Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Jay Shetty Talks Healing, Purpose, Forgiveness, Grace + More

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INTERVIEW: Jay Shetty Talks Healing, Purpose, Forgiveness, Grace + More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. Breakfast Club Morning,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Everybody's DJ n V. Charlamagne the Guy. We are the
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: my guy. He's an author, New York Time best selling author.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: He's an entrepreneur, he is a podcast host and now
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: he is a model as well. Ladies and gentlemen. Jay Shedding.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: By the way, Jay Sheddy is more than the podcast hosts.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: He has one of the top ten biggest podcasts in the.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: World's right, Okay, I think that's a very important to
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: note because everybody got a podcast. Okay.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Jay said he has one of the top ten biggest
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: podcasts in the world. Is the number five, I think.
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: I think so that's on Spotify. I think that's what
• 0:39
  Speaker 4: it came out as. But no, thank you for having me, guys.
• 0:41
  Speaker 4: I love being here with you, guys. I'm so grateful
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: to be back to your Congrats on the new studio.
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: And that's not new for you for your viewers, but
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: it's new for me being in in with you. But
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: thank you, Thank you, guys.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: You're one of the people always use as a model
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: man when people tell me, like, you know, how do
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I get started in podcasting or broadcasting always say you
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: got to be your true authentic self and you got
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: to provide something that you know maybe missing. And you
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: came with healing, you know, conversations about mental health, love,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: and you filled the very big void in the marketplace,
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: a void that I didn't even think people knew it
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: was missing.
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: Wow. That that means a lot coming from you. I
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: think whenever you're starting anything right, it's about finding the
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: space in the market and then figuring out what you
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: just said, that authentic part that you can match with
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: that space. And I think for me, I love all
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: the podcasts that exists in the world, and they serve
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: so many different purposes. There's so many that I listened to,
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: But for me, I was I remember I was at
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: this event and the event was called Building Meaningful Lives,
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: and Tom Brady was speaking at the event, and then
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: they were asking questions. And I don't know Tom Brady,
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: and you know, we don't know each other, we've never connected.
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: But I saw a lot of questions being asked to him,
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  Speaker 4: and all the questions were about the rings and the
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: games and the sports, and I could tell that he
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: was trying to talk about meaningful things because the conference
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: was building meaningful lives. And again I don't know him,
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: so I've never checked this with him, but from my perspective,
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: I could. I felt my intuition suggested that he wanted
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: to go in a direction that he couldn't go in
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: because everyone just wanted him to talk about sports. And
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: I was like, Okay, I want to build the platform
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: where someone like him could go in the direction they
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: want to go in. That's like when you came on
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: the show and you need to come back, we need
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: to have you back on. You know, when you came on,
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: it was like, we could go in the direction that
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: you want to talk about that some people don't have
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: the platform to do that for, you know. So that's
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: where it came from.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: You know. We had a Kevin Gates up here.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: He's a rapper and he has a song called I
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: think it's called I Can Heal You, you know, and he's
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: talking about, you know the fact that he feels like
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: he can heal women, right, but just in general, do
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: you think you can heal people?
• 2:45
  Speaker 5: I can't heal people. I'm not that powerful.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: I don't think I have the power or the capacity
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: to heal people. But I believe the universe does. I
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: believe energy does. I believe frequency does. And I think
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: that all we're trying to do is introduce people to
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: all of these ideas, concepts, practices, habits, mindsets that they
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: can then implement. I think people taking on that power
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: is too much pressure. I think taking on that pressure
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: of I'm gonna heal you, I'm gonna heal people. Wow,
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  Speaker 4: I think I would crumble if I felt that way,
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: I would I would not last two seconds.
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: And so I have never felt that.
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: And I've always felt that I've been a vessel for
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: my teachers and mentors and guides. I feel that I've
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: been so invested in a lot of people will say
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: to me, like, Jay, you're so young, how did you
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: learn this? And I'll say, I just got lucky. I
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: had great mentors, great teachers, great guides, and I'm just
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: trying to share what I've learned through me. And yeah,
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  Speaker 4: I don't want I don't want the pressure of trying
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  Speaker 4: to be a savior, messiah or a cha.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: You can heal people do your experience though, because people,
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  Speaker 1: you know, I think a lot of times they feel
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  Speaker 1: like they're alone. And if you explain your story and
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: tell them how you got through your tough times or
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: whatever that you've been through. It can, like you said,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: give somebody a roadmap of what they can do. Absolutely,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: you know, for every situation that you try might not
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: work for somebody, you know, but it'll give them a
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: guide to maybe something that can put them on their healings.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: Absolutely. Absolutely, yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that,
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: but I feel like that is still so much on
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: that person. And I feel like that's what we've seen,
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: whether it's mental health, whether it's growth, whether it's personal development,
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: so much of the accountability and responsibility is on the
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: receiver of knowledge. My teachers would always give this beautiful example.
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: They'd say, because sometimes right I go to listen to
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: a talk, or you go listen to a podcast, and
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: the person who's teaching you is maybe not the best orator,
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: they're not the best communicator, they're not the person who's
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: coming at it with all the you know, gems and
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: everything else. And my teachers would say to me, if
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: you're sitting in a class like that, you may think
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: the speakers at a zero, but that means you need
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: to rise to a ten to extract greatness from them.
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: Whereas if your.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: Speakers at a ten, you get to coast at a
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  Speaker 4: zero and you may extract nothing from them because they
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: just entertained your mind. And so I think as a listener,
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: as a practitioner, we've got a is our game to
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: extract greatness from who we're listening to and implement in
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: our lives.
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  Speaker 5: If that makes sense?
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  Speaker 3: Does everybody know?
