is this a man thought, or is this reckless? But
17:35
Speaker 1: I think mistake of fact is going to be a
17:37
Speaker 1: huge factor in determining kind of what the end result is.
17:40
Speaker 1: I think also it will depend on whether the mistake
17:45
Speaker 1: was reasonable. And in my mind, I mean, James shell Nutt,
17:50
Speaker 1: you've been a SWAT officer and major case detective in
17:53
Speaker 1: the business for twenty seven years, plus law school at Carmerland,
17:57
Speaker 1: plus a municipal judge. The reality is, you know the
18:01
Speaker 1: training that cops have to go through. I mean, to
18:04
Speaker 1: be an assistant DA in Inner City Atlanta, I had
18:07
Speaker 1: to train about every six months at the firing range.
18:10
Speaker 1: And I hate guns. I'm a gun violence victim. I
18:13
Speaker 1: don't like guns. I don't like holding them. Long story short,
18:18
Speaker 1: She's got training in ballistics at the firing range. She's
18:22
Speaker 1: trained to handle a weapon and then pulling it on
18:26
Speaker 1: an unarmed demand. How could she miss that red doormat?
18:31
Speaker 1: Nobody else had one. She didn't have one, so how
18:35
Speaker 1: could she step over that? I mean, she's supposed to
18:37
Speaker 1: be trained observer for Pete's sake. Well, I think she
18:40
Speaker 1: missed it because she was too worried about having a
18:43
Speaker 1: hook up after work. That's all. I think she missed it.
19:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Do you hear them? Do
19:09
Speaker 1: you hear them? No? No? I I t h Are
19:31
Speaker 1: you here or here? Okay, go ahead, I'm talking to you. No,
19:35
Speaker 1: it's me. It's I'm all duty. I'm all duty. I
19:39
Speaker 1: thought they were in my apartment. I thought this was
19:41
Speaker 1: my sport. You're hearing more of that nine one one
19:43
Speaker 1: call that's been played in court. You can watch it
19:45
Speaker 1: yourself live Hey, Crime online dot com. I've been watching
19:48
Speaker 1: it throughout the day with me an all star panel.
19:51
Speaker 1: I want to go to doctor Bethany Marshall. You know
19:55
Speaker 1: the jury did not like it. As Julie Rendelman pointed out,
19:59
Speaker 1: it was just Ross Harris who left his child, baby Cooper,
20:02
Speaker 1: in the car while he was sexting about six to
20:06
Speaker 1: eight women, some of them miners, by the way, and
20:09
Speaker 1: left his baby in the car. Now we've got another death.
20:14
Speaker 1: What do you make of it? I just don't understand it.
20:17
Speaker 1: Get in the door, she had to step over that
20:19
Speaker 1: red doormat. Well, the issue of the sexting is so
20:23
Speaker 1: important to me because it tells me that she is
20:26
Speaker 1: fusing and confusing her job, carrying a gun, being in
20:31
Speaker 1: an intense emotional situation, her sexuality, her femininity, and you
20:37
Speaker 1: put all that together, and this is a narcissisting individual
20:40
Speaker 1: who's not taking her job very seriously. It's all about
20:43
Speaker 1: her and getting late pardon my French. It's about her
20:47
Speaker 1: sexual excitement throughout the day. And wasn't she also looking
20:50
Speaker 1: at Pinterest reading a Pinterest article. So it's her apartment,
20:54
Speaker 1: it's her sexuality, and you put that behavioral evidence together,
20:58
Speaker 1: and what I want if this isn't the sort of
21:01
Speaker 1: individual where if she has a fight or a spat
21:05
Speaker 1: or a beef with a neighbor, if she's so preoccupied
21:08
Speaker 1: with her own rights and getting her own way, that
21:10
Speaker 1: that same unboundaried quality leads her to go to his
21:15
Speaker 1: apartment to confront him because hadn't she written a complaint
21:19
Speaker 1: about him a week earlier, saying that he had been
21:21
Speaker 1: too noisy, and here she'd only been at the apartment
21:23
Speaker 1: for a month. Nancy, I'm going to tell you the
21:26
Speaker 1: biggest fights that I see. My husband's a judge and
21:29
Speaker 1: he sees spats and courts all over all the time
21:32
Speaker 1: between neighbors. Neighbors become extraordinarily enraged at each other over
21:38
Speaker 1: those most minor of things. And it could be that
21:41
Speaker 1: she was so upset at the noise that she made
21:43
Speaker 1: a bee line for his apartment to punish him. Yeah,
21:46
Speaker 1: you know what. Following up on that, Doctor Bethany, familiarity
21:49
Speaker 1: breeds contempt, and neighbors are very contemptious against each other.
