Latest / INSIGHT TODAY / Why the Trump administration is clashing with AI-firm Anthropic

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Why the Trump administration is clashing with AI-firm Anthropic · INSIGHT TODAY

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This standoff between the artificial intelligence firm Anthropic and the
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: US government escalated sharply today. President Trump lashed out at
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: the company's leadership and directed all federal agencies to stop
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: using Anthropics products, and the Pentagon designated the company a
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: supply chain risk to national security. William Brangham joins us
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: now with more William.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: That's right, Jeff. Anthropic had long said that it didn't
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: want the US military using one of its programs for
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: any fully autonomous weapons systems or for any mass surveillance
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: of American citizens. Negotiations were ongoing this week, but the
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: president's order seems to have brought them to an end.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: The Pentagon's designation would bar any company that does business
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: with the Department of War from doing any commercial business
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: with Anthropic. For more on what this could mean, we
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: are joined by the University of Pennsylvania as Michael Horowitz.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: He previously worked in the Defense Department, where he wrote
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: the Pentagon's policy on artificial intelligence weapons systems. Michael Horwitz's
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: so good to have you here. I wonder if you
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  Speaker 2: could just give me your first your reaction to this
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: to the President saying we are wiping Anthropic completely out
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: of the federal government, and that any Pentagon contractor that
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: also has dealings with Anthropic has to stop those as well.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: What a day. I think that my initial thought, frankly,
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: is that that escalated quickly and that what seemed like
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  Speaker 3: a needless dispute between Anthropic in the Pentagon has hit
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  Speaker 3: crisis proportions. I say needless dispute because Anthropic was the
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: first of the frontier AI labs willing to work with
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: the Defense, willing to work with the Pentagon in a
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: classified environment, and all of the projects that the Pentagon
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: has asked Anthropic to work on, Anthropic was happy to
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: work on. This was a theoretical dispute about future possibilities
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: that between Anthropic and the Pentagon that is now really escalated.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: The President's order, in combination with the order from Secretary Hegseth,
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: could not just be devastating to the Pentagon's ability to
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: use Anthropics technology, but could be devastating to entthropics core business,
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  Speaker 3: depending on how it's interpreted by the markets and whether
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: Anthropic is able to get I'm not a lawyer, but
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: Anthropic is able to get a stay of the supply
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: chain designation.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: What does this do to America's ability to keep up
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  Speaker 2: a robust defense. I mean, Anthropic was already being used
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  Speaker 2: in many parts of the Pentagon according to reports. So
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  Speaker 2: now if the President is saying, get it all out
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  Speaker 2: of there, what does that do to our ability to
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: maintain a defense.
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  Speaker 3: Anthropics technology wasn't just being used in parts of the Pentagon,
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: it was being used in other parts of the government
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  Speaker 3: as well, So this could be pretty devastating in some ways.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: The only thing that mediates that is the six month,
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: a time period that appears both in the President's announcement
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: and in the supply chain designation by Secretary Hegseeth. If
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: you wanted to be an optimist about the chances that
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: the two sides will come to a deal, the optimistic
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: read would be in some ways this sets a six
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: month clock for negotiations between Anthropic and the government. But
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: that you had to squint real hard in some ways
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  Speaker 3: to see that to see that optimistic read and the
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: winner in some ways, if Anthropic in the Pentagon can't
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: make it work, frankly as China, because in a world
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  Speaker 3: where there's been intense AI competition between the United States
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  Speaker 3: and China, and that includes the military realm it should
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  Speaker 3: be all hands on deck for the American frontier AI
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  Speaker 3: labs to work with the Pentagon to improve American national defense,
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  Speaker 3: and Nthropic has been willing to and Thropic's been willing
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  Speaker 3: to do that over a six to nine month period.
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  Speaker 3: Then you would imagine some of the other AI labs
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: will try to cycle in and pick up some of
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: that business if nothing can be done. Note that Elon
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: Musk's XAI has already stepped up to the plate, and
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: you know said last week that they were willing to
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: now work in the classified environment with the Pentagon on
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: defense challenges.
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  Speaker 2: It's hard to imagine that there's not a whole slew
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  Speaker 2: of other companies willing to step into the breach there.
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  Speaker 2: I want to ask you about this request though, that
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  Speaker 2: Anthropic was making. They were saying, we're happy for you
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: to use our product except in these two instances. And
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  Speaker 2: I wonder what you make of that request. It's hard
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: to think of another defense contractor a Northrop Grumman saying
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: we'll sell you jets, but you can only use them
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  Speaker 2: in certain ways.
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean this was what this was what really
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  Speaker 3: escalated the dispute between Anthropic and the government was anthropics
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  Speaker 3: insistence that their technology not be used for mass surveillance
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  Speaker 3: or autonomous weapon systems, although to be clear, this did
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  Speaker 3: not bother the Pentagon Nanthropic when they signed the original
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: contract with Anthropic less than a year ago. This is
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: something that really escalated after Anthropic asked a Palenteer actually
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  Speaker 3: another leading technology company, about whether Anthropics technology was used
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: in the Maduro raid in January, where somewhere Palenteers made
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: even smart system technology was used and that platform incorporates
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: some of Anthropics technology, and so we were off to
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  Speaker 3: the races from there. In some ways, this is a
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: dispute about personalities and about the role of government masquerading
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: as a policy dispute, because in a normal atmosphere, Anthropic
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: would decide they want to work on some issues for
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  Speaker 3: the Pentagon but not other issues, and the Pentagon would
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: would hire Anthropic to work on some things but not
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: other things, would find other vendors. But this escalated to
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: the point where the Department was threatening to either compel
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: them with the Defense Production Act or impose that supply
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: chain designation.
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  Speaker 2: As you said, what a day. Michael Horowitz from the
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: University of Pennsylvania. Thank you.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: So much for being here, Thanks for having me.
• 6:22
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• 6:27
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