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  Speaker 2: I feel like everybody deserves healing, But does everybody deserve healing?
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: I would say that let's go around down this thought
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: experiment to answer that question. So I've been thinking a
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: lot about this. If we could simplify the purpose.
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  Speaker 5: Of life to be.
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  Speaker 4: To love and be loved, if we could agree that
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: we think that loving others and being loved by others
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: feels like a meaningful purpose in our lives.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 4: What's really interesting about that is that because of how
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: we've been loved growing up, we chase to do things
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: in order to be loved. So we start thinking, well,
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: in order for me to be loved, I need to
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: build a big business. I need to look a certain way.
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: I need to have a certain amount of followers, I
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: need to build a podcast, whatever it may be. So
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: we start doing lots of stuff in order to be loved,
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: because we think to love and be loved we need
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: to do big things. Then what ends up happening is
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: we end up in a space where we realize that
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  Speaker 4: doesn't lead to love. I'm not loved more because I
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: have more followers. I'm not loved more because I have
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: more money. I'm not loved more because I have more,
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: which then begs the question going to your earlier question,
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: we need to heal that idea. So I think everyone
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: deserves healing because everyone's been misled, whether it's by the system,
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: whether it's by society, whether it's about conditioning. So if
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: you look at the journey as to why everyone deserves healing,
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: it's because everyone started from a purer place, where everyone
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: started from a more naive place but got led down
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: a certain path that then requires them to have healing.
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: So I think everyone deserves healing. What do you think, gentlemen?
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  Speaker 5: No, no, no, think deeply I do.
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  Speaker 2: I just hear people say that you know, and I
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: think what I what I would tell folks is you know,
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  Speaker 2: that's like you said, that's really not a to you
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  Speaker 2: to decide. You know, if a person, regardless of what
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: they've been through. If they decide to go on their
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: healing journey, that's between them and their creator, and that's
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: between them and their their trauma.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Who am I to say that person doesn't deserve Yeah, yeah, I.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Guess the other question too, would be does everybody deserve
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: forgiveness and grace?
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: I mean, here's here's how I like to look at it.
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  Speaker 4: Let's let's pretend that we lived in a world. Actually,
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  Speaker 4: we don't need to pretend that is the world. Let's
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  Speaker 4: let's live in a world where there is no forgiveness
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  Speaker 4: and grace. Lord have mercy, right exactly. Let's let's see
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  Speaker 4: what what would that look like like. Let's do a
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  Speaker 4: thought experiment. You have a planet, there's no forgiveness, there's
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  Speaker 4: no grace. I would struggle to live in that world
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  Speaker 4: because I know I need forgiveness and grace not only
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: from myself but from the people around me. If my
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: wife wasn't forgiving and getting give me grace, that would
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: be a really tough relationship. If my mom didn't forgive
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: me and give me grace, that would be a tough relationship.
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  Speaker 4: If my boss, if you know, whatever else in my life,
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  Speaker 4: I think we'd actually all be living with more anxiety,
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: more stress, and we'd internalize that lack of forgiveness and
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: project it back onto ourselves and that would pervent you
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  Speaker 4: a cycle. By the way, that's kind of where we're
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: at right now. And I think a lot of our
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: lack of capacity for forgiveness and grace for others actually
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: comes because we don't give ourselves the benefit of the doubt, right,
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  Speaker 4: Like you know, amazing things can happen whereby we literally
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  Speaker 4: will you know, I think I'm sure you've heard this too,
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: where it's like I loved you until you did this.
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: I believed in you until you did this, And it's
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: almost like we don't give ourself a second chance. And
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: because we don't give ourselves a second chance, we don't
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: give others a second chance. And I believe that everyone
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: deserves forgiveness and grace if they are willing to choose
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: the path of reformation, if they're willing to go on
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: the path and do the work of saying I have
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: had some challenges, I've made some mistakes. I'm willing to grow.
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: That's but sometimes it's a chicken and egg situation because
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: sometimes for someone to have that reaction, they need to
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: feel that there is an opportunity for forgiveness and grace.
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: So often people are so scared that people won't forgive
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: them that they don't want to admit it. Right, Let's
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: take a very basic example, like you know someone's let's
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: take something that I think you know, someone's cheated on
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: their partner. Not not an ideal situation, not a great thing.
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: Do we just let that person get away with it?
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: Of course not. But partly that person may be scared
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: of sharing it because they're scared they won't be forgiveness
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: and grace that's true now, or scared to lose or
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: scared to lose now they've made a mistake and they
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: should be held accountable regardless because if they were in
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: a committed relationship. But it's this chicken and egg situation
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: of like what comes first? And I don't know the
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: answer to that because it requires so much from the
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: person who's been hurt, and it's sad because you've already
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: been hurt and now more is required of you. A
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: lot of people feel that way, that they're the one
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: who's been high, but they've going to be the bigger person.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a lot of times with forgiveness sometimes
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: it's why the person asks for forgiveness, so why the
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: person is sorry. Right. So, like you said in the
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: cheating situation, right, it's quick and easy for a person
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: to say, Okay, I'm sorry because they got caught. You know.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Same thing with somebody when they say something wild online. Right,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: the first reason they want to apologize really is they
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: want things to get back to normal or are they
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: really sorry? Did they really understand what they did? It
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: hurts somebody, And I think that's the problem when it
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: comes to forgiving somebody. Right, it's easy to say I
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: forgive you. You slap me in my face, and I say, okay,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: I forgive you, But no, I don't, not until we
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: have the conversation and why you slap me in the face,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: why you said what you said, how do you affect me,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: and then we can get to that path. But I
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: think a lot of times it's easy for people to
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: say I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do it. I
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: went to rehabits over right, and the world is supposed
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: to open back up. But if you can't explain to
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: me why you did what you did and assure me
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: why it can't happen again, I can never forgive you,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: and people be like, we'll forgive you means this, that
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: and the other. No, I don't think about you, but
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: that's that's my reason of feeling that way.