21:56
Speaker 1: Dave mac Crime online dot Com in reporter, can you
22:00
Speaker 1: tell me about a previous noise complaints? Well, actually, Nancy,
22:04
Speaker 1: according to the Jean family attorney your buddy Benjamin Crump
22:09
Speaker 1: and Merrick in Dallas, they actually said there were some
22:13
Speaker 1: complaints about noise coming from Botham's apartment, but they never
22:18
Speaker 1: specifically claimed that it was actually Amber Geiger. She lived
22:22
Speaker 1: directly below him, but she'd only been there for a
22:24
Speaker 1: couple of months. Again, there were complaints made but according
22:28
Speaker 1: to the family attorney, it wasn't Geiger that made those complaints. Well,
22:31
Speaker 1: that's something we're gonna have to get to the bottom of.
22:32
Speaker 1: And if Bethany is right, that is significant, a significant
22:36
Speaker 1: in fact, guys, I'm looking right now at a photo
22:39
Speaker 1: that we have on crime Online of the prosecutor, Jason Hermus,
22:44
Speaker 1: holding up Botham Jean's red doormat. And you may wonder
22:48
Speaker 1: why I keep talking about that, James Shellnutt twenty seven
22:52
Speaker 1: years on Atlanta Metro Major Case Division. Why is that
22:55
Speaker 1: so significant? What significant? Because it was a bright line
22:59
Speaker 1: wife for her to no, this should have been a
23:01
Speaker 1: final warning flag you're not in the right place. Something
23:04
Speaker 1: is different. Yeah, I mean a red doormat. I think
23:07
Speaker 1: I would have noticed that. Guys. Let's take a listen
23:10
Speaker 1: to what is going on in the courtroom. Whatever his arm,
23:13
Speaker 1: her mind, after that conversation has consumed her attention entirely,
23:18
Speaker 1: and she's missing obvious things. She then goes down the
23:21
Speaker 1: rest of the hallway, because then she turns left and
23:24
Speaker 1: she's walking up on Bo's apartment fourteen seventy. And this
23:28
Speaker 1: is the one I really want you all to hear.
23:31
Speaker 1: Amber Geiger has no floor mat in front of her door.
23:35
Speaker 1: Amber Geiger has nothing but the concrete floor. Gray concrete
23:41
Speaker 1: concrete floor that looks like the rest of the floor.
23:45
Speaker 1: Both of Jean wanted his apartment to be very noticeable,
23:49
Speaker 1: and he took steps to make sure that happened in
23:52
Speaker 1: front of botha's apartments. Is this extremely obvious, bright red
24:01
Speaker 1: floormat right in front of his door? I want to reiterate,
24:08
Speaker 1: Amber driver had no floormat. She walked right up and
24:15
Speaker 1: stepped on top of this as she entered and placed
24:20
Speaker 1: her key fob into the dead boat lock of both
24:24
Speaker 1: both of gen com I mean Jess goot Morgan, forensics
24:27
Speaker 1: expert author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Jesscott
24:31
Speaker 1: not only that, what about evidence the door the front
24:36
Speaker 1: door was a jar. Didn't the doors have magnetic locks? Yeah?
24:42
Speaker 1: They did, And you know, in my lifetime, I've never
24:45
Speaker 1: lived in any place that fancy. But apparently you can
24:47
Speaker 1: wave a key fob over the thing and it disengages.
