Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #195 Yes, It's a Chore

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#195 Yes, It's a Chore · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
0:07
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
0:10
Speaker 2: Now, make sure that the tasks are developmentally appropriate. There's
0:13
Speaker 2: no point asking the six year old lumpack the dishwasher
0:16
Speaker 2: if she can't reach into the cupboard where the cups go,
0:19
Speaker 2: because it's up too high and she's going to have
0:21
Speaker 2: to climb on the bench and there's a chance that
0:22
Speaker 2: she's going to fall and break everything.
0:24
Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
0:27
Speaker 1: and dad.
0:28
Speaker 2: Today. This is doctor Justin Colson, the author of six
0:30
Speaker 2: books about how to raise happy families. I'm here with Kylie,
0:33
Speaker 2: my wife and co host, podcast partner and mum to
0:35
Speaker 2: our six daughters. I got given a bit of grief
0:39
Speaker 2: after something that happened on the podcast last Friday. Without
0:42
Speaker 2: our older better tomorrow. I thought I was being a
0:44
Speaker 2: great dad, not expecting that.
0:46
Speaker 3: Well, we did get some feedback the guns n' roses
0:49
Speaker 3: might not have been the best choice for motivating the kids.
0:52
Speaker 2: So if you missed it, here's what happened. I got
0:54
Speaker 2: cranky and I said, faed ink him. You know your
0:56
Speaker 2: kids are ungrateful, and I'm working my backside off and
0:58
Speaker 2: we've got bills and I'm stressed out brain and you
1:00
Speaker 2: can't even watch some dishes. And we worked so hard
1:02
Speaker 2: for you, and I really sort of laid the guilt on,
1:04
Speaker 2: and then I felt bad because they all came, you know,
1:07
Speaker 2: sullen faced into the kitchen and picked up details and
1:09
Speaker 2: started to clean up, and I said, oh, look, music
1:11
Speaker 2: always makes our family happier. Tonight, we're going to do
1:13
Speaker 2: some music appreciation, which which music appreciation really means I'm
1:18
Speaker 2: going to play music that I like and you kids
1:20
Speaker 2: going to appreciate it. And so I put on some
1:23
Speaker 2: guns and Roses, yes you did, which you didn't appreciate.
1:27
Speaker 2: So I cranked up Paradise City, you know, take me
1:31
Speaker 2: down to the parents, and I was just thinking, this
1:33
Speaker 2: is great. And then November Rain came on and I
1:35
Speaker 2: was rocking out to November Rain and it really lifted
1:37
Speaker 2: my mood.
1:38
Speaker 3: Well it did, and it actually sped the kids dishwashing
1:41
Speaker 3: up because they wanted to get out of there as
1:43
Speaker 3: fast as they could.
1:44
Speaker 2: It didn't lift anybody else's everyone else was cranky as anything.
1:47
Speaker 2: See now I don't think that that's that big of
1:49
Speaker 2: a deal, but you know, I mean when you listen
1:53
Speaker 2: to this, doesn't it make you feel like doing the dishes?
1:55
Speaker 2: I mean, really, you know where this is going, so
2:01
Speaker 2: you're loving it, you're smiling, you're into it. Bit of Gunners,
2:04
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, everyone's in the kitchen having funded.
2:06
Speaker 2: But we got feedback that somebody didn't think it would
2:09
Speaker 2: work with their daughters with the Gunners singing Paradise City.
2:16
Speaker 2: Oh you're not into it. You've lost I've lost, I've
2:20
Speaker 2: completely lost year.
2:22
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I had to listen to it on
2:23
Speaker 3: Friday night in the kitchen.
2:25
Speaker 2: Did the kitchen get tidy? That's what I want to know.
2:27
Speaker 2: Did the kitchen get tidy?
2:29
Speaker 3: It did take a long time.
2:31
Speaker 2: We were dancing, We're having fun. The energy was great.
2:35
Speaker 2: I still stand by the fact that if you get
2:37
Speaker 2: music involved in the chores and everything that happens there,
2:40
Speaker 2: you're always going to have a better time.
2:42
Speaker 3: Look in your defense, you have listened to Disney Music
2:47
Speaker 3: Channel for about I don't know, twenty years.