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: That's yeah, that's the best. I fully agree with everything
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: you just said. That's that's that's what's missing is you
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: just you said something so subtle and so passively. I
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: want to highlight for everyone because I'm like, that is
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: It's like we want to say sorry often because we
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: want things to go back to normal correct and that
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: that is the mistake, Like that isn't worthy of forgiveness,
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: and we need to go deeper than that.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: You just sat down with First Lady Michelle Obama. Conversation
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: was everywhere right, and she expressed how terrified she was
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: about this election year. What was it like hearing that
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: from her? And how do you process that? Does that
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: give you anxiety when.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: You hear it?
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's an interesting thought process because I can't vote
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: in this country. I moved here eight years ago. I
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: have a green card, but I don't you know, I
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: don't have voting rights, and I moved here the year
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: Trump became president in twenty six and so I've had
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: an interesting education in the United States, and I haven't.
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: You know, I didn't grow up learning American history or
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: American politics, so I'm also very uneducated in that space. Specifically,
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: I think for me, I look at most things as
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: things I can and can't control. And when I think
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: about things that make me anxious on a global scale,
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: I often ask myself what is the root of that
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: anxiety in my community? So if I'm seeing whether it's ignorance,
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: whether it's a lack of understanding, whether it's a lack
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: of curiosity, openness, compassion on a global scale, I'm asking myself,
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: where does that exist within me and my friends and
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: my society, and how do I start impacting that because
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: that I can control. And so I've been practicing that
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: for a long time because I feel that there's a
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: lot of things that give me anxiety, Like there's a
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: lot of things that can stress me out. There's something
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: new in the news every day that can do that.
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: But for me, what's really interesting is saying, okay, where
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: is Like I read this beautiful quote from f Scott
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: Fitzgerald a few years back, and it's beautiful and he
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: said that I don't have my phone.
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: Others i'd read it right, but type in type in.
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: The type in two opposites and f Scott Fitzgerald or
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: posing ideas correct, but look for the full quote because
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: they only quote half of it sometimes and it's so,
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: and read a longer version of that quest.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: See the test of a first rate the ability the
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: whole tool posing sides in mind at the same time
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: and still retain the ability to function. One should, for example,
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: be able to see that things are hopeless, yet be
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: determined to make them otherwise.
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: That I love that right, like to be able to
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: hold this is I think the biggest challenge we're facing
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: in the human mind is that we're not able in
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: our microworld and in a macro world to be able
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: to hold two opposing ideas at the same time still
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: retain the ability to function.
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: So, as F.
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: Scott Fitzgerald said, I should be able to see that
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: everything seems hopeless, yet be determined to make them otherwise.
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: That to me is where I like to live and
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: where I like to function. Is that how can I
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: accept that things are beyond my control? I'm not powerful
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: enough yet control what I can try to do, and
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: so I kind of look at ignorance in my own
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: community and my own friends group, in our WhatsApp chats,
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: in our tech threads, like where is that ignorance? Where
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: is that you know? Where are the missing links? And
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: how can I start to impact and influence my friends
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: to be more open minded, to be more curious, to
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: be better learners. And myself, by the way too, to
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: question where I'm easy quick to shut people down, Like
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: I've noticed that so much in me recently, Like if
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: I'm judging someone, I've really been asking myself, can I
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: look for that quality of me? Because I really believe
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: that the reason I'm judging it and I'm so triggered
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: by it is because I know it's inside myself, and
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: my judgment is just a reflexion of me not introspecting enough.
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: So to me, I try and bring down global events
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: into the personal and intimate, because otherwise it's so chaotic
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: and so hard to deal with.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: I believe some people's judgment is a reflection of the masses, right,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: And that's my biggest thing I have with social media,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: And sometimes when people talk about their healing journey or
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: some of the things that they do, I think they
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: look for out actual without actually doing the necessary work.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: So somebody might see Charlemagne and he's evolved, and he'll
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: explain the ways that he evolved, and somebody might jump
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: on it because they've seen it work for Charlemagne, but
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: it won't work for them because it's not in their heart,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I think a lot of times,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: with social media and what you said about the masses,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: I think people follow a fake way of doing it
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: to pray for healing instead of trying to find their
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: own journey. And I think that's the difficult part. And
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I try to tell people and I think, you know,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: with some of the things that you're doing, you trying
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: to find your own healing journey. Yes, you know. You
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: give him example with George Charlomagne gives an example of his.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I give an example of mine. But a lot of
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: times people will try to followed that and it doesn't
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: open up their own mind to some of their other thoughts.
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, that's so powerful. And I think the beautiful
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: thing about anyone who has gone on a healing journey
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: realizes how unique yet similar it is. Like if we
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: sat down and we talked about healing journeys, all three
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: of us, we'd find so many similarities, yet so many differences.
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: And that's the beauty of it that when you go
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: down that path. And yeah, I would encourage everyone to
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: not try and imitate. It's almost like, you know, a
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: few years ago, people's morning routines became really popular, and
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: all of a sudden, everyone's trying to do the Einstein
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: morning routine or whatever it may be. And it's like,
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: you're not going to become that person by doing their
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: morning routine. That's a part of who they are. But
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: what you're saying is that there's an essence, there's a
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: heart there that you're totally missing out on. So yeah,
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: I fully agree you can't. You can't imitate someone's morning
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: routine and suddenly become them.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: I like what you said too, can you can you
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: really find truth in this world of extremes because it
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: feels like everybody got to pick a side. Yeah, and
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: like we talked about it, what you came in, Like
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I could sit down and have a conversation with somebody
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: and people will look at that as an endorsement. No,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: we're just having a conversation because there's got to be
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: some nuance in all of this. Right that I got
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: a spiritual you know, leader one of my spiritual teachers
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: of Lutha YadA, she always says, she says, there's no
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: such thing as right and wrong in humans.