24:50
Speaker 1: And from what reports are coming in, you know, his
24:55
Speaker 1: the facing on the thing was not installed correctly, so
24:59
Speaker 1: his or would be slightly a jar many times, as
25:02
Speaker 1: if it wouldn't click into place. And so when she
25:05
Speaker 1: bumped this thing with her with her fob, that it
25:09
Speaker 1: kind of nudged the door open well automatically. As a
25:12
Speaker 1: police officer, I can only imagine her senses are heightened automatically,
25:17
Speaker 1: you know, because her perception, not the reality, but her
25:20
Speaker 1: perception was at that time, was that this is her
25:23
Speaker 1: door she's walking in. She becomes tunnel focused, as judge
25:28
Speaker 1: just mentioned just a moment ago, and she takes her
25:31
Speaker 1: weapon out, and so you've got you've got this kind
25:34
Speaker 1: of collision that's that's on course. And you know, let
25:38
Speaker 1: me let me tell you one other thing. Um, you know,
25:40
Speaker 1: we we've talked about how maybe there was a disturbance
25:43
Speaker 1: in the past, and uh, you know, she goes down
25:45
Speaker 1: to confront this guy. I gotta tell you, I take
25:48
Speaker 1: I take exception to this idea that this case is
25:51
Speaker 1: being painted as if she went down or went to
25:55
Speaker 1: this gentleman's apartment and essentially executed him. That's that's not
25:59
Speaker 1: what's happening here. One thing that has not been brought
26:02
Speaker 1: out is that she is on a high speed team
26:05
Speaker 1: with Dallas Police Department, where she's going out, she's interdicting
26:08
Speaker 1: street crimes on a regular basis, she's already been working
26:11
Speaker 1: Nancy for thirteen hours. I spent a lot of time
26:14
Speaker 1: on the street over the course of my career with
26:17
Speaker 1: a Corner in New Orleans, with the Emmy in Atlanta,
26:20
Speaker 1: as an investigator. I've worked these shifts. And let me
26:23
Speaker 1: tell you something. You get off work and you come
26:26
Speaker 1: off of a thirteen hour watch, and your brain is
26:29
Speaker 1: mush at that time. The only thing you can think
26:30
Speaker 1: about is trying to get to bed. And hey, she's
26:33
Speaker 1: trying to get to bed with her lover. Yeah, God
26:35
Speaker 1: bless her. Yeah, well we because I'm a horny can
26:38
Speaker 1: we touch? Does not suggest to me that she is
26:45
Speaker 1: a human being. She's got needs just like everybody else does.
26:49
Speaker 1: She's not on duty at this point in time. Maybe
26:52
Speaker 1: she is texted him, so what. I don't care if
26:54
Speaker 1: she's texting him. She's got to live her life. She
26:56
Speaker 1: is a human being, she has needs just like everybody else.
27:00
Speaker 1: It's a comedy of errors at this point in time,
27:02
Speaker 1: and it's horrible that it wound up this way. But
27:05
Speaker 1: you know, you can't you can't extract the fact that
27:07
Speaker 1: she has been working. She's distracted. Hey, maybe life is
27:11
Speaker 1: so bad on the street she needs to be comforted,
27:13
Speaker 1: and by God, there's a lot of cops out there
27:15
Speaker 1: that need comforting. She's looking to be in the arms
27:17
Speaker 1: of her lover at that point in time. You three
27:19
Speaker 1: Joe Scott because that was a hell of a sermon.
27:21
Speaker 1: But I got news for you. You can go ahead
27:22
Speaker 1: and cut his mic right now in case he chums
27:24
Speaker 1: back up. I'm tired is not a defense. Botham Jean
27:30
Speaker 1: was sitting on his sofa eating ice cream when he
27:34
Speaker 1: was shot dead. That's what he was doing before she
27:37
Speaker 1: came into his apartment. I'm tired. It's not a defense. FYI.
27:44
Speaker 1: A lot of us work long hours. Yesterday I logged
27:49
Speaker 1: fifteen hours straight and that it's not an excuse for
27:54
Speaker 1: murder crime stories with Nancy Grace. The Jean family left
28:14
Speaker 1: the courtroom arm in arm after facing both of Jehan's
28:17
Speaker 1: killer for the first time. This is Botham Samjan. In
28:22
Speaker 1: opening arguments, prosecutors said the twenty six year old was
28:25
Speaker 1: watching TV eating vanilla ice cream in his apartment when
28:29
Speaker 1: former Dallas officer Amber Geiger walked in and shot him
28:32
Speaker 1: in the chest. No opportunity for him, Baba rapper, double tap,
28:39
Speaker 1: prosecutors maintained Geiger was so consumed with a phone conversation
28:43
Speaker 1: she just had with Martin Rivera, her police partner turned
28:46
Speaker 1: love interest, that she didn't realize she entered the wrong apartment,
28:50
Speaker 1: despite Jean having a red doormat. On the stand, Rivera
28:53
Speaker 1: testified the two exchanged explicit messages the day of the
28:56
Speaker 1: shooting while Geiger worked a thirteen and a half hour shifting,
29:01
Speaker 1: Gila having any kind of undue stressing the line no.
