Latest / Glovisor Podcast / Can Wishing Actually Change Your Brain? | Brownell Landrum [Ep 89]
Transcript
- Brownell Landrum: Joan of Arc had a vision, Gandhi had a mantra, Martin Luther King had a dream. What if today it's a wish backed by science? Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: Welcome to the Glovisor Podcast, where we explore business growth, communication, and personal development through real conversations with people who make an impact. Our guest explores the fascinating space where science, storytelling, business, and the mysteries of possibility collide. She's a TEDx speaker, explorer, change catalyst, and author of more than a dozen books, including The Art and Science of Wishing. Glovisor welcomes Brownell Landrum. Brownell Landrum: Hi, I'm so excited to be here. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: can't wait. All right, Brennel. So tell us a little bit more about what you do and who do you serve. Brownell Landrum: Yeah, well, as you said, I'm all those things. I'm an explorer, I'm a speaker, I'm a change catalyst. And what I'm doing now really is trying to change the world. So when you say, you know, what do you who do I serve and what am I trying to do? I really do believe that we are in a world that needs some uplifting. And that what's really fascinating about what I'm trying to do is that Collective wishing rituals have been a key driver of survival since the dawn of humanity. And so that's what I want to bring back. And one of the things that I have in one of my talks starts with Joan of Arc had a vision, Gandhi had a mantra, Martin Luther King had a dream. What if today it's a wish backed by science? Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: That's a great start. Brownell Landrum: Yeah. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: Now, you want to change the world. That's it? That's all you want to do? okay. Brownell Landrum: That's it. Just it. Yeah. Just just a few people just to lift us. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: tell us, how did you start this? What made you go down this path? Brownell Landrum: Yeah, you know, if you look at my background, I'm a storyteller. Like you said, I've written over a dozen books and some of them have been nonfiction and some of them have been fiction and This started while I was writing a fictional book. And I was writing about this magical world upstairs. They call it upstairs where wishes are sorted and granted, and it's kind of a magical realism type of world. And then one night I was listening to a lecture on neuroplasticity. Because I'm weird like that. I listen to science lectures when I can't sleep. And then it instead of putting me to sleep, it woke me up and I thought, wait a minute, is there science here? Is there science in wishing? And so that just led to I don't know if you've ever been this experienced but some kind of idea comes and then you just can't let it go because it just starts opening up this world and I started researching it and I found that every time you make a wish you engage over a dozen sciences. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: Dustin Sciences. Brownell Landrum: A d over a dozen. And actually, my book quotes over 70 different scientists and dozens of different kinds of sciences. So it starts getting really, really deep and interesting whether you're talking about neuroscience or biology or psychology, quantum physics. You know, it kind of covers so many different bases, motivation science. And like I just mentioned, the Martin Luther King, I did an analysis of his talk, and so many science. Are in that talk that people don't necessarily realize. Things like transportation theory and mirror neurons getting people to be in alignment, and words that he used that activated the parasympathetic nervous system that made us more creative and more optimistic. So many things like that. And so I just got really kind of geeked out over it and just got into all the sciences. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: how does this work? Here I am. I wish for X, whatever that is. Does whatever I'm wishing for makes a difference in my brain? Brownell Landrum: Yeah, it a lot of factors in how you're making the wish, what you're wishing for, how you repeat the wish, what are the triggers for the wish. let me back up a little bit and just talk about the difference between a wish, a prayer, and a goal. Because you've got a lot of business people listening, right? And so they're like, I'm a goal setter wishing, this is just crap, you know? And I will say that I love skeptics. So bring on the skeptics and bring on the skeptics questions. I even have a chapter in my book. called fun with skeptics because you know there's now there's a difference between a cynic and a skeptic. A cynic would just wants to put down everything. Those those don't add any value. And if you're running a company You don't really need the cynics in your company, right? But the skeptics are like, okay, prove it to me. Give me some facts. Let me look at the, you know, the data behind this and not just the woo-woo kind of thing. And I actually I have my own podcast, which I'm gonna have you on. And I had somebody on there and he's like, I'm a goal setter. This wishing is crap. I haven't wished in decades. And by the end of it, he was like, Okay, wow, you just like blew my mind and opened up some. much for me. So I'm hoping to do that with you and with your your listeners as well to show how much more powerful this is. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: well my question would be so if I set a goal, is that a wish? Brownell Landrum: No, not necessarily. That's what I was gonna say, the difference between a wish, a prayer, and a goal, right? Goal is usually something that you feel like is in your control. Like you could set the steps up. I'm going to lose 10 pounds, I'm going to get this degree, or I'm going to meet these business goals, right? And it's here it is, usually quantifiable, very defined, and usually in your control, right? And prayer is for those things outside your control. Right? You just there's nothing you can do, so you're gonna ask for help from whatever that source is. And wishes are kind of this beautiful middle ground that they allow for the things outside of your control and then they help reframe the things that you think are goals, but also can make them actually much more powerful, especially when now this is my little tagline for the business people we all know about our taglines. is, you know, how do you turn a wish into what I call a cosmic wish and that's by applying the science. So when you start learning about the sciences, then you can start making it stronger and making it more powerful. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: I make a wish that's sort of in the middle ground, what I can control or what I cannot control. Those it's right in the middle there. So once I do that, do I have to verbalize it or just the thought of it internally? Will that create the change? Brownell Landrum: Well, that there's a few factors on, like I said, how you make the wish, right? That that matter. usually wishes include anthropology. So we're talking science now, and the anthropology is there's a ritual. There's something that prompts you to make that wish. And ideally it's something that happened that you can do and that happens every day, right? So it's whether you're brushing your teeth or a certain time on the clock or something. so when you think back to very, very beginning of humanity, they wished together and they usually had some sort of ritual of first star of the night, maybe it's a dandelion, maybe it's you know, some other throwing a coin into a fountain, birthday candles, all those kinds of things. And that is part of who we are as humans, right? Is that ritual and keeping that memory and keeping that thing going. So, first, ideally, your wish started with a ritual, right? And that's something that you can repeat every day. So that's your sort of your first beginning. And then how do you make it stronger? You've done it every day. And when you do it every day, then you're triggering what's called neuroplasticity. You're training your brain. the solutions to that wish. So when you said, do I say it out loud, you don't necessarily have to. There is a section in my book about when do you share your wish and when do you not share your wish. And that is really important because we all know that there are sometimes naysayers in our lives and the wrong person at the wrong time can kind of diminish your impact of your wish. And that the the yaysayers at the right time can. And so when you say out loud, I out loud, definitely the auditorial part of your brain is more engaged when you say it out loud. I also try to say to people, use put put up your three fingers, which is the a W for wish, right? And that it also means that it ties into what I call the three Ps of cosmic wishing, which means it needs to be peaceful, positive, and purposeful. So if you can take the three fingers, you can put them maybe on your heart. And actually there's some in research that says if you look up while you're making your wish, it makes it stronger. So there's actually some interesting science about how what that does to your your polyvagal system and and then make your wish. And so if you can do that and make sure while you're making your wish that you are peaceful, you're positive, and you're purposeful, and also what you're wishing for meets those three P's, then you've just made your wish a whole lot stronger. Does that make sense or does that sound like woo-woo? Okay. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: No, no, no, it does make sense. And you know, but what's interesting is is that why some of the wishes come true and some don't? Because maybe during some of those I looked up and during the others I didn't. Couldn't that be w some of the elements that made that difference? Brownell Landrum: It can definitely increase your probability, right? And doing it every day, as I said, is neuroplasticity. It also triggers what's called the reticular activating system. Are you familiar with that? Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: No, no, please tell us more. Brownell Landrum: Yeah. It's you know we've all experienced this. We just didn't necessarily know the term of it. But all of a sudden, when we become aware of something, then our brain sees it everywhere. So maybe you're looking to buy a certain kind of car. And you're just really passionate about red jeeps all of a sudden, and then you see them everywhere. Well, when we make a wish and we make it with as many of those little, you know, anthropological, physiological techniques as we can, and we make it every day, then we teach our brain, okay, I'm going to look for the solution for that wish. So that's one of the things that some people say, wish as if it's already happened and just assume it's happened and live in that world. There's a little bit of a trickiness on that because you do need to see yourself making it happen, yet you also need to open up your brain to look for the solution to make it happen. So if you think it's already happened, your brain is not triggered to look for that answer. So, like, for example, maybe it is maybe it's a very solid business goal, and I'm gonna we're gonna have some fun and do some examples of how to turn that into a more powerful wish. and then so by doing that though, then you are starting to see, wait a minute, this is a way I can do that, this is a way I can do that, this can give me a solution. And you may even be something like you're driving down the street and it's a billboard and it triggers another idea, Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: one of the things that I want to talk about is that in the positive mindset in positive thinking world, they say think that it's already happened. It's already arrived. So that way it will happen. And you're saying that if it if you've already if if you already believe that it happened, then your brain won't look for the solution. Brownell Landrum: That's right. That's right. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: So how does it contradict that other mindset? Brownell Landrum: Yeah, yeah, no, that's a great question. well first you do kind of need to visualize as if as it's hap as if it's happened so that you can see it there because what you want to do is I call it a motive the motivation matrix, which is something I came up with. And you can imagine kind of a s four square grid and the left column is want, the right column is don't want, the top row is have, the bottom row is don't have. So you've got a the quadrants are you things you want that you have, things that you want that you don't have, things that you don't want that you have, and things that you don't want and don't have. And so when you are able to visualize your wish as if it's happened, you are going to see the things and be able to see the things that maybe that maybe the that even that quadrant of the things you don't want and don't have, you've got to be aware of because they could be blocking you from your wish. for example, you could say, I wish for this job, and then all of a sudden that job means you're gonna be working harder or you're going to have to travel more or you're going to be may have to move, then all of a sudden the want, don't want, don't have start rearing their ugly little head and go, all of a sudden you have to move or you have to work harder. So being able to visualize it as it's happened or as if it's happened does help you to see yourself in that place. And then you still have to go back to real life. And so when you're saying the people that say and manifesting assume it's happened and live every day as if it's happened, they're blocking that part of your brain, like you said. And there's actually some really kind of scary pitfalls in that world. Because and I have whole chapter on the problems and pitfalls with wishing, because some people make bad decisions, like, they think, well, I'm gonna buy that house because I'm what to prove to the universe, whatever that means, that I'm that it's happened, and then they're defaulting on mortgages for houses they couldn't afford. Right? So there's and there's some really interesting like percentage default rates for people that have that mindset. So let's bring it more practical and just say, yes, we need to be able to see ourselves, so we need to know what could happen, but also know that we've got to let our brain do what it does, which has helped us find those answers. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: do wishes have a specific limitation? And I I'm asking because I wish I would have Jeff Bezos' income. It so Brownell Landrum: Okay. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: so based on where I am today, does my wish have a limitation? Brownell Landrum: The best way to answer that is to know how to take away those limitations. And so that you can use the science to help you get there. and like for sometimes when somebody says, I wish for a million dollars, for example. not quite Jeff Bezos, he probably makes a million dollars a minute. Who knows what the math is? But maybe more than that, I can't even conceive of it. But let's just use a simple thing like a wish for a million dollars. it really, really helps to get and turn that what I would say into a cosmic wish is what is it that you want, not what you I mean, what is it you need, not versus what you want. For example, you say I want a million dollars or a wish for a million dollars. Why? Because the why gets you closer to what you want. And it for example, I had somebody on my show that said that they wish for a million dollars. And then I said, Well, why? What's your why? You know, because you look for your want versus your need, and your need is a much more compelling desire and motivation. And he said, Well, I want to use it to create this business that's going to make this huge difference in the world. And I really think that I could hire people and we could get all this community built and all this stuff without giving away his a particular idea. And I was like, that's so much more powerful because if you're wishing for a million dollars and you tell all these people I'm wishing for a million dollars, you're like, well, me too, me too, me too, me too. That's not gonna get a lot of support from others, right? But if you say I wish to build this business like who is it's like there are people probably listening going, I want that too. How can I help you do that? And so it could be much more than a million dollars because you're starting to get people that are wishing with you and helping you and want you to get there. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: could we go back to that night that you thought you were going to sleep at some boring science show? But instead, here Brownell Landrum: Ha ha Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: you are, you're amped up and you're ready to roll. Now what happens? Next day you're like, I have an idea, I can I can work on this and I want to share this with the world? Or or was it something that you know you kind of just wish for for a while until it worked for you? Brownell Landrum: I went right into the research. I mean, I just completely geeked out on the research. The first thing I did, which was really kind of a weird thing, and I was actually thinking about this last night, just on like, well, I need to bring that idea back and maybe write a blog article about it. Is I went on I I'm a big fan of Claude AI, so that's that's my go to. And I went on Claude and I said, Okay, imagine we're doing a round table with some senior thought leaders in the world. What would they have to say about wishing and the science in wishing? So you know, and it was like kind of like iconic, okay, if this is a leader that's big into Buddhism and another one that's a big into making money, making money, making money, and another one that's big into, you know, making sure you have a meaningful life, you know. And then I did this whole round table and they all went around and were like arguing with each other and It was so much fun. And it also just made me start realizing there's different points of view on this and what are the what's the framework I'm gonna set this whole thing up? And so I just went in and kind of did the research. So for example, that I talk about those three Ps and it's like, okay, what's the science in peaceful? What's the science in positive? What's the science in purposeful? And I even have a children's book that is talks about the three P's and talks about the science in there. And I have a little, there's a little girl near where I am who is pre-K and it's her favorite book and it's talking about the polyvagal system. Like you're teaching kids that there's a way to make these wishes. And it gives the kind of a before and after for peaceful and for positive and purposeful. And for example, the purposeful one is the before picture is of a you know, maybe eight or ten year old boy and he's standing in front of a mirror and he's got a towel around his neck and he says, I wish to be a superhero. And then they add these sciences of purposeful, and then he changes it, says, I wish to be a superhero so I can help others. And then the mirror all of a sudden is all these people that he can help and who can help him. And all of a sudden now you're building a community because you want to make your wish more purposeful. People are wanting to help you and you can help people. And that's a much bigger thing than just saying, I want to wish to be a superhero. So the same is true with a million dollars. Like what are you gonna do with it? And is it because your kid needs, you know, surgery? Is it because you want to build build a business with it that could help the world? Those are gonna matter. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: you want to change the world. You want to be a change catalyst. How Brownell Landrum: Yeah. Yes. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: I know you're doing the books. I know you're speaking. Brownell Landrum: Yes. Yes. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: are you doing anything else? Brownell Landrum: Yes. I'm doing a lot of stuff. I am first of all I have programs for companies to go in and transform their company. And I had an idea of that how to do it. And of course it has to be eight weeks because neuroplasticity takes eight weeks. I mean there's certain criteria. I've got a kind of a tracking system and gamification and prizes and all these kinds of fun things thrown in. And A woman that I met who read my book, she's just like obsessed, like this is the best thing she's ever read. She's just so into it. She's buying copies for all of her friends for Christmas, it's in her family and the whole thing. And she's like, You've got to bring this into my company. This company needs what you're doing. And so I'm putting it together and we're working on a proposal to take it into her company. So and she's not in management, which I think is really fun. Like if I'm somebody listening to this and I'm running a company and you have somebody that's in your company that cares so much about wanting to make it a better place to work and they're bringing ideas like this, those are your those are your gold and you better take care of them. Right. So I'm working on that and then I'm also working on a New Year's program that I'm way at the beginning where I what I want to do is start on the first Monday of the new year and do the eight weeks. And everybody wishing together for peaceful, positive, and purposeful 2027. And it will also include the tracking, and I'm going to have a weekly science class to add the sciences to it. So there's going to be adding psychology and what I call the three selves, whether you call that it ego, superego. There's motivation science, which is the wants and needs that we were just talking about. There's brain science of the things you can do to trick your brain to find solutions to your wishes. So doing all kinds of stuff. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: Well, now do you also do one on one coaching? Brownell Landrum: I don't really. I do have I am working on a class to teach others how to do you know to train people to take them through the eight week program. And so I do have that. I have I've I'm I think I'd rather build something that others that are better at coaching can do and take on forward in their worlds, if that makes sense. And so if somebody's like a business coach or an executive coach, Then I'd love to talk to them because if you've got a club company or client that you think needs the program that I'm describing, then let's work together so that I'm not trying to come in and take your client, you know, we can we can build something. I had somebody tell me, it's like, wow, you just gave a y a coach a year's worth of coaching, you know, with that one program. I was like, Yeah, that's what I would love to do, so we can multiply it better. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: If we can go back to neuroplasticity, it takes eight weeks, is what you said. Brownell Landrum: Yes. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: so can you explain to us what's happening in our brain and and why does it take eight weeks for that to come together? Brownell Landrum: Yeah. Well, first of all, some different science tells us some say s it could be four weeks, some say six. The more s solid research says eight weeks, so that's why I picked eight weeks to go a little more solid. I'm a big fan of Andrew Huberman. I quote him in my book if you ever watch his show, and of course he's a neuroscientist. And the daily repetition over eight weeks is something that there is some good research that says that that makes it more powerful. And again, it's starting to trigger certain parts of your brain. Neuroplasticity, for those who don't know, is just a way of saying our brains are plastic. They will change and evolve based on what we're focusing on. And so, like when I said peaceful, positive, and purposeful, here's a big one is a lot of us focus on what we don't want. I don't want this health problem, or I don't want this political movement, or I don't want this thing. And instead, that's not really our brain is going to focus on the negative. It's not going to move us forward. So if we make it positive, so I always say wish for and not against. So wishing for a peaceful, positive, and purposeful new year is going to make you look for things like, I feel peaceful today, or wow, that was something positive in my life. Or I think I found a new way to be even more purposeful, then your brain is going to be moving toward those positive places. That's the thing about the Martin Luther King speech is it was all beautiful and positive and purposeful and he painted a picture, all men are created equal and freedom is ringing and everybody is in alignment with this vision that he set. And that's what I think we need. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: once those eight weeks of repetition it hardens and that's just the pathways that from there on you don't have to worry as much. I guess it's just part of your brain. Is that how it works? Brownell Landrum: Well, that's a great question. It's really interesting as I've been doing this. You know, the eight weeks helps you if you start out with a wish and then you look at it throughout the whole eight weeks, right? and and the program I want to do for the New Year's is for the world as well as people can have an individual wish. What it does though, it makes you so much better at wishing that the whole process starts speeding up. so that you are more aware and you know how to recognize what your body wants. Like I'll give you an example. this this person that was on my show that says he's only into goals, he said, well my goal is to write another book. And I kind of shifted and I said, how about I wish to write a book? It was about customer service was what he wanted to write about. And I was like, I wish to write a book that would elevate customer service and make these people realize how important their jobs are. Not only for themselves, but the people that they serve and how we can make it a more fun and more purposeful career. See how much more energy is in that than I want to write a book? You know, my goal is to write Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: Sure. Brownell Landrum: a book. And same with things like lose ten pounds, you could say, My goal is to lose ten pounds. Your body's gonna go, I don't really wanna do that. That doesn't sound very fun to me. But if you change it, say, I wish to find foods that are healthy, that make me feel good, that I love to eat, and I wish to find activities that make my body feel good, that I want to do every day, that's a big shift. Does that make sense? Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: Yeah, that's a definite reframe right there. Brownell Landrum: That's right. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: Now, is there a takeaway that you want our listeners to remember our conversation? Brownell Landrum: If they can try to remember the peaceful, positive and purposeful. If that's all you do and if even if you're not making a wish for something specific, just wish to be peaceful, positive and purposeful, I think that that's going to elevate your energy and make your life a lot better in a very simple way. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: Now where can people connect with you, find out more about your work and continue this conversation? Brownell Landrum: Yeah. and especially if you want to join us for the new year, then definitely reach out and we'll see what we can do together. my name is Brownell Landrum. I'm the only Brownell Landrum in the world. my brand is Cosmic Wishes. So you've heard me say Cosmic Wishes. So cosmicwishes.com is my website and my brand. And then of course you can look at my brown alelandrum.com site as well. And I'm sure you're gonna put this in the notes and all that kind of good stuff. So I love to hear from people. And I also just if anything I said anybody says, I don't agree with that or she's crazy, I also want to hear from you because I always want to make this better and stronger. So I'm always looking for suggestions and ideas. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: Brownell thank you so much for joining us and we really appreciate your time and all the value you shared. Brownell Landrum: Thank you so much. I enjoyed it. Joe Abreu - GLOVISOR.com: You're welcome. Thanks everyone for listening. If this episode inspired you, make sure you share it with someone. And don't forget to follow the Glovisor Podcast for more conversations that make an impact. Till the next time.