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: Do you do you believe that there's no such thing
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: as right and wrong? I mean you could see that
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: from the I guess it depends what level of I
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: guess it depends on what level of humanity you're talking about. Right,
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: they're legal, there's right and wrong. I guess morally there's
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: right and wrong, and then I guess thought wise or
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: perception wise. Then you get into muddy a territory because
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: then what is right and wrong? Because everyone's looking at everything.
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: If you just think about the multiple lenses that we've had,
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: it's like if you imagine that every life experience you've
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: had is a crack in the mirror. Right the parents
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: you had, the town you grew up in, the friends
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: you had growing up, the school you went to, your
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: first job, your first love, your first heartbreak. Imagine all
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: of those are cracks in a mirror. Now every time
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: you're looking in that mirror, imagine how many different reflections
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: and distorted reflections you're seeing. We're basically dealing with that
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: with eight billion people. So the amount of distortion in perception, reflection,
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: perspective is so variegated that how can any one of
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: us know what the truth is or what right and
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: wrong is because it's there's the options unlimited, like you
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: would need an algorithm, and even an algorithm couldn't compute
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: the depths of the trauma, the impact the experience like
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: it would require it would require a God's brain in
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: order to formulate and contextualize all of those experiences. So
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: I do think there was this I don't know where
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: it's from, but I remember seeing it in Cobra Kai,
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: of all places. But there was this great line that said,
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: there's there's always three sides to every story, yours, mine
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: and the truth. But I think the challenge is that
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: the truth part is we're not.
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: Even the subjective, it's objective.
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: But I don't even think what you just said rightly
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: is in order. Then if we're saying there's three sides
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: to every story, but we're only living on one side,
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: the only way to get to the middle ground. And
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: by the way, the middle ground has been a philosophical standpoint.
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: The Buddhoo talked about the middle path. We talk about
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: living a balanced life. We talk about finding the core,
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: the heart, the center. If you look at all philosophical,
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: spiritual well being traditions, it's always about the middle, the heart,
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: the center of the core. Yet the only way to
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: get to the middle is by looking at both extremes.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: You're not going to get to the middle by being
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: on any of one side of any thought. And so
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: I think, what you just said, Charlemagne, and what you
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: do here so beautifully is I love. And I try
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: and do this too, to have conversations that people don't
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: expect me to have with people that people maybe confused
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: as to why I'm sitting down with them, in order
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: to understand the cracks the mirror, That's what I'm fascinated.
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: But I'm fascinated by the cracks on the mirror because
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: how they got to how they think is even more
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: important to me than how they think. Because if we
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: understand how someone got to how they think, we can
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: help save the future, because we can make sure that
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: their experiences are slightly more variegated, diverse, supported, in order
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: to have healthier ideas in the future.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Do you do you feel like most people are just performing?
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: What do you mean by that?
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Because when sometimes when you sit down with these people,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: you realize like, oh, this is this is just an act,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: like you know what I mean, You're just doing this
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: because of what can what can come come from it.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: So it's like when I'm having a conversation with somebody,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I try to remove all of that and get to
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: what you just said, and you usually get to that
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: by seeing how a person got to where they are.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: And then when you that's when you realize like, oh,
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: this isn't.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's hard right now, Like there's this
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: meme on social media that I love and it's all
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: text and it says society says, be yourself and then
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: society says, no, not like that, and it's brilliant, right,
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: And so what I've realized is society says, I want
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: to know what you feel, and then it goes but
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: if you let me tell you that again, society says,
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: I want to know what you feel. But then if
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: what you feel doesn't make me feel good, then I
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: don't know what you want to feel. And so I
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: think people have actually kind of regressed into performing because
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: they're so scared of being judged for every word they say.
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: And then there's the side of people performing because they
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: think that they have to abide by certain rules or
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: they have to you know, sit with a particular thought
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: process or whatever it may be. But I think in
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: our attempt to be more authentic as a society, we've
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: actually started blocking authenticity because if your authenticity doesn't make
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: me feel good, then I'm rejecting it. And that doesn't
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: actually make make sense, you know, it doesn't. You can't
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: if you say something that I don't like, I can
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: say I don't like it, but I can't tell you
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: that that's wrong.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, don't say I'm real until I say something that
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: you don't agree with. Yeah, exactly, But it can't be
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: that way. I should still be real, Like, come on.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: But is it all an interpretation?
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Like you've been married eight years. Sometimes when you get
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: into an argument or you know, a disagreement with your wife,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: it might not be right or wrong. It might be
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: how you interpret things right. So you know, if your
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: wife says something, you'd be like you had an attitude
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: and it makes you upset, But really she didn't have
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: an attitude. So I think a lot of what we
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: see in this world is interpretation.
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: I try and and That's why I think the self
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: interpretation point is so much more important. I think we
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: get so lost in social media. We've mentioned it here,
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: and by the way, obviously I love social media. Without it,
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't even have had a career. I wouldn't be
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: here today. So I'm very grateful to social media. But
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: the point is that I think we get so lost
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: in other people's marriages, other people's careers, other people's failures,
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: that we don't make the time to reflect on our own.