29:06
Speaker 1: The defense maintains Geiger was fatigued because she worked forty
29:10
Speaker 1: hours in four days. What you will see and hear
29:14
Speaker 1: and experience is the perfect store of innocent circumstances. Also
29:22
Speaker 1: on the stand, John's sister, Elissa Findley, who told jurors
29:25
Speaker 1: she hasn't accepted her brother was gone and still calls
29:28
Speaker 1: his phone hoping he answers A miss him every single day.
29:34
Speaker 1: Being in Dallas is hard that he's not here. You
29:38
Speaker 1: are hearing k X AS anchor Meredith land and testimony
29:43
Speaker 1: from the courtroom, which you can watch live at Crime
29:45
Speaker 1: online dot Com. As much as I was giving him
29:48
Speaker 1: a hard time, I do agree with Joseph Scott Morgan
29:51
Speaker 1: on one issue. I do not believe that Amber Geiger
29:55
Speaker 1: went to this apartment with the intent of executing someone.
30:00
Speaker 1: I don't think that's what happened if you look at
30:03
Speaker 1: the evidence in the light most favorable to the defendant.
30:06
Speaker 1: To me, Doctor Bethany Marshall, she was sexting, she had
30:10
Speaker 1: had a long night. She went to this apartment, she
30:13
Speaker 1: opened the door and opened fire. The fact that she
30:17
Speaker 1: thought was she was in her apartment is in my mind,
30:20
Speaker 1: not going to be a defense. But I do agree
30:23
Speaker 1: with Joe Scott Morgan that this was not a planned execution,
30:28
Speaker 1: that she was going to use the defense that she
30:31
Speaker 1: got the wrong apartment. I don't think it was planned
30:33
Speaker 1: out that way, but premeditation can be formed in the
30:38
Speaker 1: twinkling of an eye from the time it takes you
30:40
Speaker 1: to raise the gun and pull the trigger. So still
30:44
Speaker 1: a long shift, I'm tired is not a defense, but
30:48
Speaker 1: I don't think it was a long thought out plan.
30:51
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, Well, I'm glad you went to me on
30:53
Speaker 1: this because I've devoted a lot of thought to this
30:55
Speaker 1: case and it's analogous to me with situations I have
30:59
Speaker 1: in my private cline he practice in Beverly Hills. I
31:01
Speaker 1: treat a lot of pro athletes and what happens, especially
31:04
Speaker 1: with the football players. They go out on the field,
31:07
Speaker 1: they get a lot of injuries. They start to substance abuse.
31:10
Speaker 1: They have concussive injuries, like traumatic brain injuries. That makes
31:14
Speaker 1: them impulsive, even more aggressive. They think that they're God
31:18
Speaker 1: because they get their way. Everywhere they go out, they
31:21
Speaker 1: sort of throw their weight around. They come home, they
31:23
Speaker 1: get in a minor altercation with the wife, and all
31:26
Speaker 1: of a sudden they beat the wife up. And it's
31:28
Speaker 1: not as simple, ever that they went home wanting to
31:32
Speaker 1: abuse the wife. It's a confluence of factors, and I
31:36
Speaker 1: wish I knew more about the mindset of the policewoman.
31:40
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan spoke beautifully to it, But there are factors
31:44
Speaker 1: for which we cannot assess. We do not know. Was
31:47
Speaker 1: she impulsive? Was she self centered? Was she paranoid? Did
31:51
Speaker 1: she have a trauma history? Was she always afraid of
31:54
Speaker 1: losing her life? Did she use sexuality to keep herself
31:57
Speaker 1: in a state of heightened excitement in order to avoid
32:00
Speaker 1: frightening feelings that she had at work? So certainly, no,
32:03
Speaker 1: it's not as simple as she went to his apartment
32:05
Speaker 1: to execute him. In a sense, it was a perfect storm.
32:09
Speaker 1: We just don't know what elements at this point comprised
32:12
Speaker 1: the storm. Now, Joseph Scott Morgan has pointed out accurately
32:15
Speaker 1: that she had a very long shift and was tired.
32:18
Speaker 1: He also says she just wanted to go home and
32:20
Speaker 1: got a sleep. But listen to this. I think it's
32:22
Speaker 1: very important for you folks to know that after a
32:25
Speaker 1: thirteen and a half hour shift, Amber Diver did not
32:28
Speaker 1: have plans just to go home and crash or take
32:31
Speaker 1: it easy. There were plans of that, particularly evement plans
32:34
Speaker 1: that were hatched about five fifty five between her and marketing.
32:37
Speaker 1: There he writes to her, when can I come over?