2:50
Speaker 2: Part of your world the Little Mermaid, I mean high school.
2:54
Speaker 2: I've gone through so many Disney princess songs it's ridiculous.
2:57
Speaker 3: And I think it is time that you, you know,
3:00
Speaker 3: let your hair down a little bit, all right.
3:01
Speaker 2: So we got the feedback from somebody who said, my
3:04
Speaker 2: kids just would not tolerate guns and roses. They'd be
3:06
Speaker 2: out of the room and I'd be doing the kitchen
3:07
Speaker 2: on my own, which probably isn't going to be the
3:09
Speaker 2: worst thing in the world. But we also received some
3:11
Speaker 2: listener feedback. Somebody just had a challenging question for us,
3:16
Speaker 2: and I thought we'd answer that today.
3:18
Speaker 3: Christina is from the Hills District in Northwest Sydney and
3:22
Speaker 3: she has a tricky question for us.
3:24
Speaker 4: Okay, guys, I've got four kids ten, eight, six, and
3:27
Speaker 4: four and I just can't get them to do their chores.
3:29
Speaker 4: I'm really pulling my hair out.
3:31
Speaker 2: What have you been doing to try to get them
3:33
Speaker 2: to do their chores?
3:34
Speaker 4: So we've done rewards charts and pocket money incentives and
3:40
Speaker 4: makes peter out and lose interest.
3:43
Speaker 3: Christina, we've actually found the same thing in our family.
3:46
Speaker 3: We had a really awesome conversation with Alfie Cone on
3:49
Speaker 3: the podcast recently about this very thing and how rewards
3:54
Speaker 3: just undermine our kids' intrinsic motivation to do things.
3:57
Speaker 2: So we'll actually link to those podcasts episodes because Alfie,
4:01
Speaker 2: world famous author has written some incredib books, including Punished
4:04
Speaker 2: by Rewards. He actually talks about why we shouldn't be
4:08
Speaker 2: trying rewards charts to get kids to do their chores,
4:11
Speaker 2: so we'll link to that. We've obviously found the same
4:13
Speaker 2: thing in our family, which is why we don't do that.
4:15
Speaker 2: But you know what we have found does work really
4:18
Speaker 2: well is the chor chart.
4:20
Speaker 3: And we've tried lots of different ways of doing that
4:23
Speaker 3: short chart, haven't we, And some.
4:25
Speaker 2: Of it has been absolutely painful. But when you've got
4:29
Speaker 2: a chore chart that ticks a handful of boxes, it
4:33
Speaker 2: seems that that's going to be a more effective way
4:35
Speaker 2: to get chores done than offering bribes and rewards and
4:38
Speaker 2: all of the drama that's involved in trying to make
4:40
Speaker 2: that happen. I guess it's the same sort of thing
4:43
Speaker 2: with pocket money. We've got My very first or maybe
4:46
Speaker 2: my second podcast episode ever was about pocket money. We'll
4:50
Speaker 2: link to that as well in the show notes. But
4:51
Speaker 2: if you go all the way back through the archives
4:53
Speaker 2: to the very beginning, I've talked a lot about why
4:55
Speaker 2: we shouldn't be linking pocket money with chores.
4:58
Speaker 4: Now.
4:59
Speaker 2: Scott Paper wrote the boo Barefoot investor. He disagrees with me.
5:01
Speaker 2: He thinks that it's supposed to be linked very clearly
5:03
Speaker 2: that you get money for having done a good job.
5:06
Speaker 2: But for us, in our family, we found that if
5:09
Speaker 2: you're part of the family, you do chores because you've
5:10
Speaker 2: made the mess and now you're going to clean it up.
5:12
Speaker 2: You know, you've eaten the dinner, so now you're going
5:13
Speaker 2: to help clean it up, and we're not going to
5:14
Speaker 2: pay you for that.
5:15
Speaker 3: Well, I guess it only seems fair if you're going
5:17
Speaker 3: to pay the children to do the jobs. Can I
5:19
Speaker 3: get some money too?
5:20
Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind that. That'd be creative. I could get
5:23
Speaker 2: paid for mowing my own law and I wouldn't mind
5:25
Speaker 2: that at all. So so chor charts worked really well.