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: So when I find myself being agitated with my wife
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: or being irritated with my wife, I look back as
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: to why did I behave that way, And nineteen percent
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: of the time, it's because I have a certain fear.
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: I have a certain insecurity. Sometimes my fear is actually
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: a positive fear of Let's say my wife asks me
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: a really important question, but I'm about to walk into
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: this interview. My agitated, non mindful response is going to
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: be I've got time for this right now, talk to
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: you later, right, which is the worst thing to say.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: But I've been there. I'm just gonna put my hand down.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: I've done that right, Like I've said, Hey, I haven't
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: got time for this.
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: Right now, I.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Would never say that, boy, you got more. I ain't
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: got time for that.
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: I said that in the past, right I've said that before,
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: and I feel terrible for saying that now when I
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: look back at that, and I've reflected on that, and
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: my wife's very forgiving and kind, and so she tolerates
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: me deeply and I appreciate her for that. But when
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: I reflect on having made that mistake, the real reason
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: is twofold one is it's not that I haven't got
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: time for it. I actually really care about her and
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: I want to give her a really good answer. I
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: just am scared that I won't be able to do
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: that in thirty seconds, and so now I'm just trying
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: to pass it off because I don't want to take
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: on the fear. So there's actually a well intentioned thing there.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: It's not that I actually think I'm too busy, and
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: then sometimes I'm like, well, my life's more important. Like
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: I remember this time, my wife would come up to
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: me and say I've had a really bad day, and
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: I'd say, tell me about it. I've had a really
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: bad week, and I was using her pain.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: You're trumping her pain exactly.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: I was using her pain to validate my pain because
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: I haven't spent time validating my pain in private, because
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: I haven't taken that time to acknowledge and recognize that
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: I'm having a challenging week. I'm now using and taking
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: her moment of connecting with her partner to make it
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: about me. And so again, when I reflect on that,
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: why am I doing that? It's because I haven't taken
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: time for myself. And I think that's where I want
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: people to live more, because we could actually heal so
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: many of our daily irritations and agitations simply by going, God,
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: I'm scared, I'm being insecure and I'm not validating my
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: own pain.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: How many times do you? I mean, how often have
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: you broken your own eight rules of love?
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: Oh? Every day? Every day, man, every day.
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's you know, it goes back to
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: that how can I heal someone I'm still healing myself.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: And it goes to the reality of and I think
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: we all know this at this table. Everything in life
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: is a process, right, Like even if you took something
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: really tangible, like we say this person is rich, we
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: talk about them as if they can never lose it,
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: and that will always be theirs. That's actually not true.
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: People could lose all their money. We talk about someone
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: being famous, you could lose that. So in the same
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: way healing progress development, you.
• 25:44
  Speaker 5: Can lose it.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: And I think we've got so lost in that destination addiction,
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: the belief that you get to a point from which
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: there is no return. And I think that destination addiction
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: is really misleading in the wellness space because we feel like,
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: oh now, why healed?
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: And I think it.
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: Comes from this idea of if you think about it right.
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: Social media is full of before and off the pictures,
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: this where I used to be, look at where I
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: am now, right, And it's always like saying I used
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: to be in a bad place, now I'm in a
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: great place.
• 26:12
  Speaker 5: No process, no process.
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: And linear when the real life life is this every day. Sure,
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: it's just cyclical. And I think we've made our minds
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: feel that journey's are linear. It's like A to B,
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: like going from LA to New York or New York
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: to LA.
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: It's linear.
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: But we know that life is so much more cyclical,
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: and so yes, I've broken the eight Rules of Love
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: every day, every week of my life.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: One of the things you said, man that I think
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: is so important that I want people to really get
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: from this if they don't get nothing else from this conversation.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Is like, there's no manual for any of this. You're
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: not going to be the perfect husband, You're not going
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: to be the perfect father. I spend so much time
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: simply apologizing to my wife and apologizing to my kids
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: because I don't ever want them to think that I'm
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: trying to come off with some perfect human who never
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: gets anything wrong right.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: And I think that is that's very important to do.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: And just being present, like.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: When you're when you're when your wife calls you, your
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: child calls you, even if you in that moment you
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: weren't present. As soon as I'm done whatever I'm doing,
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: I'm so sorry that you know I had to do that,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: but I had to go do X, Y and Z
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: in that moment.
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I think I think the thing about the
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: point you just made, and I hope this is what
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: someone takes away from this as well, is I think
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: a lot of us in our minds when we do introspect,
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: we're quite heavy and harsh on ourselves. I think a
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: lot of people are walking around with a internal in
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: a critical voice, that is completely making them feel terrible.
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: And so when anyone says something externally, it's worse. And
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: I just want to remind people that you can't hate
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: yourself into change, Like you can't guilt yourself into growth.
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: You can't blame yourself into a breakthrough. When was the
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: last time you changed who you were because someone hated you?
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: Never?
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: When was the last time you I ported someone you
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: hate deeply? So if you're hating, blaming, guilty yourself, it
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: may get you started, but it won't get you there.
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: And so anyone who's giving themselves a hard time, I'm
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: not saying to give yourself an easy time, but that
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: in aer grace, that in a forgiveness is such an
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: important part of you actually becoming better. So you're not
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: doing it because you're trying to take it easy on yourself.