32:40
Speaker 1: She replies, you can come over. After this, referring to
32:44
Speaker 1: an image that had come across earlier, she indicates him
32:48
Speaker 1: super horny today too. He replies to me too. Then
32:52
Speaker 1: there were a bunch of other conversations going on throughout
32:54
Speaker 1: the night. He was checking in with her every hour
32:57
Speaker 1: and a half, and then she lets him know at
33:00
Speaker 1: twenty nine oh six she said them a text letting
33:02
Speaker 1: him know that she's barely walking out of the police station,
33:05
Speaker 1: followed by this indication of her want to touch all
33:09
Speaker 1: right by implication. Clearly, we believe that there was some event,
33:15
Speaker 1: some date, whatever you want to call it, planned for
33:18
Speaker 1: after this call was over. Okay, Joe Scott Morgan, go
33:22
Speaker 1: on preach to me. No, it just seems mighty thin.
33:25
Speaker 1: What she's supposed to go home and be like RoboCop
33:27
Speaker 1: and just like plug into her battery, you know, and
33:30
Speaker 1: so she can be recharged for the use of the
33:33
Speaker 1: city the next day. Is that what happens She's no
33:35
Speaker 1: longer a human being that you know, This is mighty thin.
33:38
Speaker 1: This is mighty thin for the prosecution. I gotta tell you,
33:41
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, you know what the reality is. Your theory
33:45
Speaker 1: that you want to go home and crash is incorrect.
33:48
Speaker 1: So you know what, you need to accept that and
33:51
Speaker 1: quit beating the dead horse, and you can quit projecting
33:55
Speaker 1: about how tired you were when you were a cop,
33:57
Speaker 1: because there are several people on the panel right now
34:00
Speaker 1: that have been in law enforcement, me for one and
34:02
Speaker 1: Shelton up for two. And we worked really long hours,
34:05
Speaker 1: going to bed at twelve, getting up at three to
34:07
Speaker 1: go roused up witnesses. We've been there and we didn't
34:11
Speaker 1: shoot anybody dead. And as a matter of fact, she
34:14
Speaker 1: missed several during her sexting and her prep for a
34:19
Speaker 1: night of sex with her partner. She missed many many
34:23
Speaker 1: signs this was not her apartment, such as the fourth
34:27
Speaker 1: floor of the garage where she parked after her shift
34:30
Speaker 1: was open air, unlike her parking area which was on
34:34
Speaker 1: the third floor. She didn't notice a skylight, a neighbor's
34:39
Speaker 1: decorative planter, Jean's red doormat, the hallways were different. Once
34:47
Speaker 1: she opened the door to her neighbor's apartment, she didn't
34:51
Speaker 1: notice other differences like a missing table, a counter covered
34:56
Speaker 1: in clutter, a distinct aroma that would not have been
35:01
Speaker 1: in her apartment. Just so many issues. So being on
35:07
Speaker 1: autopilot James Shellnutt, twenty seven years on a force. Being
35:13
Speaker 1: on autopilot it is not an excuse. That's just like
35:16
Speaker 1: and look, I'm on the cop side in almost every situation.
35:20
Speaker 1: But when a copet on the street says, oh, I
35:22
Speaker 1: shot him Jack because I thought he had a gun
35:24
Speaker 1: and he doesn't have a gun. That's not gonna fly.
35:27
Speaker 1: That is not going to work, and it shouldn't. So
35:30
Speaker 1: her saying I thought this is my apartment. I don't
35:33
Speaker 1: care how long she had been working that's not a defense, James, No,
35:36
Speaker 1: I agree. As a police officer, you work long shifts
35:39
Speaker 1: all the time. It's not uncommon work a double shift,
35:41
Speaker 1: which is actually longer than what she had been working
35:43
Speaker 1: on double shi sixteen hours. This is something that happens
35:46
Speaker 1: all the time. You know, if I'm a detective taken
35:49
Speaker 1: a look at this. The one factor that I can't
35:51
Speaker 1: get over after I look at all the evidence in
35:53
Speaker 1: this case is that she's standing on another man's red
35:57
Speaker 1: doormat while she's sexted four hook up instead of paying
36:01
Speaker 1: attention to where she's at. That's a problem. Well, we'll
36:03
Speaker 1: see if a jury agrees. The trial happening right now,
36:06
Speaker 1: and when I hear Botham Jane's mom break down crying,
36:10
Speaker 1: I can hardly stand it because you all know by
36:13
Speaker 1: now this word happened to my twins. Oh hell would
36:17
Speaker 1: have no fury like mommy. Nancy Grace crime Story signing off,
36:22
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,