5:28
Speaker 2: And the other thing with chort charts, we had a
5:31
Speaker 2: conversation with our children. We sat down and had what
5:34
Speaker 2: we would call like a family meeting, and we said, guys,
5:37
Speaker 2: we've got to have a talk about chores. Nothing.
5:39
Speaker 3: We have those regularly.
5:41
Speaker 1: We do.
5:41
Speaker 2: We have around every week, not quite but almost every week,
5:45
Speaker 2: and we talk about chores. And we had this conversation,
5:47
Speaker 2: it's not working. What are we going to do? So
5:49
Speaker 2: one of the kids suggested, why don't we divide the
5:51
Speaker 2: house into sections and each person will just be responsible
5:54
Speaker 2: for their own section, And that worked really well for
5:57
Speaker 2: a while. We worked out what the tasks were in
5:59
Speaker 2: each section and they took care of that. And then
6:02
Speaker 2: one of the others came up with another idea as well.
6:06
Speaker 3: They wanted to rotate the chores. So, you know, one
6:08
Speaker 3: week they looked.
6:09
Speaker 2: After you have my section is so boring. I hate
6:12
Speaker 2: my section. I don't want to do this job. I
6:13
Speaker 2: want to do your job. So, yeah, they complain to me, the.
6:16
Speaker 3: Grass is always greener on the other side, even scrubbing
6:19
Speaker 3: the tool. It seems better than having to do whatever
6:20
Speaker 3: their job is.
6:21
Speaker 2: So rotating the chores based on the chor chart each
6:24
Speaker 2: section rather than each person had a chor chart and
6:27
Speaker 2: they would just rotate from section to section. That worked
6:29
Speaker 2: really well for a while as well.
6:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think the one that works best for
6:33
Speaker 3: us is actually the kids each have their own chor
6:36
Speaker 3: chart and it actually individually just lists the chores that
6:41
Speaker 3: they are required to do every day. And it's simple
6:45
Speaker 3: things like, you know, make your own bed and put
6:46
Speaker 3: your clothes away, and so it's got all of those
6:49
Speaker 3: everyday tasks as well as the jobs that they would
6:52
Speaker 3: need to do maybe once a week some of them,
6:54
Speaker 3: some of them are three times a week, and they
6:57
Speaker 3: can kind of visually see it in one space instead
7:00
Speaker 3: of having to see, Okay, well I'm doing this, but
7:02
Speaker 3: you know my sister's doing this, and yeah, it kind
7:05
Speaker 3: of uncomplicates it for them, and I think that that's
7:07
Speaker 3: the one that's really worked the best.
7:09
Speaker 2: You know, what we might do will link to the
7:12
Speaker 2: chorre chart that we've got for each of our kids
7:14
Speaker 2: in the show notes as well, so people who want
7:16
Speaker 2: to download it, you're going to need PowerPoint on your
7:18
Speaker 2: computer because we've designed in PowerPoint and there's lots of
7:20
Speaker 2: pretty boxes and lots of pretty colors. But the children
7:23
Speaker 2: have responded really, really well to that. As a general rule,
7:26
Speaker 2: it's not perfect, but it's been one of the best
7:29
Speaker 2: things that we've done. There's a couple of other things
7:31
Speaker 2: that we've done that I think will change the game
7:33
Speaker 2: for every family when it comes to chores, and a
7:35
Speaker 2: couple of principles that underlie getting the chores right. So
7:39
Speaker 2: that we can help Christine and everyone else with this challenge.
7:42
Speaker 3: Can we talk about that after the road.
7:43
Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcast.
7:46
Speaker 3: For a happier family, Try a Happy Families membership, because
7:50
Speaker 3: a happy family doesn't just happen.
7:52
Speaker 2: Details at happy families dot com dot au. It's the
7:56
Speaker 2: Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time poor parent
7:59
Speaker 2: who just wants answers. Now we're talking chores and how
8:02
Speaker 2: to get the kids to get stuff done. We've got
8:05
Speaker 2: a couple of absolute winners, things that invariably lead to success.
8:11
Speaker 3: My favorite is the ten minute tidy.