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: You're doing it because it's gonna let you get through
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: the hard times.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: The most important thing I think for a lot of
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: people is back to what you said, with forgiveness and grace, right,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: A lot of things that we do is learn behavior.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Why do people pop their children usually because they got
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: popped as a child, you know, Why do people talk
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: the way that they talk, usually because their parents talk
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: to them, or their parents are the same thing, or
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: they do that. But a lot of times when you're
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: in the moment, you don't see that. Right when my
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: dad told me, don't go out, don't do this, don't
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: do that, my first reaction was like, I hate them.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: My other friends can do it and I can't. But
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: now as a parent, it's the same thing. Now I
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: understand why he said what he said, but you always
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: pray that you get it before that family member. It's
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: this earth, you know what I mean. And I thank
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: God every day that my dad is still here, that
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: I didn't leave being mad at him. And you know,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: I try to explain more to my kids because I
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: never want them to feel that way, but I know
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: they must feel the same way when they be like
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: I can't go to my friend's house or sleep over.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: And I know they might be mad because their friends
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: do it. But that grace and forgiveness. We have to
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: understand that a lot of the stuff that we do
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: is learned behavior, even if it's not right. We have
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: to realize that a lot of the things that we
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: learned and we were taught were fucked up.
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's that famous quote you just reminded me of
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: that says, by the time you realize that your parents
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: are right, your kids are telling you that you're wrong.
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: And it's that awkward position that we end up in.
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: But you know what's really interesting about that.
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: I was talking to someone about this at dinner last night,
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: and there's this old story that I heard a while ago,
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: and it's always resonated with me, even with my own childhood,
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: not in particular, but in essence. So the story goes
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: that these two men were interviewed and one was an alcoholic,
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: the other one and never drunk alcohol, and they were brothers,
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: and they interviewed them and then they asked the one
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: who drank alcohol and was an alcoholic, he said, why
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: are you an alcoholic? He said, my dad was an alcoholic.
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: And then they asked the other brother, why don't you drink?
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: And he said, my dad was an alcoholic. And so
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: I think a lot of us got an education and
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: what not to do, but we ended up repeating it
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: instead of breaking the cycle. And I feel like in
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: my life I had to I got a great education
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: in a lot of my areas of life in what
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: not to do and who not to be, And I
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: took all those little notes down, and I think that's
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: what's improved my life. So I think if we're constantly
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: waiting for the perfect example and the perfect space and
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: the perfect surroundings and the perfect aren't an uncle and
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: the perfect parent, it's like we may be waiting forever
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: because no one's perfect. So we almost have to make
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: a list of what not to do, but what not to.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: Do, but also how to.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: That's why that's why podcast like On Purpose is so important.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: That's why podcasts like you know, Debbie Brown Deeply Well
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: is so important because we learn how to, you know,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: break break a lot these cycles.
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: Are you wearing gap right now?
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: No? Not right now? Okay, I'm just because you saw that.
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: You saw that, that's why that's.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Just thought you was handsome.
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: I was like, all right, DJM. You know you know,
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: I wasn't expecting that from you. Thank you, man. I
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: appreciate you and your wife.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: The holiday holiday Gap campaign, yeah yeah, we.
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: We were just you know, when we got asked to
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: do that, it was like we couldn't believe it.
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: We're like, what is this?
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: You know, like we grew up watching the gap campaigns
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: like the holiday campaigns especially, and any I've said to
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: my wife, any time I get to do any work
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: with her is my favorite thing because I get to
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: hang with her all day. And so that shoot was fun.
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: They made it fun. The creative team was fantastic, Like
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: it was a good time. We walked out of there
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: having having had a great day. So it was a
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: lot of fun. And then it was it was surreal
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: because you know, yeah, definitely never been a model.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: So do you have a question yourself when you get
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: approached to do things like that, because you know, people think,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: for whatever, for whatever reason, what it is you do.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: Oh, you shouldn't have a campaign.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: You're supposed to be a guru, you know, do you
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: have a question yourself about Yeah?
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, I've I've had the challenges. I've had to sit
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: with that question so much. And here's what I've come
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: out with. One of the reasons I do it is
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: because I don't want to be the guru. I don't
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: want to be that. I'm a normal guy who likes
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: nice things, who is married, who's happily married, who who's
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: living in the normal world, who has businesses like everything.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: It's like, I just I want to be that because
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: I think that the you know, the putting anyone up
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: on a pedestal, that person will always let you down
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: because it's it's hard for anyone to live up to that,
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: and so I would rather take myself off of it
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: and normalize it and be good with that. And at
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: the same time, I think, I look at it and
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: I go, in my opinion, I'm hoping that someone's going
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: to see that and be reminded of wellness and be
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: reminded of well being from the perspective of like, oh yeah,
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: generally they do that thing. So I'm hoping that it's
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: actually helping us get the message out there more. And
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: maybe I'm wrong, but I also look at it as
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: things I enjoy doing and things I love doing with
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: my wife, and I live life in that way and
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: a lot of the opportunities come my way. One of
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: the things that I've really been working on, and this
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: is probably the most thoughtful answer I can give to this,
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: is I've realized that a lot of opportunities I give today,
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: a lot of opportunities I get today, they feel like
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: a high five to my sixteen year old self and
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: my twelve year old self and even my five year
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: old self and then there's the more evolved me of today.
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: And so I'm living these two lives, and I think
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: we all are living the life of what are inner
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: child desired and then are evolved today's self desires. And
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: I've just found that there are certain opportunities that fulfill
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: it for that inner child that I don't want to abandon,
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: because what I'm worried about is that if I abandon it,
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: there'll be some more biddenness, some more resentment that will develop,
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: that will grow in the future. And so I want
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: to make sure that I acknowledge the needs of that
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: in a child that maybe weren't met at that age
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: or that stage in my life. And so that's kind
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: of what I refer to a lot when I'm trying
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: to make these decisions.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: I don't have a problem with it, because you know,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: we always say stop making stupid people famous, So so
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: why not make the small ones if the small ones
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: can get the light on them.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Why not?