8:15
Speaker 2: So describe the ten minute tidy for the uninitiated. I
8:18
Speaker 2: love it as well. It's always a winner for our family.
8:20
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, not always, but ninety nine percent of the
8:22
Speaker 2: time it just works well.
8:24
Speaker 3: The great thing about the ten minute tidy is it
8:25
Speaker 3: has a limit. It has a time limit to it,
8:28
Speaker 3: and so the kids know they have ten minutes. And
8:30
Speaker 3: the way we've actually timed that ten minutes and it's
8:33
Speaker 3: you know, it's not true ten minutes.
8:35
Speaker 2: It's rough.
8:35
Speaker 3: It's a rough. It's three songs. So we line up
8:39
Speaker 3: our top three energizer bunny songs that we can listen
8:44
Speaker 3: to and we pump that music at full blast.
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Speaker 2: The neighbors hate it when we're doing our ten minute
8:50
Speaker 2: tighty because it's loud, and you know, every now and again,
8:53
Speaker 2: I get a bit sneaky. And because I used to
8:55
Speaker 2: be a radio and azer, I know how long a
8:56
Speaker 2: lot of the really good songs are, and so I'll
8:59
Speaker 2: be like, Amanda is not going to get done in
9:01
Speaker 2: ten minutes, so I'll put in like an eight minute song.
9:03
Speaker 3: You have done that once.
9:05
Speaker 2: It's just three songs, guys, but one of those songs
9:07
Speaker 2: goes for eight minutes. That guarantees we're going to get
9:09
Speaker 2: at least fifteen minutes of good quality tiding so and
9:13
Speaker 2: I think that highlights something else, and that is that music.
9:15
Speaker 2: I mean, we were talking about guns and Roses before.
9:18
Speaker 2: Maybe guns and Roses isn't for everybody, and to be honest,
9:21
Speaker 2: I'm not even that into them anymore. But what it
9:24
Speaker 2: does do is it provides a level of energy and
9:27
Speaker 2: it brings everyone together and it creates fun around the chores,
9:31
Speaker 2: and the chores get done because we're number one together,
9:34
Speaker 2: number two having fun, and number three we've got the music.
9:37
Speaker 2: So that's one of the strategies that we use that
9:40
Speaker 2: really works tremendously well.
9:42
Speaker 3: And my number two favorite is all in and the
9:46
Speaker 3: one thing I love about all in is that there's
9:48
Speaker 3: actually no time limit to it, and it always includes
9:51
Speaker 3: music because we put the music on and there's just
9:54
Speaker 3: an energy that comes with music. But all in means
9:57
Speaker 3: that everybody just chips in until the job's done. And
10:00
Speaker 3: most of the time all in is our dinner.
10:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've did it, very very rarely invoked the all
10:05
Speaker 2: in cry, except straight after dinner, and the kids just
10:09
Speaker 2: know we'll be having dinner or we having our evening conversation,
10:12
Speaker 2: and then I'll let everyone know, hey, guys, once dinner's done,
10:15
Speaker 2: it's all in. And there's a couple of kids that
10:17
Speaker 2: roll their eyes like boh, and then you know, as
10:19
Speaker 2: soon as dinner's over, at least two of them always
10:21
Speaker 2: have to go to the bathroom right then, at least
10:24
Speaker 2: at least two, But they always sort of come back
10:26
Speaker 2: because there's music and there's conversation and it's all in
10:29
Speaker 2: and the tables cleared and the benches are clear, and
10:31
Speaker 2: the dishes are put away and all in again getting
10:35
Speaker 2: chores done. When you're doing it in a united way,
10:38
Speaker 2: when people are all together, it just makes it happen.
10:41
Speaker 2: It doesn't work for everybody all the time. You can't
10:43
Speaker 2: always do it like that. But when you can, my goodness,
10:46
Speaker 2: it makes a difference.
10:47
Speaker 3: And what I love about it the most is that
10:49
Speaker 3: even though every now and again, let's face it, lots
10:52
Speaker 3: of times there's one or two cranky children in the process,
10:55
Speaker 3: there are conversations that just happen as we work side
10:58
Speaker 3: by side that wouldn't have And if you put the
11:00
Speaker 3: kids to bed so that you could have some quiet
11:02
Speaker 3: time at the sink or just.