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Because when the amplifies that more people you know, come
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: in and pay attention. I want to ask you to
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: do you get pushed back from people who will watch
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: you sit down with a Michelle Obama or a Jada
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Pinkett smith Man.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: Why didn't you challenge them on this? Why didn't you
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: challenge them on that?
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't get pushed back for not challenging people
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: because I think the questions I ask are challenging in
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: a different way. But I think I'll get pushed back
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: because someone doesn't like that person. But what I've found
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: every single time is that when someone actually listens to
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: the episode or watches it on YouTube, if you look
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: at that common section, it is spectacular, like when someone's
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: actually taking out time out of the day to listen
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: for an hour or watch for an hour, and then
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: you see the comments section, you'll see people having complete
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: I had people reaching out about both those episodes, the
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: President Biden interview as well that we did earlier last year,
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: and the comments of people who actually listened to it.
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: And by the way, a lot of people were like, hey,
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: I don't agree with this person's politics. I'm actually on
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: completely on the other side. But I just want you
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: to know that listening to this interview was so enlightening
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: from a human perspective. Thank you for putting it out there.
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: And I respect that approach because I think that's why
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: I do the interview. I don't do the interview for
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: any other reason apart from us looking at the broken
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: mirror and looking back and saying, Okay, where can I
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: resonate with the humanity of this individual or where can
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: I relate to this person? So yeah, I think that's
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: generally the pushback. But the comments section. I encourage you
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: on those episodes to go look at the YouTube comment section.
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: It's phenomenal to read what people are getting.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, cause I think your conversation with Jada pin it's
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: smith the clips is what's set off to Jada Pink hatred.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: Not because of you, you know what I mean.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: But if you didn't watch the whole conversation and context
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: and you just saw clips.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she got a tech Yeah.
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And Jada's a dear friend for me, so it's yeah,
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: it's it's a tough one because I think any clip
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: about anyone.
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: I said, someone say this to me today.
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: Yesterday they said to me Jay, they meant me for
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: the first time, and they were like, Jay, you're so
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: much nicer in person. I didn't like you off a
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: few Instagram and I was like, fair enough, that's cool.
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: But it's so hard for me to be all of
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: myself in thirty seconds, and I'm trying my best. You're
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: trying your best, You'll try your best, but it's hard
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: for any of.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Us, Like they did not to like about you on
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Instagram with your wife. No, yeah, puppies looking your fate.
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: No, in the sense of I think he was just
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: like you know, I feel like you feel a bit
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: like whatever it was like whatever.
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: I don't even know what it was.
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: But I think all of us, if you judged any
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: of ourself at thirty second real, oh, I'm sure all
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: of us would agree, it's not who we are, you know. So,
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: and that's why I've start I do stuff with my
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: wife because I feel I'm most myself when I'm with
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: my wife because naturally it's the person I spend the
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: most time with. And so, but even even with all
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: of us, like, I've got to meet you guys in
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: person a few times now. We win Canned with iHeart On,
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: you know, for the festival last year together. And I
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: think when you've met people in person, that's the only
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: time you're going to feel like you've got to know them.
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: I don't think anyone under I feel like if someone
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: if someone okay, If someone follows me on Instagram, they
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: understand maybe ten percent of who I am. If they
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: listen to my podcast, they probably understand seventy five percent
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: of who I am because they're really dialing into who
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: I am. If they've read my books and my podcast,
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: they're probably like at that eighty nine percent. If they've
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: seen me live, there at that ninety five percent. And
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: then when someone's met me in person, it's one hundred percent.
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: And so I think it's all percentages. And I you know,
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: I hope that we all again going back to forgiveness
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: and grace. I hope that we can all give each
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: other a bit more benefit of the doubt because I
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: think it will go a long way for people.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: And you officiated been in j Lowe's wedding.
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that was a year and a half ago.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: You licensed to do that.
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: I had to do the online kind of you know.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: Did they I mean, why did they?
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: But I don't think you have to be in Georgia.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: I don't think you need to be licensed so that
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: I don't know the rules of that.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: I can't remember why did they pick you?
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: So I'd collaborated with Jen for a while, like we've
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: done a bunch of stuff together. Because she came on
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: the show a few years ago. We'd had a few
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: great offline conversations. I went and officiated weddings as part
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: of the launch of her last movie on her special
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: and it was just, you know, it just I was
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: really grateful for the opportunity. I was, you know, pinching
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: myself as well. And you know, for me, I love love,
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: like I'm a massive lover of love. And I'd sent
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: her the book as well, and I think that kind
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: of made it happen too. I'd sent the book and
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: when it was being written, and she appreciated it and
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: she wrote me a beautiful testimonial for it, and that
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: kind of led to the wedding as well. And it
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: was like, I felt like I was just trying to
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: make sure I didn't cry, Like I'm that kind of
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: guy who like ugly cries during a wedding and like
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: gets really soppy, and like, you know, she's walking down
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: the aisle, bend's there, he's tearing up. I'm like, don't cry, dude,
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: You're going to ruin this.
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: Do not cry.
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: And I just had to hold it together just to
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: get through because I was like, I'm about the ball.
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: So yeah, it was specially it's an amazing experience.
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: I know you probably got to runch. I got like
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: one more question for you.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: You say, language has created the word loneliness.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: They expressed the pain of being alone, and it.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Has created the word solitude, express the glory of being alone.
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: Could you could expound on that?