11:04
Speaker 2: Staring at the TV watching some Netflix or whatever, it
11:07
Speaker 2: might be.
11:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I've really loved it watching the kids kind
11:10
Speaker 3: of connect in that space as they work side by side.
11:15
Speaker 3: And I really love watching the kids connect.
11:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one of the challenges that we
11:20
Speaker 2: have is that the house gets messy through the week
11:22
Speaker 2: and even though we've got chores happening and we're trying
11:24
Speaker 2: to stay on top of it, by the time we
11:26
Speaker 2: get to the weekend, the reality is it's not at
11:28
Speaker 2: the standard that we wish that it could be. The
11:31
Speaker 2: weekend tidy is a really big deal, and we try
11:35
Speaker 2: to do it not too often, but it has to
11:37
Speaker 2: be done from time to time. But we've also sacrificed
11:41
Speaker 2: so many Saturday mornings to the God of clean surfaces,
11:44
Speaker 2: and I just don't really like worshiping it that altar,
11:47
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like Saturday is meant to
11:49
Speaker 2: be to the extent that it's possible. I know, not
11:51
Speaker 2: everyone can. Some people have got to work on Saturdays,
11:54
Speaker 2: and we've been there for years as well. But most
11:58
Speaker 2: of the time now we get Saturdays off, and yet
12:00
Speaker 2: we still find ourselves cleaning. So what have we done
12:03
Speaker 2: that you can think of that's actually been really great
12:05
Speaker 2: for getting the big clean done on the weekend.
12:07
Speaker 3: I think the most important thing when it comes to
12:10
Speaker 3: a weekend clean is having a time frame and telling
12:14
Speaker 3: the kids, all right, we've got a couple of really
12:16
Speaker 3: big jobs. If we all knuckle down and work together,
12:19
Speaker 3: we'll have this done in an hour, two hours, whatever
12:22
Speaker 3: it is that you deem is appropriate, and then you
12:25
Speaker 3: actually honor that. I think that's the most important. This
12:28
Speaker 3: is their kids. This is the kid's weekend as much
12:29
Speaker 3: as it's yours. And if we just get so narrow minded,
12:35
Speaker 3: and you know.
12:36
Speaker 2: I've got to finish the game. I've done the garage,
12:38
Speaker 2: I'm going to do the shed. And while you know,
12:40
Speaker 2: while I'm doing the shed, you're inside doing the bedrooms.
12:42
Speaker 2: And the scrubbing the walls, and all of a sudden
12:44
Speaker 2: it's become an entire spring clean. That's not fair.
12:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we lose the positive vibe that can come
12:50
Speaker 3: from working together. It becomes a real drain on everybody.
12:54
Speaker 3: And the reality is after a big week for all
12:56
Speaker 3: of us, we actually need some downtime. I think it's
12:59
Speaker 3: really important for us as families to recognize that. And
13:02
Speaker 3: so the things that have worked really well for us
13:04
Speaker 3: as we've given a time limit, we've told the kids
13:07
Speaker 3: in advance.
13:07
Speaker 2: So they here are the chores we're doing in that time.
13:10
Speaker 2: And if we don't get it all done, we don't.
13:12
Speaker 2: But you've got to work honestly during that time.
13:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, And we don't wake them up with the list,
13:17
Speaker 3: so they know before they go to bed the night
13:19
Speaker 3: before that tomorrow morning, Mum and Dad are going to
13:21
Speaker 3: wake you up at this time. We're going to work
13:23
Speaker 3: hard and fast.
13:23
Speaker 2: We're all in the garden. We're going to pull the
13:25
Speaker 2: weeds for an hour and then we're going to go
13:26
Speaker 2: and have fun.
13:27
Speaker 3: And that's it. It's the fun at the other end.
13:29
Speaker 3: So whether it be you know, milkshakes for everybody or
13:33
Speaker 3: head down to the beach. I think that it's really
13:35
Speaker 3: important that we just give ourselves that time to rejuvenate.
13:39
Speaker 2: In spite of all of the ideas that we've just shared,
13:41
Speaker 2: all of the tips and tricks, it can still be
13:43
Speaker 2: tricky and sometimes you can't get chores happening together. Sometimes
13:48
Speaker 2: it's not convenient playing music. Sometimes the things that we've
13:52
Speaker 2: shared won't work. Sometimes even the chor chart doesn't work.
13:55
Speaker 2: And I think that there are three key principles that
13:58
Speaker 2: we always need to remember when it comes to chores. First, one,
14:01
Speaker 2: have a family meeting with the kids, like actually sit
14:04
Speaker 2: down and talk about it, work it out together, and
14:06
Speaker 2: explain what you expect, but then listen to them and
14:10
Speaker 2: explore their world and then empower them to come up
14:12
Speaker 2: with a solution.
14:13
Speaker 3: And I think that's key involving them.
14:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, the more involved the children are and putting together
14:17
Speaker 2: the chore charts or the chores lists or the plans
14:20
Speaker 2: for chores, the more likely it is that they'll stick.
14:23
Speaker 2: The second critical thing consistency. So we've built chor charts
14:29
Speaker 2: over the years, but if we don't stay on it
14:32
Speaker 2: on a daily and a weekly basis, it kind of
14:36
Speaker 2: falls in a heap, right, Yeah, And two weeks ago
14:39
Speaker 2: and by and we're like, nobody's cleaned the toilet, what's
14:41
Speaker 2: going on? Oh?
14:43
Speaker 3: Can I guess what number three is?
14:44
Speaker 4: Then?
14:44
Speaker 2: Sure?
14:45
Speaker 1: Is it?
14:45
Speaker 3: Accountability?
14:47
Speaker 2: Well, accountability and consistency are kind of the same thing. Yeah,
14:50
Speaker 2: I'm saying, be consistent in your expectation and be consistent
14:54
Speaker 2: in keeping the kids accountable, because if you don't do that, yeah,
14:57
Speaker 2: you're on the right line. The other thing I was
15:00
Speaker 2: going to say for number three, though, is make sure
15:01
Speaker 2: that the tasks are developmentally appropriate, because there's no point
15:05
Speaker 2: asking the six year old one pack the dishwasher if
15:09
Speaker 2: she can't reach into the cupboard where the cups go
15:11
Speaker 2: because it's up too high and she's going to have
15:13
Speaker 2: to climb on the bench and there's a chance that
15:14
Speaker 2: she's going to fall and break everything, and you know
15:17
Speaker 2: they'll be blood or anything. We want to make sure
15:19
Speaker 2: that the tasks that we're giving the children are developmentally appropriate.
15:22
Speaker 3: But the six year old actually loves scrubbing.
15:25
Speaker 2: The toilet, who wouldn't have thought. And then of course
15:29
Speaker 2: we've got our ten year old who has a really
15:30
Speaker 2: big sook because she wants to mow the lawn, but
15:32
Speaker 2: she's actually not quite big enough to manage the lawnmower
15:35
Speaker 2: at this point, and so the thirteen year old and
15:36
Speaker 2: he's like, that's my job.
15:38
Speaker 3: So she's never actually pushed the lawnmower in ash.
15:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, so chores are a bit of a challenge. But Christina,
15:44
Speaker 2: we hope that that's been really helpful. We really hope
15:46
Speaker 2: that you enjoy the podcast and they get loads out
15:48
Speaker 2: of it. If you do, could you please jump onto
15:50
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts and leave a rating and review so that
15:53
Speaker 2: everyone else can find out about the podcast and we
15:54
Speaker 2: can spread the wood and help everyone to make their
15:56
Speaker 2: families happier. We really appreciate the good work done by
15:59
Speaker 2: Justin Rulan from Bridge Media who produces the podcast, and
16:01
Speaker 2: our executive producer is Craig Bruce. If you'd like more
16:04
Speaker 2: information about how to make your families happier flourishing, all
16:08
Speaker 2: you need to do is jump onto the Happy Famili's
16:10
Speaker 2: website look up everything that you can find about the
16:13
Speaker 2: Happy Families memberships. We think you'll find them amazing. The
16:16
Speaker 2: details or at happy families dot com dot au