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a Paul Tillich quote. The writer Paul Tillich
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: said that, and to me, I extrapolated from his work
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: for my book because I was realizing that language and
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: the way we use words completely defines how we think
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: about things. So when you hear the word loneliness, you
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: think sadness, you think potentially depression, you think negativity. Of course,
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: solitude is spending time alone with yourself, but with strength,
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: with courage, as Paul Tillet says, glory. So what I've
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: realized is we've got to be so careful with the
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: language we use in our minds. Every single word is
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: a seed for either a weed or a flower, and
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: so every single word that you say is defining. So
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: if I keep saying I'm lonely, I'm lonely, I'm lonely,
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: that's going to impact how I feel but if I
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: say I'm in solitude all of a sudden, there's a
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: strength that comes with that. And so I just want
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: to encourage people to recognize that being alone doesn't have
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: to be a weakness. It can be a time of
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: strength and self awareness and personal growth. But it is
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: about the language that we use with ourselves. And so
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: I would ask everyone to this one activity. Think about
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: the one word that comes to your mind the moment
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: you wake up or the moment you go to sleep.
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: Make that word a word that you want it to be.
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: Don't let the word you go to sleep with, and
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: don't let the word you wake up with be a
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: word that makes you feel negative, unhealthy, or weak. Because
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: those studies show we have sixty to eighty thoughts per day,
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: and eighty percent of them are negative, and eighty percent
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: of them are repetitive, which means you're having the same
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: negative word or thought repeating. It's not like we're having
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: lots of different thoughts. It's the same thought. Now, you
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: can't control sixty to eighty thousand thoughts, but you can
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: control two thoughts of the day. So just master the
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: first door of the day and the last thought of
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: the day, and make it a thought and a word
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: that you want.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: It to be. I wonder what when that study was done.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: I wonder was it before social media after because I
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: feel like with social media is probably trippled it.
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I probably read it that.
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: That's that probably I've read in the last three to
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: four years. So I guess while social media is around.
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean now it could have totally tripled.
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: But it's interesting because it's the same thought often.
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: Right, It's a lot of time we keep saying the
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: same thing. I'm so tired, I'm so tired that thought
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: could life last a year? Or like, oh god, I'm
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: so scared at work, I'm so anxious, that could last
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: a year?
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: So oh, one more thing?
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, man, is there anything Jay Shady hates? Ooh ooh
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: that is that's a great question. I need to give
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: a good answer for that. He think about that.
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: By dint of the answer I was going to give,
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: I have to I can't. So the answer is I
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: don't because I think hate personally, collectively, individually doesn't lead
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: to greatness. I've never seen hate lead to greatness. I've
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: never seen hate lead to purpose. I've never seen hate
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: lead to a positive outcome, and so I think hating
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: anything is setting yourself up to never see the greatness
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: to goodness in it, and so I'd prefer not to
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: hate anything.
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: What about the Notebook.
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: I don't hate the Notebook, but I have heard I
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: have thoughts about the Notebook. I don't hate the number.
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: I find it hilarious as to how many. And I was,
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: like I said, I'm a hopeless romantic. I've been like
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: that my whole life because I grew up watching Hollywood
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: movies thinking that that's how I was meant to fall
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: in love. I was that person who felt for that.
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: And now I've read about something that they call Disney
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: Princess syndrome, where people walk around like feeling like they're
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: going to be saved by their partner, Like you're gonna
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: have a night in shining armor, Who's going to come
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: in and rescue you. I think there's Disney Prince syndrome
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: as well, were we want to go and save someone
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: and we want to be the be all and end
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: all of everything. So the Notebook just has some really
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: questionable lines where like Ryan Gosling's character says to Regie
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: mccadam's character, He'll say things like, oh, you know, I
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: could be anything you want me to be. I'll be anything, right,
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: we've heard that. But then the other thing is she's
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: on a Ferrist wheel. Is thats called ferrist wheel, right,
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: that's what you call it, ferrest wheel. I have to
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: check my British and American, but yeah, she's on the
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: Ferrist wheel. He's hanging off the Ferrist wheel. And he goes,
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: if you don't go on a date with me, I
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: will fall, like I'll let go. That's really unhealthy, Like
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: that is like saying to someone I'm I'm going to
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: commit if you don't go out with me and those
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: and we think it's a movie. It doesn't matter. I
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: know people who've heard that from people. I've had people
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: who've stalk I know people who've stalked people who've had
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: people chase them down, who've said things like that to people.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: So I didn't kill myself, you leave me exactly.
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: So I think we've got to be careful about these
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: ideas if you're watching his entertainment.
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: It was really funny.
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: I was talking to someone the other day and they
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: were like, They're like, I didn't sleep so well, and
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: I was like, what did you watch last night and
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: they went an American nightmare, and I was.
• 44:22
  Speaker 5: Like, yeah, obviously, what do you expect?
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: So whenever anyone tells me they wake up with anxiety,
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: the first question I says, what did you watch last night?
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: Because that is going to tell me what was in
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: your brain? So yeah, I don't hate the number.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: You think it's a horror movie though, it will make.
• 44:37
  Speaker 5: Your life into a horror movie for sure.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Well, j Sheddy, ladies and gentlemen, where can they follow you? Jay?
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: Come and check out the podcast On Purpose. It's where
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: I'm pouring my heart and soul and you know, excited
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: to share so many more amazing, maybe thought provoking, maybe
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: even pushing you slightly conversations to come and join us
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: at On Purpose.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: And his latest book was Eight Rules of Love that
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: came out last year, How to Find It, Keep It
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: and let it Go?
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: You got a new book coming or no, no, no,
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: This was just I was just excited to be back
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: with you and hanging and actually, do you know what,
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: sometimes I love these conversations because I came here not
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: knowing where it was going to go, and then you
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: guys just guide it beautifully. So this was wonderful man,
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: thank you guys.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Jay Shaddy, It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning, wake that
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: ass up in the morning.
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: The Breakfast Club